Speaker 1: We've had a peaceful transition of power in this country
Speaker 1: uninterrupted since The first president who really matters in this
Speaker 1: story is the one who loses John Adams. He loses
Speaker 1: in the House of Representatives to Thomas Jefferson, and he
Speaker 1: yields power in the democracy. One side must be willing
Speaker 1: to lose to accept the results. Those are the words
Speaker 1: of my friend and veteran political strategist Steve Schmidt when
Speaker 1: we spoke the day before the election. The lead up
Speaker 1: to this election has been like nothing we have ever seen.
Speaker 1: We've got a deeply divided country and incumbent who has
Speaker 1: bucked every possible norm out there, and for most of us,
Speaker 1: we've been pushed to the brink this year. Our schedules,
Speaker 1: our calendars, are daily lives are two d is totally changed.
Speaker 1: So we're trying to take a different approach with this podcast.
Speaker 1: We're going to dive into these issues. We're gonna get
Speaker 1: straight to the point, and then we're gonna leave it
Speaker 1: there and give you time to think. On this episode,
Speaker 1: we're going way back in time one week to make
Speaker 1: sense of this election and President Trump's loss. I'm Stephanie Rule,
Speaker 1: MSNBC anchor and NC News Senior correspondent, and this is
Speaker 1: Modern Rules, a podcast from NBC Think and I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: With so much at stake in this election, I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk to my friend Steve Schmidt. He spent the
Speaker 1: majority of his career working as a Republican strategist. He
Speaker 1: worked on key campaigns like President George W. Bush, California
Speaker 1: Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, and the late Arizona Senator John McCain. Now,
Speaker 1: Steve is the co founder of the Absolutely Savage Lincoln Project,
Speaker 1: which has been committed to defeating Donald Trump and really
Speaker 1: Republicans across the board. He's also the co host of
Speaker 1: the new political podcast Battleground with David Pluff and Steve Schmidt,
Speaker 1: also here on I Heart Radio. So for me, I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to Steve on the eve of this
Speaker 1: election and then right after it was called, and I
Speaker 1: wanted to know how he felt at this time about
Speaker 1: our country. When we look back at this cycle and
Speaker 1: it's going to be a mashup of events, what do
Speaker 1: you want people to remember about the way this election
Speaker 1: feels at this moment. This is the most important election
Speaker 1: since eighteen sixty four. Now we head into these final
Speaker 1: quiet uncertain hours were really, in my view, the fate
Speaker 1: of the nation hangs in the balance in a profound
Speaker 1: way because Trump is um is such a radical departure
Speaker 1: from Americanism. Take me to your heart and mind. Is
Speaker 1: this the eve of election Day? A completely surreal moment
Speaker 1: for you, someone who's basically voted his professional life to
Speaker 1: advancing a Republican agenda, and you are President Trump's de
Speaker 1: facto public enemy number one. So the Republican Party today
Speaker 1: is a vessel for the purposes of maintaining political power
Speaker 1: to advance self interest and the interests of the donor class.
Speaker 1: When you used to hear the importance of the rule
Speaker 1: of law and the truth, you now hear celebrations of
Speaker 1: the lie and of ignorance. It's an anti science, anti logic,
Speaker 1: anti reality, toxic ideology with authoritarian components and fascistic markers.
Speaker 1: It's a real threat to the country's future. That's what
Speaker 1: Trump is um is today, and that's what the Republican
Speaker 1: Party fully has become. And that's a great tragedy for
Speaker 1: the country. We try to fight this as hard as
Speaker 1: we could, and we did everything that we knew to do,
Speaker 1: you know, to stand up and try to oppose Trump
Speaker 1: and Trump is um and put a narrative around it.
Speaker 1: But no, it doesn't matter in victory or defeat. Trump
Speaker 1: is Um isn't going away. We have a status authoritarian
Speaker 1: ish movement that has rooted itself like a noxious weed,
Speaker 1: like an invasive species in the American politics, and millions
Speaker 1: of Americans are down with that. The first step is
Speaker 1: to deny the minority the ability to rule over the
Speaker 1: majority of the country. This is in the hands of
Speaker 1: the American people. People have been voting for a month
Speaker 1: and we're coming to the end. You know. I think
Speaker 1: that Trump is going down. I think their country will
Speaker 1: repudiate this. I think the markers are pointing to a
Speaker 1: a significant democratic wave than anything else. If my prediction
Speaker 1: is wrong, it will be the least of the thing
Speaker 1: things that I've been wrong about um, because I will
Speaker 1: have been profoundly wrong about the character of the country.
Speaker 1: And I think the country, despite all its flaws, is
Speaker 1: a force for great good. And that's why I think
Speaker 1: the whole world is watching with trepidation and nervousness to
Speaker 1: see what the judgment of the American people will being
Speaker 1: now at a at a very very important moment in
Speaker 1: our history. Then, given how divided we are, what is
Speaker 1: your advice for the winners? We clearly, historically Americans have
Speaker 1: always had a conspiracy bent. It's always existed in American culture.
Speaker 1: But here's the deal. You can go and read Federalists
Speaker 1: ten by James Madison, and he expresses a worry, and
Speaker 1: the worry is that when you have a democracy, what's
Speaker 1: the poison that the democracy could fall victim too? And
Speaker 1: the poison is faction, is political parties, majoritarianism, a disregard
Speaker 1: for the rights of the minority. And they write about
Speaker 1: an over zealous majority imposing its will inappropriately on a
Speaker 1: disregarded minority. It breaks democracy. Restraint. Restraint restraint, you know,
Speaker 1: a sense that when you go into work you understand
Speaker 1: that a number that is north of of the country
Speaker 1: was for the other guy. Then a week from now,
Speaker 1: what will you be doing. I don't know. You see
Speaker 1: what happens, BECU see what happens. I might be game
Speaker 1: to the White House fence in a week. And now
Speaker 1: that week has passed. And for me, like many people
Speaker 1: across this country, it wasn't until you saw the people
Speaker 1: in the streets, you heard the horns honking, and business leaders,
Speaker 1: political leaders, people across this country, really across the world
Speaker 1: started saying, Okay, we've got a winner. You actually felt
Speaker 1: this collective sigh of relief across the country. But the
Speaker 1: thing is, seventy million people did vote for the president,
Speaker 1: and a lot of those seventy million people are still mad.
Speaker 1: And you have a president, unlike previous presidents, who's not
Speaker 1: accepting the results. The question is, did this election that
Speaker 1: elected Joe Biden, that didn't elect a lot of Democrats,
Speaker 1: that did not necessarily produce the blue wave, didn't deliver
Speaker 1: a decisive message to America. I had to ask Steve,
Speaker 1: so I called him back, and we'll be back with
Speaker 1: Steve right after the break. Tell me you and I
Speaker 1: talked one week ago, how you feel today. The results
Speaker 1: of election met my expectations, they didn't fulfill my hopes.
Speaker 1: I'm happy that Joe Biden is the president elect. But
Speaker 1: you think about this moment where it's clear about what
Speaker 1: the outcome of the election is, and you have almost
Speaker 1: the entirety of the Republican majority yet to congratulate the
Speaker 1: President elect of the United States. You know, in the end,
Speaker 1: the whole story of the country's went about fighting and struggle,
Speaker 1: and there's never been an easy way up the mountain.
Speaker 1: But we've got a really bad element of that. Trump
Speaker 1: is incited, encouraged and mainstreams that are part of his coalition,
Speaker 1: the complete disassociation from truth or reality, the President of
Speaker 1: Q and on candidates in the House majority. Then this
Speaker 1: wasn't the repudiation you were looking for. Well, it's a
Speaker 1: decisive victory, but no, Trump is um wasn't repudiated at all.
Speaker 1: You know, it's scored seventy million votes and it's gonna
Speaker 1: be a long struggle, long fight in this country. But
Speaker 1: a lot of Republicans who enabled this behavior over four
Speaker 1: years did not pay a price for it. And you
Speaker 1: know now you see the consequences of this. I wish
Speaker 1: every Republican senator from Lindsey Graham and Susan Collins and
Speaker 1: Joanie Earnest that made it was without but that's not
Speaker 1: what the people of those states decided. And so it's
Speaker 1: a long term fight and the failure to a seed
Speaker 1: to the election, to a seed to reality, it's terrible.
Speaker 1: I think that the Republican Party, they are sophisticated politicians, right,
Speaker 1: they know that Joe Biden won, yet they're looking in
Speaker 1: the camera premeditatedly, deliberately lying about what is the most
Speaker 1: basic foundational thing in the country, trying to subvert the
Speaker 1: outcome of a presidential election that they know was conducted
Speaker 1: fairly with a bunch of conspiracy theories. So what's the
Speaker 1: path forward, Steve? There is a tradition, and there have
Speaker 1: been some icy rides. Eisenhower and Truman road in silence.
Speaker 1: Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan didn't have much to talk about,
Speaker 1: but they rode together, and they showed the country the
Speaker 1: magnificence of the American system of government. The ex president
Speaker 1: is escorted by tradition since Reagan's inauguration to the east
Speaker 1: side of the capital, where the outgoing president will walk
Speaker 1: to Marine one, turn and wave. The incoming president waves back,
Speaker 1: and off he goes. The American system is renewed, It
Speaker 1: begins again. This is the greatness of the American experiment.
Speaker 1: That ride back on Marine one on Air Force one.
Speaker 1: That's a courtesy. Donald Trump doesn't deserve. And remember one
Speaker 1: thing in this country. Donald Trump doesn't leave the presidency.
Speaker 1: The presidency leaves Donald Trump. At high noon on January
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is out on his ass God right, presidential podium,
Speaker 1: God flags, God, Air Force one, God, the limo gone.
Speaker 1: It's over on the January one, because the American people
Speaker 1: fired him. We have won the first battle right against
Speaker 1: this strain of American autocracy, this rantid, corrupt Trumpist ideology,
Speaker 1: and we're going to fight it for a long long time.
Speaker 1: Harmony has not been restored to America. We are in
Speaker 1: a moment of great crisis. It's one of the greatest
Speaker 1: challenges in the in the history of the country, and
Speaker 1: the fight for democratic values is one that will go
Speaker 1: on for the endurance of my life, no doubt. The
Speaker 1: time between election day and calling a winner felt painstakingly slow,
Speaker 1: but at the same time went by in a blink.
Speaker 1: We didn't get that massive blue wave. We did get
Speaker 1: a decided winner in Joe Biden, but it wasn't an
Speaker 1: outright repudiation of the loser. Seventy million people so voted
Speaker 1: for him. And something Steve left me thinking about is this,
Speaker 1: While Trump may have lost the election, what kind of
Speaker 1: blow was really delivered to Trump? Is um Our goal
Speaker 1: is to cut through the noise and get straight to
Speaker 1: the issues. So I want to leave you with some
Speaker 1: space to think Modern Rules is a production of MSNBC
Speaker 1: and I Heart Radio. The podcast is hosted by me
Speaker 1: Stephanie Rule and executive produced by Mike Fiett and Katrina Norvell.
Speaker 1: Meredith Bennett Smith is Senior editor for NBC Think and
Speaker 1: our editorial lead. The podcast is engineered and edited by
Speaker 1: Josh Fisher and special banks to Katherine Kim, our Global
Speaker 1: head of Digital News right here at NBC News and
Speaker 1: MSNBC