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Speaker 1: Lave.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome to My Favorite Murder.

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Speaker 1: That's Georgia Heart Start.

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Speaker 2: That's Karen Kilgariff. This is the.

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Speaker 1: Podcast that we've been making for quite some time.

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Speaker 2: Remember us us from.

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Speaker 1: The twenty sixteen High House Your Choker.

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Speaker 3: Do just anything pre twenty twenty is choker? I saw

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Speaker 3: this like meme that was like here's a video from

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Speaker 3: twenty ten where they didn't have, you know, their phones

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Speaker 3: recording everything all the time, and I'm.

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Speaker 2: Like, yes, we did, Yes they fucking did twenty ten,

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Speaker 2: Yes they did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when did that? I feel like cell phones came

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Speaker 1: into like constant use, like two thousand and two, two

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Speaker 1: thousand and three, I would say.

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Speaker 2: Two thousand and eight, maybe six or eight?

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Speaker 1: Is it?

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Speaker 2: How old was I twenty six?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, later than that.

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Speaker 1: Later well, like well, iPhones, I like slip phones. The

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Speaker 1: idea that you can make a call from your car,

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Speaker 1: I think was like came into I just remember my

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Speaker 1: friend getting a phone and me being like, hey, can

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Speaker 1: I use your phone? And she would start to get

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Speaker 1: mad where I'm like, oh, this is costing you money

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Speaker 1: every time I use it?

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Speaker 2: Oh the car phone? She her actual iPhone.

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Speaker 1: Well, just it wasn't an iPhone. It was the little

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Speaker 1: Motorola flip phone and that era.

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Speaker 2: My friend had the what's the one that you flipped BlackBerry? Yes? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And it was like, oh, she's a drug dealer. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: she's got phone.

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Speaker 1: She's got to put it in write deal drugs nine

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Speaker 1: one one, it's drug time.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, how are you very good?

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Speaker 1: And yourself?

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Speaker 2: Thanks?

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Speaker 1: Uh huh? What did you what if you been doing lately?

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Speaker 2: Nothing? Reading a lot?

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Speaker 1: What are you reading? So?

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Speaker 3: I found two books by this author named Abigail Dean

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Speaker 3: British so it's red and British accent, oh, which we love. Sure,

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Speaker 3: it's the first one. The one that I write is

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Speaker 3: called Girl A. And it's about like, remember you know

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Speaker 3: the stories about like the family that the dad is

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Speaker 3: like a crazy religious person and ends up like keeping

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Speaker 3: them all locked into the house. And this is about

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Speaker 3: the oldest girl who escapes that situation, frees all her siblings.

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Speaker 3: She goes by Girl A because she's a minor so

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Speaker 3: they don't say her name, and about her life now

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Speaker 3: when she's older in her life than and leading up

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Speaker 3: to her having to escape.

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Speaker 2: It's fucking incredible.

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Speaker 3: True story or fiction ocasional but like clearly based on

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Speaker 3: some true things.

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Speaker 2: Holy shit, Like I'm on my second listen of it.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah, girl a because there's so many things

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Speaker 3: that you don't put together till the end, because there's

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Speaker 3: totally twists in it.

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Speaker 1: Say the author's name again, Abigail Dean amazing and.

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Speaker 3: The other books she wrote that I read is called

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Speaker 3: Day One also incredible. Like, highly recommend both of those books.

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Speaker 1: Okay, cool. I just found out that the I think

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Speaker 1: it was like late eighties early nineties version of Anne

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Speaker 1: of green Gables, which is I think the Canadian TV

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Speaker 1: series is on TV is on Prime. Okay, I'm happy

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Speaker 1: for you, and so you can go back and we

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Speaker 1: can all go back and watch Anne of green Gates,

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Speaker 1: this series that reminds me. I watched a movie over

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Speaker 1: the weekend. I'm happy for you. Was it a recommendation

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Speaker 1: of mine?

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Speaker 2: Probably? And I don't know if I liked it?

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Speaker 3: Okay, it's just gonna be controversial, sure sense and sensibility.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't for you.

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Speaker 3: I just didn't like the pairings, right, Snaithe should have

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Speaker 3: been with Emma, I know, and Hugh should have been

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Speaker 3: with Kate. I know that he was so adorable, and

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Speaker 3: I didn't expect to think of him so adorably, and

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Speaker 3: that story is like, it was a good movie. I

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Speaker 3: just couldn't get past Snake, the pairings. You know.

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Speaker 1: You're like, I can't believe that this warlock is just

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Speaker 1: walking around.

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Speaker 3: Snape and Rose from Titanic do not belong together.

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Speaker 1: That's just it. They're a mismatch. And she's like, no way,

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Speaker 1: I would never consider you. And then basically is like.

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Speaker 2: Then she lowers her standards, like I don't like that.

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Speaker 1: No, she learns what real love looks and feels like,

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Speaker 1: which Willoughby fucking heavin all the Willoughby's of my life.

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Speaker 1: I swear to God, I love sad.

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Speaker 3: At the moment of him at the end crying because

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Speaker 3: you're like, that's what I want to see my ex.

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Speaker 1: That's doing. We need that. We need him weeping. All

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Speaker 1: of us who have been willoughbiede the fuck out need

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Speaker 1: the moment where it's like and then that son of

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Speaker 1: a bitch turns look, we are we are that moment, Karen.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sorry to tell you, but all the Willoughbies

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Speaker 3: are like, holy.

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Speaker 2: Shit, Yeah, good job, yeah, good job.

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Speaker 1: Do you thank you?

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Speaker 2: We did it?

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Speaker 1: Actually, this feels pretty satisfying. Right now, this is our

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Speaker 1: Willoughby moment. I've never thought of it this way.

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Speaker 3: You're a success, You're a success story. You're a fucking

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Speaker 3: Caitlin's leaving the fucking church with snape.

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Speaker 1: However, if snape was a podcast deal, right and you're living,

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Speaker 1: you're a willoughbyiede and he's fucking writing off into his

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Speaker 1: sad little life.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, congratulations on your wow you too.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: It's a great way to look at sense and sensibility.

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Speaker 1: Now do you like it? I like it? Now, listen,

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Speaker 1: don't come after me. I did like the movie. I

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Speaker 1: thought it was great.

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Speaker 2: I just was like, but no, yes, but when are

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Speaker 2: they gonna swap right?

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Speaker 1: I mean no, I know, but I do love that.

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Speaker 1: It's like, first of all, Alan Rickman one of the.

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Speaker 2: Great sorry Snape, Yes, it's incredible.

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Speaker 1: Well, but the way he plays that part where you're like,

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Speaker 1: in the beginning, you're like, you's not gonna like you, but.

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Speaker 2: It turns out he's like the best dude.

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Speaker 1: And it just is that lesson for girls where it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this kind of love feels great because you're basically being

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Speaker 1: fed sugar water, right, and then you're gonna spin out

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Speaker 1: and be by yourself when he's just like, what I

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Speaker 1: didn't like?

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Speaker 3: You have to do that in your twenties, have fun.

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Speaker 3: But when a guy buys you a fucking piano or

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Speaker 3: whatever it is that you're interested in, and is like,

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Speaker 3: what's it called supporting, supporting or encouraging these things that

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Speaker 3: he thinks make you great because they do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, then that's the guy.

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Speaker 1: Yes, not the guy that's just like, here, let me

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Speaker 1: ruin your tarnish.

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Speaker 2: Your reputation, cut your hair off.

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Speaker 1: Remember the lock of her phone, that's right to keep it.

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Speaker 1: The part that before she gets sick, where she goes,

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Speaker 1: she keeps looking for him, keeps looking for him. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: it's very triggering for me because I did all that.

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Speaker 1: I just want to say, though I was on speed,

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Speaker 1: so it's kind of not fair. I like the level

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Speaker 1: to which I made it full of myself too. That movie,

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Speaker 1: it just puts the feeling back which she goes to

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Speaker 1: the like the big ball, and she sees him and goes.

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Speaker 3: And everyone herns, I fucking did that outside a guy's work,

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Speaker 3: of course, Why isn't he calling it back? I know

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Speaker 3: time he gets off work, I'm gonna go stand out front, dude.

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Speaker 2: We've all done it twenty years.

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Speaker 1: Old, so bad. I actually remember the one time I

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Speaker 1: didn't do it. I saw this guy that I was

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Speaker 1: doing stuff like that, and he walked right by me,

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Speaker 1: and like, if I had just reached out went oh

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Speaker 1: my god, Hi, what are you doing, he would have

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Speaker 1: had to stop and say hi. But instead I just

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Speaker 1: literally like good Homer simpsoned into the wall and then

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Speaker 1: just like let him pass. And then that was the

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Speaker 1: beginning of like, you have to stop, right, you have

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Speaker 1: to stop telling yourself he's doing what you're doing because

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Speaker 1: you're just doing a bunch of stuff and he's.

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Speaker 2: And he's not that great. What is that term?

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Speaker 3: That psychological term for when you're obsessed with people, but

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Speaker 3: it's not about them, it's about.

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Speaker 1: Limers, limmerens, it's full on limerens, this guy.

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Speaker 3: These guys were not worth a fucking moment of my time.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't obsessing about them. I was obsessing about me

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Speaker 3: and my life, and I just transferred it onto these

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Speaker 3: fucking boring ass beige dudes.

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Speaker 1: But it doesn't matter, because you just have to go

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Speaker 1: through it and learn it. Yeah, but I wish you

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Speaker 1: didn't go goddamn.

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Speaker 2: All right, find your snape. Mine's name is Vince. He's incredible.

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Speaker 3: It's a great life when you allow someone to be

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Speaker 3: nice to you, yep, you know, yeah, when you think

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Speaker 3: you're worth being nice.

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Speaker 1: To, when they care about the thing that you're putting

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Speaker 1: your heart and soul into and they want to make

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Speaker 1: it better for you instead of I can't anyway, I

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Speaker 1: can't even give you an example. All right.

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Speaker 3: Well, now that we poured our hearts out, yeah, and

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Speaker 3: admitted to so many things, let's talk about our podcast network,

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Speaker 3: successful podcast network.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Let's focus on the fundamentals, right, it's.

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Speaker 2: Called exactly Right Media. Here are some highlights that's right.

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Speaker 1: For example, you remember when we covered the story of

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Speaker 1: Pearl Heart, who was an outlaw of feminist and all

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Speaker 1: around badass. Also a merch icon. Right, We've put her

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Speaker 1: on mugs, We've put her on stickers. It's the I

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Speaker 1: Shall Never submit Pearl Heart quote and designed by Sammy Rich,

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Speaker 1: one of our great listener slash artists who's done a

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Speaker 1: bunch of great stuff for us. We also have the

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Speaker 1: full quote on t shirts. You can get either of

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Speaker 1: these designs in the Exactly Right store. So go to

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Speaker 1: exactly right store dot com. That's how easy it is.

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Speaker 2: Wow, Wow, good mug. It's like hearty, it's a hardy mug.

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Speaker 1: And it holds for me. This is my first cup

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Speaker 1: in the morning when I'm like really trying to get

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Speaker 1: some shit done. Yeah, you don't have to go back

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Speaker 1: to that coffee pop a bunch of times. It's all

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Speaker 1: in here.

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Speaker 3: Love it our beer. Also, please be friends with us

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Speaker 3: on social media. We'll stand outside your work when you

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Speaker 3: get off and beg you to follow us on social media.

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Speaker 1: We will do the equivalent of yelling Willoughby anywhere you

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Speaker 1: go Willoughby in your face.

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Speaker 3: If you follow us on Instagram and TikTok at my

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Speaker 3: favorite murder. We do post a lot of really fun

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Speaker 3: stuff now, I mean we have the best social media team.

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Speaker 3: We have behind the scenes clips, we have polls, we

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Speaker 3: have announcements of whatever else we're up to.

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Speaker 2: It's a fine fucking place to be.

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Speaker 1: There's fun stuff going on. Thank you Shannon. Yeah, who

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Speaker 1: runs our social media accounts, Shannon mcinally one of the

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Speaker 1: best in the biz. Also, I don't know if you've

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Speaker 1: heard about this or not. You know, we barely bring

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Speaker 1: it up, but we're going on.

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Speaker 3: Tour, going on a little tour. Yes, we'd love to

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Speaker 3: see you guys. We've got so many messages on those

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Speaker 3: social media's about how excited you guys are.

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Speaker 1: Yes. In fact, we put out a call where we

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Speaker 1: ask you to send us any favorite tour memories that

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Speaker 1: you have, pictures, video moments that you at live shows

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Speaker 1: that we've done over the years.

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Speaker 2: I guess yeah.

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Speaker 1: And also just so you know, there's still some seats left.

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Speaker 1: At least at the time of this recording, there are

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Speaker 1: some seats left. But go on to my favorite murder

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Speaker 1: dot com slash Live and you can go see what

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Speaker 1: the availability is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we hope to see you there.

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Speaker 1: Yes, please come and yell willowy.

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Speaker 3: Yell, will be at us please. All right, So this

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Speaker 3: is my solo episode. This is my time to shine.

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Speaker 1: Everybody be quiet, I'm talking all right.

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Speaker 3: Well, in the pain of doing some kind of epic

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Speaker 3: episodes and epic stories for solos, today, I'm doing a

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Speaker 3: story that we've referenced many times in talking about other

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Speaker 3: unsolved cases. It's one of the biggest cold cases in

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Speaker 3: Australian history and one that has haunted the country for

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Speaker 3: about sixty years. Today, I'm going to tell you the

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Speaker 3: tragic story of the unsolved murders of two teenage girls

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Speaker 3: in the nineteen sixties, Wanda Beach murders. All right, Well,

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Speaker 3: the main source iies for this story is the very

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Speaker 3: first episode of the incredible Australian true crime podcast.

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Speaker 1: Case File that we all know Dary Web.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we've talked about it many times in the show,

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Speaker 3: and the rest of the sources can be found in

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Speaker 3: the show notes.

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Speaker 1: Case File is incredible. If you've never gotten to listen

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Speaker 1: to it and you have a case that you're obsessed with,

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Speaker 1: it's one of the most comprehensively reported, like thoroughly reported podcasts.

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Speaker 3: It's amazing without any of the pomp and circumstance that

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Speaker 3: you find here on My favorite murder yes.

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Speaker 1: Or just yeah, the kind of general conversational aspect, it's

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Speaker 1: just business, business, business.

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Speaker 3: And anonymous, which I find so cool. Like it's been

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Speaker 3: around so long and he's still anonymous. Can you imagine, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you and I being anonymous? That would be well, what.

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Speaker 1: Would be the point. Didn't we do all of this

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Speaker 1: for attention in the first place? Is and forever I

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Speaker 1: really learned that lesson. Didn't we okay.

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Speaker 3: So on the morning of Tuesday, January twelfth, nineteen sixty

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Speaker 3: five year old boy named Peter Smith is walking in

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Speaker 3: an area of Sydney called the Wanda Beach sand Hills.

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Speaker 3: It's a long series of dunes by the ocean south

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Speaker 3: of the city. So I am not from a place

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Speaker 3: that has dunes, so I always figured like they weren't

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Speaker 3: very secluded, just like rolling hills of sand. But apparently

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Speaker 3: they're like, you know, like the dune murder that you covered. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: what was that called Lady of the Dunes. It's like

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Speaker 3: big sweeping hills, So you can get like privacy in

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Speaker 3: those dunes, which I find interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's weird because like even in the dunes near Dylan

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Speaker 1: Beach where I grew up, it's not like there's a

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Speaker 1: ton of them, but you truly go over a hill

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Speaker 1: and then you can't see anything passed between where the

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Speaker 1: dunes are and where.

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Speaker 3: The houses start. Wow, I've never been in a place

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Speaker 3: like that before. I think I wouldn't have imagined that.

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Speaker 3: So he's there in the dunes. Peter is with his

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Speaker 3: three young nephews at the time, and he sees in

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Speaker 3: the dunes what looks at first like a mannequin, and

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Speaker 3: then he quickly realizes that's not what he's looking at.

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Speaker 3: Peter realizes he's looking at the body of a teenage

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Speaker 3: girl partially buried in the sand, and he sprints to

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Speaker 3: the nearby Wanda Surf Club to get help.

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Speaker 2: He tells the caretaker at the club.

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Speaker 3: What he's found and they call the police. When the

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Speaker 3: police arrived, Peter brings him to the spot where he

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Speaker 3: made this horrifying discovery. It's only then that the police

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Speaker 3: see that next to the body Peter discovered is another

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Speaker 3: foot sticking out of the sand. Soon they realize that

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Speaker 3: these are the bodies of two teenage girls who had

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Speaker 3: been reported missing just in the wee hours without same morning.

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Speaker 3: Their names are Marianne Schmidt and Christine Sharick and they

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Speaker 3: are both just fifteen years old. So let's go back

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Speaker 3: to the day before Monday, January eleventh, the nineteen sixty five,

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Speaker 3: Marianne and Christine set off by train for the popular

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Speaker 3: beach south of Sydney called Cranulla Beach. This is how

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Speaker 3: you'd refer to the larger beach area and then the

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Speaker 3: Wanda Beach and those dunes is the name of the

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Speaker 3: smaller beach next to it, so it's a small location

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Speaker 3: in a bigger location. With the teenage girls are four

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Speaker 3: of Marianne's younger siblings. The girls are from a town

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Speaker 3: called west Ryde which is northwest of Sydney, and it's

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Speaker 3: not particularly close to Nala Beach, but it's like a

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Speaker 3: two hour journey, but it seems like it's the best

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Speaker 3: closest place to go in Australia. It's summer vacation in

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Speaker 3: Australia even though it's January.

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Speaker 2: How to dates work backwards?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Maryanne Christine had been to the speech recently

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Speaker 3: on New Year's Day, so it's not like anything new.

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Speaker 3: Marianne Schmidt's family had immigrated to Australia from Germany in

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Speaker 3: nineteen fifty eight. Her parents are Helmet and Elizabeth Schmidt,

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Speaker 3: and she has five siblings, Helmet Junior, who is a

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Speaker 3: year older than Marianne, and then her younger siblings Hans, Peter, Trixie,

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Speaker 3: Wolfgang and Norbert.

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Speaker 2: Those are great names.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: In nineteen sixty three, two years before the murders, Helmet Senior,

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Speaker 3: the father dies of Hodgkins lymphoma. So Elizabeth the mother

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Speaker 3: is a widow with six kids. The Schmidt family lives

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Speaker 3: next door to a couple named Jim and Jeannette Taig,

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Speaker 3: and these are Christine's grandparents, and so Christine lives with them,

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Speaker 3: and so Christina Marianne become fast friends. Both girls are

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Speaker 3: described as well behind caved, pretty quiet and shy, pretty

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Speaker 3: innocent girls. They love music, they love particularly Elvis Presley,

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Speaker 3: and they're almost always together. It sounds like they're pretty sheltered,

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Speaker 3: as is normal for suburban girls of that time. Marianne's

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Speaker 3: mom goes into the hospital for surgery in early January,

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Speaker 3: and so Marianne and Helmut Junior, her big brother, are

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Speaker 3: left in charge of all the younger kids. So on

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Speaker 3: the ninth of January, Marianne and Christine had gotten permission

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Speaker 3: to take some of those younger kids to the beach.

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Speaker 3: So everyone the little kids except Helmut Junior and Hans

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Speaker 3: are going. And so that group is the teenage girls

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Speaker 3: and then Peter who is ten, Trixie who's nine, Wolfgang

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Speaker 3: who's seven, and Norbert who's five. So on the day

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Speaker 3: of this beach trip, Christine had mentioned to her grandmother

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Speaker 3: that they might take the group over to Wanda Beach,

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Speaker 3: and the Sandhills. Christine says she and Marianne had wandered

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Speaker 3: there previously, but Christine's grandmother tells her that'll be too

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Speaker 3: far to walk for the little kids, tells her not

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Speaker 3: to go to stay at the main beach. It's unclear

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Speaker 3: if Christine's grandmother knows this, but the Wanda sand Hills

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Speaker 3: are actually known to be an area where people go

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Speaker 3: for privacy, meaning it's also a place where couples go

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Speaker 3: to have sex, but also where you can find creeps

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Speaker 3: and voyeurs and all kinds of unsavory characters. Yeah, so

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Speaker 3: maybe that's why she told him not to.

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Speaker 1: Go over there, because it's like this perfect little hiding spot.

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Speaker 1: It's like a little sand ravine behind.

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Speaker 3: The hookup spot, probably right right. And while Cronola is

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Speaker 3: a beautifully maintained public beach, the sand hills are full

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Speaker 3: of litter. They're not monitored at all. It's a much

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Speaker 3: more desolate area. And so it sounds like on their

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Speaker 3: previous trip to the beach, Christine and Marine had wandered

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Speaker 3: on these sand hills already, but it's unclear who, if anyone,

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Speaker 3: they met there, but it is a cool, kind of

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Speaker 3: unique spot anyways, So it's not weird that they would

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Speaker 3: have wandered there, So the kids set out around ten am.

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Speaker 2: On the train.

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Speaker 3: Witnesses see the girls get into a conversation with a

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Speaker 3: teenage boy who looks about fifteen years old. There's not

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Speaker 3: much more of a description of him than that. When

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Speaker 3: the kids have to change trains to get on the

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Speaker 3: one that brings them to the beach, the boy stays.

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Speaker 2: Behind on the original train.

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Speaker 3: They never id him or figure out who he was,

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Speaker 3: and everyone gets to the beach a at around eleven am.

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Speaker 3: When there, the weather is not great for swimming. It's windy,

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Speaker 3: the seas are choppy, and people are warned not to

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Speaker 3: go in, but Wolfgang really wants to go in, so

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Speaker 3: Marian takes him in the shallow end just for a

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Speaker 3: little bit, and then the kids all sit down by

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Speaker 3: some rocks with their lunch. So while this is happening,

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Speaker 3: the girls talk to another teenage boy who was hunting

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Speaker 3: for crabs, and then they go their separate ways. The

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Speaker 3: older girls decide to take everyone for a walk in

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Speaker 3: the sand hills, despite warnings from Christine's grandma, and again

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Speaker 3: it's a pretty far walk from the main beach, and

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Speaker 3: the kids are pretty young. So this whole story is

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Speaker 3: like were they going to meet someone or was it

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Speaker 3: totally happenstance. It doesn't completely make sense that they wandered

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Speaker 3: there and met someone. It seems almost like they were

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Speaker 3: looking for someone. Maybe they had met them the last

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Speaker 3: time they were at the beach, seems that way.

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Speaker 1: And it seems like little kids at the beach would

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Speaker 1: want to be in the water, right, Like they don't

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Speaker 1: want to be like up in the dunes walking around.

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Speaker 3: And the walk is a mile from the main beach,

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Speaker 3: which is a long walk for like it's like five

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Speaker 3: and seven year olds. Yeah, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 3: Like I don't think they would have volunteered to go

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Speaker 3: do that.

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Speaker 1: Well, and just like you just want to be where

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Speaker 1: the action is, which is down by the water. Everybody

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Speaker 1: else is yeah right right around.

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Speaker 3: When they get to those sand hills where they start,

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Speaker 3: the younger kids are tired, They don't want to go

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Speaker 3: any further. The girls tell them to sit down. They said,

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Speaker 3: they'll walk back to the rocks where they left their stuff.

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Speaker 3: Then they'll come back for the kids and they'll all

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Speaker 3: head home. They're going to grab their stuff and they

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Speaker 3: can go. But the older girls don't walk back in

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Speaker 3: the direction of the rocks where their stuff is. They

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Speaker 3: keep heading north toward the sand hills. When the older sibling, Peter,

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Speaker 3: who's nine, you know, points is out to them, the

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Speaker 3: girls just kind of laugh it off and keep going.

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Speaker 2: So what does it mean?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we don't know.

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Speaker 3: Ten minutes pass, and then Peter sends seven year old

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Speaker 3: Wolfgang to go look for the girls. From a distance,

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Speaker 3: Wolfgang sees the girls talking to a boy who he

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Speaker 3: later says looks about sixteen years old. He says the

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Speaker 3: boy was wearing gray pants, no shirt, and had long

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Speaker 3: blonde hair. He's very tan and has white sunblock on

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Speaker 3: his nose, and he's holding a blue towel. And this

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Speaker 3: is from a seven year old though, and later after

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Speaker 3: this trauma happens, so you know, it's hard to know

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Speaker 3: exactly how accurate this is of what he saw.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want to base anything on yeah.

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Speaker 3: Right, Wolfgang says. The boy seemed angry and was asking

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Speaker 3: the girls their names.

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Speaker 2: He says.

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Speaker 3: The three of them then walk farther into the sand hills,

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Speaker 3: and then Wolfgang loses sight of them, and he stays

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Speaker 3: in that same spot and after about ten minutes, Wolfgang

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Speaker 3: sees the same teenager walking out of the sand hills,

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Speaker 3: this time alone. He says his beach towel is now

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Speaker 3: tied around his neck, and Wolfgang asks the boy where

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Speaker 3: the girls are, and the older boy ignores him and

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Speaker 3: keeps walking. Wolfgang will later add two crucial details to

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Speaker 3: his testimony. First, he says that this is the same

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Speaker 3: boy the group had seen earlier who had been hunting crabs.

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Speaker 3: And second that he says that when he saw the

438
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,280
Speaker 3: boy talking to the girls, the boy had what he

439
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 3: described as a hunting knife attached to his belt, and

440
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,680
Speaker 3: when the boy is walking back to the beach after

441
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,159
Speaker 3: without the girls, the knife is gone. But all of

442
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 3: this comes out in drips, and apparently the details change

443
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,679
Speaker 3: a bit as he's relaying it to the police later. Remember,

444
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 3: he's only seven years old, and we don't know if

445
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,879
Speaker 3: this guy had anything to actually do with it in

446
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,960
Speaker 3: the first place. Yeah, doesn't mean that he was actually

447
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 3: a suspect, right exactly.

448
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,400
Speaker 1: It also doesn't mean that the police didn't coerce some

449
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,360
Speaker 1: sort of like, well, did you see anybody you see

450
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: a knife? You know they got stabbed, yes, Because to

451
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 1: me it seems like thinking of it the average seven

452
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 1: year old. There's a lot of details in that that

453
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 1: are like maybe they're absolutely from him and he was

454
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,199
Speaker 1: super observant whatever, but it doesn't I don't know.

455
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, like my nephew who's got young, I could totally

456
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,679
Speaker 3: see being like fed information and not realizing he's just

457
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 3: trying to please you or he's trying to Yeah, maybe

458
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,960
Speaker 3: has a memory that's not real.

459
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 1: I mean because it's the mid sixties, right, yeah, yeah,

460
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,320
Speaker 1: so none of that coercion stuff is even beginning right

461
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 1: in police questioning.

462
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 3: Right, and not to say that it's on purpose, but

463
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,479
Speaker 3: it's just easy to feed information to kids. Yeah, all right,

464
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 3: So Wolfgang rejoins the other kids after he's you know,

465
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 3: doesn't see the girls come back, and they kids wait

466
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 3: for the rest of the afternoon, but they know the

467
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 3: last train home leaves at six pm, So at around

468
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 3: five o'clock they start making their way back down the beach.

469
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 2: So scary, I know, like, what do we do? Yes,

470
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 2: what do we do?

471
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:29,919
Speaker 1: Yeah? So scary.

472
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,120
Speaker 3: They retrieve their belongings by the rocks where they left him,

473
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 3: and they make the two hour train ride home. All

474
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 3: of this is done under the supervision of Peter who's

475
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 3: nine again. When they get home around eight o'clock, they

476
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 3: tell their families about the girl's disappearance, and it's at

477
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 3: that point that the girls' families call the police because

478
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 3: it's just so at a character, you know, these like shy,

479
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 3: well behaved girls to disappear.

480
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 1: And poor Peter had to like make a call totally.

481
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 3: He had to wait the two hours to get home, yep,

482
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 3: and then he had to get those kids on that

483
00:21:58,359 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 3: train correctly, totally.

484
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 1: Any also had to be like, what I'm going to

485
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 1: do now is go home and then tell them when

486
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 1: I get there. Right.

487
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 3: Something's often, I know it, but I have to get

488
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 3: these kids home. Yes, it's horrifying awful. The police respond

489
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 3: to the call around midnight. Like many of these cases

490
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,120
Speaker 3: that we talked about, the police are not immediately worried

491
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 3: or fired up about the disappearance of teenage girls. They're

492
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 3: inclined to think that they went somewhere willingly. But the

493
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 3: fact that they were generally known to be responsible, happy girls,

494
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 3: and that they left all the kids at the beach

495
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 3: is even then seen as concerning the next morning. When

496
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 3: the girl's bodies are discovered, investigators descend upon the beach,

497
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 3: and the missing.

498
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 2: Girls are quickly identified.

499
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 3: The girls had been mostly covered with sand, but it

500
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 3: seems like it was because the wind had blown the

501
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 3: sand over them overnight, not that they were buried, which

502
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 3: seems like a crucial detail, but who knows. About one

503
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 3: hundred feet away from where the girls are found, investigators

504
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 3: find blood and signs of a struggle.

505
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 2: There's a drag mark leading from.

506
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 3: This area to where both the girls were found, and

507
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 3: this leads investigators to believe that Marianne had been killed

508
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 3: roughly in the place where her body was found, and

509
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 3: that perhaps Christine had tried to run away and was

510
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 3: chased down and killed about one hundred feet away and

511
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 3: then dragged to the place where both of the girls

512
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 3: were found.

513
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: Horrifying, I know, and also just like knowing that right

514
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: over that dune, like so close are these little kids, right,

515
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: so they're in danger, but then they're also like we're

516
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 1: all in danger.

517
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 3: Along the drag marks there are places with higher concentrations

518
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 3: of blood, leading investigators to believe that whoever dragged her

519
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 3: had to stop several times to take breaks. And this

520
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 3: is important because Christine was a very petite girl, so

521
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 3: this makes investigators think that her killer maybe wasn't particularly strong,

522
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 3: which again leads us to a teenage boy making sense

523
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 3: as the culprit.

524
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: Ya know what I mean. Yeah, So, tire.

525
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 3: Tracks are found about thirty meters away. Investigators think the

526
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 3: killer may have left in the car, but it's not

527
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 3: known if those tire tracks had anything to do with

528
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 3: what's going on with the girl's bodies being found. There's

529
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 3: a road, it's not very busy, but who knows.

530
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: If enough wind blew to cover them in sand, then

531
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: couldn't those tire tracks be new from that morning? Totally? Yeah?

532
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 3: So both girls had been brutally attacked and the details

533
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 3: are so awful that they are never fully released to

534
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 3: the public.

535
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: Wo I know.

536
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 3: Both girls had been stabbed multiple times, Both had been

537
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 3: sexually assaulted. Christine had been also hit in the head

538
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 3: with a blunt object. Police believe this may have been

539
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 3: a rock, but there are many possibilities, which is what's

540
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 3: so frustrating about this case. They believe the instrument used

541
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 3: for the stabbing may have been a fishing knife. Police

542
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 3: recover a semen sample, though it's nineteen sixty five, of course,

543
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 3: so it's not as crucial as it would later be

544
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 3: or thought to be as crucial. The pathologist is unable

545
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 3: to estimate a precise time of death. Since the girls

546
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 3: had been buried in hot sand. He can only estimate

547
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 3: that their deaths had occurred between two pm and midnight,

548
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 3: and this is just another baffling part. Christine is also

549
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 3: found to have undigested cabbage and celery in her stomach.

550
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 3: She also had a blood alcohol reading that would suggest

551
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 3: that she had either one drink very shortly before she died,

552
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 3: or several drinks over the course of the hours leading

553
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 3: to her death. None of the kids report having seen

554
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 3: Christine drinking. She hadn't brought any alcohol with her at all,

555
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 3: and so the first possibility seems more likely to me.

556
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 3: It sounds like, if the teenage boy theory is right,

557
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,959
Speaker 3: you meet this hot teenage boy on the beach, He's like,

558
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 3: want a swig from my flask?

559
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 1: You want it?

560
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 2: Seem cool? You take a swig. So that's the one drink,

561
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 2: you know.

562
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: I definitely would have done it personally, absolutely, And that's

563
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: kind of like that's what the beach is for. It's

564
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: like fun times. For sure.

565
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 3: We used to take a bus to Newport Beach when

566
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 3: we should not have been anywhere near that fucking.

567
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: Well because it's free, it's a public place. There's people,

568
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: you know, there's going to be people there.

569
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 2: Sketchiest people, ske sketchiest people.

570
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: The weird thing is, though, when you say cabbage and

571
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: then I'm like celery, sounds like she had a bloody mary.

572
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 3: No, okay, let me finish this. Okay, So she didn't

573
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 3: have alcohol with her stuff. She also but she also

574
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 3: didn't have anything containing cabbage and celery that she brought

575
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 3: to the beach. But these ingredients are commonly found in

576
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 3: an Australian snack called a chicko roll, which is basically

577
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 3: like a cross between a spring roll and a burrito.

578
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 3: She would have had to have eaten this within an

579
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 3: hour of her death. So where did she get that?

580
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 3: Right at the same place where she got a swig

581
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 3: of alcohol. All of this information leads investigators to believe

582
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 3: that Christine may have been given food and alcohol by

583
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 3: her killer. Police bring all the kids back to the

584
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 3: sand Hills to retrace their steps and tell them everything

585
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 3: they remember. She's like, I know Tramama City. This is

586
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 3: where Wolfgang story about the teenager he first saw starts emerging.

587
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 3: Sounds like the detail about him caring what he thought

588
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 3: was a hunting knife would have come out after he

589
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 3: knew the.

590
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 2: Girls had been stabbed.

591
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 3: So, as we said, still the media runs with the

592
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 3: idea that police are looking for a surfer looking teenager.

593
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 3: I can't help but think of Spiccoli, like that's the look, you.

594
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: Know what I mean, right, And usually those dudes, if

595
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: they truly are surfers, they're like, listen, I just came

596
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: back here to get high. I could please don't bother me.

597
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 3: Like totally, or hey, here's some cute teenage girls right,

598
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 3: like you know, but he's a bad news, bad actor. Yeah,

599
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 3: they get thousands of tips, the problem being, of course,

600
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 3: that that look for teenage boys in Australia, to tell

601
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 3: you it is fucking everyone. Yeah, you know, a massive

602
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 3: search of the dunes takes place.

603
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: With long hair beat long hair nineteen sixty five.

604
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 3: I like long hair and the nose, the like zinc

605
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 3: oxide on the nose. Another girl would have met a

606
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 3: guy like that at that same beach at some time

607
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,239
Speaker 3: in the past six it's been like I know who

608
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 3: that guy is totally. Yeah, and maybe they did. Yeah maybe,

609
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 3: I'm sure tons of tips, thousands of tips come in.

610
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 3: A massive search of the dunes takes place, with thousands

611
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 3: of investigators, aided by the army, digging up thousands of

612
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 3: pounds of stand and sifting it. In the end, investigators

613
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 3: find a one inch section of a knife blade that

614
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 3: is found to have tracemounts of blood on it. It's

615
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 3: unclear if this had been part of the murder weapon,

616
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 3: though the pathologists did believe that some of Christine's wounds

617
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 3: could have come from a broken blade, so it's possible.

618
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 3: Good police read the girl's diaries and find out that

619
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 3: on the girl's initial visit to the beach on New

620
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 3: Year's Day, about two weeks before they took the siblings,

621
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 3: they girls had met and kissed two teenage boys. Which

622
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 3: is the point of going to the beach when you're

623
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 3: a teenager.

624
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 1: That's right, and the reason you go back hoping to

625
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: see those totally.

626
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, The boys are known to the public only by

627
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 3: their first names, Ted and Jim. Police make an appeal

628
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 3: for those boys to come forward, and they do, and

629
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 3: they confirm that they had met the girls on the

630
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 3: beach on New Year's Day, but they said they never

631
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 3: made plans to meet them again, and both the boys

632
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 3: have allibies that check out, so they were cleared. But

633
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 3: it does seem like they're going back to the beach

634
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 3: for the same reason, right, But then why bring their siblings,

635
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 3: their little siblings.

636
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: They had no choice because they basically were babysitting, So

637
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: it's like we'll make a day of it and then

638
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: hopefully see those boys.

639
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: There, right, or it's an excuse to go, like let

640
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 2: our parents go there again. Yeah, that's true.

641
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 3: So many people believe that the girls had planned to

642
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 3: meet someone in the sand Hills that day, since they

643
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 3: were so adamant about going, despite having the kids with them,

644
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 3: and despite warnings from Christine's grandmother not to take the kids.

645
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 3: And again, remember when they walked away and the brother

646
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 3: was like, that's not the direction you're supposed to go in,

647
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 3: and they laughed it off and kept going. Yeah, that

648
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 3: seems like they were purposely going to meet someone.

649
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: It also feels like maybe if that was their first

650
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: foray into beach culture, like it's like, you know, those

651
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: boys are like come over here, this is where people

652
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: drink or do this, or that they're still going to

653
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: do it. Find someone like little kids, you go have

654
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: your fun over by the water. It will be right back.

655
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: I mean I did that many times.

656
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 3: Still, if they were going to meet someone, it doesn't

657
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 3: really make any sense because it's nineteen sixty five. They

658
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 3: were supposed to have gone the day before. You can't

659
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 3: really reschedule. So as police sort through thousands of tips,

660
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 3: they focus on testimony from a man named Dennis dot

661
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 3: who reports having seen the girls hurrying through the sand

662
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 3: hills on the day of their murder and thought he

663
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 3: saw one of them looking over their shoulder, as if

664
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 3: someone was following them. Dennis is the last known person

665
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 3: to have seen the girls. He hadn't seen anyone else

666
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 3: with the girls, so he says, but he had seen

667
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 3: other people in the sand hills. He describes a tall,

668
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 3: pale man who looked about nineteen years old, and a stockier,

669
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 3: older man, maybe in his forties. Neither of these men

670
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 3: are identified or come forward, but other witnesses come forward

671
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 3: with descriptions of several other people they saw in the

672
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 3: dunes that day, and police get descriptions of about eight

673
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 3: people who may have been in the area at the time.

674
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 3: Because remember, this is the place where people meet up

675
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 3: for nefarious acts. Sure you know, so no one's coming

676
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 3: forward to be like, yeah, I was there that day

677
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 3: cheating on my wife.

678
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: I were buying hush and having secret sex.

679
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: Right exactly, Like that's not going to happen, right.

680
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: But also, can I just point out, and I could

681
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: be completely wrong about this, but if I'm just doing

682
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: my try to solve it as we go, you must

683
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: that guy saying he saw a tall, skinny, pale guy

684
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: and a short dark like, yes, I hate when that happens.

685
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: It's like, that seems like a lie, that.

686
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 3: Seems like something you made up. Yeah, totally, Like, yeah,

687
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 3: this guy's the fish too.

688
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. So why is a tall, pale guy in the

689
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: dunes that that pale guy would be in his room?

690
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: It's a really good point.

691
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: The pale guy doesn't want to be there, that's a

692
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: really good point. Was he holding a map going where's

693
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: the subway? Oh my god?

694
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: Why is a pale guy at the beach? That's a

695
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 2: great question.

696
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense, I say, as a pale person

697
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: who has definitely gone to the beach.

698
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 3: A bunch police make an appeal for people to come forward.

699
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 3: They release a map of the area that they're particularly

700
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 3: interested in, and this does generate some new witness testimonies.

701
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 3: People hadn't realized how close to the crime scene they

702
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 3: had been that day because those secluded dunes. I mean,

703
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 3: it's so creepy, But none of the testimonies lead to

704
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 3: any suspects. Police officers are posted up in the sand dunes.

705
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 3: They dresses sunbathers like undercover. They're looking for any people

706
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 3: who were described by other witnesses, particularly of course that

707
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,479
Speaker 3: teenager that wolfgang had seen. But nothing comes of it

708
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 3: because of course he's not going to go back to

709
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 3: the scene of the crime.

710
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: We're going to go get a buzz cut and get

711
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: that zinc off his nose, Like if that's the guy.

712
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, pale guy's gonna get a tan.

713
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: Pale, pale guy's desperately laying out as fast as he can.

714
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 3: By the end of January, a reward is issued for

715
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 3: ten thousand pounds. Shortly after this, Australia adopts the Australian

716
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 3: dollar and the reward becomes twenty thousand Australian dollars. So

717
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 3: ten thousand pounds is twenty thousand Australian dollars in today's money.

718
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 3: You want to guess how much it's impossible it's we've

719
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 3: got pounds, we've got Australian dollars, and now you have

720
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 3: US dolls.

721
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 2: I'm thirty two fifty.

722
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so two hundred fifty thousand in today's money at

723
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 3: that time. Amazingly, the reward is still valid today for

724
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 3: information that would lead to the killer a lot of money.

725
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 3: It's a lot of money then, and it's not been

726
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: raised at all. You haven't generated any leads with that

727
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 3: amount of money.

728
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not. You're still twenty thousand Australian dollars.

729
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so with inflation now is worth significantly less. Do

730
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 3: you want to guess how much it's worth now? It's

731
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars US dollars in sixty

732
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 3: five Today it's worth about in US dollars ninety thousand,

733
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 3: thirteen thousand.

734
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god, doesn't sound right, does it. We've gone

735
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: through a lot of turmoil, we really have.

736
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 3: So now it's only thirteen thousand, it's not like e

737
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty thousand.

738
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: They gott to raise it up exactly So.

739
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 3: In April, but that same year, two fifteen year old

740
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 3: girls are attacked or almost attacked at a train station,

741
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 3: not too far from the same beach where Wanda Dunes

742
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 3: are at. A teenage boy grabs one of them. They

743
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,959
Speaker 3: both scream and the boy runs away. I mean the similarities.

744
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 3: The description of him is not very different from Wolfgang's

745
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 3: description of Spacoli, the surfer looking guy he had seen

746
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 3: talking to the girls angrily. A sketch of this teenager,

747
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 3: along with sketch of several other people who have been

748
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 3: described as being predatory in the dunes because there are

749
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 3: fucking also creeps hanging out, Peeping Tom's guys just exposing themselves.

750
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 3: Those sketches are released to the public. Of these sketches

751
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 3: to gain a lot of attention. One is of a

752
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 3: person described as quote the fat man. He had approached

753
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 3: women on the beach near the dunes on the day

754
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 3: of the murders and on other days with porn magazines.

755
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: Man, please will you read this to me? You can't read?

756
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 2: Can it?

757
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: The articles?

758
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 2: Oh my god, and also ask them inappropriate questions. So

759
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: fucking sketch.

760
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: Yes.

761
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: They also come up with a sketch.

762
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 3: Of a younger man with long hair who had inappropriately

763
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 3: propositioned women as well, but none of these people are

764
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:48,240
Speaker 3: ever identified. It's not a safe place. By the beginning

765
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 3: of nineteen sixty six, a year after the murders, the

766
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 3: number of police assigned to the case drops from forty

767
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 3: to eight. By this point in time, police have conducted

768
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 3: around seven thousand interviews. And at the same time, the

769
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 3: two older women are murdered in brutal, frenzied knife attacks

770
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 3: in public places in Sydney. Their names are Wilhelmina Krueger

771
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 3: and Anna Dolencoa. Police are fairly sure that these two

772
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 3: cases of these two women are related, and they wonder

773
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 3: if they could also be related to the Wanda Beach murders. Yeah,

774
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 3: they seem very similar. At the same time, the country's

775
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 3: focus shifts to Adelaide, where the three Beaumont children disappear

776
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 3: from a beach on a national holiday and that becomes

777
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 3: it's three little kids gone without a trace. That becomes

778
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 3: a huge story. This disappearance, the Wanda Beach murders, and

779
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 3: the Adelaide Oval abduction that I covered in episode four

780
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 3: sixty six, which happens in the seventies, are all seen

781
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 3: as some of Australia's most notorious and tragic unsolf cases.

782
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 3: So these all kind of happen around the same time

783
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 3: and get kind of grouped together.

784
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 2: They're all insolved. Yeah, I mean, there are a few.

785
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 3: Theories that have circulated over the years. One name that

786
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 3: comes up over and over again is a person that

787
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 3: we've spoken about on the show. His name's Christopher Wilder,

788
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 3: who would go on to be the Beauty Queen Killer

789
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 3: who I recently covered in episode four seventy two. Christopher

790
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 3: was living in Sydney and would have been nineteen at

791
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 3: the time of the murders. In nineteen sixty three, when

792
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 3: he was seventeen, he had been convicted of raping a

793
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 3: thirteen year old girl in the company of two other

794
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,240
Speaker 3: men who denied participating in the assault.

795
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 2: He had been given.

796
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 3: Probation and had gotten e lectroshock therapy. He was questioned

797
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,720
Speaker 3: in a series of sexual assaults at a different beach

798
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 3: which was closer to Sydney in nineteen sixty eight, a

799
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 3: couple of years after. Like Super Suspicious, he had also

800
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 3: lured a nineteen year old into his car and coerced

801
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 3: her into taking nude photos and had attempted to assault

802
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 3: her but she got away.

803
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: What does nothing ever fucking stick in these It's like

804
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: we're talking about big picture stuff and then details, but

805
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: it's that kind of thing where it's like they get

806
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: away with it, especially we're.

807
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 3: In over back then, especially where it was just like, oh,

808
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 3: slap on the wrist.

809
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: Oh peeping Tom, he's just a funny kids from that

810
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 1: movie Porky's whatever, or just like Jesus correct or back.

811
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 2: To the future.

812
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 3: How charming is that they met because he fell out

813
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 3: of a tree because he was fucking spot undressed.

814
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 1: Yes, it's wild, and I mean it's a wild thing

815
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: where it's just kind of like funny cultural comedy. It

816
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: actually is like, no, this is a red flag.

817
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 2: Totally, a huge red flag.

818
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: But in that case specifically, what were those authorities doing

819
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 1: where they're finding these guys doing similar parallel crime totally

820
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: and then just being like, well.

821
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 3: Maybe they're connected. Goodbye bye because he moves to the

822
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 3: US not long after, and then he visits Australia in

823
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty two when he comes back and he abducts

824
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 3: two fifteen year old girls, ties them up, photographs them.

825
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 2: So it's like, uh, the same thing. Pattern, it's called

826
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 2: the pattern at this point.

827
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: And it's escalating and it's been dangerous since day one.

828
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 1: But we're going to wait until multiple people are killed.

829
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 3: Because he leaves Australia then while still awaiting trial, and

830
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 3: two years after that he goes onto the horrific murder spree,

831
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 3: the Beauty Queen killer that I covered in the show

832
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 3: like this guy is a predator, an evil predator. At nineteen,

833
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 3: his physical description wouldn't have been different from the teenager

834
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,280
Speaker 3: or wolfgang had described. Furthermore, he was living in ride

835
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 3: one town over from the two girls, so maybe they

836
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 3: had seen him or met him before and knew him.

837
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 3: People wonder whether if Christopher wasn't the surferu Teine on

838
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 3: the beach, he may have been the teenager seen talking

839
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 3: to the girls on that first train on the way

840
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 3: to Crinella. That said, after his death, police in Australia

841
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,359
Speaker 3: do get a blood sample, and as far as we know,

842
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 3: it's never been linked to physical evidence from the crimes.

843
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 3: But I mean, crazier shit than it not having been

844
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 3: tested has happened, right, Yes, you know for sure. And

845
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 3: the blood samples that were collected from Christine's clothing are

846
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 3: now considered too degraded to be tested with the technology

847
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 3: we currently have. It's unclear if they were too degraded

848
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 3: to compare with Christopher's blood by nineteen eighty four when

849
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 3: he died, or at the time they were tested and

850
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 3: were not a match, Like, let's get this retested. Frustratingly,

851
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 3: the semen that was collected at the time of the

852
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 3: murders of the girls has said to have been lost.

853
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 2: And it's unclear what happened to those samples.

854
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: Upsetting, frustrating, typical, It's like, until nineteen ninety four, it

855
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: was the Dark Ages. Yeah, it was just hopefully you

856
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 1: got an organized, responsible cop that was writing everything down totally,

857
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: doing it by the book.

858
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 3: Totally, and then hopefully you find someone later who cares enough.

859
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: To test to bring it tested off.

860
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 3: And they give them funding to do such things because

861
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 3: they care. Yeah, it's just Yeah, it's a crapshoot.

862
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

863
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 3: Another name that comes up over and over again, because

864
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 3: of course there's multiple.

865
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: Because there's so many creed choices is.

866
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 2: A man named Alan Bassett.

867
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 3: He's convicted of another horrible sexual assault and murder in

868
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty six, and he's diagnosed with schizophrenia and winds

869
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 3: up serving his sentence in a psychiatric hospital. A police

870
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 3: detective who's absolutely convinced that Bassett is the killer continued

871
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 3: to correspond with him, and Bassett painted a picture for

872
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,760
Speaker 3: this detective, literally a painted be picture, and the detective

873
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 3: maintains that the painting contained information from the one to

874
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 3: Beach murders that has never been released to the public. Wow,

875
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 3: this detective has since died and what this information is

876
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 3: has never been disclosed in the years since because it's

877
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 3: not released to the Like, he just thinks in the painting,

878
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 3: there's some connection that only the killer would know.

879
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: He he doesn't fucking write it down on a piece of paper.

880
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe he did, but they don't release that information.

881
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 1: Do you call me? Baby? No? Why am I calling you?

882
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 2: Baby? I said, Oh, you said, maybe he did, Babe,

883
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 2: baby he did?

884
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: I'm like, what baby, baby? Baby? Baby gone down? Baby?

885
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so sorry my mistake. No, no, it's good, it's good.

886
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: Please li liven't use I tripped over my words.

887
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 2: For sure.

888
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 1: Basically, maybe he did, but then it just didn't get saved,

889
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: it didn't get.

890
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 3: No, maybe it didn't get released. Oh baby got recorded.

891
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 3: It's a piece of information that hasn't through release to

892
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 3: the public. So that they release that painting, they're releasing

893
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 3: a piece of information which at this point we're all

894
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 3: we're always like released, release, just release more information.

895
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 2: Please, yeah, baby, please baby, please please baby, Right though,

896
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 2: that's through the name of it.

897
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 3: One another name, because of course there's another name that

898
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 3: keeps popping up. Creeps abound, they sure do. The name

899
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,760
Speaker 3: of this person is Derek Percy. He's considered a suspect

900
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,479
Speaker 3: in the disappearance of the Beaumont children, Oh yeah, because

901
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 3: that had just happened a year later, as well as

902
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 3: other disappearances and murders of children in Australia throughout the sixties.

903
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 3: In nineteen sixty nine, four years after the wand of

904
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 3: Beach murders, he abducted and murdered a thirteen year old

905
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 3: girl named Yvonne Touhey and was found not guilty for

906
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 3: reasons of insanity. He spent the rest of his life

907
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 3: in a psychiatric hospital and in twenty thirteen without ever

908
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 3: admitting to any other murders, but a lot of people

909
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 3: suspect him for the Beaumont Children's disappearance. Yvonne's murder had

910
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 3: been in Melbourne, where Percy was stationed with the Navy,

911
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 3: and he was from the state of Victoria and not

912
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 3: very close to Sydney, but it's unclear if he would

913
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 3: have been in Sydney at the time of the Wanda

914
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 3: Beach murders. But it's not been ruled out. But it's

915
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 3: just again one of those things where like people don't

916
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 3: want to face that there's multiple child killers. It's not

917
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 3: you know, yes, it's just he's just another sick.

918
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that has this insane rap sheet but is

919
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 1: free to wander it, wander the beach anytime he so chooses. Right.

920
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 3: So this past January was the sixtieth anniversary of Marianne

921
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 3: and Christine's murders. The twenty thousand Australian dollar awards still stands,

922
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 3: but Hans Schmidt, Marianne's little brother, wishes the amount would

923
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 3: increase so that perhaps a family member of the killer

924
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 3: would come forward. You know, yeah, money talks, He says, Quote,

925
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 3: we sit at one of the most horrific murders in

926
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 3: the country and we're still at twenty thousand dollars. Yeah,

927
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 3: it's a pittance because of that lack of increase, you know,

928
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 3: I mean in what world.

929
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'd think that there are people who could make

930
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: that change. It's like, don't they fundraise for like the

931
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: Police Softball Association.

932
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 3: Right of his big sister who took him to the

933
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 3: beach sixty years ago. He says, quote, it would have

934
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 3: been nice if she were still around. She would be

935
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 3: seventy five now.

936
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:29,240
Speaker 2: Quote.

937
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 3: And that is the story of one of Australia's most

938
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 3: haunting cold cases, the murders of Christine Shryck and mary

939
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 3: Anne Schmidt at Wanda Beach.

940
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 1: Wow. That was great. I mean that was horrifying and

941
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: it is really upsetting. But then also as we talk

942
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: about stuff like this, and then it just like, well,

943
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: if they do make these changes and we now have

944
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: the science, like, couldn't this be something they put AI

945
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: toward instead of like it needs to write movies. Couldn't

946
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 1: it be something like cold case patterns? Yeah, old evidence

947
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: processing stuff.

948
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 3: Interesting, you know, I mean it's not too late, as

949
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,479
Speaker 3: we now know. You know, so many of these cold

950
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 3: cases are being solved, and they just they need answers.

951
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, or like some rich Australian Yeah, get

952
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: it going.

953
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 2: Come on, Uh, it's a rich Australian.

954
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: Ryan Seacrest. This whole time, he's been covering up the

955
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: most insane accent. Oh my god.

956
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 2: Well, thank you to rich and not rich Australians for

957
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 2: listening to.

958
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: Yes, oh well, great job, by the way, that was

959
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: really that was really amazing. I mean this really is

960
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: the promise of your stories I know, is that then

961
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: there will be a news report someday.

962
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 3: That's like there have been some I just haven't talked

963
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 3: about them, but maybe we need to give those updates you.

964
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: Maybe that would be a good solo episode as you

965
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: just do all Cold case recaps.

966
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 2: Yeah and there's yeah, yeah, or like okay, thank you, no,

967
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 2: thank you.

968
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: I need that. I need it more.

969
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 3: Then if you want it, what if you recap all

970
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 3: my old stories You're like, here's where you were wrong

971
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 3: and another day, remember how you speculate it?

972
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 1: Well, you were on AI helped me write this.

973
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 3: Hi everyone, welcome to Honking Horays presented by Hyundai.

974
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: That's right, it's our usual Horay segment, but we're doing

975
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: it in a car because this is where we can

976
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: really be ourselves. Really do you want to go first?

977
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: This first one is from an email and the subject

978
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: line is hooray law school graduation, submitting a hooray for

979
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: the pod. I started listening to the podcast my junior

980
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 1: year of high school and next week is my last

981
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: day of law school. The pod has been there through

982
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: every final season, every mental health walk break, and every

983
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: commute to class. It's been a long road, but in

984
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 1: a few short months, I'll be an attorney. And if

985
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: it hadn't been this podcast back in high school piquing

986
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 1: my interest in the justice system, what at a very

987
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: young age, Who knows if I would have chosen this

988
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: career path. Thanks for every great show and much needed laugh.

989
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: Now stay sexy and pass the bar exam, Megan, I

990
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: mean flying colors. I'm sure, geez, that's amazing. Great job, Megan, Congratulations, Congratulations.

991
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: This is on Instagram. I have a hooray.

992
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,879
Speaker 2: After living in a city that has whipped.

993
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 3: Me left right up and down, I'm following my dream

994
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 3: of leaving the country and moving to Berlin to au

995
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 3: pair for a beautiful, sweet family, Oh Berlin. As an

996
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 3: eighteen year old three year long Murderino, I love you

997
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 3: guys and have had you in my ears through thick

998
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 3: and thin. Thank you for everything you've done for our

999
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 3: community and me.

1000
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 1: Without even knowing. Smiley face, smiley face. EJ Murray EJ

1001
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 1: started listening when they were fifteen years old. Oh my God,

1002
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: precious soft wors Okay, this is for more email. It

1003
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: just says my horay is that at the end of

1004
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: this month, me and my face family are selling our

1005
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: house in the town I was born and raised in

1006
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: and leaving for a fresh start in a new state

1007
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 1: that my husband and I have always dreamed of living in.

1008
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 1: Let this serve as a reminder that it's never too

1009
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: late for a big change in life. Don't listen to

1010
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 1: the negativity you get from others, and trust your gut.

1011
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 1: Do the things in life that make you happy. Sam.

1012
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: And it's just signed Sam soon to be from Maine.

1013
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 3: Oh I love it, I know, right sweet? Okay, this

1014
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 3: one says, hey gang. Today was the last day at

1015
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 3: my job before heading.

1016
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: Off to medical school.

1017
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 3: Since graduating college, I've been working in endoscopy, where I

1018
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 3: assist in GI and pulmonary procedures using endoscopes.

1019
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: Brag brag.

1020
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 3: You ladies have accompanied me throughout my undergraduate career and

1021
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 3: this job, especially while I'm cleaning the scopes after procedures.

1022
00:47:55,200 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 3: Oh well, We've been a lot of places. In lots

1023
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 3: of places, I've learned so much about the importance of

1024
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 3: screening medicine and the value of kindness, compassion, and empathy

1025
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 3: in medical care.

1026
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: I bet medical school is.

1027
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 3: The first step towards me achieving the ultimate dream of

1028
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 3: becoming an obg y N, where I will fight the

1029
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 3: good fight for women's reproductive rights from the inside out.

1030
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: Amazing women deserve.

1031
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 3: Access to quality and comprehensive health care. Hooray for women

1032
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 3: in STEM and hooray for fighting fascism. Any way, you

1033
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,760
Speaker 3: can stay sexy and get your screening colonoscopy.

1034
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 1: Delaney K. Delaney. So much good advice, so many good

1035
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,839
Speaker 1: points made in that email. Great job, We're very proud

1036
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: of you. Are cleaning the and dyscopy. What is it called?

1037
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: How do you say? Don't don't repeat it? The subject

1038
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 1: line of this is hooray, I just adopted twenty thousand

1039
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 1: beautiful babies. Okay, ready, it just starts. I got to

1040
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:56,720
Speaker 1: fulfill a literal, lifelong dream. Hooray. I started keeping bees.

1041
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: That's my dream too. From the time I was a

1042
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: little larva myself, I've been fascinated by bees. I watched documentaries,

1043
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: I took classes, I even joined the local beekeeping guild.

1044
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: You should do that, I should, But I was never

1045
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,839
Speaker 1: able to acquire my own hive for one reason or another.

1046
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: You know how life, those hives can't acquire a hive.

1047
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: One night, after a colleague introduced me to his wife,

1048
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: she casually mentioned that she's a hobby beekeeper. With too

1049
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: many hives people in my life. I literally asked Vince

1050
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: for a bee hive for my birthday this year. Poor man.

1051
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 1: He's like, God, no, he said, see what he can do.

1052
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: He's like, at least it's not another cat, right, Long

1053
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 1: story short. She and I have become friends, like friend

1054
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: with the hives. He's using her for bees. She is

1055
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: teaching me everything she knows about bees and has even

1056
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 1: given me my own little hive to look after. Helping

1057
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 1: these incredible little pollinators thrive. Brings me more joy than

1058
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: I can express in words. I feel this is like

1059
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: a person who has found their niche in life. It's

1060
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: beautiful of it. I feel totally at home in the

1061
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,439
Speaker 1: b yard and I'm my god, I want that so bad.

1062
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 1: I'm like picturing it. It's like your own area of

1063
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 1: the yard with just for bees and don't let the

1064
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: children run through there. And I'm so grateful I have

1065
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: a new friend that was willing to share her knowledge

1066
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,800
Speaker 1: with me. Hooray for drinking too many beers with colleagues

1067
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: and getting to live out your dream of becoming a

1068
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: bee babe. Thank you for everything you do. Heart.

1069
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, I'm exciting to you.

1070
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: You've just inspired Georgia beads. Beads, I have one more.

1071
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 3: Okay, Hey, guys, I'm so happy horays are back, and

1072
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 3: I'm even happier to say I have one of my own.

1073
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 3: I recently completed my first and probably only half marathon.

1074
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: Ooh.

1075
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 3: I had planned for you to be in my ears

1076
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 3: the whole time, as you got me through so many

1077
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 3: training runs, but of course I lost my headphones right

1078
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 3: before the race. You imagine I quit, So I ended

1079
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 3: up doing the whole thing, powered by sheer will, cheering

1080
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 3: and people's footsteps and breathing.

1081
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 1: Wow. It definitely sucked at times, but I did it.

1082
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 3: I had fun, hit the time I wanted, got to

1083
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,280
Speaker 3: run the lap around the Indy five hundred track.

1084
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:06,800
Speaker 1: Wow.

1085
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 3: And honestly, why not run a half marathon at twenty

1086
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 3: years old? When else am I going to do it?

1087
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 1: Hell? Yeah, sister, not at forty four?

1088
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 3: Hate you anyway anyway, Thanks for being a right Hooray

1089
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 3: for doing hard things or just anything at this point.

1090
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 2: Yes, you sure, closs GGM Reese.

1091
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:27,479
Speaker 1: Ree, congratulations on your twelve points. Whatever. My I feel

1092
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: like the quiet part would be the hardest part for me.

1093
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 2: That would be rough in the running, that would be a.

1094
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: Real there's no way, no, just your thoughts. It's still

1095
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: twelve miles. But we're really proud we are, and I

1096
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 1: think that's it. Look for our honking and horays. Thank

1097
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: you Hyundai for sponsoring this wonderful segment we're doing. We

1098
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,240
Speaker 1: appreciate you. Thanks for listening, Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

1099
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 1: Good one, good bye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

1100
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: This has been an exactly right production.

1101
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 2: Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

1102
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: Our editor is Aristotle os Vedo. This episode was mixed

1103
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: by Leona Squalacci. Our researchers are Maaron McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

1104
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,760
Speaker 3: Email your homecounts to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.

1105
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,280
Speaker 1: Follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.

1106
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 3: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1107
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 3: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

1108
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 1: And now you can watch us on exactly right's YouTube page.

1109
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 1: While you're there, please like and subscribe. Good byebye