Speaker 1: You are listening to reparation production of my heart ratio. Yo, Yo,
Speaker 1: this is ship to bring Bushwick. I back told you
Speaker 1: all these rappers on some bushit. I rack five stacks
Speaker 1: as you get devoured by my fly trap them so dope.
Speaker 1: You can find crack on in my spine tap. Beyond that,
Speaker 1: I'm like the candle to raw, first person talking slick
Speaker 1: catch a mandible claw package of raw that wasn't spitting enough,
Speaker 1: ripping the pump since pippick and dunk, just the rhythmless pump.
Speaker 1: Still I'm spitting like a fully automatic handle at me, bastard,
Speaker 1: A rapidly wine static, hardest on the planet, harder than Grant.
Speaker 1: I don't want synthetic smoking the organic he it was.
Speaker 1: I am dope knife. We are waiting on reparations. I'm
Speaker 1: hot wolf. What's good. I've been doing mad interviews, yo,
Speaker 1: like I'm I've got this song. I've been telling you
Speaker 1: about what's coming out on Friday and called so nine
Speaker 1: one two, and I'm really excited about it. It's like
Speaker 1: my Savannah hometown song. So in preparation, I have been
Speaker 1: doing a lot of interviews. Um. I did podcast called
Speaker 1: the Riff the other night, and I did my homie
Speaker 1: Tayammu Denku, who's a rapper from uh Milwaukee. I did
Speaker 1: his podcast The Taking, a part of Passion Podcast. It's
Speaker 1: been it's been fun. Yeah. I just I think I
Speaker 1: think I'm starting to get kind of like an interview
Speaker 1: character down intact. So it's how similar to to your
Speaker 1: rap character like on stage. I mean, I feel like
Speaker 1: you're a pretty much the same person, but you know,
Speaker 1: I think it's it's a yeah, I think I think
Speaker 1: my interview When I say interview character, I guess I
Speaker 1: just mean, you know, I feel like I feel like
Speaker 1: a lot more open when I'm asking people questions, but
Speaker 1: when I'm getting interviewed, I feel like I've I've been
Speaker 1: kind of stiff in the past, but now I'm just
Speaker 1: opening up and telling, you know, jokes that I tell
Speaker 1: when I have regular conversations with people, so I feel
Speaker 1: that they feel they went well. In any event, I
Speaker 1: just like got off of an hour long conversation about
Speaker 1: like my bio and stuff like that. So I'm feeling
Speaker 1: really loosey goosey. So you're loosened up. Yeah, Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm loose. I'm ready to talk. I'd already talking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not that ship. So today we're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: the legal concept of self defense, which is being invoked
Speaker 1: in several um high profile trials right now. Um. The
Speaker 1: McMichael family has claimed self defense in the murder case
Speaker 1: of Ahmad are Very, which is taking place in South
Speaker 1: Georgia this week. Um Uh. Kylin Rittenhouse also in folk
Speaker 1: self defense for the killing of two BLM protesters in Kenosha,
Speaker 1: Wisconsin last summer. Doing his trial that has been going
Speaker 1: on is actually wrapping up this week. But when are
Speaker 1: black people allowed to evoke self defense? If at all?
Speaker 1: This week we'll discuss highlights from both trials. Highlights from
Speaker 1: this week. We'll discuss highlights from both trials, their implications,
Speaker 1: as well as some lesser known legal cases of self
Speaker 1: defense in the world of hip hop. Just to recap,
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts generally on the Kyle Rittenhouse trial.
Speaker 1: Last time that we talked about the Kyle Rittenhouse trial
Speaker 1: directly on this show, I think it had to have
Speaker 1: been a year ago at this point, probably, I mean,
Speaker 1: probably right after it happened, Yeah, exactly, like maybe even
Speaker 1: if so, I mean the last time that we delved
Speaker 1: into this case, I mean they still thought that a
Speaker 1: flaming object was thrown at him, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: I think general thoughts are now Yeah, I think he
Speaker 1: came up last of October one of last year, is um,
Speaker 1: when we had our guns episode. I'll be talking a
Speaker 1: little bit about Kyle Rittenhouse. Um. I think I mean.
Speaker 1: The most the UCH year headlines I guess that have
Speaker 1: drawn my eye over the course of this trial have
Speaker 1: pertained to the improprieties of the judge who was very
Speaker 1: clearly skewed in favor of written House, anything from allowing
Speaker 1: him to draw the pieces of paper on which were
Speaker 1: written the juror's name, to determine who would actually partake
Speaker 1: in the like verdict deciding proceedings. I'm sure there's a
Speaker 1: technical term, but that I don't care. Well. That was
Speaker 1: the lawyer that was mean. That was also like egregious. Um.
Speaker 1: The judge had the jury clap for one of the
Speaker 1: UH witnesses for the defense because he was a veteran
Speaker 1: and it was veteran's day. Um. And going all the
Speaker 1: way back to when they were deciding what, um, what
Speaker 1: evidence was or what you know, what was allowed in
Speaker 1: the courtroom, um, declaring that the people written House killed. Um,
Speaker 1: we're not allowed to be called victims, but we're allowed
Speaker 1: to be called writers and rioters and looters if the
Speaker 1: defense could present evidence that that was true. So much
Speaker 1: the judges turned this case into a farce pretty much effectively.
Speaker 1: And I mean, the thing is, the thing that makes
Speaker 1: it so striking is that the Amad are very cases
Speaker 1: going on simultaneously, so which I have heard conspiracy theories
Speaker 1: that that is on purpose. Because most people are talking
Speaker 1: about the Written House trial. Um, the Ahmad Aubrey trial
Speaker 1: is not receiving the same level of public scrutiny, and
Speaker 1: that will make it if the McMichaels and their friend
Speaker 1: get off. Um, sorry I got spooked because Paul just
Speaker 1: came out of nowhere. If the McMichaels and their friends
Speaker 1: get off, then there won't be as much holla baloo
Speaker 1: because people will not have noticed because they wouldn't weren't
Speaker 1: following it. I mean, I think, I I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's coordinated, but I think I might
Speaker 1: have to play a little bit of Devil's advocate just
Speaker 1: at that point, not that you were making that point,
Speaker 1: but the Kyle Rittenhouse case is more ambiguous and nuanced,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of more moving pieces in it,
Speaker 1: which is why I think it's a bigger story just
Speaker 1: just from like a pure like wet drives ratings and
Speaker 1: wit drives eyeballs to click on stuff. Something that's more
Speaker 1: you know, just kind of dark and macaw, but something
Speaker 1: that seems like it's more of a coin toss is
Speaker 1: gonna be more exciting for people to consume. Like as
Speaker 1: a news story, I think with with the people with
Speaker 1: what what people do know about the ahmad are very case,
Speaker 1: I mean, and who knows. People may be shocked, some
Speaker 1: people may be shocked if those guys get off, but
Speaker 1: I think everyone is more or less expecting those guys
Speaker 1: to go down. We both and therefore I think that's
Speaker 1: why it's it might not be, but you know, you know,
Speaker 1: you never know. I mean, you know the Kyle rittenhouse cases,
Speaker 1: like a young white kid, that's you know, maybe that's
Speaker 1: that's what's attracting the eyeballs. But I don't know. Um.
Speaker 1: I do know that that striking comparison is going to
Speaker 1: make it that if those two outcomes of the outcomes
Speaker 1: that at least I expect they're gonna happen, which is
Speaker 1: that Rittenhouse walks and the McMichaels go down. I think
Speaker 1: that it's gonna I don't know it's gonna it's gonna
Speaker 1: cause like a, I don't even know what it's gonna cause.
Speaker 1: But I just know there's not going to really be
Speaker 1: any sort of way that you can look at the
Speaker 1: Written House trial coming out of that and think that
Speaker 1: it just isn't you know, tarred with like shenanigans and
Speaker 1: fuck are you because of what the judges doing effectively.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we'll get into all that and more after
Speaker 1: the jump. Okay, we're back, And for those who have
Speaker 1: not been obsessively watching the news over the last two weeks,
Speaker 1: closing arguments were heard Monday for the murder trial co
Speaker 1: Written House, um, who, at seventeen years old on August
Speaker 1: cross state lines with an illegal firearm to take the
Speaker 1: streets of Kenosha, Wisconsin, during the protest against the shooting
Speaker 1: of Jacob Blake by police officer days earlier. Using an
Speaker 1: A R fifteen type rifle, he killed Joseph Rosenbaum Pty six,
Speaker 1: Anthony Hubert, and wounded Gauge Growth Crews twenty seven during
Speaker 1: the street demonstrations. Written House is now eighteen, and it's
Speaker 1: been charged with five felony accounts and a misdemeanors weapons
Speaker 1: charge that I think has subsequently been dropped. There's like
Speaker 1: a loophole, dadda. But the fellow needs include one count
Speaker 1: of first degree reckless homicide, two counts of first degree
Speaker 1: recklessly in endangering safety, and two counts of first degree
Speaker 1: intentional homicide, saying that he on purpose tried to kill
Speaker 1: or no did kill um Ebony Huber and Joseph Rosenbaum
Speaker 1: um So if convicted of the homicide chargers. If convicted
Speaker 1: of the homicide charges, Written House will spend the rest
Speaker 1: of his life in prison. Now a. Rittenhouse claimed that
Speaker 1: he was there as a medic to protect stores from looters.
Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, the little punk as bitch medic did not
Speaker 1: attempt to render any aid to the people he claims
Speaker 1: he shot in self defense. The video presented in the
Speaker 1: trials shows the bystanders rendering aid to Rose Bomb after
Speaker 1: he was shot in the head by Rittenhouse. He then
Speaker 1: ran away after he shot Grosscroots in the arm. A
Speaker 1: live stream captures rose Roots yelling for medic, but the
Speaker 1: clip shows written House walking away from the scene as
Speaker 1: an armored vehicle drives by him, and people nearby yell
Speaker 1: he shot them. At the trial, he also admitted that
Speaker 1: he falsely claimed to be a certified e m T
Speaker 1: the night of the shooting, but his legal team is
Speaker 1: claiming self defense. UM. His lawyer John Pierce stated in
Speaker 1: a video posted Twitter last year, if this is not
Speaker 1: self defense for Kyle written House under these circumstances, then
Speaker 1: no one can protect themselves, no one can protect their family,
Speaker 1: and no one can protect their country. Um, which I
Speaker 1: just think has so many applications to it. Okay, Like
Speaker 1: we all know that's that it's like typical fucking n
Speaker 1: r A gun jargon talk, so we all know that's bullshit.
Speaker 1: The thing that I kind of want to like think
Speaker 1: about it is like I think that the wrong argument
Speaker 1: to have about the Kyle Written or not even the
Speaker 1: wrong argument now because the cases about self defense, But
Speaker 1: in terms of what we want to point out, I
Speaker 1: think we should be attacking more the idea of why
Speaker 1: he was there first place, you know, and and and
Speaker 1: and because at the end of the day, somebody did
Speaker 1: you know, at the end of the day, people did
Speaker 1: come at him. So it's like, even though I think
Speaker 1: that he's guilty or whatever. I think we can all
Speaker 1: be adults. We can all understand that, you know, this
Speaker 1: jury judge fucking around Wisconsin, one black juror all that ship,
Speaker 1: we can pretty much guess that he's going to get off, right, So, like,
Speaker 1: why I didn't I don't even understand if there's any
Speaker 1: like even like legal direction that you can go. But
Speaker 1: I just don't understand, like why that wasn't uh focus
Speaker 1: of the cases? Like why is the fucking seventeen year
Speaker 1: old run walking around with the gun? Why is he
Speaker 1: going into like a crowd of people with a gun?
Speaker 1: What I think is interesting about this quote from UM
Speaker 1: John Pierce as he says, no one can protect themselves,
Speaker 1: no one can protect their family. And when I think
Speaker 1: about the the phrase black lives matter in this context, UM,
Speaker 1: and you know, particularly in in in the context of
Speaker 1: some of the cases we'll look out later, UM that
Speaker 1: you if you are no one to this country, then no,
Speaker 1: you cannot protect yourself. If this country regards you as
Speaker 1: it nobody, No you cannot connect to protect your family.
Speaker 1: And that's effectively what oftentimes is the case for black people. UM.
Speaker 1: Think about, for example, in the case of Brianna Taylor, um,
Speaker 1: whose you know, had his boyfriend had their house broken
Speaker 1: into by unannounced intruders who happened to be playing close
Speaker 1: police officers, and despite being a license gun owner who
Speaker 1: just thought someone was breaking in and shot at them.
Speaker 1: Walker was charged with attempted murder of a police officer
Speaker 1: because his life. I mean, like, you know, we say
Speaker 1: Brianna Taylor's name, but his life didn't matter either. He
Speaker 1: was no one. So no, he could not protect his
Speaker 1: family me and no, he could not protect his home. Um,
Speaker 1: because I feel like it's like what he's kind of
Speaker 1: that aspect of what he's saying, it kind of rings true.
Speaker 1: It's like, but not in the way he needs and
Speaker 1: that it has different implications for like who actually has
Speaker 1: allowed self defense in the country. Now, the thing about
Speaker 1: the Written House case, do you do you think that
Speaker 1: the Written House case is more of an issue of
Speaker 1: race and less of an issue of politics. I think
Speaker 1: it is more an issue of politics, um, because I mean,
Speaker 1: some people are under the impression that Kyle Rittenhouse went
Speaker 1: out and shot a bunch of black people and he
Speaker 1: didn't know he did not. But if you are, if
Speaker 1: you are in defensive black lives. If you are, you know,
Speaker 1: UM antagonistic to white supremacy. UM, you are all of
Speaker 1: the second class citizen, your life doesn't matter either. That's
Speaker 1: why I think so many UM Republicans state legislatures have
Speaker 1: tried to or successfully advanced legislation to pretty much legal
Speaker 1: is UM vehicular homicide in the case of protesters blocking
Speaker 1: the streets and acts of civil disobedience, Like if you
Speaker 1: side with these folks that we have deemed disposable, you're
Speaker 1: disposable too. Yeah, But I mean, I guess I guess
Speaker 1: that's yeah, it's right, because I just I don't know,
Speaker 1: is that is that like a political or is that
Speaker 1: is that like a or amongst racialized because like something
Speaker 1: something in me tells me that if Kyle Rittenhouse was
Speaker 1: like a Candice Owens type Trump supporter, that the right
Speaker 1: would still be galvanizing around them in in the sense
Speaker 1: of like you killed our enemy, are perceived enemies, so
Speaker 1: we love you, h And I think, yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: like that. I feel like that's the you know, I
Speaker 1: feel like the Kyle Rittenhouse case has more of a
Speaker 1: connection with the killing of what was his name, Michael Hino. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in Portland's you know, it feels it feels like a
Speaker 1: very politically motivated situation. You know, the judge, the judge,
Speaker 1: the fence lawyers, they feel like it's it feels like
Speaker 1: it's part of like a Maga movement thing. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: know that makes sense that that's that's the that's the
Speaker 1: aspect of it that's got me scared because it's like
Speaker 1: you know, Kyle Rittenhouse getting or getting you know, if
Speaker 1: if he's found not guilty, this is gonna just like
Speaker 1: with the you know, running over protest things. This is
Speaker 1: like the new template for how to deal with these
Speaker 1: things now. I mean, I think what you're getting at
Speaker 1: reminds me a lot of what Michelle Alexander said the
Speaker 1: New Jim Crow about the collateral damage of the prison
Speaker 1: industrial complex and mass incarceration. That effectively, if continued subjugation
Speaker 1: of people of color requires sweeping some working class whites
Speaker 1: up into the same web, then fine, that that collateral
Speaker 1: damage is totally acceptable because US white supremacy is so
Speaker 1: critical to uphold. And so I see a parallel here
Speaker 1: and that I think, yes, what you're saying about it
Speaker 1: being political left and right, etcetera um is salient. The
Speaker 1: racial aspect isn't like irrelevant. I just yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: like this. It's one of the end the criminal justice
Speaker 1: system saying like if yeah, if you come in defensive
Speaker 1: black lives, you are also disposable. If you're a black person,
Speaker 1: you are disposable if you are fighting fascism like Michael
Speaker 1: reinhold um, which adherently means standing up for like marginalized peoples,
Speaker 1: even if you weren't necessarily in um I don't know,
Speaker 1: like physically defending someone's life, but ideologically are aligned with
Speaker 1: that struggle, you are disposable. We will shoot you dead
Speaker 1: in the street without even holding a trial. And I trump,
Speaker 1: then please kill as many people as you can, right,
Speaker 1: which I think is the broader um will be the
Speaker 1: broader impact of what happened happens in this trial is
Speaker 1: like do like our you know, fascist hit right wing
Speaker 1: people emboldened to defend their country by which they mean
Speaker 1: by which they mean just gunned down leftist if they
Speaker 1: all feel threatened by them, Oh, I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: think that that's even up in question. The next whether
Speaker 1: whether it's even it might even be like outside of
Speaker 1: that courtroom, but the next time that there's like a
Speaker 1: big protest and the next time that it has to
Speaker 1: do with like some left right Black Lives Matter or
Speaker 1: something like that, there's gonna be a lot of proud boys,
Speaker 1: like they're with guns ready to instigate some ship. Yep, yeah,
Speaker 1: so we shall see. But um, getting back to some
Speaker 1: of the details of the trial, claims, the self defense
Speaker 1: abound on both sides. In a sense, both written House
Speaker 1: and Gross Grows, the lone survivor of the shootings are
Speaker 1: claiming to have defended themselves on trial. When he was
Speaker 1: up on the stand, written House that he reacted to
Speaker 1: seeing Grosscots Gross creates handgun though he had already shot
Speaker 1: and killed two people. Gross Crews explained at the court
Speaker 1: and he had pulled out the handcome handgun because he
Speaker 1: thought that Rittenhouse was an active shooter. So on both
Speaker 1: sides are talking about defending themselves or defending other people.
Speaker 1: Rittenhouse claims that the shooting happened because he was cornered
Speaker 1: by the first the first shoot shooting, the first shooting, Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: Rittenhouse claims the first shooting happened because he was cornered
Speaker 1: by several protesters, one of whom had a gun. One
Speaker 1: of his victims after new Hubert pursued him after after
Speaker 1: the first shooting and struck Written House in the head
Speaker 1: and neck with the skateboard before being shot. During his
Speaker 1: tearful testimony, Written House claimed one of the victims could
Speaker 1: have run away instead of trying to take his gun.
Speaker 1: By that logic, if he had felt his life was
Speaker 1: endangered by the unarmed people he'd gotted down, couldn't he
Speaker 1: have just flip? Yeah? And so like it does get
Speaker 1: sort of nebulous where it's like he felt threatened because
Speaker 1: he was cornered by self a protesters, one of whom
Speaker 1: did have a gun. Um, the person he shot was unarmed,
Speaker 1: but he felt, you know, he felt scared because he
Speaker 1: was being closed on on all sides. And then you know,
Speaker 1: you've got Anthony Huber who was killed, who could arguably,
Speaker 1: you know, Written House had a gun. So he's acted
Speaker 1: in self defense by hitting him in the head and
Speaker 1: neck of the skateboard. But a Rittenhouse, you know, is
Speaker 1: claiming that he shot him because he was hitting him
Speaker 1: in the head for the skateboard. Um, and Georgie just
Speaker 1: goes back and forth and trying to determine who legally
Speaker 1: is allowed to defend themselves. The thing that I just
Speaker 1: I need to just like completely focus on this case
Speaker 1: because I keep my mind keeps wondering to what is
Speaker 1: going to happen next time, which then in my head,
Speaker 1: is making this one not seem as bad as it
Speaker 1: could have been, because I do think that the next guy,
Speaker 1: if like if the next the next Kyle Rittenhouse wanna be,
Speaker 1: is like struck with the skateboard, They're just gonna start
Speaker 1: emptying off shells into the crowd, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So it's like I guess like there's a part of
Speaker 1: me that's like, well, he didn't do that. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is like the little expectations. And yeah,
Speaker 1: the verdict is expected this week, perhaps even before the
Speaker 1: show airs, and as we you know, made clear up
Speaker 1: to this point where I'm britty sure he's gonna get off.
Speaker 1: I mean, if they're they're taking away that gun charge,
Speaker 1: you know, then yeah, I don't see him facing any
Speaker 1: consequences for this unfortunately, So we shall see. Maybe this
Speaker 1: will air the same day that the verdict is announced,
Speaker 1: and that will put a very interesting shading on this
Speaker 1: whole episode that you were listening to. Um, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's move on to look at a little this, a
Speaker 1: little bit of this. Um, we got Travis, Michael and
Speaker 1: Greg with Michael, so they armed themselves and sped after
Speaker 1: a mod areby who was out jogging because they thought
Speaker 1: he was a burglar. I wonder why. And they said
Speaker 1: they wanted to catch him and hold him, you know,
Speaker 1: perform citizens to rest until the police arrived. UM. When
Speaker 1: Aubrey turned and fought during the chase, UM, Travis mc
Speaker 1: michael says that he shot him in self defense, so
Speaker 1: they chased him down, and when he defended himself by
Speaker 1: allegedly attempting to grab the gun away from Travis with Michael,
Speaker 1: Travis shot him. But now Travis is they're saying that
Speaker 1: they were defending themselves against the man they were Jason
Speaker 1: that was unarmed. I mean, it's it's like literally the
Speaker 1: Trayvon Martin situation. Likely James is somebody down and when
Speaker 1: they ch somebody, you start a fight, you getting you're
Speaker 1: getting cooked in the fight, so you you have a gun,
Speaker 1: so then you shoot them. I feel like you're what
Speaker 1: you said earlier is true, that this is who is
Speaker 1: the aggressor in the situation is far more clear cut
Speaker 1: that we will see ultimately what the jerry has to say.
Speaker 1: And and that's all. That's all I meant is just
Speaker 1: like if if the jury, like we I mean, they've
Speaker 1: already caught the original d A and Fuckory with this case,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So it's like all I
Speaker 1: mean is if the jury should come back with a
Speaker 1: bullshit verdict about this, I think from almost you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think like a general consensus will be like,
Speaker 1: all right, that was Fuckory. We identified that as fackory.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. Yeah, Whereas with the Kyle
Speaker 1: Rittenhouse case, you know, like I said, I think there's
Speaker 1: there's definitely people who are not in the tank for
Speaker 1: Mega or Kyle Rittenhouse who look at the situation was
Speaker 1: like I mean, you know, somebody did like try to
Speaker 1: hit him, or somebody did corner or whatever. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's people. It's just it's a lot easier for people
Speaker 1: to rationalize the Kyle Rittenhouse sit you nation. I guess
Speaker 1: then the amount of Aubrey case, which really seems you
Speaker 1: know again, it like really seems like you know, some
Speaker 1: nine team. Like when I first heard this story was like,
Speaker 1: oh man, this is some nineteen fifties, you know, like
Speaker 1: civil civil rights eraror story that you hear about some
Speaker 1: fucking southern yahoo's chasing down a black kiddens. Well yeah,
Speaker 1: so okay, So get this decided the citizens the rest law,
Speaker 1: which itself was approved in eighteen sixty three to round
Speaker 1: up escaped slaves and was later used to justify the
Speaker 1: lynching of black people. So putalizing that as a defense
Speaker 1: for why they pursued an attacked armory, are pursued an
Speaker 1: attacked aubrey, even if they had it killed him, it
Speaker 1: was fucked up. They were using it for exactly what
Speaker 1: it was meant for rounding up black people. Um, this
Speaker 1: is the state law that was on the books at
Speaker 1: the time. A private person may arrest an offender if
Speaker 1: the offense is committed in his presence or within his
Speaker 1: immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony, and the
Speaker 1: offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person
Speaker 1: may arrest them upon reasonable and probable grounds with suspicions.
Speaker 1: Why do you even determine that? So, I mean, let's
Speaker 1: get at the committed in his presence, which it wasn't
Speaker 1: or within his immediate knowledge. He didn't like he wasn't
Speaker 1: which it wasn't um anyway, the tape didn't see the tape.
Speaker 1: He had heard about burglaries happening in the area, but
Speaker 1: there was no like evidence that it was arevery other
Speaker 1: than I guess, you know, just running while black was
Speaker 1: enough for them. Anyway. The law was appealed, repealed last year,
Speaker 1: effectively repealed by Governor Bryant Kemp. Oh no, it's earlier
Speaker 1: this year actually, um partially in response to Areby's killing.
Speaker 1: But even though the repeal law has taken effect, the
Speaker 1: defense is still able to cite this old racist law
Speaker 1: since it was in effect at the time of Aarbury slang,
Speaker 1: so you know, they were invoking it at the time
Speaker 1: is to justify their actions, and so they're still able
Speaker 1: to bring it up in court as something that would
Speaker 1: would have been legal in that moment. Oh man, I mean,
Speaker 1: and there's this crazy like saying that when Travis McMichael
Speaker 1: raised a shotgun, he was hoping to deescalate the situation,
Speaker 1: and that's what his defense attorney said. Put our return
Speaker 1: towards him swinging aggressively with his fists, like you know,
Speaker 1: it's fine, I just like if you're allowed to invoke
Speaker 1: self defense if you believe that you're going to be
Speaker 1: killed or like gravely injured. How the fuck is it
Speaker 1: commensurate to wave a shotgun at someone and just like
Speaker 1: trying to engage in fucking fisticuffs, Like because I mean,
Speaker 1: what if what if Ahmad had gotten the gun away
Speaker 1: from them? And that's their argument they're starting to make like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: we defended ourselves because if he had gotten the gun
Speaker 1: from us, he would have killed me. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: that's what But I mean, I guess that's that's the
Speaker 1: point that I'm making, Like what if he had gotten
Speaker 1: the gun off of them? And I think I wouldn't
Speaker 1: that be self defense? I think for whom, for a
Speaker 1: Mount Aubrey, wouldn't that have been self defense? Arguably? I
Speaker 1: mean in the Written House trial as well, he on
Speaker 1: the stand, I believe claimed that he shot because he
Speaker 1: was scared that he was going to have his gun
Speaker 1: taken away. But I was like, well, at least, but
Speaker 1: at least with Written House, like we you know, at
Speaker 1: least in his defense we actually can see like a
Speaker 1: tape of videotape of him on the ground, not shooting anybody,
Speaker 1: being kicked and hit and then he shoots somebody. So
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, whatever the problems are that
Speaker 1: at least that you can see you. I mean, in
Speaker 1: this case, with the amount of Aubrey, it's like you're
Speaker 1: watching the ship like he's the protagonist of the story.
Speaker 1: So it's like you want him to not die. And
Speaker 1: the only way that that can happen is if he
Speaker 1: defends himself and gets the gun off of those guys
Speaker 1: and kills that. Yeah, I guess I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: but anyway, so don't stop people. Just don't stop people.
Speaker 1: It does, yeah, drive as a. Michael as father, Gregory McMichael,
Speaker 1: and their pal William Murati Brian Jr. Are charged with
Speaker 1: malice and tell any murder um for the killing of
Speaker 1: Arevery in Brunswick, Georgia, February of last year. They also
Speaker 1: face charges for aggravated assault, false imprisonment and a criminal
Speaker 1: attempt to commit a felony, and they have all pleaded
Speaker 1: not guilty, though if convicted, each man because base life
Speaker 1: in prison without the possibility of parole. Now ultimately the jury,
Speaker 1: the jury will have to consider the moments before the
Speaker 1: shotgun blasts rang out and decide which man was the
Speaker 1: aggressor and therefore not legitimately acting in self defense. Yeah,
Speaker 1: given the eleven of the twelve jurors, and what is art,
Speaker 1: you know, I'll give it, give him this. It's majority
Speaker 1: white Glenn County, but it's black representative black man. So
Speaker 1: while it makes a lot, it's well, it does seem
Speaker 1: a lot more clear cut to us. How don't eleven
Speaker 1: of the twelve jurors or white in South Georgia. His
Speaker 1: defense lawyer is wild And I don't know if y'all
Speaker 1: have heard about this, but okay, so Ahmad Aubrey's family
Speaker 1: met with Al Sharpton right and the defense attorney was
Speaker 1: making a big deal about that because he was like, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I'll Sharpton is intimidating and blah blah blah the jury
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. Then Jesse Jackson came to visit, and
Speaker 1: like the defense attorney was straight up like, I think
Speaker 1: we've had enough black pastors ball nail situation here. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, oh my pastors. Yeah, so that's why we're
Speaker 1: dealing ones right now. Yeah, I mean it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: at least, like I said, it would be one thing.
Speaker 1: That's just the defense attorneys so the defense attorneys need
Speaker 1: to defend their clients ship like that, but you're gonna
Speaker 1: do whatever. Yeah, and let's not forget that the McMichael's
Speaker 1: and Brian were not even charged at first. In fact,
Speaker 1: in August, a grand jury indicted former Glen County District
Speaker 1: Attorney Jackie Johnson, accusing your showing favor and affection to
Speaker 1: one of the men now charged with Avery's killing and
Speaker 1: for directing police opport officers not to arrest another suspect.
Speaker 1: So pretty much like burying the tape that we have
Speaker 1: all now seen and saying like, oh no, the food
Speaker 1: to go. It's cool And I hate that I forget this,
Speaker 1: But did this not did this only come to light
Speaker 1: because I know what happened before, right, So, so Harbury
Speaker 1: was killed in February, and I think in March, right
Speaker 1: around when Brianna Taylor's killing kind of blew up. Also
Speaker 1: belieatedly is when the tape of yeah a mom getting
Speaker 1: shot came out and people started losing their ship. So yeah,
Speaker 1: like they were, they were. I mean, there's a there's
Speaker 1: a good chance that if George Floyd hadn't died, then
Speaker 1: we never would even this trial might not even be happening. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like that never even would have been a thing. Yeah
Speaker 1: speaking much so like um, you know, but going back
Speaker 1: to Brianna Taylor Walker was her boyfriend was charged immediately
Speaker 1: with attempted murder a police officer, and the chargers were
Speaker 1: only dropped after months of advocacy and national media attention,
Speaker 1: much like how I mean Michaels were only arrested and
Speaker 1: brought to trial because of huge public pressure. And so
Speaker 1: if we have to mount historic collective action just to
Speaker 1: get the justice system to do what it is supposed
Speaker 1: to do, what in the literal fuck is it for?
Speaker 1: Just think on that this wonder. We'll give you time consider. Okay,
Speaker 1: consider the killing of DeMarcus Carter in summerlad, Nevada in
Speaker 1: the spring of two thousand twelve. A resident of the
Speaker 1: majority white neighborhood suspective Carter of trying to break in
Speaker 1: and shot and killed Carter, who was unarmed. The killer
Speaker 1: claimed self defense, and his claim was never evaluated by
Speaker 1: a jury. Becuts. Police and prosecutors saw the claim of
Speaker 1: self defense as strong enough not to even warrant a charge.
Speaker 1: Killer told police that he saw Carter outside his back door.
Speaker 1: Believe Carter was breaking into his home, shot him dead,
Speaker 1: and unlike the death I prayed on martin Florida only
Speaker 1: a month earlier, Carter's death received very little media cups coverage,
Speaker 1: and none of the coverage raised any questions about the
Speaker 1: validity of the killer's self defense claim. And so I
Speaker 1: bring this up because I feel like this happens a
Speaker 1: lot more often than we realize. But like, just for sure,
Speaker 1: I mean, most of the names that we say today
Speaker 1: we're taken in the name of self defense, albeit by
Speaker 1: police officers. So Michael Brown, Eric Gardner, Davis, Jordan Davis,
Speaker 1: to mere Rice Walter Scott, Blando Castillo, On Sterling Baltham,
Speaker 1: Jean Stephan Clark, Lukawa McDonald, the list goes on and on. Now, um,
Speaker 1: there was a case recently where a man I do
Speaker 1: believe that this one was in Florida, but a guy
Speaker 1: got convicted of murder because he some teams broke into
Speaker 1: his house and he killed them. Investigators were able to
Speaker 1: go back and pretty much essentially see that he created
Speaker 1: what they described as like a deer trap. Pretty much,
Speaker 1: what the fuck for these kids to walk into state
Speaker 1: and everything. They've got recordings of him like talking to
Speaker 1: them like as they died, which is pretty much what
Speaker 1: stealed his fade is how they know that it was premeditated,
Speaker 1: but he was actually he tried to he tried to
Speaker 1: give self defense than your ground thing. But they were
Speaker 1: just able to see with his elaborate home alone style
Speaker 1: like Trapp, that it was premeditated. That's so insane. I
Speaker 1: heard her. I had heard about that story. I didn't
Speaker 1: realize that. God damn, it got even got even darker. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. Well, getting into a bit of thinking about like, yeah,
Speaker 1: prettily like with all made every case. Um. I read
Speaker 1: this article recently by Eddie Rolnick and the Cardozo Law Review,
Speaker 1: which snaps the relationships between residential segregation, violence, and criminal law.
Speaker 1: So like, effectively, in a sense, the McMichael's were enforcing
Speaker 1: what they believed to be. I mean, they were enforcing
Speaker 1: residential segregation. It's no longer a matter of redlining or
Speaker 1: you know, discriminatory home loans or restrictive covenant saying who
Speaker 1: can't live in certain houses? And all of that got
Speaker 1: wiped out, supposedly. So now, like there's a lot of
Speaker 1: cases like with DeMarcus what's his name, sorry, DeMarcus Carter
Speaker 1: like with a more degree where you have people you
Speaker 1: know invoking self defense to violently and you know in
Speaker 1: the force who is and who is not allowed to
Speaker 1: be in certain areas and roll Nick says, while the
Speaker 1: laws governing stranger self defense are facially raised, neutral self
Speaker 1: defense is assessed only according to whether defendant's fear is
Speaker 1: reasonable to the reviewing prosecutor, judge, and jury. Research on
Speaker 1: unconscious bias and cultural myths about criminality demonstrate that fear
Speaker 1: is racially contingent. One factor that can support both objective
Speaker 1: and objective assessments a threat is whether a person looks
Speaker 1: out of place, making a black person in a white
Speaker 1: neighborhood even more likely to be the object of fear.
Speaker 1: The last creative framework really legitimizes white fear of strangers
Speaker 1: who look racially out of place and condones violence based
Speaker 1: on that fear. The framework, in turn helps normalize neighbor
Speaker 1: on neighbor surveillance, police state. Even if a person is
Speaker 1: not actually threatened or afraid, she's going to invoke the
Speaker 1: framework of fear based racial out of placeness and can
Speaker 1: expect the police or the jury will be sympathetic and
Speaker 1: so I feel like this relates to the case of
Speaker 1: that bird watcher in Central Park or whatever, or the lady,
Speaker 1: the white lady calls the cops on him, because like,
Speaker 1: what are blackbird watchers I think of in my own neighborhood. Um,
Speaker 1: this gentleman who I ran into the gas station, who tearfully,
Speaker 1: you know, described having lived on the street down the
Speaker 1: street from my old house. Um, who was out walking
Speaker 1: with his walking stick, and someone called the cops on
Speaker 1: him because they thought he had a weapon, and he
Speaker 1: got surrounded by cop cars in the neighborhood where he
Speaker 1: had always own up or he'd always lived. Um. But
Speaker 1: that is gentrifying. And so you know, white people coming
Speaker 1: in and making claims to these spaces and using you know,
Speaker 1: racial out of placeness um to invoke either state violence
Speaker 1: or in themselves using violence in order to enforce um,
Speaker 1: the new segregation. But yeah, it's all comes back to
Speaker 1: some fundamental questions. Can Black Americans exercise their secondmentment right
Speaker 1: to bear arms? Can we stand our ground? Can we
Speaker 1: claim self defense in shooting someone who threatens us with
Speaker 1: physical harm? Does the Castle doctrine which grants a person
Speaker 1: they're right to use deadly force to protect their home
Speaker 1: from an intruder applied to us, I mean, obviously the
Speaker 1: answer is now at least not fully or at least
Speaker 1: whatever I mean, whatever it is, it's not a definitive
Speaker 1: yes to any of those questions. I think that if
Speaker 1: you look at the criminal justice system as a cascade
Speaker 1: of like decision points. UM. I think that at various
Speaker 1: ones along that in that in that waterfall that it's
Speaker 1: you know, that terminates in imprisonment. There the answer is no.
Speaker 1: So whether or not uh prosecutor decides to pull it,
Speaker 1: you know, um press charges. In the case of DeMarcus Carter,
Speaker 1: they didn't even choose the press charges against the man
Speaker 1: who killed him. Um. But you bet your ask. A
Speaker 1: lot of fucking black people are getting prosecuted for crimes
Speaker 1: that others aren't even or just walking away with murder. Um.
Speaker 1: Then there's getting to trial. And then you what if
Speaker 1: you have and all like at eleven out of two,
Speaker 1: all of your re jurors are white. Um, if you
Speaker 1: don't have great representation because you can't afford it, and
Speaker 1: at that point, you know, they just someone can easily
Speaker 1: decide and more often than not decide that no. You
Speaker 1: weren't allowed, um not to mention just so your initial
Speaker 1: interaction with the cops. The cops like you know, in
Speaker 1: the case of a mod are very who showed up
Speaker 1: to the scene and the guy, you know, I'm one
Speaker 1: of the Michael's, the former police officer. They probably also
Speaker 1: thought it was sketchy that there was a black guy
Speaker 1: jogging in a white neighborhood and we're like, well, free
Speaker 1: to go. So at all these various points, the answer
Speaker 1: is generally no. And if it's not no at the
Speaker 1: you know, if it's not no at the end, it's
Speaker 1: still no in the middle, or no at the beginning,
Speaker 1: or no at some point. No. What do you think
Speaker 1: about the like the common denominator in all of these situations,
Speaker 1: which is guns and people owning them and perhaps being
Speaker 1: a bit too overzealous with the I have complicated feelings
Speaker 1: about guns, and we've talked about this on the show before,
Speaker 1: where gun control laws are historically racist as well, again
Speaker 1: determining you know, who can and cannot bear arms not
Speaker 1: being applied uniformly across the races, So any attempts to
Speaker 1: bar certain bar people from owning guns. Ultimately, I don't
Speaker 1: know disproportionately impacting honestly folks that need them. UM, because
Speaker 1: I think guns will always exist around. UM. I'll get
Speaker 1: I'll you know, go ahead and get to the story. Um.
Speaker 1: The other day, I was out in like the hood
Speaker 1: near my house, and me and a couple other dudes
Speaker 1: were like out, uh, discreeting kids as I got on
Speaker 1: the school bus because there's been a lot of fighting
Speaker 1: on the school bus um lately, So we're just like
Speaker 1: talking to them, hyping them up for their day that
Speaker 1: at a uh. And so I was I'm walking around
Speaker 1: this like, how's he got to having his dude, he
Speaker 1: told me a story of his brother, who had served
Speaker 1: lengthy jail sentence for drug dealing, had been out in
Speaker 1: the streets getting fights with people. He was a big kingpin.
Speaker 1: People knew him. He had a lot of enemies. Got
Speaker 1: out of jail. He's a felon, so he couldn't have um,
Speaker 1: couldn't you know own a couldn't own a gun anymore,
Speaker 1: shot and killed by rivals on the day that he
Speaker 1: left jail. So the people who live in I mean, like, okay,
Speaker 1: I guess you could say, oh, well, you take all
Speaker 1: the guns off the street and the people are shooting
Speaker 1: each other. Well, there's be a legal market for anything always,
Speaker 1: and so saying certain kinds of people can have guns,
Speaker 1: like felons who do live in in dangerous and violent
Speaker 1: areas or have dangerous and violence connections, they can't defend
Speaker 1: themselves if they can't get guns. Well, I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't want to make the conversation straight too far into
Speaker 1: guns and stuff like that, because yeah, we all circle
Speaker 1: back around to that, but I will. I just feel like, man,
Speaker 1: you know, every time the gun stuff comes up, it's
Speaker 1: like I just feel like if if the government whoever
Speaker 1: is in power, like really felt to themselves like tomorrow,
Speaker 1: all right, this gun stuff is out of control, then
Speaker 1: I just feel like it would be really hard to
Speaker 1: get ahold of a gup, like if they wanted you to.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't understand how people see all these
Speaker 1: fucking wild as conspiracies for like everything, but then the
Speaker 1: fact that it's just like there there aren't any there's
Speaker 1: barely any gun laws and there's like just guns are
Speaker 1: just flowing through the country like skittles like every like
Speaker 1: everyone like looks at that like there's there's no conspiracy
Speaker 1: there that that's definitely not they want us all to
Speaker 1: kill each other. Like, that's not That's not what's happening,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? There could be an element
Speaker 1: of that. I don't know. I really thought about it
Speaker 1: from that through that lens very much, but I started
Speaker 1: to digress. We digressed real hard. But let's get into
Speaker 1: let's turn down and talk a little bit about a
Speaker 1: couple of famous stories from hip hop. Is this gonna
Speaker 1: be technically the music discussion? No, we got a couple
Speaker 1: of songs for y'all at the end. But um, first,
Speaker 1: that's the story of Shine. It was a Beliezing born
Speaker 1: rapper on did He's label the ninety nineties. You remember him, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So last year he opened up on The Fat Joe
Speaker 1: Show about his club shooting. Um did He and Shine
Speaker 1: We're at a nightclub in Manhattan and they spotted some
Speaker 1: mother rappers with whom the hell any baby? Uh. The
Speaker 1: interaction was fine at first, but then it turned into
Speaker 1: an argument, and Shine thought he saw one of the
Speaker 1: other main men reached for a gun, so he reached
Speaker 1: for his and began firing to arguably to defend himself
Speaker 1: and his friends. Shine told that Joey feared for his
Speaker 1: life and to this day maintains that he did what
Speaker 1: he had to do to protect his people. Did He
Speaker 1: and Shine were tried in separate trials. I guess, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Did. He can't remember if he was
Speaker 1: like assaulted the guy hands got thrown or yelling and
Speaker 1: Nelsen say did. He had the best lawyers and was
Speaker 1: ultimately acquitted of all charges. Sean, on the other hand,
Speaker 1: I found guilty on two counts of assault, reckless endangement
Speaker 1: in gun possession and was sad. It's ten years in prison.
Speaker 1: It was later actually, when he got out, deported to
Speaker 1: his home country of the Belize, and in a random
Speaker 1: turn of events that is weirdly relevant to the show,
Speaker 1: Sean was elected to the Belize and House of Representatives
Speaker 1: in general elections. Ending to the story. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: look it up now, but you know, I think Sean
Speaker 1: might have hit somebody in the club. Did he I
Speaker 1: think I think he hit a girl. I don't know
Speaker 1: that for for certain, but I just know that he
Speaker 1: got ten years for a reason. Oh like, oh he shot. No,
Speaker 1: I don't think he can. I mean not like you.
Speaker 1: Nobody got here. I don't think anybody got hurt. No,
Speaker 1: we just shot and people started running. And so because
Speaker 1: if it would have been like homicide or some it
Speaker 1: if he killed somebody, for sure, I don't think anybody died.
Speaker 1: I don't think I died. I swore that somebody get hit.
Speaker 1: Like maybe maybe I don't. I don't remember exactly, but um, yeah,
Speaker 1: to this day, he says he, you know, had to
Speaker 1: do what he had to do, even though he was
Speaker 1: convicted and served ten years in prison. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: what do you think about it? Like, well, I think
Speaker 1: that I think that if I'm never in favor of
Speaker 1: people busting off in the crowds, I'm just not just fact,
Speaker 1: that's fact. If you're if you're in a crowd of people,
Speaker 1: maybe don't start shooting. It's always been a frown on
Speaker 1: that man. I just I don't like. I hate. I
Speaker 1: hate that whole notion of people thinking that their ship
Speaker 1: is more what they got going on is more important
Speaker 1: than everybody else's ship. And then when it leads to
Speaker 1: people getting like shot or hit by your drunk driving,
Speaker 1: so you know what I mean, Like, I just don't
Speaker 1: like that sort of ship. So yeah, I think yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, especially the reckless endangerment large like even if
Speaker 1: he was defending himself. Those people who were in the
Speaker 1: club that started running for their lives didn't do ship exactly.
Speaker 1: They had not to do with what your beef was.
Speaker 1: And if if if I'm if, I'm you know I
Speaker 1: could If I'm wrong, I'm sorry. But if I'm not wrong,
Speaker 1: and somebody did get shot, even if it was in
Speaker 1: the baby toe, that baby toe would have been there
Speaker 1: had you asked not started popping off. So you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Um, And we can't forget the biggest
Speaker 1: crime that came out of that, which that you made.
Speaker 1: Fucking j Low realized she was hanging around street niggas
Speaker 1: and her and didd he broke up. All right, that's
Speaker 1: the true crime here, man. She was like, no, this
Speaker 1: love cost the thing. I'm out most. Anyway, let's talk
Speaker 1: about t X T I next rubber band man. All right?
Speaker 1: So t I, who influously got arrested by the A
Speaker 1: T F agents the two thousand seven BT Hip Hop Awards.
Speaker 1: Tip was caught trying to buy machine guns, silencers and
Speaker 1: other arms that he was can that he um in
Speaker 1: other arms. As he was a convicted felon, he couldn't
Speaker 1: legally acquire them. The rapper argued that the guns were
Speaker 1: for protection in the light of the murder of his
Speaker 1: best friend, Philette Johnson, who in two thousand six was
Speaker 1: gunned down in a van. He and t I were
Speaker 1: writing it after performance in Cincinnati. So I mean, there's
Speaker 1: like despite, Okay, so he's a felon, he can't have guns,
Speaker 1: but he has like a legit reason to be in
Speaker 1: front of his life if his best friend just got
Speaker 1: fucking murdered in front of him a year before. But no,
Speaker 1: you can't defend yourself because you got you. You're a fellon,
Speaker 1: so you can't have gone. So we're gonna pick you
Speaker 1: up with the bat aboards kind of whack. I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's whack. It's I I just wish that the stories
Speaker 1: are just more clear cut. Why was TI buying silencers?
Speaker 1: He was scared silencers though, Like silencers aren't I'm scared
Speaker 1: for my life, silencers. I'm coming to get you. That's
Speaker 1: again maybe getting hung up on that one detail, and yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, like stop bad back. I don't want to
Speaker 1: get hung up on that one detail. But this story
Speaker 1: just hits me different. If I'm reading t I was
Speaker 1: afraid for his life because his friend got killed and
Speaker 1: the cops went and picked him up while he was
Speaker 1: trying to buy the machine guns. Then I'm like, have
Speaker 1: you ever bought something? Have you ever bought something unnecessary
Speaker 1: because it made you feel better? Yeah? Yeah I have.
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying he was like, yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna drop them like you know, like real quiet.
Speaker 1: Nobody's gonna. No, It's just like I'm asking what I
Speaker 1: would agree it's in the scene, obscene amount of weaponry,
Speaker 1: out of out of fear, just like I want all
Speaker 1: the ship, Give me all the ship, give me all
Speaker 1: the machine guns, give me all silencers. I'll get me
Speaker 1: all the ship because I'm terrified. Now is there do
Speaker 1: Is there nothing that is Is there no aspect of
Speaker 1: their shame or perhaps how we feel about the as
Speaker 1: celebrities that might be influencing some of our views on that. Oh,
Speaker 1: absolutely buy us out, because I just mean, if Larry
Speaker 1: the Cable Guy before Larry the Cable Guy, keep bringing
Speaker 1: him out in these analogies, but I feel like if
Speaker 1: Larry the Cable Guy got pulled over at the Country
Speaker 1: Music Award with a pickup truck filled with fucking infrared
Speaker 1: beams and silencers and scopes of machine guns. The police
Speaker 1: would tap him up and fucking let him go, is
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. But and that's fucked up on the police.
Speaker 1: But I want to know about that because I'm like, damn,
Speaker 1: you know what. I don't like the idea of this
Speaker 1: rich fucking dude buying all these guns to circulate back
Speaker 1: in whatever fucking poor communities from because I just I
Speaker 1: don't know. But I mean, again, that's what that's my bias,
Speaker 1: and they're just trying to give full disposure. That could
Speaker 1: be my bias of like not believing that you know,
Speaker 1: people need thirty seven guns to defend himself. Ye and
Speaker 1: maybe just like four, maybe just like full of speaking
Speaker 1: of defending yourself once again, we talked a little bit
Speaker 1: about Trayvon earlier. But there's another, um someone infamous case
Speaker 1: of someone invoking the Florida standil ground law UM when
Speaker 1: in two thousand fourteen, Jordan Davis got into a confrontation
Speaker 1: with a white man at a gas station in Florida
Speaker 1: who said davis rap music was too loud and ultimately
Speaker 1: fired shots into Davis's car, killing him. The man claimed
Speaker 1: he thought David had a gun, but the killer was
Speaker 1: eventually convicted of murder and it was kind of beautiful.
Speaker 1: It's forgiven in court by Davis's mother, who went on
Speaker 1: to become a gun control epic it and then successfully
Speaker 1: run for Congress. And Georgia's some district I forgot seven nope, eight, nope,
Speaker 1: I don't remember. He's in Congress now doing some ship.
Speaker 1: She's getting that Boomberg money and ship. Go get your boom.
Speaker 1: But but like gun control, oh yeah, she was like
Speaker 1: all with you know, what's their names? Um? You know, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know those you know it's mostly wide ladies. What's
Speaker 1: what are they called? Oh? The I know you're talking
Speaker 1: about like moms against moms. The mom's demand action, like
Speaker 1: she's with them. Yeah, And so I think it's important though,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't even know if I want to say.
Speaker 1: I think the advocacy is important. But it's just like,
Speaker 1: you know, even in that situation, you've got the racial situation,
Speaker 1: you've got, but at the end of the day, a
Speaker 1: fucking idiot who had a gun, yeah, was the was
Speaker 1: the thing. And it's just like you can you can
Speaker 1: you can change the scenario, you can change the racism
Speaker 1: genders of everybody, like you can do everything, it all
Speaker 1: comes down to somebody having a gun that shouldn't have
Speaker 1: a gun, and that being the issue, Like that's a
Speaker 1: fucking that's a that's a like an old white dude
Speaker 1: getting cussed out at the gas station. Who should have guns?
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know you like, you know, obviously
Speaker 1: I don't have the fun that's like an answer is
Speaker 1: to who should be allowed to have the guns or
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But obviously, you know, in a country
Speaker 1: that's as big as this one, um, in a country
Speaker 1: that's as obsessed with like celebrity and notoriety and fame
Speaker 1: as the one that we live into, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not saying who should have it or you shouldn't, but
Speaker 1: it's just like obviously this ship is meeting tragic resolves
Speaker 1: at this point, you know what I mean. And it's
Speaker 1: just like it's just too many people dying needlessly from
Speaker 1: this show. I mean it, obviously there's there's there's way
Speaker 1: broader discussions to be had, There's way more specific and
Speaker 1: nuanced discussions to be had about it. But again, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like just just this case, we we could we
Speaker 1: could talk about that that situation with Jordan Davis, and
Speaker 1: we could get into like a real deep, interesting, meaningful
Speaker 1: racial conversation, right and and we can we can get
Speaker 1: into all these conversations out of this. But the one
Speaker 1: conversation that like is irrefutable is a dude, somebody had
Speaker 1: a gun that like obviously wasn't responsible for it, because like,
Speaker 1: if you own a gun and you're capable of like
Speaker 1: getting into an argument with somebody, an argument and then
Speaker 1: that makes you shoot them, then you shouldn't have had it.
Speaker 1: How about that? It's like, those are the people that
Speaker 1: shouldn't have a gun. Oh no, man, it's a nuance session.
Speaker 1: We'll do a whole episode on this sometime, but for now,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry you god, Let's get into the music discussion, couples.
Speaker 1: Let's take a little break before we do that. Okay,
Speaker 1: we'll go. Let's do it. We'll be back right after
Speaker 1: the job with the musical discussion. All right, we are
Speaker 1: back before I really cut off my bed. I'm sorry. Well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get into the music discussion. H First off,
Speaker 1: talking about self defense from Dilated People's off the album
Speaker 1: expansion team. Let's play a little bit of sciral quick
Speaker 1: what could we don't know? We showed the kid and
Speaker 1: the fish beat the treat might find interesting about particularly
Speaker 1: the first verse, as he seems Rocket seems to be
Speaker 1: like describing like an altercation, a physical altercation. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: what could it provoked? You don't make me feed the fish,
Speaker 1: feed the trees, feed the vulture, talking about you know,
Speaker 1: responding with violence. But then he gets into a block,
Speaker 1: flows with strikes and strikes with blows, a slice flows
Speaker 1: with my mike. It shows a counterattack and turn the
Speaker 1: tables in an instant, move out of range and step
Speaker 1: close and step into the wait, move out of range
Speaker 1: and step into the distance, something like that. So it's
Speaker 1: actually more oft into seeming like he's using his verbal
Speaker 1: prowess to in essence this de escalated conflict to removing
Speaker 1: it from physical altercation intil a verbal artistic even one
Speaker 1: which I think was what a part of what um
Speaker 1: like freestyle was initially meant to do. Of Like you
Speaker 1: got beef with somebody, um, bring it, bring it to
Speaker 1: the cipher, Like all right, let's battle talk shit, don't
Speaker 1: shoot each other. Just come up here and just like
Speaker 1: you know, smack about their mama or whatever. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, did you forget the guns? But just like
Speaker 1: you know in our in America that there's a lot
Speaker 1: of people who are who walk around like that just
Speaker 1: accept that, like using violence is like an actual like
Speaker 1: way to solve problems, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 1: I think something like with with just the whole theme
Speaker 1: of the song is kind of like how unnecessary that is,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And I think that's what
Speaker 1: he's kind of what that That's what that section means
Speaker 1: to me, where it's like there's more, there's there's better
Speaker 1: ways to settle differences into to prove yourself or just
Speaker 1: like there's there's better ways to make yourself get the
Speaker 1: one up on somebody, and it's not necessarily like yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna beat the shift out of a Bible or
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sucking shoot him or get into a fight
Speaker 1: or something like that. Like you know, we're like thinking
Speaker 1: breathe and human beings that could do more than just
Speaker 1: like the fucking base level ship. I'm gonna go on
Speaker 1: somewhat of a tangent, but it matters. So I've been
Speaker 1: studying lately and I may have brought this up on
Speaker 1: the show sort of the way that gun violence has
Speaker 1: been come to has come to be seen by public
Speaker 1: health experts as a as an epidemic and not just
Speaker 1: like oh, in the sense of gun violence adversely impacts
Speaker 1: people's health because they're getting fucking shot, but actually starting
Speaker 1: to think about violence as a virus. So when you're
Speaker 1: exposed to violence, you then contracted, and then you spread
Speaker 1: it to other people by letting your trauma manifest in
Speaker 1: more violence against others. And so taking that framing and
Speaker 1: you know, the way that the we publicly have come
Speaker 1: to understand viruses throughout the pandemic, think about, all right,
Speaker 1: how do you how do you stop the spread of
Speaker 1: this virus um you like you interrupt in escal conflicts
Speaker 1: and also change norms around conflict resolution, So getting out
Speaker 1: in the community and maybe getting us back to a
Speaker 1: place where we are using verbal jousting to sort of
Speaker 1: inject levity into our conflicts by like, all right, let's
Speaker 1: have a rap battle, bringing us back to that rather
Speaker 1: than the place we are now where gun violence is
Speaker 1: almost fetishized. Yeah, and like it's it's gonna be so hard,
Speaker 1: I mean, especially from like a hip hop standpoint, to
Speaker 1: get back to that because like I remember when you
Speaker 1: could listen to you could listen like a gangster rapper
Speaker 1: who talking about drive bys and blah blah blah. But
Speaker 1: even even then, like you would hear like lines about
Speaker 1: how like yo, we can put the guns down and
Speaker 1: I'll beat your ass, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 1: it's like now, I mean there's like two references in
Speaker 1: particular from like notable big rappers in songs where they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: fun that fight and should we're just gonna kill you?
Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean, like that like that's
Speaker 1: the flex and it's you know, it's it's shipped like
Speaker 1: that the mega motherfucker feel like damn am I like
Speaker 1: sixty seven because that feels like super new new, Like
Speaker 1: what that's what That's what we're talking about. Like motherfucker's
Speaker 1: like literally rappid about how they're scared to fight and
Speaker 1: they would rather just shoot you. Yeah. Another another norm
Speaker 1: shifting experiment that I read about recently, And if you
Speaker 1: give me a second, I'm gonna try to actually bring
Speaker 1: up the details. Oh this this thing called guns Down
Speaker 1: squabble up in Los Angeles where when people and there's
Speaker 1: like oh, yo, I heard Zone was gonna like come
Speaker 1: over and spread your spot. They go get the people
Speaker 1: and bring them to a place to box and have
Speaker 1: like a public boxing match between folks that are beef
Speaker 1: in as a way to settle disputes without resorting to
Speaker 1: picking up guns. Because it's like you like, it's really
Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to kill a nigga, but I
Speaker 1: just like punch them in the head a lot. I mean,
Speaker 1: you can do it. But particularly if like a bunch
Speaker 1: of people are standing around watching you all like fight,
Speaker 1: you know, you can like just determine, oh, ship, like
Speaker 1: this person won and walk away from it was nobody killed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean if if like fights had any if fights
Speaker 1: had any sort of like you know, alarming rate of
Speaker 1: like people dying in like fist fights and scraps and altercations,
Speaker 1: then like, yeah, half the population would be dead right now.
Speaker 1: So it's like, from at least that standpoint, if two
Speaker 1: people get upset about each other for whatever reason, for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, even if even if it's like oh man,
Speaker 1: I hit you, I'm gonna grab this bat and come
Speaker 1: at you, it's just factually a less efficient way to
Speaker 1: kill someone. So the chances are that somebody's not going
Speaker 1: to die. Some you might get hurt, somebody might get
Speaker 1: seriously injured and wounded, like you know, so it's like
Speaker 1: just it's not like an issue for like the conservative
Speaker 1: straw man's of like, oh, what about a knife and
Speaker 1: you can kill Like yeah, you can kill somebody with anything,
Speaker 1: but it's like, what makes it easier for you to
Speaker 1: kill someone? Like yeah, And I know we're it feels
Speaker 1: like we're getting a little bit away from the topic
Speaker 1: of self defense of the episode. I think it still
Speaker 1: matters because if somebody, somebody kills your family member and
Speaker 1: you wonder if you're next, and you decide to go
Speaker 1: get them first in retaliation, it is in essence a
Speaker 1: kind of self defense and that you fear for your
Speaker 1: life because of you know, like surviving shooting attempt or
Speaker 1: losing someone, and so figuring out how we resolve these
Speaker 1: resolve these squabbles without resorting to gun violence is still
Speaker 1: also addressing the question of how do we defend ourselves?
Speaker 1: But with the self defense, I mean even even the
Speaker 1: no ship of self defense in America as we understand it,
Speaker 1: it's something that's a derivative of our fear of guns,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like the dude who set
Speaker 1: up the deer trap thing that I was talking about, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was premeditated murder, but like it was premeditated murdered
Speaker 1: that he was like it was a plot that he
Speaker 1: cooked up because he figured, Man, if somebody breaks into
Speaker 1: your house, then I can acceptably say I feared for
Speaker 1: my life because they might have had a gun and
Speaker 1: being able to harm you. Right, yeah, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like like if like that's what it's all comes.
Speaker 1: If two people are getting a fight, like like a
Speaker 1: zimmer Zimmerman in in uh Trayvon Martin getting into a fight,
Speaker 1: Zimmerman being like, I feared for my life. Like he
Speaker 1: can say that, and on one hand, it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: well he's fighting this guy, so he thought that the
Speaker 1: guy was going to get the upper hand. But then
Speaker 1: the other thing that goes into the mind of a
Speaker 1: jury that could have quit somebody like that is like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I mean it's America and there's three million guns out there,
Speaker 1: so maybe he thought that the person had a gun.
Speaker 1: And then that's a reasonable fear that he had. When
Speaker 1: cops pull people over and shoot them willy nilly, it's
Speaker 1: because because you know, not again, not giving any benefit
Speaker 1: of the doubts the cops. But I mean one thing
Speaker 1: that cops can definitely have in their head that's a fact,
Speaker 1: is like a anybody you pull over might have a gun.
Speaker 1: That's just a fact because by the nature of the
Speaker 1: country that we lived in. So, you know, I think like,
Speaker 1: even though we are trying, you know, I don't want
Speaker 1: to get us too far off of the self defense thing.
Speaker 1: And this is about self defense. I think that that
Speaker 1: the gun play in America definitely feeds into that because
Speaker 1: like everybody's got self defense laws. They are just like
Speaker 1: ready for self defense all the time. But let's get
Speaker 1: into this next song, Kwondo Rondo's end of story. So
Speaker 1: Chicago rapper King Vaughan was shot and killed had a
Speaker 1: nightclub in Atlanta back in when was it October? I
Speaker 1: believe um allegedly after an altercation with Kwando Rondo and
Speaker 1: his crew. So now um or since then? Uh, Kwanda
Speaker 1: Rondo seems to have told his side of the story
Speaker 1: in his song end up story. So let's just do
Speaker 1: it real quick. Yeah, why you scream myself? So he
Speaker 1: you know, he starts off accusing fans for acting like
Speaker 1: the police. Um. He says nowadays, it's like the fans
Speaker 1: doing the police job. Y'all talk that gangster ship, but
Speaker 1: cry when the nigga get knocked, you post a walk
Speaker 1: in how you talk it but ship. So then got
Speaker 1: my point across. So we sort of like talking about
Speaker 1: people who you know, we're calling him out and you
Speaker 1: know you like, yo, you killed niggu um being snitches
Speaker 1: in essence? Um, he goes on, has really don't understand
Speaker 1: the concept of snitching. And they they use the word
Speaker 1: snitches like conservatives use cancel culture and wilkeness. They just
Speaker 1: throw that ship around for anything, like all right, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: he goes on. He references Timothy Leaks, who was charged
Speaker 1: with Melanie murder and King Vaughan's death. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: defending him, saying, you know, we had to make it home.
Speaker 1: Uh you know, I'm riding with a little Timmy right
Speaker 1: or wrong and stuff like that. So saying pretty much
Speaker 1: that his friend who was charged with the murder of
Speaker 1: this other mapper was just offending them. Um. And he
Speaker 1: goes on next part, he actually encourages people to look
Speaker 1: at little Timmy right and right or wrong, I think
Speaker 1: his buddy says. So even whether it's so I'm translating
Speaker 1: that is whether or not he was just to fight
Speaker 1: and kill him the guy in the fight or not
Speaker 1: he's righting was dog. Yes, yeah, I mean that's valain. Um.
Speaker 1: Did he encourage people to look at the surveillance camera footage, UM,
Speaker 1: which appears to show King Von initiating the conflict. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, damn right, we screaming self defense. Shouldn't have
Speaker 1: never put his hands on me. Look at the footage,
Speaker 1: that's all evidence. See them pussy negus shouldn't have run
Speaker 1: up on me. Um, so again alleging self defense, saying
Speaker 1: that the other guy was the aggressor and they just
Speaker 1: try to protect themselves. I mean, it's it's gonna be
Speaker 1: along the lines of what I was saying before, um
Speaker 1: all throughout this, which is like I mean, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, is it's all stupid ship. But
Speaker 1: like I would have much rather that this has just
Speaker 1: been a fight between some rappers. Well, I think what
Speaker 1: ends up happening is that one person isn't around to
Speaker 1: argue their side of whether or not they were. And
Speaker 1: that's what happened. When we remember when we covered the
Speaker 1: baby case, his shooting thing that he had years ago
Speaker 1: is the same sort of situation where it's like you
Speaker 1: only hear one side of the story, and I'm walking
Speaker 1: around for years thinking, Okay, this is part of the
Speaker 1: legend of the baby, and then you find out not
Speaker 1: even you find out, but it's just like you look
Speaker 1: more into the story, it's like, oh, no, that person
Speaker 1: who died had a mother and a brother and a
Speaker 1: sister and witnesses of their own who all saw some
Speaker 1: different ship, you know what I mean, So like like
Speaker 1: it's just it's just it just really fucking makes me
Speaker 1: angry that, like, this can't just be a Jerry Springer
Speaker 1: situation where like one crew says we didn't start it,
Speaker 1: and this crew says we didn't start it, And a
Speaker 1: couple of dudes got a fat lip and another guy
Speaker 1: has like a broken wrist or something like that, and
Speaker 1: everybody went to booking and now they're outside beefing with
Speaker 1: each other on the internet and yeada YadA, Like I
Speaker 1: would much rather it be that then oh man, you
Speaker 1: shouldn't have should have touched me. Now it's trying to
Speaker 1: cap like yeah, and and and again, like Homie might
Speaker 1: have been fearing for his life, he one me probably
Speaker 1: was fearing for his life. The reason he was fearing
Speaker 1: her life is because he didn't know whether those motherfucker's
Speaker 1: had guns. Yeah. Um. The last thing I want to
Speaker 1: talk about is I think, I mean, like God classic,
Speaker 1: only God can judge me by twocock off of all
Speaker 1: lies on me in and particularly this one line. And
Speaker 1: I think the was it the first verse? Listen to
Speaker 1: it real quick point. No such things the self defense
Speaker 1: in the tour, the loss of judges. When we get
Speaker 1: to win across that's where you so on the third verse,
Speaker 1: rapping for Trey says, um, ain't no such thing as
Speaker 1: self defense in the court of loss or judges. When
Speaker 1: we get to where we're going, wearing a cross, starts
Speaker 1: off by saying, what, let's you say? Oh yeah, would
Speaker 1: you be wrong for bucking the nigga to the pavement?
Speaker 1: You're gonna give me first, so um if I don't
Speaker 1: get them full started praying um, which I just thought
Speaker 1: I just had that second the power he says, you know,
Speaker 1: you know such thing as self defense in the court
Speaker 1: of law, So judge. When we get to wherever wewhere
Speaker 1: in the cross, it's kind of a reversal of the
Speaker 1: line that you know, people say I'd rather be judged
Speaker 1: by twelve than carried by six sort of been blind.
Speaker 1: Since there's no justice in the system of criminal justice
Speaker 1: and judgment can only come in the afterlife, you might
Speaker 1: as well fucking pull guns because if you die, you
Speaker 1: actually get judge fairly versus and you go to court,
Speaker 1: which is so bleak. It's ill because, like I mean,
Speaker 1: you have. Tupac had a very very notable self defense
Speaker 1: case that he actually got got off on on the
Speaker 1: ground of self defense when he shot two police officers
Speaker 1: who were Yeah, I mean, I guess I talk himself defense.
Speaker 1: They were unlawfully trying to harm him, and he defend
Speaker 1: himself and he shot them. Um. Oh, speaking of shooting cops,
Speaker 1: Bob Marley's I shot the sheriff. Oh yeah, I almost
Speaker 1: forgot this one. Had a hip hop song, but nonetheless
Speaker 1: very influential. Um is the third track on side one
Speaker 1: of his album Burnon, And I didn't know this before.
Speaker 1: The song is actually apparently about birth control. Did you
Speaker 1: know this? Okay? So, Jamaican filmmaker and actress Esther Anderson,
Speaker 1: who was once Marley's girlfriend, said she helped Marley write
Speaker 1: the song and said the line in which Marley sings
Speaker 1: about Sheriff John Brown hating him and always wanting to
Speaker 1: kill the seeds. He planted was about Marley being against
Speaker 1: her use of birth control during their relationship. Really supposedly,
Speaker 1: but according to Marley and writing the song, he wanted
Speaker 1: to use the phrase I shot the police, but in
Speaker 1: said I shot the sheriff, because he thought to be
Speaker 1: less inflammatory, thought that, you know, the authorities would have
Speaker 1: created a fuss if he said I shot the police,
Speaker 1: So we decided to use the other phrase to avoid
Speaker 1: unnecessary issues. So like he was like, I mean, there
Speaker 1: there may have been a metaphor implanted there and blended
Speaker 1: um about you know, some other relationship ship. But I mean,
Speaker 1: ultimately the song is I think remembered as that. That's
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying that's dope. I just mean
Speaker 1: like that trivia is dope trivia if true, if true,
Speaker 1: you know. But yeah, that's all we got for this week.
Speaker 1: Wasn't there? Wasn't there a rap version? Was there a represion?
Speaker 1: I feel like warrenge G, hold up, let me yep, yep, yep,
Speaker 1: warrenge G did one me? We can we add an
Speaker 1: amendment to this can we add another song here? I'm
Speaker 1: about to post the link in the thing you're check. Oh,
Speaker 1: I remember the show? You know what? We don't even
Speaker 1: got it. I'm sorry, I'm going all over the place
Speaker 1: right now. But like we forgot literally the most famous
Speaker 1: hip hop song about self defense, Warrenge's Regulators. Oh ship
Speaker 1: like Warrens Regulators is literally about self defense, God damn,
Speaker 1: literally about something that you know what this is. It's
Speaker 1: too many and we have been going for a long time.
Speaker 1: It's too many songs. Just check out the playlist on
Speaker 1: the Dope Knife Spotify, and you guys can check out
Speaker 1: all the songs that we have listed on today and
Speaker 1: some of the other ones that didn't make the cut,
Speaker 1: and also past episodes and stuff like that. But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't believe I didn't even think about that ship
Speaker 1: for something like. I'm so mad at myself because that
Speaker 1: should have been the first thing that I said when
Speaker 1: you said that we should do an episode on self defense. Man,
Speaker 1: I'm slipping slipping anyway. You know what? Doesn't ever slip
Speaker 1: the wraps ever? Do they never? Joe, my good sir,
Speaker 1: can you give us a beat? Feeling like? Brother Malcolm'm
Speaker 1: gonna pick into the blind trying to people around the
Speaker 1: street to see who's creeping in the ride. But if
Speaker 1: it's one of them, I ain't freak them. Now. I've
Speaker 1: been the fined on my eye until the weekend. One
Speaker 1: has died, and this is why I ain't sleeping in
Speaker 1: the night. I was thinking that I might have to
Speaker 1: keep them in my sight and defend my castle from
Speaker 1: trigger happy assholes and the pinch. But I'd rather be
Speaker 1: judged by twelve and carry but six like well francaations,
Speaker 1: like share, subscribe, bitches, see you next week. Piece Winning
Speaker 1: on Reparations is a production of I Heeart Radio. For
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