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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to One Up. I'm Doug Gliban. This is

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Speaker 1: all all basketball, all the time. So today's guest is

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Speaker 1: Tom A Betta Marco Um. Some people call him the

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Speaker 1: alphabet man. Coach A Betta Marco has been seemingly everywhere

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Speaker 1: right doing it since the mid seventies, mid early seventies,

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Speaker 1: crazy of course, as part of Jim Valvano's national championship run.

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Speaker 1: He's been a head coach, He's been assistant coach in college,

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Speaker 1: assistant coach in the w n B A and in

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Speaker 1: the G League. He's been a scout. He's been everywhere,

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Speaker 1: and he's still doing it now with Rick Pattino at

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Speaker 1: at Iona. We'll get to that in a second. I

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Speaker 1: do think it's always interesting that we in many ways

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Speaker 1: we do this in all walks of life and in sports,

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Speaker 1: where we talk about the super teams and we only

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Speaker 1: talked about the ones that worked didn't work in Houston,

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Speaker 1: despite the fact that they tried right bringing in Chris

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Speaker 1: Paul uh first, they brought in Dwight Howard, then Chris Paul,

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Speaker 1: then Russell Westbrook, it never amounted to a championship. Of course,

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Speaker 1: to the last version of the Nets coming off of

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Speaker 1: the Celtics in that trade never amounted too much, but

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Speaker 1: one playoff appearance. We've seen plenty of super teams before. Heck,

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Speaker 1: the Houston Rockets when they had Charles Barkley come come down.

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Speaker 1: That didn't work either because they were just too old.

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Speaker 1: They were over the hill. So we watched the Clippers

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Speaker 1: struggle so far against the Mavericks. The two things that

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Speaker 1: I think we don't talk enough about our one, how

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Speaker 1: great is Luca. He's amazing. And to not all super

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Speaker 1: teams work. We just make the assumption that they do.

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Speaker 1: Is the series over? No. Last year's a perfect guy

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Speaker 1: ups three games to one. The series wasn't over the

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Speaker 1: same as true here. But while it's not over, the

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Speaker 1: fat lady is in fact warming up. All right, Let's

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Speaker 1: get to Tom a better Marco. He's the assistant coach

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Speaker 1: at IONA, but his his career path is fantastic. Here's

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Speaker 1: my discussion with the longtime coach. Um, okay, you you

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Speaker 1: go where to go to college? When I go to college,

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Speaker 1: you get dall in college, I was a walk on.

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Speaker 1: That's an Oakdale. They closed it down. How about that one?

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Speaker 1: Somebody else I know who's it coached down? Recently, though,

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Speaker 1: there's somebody else. I never went there, really, I mean

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Speaker 1: it went to that. We went to the n n

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Speaker 1: AI Championships every year. Who's the coach, Dick Berg? Great guy?

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Speaker 1: What made you go there? Well? I wanted to play basketball.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't very good, so I went there and then

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Speaker 1: I walked on. I played on a freshman team, and

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Speaker 1: I made the boss. I had fun. I got in

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Speaker 1: every once in a while throw up at three one.

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Speaker 1: They went in one out of five, and I had

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Speaker 1: a lot of fun. It was. It was a great

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Speaker 1: experience for me. Um. There weren't threes back then, so

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Speaker 1: I mean, like you may look a lot younger than you.

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Speaker 1: Actually I went in and threw up three is I

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Speaker 1: counted as an ultimate bullshit? There was no three pinners there.

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Speaker 1: That guy counted as at three. That's okay. But but

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Speaker 1: you were also you were in the because I know this,

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Speaker 1: because you were in the A C. C. As an

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Speaker 1: assistant when they had the first three point line. But

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Speaker 1: it was actually it was actually really short, right, And

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Speaker 1: that's why Mark fis led the Leagan School. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: tell you, I'm gonna tell you a great story, one

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Speaker 1: of many we'll playing West Virginia in in the I

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Speaker 1: forget what arena it was, but it was. It was

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Speaker 1: one of the big arenas in this area. Right, we're

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Speaker 1: playing him and and the line is is in close,

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Speaker 1: and Valvano had this little deal you never say it's over.

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Speaker 1: So Wintenberg was going wild, hitting all kinds of threes,

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Speaker 1: and he hit one to put us up like five

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Speaker 1: like ten seconds left. So I said it's over. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why I said it. Valvano just nudged me

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Speaker 1: and turned me and whatever said, don't ever say that.

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Speaker 1: We get in the tunnel and he got me against

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Speaker 1: the wall. He's choking me. Don't you ever say the

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Speaker 1: game's over? And his dad had to come down and

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Speaker 1: pull me off. And that is a true story. Wow wow, Um, okay,

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Speaker 1: so you get done, go to Dowling College, you get done? Yeah? Okright, Um,

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Speaker 1: how did you get into coaching? What was that? Well?

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Speaker 1: What happened was I I was just a teacher, So

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Speaker 1: I taught right, So I taught specialized kids and I

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Speaker 1: like doing it, and I did it for three years.

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Speaker 1: And I helped the guy uh dick Berg with the

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Speaker 1: with the JV team. I was a volunteer there, and

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Speaker 1: then Sammy Stern hired me as his assistant coach at

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Speaker 1: New York Tech, which was a Division two team. And

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Speaker 1: Sammy was a terrific coach, well known in the area,

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Speaker 1: and we had good teams. And that's how I started

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Speaker 1: out really as coaching. But what I did is I

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Speaker 1: worked at West Hampstead Schools and I went over to

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Speaker 1: New York Techris was twenty minutes away, going to practice

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Speaker 1: every day, helped them recruit and had a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: I was in coaching and I loved it. Okay, um,

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Speaker 1: so let's let's start with the teaching special ed kids.

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Speaker 1: How old were these kids? There were elementary kids, and

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Speaker 1: it was it was tough, and it was a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun. But when I looked at my life, I

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Speaker 1: did not want to be an elementary school principal or

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Speaker 1: in education. I want to coach. So that's what I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do. Now you're gonna ask me how did

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Speaker 1: I get with with with coach V I own it

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Speaker 1: where I'm at now, which is a really interesting story. Okay,

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Speaker 1: well you gotta get you gotta give me a second

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Speaker 1: sere in New York Tech. This is mid seven, right

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Speaker 1: at seventies all right, so you do one year at

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Speaker 1: at Tech. How did you then get to where you're at? Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's very simple. I don't get see, I own a job, okay,

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Speaker 1: and I'm excited because I think I own it was big, big,

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Speaker 1: big time and uh and obviously I owned a mid

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Speaker 1: level job. And Jimmy gets a job and I call

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Speaker 1: him up and I can't get to him. I'm calling him,

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Speaker 1: call him, te him. I want to be his assistant.

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Speaker 1: I you know, I never heard of a return call

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Speaker 1: or whatever I'm do. I'm at an All Star game

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Speaker 1: okay where uh, some high school guys are playing. I'm

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Speaker 1: with Sammy Stern or watching the kids we signed. So

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Speaker 1: Valvano is there and I can't get to him. But

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Speaker 1: he went over to Sammy and asked how Sammy signed

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Speaker 1: a place he got at that particular school, and really

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Speaker 1: a lot with Sammy because he was the head coach,

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Speaker 1: he had connections. But he pointed to me. So Valvano

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Speaker 1: came over to me and said, you're tom a better marks.

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Speaker 1: I've been calling you, said, I never got your calls.

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Speaker 1: He said, hey, come see me monday in my office.

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Speaker 1: I said, okay, sure, I'll come up. He said, I said,

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Speaker 1: I teach school. So he said, come up about four o'clock.

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Speaker 1: I said, I'll barely make it, but i'll get there.

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Speaker 1: So I get there at four o'clock. We go in

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Speaker 1: sit in his office. He said, look, I got one

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Speaker 1: full time assistant and I have a part time guy.

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Speaker 1: And he said, but both guys can recruit, because usually

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Speaker 1: you can have to full time guys. He said, I

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Speaker 1: got a great offer for you. You could keep teaching

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Speaker 1: elementary school. You could you could come over afterwards a practice,

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Speaker 1: or go recruit. He said, you know, I'm really interested

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Speaker 1: if you were able to recruit guys like that. And

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Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I'd be really interested. He said, or,

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Speaker 1: he said, or if you really love basketball and you

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Speaker 1: really want to get in coaching, you just give up

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Speaker 1: the teaching job. He said, how much you're making teaching?

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Speaker 1: I said, I'm making ten thousand in those days it

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Speaker 1: was decent. I see, said, well I have two thousand

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Speaker 1: for you. Now. You just what you do is you

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Speaker 1: just give up the job and you volunteer. What is

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Speaker 1: your wife make? I said, well, my wife makes probably

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Speaker 1: about five. He said, yeah, that's fine, you can live

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Speaker 1: on seven. What do you think I said, yeah, I'd

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Speaker 1: love to do it. I did it. Drove home that night,

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Speaker 1: I told my wife Dawn, Hey, guess what I got

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Speaker 1: the job. She's great. How much you make? It? Said,

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Speaker 1: making two thousand dollars. We lived the top of her

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Speaker 1: aunt's house. Okay, so we really didn't pay big rent.

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Speaker 1: And that's how I got in with valdandam first player

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Speaker 1: you signed, Glenn Vickers. He really was a terrific guard,

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Speaker 1: recruited by Florida a lot of Ivy League schools. Really

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Speaker 1: really a good player, and he came because of Jimmy, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: kids come from the head coach. He was a big

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Speaker 1: name Long Island player. And he brought with him who

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Speaker 1: was the second player, a kid named Kevin Hamilton's great backcourt. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Two really good guards and they started things rolling for us.

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Speaker 1: When you said he came to play for Balto, what

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Speaker 1: was what was val Bado? Like, this is mid seventies,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is before ruland right, and this is

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Speaker 1: obviously well before NC stayed and he became kind of

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Speaker 1: a national personality. Well what was he like with with

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Speaker 1: kids that just when they when would come in, kids

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Speaker 1: loved them because you know, he had a swagger about him. Uh,

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Speaker 1: he talked their language, he was upbeat, he was outgoing. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He had a great, great, great error about him. And

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Speaker 1: he just convinced kids that that he was gonna build

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Speaker 1: my Owner into a power, which he eventually did. And Uh,

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Speaker 1: these two guards started things. They were best friends with

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Speaker 1: Jeff Rulin, and then you know, eventually that led to

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Speaker 1: us getting Jeff Rulin. And then you know that was

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Speaker 1: a big, big factor. I mean, obviously it was the

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Speaker 1: number one player in the country. How did you get

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Speaker 1: Jeff Ruin? You know, I don't know if I got

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Speaker 1: Jeff Ruling. A more circumstances got Jeff for him. He

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Speaker 1: loved Vickers and Hamilton's. We're in the E C a C.

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Speaker 1: There was no big East, so we had as much

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Speaker 1: to sell as St. John's. As far as where we

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Speaker 1: were going, we just never were there. And he really

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Speaker 1: wanted to be a guy that put a program on

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Speaker 1: the map. He visited Indiana, he visited her name in

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Speaker 1: North Carolina, he visited Wake Forest, and he chose I ownA.

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Speaker 1: And he chose I Owner because he wanted to stay

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Speaker 1: close to home. Uh. For whatever reason, he didn't have

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Speaker 1: a good chemistry with the other local coaches, and he

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Speaker 1: chose I ownA and it was it was, it was,

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Speaker 1: it was a big deal. And you know, obviously Jimmy

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Speaker 1: sold him a dream to win the nine o'clock game

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Speaker 1: in Madison Square Garden, which they did about two or

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Speaker 1: three times. They bey Kansas, they beat Louisville. So why

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Speaker 1: did you leave Davidson? Um? I left because I I

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Speaker 1: because I wanted more money and I wanted more I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I just I just felt Davidson at the

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Speaker 1: time was bigger. And I went to jim and he said, look,

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Speaker 1: I can't pay you anymore. I think I was making

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Speaker 1: five at the time, and he said Avison was gonna

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Speaker 1: pay me fifteen. So I said, I'm going Well, I

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Speaker 1: went there and then obviously the head coach there had

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Speaker 1: some health issues and uh, he ended up resigning at

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Speaker 1: the end of the year. A friend of mine, John

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Speaker 1: coach and coached the team, and they didn't give John

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Speaker 1: the job. And after that, Louis call me, so, did

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Speaker 1: you ever coach who's the head coach you got sick

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Speaker 1: at where? Yeah, it was Dave Pritchett and he had

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Speaker 1: some health issues. So he resigned before the season started

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Speaker 1: and John coach, and who was one of my dearest friends,

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Speaker 1: coached the team that year. Yeah, but so what's that

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Speaker 1: like though, to leave New York all you've really ever known,

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Speaker 1: right to then go down to Charlotte and you're coaching

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Speaker 1: for a guy who wasn't you were supposed to coach

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Speaker 1: with a different guy. It was It was really really hard,

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Speaker 1: but John and I got real close, and had John

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Speaker 1: gotten the job, I probably wouldn't have stayed because Louis

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Speaker 1: all me. But I mean, I was intended to say

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Speaker 1: that with him. Don't forget I'm a young kid right now.

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Speaker 1: I don't you know, I'm not. I'm making a couple

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Speaker 1: of thousand bucks at Iona, I go to Davidson make

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Speaker 1: a little more money. It's to me Davidson's bigger time

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Speaker 1: and and for whatever reason, that's why I left. And

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Speaker 1: probably when you look back, it was a mistake. I

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Speaker 1: probably should have stayed. So you So Louis called Louise

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Speaker 1: Louis Carns. Second, Louise Louis liked he call your office?

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Speaker 1: Did he call your home? This is before the days

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Speaker 1: of the cell phone. Here's the deal with Louis. Louis

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Speaker 1: had a famous guy named Red Sarah Chuck, who was

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Speaker 1: his kind of his guruin basketball. Red was an old

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Speaker 1: uh old Jewish guy like yourself and you're a young

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Speaker 1: Jewish guy. And he was very famous in the New

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Speaker 1: York area, terrific coach, and he was very close to

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Speaker 1: Sammy Stern. And they told him that I would be

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Speaker 1: a good guy to bring in a young guy that

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Speaker 1: could help him, you know, get players. Louis was getting

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Speaker 1: a lot of transfers and maybe he help was getting

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Speaker 1: some high school guys. So Louis called me and well,

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Speaker 1: first you remember where you were. Were you back home

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Speaker 1: in New York? Were you still? No? No, no. I

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Speaker 1: was in where it was is. I was in North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: I got a cold, probably it was probably from sam Stern.

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Speaker 1: And he said, Red wants to talk to you, cal Red,

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Speaker 1: and I really didn't know Red. And Red said, hey,

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Speaker 1: how would you like to work for Louis said sure,

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Speaker 1: said come on in. He's gonna interview you. So I

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Speaker 1: went there and I sat down and coach said, Tommy.

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Speaker 1: He said, Tommy, I hear you really recruited. He said,

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Speaker 1: I'm really really interested in you. I said, coach interested,

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Speaker 1: I said, I'd be hon it to work for you.

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Speaker 1: He said, okay, when can you start? I said, I

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Speaker 1: get start tomorrow. Coach, he said, okay, let's see if

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Speaker 1: we get the paperwork done. Louis was the best, you know,

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Speaker 1: a louti Italian guy. I'm Italian. I loved him. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so what was what was he like the coach with

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Speaker 1: coach for Well, Louis was a great teacher. And we

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Speaker 1: had John Kress Willis. John Krest was a great, excellent guy. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So mainly I came in and I was gonna be

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Speaker 1: the guy that helped get players. But also on the

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Speaker 1: staff part time was a guy named Ronnie Rutledge who

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Speaker 1: became a famous assistant at at Una. And Ronnie had

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Speaker 1: another job and he was our part time guy, so

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Speaker 1: he'd come in after work and worked for us. So

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Speaker 1: we that was our staff. We had a terrific, terrific staff.

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Speaker 1: John was terrific and uh, I love working for Louis.

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Speaker 1: And you know we signed that year a kid named

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Speaker 1: David Russell, which was MVP the UH Holiday Festival. And

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Speaker 1: and Kevin Williams remember to guard to play for San

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Speaker 1: Antonio sure years ago, him and a couple other guys

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Speaker 1: and we we had a really good recruiting. The best

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Speaker 1: story about Louis Is is we're going out to sign

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Speaker 1: uh David David Russell and we're driving out to Long

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Speaker 1: Island and we get out there and we get him,

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Speaker 1: and I tell Ronnie, Ronnie, you gotta pull over, so

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Speaker 1: I gotta, I gotta drink some wine or something. Ryan

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Speaker 1: was driving. Coach said, we can't do that in a car.

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Speaker 1: I said, we gotta, we gotta, we we just we

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Speaker 1: just gotta the player we wanted. And Louis wouldn't pull

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Speaker 1: U would get the wine. But we were we were

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Speaker 1: driving home and the song came on, There's no stopping

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Speaker 1: us now, and we were so excited to get him

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Speaker 1: because that's the kid coach wanted. And then after him,

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Speaker 1: we got Kevin Williams and put together a great class

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Speaker 1: for him for the future. Now this is again for

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Speaker 1: people are catching up. This is late seventies, just before

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Speaker 1: the Big East, Right, So what was what was St?

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Speaker 1: John's Leg? Where did you guys? Do guys play on campus?

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Speaker 1: You guys playing? We played on campus. We had The

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Speaker 1: team we had was Reggie Carter, Bernard Rencher, Ronnie Player,

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Speaker 1: John gil Gilroy, John Gilory I think it was and

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Speaker 1: Wayne McCoy. We went to play luckily to get an

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Speaker 1: n C A bid. I mean, I fact, we didn't

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Speaker 1: even we weren't even watching the show. I don't even

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Speaker 1: know it was a show at that time. I get

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Speaker 1: a call from coach. He said, guess what, we're playing

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Speaker 1: Temple in the n C A tournament. We thought we were,

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Speaker 1: you know, going to the n I t So we

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Speaker 1: got in as a as a coach. What was he

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Speaker 1: liked game? When you get the n C churn like?

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Speaker 1: What was what was Luke Carneseca Like? Here was Luke

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Speaker 1: a second great practice coach and preparator and John Kress

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Speaker 1: helped him and he was terrific in getting ready for

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Speaker 1: a game. During a game, made great adjustments. But Louis

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Speaker 1: wanted you to play great man and man defense, okay,

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Speaker 1: and he was gonna run sets to slow the game down.

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Speaker 1: When Louis was great, he told the guys he would

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Speaker 1: run right. But what Louis did was anytime you want

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Speaker 1: to slow the game, and he jump up running play.

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Speaker 1: And he did that a lot because he liked to

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Speaker 1: control tempo and he was a great defensive coach. So

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Speaker 1: Louis tell the guys. I mean, but On and and Carter,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna We're gonna push the ball. And then he

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Speaker 1: get up and say we're running three, we're running five

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Speaker 1: to slow the game down. And he controlled tempo. He

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Speaker 1: was a terrific, terrific tactician and a great, great game coach.

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Speaker 1: Why did you leave to go to Maryland? Action lights

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Speaker 1: Cameras a CC? My friend John Coaching gets the job

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Speaker 1: at Maryland. Get a call from John and said, look, Tommy,

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Speaker 1: what are you making? And I own at UH at St. John's,

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Speaker 1: I'm making fifteen? He said how about thirty? And the

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Speaker 1: a c C. I said, holy cow? And lefty Giselle,

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Speaker 1: I said, holy cow. So I wanted to see coach

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Speaker 1: and I said, Coach, look, can I go down there

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Speaker 1: for this interview? He said sure. He said, well, I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm only making fifteen. They're gonna give me

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Speaker 1: twenty five. You give me twenty five. I left, stay

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Speaker 1: or thirty whatever it was, and I think that he said,

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Speaker 1: how we beat the can't afford that said okay. I

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Speaker 1: went and put on my best best sports jacket and closed,

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Speaker 1: which wasn't very good because I don't have a rewardrobe

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Speaker 1: because I made no money. And I went down to

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Speaker 1: see Lefty and I was ordered by Coldfield House, you know,

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Speaker 1: the a CEC, the great players. And I went back

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Speaker 1: and Louis called me and said, I got you the money.

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Speaker 1: I said, I took the job. He said, that's the

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Speaker 1: biggest mistake you made your life. I said why, He said,

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Speaker 1: I I'm be able to groom you for this job.

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Speaker 1: He said, I want you here. You be exciting. And

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Speaker 1: you know, Doug, I was a young kid at the time,

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Speaker 1: and action lights cameras the A C C. They were

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Speaker 1: in the E C a C. There was no big East.

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Speaker 1: I said, I'm going. Fox Sports Radio has the best

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Speaker 1: sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our

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Speaker 1: shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live.

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Speaker 1: So I went, okay, So now you're in uh, You're

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Speaker 1: you're in Maryland two years? Two years? What was that

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Speaker 1: experience like? Was what was Lefty to work for? First? Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, Lefty was so organized and so inticulous

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Speaker 1: and such a great, great organizer as a as a coach,

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Speaker 1: he was better than everybody gave him credit to him

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Speaker 1: To be. He was relentless as a recruiter and he

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Speaker 1: demanded a lot of staff. Okay, and I had a

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Speaker 1: wonderful two years. We we went to the h We

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Speaker 1: lost to I guess Indiana in the first round. We

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Speaker 1: got beat by Isaiah Thomas and them down in Dayton.

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Speaker 1: Our second year, we I think we went to we

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Speaker 1: won two games or went to the final eight or sixteen.

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Speaker 1: And and then UH I had a decision to make

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Speaker 1: UH coach Valvado wanted me to come to and C

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Speaker 1: State and he talked to Lefty about it. That didn't

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Speaker 1: go over well. And also coach, just in those days,

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Speaker 1: you never hired somebody winning league. Now, I was ready

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Speaker 1: to go with Jimmy the State because Jimmy and I

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Speaker 1: were close. Lefty wasn't happy with it. So Jimmy said

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Speaker 1: to me, look, Marty Fletcher is leaving in the next

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Speaker 1: year too. I'm getting the head job. He said, if

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Speaker 1: you're not in Maryland, you'll come with me. So Lefty

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Speaker 1: and I banged heads a little bit about me thinking

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Speaker 1: about going to State, and I decided to go to

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Speaker 1: the gym Tech with Charlie Moya. And you know, sometimes

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Speaker 1: fate happens Charlie, which I didn't know at the time,

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Speaker 1: was in job trouble big time. Doug and I went

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Speaker 1: down there and I told Charlie, I said, Charlie looked

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Speaker 1: as a beautiful place. And they were talking at the

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Speaker 1: time of Virginia Tech going in the a SEC really

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Speaker 1: at that time, and I told your look, try I'll

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Speaker 1: come here and stay with you. But if Valvano ever

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Speaker 1: calls me, now I gotta go. He said, fine. I

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Speaker 1: went down there. I helped them recruit Del Curry kid

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Speaker 1: named Bobby Beach. You put together a good team that

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Speaker 1: that helps save his job. And then Jimmy call Marty

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Speaker 1: got the job of v M I um Dell Curry.

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Speaker 1: Dell Curry was an interesting situation. Great great player, great player,

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Speaker 1: different type of dude. Uh in terms of what uh

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Speaker 1: you know. Maryland wanted them, uh, Carolina wanted him, Virginia

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Speaker 1: wanted him, and Virginia Tech was in the Metro Conference,

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Speaker 1: which was was a good conference, not the a SEC.

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Speaker 1: Louisville Florida State since the Louisville, Florida State and Memphis

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Speaker 1: with Keith Lee good players, I mean, good team. And

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Speaker 1: he came down down to a couple of games as

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Speaker 1: of junior and I knew him from Maryland and it

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Speaker 1: worked out where he liked it, really liked Charlie liked

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00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 1: the style of play, and Virginia Tech. We used to

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Speaker 1: pack the game at Nice Arena. It's a beautiful campus

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Speaker 1: and it was about an hour from us own. So

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Speaker 1: he said, I'm coming. Did you think he was a pro.

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Speaker 1: He thought he was a great, great shooter. Didn't think

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Speaker 1: he was gonna be that good. I mean, no one did.

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Speaker 1: And who knew he was gonna have sons that were

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Speaker 1: great players too. I mean, obviously Steph is better than Sad,

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Speaker 1: but but Dell was a great, great shooter and could

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Speaker 1: really play. He didn't have the explosiveness with the ball

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Speaker 1: that his sons sons have. No, No, he was not.

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Speaker 1: He was. He was a catching shoot. He became um

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Speaker 1: and and like perfect for him, like absolutely perfect. Um.

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Speaker 1: It's it's interesting to me because you know, my brother

404
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,640
Speaker 1: hadn't worked for you. He's like, there's two parts to it.

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00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 1: There's one that you can recruit, but there's two that

406
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,679
Speaker 1: you can evaluate. Because there's plenty of guys that recruit,

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00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,880
Speaker 1: but they don't know what they're looking for. By the way,

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00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 1: by the way. I do want to say this about

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Speaker 1: your brother. He worked with me at a very tough place,

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Speaker 1: Sack State, for a couple of years, and I helped

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Speaker 1: them get a job at San Diego State. Your brother

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Speaker 1: was terrific on the court coach for me and a terrific,

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Speaker 1: terrific recruiter, and he went on to to do that

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Speaker 1: in his future time and was still very close. But

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Speaker 1: he he is a good basketball guy. I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: It's true. I wouldn't say it for me so, but

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Speaker 1: how did the ability to process and evaluating to walk

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Speaker 1: into a gym and like I'm gonna we're gonna come

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Speaker 1: back to Virginia Tech in a second. But Spencer did

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Speaker 1: when He's a perfect example of it, right, He's a

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Speaker 1: guy from Los Angeles. It was a good player, but

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Speaker 1: the big boys in the u c l As in

423
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,880
Speaker 1: Arizonas didn't offer well. They they recruited him, but they

424
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 1: backed away recruited but put backed up in. But it

425
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: was something that you know, you go to bat and

426
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 1: you say you see it, How does what does it come?

427
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: What's your process of evaluation? How do you see kids

428
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 1: and think it's it's it's not brain surgery and it's

429
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 1: not that hard. Like I scouted in the NBA with

430
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 1: the Kings for a while. Okay, and I go to

431
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 1: games and I see a lot of guys up there

432
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,919
Speaker 1: and there writing things down, putting in their phone, and

433
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: I'm sitting there, I'm out writing any and watching the game,

434
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:26,479
Speaker 1: and said, how the heck are you gonna be on

435
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,239
Speaker 1: your phone and write stuff down? You're missing things. Just

436
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: watch the game, evaluate him, and then after the game

437
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: write a couple of notes down, or write the report

438
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 1: the next day. It's just you can you can tell

439
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: if a guy can play. I mean you can tell

440
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: by his his athleticism. Uh does he make shots? Can

441
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 1: he defend? I mean, it's not it's it's not that hard.

442
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 1: I guess certain guys have an act for it. And

443
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 1: of course I've missed. I made a lot of mistakes,

444
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: but I also have been lucky enough to have some

445
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: home runs. Um your most interesting home visit. You can

446
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: remember I closiizing, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna pick I'm

447
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: gonna pick this guy because fran Fichello always brings this up. Okay,

448
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 1: so we're recruiting this big kid. His name is martins

449
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: Lee and We used to do this with a lot

450
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 1: of guys, and he was supposed to be a hell

451
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: of a play went to do. He didn't turn out

452
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 1: poor Martin in turn. But we we we used to

453
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: do with Jimmy, and we did it with with Del

454
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 1: Carry and Virginia Tech and I did it with a

455
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 1: lot of guys. We'd go in the house and uh,

456
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 1: we'd sit down and you got understand, Dean was coming

457
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: in after us, and Mike was coming in, and a

458
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: lot of guys were coming and we needed something different.

459
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 1: So we'd go in and I'd have my shirt on,

460
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: my suit, like, you know, dressed up, because that's how

461
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 1: we went at home and business says to day and

462
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: before as we're going on and talking, I would just

463
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: kind of stand up and take my shirt off. And

464
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: there might be you can't do this anymore because you

465
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: can't have a kid's name on it. There might be

466
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 1: NC State wants X player or Virginia Tech wants to Okay, well,

467
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: the place would crack up. And now that gave Jimmy

468
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: the stage or whatever. It broke the ice. And now

469
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: the guy that was a head coach con Gold and

470
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 1: I didn't mind doing it, and it was it was fine,

471
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 1: but that when we did it with Martin Nesley, it

472
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 1: was it was really funny because Fran Fran found out

473
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: and called me and in the house he was, you know,

474
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: trying to make fun of it and stuff. And Fran

475
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 1: talks about that to this day. How we would how

476
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: I would take off my shirt and it would be

477
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: the Superman shirt underneath. How how does a New York

478
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: how do you relate to kids from all over the

479
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 1: country and like you've gotten kids from you signed kids

480
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: from everywhere for all these different programs. How do you

481
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: how do you and even still to this day, how

482
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: do you stay um with the ability to relate to

483
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: a younger generation and a different genera and a different originality. Well,

484
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: you know what, Like I don't know, I I have

485
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 1: I just contell I don't go with the A lot

486
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: of people using the phone for texts too much and

487
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: emails and stuff. I'd rather get the guys on the

488
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: phone and call and and my calls are really quick

489
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: and short and to the point, and I always know

490
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna say, and and I don't I don't

491
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: drive the kids name and nuts. I may call him

492
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 1: a lot of times, but it own short holls and

493
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: the relations type things. It might be a quick text.

494
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. I I still get along with kids

495
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 1: really well, and I have I don't have any problems.

496
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,479
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just it's like, why are you

497
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 1: so good on on TV and radio? Why you just haven't? Yeah,

498
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: but I would say I think that UM one. Covering

499
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: college basketball specifically keeps you kind of in the It

500
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: keeps you every time you go to a practice. You

501
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: see what kids are wearing, how they're talking, what they're

502
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 1: listening to, like you really pay attention, you talk to coaches,

503
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: you kind of and then having kids on my own

504
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 1: now like you understand what the younger generation is watching.

505
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: How that it's I think that those things have kept you,

506
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: kept me young, if you will, UM having kids of

507
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: my own, and I think continue to cover the college

508
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: game and and covering all the sports like you know,

509
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: you know what the next trends are. And my easiest

510
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 1: example to that one is I was probably about ten

511
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: years ago. I remember that I broke out some I

512
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: was going to play basketball and I broke out some

513
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: some tights underneath, and my wife that when she was

514
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: she was like, what are you wearing and I was like,

515
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm wearing I'm wearing Nike procups. And

516
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: she's like, like, what do you think you're like an

517
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,719
Speaker 1: NBA player. I was like, no, trust me, everybody wears

518
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: them and everybody's going to wear them, right, and now

519
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 1: it's become a trend. But I only picked up on

520
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: that from being in college gym's watching a practice before

521
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: a game when that's what all the kids wore, you know.

522
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 1: And so it's just the ability to relate by staying

523
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 1: kind of in the business. But I do wonder in

524
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: terms of, like everything about you, even coaching MVI was

525
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: all still kind of a new your tie. And then

526
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: you get to these other places like Virginia, like Maryland,

527
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: like Davidson, and you're not recruiting simply New York kids

528
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: are not. I'm only getting New York kids. I just

529
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: wonder what that was like for you, to relate to

530
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: kids from such different parts of the country. You know,

531
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 1: I never had problems relating with guys. I really didn't.

532
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: I always had my my whole New York stick and

533
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: I just was myself. And I don't know, I don't

534
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 1: know why. I mean, I'm sure there's some guys I

535
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 1: turned off and because I was aggressive or all my personality,

536
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: but it always it always had worked. Um did did did? Coach?

537
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: Let let's get this? So how does how do the

538
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: Valvano things? Like? What do you remember when he called

539
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: you to come to NC State from Virginia Tech? Do

540
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: you remember where you were? Remember the circumstances when when

541
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: uh oh, yeah, I remember he called me and I

542
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: was at home. I picked up the phone and he said,

543
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: you know, Marty's leaving and I want you here. I said, yeah,

544
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: I want to come, and said, well, let's get it done.

545
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: I remember we had to play Georgia in the n

546
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: I t at Georgia and I told coach Moya before

547
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: the game, after the game, I want to go. He said,

548
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: you can't leave. I said, I've got to go. I

549
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: told you I was gonna go. And he wouldn't accept

550
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: until the day had happened. And del Curry didn't take

551
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 1: it particularly good. And I did it. But you know,

552
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: in those days, I was young. I was brash. I mean,

553
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: you know, how old are you at this point? I

554
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: was in my thirties. I don't remember exactly I was

555
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: in my thirties Okay, so you show up in Raleigh, Okay, yep,

556
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: and even though you were still close, you had worked

557
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: with it worked for him in a couple of years.

558
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: What was Had he changed at all? Had he evolved some?

559
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: Had he um? Had his coaching change and his style

560
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: change and anything of the things he was doing changed.

561
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: He wanted, you know, Jimmy wanted to do a lot

562
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: of things. He didn't only want a coach. Okay, he

563
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: was a great game coach, and he was a good

564
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: practice coach, although he delegated a lot in practice. But

565
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: he what he liked to do, different things. He'd like

566
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: to be on TV, like to entrepreneur. That was this Shimmy.

567
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: That was Jimmy's personality. Had he changed? Yeah? He wanted

568
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: to win a national championship. That was always his dream.

569
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: And he wanted to to maybe someday coach in the NBA.

570
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: I think that was a dream of his. And what

571
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: happened was he he had the dream and he created

572
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: the dream with a veteran team. When I got there,

573
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: we had Wittenberg and Low they were together. We had Bailey,

574
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: we had chose l We had you good players. They

575
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: had lost to Chattanooga the year before, and it was

576
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: a veteran team, and not not that the players were

577
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: great players. They were very good players and had great

578
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: Chemich and Wittenberg and Lowe with like two coaches on

579
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: the floor. And he let him play and he let

580
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: him go, and they trusted him. He trusted them, and

581
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: what we put together was a great run. Was that

582
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: what jumps out to you that doesn't get discussed enough

583
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: about that first team? Jimmy, Jimmy, how to use use

584
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: use his guards. Uh, he knew it was a guard's

585
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: game in those days too. And well, you know, a

586
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: big guy strow Bailey was a terrific talent and and

587
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: very good and cosal McQueen was a shot blocker, and

588
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: Lorenzo was a rebounder. He just put it all together.

589
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: But he put the bowl in Wittenberg and Lowe's hands.

590
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: And even though Whittenberg couldn't dribble, he was a great shooter.

591
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: And and Sydney supposedly wasn't a great shooter, but he

592
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: made shots. And he just put it together and let

593
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: him play. And uh, at times, Jimmy, we control the game.

594
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: At other times he let those guys go. But with

595
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: the two veteran guards that I played together at the map.

596
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: He really he really built everything around them, Doug. And

597
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: that's basically what happened. And we went on a run.

598
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: We wanted to run. The He kept them believing, he

599
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: kept them loose. Um when the shot, when Whittenberg's shot

600
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: goes up, what were what were you thinking? Like? Take

601
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: me through what it was actually like, here's basically what happened.

602
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: People don't know. We go to the huddle and we

603
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: would would drawing up a play for man and what

604
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: we're gonna do against man and man everybody not uh,

605
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: Guy Lewis right. He came out in the half court trap,

606
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: which was a great, great strategy they had. They had

607
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: had us trapped in the corner. They had somebody trapped it.

608
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: I guess it was he almost strew it away. It

609
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: was at across court and his almost steals if they

610
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: win the national championship. Instead Whittenburgh catches it. Should have

611
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: thought it to Terry Gannon was wide open, but you

612
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: know he's not gonna do that with threw it up.

613
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: Lorenzo was dead dunked it well. We went to chat.

614
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: We win the championship, but Guy Lewis didn't get enough

615
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: credit for what he did. He made a great, great

616
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: move by coming out in that half court trap. We

617
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: didn't suspect it, right because everybody draws up the man

618
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: play and then he goes and he goes to the

619
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: zone and Betty almost think about it crazy. No one

620
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: ever talking about that. The the Lorenzo catches it and

621
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: dunce it. Okay, we all know Jimmy running around looking

622
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: for somebody to hug. What were you doing? Well, I

623
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: was in a group of guys. One was Terry Gannon

624
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: and I don't remember who else was there, and we

625
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: were hugging on ourselves on the other side, and Jimmy

626
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: was running around. He finally found I guess the a

627
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: d and hugged some other guys and found Wootenberg and Lowe,

628
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: and you know, it was It was an unbelievable situation.

629
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: I never forget. I looked up in the sands and

630
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: way up top I saw Digger Felts and Digger was

631
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: up there and he was smiling because his friends were

632
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: Jimmy and uh and I remember my mom and dad

633
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: came on the court, which was big, and you know

634
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: that was that was a tremendous moment. It was once

635
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: in a lifetime, and it was in not a big

636
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: domed arena. It was in Albuquerque, which is a great

637
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: place to play nineteen thousand, but it was a different setting.

638
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: A matter of fact, you loved this. That night after

639
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: the championship, we were staying there over here in where

640
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: the rooms were, you know, outside, so people were coming by,

641
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: backing on doors. I mean, it was not the setting

642
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: that just now. I mean it was unbelievable. Um, okay,

643
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: Now spud Web was the next year, right, so tell

644
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: me tell me the spud Web recruiting story. Well, yeah,

645
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: this is what happened. But what happened actually you're the championship.

646
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: See we there was a guy named Ernie Launch, famous

647
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: guy from Riverside Church in New York, New York. A

648
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: matter of fact, he used to really helped Louis get

649
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: a lot of players. He was Riverside Church. Okay, So

650
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: Ernie had a couple of guards. One was Pearl Washington,

651
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: the other was Kenny Hudson. We wanted Pearl Washington, couldn't

652
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: get him. Well, so we went into visit with Ernie

653
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: and Arnie said, I don't need a Pearl, but you

654
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: might be able to get you can get uh Kenny,

655
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: and I don't think Pearl played for for Ernie, but

656
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: Ernie was telling us we get Kenny, and Kenny was

657
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: not as highly recruited. Not great shooter, but a good player.

658
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: So we committed Kenny, but Kenny's mom would not sign

659
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: a national letter for whatever reason. So we go through

660
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: the championship, the tournament and and he Sutton swoops in

661
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 1: and gets hutchetson that officer. We're having a point guard.

662
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: I saw something in Sports Illustrated about this kids, Spud Webb,

663
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 1: so I went back in my desk and it was there.

664
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: I called the guy at North Texas State and who

665
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: was the coach and I forget his name now I

666
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: think it was coach Green, but I'm getting old, so

667
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: I forget it. And he said, uh, yeah, Slud's a

668
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: good player. He said, he signed with North Texas State

669
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: so he cannot sign another national letter. He said, Missouri

670
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: coaching a little bit. But I think he's gonna go.

671
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna go to uh to North Texas.

672
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 1: He signed out of high school in North Texas or whatever,

673
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: so he said, but I'm not sure, I said, would

674
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: be interested. I don't know, so I called spread up

675
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: and Spud said, I don't really want to stay close

676
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: to home, you know, I'm not sure. I said, this

677
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: is where is he from? Dallas is where he still lives.

678
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: He works for the Legends. He's a GM for for

679
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: the legendcy the G League team of the Dallas Marriage

680
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,959
Speaker 1: call him up. Spug Bailey would talk, but Coach Green

681
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 1: helped help. Coach helped us get him on a visit.

682
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: So he was flying from Midland to Dallas US. We

683
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: never beat him. We never saw him. So we're late

684
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: because Jimmy's doing something. And Jimmy had this little red

685
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: sports car, pretty cool, and he had a little jumper

686
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: seat in the back and it was a two seeded deal.

687
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: And we raced off to the airport and Jimmy just

688
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: used to park out front because they watch his car,

689
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:33,839
Speaker 1: they leave it out there. So we left it out

690
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,879
Speaker 1: this small airport we run in were lay for the flight.

691
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: I can't find him looking around and on a knapsack

692
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: and an army knapsack when an army had on is

693
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: this kids? And Jimmy looks over and said, I said,

694
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: I think that's him. He said, that's spud Web. You're fired.

695
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: I'm telling you you're fired, and he was serious. We

696
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: go over and said sput he went, nodded his head,

697
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 1: how are you doing this? Coach Vando? Coach be and

698
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: I'm time, I'm talking about a market yet not in

699
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: his head, talked a little bit. Put him in the

700
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: car and put his knapsack or a little bag in there,

701
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: and I'm in the back seat in the jumper seat

702
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: and I'm on Jimmy's side and Jimmy trying to talk

703
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: to him. He ain't talking. Jimmy's grabbing my leg and

704
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: hitting my leg. We drive over. We get him to

705
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 1: get him to school, visit with him. We get him

706
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: with the players and Jimmy said, are you kidding me?

707
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: That kid can't play? You kid me. We saw a

708
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: little bit of highlight tape on it. So we bring

709
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: him up with watching film with him. He's watching the

710
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: tape of uh Fell Wilson and some of the other

711
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: A SEC guards. He said, I'm better than it. That's

712
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: all he would saying I had a great visit. And

713
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: Jimmy said, look, the kid wants to come, but I

714
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: don't know. He said, I'm sending him back. I want

715
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: you to fly down and take a little bit. See

716
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: what you think. I went down there. I was amazed

717
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: when I saw could not trouble with his left hand,

718
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,879
Speaker 1: dunked the ball, shot threes. He was amazing. I took

719
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: a highlight tap back to Jimmy. We ended up getting

720
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 1: so in the future on ABC or NBC or wherever

721
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: game we're on. They'd always talked about where Alban said

722
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: he had fired me, and he he meant it. At

723
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: the time. He was upset because he spread was tiny,

724
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 1: but he's a terrific player. One of the dunk contests

725
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 1: in the NBA, played for what ten twelve years, played

726
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: for a bunch of teams and was terrific. Well, one

727
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: of the dunk contos. His hometown too was it was

728
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: that reunion arena um Lorenzo Charles. What was that experience? Like?

729
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: You know what? Lorenzo obviously passed the rest of soul.

730
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: He got in a car accident. I think he fell

731
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: asleep at the wheel. He was driving the tractor trailer

732
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: and it went off the road and he died. Some

733
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: people said it was a heart attack. They don't know

734
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: for sure. But Lorenzo was great, great kid, a great smile,

735
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: low key raymontin uh signed him before I got there,

736
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 1: and he was a Brooklyn kid, just a terrific, terrific

737
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: account uh hard. He had to motivate Low, he had

738
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: we called Low. He had to motivate him. And when

739
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: he when he got motivated, he was really a good player.

740
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: And the two guards Wittenberg and Low did a great

741
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: job of of motivating him. And he had he was

742
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 1: very good player for us, could shoot, shoot, shoot threes.

743
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: He he rebounded, just a great role player at the

744
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: fourth spot Um after he won the championship. There were there,

745
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: There was there was some down years, right like the

746
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 1: next year was it was it down here? Yeah? It

747
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 1: wasn't down here? What was? But what was it like

748
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: for for Jimmy? What was he liked? Was he always

749
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: you know he always had this positive outlook publicly privately?

750
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: What was he like? You know? What happened was we

751
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: we don't forget we had Spund there and we we

752
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: brought Spot in. And here's an interesting story. So Spun

753
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: The first game he plays against five Sama Jamma in

754
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: the in the whole finger, he throws in thirty. We

755
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: beat him. We go to Alaska shootout. We'd be at

756
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: Oklahoma to win the championship. Were ranked, we're ranked, We're like,

757
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: oh I get thirteen and three and it fell apart

758
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 1: and late in a year. Um, it was interesting. We

759
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: we had we had benched what was the second year

760
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: we've benched bud But but anyway, yeah, it was it

761
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: was a It was really a tough year. And we

762
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: lost to Florida State in the first round the n

763
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 1: I T and we lost like seven in a row,

764
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: and we still rated on the selection Sunday because we

765
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: thought were the national champs and we were ranked and

766
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: maybe we get a bit. We don't get a bit,

767
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: and Jimmy was really devastated about it. The team came

768
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: out flat and lost in the first round at home,

769
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: and it wasn't a great great year. How did you

770
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: get to lamar Ja? How do you what? How did

771
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 1: you get to lamar Ja? Oh? Lamar Ja? Interesting story.

772
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 1: There was a guy named hd Pate. He was a big, big,

773
00:39:54,480 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: big alumna there and for some reason I called down

774
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: there about the job and my name came out and

775
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,919
Speaker 1: the guy called Valvanoo. He loved Valvano and he talked

776
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: to him and he said, that's who we want to

777
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: be a coach. You know, he's Italian guy like you.

778
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: Just I think he'd be the guy. So I know

779
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: Billy Tubbs at the time was trying to get another

780
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: guy the job. Whatever. I went down and there were

781
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: three We had an interview three guys. Del Harris was

782
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: one famous coach that was an NBA coach, he just

783
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: lost his job at Houston. The other guy was Ronnie Arrow,

784
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: remember Ronnie Arrow, the Church Jack, good guy. And the

785
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: other coach was a famous high school coach and I

786
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: don't recall his name, but he was right down there.

787
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: So what they did is they brought all three of

788
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: us in, put us in the same room, and then

789
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 1: we had to go make a presentation to the committee,

790
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: which was about people. Now before the job, I knew

791
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: I was in great shape. I went in, you know,

792
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: uh Dell went in, he came back to the room,

793
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: Ronnie went in, I went in, I did my presentation,

794
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 1: the other guy went in and then I don't remember

795
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: how they did. They don't told us on the spot

796
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: we had the job. So I ended up getting the job,

797
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: and after my press conference was what was right then?

798
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: Uh A guy named Steve Rockford names rock He worked

799
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 1: with Texas A and M. Now yeah, yeah, rocks Gray.

800
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: Great recruiter. Now comes over to me outside. I just

801
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: leave my press comments, get my car, he said, Coach,

802
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 1: I got a seven footer. His name is Tree. He's

803
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: down to Tyler Junior College about three hours away. Yeah,

804
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: I understand. I just get the job out of my

805
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: press comments. This little guy comes running over. He wants

806
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: to bring me to see a seven. I said, let's go,

807
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 1: put me in the car. We drove three hours. The

808
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: coach had the kid worked out, and uh, you know,

809
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 1: we we we brought him back with us in an

810
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: official visit. I don't know where we brought it back

811
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: then or whatever, but we brought him back and and uh,

812
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: we ended up signing a kid. And you know that

813
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: was my first, my first signy and my first deal.

814
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: He ended up not being a very good player, but

815
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 1: we we ended up taking him because it was seven.

816
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: It's amazing, um right right right? And now you're so

817
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: you're in Beaumont, Texas. Yeah, Beau, what was that experience? Like? Well,

818
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: Bouman and I and I didn't hit it off great

819
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: to say, you know, my first year, I think we

820
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: won fifteen or what the games? I forgot with a

821
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: third in the league. Second year, we went twenty in eleven. Um.

822
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: Probably I had the whole team coming back except my

823
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: big kid James. Gully. Probably should have stayed because I

824
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: think I would have got a Southwest Conference job. Stayed

825
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 1: five years there and did a job, and I got Aunty,

826
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: and I didn't love the whole situation for myself, but

827
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: but we had some great wins there. We beat Oregon

828
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: in the Pac twelve, we beat Northwestern and the the

829
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: Big Ten. We went to Kentucky and lost. You know,

830
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: We're in the game that until the end and lost

831
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: by fifteen to coach Sutton. I never forget before that game,

832
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: I had just uh we had an upset TCU. By

833
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: the way, my second game as a head coach, our

834
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: first game was against St. Mary Buddy mott Meyer. He

835
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 1: upset us. He was a famous coach from St. Mary's

836
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: and I school beat us, and Rock and I went

837
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: in Texas. St. Mary's in Texas. After that game. That morning,

838
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: I used to I used to walk because I had

839
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: a hit per players. I couldn't run anymore, so Rock

840
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: walk with me. We're walking for about an hour, I said, Rock,

841
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: I made this mistake. Man shouldn't have taken his head job.

842
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: I shouldn't stay with me. Next game we had was TCU.

843
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: Jamie Dixon was a point guard and they had a

844
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: good team. And I'm walking with Rock and I said,

845
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: you know, Rock, I think what we're gonna do is

846
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: we're gonna forfeit this game. And he started laughing because

847
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: we just got, you know, upset at home and and

848
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: Lamar doesn't lose to any high school and I had

849
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 1: a big keep dealing was pretty good. I said, I

850
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: think what we're gonna do is we're gonna try ying

851
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: on to Jamie Dixon and the other guard I forget

852
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: who he was, and we're gonna switch defenses like Jimmy did.

853
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna call Jimmy today talk a little bit

854
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: about it, and uh, we'll see what happens. And Killing's

855
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: work was a coach. They were chewing one in the

856
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: n I T and they were ranked, so they come

857
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: in to Beaumont. We had about seven eight thousand people

858
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: there because we drew well and through the trying on

859
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: through to the one three and chase it when Dixon

860
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: was out of the game, I won three and chase

861
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 1: when the other guard came back in we should be

862
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 1: trying on two. We changed go through a little two

863
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: three zone a little too two ones, so impressed back

864
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: to the zone or the chaser and we upset them

865
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: beat him by twelve, which was a great win. And

866
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: like coach Sutton to Kentucky. So you're you're in your thirties,

867
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 1: is your first head coaching job. You're making how much

868
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: I think I made about I think it was about

869
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: eight year ninety and I'm not sure now I forget

870
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: it wasn't It wasn't a lot of I mean it

871
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: was a lot. Did you would you just rent an apartment?

872
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: Would you rent a house? Would you buy? Bought a house?

873
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: I bought a house every place? But now every place

874
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: you went, like when you got a house? Not every place,

875
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 1: but I bought I've been Yeah, we bought houses because

876
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: you get sell them quick then and I didn't know

877
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: what I was gonna say, but I bought a house

878
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 1: of moment. Yeah, did you buy houses at all these places?

879
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,399
Speaker 1: Not everyone? No, But I bought a house. And point

880
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: I bought the Chancellor's house in Momont, big house to

881
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,439
Speaker 1: nice house, yeah, because he was moving to another house.

882
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: So I bought his house. No houses and houses in

883
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: Texas were cheap those days. It was cheap? What is

884
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: what is cheap? But boy, I don't remember. But I didn't.

885
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't pay a lot a lot of money.

886
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: It was a three bedroom house. It was nice, it

887
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: was big, but I didn't pay a lot of money

888
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 1: for it wasn't like I had to break the bank

889
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: like you have to now. And when you buy a house, Um, okay,

890
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 1: what how did you How did you then go from

891
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 1: there to Drake? How they go from there to win?

892
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, lam Drake? Right, lam Well. I'm sitting in

893
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: my office one day and I get a call from

894
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: somebody saying, will you be interested in the Drake job?

895
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: It's a Missouri valley we had. You gotta understand. We

896
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: lose James Gully, he's a hell of a player, but

897
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: we have everybody else back. And I signed a kid

898
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 1: named Adrian Cardwell transfer for s m U. Now he

899
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: played in the NBA. Gully didn't get drafted, he got cut,

900
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: had some tryouts, and I had Cardwell. Carl Well wouldn't

901
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: have been as good a score as Gully, but we

902
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 1: would have been good again. And you know, thinking about it,

903
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: it was Missouri Valley. You know you had which to state.

904
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 1: You know, you had the the great teams. They were

905
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 1: on TV all the time. And I thought about it,

906
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: and you know, you know, I said, should I do

907
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: this or should I not do this? And I called

908
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: Larry Brown Up, who at the time I was good friends,

909
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: and Larry said, don't do it. I said, well, he said,

910
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: a guy named Morris john one, but he won with

911
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: with J. C. Kidds. And it's hard hard to get

912
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 1: kids in school. You really shouldn't take that job. I

913
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,320
Speaker 1: thought I was invincible at the time. You know, I

914
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: just won twenty games. I should have went to the

915
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 1: n i T that year, but but they took they

916
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 1: took Arkansas State instead. In our league, A league was

917
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,359
Speaker 1: the American Conference, and it was the old Sun Belt

918
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 1: that at Arkansas State, louisianatach New Orleans had some good teams,

919
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: but Arkansas State beat us two out of three. They

920
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: beat us in Hawaii and then we spent with them,

921
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: so they took them instead and we finished type what

922
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 1: it was, yes, second or third or whatever, And um,

923
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: I didn't get get to the n I T. And

924
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: I said, this steam, this league doesn't even have an

925
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,479
Speaker 1: automatic bid. You know, the Missouri Valley is a little

926
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 1: bigger time and at the time it was a better

927
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: conference than it was now. I grabbed the job. I

928
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: took it. Okay, So what now? What was that like

929
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 1: now in the middle of Iowa des Moines, Iowa UM

930
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: in the late eighties. Okay, you're what's your team like?

931
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: I inherit a team that's not a very good okay,

932
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: and we still I guess what we did is we

933
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: went twelve and seventeen, which is not not great obviously,

934
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: and we you know, we had a couple of good wins.

935
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: I think my first my first year, we beat Whichita

936
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: State in the No it was my second year we

937
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 1: didn't be We we beat Bradley my first year because

938
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: Eddie Fogo was a coach at with State in the tournament,

939
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 1: which was a big win for us because we hadn't

940
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: won a tournament game and it was on which Saw

941
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 1: State's court, and I you know, it was promising. Our

942
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: best player had blown out his uh, his knee in

943
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: the championship game. We played Tony Baroni's team Creighton, not

944
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: championship game in the second round game and we lost

945
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: and went home and uh, I mean we were. We

946
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 1: were optimistic about the second year. And to be perfectly

947
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: honest with you, Doug, what happened. I had some guys

948
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: meddling in my program, the old coach and a lawyer

949
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,760
Speaker 1: in town, and we were, I guess about eleven and eleven,

950
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 1: and we had like a little player uprising and a

951
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: little deal. So I stepped away. At the time, we

952
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: had upset Minnesota that year, who went to the final

953
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: final late. It was that inflection we played. I always

954
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: say to a double overtime game. We beat Which State

955
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: at home at their place, which was big, and and

956
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: the future I thought was bright. But then I had

957
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: this little guts come on somebody playing with my players

958
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: and making an accusation. So obviously I stepped away. And

959
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 1: then at the end of the year, I resigned and

960
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: I went to Colorado. And I would have stayed there,

961
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: and I think we could have won, I really do.

962
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: I think. Well, I think that at the end of

963
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: ye that year we finished with fifteen sixteen wins, which

964
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: would have been a big step, and then we would

965
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 1: have been fine. I would have stayed there, but obviously

966
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 1: had no choice, and I left and I went to

967
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: Colorado with Joe Harringtons, and I had no choice. They

968
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: basically they brought me out and and it was it

969
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: was a deal. That's that's what happened. What's that like

970
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 1: to go through where you're everything in your career is

971
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: going this way and now all of a sudden, not

972
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: even two years in, to lose the head coaching job.

973
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: What's that like to go through? Well, leaving Lamar roomed

974
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: my head coaching roomed me as a head coach. If

975
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 1: I stayed there, I think I could I could have

976
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: been successful because things were going in the right direction.

977
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 1: We were drawing. We drew for the mcneice's game at Lamar.

978
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: Ten thousand people said a record we were drawing. We

979
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,760
Speaker 1: drew seven thousand of my second year was was bettered

980
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 1: in Texas. Tommy Pennance was drawing and I made a

981
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 1: big mistake. I left and it was my immaturity. And yeah,

982
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 1: I went there and I was really really down, and

983
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 1: I was down, and I said, what am I gonna do?

984
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: And Uh, a matter of fact, I was at the

985
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 1: final four, didn't have a job, and my old friend

986
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: Rick Barnes said to me, how'd you like to go

987
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: with Joe Harrington's. I said, well, I loved it. You know,

988
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 1: I knew Joe very very well. Joe. I took Joe's

989
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: place at Mary and Joe hired me at Colorado. Do

990
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: you get there? And now you're in Boulder, great town,

991
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 1: but at the time like not really a basketball school

992
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: in in the big big um. Who are the first

993
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,399
Speaker 1: guys you went out and got? Well, the first guy

994
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: we got that was a big factor. You remember Kenny

995
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: Burma still passed right it used to be assistant at Arizona,

996
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 1: was at in corner were a very good friend of mine,

997
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: terrific guy. And Kevin O'Neil. You know Kevin O'Neal course

998
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,359
Speaker 1: he was at Marquette. They both backed away on a kid.

999
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 1: His name is Donnie Boyce. He was at the abc

1000
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,720
Speaker 1: D camp. I loved him, and they backed away because

1001
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: they thought he didn't play hard, which was a mistake.

1002
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 1: Donnie was just really smooth. Well, we signed on the

1003
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 1: Cora and he turned out to be a terrific player

1004
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: and we made two inn I T s. We should

1005
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: have made the n C A our first year. We

1006
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 1: just missed it. And then we made a couple of

1007
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 1: n I t Donnie went on to play for Atlanta Hawks,

1008
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: but he blew his he heard his knee, and that

1009
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,359
Speaker 1: killed his career. So he was going in the right direction. Uh.

1010
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: I left there to go to Rutgers because I can

1011
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 1: go back home. Bob and so and I were friends,

1012
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 1: and I thought it was a good move because I

1013
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 1: thought it would be hard to win it in Colorado.

1014
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:06,919
Speaker 1: But I love my years of Colorado, my first thing

1015
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 1: in Colorado, and and we had we had a lot

1016
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: of fun, but it was a hard job because you

1017
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: were in the league. You knew that. Um I was

1018
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 1: also in the league in the Big East. When the

1019
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: first ever Big East game between Notre Dame and Rutgers,

1020
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: who played you guys at the rack, alright, and I

1021
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 1: think we had a fourteen point lead in the second

1022
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: half and lost. And Jeff Billett was your freshman point

1023
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: guard Christian Brothers. Right now, he's now coaching. He's coaching,

1024
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: and I'm blanket with high school in New Jersey. And

1025
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: and Jeff. You know, Jeff and I have communicated, but

1026
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: I haven't. I hadn't. I hadn't seen him since I've

1027
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: been here, obviously because of COVID. Yeah, he so he

1028
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: apparently he wanted to go. They used him to get

1029
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 1: me to sign Notre Dame. So I visited Notre Dame.

1030
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: I loved it, and I was supposed to visit Michigan

1031
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: State with tractor trailer tractor trailers in piece he he uh.

1032
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 1: He committed to Michigan the week before I was going

1033
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: to visit and Notre Dame kind of I visited U

1034
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,320
Speaker 1: c l A. And Notre Dame kind of was like, hey, listen,

1035
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: it's your scholarship. But Jeff Billett wants to go there,

1036
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: come here, and he's visiting in three weeks. Once he

1037
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: visits here, it's whoever takes a scholarship first. So I

1038
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 1: took it anyway, played against him. And what I remember

1039
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 1: about the rack was the worst visitors locker room I've

1040
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: ever seen. It was like a like a tunnel. It

1041
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: was so tight and there was like a one bench

1042
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 1: you could sit on and then old school metal lockers. Um.

1043
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: I just remember going like, this is the Big East.

1044
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 1: This is terrible. But place did get loud and we

1045
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 1: we found a way to kind of dump a game.

1046
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 1: And so the next day, so in the second half,

1047
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: I shout an airball free thill on and I've been

1048
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 1: always been a good free throw shooter my entire upbringing.

1049
00:53:58,600 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 1: You know, I just held the ball at the end

1050
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: a big game and then I made the next one.

1051
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 1: And so the way McLeod would work Cloud work was

1052
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: we never call you out or talk to your person

1053
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:11,839
Speaker 1: about your your own game in front of the rest

1054
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: of the team. He would set up a meeting and

1055
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: you come in. So I got back to South Bend

1056
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: and there was the blinking red light on my phone,

1057
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, a lot like a hotel. That's how the

1058
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 1: phones were on campus of Notre Dame. And there was

1059
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: a message from his secretary, hate coach McLoud once to

1060
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 1: meet you tomorrow morning, ten o'clock in his office. You know,

1061
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 1: please come. I mean, this is how this is how

1062
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: much he said the meetings. Please come wearing your team sweats,

1063
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: you know. And so if you had your team sweats,

1064
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 1: I means you had to be clean shaven, you know,

1065
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: you're not like walking in it was good like it

1066
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: wasn't like that. So we sat down and he's like,

1067
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,800
Speaker 1: you know, coffee, water, tea, anything you want? Do you do?

1068
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:52,399
Speaker 1: You want to look at something. So I'm thinking we're

1069
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,439
Speaker 1: gonna look at the game. You know what went wrong,

1070
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: and we watched my free throw over and over and

1071
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: over and over again. They take me out to the

1072
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 1: gym and he had called Denny Price, who was like

1073
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: his shot doctors assistant coach from the Oklahoma days. And

1074
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,439
Speaker 1: keep mind coach mcconde did not play basketball, so he's

1075
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:15,879
Speaker 1: like second hand, second handing tell me, I mean, he's

1076
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,760
Speaker 1: having me shoot you and believe it. But I remember,

1077
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:23,479
Speaker 1: like I remember playing against us and watching those Rutgers teams.

1078
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: What was it like for you guys to try and

1079
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: put together a Big East team at Rutgers when you know,

1080
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 1: I mean, look, we had Notre Dame behind us, and

1081
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: we were okay, but it was it was hard because

1082
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 1: the league was so good. Right my your second year,

1083
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 1: my first year, Iverson's and all those guys are at

1084
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: Johidi White and Drove Williams, they're at Georgetown. Yukon's like

1085
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 1: the best or second best team in the country. They

1086
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 1: got Ray Allen and all those Travis Night whatever. Syracuse

1087
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 1: was the fourth best team in the league. They go

1088
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 1: to the finals a right, Villanova has Kittles and Ebers

1089
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 1: and Lawson and Chuck Cornegie and all those guys alb Williams.

1090
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 1: What was it like then to try and put together

1091
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 1: a big East team at Rutgers. Well, remember Timmy Thomas

1092
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: was coming up then, okay, and and you know we

1093
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:16,359
Speaker 1: had Billet and Hodgson. They were good players, and really

1094
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 1: we needed to get Timmy Thomas, okay. And the problem

1095
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 1: with that was there were a lot of people who

1096
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 1: want to get Timmy. And I think Timmy I wanted

1097
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 1: to play at Rutgers. He liked Rush. He came to

1098
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 1: a lot of our games, the ward you know they

1099
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: put up science from um. There were like five or

1100
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 1: six guys that would have come with him had he come. Uh.

1101
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 1: It came down to to the end where Bob wins

1102
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 1: On I are in the Highatt Hotel, who I believe

1103
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 1: as work, and there was a particular guy that was

1104
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 1: there and I'm not gonna say who, but Bob had

1105
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: to hire a certain guy to get Timmy. Okay. Now,

1106
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 1: if you hired him in any position, Timmy probably would

1107
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: have Kime. And then five or six other guys were kid.

1108
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 1: So I'm with Bob and the workout room, and I

1109
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: thought I was going to get the Lamar job. Then

1110
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: about the okay, I started getting and I told Bob that,

1111
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 1: uh no, no, I was gonna get I was gonna

1112
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: get I was going to get the know the sack

1113
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: stage job. I thought I was gonna get sack stage

1114
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 1: so I was gonna get my next head job. I'm sorry,

1115
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to say that, lamar, but I thought

1116
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: I was going to get the sack stage. And I

1117
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 1: told Bob. I said, Bob, you know you hired Timmy.

1118
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 1: I mean, you hired extent get Timmy. It's it's a

1119
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 1: great deal. Bob said, I'm not gonna hire somebody to

1120
00:57:54,320 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: get a player. That was really because I guess how

1121
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 1: how many times? How often? Um, during all these days,

1122
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: because you think, I think of seventies and eighties recruiting

1123
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: New York, the Atlantic Coast. Everybody has this image of

1124
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 1: it of dirty recruiting. What's it like in terms of

1125
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 1: how many times percentage of guys that are asking for

1126
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 1: something above and beyond that of a scholarship? Right? Uh?

1127
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 1: During during this era seventies and eighties and nineties, I

1128
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: think it was more it was more middle guys that

1129
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 1: we're looking for stuff, you know, middle people. Uh. I

1130
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 1: think that cheating in college basketball has always been there

1131
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: has just been different levels in different ways. You know.

1132
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 1: Obviously obviously right now we're going through a time with

1133
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: a lot of things happened and a lot of programs

1134
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: are going through the scrutiny. I just think, I think

1135
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: sometimes it's overrated how many teams are doing things or

1136
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 1: not doing things, you know, I think players not so

1137
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 1: much players looking for for things other than maybe the

1138
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 1: people that are involved with players, whether it be parents

1139
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: or other people involved. Does it if you the I

1140
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 1: have a majority of it. I have a those are

1141
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 1: the ones actually have the issue with, right because it's

1142
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: not the player actually benefiting. It's some like middle dude.

1143
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 1: Are they that influential though? Like if you take care

1144
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 1: of those people, do you actually always get the player?

1145
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 1: I think I think in certain instances. It happens. In

1146
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: certain instances. I don't even know if the kid knows,

1147
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: you know, I just don't know. I don't I don't know.

1148
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: I mean when we were at NC State, Okay, we

1149
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 1: did not sign big name players. We signed Nate McMillan,

1150
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 1: he would you know. The biggest name kid we signed

1151
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 1: was Walter Lamb. Yet he didn't turn out to be

1152
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 1: really good players. The guys the guys. He was a

1153
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: McDonald's All American and made he also. I think the

1154
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: guys we signed were all under the radars, Bud Web uh,

1155
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 1: you know, Uh Shackleford, Chucky Brown, they were all guys

1156
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: who were out of camp and stuff. We didn't get

1157
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 1: the big name guys at State. We got guys that

1158
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: that under the radar, that developed some of the programs.

1159
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 1: Carolina normally got the big name guys because it was Carolina.

1160
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 1: They did um and Duke came on with Coach k

1161
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: and then he started getting the big game guys. But

1162
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: were at State, we never got really big name recruits.

1163
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 1: You know. Chris Washburn was one. He was He was

1164
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: a big name recruit and obviously he had some problems,

1165
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 1: but he was a great talent. What was that like

1166
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 1: to manage Washburn? What was it like to manage It

1167
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 1: was hard? I mean, I mean Chris was an immature

1168
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: kid and he was a great talent. And I'll never

1169
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 1: forget that. The game we played against Louisville on National TV,

1170
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: he had nineteen points, nineteen rebounds, was unbelievable, blocks and stuff,

1171
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 1: just us a real talent, you know, Christmas at the time,

1172
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 1: an immature kid and things didn't work out for him.

1173
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: He's doing well now. I think he owns a restaurant

1174
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 1: down in Hickory. Obviously it's pro career didn't work out well,

1175
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 1: and uh, you know he went hardshipp he left and

1176
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 1: he had some personal issues and I think he's cleaned

1177
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 1: them up now. Um around this time, Uh, Jimmy gets sick. Right, Well,

1178
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 1: I wasn't there when Jimmy got sick. No, I know,

1179
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 1: I know when when he got sick. What was that

1180
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 1: because it's not just that he got sick, it's that

1181
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 1: you had this amazing personality, like he's one of you,

1182
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 1: just incredible as everybody's seen the sp speeches, but there's

1183
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 1: been other speeches, and he did a talk show. I mean,

1184
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 1: the guy was amazingly talented. But two to see your

1185
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: friend go through his fight with cancer. But but well,

1186
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: where were you during the time and what was it

1187
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 1: like for you at the time. I was at the

1188
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 1: time Tim that he had he got cancer. I believe,

1189
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 1: I believe I was at Colorado. I wasn't Colonel, And

1190
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 1: I remember I called him. I was an assistant to

1191
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: Colorado and he said, I just found out I got

1192
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 1: bone cancer. I have one year to live, and he

1193
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 1: started crying, and he cried for a while, and he

1194
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 1: was in his office and you know, he was beside himself,

1195
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: and we talked for a little while and then obviously

1196
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 1: I want to visit him sometimes. And he fought it,

1197
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 1: and to this to this day, he probably believed he

1198
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: could beat it. He thought he could beat it. He

1199
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 1: really did. But when they caught the cancer it was

1200
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 1: too late. He just had he was having pains in

1201
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 1: his growing and he went in and they found cancer.

1202
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 1: It's interesting. I mean, obviously you knew him as well

1203
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 1: as anybody because from to two stints with him, Um,

1204
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 1: if you had to, you mentioned he's a great game coach.

1205
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 1: You mentioned all the other things he wanted to do. Um.

1206
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 1: Was he ever off? Like in terms of when I

1207
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 1: say off, I mean when the camera was on he

1208
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 1: had this unbelievable presence. But was there when he was

1209
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 1: he ever able to just shut it off and be

1210
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 1: kind of calm and quiet and not not always be

1211
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:27,480
Speaker 1: the center. Because I remember final fours when he was alive,

1212
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 1: which my dad would take me up to the Nike

1213
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 1: suite and he was holding court there. Yea, is that

1214
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: was that always his thing? Like? Was he always on? Yeah,

1215
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 1: he was always on, but he would get down. He

1216
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 1: would get down. He'd get down, and where he would

1217
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: get down is in front of his closest friends. There

1218
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 1: was a guy named George Tarantini was a soccer coach

1219
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 1: at State. We spent a lot of time with who's

1220
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 1: Who's pastor of a heart attack. There was a Sam

1221
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 1: Esposito who was baseball coach at the time that we

1222
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 1: go in his office every morning at eight o'clock and

1223
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 1: we just even earlier and we did have coffee and

1224
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 1: tell jokes and and and a lot of funny things

1225
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 1: would happen. I'll tell you a great story about Sam.

1226
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 1: Sam as the basebook coach and he's trying to he's

1227
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 1: trying to recruit this kid who's the number one player

1228
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: I guess in North Carolina. And we we'd have fun together,

1229
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 1: you know, Jimmy and I would would always joke and

1230
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 1: uh sometimes we'd wrestle. Okay, Jimmy, come and want to

1231
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:30,919
Speaker 1: wrestle me in the hall and funny your true story.

1232
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 1: So one day Sam's dressing his jacket and tie. He's

1233
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 1: got this this recruit coming up. And Sam was the

1234
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: short sop for this White Sox and was Norm Soun's assistant,

1235
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:43,360
Speaker 1: and he's Sam is a great, great guy. We'd have

1236
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 1: a lot of laughs. So Jimmy and Jimmy comes in,

1237
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 1: so I'm opinion that's what would say, come and want

1238
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: to wrestle me. And he's getting me to the ground

1239
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 1: trying to pin me, and Sam's joking. He's a referee,

1240
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 1: so he's going one on the floor, on the floor,

1241
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: throwing your pin. Sam turns around, looks up and as

1242
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: the kid, the kid and his mom and dad guess

1243
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: what he didn't get that kid. That's a true story.

1244
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 1: And I mean we we'd have a lot of we'd

1245
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 1: have a lot of fun like that. You know what

1246
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,280
Speaker 1: Jimmy and I would do with Sam is Sam was

1247
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 1: the compliance director and the baseball coach. Ray Tanna, who's

1248
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 1: now the athletic director at South Carolina was his assistant

1249
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 1: and became the baseball coach. As he said, so Sam

1250
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:27,600
Speaker 1: would fall asleep with his feet on his desk and

1251
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:30,040
Speaker 1: he's leading. He leave his door a little cracked open,

1252
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 1: so Jimmy would say bring his phone. Jimmy would run

1253
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 1: over to watch Sam as he rang his phone jump

1254
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: because he was sleeping. They jumped. So we do crazy

1255
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 1: little things like that and we had fun and he was, uh,

1256
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 1: you know, Jimmy was a different guy. He's a joke still.

1257
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 1: He was dynamic personality, but he liked to have fun

1258
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:55,440
Speaker 1: and he had his his down time's obviously, and certain

1259
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 1: people would see not everybody, um that you go take

1260
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 1: the Sack State chap. Yeah, and um what was that like? Well,

1261
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 1: here's what happened. Obviously, I've lost my job at Drake

1262
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 1: and I want any think I would get a job again.

1263
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:14,720
Speaker 1: The a d at sex date was a lady named

1264
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 1: Judith Davids, a wonderful lady who I got to know

1265
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 1: because I interviewed at a job at Central Connecticut when

1266
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 1: I was trying to get back into and she took

1267
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: the sack State job. And sax State was just gone

1268
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:29,800
Speaker 1: division one on the Donnie Newman who was who since

1269
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 1: passed and really struggled. So I think it was the

1270
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: second year we're gonna be a division one. And Judith

1271
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: called me and we talked about taking a job and

1272
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 1: and and she almost hired another coach, it doesn't matter who.

1273
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 1: Dick Vital and uh and uh Digger Phelps helped me

1274
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 1: get the job over the hump, uh, and I took

1275
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 1: the sack stage job, and it was very, very difficult job.

1276
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 1: They didn't have a lot of money at the time,

1277
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 1: they didn't really have an arena to play in a

1278
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 1: smaller gym. And to make it even better, it was

1279
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 1: in March and they had one player that was eligible

1280
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 1: on scholarship when I took the job late March, so

1281
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: it was it was an experience, but I was just

1282
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 1: happy to get a head job again, to get a chance.

1283
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:15,439
Speaker 1: And it's a beautiful campus and it's a great town living.

1284
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 1: So I went there and I had to sign some

1285
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 1: guys and most of them will walk on and guys

1286
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 1: that were not very good, and you know, it was

1287
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:28,200
Speaker 1: a tough situation. And that's what I brought your brother

1288
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:31,240
Speaker 1: in and we we had we had a tough tough

1289
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:35,120
Speaker 1: first year, uh. But you know, eventually we were going

1290
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 1: good and things were getting better. Unfortunately, I lost your

1291
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 1: brother would hurt me a lot because I didn't have

1292
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 1: very money, meant very much money for assistance. I think

1293
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 1: I gave him like fifty thousand. He went to went

1294
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 1: for a lot more money at San Dieo STA. So

1295
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 1: losing him, I lost that continuity of my staff. And

1296
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 1: you know, obviously there was a woman's volleyball coach there

1297
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 1: that became a d that didn't like me very much,

1298
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 1: and she made the change. And and really my I

1299
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 1: think we were one like my third year, eleven or

1300
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:08,200
Speaker 1: ten games, and we we we had everybody back, would

1301
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 1: have won fifteen or twenty next year. I really believe that.

1302
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 1: And she pulled the plug on me. So therefore I

1303
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 1: lost that job. And then I went to work for

1304
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 1: UH the Sacramental Kings. Um you went to her for

1305
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 1: the Kings and then for the Monarchs. Well, what happened

1306
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 1: was the two owners, who were Joe and Gavin Mlouf,

1307
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:31,639
Speaker 1: who were who are my closest friends and and helped

1308
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: support the program at sac State, they gave me a job,

1309
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 1: gave a job in UH events. So I worked in events,

1310
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 1: and eventually I moved into doing some radio. So I

1311
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 1: did the free game in the postgame show they called

1312
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 1: the Coach State, and I did the events also. And

1313
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 1: what happened was a guy named John Widded, who was

1314
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:59,560
Speaker 1: normal Ellenberg's assistant at New Mexico for years, came in

1315
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 1: as no manager of the mines and the woman's coach

1316
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 1: there wasn't doing very well, and John and I got

1317
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 1: to know each other a little bit. And when John

1318
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 1: took the job as a head coach, he called me

1319
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 1: up and said, you want to come. I'll get them

1320
01:09:15,400 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 1: loose they get to hire you and then you don't

1321
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:20,799
Speaker 1: have to do events anymore. So I did the Monarchs

1322
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 1: in the summer and I did the radio and the Winner,

1323
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:25,280
Speaker 1: so I had two different hours. It was a great

1324
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:26,439
Speaker 1: way to go and I had a lot of fun

1325
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: coaching the w NBA woman with tremendous they were good players.

1326
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 1: They you know, we went to uh two championship games.

1327
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 1: We won one championship. We had a lot of fun

1328
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, traveling and hanging with them loose

1329
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 1: was was awesome. Was unbelievable. Um you also during that time, Okay,

1330
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 1: then you went when went back to college for one year,

1331
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:50,640
Speaker 1: didn't She went to Utah with the Jeers And what

1332
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 1: happened there was coach called me and want to hire me,

1333
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:57,599
Speaker 1: and I wanted to go, a famous coach, and I went.

1334
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:03,080
Speaker 1: And the problem that happened there was, uh, we had Bogan.

1335
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:07,439
Speaker 1: We had a good team, but there was some issues

1336
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 1: with coaches help and he bailed out like towards the

1337
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:13,080
Speaker 1: end of the year. I think we were twelve and

1338
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:15,080
Speaker 1: four at the time, and Terry Rupp took over the

1339
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:16,639
Speaker 1: team and we went to the n s A tournament.

1340
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:20,920
Speaker 1: We lost super Due and then obviously boom, they don't

1341
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:23,320
Speaker 1: hire carry, So I'm out of a job. So I

1342
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 1: just went back to work at with the Kids Organization

1343
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:28,760
Speaker 1: because I was close with the with the Bolus and

1344
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 1: I was able to do that. And I did that.

1345
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:32,920
Speaker 1: I went back to the w n b A and

1346
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:34,640
Speaker 1: then you worked for the Big Horns as well. Then

1347
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 1: you went to the Yeah, what basically happened was I

1348
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 1: wanted to get in back. I wanted to get into

1349
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:44,599
Speaker 1: men's side, and basically the louse said, if you want

1350
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 1: to get into scouting or doing something, you gotta do

1351
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 1: something else with the men's side. Well, Jeff Peach was

1352
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:50,679
Speaker 1: at GM at the time. He had no spots open.

1353
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 1: So what I did is I gave up my radio

1354
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 1: for the Winner and I went to work for Jay

1355
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 1: Humphrey for the Reno Big Hons, which was a tremendous experience.

1356
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 1: I had a lot of fun. We started on the

1357
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 1: season off I guess about one and twelve and we

1358
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 1: end up almost made the playoffs, and after one year,

1359
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:09,760
Speaker 1: I went back to doing my radio because I did

1360
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:11,560
Speaker 1: what I was supposed to do, and then I was

1361
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 1: able to get a scouting position. Now it's interesting though,

1362
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 1: like right, like the strength of of of what you

1363
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 1: had built as an assistant always been recruiting, and when

1364
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 1: you're in the D League, it's not about recruiting that

1365
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 1: and it's about coaching and keeping guys motivated because anybody's

1366
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 1: played minor league basketball knows that it literally nobody wants

1367
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:32,120
Speaker 1: to be there, right you all, everybody wants to take

1368
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:34,560
Speaker 1: the next step to something bigger, but you have to

1369
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:36,840
Speaker 1: get him, at least for the forty eight minutes of

1370
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:40,719
Speaker 1: the game to play together, even if really their goals

1371
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 1: are their personal goals more than than team goes. That's

1372
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:45,600
Speaker 1: that's gotta be hard to coach, but you're trying to

1373
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 1: win to keep your job, and they and the players,

1374
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 1: though they think they want to win first and foremost

1375
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 1: is their own personal performance. Well, it was hard. But

1376
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:57,000
Speaker 1: the thing the thing about the D League go to

1377
01:11:57,120 --> 01:11:59,719
Speaker 1: G League now it's gotten bigger, is that they waived

1378
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:01,800
Speaker 1: got right away and they bring new guys in so

1379
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:04,880
Speaker 1: guys know, if they don't conform or they have a

1380
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 1: bad attitude, they're gone the next day. So we had

1381
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:11,760
Speaker 1: an assistant coach that handled just play a personnel. He

1382
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:13,720
Speaker 1: also helped on the floor and I did a lot

1383
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 1: of scouting. And all we did scouting was we one

1384
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:18,360
Speaker 1: or two games. I mean, we traveled all the time.

1385
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 1: I actually had a lot of fun and I enjoyed

1386
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 1: it for the one year I made. I think for

1387
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 1: that little time. I made about thirty thousand during that period.

1388
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:28,639
Speaker 1: But also had my monic Sallary, so I was okay.

1389
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:31,040
Speaker 1: I gave up my radio Saturday to take that and

1390
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 1: it was fun. It was a lot of fun because

1391
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 1: I lived in my wife stayed in Sacramento, and I

1392
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:39,680
Speaker 1: just community. I go home some weekends. Some weekends I

1393
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:42,760
Speaker 1: couldn't get there because the snow hit the pass and

1394
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:45,880
Speaker 1: you couldn't get through. Yeah. I just had a fun time.

1395
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 1: I knew I was gonna do it for one year

1396
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:49,439
Speaker 1: and that's what I wanted to do, and the experience

1397
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:52,320
Speaker 1: was unbelievable. Glad to get back in the college game

1398
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:57,080
Speaker 1: because I always love college basketball. That's me, that's called

1399
01:12:57,160 --> 01:13:02,439
Speaker 1: I love. I love college basketball, and uh Jeff Buzzell

1400
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 1: gave me a chance to come back to Colorado and

1401
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:06,560
Speaker 1: go to Colorado. Wanta did it, and I went to

1402
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:11,040
Speaker 1: Colorado with him and it was very interesting. Uh. I

1403
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:13,720
Speaker 1: was there for I was there for one month that

1404
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:17,919
Speaker 1: he left and he left to go and Steve McClane,

1405
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 1: who was who's now Georgia, was there also, And I

1406
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:25,240
Speaker 1: never forget the call I got. It was from Steve.

1407
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 1: He said, look, Jeff's going to uh wait for us.

1408
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 1: I was taking us with him, isn't he He said

1409
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:33,240
Speaker 1: he can. He's got to keep the staff. That's staff.

1410
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:35,840
Speaker 1: It's part of the deal. So I said, well, are

1411
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 1: you gonna get the job? He said, If I get

1412
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 1: the job, I'll keep you. I don't know, get the job.

1413
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 1: He said. If I don't get the job, I'm going

1414
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:44,720
Speaker 1: to Indiana. So everybody was set. Well. To make a

1415
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 1: long story short, um, they didn't hire Steve. He went

1416
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:51,840
Speaker 1: to Indiana with Tom Green and I was stuck there

1417
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:54,479
Speaker 1: and Tad Mood came in. So Tad comes in and

1418
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:58,080
Speaker 1: he meets with me. He said, no'll tell me what's

1419
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:00,960
Speaker 1: going on. He said, Uh. I said, I'd like to stay.

1420
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 1: He said, yeah. I said, I'm an awkal position. I said,

1421
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:09,880
Speaker 1: I signed a contract and obviously, uh, you know I'd

1422
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:11,639
Speaker 1: like to stay with you. He said, well, I don't

1423
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:13,840
Speaker 1: know you you have a good reputation. I don't know.

1424
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:16,639
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I could keep you, and uh, we'll

1425
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:18,840
Speaker 1: see what happens. I said, I'm bringing two guys in

1426
01:14:20,280 --> 01:14:22,680
Speaker 1: and there are my guys, and I'm gonna leave the

1427
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:24,880
Speaker 1: position open. I said, fine. I said, look, coach, I'll

1428
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 1: help you. I'll stay here and help you do the

1429
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:30,640
Speaker 1: best we can. Um, I'll help you, will clean up

1430
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:32,599
Speaker 1: your creel or whatever. And then the school came back

1431
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:34,320
Speaker 1: to me and said, you could stay a year in

1432
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:37,960
Speaker 1: a position, and you know, you stay here and then

1433
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:40,400
Speaker 1: at the end of the year you can go. You

1434
01:14:40,439 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 1: got you one year. We're gonna take care of you,

1435
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:45,519
Speaker 1: because obviously you know Jeff had left and I wasn't

1436
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:47,519
Speaker 1: gonna do that. I didn't tell them that time. I

1437
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:49,840
Speaker 1: was going back to the to the uh my job

1438
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:53,760
Speaker 1: with the with the King's Organization. Uh. I talked to

1439
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:57,800
Speaker 1: Doc Sadler maybe going to Nebraska and the funny thing

1440
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 1: I just worked and kid named Andrea Robison I was

1441
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:07,000
Speaker 1: recruiting for for Jeff, and he came up on an

1442
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:09,800
Speaker 1: unofficial visit with it with his coaching, I helped coach

1443
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:12,320
Speaker 1: get him. Obviously, he played in the NBA. He was

1444
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 1: a terfic player for Okay se Ntil he blew his knee,

1445
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:19,280
Speaker 1: a turfic defensive player. And one day Dad came in

1446
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 1: and said, I want to keep your year to year.

1447
01:15:23,479 --> 01:15:25,280
Speaker 1: He said, you've done a good job and keep it.

1448
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:26,880
Speaker 1: And I was happy to do that and stay there.

1449
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:29,479
Speaker 1: And I stayed there with him and we had a

1450
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:33,280
Speaker 1: great run. Was what was Spencer Dim? What you like?

1451
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:36,000
Speaker 1: When he first saw here's the deal with Spencer Din?

1452
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 1: What he would happen with us? I felt that we

1453
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:43,080
Speaker 1: needed to recruit l A. And that's what's made Colorado

1454
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:46,680
Speaker 1: bet At a job. Uh. The assistance that were there, Uh,

1455
01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 1: John Trilo and Mike Rohan new Texas really well. So

1456
01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:52,439
Speaker 1: they really spent a lot of time in Texas. And

1457
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 1: coach was coach Boyle, You'd go anyway. He didn't care.

1458
01:15:55,560 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 1: So I spent a lot of time not going to

1459
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:00,640
Speaker 1: the big events, but in l A. Just see in

1460
01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:02,320
Speaker 1: the l A event, you know all those events, you

1461
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 1: know tragons, I mean you've got all the different guys,

1462
01:16:06,120 --> 01:16:09,599
Speaker 1: you got all the different events, and I just went

1463
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:12,200
Speaker 1: to all those smaller events and and I kind of

1464
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:15,120
Speaker 1: like Spencer, but Boyle came in and loved them, and

1465
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 1: we recruited. We recruit him hard. I spent the whole

1466
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 1: summer chasing him around and about two of two or

1467
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 1: three other guys, and uh, we ended up getting those

1468
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:26,160
Speaker 1: radar l A guys. And and of course Tad was

1469
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:28,880
Speaker 1: a big part of it. Tad was a terrific recruiter

1470
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:30,479
Speaker 1: and did a good job. But I think we helped.

1471
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:33,760
Speaker 1: We got some good players Din Woody and and uh

1472
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:36,840
Speaker 1: we got Josh Scott out of Colorado. We gotta ski

1473
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:39,240
Speaker 1: a book, and we as a staff, we got some

1474
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:46,040
Speaker 1: very good players and turned nothing, turned nothing completely around. Um,

1475
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 1: well you know, when you know, I'll tell you a

1476
01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 1: great story about Colorado. So I'm sitting in my living

1477
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:53,120
Speaker 1: room the other night and I'm watching the nixt play

1478
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:55,760
Speaker 1: and my wife and I said, and I have watched

1479
01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:58,360
Speaker 1: a lot of Nick games this year, and I really

1480
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 1: like coach Tibotham, but Nate nick Millan, who I helped

1481
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 1: recruited at that state, he's the coach of the next

1482
01:17:04,360 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 1: I mean that the Atlanta, the Atlantic. So I'm watching

1483
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:09,920
Speaker 1: Daden and going against coach Tibbs, and I'm watching and

1484
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, his kid hits a shot. My

1485
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:16,759
Speaker 1: wife said, it looks like Alex Berks, I said. Alex

1486
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:20,120
Speaker 1: Bariss in Colorado said, yeah, I had no idea he

1487
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:22,759
Speaker 1: was there, and he ended up having like twenty points.

1488
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:25,200
Speaker 1: And we'll laugh at our brains out. So at the

1489
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 1: end of the game, I don't know who to root

1490
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 1: for because I love coach Thibodeau and and Nate's my guy,

1491
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:31,920
Speaker 1: and then I got Birks there and we're just kind

1492
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:33,439
Speaker 1: of watching the game. We'll laughing. So at the end

1493
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:35,599
Speaker 1: of the game, I texted Nate, you know, great win.

1494
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:38,479
Speaker 1: I text Berks Burks I never heard back from because

1495
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:40,280
Speaker 1: Nate Nat of course got me back, and I don't

1496
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:42,880
Speaker 1: know Coach Tibodeaux. I was excited to day, but I

1497
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:45,600
Speaker 1: felt bad for the next And it's a it's a

1498
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:48,200
Speaker 1: funny deal. Right there in New York is our guy,

1499
01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 1: Alex Burk's that played for us, And uh, you know,

1500
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:52,680
Speaker 1: I hope Alex uses this, so maybe you'll give me

1501
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:56,240
Speaker 1: a call return my because he didn't, but they of

1502
01:17:56,320 --> 01:18:00,160
Speaker 1: course did. But it's a it's a funny deal. With Uh,

1503
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:01,920
Speaker 1: when you've been in it as long as I had

1504
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 1: a different connection, you have different people. Um, how did

1505
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:09,160
Speaker 1: you get back with Coach Bettina? How to take me

1506
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:13,200
Speaker 1: through where you were? How it how it happened? Okay,

1507
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:18,080
Speaker 1: you know I didn't know coach that well. I knew him,

1508
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:19,640
Speaker 1: but I didn't know him. I tried to get a

1509
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 1: job with him when he almost went to Vegas and

1510
01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:24,960
Speaker 1: he went to Indiana. Coach Dicky b try to help me.

1511
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:30,040
Speaker 1: It just didn't work out. Uh. Interesting, Um, I'm talking

1512
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:31,960
Speaker 1: to a couple of his friends. It doesn't matter who,

1513
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:35,920
Speaker 1: because I'd rather not mention it. Uh. And they said,

1514
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:38,560
Speaker 1: you know, coach may come back in. I said, you know,

1515
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:40,640
Speaker 1: if he does mention, i'd be interested. Because I was

1516
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:43,160
Speaker 1: not working. I didn't go with Joe Dooley to East Carolina.

1517
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:45,040
Speaker 1: I thought I was going to go doing all the

1518
01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:47,200
Speaker 1: school it doesn't matter where. But I didn't get the job,

1519
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:51,400
Speaker 1: so I was just kind of in Florida. I was staying.

1520
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:54,240
Speaker 1: I had put all my stuff in storage because I

1521
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:56,120
Speaker 1: thought I was going to this other job that fell through.

1522
01:18:56,640 --> 01:18:59,560
Speaker 1: So I was two years just living there and and

1523
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:03,080
Speaker 1: and my two dogs, my wife and all the alligators

1524
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:06,200
Speaker 1: we had alligators crawling all over place. It was incredible

1525
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:09,559
Speaker 1: in Florida. And I got a call and said, would

1526
01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:11,320
Speaker 1: you be interested to get back in it. Coach is

1527
01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:15,960
Speaker 1: looking for a veteran guy. Would you be interested? I said, yeah,

1528
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 1: Kidney work with Petina. He said he's gonna get a job.

1529
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:24,040
Speaker 1: It's a where they wouldn't tell me. So I said, yeah,

1530
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:26,599
Speaker 1: I'll be interested. Now you understand, I started my career

1531
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 1: at my own obviously. So I get this call and

1532
01:19:30,120 --> 01:19:34,160
Speaker 1: Coach calls me from from Grace. He's working in a

1533
01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 1: yearly by the way to call it. The call with

1534
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 1: the call back I made from post me a hundred

1535
01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:41,600
Speaker 1: bucks because I was dumb enough not to to go

1536
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:43,760
Speaker 1: on WhatsApp or whatever I call, I call him back.

1537
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:46,320
Speaker 1: But we talked two or three times and we hit

1538
01:19:46,360 --> 01:19:49,360
Speaker 1: it off. And what he was looking for I was

1539
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:51,960
Speaker 1: a veteran guy that could recruit, and he wanted a

1540
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:54,160
Speaker 1: guy would experience and he was going to hire some

1541
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:56,080
Speaker 1: other younger guys, which you did or who were here

1542
01:19:56,439 --> 01:20:00,200
Speaker 1: terrific And it worked out really really well, and uh,

1543
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:04,240
Speaker 1: you know the first three months we worked together, we

1544
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:07,360
Speaker 1: did it all on zoom calls and on on conference

1545
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:09,439
Speaker 1: calls and that's how we have to sign players. But

1546
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:13,120
Speaker 1: since I've been here, I can say this, he's by

1547
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:17,200
Speaker 1: far the best coach I've worked with coach, and he

1548
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:22,200
Speaker 1: by far has treated me the best at any coach

1549
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:26,400
Speaker 1: you're working, including coach. He's become like a big brother, ina,

1550
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:31,639
Speaker 1: And I mean, what what is it about his coaching?

1551
01:20:31,720 --> 01:20:34,120
Speaker 1: Like I have my own. I admire him greatly as

1552
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:38,680
Speaker 1: a coach. But having worked with so many guys and

1553
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:40,720
Speaker 1: you say, by far, what is it about his coach?

1554
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:45,639
Speaker 1: You're like, wow, he's a great player development, Like every

1555
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:49,000
Speaker 1: morning he works. You don't understand it. Now we'll we'll

1556
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:50,640
Speaker 1: do the certain season two. Now we had a lot

1557
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:53,160
Speaker 1: of breaks because we missed six facts. He comes in

1558
01:20:53,880 --> 01:20:56,000
Speaker 1: and he's working in groups to four. He does it

1559
01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:59,120
Speaker 1: himself with the assistance there working with the guys, and

1560
01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:01,000
Speaker 1: he has a set of team. So the big man

1561
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:04,080
Speaker 1: of working on face to basket stuff, on shooting threes,

1562
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:07,200
Speaker 1: the guards are working on going off ball screens and

1563
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:11,080
Speaker 1: once again shooting threes and perfects. He perfects everything. We

1564
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:14,599
Speaker 1: have a kid, Verry Jane Louise. Jason Kidd shot twenty

1565
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:18,960
Speaker 1: percent from three junior college. He's a kid that I

1566
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:21,599
Speaker 1: helped coach get and I told Coach, you can't shoot

1567
01:21:21,800 --> 01:21:24,240
Speaker 1: a Coach loved him as an athlete. He's shot on

1568
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:28,240
Speaker 1: the way down and couldn't hit threes well. He shot

1569
01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 1: from three. Now now he's not a great shooter, but

1570
01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:34,200
Speaker 1: coach improved his game so much. We have a kid

1571
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:37,960
Speaker 1: in Nellie Joseph who's from Team Africa. Coach helped develop him.

1572
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:41,639
Speaker 1: You can go on and on. He is unbelievable working

1573
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:45,400
Speaker 1: with guys individually and and and getting him better. And

1574
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:48,880
Speaker 1: he's attention to detail is tremendous. And he works some

1575
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:50,640
Speaker 1: hard for forty five minutes in the morning and then

1576
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:53,000
Speaker 1: we go out about two hours hour forty five in

1577
01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:55,040
Speaker 1: the afternoon and it's all team stuff and going up

1578
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:57,880
Speaker 1: and down. And he's tremendous at practice. He wears a

1579
01:21:57,960 --> 01:22:01,960
Speaker 1: mic and and coaches on the run and he'll correct

1580
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:04,040
Speaker 1: things in the right way. And he's tough on the

1581
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:06,720
Speaker 1: guys but does it in the right way. He is

1582
01:22:06,920 --> 01:22:10,200
Speaker 1: just a guy. He relates well the guys to the players,

1583
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:13,599
Speaker 1: and they respect him so much. There's an aura about him,

1584
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:17,960
Speaker 1: and Jimmy had that aura, but Patino has got a

1585
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:21,960
Speaker 1: bigger roar it's it's just something that he has. Now

1586
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:24,479
Speaker 1: I'll explain this to you. And now we're playing Alabama

1587
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:30,200
Speaker 1: DNSTA tournament. Every hto he ran, we scored on. We

1588
01:22:30,360 --> 01:22:32,760
Speaker 1: were so prepared for the Ali get Obama game. We

1589
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:36,080
Speaker 1: were so overmatch. They had so much better players than us.

1590
01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:39,679
Speaker 1: Yet with seven minutes to go, we're down one. Okay,

1591
01:22:40,439 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 1: and if our big guy Nelly, who didn't play well,

1592
01:22:42,960 --> 01:22:45,600
Speaker 1: doesn't get in Balchrober, we had to pull him out. Uh.

1593
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:48,040
Speaker 1: The guy that went in and gave up two threes,

1594
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:50,519
Speaker 1: it kind of broke the game open. We might have

1595
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,960
Speaker 1: had a shot down the stretch. But he's amazing. I

1596
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:56,200
Speaker 1: mean we we missed so many days of practice. We

1597
01:22:56,600 --> 01:23:00,120
Speaker 1: win four games in five days. Uh, and when win

1598
01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:06,519
Speaker 1: the MAC tournament because of him, game preparations unbelievable. Coaching

1599
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:11,280
Speaker 1: is unbelievable. What about you. I ain't gonna do this

1600
01:23:11,360 --> 01:23:16,080
Speaker 1: for so I can't I know the words when I

1601
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:18,519
Speaker 1: physically can't, I'll be fine. I worked out about an

1602
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:20,000
Speaker 1: hour and a half a day, and I feel good,

1603
01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:22,720
Speaker 1: feel fine, I'm happy. My wife's happy with it. So

1604
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:24,960
Speaker 1: we're good. Well, you know, one day I'll wake up

1605
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:28,360
Speaker 1: and say that's it. Probably when Pettino packs it and

1606
01:23:28,439 --> 01:23:31,599
Speaker 1: I'll pack it in. This is my last job unless

1607
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:34,000
Speaker 1: he fires me, well unless he fires me. We could always,

1608
01:23:35,439 --> 01:23:37,240
Speaker 1: but I mean, I've told coach I'm gonna stay with

1609
01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:39,640
Speaker 1: him and that's it. I'm not you know, I'm not

1610
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:42,160
Speaker 1: interested in any other situation. It's perfect here. He treats

1611
01:23:42,160 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 1: me great. I love working for him. Nicest campus that

1612
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:53,760
Speaker 1: you've represented, probably Colorado Colorad was beautiful. I'll tell you

1613
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:56,400
Speaker 1: which beautiful to Virginia Tech. I haven't been there in

1614
01:23:56,439 --> 01:23:58,559
Speaker 1: a while, but that was beautiful. It's funny. I don't

1615
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:01,599
Speaker 1: have to say Bold and Boulders. You know, bol is beautiful.

1616
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:06,880
Speaker 1: My wife loved Bolo. Um. If you could change one thing,

1617
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:08,840
Speaker 1: would it be not leaving Lamar? The first what I'm

1618
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 1: not leaving Lamar. I'm gonna make you laugh. Okay. Back

1619
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:19,400
Speaker 1: on that date that Louis said, don't leave, I wouldn't

1620
01:24:19,439 --> 01:24:22,400
Speaker 1: won a national championship in Jimmy. I might have not

1621
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:26,479
Speaker 1: done it. Now, I might have just stayed. I mean,

1622
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:28,680
Speaker 1: to this day, Louise still doesn't forgive me for that.

1623
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:31,600
Speaker 1: I mean, we talked once in a while, but I

1624
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:34,160
Speaker 1: might have done that. I don't know. I think my

1625
01:24:34,400 --> 01:24:37,080
Speaker 1: coaching career would have went a different way. But I

1626
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:38,720
Speaker 1: might have done that. But you know what, Doug, when

1627
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:42,439
Speaker 1: I look back, I had a ball. I worked at

1628
01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:45,840
Speaker 1: sixteen seventeen different schools. I worked with great guys. You know,

1629
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:49,440
Speaker 1: you you talk about Majeiras he was, he was tremendous.

1630
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:53,120
Speaker 1: I worked for Lefty it was great, and you know,

1631
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:58,720
Speaker 1: working for tab of Colorado was good. Um, I just

1632
01:24:58,840 --> 01:25:01,320
Speaker 1: worked for some great guys. Vanna was terrific. Now I'm

1633
01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:04,080
Speaker 1: working for the coach Patino and every day is a

1634
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:09,639
Speaker 1: new experience with coach amazing. So it's been a great ride.

1635
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:11,960
Speaker 1: It's been a lot of fun. If you were to

1636
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:15,360
Speaker 1: give advice to a young coach who's trying to figure

1637
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:17,519
Speaker 1: out do I bounce? Do I stay? How do I

1638
01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:19,720
Speaker 1: know what to do when to do it? But what

1639
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:22,680
Speaker 1: will the advice? Yeah, you know, here's my deal with

1640
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:25,240
Speaker 1: the younger guys coming up. They want to get ahead

1641
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:27,560
Speaker 1: too fast. They don't want to they don't want to

1642
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:33,320
Speaker 1: pay their dues. Uh. You know, the harder you work,

1643
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:36,720
Speaker 1: the lucky you get left. He said that, I don't

1644
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:40,519
Speaker 1: know that guys work as hard as maybe the Eddie

1645
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:44,479
Speaker 1: Foger's the George Felton's you know you you go back

1646
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:47,479
Speaker 1: and guys at Leonard Hamilton's. You know, the guys in

1647
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:51,000
Speaker 1: my day we did it differently, work differently. I think

1648
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:53,120
Speaker 1: a lot of the young guys coming up now right now,

1649
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:55,880
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's a lot of I going on

1650
01:25:57,120 --> 01:25:58,880
Speaker 1: and I see it, and I don't mind saying it.

1651
01:25:59,120 --> 01:26:01,800
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I'm a dinosaur to those guys,

1652
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:05,320
Speaker 1: and and I really don't care. But I love what

1653
01:26:05,360 --> 01:26:07,040
Speaker 1: I'm doing. I'm done. I'm not doing it for the money.

1654
01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 1: I'm doing it because I love Coach Patino, I love

1655
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 1: my owner. My own is a great place. We have

1656
01:26:12,400 --> 01:26:16,560
Speaker 1: probably the best president in the United States here, and

1657
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:20,000
Speaker 1: I own a guy named Dr Carrie Shamus Carry. And

1658
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:22,679
Speaker 1: that's the reason Coach part is here. This guy's dying.

1659
01:26:23,479 --> 01:26:28,800
Speaker 1: He's dynamite and he's building with Coach here, and with

1660
01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:32,080
Speaker 1: Coach with with with Shamus Carry as the president, this

1661
01:26:32,280 --> 01:26:34,960
Speaker 1: place is going to develop over the next six years

1662
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:40,080
Speaker 1: into like a Loola Gonzaga flavor. Now, I'm not saying

1663
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:42,439
Speaker 1: we're gonna be Gonzaga. I'm not saying I'm saying in

1664
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:45,599
Speaker 1: that flavor where we're gonna play. You know, we're gonna

1665
01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:47,599
Speaker 1: play a couple of games every every year in the garden.

1666
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:50,120
Speaker 1: You know next year we play too. We're gonna play

1667
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:52,519
Speaker 1: in the Barkley Center. We play Yank. I guess it's

1668
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:55,400
Speaker 1: b y U and Seaton Holland Garden. We're gonna play

1669
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:57,760
Speaker 1: in the Orlando shootout. That has some good teams in it,

1670
01:26:58,040 --> 01:27:00,720
Speaker 1: and coach is gonna make that that that just like

1671
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:04,360
Speaker 1: the Gonzaga all the type deal. I'm not saying we're

1672
01:27:04,400 --> 01:27:07,720
Speaker 1: gonna be that. Don't get wrong that that model to

1673
01:27:08,200 --> 01:27:11,760
Speaker 1: be good. And he's gonna we're gonna win. Yeah, I

1674
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:15,800
Speaker 1: mean he will. He has never not one, so he's

1675
01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:18,960
Speaker 1: gonna win. He's gonna win. Um. I can't say how

1676
01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:21,519
Speaker 1: much I appreciate all this time you've given me and

1677
01:27:21,800 --> 01:27:25,880
Speaker 1: all the knowledges is amazing. And and thanks again. Let's

1678
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:28,600
Speaker 1: let's catch up and and just talk ball outside of

1679
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:31,040
Speaker 1: this deal. But yeah, I appreciate. And when you said,

1680
01:27:31,080 --> 01:27:32,639
Speaker 1: when you talk to your brother, even though I talked

1681
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:34,120
Speaker 1: to him, tell him, I said, Hi, he's he's a

1682
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:37,840
Speaker 1: terrific guy. I will appreciate it. I see, Thanks for

1683
01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:45,559
Speaker 1: the time. What a life, what a career, what a story, huh,

1684
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:48,400
Speaker 1: Like it's just to be a fly on the wall

1685
01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:55,080
Speaker 1: on some of those situations. Really pretty amazing, pretty amazing. Um.

1686
01:27:56,200 --> 01:27:58,920
Speaker 1: I I like the spud web story. I thought was hysterical.

1687
01:28:00,640 --> 01:28:04,479
Speaker 1: There's there's just been so many things, the moving from

1688
01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:08,639
Speaker 1: place to place, just can you imagine, like every time

1689
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:11,240
Speaker 1: you move. Kim English told us on our last part

1690
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:14,519
Speaker 1: that he had the same same cell phones since seventh grade,

1691
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:17,599
Speaker 1: but when you work for a different school you get

1692
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:20,519
Speaker 1: a new number. I mean, just thinking how many times

1693
01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:24,080
Speaker 1: you have to you have to log on and figure

1694
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:26,880
Speaker 1: out parking and all the other little minute things that

1695
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 1: you have to do, and when your assistant coach especially

1696
01:28:29,360 --> 01:28:33,040
Speaker 1: like that stuff is just crazy. Anyway, I hope you

1697
01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:36,960
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. It was a fantastic journey. Reminder The Doug

1698
01:28:36,960 --> 01:28:39,599
Speaker 1: Otlip shows daily three to six Eastern, twelve three Pacific,

1699
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:43,360
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, Fox Sports Radio dot Com, UH Series

1700
01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:46,160
Speaker 1: x M two, O three and two seventeen in the meantime,

1701
01:28:46,439 --> 01:28:50,280
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Tell a friend, write a review, downloads,

1702
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:52,320
Speaker 1: subscribe rate to oh Ball