WEBVTT - How Carbon Capture and Storage Works 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.560 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:16.319 from house Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:19.319 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me as always is 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:23.599 the lovely Chuck Bryant staring at our new jute rug 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.120 hanging from our new wall. What's up, Chuck? We must 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:28.320 be like going places. We have a jute rug hanging 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:30.560 from the wall. I feel silly because they called it Berber. 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.080 That's okay, I'm over here feeling stupid. They're both from 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.800 the same area. That's the world that they better be 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:41.600 because if you start getting the cool thing is is 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.120 when we're corrected though we are literally corrected. I'm sorry, 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:49.160 we're corrected by literal experts. Have you noticed. Yeah? True, 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.400 yea many times, like it would be like a jute 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:56.400 rug manufacturer or somebody with a PhD and jute rug 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:00.639 studies who will email us about or Henry Jute himself, right, 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:05.120 the father of jute ruggery. Yeah, so other than the 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:07.920 whole Berber jute thing. How are you feeling? Oh, I'm good. 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.679 A little tired, but I'm fine. Are you tired? Chuck, 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:12.920 you should look into energy drinks. I just drank one 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.360 and I'm like, yeah, I'm not a fan. I like 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.600 the taste. No, no, good enough? Do you want to 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.720 move on? Sure, let's do that. What's funny is is 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.200 that came out is like seven seconds and it really 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:27.680 lasted what like four minutes? Yeah, if people only knew 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:31.560 thanks to the wonder of YERI. Yeah, So, Chuck, um 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.080 you may have noticed, and I know you did because 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:37.560 that person we used to relay information to us between 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:39.679 the two of us because we can't stand one another really, 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:44.039 Uh told me that you told her that you already 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.680 knew this. Are you following me so far? No? I 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:48.920 don't think anyone else is either. Okay, we already did 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.559 this one. Yeah, we should go ahead and say that, Yeah, 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:55.320 this is about carbon capture and storage. And uh, it 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:58.480 seemed oddly familiar when I was researching, and that's because 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:00.560 we did, in fact do this last lie. But it 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.120 was one of our little baby podcasts when we first started, 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:06.600 and it was like five seven minutes long something like that, 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:09.400 and it just really didn't do this topic justice. And 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.119 I gotta tell you, hot dog, carbon capture and storage 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:16.400 is cool enough and important enough to do twice. Yeah, 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.360 and don't worry, folks, We're not gonna start rehashing things. 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:21.440 We have plenty of topics weeks or you have to cover. 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:22.720 But we just want to do this because we're in 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.320 a little green sweet kick exactly. Yeah. And plus you know, 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:28.760 the first one just didn't quite do it. Usually when 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.799 we do a podcast, it stays done, right. This one 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:34.000 didn't quite stay done and it was still squirming. We 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:35.880 hadn't put the nail into the back of the head yet. 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:40.079 We're gonna do that here. Yeah, So, Chuck, this one 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.400 is laden with stats. As I was reading this article, 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.040 I thought, Chuck is going to go crazy for this one. 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.440 Give me the first stat buddy. Let's talk about c 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:53.040 O two in the greenhouse effect, right, let's do Okay, 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:57.320 So we do have this layer of carbon dioxide that 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.320 allows sunlight to pass through and some to stay. It 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:03.480 keeps bouncing back and forth, which we need to degree 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.840 or else trees wouldn't grow, children wouldn't skip and play 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.960 supported for photosynthesis, right, so we do need it. What 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:13.320 would happen if we didn't have this, uh, this greenhouse 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:17.080 layer surrounding the earth like a warm blanket, Josh, if 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:20.960 we had no greenhouse effect, our planet would be about 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:25.000 minus twenty two degrees fahrenheit, which is minus thirty degrees 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.560 celsius for our friends who don't use the Imperial system. 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.000 So it would be a frozen planet basically, yeah, oh yeah, 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:32.520 we wouldn't be around, I'll tell you that. So we 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:34.840 want the greenhouse effect. We want this stuff to come 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:38.200 through and to warm our Earth. The problem is is 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:41.320 when enough of it doesn't get bounced back into outer space, 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:43.560 then it gets a little too warm because the other 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:45.600 the other direction. We don't have a stat on that, 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:49.000 but as you can tell, summers are getting a little hotter, 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.160 and uh, I'm sweating a lot more. We do have 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.480 a stat on that as far as it getting hotter. 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:59.440 Uh well, emissions, I'm sorry, emissions increasing. I kind of 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:03.200 bent that one little bit. But from nineteen seventy two 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:08.280 thousand four, the greenhouse gas emissions have increased over that 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.240 thirty four year period, right and there there's actually plenty 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:15.760 of different greenhouse gases You've got, like nitrous oxide, methane, um, 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:19.840 even water vapor is technically a greenhouse gas up there. Um, 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.000 So all this stuff kind of combining traps in the 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:28.160 sun's heat. Um. But worst among them as far as 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:32.760 what we're doing to contribute, which is called anthropogenic contribution, uh, 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:36.560 is carbon dioxide. Because between that same period, would you say, 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:41.040 it's nineteen seventy two thousand four, our carbon dioxide emissions grew. 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.680 That's that's significant. Yeah, close to doubling. That's that's a lot. Right. 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.400 Then you remember the chloro hydrofluorocarbons I think is what 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:54.640 they were called, the CFCs yet chlorofluora carbons, uh, And 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:57.359 then they were in aerosol sprays and like everybody's like, 0:04:57.400 --> 0:04:59.760 oh god, you know, it's everything's going to end, and 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:02.800 the we just got rid of aerosaults. Kind of we 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:04.080 need to figure out a way to do that with 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.680 carbon dioxide emissions too. Well, we kind of are yeah, 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.560 and what is it? Well, that's what we're talking about again, 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.880 which is a carbon capture and more importantly storage, because 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:17.839 capturing carbon, I mean, none of it's easy, but what 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.080 you do with it is what's important. Sure, yeah, I 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.040 mean we can't yeah put in the backyard, sure right, 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.479 you can put it very deep in the backyard. You 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:27.680 could not get to that nice for shadowing so let's 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.960 talk about trapping carbon dioxide. First. They capture part of 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.880 carbon capture and storage, which, if you want to look 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:36.440 green savvy in front of your friends, just toss out 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:40.600 ccs and they will be wowed. Yeah, we've actually been 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:43.320 doing this for a while, Josh, what you and I 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.640 year at least ye know capturing carbon. Oh, yeah, we've 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:48.720 been doing that for a while because the oil and 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.039 gas industries do that. They they've been doing that for 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:54.680 decades to enhance oil and gas recovery. Right, because you know, 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:58.840 when when you tap in uh oil reserve all the 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.240 deposit in the earth, it's actually there's a ton of 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.279 gases holding it down. It's pressurized actually, so the stuff 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:07.039 is it comes out really easily. But as the gases 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:11.279 that are holding this, they're pressurizing this underground cavern, escape 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.680 into the atmosphere, um, it becomes harder and harder to 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:16.880 get the oil out. So they figured out that if 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:21.159 you pump CEO two into these half depleted deposits, it 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.960 repressurizes it and it makes the oil easier to to 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.880 get out. Right, So out of that becomes a more 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:31.120 environmentally friendly use, which is capturing carbon from Mother Earth. Right, 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.839 and even more so since we're already or since the 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:37.240 oil companies are already using sea pressurized c O two 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:41.239 uh to to for enhanced store recovery. There's already a network, 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:45.800 a system of pipelines and stuff in in in our 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:50.480 infrastructure structure. Wow, I love that word infrastructure. But that's 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.400 I do too. It's very comforting, it is. Yeah, it 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:58.440 sounds like somebody's in charge, so we're I'm getting ahead 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.760 of myself. That's the that's part of the storage. Right, 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:04.479 Let's keep talking about capture, Josh. There are three main 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:07.039 steps to CCS, and that is the trapping of the 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:11.520 carbon uh the separating of the CEO two from other gases, 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.360 and then transporting it to a place where you can 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.680 store it away from the atmosphere. Right. And actually, strangely enough, 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:21.320 there's three methods that we've come up with for doing this. Right. 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.520 So you've got you love that, dun't you. You've got 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:30.240 post combustion, pre combustion, and oxyfuel combustion right down. Okay, 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.680 well I'll break down post combustion. It's exactly what it 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:37.400 sounds like. Say you've got a coal fire power plant. 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.760 Coal is super dirty, even clean coal is very dirty. Uh. 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.040 If you can figure out a way to trap that 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:46.920 CEO two that's escaping from the fluid, Uh, then all 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:50.480 of a sudden you've just captured carbon. Right. And one 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.240 way to do that is to introduce some sort of 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:57.240 like gel or compound. Uh. There's some I know Georgia 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:01.360 text working on one called hyper branched you know, silica. Wow, 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.200 look at you. Thanks? You weren't even reading that. No, 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.040 it wasn't very impressive. Oh, it's not even in this article, pal, 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:10.280 And my brain is musters no. Um. And actually I 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:15.280 guess it's because it's so hyper branched. Um. It traps 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:19.400 carbon dioxide molecules and it actually locks into them. So 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:21.320 it's a silica. It's kind of sandy. So it works 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.120 as a filter. It does. But you know, so some 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.360 flu gases get out, but the carbon dioxide doesn't. And 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:29.040 the cool thing is it's like it just sits there, 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.560 just traps it until it's heated again. And if you 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:33.800 heat it in the under the right circumstances, you can 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:36.360 capture just the c O two and compress it and 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:39.720 get rid of it. That's one example of post combustion. 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.600 The key to post combustion is you're already burning the 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.200 fospil fuels and you're capturing as much CO two as 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:47.720 you can before it escapes into the atmosphere out of 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:49.960 smoke stack. Right. One thing I noticed in that where 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.600 you said once you heat it again, it leaves behind 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.960 the concentrated uh CEO two, but it releases water vapor. 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:58.240 Is I wonder if that water vapor is part of 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:00.920 the problem as well, though it seems get water vapor 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.480 is again it's a greenhouse gas, but it's also a 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:05.880 flu gas, which is a mixture of a whole bunch 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:09.720 of stuff that that that comes out of burning fossil fuels. 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.199 But again we're after the CEO two, but it seems 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:14.840 like getting the CEO two separated from the water vapor 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.720 is a problem as well. Yeah, so you want to 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:23.319 do precombustion. Yeah, uh, this is when carbon is carbon 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:25.760 is trapped I'm sorry, carbon dioxide, I guess I should 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.920 say is trapped before the fossil fuel is burned, so 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.040 before it's diluted with other flu gasses. Um is when 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.720 you when you capture it, so precombustion, before it's burned 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.199 and apparently chuck what you do is you actually heat 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.600 whatever fossil fuel you're using, uh, in the presence of 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:45.120 pure oxygen, and you get this other, this brand, this 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:49.319 completely different thing, carbon monoxide and hydrogen, right. And then 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:53.000 you run into a catalytic converter and it produces more hydrogen, 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.600 which is good because you can actually reuse that for 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.160 energy to maybe even power this whole process, right uh. 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:02.400 And then you get car and dioxide as well, right uh. 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:06.800 And then you put them in a flask with a 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:11.079 chemical called aimine, and the aiming actually holds the CEO 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.280 two down on top of it. Right, and then eventually 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:17.760 you can extract the aiming and the hydrogen, reuse the 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:21.000 aiming and trap the CEO two. It sounds like kind 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:22.760 of a lot, it does. I wonder if we're gonna 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.840 get get any cool sound effects like our distillery. That 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:28.040 would be very cool. That would be super cool. And 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.280 if we did, Yeah, didn't you just hear it. Yeah, 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.400 Jerry's ignoring us right now, so that might not happen. Um. 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:37.400 So the it is a lot pre combustion. Is it's 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:40.000 a big process. Yeah, it's already in use actually for 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:42.200 natural gas. They've already been using this. It is the 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.880 thing is is it's in use in a brand new 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:48.319 power plant. The good thing about post combustion is you 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:52.160 can run around the country and retrofit old power plant 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:56.200 to capture carbon dioxide. Pre combustion you pretty much have 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:58.360 to build that in as you're building a new power plant. 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.160 And it's also super expense. Well, this has a lot 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:04.760 of energy. What precombustion Yeah, oh yeah, No, I thought 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:07.320 it was lower in cost, is it. Well, the process 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.280 is lower in cost, but I think it's more expensive 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:12.720 because it's not a retrofit, right. But it also it's 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.040 it's higher in the cost of energy that it uses 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:17.520 to this process. From what I understand, I was talking 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:21.160 about dollars. Buddy, Hey dude, you still for energy somehow, 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:23.320 pay an hour, pay later, right, right. And then the 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:28.439 last one is oxyfuel, right, oxyfuel combustion, Yeah, that's uh. 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:32.520 The power plant burns fossil fuel and oxygen and this 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:37.119 results in a gas mixture comprised of steam and carbon dioxide. 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.960 So the steam and c O two are separated when 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:44.079 you cool it and compress the gas, uh stream Right, 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:47.160 So there you have it. There you have, and all 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.920 three of these captured between eighty and the carbon dioxide 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:53.960 that's escaping. I think oxy fuels the most oxy feels 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.280 topping out at nine um. So those are pretty much 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:02.760 the three competing ways to UH capture carbon dioxide and 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.240 use right now. And it seems like we're talking about 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.640 power plants a lot. Those are definitely the focus of 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.920 carbon capture right now. You know, they're huge emitters of 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.240 carbon diox So, like there's a I think a Southern 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:20.079 Company plant in Juliette, Georgia, and it emits more carbon 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:24.000 DIOXI than the entire power infrastructure of Brazil, which seems 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.000 a little lopsided because you just blogged about Brazil recently 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:32.120 on a sugarcane biofuels, right, and they're very, very energy 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:36.400 independent thanks to the cellulistic ethanol that they make from sugarcane. 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:40.800 So it's a lopside in comparison. But still one power 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.680 plant shouldn't be putting out, you know, more CEO two 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.319 than any country. Sure you would think, right, but that's 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:50.520 less that country is tiny, Like maybe Vatican City Is 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.840 that a country, dude? I I walked around Vatican City 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:58.640 one time by accident. Well it was my friend Brett 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:01.240 and I kind of well we were on the wrong 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:03.560 side of of where we needed to be, and we thought, well, 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:05.920 we'll just skirt around this wall here, and I think 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.840 it'll be quicker. And I didn't realize that we're walking 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:10.760 around the country. Did you come face to face with 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:14.040 the pope and they're just like But it took forever. 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.720 It was much a much longer walk than I anticipated. 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:18.280 And now that I realized it's a country that kind 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.040 of all makes sense. Does it make sense? It does 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:25.120 cool place though I've heard moving on. Yes. So now, Josh, 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.600 what we have is captured carbon. We got a whole 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:30.520 lot of carbon dioxide. What do we do with the chuck? Well, 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.800 you need to transport at first before you can store it? 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.319 How through a pipeline? Oh yeah, I already talked about that. Right. 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:38.280 That's a good thing is that infrastructure is in place. 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.240 And uh, I think here's another stat there's more than 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:46.280 fift miles of CEO two pipelines already in place here. 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.600 And it sounds like technically it's not like consider the 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.360 then oil pipelines and that kind of thing, and that 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:54.680 actually I was talking about a lopside of figure with 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:58.080 the Southern Company plant in Brazil. Um, you know CEO 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:02.800 two pipeline safe. Uh as far as fatalities and accidents go, 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.080 it's really low compared to like natural gas and in 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.920 hazardous materials pipeline. I think to the tune of um, 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:16.120 I've got stats, I can't now. These are death Okay, 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:20.080 that's uh, we're talking. These are death. We're talking Between 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.760 nine six and two thousand six, there's only been twelve 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.840 CEO two pipeline leaks with no injuries and none yeah 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.840 none zip and over the same period more than five 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:35.280 thousand accidents within a hundred and seven fatalities with liquid 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.880 um petroleum pipelines. So whoop whoop. It sounds like CEO 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:43.400 two pipelines are way safer, but there's a lot fury. Yeah. Uh. 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.640 And your friend Debbie Ranka thinks that these things, that 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:50.520 these accidents will probably increases the UM CEO two pipeline 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.120 infrastructure increases in in breadth. Right, and we should say 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.400 Debbie wrote this, we didn't just chat about this and 0:14:56.440 --> 0:15:00.000 Debbie throughout her opinion, Debbie wrote this awesome formal trains 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.720 and pediatrics, Right, Debbie a freak girl dot com? Is 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.880 that her? Huh nice good girl? Oh, you're just plug happy, 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.160 aren't you. You know, I think just for old times sake, 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:11.840 you should plug our audio book I mean, you know, 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.040 uh spoken word album. Yeah, well, I'm never going to 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:16.400 get that right there in the front of my head. 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:17.960 They will never be the first thing I call that. 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.320 So now we have it in a pipeline and we 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:24.840 are transporting it where it needs to go, which it 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:26.560 depends on where you pick it up and where it 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:28.400 needs to be for where it needs to travel, I mean, 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.640 is pretty simple, right, but we're also we should probably 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.160 say that there's different You could transport CEO two three 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.280 different ways, right, gas, liquid, and solid, right, and the 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:39.960 most efficient is is uh is gas? Right? Yeah? Yeah, 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.040 of course? Um solid CEO two actually is dry eyes 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:47.520 did you Yeah, yeah, I didn't. And it's not very 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:51.120 cost effective to transport as a solid obviously, um, and 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.680 gas is easier because you can compress it with these 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:55.800 uh you know, these compressors kind of push it through 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.640 the pipeline every so often they have these compressors. And 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.440 where are you shooting it too, though, shooting into the 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:05.080 storage area chuck there? Yeah, Which that depends on what 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:07.360 storage you're gonna use, what kind of storage you're gonna use. Well, 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:08.720 what kind do you want to use? I mean, there's 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.280 only two underground and underwater, right right? What kind do 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:13.320 I want to use? What kind do you want to use? 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:16.520 If you're Chuck King of the World and somebody says, what, 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.320 let's see something about CCS, you say, I decree that 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:24.080 we're going to store it underground, underground? Alright? Nice? The 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.640 ocean thing worries me a little bit. They both worried 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.280 me a little bit, actually, but yeah, let's start with underground. Okay, 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:33.800 let's do underground. Um, well, Josh, there are some estimates. 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:35.520 If you want another stat you're right, this is chuck 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.520 full of stats. Um, the planet can store up to 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:42.240 ten trillion tons of CEO two underground, which is a 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:47.040 hundred years of storage of all human anthropogenic carbon contributions, 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:49.800 which sounds good, but that's really not very long d years. No, 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.280 but consider this. I was actually um when I wrote 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:56.760 the article can we bury our CEO two problem under 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.040 the ocean? I think is what it was called. There's 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.160 no telling what kind of technology we're going to have. 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:05.520 We could conceivably take that trap carbon dioxide and and 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:10.800 exert tons of force and and make synthetic petroleum out 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.679 of it. Yeah point yeah, So a hundred years is 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.760 a really long time with the kind of technological advances 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.680 we've been we've been undertaking in the last hundred years, 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.240 right yeah, I mean think about nineteen odd nine and 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:25.760 what it was like then. I don't like to compare 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:31.359 to now that's a syphilis yeah yeah sure. So yeah, 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.479 that's underground. Um. You know, it's pressurized when it's at 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.439 deep underground, and it behaves more like a liquid than 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.240 a gas when it's at fronder ground because it like 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:42.159 seeps into other little cracks and porous rocks, which is 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.440 a good thing, right. And actually there there's a specific 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:50.200 rock that they found um works really well for carbon storage, 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.160 and that is basalt, which is volcanic rock, right yeah, yeah, 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.840 and they just inject us what is it? Do they 0:17:55.880 --> 0:18:01.359 inject gaseous gasified CEO two? I think so? Yeah, they 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.720 injected directly into the rock. And actually the rock transforms 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.679 from base all into limestone. Pretty cool. It converts it 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:12.640 into rock. So basically like it's like a hyper accelerated, 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:16.399 uh geological process that's going on. But when I read that, 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:18.080 I thought, wow, that's great, what a great idea, we 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:19.919 just need to run around injecting all the base all 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:22.359 in the world with c O two and will be set. 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.280 It will just have a big limestone planet. And then 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:29.520 again I thought, we really don't know what we're tinkering 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.680 with here, Like what happens if we have like too 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.399 much limestone on the planet. We we can't say we 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:40.000 don't know. Like this, I can't tell almost I hate 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.960 to admit this, but I can't tell if this kind 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.960 of tinkering may actually result in much more catastrophic consequences 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.359 than just going the way we're going and trying to 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:53.199 go with biofuels. I don't you know, a lot of 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:55.159 the End of the World movies where it shows like 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:58.280 the future, how mankind was wiped out, the little thing 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:01.320 they'll use to to turn the story was we were 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:03.560 trying to do something great and discovered something we thought 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.720 was great, but it turned out to be some irrevocable 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:09.960 change that lead to our demands. You're talking about soil 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:11.919 and Green, of course, Well yeah, and just a lot 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:13.920 of movies like that. But that's a great point. Actually, 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.960 Slowly Green is a great example. I think we're doing 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:19.280 something really good and that might lend lead to our 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:26.960 undoing water World. Greatest movie ever made? Definitely? Maybe? Really? Yeah, 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:29.080 what did that have to do with this? It's highly 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.960 post apocalyptic. Okay, let's just see that one. I thought 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:34.399 it was you haven't seen it. I thought it was 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:36.840 a cheesy romance. No, it starts out like that and 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.600 the twist at the end is mind boggling. Yeah, it's 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:41.879 like The Road Warrior. So go ahead, Chuck. We're talking 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.680 underground or are we done with that part? No, well 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.480 we're almost done. What happens is they're studying all that 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.200 right now, so your fears hopefully can be dismissed because 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:53.160 they're looking to see what the result will be. Sure 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.800 and as far as it goes, I think the oldest 0:19:56.119 --> 0:20:02.760 um underground uh CEO two Georage site is actually under 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.560 the sea floor in Norway and it's only as old 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:09.320 as nine and it hasn't had an accident or anything, 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:12.919 but it's still it's only thirteen years old. Yeah, so 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:14.680 I mean what happens in fifty years or a hundred 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:16.600 years exactly? And that's what they're keeping their eye on. 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:18.399 I mean they're worried about it too. I mean, we 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:22.520 definitely have to do something, but I don't know. I'm 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:24.960 just a little hesitant, all right, I agree, Yeah, well 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.000 you wanna talk about the ocean. Yeah, let's talk about 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:29.520 the ocean. I'm I'm with you. I'm much more trepid 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:33.399 about the ocean storage and that, Um there's again. I 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:35.719 wrote an article called can we bury our CEO two 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:38.600 problem in the ocean? And in that article, um, there's 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:40.480 this guy who came up with these the idea of 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:45.200 having these pipelines pump liquefied not gasified, but liquefied CEO 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:51.240 two directly into enormous bags. That's right at the abysmal plane. Yeah, 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:56.280 not abysmal plane, the Yeah, but I imagine it's pretty 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.119 abysmal down there. Yeah. Um, so yeah, down on the 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:02.399 abysmal plane, right, And uh, it's it's a pretty good idea. 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.520 The problem is, these huge, enormous bags can only store 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:10.520 I think a day or ten worth of carbon dioxide captured. 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:13.320 It would be a lot of bags, and they end 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:15.320 up really quick, and if any one of them ruptured, 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:18.000 we don't know what would happened. But apparently from a 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:22.480 little more investigation, if we bury this stuff or dump 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:26.040 it in the ocean deep enough which is to the 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:31.680 tune of about eleven ft um. Then we can just 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:33.680 let it go and hope for the best that the 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:39.680