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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the White Tail Woods, presented by first Light, creating proven

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Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First

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Speaker 1: Light Go Farther, stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by Casey Anderson, a big game hunter,

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Speaker 2: a wildlife filmmaker, and a large carnivorre specialist to discuss

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Speaker 2: the much debated and pretty darn tricky topic of coexistence

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Speaker 2: between hunters and carnivores. All right, welcome back to the

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Speaker 2: Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Life,

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Speaker 2: and this week we are tackling a topic that I

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Speaker 2: have long wanted to discuss. This is a tricky, hairy,

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Speaker 2: tough animal to wrestle with. Here we are discussing hunters

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Speaker 2: and carnivore and whether or not these two groups, one

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Speaker 2: set humans, one set animals can coexist. What are the

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Speaker 2: challenges of living alongside large carnivores like bears, mountain lions, wolves,

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Speaker 2: What are the realities that come alongside of that? What

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Speaker 2: are the pros and cons of having these animals on

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Speaker 2: the landscape, What are the risks? What are the benefits,

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Speaker 2: what are the challenges inherent in trying to find some

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Speaker 2: kind of balance in between, because there are really strong

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Speaker 2: opinions on either side of this issue. There are some

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Speaker 2: who think that wolves and grizzlies are you know, God's

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Speaker 2: gift to the world, and they're going to solve all

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Speaker 2: of your problems, and they're going to cure world hunger,

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Speaker 2: and they are angels, you know, spitting rainbows and butterflies

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Speaker 2: out of their butts. On the other side, you have

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Speaker 2: people that think that wolves and bears and lions are

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Speaker 2: the work of the devil, and they are going to

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Speaker 2: destroy ranching, and they are going to destroy your opportunities

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Speaker 2: to hunt, and they are everything that is making your

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Speaker 2: hunting worse. Right, there's some people saying that as well.

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Speaker 2: There's some people who want to wipe grizzly bears or

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Speaker 2: wipe wolves off the map. There are some people who

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Speaker 2: say that we should never be able to hunt them

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Speaker 2: and that they're the best thing in the world. The

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Speaker 2: reality might lie somewhere in between. I would say my perspective,

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Speaker 2: and I'm leading you here a little bit with a

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Speaker 2: preview of what's to come, but my take on the

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Speaker 2: matter is that there is somewhere in between those two

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Speaker 2: polar sides of this issue that deserve some time and

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Speaker 2: attention and some discussion, and that is what we're going

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Speaker 2: to do here today. And joining me, as I mentioned

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Speaker 2: at the top, is a guy by the name of

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Speaker 2: Casey Anderson, and he's someone who is very well equipped

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Speaker 2: to talk about this topic because he has lived this

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Speaker 2: from all sides. He is a hunter. He is a

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Speaker 2: big game hunter, he's a bow hunter. He's chased elk

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Speaker 2: and deer and all sorts of critters like that. He

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Speaker 2: grew up in this world, in this lifestyle, so he

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Speaker 2: understands our perspective. On the flip side, he is also

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Speaker 2: an animal lover, just like many of us are, who

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Speaker 2: appreciates these animals on the landscape, not just elkin, deer,

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Speaker 2: but also bears and wolves and lions. And he studies

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Speaker 2: them and follows them and films them for a living,

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Speaker 2: and because he loves doing that and is fascinated by them,

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Speaker 2: so he sees the value in having these creatures out

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Speaker 2: there too. So he's talked to the animal rights activists,

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Speaker 2: he's talked to the hunters, he's talked to the people

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Speaker 2: going to Yellowstone to watch for wolves, and he's talked

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Speaker 2: to people in Montana where he lives about hunting wolves.

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Speaker 2: He's seen all sides of this issue. He's explored it

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Speaker 2: and disgusted with experts. He's lived it himself. And that

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Speaker 2: is I think a really key thing here for this discussion,

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Speaker 2: because he brings to this topic a perspective that is

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Speaker 2: not just informed by reading some papers or by reading

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Speaker 2: the social media comments or by listening to some other

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Speaker 2: random person. His experience and perspective is based very much

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Speaker 2: so on his on the ground experience because over the

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Speaker 2: last thirty plus years, he has traveled all over this

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Speaker 2: country and world, getting up close to and studying grizzly bears,

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Speaker 2: mountain lions, tigers, wolves, big toothy critters that evoke all

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Speaker 2: sorts of emotions. He's been up close to them, watched

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Speaker 2: them for days upon days upon weeks and years worth

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Speaker 2: of time seeing them, watching them, developing an intimate understanding

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Speaker 2: of the reality of these creatures, how they live, the

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Speaker 2: impact they have on the landscape and the people in

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Speaker 2: the area. He's seen it all the good, the bad,

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Speaker 2: the in between. So I wanted to chat with Casey

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Speaker 2: today to explore this kind of murky in between what

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Speaker 2: exists between the predators are horrible and the predators are

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Speaker 2: the best. What's there in between, what's the radical center

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Speaker 2: of this issue, and what can we as hunters do

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Speaker 2: to better understand how to make sure there's a positive

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Speaker 2: future for us in our hunting way of life and

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Speaker 2: the critters that we like to hunt and pursue, but

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Speaker 2: also for the health of the ecosystem out there that

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Speaker 2: supports those animals, which does include carnivores in many cases.

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Speaker 2: So that's the plan for today. That's the chat we

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Speaker 2: have in store. I absolutely love this one. Casey is

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Speaker 2: a wealth of knowledge, has a lot of great stories.

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Speaker 2: He just launched a new YouTube channel be called Endless Venture.

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Speaker 2: I highly recommend it. It's very entertaining. By the end

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Speaker 2: of this conversation, I guarantee you're going to want to

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Speaker 2: go check it out. So I'm just gonna preview it

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Speaker 2: for it until you just go ahead subscribe to that

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Speaker 2: now and then come on back. Listen to this chat

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Speaker 2: with Casey. If you have ever wondered about, or been

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Speaker 2: frustrated by, or confused by, or just simply intrigued by

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Speaker 2: the challenges, the debates, the discussions you see online when

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Speaker 2: it comes to hunters and the animals we hunt, and

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Speaker 2: then how all that exists alongside stuff like wolves or

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Speaker 2: bears or mountain lions or coyotes, any of that stuff

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Speaker 2: has ever popped up in your mind and you're like, man,

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Speaker 2: that's a doozy her Man, that's frustrating her Man, I

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Speaker 2: don't get it. This is the chat for you. This

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Speaker 2: is one to listen to. So, without any further ado,

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Speaker 2: here's my conversation with Casey Anderson. All right, joining me

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Speaker 2: now is Casey Anderson. Welcome to the show, Casey, thanks

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Speaker 2: for having me Mark, Yeah, thank you. I appreciate you

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Speaker 2: making time to do this. It's a conversation that I've

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Speaker 2: been looking forward to for a while. I never expected

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Speaker 2: it to be on this podcast, but my wife and

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Speaker 2: I first started following your work. I don't know, it's

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Speaker 2: been a lot of years ago. Now you've been doing

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Speaker 2: this for twenty years, thirty years probably something like that,

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Speaker 2: Is that right, Casey? I think we first stumbled on

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Speaker 2: your stuff maybe fifteen years ago. But how long ago

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Speaker 2: did that start?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Fifteen years ago I was doing National geographic series,

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Speaker 3: but I've been doing wildlife filmmaking type stuff for about

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Speaker 3: thirty one years.

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Speaker 2: Getting old, it goes fast. I can't believe that thirty

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Speaker 2: one years. So I think most people probably are familiar

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Speaker 2: with you from that kind of stuff, from your National

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Speaker 2: Geographic series, or you did some stuff on Animal Planet too,

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Speaker 2: Is that right I did?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been all around the block animal Planet, History,

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Speaker 3: Channel Discovery.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you've done all this wildlife filmmaking. People view

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Speaker 2: you as a wildlife expert. I've heard you talk about

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Speaker 2: yourself as like a animal activist or advocate, but folks

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Speaker 2: probably might not be as familiar with the fact that

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Speaker 2: you are also a hunter. Can you give me a

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Speaker 2: little bit of that background. How did you get into hunting?

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Speaker 2: What is that?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 2: How is that a part of your life now?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I grew up in Montana, was born

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Speaker 3: and raised, fifth generation, so hunting has been a big

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Speaker 3: part of my family very very long time. Yeah. I

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Speaker 3: mean I was hunting in Montana, you know, going out

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Speaker 3: with my dad since I could walk, you know, and

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Speaker 3: you know that it really hunting really made me who

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Speaker 3: I am today in a lot of ways, you know,

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Speaker 3: as a tracker looking for animals, being out in nature,

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Speaker 3: you know, you know, even though we're pursuing elk and

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Speaker 3: deer most of the time growing up, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: having those interactions and encounters with the other wildlife always

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Speaker 3: left me a little bit curious wanting to know more,

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Speaker 3: especially the more elusive ones like mountain lions and grizzly bears,

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Speaker 3: where you just you'd see them, you know, maybe once

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Speaker 3: a year or every once a decade, right or you know,

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Speaker 3: you see their tracks, and so wanting to know more

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Speaker 3: about them really kind of led me into trying to

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Speaker 3: film and and learn more, you know. And funny thing

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Speaker 3: about the filming someone asked me, like how I got

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Speaker 3: into filming, And it did start in hunting in another way.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: I would go out have these amazing stories and these

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Speaker 3: amazing encounters with my dad, and I'd come back to

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Speaker 3: the school yard and I would tell these stories over

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Speaker 3: and over. And it got to the point where I

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Speaker 3: had such so many good stories that I think everybody

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Speaker 3: thought I was full of it. And there's a part

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Speaker 3: of me that started documenting this stuff just to prove

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Speaker 3: that I wasn't full of it, right.

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Speaker 2: That's funny. So I've always thought, you know, watching you know,

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Speaker 2: like Planet earth or any other wildlife you know, focused

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Speaker 2: film or documentary. You watch this stuff and sometimes wonder

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Speaker 2: do these guys really know what they're doing a lot

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Speaker 2: of these folks, they kind of imagine someone coming from

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Speaker 2: London or England or wherever it is over there where

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Speaker 2: they've got the BBC Studios where there's so much of

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Speaker 2: this wildlife expertise as far as documentary making, And I wonder, like,

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Speaker 2: these guys come over here to America and they're filming

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Speaker 2: bears or deer or elk or whatever it is, and

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Speaker 2: how often are they stumbling around half blind when you

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Speaker 2: could take a deer hunter or elk hunter, or someone

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Speaker 2: from Montana or Wyoming or Michigan who's lived out here

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Speaker 2: tracking deer or elk and they could probably do a

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Speaker 2: hell of a job finding these critters and filming these critters. Uh.

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Speaker 2: Have you found that a non hunting wildlife filmmakers struggle

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Speaker 2: a little bit more than folks like you who have

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Speaker 2: that hunting expertise. Is there some truth to that?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Man, totally on p Yeah, sorry to me. My

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Speaker 3: friends that are listening that are in that camp, that

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Speaker 3: are but they know they are, you know, that's the

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Speaker 3: thing it's it's there's a I would say over they

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Speaker 3: a majority of the folks that you see on TV

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Speaker 3: don't know what they're doing, right, you know, they they

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Speaker 3: spend most of their time in the field on the

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Speaker 3: net's during these projects, right, so you know they're not

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Speaker 3: not you know, they're not like rookies, but they don't

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Speaker 3: have a lifetime and experience and definitely not generational knowledge. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know, I hate to pick on them. You know,

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Speaker 3: usually they're pretty face that shows up and there's usually

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Speaker 3: somebody who has had the experience off camera who's tell

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Speaker 3: them all about it and leading, you know, guiding them

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Speaker 3: through the through the process. And yeah, but even even me, man,

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you I'm go all over the world, and

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Speaker 3: I'm the first to admit that, you know, I don't

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Speaker 3: know anything about tigers or snow leopards, but what I've

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Speaker 3: learned in Montana and western North America, you can't apply

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Speaker 3: that stuff. You know, there's a bit of resiliency gained

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Speaker 3: from hunting, but there's some simple tracking stuff you gain

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Speaker 3: from hunting that you can't apply to other parts of

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Speaker 3: the world. So you're not starting off from scratch. But

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Speaker 3: you know, being humble enough to realize that when you're

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Speaker 3: in somebody else's backyard, listen, watch learn. Yeah, I'm always

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Speaker 3: learning and I love it. You know, I'm always learning

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Speaker 3: in my own backyard.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: That's the one thing. The more you out there, the

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Speaker 3: more you realize you've got so much to learn. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm an open minded dude. I never like

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Speaker 3: to use the word expert because I don't think there

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Speaker 3: are any yet.

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Speaker 2: That's the beautiful thing about hunting or wildlife in general.

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Speaker 2: It's an endless, an endless road to walk down. You're

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Speaker 2: never going to have it all figured.

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Speaker 3: Out for sure. Absolutely. So.

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Speaker 2: You grew up hunting as a kid with your family.

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Speaker 2: You fell in love with the pursuit of wildlife, studying wildlife.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned that in particular that the especially elusive critters

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Speaker 2: like mountain lions or maybe some of the other carnivores

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Speaker 2: that was particularly caught your attention. What was that like

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Speaker 2: and how did that kind of shift your career trajectories.

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Speaker 2: You started not just pursuing wildlife to eat them, but

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Speaker 2: also to study and then film these critters, tell these stories.

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Speaker 2: What was it about lions, wolves, bears that kind of

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Speaker 2: got their hooks their claws into for lack of a

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Speaker 2: better pun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean more you're you know, as a

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Speaker 3: hunter and being out there and killing elk and I mean,

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Speaker 3: I'll just just give you a little anecdote. I remember

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Speaker 3: one time because you reminded me of it.

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Speaker 4: Here.

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Speaker 3: I was like in fifth grade and I must have

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Speaker 3: had a little bit of a knack for tracking because

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Speaker 3: I'm in class and I remember the teacher. Ade walks

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Speaker 3: in the room and had to slip to the teacher,

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Speaker 3: and the teacher goes, O, casee, your dad's here to

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Speaker 3: pick it for that appointment. I don't. I'm like, I

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Speaker 3: don't remember this appointment. But I'm like, okay, So I

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Speaker 3: go to the office and there's my dad looking standing

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Speaker 3: there waiting for me, and so let's go to that appointment.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, I nod my head and we get

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Speaker 3: and get out the truck. He goes, I just shot

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Speaker 3: a big bull with my boat. We got to go

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Speaker 3: track this thing down. I lost the blood trail, you know.

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Speaker 3: So he lost the blood trail, so he knew that

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Speaker 3: I could help, you know. I think it was a

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Speaker 3: you know, part of that being a young kid too.

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Speaker 3: You don't get in your own way a little bit,

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Speaker 3: you can get focused. But he would do this all

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Speaker 3: the time, So my tracking capabilities were My Dad definitely

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Speaker 3: noticed him right away, and I think the more he

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Speaker 3: kind of celebrated him, the more I wanted to lean

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Speaker 3: into him. So then I guess, I guess where I'm

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Speaker 3: going here is that you know? So now there's these

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Speaker 3: other animals you see tracks of. You never get their

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Speaker 3: eyes on them, but you know, you know, fundamentally if

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Speaker 3: there's tracks on the ground and you can follow those

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Speaker 3: tracks at the end those tracts as an animal. So

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Speaker 3: what about this mountain lion? Right where's this thing at that?

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Speaker 3: I see its tracks all the time? So I think

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Speaker 3: that I became almost just obsessed with the idea of

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Speaker 3: trying to find these things I knew that were out

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Speaker 3: there and leaving their tracks behind. And that led me,

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Speaker 3: you know, I went to Montana State to study wild biology,

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Speaker 3: and then in the summer months, i'd go down to

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Speaker 3: Yellowstone and I would run into these guys that we

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Speaker 3: were talking about friars, these guys from la and New

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Speaker 3: York who were out here doing documentaries but not knowing

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Speaker 3: where to find things. And they would come up to

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Speaker 3: me and say hey kid, you know, I'll give you

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Speaker 3: fifty bucks a day to carry my heavy backpack on

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Speaker 3: top of the mountain and go try to find some

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Speaker 3: of these animals. And I'm like, seriously, like jackpot, right,

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Speaker 3: this is what I'm good at.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: So that's how it started. That's how I started, that

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Speaker 3: made that connection to TV. I would take those skills

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Speaker 3: that I learned from hunting and those tracking skills, and

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Speaker 3: now I'm out in the park searching for these elusive

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Speaker 3: animals I've always wanted to and making enough money to

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Speaker 3: you know, buy beer.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: So it was like it's how it went down. And

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Speaker 3: so that just metamorphosized into like, you know, the producers

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Speaker 3: asking me to do a little bit more, me helping

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Speaker 3: him produce some of the story ideas. And then ultimately

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Speaker 3: about my junior year, used to before my junior year

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Speaker 3: in college, a guy came up to me and says, hey,

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Speaker 3: I've got the series. It's this launched. I wanted, you know,

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Speaker 3: I need you to come along with me. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to go all over the world and you're gonna be

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Speaker 3: my sidekick and help me find animals. And I'm like yeah,

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Speaker 3: And I never looked back. I never did. I That's

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Speaker 3: what I've been doing since then.

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Speaker 2: So that's how it all. Yeah, So you grew up

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Speaker 2: in Montana at a particularly interesting time because before you

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Speaker 2: were born, we saw many of the big carnivores in Montana,

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Speaker 2: across the western United States kind of reach a low point. Right,

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Speaker 2: Grizzly bears reached their lowest point there in the seventies,

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Speaker 2: mountain lines were pretty close to their lowest point. Wolves

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Speaker 2: have been completely essentially eradicated from the Western United States.

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Speaker 2: And then in the nineties when you were in college,

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Speaker 2: I guess wolves are reintroduced. Grizzly bears have been slowly recovering,

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Speaker 2: reaching higher levels than they had in a while, Lions

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Speaker 2: showing back up more and more. What was that like

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Speaker 2: growing up and seeing that change and seeing these critters

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Speaker 2: start showing back up. Was there any point where you

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Speaker 2: kind of remember like a before and after or like

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Speaker 2: when you were really young, these things are pretty rare,

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Speaker 2: and then by the time you're in college and beyond,

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Speaker 2: now all of a sudden you're seeing this different world.

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Speaker 2: Was that noticeable? What was that like?

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Speaker 3: Oh Man so much? I mean he really kind of

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Speaker 3: painted the picture there, I mean literally, as my start

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Speaker 3: of my career that these animals were invisible and they

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Speaker 3: just started coming back. I mean, growing up seeing a

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Speaker 3: mountain lion, seen a grizzly bear, it is so rare.

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Speaker 3: You know, wolves like a fantasy, right, something from the

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Speaker 3: far North, and then to be you know, one of

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Speaker 3: the first projects I worked on knocked down on those

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Speaker 3: the pens. When they had the wolves ready to release,

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Speaker 3: we did you know, a guy guy showed me a map.

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Speaker 3: He's like, hey, I'm going to get some footage of this.

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Speaker 3: And I looked at him, like, well, let's this go on.

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Speaker 3: The back door doesn't close back there, it's going to

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Speaker 3: take us about fourteen mile hike. And he's like, let's

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Speaker 3: do it. So we went back and shot some like

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Speaker 3: snipered some you know shots of the wolves and the pen.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know at the time what was going to be,

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Speaker 3: what was going to happen. It was interesting. Even then

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Speaker 3: I was so skeptical. I mean, half my family are

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Speaker 3: cattle ranchers, and you know, they weren't real happy about it, so,

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Speaker 3: you know, it was it was interesting time. And then yeah,

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Speaker 3: as my career started launching, these animals were gaining ground

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Speaker 3: and you see more and more of them to the

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Speaker 3: you know, and arguably you know, then the early two thousands,

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Speaker 3: you know, the grizzly bear started popping up like crazy.

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Speaker 3: You start seeing more and more, and it was it

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Speaker 3: was interesting, and it actually had a lot to do

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Speaker 3: as the launch of my career. You know, I started

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Speaker 3: going out there and having pretty guaranteed sidings and observation

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Speaker 3: and opportunity with grizzly bears, and that was taken advantage

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Speaker 3: of it. Yeah, no, I mean it was. It's still changing.

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Speaker 3: You know, it is a very strange time to be

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Speaker 3: involved in this because I've watched it go, like I said,

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Speaker 3: from zero to one hundred in the last few decades,

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Speaker 3: and now we're trying to make decisions of what we're

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Speaker 3: going to do with all these animals, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's where all sorts of interesting conversations come up.

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Speaker 2: And there's never been a shorte of controversy with these critters, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean before the reintroduction of well even before all that. Right,

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Speaker 2: if we really rewind the clock, you've got you know,

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Speaker 2: European American settlers coming across the country and encountering gray

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Speaker 2: wolves and grizzly bears for the first time, and pretty

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Speaker 2: quickly not wanting them around, and then over the next

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Speaker 2: hundred some years essentially getting to work eradicating them, and

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Speaker 2: then they're rid of them. And then when we talk

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Speaker 2: about trying to help bring them back, there was all

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Speaker 2: sorts of fear and hysteria around. Well, if you bring

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Speaker 2: back wolves, it's gonna demolish all the elk, it's going

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Speaker 2: to kill all the cows, et cetera. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of that. I'm sure you were hearing that from your

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Speaker 2: family members and people there in the mid nineties. And

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Speaker 2: then wolves were brought back and grizzly bears have been

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Speaker 2: protected and slowly have been returning. There's still a lot

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Speaker 2: of that talk today, right, there's still a lot of

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Speaker 2: people who say, well, you know, the wolves destroy the

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Speaker 2: hunting here, or the wolves are destroying our ability to

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Speaker 2: make a living on the land. What's the reality been

377
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Speaker 2: from your view? You've been in the middle of it,

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Speaker 2: You've lived a lot of it. You have friends, I'm

379
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Speaker 2: sure I've heard you talk about friends who are elk

380
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Speaker 2: hunting guides and friends who are wildlife viewing guides. So

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Speaker 2: you've had people who've dealt with this from all angles.

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Speaker 2: What's the reality on the ground. Bin Have we lost

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Speaker 2: all the elk? Has it become impossible to raise cattle?

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Speaker 2: Is it something in between or is it the Disneyland

385
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Speaker 2: story that some folks also say where it's you know,

386
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Speaker 2: wolves are just you know, shooting out rainbows and butterflies

387
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Speaker 2: from their butts and saving all the world's problems. What's

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Speaker 2: the truth?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate the question, and and I can only

390
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Speaker 3: tell you the truth from one of my truth right.

391
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Speaker 3: It's the truth is it's somewhere. It's very gray and

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Speaker 3: somewhere in the middle from what I see. You know,

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Speaker 3: I actually go out and try to find wolves all

394
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Speaker 3: the time. It's hard. It's hard, man. Wolves aren't everywhere.

395
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Speaker 3: They're hard to They're hard to find. I see results

396
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Speaker 3: of them being out there. I definitely just let's just

397
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Speaker 3: take some kind of a metric here. Let's take elk.

398
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Speaker 3: Elk's a great one because I grew up hunting them,

399
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Speaker 3: and there was a heyday in the nineties before the wolve.

400
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Speaker 3: Early nineties, Man, there were there were elk everywhere everybody.

401
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Speaker 3: All my friends were out shooting them. You know, all

402
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Speaker 3: the guys that could couldn't hike up a trail quarter

403
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Speaker 3: mile or getting a bowl, right, So if you look

404
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Speaker 3: at it in that aspect, it was easier to haunt elk.

405
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Speaker 3: But do I think the ecosystem was was healthy? Probably not.

406
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Speaker 3: It was healthy for an elk hunter, but it wasn't

407
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Speaker 3: healthy holistically. Yeah. I think that I've, you know, in

408
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Speaker 3: some level, and I've I've talked about this. I've killed

409
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Speaker 3: my biggest bulls. Lately, I feel like there's bigger bulls

410
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Speaker 3: out there than there ever has been. I mean, I

411
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Speaker 3: remember in the early nine ers you can go out

412
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Speaker 3: there and you'd see like one hundred you know, brusheads

413
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Speaker 3: in a day, you know what I mean, But you

414
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Speaker 3: you know the real big whoppers. Man, I feel like,

415
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Speaker 3: you know, records are getting broken constantly. And I'll tell

416
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Speaker 3: you what I like to hunt better now. There's something

417
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Speaker 3: about it, man, beyond the landscape with predators, to beyond

418
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 3: the landscape with praise, species that are weary, who don't

419
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Speaker 3: give you the second glance when you crack the branch,

420
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Speaker 3: because there's other predators out there that are not going

421
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Speaker 3: to be forgiving. You're hunting them more like there's a

422
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Speaker 3: I don't know, I have a lot more pride, I

423
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Speaker 3: guess in it in some level. So there's that. I mean,

424
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Speaker 3: I'm just giving you that. But you know, as a predator,

425
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Speaker 3: you know, the predator thing waxes and wings from just

426
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Speaker 3: a guy who's seeking them out all the time. You know,

427
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,199
Speaker 3: there's a lot of there's a push right now for

428
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Speaker 3: grizzly bears. But I've notably noticed in the last couple

429
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Speaker 3: of years, I'm actually seeing less grizzly bears than I

430
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 3: ever have. I don't know why. Maybe they're changing their habits.

431
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 3: I you know, the only wolves I've seen in the

432
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 3: last couple of years regularly or been in the in

433
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 3: Yellowstone Park, and there's parts outside the park to where

434
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 3: I see wolves all the time. But I think they're

435
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 3: getting weary too, because they are getting hunted and they're

436
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 3: very hard to find, not an easy animal to hunt,

437
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 3: whether you're with a camera or a rifle. So it's

438
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 3: all changing. I think there's that that mix between humans

439
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 3: and humans and predators is evolving, and they're changing their habits,

440
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 3: even if if even if there's more on the landscape,

441
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 3: they're I don't know, they're just getting more weary period. Yeah,

442
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 3: that's what I'm seeing.

443
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 2: So so let's say you're at a diner or some

444
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 2: bar in Paradise Valley or Livingstone, or or maybe you're

445
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 2: traveling your over in Minnesota checking out the boundary waters

446
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 2: or something, and someone's sitting at the bar next to

447
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 2: you and they're talking about this very topic. And let's

448
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 2: say they're a hunter, and they're saying, man, we used

449
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 2: to have good deer hunting here up in northern Minnesota,

450
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 2: and now I can't hardly see a deer. It's because

451
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,199
Speaker 2: of the damn wolves. Or you're there in Livingston and

452
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 2: someone's talking about all the elk hunt is not like

453
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 2: it used to be in the nineties. Wolves ruined it.

454
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 2: What do you say to someone like that? How do

455
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 2: you carry on a conversation? What do you what do

456
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 2: you try to share with them? Given your experience that's

457
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 2: pretty unique from compared to many.

458
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 3: You know, first thing I do, Mark, is I listened

459
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 3: to them, because everybody's got their living their own life,

460
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 3: you know, and animals, they all have their own values

461
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 3: out there, and you know, hympathize with anybody who's lost

462
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 3: livestock or and not seen as many deer around their

463
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 3: trees stand in Minnesota or whatever. Man, I do because

464
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 3: I think that there's change on the landscape. I'll listen

465
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 3: to them, and I don't ever I don't know. I

466
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 3: don't ever disagree or pushback or try to preach my agenda.

467
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 3: I don't have an agenda, you know. I I think

468
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 3: the main thing I try to do is help them

469
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 3: understand the importance of a healthy ecosystem, and that includes

470
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 3: about I mean includes predators, a balanced ecosystem. I feel

471
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 3: like if we could all agree on that, if that

472
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 3: was the bottom line, no matter what are. You know

473
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 3: what our value is, you know what stakeholders we represent.

474
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 3: That if we just want a healthy, well balanced ecosystem,

475
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 3: that's that a win for everybody. Yeah, you know, the

476
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 3: wolves in Montana is a tough one, man. I mean

477
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 3: there's part of me that wishes and that knew they're

478
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 3: just north of Helena. I knew there's wolves around there.

479
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 3: I hurt them, howling have seen their tracks. This is

480
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 3: pre reintroduction. And if you took the amount of money

481
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 3: and and value the chaos that created and just gave

482
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 3: them time and try to open up corridors, wolves would

483
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 3: have been in Yellowstone. I've been social wise, they would

484
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 3: have been accepted. You know, a little lot more, and

485
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 3: I always wish that that would have been the case.

486
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 3: But here we are, you know, bears. I think it's

487
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 3: another thing. I mean, we hear about them. You only

488
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 3: to hear about them because they've done something wrong, right,

489
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 3: you know, And so I'm always trying to paint the

490
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 3: picture of the other side the truth. I mean, I

491
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 3: I've argued, probably have had thousands of bear encounters, and

492
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 3: they've all been pretty good, you know. But at the

493
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 3: same time, I'm not the rainbows and stars. You're not

494
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 3: your butt thing either. I mean, I've also carried a

495
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 3: man off a mountain who's killed by a grizzly bear.

496
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 3: I've been around the dark side a lot too, So

497
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 3: I know there's a reality of that, you know, And

498
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 3: I think that the truth lies there in the middle.

499
00:25:58,480 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 3: And the other part of it is, I think those

500
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 3: of us who lived amongst amongst all these animals, I mean,

501
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 3: I think we have to have a pride in the

502
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 3: fact that we do and kind of you know, kind

503
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 3: of honor and respect our neighbors no matter what. Man,

504
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 3: Because there's a lot of people that don't live in

505
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 3: the country with grizzly bears and wolves. There's a lot

506
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 3: of people that go in their backyard and don't have

507
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 3: to worry about them or think about them, and they're

508
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 3: not living man. And I think that I've tried to,

509
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 3: you know, get folks to realize that we that this

510
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 3: is a gift to have these animals in our backyard.

511
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 3: And there is something about that the wildness that you

512
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 3: have by having large fetters on the landscape, that is

513
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 3: is such holds such value and you feel it when

514
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 3: you go to these places that don't have it. You know,

515
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 3: my grandpa cattle rancher, you know, he was a he

516
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 3: had a lot of pride in being a Montana cattle

517
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 3: rancher and dealing with forty below winters and grizzly bears

518
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 3: and wolves and you know, and if you heard people

519
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 3: are you know, arguing about it or complaining about it.

520
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 3: He always said, there's a lot of grass and Nebraska

521
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 3: and that's proby a better place to raise cattle, you know.

522
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 3: And it's it's just kind of that the state of mind.

523
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 3: I guess it's just like you gotta have pride in

524
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 3: some level. And I think it's gonna be tough. We

525
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 3: got to I don't know the answers. I think it's

526
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 3: gonna be give and take and compromise. And that's when

527
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 3: I sit down with those people that you're talking about.

528
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 3: I try to find that compromise, you know, I try

529
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 3: to hear them out. I play double advocate from all sides,

530
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 3: and that's say hey, can we meet in the middle

531
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 3: somewhere on this, because ultimately, I think that's what's gonna

532
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 3: where it's gonna have to end up. Yeah.

533
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, because because like you said, the reality is somewhere

534
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 2: in between, and for some reason, big carnivores. I guess

535
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 2: many things polarize these days, but big carnivores especially seem

536
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 2: to polarize, and you get someone on on one side

537
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 2: or the other believing the this kind of radicalized, curated

538
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: story about the critter where it's either they're they're solving

539
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 2: all the world's problems or they are all the world's problems,

540
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 2: right when, as you said that, the reality is there

541
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 2: in between. The reality is that, you know, the elk

542
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 2: population in Montana is actually higher now than it was

543
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 2: prior to wolf reintroduction. But to your point, it is different.

544
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 2: There are some places where they're not as easy to

545
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: kill as they used to. I've got a good friend

546
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 2: of mine who I went on a wolf hunt with

547
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 2: last year, kind of studying this talking to people about

548
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 2: this set of issues. I went on a mountain lion hunt,

549
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: I went on a wolf hunt, and I went wolf

550
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 2: watching and exploring Yellowstone, trying to talk to as many

551
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 2: different people as I could to understand this set of

552
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: topics from these different perspectives. Right, And the fact of

553
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: the matter is that, yes, like wolves have impacted prey

554
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 2: populations in some places, in some localized places a lot.

555
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: But at the same time, they've not destroyed it everywhere.

556
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 2: They've not ruined hunting. They've maybe just changed behavior or

557
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: shifted locations or you know, rebalanced populations in relation to

558
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 2: the habitat. Maybe we're closer to where they maybe should

559
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 2: have been at one point, but not as many as

560
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 2: some hunters of like. Of course, another thing is that,

561
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 2: like I'm sure you've seen this and heard this a

562
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,959
Speaker 2: thousand times, predators are very easy to point a finger at,

563
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 2: like they are obvious things like oh, that's the problem,

564
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: when in reality the truth is much more nuanced. Right,

565
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 2: Oftentimes habitat related things and human development related things on

566
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 2: all that is impacting you know, prey populations but you

567
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 2: layer on top of that, then yes, there is some

568
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 2: predation happening, and then that's going to seem even more serious.

569
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: And then the wolves are a lot easier to get

570
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: mad at than the fact that I'm building a new

571
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 2: house and you're building a new house, and your buddy's

572
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: building a new house, and you know, habitat is changing

573
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Right, that's that's

574
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 2: a harder story to wrap your head. But on the

575
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 2: flip side, then you've got the same thing with you know,

576
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 2: folks who live in New York City who love wildlife

577
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 2: and who watch all the nature docum, they watch all

578
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: your shows, they watch everything on Netflix and Discovery Channel

579
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,479
Speaker 2: and whatever, and they do a couple of nice posts

580
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 2: on Twitter or whatever talking about how much they love animals.

581
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 2: But then they think that ranchers are horrible because they're

582
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 2: upset with the fact that wolves are killing some of

583
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 2: their cattle, or they hint that hunters are horrible because

584
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: some of us are frustrated sometimes with the impacts, And

585
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 2: so I think to ignore either one of the realities,

586
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 2: the fact that there are challenges with predators, but at

587
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 2: the same time, there are real values to having them,

588
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 2: like there's there's truth to both sides of that, and

589
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 2: ignoring you either one of those sides, you know, puts

590
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 2: you in a place where you're just not seeing truth.

591
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 2: You're seeing this kind of kaleidoscopic view that's all painted

592
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: one color, and that makes it really hard to ever

593
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 2: find a solution. Like you said, right, the solutions probably

594
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: lay there in the middle.

595
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 3: Well said, that's all Well said now completely, And I find,

596
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 3: you know, because they now have the responsibility and you

597
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 3: you're in the same boat. We're talking to people. We

598
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 3: have a bunch of people listening to us. And I

599
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 3: find myself more and more these days trying not to

600
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 3: preach the choir. I try to lean it, you know,

601
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 3: reach across the fence and pull folks in the middle.

602
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 3: I tried to, you know, I just did a thing

603
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 3: about bear spray bolls versus bullets. I try to be

604
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 3: very honest about it, you know, show showcasing both sides,

605
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 3: not preach. Let people make their decision about what they wanted,

606
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 3: what they want to use for bear defense, you know.

607
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 3: And I know that I've nicknamed them, you know, I

608
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 3: used this before, But the jeth Rows and the moonbeams.

609
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 3: So those are the extremists, right, the jeth throw sorry

610
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 3: jeth throw out there. I'm sorry to pick on your name,

611
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 3: but you know, they're the ones that are going to

612
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 3: push the button and eliminate all the predators. And then

613
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 3: the moonbeams are the ones, like I said, they have

614
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 3: some spiritual connection during a full moon, that have some vibe,

615
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,719
Speaker 3: you know, and they love all the predators. You know.

616
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 3: I may never get their ears, but there are a

617
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 3: lot of folks in the middle to both sides, and

618
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 3: they don't know which one to be on. And I

619
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 3: think that you know, giving them the right information and

620
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,959
Speaker 3: talking to them about the things that you just mentioned,

621
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 3: most folks listen, and most folks are pretty smart. You

622
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 3: let the facts out in front of them and they'll

623
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 3: make some pretty good decisions. And I think we got

624
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 3: to resist the extremism. I think we got to We

625
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 3: just got to say no, we're not going that route anymore.

626
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 3: We're tired of this polarization. It ain't working, it's broken,

627
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 3: So it's time to let's find this compromise in the middle.

628
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 3: And a lot of people, look, I have some friends man,

629
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 3: and both sides that look at me and call me

630
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 3: a whimp for picking that middle ground. And yeah, I'm sorry, man,

631
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 3: I guess I'm a wimp, but I think it's the

632
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 3: way forward.

633
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 2: Well, I've liked to refer to it as this, and

634
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 2: I think I heard you say the same thing or

635
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 2: something like it. It's like the radical center. It's kind

636
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 2: of radical now to be in the middle. And I

637
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 2: think that actually takes maybe the most boldness these days

638
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: is to resist falling into this while you're in this

639
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: camp of this camp, resist that that's the easy choice

640
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 2: to be like, Oh, that's my team and I'm just

641
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 2: going to follow them for wherever they go, whatever they say.

642
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: It's a lot harder these days to carve out your

643
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 2: own path somewhere in the middle and maybe pick a

644
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 2: little bit from both sides and hear both sides and

645
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 2: consider different ideas. That's a that's a tough path to

646
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 2: to hoe.

647
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 3: But yeah, and I think we got to make that

648
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 3: team strong. Man. I tell you I've gone to all

649
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:27,959
Speaker 3: the I go to a lot of the Fish Wildlife

650
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 3: Commission and meeting they're listening at very least, and it

651
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 3: is the it's the jet throws and the moonbeams that

652
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 3: show up and talk they're allowed. Man, they're the squeaky

653
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 3: wheels and that radical center that we need that needs

654
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: to exist. They don't show up, and we need to

655
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 3: show up. The radical center needs to show up. And

656
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 3: we got to talk, and we gotta we got to represent.

657
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 3: And I'm and you know, honestly most people officially in

658
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 3: Montana that that's who they are. You know, they just

659
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 3: choose not to speak up for some reason. I don't

660
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 3: I don't know what it is.

661
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, you talked about earlier how you'd like to kind

662
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: of push back on the kind of I'm strgging to

663
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 2: think of what I'm trying to say here, but you

664
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 2: kind of push back on the obvious things like if

665
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 2: you're talking to someone on one side of the issue,

666
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 2: you'll kind of give them the devil's advocate perspective, and

667
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 2: then if you're over on the other side of the

668
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 2: issue talking to folks of there, you'll give them the

669
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: other side and kind of, you know, push on, pushback

670
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 2: on both. So we kind of pushed back a little

671
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 2: bit on the idea that you know, large carnivores are

672
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 2: destroying wildlife and destroying hunting and destroying ranching. There are challenges,

673
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,439
Speaker 2: there are localized impacts, but all the studies have also

674
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 2: shown that, you know, it's not cataclysmic on the flip

675
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 2: side though, then there's also the Moonbeam story, you know,

676
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 2: in Yellowstone for example. Right there was the reporting and

677
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 2: the studies that came out, you know, ten years after

678
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 2: reintroduction about the ecological impacts the wolves were having, and

679
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 2: there was the eventually social media posts and films and

680
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 2: videos talking about how wolves change rivers and all the

681
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 2: different things like that that the trophic cascades story and ideas,

682
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: and then I don't know, ten years ago or however

683
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 2: long it was, then new studies came out saying, well,

684
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 2: that's that's not quite right. There's actually other things that

685
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 2: are impacting you know, beavers and grassland production, all this

686
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. So maybe the wolves change rivers thing

687
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 2: isn't everything that it was that those those stories told us.

688
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 2: And when that all came out, what I heard from

689
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 2: my community from hunters was jumping on that and latching

690
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 2: onto it and saying, wow, all that stuff was overload

691
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 2: of croc All the trophic cascade stuff is blowny. Anything

692
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: like wolves and bears aren't all you know, everything that

693
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 2: the crazy California Disney World. People said get rid of them, right.

694
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: That was like the Jethrow reaction to the news that

695
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 2: the Trophic Cascade store was a little bit more complex.

696
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 2: The jeth Throw reaction was that means it's bs again.

697
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 2: The truth is more in the middle. From what I've

698
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 2: learned in my research is that there is something there,

699
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: but it's a little bit more gray. This is a

700
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 2: very long winded way to get to a question. Sorry case,

701
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 2: My question is can you speak to what the reality

702
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 2: is of the positive impact of having these animals on

703
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 2: the landscape? Because you mentioned this earlier, You mentioned like, hey,

704
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 2: there's importance to having a balanced ecosystem, there's importance to

705
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 2: having wolves and bears and lions on the landscape. It's

706
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 2: easy for someone to say that. It's harder for someone

707
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 2: to understand that. Can you help us understand what does

708
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 2: that mean? What does that look like? And and was

709
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: the Trophic Cascades story a load of croc or is

710
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: there some reality there but maybe just not as simplified

711
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: as those videos and early stories made it seem.

712
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was some good, pretty good propaganda from that side,

713
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,919
Speaker 3: you know, Like you said, I think that at first

714
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 3: it did appear that it was something that made sense.

715
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 3: But I think you're right, it's blood gray there. I

716
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 3: think that part of it's true, But there's a lot

717
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 3: of other bits and pieces that are missing from that story.

718
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 3: Are that actually add to that. What's happening in the change,

719
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 3: Like you mentioned, I's going there, So what have I

720
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 3: seen on the ground. Do I think wolves had created

721
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 3: a more vibrant ecosystem? Yes, it's the short answer is yes.

722
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 3: But I think it's it's it waxes and WANs, it

723
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 3: gets out of balance and then we you know, you know,

724
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 3: as soon as the wolf hunt came in and there

725
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 3: was some actual animals being harvested and they were moving

726
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 3: around and not getting the sedentary, at some level things changed.

727
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 3: And I feel like I honestly do. And again there's

728
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 3: all the moon beams are getting mad at me, but

729
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 3: you know, there's a couple of things that happened there.

730
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 3: The actual ecosystem seemed more vibrant. Everybody was a little

731
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 3: bit more happy, and I remember, I mean, and I

732
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 3: was like, yes, you know, like we got we got

733
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 3: like I've got friends that hated wolves ten years ago

734
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 3: and now love them because they love hunting them so much, Right,

735
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 3: and if you in ten years ago, if they could

736
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 3: push the button and all the wolves that disappeared, they

737
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 3: would have. Now there's no way they would do that

738
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 3: because they enjoy that. They enjoy going out there and hunting,

739
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 3: actually hunting them, so now they found value in them. Yeah,

740
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 3: there's not there's not a many elk on the on

741
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 3: the landscape. It's harder to find antlers in some of

742
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 3: these spots where I used to go find them laying

743
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 3: around everywhere, and during the shed season. There's a lot

744
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 3: of things like that. But you know, there's there's more.

745
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 3: I see more diversity of wildlife, especially meso predators, you know,

746
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 3: things like bobcats and badgers and pine martin and things

747
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,240
Speaker 3: that you almost never seen. Somehow there's more around. And

748
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 3: whether that's directly a tie to wolves, I don't. I

749
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 3: can't make that correlation, but there's certainly more. It's more vibrant,

750
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 3: more variable than I've ever seen it, more closely to

751
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 3: pure you know. The other thing is the more we

752
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 3: curate the wild, we're just domesticating it. You know, if

753
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 3: we take freaders up the landscape, we have a bunch

754
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 3: of unculates kind of being lazily around, you know, and

755
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 3: we're one step away from putting fences around them and

756
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 3: call them cows. But when you have predators and lands came,

757
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 3: there's on the landscape and they're shaking things up. You

758
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 3: can see it, you can feel it. There's just something

759
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 3: about every animal is just a little bit on edge

760
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 3: living life, a little bit more alive. And I think

761
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 3: that that's that's something to consider, you know, we can

762
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 3: cons we can continue down the road of you know,

763
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 3: let's be honest. I mean, the more regulations and the

764
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,760
Speaker 3: the more taking predators off the landscape and all that stuff,

765
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 3: we're just we're one step closer to Europe, you know,

766
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 3: and go there and go walk around the wild and

767
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 3: tell me how awesome it feels. Yeah, And I think

768
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 3: that on the next step is what we have down

769
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 3: in Texas, you know. And so I think that we've

770
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 3: got to look at it and realize that those animals

771
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 3: are doing something to make it better and making and

772
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 3: keeping and maintaining the wild. I'm not a biologist. I'm

773
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 3: not out there measuring things and stuff like that, but

774
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 3: I can just feel it, and I can just see it.

775
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 3: And as a person who's out there pursuing multiple species

776
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 3: to film and wanting and finds value and seeing them

777
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 3: and their interactions with each other. I'm seeing it more

778
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 3: than ever. And I'm sure it has to do with

779
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 3: having predators on the landscape.

780
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. I feel like that is so much

781
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 2: more relatable, I think, for people than a biological study

782
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 2: that says, well, because wolves are back on the landscape,

783
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 2: it reduced the amount of time that elk spend on

784
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 2: this patch of habitat by fifteen percent, which increased grass

785
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,240
Speaker 2: production by twenty two percent, which led to more birds

786
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 2: on the more birds in the valley, and slightly less

787
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 2: pressure on willows and aspens, which eventually led to more

788
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: beavers on the pond. And YadA, YadA, YadA, like all

789
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 2: those things might be true, and it seems like, right,

790
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 2: there are these these cascading effects that when you insert

791
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,919
Speaker 2: or remove an animal from a natural ecosystem, it has

792
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 2: a set of ripple effects on everything around it. Everything's

793
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 2: connected in some ways, right, But that's hard to wrap

794
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 2: your head around when you're reading some kind of thick study.

795
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 2: But when you're out there, you're right, you can feel it,

796
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 2: and I know that's fuzzy, and that's obviously not irreviewable

797
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 2: or publishable in the journal. But you can feel a difference.

798
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like when you point out the difference

799
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 2: between like walking around in Nebraska versus Montana, I can certainly,

800
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: you know, a test to the fact that everything is different.

801
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 2: The volume is turned up to eleven. It just feels

802
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 2: like everything you and every other animal in the landscape

803
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 2: is on a different level. Everything is heightened, The stakes

804
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 2: are higher. Every sound, smell, shape, movement matters, and that

805
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 2: finds its way into every ounce of your being when

806
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 2: you're out there. Man, So there's something there. There's so right,

807
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 2: there's something there.

808
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a funny one, you know. I think another

809
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 3: thing is a lot of people they used the baseline

810
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 3: of what's a healthy ecosystem quote unquote, that's what it

811
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 3: was in the past. You know, like my my father's generation,

812
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 3: you know, grew up in an overpopulated health population at

813
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 3: some level, you know where that was all there everywhere,

814
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 3: especially the yellows in ecosystem, and they think that that

815
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 3: that's the baseline where you need to get back to. Right.

816
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 3: But it was very what's the word, you know, it

817
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 3: was just very uh, I can't think of it, but

818
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 3: it was just yeah, very it's artificial, artificial, yeah, and

819
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 3: it was just a lot of el but there was

820
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 3: a lot of not a lot of other things. Yeah,

821
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 3: it felt different back then. So you know, I don't know, man,

822
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 3: I think that I have the wolves made it in

823
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 3: a better place. I think they have and they haven't.

824
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 3: You know, if you take put the human factor in,

825
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 3: I think that there's some people who lost a lot

826
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 3: of jobs and the wolves came in, But there was

827
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 3: a bunch of people who got jobs, you know. I

828
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 3: know even in the Park County, the county and this

829
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 3: north of y Elstone here, I mean half a million,

830
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 3: half a billion, five hundred million dollars go into tourism

831
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 3: and a lot of that's just to come see wildlife.

832
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 3: And it's ever increasing. And I think that, you know,

833
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 3: a lot of people are celebrating the diversity of wildlife

834
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 3: that we have here that include wolves and grizzly bears,

835
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 3: because that is a big draw. White people come here,

836
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 3: but they also come here to see everything else, and

837
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 3: everything else is here because of those wolves and those

838
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 3: grizzly bears are here too. It's hard. It's hard, you know,

839
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 3: It's it's like you're saying it's easy to connect those

840
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 3: little dots, right, but to look big picture and let's look,

841
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 3: let's look thirty years, forties, one hundred years. I mean

842
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 3: nature works in thousands of years, right, not not these

843
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 3: short term things. And are we doing something good? It

844
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: seems like we're on the right path. But I do think,

845
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 3: you know, these prettters need to be managed. And that's

846
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 3: the bottom line. We live in a world that is

847
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 3: greatly influenced by people habitat fragmentation. We're leaving our mark,

848
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 3: you know, and if we just left everything unmanaged, it

849
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:37,479
Speaker 3: would be a catastrophe. So it's getting the other side

850
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 3: to realize that that's part of the equation. That's very

851
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 3: tough sometimes, but I think more and more people are

852
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 3: starting to come around.

853
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's continue down that line. There's this the

854
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 2: reality of the of the situation. If we're willing to

855
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: look at things that, yeah, like you just said, management

856
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 2: is needed. There are all these different ways we're influencing

857
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 2: wildlife now that require that we maintain being a part

858
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 2: of it. Right, Maybe if you turn back the clock,

859
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 2: you have to turn back the clock a very very

860
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 2: long ways, twenty thousand plus years. If you want to

861
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: see what North America was like before humans were here.

862
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 2: But we've always been a part of it, but less

863
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,240
Speaker 2: so maybe than we are now. So maybe twenty thousand

864
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 2: years ago or ten thousand years ago, we had a

865
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 2: lighter touch, and huge populations of carnivores existed on the

866
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 2: landscape with huge populations of herbivores, and they are able

867
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 2: to live in balance. But now, to your point, there's

868
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,439
Speaker 2: all these different things going on. Having both of these

869
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 2: things out there is important, but you know, there are

870
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: all these human elements too, and part of managing wildlife

871
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:51,839
Speaker 2: now is also managing wildlife people relationships, and sometimes that

872
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 2: is just as important for the future of a species

873
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:56,800
Speaker 2: as the actual numbers on the ground.

874
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 3: Right.

875
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: So to your point, when wolf hunting was reached, was

876
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 2: so wolf's are reintroduced. There's a lot of anti wolf

877
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 2: sentiments from hunters and ranchers. But then when wolf hunting

878
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 2: was opened back up, you mentioned that it made a

879
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 2: lot of people happy on the hunting side, right, Folks

880
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 2: all of a sudden had a sense of agency. They

881
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 2: felt like they could do something about it. They could

882
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 2: get out there and chase these critters and maybe impact

883
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 2: things a little bit. The way they'd like to see them.

884
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 2: But at the same time, it's still managed, there were

885
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 2: still quotas, it was still regulated. So you said something

886
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 2: that confirmed a theory I've always had and I'd love

887
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 2: to hear more about it, which was that I've always

888
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 2: thought that by opening a hunting season, by having an open,

889
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 2: carefully managed, and regulated season for a carnivor of some species,

890
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 2: it actually improves the long term prospects for that species,

891
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 2: because yes, there will be some taken through hunting, but

892
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 2: it increases support for that animal because now you have

893
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 2: a new constituency that has a reason to value that animal.

894
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 2: So you said it perfectly with wolves, right, because now

895
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,760
Speaker 2: there are some folks out there who used to hate wolves,

896
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: but now they're okay with wolves or even like wolves,

897
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 2: because they've started hunting them. They feel if they have

898
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 2: some control. Maybe they've developed a relationship with the species

899
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:13,919
Speaker 2: in a different kind of way now because they've spent

900
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 2: time out there looking for them, studying them, learning about them,

901
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, you have more people that

902
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: want that critter around, maybe not the same levels that

903
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 2: an anti hunter or just an animal activist wants, but

904
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 2: they still want them around. I think mountain lions are

905
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: a great example of this. Right, some of the most

906
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 2: some of the most kind of like profoundly involved advocates

907
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 2: for lions in America are houndsman line hunters for sure.

908
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 2: So is there you know, from your perspective, do you

909
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 2: think that that holds Is there that hold water? Is

910
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 2: that something that you know we could make a case

911
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 2: to the larger environmental crowd, like, hey, this is actually

912
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 2: gonna help wolves in the long run, this is actually

913
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 2: gonna help lions in the long run. Could this help

914
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: grizzly bears in the long run? That's very contentious right now?

915
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,359
Speaker 2: Could you could you expand on that a little bit more?

916
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the bottom line is is that if

917
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 3: if the majority or even more than half of the

918
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 3: majority of the people don't want the animal there, that

919
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 3: it won't be there. Changing the value quote unquote value

920
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,760
Speaker 3: to for an animal within the perspective of people changes

921
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 3: a lot. And you said some things that I think

922
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 3: are really important. I'll try to touch on. But you know,

923
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 3: so once an animal seems, once an animal becomes able

924
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:37,359
Speaker 3: to hunt, it does the value changes? You know, now

925
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 3: you have it's a game species, it's an animal that

926
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 3: you can go out and enjoy being out in the

927
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 3: outdoors and in pursuit of you like you said, you

928
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 3: have that can you have that connection that you feel

929
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 3: like you're actually doing something to potentially save the elk

930
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 3: or whatever you you're worried about. Yeah, and then and

931
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 3: then again, what you were saying, I think is the

932
00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 3: most important is that when you're on the landscape with

933
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,439
Speaker 3: these animals, now you're hunting them, and you're learning about them,

934
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 3: and you're pulling the veil off them a little bit.

935
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 3: As you learn about them and observe them, you start

936
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 3: you start to understand what they really are. And I

937
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 3: think that you know, like I said, once you understand

938
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 3: who these animals really are, then you can actually have

939
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 3: a real perspective of their place on the in the

940
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 3: ecosystem and their place in the world. You know, the

941
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 3: lion hunters, houndsman man, it was. It's a great example,

942
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 3: like I said, right now, there's houndsmen, especially in the

943
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 3: state of Montana, there's a you know, kind of a

944
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 3: big push to reduce the line population and the houndsmen

945
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,839
Speaker 3: are like they're the biggest animal advocates out there right now.

946
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 3: I mean, they're like hell, no, we won't go or

947
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 3: you know, we're going to draw the line. And it's

948
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 3: all based and real science. You know, in fact, a

949
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 3: lot of the sciences is from these line in the

950
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 3: front of these houndsmen. Because they're the only ones out

951
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 3: there looking for cats. Are the only people out there

952
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 3: that have any idea how many of them are out there.

953
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 3: They've got their finger on the pulse of these animals.

954
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 3: And I think that you see that with even bear

955
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 3: hunters in the North and Alaska and stuff like that.

956
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 3: They're the ones that have the actual pulse on these animals.

957
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 3: And if there was a quota that we got too

958
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 3: high up there, they'd be the first ones pounded on

959
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 3: the doors of the congressmen saying no, we're not going

960
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 3: to go there. So moral of the story is if

961
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 3: we can collectively all have value in these animals, and

962
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 3: again the common goal is that we want them to

963
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 3: be healthy on the landscape, because you can't hunt animals

964
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 3: that are not healthy on the landscape, and you can't

965
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 3: photograph animals that are not healthy in the landscape. If

966
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 3: that's the common denominator and we're all fighting for it,

967
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 3: then the animal is going to thrive long term and

968
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 3: everybody's going to be happy. And I think this we

969
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 3: go we look for it's it's pulling back. And here's

970
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 3: the thing, like with grizzly bears right now, you know,

971
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 3: and lions and wolves, it's all of them. As soon

972
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 3: as you introduce fear into the management any emotion or

973
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 3: lack of fear, you know, any of these. As soon

974
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 3: as you introduce emotion into wildlife policies and decisions, it

975
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 3: goes wrong. And I think a lot of the pushes

976
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 3: I see from a lot of people right now to

977
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 3: dealistic grizzly bear comes out of fear. We gotta hunt

978
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 3: them because they're getting too comfortable, you know, or you

979
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 3: know whatever. No, we gotta hunt them because because whenever

980
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 3: that happens, when the population is time to hunt them,

981
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 3: not because they're getting too comfortable or I'm too I

982
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 3: see three of them when I go ol hunting now,

983
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 3: and I'm afraid, you know, that's not why we hunt.

984
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 3: We gotta hunt these animals. We got to hunt them

985
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 3: because they've reached the population now that they're a huntable population,

986
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 3: and I think that we got to hold that line,

987
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 3: you know, And so you know why protected animal they

988
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,919
Speaker 3: are afraid of and that's one of the hardest things

989
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 3: right now. So another big part of what I do

990
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 3: is trying to help people understand that, yeah, these animals

991
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 3: can be potentially dangerous, but your fear might be a

992
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 3: little blown out of proportion here and let me tell

993
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 3: you why. And this is this from thirty years of experience,

994
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 3: and that's all I'm just trying to do. You're trying

995
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 3: to do. Yeah, did I answer that question? Kind of

996
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 3: went on a take it there a little bit, But

997
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 3: I think it does come down to value. And I

998
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 3: think that if we can get everybody to want these

999
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 3: animals to be in the landscape for whatever reason. But again,

1000
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 3: the common denominator is that we want these healthy populations

1001
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 3: to either hunt or healthy populations to either take pictures

1002
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,359
Speaker 3: of whatever. But that's the common denominator. If we can

1003
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,399
Speaker 3: all agree on that, man, then everything's good.

1004
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1005
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 2: Well, here's the funny thing is, as I've been kind

1006
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 2: of working through this myself and working on this book

1007
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,879
Speaker 2: that I was telling you about, one of the realizations

1008
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 2: that I that I had was at both sides of

1009
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:10,240
Speaker 2: this issue need the same thing for their life values,

1010
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 2: their lifestyles to continue the future if you look at

1011
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 2: the traditional animal lover environmentalists who wants to see lots

1012
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 2: of grizzlies and wants to see wolves, they need those

1013
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:23,280
Speaker 2: critters to be In order for those critters to be around,

1014
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 2: they need open, wild, healthy, intact landscapes.

1015
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 3: Right.

1016
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 2: We have some of that on public lands, but as

1017
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 2: you know, many of these critters live off of National

1018
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 2: park lands. Many of these species. If we want them

1019
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:37,399
Speaker 2: to continue to live into the future, if we want

1020
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 2: grizzly bears to maintain genetic variability, to not just be

1021
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 2: an island population in Yellowstone, they need to be able

1022
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 2: to have habitat outside of the parks, right, So they

1023
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 2: need open, undeveloped, healthy habitat. So what is that that's

1024
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 2: private lands? Who owns all these private lands around Yellowstone

1025
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 2: or Glacier National Park or Colorado? Well, it's ranchers and

1026
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 2: land owners who live in these valleys who are trying

1027
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 2: to either make a living raising cattle or sheep, or

1028
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:10,839
Speaker 2: they're probably hunters. They're people who make a living on

1029
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,479
Speaker 2: that land. Well, what's happening to allow of those people, Well,

1030
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 2: it's hard to make a living these days, it's hard

1031
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 2: to make a profit. They're having to sell off to

1032
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 2: subdivisions or to whoever it is, all the many different

1033
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 2: people that want to purchase these properties and develop them

1034
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 2: for one reason or another. So for that to happen,

1035
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 2: for us to keep undeveloped lands, for us to keep

1036
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 2: ranchers in business, and keep these undeveloped lands out there,

1037
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:39,439
Speaker 2: what do we need to do. We need to help

1038
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,360
Speaker 2: make their life a little bit more manageable. We can't

1039
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,799
Speaker 2: make their life so they can't make a living. We

1040
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 2: need them to be able to turn a profit and

1041
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,879
Speaker 2: to be able to maintain their way of life. How

1042
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 2: do you do that? Help them coexist with carnivores, Help

1043
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 2: lessen that burden a little bit, Help make it so

1044
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 2: they can live alongside these critters. Now flip it to

1045
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 2: the other side. These ranchers and hunters. They want to

1046
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 2: be able to keep on hunting. They want to keep

1047
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 2: on raising cattle or sheep or whatever it is. They

1048
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 2: want to live their life. They want to be able

1049
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 2: to do these things they've done. Well, what do we

1050
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 2: need to do to make sure that they can do that.

1051
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 2: It's not going to be wiping grizzly bears and wolves

1052
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 2: off the landscape. It's not going to be you know,

1053
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 2: taking matters into our own hands and shoot, shovel and

1054
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,839
Speaker 2: shut up that kind of thing and making hunters look

1055
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 2: horrible and making ranchers look like they're part of the problem. No,

1056
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 2: they need to showcase and would benefit from showcasing the Hey,

1057
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:36,879
Speaker 2: we want these lands. We would love to be able

1058
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 2: to make a living out here doing this kind of stuff.

1059
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 2: Maybe there's creative ways to make a little bit of

1060
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 2: money from a fee added to National park passes. Maybe there's,

1061
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 2: you know, all these different habitat leasing programs, ways that

1062
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 2: we can you know, compensate folks who are bearing the

1063
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 2: burden of having this wildlife on their property that's benefiting

1064
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 2: them and everyone else around them. So I think there's

1065
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:00,840
Speaker 2: ways that if we look at what's needed, which is

1066
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 2: healthy habitat open landscapes. You need that to hunt, you

1067
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 2: need that to be able to see wolves. You need undeveloped,

1068
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 2: intact places. You need that to ranch, you need that

1069
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 2: for grizzly bears to spread out to where they are.

1070
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 2: We all want the same thing, but the only way

1071
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:16,800
Speaker 2: we're going to get it is by kind of realizing

1072
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 2: there's some compromise in the middle that we need to

1073
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 2: make and then we have to understand the two different

1074
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:22,879
Speaker 2: perspectives a little bit and give and take a little

1075
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 2: bit here and there to finally get that stuff, because

1076
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 2: we can't do it by ourselves, right, we need everyone

1077
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 2: kind of pulling in the same direction. Does anything that

1078
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 2: make sense? I'm kind of I'm laying all of my

1079
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 2: ideas on.

1080
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 3: Your singing my song. Man, you're singing my song. Everything

1081
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 3: you said is so so accurate. I've once said one time,

1082
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:46,800
Speaker 3: like the ranchers man are the the It's the greatest.

1083
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 3: They're the greatest thing for wildlife right now. I mean

1084
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 3: it really is. I mean without them, we'd be wildlife

1085
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,280
Speaker 3: would be in big, big trouble. And we just people

1086
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 3: have got to connect the dots to make that realization.

1087
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 3: These wide open spaces under a threat of development. You know,

1088
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 3: I've watched my family sell up, their sell off their

1089
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 3: ranches and thirty acre parcels here and there to development

1090
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 3: over the years. And it's hard. It's hard, but it's

1091
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 3: because it's a hard living and and it's people aren't supported,

1092
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 3: you know, Yeah, you know, are there ways we are

1093
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 3: we you know, in my backyard, we're working with ranchers

1094
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 3: here who are willing to let all animals on their property.

1095
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 3: We're trying to figure out ways to mitigate conflict. There's

1096
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 3: a lot of innovation with AI and different technologies right

1097
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,959
Speaker 3: now that are really moving the needle, and there's going

1098
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 3: to be a time I think that that people are

1099
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 3: going to realize. I feel like people are moving that

1100
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 3: direction that these wide open spaces are super important for

1101
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 3: everything and that we need to maintain them and how

1102
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 3: can we make them sustainable and through And it's through acceptance,

1103
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 3: it's through taking through these technologies. Yeah, no, you're preaching.

1104
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 3: You're preaching my my gospel by all that. Man. I

1105
00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 3: think Kenyon Anderson for twenty eight, I don't know, let's go.

1106
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:04,439
Speaker 3: I think it's I think it's good. I mean because

1107
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 3: I think that this is a this is a narrative

1108
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 3: that not a lot of people are. It's not speaking loudly,

1109
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 3: but I really do. I think it's common sense solutions.

1110
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 3: You know. I talk to ranchers that are like they

1111
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 3: want the help. You know, sure there's the shoot shovel,

1112
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 3: shut up folks like you said out there, but they're

1113
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 3: they're going extinct, man, they really are. I think a

1114
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 3: lot of these younger younger folks that are taking these

1115
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 3: ranches over. They they they see that they can raise

1116
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 3: cattle through the summer months, hunt in the fall, and

1117
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 3: then take take those same people out and show them

1118
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 3: wildlife for the winter. You know, they can double dip,

1119
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 3: triple dip. Right. They see the value of these animals

1120
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 3: on the landscape. I mean, some of the best documentaries

1121
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 3: I've made mountain lions, wolves, and grizzly bears have all

1122
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 3: been on private land. It's some of the greatest habitat

1123
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 3: out there. I'll give you another example, and I I've

1124
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 3: seen firsthand. This is ridiculous, but it's true. I've seen

1125
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 3: some spots where cattle overgrades in areas and some thistles

1126
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 3: popped up, and then in the spring, the voles love

1127
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 3: the thistle root and the bears come in and hammer

1128
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 3: that area. And I've seen it, and it's in this

1129
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 3: very specific time where the bears are mating. So you

1130
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 3: see these large congregation of grizzly bears on the landscape

1131
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 3: going to these cattle ranches mating, and then it's actually

1132
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 3: bolster and the grizzly bears are actually populations getting bolstered

1133
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 3: by being on cattle ranches, you know, and I always wondered,

1134
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 3: is that, you know, is there an aspect of that

1135
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 3: that's kind of emulating something that happened with the bison?

1136
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 3: You know, who knows? Right, I think we just got

1137
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 3: to dig into all these things and figure out what's

1138
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 3: what's working. And we've got to make sure these large

1139
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 3: these large spaces still remain because we lose them, we're

1140
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 3: in trouble.

1141
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. So so another thing like and again I'm you

1142
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 2: are helping me here, like pressure test some of the

1143
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 2: things that I've been trying to like put into words.

1144
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 2: So so I'm I'm getting an unpaid service out of

1145
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 2: you here.

1146
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 3: Case I appreciate conversation a lot.

1147
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 2: One of the best at well yeah, me too. This

1148
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 2: is stuff like I've been thinking about for so many years,

1149
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 2: and and it's really hard to articulate it though in

1150
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 2: like a social media post, right, because these things are complex,

1151
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 2: they're nuanced, they they resist simplification, right. So I've always thought, man,

1152
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 2: I need a big place to really put it all

1153
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 2: out there. And so that's what part of this book

1154
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 2: has become that I'm that I've been working on and

1155
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 2: and one of the things that became very apparent to me,

1156
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 2: and I've always thought it is going back to like

1157
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 2: what our values are for our community, the hunting community.

1158
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 2: One of the things that's very valuable to us is

1159
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 2: the ability to continue hunting well into the future. Right

1160
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 2: where it's very easy to get folks fired up about

1161
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 2: defending our rights to hunt, right, that's that's an easy

1162
01:00:57,440 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 2: thing for us to understand. We need to maintain our

1163
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 2: rights and releg is to hunt well. What is that

1164
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:05,800
Speaker 2: dependent on? That is dependent on public support, because we

1165
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 2: live in a democracy where the majority rules, and you know,

1166
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 2: if eventually the ninety six percent of the nation who

1167
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 2: doesn't hunt, all of a sudden not you know, what's

1168
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 2: the word I'm looking for here, stop supporting what we do.

1169
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 2: We're in trouble. There will be ways to lose our

1170
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 2: rights to hunt if we lose that public support. So

1171
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 2: this is a long winded way of saying that we

1172
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 2: need to be careful about our pr We need to

1173
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 2: be careful about how we present ourselves. We need to

1174
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 2: be careful about how the larger community looks at hunters

1175
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:40,160
Speaker 2: and the value the hunting provides. Right now, one of

1176
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 2: the best ways we've done that the hunting community We've

1177
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:47,479
Speaker 2: always said, we've always liked to prophesize to the world

1178
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 2: that we are the best conservationists. We're the original conservations

1179
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 2: where the real true, you know, hands on the ground,

1180
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 2: hands in the dirt conservationists.

1181
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 4: Right.

1182
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 2: We do a lot of good stuff, and there's a

1183
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 2: lot of truth to that, tons of truth to that.

1184
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 2: But if at the same time we are saying all that,

1185
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 2: some hunters are also driving around with pickup trucks that

1186
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 2: say shoot a pack, or smoke a pack a day,

1187
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 2: or shoot shovel and shut up, or posting pictures on

1188
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 2: social media with an illegally shot wolf hanging by a noose,

1189
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 2: or different things like that that I've seen, And all

1190
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 2: of a sudden, the non hunting public sees this and

1191
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 2: they say, oh, that's hunters. They're people who hate wolves

1192
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 2: and hate grizzlies and want to kill them all, and

1193
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 2: want to whack and stack and pile up two hundred

1194
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 2: coyotes and just just kill them all. That's what hunters are.

1195
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 2: It seems like you only want to conserve the species

1196
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 2: that you want around, but you're willing to just eradicate

1197
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 2: everything else. That doesn't seem like a conservationist that raises

1198
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 2: a lot of red flags about what hunters are, or

1199
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 2: who hunters are, or what they are bringing to the

1200
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 2: table here. I've always thought that this predator hate crowd,

1201
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 2: which is probably a small it's a bad apple, few

1202
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 2: bad apples within our community, but they can be a

1203
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:04,479
Speaker 2: loud community. They are really self defeating. They are really

1204
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 2: hurting our ability to maintain our rights to hunt in

1205
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 2: the future. They're not helping hunters by killing a bunch

1206
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 2: of wolves. In talking about it in this way, they're

1207
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 2: actually hurting our future because of that. Have you seen that?

1208
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 2: Have you thought about that? Have you experienced any of that?

1209
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 2: What's your take?

1210
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 3: I tell you you and I have the same mind. Yeah,

1211
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 3: one hundred percent.

1212
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 2: Man.

1213
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 3: I think that we've got they may be doing the

1214
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 3: most damage. I really believe that. And I've said this before,

1215
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 3: and I've got a lot of people come back to

1216
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 3: me and say, no, gun rights folks and animal activists

1217
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 3: like Peter are doing the most damage. But I don't know.

1218
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 3: I don't think so. I think that we all know

1219
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 3: what they're doing. Most of the world knows what they're doing.

1220
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 3: They can smell what they're doing. But when they see

1221
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 3: someone label themselves as a hunter and do exactly the

1222
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 3: things that you said that that tarnishes the hunter more

1223
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 3: than anything. And those folks who are on the fence

1224
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 3: that you know about that, when they see that it's

1225
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 3: it makes them change their mind. Those other folks have

1226
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 3: already changed their mind. It doesn't matter. So it's a

1227
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 3: big part of what I do, man. I tell you,

1228
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 3: I think it's an important thing is that, you know,

1229
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 3: I when it comes to demographics, and I mean I

1230
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 3: can literally look at if I look at my socials,

1231
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 3: I'm about fifty to fifty, you know, I have fifty

1232
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 3: percent hunters and fifty percent tree huggers, you know, and

1233
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 3: so and sometimes I'll, I'll honestly do I'll do a

1234
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 3: little bait and switch, man. I'll I'll put something up

1235
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 3: and I'll pull in some hunters and I'll throw out

1236
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 3: some heavy, fluffy stuff to them, and then vice versa.

1237
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 3: You know, I'll put something fluffy out there and I'll

1238
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 3: pull it in and I'll, you know, take a picture

1239
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 3: with an elkrack on my back and say this is

1240
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 3: coming straight to you from a hunter, right. But I

1241
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,439
Speaker 3: want to pull people into the conversation because I think

1242
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 3: that we got hunting will go extinct. If people don't

1243
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 3: continue or don't continue to advocate for it, don't weave

1244
01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 3: the garden, meaning look for those people that are doing

1245
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 3: that and just get tell them no, stop it, do

1246
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 3: not support it, you know, and tr trust me that

1247
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 3: pressure will go on when fellow hunters start saying, dude,

1248
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 3: that's not cool, over and over again, that pure pressure

1249
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 3: will make a difference. And we got to do that.

1250
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 3: We got to call these people out because if we don't,

1251
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 3: we're in trouble. Per I mean, I think and I've

1252
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 3: seen it, and it's that's there's some sloppy stuff out there,

1253
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 3: and you know, I even think it goes as far

1254
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 3: as you know, these big issues like grizzly bears. If

1255
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 3: you want grizzly Bears delisted as a hunter, talk about

1256
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 3: it with facts, right, talk about it coming from a

1257
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 3: place that makes sense. You know, if you start to

1258
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 3: getting real emotional about it and it comes from a

1259
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 3: bunch of bs and a bunch of old school mentalities

1260
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 3: that don't make any sense. Everything else you say that

1261
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 3: comes out of your mouth, no one's going to stand.

1262
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 3: You're going to listen to it. And that includes saying

1263
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 3: I'm a hunter and it's worth being around. So think

1264
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 3: about what you're saying, think about the decisions you're making,

1265
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 3: and make sure they're based on that. Man. I think

1266
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 3: that's super important.

1267
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 2: So let's dive into the grizzly bear situation a little

1268
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 2: bit more, because this one is is hot. It's been

1269
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 2: hot for a long time. It's going to get hotter

1270
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 2: now as it's seemingly likely given the political wins, that

1271
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:25,000
Speaker 2: they're probably or there's a high chance of them getting

1272
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 2: delisted now and maybe they're being hunting seasons in this

1273
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:31,920
Speaker 2: somewhat near future. All of that is going to be

1274
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 2: this huge Some will view as like a huge win,

1275
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 2: some will view as a huge loss. I will look

1276
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 2: at as like this very fragile moment where things could

1277
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 2: be made or broken for a long time. For example,

1278
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 2: if you are a hunter like we are, and if

1279
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 2: you think that grizzlies should be managed like other animals

1280
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 2: and that there should be a hunting season for them

1281
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 2: at some point, can you imagine the negative ramifications if

1282
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 2: a grizzly bear hunt were opened up and some famous

1283
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 2: bear from the edge of Yellowstone or edge of Rantiiton

1284
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 2: is shot by a slob hunter who posts something nasty

1285
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 2: about it and like glad to have this piece of

1286
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 2: shit off the landscape or whatever. Can you imagine this

1287
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 2: will be cecil lyon CeCILL the lion times a thousand, right,

1288
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 2: So there's going to be this massive pr both opportunity

1289
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 2: and risk if this happens right. It could be the opposite.

1290
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:37,520
Speaker 2: It could be someone who comes into it like you're describing,

1291
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 2: who says, hey, I'm a conservationist, I'm a wildlife advocate.

1292
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 2: I am a hunter. And you know, the biologists say

1293
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 2: now is the time to hunt them, and they're going

1294
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 2: to do it in a careful, regulated way. So I

1295
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 2: want to be a part of that, and I want

1296
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 2: to do it the right way, and I want to

1297
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 2: show respect to these animals and to everything else out here.

1298
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 2: And that person could be a tremendous ambassador and maybe

1299
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:00,439
Speaker 2: change the minds or educate some people. But it could

1300
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 2: go either way so easily. So I guess what I'm

1301
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 2: curious about your take on this case is where do

1302
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:12,520
Speaker 2: you land on this delisting issue. It's a tricky one

1303
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:15,200
Speaker 2: because well, I won't say what I think, tell me

1304
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 2: what do you think?

1305
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 3: It's it's it's a tricky one and it's one that

1306
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 3: I just I wrestle with obviously because people people really

1307
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:24,680
Speaker 3: listen to me about grizzly bears. I wrestled with it

1308
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:27,960
Speaker 3: for a lot of reasons. But again I draw the line,

1309
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 3: and I've drawn the line for myself and the same

1310
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 3: thing I said that we got to talk to other

1311
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 3: people about the same conversation I got to have with

1312
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 3: the Minnesota guy in his tree stands in the north Woods.

1313
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 3: What is going to create a healthy ecosystem, a balanced

1314
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 3: ecosystem if biologists say that the grizzly bear numbers have

1315
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 3: reached saturation, reached capacity, and it's time to take him

1316
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 3: off the list. I mean, delisting is what is a

1317
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 3: wonderful thing for species? Right It's a It's a marker

1318
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:05,920
Speaker 3: that the population is growing and becoming more healthy. That's

1319
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 3: what we ultimately want. Right now, At what point do

1320
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:11,639
Speaker 3: we start to hunt them? I think it's a different metric, right.

1321
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:15,720
Speaker 3: They're an animal that has a low reproductive rate, They're

1322
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 3: an animal that's very susceptible to changing environment. I think

1323
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 3: all those things got to be in consideration. Like you said,

1324
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 3: it's a very fragile time in many ways, and that's

1325
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:27,880
Speaker 3: one of them. I think Montana. You know, I've heard

1326
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:30,680
Speaker 3: they're going to wait five years no matter what, to

1327
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 3: really get a finger on the pulse of what the

1328
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 3: grizzly bears are doing before they even think about hunting them.

1329
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:37,760
Speaker 3: I think that's I think that's great. I think that

1330
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 3: that's smart. I think the fact they put a number

1331
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:42,640
Speaker 3: on it like that right off the top is a

1332
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 3: It shows the care in some level. But then you know,

1333
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:50,599
Speaker 3: how many, how many can we hunt? What bears are

1334
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 3: we trying to hunt? I think it's a lot of

1335
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 3: stuff like that, And I think it's important that you

1336
01:09:57,520 --> 01:09:59,360
Speaker 3: know this is these are biologists that are making this

1337
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:01,519
Speaker 3: decision that and have an agenda. I always like this

1338
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 3: idea of kind of a committee of biologist that may

1339
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 3: be on a little bit both sides the fence, you know,

1340
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 3: kind of really balance it out, because you know, no

1341
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 3: matter what, when these desisions are made, there's always that

1342
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:15,840
Speaker 3: everybody's got a little bit of a a twist, a spin,

1343
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:18,680
Speaker 3: no matter what. It's just in a human right, you

1344
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:21,560
Speaker 3: have a bias. Right, So I think it gets is

1345
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:26,679
Speaker 3: an unbiased of folks at the table that say, okay,

1346
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 3: it's time green light, right, and then man, I mean

1347
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,639
Speaker 3: that's my it's my take. What do we want? I mean,

1348
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 3: what do we want with grizzly bears? We want grizzly

1349
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:37,960
Speaker 3: bears to be on the landscape and the healthy population

1350
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 3: that you can get along with people and coexist, And

1351
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:45,160
Speaker 3: if that that requires hunting to manage, then that is

1352
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 3: then that is a great thing to do. And that's

1353
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 3: the bottom line. Do I think that we're ready for

1354
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:52,639
Speaker 3: it right now? I mean, right now, there's a lot

1355
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:54,839
Speaker 3: of other management things that are going off with wildlife

1356
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:56,599
Speaker 3: that I think, Wow, they're really having a hard time

1357
01:10:56,640 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 3: figuring this out. So do I think they're ready to

1358
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:01,439
Speaker 3: handle something as compli geated to the grizzly bear right now?

1359
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 4: No?

1360
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:04,400
Speaker 3: Do I think they can in the future if they

1361
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 3: get their ducks in a row? Yeah, do I think

1362
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:08,720
Speaker 3: that that would be a big win for the grizzly bear.

1363
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 3: Believe it or not, it would be. If we can

1364
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:12,840
Speaker 3: get our ducks in a row, we can come up

1365
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 3: with the statistics that bears are ready to be hunted

1366
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 3: based on not fear, but on biological facts by as

1367
01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:23,720
Speaker 3: unbiased committee of biologists, then it's a celebra It's something

1368
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 3: to celebrate, absolutely, And then we've got to be super careful.

1369
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 3: As you said, Mark, you know, as hunters, we have

1370
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 3: to be very respectful. We got to look at as

1371
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 3: a gift that we're gonna we're gonna baby and take

1372
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 3: care of respectfully. And then you know, we got to

1373
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 3: look at something we're gonna be proud of a lower

1374
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 3: forty eight states, and we have we live in a

1375
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:45,519
Speaker 3: place that we've managed and taken care of so well

1376
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:48,200
Speaker 3: that we're allowed to hunt grizzly bears because there's enough

1377
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 3: of a healthy population and there's ecosystems that exist in

1378
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:55,320
Speaker 3: this place that are that are great enough to allow

1379
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 3: for grizzly bears to live in a healthy way. That

1380
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:01,200
Speaker 3: is awesome, and we got to celebrate that and take

1381
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:03,760
Speaker 3: care of it. So let's hope we get there. Man,

1382
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:05,640
Speaker 3: I don't know. Is that ten years from now, is

1383
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 3: that three years from now, is that twenty years from now?

1384
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:10,840
Speaker 3: I don't know. We can't do it too soon. I

1385
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:12,400
Speaker 3: think we got to be very careful with that. And

1386
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 3: I think it's hunters, we've got to respect that and

1387
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 3: realize that let's not do this too soon. Let's not

1388
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 3: jump the gun because we're a little bit afraid of

1389
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 3: these animals when we go out there, Let's not jump

1390
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 3: the gun because we're really bad at making elk cow

1391
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 3: calls and a bear comes in like it's a predator call.

1392
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:30,599
Speaker 3: Let's just let's just do it the right way.

1393
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:34,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so many angles to this one, and so

1394
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 2: much of it, like you said, is wrapped up an

1395
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 2: emotion on both sides of the issue. For sure, on

1396
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 2: the side that wants to hunt grizzlies. You mentioned the

1397
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 2: fact that some folks want to do that because they

1398
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:47,639
Speaker 2: think we need to reinstill fear in the bears. There's

1399
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 2: too many of them out there. When I go elk cunning,

1400
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 2: They're dangerous, They're a threat. Can you just expand on

1401
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 2: that side a little bit more? Because you've spent so

1402
01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:59,839
Speaker 2: much time with these bears yourself all over the country,

1403
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:04,040
Speaker 2: you understand them more than almost anyone in the country. Probably,

1404
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:08,840
Speaker 2: should I be afraid of grizzly bears out there? How

1405
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 2: much wood hunting change or not change that?

1406
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 3: Yeah? I appreciate this. I want to talk about this

1407
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:17,080
Speaker 3: because it's a good one. I've thought about this so much,

1408
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:18,920
Speaker 3: and I've been in places where there's bears that are

1409
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:20,840
Speaker 3: not hunted, and I've been in places where there's plate

1410
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 3: bears are hunted, and I've been in various places where

1411
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:26,960
Speaker 3: bears have different relationship with people. Here's the bottom line.

1412
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:29,679
Speaker 3: The bottom line is that bears are not out there

1413
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 3: to look. They're not looking for people to kill and

1414
01:13:31,479 --> 01:13:33,720
Speaker 3: eat them. Okay, people need to get that out of

1415
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:37,160
Speaker 3: their head. Has that happened yes, Can it happen yes,

1416
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 3: but it's getting struck by lightning twice? Kind of statistics there.

1417
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:45,960
Speaker 3: Why do bears attack people? Let's think about that. Let's

1418
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:51,560
Speaker 3: break that down from behavior away. The fundamental baseline behavior

1419
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 3: why a bear attacks people is because they are afraid

1420
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:58,479
Speaker 3: of them and they see it as a perceived threat. Now,

1421
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:00,800
Speaker 3: and I will, and I'm going to throw this out

1422
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 3: there on the record. When we are allowed to hunt

1423
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:06,880
Speaker 3: bears and there's people actively pursuing them out there and

1424
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 3: taking shots at them, we are going to see an

1425
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 3: increase in attacks. And it's going to be two full

1426
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:12,720
Speaker 3: and there's gonna be a lot of reasons why there

1427
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:15,080
Speaker 3: can be more people on the landscape actually putting themselves

1428
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 3: in bear scenarios. There's going to be bears that are

1429
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:21,439
Speaker 3: wounded and that are going to be acting in survival mode,

1430
01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:24,120
Speaker 3: and they're going to get people, and then there's just

1431
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:27,680
Speaker 3: there's going to be an increase of bears afraid of

1432
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:31,000
Speaker 3: people on the landscape. And the way that bears, grizzly

1433
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 3: bears specifically deal with things that they're afraid of two things.

1434
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:37,800
Speaker 3: They either run away or they fight. Fight or flight, right,

1435
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 3: And one thing about the lower forty eight grizzly bear

1436
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:42,600
Speaker 3: is that it chooses fight a lot more than a

1437
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:46,080
Speaker 3: lot of other bears do. So do I think that

1438
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:48,200
Speaker 3: making bears more afraid of people is a good thing,

1439
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:51,360
Speaker 3: not necessarily, not in the way that most people think

1440
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 3: it's going to because I think that is the very

1441
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 3: reason why they attack you. Yeah, and you know what

1442
01:14:57,160 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 3: dead bears don't teach real quick.

1443
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, before you go any further, how many times have

1444
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:05,920
Speaker 2: you been in close encounters like this with grizzles, Because

1445
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:07,680
Speaker 2: I want to make sure people understand this isn't just

1446
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:10,640
Speaker 2: like a random person saying this kind of stuff. You

1447
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:14,000
Speaker 2: have been in close contact in these types of situations

1448
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:16,400
Speaker 2: dozens hundreds of times.

1449
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 3: I mean it's not easily hundreds of times. I've been

1450
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 3: charged by bears at least a dozen times more than that,

1451
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 3: more than that, but I've also charged bears, probably more

1452
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:30,719
Speaker 3: than that, more than I've been charged. I've bear sprayed

1453
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 3: bears seven times. But I'm you know, I'm a unique guy.

1454
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:40,600
Speaker 3: I go out in the forest and I'm actively pursuing

1455
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:44,599
Speaker 3: grizzly bears, often with the wind in my face, sneaking

1456
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:46,160
Speaker 3: up on them to close the gap so I can

1457
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:49,400
Speaker 3: get close enough to get a good shot of them.

1458
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:53,439
Speaker 3: I spend time with them. I mean, I yeah, I

1459
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:56,400
Speaker 3: have again hundreds of encounters, and most of them bears

1460
01:15:56,479 --> 01:16:00,360
Speaker 3: run away they see me, but in place that they're

1461
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:05,200
Speaker 3: not hunted. Let's stick like cat my National Park. I've walked,

1462
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:07,720
Speaker 3: I mean, bears walk within ten feet of me and

1463
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:12,760
Speaker 3: don't even look at me. They just don't care. You're

1464
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:15,200
Speaker 3: not a threat. They don't look like you're at us food,

1465
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:16,479
Speaker 3: they don't look at you as threat, and they just

1466
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 3: leave you alone. They look at you like you're a

1467
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:20,880
Speaker 3: fox or something on the landscape and just don't care.

1468
01:16:22,479 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 3: But when we start taking shots at them, they're going

1469
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 3: to care. And I think that, you know, some were

1470
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:29,960
Speaker 3: gonna run away again, some are gonna get more afraid,

1471
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:31,640
Speaker 3: and some are going to use that flight part of

1472
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:35,040
Speaker 3: that response more. But there's gonna be those ones. They're

1473
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:37,559
Speaker 3: going to feel like they're in a corner and they're

1474
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:39,880
Speaker 3: gonna be extra afraid. There's gonna be a little bit

1475
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:43,559
Speaker 3: more fight. So that argument doesn't hold ground hold water

1476
01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:46,160
Speaker 3: at all, and I wish hunters would stop using it

1477
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:50,439
Speaker 3: because it doesn't. There's no statistics about that anywhere that

1478
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:54,679
Speaker 3: I've seen, and from my thirty plus years or almost fifty,

1479
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:57,040
Speaker 3: if you look at from a lifetime standpoint, I'd not

1480
01:16:57,120 --> 01:17:02,679
Speaker 3: seen any any evidence of that being true. So it's

1481
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:05,040
Speaker 3: just a bad argument, and I think it's part of

1482
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:06,720
Speaker 3: one of those arguments. Like I said, stop saying it

1483
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:08,439
Speaker 3: because it just makes you look like you don't know

1484
01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 3: what you're talking about.

1485
01:17:21,439 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 2: Now, continuing down that line of thought though with like fear,

1486
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 2: another reason why folks like to suggest that we should

1487
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 2: be hunting these grizzlies is that they are now spreading

1488
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:33,680
Speaker 2: outside of places that are appropriate for them to live. Right,

1489
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:35,600
Speaker 2: some people would say, well, it's okay for grizzlies to

1490
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:38,599
Speaker 2: live in Yellowstone, but I don't want them in Cody,

1491
01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:41,360
Speaker 2: or I don't want them, you know, knocking on the

1492
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:44,360
Speaker 2: door behind my place and drigs, I don't want them

1493
01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:48,080
Speaker 2: you know, bumping up to my ranch here in Livingstone

1494
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:51,120
Speaker 2: or wherever it is. There's folks who are afraid of

1495
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:54,720
Speaker 2: grizzly bears expanding outside of these little ranges that are

1496
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:58,680
Speaker 2: in now towards more of our historic range. You know,

1497
01:17:58,680 --> 01:18:02,320
Speaker 2: there's places like the here of Idaho excuse me, Idaho

1498
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:05,680
Speaker 2: that have been designated as a recovery zone for grizzlies

1499
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:09,679
Speaker 2: that have appropriate habitat that still don't have bears because

1500
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:11,280
Speaker 2: of the fact that they just haven't been able to

1501
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:15,679
Speaker 2: connect back into their consistently enough. Argument being by some peoples,

1502
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:17,920
Speaker 2: if we start hunting them, it will keep that from

1503
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:20,360
Speaker 2: ever happening and will push them back into their tiny

1504
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:24,600
Speaker 2: kind of micro islands of habitat right now, what do

1505
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:27,200
Speaker 2: you think about that? Aon like the fear of them

1506
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:30,120
Speaker 2: expanding and then be on the flip side, which is

1507
01:18:30,120 --> 01:18:31,479
Speaker 2: the benefits of them expanding.

1508
01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:34,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a tough one because you know people don't

1509
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 3: want them there. Then it's it's a tough you know,

1510
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:39,640
Speaker 3: should they should they be there? I don't know the

1511
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:42,120
Speaker 3: answer to that. You know, there are they are expanding,

1512
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:44,479
Speaker 3: They're going into their historic range. Where do we draw

1513
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:46,240
Speaker 3: the line of where they should be or where they

1514
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:49,720
Speaker 3: used to be. You know, eighteen fifty is that the

1515
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:51,680
Speaker 3: range that they should be able to get back into. No,

1516
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:55,320
Speaker 3: I mean we've done a lot since then, So I

1517
01:18:55,400 --> 01:18:57,719
Speaker 3: do think it's going to come down to again unbiased

1518
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 3: biologists saying, okay this, you know, they're there's going to

1519
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:03,680
Speaker 3: be some collateral damage, right for let's just use the

1520
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:07,160
Speaker 3: eastern Rocky Mountain front. Right now, we're seeing a massive

1521
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:10,680
Speaker 3: expansion of bears pushing off the front. Bob marshabled in

1522
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:15,680
Speaker 3: this area out into the flatlands, and there's a lot

1523
01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:17,479
Speaker 3: of ranchers there that haven't had a deal with grizzly

1524
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:23,280
Speaker 3: bears and it's you know, it's scary to them. They

1525
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:26,200
Speaker 3: don't know what to do about it. But simultaneously, there

1526
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:31,320
Speaker 3: are grizzly bears now moving into habitat that's completely suitable

1527
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:33,439
Speaker 3: for grizly bear and will benefit from having grizzly bears

1528
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:36,920
Speaker 3: on the landscape. So should we allow that happen? If

1529
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:38,479
Speaker 3: a few people are going to get mad, but it's

1530
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:42,040
Speaker 3: ultimately going to make the hundreds of thousands of acres

1531
01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 3: healthier ecosystem. I don't know the answer to that. It's

1532
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:48,519
Speaker 3: a tough one man it's a tough one. I would

1533
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:50,559
Speaker 3: love to see, you know, go out in the Missouri

1534
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:52,719
Speaker 3: River Breaks and know that there was grizzly bears running around.

1535
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:54,479
Speaker 3: But I'll tell you what, most people that live out

1536
01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 3: there don't want that, so maybe they shouldn't be there. Then,

1537
01:19:57,320 --> 01:19:58,920
Speaker 3: if most people out there don't want it to be

1538
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:02,519
Speaker 3: I don't know public land, you know, it's again, it's

1539
01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:08,800
Speaker 3: like if it's public land again, I think it's going

1540
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:10,840
Speaker 3: to come down to unbiased biologists kind of figuring out

1541
01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:14,080
Speaker 3: what's best for that land and what's best for the ecosystem.

1542
01:20:14,680 --> 01:20:16,320
Speaker 3: I can't give you a hard answer.

1543
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:18,960
Speaker 2: On that one, mark that's fair. It's a hard one

1544
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 2: to answer. A lot of this I think comes down

1545
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:25,479
Speaker 2: to value, like you talked about earlier, and in either

1546
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:31,360
Speaker 2: demonstrating the value that they provide already or finding ways

1547
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 2: for them to create value in different kinds of ways.

1548
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:37,559
Speaker 2: So for example, with like a rancher, private landowner, you know,

1549
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:39,679
Speaker 2: the public you or I might say that we benefit

1550
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:42,280
Speaker 2: from grizzly from grizzly bears being on their way towards

1551
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:44,800
Speaker 2: the Missouri Breaks because we know that that's gonna, you know,

1552
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:50,200
Speaker 2: in some ways create a more healthy holistic environment and ecosystem.

1553
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:52,679
Speaker 2: We would like to know they're out there, maybe see them.

1554
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:55,320
Speaker 2: How do we make sure that the rancher that lives

1555
01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:58,080
Speaker 2: next door is getting value out of that. Well, maybe

1556
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:00,680
Speaker 2: it's by compensating them in some kind of way for

1557
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:02,600
Speaker 2: the presence. Like I know there's programs out there in

1558
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:07,320
Speaker 2: eastern Montana around the American Prairie where they have programs

1559
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:09,959
Speaker 2: where if you get trail camp pictures of certain wildlife

1560
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:12,680
Speaker 2: on your private lands nearby, they'll pay you for that.

1561
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:16,600
Speaker 2: There's habitat leasing programs down by you, and you know

1562
01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:20,120
Speaker 2: southwestern Montana where folks are being paid for the presence

1563
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:23,880
Speaker 2: of elk or by doing certain habitat practices that would

1564
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:26,360
Speaker 2: be beneficial to elk or bears or wolves. They're going

1565
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:28,800
Speaker 2: to compensate the rancher saying that, hey, we know you're

1566
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:31,880
Speaker 2: bearing a burden of housing this public wildlife on your

1567
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:34,000
Speaker 2: land and there's some challenges that come with that, so

1568
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:36,120
Speaker 2: we're going to find ways to help, you know, make

1569
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:40,080
Speaker 2: this financially valuable for you too. Or like I mentioned earlier,

1570
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:42,559
Speaker 2: you maybe you've heard about one of these ideas that's like, hey,

1571
01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:47,960
Speaker 2: let's add a wildlife fee to every Yellowstone admission price,

1572
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:50,240
Speaker 2: so you add another ten bucks to every time someone

1573
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:53,320
Speaker 2: comes in on a bus into Yellowstone, and that ten

1574
01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:56,679
Speaker 2: dollars from four point five million people a year all

1575
01:21:56,680 --> 01:21:59,400
Speaker 2: gets put into a fund which then gets shared with

1576
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:02,839
Speaker 2: adjacent and landowners to help compensate them for the challenges

1577
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:05,759
Speaker 2: that they are bearing in there being elk or bears

1578
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:08,839
Speaker 2: or wolves or whatever. I wonder if there's more creative

1579
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:12,400
Speaker 2: ways that we can find to help make these animals

1580
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:15,760
Speaker 2: valuable to people, whether it be by allowing hunting so

1581
01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:17,960
Speaker 2: it's valuable to you in that kind of way, or

1582
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:22,000
Speaker 2: with financial reimbursement or whatever it is. But we need

1583
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:23,880
Speaker 2: to make these things a win win win for no

1584
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 2: matter which side of it you're on.

1585
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:27,920
Speaker 3: Man, that's so spot on. I think that we got

1586
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:29,840
Speaker 3: to look at those things. I think I've heard, you know,

1587
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:32,439
Speaker 3: even here in Park County. I'm part of a group

1588
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:37,320
Speaker 3: called the Wild Livelihoods Business Coalition, and we've talked about that.

1589
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:39,479
Speaker 3: You know, we've got a big portion of those four

1590
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 3: million people going through Park County down to the northern

1591
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:44,479
Speaker 3: gate of the park and they're spending money on bed

1592
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:46,479
Speaker 3: tax and you know all that stuff, and can could

1593
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:49,559
Speaker 3: there be a little bit of that chunk of percentage

1594
01:22:49,560 --> 01:22:52,120
Speaker 3: of that that goes back and does help out these

1595
01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:56,519
Speaker 3: folks that are basically harboring wildlife and keeping these ecosystems attacked.

1596
01:22:57,439 --> 01:23:01,600
Speaker 3: I think that's a great idea. Again changes the value perspective,

1597
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:05,439
Speaker 3: but overall it's a win win win, And again I

1598
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:07,879
Speaker 3: think that maybe that's the platform that the Kenyan Anderson

1599
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:09,479
Speaker 3: twenty twenty eight that we run on.

1600
01:23:11,720 --> 01:23:13,519
Speaker 2: At the very least, I need to drag you along

1601
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:14,160
Speaker 2: on my book tour.

1602
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:18,559
Speaker 3: But no, dude, it's such a it's such a smart

1603
01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 3: I love it because it Let's be honest, man, you

1604
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:23,840
Speaker 3: hate to bring up economics when you talk about wildlife,

1605
01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:27,559
Speaker 3: but it's the way the world goes around. And if

1606
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:32,839
Speaker 3: that's the value is actual money, then that's the value.

1607
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:37,320
Speaker 3: And it's it's just the way it works, and it's okay,

1608
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:39,519
Speaker 3: and I think people would sign up for it. Man,

1609
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:44,680
Speaker 3: people who love wildlife, you have a little bit of

1610
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 3: money to help them out. You know, hunters can buy tags, right,

1611
01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:52,360
Speaker 3: what can non hunters do something similar? You know, just

1612
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:54,400
Speaker 3: go buy a tag and it's some you know, and

1613
01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:57,400
Speaker 3: it supports these initiatives that I think there's a lot

1614
01:23:57,439 --> 01:23:58,880
Speaker 3: of people out there are smarter than me that are

1615
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:03,040
Speaker 3: figuring these things out all the time, and yeah, let's

1616
01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:04,960
Speaker 3: just do it and let's make it cool. I mean,

1617
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:07,160
Speaker 3: I hate to use that term. It's so simple. We

1618
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:09,680
Speaker 3: got to make it cool, right, It's got to be

1619
01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:13,280
Speaker 3: something everybody thinks is awesome and believes in, and all

1620
01:24:13,280 --> 01:24:16,639
Speaker 3: the silos are all thumb got the thumbs up about

1621
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:20,680
Speaker 3: it and saying this is good. Yeah, I think that's

1622
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:22,800
Speaker 3: what we got to do. And having this conversation right

1623
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:24,839
Speaker 3: now is a big part of it because there's people listening,

1624
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:27,920
Speaker 3: and those people that are listening can talk tell the

1625
01:24:27,960 --> 01:24:30,360
Speaker 3: same story to other folks, and we can make something happen.

1626
01:24:30,439 --> 01:24:31,000
Speaker 3: Move the needle.

1627
01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:35,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, if you could envision a future fifty years

1628
01:24:35,960 --> 01:24:41,959
Speaker 2: from no cases in which there are grizzly bears thriving,

1629
01:24:42,280 --> 01:24:46,639
Speaker 2: There are wolves in manageable, healthy populations across the country.

1630
01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:50,240
Speaker 2: There are also terrific herds of elk and moose and

1631
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:53,280
Speaker 2: mule deer and pronghorn, and hunters are still around happily

1632
01:24:53,280 --> 01:24:56,479
Speaker 2: doing what we love to do. And wildlife viewers are

1633
01:24:56,800 --> 01:25:00,559
Speaker 2: still happily viewing and visiting Yellowstone and all these other

1634
01:25:00,600 --> 01:25:03,720
Speaker 2: places and seeing critters and this imagine world where they're

1635
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:08,000
Speaker 2: still open and intact and undeveloped private lands surrounding these

1636
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:11,760
Speaker 2: public cores with ranching still a viable lifestyle. If all

1637
01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:16,000
Speaker 2: of that were still true in fifty years, what would

1638
01:25:16,120 --> 01:25:19,040
Speaker 2: have had to have happened over the course of that

1639
01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:21,000
Speaker 2: period to get there? What are the key what are

1640
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 2: the what are the key things? If we were going

1641
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:27,640
Speaker 2: to list out like the Casey Anderson's five commandments of

1642
01:25:27,680 --> 01:25:30,559
Speaker 2: how we can coexist with carnivores for the next fifty

1643
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:33,680
Speaker 2: years to make it actually work, what are those like

1644
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:36,800
Speaker 2: key tenants that has to happen. They could be something

1645
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:38,719
Speaker 2: we've already talked about, or if there's anything we haven't

1646
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:42,320
Speaker 2: discussed yet, what has to happen to make this a reality?

1647
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:47,799
Speaker 3: I'll start off with, Man, I don't have high hopes,

1648
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:51,559
Speaker 3: but I don't think it's impossible. And I think the

1649
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:53,599
Speaker 3: number one thing that would have to happen right now

1650
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:57,160
Speaker 3: is that we would have to just stomp on the breaks.

1651
01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:02,160
Speaker 3: I'm crazy right now, like everything that's crazy and what

1652
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:03,840
Speaker 3: I mean crazy, you know, and everybody knows what I'm

1653
01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:06,240
Speaker 3: talking about on both sides. We just got to hit

1654
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:08,080
Speaker 3: the brakes on it, right now hard. We got it.

1655
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:11,720
Speaker 3: We got to preserve what we have right now, right

1656
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:13,559
Speaker 3: and I think in fifty years, if we have what

1657
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:16,280
Speaker 3: we have right now, that would be a huge, huge win,

1658
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:20,639
Speaker 3: even amongst the chaos. You know, we gotta we gotta.

1659
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:25,839
Speaker 3: You know, this anti hunting movement, anti wildlife management movement's

1660
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:31,080
Speaker 3: gotta go away. The you know, eliminate forty percent of

1661
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:33,960
Speaker 3: the mountain population in Montana without even knowing how much

1662
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:35,880
Speaker 3: of the of a population of mountain limes. We have

1663
01:26:36,040 --> 01:26:40,160
Speaker 3: kind of mentality gotta go away. You know, all the

1664
01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:44,320
Speaker 3: wolves off the landscape. We don't need wolves in Montana.

1665
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:48,280
Speaker 3: They're bigger wolves from Canada. All that stuff gotta go away.

1666
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:53,040
Speaker 3: You know, wolves should not be hunted, No predators should

1667
01:26:53,080 --> 01:26:56,439
Speaker 3: be hunted. That's gotta go away. All that's gotta go away.

1668
01:26:57,600 --> 01:26:59,400
Speaker 3: And I and I think so the biggest thing is

1669
01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:01,479
Speaker 3: we got it. We just gotta. It's guys like you

1670
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:04,720
Speaker 3: and me, man, you know, that's why it's such an

1671
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 3: honor to be you know, part of this this podcast

1672
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:09,640
Speaker 3: and part of the greater meat eater world is like

1673
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:11,240
Speaker 3: I mean, Meter is doing it. I mean, I think

1674
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:15,280
Speaker 3: you gotta you gotta keep talking. You gotta keep communicating

1675
01:27:15,280 --> 01:27:18,280
Speaker 3: because most people who are making these decisions for the

1676
01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:20,840
Speaker 3: world to be a better the place that you've spelled

1677
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 3: out in fifty years don't know simply are ignorant to

1678
01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:27,720
Speaker 3: all of it and ignorances. It's not their own fault,

1679
01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:30,519
Speaker 3: it's just that there's no one telling them, right, there's

1680
01:27:30,520 --> 01:27:35,240
Speaker 3: not Grandpa who's a hunter talking telling stories anymore. They're

1681
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:39,840
Speaker 3: not listening to this. They're they're listening to crazy. And

1682
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:43,160
Speaker 3: so we we got the main thing is it's going

1683
01:27:43,240 --> 01:27:45,800
Speaker 3: to be communicating all this stuff and having these conversations

1684
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:51,200
Speaker 3: regularly and recruiting people to believe and yeah, and it's

1685
01:27:51,240 --> 01:27:53,880
Speaker 3: continuing to have biologists on the landscape who are making

1686
01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:56,000
Speaker 3: who are you know in this day and age, or

1687
01:27:56,080 --> 01:28:00,559
Speaker 3: keeping their finger on the pulse by the microsecond changing

1688
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:02,680
Speaker 3: you know it might they might have changed things a

1689
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:05,960
Speaker 3: couple of times a year to keep up with it.

1690
01:28:06,439 --> 01:28:09,840
Speaker 3: That's what it's gonna take, and it's it's gonna it's

1691
01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:13,600
Speaker 3: gonna take listening to each other. Right, you know, you

1692
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:16,160
Speaker 3: and I might not agree on everything, but we're willing

1693
01:28:16,160 --> 01:28:18,680
Speaker 3: to sit down in a conversation. I actually think we

1694
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:20,640
Speaker 3: might agree on everything based on the conversation but you

1695
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:24,600
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying, I think that, you know, we

1696
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:26,800
Speaker 3: got all talk, and I think it's important, you know,

1697
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:32,000
Speaker 3: not just preaching to the choir. I think all that's

1698
01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:32,679
Speaker 3: very important.

1699
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 4: You know.

1700
01:28:33,040 --> 01:28:35,120
Speaker 3: I'm raised. I've got three little kids. I got a

1701
01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:37,640
Speaker 3: three or five and a seven year old, and I

1702
01:28:37,680 --> 01:28:39,960
Speaker 3: look at them and I take them out on public

1703
01:28:40,040 --> 01:28:42,559
Speaker 3: lands and the other gona we gotta fight for public lands.

1704
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:45,160
Speaker 3: We gotta keep those things, you know, not one acre

1705
01:28:45,280 --> 01:28:48,840
Speaker 3: we can give away. But yeah, back to the kids,

1706
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:50,240
Speaker 3: I mean, I take I take them out there, and

1707
01:28:50,240 --> 01:28:53,479
Speaker 3: I just think, you know, I hope that you get

1708
01:28:53,479 --> 01:28:55,680
Speaker 3: to have a kid childhood. I did, you know. And

1709
01:28:55,720 --> 01:28:57,479
Speaker 3: it's scary because it doesn't look like it doesn't look

1710
01:28:57,520 --> 01:28:59,439
Speaker 3: like it's going to be that way, but it can

1711
01:28:59,479 --> 01:29:03,439
Speaker 3: be if we can hit the brakes on crazy, just

1712
01:29:03,479 --> 01:29:06,599
Speaker 3: say no and help the other, and help the other

1713
01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:09,760
Speaker 3: ignorant people who don't understand what we're fighting for understand.

1714
01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:13,519
Speaker 3: And yeah, I think that's it.

1715
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:13,720
Speaker 2: Man.

1716
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:16,840
Speaker 3: I don't know, because I think I think most people,

1717
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:18,559
Speaker 3: when the facts are laid out in front of them

1718
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:22,840
Speaker 3: and it comes from a place of logic, people make

1719
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:27,559
Speaker 3: the right decisions. They really do. But most people are

1720
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:28,360
Speaker 3: just not hearing that.

1721
01:29:29,200 --> 01:29:33,599
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, folks are so divorced from the natural world,

1722
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:36,880
Speaker 2: so distant from it, you know. I think the life

1723
01:29:36,920 --> 01:29:38,280
Speaker 2: that you live or the life that I live is

1724
01:29:38,280 --> 01:29:42,240
Speaker 2: pretty unique these days, and so it's easy just to

1725
01:29:42,240 --> 01:29:45,479
Speaker 2: to either never even think about these things, or if

1726
01:29:45,520 --> 01:29:47,400
Speaker 2: you do think about them ever once in a while,

1727
01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:51,439
Speaker 2: it's solely predicated on the one TikTok video you saw

1728
01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:56,200
Speaker 2: last week, or the one the sensationalist headline they got

1729
01:29:56,200 --> 01:29:59,120
Speaker 2: posted because of some crazy thing on Instagram or whatever. Right,

1730
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:02,519
Speaker 2: So a lot of this too, I think, also comes

1731
01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:05,320
Speaker 2: down to people just need to get out there and

1732
01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:09,560
Speaker 2: experience this stuff themselves and see what's out there and

1733
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:12,840
Speaker 2: fall in love with it for themselves, because I feel

1734
01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:17,040
Speaker 2: like oftentimes that is like the the initial barrier that

1735
01:30:17,080 --> 01:30:19,080
Speaker 2: has to be broken before you can ever get someone

1736
01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:21,760
Speaker 2: to really engage with this kind of these ideas in

1737
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:24,080
Speaker 2: a real way, or let alone get them to advocate

1738
01:30:24,200 --> 01:30:25,240
Speaker 2: in any kind of way. Right.

1739
01:30:25,560 --> 01:30:27,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a hard one because you know, we know

1740
01:30:27,479 --> 01:30:29,120
Speaker 3: that everybody's not going to be able to do that.

1741
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:31,559
Speaker 3: You know, we'd love that, you know, And I think,

1742
01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:34,280
Speaker 3: and here's this perfect segue to doing some self promotion

1743
01:30:34,400 --> 01:30:38,599
Speaker 3: but you know, me having my new YouTube channel, Endless Venture,

1744
01:30:39,280 --> 01:30:41,519
Speaker 3: you know, the only reason, you know, I can't keep

1745
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:43,400
Speaker 3: up with the kids these days. And everybody keeps saying

1746
01:30:43,439 --> 01:30:45,640
Speaker 3: that most eyes are on YouTube right now, you got

1747
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:48,280
Speaker 3: to go to YouTube. And ultimately, it's all I want

1748
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:50,960
Speaker 3: is the most eyes, you know. I want people to

1749
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:54,400
Speaker 3: be able to go on adventures out into these wild

1750
01:30:54,400 --> 01:30:56,280
Speaker 3: places and fall in love with it, even if it's

1751
01:30:56,360 --> 01:31:00,840
Speaker 3: vicariously through my storytelling, you know. And that is all

1752
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:03,560
Speaker 3: my Endless Venture is is just it's you know, animals

1753
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:06,639
Speaker 3: and finding cool stuff out there and just and giving

1754
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:09,120
Speaker 3: and doing it. And like I'm just taking how many

1755
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:12,240
Speaker 3: people are how many people are watching on a hike

1756
01:31:12,320 --> 01:31:16,479
Speaker 3: with me? Right? And if that if that initiates them

1757
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:18,840
Speaker 3: to get out and take a road trip to the

1758
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:22,559
Speaker 3: west and get out and walk around amazing. But even

1759
01:31:22,600 --> 01:31:25,040
Speaker 3: if it's just when they sit down and they're deciding

1760
01:31:25,040 --> 01:31:29,000
Speaker 3: who they're going to vote for, and it changes their

1761
01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:32,640
Speaker 3: mind a little bit about some policy that they're reading about, Uh,

1762
01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:36,679
Speaker 3: that's enough. I mean, that's that's big. So I think again,

1763
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:40,240
Speaker 3: it's just it's important. We gotta Yeah, that's that's the

1764
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:44,360
Speaker 3: responsibility that you and I collectively and everybody and meat

1765
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:47,479
Speaker 3: eater and everybody in National Geograph and everybody have we

1766
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:51,200
Speaker 3: have the responsibility of representing these things as truthfully and

1767
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:54,080
Speaker 3: as honestly and as purely as we can and hope

1768
01:31:54,120 --> 01:31:56,519
Speaker 3: that we get enough people to show up that we

1769
01:31:56,520 --> 01:32:00,000
Speaker 3: can change some minds in a big way. Yeah.

1770
01:32:00,120 --> 01:32:02,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's uh, that's certainly what gets me out of

1771
01:32:02,479 --> 01:32:05,639
Speaker 2: bed in the morning. And I got to say, when

1772
01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:07,640
Speaker 2: it comes to where, you know, connecting to where the

1773
01:32:07,680 --> 01:32:10,080
Speaker 2: kids are on YouTube, you're well on your way.

1774
01:32:10,479 --> 01:32:10,599
Speaker 4: Uh.

1775
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:15,600
Speaker 2: My seven year old son was very excited that you

1776
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:19,080
Speaker 2: had a collab, a crossover video with mister Coyote Peterson.

1777
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:23,160
Speaker 2: And when he saw that, he's like, Dad, I think

1778
01:32:23,240 --> 01:32:26,640
Speaker 2: Casey's the new YouTuber I need to follow. Yep, thank you.

1779
01:32:26,800 --> 01:32:29,280
Speaker 3: Right, that's good. That's big news. That's a big win

1780
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:31,920
Speaker 3: for me right there. So tell your seven year old he.

1781
01:32:31,880 --> 01:32:36,479
Speaker 2: Said, yeah, he's seven, so he's he's on it. And

1782
01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:39,280
Speaker 2: then he with that said he had he asked me,

1783
01:32:39,320 --> 01:32:42,559
Speaker 2: he said, I have to ask you, what is the

1784
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:46,839
Speaker 2: craziest thing about Coyote Peterson. We're spending time with Coyote

1785
01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:50,519
Speaker 2: Peterson and for folks who aren't familiar Uh, Coyote Peterson

1786
01:32:50,640 --> 01:32:55,840
Speaker 2: is like a more youth child, kind of focused YouTuber,

1787
01:32:56,680 --> 01:33:01,360
Speaker 2: all kind of nature outside activity, his wildlife kind of

1788
01:33:01,439 --> 01:33:07,120
Speaker 2: things that kids love, and my kids love him. He's

1789
01:33:07,160 --> 01:33:11,120
Speaker 2: pretty wild. So yes, so Everett, my son, Everett has

1790
01:33:11,200 --> 01:33:13,839
Speaker 2: to know, what's it like hanging out with Coyote Peterson.

1791
01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:16,519
Speaker 2: What's the craziest thing he did or does or anything

1792
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:16,880
Speaker 2: like that.

1793
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:22,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, Everett, Coyote is a He's one of the

1794
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:26,599
Speaker 3: nicest guys. I know, he's very you know, perfect example.

1795
01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:28,720
Speaker 3: I'll turn out to go too much onto this, but

1796
01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:30,360
Speaker 3: you know, he's a guy with a very open mind

1797
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:32,320
Speaker 3: and not a hunter, and him and I have talked

1798
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:35,439
Speaker 3: about hunting a bunch, you know, and he's interested. You know,

1799
01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:41,519
Speaker 3: he's listened. But back to Everett's question, Kyote is a

1800
01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:44,800
Speaker 3: bit of a superhuman. I don't know if it's because

1801
01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:48,040
Speaker 3: he's been stung and bitten and you know, has had

1802
01:33:48,080 --> 01:33:51,160
Speaker 3: so much poison into his blood that his body has

1803
01:33:51,200 --> 01:33:53,679
Speaker 3: built up some resilience. But like just the other day,

1804
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:56,040
Speaker 3: I went actually back east and visited him, and he

1805
01:33:56,160 --> 01:34:03,799
Speaker 3: like walked through this like worst of poison ivy. Everybody

1806
01:34:03,800 --> 01:34:07,639
Speaker 3: else he was involved got your typical reaction, no reaction

1807
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:13,280
Speaker 3: at all. He's tough. He's a tough guy, he really is.

1808
01:34:13,439 --> 01:34:15,960
Speaker 3: And uh yeah, you know, and in the end, you know,

1809
01:34:16,040 --> 01:34:19,559
Speaker 3: his his thing. You know, it's awesome that evert's watching

1810
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:21,960
Speaker 3: him because you know, Coyote does he does that. He's

1811
01:34:21,960 --> 01:34:24,479
Speaker 3: a showman. He's really good at producing his stuff. He

1812
01:34:24,479 --> 01:34:26,640
Speaker 3: has these big sensationalized things. I think a lot of

1813
01:34:26,680 --> 01:34:29,679
Speaker 3: adults would shake their head at, right. Yes, but as

1814
01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:32,439
Speaker 3: you dive in, you click the clickbait and you get

1815
01:34:32,479 --> 01:34:36,679
Speaker 3: in there. It's full of great conservation information. And he's

1816
01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:40,800
Speaker 3: got millions of people watching him because of that all

1817
01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:42,920
Speaker 3: the time. And again, these are people that are making

1818
01:34:42,920 --> 01:34:46,280
Speaker 3: good decisions down the line because they're learning through Coyote

1819
01:34:46,600 --> 01:34:48,320
Speaker 3: and even if they had to click the clickbait to

1820
01:34:48,320 --> 01:34:50,439
Speaker 3: get there, you know, and that's just it. You know,

1821
01:34:50,479 --> 01:34:54,200
Speaker 3: he's he's a smart fella. And again, and I'm having

1822
01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:57,000
Speaker 3: huge conversations with him, you know. In fact, I've had

1823
01:34:57,040 --> 01:34:59,640
Speaker 3: long conversations about the wolf issue. And he came in

1824
01:34:59,680 --> 01:35:02,680
Speaker 3: and where as you would a guy from Ohio has

1825
01:35:02,680 --> 01:35:06,320
Speaker 3: never been out here, and there's an animal advocate, you know,

1826
01:35:06,360 --> 01:35:08,519
Speaker 3: he's like, what's going on out there? He saw the

1827
01:35:08,520 --> 01:35:11,120
Speaker 3: guy run the wolf over in Wyoming and things that

1828
01:35:11,120 --> 01:35:12,880
Speaker 3: that's what we're all doing out here. He really did,

1829
01:35:13,560 --> 01:35:16,040
Speaker 3: you know, and I and I had an opportunity to sit

1830
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:18,120
Speaker 3: down and have a conversation with him. That's now wait

1831
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:20,360
Speaker 3: a minute, this is we're talking about a small people

1832
01:35:20,400 --> 01:35:25,360
Speaker 3: here anyway. Yeah, so Everett good guy. For sure. I'll

1833
01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:29,040
Speaker 3: tell Coyote that, yeah about Everett.

1834
01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:30,439
Speaker 2: And uh, he'll get a kick out of that.

1835
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:31,040
Speaker 3: He'll like it.

1836
01:35:31,200 --> 01:35:31,639
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1837
01:35:32,040 --> 01:35:34,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Everett my seven year old and Colt, my five

1838
01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:37,519
Speaker 2: year old, are are both big Coyote Peterson fans and

1839
01:35:37,800 --> 01:35:40,160
Speaker 2: uh and blooming Casey Anderson's.

1840
01:35:39,840 --> 01:35:43,400
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, so I won't disappoint. There's gonna this little

1841
01:35:43,400 --> 01:35:46,240
Speaker 3: secret that you can tell Colt and Everett. I got

1842
01:35:46,320 --> 01:35:49,240
Speaker 3: at least one or two more collapse with coyote coming home.

1843
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:50,679
Speaker 3: That's awesome.

1844
01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:54,599
Speaker 2: They'll be they'll be stoked. So so on that note, then, Casey, uh,

1845
01:35:54,640 --> 01:35:56,759
Speaker 2: you alluded to it a little bit. But give folks

1846
01:35:57,200 --> 01:36:00,840
Speaker 2: the full picture. What's what's Endless Venture all about? Where

1847
01:36:00,840 --> 01:36:03,400
Speaker 2: do they find this? What can they expect to see?

1848
01:36:04,439 --> 01:36:05,120
Speaker 2: Tell me all about it?

1849
01:36:05,439 --> 01:36:08,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, Endless Venture is just exactly kind of like the title.

1850
01:36:08,680 --> 01:36:13,080
Speaker 3: It is my endless ventures into the wild. So over

1851
01:36:13,120 --> 01:36:15,760
Speaker 3: the last fifty years of just being a kid in

1852
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:18,880
Speaker 3: the woods, right, and I've done it professionally, but I've

1853
01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:21,439
Speaker 3: always just been a kid in the woods, and so

1854
01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:23,720
Speaker 3: it's just going to be that more of that, you know,

1855
01:36:23,760 --> 01:36:25,760
Speaker 3: I've I've met so many cool people over the years.

1856
01:36:25,800 --> 01:36:28,080
Speaker 3: I go back and revisit stories that they've told me,

1857
01:36:28,120 --> 01:36:31,280
Speaker 3: and you know, I go, I'm just doing things like

1858
01:36:31,320 --> 01:36:32,680
Speaker 3: I wake up the morning and go, what do I

1859
01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:34,559
Speaker 3: want to go do that is going to be exciting,

1860
01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:36,479
Speaker 3: and I just make an episode about it. So that

1861
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:39,920
Speaker 3: can be anything from tracking man eating tigers in Nepal

1862
01:36:41,360 --> 01:36:44,080
Speaker 3: to seeing snow uppards for the first time in the Himalayas,

1863
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:47,639
Speaker 3: to stay and spending the night in a grizzly bear

1864
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:51,400
Speaker 3: den in the middle of winter. And the other thing

1865
01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:53,880
Speaker 3: is I'm a you know, as you know, like when

1866
01:36:53,880 --> 01:36:57,480
Speaker 3: you're out and about you see things like I'm fascinated

1867
01:36:57,479 --> 01:37:02,439
Speaker 3: with it with Native American history and artifacts. So if

1868
01:37:02,439 --> 01:37:04,479
Speaker 3: I find something like that, I'll deep dive into it,

1869
01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:08,040
Speaker 3: bring archaeologists, archaeologists in really try to learn more about it.

1870
01:37:08,600 --> 01:37:12,400
Speaker 3: I discovered a cave that's never been explored with a

1871
01:37:12,400 --> 01:37:14,120
Speaker 3: friend of mine that we were actually looking for mount

1872
01:37:14,160 --> 01:37:16,760
Speaker 3: lions with his hounds. We found this crazy cave in

1873
01:37:16,760 --> 01:37:20,599
Speaker 3: the middle of nowhere and now it's almost a mile

1874
01:37:20,720 --> 01:37:24,360
Speaker 3: of unmapped cave that we've found that we're totally documenting

1875
01:37:24,400 --> 01:37:28,000
Speaker 3: all this. So it's just, yeah, just being a I mean,

1876
01:37:28,080 --> 01:37:29,800
Speaker 3: something you can relate to. Everybody can relate to that

1877
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:32,880
Speaker 3: run around the woods, just me being my inner child

1878
01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:36,360
Speaker 3: in the wild. Anything everything cool, and I just try

1879
01:37:36,360 --> 01:37:38,280
Speaker 3: to but I try to expand on it and bring

1880
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:42,240
Speaker 3: an expert and teach more and tell the stories. But

1881
01:37:42,360 --> 01:37:46,639
Speaker 3: all the treasures man, not just wildlife everything. So yeah.

1882
01:37:46,720 --> 01:37:48,360
Speaker 3: The other thing like I like to throw out to

1883
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:53,680
Speaker 3: an audience like yours, is like legends and stories, like

1884
01:37:53,720 --> 01:37:56,000
Speaker 3: you know, I always hear from hunting stories like well,

1885
01:37:56,040 --> 01:37:57,640
Speaker 3: I was hunting elk and then I looked up and

1886
01:37:57,720 --> 01:38:00,160
Speaker 3: there was a cave in the rock face, and I

1887
01:38:00,160 --> 01:38:02,400
Speaker 3: always wish I could get up there. I saw these

1888
01:38:02,439 --> 01:38:05,800
Speaker 3: pictographs once and I never could find them again. I've

1889
01:38:05,800 --> 01:38:07,800
Speaker 3: revisited a lot of these stories people told me over

1890
01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:09,800
Speaker 3: the years, Like twenty years ago. Someone will tell me

1891
01:38:09,840 --> 01:38:11,479
Speaker 3: a story and we'll go back and try to find

1892
01:38:11,520 --> 01:38:13,960
Speaker 3: this very cool thing that they saw and sometimes we

1893
01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:16,720
Speaker 3: strike out, sometimes we find it. So if there's anybody

1894
01:38:16,800 --> 01:38:19,360
Speaker 3: with like really cool stories, or they've heard this crazy

1895
01:38:19,360 --> 01:38:21,599
Speaker 3: story from their uncle or their grandpa and they want

1896
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:23,920
Speaker 3: to go look for these legends or whatever, if there's

1897
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:26,479
Speaker 3: any ounce of truth that maybe we can find something

1898
01:38:26,600 --> 01:38:29,000
Speaker 3: very cool and like make this story come to life,

1899
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:31,800
Speaker 3: let me know. That's exactly the kind of stuff I'm

1900
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:32,240
Speaker 3: looking for.

1901
01:38:33,040 --> 01:38:36,920
Speaker 2: That's cool, It's got to be. I'm making some assumptions here,

1902
01:38:36,960 --> 01:38:39,840
Speaker 2: but I guess I should ask as a question, is

1903
01:38:39,880 --> 01:38:44,240
Speaker 2: it has it been freeing to be developing film for

1904
01:38:44,320 --> 01:38:47,000
Speaker 2: YouTube in this kind of way that's probably with fewer

1905
01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:52,280
Speaker 2: guardrails and restraints than maybe producing something for network television, Right?

1906
01:38:52,439 --> 01:38:53,080
Speaker 2: Is that pretty fuch?

1907
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:55,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, definitely trying to navigate the madness of

1908
01:38:55,960 --> 01:38:58,320
Speaker 3: networks and streamers and all that and what they might

1909
01:38:58,360 --> 01:39:03,360
Speaker 3: want and whatever. It's such a hard that's a hard animal, man.

1910
01:39:03,439 --> 01:39:08,360
Speaker 3: It's like that, you can't unpredictable. Yeah, Now complete creative control,

1911
01:39:09,320 --> 01:39:11,080
Speaker 3: can go do what I want. And I think at

1912
01:39:11,120 --> 01:39:15,080
Speaker 3: some level that freedom comes out in me. And I

1913
01:39:15,080 --> 01:39:17,719
Speaker 3: think people just love watching people be excited about something

1914
01:39:17,720 --> 01:39:20,880
Speaker 3: and passionate about something, and because of that freedom I'm

1915
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:23,479
Speaker 3: probably more passionate and excited. I've heard people give me

1916
01:39:23,479 --> 01:39:26,160
Speaker 3: feedback on this too that they think so I'd just

1917
01:39:26,280 --> 01:39:30,719
Speaker 3: been more natural and more into my element than ever. Yeah,

1918
01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:32,719
Speaker 3: you know, I'm an old guy. I'm gonna turn fifty

1919
01:39:32,760 --> 01:39:35,600
Speaker 3: this year. I've got a lot of a lot of

1920
01:39:35,640 --> 01:39:39,360
Speaker 3: experience and a lot of cool stories and friends and stuff.

1921
01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:41,720
Speaker 3: So i'm's gonna just bring it all, like bring it

1922
01:39:41,760 --> 01:39:43,559
Speaker 3: to life. But I don't feel like an old guy

1923
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:46,599
Speaker 3: when I'm out there right checking out all this cool stuff.

1924
01:39:47,280 --> 01:39:49,719
Speaker 2: That's the scary thing is that I don't feel old either.

1925
01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:52,280
Speaker 2: But I'm knocking on forty's door and that sounds really

1926
01:39:52,320 --> 01:39:54,559
Speaker 2: old to me. And I'm realizing, like, oh my gosh,

1927
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:56,679
Speaker 2: I'm gonna blink and I'm gonna be fifty, I'm gonna blink,

1928
01:39:56,680 --> 01:39:59,400
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be sixty. And so I better do everything

1929
01:39:59,439 --> 01:40:01,640
Speaker 2: I can very single day and just soak it all

1930
01:40:01,720 --> 01:40:04,200
Speaker 2: up right, because it goes it goes fast, and it goes.

1931
01:40:04,040 --> 01:40:06,280
Speaker 3: Fast, and things are changing. So you never know when

1932
01:40:06,320 --> 01:40:08,599
Speaker 3: you go to your favorite place again and it's not there,

1933
01:40:09,880 --> 01:40:13,200
Speaker 3: and that's that's the scary thing. But yeah, it's I think, uh,

1934
01:40:13,400 --> 01:40:16,000
Speaker 3: endless venture. So yeah, please go check it out and subscribe,

1935
01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:17,400
Speaker 3: because that's the only one I get to do it.

1936
01:40:18,520 --> 01:40:21,320
Speaker 3: And I think, again, it's maybe for a little bit

1937
01:40:21,360 --> 01:40:23,200
Speaker 3: more of a mature audience, but I think kids definitely

1938
01:40:23,240 --> 01:40:26,280
Speaker 3: could watch it, and I'm glad to hear that they are.

1939
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:29,680
Speaker 3: But I certainly think that a lot of folks in

1940
01:40:29,720 --> 01:40:32,240
Speaker 3: this demographic that listen to your podcast would probably really

1941
01:40:32,240 --> 01:40:36,320
Speaker 3: dig it because they could relate to it, because most

1942
01:40:36,360 --> 01:40:38,400
Speaker 3: of us are just that's the words run around the

1943
01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:41,599
Speaker 3: woods catching frogs in some way, shape or form, right.

1944
01:40:42,280 --> 01:40:44,360
Speaker 2: Just the adult version of it now, and sometimes I

1945
01:40:44,400 --> 01:40:47,839
Speaker 2: still do the child version of it. Yeah or but

1946
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:50,519
Speaker 2: but yeah, I've watched a bunch of the new videos,

1947
01:40:51,760 --> 01:40:54,599
Speaker 2: the ones up in cat My, the stuff with Coyote.

1948
01:40:55,880 --> 01:40:58,880
Speaker 2: I liked your viral video court, you know, Sunday Morning

1949
01:40:58,920 --> 01:41:02,679
Speaker 2: or Monday Morning Quarterback. That was great. So yeah, it's

1950
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:04,840
Speaker 2: great stuff. I've watched a lot of the previous network

1951
01:41:04,840 --> 01:41:07,839
Speaker 2: television stuff that of course is great. So I'm excited

1952
01:41:07,840 --> 01:41:11,120
Speaker 2: for you, excited for this new project. And yes, at

1953
01:41:11,240 --> 01:41:14,000
Speaker 2: least in this sample size of three, a thirty eight

1954
01:41:14,080 --> 01:41:16,360
Speaker 2: year old, a thirty seven year old, a seven year old,

1955
01:41:16,400 --> 01:41:19,160
Speaker 2: and a five year old, you have people who like

1956
01:41:19,240 --> 01:41:22,519
Speaker 2: the content across that entire age range. So you're doing well.

1957
01:41:22,560 --> 01:41:24,599
Speaker 3: That's awesome. Thank you appreciate it.

1958
01:41:25,640 --> 01:41:29,000
Speaker 2: So endless venture on YouTube anywhere else that people should go.

1959
01:41:29,120 --> 01:41:32,160
Speaker 2: Instagram handle, any website or anything you want people to

1960
01:41:32,200 --> 01:41:32,720
Speaker 2: go check out.

1961
01:41:33,120 --> 01:41:35,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Instagram. And I'm still on old school

1962
01:41:35,520 --> 01:41:39,280
Speaker 3: Facebook because that's old school now. But Grizzly Guy is

1963
01:41:39,320 --> 01:41:42,760
Speaker 3: the handle. Yeah, just go check it out. I mean,

1964
01:41:43,200 --> 01:41:46,679
Speaker 3: I'm updating that stuff constantly too. Again, I do feel

1965
01:41:46,760 --> 01:41:50,639
Speaker 3: like it's the way people can experience the wild without

1966
01:41:50,640 --> 01:41:52,360
Speaker 3: being in the wild, and I find a lot of

1967
01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:55,560
Speaker 3: responsibility in that. And I mean anything, I try to

1968
01:41:55,560 --> 01:41:57,160
Speaker 3: post stuff up on there, and I try to at

1969
01:41:57,240 --> 01:42:01,040
Speaker 3: least make it where you can learn something too along

1970
01:42:01,080 --> 01:42:03,679
Speaker 3: the way. And you know, I'm always learning. I've had

1971
01:42:03,960 --> 01:42:07,000
Speaker 3: even the day I just posted a crazy thing about

1972
01:42:07,640 --> 01:42:10,360
Speaker 3: hundred guys versus gorilla because I saw that not a gorilla,

1973
01:42:10,439 --> 01:42:12,439
Speaker 3: Grizzly because I saw the gorilla thing going around for

1974
01:42:12,439 --> 01:42:16,519
Speaker 3: a while. Yeah. I love I love the debates and

1975
01:42:16,560 --> 01:42:19,160
Speaker 3: the craziness of it all. And but in the end,

1976
01:42:19,360 --> 01:42:21,400
Speaker 3: you know, I threw some real facts out there, and

1977
01:42:21,439 --> 01:42:24,759
Speaker 3: I just want to get people thinking about nature. Right,

1978
01:42:25,479 --> 01:42:27,920
Speaker 3: And that's one thing you can count on. If you

1979
01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:30,120
Speaker 3: click on any of my socials or YouTube, you're going

1980
01:42:30,160 --> 01:42:32,160
Speaker 3: to be thinking about nature. And I think that we

1981
01:42:32,200 --> 01:42:33,519
Speaker 3: all got to do that a little bit more.

1982
01:42:33,560 --> 01:42:38,200
Speaker 2: No matter what, man, no truer words could be spoken

1983
01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:40,599
Speaker 2: in that Casey and I think that's probably a good

1984
01:42:40,600 --> 01:42:42,920
Speaker 2: place for us to wrap it up. So I've loved this.

1985
01:42:43,080 --> 01:42:44,280
Speaker 2: I've really enjoyed this chat.

1986
01:42:44,439 --> 01:42:46,479
Speaker 3: Thank you, Oh, thank you. I've loved it too. One

1987
01:42:46,520 --> 01:42:51,120
Speaker 3: of one of the best ever, all.

1988
01:42:51,080 --> 01:42:53,360
Speaker 2: Right, And that's a wrap. I appreciate you tuning in.

1989
01:42:53,560 --> 01:42:55,559
Speaker 2: Hopefully you enjoyed this one as much as I did.

1990
01:42:55,920 --> 01:42:58,920
Speaker 2: I could have chatted with Casey for a couple more hours.

1991
01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:01,160
Speaker 2: There's there's so much to cover on this one, so

1992
01:43:02,160 --> 01:43:04,559
Speaker 2: many interesting stories of his that we did not get into.

1993
01:43:04,640 --> 01:43:07,240
Speaker 2: We probably need to have another chat with Casey just

1994
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:10,040
Speaker 2: to hear his stories, because he's done so much wild,

1995
01:43:10,080 --> 01:43:12,479
Speaker 2: crazy stuff that would just be fun to hear about.

1996
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:16,080
Speaker 2: That probably needs to be on the schedule down the line.

1997
01:43:16,080 --> 01:43:19,080
Speaker 2: But today it was kind of a deep, kind of

1998
01:43:19,240 --> 01:43:25,040
Speaker 2: sink your teeth into it discussion of carnivores and hunters

1999
01:43:25,120 --> 01:43:27,320
Speaker 2: and how we can maybe get along into the future

2000
01:43:27,320 --> 01:43:28,760
Speaker 2: and make sure that all the things that we need

2001
01:43:28,760 --> 01:43:31,639
Speaker 2: and care about exist twenty years from now, forty years

2002
01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:34,400
Speaker 2: from now, fifty years from now. So I hope, in

2003
01:43:34,439 --> 01:43:37,040
Speaker 2: some small way we're able to address some of that,

2004
01:43:37,439 --> 01:43:39,920
Speaker 2: and I appreciate you sticking around here to tune in, So,

2005
01:43:40,200 --> 01:43:44,759
Speaker 2: without further ado, thank you, and stay wired to hunt