1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stef I Never Told You, a production 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio, and welcome to another edition of book Club. 4 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 2: Quick content warning for this one, we are going to 5 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 2: be briefly not in death, but briefly discussing things around 6 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 2: like eating disorders, unhealthy thoughts about weight, discussion around sexual assault, 7 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 2: sexual harassment, and mental health. Honestly, yeah, we're not really 8 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: going to be going too deep into these unless the 9 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 2: conversation takes us that way, which it sometimes does. But like, 10 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 2: if you're going to go read the book, nope, so yes, 11 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 2: today we are reading the international bestseller by Cho Nam 12 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 2: Jew translated by Jamie Chang Kim Jong born nineteen eighty two. 13 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: A novel, It was published in sixteen, and it follows 14 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 2: Kim Jeong's a life as a woman in South Korea 15 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: through schooling, college, family, jobs, marriage, having kids. Although there 16 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 2: is a lot of thoughts around not having kids in 17 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 2: all of the intersections that come with all of that 18 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 2: as a woman, it is both very personal and filled 19 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 2: with a lot of facts and statistics. It's like her life, 20 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: but also showcasing the broader strokes of what she's going 21 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: through in. 22 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: Her life right. 23 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 3: Yes. 24 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 2: It begins with the main character experiencing a mental health 25 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 2: issue where she seemingly is impersonating other women, her mother 26 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: and grandmother, specifically, Her worried husband takes her to get 27 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: psychiatric help, and then from there the story steps back 28 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: to certain stages of Kim Jiong's life, her experience being 29 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 2: a second daughter of a family of three kids, the 30 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: youngest one being a son in a society that has 31 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 2: preference for sons. It details her experience as a child, 32 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 2: a student, a wife, her college experience, her career. She's 33 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: pressured to leave work by her husband to have a kid, 34 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 2: a son, and he promises he'll help out, but she's 35 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 2: in her mind his helping out is like things he 36 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 2: should have already been doing. She has a difficult birth 37 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 2: to a daughter and leaves work entirely to be a housewife, 38 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 2: something else she faces judgment for and people criticize her 39 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: for doing, basically calling her freeloader. And that's when her 40 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: mental health symptoms starts showing up. And Chunam juw took 41 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 2: two months to write the story, and she said she 42 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 2: was able to do it so quickly because the main 43 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 2: character's life was close to hers. The book has sold 44 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 2: more than one million copies as of November twenty eighteen, 45 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 2: making it the first million selling Korean novel since two 46 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 2: thousand and nine. And it was part of the feminist 47 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 2: movement in South Korea, including the Me Too movement there, 48 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 2: the four B movement which we've talked about, Escape the Corset. 49 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: It's been used as an example of a growing desire 50 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: to discuss gender roles in the country among a certain 51 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: group anyway, and a movie adaption came out in twenty nineteen. 52 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 2: But you're also telling me that it was part of 53 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: a big backlash, anti feminist backlash as well. 54 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 3: So yeah, just as a reminder, this came out in 55 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 3: twenty sixteen. As we talked about in our previous episodes 56 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 3: about feminism in South Korea, the current administration actually took 57 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 3: out Women's Equality Task Force, which is actually talked about 58 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 3: in the book as it was developed, So there's a 59 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 3: bit of backtracking in the government and that there's a 60 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,839 Speaker 3: big anti feminist movement since then. We also talked about 61 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 3: the double standards when this book came out, when celebrities, 62 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 3: Korean celebrities were for this or speaking up about this 63 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 3: or loving this typically, if you were a woman who 64 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 3: loved the book, you were seen as being too feminists, 65 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 3: and people would rip the pictures up and be very 66 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 3: angry and talking about how they were ruining society. But 67 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 3: if a man liked it, they were upstanding, good men. 68 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 3: Look at them, how kind they are, They're heroes type 69 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 3: of thing. It was really interesting. It's no different today. Yeah. 70 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 3: The movie came out in twenty nineteen with My Boy 71 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 3: Gong You. I haven't watched it yet because it's too sad. 72 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 3: I can't handle a lot of kan stuff right now. 73 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 3: It's already hard. But yeah, there's a lot of conversation 74 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 3: around it. It did push a lot of feminist movements, 75 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 3: a lot of conversation, a lot of opening of the eyes. 76 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 3: But again, it also started up a lot of anti 77 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,239 Speaker 3: feminist rhetoric talking about how women were taking men's jobs. 78 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 3: It's been a pivotal point for the current administration as 79 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 3: this platform to get more votes from the anti feminist 80 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 3: group of people. 81 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. 82 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 3: Interesting, it's sad. 83 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And there's been a lot discussion happening around this, 84 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 2: this book and the movie specifically, and the role it 85 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 2: played in all of that stuff. 86 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: So it is really interesting if you want to look 87 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: up more. 88 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 2: And one of the biggest things throughout this the book 89 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: is tracing gender roles in certain stages of life. Yeah, 90 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 2: so let us get into some of these themes, right. 91 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 3: So when Kim Giong was born, Omisok held the input 92 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 3: in her arms and wept because there was a girl saying, 93 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 3: I'm sorry the little girls, she said, hanging her head. 94 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 3: Coban soon repeated warmly to her daughter in law, It's okay, 95 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 3: the third will be a boy. Of course, if you're 96 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 3: at all familiar with any type of Korean history and 97 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 3: types and it actually I guess it's Asian history, and 98 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 3: in general when it comes to children, overpopulation and what 99 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 3: gender is preferred. You have a big conversation about female babies, 100 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 3: little girls being discarded because there's too many. Whether it's 101 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 3: through abortion or whether it's through adoption, or whether it's 102 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 3: just neglect. There's a lot of really sad history. We 103 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 3: know with a one child policy, which was not necessarily 104 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 3: a part of Korea. It was more so in China. 105 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 3: But that's the mindset did happen in Korea because the 106 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 3: men are more likely to care for all the following 107 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 3: things and be able to take care of the entire 108 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 3: entire group of family and community. So yeah, there was 109 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 3: a lot of that conversation for the longest time, which 110 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 3: is actually not true. I found this out. For the 111 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 3: longest time, a lot of the orphanages were thought to 112 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 3: be filled with mainly young girls, but it seemed that 113 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 3: there was a lot of young boys that were adopted 114 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 3: from Korea more so than girls at one point in time. 115 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 3: So very confusing. There's a lot of eugenics on that side, 116 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 3: but we're not going to talk about that quite yet. 117 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 3: But yeah, the obvious conversation is you want a boy, 118 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 3: the blessing is the boy. Boys will always do more 119 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 3: boys are taken care of, boys are coddled. This is 120 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 3: that idea. The book goes on. This was the time 121 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 3: when the government had implemented birth control policies called family 122 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 3: planning to keep population growth under control. Abortion due to 123 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,239 Speaker 3: medical problems had been legal for ten years at that point, 124 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 3: and checking the sex of the fetus and aborting females 125 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 3: was a common practice, as if daughters was a medical problem. 126 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 3: This went on through the nineteen eighties and in the 127 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 3: early nineteen nineties, the very height of the male to 128 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,239 Speaker 3: female ratio imbalance when the ratio of the third child 129 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 3: and beyond was over two to one. Yeah, so, as 130 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 3: I'm explaining, the desire to have young boys was much higher. 131 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 3: You were prized much more so than girls. 132 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 2: Right, And the author gives a lot of examples of 133 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 2: that throughout the book. Here's a quote. It was a 134 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: given that fresh rice hot at the cooker was served 135 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 2: in the order of father, brother, and grandmother. That perfect 136 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 2: pieces of tofuo dumplings and patties were the brothers. All 137 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 2: the girls ate the ones that fell apart. The brother 138 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 2: had chopsticks, socks, long underwear, and school and lunchbags that matched. 139 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: All the girls may do with whatever was available. If 140 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 2: there were two umbrellas, the girls shared. If there were 141 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 2: two blankets, the girl shared. If there were two treats, 142 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 2: the girls shared. It didn't occur to the child you young, 143 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 2: that her brother was receiving special treatment, and so she 144 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 2: wasn't even jealous. 145 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 3: We actually saw an example of this in a Strong 146 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 3: woman Bondsoon. If you remember when she uh cries to 147 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 3: her mother because she's always like, let your brother have it. 148 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 3: Give this to your brother. You're writing away from your brother, 149 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 3: and she finally had enough, She's like, why is it 150 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 3: always him? And actually there's a lot of theme to 151 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 3: that in different K dramas where young women are actually 152 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 3: starting to stand up for themselves, like why is it 153 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 3: him over me? Like what makes him more important than me? 154 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 3: So it's very very interesting. 155 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and she has a couple a lot of 156 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: times the quotes in these book clubs get unwieldy because 157 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 2: I just want to quote. 158 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: The whole book, you know. 159 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 2: And there was another quote that I had in here 160 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: that I got rid of that was kind of to 161 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: that point. If the older sister being like, you need 162 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 2: to eat, moms, stop giving your noodles to him, Like 163 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 2: stop doing this, We're all going to eat our own portions, 164 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: and it essentially devolving into like an argument of like, 165 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 2: well he's the youngest, the mom says, and the older 166 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: sister is like, no, he's the boy. 167 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. 168 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 2: So there were a lot of examples of that through 169 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: throughout the book. But there were a lot of examples 170 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 2: of what you were talking about, of sort of girls 171 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 2: and women questioning these things. And there was one story 172 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 2: where while Gejung was in school, there was this thing 173 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 2: where a bunch of the girls weren't be they didn't 174 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 2: have time to eat because they served food in order 175 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 2: of like boys first, girls second, but there was an 176 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: allotted time for eating, and so like the girls didn't 177 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 2: have as much time to eat, and them questioning that 178 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 2: and protesting that. So here's a quote around that number 179 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: one on the roster was a boy. Everything began with 180 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 2: the boys, and that felt like the right natural thing. 181 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 2: Boys lined up first, Boys led every procession, no matter 182 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 2: where they were headed. Boys gave their presentations first, and 183 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 2: boys had their homework checked first, while the girls quietly 184 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 2: waited their turn board, sometimes relieved that they weren't going first, 185 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: but never thinking this was a strange practice, just as 186 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 2: we never question why men's National Registry numbers begin with 187 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 2: a one and women's begin with a two. And then 188 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 2: I liked this quote. Teachers were in the habit of 189 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 2: saying that girls are smarter. Students also thought that girls 190 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 2: were smarter, more mature, and better with detailed work, but 191 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 2: they somehow always elected boys to be class monitors. 192 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can relate to this. 193 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 3: Right, here's a thing like I've read so many reviews 194 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 3: and I want to keep talking about it, about how 195 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 3: all wow, Korea does this and all Korea is so 196 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 3: sad and doesn't like the US isn't that far behind. No, 197 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 3: there's not a thing. There's an extreme and there's a 198 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 3: level of violence that have happened in South Korea that's 199 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 3: not looked down on today, which is really really sad. 200 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 3: But it's just quiet here, Like it's just quietly said 201 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,839 Speaker 3: here or and or ignored and like calm down. It 202 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 3: is no different, it's just less seen or less talked about. 203 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 3: Oh and we have a whole conversation about periods. And 204 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 3: I appreciated the conversation in this because I'm like, yeah, 205 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 3: I get this. So as Giong lay on her stomach 206 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 3: on the floor to do homework, she clutched her her 207 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 3: tramping lower abdomen and repeated to herself, I don't understand. 208 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 3: Half the population in the world goes through this every month. 209 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 3: If a pharmaceutical company were to develop an effective pill 210 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 3: specifically for menstrual cramps, not the quote pain medication that 211 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 3: makes you sick, they would make a fortune. Her sister 212 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 3: filled a plastic bottle with hot water, wrapped in a 213 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 3: towel and passed it to her. You're right in a 214 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 3: world where doctors can cure cancer and do heart transplant. 215 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 3: There isn't a single pill to treat menstrual cramps, her 216 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 3: sister pointed at her own stomach. The world wants our 217 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,599 Speaker 3: urits to be drug free, like sacred grounds in a 218 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 3: virgin forest. Yeah, I don't think about that. We talk 219 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 3: about that on so many levels, about birth control pills 220 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 3: and how ineffective and or real dangerous it is, but 221 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 3: no one really cares. 222 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: Right really, and I care. 223 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 2: I like legitimately had this almost this exact same conversation 224 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: with a friend of mine where she was like, I 225 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 2: don't get why half of us just are expected to 226 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 2: just do this, like deal with this on a regular 227 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 2: basis and still perform and not like take a break break. 228 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 3: No, everybody feels shame if we like don't ourselves and yeah, like, 229 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 3: oh no, I'm like, what the hell this is? This 230 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 3: is the world's fault. You should all take the blame. 231 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 232 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 3: Sorry, So going on talking about school as the next thing, 233 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 3: which is a big theme and kind of like triggering 234 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 3: a little bit for me. Uh So, here's a quote. 235 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 3: The school dress code was strict expect for girls. One time, 236 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 3: a female student who was held up at the school 237 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 3: gate for wearing sneakers. Protested it was unfair to allow 238 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 3: t shirts and sneakers to mail students only. The student 239 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 3: discipline teacher explained that it was because boys were more 240 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 3: physically active. Quote boys kids sit still for ten minutes 241 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 3: between classes. They ran outside to play soccer, basketball, baseball, 242 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 3: or even a mucktubucky. You can't expect kids like that 243 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 3: to button their shirts all the way to the top 244 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 3: and wear dress shoes. And you think girls don't play 245 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 3: sports because they don't want to. We can't play because 246 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 3: it's uncomfortable to play wearing skirts, tights, and dress shoes. 247 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 3: When I was in elementary school, I went outside every 248 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 3: break to play red rover, hopscotch and skip rope. And 249 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 3: as a punishment for the dress code violation and backtalk, 250 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 3: the female student had to do laps of squat walk 251 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 3: around the school field. The teacher told her to hold 252 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 3: the hymn of her skirt together, so it was thought 253 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 3: to reveal her underwear, but the girl refused. Her underwear 254 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 3: showed each time she took a step in a squat position. 255 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 3: The teacher stopped her after one lap. Another student called 256 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 3: down to the teacher office for dress code violation. Asked 257 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 3: her why she didn't hold her hemp together, and she said, 258 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 3: I wanted the teacher to see with his own eyes 259 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 3: just how uncomfortable this outfit is. And again, this is 260 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 3: very familiar to what is happening today in the US, 261 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,719 Speaker 3: not the squatting part, but the dress code. 262 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and oh yeah, I mean we talked about 263 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 2: that in like our sports episodes, or about the uniforms 264 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: required for women. 265 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: In professional sporting events. 266 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 2: As opposed to men. Here's another quote. It was a 267 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 2: wide world out there, filled with perverts on the bus 268 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 2: and underground. Many suspicious hands grazed her bottom and breast. 269 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 2: Some crazy bastards rubed themselves up against women's thighs and backs. 270 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 2: The girls were disgusted by older boys at Cram School, 271 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 2: church and tutoring sessions, pawing their shoulders, stroking their naps, 272 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 2: and sneaking a peek at their breast through button down 273 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 2: shirts and T shirts with low cut netlines. But the 274 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 2: girls couldn't let out a single horrified cry. All they 275 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 2: could do was remove themselves from the scene. School was 276 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 2: no better. There were always male teachers who reached up 277 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 2: and pinched the soft flesh of the underarm, padded students 278 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 2: on the bottom, or ran their hands down the spine 279 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 2: over the bra strap. Her tenth grade homeroom teacher was 280 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 2: a man in his fifties who carried around a pointer 281 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 2: that had a hand pointing just the index figure on 282 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 2: the tip, which he used to poke girls in the 283 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 2: breast under the guy's drawing attention to the missing name tags, 284 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 2: or to lift girl's skirts to quote check their uniforms. 285 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 2: When he left the stick on the podium by mistake 286 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 2: one day after morning announcements, one classmate with heavy breast, 287 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 2: whose name tag the teacher often checked, marched to the front, 288 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 2: threw the stick on the floor and trampled on it 289 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 2: over and over as she wailed. The girls near the 290 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 2: front quickly picked up the broken pieces and got rid 291 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 2: of them, and her best friend hugged her and comforted her. Yeah, yep, yep, 292 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 2: I had a teacher like that too. We all knew 293 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 2: about him. And then there's a whole story that she 294 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: tells about this guy who's following her on a bus 295 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 2: and he's threatening her, and he kind of is like, well, 296 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 2: you're always smiling at me, And then when she finally 297 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 2: kind of gets away from him, and with the help 298 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 2: of a woman who notices, like, oh, of what she's 299 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 2: going through. Her father kind of yells at her for 300 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 2: wearing short skirts. Fur a quote talking to people, which 301 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 2: also feels very familiar. Yes, but here's some quotes around that. 302 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 2: G Young felt she should thank her and called her again. 303 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 2: The woman said she was glad you Young was fine, 304 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 2: and suddenly declared, it's not your fault. There were far 305 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 2: too many crazy men in the world. She'd had her 306 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 2: share run ins with these people, and the problem was 307 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: with them, not with the women. Hearing this made Young cry, 308 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 2: trying to swallow her tears. She couldn't say anything back. 309 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 2: And then it continues. G Young quit the cram school 310 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 2: for a long time. She couldn't go near a bus 311 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 2: stop after dark. She stopped smiling at people and did 312 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 2: not make eye contact with strangers. She was afraid of 313 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 2: all men, and she screamed sometimes when she ran into 314 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 2: her younger brother in the stairwell. But she kept thinking 315 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 2: about what the woman said, not my fault. There's far 316 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 2: more great guys out there. If the woman hadn't said 317 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 2: that to her, g Young would have lived in fear 318 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 2: for even longer. 319 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: It's kind of one of. 320 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 2: Those things where it's like so sad that she quit 321 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 2: and she felt all of these things because we do 322 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 2: see that, we see women being forced out of things 323 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 2: so often and quitting because of things like this. But 324 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 2: it's also nice that she had this woman saying like, no, 325 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 2: it's not your fault, and that those words meant so much. Yeah, 326 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 2: but unfortunately this is not the last of that type 327 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 2: of treatment you young would experience. So now we're moving 328 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 2: kind of the like jobs and careers section. So here's 329 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 2: a quote. Gone were the days when parents thought girls 330 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 2: didn't have to get good grades or receive the same 331 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 2: education as boys. It had long since been the norm 332 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 2: for girls, like boys, to put on a uniform, carry 333 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 2: a backpack, and attend school. Girls thought about what they 334 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 2: would like to do when they grew up, just as 335 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 2: boys did. They planned their careers and competed to achieve 336 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 2: their goals. This was a time of widespread social support 337 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: for women's ambitions. In nineteen ninety nine, the year Kim 338 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 2: and Young turned twenty, new legislation against gender discrimination was introduced, 339 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,719 Speaker 2: and in two thousand and one, the year Kim geeoung 340 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 2: turned twenty, the Ministry of Gender Equality was formed, but 341 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 2: in certain pivotal moments in women's lives, the woman stigma 342 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: reared its head to obscure their vision, stay their hands, 343 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 2: and hold them back. The mixed signals were confusing and disconcerting. Yeah, 344 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 2: it was kind of like what you were talking about 345 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 2: with all kind of the back yeah. 346 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, and unfortunately they're on the back. Yeah. And then 347 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 3: we have this conversation where she is listening in on 348 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 3: what men talk about when women are around kind of yeah. 349 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 3: So here it is ew, that's like chewing gum. Someone 350 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 3: else spit out set of familiar voice. It was an 351 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 3: older member of the club who enjoyed drinking but didn't 352 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 3: force others to do so, and often bought the younger 353 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 3: members food, but avoided eating with them unless they felt uncomfortable. 354 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 3: She'd also had a good opinion of his level headed, 355 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 3: practical way of handling things. Gian couldn't believe her ears. 356 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 3: She listened harder, but couldn't deny that it was him. 357 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 3: He could have been drunk, or perhaps he had said 358 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 3: what he said to overcompensate for being found out about 359 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 3: his feelings for her, and had to say something harsh 360 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 3: to discourage the guys from playing matchmaker. She thought of 361 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 3: many possibilities, none of which helped to make her feel 362 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 3: less devastated. Even the usually reasonable, sane ones verbally degrade women, 363 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 3: even the women they had feelings for. That's what I am, gum, 364 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 3: someone spat out. 365 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty brutal because they kind of like had 366 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 2: a good relationship. And she overheard this, and then the 367 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 2: next day the guy is all like, oh no, I'm 368 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 2: still nice. I'm still the good guy and being nice 369 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 2: to her. But after she'd heard this, this. 370 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: So it was. It was pretty It was a tough scene. 371 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, here's another one. Sometimes when she was exhausted, she 372 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 3: felt like giving up. And John's cliched wards of encouragement 373 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 3: once you get to college you will lose weight and 374 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 3: get a boyfriend truly inspired her because on young actually 375 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 3: did lose weight and get a boyfriend in college. 376 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, this was a pretty big theme. 377 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 2: Uh, and we're not going to talk about it too much, 378 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 2: but that was that was pretty prevalent throughout Here's another quote. 379 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 2: She had looked around the office one day and realized 380 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 2: that there were no women above a certain pay grade. 381 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,360 Speaker 2: She spotted a pregnant woman in the company dining hall 382 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 2: and asked the people at her table how long the 383 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 2: company's maternity leave was, and none of the five, including 384 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 2: one department head, knew the answer because none of them 385 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 2: had ever seen an employee go on maternity leave. She 386 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 2: couldn't picture herself at the company ten years down the 387 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 2: road and resigned. After some thought. Her boss grumbled, this 388 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 2: is why we don't hire women. She replied, Women don't 389 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 2: stay because you make it impossible for us to stay. Yeah, 390 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 2: which is again something we see and talk. 391 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: About to this day. 392 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 2: Yep. There was another scene kind of earlier in the 393 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 2: university where Geong went to a career fair and there 394 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 2: were no women, hardly any women there. 395 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 3: Because they never came back. 396 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 2: Right, yep, Here is another quote of sort of like 397 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 2: a really poor like what is that called where we 398 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 2: have to do those human resources meetings? Yeah, yeah, all right, 399 00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 2: you're at a meeting with a client company. The client 400 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 2: it's you know, hansy squeezing your shoulder, grazing your thigh, 401 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Yeah, how you handle that situation? 402 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 2: Let's start with missus Kim Gyong. Geong didn't want to 403 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 2: panic like an idiot or lose points by being too firm, 404 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 2: so she shot for the middle. I'll find a natural 405 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 2: way to leave the room, like going to the toilet 406 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 2: or getting research data. The second interviewee asserted that it 407 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 2: was clearly sexual harassment and that she would tell him 408 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 2: to stop right away. If he didn't, she would press charges. 409 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 2: The mail trustee raised an eyebrow and wrote something down, 410 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 2: which made Gijong flinch. I would check my outfit and 411 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 2: attitudes at the final interviewee, who had the longest to 412 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 2: think of an answer, to see if there were any 413 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 2: problems with it and fix anything that may have induced 414 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 2: the inappropriate behavior in the client. 415 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: And then. 416 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 2: Later I would break his arm. Geong shouted later at 417 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 2: the mirror, and you your question is sexual harassment, and 418 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 2: to ask that during a job interview, would you ask 419 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: the same question to male candidates? 420 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, mm hmm. Yeah. 421 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 2: And there's a lot of discussion too around like cameras 422 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 2: and women's rooms. 423 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 3: Which is actually a big problem right now in South Korea. 424 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and posting those on those images on pornography sites 425 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 2: and blaming women for reporting it, for quote, turning the 426 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 2: men into predators. Being told to old ruin the company 427 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 2: ruined men's lives, which again, unfortunately sounds very familiar, but 428 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 2: that's sort of the same thing. It's like it's constantly 429 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,719 Speaker 2: turning it on the women, like you're ruining his life 430 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 2: for the thing he did to you. Don't embarrass the company, 431 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 2: like all those sort of sort of conversations. 432 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a whole thing, and it keeps going with 433 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 3: When she meets up with clients, the division head, newly 434 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 3: appointed just three months before after climbing the ladder in 435 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 3: the product development division, gave her an unstoppable flu of 436 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 3: advice coming from experience, including backhanded compliments like you have 437 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 3: a nice jaw line and attractive nose. Just get your 438 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 3: eyelids done in your golden He asked if she had 439 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 3: a boyfriend and whipped out, felt like no, fund's going 440 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 3: where there's no goalie, and once women pop, they can't stop. 441 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 3: He wouldn't stop making her drink. I've passed by limit. 442 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 3: It won't be safe getting home. I'm done, she says, 443 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 3: Why so concerned when there are all these guys to 444 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 3: escort you home. Her thoughts is, your people are my 445 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 3: biggest concern, she thought to herself as she furtively emptied 446 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 3: her glass and the other empty cups and bowls at 447 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 3: the table. She also learned that the guys were paid 448 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 3: better from the very start, but the information started very 449 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 3: little in GM who followed the day's quota of shock 450 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 3: and disappointment, which is again not so incoming here. Although 451 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 3: the pay gap is higher in South Korea. 452 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 2: Now, and we've talked about that a lot, especially in 453 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 2: tech jobs, about the kind of pressure to like kind 454 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 2: of isolate women, especially younger employees, and get them drunk 455 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 2: and then take them to a hotel room or something, 456 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 2: which is a really dangerous environment. 457 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: Here's another quote. 458 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 2: For safety reasons, the company allowed pregnant employees to push 459 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 2: their work hours back by half an hour. When she 460 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 2: announced her pregnancy at work, one of her male colleagues exclaimed, 461 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 2: Lucky you, you get to come to work late. 462 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: Lucky me. 463 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 2: I get to wretch all the time and am unable 464 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 2: to eat or properly, and I'm always tired, sleepy and 465 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 2: soar all over. Giong wanted to say, but held it in. 466 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 2: She was disappointed by his insensitive remarks, which showed no 467 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 2: concern for all the discomforts and pains of pregnancy, but 468 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 2: she couldn't expect someone who wasn't her husband or family 469 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 2: to understand that. 470 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 3: I will say I think for the most part in 471 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 3: the US, I keep comparing it, but people are starting 472 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 3: to understand how laboring and how difficult pregnancy is. But 473 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,959 Speaker 3: there's still this attitude that it's a free rise onhow 474 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 3: that you get special trement, which is completely absurd. 475 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And there's definitely a lot around that in 476 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 2: this book of kind of the like I don't get 477 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 2: while we're not while we're treating this like a free rid, right, 478 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 2: including this coke. Because there was also a lot coming 479 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 2: from professionals like doctors, which is something we've also talked 480 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 2: about before. Quote the doctor chuckle to himself. Back in 481 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 2: my day, women used clubs to do the laundry, lit 482 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 2: fires to boil baby clothes, and crawled around to do 483 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 2: the sweeping and mopping. Don't you have a washing machine 484 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 2: for laundry and vacuum cleaner for cleaning women these days? 485 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 2: What if you got to whine about dirty laundry doesn't 486 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 2: march into the machine by itself. To young thought, the 487 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 2: clothes don't wash themselves with detergent and water, march back 488 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 2: out when they're done and hang themselves in clotheslines. The 489 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 2: vacuum doesn't roll around with a wet and dry rag, 490 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 2: wipe the floor and wash and dry the rags for you. 491 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 2: Have you ever even operated a washing machine or a 492 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 2: vacuum cleaner? M. 493 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. There's a lot of privilege in these conversations. 494 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 2: Yes, oh yes, and a lot of just gaslighting of Flake. 495 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: Right, what do you have to write about? You've got 496 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: a washing machine now exactly? 497 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 3: And then they talk about once again the preference of 498 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 3: gender and children. It says it wasn't just the older generation. 499 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 3: Women of June's age shamelessly said things like my first 500 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 3: was a girl, so I was nervous until I found 501 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 3: that the sex of the second one. I can hold 502 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 3: my head up high around my in laws now that 503 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 3: I have a boy. Or I started getting myself all 504 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 3: kinds of expensive food when I found out I was 505 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 3: having a boy again, trying to celebrate and impress upon 506 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 3: the fact that boys were of more worth and therefore 507 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 3: worthy of celebrating and or pride. 508 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: Yeah. 509 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think this is a bigger conversation we 510 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 2: have been having, but about kind of the damage around 511 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 2: what intentional or not what women inflict on other women 512 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 2: of saying things like that and not realizing sometimes the 513 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 2: internalization that's going on, and especially I feel like a 514 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 2: lot of that's been happening around things like weight, our 515 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 2: body image. But also I saw a meme the other 516 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 2: day that was just like Disney Villains in the nineties outright, 517 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 2: you know, like Mustache Clear in the two thousands, it 518 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 2: was like hidden, you didn't know who they were, and 519 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 2: now it's in your generation trauma. 520 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And here's the final quote. 521 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 2: In twenty four thirteen, around the time Kim Gieong left 522 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 2: the company, one in five married women in Korea quit 523 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 2: their job because of marriage, pregnancy, childbirth, and childcare, or 524 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 2: the education of their young children. The workforce participation rate 525 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 2: of Korean women decreases significantly before and after childbirth. Is 526 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 2: percentage starts at sixty three point eight percent for women 527 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 2: age between twenty and twenty nine, drops to fifty eight 528 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 2: percent for women age thirty to thirty nine, and increases 529 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 2: again to sixty six point seven percent for women over forty. 530 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 2: So it again, we got to kind of see these numbers, 531 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 2: these statistics through Jiyoung's experience, and she did. She ended 532 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 2: up kind of being pressured to leave her job and 533 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 2: then being judged for doing so. Right, she got a 534 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 2: lot of a lot of judgment from people on public transportation, 535 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 2: like just people all around. 536 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 3: And yeah, the story is a It's an interesting story 537 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 3: because it begins we see a scene of her having 538 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 3: breaks in which she becomes a different person. You see 539 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 3: her becoming her mother, You see her becoming her best 540 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 3: friend who passed away during childbirth, and then it goes 541 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 3: on to her being the actual baby and the husband 542 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 3: trying to figure out what's going on, and then her 543 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 3: being diagnosed with postpartum depression, and at the very end 544 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 3: of the book, we hear the doctor being like, Okay, 545 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 3: this is not it. This is not what we thought. 546 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 3: I don't know if it's disassociative, but that there's something 547 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 3: different to this in which her trauma has gone through 548 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 3: all this process. And even though her childhood was not 549 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 3: necessarily traumatic in the sense of then being poor and 550 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 3: or the mother being too strict, or the mother not 551 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 3: allowing her to find herself, which the mother really did, 552 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 3: wanting her to become who she wanted to be and 553 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 3: follow her dreams and not stop even very adamant about 554 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 3: her the girls having their own bedroom because she never 555 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 3: got to have that, being able to give all these things, 556 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 3: but because of the expectation of society, she fell apart 557 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 3: because she had to let go of so much, many 558 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 3: things to sacrifice for things around her, and no matter 559 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 3: what choice she made, she was wrong by societal standards, 560 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 3: and I think it's interesting. I know one of the 561 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 3: criticisms to the book was that we don't know the 562 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 3: full like the breakdown her life, now what is happening? 563 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 3: It was just more of a look back on a setup. 564 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,959 Speaker 3: It was like a setup without an actual ending to it. 565 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 3: And I think that people were like, really, like what 566 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 3: just happened? But it was I think this was book 567 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 3: was a big commentary, and I know that Choe really 568 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 3: wanted to show her aside what she went through and 569 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 3: the things that she had to let go of. She 570 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 3: got to write a book finally, but it took all 571 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 3: of the suffering to get to this point, and I 572 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 3: find that interesting in itself. It is a commentary about 573 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 3: the lack of understanding and lack of rights for women 574 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 3: any social standards. So yeah, it definitely had a big 575 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 3: audience because as simple as the book was and it's 576 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 3: telling and as short as it was, it was as 577 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 3: a slat to the face of the society of South 578 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 3: Korea and where they were at that point in time. 579 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it clearly resonated with a lot of people 580 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 2: for it to get picked up like that. And also 581 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 2: one of the quotes I included where she's talking about 582 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 2: like there were all these you know, positive movements for 583 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 2: women's equality, and then there were all these like backtracking 584 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 2: and the mixed signals were so confusing. Like that I 585 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 2: felt like was really powerful because it is true. It's 586 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 2: like you're being told, oh, we expect you to do 587 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 2: all this stuff now, and you can go and be 588 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 2: anything you want to be, but then there's all these 589 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 2: other things that are telling you, no, you can't, right, 590 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 2: So I felt like that was a really powerful thing. 591 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 2: And then also what you said, like the fact that 592 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 2: there's like quote not an ending, I mean, and that's 593 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 2: this could be me reading too deep, but I feel 594 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 2: like that's sort of you know, the story is still 595 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 2: being written, like her story is still ongoing, This discussion 596 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 2: around women in Czechria is still ongoing. So yeah, I mean, 597 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 2: it really did. It caused a lot of conversation and 598 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 2: it a lot of people really connected with it. 599 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is an award winning book in South Korea 600 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 3: as well as an award winning film in South Korea. Again, 601 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 3: it really brought a lot of attention to different things. 602 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 3: I think a lot of the caje abas that I've 603 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 3: been talking about actually came after the fact and started 604 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 3: telling this big story. I just watched one recently called 605 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 3: Because This is Her First Life, and it talks about 606 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 3: harassment in the workplace and women not being able to 607 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 3: move up. So it was really really interesting, a lot 608 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 3: more spicy, like unexpected. I was like, whoa, they're talking 609 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 3: about condoms here, what the hell? But the fact is 610 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 3: that they come to the point that women are starting 611 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 3: to get tired. But that conversation is yes, it looks 612 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 3: like society is moving forward, but tradition holds them back. 613 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 3: And it's really hard to move forward when you have 614 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 3: societal looks, whether it's other women, whether it's members of 615 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 3: your family telling you keep to the old ways, and 616 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 3: you will be criticized for doing the new ways. 617 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 2: So you better be ready, right, Yeah, yeah, I'm sure 618 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 2: this is something we'll come back and talk about more. 619 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: Uh, because there was a lot going on. 620 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,240 Speaker 2: It's again, we say this all the time, but these books, 621 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 2: a lot of times we have to choose shorter books, 622 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 2: not that we don't want to read them, but we 623 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 2: kind of are like time wise, but it packs so 624 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 2: much in and like so much in for for something 625 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 2: of its length, So highly recommend it. Go check it out, 626 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 2: and in the meantime, if you would like to recommend 627 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 2: another book for us for our next book club. You 628 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 2: can our email stuff and your mom stuff at iHeartMedia 629 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 2: dot com. You can find us on Twitter. A mostaff 630 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 2: podcasts are on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I've Never 631 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 2: Told You. 632 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: You can also find us on YouTube. We have a book. 633 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 2: You can pre order it at stuff you Should Read 634 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 2: Books dot com. Thanks as ow it's to our super 635 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 2: producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. 636 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 2: Thank you and thanks to you for listening. Steffan Never 637 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 2: Told you this production of iHeartRadio. For more podcast from 638 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:06,839 Speaker 2: my Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app, 639 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 2: Apple podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows.