Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeak. I love it Bubble and Squeak on
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeaker cooking at every moment left over from
Speaker 1: the night before. Hi everybody, and welcome back to the
Speaker 1: final episode of two for Off the Beat. This is
Speaker 1: Brian Baumgartner wishing all of you a happy New Year. Today,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be continuing on last week's theme of best
Speaker 1: of bringing you more of my favorite moments from almost
Speaker 1: a whole year of going Off the Beat. It's been
Speaker 1: quite a ride. I'm so glad that you have been
Speaker 1: with me every step of the way. And if you're
Speaker 1: new listeners, if you like what you're hearing last week
Speaker 1: and this week, please check us out subscribe in the
Speaker 1: new year. To kick us off, I'm going to start
Speaker 1: with a woman you may know as Nelly Bertram, but
Speaker 1: I know as my hilarious friend Katherine Tate. Here she
Speaker 1: is making the very surprising claim that she wasn't always
Speaker 1: quite this outgoing. I was an incredibly shy child, really
Speaker 1: really shy. So I mean talk about you know, least
Speaker 1: expected to do anything, let alone get up and make
Speaker 1: people laugh. That was That would have been me, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I you know, I mean, I was painfully shy,
Speaker 1: So potentially, I suppose, if I was thinking about it,
Speaker 1: maybe I did find a route in with sort of
Speaker 1: making characters and and doing sort of voices and becoming
Speaker 1: other than myself. But I definitely identified quite early on
Speaker 1: a really good way of deterring bullies was to be
Speaker 1: able to make me laugh. And and that really emboldened me,
Speaker 1: really because I'd had a really unhappy stint at school
Speaker 1: at one of the Catholic school one of the conventations,
Speaker 1: had a really unhappy stint there, and I realized one
Speaker 1: day that actually, if you can make them laugh, they
Speaker 1: will leave you alone. And and that's I think that's
Speaker 1: kind of where I definitely honed it as a defense mechanism. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: so hiding in a way, still being shy, hiding in
Speaker 1: a way behind the characters that you created early on,
Speaker 1: I guess, although I although I all, I didn't do
Speaker 1: characters or anything when I was a kid, but I
Speaker 1: I learned a way of making people laugh, you know,
Speaker 1: I learned to I suppose to create the character of
Speaker 1: the of the of the of the comedian, of the
Speaker 1: class clown, you know, all of the of the funny
Speaker 1: one and and protected me. I felt right. So I
Speaker 1: I came from theater myself. I never thought I would,
Speaker 1: you know, do film and television. For me, it was
Speaker 1: all about theater and live performance and creating characters on stage.
Speaker 1: You early on very prestigious in in Britain, in London.
Speaker 1: You became a member of the National Youth Theater. And
Speaker 1: I heard you auditioned four times for Drama School. I
Speaker 1: auditioned for four times, yeah, but no National Youth Theater.
Speaker 1: I yeah. I was there with Daniel Craig. He was
Speaker 1: the shining light when I was when I was at
Speaker 1: Youth Theater, and I was I was when he was
Speaker 1: playing Leonardo, the lead in Blood Wedding. I was playing
Speaker 1: Girl One, so uh yeah, and things things blossomed from there. Well,
Speaker 1: you must have had experiences though on on stage other
Speaker 1: than Girl One through your How long were you there? Well,
Speaker 1: the thing is I was there for quite a few years.
Speaker 1: But we kept, we kept doing, we kept turning out
Speaker 1: this same the same play. Because I guess it has
Speaker 1: got a little bit of success. But I know, we
Speaker 1: took it to Spain, we took it to the West End.
Speaker 1: We did it again in the West End, you know,
Speaker 1: and I think at some point so I wasn't in
Speaker 1: this particular cast, but I think it then went we
Speaker 1: went to Russia or something, you know, I mean, we
Speaker 1: really flogged to this one and I just had a
Speaker 1: great time. I had a fantastic time, but I had
Speaker 1: also some running concurrently with that, I joined another youth
Speaker 1: theater in the East End of London, where I did
Speaker 1: get the chance to do lots of fun parts and
Speaker 1: you know, had a little bit more to Student Girl one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then by the time I got to Central, which
Speaker 1: was college essentially we all got our chance at doing
Speaker 1: leads and great parts. Yeah. Did you think that theater
Speaker 1: was what you were going to do or did you
Speaker 1: always have an idea of something else? No, I absolutely
Speaker 1: loved theater. And my my first job out of college
Speaker 1: actually was in the National Theater. So I having graduated
Speaker 1: from the youth the after, I went to the actual
Speaker 1: National Theater and stayed there about a year, I guess,
Speaker 1: And did you know touring shows, you know, like cam
Speaker 1: around the theaters doing My first job was off Miller
Speaker 1: was all my sons? Where did you playing all my sons?
Speaker 1: The girl? The girl in it? You know, the yes
Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, it was. It was a long time ago.
Speaker 1: I did Joe Keller twice, by the way, Sorry it's
Speaker 1: about me. I did Joe Keller twice as a much
Speaker 1: much too young man. Yes, I did Joe Keller, right right, Yes,
Speaker 1: I would say so, uh so, yeah, I just didn't
Speaker 1: didn't occur to me. Even when we were at school,
Speaker 1: you know, drama school. It was theater that we were
Speaker 1: trained in. We you had a couple of a tiny
Speaker 1: smattering of film and television, I mean as a novelty. Really,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is like or something. It was still
Speaker 1: theater was the thing that the school wanted to churn
Speaker 1: out theater actors, you know, And I absolutely thought that
Speaker 1: would be what what I did, what I wanted to do.
Speaker 1: But by the time I graduated, the idea of repertory
Speaker 1: theater just wasn't in the country anymore. It died out.
Speaker 1: All the all the regional theaters. All they did was
Speaker 1: received the big touring production on a weekly basis basically,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean that that was all I want
Speaker 1: to do. And just thought, oh my god, I'll just
Speaker 1: go around doing plays all the time. And and it
Speaker 1: didn't really didn't really pan out like that, right, So
Speaker 1: what did you so, what did you do? You graduate?
Speaker 1: And you're like, well that life that I thought that
Speaker 1: I had, well, I graduated and it all started off
Speaker 1: okay because I got I was I was at the
Speaker 1: Nashville for a year only doing like small parts and
Speaker 1: un studying that you know, what do you care? You
Speaker 1: know five who cares? You know, that's what you should
Speaker 1: be doing. And then my contract stopped and and I realized,
Speaker 1: you know what, I've got a feeling. I just had
Speaker 1: this inkling that I needed to do stand up because
Speaker 1: I needed to separate myself from the pack, as it were.
Speaker 1: If you're if you've just left rama college, there's plenty
Speaker 1: of young twenty somethings you know who have who have
Speaker 1: just graduated when you have, you know, I had to
Speaker 1: do something that's sort of put put me in a
Speaker 1: different environment. And and so I I just held my
Speaker 1: breasting jumps in and started doing stand up. And that
Speaker 1: was the best thing I've ever done, because that from there,
Speaker 1: that was it. It was the difference between waiting for
Speaker 1: the fun to ring from your agent going oh, there's
Speaker 1: this this audition and picking up the phone and booking
Speaker 1: your own spots, you know, And I had a day job.
Speaker 1: I was working in an office ironically, and then and
Speaker 1: then after a few years, I was able to stop
Speaker 1: the day job and do do stand up full time.
Speaker 1: But it was having that power. It's taking back that
Speaker 1: power and feeling you've got some agency over your career
Speaker 1: where you know, as many actors they don't you know,
Speaker 1: they don't you are you are at the mercy of
Speaker 1: of the of the casting calls, aren't you? Yes? How
Speaker 1: how was that experience for you? Terrifying? Was it exhilarating?
Speaker 1: Obviously it's still in front of a live audience, so
Speaker 1: you have experience with that, but now they have to laugh, right,
Speaker 1: How was that experience for you? It was? It was
Speaker 1: all of those things. It was terrifying, exhilarating. It was
Speaker 1: like an ouse of body experience. I mean, if you
Speaker 1: analyze it, the act of doing stand up, it's a
Speaker 1: preposterous idea and you'd never you'd never suggest any one
Speaker 1: does it, and you certainly wouldn't do it for yourself,
Speaker 1: you know, the idea of yes. I definitely had a
Speaker 1: bit of stagecraft. So when I when I went out
Speaker 1: and did my first open spot, what would you call
Speaker 1: them open spots? Yeah? Yeah, sure, yeah, open micer whatever, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: open mike exactly. It wasn't the first time I've been
Speaker 1: in front of an audience, so I had that going
Speaker 1: for me. But even little simple things like I've never
Speaker 1: held a microphone in my hand? Why how? Why would
Speaker 1: I worked in theater. You didn't need you didn't use
Speaker 1: the microphone. It was just like what you do with this?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, what's this? You know? And it was
Speaker 1: but it dawned on me, I think halfway through my
Speaker 1: sort of my little five minute opens but was this
Speaker 1: is ridiculous because not only am I asking people, not
Speaker 1: only are you expecting people to be quiet, you're asking
Speaker 1: them to listen and then laugh at what you say.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's that the notion is ridiculous, if you
Speaker 1: if you, if you analyze it. But I loved it.
Speaker 1: We love it too, Katherine. So there you go. That's
Speaker 1: my office connection for this episode. But my next guest
Speaker 1: has his own very strange office connection because I kid
Speaker 1: you not, he was once Ellie Kemper's high school teacher.
Speaker 1: It's just really hard to imagine him being a teacher
Speaker 1: or Ellie being being his student, being a student at all.
Speaker 1: I guess literally any part of this scenario happening in
Speaker 1: real life is shocking to me, but delightful now that
Speaker 1: I know that it's true. Here he is Ellie Kemper's
Speaker 1: high school teacher. Oh and Don Draper John Ham, I
Speaker 1: have to go back on that for a second. You
Speaker 1: remember Ellie like you remember her as a student. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and her sister carry too. Yeah, of course I remember
Speaker 1: all my kids like for for the most part. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I definitely remember Ellie. She was She was just a
Speaker 1: really hard working, diligent, achievement oriented student. It was very
Speaker 1: it was great. Like honestly, as a teacher, you're like,
Speaker 1: those are the kids that you only want, right, So
Speaker 1: when did you reconnect with her? Do you remember seeing
Speaker 1: her again? Or yes? I do. She she went to college.
Speaker 1: That was five years later. I was out here in
Speaker 1: l A. I had probably been working. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if I was on Madman by that point, but she,
Speaker 1: I remember emailed me and said, I'm coming out. I
Speaker 1: went to this and I did this, and I've been
Speaker 1: doing this U c B and blah blah blah, and
Speaker 1: I'm coming out and I'm doing my one person show
Speaker 1: at U c B Theater and I was like, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, that's awesome. That's like five minutes away from
Speaker 1: my house. I'd love to come see it. That sounds great,
Speaker 1: And so I did, and I came backstage after the
Speaker 1: show and I was like, you were really great. That
Speaker 1: was awesome, you know it was there were twenty people
Speaker 1: in the audience, and She's like, Oh, I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: I got it. I have an audition tomorrow for the Office.
Speaker 1: And I said, well, I think you're going to get
Speaker 1: it because you are perfect for that show and this
Speaker 1: is like a perfect showcase for you. And the rest
Speaker 1: is history. That is crazy. Suffice to say, I do
Speaker 1: remember when I saw her. You do remember her? I
Speaker 1: I assume you were asked. I don't know if by her.
Speaker 1: How did it come to be that? Well, you play
Speaker 1: her captor then on Kimi Schmid years later and keep
Speaker 1: in touch before then? Well, yeah, actually we had done
Speaker 1: Bridesmaids together, right, so we had that sort of meeting again.
Speaker 1: And I remember being on the red carpet for that
Speaker 1: movie and looking over at Ellie and she caught my
Speaker 1: eye and I was like, this is so weird, and
Speaker 1: we both kind of laughed, and I think we gave
Speaker 1: each other hug, and I was just like, I can't
Speaker 1: believe you're I'm like standing next to you on a
Speaker 1: red carpet at a major motion picture that we're both in.
Speaker 1: That's going to be a huge hit, we didn't know
Speaker 1: at the time, but going to be sort of a
Speaker 1: cultural touch point for many people. But it was nice,
Speaker 1: to say the least. But yes, I had kept up
Speaker 1: with her, and obviously because I knew a lot of
Speaker 1: you guys on the Office too, So like people maybe
Speaker 1: don't know this, but like you know, the the Awards
Speaker 1: Show kind of swirl, you know, had us in it
Speaker 1: for quite a few years, us being Madman, and then
Speaker 1: also the Office and Dirty Rock, and so we would
Speaker 1: see each other at a couple of occasions every every
Speaker 1: year for quite a few years. So I would run
Speaker 1: into her at those things, as well as you and
Speaker 1: b J and Mindy and Tina and Robert Carlock and
Speaker 1: all the thirty Rock gang. And and that's when I
Speaker 1: did the stretch I did on Dirty Rock after thirty Rock,
Speaker 1: And that's when Tina and Robert said, Hey, we're kicking
Speaker 1: around this idea. We really wanted to develop this thing
Speaker 1: for Ellie. Would you take a look at it, would
Speaker 1: you consider it? And I was like, I don't know
Speaker 1: if I really want to be a go back right
Speaker 1: into serious television. They're like, no, no, no, you're in
Speaker 1: like one episode a year. I was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: that's first of all, how dare you. Second of all,
Speaker 1: let's say, let's take a look at it. And they
Speaker 1: were like, well, let's let us come pitch it to you.
Speaker 1: And I was like, okay. At that stage of it,
Speaker 1: it was a pilot and the pilot was called Tooken
Speaker 1: t o o kay En. I was like, okay, what
Speaker 1: what and they're like, okay, you play a guy who
Speaker 1: kidnapped for women and kept them in an underground bunker.
Speaker 1: And it was literally like, let me finish. But it's funny.
Speaker 1: It's like so I was like, I mean, I trust
Speaker 1: you guys, but I mean really like a lot of
Speaker 1: weird stuff had just come out about people, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, man, I'm not sure I
Speaker 1: find the funny in this. But then I read it
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, it's really funny. And it's
Speaker 1: about the only way you get away with that is
Speaker 1: by playing this person as a complete and utter buffoon
Speaker 1: and totally out of the realm of believability and it
Speaker 1: was really fun. I mean, playing that guy was so
Speaker 1: silly and so dumb, but so fun because it was
Speaker 1: so like Robert Carlock, who wrote the majority of the
Speaker 1: Reverend stuff, just got that dumb energy of like it's
Speaker 1: it's not even toxic masculinity, it's just stupid masculinity. It
Speaker 1: was really fun to do. And yeah, I mean it
Speaker 1: went for forever and we got to do that really
Speaker 1: fun Netflix choose your own Adventure kind of thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was really I was really really pleased with how
Speaker 1: it grew and how it ended and how it developed
Speaker 1: Titus's character and Carol Kane's character. Like it was just
Speaker 1: like the best of shows, like your show. It became
Speaker 1: like watching a family grow and like you watched the
Speaker 1: characters kind of go through their own stuff and you
Speaker 1: watch them figure their own stuff out and by the
Speaker 1: end of it there better. Yeah. Well fat, So let's
Speaker 1: go back your teaching that, John Burrows, When did you
Speaker 1: make the decision that you needed to go to l A.
Speaker 1: I remember they had asked me to consider doing another
Speaker 1: year at school, um, and I was like, well, I
Speaker 1: don't know, guys, like I think I wanna try to
Speaker 1: see what can happen with this, And I just remember
Speaker 1: having this thought of like, well, I'm getting kind of old. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like I'm getting a little long in the tooth, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, nowadays is actually true. Like if you're
Speaker 1: not famous by fourteen on TikTok, give it up, I'm kidding.
Speaker 1: I'm kidding. Don't, please don't, And also don't get famous
Speaker 1: on TikTok. But I was I just had a sense
Speaker 1: of like, well, if not now, when And I could
Speaker 1: definitely see inertia settling in if I didn't at least try.
Speaker 1: And I remember one of my acting teachers a long
Speaker 1: time ago, even actually the guy went and taught underneath
Speaker 1: at Burrows. I said, like, what's the worst thing that
Speaker 1: can happen? If you try? You fail, so then fail
Speaker 1: again and fail better. I was like, Okay, that's it's
Speaker 1: like pretty good advice. And it is like it really is,
Speaker 1: like I really think, especially nowadays, and especially how uncertain
Speaker 1: everything seems with the pandemic, with the complete devastation of
Speaker 1: social norms as it seems over the last few years,
Speaker 1: I think the idea of failing is so terrifying to
Speaker 1: people and and in reality you're kind of like and
Speaker 1: then you know what will happen, Like you'll fail at something,
Speaker 1: and then the sound is gonna rise and you're gonna
Speaker 1: get up and go get another job or not, or
Speaker 1: you know you're gonna make it work. It's not climbing
Speaker 1: Mount Everest every time. Sometimes it's just walking up a
Speaker 1: hill and you just have to put one ft in
Speaker 1: front of another and then all of a sudden you
Speaker 1: look back and you're like, look, how far upcome? This
Speaker 1: is actually impressive. I'm impressed with myself, right, it is?
Speaker 1: You deserve credit, though, what do they say a bird
Speaker 1: in a hand? Like leaving something, especially when you're in
Speaker 1: this business where it's so hard to get work, it's
Speaker 1: difficult to I mean you were twenty four, I I
Speaker 1: mean I was working in the theater and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to go to l A. I want to
Speaker 1: go to l OH but I have this job. It's
Speaker 1: really hard to say no, this is what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to l A. And leaving opportunities that
Speaker 1: you have is it's difficult. Well, I think there are
Speaker 1: there are inflection points, right obviously, and we all have them.
Speaker 1: Some of them happened earlier for us, and some of
Speaker 1: them happened later. And I think the idea is in
Speaker 1: the best case scenario, and I think you can probably
Speaker 1: attest to this as well, having the ability to identify them. Right,
Speaker 1: so when you get an opportunity, you say, Okay, this
Speaker 1: is an opportunity, like, I really want to take advantage
Speaker 1: of this. And I remember, God, I mean when I
Speaker 1: came out here, I auditioned for everything and I got nothing.
Speaker 1: I was an extra in the pilot of the TV
Speaker 1: show The Practice, you know, I was up for Deep Impact.
Speaker 1: I didn't get it. John Favreau got it. And it
Speaker 1: was just one of those things of like coming so
Speaker 1: close to something and not getting it's coming so close
Speaker 1: to something and not getting it. And that happened over
Speaker 1: and over and over and over again. And I had success,
Speaker 1: and I had a couple of things that I got,
Speaker 1: and it was kind of climbing up that hill of
Speaker 1: loose gravel and sliding down and climbing back up and
Speaker 1: sliding down. But then I remember when Madman came around.
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, this is like an inflection point.
Speaker 1: This is an actual thing that I could really do
Speaker 1: and really do well, and I think that I need
Speaker 1: to id I have to like call it out and
Speaker 1: I have to be I have to get this. I
Speaker 1: just have to. I'm not a big like believer in
Speaker 1: the secret or you know, manifesting your destiny or whatever that,
Speaker 1: but I was very much aware that I really did
Speaker 1: in a way that I hadn't identified any of these
Speaker 1: other opportunities or options that I really thought this was
Speaker 1: right for me, all right, folks. Next up is the
Speaker 1: first of the pens that you'll hear from today on
Speaker 1: why he almost didn't take a role that would change
Speaker 1: his life trajectory, which if you listen to this full episode,
Speaker 1: would not be the last time that he would begrudgingly
Speaker 1: take on an amazing role. Here he is to tell
Speaker 1: you all about it, the incredible my new bestie, Pen Badgeley.
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. I was ready to hang it up
Speaker 1: before I took Crossip girl. I've been doing television for
Speaker 1: so long, really, it was already so disillusioned with the process.
Speaker 1: I had done so many shows, series leads, series that
Speaker 1: had all gone to series, not just pilots that had
Speaker 1: then failed and been canceled. We try to get that
Speaker 1: back nine you know what I mean. You know the
Speaker 1: first season in the office, you know, you know how
Speaker 1: was it a strug that combatus to get a show
Speaker 1: to make it? And I was just like, you know,
Speaker 1: I can't do TV anymore. I just can't. And that's
Speaker 1: why when Gossip Girl came along, I initially did say no,
Speaker 1: but anyway, sorry, you can know so you you so no.
Speaker 1: So you you have the opportunity for gossip Girl comes
Speaker 1: and you say no, Yeah, I mean so so the
Speaker 1: so the co creator, Stephanie Savage, she actually asked me.
Speaker 1: She emailed me the script and she said, you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like you will have already She her words
Speaker 1: in my memory are I think that you will feel
Speaker 1: like you've already done this, which is play the flappy haired,
Speaker 1: awkward kid. Okay, because that's what I had done on
Speaker 1: the show we'd worked together on like two or three
Speaker 1: years previous. When I was seventeen years old, I lived
Speaker 1: in Vancouver for the best six months on a show
Speaker 1: called The Mountain where I was playing this young professional
Speaker 1: snowboarder and a show that was basically like the pitch was.
Speaker 1: It was Dynasty on a Mountain, Okay, And she co
Speaker 1: created that show with mcg at the time was huge
Speaker 1: with the OC and all this stuff. So then she
Speaker 1: and Josh Schwartz got together to to make Gossip Girl,
Speaker 1: and Um, she emails me the concept the script and
Speaker 1: was like, I would really love you to look at it, Dan,
Speaker 1: even though I feel like you you'll probably not want
Speaker 1: to do it. And I read it and I said
Speaker 1: thank you, and you're right, you know, thank you for
Speaker 1: thinking of me, but respectfully, like, yeah, this is just
Speaker 1: not what I'm interested in doing right now. And the
Speaker 1: opportunity went away and they cast everybody else. I couldn't
Speaker 1: find who they thought was Dan. Um, she comes back
Speaker 1: and sort of gives me a little bit of a
Speaker 1: a plea, I mean plea maybe sounds not. It wasn't
Speaker 1: like desperate, it was more like it. She she pitched
Speaker 1: me on the idea that I was Dan, and Um,
Speaker 1: I ultimately was sold on it and and said, yes,
Speaker 1: why what made you change your mind? Um, honestly something
Speaker 1: that did not even pan out, Like, I don't feel
Speaker 1: like she was she she meant what she said, but
Speaker 1: what she said was that she was interested in the
Speaker 1: fact that he was like the sort of moral center
Speaker 1: of the show, like a sort of male lead of
Speaker 1: the show I think at its outset, and she was
Speaker 1: sort of pitching me on, like this idea that three
Speaker 1: years prior, I had done our show where I started
Speaker 1: out in a in a in a recurring role, and
Speaker 1: then that role became slowly kind of the heart of
Speaker 1: how she saw the show that I was in every
Speaker 1: episode I think in the end and by the end,
Speaker 1: I was like a really a main character. And she
Speaker 1: was like, you know, think about that's that was the
Speaker 1: arc with your last guy, you know, And I've done
Speaker 1: another series of Warner Brothers since then, and actually he
Speaker 1: was in college, so I was taking a step back
Speaker 1: into high school. And at twenty years old, I was like,
Speaker 1: high school, are you kidding me? Like, like like my
Speaker 1: sideburns are down to my jaw. I don't, I don't,
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not, like you know all, I've never
Speaker 1: even been to high school. And I honestly was just
Speaker 1: I just so wanted to play other things and other
Speaker 1: people and and and other ideas. But she kind of
Speaker 1: had this idea. She was like, you know, this time,
Speaker 1: you'll be starting out as a sort of heart of
Speaker 1: the show, and you know, just think of where it
Speaker 1: can go from there. And And what's interesting about Gossip
Speaker 1: Girl And I say this as a witness, not as
Speaker 1: like a I think I took it personally initially and
Speaker 1: I am I complained as a young and but what
Speaker 1: I see it now and just just purely with detachment
Speaker 1: and like you know, distance and time. The whole point
Speaker 1: of Gossip Girl was that Dan was not meant to
Speaker 1: He was not the heart. Like the show wasn't so
Speaker 1: concerned with having a heart. It was concerned with this aspirational,
Speaker 1: as we say, this sort of fantasy of of the
Speaker 1: of the elite, you know, of the of the glamorous,
Speaker 1: of which basically doesn't exist, you know, but but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's this like fantasy life of youth. And and actually
Speaker 1: in Chuck and Blair, who I think very quickly became
Speaker 1: the clear heart or hearts of the show or the
Speaker 1: bivalve heart of the show, the whole point was that
Speaker 1: they were not moral. The whole point was that they were.
Speaker 1: They were an immoral but they were a moral They
Speaker 1: were sort of like, they did what served them. And
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, because they were portrayed
Speaker 1: by two talented actors, those characters had such depth and
Speaker 1: such range, because actually, when you play people who are
Speaker 1: who are not sure about what's right, you ultimately get
Speaker 1: a more compelling story. And I mean that's why, you know,
Speaker 1: years later, I'm playing a serial killer and people haven't
Speaker 1: ever responded more positively, you know. And I think it's
Speaker 1: a sign of like the sort of stories that were
Speaker 1: interested in what we get from stories. It's actually very
Speaker 1: hard to tell a story about a moral center. It's
Speaker 1: it's I'm not saying that it's not a good story.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's not worth trying, but I'm saying
Speaker 1: that it's Currently we live in an age where it's
Speaker 1: it's more compelling off the bat to tell a story
Speaker 1: about a bad person who's trying, who's trying, because I
Speaker 1: think we can identify more readily with that visceral level
Speaker 1: of struggle. And people also don't want to be told
Speaker 1: what's yeah exactly, what is right? Yeah? Actually that's never
Speaker 1: worked with anybody, so any right, yeah, then it becomes
Speaker 1: preaching well exactly, And I think in some sense, Dan,
Speaker 1: coupled with the way that I unconsciously played him, became
Speaker 1: righteous and annoying, you know. And and that's and that
Speaker 1: makes sense at least I'll say this, I think true
Speaker 1: stands of Gossip Girl usually seem to align with the
Speaker 1: Chuck and Blair kind of like thing. And that's that.
Speaker 1: I do think it's really seems to me, like I
Speaker 1: remember when it happened the first season was episode six.
Speaker 1: They were the kind of unexpected relationship that then just
Speaker 1: worked and then it became the heart of the show,
Speaker 1: really and and I think that no one anticipated that,
Speaker 1: but it was a sign of the times. It was like, ah,
Speaker 1: and a sign of what you just said, which is like,
Speaker 1: you can't start out with somebody who's who's like always
Speaker 1: right or something or who and who always thinks that
Speaker 1: they're good and then just complain about how no one
Speaker 1: else is as good as then that's not that's not
Speaker 1: as interesting. It's not and it's not it's actually not
Speaker 1: humble in the end, Did you view yourself as the
Speaker 1: outsider on the ship? In life, on the show? On
Speaker 1: the show, did I view Dan as the outsider? As
Speaker 1: Dan as the outsider? I mean, that's who he's identified as.
Speaker 1: But to me, the joke is always like, bro, how
Speaker 1: much more on the inside could you be? You're just
Speaker 1: not in the deepest of the inner circle. But you're
Speaker 1: in the same school. You're you're you're a white boy.
Speaker 1: You know, you're you know, your dad was a rock star,
Speaker 1: and you live in a three million dollar apartment rather
Speaker 1: than a thirty million dollar mansion. So like, if you
Speaker 1: think you're on the outside, Dan Humphrey, I'm sorry, but
Speaker 1: you have a lot of learning to do. You just
Speaker 1: aren't literally inside the inside of the inside. You're just
Speaker 1: on the outspirit of the inside, you know. So okay,
Speaker 1: all right, it's true. I'm sure many of us would
Speaker 1: be a okay with the three million dollar apartment in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: My next guest also played a very memorable character, although
Speaker 1: he was not as on the inside of the inside
Speaker 1: or the outskirt of the inside. I'm I'm getting complicated
Speaker 1: either way. Here's Lamore and Morris on his experience playing
Speaker 1: Winston on New Girl. I gotta say writers on a
Speaker 1: New Girl geniuses because they would look at the bits
Speaker 1: in between stuff and figure out what was funny. They
Speaker 1: impro improvised stuff, and they would go, let's tailor it
Speaker 1: towards that, and they would write the most ridiculous stuff
Speaker 1: from my character and it worked and I loved it.
Speaker 1: Every every episode felt like a sketch comedy show to me,
Speaker 1: because I didn't know what character trait I had that week.
Speaker 1: And you know, one week, my character is a professional
Speaker 1: former professional basketball player. The next week he has thin
Speaker 1: fingers and he can't carry anything. Next week he constantly
Speaker 1: has directions for some reason. It's like, what, So it
Speaker 1: was funny? It was fun. It was a fun, fun
Speaker 1: show to do for sure. After this, I can see
Speaker 1: when you felt like they figured out who you were
Speaker 1: and we're able to play into what you felt like
Speaker 1: your strength was. Yeah, And once I knew I wasn't
Speaker 1: gonna get fired, I was just more comfortable going to
Speaker 1: work every day. It's like, Okay, why don't you think
Speaker 1: you were going to be fired? Was there anything specifically
Speaker 1: that happened? I thought I was under performing, To be
Speaker 1: quite honest with you, I knew what I was capable
Speaker 1: of doing, but I would leave fit every day going
Speaker 1: I didn't do what I wanted to do. And they
Speaker 1: don't know that I have this weird energy that I
Speaker 1: could perform at this level that I could perform at
Speaker 1: I don't think they I don't think I've done it yet.
Speaker 1: And I would watch the episodes back and sometimes that
Speaker 1: cringe at him, and I don't know if that's that's
Speaker 1: any good. It's very insecure. I was extremely insecure, and
Speaker 1: you know, my cast mates, obviously in the producers would
Speaker 1: kind of reassure me, like you're not going anywhere, but
Speaker 1: you know, I know how this business is, you know,
Speaker 1: and and they were very gracious to give me a
Speaker 1: lot of room to grow. I think we're all glad
Speaker 1: it happened that way because it was just another piece too.
Speaker 1: I think otherwise perfect Gast. Everybody on the show is
Speaker 1: clicking on all cylinders from day one, and I was
Speaker 1: trying to find my footing. Yeah, I feel like there's
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways a similarity between The Office
Speaker 1: a New Girl in terms of this sort of disparate
Speaker 1: collection of characters that are that find themselves together and
Speaker 1: form this sort of pseudo family in a way. Right,
Speaker 1: is that is that a stretch? Not a stretch at all?
Speaker 1: Not a stretch at all. It's like, no matter what
Speaker 1: office you go into to them in that office there
Speaker 1: this you have a story about a guy who acts
Speaker 1: this where oh I know this woman she behaves this
Speaker 1: way and you wouldn't believe it until you saw it,
Speaker 1: you know, and then the office is a heightened version
Speaker 1: of what people can identify with all the characters on
Speaker 1: the show. And I think that's the same way with
Speaker 1: New Girls. That people they have these people who live together,
Speaker 1: and everyone has a story about my roommate does this,
Speaker 1: or he wears a kimono at night and you don't know,
Speaker 1: no he doesn't. And then you watch New Girl and
Speaker 1: you people go, yeah, look that's about me. You know,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a weird group of people that have
Speaker 1: a common bond, and you know, and they and they
Speaker 1: stick it out and they stick together. And I think
Speaker 1: the reason why our shows resignated is because and lasted
Speaker 1: for so long, is because people at home felt connected
Speaker 1: to the characters. Right. No, for sure, when did you
Speaker 1: realize that the show was taking off it was gonna
Speaker 1: you know, after you after you found your own personal
Speaker 1: security in terms of your job security, when did you
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, we're gonna we're gonna be around
Speaker 1: for a while. Do you remember was there a moment?
Speaker 1: There were a few. I gotta say, once people started
Speaker 1: knowing my name on the street because people people always
Speaker 1: they still to this day, called me Winston from New
Speaker 1: Winston's It's constant, but the moment people would go Mr
Speaker 1: Morris Lamour and Lauren getting get a photo, and I thought,
Speaker 1: my god, they looked up my name like they you know,
Speaker 1: people are invested in It's like sometimes you watch a
Speaker 1: TV show and then you'll just go onto the next.
Speaker 1: Some of my favorite shows, I couldn't tell you the
Speaker 1: actor's real names, you know, And now I can't be
Speaker 1: you know, because we're in the business now. But like
Speaker 1: it's one of those things where you're walking on the street,
Speaker 1: somebody says your name and it hits you like, my goodness,
Speaker 1: that's what they know me from. It must it must
Speaker 1: be working. And when you would read I'm not supposed
Speaker 1: to read comments, but I read them. And when you
Speaker 1: see so many, whether they're good or bad, I go,
Speaker 1: there's a conversation around an episode that we did. There,
Speaker 1: you go, oh, people care. People are actually invested. Then
Speaker 1: you see fan fiction you know about about your show,
Speaker 1: and you're like, whoa, people are disgusting but also invested. Yes, um,
Speaker 1: have you ever played true American? I have American? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but on the accident kind of I was. It was
Speaker 1: a party going on in Hollywood and we walked past
Speaker 1: it and you know, people recognize me, and they were like,
Speaker 1: you'll never believe what we're doing over here. We're playing
Speaker 1: True American. And I reached out to the guy. We
Speaker 1: exchanged Instagrams afterwards, and I've been I've been talking to
Speaker 1: him lately, like where are the photos that I'm in.
Speaker 1: He's like, I was trying to keep you out of
Speaker 1: him because I didn't want to be that guy would
Speaker 1: be a paparazzi guy while your party. But I even
Speaker 1: posted some photos of my instagram back then. They were
Speaker 1: literally having a full on true American party in their
Speaker 1: front yard. That's amazing, like standing on chairs, doing bits
Speaker 1: and you know, screaming JF carry after. It was a
Speaker 1: whole thing, which also blew my mind till this day.
Speaker 1: It still blows my mind. A drinking game with no rules,
Speaker 1: you know, yes, went in prepera. This is not a joke.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, that True American and I
Speaker 1: got online to try to ascertain and figure out what
Speaker 1: the rules were. Reading the description of True American, by
Speaker 1: the way, a drinking game from New Girl left me
Speaker 1: more confused, and I thought that I was to start with,
Speaker 1: So I don't know if that's a good thing or
Speaker 1: about that. But that's that's the point. That's the point,
Speaker 1: because if they're all those beers, you're gonna be confused
Speaker 1: and in the night you're gonna why did I do this? Why?
Speaker 1: Why I One of the things that happened on the office,
Speaker 1: it was intentional. Greg Daniels, our show runner, had come
Speaker 1: from Saturday Night Live, and from the very beginning he
Speaker 1: felt like the ensemble experience was incredibly important. But the
Speaker 1: ensemble experience not just amongst the actors, amongst everyone. And
Speaker 1: so he had writers who were actors and actors who
Speaker 1: were writers, and I know a new girl. You guys
Speaker 1: had a similar experience. You wrote an episode, you directed
Speaker 1: an episode. Was that you or was that a part
Speaker 1: of the culture you you feel like that that was
Speaker 1: created on the show a little, a little of both.
Speaker 1: Liz Mayweather is very She asked a lot of questions
Speaker 1: and loves hearing story. He's about personal life and incorporating
Speaker 1: things that you may have done. And you know, that's
Speaker 1: testament to all the writers as well. They just, you know,
Speaker 1: they want to know and they all know they knew
Speaker 1: that I had aspirations to direct and to write. You know,
Speaker 1: I would always have ideas on set, as actors were
Speaker 1: always pitching ideas, character storylines, My whole, the whole Winston
Speaker 1: being a police officer was my idea, and then writing
Speaker 1: the episode came because of that. The episode that I
Speaker 1: wrote was about my character being being new to the
Speaker 1: force but then meeting this woman that he really liked
Speaker 1: and was vibing with, and then he finds out that
Speaker 1: she's protesting the police, and so he's like, oh, so
Speaker 1: he's now doesn't know if he's ashamed to be a
Speaker 1: cop or if he's proud to be a guy. He
Speaker 1: doesn't know. And so because because he's a black police officer,
Speaker 1: you know, so he's like, uh wait, you know. And
Speaker 1: that came from Twitter. So on the show, my character
Speaker 1: is named Ferguson. At the time, there was a lot
Speaker 1: of civil unrest based on what happened in Ferguson, and
Speaker 1: people started tweeting me. They were like, oh, how does
Speaker 1: it feel to play a black cop with a cat
Speaker 1: named Ferguson in these times? And I was like, God,
Speaker 1: damn it if I get one more tweet about this,
Speaker 1: And people started really asking me questions went from being
Speaker 1: funny two serious, like, na, brother, you gotta speak up,
Speaker 1: what do you think about this? And it's like, I'm
Speaker 1: just an actor, but okay. Uh. So I went to
Speaker 1: Liz Maryweather because I genuinely started feeling uncomfortable. I asked
Speaker 1: her if I could address it on the show, and
Speaker 1: so she said, why don't you write an episode? So
Speaker 1: she paired me with Rob rose L, one of our
Speaker 1: fantastic writer producers, and we came up with an episode
Speaker 1: and we addressed it in in a way, you know,
Speaker 1: a very Network TV funny kind of way, but we
Speaker 1: still put some light on it and what could possibly
Speaker 1: go through the police officer's head in that moment. He
Speaker 1: doesn't meet someone like that, you know, in these times
Speaker 1: that we're living in. So that was the reason why
Speaker 1: I wrote that one. But it was to her it
Speaker 1: was like, please do it. And then directing, they just asked,
Speaker 1: how do you want to direct? Damn? Right? I do?
Speaker 1: You know? Yeah? And that was easy. I was. I
Speaker 1: want to say, it's easy. The process was a lot
Speaker 1: more difficult than I thought it would be. But on
Speaker 1: set everyone was so everyone except for Max Greenfield. Everyone
Speaker 1: besides Max Screenfield was so kind. Max Max is intentionally
Speaker 1: a dick. Yeah, yeah, I had that too, Rain Wilson. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it makes it just it just to make it,
Speaker 1: she has to make a diymmical. Yeah, just take that
Speaker 1: whatever the little, maybe the teeniest amount of insecurity you
Speaker 1: might have, and just just twisted in. Yep it oh it.
Speaker 1: Even though you know they love you and the message
Speaker 1: with you, it's still it works. What they're doing is working.
Speaker 1: I'm getting more and more insecure as the day goes on.
Speaker 1: I'm like my in over my head. You brought up
Speaker 1: Ferguson Are you a cat guy? Um? And disappointed a
Speaker 1: lot of people. No. In fact, hell no, God, you
Speaker 1: know I I don't mind I don't mind cats anymore.
Speaker 1: When I was younger, my buddy used to have a
Speaker 1: bunch of cats, and one of them, when it was
Speaker 1: a kitten, he said, oh, it's buttercut. Hold Buttercup. I said, oh, hey,
Speaker 1: Buttercup is so adorable. And we just got through playing basketball,
Speaker 1: so I had no shirt on. Buttercup goes and attaches
Speaker 1: to my chest and slides down and cuts up my
Speaker 1: chest on its way down. Because it was too fast,
Speaker 1: you didn't see it coming. You couldn't stop this attack
Speaker 1: if you tried. Cats are super quick and sneaky. I
Speaker 1: don't trust them, at least with dogs. They're loud and
Speaker 1: you know they're coming. You know they're coming. This one.
Speaker 1: My next guest is an actor I have admired now
Speaker 1: for quite sometime. He has truly mastered the art of
Speaker 1: transforming into his characters by using entirely different voices, entirely
Speaker 1: different physicalities. He's played fictional characters, yes, but also real
Speaker 1: life people that we all know, yet he has managed
Speaker 1: to convince us that he has become them. When he
Speaker 1: stopped by, he gave us a little insight into just
Speaker 1: how he does it. Here he is Paul Walter Houser.
Speaker 1: I I knew that there were good people in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: That was the vibe I got, because you know, when
Speaker 1: you grow up in a ultra conservative setting and you're
Speaker 1: highly religious, it's it's easy to fall into this thing
Speaker 1: of believing that Hollywood is uh is this really an
Speaker 1: awful place with all these awful people, And it's like,
Speaker 1: I think it's a place full of a bunch of
Speaker 1: real regular people. But it just so happens that egos
Speaker 1: and greed and things play in a little bit more
Speaker 1: aggressively in our business. Then say people that work for
Speaker 1: Turbo Tax. You know, it's it just happens to be
Speaker 1: an environment that plays on the the generational, you know,
Speaker 1: cyclical sins we as humans all incur and then sometimes
Speaker 1: rewards them or doesn't slap risks for some of them,
Speaker 1: and and that's its own thing. But yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: I would say that I learned that you can work
Speaker 1: with wonderful people in Hollywood. I learned to not be
Speaker 1: afraid to improvise. My whole thing was I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: ask permission, I'm gonna ask forgiveness. At that time, especially,
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with the Christopher Guests mockumentaries like Waiting
Speaker 1: for Government, And my whole thing was, I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: one of those actors. I'm not gonna try to be
Speaker 1: Robert de Niro. I'll never be DeNiro. I can't be DeNiro,
Speaker 1: but you bet your ass. I can be at Begley Jr.
Speaker 1: You bet your ass. I can be Fred Willard. And
Speaker 1: I went into it like that and I was rewarded
Speaker 1: for it. Lance Black, who had an Oscar for writing,
Speaker 1: is telling me he loves my improv So like that
Speaker 1: gave me a lot of confidence and let me know
Speaker 1: my my true North as a performer will always be
Speaker 1: to go with my gut instincts. I mean, you talked
Speaker 1: early on about standing up and doing impressions of family
Speaker 1: members or big movie stars of the day, Jack, etcetera.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like that influenced you in terms of
Speaker 1: creating characters, making vocal and physical choices. Is that something
Speaker 1: that was always interesting to you? Yeah, I I was.
Speaker 1: I was sitting at brunch today with our buddies. My
Speaker 1: wife and I were sitting with Ray and deb Jiratana.
Speaker 1: They're they're like a power couple of of They do
Speaker 1: everything from visual effects to directing to their daughters and
Speaker 1: actress like wonderful people. And we're talking and they said,
Speaker 1: how did you pick up on all these weird characteristics
Speaker 1: and choices to make for playing Larry Hall and Blackbird?
Speaker 1: And you know, the answer I gave him was just
Speaker 1: I love watching people. If I'm in an airport and
Speaker 1: I have forty five minutes to wait around for my flight,
Speaker 1: I'm not really begrudging or bemoaning it. It's an opportunity
Speaker 1: for me to pause and watch total strangers. This guy
Speaker 1: pulls out his sandwich from Arby's and he starts eating oh,
Speaker 1: I noticed he's eating with the rapper half on the
Speaker 1: sandwich because he doesn't want to get his hands dirty.
Speaker 1: But then he gets arb sauce on his fingers, licks
Speaker 1: his fingers and wipes him on his pants, So clearly
Speaker 1: being sanitary doesn't matter to him, you know. It's it's
Speaker 1: about finding all the little things and all the little
Speaker 1: people and making up stories in your head of that
Speaker 1: old improv rule. If this is true, what else is true?
Speaker 1: And and those characteristic speak the greater things, both about humanity,
Speaker 1: the or the person in particular. So I, once again,
Speaker 1: that's me, that's me kind of ranting, but also saying
Speaker 1: that being analytical about the pieces that make up people.
Speaker 1: You know, it's just being a journalist. If you could
Speaker 1: be a journalist of humanity and then trying to emulate
Speaker 1: those things, you're a great actor. It doesn't mean you're
Speaker 1: Daniel day Lewis or Violet Davis. It means that you
Speaker 1: pay attention and any of us have that ability. It's
Speaker 1: not like it's a messing. It's it's a human thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I feel like a huge part of my
Speaker 1: job is understanding and observing human behavior, and that being
Speaker 1: able to unlock that behavior can very often unlock the physicality,
Speaker 1: the voice, that everything of a character. There's something really
Speaker 1: communal about the experience of watching film and TV. You know.
Speaker 1: People sometimes want to compliment me and say, wow, you,
Speaker 1: how did you do that character? And I'm like, I
Speaker 1: was doing you your How I did that character? You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's not as crazy or complex as people would think.
Speaker 1: If you can have the fearlessness and specificity to to
Speaker 1: dive into those things that you've experienced. That role Tom
Speaker 1: Cruise played in Tropic Thunder. People are obsessed with that,
Speaker 1: you know. They're like, man, Tom Cruise, and it's like
Speaker 1: he's really he's doing what Dwayne Johnson did in the
Speaker 1: w w E, where he's taking some piece of him
Speaker 1: and then amplifying it to a psychotic degree that makes
Speaker 1: it entertaining. Tom Cruise, like many humans, has any ego.
Speaker 1: What if you took that anger and ego and amplified
Speaker 1: it to a billion you have less grossman. You know,
Speaker 1: doesn't mean times a bad guy. It means that we
Speaker 1: all have some ugly in, some sin, and some truth
Speaker 1: and reality to us. And if we choose to go
Speaker 1: ninety on a detour, that's what less Grossman looks like. Well, Paul,
Speaker 1: it's hard not to compliment you on your character development.
Speaker 1: The work that you have been doing the last few
Speaker 1: years is well, it's awesome, and hey, I'd love to
Speaker 1: see how you would maybe take on the role of
Speaker 1: one of the world's most famous magicians, like, Oh, I
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe my next guest Pen Gillette of Penn
Speaker 1: and Teller. I mean to say that this man has
Speaker 1: lived a thousand lives would be an understatement. Our conversation
Speaker 1: was indeed one of the most surprising yet fascinating conversations
Speaker 1: that I have had this year. Here's just a small
Speaker 1: taste when he tells the story of how a fever
Speaker 1: dream turned into a creative opportunity. I was touring with
Speaker 1: an avant garde band called The Residents out of San Francisco.
Speaker 1: I was touring their opera in as the Narrator and
Speaker 1: in Barcelona, Spain. I got wicked sick and taken to
Speaker 1: a Barcelona hospital, which we're not the best hospitals in
Speaker 1: the world, where nobody knew where where I was because
Speaker 1: I had been taking an ambulance when no one from
Speaker 1: the crew was watching right, I spoke at the time,
Speaker 1: no Spanish, the doctors spoke no English. I had a
Speaker 1: fever that I only saw in centigrade, but was wicked high.
Speaker 1: I was hallucinating out of my mind, and all I
Speaker 1: thought about was if one of these doctors could just
Speaker 1: feel the pain without me having to talk, they could
Speaker 1: diagnose it and fix me. M in a fever dream,
Speaker 1: an actual fever dream. I imagined the whole story of
Speaker 1: the Pain Addict, which is my original short story that
Speaker 1: I published, and I uh. I was taken out of
Speaker 1: that hospital by one of the band members who was
Speaker 1: a tough American who just said, get your fucking hands
Speaker 1: off them. We're Americans, get your fucking hands off them,
Speaker 1: come on, pat and carried me out of the hospital
Speaker 1: and left me in the hotel room in Barcelona for
Speaker 1: three days with a dancer who was left to take
Speaker 1: care of me until I got better and joined rejoined
Speaker 1: the troop. Then, many many years later, I got to
Speaker 1: meet Charlie to a mutual friend in England. We've been
Speaker 1: out for lunch and we are having a wonderful time,
Speaker 1: and I said to him, you know, I don't want
Speaker 1: to turn this into a business meeting. I'm sure everybody pitches,
Speaker 1: you said, Bob, I have been out of ideas for
Speaker 1: two years. Tell me anything. And I told him the
Speaker 1: story idea and he went, jeezus, that that'd be really good.
Speaker 1: And then he said to me, listen, let me tell
Speaker 1: you about me as a collaborator. I don't answer the phone.
Speaker 1: I don't answer text I don't answer emails. I will
Speaker 1: tell you we're doing something, then you will hear nothing
Speaker 1: about it for three months that I'll call you and
Speaker 1: talk for two hours. I will leave you out of
Speaker 1: the process. I'll throw things on your shoulders. I am
Speaker 1: the worst person to work with in the world, but
Speaker 1: I'd like to do this. I said, good. I called them, stead,
Speaker 1: we're gonna work on this. Nothing. Six weeks later he
Speaker 1: called me, talked for three hours and said, I'll send
Speaker 1: you a script and you can make notes on it.
Speaker 1: I said, great, I have some other notes on stuff
Speaker 1: we've been talking about. This will be great. I'll send
Speaker 1: you my notes. Nothing. Nothing. Uh. Then he sent me
Speaker 1: the script. Eight months later, he sent me the script.
Speaker 1: I called him up. He answered and said, we're shooting
Speaker 1: next week. I said, I have some thoughts. He said,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you do. We're shooting next week, I said,
Speaker 1: you know, I really wanted to audition for one of
Speaker 1: the roles. He said, I'm sure you did. It's cast.
Speaker 1: I said, what what is the credit? And they said,
Speaker 1: you'll be happy. He then gave me a fabulous credit
Speaker 1: and overpaid me. And my agent said, we're gonna call
Speaker 1: him and negotiate the fee. We're sure we can get
Speaker 1: him up from here. And I said, listen, for one
Speaker 1: time in show business someone has paid me more than fairly.
Speaker 1: I think we should reward this behavior and say thank you.
Speaker 1: And it came out and people gave me all this
Speaker 1: credit and said, oh, was your original story and I
Speaker 1: said yes, but a lot of what makes it good
Speaker 1: was not done by me. But thank you. That's amazing.
Speaker 1: He's I will now say, he's the best person to
Speaker 1: work with you could ever work with, makes you work
Speaker 1: not at all, gives you more credit, pays you well,
Speaker 1: goes away and no no email or call saying that
Speaker 1: kime out okay or I did a good job, didn't
Speaker 1: I nothing. We went out to dinner afterwards when I
Speaker 1: was in Britain and he said, yeah, that went well,
Speaker 1: and that was the entire about we talked about it.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, pen thank you so much for joining us. Hilarious, insightful,
Speaker 1: and I cannot wait to come to Vegas and see
Speaker 1: your show with Teller in the new year. Listeners, we're
Speaker 1: closing out the year with the wonderful Danica mckeller, who
Speaker 1: of course played Winnie Cooper on The Wonder Years. The
Speaker 1: conversation absolutely heartwarming. So as a little inspiration for the
Speaker 1: new year, I'll let her tell you all about how
Speaker 1: her family managed to balance work and play so well.
Speaker 1: I read that both you and your sister were up
Speaker 1: for the role of Wennie Cooper. Now was this? Did
Speaker 1: this cause issues when you got cast with the family
Speaker 1: at home and it was just a one time role.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like a big deal role that I got,
Speaker 1: you know, it was a one off. But they loved
Speaker 1: her so much they said they were going to write
Speaker 1: a role for her, and they did. She played Becky Slater.
Speaker 1: She did I think nine or ten episodes. That's awesome.
Speaker 1: So because you weren't auditioning for serious roles, this ends
Speaker 1: up becoming a really big deal for you. Do you
Speaker 1: remember anything about the audition? Yes, I remember, I remember
Speaker 1: we auditioned on a Thursday, callbacks for that Friday, and
Speaker 1: I remember there's like a group of girls all reading
Speaker 1: for the part of Winning Cooper, including me and my sister,
Speaker 1: and the room got small and small, and I kept
Speaker 1: having us come in and read again, and then said, Hey,
Speaker 1: we're taking a dinner break. You come back and you're
Speaker 1: gonna read with Fred Savage, the the boy who's playing
Speaker 1: the lead after dinner. I was like, okay, So we
Speaker 1: all went to dinner and there's a restaurant down blows
Speaker 1: the studio city and uh. I remember seeing Fred and
Speaker 1: wondering if that was the kid, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's cute. I wonder if she's the guy who I'll
Speaker 1: be reading with it. It was I'm not sure I've
Speaker 1: ever said in this in an interview, but it came
Speaker 1: down to the three of us, Me and my sister
Speaker 1: and this actress. I don't know her name, but she
Speaker 1: ended up with like a couple of lines in the
Speaker 1: pilot episode. She's the girl for people who are super
Speaker 1: fans of The Wonder Years. Kevin is talking about love,
Speaker 1: you know, Junior High, and there's this couple who's holding
Speaker 1: hands across his desk saying I love you, I love
Speaker 1: you too, and she was one of she was one
Speaker 1: of the three of us who were the final contenders
Speaker 1: or Windy Cooper. So of the three of us who
Speaker 1: were sitting there reading with Fred after dinner, we all
Speaker 1: ended up with Roles on the show. With Roles on
Speaker 1: the show, that's awesome that I love. That's a BTS everybody.
Speaker 1: That's a behind the scenes nugget. Um. I did talk
Speaker 1: for a while to to Daniel Fishel about what I
Speaker 1: understand is the same with you, that you're your first
Speaker 1: kiss was on camera with Fred in the pilot. How
Speaker 1: did that bring some extra nerves? Oh for you, especially
Speaker 1: because at the time I had a huge crush on
Speaker 1: him and I was just so excited and so nervous.
Speaker 1: And I still remember after the first take when they
Speaker 1: said cut, the whole crew started plotting, and I don't
Speaker 1: know who started that, but it was mortifying. I mean,
Speaker 1: you can only imagine all the nerves, anticipation. You know,
Speaker 1: you're about to have your first kiss, You've got a
Speaker 1: crush on the guy, you know, and then it finally happens.
Speaker 1: It's the most amazing moment ever. And it's like, wait,
Speaker 1: that wasn't a private That wasn't real, okay, right? Did you?
Speaker 1: Did you think for the rest of your life free
Speaker 1: time you kissed someone that would it would break out
Speaker 1: an applause all around you. I remember when I had
Speaker 1: my first real kiss at least two years, no year
Speaker 1: and a half later, with Jeremy Miller, by the way,
Speaker 1: who was the little boy on Growing Pains. That was
Speaker 1: my first kids. He was my first little boyfriend. I
Speaker 1: was fourteen and he was thirteen, and and uh, it
Speaker 1: was actually at my dad's house in Lahoya, Okay, were
Speaker 1: they were down there for some reason, and so we
Speaker 1: all hung out and then we're my dad's house and
Speaker 1: we had a moment alone and and I remember thinking, wait,
Speaker 1: is is gonna be my first kiss? And it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is so different because I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: but not scripted, it may or may not happen. So
Speaker 1: that so no, I didn't think You're gonna be cameras.
Speaker 1: But I was like stunned at how odd it felt
Speaker 1: to not actually know how I was going to go
Speaker 1: now it was going to go down? Yes, um, you
Speaker 1: are on the Wonder years basically your entire teenage, right
Speaker 1: twelve to eighteen. What was it like for you growing
Speaker 1: up and and this is a huge show at this time,
Speaker 1: and everybody is talking about it, and everybody is talking
Speaker 1: about you and about Fred at the time. What was
Speaker 1: it like for you growing up in the spotlight with
Speaker 1: all of that attention during what for most is awkward
Speaker 1: teenage years. I was not in touch with it. And
Speaker 1: that's the truth. I was not in touch with it
Speaker 1: at all. At some point, some point, I think it
Speaker 1: was probably sixteen, and someone on set referred to me
Speaker 1: as America's sweetheart, and I was like, what we're talking like,
Speaker 1: I just I was very busy with school and work
Speaker 1: and family life, and my mom, both my parents always
Speaker 1: emphasize the importance of basically everything over show biz. So health, family, school,
Speaker 1: and then sure showbiz. But that's that was the priortiest game.
Speaker 1: In fact, when The Wonder Years got nominated for the
Speaker 1: first time for an Emmy, in fact, we won that year.
Speaker 1: I wasn't there because there was a river chip, like
Speaker 1: a river rafting chip scheduled with my dad and my
Speaker 1: sister that and he had a really busy work schedule
Speaker 1: and we couldn't move it, and so we went on
Speaker 1: the trip, I mean, and it was kind of like, well,
Speaker 1: we have this invitation we could go to the Emmys,
Speaker 1: where we could go in this rafting trip, and my
Speaker 1: parents decided together, know the trip is more important. And
Speaker 1: I remember being in this tiny, little more Tell room
Speaker 1: in Oregon. We're gonna get in the Rogue River the
Speaker 1: next day, and it was like a TV from the
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies. I don't know where, it's tiny little screen
Speaker 1: and we watched The Wonder Years win the Endy. We
Speaker 1: jump up and down the bed and like the one
Speaker 1: and we went to sleep guy but like five in
Speaker 1: the morning and hit the river and had the trip
Speaker 1: of our lives. I mean, I remember picking black berries
Speaker 1: on the side of the river with my dad and
Speaker 1: my sister, and it's some of the most precious memories.
Speaker 1: So that kind of thing, you know, that's that was
Speaker 1: my life. Well, folks, there you have it. As evidenced
Speaker 1: by this week's episode. There's not much I like more
Speaker 1: than some precious memories. So thank you all for this
Speaker 1: incredible year. I cannot wait for you to see what
Speaker 1: we have in store for To put it lightly, well,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be freaking awesome. I hope you round out
Speaker 1: your year with some love, some laughs and whatever it
Speaker 1: is you like doing the most. I'll see you next
Speaker 1: year with well with another pretty cool guest, if I
Speaker 1: do say so myself. So get ready to make some
Speaker 1: brand new memories. Happy New Year, everyone. Off the Beat
Speaker 1: is hosted an executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside
Speaker 1: our executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Diego Tapia.
Speaker 1: Our producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr.
Speaker 1: Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern
Speaker 1: is Sam Cats. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed
Speaker 1: by the one and only Creed Bratton