1
00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:13,320
Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

2
00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,599
Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. You can't

3
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,080
Speaker 1: predict anything. The meat Eater Podcast is brought to you

4
00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,520
Speaker 1: by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands,

5
00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,880
Speaker 1: or scouting for el, First Light has performance apparel to

6
00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,960
Speaker 1: support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at

7
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,199
Speaker 1: first light dot com. F I R S T L

8
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:41,400
Speaker 1: I T E dot com. All right, everybody, saddle up.

9
00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:46,080
Speaker 1: We got a great guest today, author CJ. Box, who

10
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:50,200
Speaker 1: as we're gonna get into We'll just get it. We'll

11
00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,600
Speaker 1: get it right out on the air right now. I

12
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,960
Speaker 1: assume that it was. I thought CJ. Box was too

13
00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,240
Speaker 1: perfect for a writer, for a novelist, and I thought

14
00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,000
Speaker 1: his name must be like Morris.

15
00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,679
Speaker 2: No, it's that's that's my name. I should be a journalist.

16
00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,679
Speaker 2: And by the way, thanks for having me here. And

17
00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,240
Speaker 2: when I worked for newspapers, I was all my stories

18
00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,160
Speaker 2: were by Chuck Box. And then I moved to a

19
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,200
Speaker 2: little town in Wyoming called Saratoga, Wyoming, and I went

20
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,759
Speaker 2: to a ranch party and a rancher once said, man,

21
00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,240
Speaker 2: we love that that crazy name of yours. You know,

22
00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:26,880
Speaker 2: because it's on the back of a chuck wagon.

23
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,399
Speaker 1: I never like to be a cowboy poet named chuck Box.

24
00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,280
Speaker 2: So the next issue of the paper it was C. J. Boss.

25
00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,520
Speaker 1: So you actually had to change your name away from

26
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,800
Speaker 1: a name that would have been a great stage name.

27
00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,440
Speaker 2: Well or or it sounds like a place for utensils

28
00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,160
Speaker 2: on the back of a chuck Yeah, but.

29
00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,520
Speaker 3: Out of Saratoga, Wyoming, Like it's all yeah, it's all

30
00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:50,280
Speaker 3: too cute.

31
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,160
Speaker 2: Like I said, I'm I'm wagon wheel. Yeah, but you

32
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,240
Speaker 2: were born in Casper, that's right. That's right.

33
00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,160
Speaker 1: We'll get into your bio, but uh, needless say, uh,

34
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,680
Speaker 1: best selling author, New York Times Best that's not needless

35
00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,840
Speaker 1: to say. I'm gonna say that with pride, New York

36
00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:12,000
Speaker 1: Times bestselling author, author of thirty books, that's right. And

37
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,000
Speaker 1: in how many? In how many in the current series

38
00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,359
Speaker 1: that you're working on now, because this is your brand

39
00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:17,840
Speaker 1: new release.

40
00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,320
Speaker 2: That's right. That is the twenty fourth Joe Pickett novel.

41
00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:26,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're we're here celebrating three Inch Teeth, a

42
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,280
Speaker 1: Joe Pickett novel, which is the what number.

43
00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,000
Speaker 2: Again, twenty fourth? Yeah?

44
00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,280
Speaker 1: Do you know that I became familiar with you. I

45
00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,160
Speaker 1: had heard your name, but I hadn't read your books

46
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,600
Speaker 1: until it was pointed out to me by a bunch

47
00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,440
Speaker 1: of people that you mentioned my name in one of

48
00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:41,799
Speaker 1: your book.

49
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,720
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. I brought that for you as well.

50
00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, I don't know. I was. I

51
00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,760
Speaker 1: don't know how. I was moderately happy.

52
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:52,720
Speaker 2: Shit's good.

53
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,600
Speaker 1: I thought I was sick. I would open it up,

54
00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,440
Speaker 1: thinking maybe I'm here. Maybe he really Yeah, like I'm

55
00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:03,040
Speaker 1: a hero, I'm widely celebrated. But you did, like what

56
00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,200
Speaker 1: you do with everything you do, is you treated it,

57
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,919
Speaker 1: you know, very fairly. It was. It was a sparse mentioned,

58
00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:11,280
Speaker 1: but I took note good.

59
00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:11,960
Speaker 2: Good. Yeah.

60
00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,520
Speaker 1: My father in law, who reads all of your books,

61
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:22,720
Speaker 1: he didn't catch it. He loves your books. I'm like,

62
00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,160
Speaker 1: you know what, this is the last time he visited you.

63
00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,400
Speaker 1: Tell me, you know you always read every time a CJ.

64
00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,560
Speaker 1: Box book comes out, he reads it, and so I

65
00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:32,400
Speaker 1: knew you read it. And I said, you didn't have

66
00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:39,680
Speaker 1: noticed anything peculiar in that book, did you? I was like, okay,

67
00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,480
Speaker 1: so you might not be your closest reading Well. Yeah,

68
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,680
Speaker 1: the background topic of the new book, three Inch Teeth.

69
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,360
Speaker 1: I feel like he's I feel like he stole it

70
00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:58,520
Speaker 1: from the podcast, might have. I Well. One of the

71
00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,080
Speaker 1: things about the c J Box, uh, the Sorry the

72
00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,400
Speaker 1: Pickett novels is that it's a game board and protagonist.

73
00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:12,920
Speaker 1: So you do your homework and you set it. Instead

74
00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,680
Speaker 1: of setting it like in some bygone era, you set

75
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:21,080
Speaker 1: it these it's contemporary Wyoming with all the issues that

76
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:26,720
Speaker 1: contemporary Wyoming is dealing with and the changes like the

77
00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:33,000
Speaker 1: old ways of life in sometimes in contradiction to intension

78
00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:37,760
Speaker 1: with new people, new ways of life and uh, and

79
00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,400
Speaker 1: right away in the book you get into the Wyoming

80
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:52,640
Speaker 1: corner Crossers, who are not from Missouri, right Pennsylvania. They

81
00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:57,320
Speaker 1: have a specialized yes, they do. And so within this

82
00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,000
Speaker 1: novel is baked in like this sort of like big

83
00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:06,000
Speaker 1: divisive current event. And when Krin was reading it, she

84
00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:11,280
Speaker 1: pointed out how with sort of what generosity and fairness

85
00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,720
Speaker 1: within the novel, the generosity and fairness that you applied

86
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,240
Speaker 1: to the current event, so that someone reading the novel

87
00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,160
Speaker 1: might think that this is just all out of your imagination,

88
00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,599
Speaker 1: but it's actually you tap into these very real issues

89
00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,640
Speaker 1: and lay out the you know, the the opposing sides

90
00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,880
Speaker 1: of these very real issues as your protagonist takes it

91
00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,600
Speaker 1: in and deals with the different sides. So it's like

92
00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,680
Speaker 1: it's it's a really kind of an honest portrayal of

93
00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:42,479
Speaker 1: a place in time.

94
00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,120
Speaker 2: Well, that is something I've tried to do since the

95
00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,400
Speaker 2: very first book. For one thing, I never set out

96
00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,760
Speaker 2: to say, you know, the world is just waiting for

97
00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,599
Speaker 2: a wyoming game Warden series.

98
00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:53,440
Speaker 4: You know.

99
00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,880
Speaker 2: I wrote one book, a book called Open Season, but

100
00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,040
Speaker 2: the issue in that was the endangered species law, and

101
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,640
Speaker 2: it was kind of based on a real the discovery

102
00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:09,440
Speaker 2: of blackfooted ferrets nearing a Metitzi wyoming on the Pitchfork. Yeah.

103
00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,039
Speaker 2: I was a reporter at that time, and I thought

104
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,640
Speaker 2: it was so interesting to me, not that because I'd

105
00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,280
Speaker 2: grown up with little posters around the picture drawing if

106
00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,160
Speaker 2: you see this the animal, call this number. Yes.

107
00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:22,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

108
00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:23,960
Speaker 2: They thought they might be extinct.

109
00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,320
Speaker 3: It was like beware if you're going to go prairie

110
00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,800
Speaker 3: dog hunting, yes, right right, Yeah, and then became.

111
00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:30,839
Speaker 1: A little wanted posters for blackfooted ferrets.

112
00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. But then when they were discovered calling outside of Metzi,

113
00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,080
Speaker 2: I found out when I was a reporter, nearly everybody

114
00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,360
Speaker 2: around there knew they were there. No one ever made

115
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,080
Speaker 2: the call and I thought, that is a kind of

116
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:47,159
Speaker 2: fascinating New West Western story. I want to retell it

117
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,599
Speaker 2: in this book. And uh, the protagonist was originally going

118
00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,680
Speaker 2: to be a sheriff and then a journalist, which is

119
00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:54,479
Speaker 2: what I was, and then I made him a game

120
00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,239
Speaker 2: warden because I was doing ride alongs with game wardens.

121
00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:57,760
Speaker 3: Wow.

122
00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,560
Speaker 2: So since the very beginning, I've tried to have issues

123
00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:05,279
Speaker 2: that you know, resonate among I always thought, if I could,

124
00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,080
Speaker 2: if people around me where I live in Wyoming think

125
00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:12,600
Speaker 2: the books are authentic, that was success, and luckily it's

126
00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,600
Speaker 2: worked out a lot better than that. But so, yeah,

127
00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:20,240
Speaker 2: the corner crossing thing, that case is right in my backyard.

128
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,080
Speaker 2: My wife was called to be on the jury.

129
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:25,360
Speaker 1: How did she do?

130
00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:27,000
Speaker 2: She didn't get called?

131
00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:28,080
Speaker 1: Did she make it to the judge?

132
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,040
Speaker 2: She knew a ranch owner, and she knew the foreman,

133
00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,880
Speaker 2: and she knew the game warden. But we're involved in it,

134
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:34,440
Speaker 2: so she was gone.

135
00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:35,720
Speaker 1: One of these was she trying to get on?

136
00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:37,520
Speaker 2: She really wanted to get on.

137
00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,480
Speaker 5: I was gonna say a conflict of interest might be

138
00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,560
Speaker 5: that my husband might later write a book about this.

139
00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:44,120
Speaker 2: That did comebody.

140
00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,760
Speaker 1: I actually need to be here because my husband's going

141
00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,360
Speaker 1: to write all about which would be like the big

142
00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,160
Speaker 1: best seller. So I want to make sure I'm here

143
00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,080
Speaker 1: to give him like the scoop judge be like you

144
00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:54,480
Speaker 1: could take off.

145
00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,320
Speaker 2: But it's such a fascinating it's it's one of those

146
00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,800
Speaker 2: it's so I can see both sides and I'm not kidding,

147
00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:00,200
Speaker 2: and I try to portray it that way.

148
00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you had formal training as a journalists then too,

149
00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:04,360
Speaker 1: so you're able to apply.

150
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,160
Speaker 2: That as formal training as a journalist can get. Yeah,

151
00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,720
Speaker 2: which is I went to college, that's it, and became

152
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,440
Speaker 2: a journalist and yeah, worked for a little weekly newspapers.

153
00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:13,000
Speaker 1: Got it.

154
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,440
Speaker 3: This is how I see uh novels come to be Right,

155
00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,520
Speaker 3: you're driving down the road, you're listening to the radio,

156
00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,040
Speaker 3: and you just go that sounds like a case for

157
00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:24,120
Speaker 3: Joel Picket.

158
00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:31,640
Speaker 2: It is, or something over here in the post office

159
00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,439
Speaker 2: where everybody goes, or talking to the local game warden.

160
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:35,760
Speaker 1: You know.

161
00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,200
Speaker 2: I get lots of things like that.

162
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,040
Speaker 1: Well, we're gonna we're gonna hit on a couple of things.

163
00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,839
Speaker 1: I got two more things I'm gonna mention. One's a

164
00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:48,760
Speaker 1: question just up top. You gotta have because like living

165
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,320
Speaker 1: in Wyoming. You gotta have people come up to you.

166
00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,640
Speaker 1: You probably can't go anywhere without getting a novel idea

167
00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,760
Speaker 1: right from people at the grocery store.

168
00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,839
Speaker 2: I yeah, I feel like I'm like a predator almost.

169
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 1: You know.

170
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,600
Speaker 2: It's like that old saying, you know, if you if

171
00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,760
Speaker 2: you walk around with the hammer, everything looked like a nail,

172
00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,240
Speaker 2: you know. I like, I see my wife's hay hook

173
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,160
Speaker 2: in the barn, I think, oh god, that's a great

174
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:17,040
Speaker 2: murder way. So yeah, it's pretty easy.

175
00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:18,880
Speaker 1: And people come up and be like, you know what

176
00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:20,200
Speaker 1: you ought to be writing about? Is?

177
00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,840
Speaker 2: I get a little bit too much of that atal

178
00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,280
Speaker 2: And sometimes I'll say, why don't you write that book?

179
00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,599
Speaker 6: Idea is so good? I'll let you have the honor.

180
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,880
Speaker 1: When I mentioned, uh, what I mentioned when I the

181
00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,360
Speaker 1: first uh novel I've read here is a Dark Sky?

182
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,040
Speaker 1: And and uh that was that one where you mentioned

183
00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,319
Speaker 1: me and media and I was joking about the What

184
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,000
Speaker 1: it was is there's this kind of like sort of

185
00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,599
Speaker 1: a rather unlikable Silicon Valley CEO who has what was

186
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,640
Speaker 1: the Steve two point oher or what the hell's his name?

187
00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,079
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, Steve two point.

188
00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 1: He's got one of them. You know he's got like

189
00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,440
Speaker 1: a goofy tech name, kind of annoying. Well, he gets

190
00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,839
Speaker 1: hopped up on watching me eater and decides he wants

191
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:09,240
Speaker 1: to go on out. So it's very like Zuckerberg. It's

192
00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:13,520
Speaker 1: like very Zuckerberg. Ye, like when Zuckerberg announced some year

193
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,760
Speaker 1: that he was gonna only eat stuff he killed. It

194
00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,440
Speaker 1: was like real Zuckerberg. And I was sort of like

195
00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:25,040
Speaker 1: the through the the inspiration. You know, it's better than

196
00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:26,560
Speaker 1: being an inspiration for the villain.

197
00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:27,480
Speaker 2: Yeah right right.

198
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,000
Speaker 1: Uh, Okay, now you gotta hang tight. You can talk

199
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,400
Speaker 1: about anything you want, but we got to talk about

200
00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:35,880
Speaker 1: a couple of things. Okay, they're gonna come back to

201
00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:36,840
Speaker 1: you hardcore and.

202
00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,520
Speaker 7: Feel free to chime in whenever you want.

203
00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:38,920
Speaker 2: Okay.

204
00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:45,280
Speaker 1: Uh. One problem we have is we declared that we

205
00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,760
Speaker 1: weren't gonna talk about my old time saying, Oh I'll

206
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:48,360
Speaker 1: bring you up speed.

207
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,319
Speaker 7: No that's not true. We should talk about it all

208
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:50,720
Speaker 7: the time.

209
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:56,480
Speaker 1: I wanted to invent an old saying, so I came

210
00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,600
Speaker 1: up with based off pick and pole beans, I came

211
00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:04,680
Speaker 1: up with a fresh set of eyes always finds more beans,

212
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:10,559
Speaker 1: Meaning if you put like a new person into a situation,

213
00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,400
Speaker 1: they're gonna find right, Okay, got it a reality that

214
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,400
Speaker 1: was hidden from others, And we talked about it so

215
00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:21,040
Speaker 1: much that we kept talking about it, and people would

216
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,360
Speaker 1: send in different versions. And now we've even got listeners

217
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:29,280
Speaker 1: saying stop talking about it. A woman wrote in that,

218
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,160
Speaker 1: just like when a child learns a new word and

219
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,880
Speaker 1: they use it all the time, her husband three times

220
00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,640
Speaker 1: in one Sunday because it's so annoying, three times the

221
00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:39,680
Speaker 1: one Sunday found a way to say a fresh set

222
00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:43,960
Speaker 1: of eyes will always find more beans. She signs it

223
00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,160
Speaker 1: living in bean Hell. But I point this out only

224
00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,680
Speaker 1: because we now have a T shirt. We have a

225
00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,760
Speaker 1: T shirt of fresh Set Eyes finds More Beans. Mean

226
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,160
Speaker 1: to your podcast. T shirt. Hunter Spencer did the artwork

227
00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:00,320
Speaker 1: and he's got a fist. It's a fist holding up

228
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:07,080
Speaker 1: beans and it says fresh set Eyes finds more beans available. Now.

229
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,079
Speaker 1: I hope they didn't make too terrible many of those

230
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:10,800
Speaker 1: T shirts.

231
00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,320
Speaker 7: No, it's supposed to be a limited edition thing, so

232
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:14,840
Speaker 7: get them all.

233
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,200
Speaker 8: I will say, you might break into the vegan market there, Steve.

234
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,920
Speaker 1: I know Sydney like holding up jerky sticks.

235
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,080
Speaker 5: Sydney used it the other day, Oh sh un ironically

236
00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:26,839
Speaker 5: but she did the version where you sort of trail

237
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:27,680
Speaker 5: off after eyes.

238
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:29,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a name for that. Do you remember the

239
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:29,920
Speaker 1: word is no?

240
00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:30,680
Speaker 7: I don't remember.

241
00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,960
Speaker 1: And you looked that up as a writer, he might

242
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,640
Speaker 1: be an interest in you know, there's a there's a

243
00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,280
Speaker 1: name for when you only say part of saying and

244
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,199
Speaker 1: let it trail off look at up.

245
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,120
Speaker 2: I don't know. I've never heard. I've never heard of

246
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,600
Speaker 2: a name for that. And I just put dot dot

247
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:47,600
Speaker 2: dot yep.

248
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,600
Speaker 1: So if I say to you fresh set eyes.

249
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:52,880
Speaker 2: Dot dot dot, there's a name for that.

250
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,080
Speaker 6: And I don't even know if she herds of a feather.

251
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,760
Speaker 5: I don't know if she was doing it consciously, because

252
00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,440
Speaker 5: it didn't register with me. It just sounded very natural

253
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,439
Speaker 5: when she said a fresh set highs and like three

254
00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,800
Speaker 5: or four seconds I realized that she was going with

255
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:07,760
Speaker 5: the beans saying, and.

256
00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:09,640
Speaker 1: I was podcast listener.

257
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:10,600
Speaker 6: I was taken aback.

258
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,640
Speaker 7: I don't know if I'm pronouncing this properly.

259
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:15,400
Speaker 1: You might have the right things. I remember it being

260
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:24,840
Speaker 1: hard to pronounces. She's Corinth.

261
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,560
Speaker 6: Of all the poetic devices you could have chosen.

262
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna move on while you look for it.

263
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:35,000
Speaker 3: This fascinating.

264
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,480
Speaker 1: Here's another T shirt. This is a few so we

265
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,120
Speaker 1: covered off on this. This is a future T shirt design.

266
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,800
Speaker 1: Where we were talking, we're talking about what we used

267
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:47,800
Speaker 1: to like to draw when we were little kids. And

268
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:53,040
Speaker 1: I drew two things. I drew amphibious tank battles. I

269
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,040
Speaker 1: like to draw those when I was a little kid,

270
00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 1: and it was like like tanks that somehow floated assaulting

271
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,400
Speaker 1: a beach. And I like to draw large Native American

272
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:11,040
Speaker 1: encampments with dozens and dozens of teepees stretching into the horizon.

273
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:13,360
Speaker 1: And Clay was saying how.

274
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,559
Speaker 2: He uh no disrespect. He couldn't move.

275
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,160
Speaker 1: No matter what he did, he couldn't move away from hogs.

276
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 1: And he kept his drawings going even into high school.

277
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,840
Speaker 1: And so he was talking about I could He said,

278
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,000
Speaker 1: I think it's at my mom's house. As he's explaining

279
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,600
Speaker 1: what he used, a common theme he would explore in

280
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,480
Speaker 1: his drawings as a young man, and then promptly his

281
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:44,000
Speaker 1: mom sent a photo of the picture, and I asked

282
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,720
Speaker 1: Clay if I could have it, and he sent it

283
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,400
Speaker 1: to us for the studio. So it's a future man.

284
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:50,360
Speaker 1: I want.

285
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,640
Speaker 8: I want Clay to explain how that gun, the construction

286
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,960
Speaker 8: of that gun works like where the sling is hood.

287
00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:58,840
Speaker 9: I got questions about that.

288
00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 5: It looks like when you know, like if they're making

289
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,480
Speaker 5: sci fi movie props and they take a squirt gun

290
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,000
Speaker 5: and they just attach some other things to it.

291
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:13,560
Speaker 1: It's a future man being charged by a wild hog,

292
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:16,680
Speaker 1: but he's got the drop on.

293
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,080
Speaker 5: It, and he has a claw hand as well.

294
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,880
Speaker 1: Well. He's like, he's otherworldly. He's not of this planet.

295
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:26,480
Speaker 6: I can tell by the musculature.

296
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:32,280
Speaker 1: He's ripped. Yeah, he's ripped and strapped and he's being

297
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:33,120
Speaker 1: chased by a razor.

298
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,640
Speaker 8: He's in trouble if he doesn't pull that trigger pretty quick.

299
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:37,960
Speaker 6: I don't is there a trigger on it?

300
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:38,800
Speaker 2: Am?

301
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,800
Speaker 6: I just fire when he thinks I want this to

302
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:42,479
Speaker 6: be Remember.

303
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,800
Speaker 1: That t shirt he did of the ice age hunter

304
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,000
Speaker 1: doing the grip and grim with the saber tooth tiger,

305
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,080
Speaker 1: sabertooth cat. What do you call those things? Scimitar cat,

306
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,800
Speaker 1: sabertooth cat where it's like a shirt but it's just

307
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:59,080
Speaker 1: a rectangular box like yay, right kind of cross or

308
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,760
Speaker 1: stern them and then that that wonderful picture will just

309
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:03,800
Speaker 1: be in that box.

310
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:06,560
Speaker 6: I can't wait.

311
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,240
Speaker 1: I don't think they should make two many of them either.

312
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,400
Speaker 5: Could we also just do prints of these? I mean,

313
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:12,960
Speaker 5: like that you could hang on your wall.

314
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,240
Speaker 1: I don't know that was from nineteen ninety seven.

315
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,760
Speaker 7: Oh, we should have like a calendar of Clay's old art.

316
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:20,680
Speaker 1: I don't know how many pieces he's got. I know

317
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,320
Speaker 1: about two and all. He's got two and one. Can't

318
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:28,720
Speaker 1: go on the calendar. As I explained earlier about what

319
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,280
Speaker 1: is Oh the other thing I wanted to touch on,

320
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:35,280
Speaker 1: but I can't, like, uh, something that happened this weekend,

321
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,840
Speaker 1: But maybe I should there's like some little more. Are

322
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,360
Speaker 1: you giving me a look like there's a there's a

323
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:42,600
Speaker 1: moratorium on talking about this?

324
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:43,640
Speaker 7: I think I just don't know.

325
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll give you the most cursing. Me and Yanni

326
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:54,240
Speaker 1: and my three kids and his two kids. The dog, Yeah,

327
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:59,160
Speaker 1: went out cat hunting and his uh dog went off

328
00:16:59,200 --> 00:16:59,640
Speaker 1: a cliff.

329
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,800
Speaker 7: He's still alive, And when we.

330
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,879
Speaker 1: Found it, I didn't think it was gonna live. Kids

331
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,920
Speaker 1: are all crying blood all over.

332
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:13,720
Speaker 9: I still don't understand why I got that.

333
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,000
Speaker 1: Underach message because we were on we were on a

334
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,560
Speaker 1: steep canyon and it was snowing and this track was

335
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:28,800
Speaker 1: brand new, and the dog went down into the bottom

336
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:30,919
Speaker 1: of the canyon. I think it jumped the cat, and

337
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,359
Speaker 1: the cat went up the other side into a cliff

338
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:40,240
Speaker 1: band so, and then all of a sudden it's right

339
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:42,120
Speaker 1: and also dead quiet.

340
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,159
Speaker 9: I guess what I'm saying is, why did you not

341
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:44,840
Speaker 9: have you honest?

342
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 1: I have his contact info. Hear me out, dead quiet,

343
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,800
Speaker 1: and then he gets a trade symbol at the bottom

344
00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,639
Speaker 1: of a cliff and an odd line of travel. So

345
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,960
Speaker 1: the dog's zigzag and zigzag and zigzag, and then it

346
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 1: seems like he went a really long ways in a

347
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:11,000
Speaker 1: very straight line to a tread symbol. We tell all

348
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,640
Speaker 1: the kids to hang tight by the snowbill.

349
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:17,240
Speaker 3: This is on's on his GPS, so you can see

350
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,760
Speaker 3: see on a screen the line of travel of the dog.

351
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:25,439
Speaker 1: Tell all the kids stay put, and we go down

352
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 1: to the bottom of the canyon, climb up the other side,

353
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,080
Speaker 1: and find it at the fourth of the cliff, and

354
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,399
Speaker 1: make a plan that he puts it in his backpack

355
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,480
Speaker 1: and he's gonna go a mile and I'm gonna go

356
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,560
Speaker 1: back up and get the kids and circle around and

357
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,440
Speaker 1: pick them up on a snowmill trail. When he doesn't

358
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,200
Speaker 1: show up, I had his phone number, but I didn't

359
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 1: have his I was on my inReach and didn't have

360
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:57,760
Speaker 1: his inReach number, gotcha, trying to find out what was

361
00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:58,600
Speaker 1: going down.

362
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 10: All worked out the phill bleep him saying that, yeah,

363
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,679
Speaker 10: I don't want to tell Yanni's story for him.

364
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:09,920
Speaker 1: Blood all over.

365
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,920
Speaker 3: That's how you want damp Yeah to be continued. Kids

366
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 3: are scared, blood all over. It's snowing, crying.

367
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,560
Speaker 6: Didn't know where Yannie was. He didn't show up at

368
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 6: the show in the place.

369
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,560
Speaker 3: Phone rings and Joe Pickett's office.

370
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:28,600
Speaker 1: Yep, Oh, that might be a good setup.

371
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:29,719
Speaker 2: I like that.

372
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:31,000
Speaker 1: Hey, you know, have you you know you ought to

373
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:32,760
Speaker 1: work into one of your books. Is all these people

374
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 1: getting stuck in vault toilets trying to get their phones

375
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:36,120
Speaker 1: and stuff out of there.

376
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 2: I like that idea. I like that a lot. I

377
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 2: have never thought about that.

378
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,120
Speaker 1: Well, little comic good part.

379
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,919
Speaker 6: Yeah, it could just be sort of like the intro.

380
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,200
Speaker 5: He had just finished getting the woman out of the

381
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 5: vault toilet when he heard a crackle on the radio.

382
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 2: Yes, I've got some outhouse high jinks in this current book.

383
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 2: Two women trapped inside of it of an outhouse in

384
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,520
Speaker 2: it not in the vault and Green Rancher pounding on

385
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 2: the door.

386
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 1: But they're not stuck in the vault.

387
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 2: No, no, not yet.

388
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,440
Speaker 1: I feel like your guy. I feel like Pickett needing

389
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,359
Speaker 1: to help someone who dropped an Apple watch into a

390
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,440
Speaker 1: vault toilet and crawledon there to get it. At a

391
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 1: fishing access site. One, it's just a there's a it's

392
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 1: a epidemic, right.

393
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 6: It helped raise awareness about this.

394
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 2: Yes, a couple of that one. I usually don't.

395
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:31,399
Speaker 1: You don't tell me that I should just write my

396
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,199
Speaker 1: own book. You know how the author I took a

397
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,119
Speaker 1: class in graduate school with the author. You ever hear

398
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 1: of an author? Chris Offitt? No, he wrote Kentucky straight. He's

399
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:44,160
Speaker 1: like a Kentucky writer. Uh. He wrote he was a novelist,

400
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 1: but then wrote a book about his family, wrote a

401
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 1: memoir called I don't know what it was called wrote

402
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 1: a memoir and his family is livid.

403
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:55,920
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, as they are.

404
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 1: His response was, you should write your own version is

405
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 1: what happened? Yes, I'm not stopping you tell the world.

406
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 2: That's the problem with a memoir. You can only do one,

407
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,160
Speaker 2: although some people keep doing them.

408
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 1: No, I always get worried when a writer. I always

409
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 1: get worried for a writer who starts out with their

410
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,440
Speaker 1: life story mm hmm, because that's tough to follow up.

411
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 2: It is, and a guy. I've known quite a few

412
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 2: authors who just came out with that memoir and then

413
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 2: struggled and struggled and tried to come up with something

414
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 2: for book two.

415
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,159
Speaker 1: I always get worried about writers get too big, like

416
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 1: especially in that situation where you do your memoir and

417
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 1: you get a big advance, like a big big advance

418
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: because they're really excited about your life story, and then

419
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 1: it doesn't earn out, and then and then you're like,

420
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,120
Speaker 1: you know, then the thing is like, well, maybe I'll

421
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,200
Speaker 1: do a book about you know, business.

422
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 7: You know.

423
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's just a bad path.

424
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 7: Man.

425
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 2: Uh.

426
00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 1: Those beans shirts are on sale now, correct, my buddy,

427
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 1: not because this is a listener email. My buddy and

428
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,400
Speaker 1: I are air traffic controllers. I can picture Joe pick

429
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 1: it up in the air traffic tower.

430
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 2: He hates planes.

431
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,119
Speaker 1: My buddyne a air traffic controllers. In our particular tower,

432
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: we prefer to have all the transmissions over the loud speaker,

433
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,199
Speaker 1: as opposed to wearing a headset with earpieces. I can

434
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 1: picture that the problem as he goes on to say,

435
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,199
Speaker 1: is that sometimes the other shift cranks the speaker up

436
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 1: to eleven. So every now and then, the first call

437
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 1: of our shift comes blasting over the speaker so loudly

438
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 1: that I'll hear just loud static and miss a call sign,

439
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 1: pilot request, or other pertinent information.

440
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 2: It's getting thick.

441
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 1: When this happens. I need someone in the back to

442
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 1: tell me what the pilot said while I turned the

443
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: speaker down. He goes on to say, so my proximity

444
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 1: to the speaker hindered my ability to hear the full message.

445
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: Or oh, he's trying to float his own old time

446
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 1: a lot.

447
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:10,199
Speaker 4: I didn't know.

448
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 1: I didn't pre read this. A lot of.

449
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,360
Speaker 7: People have done that, betted it, but.

450
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 6: I didn't read just he just took the bait.

451
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,439
Speaker 1: No, I just took like I'd have so much trust

452
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: in Krin. Now, Steve's got a crisis on his hand,

453
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: all this set up, and here I am stuck, and

454
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: you don't even know if his own damn, this saying.

455
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 9: Better than.

456
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 6: I know exactly where this was going.

457
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: But it's a great saying. Dude, you're gonna dismiss it

458
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: and then you're gonna think about it.

459
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think so.

460
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: Yes, I'll tell you where. I'll tell you what the

461
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: applications are.

462
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 9: I could even into the beans.

463
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 1: Being too near could make things unclear. Now, fresh set

464
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 1: of eyes always find more beans. Has accounting, right, has relevance,

465
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 1: and accounting.

466
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 9: There's also just great imagery that goes along with.

467
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 1: It has relevance and law enforcement. Being too near could

468
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: make things unclear. I think has relevance in parenting when

469
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: it comes to diagnosing health issues. I thought it was

470
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: going to be more literal, like like, oh no, my

471
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: kids just like that.

472
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 2: I was too.

473
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: You just fall asleep out of nowhere. He's always been

474
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: like that, right or no, No, he's just like that.

475
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 1: I don't know what that's all about. Always been like that.

476
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,239
Speaker 1: And some might be like, I think that kid's got

477
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: a major problem, but the parents too near, which makes

478
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: it unclear.

479
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 7: That's like kind of a riff of like missing the

480
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 7: forest for the truth.

481
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 2: Exactly what.

482
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 5: I thought it was a more literal saying too near

483
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 5: to hear, and then it could be that's the saying

484
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 5: no no. I mean I thought that's where he's going

485
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 5: with it. So then you know, at outboard motor there's

486
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 5: all sorts of very narrowly constructed situations in which that

487
00:24:59,280 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 5: would make sense.

488
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 3: Just because it's loud doesn't mean it's legible.

489
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: M Yeah, I like that too. But I also see

490
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: this being applicable in relationships.

491
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 3: Remember John Wayne and said a big mouth don't make

492
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 3: a big man.

493
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 9: Didn't he have a big mouth like the engineer?

494
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 1: The engineered to make things unclear? You got a buddy, yeah,

495
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: and clearly your buddy's husband is a lunatic. The only

496
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: person that doesn't realize it is your buddy.

497
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 6: Yeah.

498
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 1: Being too near it makes things unclear. What episode number

499
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: are we on? Five twenty? Okay, so apologies that we're

500
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: going back to episode four seventeen.

501
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 7: But speaking of air traffic controllers.

502
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: Speaking of air traffic controllers, we had a person on

503
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: the podcast, cj Uh who was a biologist with APHIS

504
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: Animal Plant Inspection Services. They do a lot of predator control,

505
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 1: but a lot of other things that people don't know about, like,

506
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: for instance, keeping stuff off airport runways, so wildlife control

507
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 1: inside airport circles, geese, deer, whatever, deterrent not just lethal

508
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: but also just deterrent habitat modifications. And this woman introduced

509
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: us to a very interesting term, which is when you're

510
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: trying to find out when you have an air collision

511
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: with a bird, there's there's this biological substance. Sometimes you

512
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 1: just you don't know what you're looking at. Something came

513
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: into the jet and spit out their side orders this

514
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: big smear on the windshield and you got a part

515
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 1: of the job. It's like, well, what happened? What was that?

516
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: And she introduced the term, and I thought she was joking,

517
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: but this is the actual term is snarge.

518
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 2: Snarge is just.

519
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: Detritus goo and then you try to find out what

520
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 1: the snarge was from. Uh. Anyways, A dead goose just

521
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: took down a so a medical helicopter. There was fatalities

522
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: how many three? Oh do we know that?

523
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 7: Three or three or four?

524
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: A medical helicopter crash in Oklahoma with multiple fatalities and

525
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: they recovered a dead goose out of that helicopter. I

526
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: think that was what she's saying with the number one bird, right.

527
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think so. I think it is goose. Yeah,

528
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 7: And I know that there have been like a number

529
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 7: of there were landings. I was at the Hudson.

530
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: Flight nurse and a paramedic all killed in a bird strike.

531
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 7: Huh yeah, so it's serious ship.

532
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: Someone wrote in about this. I feel like we should

533
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: I want to do this, but I left my drink

534
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: coasters on my desk.

535
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 7: Oh, like you would read out what's on your drink coasters?

536
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because my drink coasters have are they crucial

537
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: to this?

538
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 7: You can add those to the list, or you're just

539
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 7: saying you don't remember what all of them are.

540
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: It's about bird names. Cale's favorite sect. Just how graphics

541
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: and bird names are. Well, I'll bring I'll bring them

542
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: next time we record.

543
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 3: I like the record to show I have nothing wrong

544
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 3: with bird names.

545
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: No, I know. That's the problem, is like you don't

546
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: have any problem with bird names.

547
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, old names, new names.

548
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 2: I like. Great.

549
00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: But it's that you have expressed that you've expressed feeling

550
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: that there's been a lot of time wasted on the

551
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: thing that is not an issue.

552
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 3: Right, And it's hard for me to draw the parallel

553
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 3: between the change of a bird name and the distruction

554
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 3: of the United States Constitution and the downfall of democracy.

555
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: As we might come in a little hot it up.

556
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: We'll pick it up when I have my drink coasters.

557
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 7: My drink coasters are let's read the guy's note.

558
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: Okay, in support of Steve topic renaming birds and support

559
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: of Steve, here's an idea. If we must rename birds

560
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: to fit some social justice narrative, let's double down on

561
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: the borderline not safe for workplace bird names that already exist.

562
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: And he points out the great tit, Yeah, the blue

563
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: footed booty, Booby, the wood cock, the dick Sissel, and

564
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: then a name Steve. I have drink coasters at my

565
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: neighbor pottery, Pat gave me for my birthday. I think

566
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: a my birthday, my birthday, and it's a coaster and

567
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: in big letters up top it says boobies. But then

568
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: you look and it's all the boobies, bluefooted booby. And

569
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: a big coaster says tits, but it's all the tits. Cocks,

570
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: but it's all the cocks, right?

571
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 6: How many are there?

572
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: I wouldn't send my kid to school with these drink coasters.

573
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: I would go over if your kid, If your kids

574
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: just sit, If your kid did sit down at their

575
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: desk and place a coaster down and then set their drinking,

576
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: it could.

577
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 7: Be an edifying moment for the teacher.

578
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 6: Mm hmmm, mm hmm.

579
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 3: And he'd say something like, what type of cocks do

580
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 3: you enjoy them?

581
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 6: All?

582
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 3: I mean, that's the exact type of thing I would

583
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 3: have been doing in school.

584
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: Uh, let's do one.

585
00:30:59,400 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 2: More, Krinn.

586
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 7: You want to do the Why don't you want to

587
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 7: do the Yeah, let's do that. That's probably better than

588
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 7: the other ones, unless we do the acorn. Mm hm No.

589
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: We already talked about Clay. Peter wants. First, I gotta

590
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: do my little bit that I always do with. I'll

591
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: start Peter wants replaced punks a tawny Phil with a

592
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: coin meaning the gopher, the groundhog that they pull out

593
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: every year, and he sees his shadow and tell you

594
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: the whether his track records horrible.

595
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 6: But he's But.

596
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 3: That's not the I bet that's not their point.

597
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: Well the other point. But the point is why not

598
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: just flip a coin? Yea, this is gonna do is

599
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: just as good of a job as punks tawny Phil,

600
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: and then you don't have to abuse that poor groundhog.

601
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 9: That's their route to where they're getting.

602
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: But they yeah, they specialize at Peter, they specialize in getting.

603
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: It's unintentional. I don't think they do like a well,

604
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: what will they think of next and it gets people

605
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: like me, I get tricked into covering it right, because

606
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: they did do like remember they wanted it for a while.

607
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: Old sayings that seem mean to animals get rid of

608
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: old like more than one way to skin a cat, right,

609
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: And they're like, that's mean. To beat a dead horse, Yeah,

610
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: to beat a dead horse is mean. And then everybody

611
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: in the news and the Fox News they're like, oh

612
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: my god. And I'm like, oh my god. And it

613
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: works and we're all talking about Yeah, we're all talking

614
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: about peda. So the latest move is for them to

615
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: point out that it's mean, that it's mean to punks,

616
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: the tawny.

617
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 9: Phil he's not a meteorology.

618
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: To drag him out, to drag him out and show

619
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: him off to the.

620
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 9: Whole world exploited for tourism.

621
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 2: It's probably mean to drop them like they do.

622
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: Oh they drop them well.

623
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 3: Built later Oh oh no kidding, no, kid, that's great.

624
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 3: It doesn't change my mind about the event. There's enough

625
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 3: shortage of groundhogs.

626
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 9: But yeah, like, like, how.

627
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 3: Dare Peter say that he's not a meteorologist. How do

628
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 3: they know what's going on? How do they stretch so far?

629
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: Well, they say the groundhogs are shy, solitary animals should

630
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: be dragged out and shown off to the whole world.

631
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 3: It looks well, every single one that they hold up

632
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 3: is a chunk monster.

633
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 5: I saw a joke over the weekend that I haven't

634
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 5: been able to stop thinking about. And it's simply that

635
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 5: we haven't applied this concept to enough things. Just grabbing

636
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 5: an animal, pulling it out of its hole, and asking

637
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 5: it unknowable questions about the future.

638
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 6: I haven't been.

639
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 5: Able to stop thinking about that, Like, this is a

640
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 5: very peculiar thing that they just.

641
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 3: Stop groundhog, they need to keep going back.

642
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 5: The line was like owls. Owls have been claiming they're

643
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 5: pretty smart. Let's see them prove it now.

644
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, Peter argued that they should

645
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: wrap it up with punk Satawani Phil and swap it

646
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 1: out for a quote and a matronic version. Oh, I

647
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: get it, a robot equip with artificial intelligence capable of

648
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 1: more accurately predicting the weather. What the strategy is with

649
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 1: with with with Peter and I I'm a I get

650
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: a kick out of Peter. Uh this stuff. I like

651
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: what they're doing is there, You're demonstrating. It's like a

652
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: rhetorical strategy. You demonstrate absurdity by being absurd, so you'd

653
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: be like, here's an absurd solution, and then it hopefully

654
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: makes people go like, yeah, it is really weird. It

655
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: is absurd. Not it's not absurd that you propose we

656
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: stopped doing it, it's absurd that we started doing it

657
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: in the first place. Drag this groundhog.

658
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 9: Out, that's what makes it great.

659
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 1: Drag this groundhog out, show them off to the planet,

660
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: and oh, will the weather be ye. There's probably a

661
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: good history of how many those little buggers they've been

662
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: through over the years.

663
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 3: There's that place in North or South Carolina. I think

664
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,439
Speaker 3: that does the possum drop every New Year's And it's

665
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 3: just like a country store, but they put a postum

666
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 3: in a cage. They bring it up to the top

667
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 3: and they like slowly lower it like the ball dropping,

668
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 3: but it's a there's a live possum in there. No

669
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 3: harm comes to the possum. But that finally fizzled out.

670
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 3: It you know, it got some like some bad press,

671
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 3: but then you know that totally went away because people

672
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 3: lose interest in that stuff. But I think people just

673
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 3: kind of eventually started being like hard to explain this

674
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 3: to people from out of state.

675
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 5: This really, who's looking out for possums these days? You know,

676
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 5: I'm wondering who turned up the heat on.

677
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: That people do because I caught a possum. Uh not

678
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: too long ago. I caught a possum. I was the

679
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 1: Kevin Murphy and I'm holding the possum by the tail,

680
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: and you know, they go into that shock right playing possum.

681
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: Kevin's got all these dogs running around, and first off,

682
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: what people didn't know I saved the possum's life because

683
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: his pack of beagle dogs were set on killing the possum. Okay,

684
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: I picked the possum by it up by the tail,

685
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 1: and he goes into playing possum. I then want to

686
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: deposit the possum in a safe place. So there's all

687
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 1: this grapevine, like an impenetrable mat of grapevine, and I

688
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: lay the possum who's playing possum, up on the mat

689
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: of grapevine, probably five feet off the ground where the

690
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: beagle dogs can't get at it. Meanwhile, we had a

691
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: picture of me holding the possum by his tail like

692
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: I do a gripping grin with the possum, who I'll

693
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: point out is capable of hanging from a limb from

694
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: his tail, and I mentioned how I set him up

695
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: out of the way, or maybe we made a video

696
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,399
Speaker 1: where I set him up out of the way. Either way,

697
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: people point out, now he's gonna you basically killed this

698
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: poor possum because he's gonna fall from that perch.

699
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:07,720
Speaker 2: And die.

700
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: And I saved the possum, and that possum is not

701
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 1: gonna fall off that mat a grapevine because he couldn't

702
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: fall off if he wanted to. Hmmm, he's gonna have

703
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: to walk out of there. So people do look out

704
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: for possums. However, however, miss the line with reality. They

705
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: are they look out for possums.

706
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 3: I got a possum in La wants Coren. I was like, oh,

707
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 3: check this out. That's pretty cool. People didn't think it

708
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 3: was cool.

709
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: There's something about you that, when you can see a possum,

710
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: makes you want to grab by the tail.

711
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a nasty tail, big handle.

712
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: All right, you ready to see J Box?

713
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 2: I'm ready. Yep.

714
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: Uh. You grew up around hunting fishing a little bit,

715
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: I did, ye, What what did it look like in

716
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 1: the in the box household. What did sporting events look

717
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: like for the box household? Sporting events like I'm sorry

718
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 1: and fishing type sports? Oh, I had a Did you

719
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: play sports like organized?

720
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 2: I did? I did. I was a wrestler and a

721
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 2: cross country rider. But uh yeah, it was an It

722
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 2: was a every year we would go deer hunting around

723
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 2: midwest Wyoming. At that point, there weren't that many mule

724
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 2: there there are, you know, like there have been now.

725
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 2: But I grew up. I was thinking about this yesterday.

726
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 2: I was driving up here that I got my first

727
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 2: mule deer at age twelve with my grandfather's twenty five

728
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 2: thirty five saddle car, being that he actually used on

729
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 2: a ranch. Had to shoot it five times, you know,

730
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 2: but and a hundred every year.

731
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: Did you grow up on a ranch?

732
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 2: No? No, I grew up in Casper, But where we

733
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 2: would go would be north of Casper.

734
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: And it wasn't like the good old days from mule

735
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: you're hunting then.

736
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 2: It wasn't that area wasn't that great. But then it

737
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 2: got Then there were more and more, and then I,

738
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 2: you know, started antelope hunting, and I had even in

739
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 2: high school. This is this is you know I'm old.

740
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 2: I sixty five.

741
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, good, thanks sixty five.

742
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 2: All my buddies and I used to have that. We

743
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 2: call it the one Shot Prairie Dog Hunt Club. So

744
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 2: we would actually keep our guns in our lockers in

745
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: high school and as soon as it were wrestling practice

746
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: was out, we'd grab them and go out and shoot

747
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 2: prairie dogs with one shot well no usually the name,

748
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 2: and then cut off their tails, you know. And so

749
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 2: I grew up ran a lot of guns round, a

750
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 2: lot of hunting. I got. You know, I haven't hunted

751
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 2: all my life. I may not even hunt that much

752
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 2: now if it weren't for the fact that I've got

753
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 2: three daughters who give me such a hard time until

754
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 2: they get elk meat. God, they love to serve it,

755
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 2: they love to eat it. They all do their friends over.

756
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 2: Got twins who are thirty four, my youngest is thirty

757
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 2: or almost.

758
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: And I love to all wrapped up on the parenting.

759
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I also love to go to my sons

760
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 2: in law and says with with the meat and say,

761
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 2: because you know your husband's will not provide for you,

762
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 2: I have brought you and.

763
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: I still have to do it. I still have to

764
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: care for my daughter.

765
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:14,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, they love.

766
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: That they're not being adequately supported. What was the what

767
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: was the first inkling you ever had about writing? Like,

768
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: when did you become aware to the when did you

769
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: become aware there was a thing called a writer and

770
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: you know you could be one?

771
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 2: Ah jeez, you know, I think if you're a writer,

772
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 2: I've often, you know, asked that a lot. I think

773
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 2: you're you're hardwired with it or not. I've worked with

774
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 2: people who want to write, but they don't seem hardwired

775
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 2: and it's just never going to work. I I was

776
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 2: going to write one way or another, whether it was

777
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 2: oh yeah, I mean I was writing stories, you know,

778
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 2: in second third grade. I never thought about myself as

779
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 2: a writing a series of books. But I do remember

780
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 2: going to our local library and going down the staff

781
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 2: to the bees to see where my book would be someday.

782
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 2: You know, I knew that I didn't know what it

783
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 2: would be about, but I knew that that's that's some day.

784
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 2: The card catalog is yeah, now you know that. Now

785
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 2: I know if it's there, that means nobody's checked it out.

786
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: So did inventory did your parents emphasize a lot of

787
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 2: reading to you or was that something you found on

788
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 2: your own. My dad did. He used to read to us,

789
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 2: he was a teacher. My mom did not. My mom

790
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 2: always said, even when I had books out, the only

791
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 2: thing she read was cookbooks.

792
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: What'd your dad teach?

793
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 2: He taught third grade, and then he was a principal

794
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 2: for a while, and then he taught fifth grade for

795
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 2: a while. So elementary school teacher.

796
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: Uh so good, honest, good on his middle class Wyoming upbringing. Absolutely, Yep,

797
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: when uh you settled? So you did college to learn journalism?

798
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: Right? Right? I went. I had a scholarship actually to

799
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 2: go to University a Denver in journalism. I was the

800
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 2: editor of a high school newspaper that won a bunch

801
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 2: of national awards, so I could go to a private

802
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 2: school cheaper than I could go to the University of Wyoming.

803
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 6: M.

804
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: And then studied in major and that came out of that.

805
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 2: Yep, they called it mass communications, but it was journalism.

806
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 2: And then my first job was on a weekly newspaper

807
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 2: in Wyoming, and did that for a few years. Then

808
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 2: realized I could make no money being a journalist for

809
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 2: a weekly newspaper, so I had a syndicated column for

810
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 2: a while that was mainly about outdoor stuff and then give.

811
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 1: Me, give me a give me an idea what you'd

812
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: write about.

813
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 2: I would write in your column ice fishing, snowmobiling.

814
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 1: Like the bite's hot down at the local reservoir.

815
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 2: Right, it was like that. I called it far Afield

816
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 2: And I used to, you know, I used to.

817
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: Would you do local profiles?

818
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 2: And yeah, I would you know the guy, the local

819
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 2: guy who type flies and that kind of stuff.

820
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 1: Like that's stay away, gone away man. Yeah, we had

821
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: I can't remember. I wish I could remember his name,

822
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: mark something like. Growing up we had the Mosquite Chronicle

823
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: where I grew up in western Michigan, and there was

824
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: just like the dude I can't remember his name, but

825
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 1: he was like the outdoor columnist. Yeah.

826
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 9: Those outdoor columnists are.

827
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, extinct, and it'd be you know, one week

828
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: could be slaying the white bellies, you know, like the

829
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 1: white bellies are in in the Channel Mouth.

830
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 8: There's still I think the Billings paper still has an

831
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 8: outdoor column pretty sure.

832
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: But people still remember, which is cool. But and I

833
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 2: got to do lots of things, you know, with that

834
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 2: water rafting with the Denver Broncos, you know, that kind

835
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 2: of thing.

836
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: So they give you a salary, and they give you

837
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: a thing like they give you a salary and then

838
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: they say you figure it out, and once a week

839
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: you write an outdoor column.

840
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 2: Right, And but I also covered everything else, you know,

841
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 2: the four eight Champion cow or the you know, I

842
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 2: remember going. I get to meet everybody, billionaires to survivalists,

843
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,439
Speaker 2: you know, and did little columns on all of them.

844
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 2: And that was fun. I got to I think the

845
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 2: best training for the kind of writing I do now

846
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 2: is working at a weekly newspaper where you're forced to

847
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 2: meet everybody. You can't. You've got to get out of

848
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 2: a bubble, got.

849
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 6: It, get to develop a lot of characters right right.

850
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 2: And be comfortable talking to people in all walks of life.

851
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 2: And what I've always found is if you show interest

852
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 2: in what somebody is doing, all of a sudden, they'll

853
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 2: you cannot get them to stop talking. You know, you

854
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 2: show up with a blank notebook and they feel compelled

855
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 2: to fill it. God after a while. Even you know,

856
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 2: people in nuclear facilities and things that I'm doing research,

857
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 2: I show up and they first they're very reticent, and

858
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 2: I start asking them about their job, and nobody has

859
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 2: ever asked them about their job in their lives, and

860
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 2: once they start telling you, then they can't stop. And

861
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 2: and sometimes they've told me how do I take down

862
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 2: a supercomputer center? They tell me step by step, and

863
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 2: I said, that's enough. That's enough. I'm not going to

864
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 2: do this, write this all out in this book.

865
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: When you're doing that, when you're doing that line of work,

866
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: would you try to go in do you try to

867
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 1: go in dumb or do you try to go in

868
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: and sort of establish your your bona fides?

869
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 2: I try to do. I do much some homework so

870
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 2: that I'm not completely off base, but and you know,

871
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 2: I usually have a list, but I try to, like

872
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 2: without we talked earlier about issues in the books. I

873
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 2: always try to talk to people on both sides of

874
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: the issues and then have a character in the books

875
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 2: espouse those so that so that at least it's a

876
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: fair portrayal. It's not always a fair portrayal, but I

877
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 2: try to make it a fair portrayal.

878
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 1: I meant that question more as an interview strategy, meaning

879
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: let's say you developed Let's say you're working on something

880
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: in your old job and you develop something close subject

881
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: matter expertise, and you go to interview somebody. Do you

882
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 1: keep it under wraps that you know the situation pretty

883
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 1: well and present it to them as though they're talking

884
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: to a knucklehead. Or do you like to go in

885
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 1: and say, I'm widely read on this, what's your take.

886
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 2: I don't. I would go in and say I've done

887
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 2: a lot of research on this. Is this true? God?

888
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 2: I did a book called The Highway a few years ago.

889
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 2: It's very creepy. It's about a serial killer truck driver.

890
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 2: And I got together with a pair of drivers from

891
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 2: Montana and we went across the country and I had

892
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 2: a long list of questions I had for them. You know, why,

893
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 2: why why do on truck or forums do they laugh

894
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 2: about Walmart bags on the side of the road, you know,

895
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 2: and the truckers goes because that's what that's what they

896
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 2: crap in and through out the window. So I had

897
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 2: lots of questions about I just need to know are

898
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 2: these things true? And then that opens things up?

899
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: God yeah hmm, now, oh sorry, someone just going to

900
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: say something.

901
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 8: No, but that was something I didn't really need to learn.

902
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 1: You can tell.

903
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 2: That's right.

904
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Next time you had volunteer for your highway

905
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 3: clean up?

906
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 6: Here away from the Walmart bag, be properly prepared.

907
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: What was your next What was your next jump out

908
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: of doing the journalism?

909
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,760
Speaker 2: I started a company. I worked for a while for Uh.

910
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 2: First of all, I worked for Wyoming Tourism, the state agency.

911
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 2: I was a state employee, and I traveled all over

912
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 2: the world. I was in charge of international tourism development.

913
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 2: Really yeah, and saw that it didn't make sense for

914
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 2: a state employee to go out there all over the

915
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 2: world and say, come visit us. I'm a state employee.

916
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 2: So I started a company and included in that company

917
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 2: when we would do overseas things lots of private sector entities, hotels,

918
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 2: Yellowstone Park for five different states in the Rocky Mountains,

919
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 2: and then we had six offices overseas. So for twenty years,

920
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 2: that's what I did.

921
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: Really, what did you do with that? You sold it?

922
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 2: I sold it to employees. Yeah. Once the books started

923
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: making more money than the company did, then I could

924
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 2: step away from the data traveling.

925
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 9: I assume you're you must have been writing books at

926
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 9: the same time I was.

927
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 2: I was writing on airplanes and I remember writing in

928
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 2: a Berlin hotel finishing up a book. You know, that's

929
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 2: so so I have no patience with anybody who says

930
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 2: I'd write a book if I had the time. You know,

931
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 2: I had a company, I had three kids. You know,

932
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 2: I was just trying to write a book a year.

933
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: To that that I have to do it. I love

934
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,439
Speaker 1: hearing those stories because that was not my reality. Man.

935
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: I had like a way different way into it and

936
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: never had to do that. Well, I didn't have to.

937
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 1: I just chose. I didn't have a family or anyth

938
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: when I was starting out as a writer, So I

939
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: just chose to live like way below the power, like

940
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 1: way way below the poverty level in other people's houses

941
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 1: mm hmm. And didn't have a house, so I didn't

942
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 1: have to compete with my own occupation because I didn't

943
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: have a family. Have you ever heard of the not

944
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: He's Dead? Have you ever heard you know, the novels

945
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: Larry Brown?

946
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yes, Larry Brown.

947
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 1: He wrote his first bunch of books at the firebarn.

948
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: He was a fireman. And when everyone else is like

949
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: playing video games and cooking, grilling chicken and throwing horseshoes,

950
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: Larry Brown would be in his bunk writing novels.

951
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 2: That's that hardwired.

952
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: He never learned to type quirty m hm, he said

953
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: he one time I was talking to me, held up

954
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: his two index fingers. He said, I wrote seven novels

955
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: with these two things, and like to bring up Yellowstone.

956
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: So here he's born in. He's a fireman in Oxford, Mississippi,

957
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: had never been anywhere. His first novel he wrote about

958
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: a man eating bear and Yellowstone National Park. Had never

959
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: seen a bear and never been to a Yellowstone National Park.

960
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 1: Wrote that book, and he's like, that method is not

961
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: going to work. So he started writing about the kind

962
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: of stuff he runs into as a fireman. Huh right, yeah,

963
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: And they're kind of people he liked. He liked to

964
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: do that. He lived in the town. When he could,

965
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: he go drinking. When he could, he'd go fishing catfish.

966
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: And so he's like, I guess I'm going to write

967
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: about people that like to do that stuff.

968
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 9: Well.

969
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 2: As a writer and as a reader, I much prefer

970
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 2: novel with a great sense of place, Like you're talking

971
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 2: about what you can tell. You can always tell when

972
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 2: somebody's making up a location. Maybe they've been there on vacation,

973
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 2: maybe they've you know, been through it, but you can

974
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 2: always tell. I always thought when I was writing I

975
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,439
Speaker 2: always want. I want to write from the inside out

976
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 2: as opposed to showing you know. I'm never going to

977
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 2: write an urban novel. It's just like I couldn't do

978
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 2: it authentically, but I can write about the Mountain West

979
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 2: because I can do it from the inside out, and

980
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,399
Speaker 2: people who live here or have been there can say, yeah,

981
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,879
Speaker 2: that rings true, and I think that's for me that's

982
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:09,280
Speaker 2: extremely important.

983
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 1: I can't remember who the comedian was that I was

984
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: recently like, was it Dan? A dude maybe did a

985
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: bit about this, the guy that sper he's been on

986
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: the podcast.

987
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was somebody who moved to Denver, I think,

988
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 7: but we we didn't.

989
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: He's never on the show. There's a comedian and he

990
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: was talking about when TV productions have to deal with

991
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: what a working class person does, and so they're describing

992
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: how like a there's a person investigating this like horrific murder, okay,

993
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: And they go into a bar in the morning to

994
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: interview someone about this horrific murder, and they have them.

995
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 1: The whole time they're answering questions about this horrific murder,

996
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 1: they're continuing to stag beer boxes like they're no way

997
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: gonna was stacking these beer boxes to answer questions about

998
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:08,839
Speaker 1: this like horrific triple hoppicide that they were. Yeah, they're

999
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: rolled up and dude, like I'm picturing he's there in

1000
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: the morning stacking beer boxes or like scenes with tradesmen.

1001
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 1: You know, like no one on that production has ever

1002
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: seen a tradesman doing anything, you know, trying to think

1003
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 1: of what I guess he might have a file filing

1004
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: a piece of wood trade past the liberal red community,

1005
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: liberal red somebody was the liberal redneck talking about when

1006
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: they tried, yeah, TV trying to like portray how TV

1007
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: portrays rednecks. And that's right. He's like, he's the guy

1008
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: that wouldn't stop stacking beer boxes while discussing a triple.

1009
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 2: I like that, and then that's true.

1010
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1011
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: With the with the PR was it PR? Is that

1012
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 1: how you described the PR business?

1013
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 2: It was? It was more marketing really. I mean we

1014
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 2: work with tour operators, travel agents, and then lots of journalists.

1015
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 2: I brought lots of journalists over here to the Rocky

1016
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 2: Mountain West and would take them on We called them

1017
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 2: familiarization tours fam tours. So I got to junk. Yeah,

1018
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: all kinds of every adventure there was. I was there escort,

1019
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 2: so I got to do stuff kind of reminded me

1020
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 2: of you. I think you do what you like best.

1021
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 2: And I was able to do that for years and

1022
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 2: years and years, and was that experiences. Yeah, it was

1023
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 2: still in when I left, it was twenty four years.

1024
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: Old, and I didn't scratch the itch.

1025
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was done traveling. I'd been to Berlin in

1026
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 2: March way too many times. I was ready to settle in.

1027
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 2: And now I get to go on book tours and

1028
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,800
Speaker 2: kind of do this. But I'm the guy who you

1029
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 2: were making.

1030
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 1: You were making, you were making good money, decent, yeah, yeah,

1031
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: and you still.

1032
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 5: Had to be like, I got to be a writer, yep,

1033
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 5: when you were when you were a journalists, did you

1034
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 5: were you writing in your free time? I mean, were

1035
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 5: you still coming up with book ideas and your free timer?

1036
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 6: Sort of?

1037
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 5: When did that transition take place into really working on books?

1038
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 2: You know, I'll say I had like a twenty five

1039
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 2: year overnight success story. I started working on the book

1040
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 2: that became Open Season when I was actually a working

1041
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 2: journalist on the newspaper. But it took all those years, yes,

1042
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 2: to finally get it, and plus doing other things and

1043
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:36,359
Speaker 2: having a family. My daughter's twin daughters, fourteen years old,

1044
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 2: didn't know that I wrote. They knew I had a

1045
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 2: home office. They know I went in there and did stuff,

1046
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 2: But I never wanted them to think my dad the

1047
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 2: failed novelists. So not until I had a not until

1048
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:49,840
Speaker 2: I had a book contract did I tell them that

1049
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 2: I wrote a novel.

1050
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 3: That's amazing.

1051
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 7: Wow.

1052
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: I can picture him later being like, what was your

1053
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 1: dad like, Oh, he's like a failed writer. Yeah, yeah,

1054
00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 1: he tried, nice enough guy.

1055
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1056
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 3: The travel thing in rural Wyoming, you know, it's like

1057
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 3: I knew Wyoming kids in college that like went on

1058
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:12,359
Speaker 3: their first plane ride in college and they're like, oh, hey,

1059
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 3: you know what I did. Yep, this is actually kind

1060
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 3: of a funny story. Buddy mine road tripped home with

1061
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 3: a friend of his to Wyoming. I'm not going to

1062
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 3: say what town because people who know this story.

1063
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:24,360
Speaker 2: Was I'm probably related to it. Yes, exactly.

1064
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, And because our buddy who was driving had to

1065
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 3: make a court appearance and do a little bit of

1066
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 3: jail time on something that had come up earlier on

1067
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 3: as one does, and when he got there, you know,

1068
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 3: it's like your college kids, you're not all that serious

1069
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 3: about stuff. He missed his court appointed deadline and thought like, well,

1070
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 3: I'm here, and they were like, yeah, and you're going

1071
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 3: to be here for the next month now in jail.

1072
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 3: And so that was my other friends first time on

1073
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 3: a plane was his family chipped in and flew him

1074
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 3: back to the University Montana, so you didn't have to Yeah, no, absolutely,

1075
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 3: what uh have you?

1076
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 1: I think of you? Was kind of a political have

1077
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: you are you? Are you political? Do you feel? In

1078
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:16,280
Speaker 1: your writing?

1079
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 2: I have opinions, but I usually try to, like I said,

1080
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 2: try to show both sides a little bit. By the

1081
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 2: choice of what I write about, I think I'm pretty

1082
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 2: much revealing how I think about a lot of things

1083
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 2: by by choosing that topic. Without I never want to

1084
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 2: write agenda books, but you know, I can only think

1085
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 2: of one book where I couldn't. I could not work

1086
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 2: up very much sympathy for the other side, and that

1087
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 2: was when that was based on the Sacket case. The

1088
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 2: e p A that went after a couple in Idaho

1089
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 2: and told them that they had built on a wetlands

1090
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 2: started suing them eighty thousand dollars a day. Not familiar,

1091
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 2: and it went all the way to the Supreme like

1092
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 2: ten years and the Supreme Court knocked them, knocked the

1093
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,320
Speaker 2: EPA down nine zero, which you know how many unanimous

1094
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 2: decisions there are, but it was such harassment of this couple.

1095
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 2: And I speculated in the book why lost nine to zero, Yeah,

1096
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 2: twice with the same couple because they wouldn't stop.

1097
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 1: And yeah, it is hard. Those nine people aren't agree

1098
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 1: on anything, no, because when they know, even when they know,

1099
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: oftentimes they'll do a descent just to like articulate a

1100
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: dissenting view. Do you I mean, like if you knew,

1101
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 1: like if a Supreme Court member knew something was going

1102
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: to be, like if they knew somehow it was four

1103
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 1: to four and they have a deciding vote, that's a

1104
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: different vote for them, then it's going to be like

1105
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: seven to two. If it's seven to two, I can

1106
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 1: take almost like a Devil's Advocate approach and point out

1107
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: they out some concerns or yeah, so for something to

1108
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: fall nine zero is yeah, yeah, I've never heard of

1109
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: this one.

1110
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I look that up Sacket versus EPA. And

1111
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,439
Speaker 2: in the book I speculated at the end why these

1112
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 2: agencies were going after this couple, And my speculation turned

1113
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 2: out to be true, and it was a private It

1114
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 2: was an individual who was an ex federal employee who

1115
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 2: didn't like his view blocked by this house, but he

1116
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 2: knew which buttons to push, and I just thought, well,

1117
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 2: that kind of And then when I found out that

1118
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 2: was true, I felt quite pretient.

1119
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 3: A personal connected vendetta, Uh huh can do a lot

1120
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 3: of damage.

1121
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, When did you walk through hitting on picket,

1122
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 1: you know, like like what work you were doing? And

1123
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: then when did you say like, well I need to

1124
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: do a or maybe you didn't intend it this way.

1125
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 1: I'm assuming you intended that you would find a character

1126
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: that you could serialize.

1127
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 2: No, I did not intend it. I was just I

1128
00:58:55,760 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 2: was writing about the Endangered Species Act and the blackfooted ferrets,

1129
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 2: and I fictionalized them into creatures called Miller's weasels that

1130
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 2: were found and at the time I was working on.

1131
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 1: Pause from it and tell me why why why didn't

1132
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 1: it work as blackfoot a fair because and then to

1133
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 1: be too connected to the reaction.

1134
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 2: Right, And I didn't want to actually use the species

1135
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 2: because I wanted to give them my own characteristic.

1136
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 1: Because then it would be that you had gotten it wrong.

1137
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 2: It is funny though, over the time, I still hear

1138
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 2: from people to say, I look that up and there

1139
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 2: is no such thing. Yeah. But when I was working

1140
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 2: on that, the idea for this, doing the research that

1141
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 2: going to MATEITSI learning it. I was doing ride alongs

1142
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 2: with the local game warden and going to his.

1143
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 1: House for this research or as your other job.

1144
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 2: As I was working as my other job, working for

1145
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 2: the newspaper, and saw that his you know, state owned home,

1146
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 2: his kids running around, his wife answering the phone, acting

1147
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 2: at unpaid secretary receptionist, and the game warden lifestyle. You

1148
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 2: know there's in Wyoming. There's only fifty of them. They're

1149
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 2: very heavily armed, you know. They The guy I was

1150
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 2: with mid the point that no other law enforcement officer

1151
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 2: is more likely to encounter armed people than a game

1152
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 2: warden in the West. And then and then it would

1153
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 2: amaze me how autonomous they really were. I met a

1154
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 2: couple of game wardens in Wyoming, old time ones who

1155
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 2: had never been to Cheyenne in their lives, and they

1156
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 2: would never go, never been to Capital City, that's right,

1157
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 2: and they would if they had to go. They were

1158
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 2: going to quit. So they ran there. They ran their districts.

1159
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: It's like going to their own state cabinal.

1160
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 2: So I just found it fast a fascinating thing. And

1161
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 2: that plus I grew up being a little bit scared

1162
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 2: of the local game warden who used to come to

1163
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 2: our school in Casper, Wyoming with a little spinning rod

1164
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 2: with a rubber ball on the end and if kids

1165
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 2: weren't paying attention to just shoot it across the room

1166
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 2: and bounce it off your forehead.

1167
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 9: Oh, I might use that at home.

1168
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 1: Why was a game warden visiting school to talk to

1169
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 1: you guys? Because he's investigating students.

1170
01:00:57,480 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 2: No, he would say things like, why you're here in

1171
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 2: this place? You listen to your teachers and your parents.

1172
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 2: If you go outside, I'm your boss. You know you

1173
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 2: have to answer to me. And he's.

1174
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: He's like going right to the source, that's right, and

1175
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 1: he uh, he was famous spent. I'll spend my whole

1176
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 1: career writing citations that.

1177
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 5: Before you stray from the straight and arrow, he's got

1178
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 5: to get there and deliver his message.

1179
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 2: And he arrested me for a hunting shooting doves off

1180
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 2: power lines when I was in college, but he let

1181
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:34,920
Speaker 2: me go because I was in college, so I have

1182
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 2: on a good path. And he showed me that where

1183
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 2: he had arrested Dick Cheney for fishing out of season,

1184
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 2: same guy in Casper, Wyoming. And I when I visited

1185
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 2: Cheney in the White House a few years later because

1186
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 2: his wife was a fan, and all we did was

1187
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 2: talk about this game board and who arrested us both.

1188
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 2: That's amazing, no kidding, Yeah, huh.

1189
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 1: I never heard of that about Dick Cheney did get

1190
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 1: a lot of but probably got a lot of media. Well,

1191
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 1: he's like in the wrong. He's the creek that was

1192
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 1: closed or something.

1193
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 2: I don't know, because there really aren't fishing seasons, so

1194
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 2: I don't understand that unless it was some specialized area.

1195
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 6: Fishing with bait or something.

1196
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 9: Could have been a spawning closure.

1197
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 2: Who knows.

1198
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 1: So then you I got you sidetracked. But you're talking

1199
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: about the development of running with the serial character. So

1200
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 1: you started building this character for your es A Miller's

1201
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: Weasel Guy.

1202
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 2: I wrote a book. I had it for five years

1203
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:36,920
Speaker 2: before a publisher really bought it. It was Penguin Putnam,

1204
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,440
Speaker 2: which is a big publisher, and when they made the

1205
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 2: offer the contract, they wanted two more books with Joe Pickett,

1206
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 2: so they made.

1207
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 1: The offer off a completed manuscript.

1208
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 2: Correct, yep. And then they wanted two more. Can you

1209
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 2: do this? They said, And I said, of course.

1210
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 1: So they were. They were they were going to roll

1211
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 1: on it before they even saw how it worked.

1212
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:02,240
Speaker 2: Well, they knew that series, I mean series work. You know,

1213
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 2: it's because it's a it's a pyramid scheme in a way.

1214
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 2: You know, if somebody might pick up book number twenty

1215
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 2: four and really like it and say, I gotta go

1216
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:12,920
Speaker 2: get all of them to get up to this point.

1217
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 2: Happens with every hardcover book that comes out, all of mine,

1218
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 2: the back list. They call it all go, you know,

1219
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 2: all get sold.

1220
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 1: I mean here they ever throw they ever use the

1221
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 1: term the halo effect on you.

1222
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 2: I've not heard the halo effect, but I can say

1223
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 2: when the when this there was publicity for the current book,

1224
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 2: and then twenty four year old Open Season appeared on

1225
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 2: some bestseller lists around the real country last week. Wow,

1226
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 2: So it's that kind of thing.

1227
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 8: Did you start him out like as a rookie? Like

1228
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 8: has he aged in his career?

1229
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 2: Yes?

1230
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 8: Like, because he's got a had a long career, ye, distinguished.

1231
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 2: That's one thing about the books is unusual from a

1232
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 2: lot of series that everybody ages in real time, right,

1233
01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:59,959
Speaker 2: so his daughter shared in the book number one seven

1234
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 2: years old.

1235
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, like a lot of the polespionage guys, like there's

1236
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 8: just like badass espion.

1237
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 5: Old.

1238
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Sean Connery's out. We got to bring

1239
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: in Whoever's next?

1240
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 3: Is this because you have several recurring characters, but obviously

1241
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 3: the main one is the most is the deepest, right,

1242
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 3: But is it like at this point having like a

1243
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 3: family member, like you know so much about him and

1244
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 3: how he would react to things like you just like

1245
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 3: you know, well, he doesn't like flying on plants, right, right,

1246
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 3: But and I'm sure he doesn't like certain foods. You

1247
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 3: only drinks certain beer, he only has certain you know,

1248
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 3: He's got all these little idiosyncrasies. So is it how

1249
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 3: close to reality is this fictional character for you?

1250
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 2: Not that close to reality? I mean, But because I

1251
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 2: was a state employee, and because I've hung out with

1252
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 2: game wardens and I and I had this idea for

1253
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 2: the kind of perfect Western, iconic kind of guy Joe,

1254
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 2: and I named Joe. I thought average Joe, and the

1255
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 2: picket came from a shy in Frontier days, first first champion,

1256
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:12,959
Speaker 2: So I just I had an idea for a guy.

1257
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 2: A story about that. A few years ago, I was

1258
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 2: in New York on a book tour and my publicist

1259
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:23,800
Speaker 2: heard from this woman who said it was turned out

1260
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:28,520
Speaker 2: to be Gary Cooper's only daughter. So he spent a

1261
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 2: lot of time in on Tana had read the book

1262
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:32,919
Speaker 2: and thought I was channeling Gary Cooper in some way,

1263
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 2: and we went and had lunch together, and she was fascinating,

1264
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 2: told me about bird hunting with Ernest Hemingway and her

1265
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 2: dad growing up and now she's living in New York.

1266
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 2: But she's sure that I channeled Joe Picket into Gary Cooper.

1267
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 2: And you know, who was I to say? I didn't

1268
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 2: you know, I wasn't going to argue with her. But

1269
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 2: it's average character.

1270
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's like the beauty of an average character, right,

1271
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 3: Like it hits a lot of those points with a

1272
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 3: lot of different people. They recognize things, or there's in

1273
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 3: their family members or people that they know or people

1274
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 3: that they want.

1275
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 2: To be and he screws up.

1276
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:11,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not a blowhard no here, He's not

1277
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 1: like dirty Harry or something. You know, right, He's not

1278
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: tell me, but.

1279
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 2: I think it. I always think it increases the tension

1280
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 2: because you think he might just screw up again. Yeah,

1281
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 2: you're never here, just not gonna win everyone.

1282
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 1: When they when the publisher came to you and they

1283
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 1: were gonna they're they're like, okay, we'll take this one.

1284
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 1: Did they did? Did they make you do like a

1285
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 1: one pager or a one liner about what the other

1286
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 1: plot lines would be, or they just they trusted you.

1287
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 2: No, No, they wanted it. They wanted some descriptions. And

1288
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 2: then and I had written a couple of manuscripts before

1289
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 2: the one was published that weren't very good, but the

1290
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 2: plots were okay, the subject matter was okay. So I

1291
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 2: just made those Joe Pickott books and said, Okay, the

1292
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 2: next one's about, you know, a canyon crossing of a canyon,

1293
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 2: and the next one takes place in the winter, and

1294
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 2: it's about federal a crazy federal land manager. So they

1295
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 2: bought into that. And then I then I went, but

1296
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:12,360
Speaker 2: I've never been overseen what are you gonna write?

1297
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 1: Never?

1298
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 2: Really. And the other thing that I've been shocked by

1299
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 2: over the years is I've never had anyone at New

1300
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 2: York Publishing say I wish you wouldn't touch that subject.

1301
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 1: Oh that's that's never happened that that's like a myth.

1302
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 2: Man it is.

1303
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 1: I think so it's like a myth.

1304
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 2: I think we know some of the same people in publishing.

1305
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 2: We can talk about that, but none of them. They

1306
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 2: always say they want it to be more authentic, not

1307
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:37,479
Speaker 2: that they want me to please them.

1308
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I never it's it's a thing that it's like

1309
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 1: such a thing in movies and stuff or you know,

1310
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 1: the sort of this sort of guiding hand. And I'm

1311
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 1: sure it exists in some aspects, like I've encountered it

1312
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 1: in some aspects, in some areas of media, I've absolutely

1313
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 1: encountered it. I've not encountered it in book publishing.

1314
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:56,360
Speaker 2: I haven't either.

1315
01:07:56,720 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: I think there's still it's like a it's like a

1316
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:03,960
Speaker 1: it is beat up as book publishing has been, you know,

1317
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 1: with with changes in technology and how people like, how

1318
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 1: people use media and what they do, and how much

1319
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:14,960
Speaker 1: it's had to change, there's still is a within that industry.

1320
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:18,679
Speaker 1: There still is a sense of higher calling, a sense

1321
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 1: of purpose, a sense of free exchange of ideas, and

1322
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 1: they're just not as scared as other people.

1323
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 2: I think so. I think that's true. I think there

1324
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:30,400
Speaker 2: are exceptions, and I hear about things sometimes, but I've

1325
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:34,320
Speaker 2: never personally run again, run up. I've had a couple

1326
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 2: of copy editors who at times anonymous copy editors who

1327
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:38,600
Speaker 2: write that.

1328
01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:41,839
Speaker 1: Little digs from copy editor.

1329
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:45,599
Speaker 2: That's what I got. I get that, you know. I

1330
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,639
Speaker 2: remember getting an argument with one where I could because

1331
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:53,240
Speaker 2: us I used the term Indian for Indian Country News,

1332
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:56,640
Speaker 2: which is a real newspaper done in South Dakota, and

1333
01:08:56,680 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 2: they change the name to Native American News, and I said, no,

1334
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:02,760
Speaker 2: that's what they call it. The people who write the

1335
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 2: newspaper who live.

1336
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:07,759
Speaker 1: On the res So funny because that's the copy editor digs.

1337
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 1: That's the digs we'll get from copy editors where they'll

1338
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:14,080
Speaker 1: kind of do they like to do. They do their

1339
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 1: normal work, which is great, and then they'll do little

1340
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:17,720
Speaker 1: gotcha's yep yep.

1341
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 6: You know they're testing you're wrong, you think about this wrong, and.

1342
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 1: You kind of want to be like, listen, buddy, I

1343
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:28,839
Speaker 1: have a lot lane, I have a lot of years

1344
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 1: in this area. And that's the word I'm using.

1345
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 5: Given that you didn't envision this as a series. What

1346
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 5: was the day like when they said we want this

1347
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 5: and two more? I mean, was that just like a

1348
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 5: shock to you or had the idea been floated. I'm

1349
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 5: just sort of wondering what day, what was that day

1350
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:51,920
Speaker 5: like in your life as like a you know, a writer.

1351
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,160
Speaker 2: And I was at an international travel trade show.

1352
01:09:56,880 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 9: It was Berlin.

1353
01:09:58,120 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 2: I was surrounded by all my clients.

1354
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 1: The publisher calls, I'm gonna have to call you back, yeah.

1355
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:05,639
Speaker 2: And I was just beside myself, you know, and none

1356
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:08,080
Speaker 2: of them understood, none of them knew I wrote. And

1357
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:09,720
Speaker 2: I am going on and on about, you know, a

1358
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 2: three book deal with with.

1359
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:13,120
Speaker 1: Puttnam and a real publisher.

1360
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:17,599
Speaker 2: And I thought they called Chuck finally lost. Yeah, that's right, that's.

1361
01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 5: Kind of like beyond what you could have hoped for, right, oh, yes,

1362
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:20,800
Speaker 5: by far.

1363
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially because the book had been done for five

1364
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 2: years before anything happened.

1365
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:28,360
Speaker 1: Well, that'd be especially cool to get money for something

1366
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 1: you'd already done. It's not getting money I got to do,

1367
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:34,000
Speaker 1: got to do it well, No publishers never taking the money.

1368
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:35,240
Speaker 1: But I knew I had to do all that work.

1369
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:37,760
Speaker 2: No publisher is going to take a first novel on

1370
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:40,639
Speaker 2: spec I mean, you have to have that book done

1371
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 2: and polished. Yeah, and it's just not going to happen yeah.

1372
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:47,320
Speaker 1: For novels, sure, yeah, because you can't rely on the

1373
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:48,080
Speaker 1: concept to sell it.

1374
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 2: So I'll tell you a quick story about that first

1375
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 2: novel because I, I, my wife thought it was good enough.

1376
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:55,920
Speaker 2: Why didn't the publishers? You know? But I had an

1377
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:58,640
Speaker 2: agent in the New York. It's this pre internet, pre

1378
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:01,479
Speaker 2: email all of that. I'd gotten the name of an

1379
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:04,200
Speaker 2: agent and I sent him physically send him the manuscript,

1380
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:08,720
Speaker 2: and a year after year, I would like, yeah, and

1381
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 2: he goes, what's that?

1382
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 1: Can you say who the agent was?

1383
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:14,040
Speaker 2: He's dead, so I don't want to say his name

1384
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:18,680
Speaker 2: multipell you later, but uh, he gets real, you know,

1385
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 2: real New York. If you live, you'd want to say it, mate,

1386
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 2: I would, because.

1387
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:27,240
Speaker 1: I'll say stuff about dead people that I wouldn't say

1388
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:27,679
Speaker 1: about life.

1389
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 2: Well, he'd say, you know, it's digital market for it.

1390
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:33,840
Speaker 2: It's not really traditional. It takes liice in a weird

1391
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 2: part of the country. I'll let you know if something happens.

1392
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 2: And I didn't know how the business worked. I waited

1393
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:42,519
Speaker 2: for four years and then I finally went to a

1394
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:46,800
Speaker 2: uh conference where you pitch your book, and I was

1395
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:50,599
Speaker 2: I went in Denver, Colorado, and I pitched it to this.

1396
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:53,040
Speaker 2: What was the agent. It's called the Rocky Mountain Fiction

1397
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:56,640
Speaker 2: Writers Conference, and I pitched the name of it, and

1398
01:11:56,680 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 2: you know, this is what happens. And the agent said,

1399
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 2: I'm kind of interested in that. Do you have an agent?

1400
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:02,720
Speaker 2: And I said yeah, and he said who is it?

1401
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 2: And I told him his name. He goes, you don't

1402
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 2: know he's dead, do you?

1403
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:06,559
Speaker 6: Oh my god?

1404
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:10,000
Speaker 2: It had been dead for eighteen months.

1405
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:14,280
Speaker 5: Kid, this is like a bad novel about him in

1406
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 5: aspiring writer.

1407
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 2: Nobody from the agency let me know.

1408
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 3: And it's a low ceiling, shitty hotel ballroom that you

1409
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:24,000
Speaker 3: guys are walking from fold up table to fold.

1410
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:27,400
Speaker 2: Up exactly exactly. And then the word got around this thing,

1411
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 2: this guy from Wyoming with his dead agent, and twenty

1412
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 2: four editor from Putnam was there and she had the

1413
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 2: right to acquire books for the first time. So I

1414
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 2: had an editor before I had an agent. Then I

1415
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:47,640
Speaker 2: had to go get one, you know, a live one.

1416
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:49,120
Speaker 2: After that.

1417
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:53,439
Speaker 1: You're kidding me, no, like, buy of your agent's dead.

1418
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 1: But I'm interested in the book, and let's get you

1419
01:12:56,120 --> 01:12:58,960
Speaker 1: set up with a live agent to ink the deal.

1420
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:01,839
Speaker 3: Well, this is her first first time having the authority

1421
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:02,240
Speaker 3: to do this.

1422
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:04,000
Speaker 2: Did you catch it. Yeah, she wasn't the one I

1423
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 2: pitched you. She's the one who heard it over drinks

1424
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 2: in the bar that night and she reached out.

1425
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 3: Did she slide in? And she goes, you know, the

1426
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:12,760
Speaker 3: company's paying for these drinks and stuff too.

1427
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:16,439
Speaker 2: It's I didn't meet her. It came later at the time.

1428
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 1: Did that editor wind up having some good success? She stuck.

1429
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 2: She stuck with it, I think through six books and

1430
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 2: then she left publishing. But she did. She was my

1431
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:26,960
Speaker 2: editor for my first six books.

1432
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:28,800
Speaker 5: You know, I would have published a novel if my

1433
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:31,720
Speaker 5: if I had realized my agent was dead, you know.

1434
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:35,040
Speaker 1: Rand That's maybe that's what happened to me.

1435
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:39,519
Speaker 6: I make a couple of phone calls, spent ten years.

1436
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:46,760
Speaker 1: Uh, I'm trying to get to like the next one.

1437
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 1: I'm still kind of held up on that little story.

1438
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:50,919
Speaker 1: That's like a that's like a it's like a comedy.

1439
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:54,880
Speaker 2: It is bad, really bad comedy. Yeah, and again it

1440
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:57,080
Speaker 2: just seems to seem so long ago. But I mean,

1441
01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 2: there was no internet. I couldn't look him up. I

1442
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 2: couldn't say, oh, oh, there's my agent's obituary. I didn't know,

1443
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:06,840
Speaker 2: so I just he kept saying quit calling me and

1444
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:11,840
Speaker 2: I did. How long you've been married forty years soon

1445
01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:12,719
Speaker 2: to be forty years?

1446
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 1: What's your wife think about all this? Does she think

1447
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:16,320
Speaker 1: did she used to think you were nuts? Or does

1448
01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:17,760
Speaker 1: she think you got what you deserve now?

1449
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:21,280
Speaker 2: She has always been very supportive. She's a better reader

1450
01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 2: than I am, reads more widely, really good editor. She's

1451
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:27,040
Speaker 2: the one who gets the manuscript first. She was the

1452
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 2: one who finally said, I think this book's good enough

1453
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:32,600
Speaker 2: to go out there. So she's always been very supportive.

1454
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:35,840
Speaker 2: My daughters are as well. They get the first. They

1455
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:39,599
Speaker 2: get the manuscript first before anybody else does, all four

1456
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:42,120
Speaker 2: of them, and they write up their notes to me,

1457
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:45,280
Speaker 2: and sometimes they're kind of cruel, and then I go

1458
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:45,680
Speaker 2: from there.

1459
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:47,880
Speaker 1: So family business.

1460
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 5: Did they discuss it together behind your back and then

1461
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:51,439
Speaker 5: come to it their.

1462
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 2: Not behind my back? They all have their own takes.

1463
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:59,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. When my like, if my wife looks

1464
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:08,320
Speaker 1: at stuff I produce, it's like completely critical. There's no like,

1465
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 1: oh that's.

1466
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:13,320
Speaker 3: Cute and maybe something based in last week's argument about

1467
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:14,480
Speaker 3: something totally.

1468
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:17,960
Speaker 2: Well, I don't want to see my watch completely critical.

1469
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:20,400
Speaker 2: But we have had discussions when she's going over the manuscript.

1470
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:22,639
Speaker 2: We're all kind of say, you know, you could tell

1471
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 2: me that you like something, sure, you know, as opposed

1472
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:28,360
Speaker 2: to she said, she's bitter about that.

1473
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 1: But she's doing business.

1474
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 2: Little she reads, she's doing Yeah, that's nice turn of

1475
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:36,519
Speaker 2: free How many how many of your how many of

1476
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:39,080
Speaker 2: your projects have you optioned for film and TV?

1477
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:40,360
Speaker 6: Well?

1478
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:44,600
Speaker 2: Actually all of them? I mean the Joe Pickett was

1479
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 2: has been a TV series now two seasons on Paramount Plus.

1480
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 2: It has not been renewed for a third season. But

1481
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:54,880
Speaker 2: it's really complicated about the ownership on it, which has

1482
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:57,800
Speaker 2: nothing to do with me. And then Big Sky was

1483
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:01,160
Speaker 2: based on my other set of charricter and that was

1484
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:02,759
Speaker 2: on for three years on ABC.

1485
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:08,040
Speaker 1: So when you do them, it's not like it's not

1486
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:11,479
Speaker 1: your whole body of work. It's one offs.

1487
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 2: No, when they when they.

1488
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 1: I mean you're like all the whole have you have

1489
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 1: you made a deal for the whole CJ Box thing?

1490
01:16:18,360 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 1: Or is it just you do like individual pieces They

1491
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 1: bought Pickett in.

1492
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:25,920
Speaker 2: General in general. Yeah, they they actually name each book,

1493
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:28,799
Speaker 2: you know, with the characters within.

1494
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:30,799
Speaker 9: It, with the with the TV.

1495
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:34,840
Speaker 8: Like you you were talking about how you've had total autonomy,

1496
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 8: like writing what's the experience been in TV? Like have

1497
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 8: you Because you hear a lot of writers like, oh,

1498
01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:45,360
Speaker 8: you know, I I want to just completely take my

1499
01:16:45,439 --> 01:16:49,320
Speaker 8: name away from that vert that television version, and other

1500
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:52,400
Speaker 8: authors that are involved with the TV show may not

1501
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:55,000
Speaker 8: have that same opinion, like where where have you land?

1502
01:16:55,080 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 1: It?

1503
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:57,160
Speaker 2: Really, you know, it really depends on the producers of

1504
01:16:57,200 --> 01:17:01,160
Speaker 2: the TV show itself. It's so different with everyone. People

1505
01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:04,679
Speaker 2: on Joe Pickett were completely different than people on Big

1506
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:09,639
Speaker 2: Sky in their approach there. I always felt on Big

1507
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 2: Sky they just wanted to go their own direction with

1508
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:16,360
Speaker 2: the character names. Basically, after two seasons, they had a

1509
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:21,960
Speaker 2: conference call with all their writers and the executive producer saying, Chuck,

1510
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:24,800
Speaker 2: can you give them some ideas? And I held up

1511
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,840
Speaker 2: the book and I said, why don't you read this? Yeah,

1512
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:30,800
Speaker 2: here's a whole book full of ideas. And it didn't

1513
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:34,360
Speaker 2: go over very well. But whereas so you just kind of.

1514
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:37,840
Speaker 9: Gotta like be okay with you have to.

1515
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 2: I'm you know, it's it's too frustrating to be on

1516
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:45,880
Speaker 2: the set I found. You know, when you hear when

1517
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:50,320
Speaker 2: you hear an actress who a character you created say

1518
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 2: my character would never say this. I heard that in

1519
01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:57,960
Speaker 2: the hair headphones, and I thought, lady, I made you,

1520
01:17:58,000 --> 01:17:59,679
Speaker 2: I could take you out your character.

1521
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:03,599
Speaker 3: Oh it turns out you get in a car wreck.

1522
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:05,839
Speaker 6: Your character literally said this already.

1523
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:09,240
Speaker 2: Yes, But whereas on the Joe Pickett series, they were

1524
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:11,720
Speaker 2: a lot closer to the books very much. There's a

1525
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:13,400
Speaker 2: lot of lines that came out of the books. I'd

1526
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:16,360
Speaker 2: really pleased with that, But again, I didn't want to

1527
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:17,320
Speaker 2: be in the set every day.

1528
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:19,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, would you have been, well, come on the set

1529
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:22,400
Speaker 1: every day on the Yeah, I mean they're all they're

1530
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:26,360
Speaker 1: all very friendly, you know, but I feel like I'm

1531
01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:28,479
Speaker 1: in the way and you just sit in the back

1532
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:31,520
Speaker 1: room and watch the same scene thirty five.

1533
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:34,720
Speaker 2: Times, and I'm you know, I I would go to

1534
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 2: visit for three days and leave after one.

1535
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:40,640
Speaker 1: The one writer I've talked to and had on that

1536
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:43,160
Speaker 1: really liked it and had a really great experience with

1537
01:18:43,200 --> 01:18:46,360
Speaker 1: the whole thing is talking Jack car the team he

1538
01:18:46,439 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 1: wound up working with from as expressed from him when

1539
01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:55,080
Speaker 1: we talk about the team he wound up really working on,

1540
01:18:55,240 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 1: Like would defer to his judgment, right, So he must

1541
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:01,720
Speaker 1: have been on the set, yeah, well, very involved, like

1542
01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:04,760
Speaker 1: very involved in the scripting you know, you're always like

1543
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:07,200
Speaker 1: trying to smooth things out and quicken things and cut

1544
01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:11,120
Speaker 1: things and get somewhere quicker. Right, very involved in that,

1545
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 1: very involved, and like, no, he wouldn't do it that way,

1546
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:15,200
Speaker 1: He'd do it this way.

1547
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:15,560
Speaker 6: That's it.

1548
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:17,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it came away with a good experience. But man,

1549
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:20,360
Speaker 1: most people, you most people, most writers, when you get

1550
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:25,080
Speaker 1: into that, uh, they come away feeling burned. I brought

1551
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 1: up with Jack card it's a great quote from John

1552
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:31,000
Speaker 1: Lockrea Lacar. Where's he go? By Lacar?

1553
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:32,879
Speaker 2: I've always I think it's Lockay.

1554
01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:35,800
Speaker 1: I think he said watching your novel turn into a

1555
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:39,080
Speaker 1: movie is like watching an oxen turned into a bowllyon

1556
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:45,599
Speaker 1: cube and uh, and he that was not Jack Carr's experience. Man,

1557
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:47,639
Speaker 1: so it's nice to hear from someone that liked it.

1558
01:19:47,280 --> 01:19:49,160
Speaker 2: It's really and and like I said, I had two

1559
01:19:49,160 --> 01:19:51,759
Speaker 2: different experiences, you know, when one set was really great

1560
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:54,920
Speaker 2: and they went were more more closer to the books,

1561
01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:58,680
Speaker 2: the other one wasn't. It's but you know, people, I'm

1562
01:19:58,720 --> 01:20:01,519
Speaker 2: an executive producer on both shows, and the people that

1563
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 2: what does that mean? And I would say that means

1564
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:06,599
Speaker 2: I provide the source material and I cash the check.

1565
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:07,400
Speaker 2: That's all.

1566
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:11,800
Speaker 1: That's just that that title, while it seems great, you

1567
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:17,320
Speaker 1: should just talk to listeners. Executive producer. Take that with

1568
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:20,599
Speaker 1: a grain of salt. It could mean that they were

1569
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:25,280
Speaker 1: in there just battling and fighting and like finding the

1570
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:28,640
Speaker 1: money and cultivating the idea and bled for it and

1571
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:30,760
Speaker 1: took bullets for it. Or it could mean that it

1572
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:31,719
Speaker 1: was already made.

1573
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:33,599
Speaker 6: They were copied on the email it was.

1574
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:35,640
Speaker 1: Already made, and they're like, oh yeah, I'll sign on

1575
01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:40,120
Speaker 1: to that. It's it's just it's the most It's sort

1576
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:43,519
Speaker 1: of like it's the most. It's the title that gets

1577
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 1: the most attention, that is subject to the greatest amount

1578
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:50,880
Speaker 1: of contextual understanding to know what in the hell that means,

1579
01:20:51,320 --> 01:20:53,880
Speaker 1: because it could mean anywhere from everything to nothing, but

1580
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:55,880
Speaker 1: it still says executive producer.

1581
01:20:56,240 --> 01:20:59,439
Speaker 2: I've also noticed the executive producer sometimes changed from episode

1582
01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 2: to episod out, So I think there's just favors being

1583
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:06,320
Speaker 2: paid back. Who these people are?

1584
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 9: Your books?

1585
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:19,200
Speaker 8: The Joe Pickett books deal a lot with hunters and wildlife,

1586
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:23,559
Speaker 8: which is something Hollywood like consistently screws up.

1587
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:26,880
Speaker 9: Why like why can't they get it right?

1588
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:29,719
Speaker 8: Like what like is it just like the people don't

1589
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:32,439
Speaker 8: bother to do the like right kind of like they

1590
01:21:32,479 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 8: get cops pretty good in Hollywood, right, A lot of a.

1591
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:38,679
Speaker 2: Lot of cops wouldn't disagree. But yeah, right.

1592
01:21:39,240 --> 01:21:42,680
Speaker 8: But I'm just wondering, what like when when you're the

1593
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:44,800
Speaker 8: shows that were made from your books have had to

1594
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:46,400
Speaker 8: deal with hunters or wildlife?

1595
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:49,800
Speaker 1: What's your you know what? Bro he just you know

1596
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:54,479
Speaker 1: what he just did where he just committed was what's

1597
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:58,080
Speaker 1: that that two names? I was real hot on it

1598
01:21:58,120 --> 01:22:03,240
Speaker 1: for a while. It's not Max Plank, that's the research institute.

1599
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:04,519
Speaker 7: I know Max Plank.

1600
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:10,360
Speaker 1: No Max Plant It's uh uh, it's the two names.

1601
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 1: It comes from two journalists.

1602
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:18,719
Speaker 7: And it describes like a cert.

1603
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:23,400
Speaker 1: It describes when you are a subject matter expert. Brody

1604
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:28,720
Speaker 1: just did it. Brody's the subject matter expert hunting. He

1605
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 1: watches media portrayals of hunting. Oh, jeil Man amnesia.

1606
01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:35,759
Speaker 7: Oh yeah right, Oh, it's been a number of episodes.

1607
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:42,280
Speaker 1: He just did jel Man amnesia. It's this, This is

1608
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:45,679
Speaker 1: the perfect test case for jail man amnesia. Brody's subject

1609
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:48,680
Speaker 1: matter expert hunting. He watches movies and he sees they

1610
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:53,280
Speaker 1: always get hunting wrong, or animals or what Okay, he goes,

1611
01:22:53,320 --> 01:22:55,360
Speaker 1: but then he says this, But with cops, they get

1612
01:22:55,400 --> 01:23:00,280
Speaker 1: it right. Jail man amnesia is when you watch something

1613
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:02,800
Speaker 1: as a subject matter expert and you realize how wrong

1614
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:06,000
Speaker 1: it always is, and then you forget that and you

1615
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 1: think that they're right about the other stuff you don't

1616
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 1: know enough about to know what they're wrong. Meaning if

1617
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:16,040
Speaker 1: I read an article on let's say I read an

1618
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:20,320
Speaker 1: article on grizzly Bear dealer, I go to the New

1619
01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:23,040
Speaker 1: York Times, I read an article on grizzly Bear delisting.

1620
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:26,000
Speaker 9: You're taking a long time to get where you're going.

1621
01:23:26,120 --> 01:23:31,040
Speaker 1: Well, no, what's taking a long time? I read it,

1622
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:34,639
Speaker 1: and I'm like, that's really not a great job, right,

1623
01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:37,479
Speaker 1: they missed this, They missed that, they misrepresented this. But

1624
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:39,680
Speaker 1: then I go and read a thing about the stock Mark,

1625
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:43,639
Speaker 1: the Quagmar and the Russian Ukraine War, and I come

1626
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:46,160
Speaker 1: away from that feeling that I now understand what's going

1627
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:47,280
Speaker 1: on in the Russian.

1628
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:50,520
Speaker 8: Uk I guess I've read a lot about like actors

1629
01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:54,439
Speaker 8: doing months of ride alongs with cops and doing a

1630
01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:57,000
Speaker 8: lot of research and things like like I'm not.

1631
01:23:57,080 --> 01:24:00,840
Speaker 1: Just well, he's getting defensive. You shouldn't getting offensive. Well, no,

1632
01:24:01,280 --> 01:24:03,840
Speaker 1: like you said it, and then he said cops would disagree.

1633
01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:06,280
Speaker 9: Yeah, well the answer.

1634
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:08,879
Speaker 1: Is probably think they always get cops wrong in the movies,

1635
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:10,840
Speaker 1: but hunters now they get that right.

1636
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:15,080
Speaker 7: This is what's interesting. I just I didn't know this.

1637
01:24:15,080 --> 01:24:17,760
Speaker 7: This is Wikipedia, so I have to further fact check.

1638
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:24,360
Speaker 7: But uh. Gelman amnesia coined by American author Michael Crichton

1639
01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:30,880
Speaker 7: in two thousand and two speech, named after no you're

1640
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:34,559
Speaker 7: it's maybe just like a case of misremembering quote unquote,

1641
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:38,960
Speaker 7: named after American physicist Murray Gelman, which is g E

1642
01:24:39,120 --> 01:24:42,120
Speaker 7: L L DASH M A N N, and the Gelman

1643
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:45,679
Speaker 7: amnesia effect is, according to Wikipedia, the phenomenon of people

1644
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:49,320
Speaker 7: trusting newspapers for topics which they are not knowledgeable about,

1645
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:53,400
Speaker 7: despite recognizing them to be extremely inaccurate on certain topics

1646
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:54,599
Speaker 7: which they are knowledgeable about.

1647
01:24:54,640 --> 01:24:56,680
Speaker 1: It's a great word, it is. It's almost as good

1648
01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:59,680
Speaker 1: as the words she couldn't find, which is what he say.

1649
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:02,880
Speaker 2: I think to answer it, I mean, there are very

1650
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:03,840
Speaker 2: few people I have.

1651
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:08,120
Speaker 1: Meant, very moment sure brocking anybody.

1652
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:10,639
Speaker 9: Oh that's that's what it sounded.

1653
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:15,120
Speaker 3: But I don't see Brody getting all spun up here either.

1654
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:19,320
Speaker 1: You know, he's a little No, he's he's because he's simmering. No, no,

1655
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:25,559
Speaker 1: he's emotional line throughout the day is like, right, Brody's

1656
01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:28,679
Speaker 1: not like you don't like wonder what Brody you're gonna

1657
01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:31,559
Speaker 1: get on any given day. He's like this, so you

1658
01:25:31,640 --> 01:25:35,639
Speaker 1: need to look for like very slight undulations. Actually he's

1659
01:25:35,720 --> 01:25:36,200
Speaker 1: not wrong.

1660
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:38,400
Speaker 9: I thought he was telling me.

1661
01:25:38,439 --> 01:25:42,519
Speaker 3: I was like, so, I think this is a perfect example, right,

1662
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:49,640
Speaker 3: Like that somebody who understands the subject is they're entertained.

1663
01:25:49,960 --> 01:25:51,719
Speaker 3: They know what's a majestic animal.

1664
01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:53,400
Speaker 1: I'll give you an example.

1665
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:56,439
Speaker 3: Hollywood goes, but wouldn't it be better if it just

1666
01:25:56,479 --> 01:25:58,479
Speaker 3: stood up and scratched the air?

1667
01:26:01,320 --> 01:26:02,280
Speaker 9: Here's a great example.

1668
01:26:02,360 --> 01:26:05,479
Speaker 8: Like I recently watched the first episode of the new

1669
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:08,280
Speaker 8: season of True Detective because everyone's talking about it the show.

1670
01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:12,640
Speaker 8: And in the very first scene, there's a Native Alaskan

1671
01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 8: hunter like drawing a bead on some cariboo and it's

1672
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:19,719
Speaker 8: a herd of like cgi caribou. They're all giant bulls,

1673
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:24,320
Speaker 8: and some unknown thing alarms this herd of cariboo and

1674
01:26:24,360 --> 01:26:26,439
Speaker 8: they all start roaring and.

1675
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:28,280
Speaker 2: It's like but like.

1676
01:26:29,880 --> 01:26:34,000
Speaker 8: Huge roars, you know, And it's like that's.

1677
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:37,320
Speaker 2: But it looked good, you know.

1678
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:43,839
Speaker 1: But the cop scene. Yeah, but the cop from Queens

1679
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:44,559
Speaker 1: Dead On.

1680
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:48,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know answer that. It drives me crazy too,

1681
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:50,880
Speaker 2: yeah even and I wouldn't even say. I would even

1682
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:53,120
Speaker 2: say in the series that are based on my books

1683
01:26:53,200 --> 01:26:56,840
Speaker 2: or something sometimes right, yeah, cringe, or if I'm watching

1684
01:26:56,920 --> 01:26:58,799
Speaker 2: it with it. We did kind of a little local

1685
01:26:58,920 --> 01:27:02,280
Speaker 2: premiere last year of Joe Picket ser a couple of

1686
01:27:02,320 --> 01:27:04,479
Speaker 2: things in there that had to do with animals and hunting,

1687
01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:07,559
Speaker 2: and people just moaned, you know, and I thought it

1688
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:10,360
Speaker 2: didn't click with me. It's just the fact that the

1689
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:13,000
Speaker 2: people who are making it have no experience at all

1690
01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:16,439
Speaker 2: and no background, but they don't bother like calling someone well,

1691
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 2: I mean, how many times I'm a fly fisherman? How

1692
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:22,840
Speaker 2: many times on TV or movies have you seen a

1693
01:27:22,880 --> 01:27:26,439
Speaker 2: fisherman going the fly rod whipping that thing back and

1694
01:27:26,479 --> 01:27:30,080
Speaker 2: forth like a twitch? And will you think somebody there

1695
01:27:30,120 --> 01:27:33,880
Speaker 2: would say that's not how you cast? But no one did.

1696
01:27:34,160 --> 01:27:36,920
Speaker 1: And what would Joe What does Joe Pickett think of

1697
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:42,080
Speaker 1: a fly fisherman? What does he think of you? Me? Yeah?

1698
01:27:42,160 --> 01:27:45,120
Speaker 1: Give give me you through his eyes, you're out fishing.

1699
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 2: I think since I haven't countered game wardens. I think

1700
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:54,040
Speaker 2: he'd be respectful, and he'd also check my license and

1701
01:27:54,160 --> 01:27:57,280
Speaker 2: make sure I had a conservation tag and arrest me

1702
01:27:57,320 --> 01:28:00,320
Speaker 2: if I didn't not give me a break.

1703
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:04,360
Speaker 6: I'm curious once you're.

1704
01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:07,880
Speaker 5: Once you've you know, you've written all these novels, and

1705
01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:11,559
Speaker 5: you probably didn't really have an inkling that they would be, uh,

1706
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:16,879
Speaker 5: you know, turned into TV. Now when you write novels,

1707
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:20,320
Speaker 5: is it different? You're not you don't like see your

1708
01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:21,799
Speaker 5: characters as the actor.

1709
01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:25,479
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what really not on your line. No,

1710
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:26,840
Speaker 2: I'm not. I do not.

1711
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:30,160
Speaker 1: You don't tweak it just to try to change increase.

1712
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:30,479
Speaker 1: It's like.

1713
01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:33,920
Speaker 5: It's like one of those things I have to imagine

1714
01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:35,479
Speaker 5: to be like one of those things where once you've

1715
01:28:35,479 --> 01:28:38,559
Speaker 5: seen something depicted one way, it's sort of in the

1716
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:40,160
Speaker 5: back of your mind, even though you're.

1717
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:42,719
Speaker 8: You had already written a ton of those books before

1718
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:43,680
Speaker 8: they became.

1719
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:47,200
Speaker 2: That's the thing I did. Joe Pickett TV show is

1720
01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:51,080
Speaker 2: covers the first three books. That's twenty one years ago.

1721
01:28:51,439 --> 01:28:53,160
Speaker 2: So I'm not going to write something in the current

1722
01:28:53,200 --> 01:28:56,680
Speaker 2: one where Joe Pickett is fifty one to make that

1723
01:28:56,720 --> 01:28:59,080
Speaker 2: make it. Yeah, that's true, and so I don't think

1724
01:28:59,120 --> 01:29:00,920
Speaker 2: about that in the other books. And what the Big

1725
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:04,360
Speaker 2: Sky Cassie Duel totally different character, totally different. I mean

1726
01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:07,679
Speaker 2: they from the get go, completely different than in the books.

1727
01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:10,320
Speaker 1: What also that I want to ask you about with

1728
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:14,400
Speaker 1: like the fiction and the reality of your existence?

1729
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:16,840
Speaker 2: Uh?

1730
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:20,719
Speaker 1: How like how informed is Pickett's relationship with his children

1731
01:29:20,720 --> 01:29:24,120
Speaker 1: with you and your children? Because there's kind of like

1732
01:29:24,160 --> 01:29:29,320
Speaker 1: a like an observation of not necessarily hip to the times,

1733
01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:33,200
Speaker 1: not tech savvy, miss is a lot like is that

1734
01:29:33,439 --> 01:29:34,040
Speaker 1: was that your.

1735
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:37,400
Speaker 2: Experience to a lot to a large degree. Yes, And

1736
01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:40,000
Speaker 2: I have three daughters. Joe Pickett has three daughters, so

1737
01:29:42,040 --> 01:29:46,040
Speaker 2: different ages. All three of my daughters think Sheridan, the

1738
01:29:46,040 --> 01:29:50,479
Speaker 2: oldest one is based on them. The other two. You know,

1739
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:53,680
Speaker 2: I don't know where they come from. But because I

1740
01:29:53,720 --> 01:29:55,200
Speaker 2: know they're going to read the books, I know they're

1741
01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:57,599
Speaker 2: involved with them. I know they're going to offer notes.

1742
01:29:58,720 --> 01:30:02,080
Speaker 2: You know that that that's some what limiting at times

1743
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:03,880
Speaker 2: what's going to happen with the daughters because I don't

1744
01:30:03,880 --> 01:30:06,120
Speaker 2: want to, I don't want to make it get personal.

1745
01:30:08,120 --> 01:30:11,559
Speaker 3: You've never taken advantage of that to like immortalize some

1746
01:30:12,120 --> 01:30:13,960
Speaker 3: major screw up in high school.

1747
01:30:13,760 --> 01:30:18,360
Speaker 5: Suddenly shown her father enough respect.

1748
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 2: No sort of their dialogue and incorporated it at times,

1749
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:25,200
Speaker 2: and they recognize it.

1750
01:30:25,240 --> 01:30:27,919
Speaker 1: But you don't like air out their dirty laundry. No,

1751
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:33,800
Speaker 1: No has the with the economics of it. Does the

1752
01:30:33,840 --> 01:30:38,400
Speaker 1: TV stuff like financially does that just immediately eclipse the

1753
01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:41,920
Speaker 1: the writing end of it. We're from like a money

1754
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:44,400
Speaker 1: making perspective. You think of yourself more as a person

1755
01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:45,959
Speaker 1: that generates TV ideas.

1756
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:49,639
Speaker 2: No, the way I look at the TV shows are

1757
01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:53,479
Speaker 2: one hour commercials for my books, not as and and

1758
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:55,920
Speaker 2: they and and and. It creates a lot more awareness

1759
01:30:56,000 --> 01:30:59,599
Speaker 2: of the books. But in terms of financially these days,

1760
01:31:00,040 --> 01:31:02,680
Speaker 2: with a million streamers and a million different you know,

1761
01:31:02,960 --> 01:31:06,080
Speaker 2: ways to either do shows or see them, it's not

1762
01:31:06,280 --> 01:31:11,799
Speaker 2: It's not that lucrative god anymore. But the commercial aspect

1763
01:31:12,080 --> 01:31:15,600
Speaker 2: being a commercial has made a big difference since the

1764
01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:19,240
Speaker 2: Joe Pickett TV show came out. Like we're looking at

1765
01:31:19,280 --> 01:31:21,840
Speaker 2: the current book. I just heard the other day the

1766
01:31:21,880 --> 01:31:24,840
Speaker 2: pre sales are up forty nine percent from the last book.

1767
01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:29,599
Speaker 2: That's huge for a big you're blow and I've got

1768
01:31:29,680 --> 01:31:31,479
Speaker 2: to tribute a lot of that to the TV show.

1769
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:34,439
Speaker 2: People are interested in the series for the first time,

1770
01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:36,360
Speaker 2: because I don't know what else it comes. It would

1771
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:37,800
Speaker 2: careme from.

1772
01:31:37,439 --> 01:31:44,760
Speaker 1: Man, So what an interesting cree you had, though, I've.

1773
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:45,960
Speaker 2: Had three really interesting careers.

1774
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:48,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like because it's like it's just it's such

1775
01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:52,040
Speaker 1: a oh man, it's like American elbow grease, you know,

1776
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:58,000
Speaker 1: like going to those lonely ass depressing conferences and well

1777
01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:01,360
Speaker 1: trying to like, yes, you know, it's like a lot

1778
01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:03,200
Speaker 1: of people got too much pride for that. Man.

1779
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:06,120
Speaker 2: Ah, I don't know. I mean that's it's kind of

1780
01:32:06,160 --> 01:32:09,360
Speaker 2: a glamorous job to international travel. It sounds better than No.

1781
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:11,760
Speaker 1: No, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about no, no, no, no, no,

1782
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:15,840
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm not anyway. I think I was disrespecting

1783
01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:19,760
Speaker 1: your business, not at all. I meant going down and

1784
01:32:20,439 --> 01:32:23,000
Speaker 1: like showing up at something and just trying to hustle

1785
01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:25,679
Speaker 1: to find to find an agent, to find an editor

1786
01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:28,000
Speaker 1: all that. Do you know what I mean? Like you

1787
01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:30,120
Speaker 1: got to bury the pride, you know, and go down

1788
01:32:30,200 --> 01:32:34,759
Speaker 1: there and you're not coming in with connections. You're walking

1789
01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:37,000
Speaker 1: to the door trying to you know, trying to do it,

1790
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:39,240
Speaker 1: and it's like a sort of it's a tough position

1791
01:32:39,320 --> 01:32:41,960
Speaker 1: to you know, it's just a tough position to be like, oh, hey,

1792
01:32:42,200 --> 01:32:44,040
Speaker 1: you know, check out my book, check out my novel.

1793
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:45,040
Speaker 1: It's just hard man.

1794
01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:47,760
Speaker 2: It is, and it's you know, I mean, this is

1795
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:49,960
Speaker 2: not any secret to you or anything you're not used to.

1796
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:52,840
Speaker 2: But I mean, how many people in their profession have

1797
01:32:52,960 --> 01:32:56,800
Speaker 2: an Amazon comment section about every single thing they do

1798
01:32:57,720 --> 01:32:59,840
Speaker 2: where people from all over the world can weigh in

1799
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:02,840
Speaker 2: and they all say, it doesn't matter what book is

1800
01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:06,080
Speaker 2: out there, they're going to say, he's don't even write

1801
01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:09,760
Speaker 2: him anymore. You can tell he mailed this one in

1802
01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:12,400
Speaker 2: kind of thing, no matter what book it is, and

1803
01:33:12,439 --> 01:33:15,200
Speaker 2: you just you gets got to keep cranking away. You

1804
01:33:15,240 --> 01:33:18,560
Speaker 2: know it's going to happen. All you can do is

1805
01:33:18,600 --> 01:33:22,120
Speaker 2: look at the average, not the super highs and super low.

1806
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:24,080
Speaker 1: So do you have to be that everything you have

1807
01:33:24,120 --> 01:33:25,519
Speaker 1: to say you just say it through your book, And

1808
01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:27,200
Speaker 1: if you don't say it through your book, you don't say.

1809
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:31,000
Speaker 2: It except privately. Yes, I do. Yeah, I think that's

1810
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:31,920
Speaker 2: that's a good way to go.

1811
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:34,560
Speaker 9: Do you have a.

1812
01:33:36,439 --> 01:33:40,080
Speaker 8: Like an agreement with the publisher, like what's your timeline?

1813
01:33:40,200 --> 01:33:43,080
Speaker 8: Like do you try to get one out every one

1814
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:43,400
Speaker 8: a year?

1815
01:33:43,520 --> 01:33:46,840
Speaker 2: Right? I have a contract on a deadline. Yeah, every

1816
01:33:47,800 --> 01:33:52,639
Speaker 2: either October or September day. I'm always ahead of deadline.

1817
01:33:52,720 --> 01:33:53,759
Speaker 2: I've never never.

1818
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:57,560
Speaker 1: Really No, do you ever bring in the collaborator?

1819
01:33:58,280 --> 01:34:01,800
Speaker 2: No? And I don't think I could. I I can't

1820
01:34:01,800 --> 01:34:05,479
Speaker 2: think of the only I could conceivably maybe write with

1821
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:08,559
Speaker 2: one of my daughters, because I think we think alike.

1822
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:12,559
Speaker 2: But I did a short story once with another author

1823
01:34:12,560 --> 01:34:14,679
Speaker 2: who was a great person, but it was not fun

1824
01:34:14,720 --> 01:34:19,479
Speaker 2: and it didn't go well. Just two different processing when you.

1825
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:25,320
Speaker 5: I was last week, I was at the Bozeman Public

1826
01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:27,920
Speaker 5: Library and I went, you know, through the stacks, and

1827
01:34:27,960 --> 01:34:32,479
Speaker 5: I just think, oh, go check out. You're what turned

1828
01:34:32,479 --> 01:34:37,720
Speaker 5: out to be three shelves, right, that's good and well,

1829
01:34:37,760 --> 01:34:40,880
Speaker 5: and you know they it's funny because you know some

1830
01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:43,519
Speaker 5: of them were they had one copy, others. I mean

1831
01:34:43,560 --> 01:34:46,719
Speaker 5: I was I was shocked how many of these books

1832
01:34:46,800 --> 01:34:48,960
Speaker 5: they had like two or three copies on the shelf.

1833
01:34:49,800 --> 01:34:51,920
Speaker 5: And I was just it occurred to me, as you

1834
01:34:51,920 --> 01:34:55,439
Speaker 5: were talking earlier, going to that section of the stacks

1835
01:34:55,439 --> 01:34:57,200
Speaker 5: and looking for where your book would go? Do you

1836
01:34:57,240 --> 01:34:59,360
Speaker 5: go back to Have you been back to the Casper

1837
01:34:59,400 --> 01:35:00,639
Speaker 5: Public libr and just.

1838
01:35:00,600 --> 01:35:02,519
Speaker 1: Sort of they got in there.

1839
01:35:02,760 --> 01:35:06,200
Speaker 5: Reflected on that spot because you probably never imagined it

1840
01:35:06,200 --> 01:35:08,960
Speaker 5: would be a whole half a Okay, I never have.

1841
01:35:09,360 --> 01:35:11,400
Speaker 2: I have done that. I still do that, and I

1842
01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:13,360
Speaker 2: also do it in bookstores. It's got to be pretty

1843
01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:18,439
Speaker 2: surreal fu airport bookstores. That's always you never know. I

1844
01:35:18,479 --> 01:35:20,760
Speaker 2: never say who I am until I find out for

1845
01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:21,639
Speaker 2: sure they have the book.

1846
01:35:24,520 --> 01:35:28,400
Speaker 8: Are you gonna You're gonna keep going with Joe Pickett

1847
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:29,679
Speaker 8: till you can't go anymore?

1848
01:35:29,760 --> 01:35:31,800
Speaker 9: You can do something different or no.

1849
01:35:31,880 --> 01:35:34,680
Speaker 2: I have done some other things, and I've got some

1850
01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:39,600
Speaker 2: ideas down. Some ideas can't be Joe Pickett books. The

1851
01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 2: serial Killer Highway Driver.

1852
01:35:43,640 --> 01:35:44,880
Speaker 1: Optioned that.

1853
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:48,120
Speaker 2: That was part of the Big Sky. That's how it

1854
01:35:48,200 --> 01:35:51,240
Speaker 2: actually started out with that book and that story. But

1855
01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:54,479
Speaker 2: so I'll have I have some other ideas. They'll probably

1856
01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:55,040
Speaker 2: be different ones.

1857
01:35:55,080 --> 01:35:57,280
Speaker 9: So you're not going to stop writing and just ride

1858
01:35:57,320 --> 01:35:58,000
Speaker 9: off the sun.

1859
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:00,519
Speaker 2: Joe Pickett, like I said, is fit to figure that

1860
01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:02,360
Speaker 2: out a few years ago. Go back from the very

1861
01:36:02,400 --> 01:36:05,519
Speaker 2: first book. How old was he? Thirty four? And then

1862
01:36:05,720 --> 01:36:10,160
Speaker 2: plot him at age at the same rate. Right, Actually,

1863
01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:12,760
Speaker 2: I'm older. I'm older than to Pickett. Yeah, so, and

1864
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:16,479
Speaker 2: he's ready to retire. I'll be ready to fire, I think, really, yeah,

1865
01:36:16,479 --> 01:36:16,920
Speaker 2: I think, so.

1866
01:36:17,240 --> 01:36:19,920
Speaker 1: Well, he's got to have twenty years now, he's well,

1867
01:36:19,960 --> 01:36:22,160
Speaker 1: he's gone, he's gotta have thirty, right right, I've gotta

1868
01:36:22,160 --> 01:36:22,599
Speaker 1: have thirty.

1869
01:36:22,760 --> 01:36:24,800
Speaker 2: And not every book is a year apart. Some of

1870
01:36:24,800 --> 01:36:26,880
Speaker 2: them are back to back, some of them a month later,

1871
01:36:27,479 --> 01:36:29,400
Speaker 2: so I can kind of play around with that.

1872
01:36:30,040 --> 01:36:33,040
Speaker 1: M hm. So you picture quitting someday.

1873
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:36,960
Speaker 2: Although inevitably there'll be some point. But I think if

1874
01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:39,200
Speaker 2: I start getting bored with it, or if I start

1875
01:36:39,240 --> 01:36:43,200
Speaker 2: thinking I'm retelling the same story, then I think I'll

1876
01:36:43,240 --> 01:36:45,640
Speaker 2: know to pull the plug. I don't want to do that.

1877
01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:48,599
Speaker 2: I think everyone needs to be a standalone in its

1878
01:36:48,640 --> 01:36:52,200
Speaker 2: own way. And when I'm rehashing the formula, which i

1879
01:36:52,920 --> 01:36:55,600
Speaker 2: I'm a reader too, and sometimes long time series, I

1880
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:58,880
Speaker 2: start thinking, I think I've read this one before. I

1881
01:36:59,280 --> 01:37:01,880
Speaker 2: want to get out before anybody says that or thinks that.

1882
01:37:01,960 --> 01:37:03,880
Speaker 1: You know. What prevents me from being able to watch

1883
01:37:04,160 --> 01:37:11,920
Speaker 1: serial dramas on TV is, inevitably you get some number

1884
01:37:11,960 --> 01:37:14,960
Speaker 1: of episodes in. It could be four or five, could

1885
01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:19,160
Speaker 1: be season two, and you can start to smell the

1886
01:37:19,240 --> 01:37:22,360
Speaker 1: writers stretching it out, trying to keep it going.

1887
01:37:23,439 --> 01:37:25,679
Speaker 2: I understand now, you go back.

1888
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:30,160
Speaker 1: To Dukes of Hazard, and it would be that you

1889
01:37:30,240 --> 01:37:32,720
Speaker 1: have these cast of characters and like every week a

1890
01:37:32,800 --> 01:37:35,680
Speaker 1: bad man, a bad person comes to town with some

1891
01:37:35,760 --> 01:37:42,160
Speaker 1: kind of nefarious objective. They get vanquished and.

1892
01:37:42,160 --> 01:37:43,360
Speaker 9: Just it's like Scooby Doo.

1893
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:46,240
Speaker 6: That's exactly what I was about to say.

1894
01:37:46,920 --> 01:37:50,559
Speaker 1: I could somehow, I could somehow tolerate that. But it's

1895
01:37:50,600 --> 01:37:58,799
Speaker 1: the it's the storyline dramas Deadwood, which I was enthralled

1896
01:37:58,840 --> 01:38:01,599
Speaker 1: with that first, but eventually came like, oh, I can

1897
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:05,960
Speaker 1: see now, like it's about time someone new comes to town.

1898
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:09,840
Speaker 1: And once you once unnatural and you smell it, oh,

1899
01:38:09,880 --> 01:38:12,639
Speaker 1: it kills it for me. But dude, I'm like, I'm

1900
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:16,759
Speaker 1: jealous of uh, I'm jealous of your career in program

1901
01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:20,840
Speaker 1: mm because because the way I probably imagine it wrong,

1902
01:38:21,320 --> 01:38:25,599
Speaker 1: everybody imagines everybody else's life wrong. I imagine that you get

1903
01:38:25,640 --> 01:38:29,960
Speaker 1: to just like when professionally for work, you're just like

1904
01:38:30,840 --> 01:38:36,640
Speaker 1: you'll you occupy a single space, right, yes, and it

1905
01:38:37,080 --> 01:38:42,280
Speaker 1: rolls along and there's not like these radical resets.

1906
01:38:42,040 --> 01:38:45,639
Speaker 2: Right, I mean yes, And I just I was pinched

1907
01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:47,640
Speaker 2: myself and you know, I have the best job in

1908
01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:50,000
Speaker 2: the world. I think, you know, I go into my

1909
01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:53,960
Speaker 2: little office above our porch barn and do so many

1910
01:38:54,040 --> 01:38:56,160
Speaker 2: words a day, and then go out and do whatever.

1911
01:38:56,560 --> 01:38:57,320
Speaker 6: You know, how many words?

1912
01:38:57,720 --> 01:39:00,479
Speaker 2: Uh, minimum of a thousand, But some day I can

1913
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:03,400
Speaker 2: hit three four thousand. Some days it's a struggle to

1914
01:39:03,439 --> 01:39:04,160
Speaker 2: get that thousand.

1915
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:05,120
Speaker 1: What time you get up?

1916
01:39:05,840 --> 01:39:09,400
Speaker 2: I get up early, but I don't begin writing early necessarily.

1917
01:39:09,439 --> 01:39:12,519
Speaker 2: It's that usually you know, ten or eleven when I'm

1918
01:39:12,520 --> 01:39:14,519
Speaker 2: actually start writing.

1919
01:39:14,600 --> 01:39:15,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, what time you wrap it up?

1920
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:19,080
Speaker 2: Whenever I hit my word count or whenever I start

1921
01:39:19,120 --> 01:39:21,200
Speaker 2: to just feel kind of mentally tired, I'll.

1922
01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:21,680
Speaker 1: Part for me.

1923
01:39:22,400 --> 01:39:26,200
Speaker 2: Uh usually two two thirty, So I think about that

1924
01:39:26,600 --> 01:39:28,880
Speaker 2: I have it three or four hour day. That's not bad.

1925
01:39:28,960 --> 01:39:30,519
Speaker 1: Well, but I used to do that when I was

1926
01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:32,639
Speaker 1: just writing. I did the same thing. I'd be done early.

1927
01:39:32,680 --> 01:39:34,920
Speaker 2: But you're always thinking, oh, yeah, that's what I tell

1928
01:39:34,960 --> 01:39:37,720
Speaker 2: my wife when she thinks I'm just staring. No, I'm

1929
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:38,759
Speaker 2: thinking I'm working.

1930
01:39:38,920 --> 01:39:42,400
Speaker 8: But you can't write for eight or ten hours straight

1931
01:39:42,520 --> 01:39:43,439
Speaker 8: like nobody, Like.

1932
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:45,479
Speaker 2: I've talked to people who say they do, and I

1933
01:39:45,760 --> 01:39:46,000
Speaker 2: kind of.

1934
01:39:46,479 --> 01:39:50,040
Speaker 1: All that whole that whole idea we used to have

1935
01:39:50,080 --> 01:39:53,360
Speaker 1: this that you're like everybody thought it could be like

1936
01:39:53,439 --> 01:39:55,439
Speaker 1: Charles Bikowski. You know you're.

1937
01:39:55,360 --> 01:39:56,400
Speaker 6: Bleeding for your way.

1938
01:39:56,560 --> 01:39:59,360
Speaker 1: You're like drunk three in the morning writing all this

1939
01:39:59,520 --> 01:40:02,320
Speaker 1: genius stuff. You know. I would be basically if I

1940
01:40:02,360 --> 01:40:05,040
Speaker 1: was writing. If I was writing, that meant I was

1941
01:40:05,040 --> 01:40:08,479
Speaker 1: probably at night drinking because I was in town home.

1942
01:40:09,160 --> 01:40:13,600
Speaker 1: So I'd wake up, be kind of hungover, do my correspondence,

1943
01:40:13,640 --> 01:40:17,120
Speaker 1: like answer emails, do whatever I had to do, uh,

1944
01:40:17,880 --> 01:40:21,680
Speaker 1: do research stuff for a while, and then I would like,

1945
01:40:22,479 --> 01:40:26,519
Speaker 1: actually this, I would lay down under my desk on

1946
01:40:26,560 --> 01:40:28,719
Speaker 1: my back and fall asleep.

1947
01:40:29,040 --> 01:40:29,320
Speaker 2: Huh.

1948
01:40:30,760 --> 01:40:32,599
Speaker 1: And that would be my That would reset my brain

1949
01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:35,640
Speaker 1: and I would sleep. But I can't sleep long on

1950
01:40:35,680 --> 01:40:38,960
Speaker 1: my back, so it might be twenty minutes, maybe an hour,

1951
01:40:39,080 --> 01:40:41,280
Speaker 1: whatever it would be. I would sleep under the desk.

1952
01:40:42,320 --> 01:40:45,200
Speaker 1: I would wake up bam. I would sit up, get

1953
01:40:45,240 --> 01:40:47,439
Speaker 1: in my desk and do all the writing I was

1954
01:40:47,479 --> 01:40:50,680
Speaker 1: gonna do two three hours, and then I would go

1955
01:40:50,720 --> 01:40:54,920
Speaker 1: read and continue doing the research stuff. And then by

1956
01:40:55,160 --> 01:40:58,440
Speaker 1: early night, early afternoon, by way before dinner.

1957
01:41:00,280 --> 01:41:01,559
Speaker 6: To start, I was done.

1958
01:41:02,040 --> 01:41:04,400
Speaker 1: I was done. And then at that time my wife

1959
01:41:04,479 --> 01:41:07,520
Speaker 1: had worked about ten at night, so I would oftentimes

1960
01:41:07,560 --> 01:41:12,400
Speaker 1: I would make for two of us. I would make dinner.

1961
01:41:12,439 --> 01:41:15,920
Speaker 1: That would take me four hours to prepare. That's when

1962
01:41:15,960 --> 01:41:19,320
Speaker 1: I got like really into That's interesting because I didn't

1963
01:41:19,320 --> 01:41:21,080
Speaker 1: know what to do because she wouldn't she wasn't going

1964
01:41:21,160 --> 01:41:24,120
Speaker 1: to leave work till million hours at that time. Yeah,

1965
01:41:24,120 --> 01:41:25,720
Speaker 1: and I'd be like, man, that makes the craziest thing

1966
01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:31,599
Speaker 1: animays every evening that is done, I was done.

1967
01:41:32,120 --> 01:41:35,160
Speaker 2: But yeah, I find not the writing the hardest thing

1968
01:41:35,360 --> 01:41:39,200
Speaker 2: as years go on. But but making myself get the

1969
01:41:39,240 --> 01:41:43,120
Speaker 2: time to write is harder now than the actual writing.

1970
01:41:42,920 --> 01:41:45,880
Speaker 1: Is because now your writing business, Yeah.

1971
01:41:45,800 --> 01:41:47,599
Speaker 2: There's a lot more demands. There's a lot more things

1972
01:41:47,640 --> 01:41:50,559
Speaker 2: going on. So what I try to do is is

1973
01:41:50,600 --> 01:41:53,719
Speaker 2: basically get the book done in the dead of winter

1974
01:41:54,000 --> 01:41:56,479
Speaker 2: when there's not a lot going on, so that I'm

1975
01:41:56,520 --> 01:41:59,920
Speaker 2: available to fish as much as I can, and play

1976
01:42:00,040 --> 01:42:01,920
Speaker 2: golf as much as I can, and folk the river

1977
01:42:01,960 --> 01:42:02,720
Speaker 2: as much as I can.

1978
01:42:02,800 --> 01:42:04,800
Speaker 1: So right now, it's game on, right in time, that's right.

1979
01:42:05,120 --> 01:42:07,559
Speaker 2: And I'm about two thirds done with the next Joe

1980
01:42:07,640 --> 01:42:10,439
Speaker 2: pick A book, which I think i'll have done before

1981
01:42:10,479 --> 01:42:13,519
Speaker 2: summer starts. I got grand kids too, that's the biggest

1982
01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:15,760
Speaker 2: thing ever. When they're around, I don't want to have

1983
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:17,120
Speaker 2: to retreat to the barn.

1984
01:42:17,840 --> 01:42:20,080
Speaker 1: I like that that you still, even though you're a writer,

1985
01:42:20,280 --> 01:42:23,120
Speaker 1: which is so modernish, that you still have a sort

1986
01:42:23,160 --> 01:42:27,120
Speaker 1: of there's a seasonality, you know, there's like an awareness

1987
01:42:27,160 --> 01:42:30,720
Speaker 1: of the solar cycle, right, like you gotta get it

1988
01:42:30,760 --> 01:42:31,800
Speaker 1: done in the winter. You know.

1989
01:42:32,400 --> 01:42:36,680
Speaker 2: Well, you know what I find I can write about.

1990
01:42:36,200 --> 01:42:39,840
Speaker 2: I can write about the summer better in the winter

1991
01:42:40,080 --> 01:42:43,040
Speaker 2: and the winter better in the summer because it makes

1992
01:42:43,080 --> 01:42:46,240
Speaker 2: myself make it forces me to really think of all

1993
01:42:46,280 --> 01:42:48,439
Speaker 2: those things and not just take them for granted.

1994
01:42:48,560 --> 01:42:50,320
Speaker 1: Well now, if not, if you're writing about the winter

1995
01:42:50,400 --> 01:42:52,040
Speaker 1: and the winter, you'd be like kind of sucks.

1996
01:42:52,240 --> 01:42:52,519
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1997
01:42:52,920 --> 01:42:56,960
Speaker 8: One thing I noticed, like early on and this book,

1998
01:42:57,520 --> 01:43:00,880
Speaker 8: was like, this guy has spent a lot, a lot

1999
01:43:00,920 --> 01:43:04,639
Speaker 8: of time outside at a very particular time in the fall,

2000
01:43:04,760 --> 01:43:09,320
Speaker 8: Like you're describing the brightness and sharpness of the light

2001
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:10,680
Speaker 8: and the colors.

2002
01:43:10,240 --> 01:43:10,680
Speaker 2: Of the lead.

2003
01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:14,040
Speaker 8: And there's only like a couple of days like that

2004
01:43:14,120 --> 01:43:17,559
Speaker 8: in the fall where it's like everything super intense in

2005
01:43:17,640 --> 01:43:20,840
Speaker 8: October you always know, yeah, early October maybe, And I

2006
01:43:20,880 --> 01:43:24,400
Speaker 8: was like, this guy's been out there on that kind

2007
01:43:24,439 --> 01:43:24,800
Speaker 8: of day.

2008
01:43:24,920 --> 01:43:27,040
Speaker 2: And where this book opens, it's on the bend of

2009
01:43:27,080 --> 01:43:29,799
Speaker 2: a river with super fall colors and a fly fisherman

2010
01:43:29,840 --> 01:43:32,519
Speaker 2: in the river and then a grizzly bear comes pounding

2011
01:43:32,560 --> 01:43:35,480
Speaker 2: down the mountain and hits him. That's where I fish,

2012
01:43:35,800 --> 01:43:38,400
Speaker 2: and it's actually on a private ranch in the ranch

2013
01:43:38,439 --> 01:43:40,519
Speaker 2: owner I gave him that chapter and he said, I

2014
01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:44,040
Speaker 2: can't go back there now. It's all I can think

2015
01:43:44,080 --> 01:43:46,280
Speaker 2: about is a bear getting me.

2016
01:43:46,560 --> 01:43:46,720
Speaker 6: You know.

2017
01:43:47,640 --> 01:43:47,760
Speaker 7: No.

2018
01:43:47,880 --> 01:43:51,400
Speaker 8: But it was like, yeah, that's that one or two days.

2019
01:43:51,120 --> 01:43:51,719
Speaker 9: In the fall.

2020
01:43:52,040 --> 01:43:54,080
Speaker 1: You know that you get in the mountains.

2021
01:43:54,479 --> 01:43:55,000
Speaker 2: It's cool.

2022
01:43:55,240 --> 01:43:56,600
Speaker 1: Well, man, like I said, I got a ton of

2023
01:43:56,640 --> 01:44:01,960
Speaker 1: respect for what you've built. And also just how you

2024
01:44:02,000 --> 01:44:04,280
Speaker 1: came up. You know that you knew what you wanted

2025
01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:09,840
Speaker 1: to do and set out to do it well. And

2026
01:44:09,880 --> 01:44:11,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't handed to you. No, I had to eat.

2027
01:44:11,960 --> 01:44:13,559
Speaker 1: I didn't have to do what you did well.

2028
01:44:13,600 --> 01:44:15,320
Speaker 2: I just I remember I was actually on a book

2029
01:44:15,360 --> 01:44:19,800
Speaker 2: tour early on at a bookstore and the bookstore owner

2030
01:44:19,840 --> 01:44:20,960
Speaker 2: came to me. He said, you want to know the

2031
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:23,439
Speaker 2: best book I have read this year, and it gives

2032
01:44:23,479 --> 01:44:26,120
Speaker 2: me American Buffalo and.

2033
01:44:26,080 --> 01:44:28,120
Speaker 1: Uh, and I tell you guy, I said, thanks.

2034
01:44:28,479 --> 01:44:31,200
Speaker 2: I will and I loved it. My wife loved it,

2035
01:44:31,320 --> 01:44:34,080
Speaker 2: and I think I gave it to my daughter who

2036
01:44:34,080 --> 01:44:35,400
Speaker 2: didn't return it. So I had to go get a

2037
01:44:35,439 --> 01:44:37,800
Speaker 2: new copy. But hopefully I love that.

2038
01:44:38,400 --> 01:44:43,520
Speaker 1: Tell heveryone. He wrote that he's asleep under his desk. Yeah,

2039
01:44:43,560 --> 01:44:48,519
Speaker 1: well everybody. C J Box has a new Joe Pickett

2040
01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:53,680
Speaker 1: novel out, three Inch Teeth. Great cover. Can you see

2041
01:44:53,680 --> 01:44:54,200
Speaker 1: this cover here?

2042
01:44:54,200 --> 01:44:55,320
Speaker 2: Film looks great.

2043
01:44:55,479 --> 01:44:58,320
Speaker 1: A few people are listening and you can't see it.

2044
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:02,920
Speaker 7: I want to tell you there's a grizzly bear in

2045
01:45:02,960 --> 01:45:03,320
Speaker 7: the center.

2046
01:45:03,479 --> 01:45:06,240
Speaker 6: Fight it at your local bookstore. You can see the cover.

2047
01:45:06,520 --> 01:45:09,400
Speaker 1: It's got some steam coming up when you see that steam.

2048
01:45:09,400 --> 01:45:12,880
Speaker 1: Are you picturing hot springs? Are you picturing, uh, steam breathing.

2049
01:45:13,560 --> 01:45:17,440
Speaker 2: I'm kind of thinking just foggy, foggy steam breathing grizzlies.

2050
01:45:18,600 --> 01:45:22,960
Speaker 1: CJ Box. There's an endorsement around the front. Joe Pickett

2051
01:45:23,240 --> 01:45:25,680
Speaker 1: is the one man you'd want by your side in

2052
01:45:25,720 --> 01:45:29,200
Speaker 1: a crisis. Number one New York Times best selling author,

2053
01:45:30,720 --> 01:45:34,680
Speaker 1: and the new title is three Inch Teeth. Check it

2054
01:45:34,680 --> 01:45:39,160
Speaker 1: out now available anywhere books are sold, and under the

2055
01:45:39,280 --> 01:45:43,360
Speaker 1: b at the local library. He's already cased it out

2056
01:45:43,400 --> 01:45:46,559
Speaker 1: and he's found the slot. It should be full. Thanks

2057
01:45:46,560 --> 01:45:47,840
Speaker 1: for coming on, man, I really appreciate it.

2058
01:45:48,200 --> 01:45:50,160
Speaker 2: I've been looking forward to this for a long time.

2059
01:45:50,200 --> 01:45:51,960
Speaker 2: Like I'm a fan. It's really fun and.

2060
01:45:53,120 --> 01:45:53,720
Speaker 1: I appreciate it.

2061
01:45:53,720 --> 01:45:54,759
Speaker 2: I appreciate you guys.

2062
01:45:54,960 --> 01:45:57,280
Speaker 1: Best of lucky with your book. I can keep steaming along.

2063
01:45:57,439 --> 01:45:59,880
Speaker 1: I will And thanks for being such a like A

2064
01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:04,640
Speaker 1: think of you as an American inspiration story. So we

2065
01:46:04,640 --> 01:46:07,479
Speaker 1: need to see more out of you, Americans. Look what

2066
01:46:07,520 --> 01:46:07,840
Speaker 1: you can do.

2067
01:46:08,240 --> 01:46:10,240
Speaker 2: Your thank you.

2068
01:46:12,320 --> 01:46:21,840
Speaker 4: Mo beans, mo beans, pole beans, mo beans. Talking about

2069
01:46:21,880 --> 01:46:28,519
Speaker 4: beans out there on the pole, better little call find

2070
01:46:28,560 --> 01:46:35,599
Speaker 4: some mo some mo beans, pole beans. There's a couple

2071
01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:40,760
Speaker 4: over there, a few more right there, one over there.

2072
01:46:42,200 --> 01:46:51,840
Speaker 4: Beans everywhere, mo beans, pole beans. Fresh set eyes find

2073
01:46:51,880 --> 01:46:57,560
Speaker 4: more beans, mo beans, pole beans,