Speaker 1: You're listening to Comedy Central.
Speaker 2: From Comedy Central's World News headquarters in New York.
Speaker 1: This is the Daily Show with James Too. Everybody, Welcome
Speaker 1: to the Daily Show. My name is Jack Dort. What
Speaker 1: a show for you tonight, man?
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 3: I am rapped up tonight, and not just because I
Speaker 3: had Starbucks the old fashioned way.
Speaker 1: It's a story I'll tell you about some other time.
Speaker 3: I got a big show tonight. I'm excited because we
Speaker 3: have a Daily Show exclosive former White House Presidentretary Scott
Speaker 3: MacLellan in what is being billed by us as his
Speaker 3: only appearance on television.
Speaker 1: With a Daily show exclusive. All right, I got nothing.
Speaker 1: Of course.
Speaker 3: Skon Colon has just written a book called What Happened,
Speaker 3: an insider account of spin and propaganda that will mildly
Speaker 3: confirm the things about this administration that angered and frightened
Speaker 3: you over the first couple of years of their reign,
Speaker 3: and then over time you have come to accept as
Speaker 3: the new normal. I didn't read the book, of course,
Speaker 3: because it's harvest season, but.
Speaker 1: I listened to the hell out of it on my
Speaker 1: John Deere.
Speaker 3: That's a tractor for you elites. Pretty remarkable audiobook check
Speaker 3: out this passage.
Speaker 4: Being evasive is not the same as lying in Bush's mind.
Speaker 3: You know, look, I'm not an audiobook producer anymore, but
Speaker 3: I do live by one simple rule. When you got
Speaker 3: something important to say, how you say it is nine
Speaker 3: tenths of the law.
Speaker 5: You got his zaz it up.
Speaker 1: You got McClellan reading his.
Speaker 3: Own book, you got a blockbuster script was straight to
Speaker 3: video talent, no offense.
Speaker 1: Let me show you something Schneider.
Speaker 3: Hi, everybody, Fred Schneider, the Beef fifty Dudes's on clarbul
Speaker 3: fun claque.
Speaker 1: Nice to see her. Hold on. How you doing, Fred,
Speaker 1: I'm fine?
Speaker 4: Thanks, Thanks for having Fred.
Speaker 3: The Scott McClellan book is an incredibly important book, and
Speaker 3: it's a bit of a dry read on the audio version.
Speaker 3: I was hoping you could put a code of Schneider
Speaker 3: on this one, could you.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Music being a base, it's not the same as
Speaker 6: lion and pushes mine cutting friends.
Speaker 1: Now, that is a page turner. That is something people
Speaker 1: get excited about. You stick around a little bit.
Speaker 6: Okay, all right, do you want to do another one?
Speaker 1: I'd love another one. I'd love a quick one. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, here we go.
Speaker 6: Okay, this is from page to seventeen. Okay, all right, music.
Speaker 6: As I entered the yobel Aria, I ran into Scared
Speaker 6: or Living.
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you very much. Exciting to be fifty coodes.
Speaker 2: That's an audio book. That's what I'm talking about. All right,
Speaker 2: So here we go here, folks. Anyway, I hope you.
Speaker 1: All had a nice weekend. I had tickets this weekend
Speaker 1: to go see.
Speaker 3: The Democratic Party Rules and Bylaws Committee playing at the
Speaker 3: Marriott in DC.
Speaker 1: Boo, y'all, but.
Speaker 3: Obviously I couldn't go. Had a family obligation.
Speaker 1: Uh man.
Speaker 3: When I was single right out of college, I don't
Speaker 3: think I missed one by Law Committee rule.
Speaker 1: Meeting session.
Speaker 3: I got a bootleg from nineteen eighty sickest meeting. It
Speaker 3: was one where Carter supporters recommended the committee adopted Rule
Speaker 3: F three c bonding delegates to the pledge candidate on
Speaker 3: the first ballot.
Speaker 1: If you remember it, you weren't there, mother. I didn't
Speaker 1: think I was gonna be able to get that out.
Speaker 3: But anyway, at this meeting, this time, the Michigan and
Speaker 3: Florida delegations petitioned to have their votes reinstated after having
Speaker 3: them stripped because they violated party rules by moving up
Speaker 3: there primaries.
Speaker 1: The argument to do so was pretty passionate.
Speaker 7: Let me go to a po one that the charter
Speaker 7: delegates shall be delegates E and C members, and the
Speaker 7: other charter delegates shall be delegates. Shall There's no conditional
Speaker 7: use of the word. The question is shall provide or
Speaker 7: shall permit? Shall provide? To me, is mandatory? Shall permit?
Speaker 1: His discretionary?
Speaker 3: Yep, you've ever gotten really high and thought about what
Speaker 3: shall really? Actually the meeting wasn't just about procedural arguments
Speaker 3: and redefining words. This meeting was about the good people
Speaker 3: who'd been disenfranchised in Michigan and Florida.
Speaker 8: Tabata Burgos, who cast her very first vote in Orlando.
Speaker 3: Megan Foster, a mother of five from Tampa.
Speaker 8: Shall Jennons from Barrington Beach, Florida. She's eighty two years old.
Speaker 7: About Mary Mooney, She's from North Florida.
Speaker 8: Edith Rozen from Boca Ratone, who, at ninety four years old,
Speaker 8: waited in line to cast her vote.
Speaker 9: Matouselah Jones, one hundred and eighty six years old, traveled
Speaker 9: from her home to the voting booth via pogo stick
Speaker 9: Yoda Schwartz from Saint Petersburg, seven hundred and eighty years old,
Speaker 9: had herself criogenically frozen, to be defrosted only in the
Speaker 9: case of such an historic election.
Speaker 2: Oh And, in an astonishing coincidence, In an astonishing coincidence,
Speaker 2: the very principal decision.
Speaker 3: Of how to seat the delegations broke down precisely along
Speaker 3: candidate lines. Barack Obama's people read their firm belief in
Speaker 3: the prior rule of law. Hillary Clinton's people registered their
Speaker 3: firm belief the power of one man, one vote, causing
Speaker 3: some hilarious mix ups. Take Clinton advisor Harold the aptly
Speaker 3: named Ikeys, who last year, as a member of this committee,
Speaker 3: very same committee voted to strip the Florida and Michigan
Speaker 3: delegations back when his candidate didn't need them.
Speaker 10: I am stunned that we have the gall and the
Speaker 10: hutzpah to substitute our judgment for six hundred thousand voters.
Speaker 10: Was the process flawed? You bet your asset was flawed.
Speaker 3: Do I think I'm cool for saying ass better believe that.
Speaker 3: Ultimately the committee agreed to see both states delegations, but
Speaker 3: with their half vote, not their whole vote. Florida split
Speaker 3: one O five for Clinton, sixty seven for Obama, a
Speaker 3: portion based on the outcome of its primary. Michigan split
Speaker 3: its delegate sixty nine to fifty nine based on a
Speaker 3: formula factoring in exit polls, write ins, uncommitted votes, whether
Speaker 3: conditions happenstance, hit points, and the indescribable star wattage of
Speaker 3: Julia Roberts smile, Oh, pretty woman, is there nothing you
Speaker 3: can't let up on it? So we're good now, everybody happy,
Speaker 3: crazy lady, you've been awfully quiet tonight.
Speaker 9: The Democrats are throwing the election away for what an
Speaker 9: inadequate what maw who would.
Speaker 7: Not have been running had it not been a white woman?
Speaker 3: Okay, see it passed over, Grandma.
Speaker 1: We'll be right. Hey. You know what, Hey, Fred, can
Speaker 1: you take us out?
Speaker 6: Okay? Ah?
Speaker 7: Music?
Speaker 6: Yeah, right back, baby, right back, right back, Well, be
Speaker 6: right back, baby, what.
Speaker 2: About I guess toy?
Speaker 3: He served as White House Press Secretary from two thousand
Speaker 3: and three until two thousand and six.
Speaker 1: His new book is called What Happened.
Speaker 3: Inside the Bush White House and Washington's Culture of Deception.
Speaker 1: Please welcome back to the program, Scott McClellan, Sir, hellyer,
Speaker 1: I'm doing great.
Speaker 4: I don't know that I'm top Fred, but I'm doing well.
Speaker 3: Welcome Brett is all right? He really should have read
Speaker 3: your book. Nothing against you? Your book with you reading it.
Speaker 3: It's actually a very good book and I read it
Speaker 3: over the weekend.
Speaker 1: What happened? You're taking a lot of heat for this.
Speaker 1: You talked about fight club.
Speaker 3: And uh, and now they've they've come out and they've
Speaker 3: hit you with he was disgruntled. What else have they said?
Speaker 3: You were out of the loop? These are all the
Speaker 3: administration officials.
Speaker 1: Are they.
Speaker 3: Destroying you in the way that you thought they would?
Speaker 3: Does this miss the McClellan touch? You know you were
Speaker 3: there when Richard Clark did his book. You had some
Speaker 3: some tough things to say about him.
Speaker 4: I saw him the other night, Richard Clark, Did you really?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 4: And I apologized to him. I hadn't even read his book,
Speaker 4: and I was describing these motivations to him based on
Speaker 4: the talking points that we use at the.
Speaker 3: White House on Here's because you had said Richard Clark, he.
Speaker 1: Doesn't know anything. He was gone for a year and
Speaker 1: a half. What is it? How would you destroy you?
Speaker 1: What would you what would you use on you? As well?
Speaker 4: I think the White House has probably been a little
Speaker 4: bit more personal than I expected. It was a little
Speaker 4: surprising how personal some of it got, But I think
Speaker 4: I would have stayed away from that. I think when
Speaker 4: people see the book and get a chance to read it,
Speaker 4: they see my sincerity in that what I'm saying in there.
Speaker 3: My seasm is mild, and especially compared to so many
Speaker 3: other books previously that have said similar things.
Speaker 4: I mean, they're kind of turning this into gotcha points,
Speaker 4: and there's really a larger message in here that is
Speaker 4: one that I think a lot of us really want
Speaker 4: to see happen, which is in the partisan warfare in Washington, DC,
Speaker 4: and let us move beyond it.
Speaker 3: Here's my favorite one they've been using on you roll
Speaker 3: the tape that they got here.
Speaker 7: This is not the Scott we knew.
Speaker 4: It's just inconsistent with the individual that we knew is
Speaker 4: Scott McClellan, the press secretary.
Speaker 1: Maybe this was a news guy.
Speaker 3: The voice that comes out of this book is certainly
Speaker 3: not Scott McClellan's. Is Scott has said things that really
Speaker 3: don't want sound like Scott.
Speaker 1: Frankly, this doesn't sound like Scott. This is amazing. Their
Speaker 1: argument here is you're not you.
Speaker 4: That I'm finally speaking for myself, but I'm not me.
Speaker 4: If they look at the book and get a chance
Speaker 4: to read it, they'll see who I am, and that's
Speaker 4: who I am. I grew up as an idealistic guy
Speaker 4: who wanted to get involved in politics, joined the governor's staff,
Speaker 4: thinking we could change Washington like he had done in Texas,
Speaker 4: where he was a very popular bipartisan guy, and got
Speaker 4: there and things going to turn out.
Speaker 1: Quite the way we happened. The this is not Scott.
Speaker 3: Take me into the meeting where they brainstorm the terrible
Speaker 3: things they're going to say.
Speaker 1: About I'm sure this is sure. Who's who's in that meeting?
Speaker 4: Sure, I'm sure there was a discussion probably in the
Speaker 4: communications or the counselor's office who oversees communication.
Speaker 1: Who's in that?
Speaker 4: That'd be Ed Gillespie, the communications director?
Speaker 1: Pay all right, he's the press.
Speaker 3: Would they say things like, uh, his brain was eaten
Speaker 3: by bats?
Speaker 1: That'll never work out? Body snatchers?
Speaker 4: They think it's out of body experience. That's what they
Speaker 4: used early on too.
Speaker 3: Really, they up on a blackboard and do they more.
Speaker 4: Talking amongst themselves and then coming up with those points and.
Speaker 3: Will they say, like, this will be a great point
Speaker 3: because it will make him look foolish. How explicit is
Speaker 3: the conversation?
Speaker 4: Well, I think it's yeah, how can we discredit this?
Speaker 4: I mean, this has got a powerful message and one
Speaker 4: that you know, it's not helpful to us right now,
Speaker 4: That's not the purpose of it. The purpose of it
Speaker 4: is something bigger, like I said, which is changing the
Speaker 4: way Washington works.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: But but see, I'm so interested in the way Washington
Speaker 3: actually works because good for you. No, not as a thinking,
Speaker 3: breathing sentient being the show.
Speaker 1: Yes, But.
Speaker 3: You know what I kind of want to figure out
Speaker 3: is because you talk a lot about how this process
Speaker 3: was applied to the Iraq war, Right, the same process
Speaker 3: that takes the what Happened book and comes up with
Speaker 3: a list of pejoratives was applied to war and policy.
Speaker 4: That's right. It's this permanent campaign culture that I talk
Speaker 4: about and how destructive it can become, particularly when it's
Speaker 4: used in matters of leading the nation to war, where
Speaker 4: you should be talking about the actual truths of the
Speaker 4: situation on the ground, so that expectations are known going
Speaker 4: in and we understand exactly what we're getting to see
Speaker 4: what the cost are, what the consequences are, what the risk.
Speaker 1: Are, what the costs are.
Speaker 3: Okay, For example, Lawrence Lindsay comes out in the run
Speaker 3: up to the war and somebody asks him how.
Speaker 1: Much is the work going to cost?
Speaker 3: And he says, I don't know, maybe one hundred billion,
Speaker 3: maybe two hundred million dollars. And you have to run
Speaker 3: then into the President's office and say, oh my god,
Speaker 3: somebody just mentioned something that's true.
Speaker 4: Actually, I was traveling with him that day and I
Speaker 4: had to wander before he saw the press, just in
Speaker 4: case he got asked about it. He wasn't planing taking questions,
Speaker 4: and he was pretty steemed about it because it wasn't
Speaker 4: part of the message that we were trying to get
Speaker 4: out at the moment. He was really making news that
Speaker 4: we didn't want made, and that's a big no no
Speaker 4: in the administration.
Speaker 3: How was that You mentioned in the book that this
Speaker 3: was not willful deception?
Speaker 1: Right? How is that not willful deception?
Speaker 4: Well, what happens is that this becomes part of the
Speaker 4: culture in Washington.
Speaker 3: This is the way both both parties engaging. If somebody
Speaker 3: to two hundred million dollars and you say, yeah, don't
Speaker 3: tell him that.
Speaker 1: Just tell him it'll pay for itself.
Speaker 3: It.
Speaker 4: Don't want to tell him anything.
Speaker 1: That was the thing.
Speaker 3: Well, no guys came out and said it'll pay for itself.
Speaker 3: Well too, absolutely, so that's a lie they knew.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know.
Speaker 4: Paul Wolfootz I think was one of those who said that,
Speaker 4: the Deputy Secretary of Defense, and maybe he really believed
Speaker 4: it or convinced himself. I don't know, but it was
Speaker 4: essentially off.
Speaker 3: Nobody made a willful decision. Don't talk about the price,
Speaker 3: because that truth.
Speaker 4: May make people think twice about it and the cost.
Speaker 4: The cost that concerned me more, of course, is the
Speaker 4: human costs, the irrevocable human cause this.
Speaker 3: Was just the one example the irrevocable human costs everything.
Speaker 3: Isn't that the very definition of deception?
Speaker 4: Well yeah, and the question is if we start saying,
Speaker 4: is this deliberate or is this intentional, or you look
Speaker 4: at it in a different light.
Speaker 1: If it's just just the way everybody does.
Speaker 3: They that's what we've got to stop. If they sat
Speaker 3: in a room and said, when we go to campaign
Speaker 3: for this war, let's not tell them how much it costs.
Speaker 3: Let's not mention it. That's a sin of omission. That's
Speaker 3: a lie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a there's no there's really no difference whether
Speaker 4: it's deliberate or intentional, or or it is or not. Well,
Speaker 4: they're both problematic in their own.
Speaker 1: They're not both problematic.
Speaker 3: One is homicide, the others involuntary.
Speaker 4: Mons could be criminal for instance.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. That's my point, isn't But in
Speaker 1: the book you make it, You make it very clear.
Speaker 3: You go out of your way to say you don't
Speaker 3: think it's intentional, and I don't. But I haven't seen
Speaker 3: any evidence that it's not intentional because everything was done
Speaker 3: with a forethought. It may not have been done with malice,
Speaker 3: so it may not be first degree murder, but it
Speaker 3: was done with a forethought.
Speaker 1: See.
Speaker 3: I think these are good people.
Speaker 4: They just got caught up in this whole.
Speaker 1: It was done with a forethought.
Speaker 3: They sat in a room and told They sat in
Speaker 3: a room with each other and said, don't tell them
Speaker 3: any of the bad consequences that could come of this war,
Speaker 3: because we really want to do this.
Speaker 4: I don't think it was just like that.
Speaker 1: Tell me what wasn't like that?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 4: I think it was more talking about what's the strongest
Speaker 4: possible case we can make. It was talking about what we.
Speaker 3: Do we really want to do this, Well, it could
Speaker 3: cost two hundred billion dollars. Don't mention that you're in
Speaker 3: there thousands of people may die. Yeah, you might not
Speaker 3: want to bring that up. Now, what if they call
Speaker 3: me in front of Congress to testify about it?
Speaker 1: Just say something isn't that We're gonna take commercial.
Speaker 11: We'll be right back with God McCallin the book is
Speaker 11: called What Happened. Actually, I actually enjoyed the book.
Speaker 3: It was Here's what I find so fascinating. And this
Speaker 3: has to do with the media's role in all this
Speaker 3: and the way that, uh, you say that they were complicit.
Speaker 3: Ari Fleischer, who was your predecessor, and Karl Rove, who,
Speaker 3: whether you believe he has good intentions or not, clearly
Speaker 3: is the strategic head of the propaganda in the street.
Speaker 3: Blush white House were hired by news organizations, literally spent
Speaker 3: their entire careers over the past few years lying to them,
Speaker 3: or or to put it more pleasantly, obfuscating. And the
Speaker 3: people that they did that too, went, you guys are great.
Speaker 1: And they hired them. How is that not.
Speaker 3: Uh, I don't know from low self esteem?
Speaker 1: Why would they do that?
Speaker 3: Why would they continue to aid these relationship.
Speaker 4: In d C? That's way you know, they view them
Speaker 4: as the brilliant strategist that operates under these game rules
Speaker 4: and does a great job.
Speaker 1: So you know, we.
Speaker 3: Value what he has to say. Is it now like
Speaker 3: when like it's like a bad movie where they get
Speaker 3: like a jewel thief and go, now you work for
Speaker 3: the cops?
Speaker 1: You know? Is it that kind of thing, like what
Speaker 1: the hell is going on?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's they're complicit in creating this whole environment that
Speaker 4: exists in DC, and I think we need to re
Speaker 4: evaluate that.
Speaker 3: But can we reevaluate it before we get candor on
Speaker 3: the situation? You talk about the that straight, right, you
Speaker 3: need that first. You talk about them veering off course. Right,
Speaker 3: from my perspective, they've been on the same course all along,
Speaker 3: from the day one that they started. When the President says,
Speaker 3: I trust the American people's judgment was both because backstage
Speaker 3: they were creating secrecy and rearranging the rules. From day one,
Speaker 3: they were creating a facade.
Speaker 4: So here here's the difference. Just to my view, I mean,
Speaker 4: I I was there I'm very I still have a
Speaker 4: personal affection for the president, but you've got to separate
Speaker 4: your personal affection from his actions and deeds. And that's
Speaker 4: what I was able to do once I stepped out
Speaker 4: of that.
Speaker 1: All white personally.
Speaker 3: So all I have or actually haven't had him.
Speaker 1: You haven't had him on yet. He hasn't been here yet.
Speaker 3: But but what do you say about that the entire
Speaker 3: presidency was a facade of public manipulation?
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't agree the entire presidency, but there's
Speaker 4: certainly a lot of it. We're certainly a lot of it.
Speaker 4: I think he I think he is very sincere in
Speaker 4: his beliefs, but he takes it to like and many
Speaker 4: other politicians does do, and and engages in that way.
Speaker 1: That's the problem.
Speaker 3: Doesn't he say, I know what's best for the country,
Speaker 3: and your job is to help me sell that to
Speaker 3: the American people without them realizing what we're really doing.
Speaker 4: Well, he didn't say it that way to me, but
Speaker 4: he did.
Speaker 1: He did.
Speaker 3: He did say, your job is isn't that?
Speaker 1: Isn't that your the gist of how Washington works? Now,
Speaker 1: It's one way.
Speaker 3: Look at if we make the arguments on the basis
Speaker 3: of the actual argument we lose.
Speaker 1: Let's not make it on that basis.
Speaker 4: There is absolutely there's some of that that you can't
Speaker 4: win by being as open and forthright as you should be.
Speaker 4: And that's the big problem. And one of the things
Speaker 4: I talk about in the end about how we need
Speaker 4: to start with that and then go to some other
Speaker 4: ways when they save us this end. No, it's starting
Speaker 4: it before us. It's been going on for fifteen years.
Speaker 4: How bad this is, and you know both candidates are
Speaker 4: now talking about ending it.
Speaker 3: Here's my last thing on your last day? Can you
Speaker 3: play the clip of his last day with the president?
Speaker 9: And one of these days he and I are going
Speaker 9: to be rocking the chairs in Texas talking about the
Speaker 9: good old days.
Speaker 5: Okay, I want you to show me something, all right,
Speaker 5: So here are the chairs.
Speaker 1: I'll be the president, you can be you how close if.
Speaker 3: This is the porch, how close are you sitting? And
Speaker 3: where's Cheney with the gun? I appreciate what you're trying
Speaker 3: to do now, and I think candor is the only
Speaker 3: way to get past this, and I hope that other
Speaker 3: people take that lead.
Speaker 1: What happened is on the bookshelves now. Scott mccollin.
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Speaker 9: searching the Daily Show wherever you get your podcasts.
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