Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Andy Johnson from the Friday Egg. I
Speaker 1: had a great trip out to sand Hills over the
Speaker 1: weekend in an awesome chat with Kyle Heglund. They're superintendent.
Speaker 1: We sat down in between rounds in the sand Hills
Speaker 1: Library and the conversation just kind of started, so we
Speaker 1: ran with it.
Speaker 2: So that's why there's no usual introduction.
Speaker 1: Enjoy the podcast and be sure to subscribe to the
Speaker 1: newsletter to keep up to date with all the other
Speaker 1: sand Hills content that will be posted over the next
Speaker 1: few days. As always, thanks for listening, and without further ado,
Speaker 1: here's Kyle Heglund.
Speaker 2: I miss a green for example, I'm already upset when
Speaker 2: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball.
Speaker 1: In a bride egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg
Speaker 1: Frida egg, Frida egg brid egg Frida egg bride egg Lie.
Speaker 3: I'm about ready to run off with the huff course.
Speaker 3: How many superintendents have a wider range of temperatures.
Speaker 2: Than you have?
Speaker 3: I would guess not many.
Speaker 4: I mean it's you know, we have a lot of
Speaker 4: things that really go in our direction, like but the
Speaker 4: temperature extremes are tough.
Speaker 3: Like we had a day two years ago in November.
Speaker 4: It was seventy seven degrees on a Sunday at I
Speaker 4: was in Wisconsin three years ago because it was when
Speaker 4: Michigan State played Ohio State and got our asses kicked.
Speaker 4: And I was in Wisconsin visiting family and I seen
Speaker 4: this weather come in and my assistant and I'm like, hey,
Speaker 4: we got a tart greens right now. So I called
Speaker 4: them Saturday night. They started tarping Sunday morning, called all
Speaker 4: these high school kids, everybody we could get, and and
Speaker 4: then I got it. Takes me twelve hours to get home.
Speaker 4: I got here about I left. Yeah, I got hear
Speaker 4: about seven.
Speaker 3: O'clock in the evening and it was still seventy degrees
Speaker 3: out and by noon the next day on Monday, thirteen
Speaker 3: below zero. Thirteen below zero. Like we were just we
Speaker 3: I mean it was we got everything done. We missed
Speaker 3: like one spot on the on six the back right
Speaker 3: corner there our tarp was ripped and we got that
Speaker 3: done two days later and it died. Like that's how
Speaker 3: we could have lost the whole all the greens and
Speaker 3: then think that quick. So it's not it's not more
Speaker 3: or less difficult. It's just different. You know.
Speaker 4: You just have to you have to be adaptable out here,
Speaker 4: you just won't make it, and you have to. Superintendent's
Speaker 4: love regimes and schedules. I hate, like if you start
Speaker 4: telling me at your schedule, then I'd start stop listening
Speaker 4: to you. That's that's just a fact. I just don't
Speaker 4: I don't dig that. So and we just can't out here.
Speaker 4: So we just tried to try to be creative.
Speaker 2: I draft people in nuts because I never have a schedule.
Speaker 2: I like you already, I don't know what time my
Speaker 2: teeth time is for like a tournament, until I set
Speaker 2: my alarm at night, I look and say, oh, I
Speaker 2: gotta get up at six thirty.
Speaker 4: My brother is just the like he would plan out
Speaker 4: tomorrow right now to the minute. Like I know, it
Speaker 4: just makes you too constricted, and you just can't do
Speaker 4: it out here in my position, because if you try
Speaker 4: to say what the weather is gonna do, you're just
Speaker 4: gonna get your ass kicked.
Speaker 2: And it seems like it just that happens.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So we have a lot of those we have,
Speaker 4: you know, and it can be one hundred and ten
Speaker 4: and you know, we had you're my son was born
Speaker 4: twenty twelve. We averaged one hundred and two point three
Speaker 4: was our daytime, I average, we were like one hundred
Speaker 4: and twelve for like seven days, and then we've had
Speaker 4: you know, like this August. We never got out of
Speaker 4: the seventies or two weeks in August. So, I mean,
Speaker 4: it just it just goes up. And now we're a
Speaker 4: thirty three hundred feet elevation. That's part of it, you know.
Speaker 4: It's just it's a very unique little spot in the country,
Speaker 4: and the weather comes in and out pretty quickly, and
Speaker 4: if you don't have shit together, you're gonna get your
Speaker 4: ass kicked. You know, it's just what's gonna happen. So
Speaker 4: we we don't deal with humidity. You know, we don't
Speaker 4: have hardly. That's as much humidity as we're ever gonna have.
Speaker 4: It was on a day like today, you know, we
Speaker 4: just don't get a lot of that.
Speaker 2: It wasn't really humid, it was more windy.
Speaker 3: It was Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean even then, it's still it's still a
Speaker 4: little sticky for me. My sister lives in Milwaukee, and
Speaker 4: I was back visiting her this summer for just a
Speaker 4: couple of days. And it was a week before the
Speaker 4: US Open. I'm like, oh my god, how did I
Speaker 4: live here? I think it was like eighty degrees.
Speaker 3: It was just unbearable. It was so thick and sticky,
Speaker 3: and so we don't have to deal with that.
Speaker 2: So so tell us about how you got into being
Speaker 2: a superintendent, like you know, and you know.
Speaker 3: Your job's working up to I just I needed a job.
Speaker 4: I played baseball legion ball junior bay Ruth and I
Speaker 4: needed john that got me done early. So I had
Speaker 4: some buddies that started working at a golf course in
Speaker 4: New Glaris, Aida Way's country Club. It's nothing fancy. Started
Speaker 4: working there like that, thought it was fun. Had never
Speaker 4: played golf before one time, started playing a little bit
Speaker 4: of golf.
Speaker 3: Worked there.
Speaker 4: I think I was a sophomore, I don't know, maybe
Speaker 4: as a junior when I started doing that. So I
Speaker 4: worked there through high school in the summer and you know,
Speaker 4: you work in the fall and what have you and
Speaker 4: go to college. My freshman year University of Wisconsin, Stevens
Speaker 4: Point just didn't really I didn't know what I wanted
Speaker 4: to do, as most kids that age don't know what
Speaker 4: they want to do. And my superintendent who I didn't
Speaker 4: even know that. I didn't even know that was his title.
Speaker 4: He comes up to me, he's like, hey, you ever
Speaker 4: thought of doing this? I'm like, doing what what.
Speaker 3: Is this that you do?
Speaker 4: And you know, so he just started talking to me like, hey,
Speaker 4: you know this, you kind of got a knack for it, and.
Speaker 3: I think you'd be good.
Speaker 4: You should take some classes or something and see if
Speaker 4: you like it. And that's what I did, and I
Speaker 4: don't know why. I just liked it and like saying,
Speaker 4: you know, I'm transferred to Michigan State and from there
Speaker 4: I was all in. Was really fortunate too. I had
Speaker 4: one of my really good friends had worked up at
Speaker 4: Crystal Downs, if you can believe that, and I didn't
Speaker 4: even know what Crystal Downs was at the time.
Speaker 3: I had no idea about golf architecture or any of that.
Speaker 4: And I just went up with him on some weekend
Speaker 4: when I was at Michigan State, maybe a couple of
Speaker 4: weeks in and was like, holy shit, what was that
Speaker 4: all about? And then that's where my love for golf
Speaker 4: architecture really started. And I was like, I gotta know
Speaker 4: more about this. This is amazing and I so you
Speaker 4: got to do internships, and at Michigan State you could
Speaker 4: do a six month you know, an internship and extended one.
Speaker 3: And I just knew I didn't want to work.
Speaker 4: Or they had winners. I grew up in Wisconsin. I
Speaker 4: hated winner So I just got lucky. I wanted to
Speaker 4: go work for a real good, a real talented superintendent,
Speaker 4: and that was Doug Peterson. And they were just starting
Speaker 4: to build, you know, Austin Golf Club, which is Ben's
Speaker 4: home club in Austin, Texas. I went down there and
Speaker 4: you know, they're in the middle of building. It's Ben
Speaker 4: and Bill and not Bill as much as he is
Speaker 4: a most projects, but Dave, you know, Dan Proctor, Dave Excellent,
Speaker 4: James Duncan, all those guys are down there and I'm
Speaker 4: just this stupid twenty year whatever year old kid, just
Speaker 4: trying to not say anything stupid. And they were awesome
Speaker 4: to me. They just let me listen and just be
Speaker 4: a fly on the wall and including me and all
Speaker 4: that stuff is just an intern and yeah, and then
Speaker 4: I was all in. I was living with my boss,
Speaker 4: Doug Peterson. He had a wonderful library like this of
Speaker 4: golf architecture.
Speaker 3: And it was he let me just read. So I'd
Speaker 3: go and soak it up all day, and then I
Speaker 3: would just go read you know George Thomas or you
Speaker 3: know The Lynx or that kind of stuff at night,
Speaker 3: and I was all in. From then on, I was
Speaker 3: all in.
Speaker 2: So what's your favorite architecture book?
Speaker 3: Oh man, there's so many good ones. I really love.
Speaker 3: You know, McKenzie's The Spirit of Saint Andrews. I try
Speaker 3: to give that.
Speaker 4: That's that's a book I've gifted twenty five times. I
Speaker 4: think I think you can still get a gcsua a
Speaker 4: show for like five bucks.
Speaker 3: I have.
Speaker 4: I just think I still have like ten copies of it.
Speaker 4: That human kind of like golf architecture. You used to
Speaker 4: start reading that.
Speaker 2: That's why I gave that. A buddy of mine wanted it.
Speaker 2: He's like, let me get a golf course architecture book
Speaker 2: to read. And I gave him that and he read it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he read in like three days. He was like, oh,
Speaker 2: that was awesome.
Speaker 3: And it could be in it. It's so true today.
Speaker 4: I mean, so many of his things are still you know,
Speaker 4: whether it's bunkers or maintenance or you know, committee, it's
Speaker 4: the Yeah, it's so good. And there's so many good
Speaker 4: I mean there's a lot of great books. You know,
Speaker 4: Shackle for its books, and you know, I would just
Speaker 4: stare at that Cypress point book like just like you know,
Speaker 4: like I think kids that are twenty probably stare at
Speaker 4: you know, a Playboy or Maxim or whatever. I was
Speaker 4: just you know, Cypress point book, going holy shit, what
Speaker 4: is this?
Speaker 3: And so that's I'm a golf architecture dork.
Speaker 4: And and uh I was fortunately just go work for
Speaker 4: some really great people that Harvard harvested that and challenged
Speaker 4: me to be a good superintendent or you know, up
Speaker 4: and coming superintendent. So I got to go back and
Speaker 4: work for Doug and I worked for him for I'm
Speaker 4: old seven eight years and and.
Speaker 3: Then Dick took a chance on me.
Speaker 4: I was twenty seven years old, and I when I
Speaker 4: got this job, which seems kind of scary when you
Speaker 4: say that out loud right now, you know, he entrusted me,
Speaker 4: and I'll always be grateful for that. Yeah, it was,
Speaker 4: but you know, to be honest with you, they you know,
Speaker 4: they interviewed my she was my fiance, now it's my wife.
Speaker 4: They interviewed her harder than me. They wanted to make
Speaker 4: sure Ashley. My wife was, it's gonna be okay living
Speaker 4: in Mulla, Nebraska and we're fortunate. We love we love Mullen.
Speaker 4: We're fortunate and have you know, it's like family out
Speaker 4: here to us. And my kids are Mullen Nights. And
Speaker 4: we're proud of Malon Broncos. That's for sure.
Speaker 2: Hey State Chance in basketball. They are huge, very proud
Speaker 2: of that.
Speaker 4: I'm very, very proud of that unbelievable story. It is
Speaker 4: a great story. Rusty more of their head basketball coaches,
Speaker 4: my closest friend, and I mean, I I tear up
Speaker 4: a little bit just thinking about it. Honestly, it's kind
Speaker 4: of amazing.
Speaker 2: Story.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well it's it's it's it's what's great about sports,
Speaker 4: whether it's golf or basketball or whatever, when you see
Speaker 4: kids work hard and accomplish something that they worked hard
Speaker 4: for and that was.
Speaker 3: A lot of fun.
Speaker 2: So you moved from Austin, Texas to Nebraska. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: what's a stretch when you came out here for like
Speaker 2: your first time? I mean like what was I mean?
Speaker 2: Did you just fall in love with the golf course
Speaker 2: and and then you know, figure, this is a once
Speaker 2: in a lifetime opportunity to you know, work at maybe
Speaker 2: arguably the world's greatest golf course, or you know, the
Speaker 2: greatest modern golf course for sure.
Speaker 4: I will I was roommates with a kid who's a
Speaker 4: Superintendent's name was Tony Nice.
Speaker 2: And he's down at U. What is it, Old marsh.
Speaker 4: Old marsh Yeah, And he reminded me that I told
Speaker 4: him I was gonna be the superintendent sand Hills when
Speaker 4: I graduated from Michigan State.
Speaker 3: I kind of forgot that.
Speaker 4: I just always was in love with what sand Hills was.
Speaker 4: If you had really told me.
Speaker 3: How to ended up here, I would have said bullshit.
Speaker 3: But yes, I understood the gravity.
Speaker 4: And the largeness of what I was coming up here
Speaker 4: to interview for.
Speaker 3: And you know, I looked at my fiance at the time.
Speaker 3: I was like, Hey, you don't think you can do it,
Speaker 3: then we can't do it. But in reality, I was like,
Speaker 3: we're gonna do this. But doing what I do for
Speaker 3: a living, you know, it's unfortunate and I'm blessed.
Speaker 4: I try not to be that guy, but we just
Speaker 4: try to smell the roses a lot and try to
Speaker 4: have fun. And there's not a lot of fun in
Speaker 4: the golf industry. Anymore, and everybody wants to bitch and
Speaker 4: moan and complain about.
Speaker 3: How hard it is or how difficult it is. And
Speaker 3: I'm not saying it's not. I just like that we
Speaker 3: have a lot of fun and we enjoy being where
Speaker 3: we're at. We don't take it for granted.
Speaker 4: We work hard, we think we do really good work,
Speaker 4: but we also we think we have as much fun
Speaker 4: as anybody does. We encourage, you know, our interns and
Speaker 4: kids that work for us to play golf, have fun,
Speaker 4: go out there and play. I'm biased now, so I
Speaker 4: can say what I think is the best golf course worse,
Speaker 4: you know, I've ever been on, and I want those
Speaker 4: kids and people.
Speaker 3: To go out and and enjoy that. It's it's pretty
Speaker 3: cool backyard.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's I mean, the thing I take away
Speaker 2: from this place is like, and you can hit every
Speaker 2: type of shot you want and it never it never
Speaker 2: forces you to hit one unless you put yourself in
Speaker 2: a position that you have to hit one. But in
Speaker 2: terms of from the fairway, I mean, it's, uh, the
Speaker 2: strategy is unmatched in terms of, hey, there's this really
Speaker 2: intimidating and I think the scale is what does such
Speaker 2: a good job because it intimidates you. Yeah, and it
Speaker 2: forces you to play safer than you might want to
Speaker 2: because you're like, I don't want to be in this
Speaker 2: twenty five foot bunker. And then once you do that,
Speaker 2: every single foot off that aggressive line, you get a
Speaker 2: worse and worse angle and you pay it. And it's
Speaker 2: a beautiful thing for the people that believe long grass
Speaker 2: is the answer to defending part.
Speaker 4: Well, you know we it's our philosophy. It's a it
Speaker 4: should always be about playability. We want you guys coming
Speaker 4: out and playing golf, have it fun. You know, I'll
Speaker 4: quote Bill directly. I do it all the time. My
Speaker 4: guys get tired of it. Hey, Gos's supposed to be fun,
Speaker 4: you know, and we just wanted that have fun. So
Speaker 4: we want it to play hard, firm, and fast. We
Speaker 4: want you to not lose any balls if humanly possible.
Speaker 4: And we talked about that earlier with you guys, about
Speaker 4: how we've you guys made a comment about our you know,
Speaker 4: our native grasses being you know, quite playable, and we're
Speaker 4: really really proud of that.
Speaker 3: That's a lot of work.
Speaker 4: And a lot of a lot of blood, sweat and
Speaker 4: tears making those what they are, but we're very, very
Speaker 4: proud of those because we want you to go out
Speaker 4: there and go, hey, I hit some bad shots.
Speaker 3: I didn't lose any balls.
Speaker 4: I mean, you guys are out there today was wind
Speaker 4: was going thirty five miles an hour.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's awesome. I mean that's a huge compliment.
Speaker 3: I you know, I I take that as a huge compliment.
Speaker 3: I shouldn't say that's what you guys didn't say. It
Speaker 3: was a compliment. But we're proud of that, and that's
Speaker 3: I know, that's what been a Bill want. You know,
Speaker 3: I've talked with those guys a lot about just.
Speaker 4: You know, I think Superintendent's lose sight of that a lot,
Speaker 4: like they get worried about how it looks or what
Speaker 4: this was going to do and how it's gonna We
Speaker 4: just wanted to be to play the exact way that
Speaker 4: Ben and Bill wanted to play, and we strive hard
Speaker 4: for that to be as playable as possible, as many
Speaker 4: days as possible.
Speaker 2: I would say that the natives have to be one
Speaker 2: of the most important aspects of the golf course. And
Speaker 2: I mean I was at a golf course a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks ago, and it's a newer course, and they
Speaker 2: the course used to be an apple orchard. So they
Speaker 2: have trouble with their their natives because of the apple trees,
Speaker 2: you know, suck so many of the certain nutrients out,
Speaker 2: and then there was such a you know, a ton
Speaker 2: of the other nutrients. And so this native stuff, I mean,
Speaker 2: it's like seven feet high, is it? And they didn't
Speaker 2: know that because they didn't they didn't go through all
Speaker 2: the testing, which would have cost a lot of money.
Speaker 2: But you know, in terms of native grasses, it's the
Speaker 2: one of the hardest things to maintain.
Speaker 4: Well, well I don't I mean, man, how many pictures
Speaker 4: have you guys seen where you see this picture of
Speaker 4: native grass and it's like the most sterile like, Man,
Speaker 4: I don't want a monesstand of anything. I don't want
Speaker 4: to mona stand on my fairways. I don't want to
Speaker 4: mona stand on my greens.
Speaker 3: That's not natural, that doesn't look natural. That's Ben Crenshaw
Speaker 3: what he thinks of a monastand of anything. And native
Speaker 3: is the most striking thing if it's just you see
Speaker 3: it all the time, just this perfectly manicured rescue that's
Speaker 3: four feet tall, and you'd lose every ball in the
Speaker 3: world in it, like, hey, that's not native and b
Speaker 3: that doesn't look natural at all.
Speaker 4: I think we miss that a lot, and we're we
Speaker 4: try not to. We try to make sure it looks
Speaker 4: We'll take those imperfections. We're okay with some broad leaves,
Speaker 4: We're okay with.
Speaker 3: Some other things in there. That's fine.
Speaker 4: You know, we want you to look out and go. Man,
Speaker 4: that golf course blended right into the rest of its
Speaker 4: surroundings instead of stuck out.
Speaker 2: So at Austin Golf Club, you you've worked your internship
Speaker 2: there and then you immediately got hired there.
Speaker 4: Right after Yeah, after I graduated. Yes, so you got
Speaker 4: to lowly second assistant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you got to see that golf course mature
Speaker 2: over the years. And and just I'm kind of curious
Speaker 2: in terms of like how you see, like, you know,
Speaker 2: how long does it take a new course to really
Speaker 2: finally settle in and become what is it?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: How paid is it?
Speaker 1: Three?
Speaker 2: Is it five years? Is it?
Speaker 3: It's a good question. I think there is.
Speaker 4: I think every site's a little I mean, that's a
Speaker 4: really a cop out of an answer. Every site's a
Speaker 4: little bit specific. You gotta have the right leadership and
Speaker 4: be okay with you know, the slower the better. Let's
Speaker 4: get it all right the first time, so you don't
Speaker 4: have to go back and correct.
Speaker 3: Some of that stuff. And you're not going to get
Speaker 3: it all right the first time. I mean, that's just
Speaker 3: not the way.
Speaker 4: You're not going to just swing and hit every you know,
Speaker 4: you might want to move this grass line or take
Speaker 4: these trees out or what I mean. Wherever it is
Speaker 4: at Austin Golf Clube, I would say, yeah, it took
Speaker 4: a couple I.
Speaker 3: Think we opened in one.
Speaker 4: Man, I'm old, I forget all that stuff now, but
Speaker 4: it's probably two years before you really get all your
Speaker 4: stuff really dialed in.
Speaker 3: That's a hard golf Have you played off alcohol?
Speaker 2: I haven't.
Speaker 4: That is that's a hard that's my opinion only. That's
Speaker 4: the hardest corn crench out course I played. That's hard
Speaker 4: golf course.
Speaker 3: And yeah, it took a while to mature that.
Speaker 4: And we and we moved tree lines, and we moved
Speaker 4: grass lines around quite a bit here and there, and
Speaker 4: and uh yeah, it just takes some time. And we're
Speaker 4: still doing that. That's Sandhills. We do that every year.
Speaker 4: So we're we just turned over. We're over twenty. So
Speaker 4: you know, Ben and Bill always won a golf course,
Speaker 4: you know they you know, that's initially how they described
Speaker 4: sand hills. And how we got into so many issues
Speaker 4: with some of the bunkers is they just wanted them
Speaker 4: to breathe and grow and be, you know, an organic experience. Well,
Speaker 4: what happens is our our winners are so harsh out here,
Speaker 4: like those bunkers, you want to talk about it, they
Speaker 4: would just they would go hundreds of yards and then
Speaker 4: you're not only are you destroying grass and everything else,
Speaker 4: but you're losing some of the intent of some of
Speaker 4: the original bunkers.
Speaker 3: So then they started figuring out that they really had
Speaker 3: to work hard to keep bunkers where they were.
Speaker 4: And man, it was my first year. I don't get
Speaker 4: any credit for it, but we started spraying a product
Speaker 4: in our bunkers as soon as we close, called soiltech,
Speaker 4: sets up like concrete in them, and then we till
Speaker 4: it all out in the spring when we're done.
Speaker 3: But then then we don't have to worry about those
Speaker 3: bunkers going anywhere.
Speaker 4: And once we figured out that we could keep the
Speaker 4: sand where it was over winter, then we started figuring out,
Speaker 4: like hey, this is what we got to do. This
Speaker 4: fairway bunker is five feet deeper than it needs to be.
Speaker 4: And we're those two fairway bunkers on one those were
Speaker 4: six seven eight feet deeper six seven years ago than
Speaker 4: they are right now. You hit them in, there's wedge
Speaker 4: only out of there. And I mean, Bill and Ben,
Speaker 4: I can't imagine if they'll listen to this or not,
Speaker 4: but they would laugh because I was like, this is
Speaker 4: way too hard. This is not how they intended these
Speaker 4: to play. So I just started bitching and moaning and
Speaker 4: complaining enough that we have to do something to these.
Speaker 4: And we worked with Dick and we we just we
Speaker 4: took it very very seriously because you can't just go
Speaker 4: into our native start tearing grass up and moving sand around,
Speaker 4: because those scars will be there for five, six, seven,
Speaker 4: eight years. So we kind of had to be creative,
Speaker 4: and we we thought we came up with a pretty
Speaker 4: good plan. And here we are, you know, we're about
Speaker 4: we're just about done. We got a few more bunkers.
Speaker 4: We really want to work on it. We'll always have
Speaker 4: a couple of bunkers just because of the way nature
Speaker 4: moves out here. But yeah, we're proud of came up
Speaker 4: with just a very low key, small plan and pushing,
Speaker 4: you know, moving sand in and just being methodical saying
Speaker 4: these are just five worst bunkers, let's get those downe
Speaker 4: in this fall, and if we get some weather that
Speaker 4: holds up, let's get five more done, you know, and
Speaker 4: just going from there. So that's kind of a long
Speaker 4: way to answer the store answer the question.
Speaker 2: But hey, it's a long I apologize. No, no, and
Speaker 2: it's it's it's it's interesting. I mean, there's so when
Speaker 2: you're closing, you know, most people want to know this Monday,
Speaker 2: they're closing on Monday. And yes, you said to me
Speaker 2: earlier in the week that that's when the work starts. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so you you know, I think sand Hills is unbelievable.
Speaker 2: I think from like your end of the spectrum is
Speaker 2: you've got one hundred plus degree summers and then you
Speaker 2: get to winter and it can be negative thirty out here.
Speaker 2: So what goes into prepping for winter.
Speaker 4: The first thing we do is spray soil tech. I
Speaker 4: mean that's like that's like project number one. Because you
Speaker 4: guys are out there today. If it's super dry and
Speaker 4: it's blown like that, I mean, you can move quite
Speaker 4: a bit of sand in the day. But we'll get
Speaker 4: days with a blow fifty five sixty for twenty four
Speaker 4: or forty eight hours straight and that can straight move
Speaker 4: some sand. So our biggest thing is let's get those
Speaker 4: bunkers cleaned up, held in place, get those out of
Speaker 4: the way.
Speaker 3: And then we just start top dress and everything.
Speaker 4: And it depends on each year and how you know,
Speaker 4: we might have some bunker work that we're working on.
Speaker 4: But first thing we'll do is we'll probably just you know,
Speaker 4: like a solid time greens and surrounds, and because we can't,
Speaker 4: nobody's out here playing.
Speaker 3: Once we're closed, nobody plays the golf course again, so we.
Speaker 2: Just put it's seventy five and October.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying I have.
Speaker 4: Outside of myself and Jared Kalina, you know, nobody plays.
Speaker 3: Out here, So no that you know those are you know,
Speaker 3: that's what we try to.
Speaker 4: Get at first and foremost, and then as you know,
Speaker 4: we just let's see what the weather does and we
Speaker 4: keep if we have If weather holds up, then we
Speaker 4: keep working on bunkers. And you know, we always have
Speaker 4: some car pass. You know, that's not very sexy or
Speaker 4: fun to talk about but those are all native car
Speaker 4: pass Those take work two and and we do that
Speaker 4: and and then we just started looking at the weather
Speaker 4: and as soon as we think the weather is going
Speaker 4: to you know, it's a little bit of a gamble.
Speaker 4: You know, we're trying to keep it wet as soon
Speaker 4: as we're closed, like I don't want to water anything.
Speaker 4: And then once we close, like I want to keep
Speaker 4: we want to be moist off, all of a sudden
Speaker 4: the weather falls through the bottom we're going to go in.
Speaker 3: Our biggest goal.
Speaker 4: Is to go into winter as wet as possible, because
Speaker 4: that just keeps us from drying out as long as
Speaker 4: I don't apparently I don't want to work any harder
Speaker 4: than I have to. And what we have to do
Speaker 4: in the winter if it drives out is we have
Speaker 4: to winter water, which is not a fun process and
Speaker 4: it's not rocket science, but it.
Speaker 3: Means we're out there in those terrible days and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's the what's the coldest it's ever been when
Speaker 2: you've been out doing stuff on.
Speaker 4: The course, Well, it's just hard to gauge. It's I'm
Speaker 4: so used to the wind anymore. It's it's just how
Speaker 4: how hard is the wind? Long the wind is just
Speaker 4: howling and it's forty it's pretty miserable out there. And
Speaker 4: we've had I mean, we'll have days in the spring
Speaker 4: where it's just like shut it down because everybody's.
Speaker 3: You can just you can just see people.
Speaker 4: Getting angry or and angrier as that bunker keeps pelting
Speaker 4: them in the face or you know, or just the wind.
Speaker 4: Even so, so what we want to do is close
Speaker 4: up and then we're thinking about we tarp greens and teas,
Speaker 4: which our bak grass, and that's usually somewhere around Thanksgiving,
Speaker 4: and then we blow out our irrigation system sometime after that.
Speaker 4: It's usually within a week or ten days of each other.
Speaker 4: And then we sit back and hope we get a
Speaker 4: bunch of moisture. If we get a bunch of moisture,
Speaker 4: you start crushing you know, spotted.
Speaker 3: Cows and gray goose. And if not, then you got
Speaker 3: a lot of work to do.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so we hope for we usually stay pretty cold
Speaker 4: and pretty dry through December and January, and then we
Speaker 4: usually you know, the weather starts really fluctuating in February
Speaker 4: and March, and that's when you can get these really
Speaker 4: massive you know, temperature swings where it can be fifty
Speaker 4: five in the day thirteen below at night.
Speaker 3: You know that's that's hard and grass. Yeah, so we
Speaker 3: think we've done a good job. I've been here eleven years.
Speaker 4: I would like to think we've gotten a little bit
Speaker 4: better each year, and each you know, our biggest challenge
Speaker 4: is coming out of winter. So if we if you
Speaker 4: come out here in March and you're walking around it
Speaker 4: sounds like you're walking on glass, it's not good.
Speaker 3: So I've had those years.
Speaker 4: We hope we don't have many of those years left
Speaker 4: in us. But and a lot of that is working
Speaker 4: the spring in the fall, whether it's terrifying and deep
Speaker 4: tying and planet airon and doing all that kind of stuff,
Speaker 4: and lots and lots and lots of top dressing. We
Speaker 4: I don't have to pay for sand, get the top
Speaker 4: dressed with the same sand that the whole golf course
Speaker 4: is built on. Believe me, I know how nice that is.
Speaker 4: But we throw a lot of sand. We just bury
Speaker 4: everythinking sand in the fall completely. So we'll top dress
Speaker 4: greens and teas and fairways, and as soon as we're done,
Speaker 4: we'll just start again. We'll just start again continually until the.
Speaker 3: Weather goes to hell.
Speaker 4: We've done it as many as four times, you know,
Speaker 4: before the weather goes completely bad.
Speaker 3: And then in the spring, same thing.
Speaker 4: We'll just keep top dressing and that helps the playability,
Speaker 4: that helps us keeping it firm, and eventually it was
Speaker 4: pretty thatchy and organicy when I got here ten years ago.
Speaker 4: And if you'd have told me it had taken me
Speaker 4: ten eleven years to get it where I kind of
Speaker 4: like it out of said, you're crazy. But it's a
Speaker 4: game of attrition, and you know, you get a little
Speaker 4: you're twenty seven, you think you're a lot smarter than
Speaker 4: when you're you know, thirty seven.
Speaker 2: So well also, I mean, if it's over ten years,
Speaker 2: I bet you know, it's accumulated a lot of like
Speaker 2: you know, material and the soil, so it takes a
Speaker 2: long time for that material to get out here. You
Speaker 2: can't do it overnight unless you just started fresh.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, we don't want to do anything during
Speaker 4: the season, so which is a little bit of a
Speaker 4: challenge and I'm certainly not complaining about.
Speaker 3: You just got to be creative.
Speaker 4: And what we found is, you know, when I first
Speaker 4: got here, was like, oh man, you really should try
Speaker 4: to get an verification during the golf season, and I
Speaker 4: was like, okay, and now it's like, why would we
Speaker 4: try to do that? Like we can just it just
Speaker 4: it made me be more creative and made me push
Speaker 4: the boundaries of what we can do with how we're
Speaker 4: trying to do things, and and it's made me a
Speaker 4: much better superintendent than I ever would have been anywhere else.
Speaker 4: That's I mean, whether or not I'm good or not,
Speaker 4: it's completely debatable, but it forced me to be creative
Speaker 4: and and Dick YOUNGSKP always forced me to creatively think
Speaker 4: my way through things, and he allowed me to make mistakes.
Speaker 4: And so we're proud of you guys. Can if we
Speaker 4: open the end of May, close the end of October.
Speaker 4: We'll top dressing there this once in a while, but
Speaker 4: we don't do any cultural practices outside. You'll come out.
Speaker 3: It's supposed to be as good today as it was,
Speaker 3: you know, May May twenty ninth, you know in theory.
Speaker 2: So where we like that when if you were if
Speaker 2: you were going to say when's the best time to
Speaker 2: come out here? I know you politically it has to
Speaker 2: be every day, you got it.
Speaker 3: We're not that political.
Speaker 4: I can say I would say anytime after like the
Speaker 4: mid mid August to the end of the season, the
Speaker 4: weather is just a lot more consistently good. Like you're
Speaker 4: just you're gonna get some ninety five days, and you're
Speaker 4: gonna get some sixty five days, but mostly it's good.
Speaker 4: Like there's plenty of days in July where it's one
Speaker 4: hundred and five and the winds blown thirty and it
Speaker 4: feels like you're you know, somebody's just falling around with
Speaker 4: the hot air, you know, blower a hair dryer, and
Speaker 4: that's not that fun.
Speaker 2: So this course is kind of the course that changed
Speaker 2: modern golf design. It was the first one that it
Speaker 2: was done with an extremely small budget. It was built
Speaker 2: for the peerness of being a great golf course and
Speaker 2: not for like a housing development. And you know, it
Speaker 2: brought back some many of the great Golden Age principles
Speaker 2: that you saw in a modern setting. So the man
Speaker 2: behind it all was Dick Young Scatt. Yes, sir, so
Speaker 2: tell us a little bit about you know that.
Speaker 3: Tell you about me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, man, I consider Dick a friend and I mean that,
Speaker 4: and I think he I think he reciprocates that.
Speaker 3: He is. He's just he is he is. I told
Speaker 3: you guys earlier. He has this great line of I.
Speaker 4: Have a lot of faults, but being misunderstood isn't one
Speaker 4: of them, and I think that is lovely.
Speaker 3: He is.
Speaker 4: He's my only boss. I don't have a committee, I
Speaker 4: don't have any of that kind of stuff. So we're
Speaker 4: allowed to be creative. You know, I can go, we
Speaker 4: sit down and we talk.
Speaker 3: If we have a problem, whether it's on a golf
Speaker 3: course or you know, whatever comes up on a superintendent,
Speaker 3: it could be a staff issue, we'll sit down and talk,
Speaker 3: get get to the bottom of it and move on.
Speaker 4: But he is a very unique guy and I'm very
Speaker 4: very fortunate to call him a mentor and a friend.
Speaker 4: And I've shared many many you know, bud lights with him,
Speaker 4: and I feel very very fortunate. And he's just a
Speaker 4: very interesting, unique person. He he has a very unique
Speaker 4: way of thinking. He likes being if everybody's zigging left,
Speaker 4: and he definitely wants a zag right, and he wants
Speaker 4: you to, you know, do the same thing with your
Speaker 4: thought processes. And yeah, I don't. I mean, I could
Speaker 4: talk all day about Dick. He's a great guy.
Speaker 2: What's uh, what's the best story he's told you? About
Speaker 2: about this place.
Speaker 4: The best story I I that I can tell in
Speaker 4: public is I think and it go. It's because I
Speaker 4: got it from both sides. Dick tells this. Dick and
Speaker 4: Bill tell the same story about how mad they got
Speaker 4: it at how mad Dick got at Bill cooor for
Speaker 4: number four Green. We talked about moving you know where
Speaker 4: they pushed actual some dirt up. It's one of the
Speaker 4: only green only places they moved any real soil outside
Speaker 4: of cleaning up the bunkers and stuff and.
Speaker 3: A few other little spots. But they had sat down
Speaker 3: to talk. And they all lived together. I mean they
Speaker 3: lived in one house, you know, so they had to
Speaker 3: go home every night. You know, they were like a family.
Speaker 4: And Dick is not afraid to give you his opinion ever,
Speaker 4: And I love him for that. And I mean sometimes,
Speaker 4: especially earlier in my career and even now, I mean,
Speaker 4: if he thinks you suck at something, he'll tell you
Speaker 4: you suck at something, and that hurts.
Speaker 3: Your feelings once in a while, you gotta be okay
Speaker 3: with that. But he's honest, and I love I love that.
Speaker 4: You couldn't ask for somebody better to work for, work with,
Speaker 4: and it's usually working with when it comes to Dick.
Speaker 4: But they both tell the story of they were sitting
Speaker 4: right in that little valley there and they had to
Speaker 4: push that all up to make four green. And they're
Speaker 4: sitting there one night and they had decided that they
Speaker 4: Dick had thought it was going to not be pushed up,
Speaker 4: and they were just gonna make that bunker kind of
Speaker 4: come around the front in that little lower area and
Speaker 4: make the green right there where where.
Speaker 3: Bill thought that.
Speaker 4: He said, do whatever you want to, go ahead, push
Speaker 4: if that's what you think you need to do. So
Speaker 4: like two days go by and Dick comes back and
Speaker 4: here's this green pushed up to where it is right now,
Speaker 4: and he just loses it on Bill, and I just
Speaker 4: I and they both have they both do impressions of
Speaker 4: each other, and it's it cracks me up. I can
Speaker 4: still see him both doing it, and I won't do
Speaker 4: it justice, but they're just they thought maybe they were
Speaker 4: at a point where things were gonna get pretty surly,
Speaker 4: and then but that's Dick, Dick, I've then it's over
Speaker 4: and get mad, get done.
Speaker 3: Get over. He would still tell you that that hole
Speaker 3: is better not being pushed up. And Bill would still
Speaker 3: tell you it's better the.
Speaker 2: Way, see the beauty of opinion. So he was by trade,
Speaker 2: he was an architect, so obviously a very creative guy.
Speaker 2: And he, you know, I imagine that helped with the
Speaker 2: relationship with Bill and Ben and giving them kind of
Speaker 2: creative freedom in a way. And would you say that
Speaker 2: he that's one of his strengths is like letting people
Speaker 2: do what they do.
Speaker 4: Absolutely. I mean, I think Dick would make it simpler.
Speaker 4: He said it many times. Is he was really busy
Speaker 4: down here on all the cabins and stuff. And he
Speaker 4: I mean, you want to talk about somebody that's involved.
Speaker 4: He had his crew, you know, whether it was sewe
Speaker 4: or you know, all that stuff. He was doing all
Speaker 4: the infrastructure work, and there would be several days he
Speaker 4: just trusted Ben and Bill that they were going to
Speaker 4: do the right thing most of the time.
Speaker 3: You know that story I.
Speaker 4: Just told you, which is why I think it's funny,
Speaker 4: and because they were just.
Speaker 3: Pissed off at each other and I think that's great.
Speaker 3: But he allowed them to do their job.
Speaker 4: And but he was involved, you know, they you know,
Speaker 4: they had a lot of conversations for a long long time.
Speaker 3: And Dick tells a great story that he was just at.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it was, uh, Golf Weeks or whatever.
Speaker 4: They had a roundtable discussion where Dick was with Mike
Speaker 4: Kaiser and Ben and Bill, and they had this question
Speaker 4: come up to Bill Kohor and and like this lady
Speaker 4: asked this question, like, hey, it must have been so
Speaker 4: much fun building you know, your time into sand Hills,
Speaker 4: and Bill's like, wasn't that much fun?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: And I think that's a great analogy of they all
Speaker 3: knew it was very important to everybody involved that they
Speaker 3: got it right. And I think that shows with the
Speaker 3: with the golf course. I can brag about it because
Speaker 3: I don't have anything to do with any of that.
Speaker 3: But they all respected each other an awful lot, and they.
Speaker 4: Allowed each other to be creative and have creative thoughts.
Speaker 4: And I think the product shows, you know, they were
Speaker 4: they didn't want to mess it up, you know, everybody
Speaker 4: everybody involved, you know, Dick included.
Speaker 3: And I think I think they got it right and
Speaker 3: I think they had pretty good Ji.
Speaker 2: I don't have many complaints. I don't think they really
Speaker 2: messed it up. And people probably known in a lot,
Speaker 2: so it's me too. It's ironic that we're here the
Speaker 2: same week that they're playing at Liberty National that costs
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty million to build, compared to of course,
Speaker 2: that costs less than a million to build here. In
Speaker 2: terms of Bill and Ben, how how much are they
Speaker 2: still involved and how often are they out here? And
Speaker 2: you know, what's your guys working relationship like with you know,
Speaker 2: continue to make updates and.
Speaker 4: Man humble bragg like I like Bill will send me
Speaker 4: like emojis and stuff.
Speaker 3: So I think we're kind of friends.
Speaker 2: Yea friend zone.
Speaker 3: No, it's I talked to Bill when I try not
Speaker 3: to bother. Bill is busy.
Speaker 4: He travels hundreds of days of years, undred nice, I said, years,
Speaker 4: nice English. I try not to be a bother. He
Speaker 4: hears more from me. In the spring of the fall,
Speaker 4: and we're actually doing some work on the golf course.
Speaker 4: Ben and Bill were both out here for a week
Speaker 4: this year. We walked around some stuff and just you know,
Speaker 4: we'll just go through the golf course and as Bill
Speaker 4: would call it a walk, we'll just go out and
Speaker 4: walk and talk about maybe this bunker, maybe that bunker,
Speaker 4: maybe this grass line, maybe that grass line, maybe.
Speaker 3: This edge of this you know, we just try to
Speaker 3: have a conversation. Then the next day we you know,
Speaker 3: kind of sit down and well, let's go back to
Speaker 3: that spot and let's go look at that again. And
Speaker 3: I don't know if I agree with's what you're doing,
Speaker 3: you know, you know, we'll just hash it out. So
Speaker 3: i'd say, Bills here probably every other year. Ben's here
Speaker 3: once or twice a year. So I'm and I you know,
Speaker 3: Ben being an Austin golf club.
Speaker 4: I know Ben really really well. I have no problem
Speaker 4: you know, approaching him. If I have any questions, we'll
Speaker 4: just talk about it. But you know, when it comes
Speaker 4: to the golf course stuff, you know, I really don't
Speaker 4: want to bother Ben.
Speaker 3: He's he's super busy, so I'll just either.
Speaker 4: Call Bill or we'll send some text back and forth.
Speaker 4: And we just want their intent to be right, you know,
Speaker 4: we just want the golf course to play exactly how
Speaker 4: they intended it.
Speaker 2: So, so you've worked closely with these guys for your
Speaker 2: basically career.
Speaker 3: Very very fortunate, lucky, very lucky. I'm okay, Well, saying.
Speaker 2: That, what would you say that each of them, what's
Speaker 2: there each of their best traits and like what makes
Speaker 2: them so great.
Speaker 4: I aspire to be as good a person as both
Speaker 4: of those guys are. They're just great people. I've seen
Speaker 4: Ben and Austin where he's like a rock star in
Speaker 4: Austin and he could go to I've been in a
Speaker 4: car with them at a gas station and somebody will
Speaker 4: just come up knocking on the.
Speaker 3: Door and hey, Ben, you know remember that time.
Speaker 4: I'm ten years ago and like, what the hell is
Speaker 4: going on here? And he's such a great person, and
Speaker 4: like he always remembers everybody's he's he has an uncanny
Speaker 4: knack to always remember people's names and faces that he's met.
Speaker 4: And he's wonderful at engaging people. Bill is just straightforward.
Speaker 4: I mean, Bill is also a great guy. He just
Speaker 4: Bill has no problem saying he didn't like something, or
Speaker 4: he wants to change something, or why don't.
Speaker 3: We try this? And he is he's very creative.
Speaker 4: He always he always takes his time to think out
Speaker 4: what he's like.
Speaker 3: He's not he's not impulsive. He's very methodical. Like if
Speaker 3: he says I don't like the corner of.
Speaker 4: That bunker, that's not because he just walked up there
Speaker 4: and said, yeah, I don't like that. He looked at it.
Speaker 4: He thought about it, probably went to bed. Like if
Speaker 4: I tell somebody like, oh yeah, I'll think about that,
Speaker 4: Like I forget about it.
Speaker 3: I don't think about it.
Speaker 4: Like I think Bill thinks about it all the way
Speaker 4: until he comes back and talks to you again.
Speaker 2: That he's thinking about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I do that all the time. Dix like
Speaker 3: that too.
Speaker 4: He's when if he says he's thinking about something, he's
Speaker 4: definitely thinking about it. I kind of that's my get
Speaker 4: out of, you know, the way conversation piece.
Speaker 3: So I don't know if I answer that question properly.
Speaker 3: But they're both. I talked to you guys a little
Speaker 3: bit earlier. They worked so well together.
Speaker 4: I spent some time with him, you know together, and
Speaker 4: I was giving him a hard time because they just
Speaker 4: they have a lot of the same mannerisms, Like they are.
Speaker 4: They work so well together, Like you can just tell
Speaker 4: their they just really trust and admire each other. And
Speaker 4: that's pretty impressive. When you can be, you know, confident
Speaker 4: that the person next to you has your best interest,
Speaker 4: you know, you can you can be honest.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm fortunate.
Speaker 4: You know, my old assistant, he's the superintendent, Bally Meal
Speaker 4: now is we we had that, and you know, we
Speaker 4: could just say, man, I think your idea fucking sucks
Speaker 4: or whatever it is, you know, and uh, that makes
Speaker 4: you better. And I think Ben, I don't think they'll
Speaker 4: swear that much, but I mean the thing, Ben and
Speaker 4: Bill do that, and they have that, and they have
Speaker 4: had that for a long time, and it's impressive to
Speaker 4: just I just shut my mouth and watch them do
Speaker 4: their thing and feel very very fortunate that I that
Speaker 4: they'll even you know, pick up the phone if I
Speaker 4: call or have a question.
Speaker 2: So it's you got to have somebody that's honest with you,
Speaker 2: like I get. I get emails from listeners and readers
Speaker 2: all the time that are like, I don't want to
Speaker 2: be an asshole, A you suck. And it's like I
Speaker 2: like that, and it's the best thing because I don't
Speaker 2: even know I say, like I used to always say
Speaker 2: something about like it's interesting or something, and like some
Speaker 2: guy like was like, you say this all the time,
Speaker 2: and I try and get better. I never thought I'd
Speaker 2: have a podcast in a millionaires. But it's the only
Speaker 2: way you can find out you suck is something is
Speaker 2: if somebody tells you you suck.
Speaker 4: You got to be, you know, and if we want
Speaker 4: to turn that full circle back to like Dick young
Speaker 4: Stamp's not afraid to tell you you suck and if
Speaker 4: you're there needs to be more of that. And I
Speaker 4: don't care what business you're in life, in life, just
Speaker 4: somebody that's like, hey, how about you not do that?
Speaker 4: And as a young guy, there were several times I
Speaker 4: probably had my feelings pretty well hurt. But he made
Speaker 4: me a better person first and foremost, but definitely a
Speaker 4: better superintendent and someone that's just like, you can't be
Speaker 4: so defensive. I think superintendent's a real defensive bunch, and
Speaker 4: I try not to be as many times as possible.
Speaker 2: I feel like they just you can't be sensitive because
Speaker 2: you get there's they're at every club, every course, there's
Speaker 2: the the vocal ten percent minority who are just gonna
Speaker 2: be mad about anything because they stink at golf and
Speaker 2: they just don't get it and they're just mad about
Speaker 2: stinking at golf, so they then take it out on
Speaker 2: the course.
Speaker 4: Or I agree, you just you have to. I mean,
Speaker 4: I'm not saying anything that's new. You have to have
Speaker 4: a thick skin to be a superintendent, but you also
Speaker 4: gotta be okay with somebody like there's probably probably have
Speaker 4: some good ideas once in a while that you're just
Speaker 4: not listening to anybody.
Speaker 3: You gotta be.
Speaker 4: Okay with somebody's thinking you suck. I hope, I hope
Speaker 4: your boss is okay saying you suck more than once.
Speaker 4: I'm I know Dick would say I'll suck right now.
Speaker 4: If I was doing he might say I sucked at this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you'll.
Speaker 2: Listen to it, it's uh, yeah, you got it. Every
Speaker 2: everybody stinks in someone. Yeah, and my my.
Speaker 3: Whole the I'm terrible at a lot of things.
Speaker 2: My whole theory and life as everybody's an idiot.
Speaker 3: I like that.
Speaker 2: And you know, you're genius in some aspect of life,
Speaker 2: but an idiot and another. And if you don't embrace
Speaker 2: the fact that you're an idiot in some way, like
Speaker 2: I'm an idiot. If I have to plan anything, people
Speaker 2: are gonna hate me.
Speaker 3: I respect that.
Speaker 2: I like that. But so what would be like if
Speaker 2: if for other superintendent or like a Greens committee, sure
Speaker 2: say you weren't at of course that.
Speaker 3: Had it's nice.
Speaker 2: What would be your advice to like Greens committees or
Speaker 2: superintendents or any members like in working with an architect
Speaker 2: like overtime, and like you know, what would what would
Speaker 2: you say?
Speaker 3: Is like important thing. I've already told you. I'm an
Speaker 3: architecture dork, nerd whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 4: I love that stuff. I don't think I'm an architect
Speaker 4: that's I never had those aspirations, but I've given some
Speaker 4: talks I would love. I love the conversation of I
Speaker 4: think it's very interesting. And I'm gonna steer at one
Speaker 4: one all go back and answer your question.
Speaker 3: I talk a lot. I don't think superintendent's a play
Speaker 3: enough golf, and I don't think that they know enough
Speaker 3: about architecture. There's there's some there's like Sean Totally at
Speaker 3: the Metal Club.
Speaker 4: That guy is, oh my god, he knows everything about
Speaker 4: everything in architecture. But it'll only make you a better
Speaker 4: superintendent if you know some You just have to know
Speaker 4: the basics.
Speaker 3: You don't have to you know.
Speaker 4: And I challenge guys that, And it's so cheap you
Speaker 4: just get a few books or you know, even if
Speaker 4: you're at just the little course down the road, like
Speaker 4: pick up the phone.
Speaker 3: I really challenge.
Speaker 4: People to, like, why haven't you seen you live in
Speaker 4: Chicago and you've never seen short acres or like make
Speaker 4: them turn you away, like you know, the easiest way.
Speaker 4: Maybe maybe I shouldn't say this is called the superintendent.
Speaker 4: They're usually gonna be okay, maybe you're not gonna play golf,
Speaker 4: and that's fine. Yeah, go walk around the place some
Speaker 4: morning and just go, holy shit, that was pretty amazing,
Speaker 4: and don't be afraid to go look, you know, and superintendent,
Speaker 4: it's really don't want to go to somebody else's golf course.
Speaker 3: I love I'll go to I love golf. I love
Speaker 3: going on the.
Speaker 4: Golf courses and seeing what other people are doing. And
Speaker 4: I feel very, very fortunate to get to do that.
Speaker 4: I wish more people did more of that, just to
Speaker 4: just to immerse themselves. And some of them just have
Speaker 4: a little working knowledge in golf architecture. I think as
Speaker 4: a superintendent is a very cheap and effective way to
Speaker 4: become a little bit better superintendent.
Speaker 3: You knowing the intent a little bit, and you don't
Speaker 3: have to be at a Donald Ross or a Core
Speaker 3: French Shaw you could.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think every place had an architect one way,
Speaker 4: shape or form outside of.
Speaker 3: The old course, see what they're.
Speaker 4: Trying to think and maybe you can, maybe you can
Speaker 4: make some suggestions that play the way you know, or
Speaker 4: call that architect up if he's still alive, or you know,
Speaker 4: or get there's so many young, aspiring, great young architect
Speaker 4: guys out there. The Riley Johns, the Blake Conans, the Keiths, ReBs,
Speaker 4: all the the Rob Collins. All these guys are so
Speaker 4: talented and it's such a like Superintendent's bitch about the
Speaker 4: market being.
Speaker 3: Tough for us, Like, wow, try to be a golf architect.
Speaker 3: Those guys are so talented.
Speaker 4: You could just call one of those guys up and
Speaker 4: they come out, they probably for little to nothing, and
Speaker 4: walk around, say hey, why don't you just what about this?
Speaker 4: And if that's what you want to do, now shift
Speaker 4: into a greens committee. If you're at a place that
Speaker 4: has a great old architect, I think you should reach
Speaker 4: out to somebody if the guy, if if the architects alive,
Speaker 4: let's get him involved. If he's not, you know, they're
Speaker 4: like Jeff meant, there's so many of these guys that
Speaker 4: do so many great things. Just go make a phone
Speaker 4: call and say, let's let's at least get a plan.
Speaker 4: Let's what do you think what do you do you
Speaker 4: think we're doing it right. Let's let's get the architecture
Speaker 4: on display, and let's not worry about, you know, what
Speaker 4: can we do that's not going to cost us a
Speaker 4: bunch of money first, you know, maybe it's just a
Speaker 4: tree or two, or maybe just a grass line that
Speaker 4: doesn't cost much. We always get so worried it's going
Speaker 4: to cost you ten million dollars. And I understand that,
Speaker 4: but let's talk to the architect before we worry about,
Speaker 4: you know, doing the upgrade to the clubhouse or whatever
Speaker 4: it is. You know, And I think, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I think as a superintendent, depending I know, greens committees
Speaker 4: are different and summer two and four and six year
Speaker 4: terms just start working those like hey, or maybe as
Speaker 4: a superintendent you need to have a relationship with some
Speaker 4: of these guys and go, hey, let's let's hear what
Speaker 4: this guy has to say about what he thinks we
Speaker 4: should do. I think, I mean, I don't know if
Speaker 4: that's really answering your question.
Speaker 2: No, that's a good answer.
Speaker 4: It bothers me that that we would like to just
Speaker 4: put the blinders on and not not a not play
Speaker 4: golf and be not be worried about how the golf
Speaker 4: course is supposed to play.
Speaker 3: And it's some generalization.
Speaker 4: Obviously, there's some really really good guys that do really
Speaker 4: really great things.
Speaker 2: M H. I put together a list of books. I
Speaker 2: think that's a great thing.
Speaker 3: But that's a smart idea.
Speaker 2: I had a reader who is a librarian and informed
Speaker 2: me that that ninety percent of the books that I
Speaker 2: had on that list were available at your local library. Really,
Speaker 2: so you could just go to a public library. You
Speaker 2: don't even have to pay for the books. You could just.
Speaker 3: And I've seen just.
Speaker 4: More like like every course, especially if it's some every
Speaker 4: course has some golf dork guys that you or me
Speaker 4: or whoever that is more.
Speaker 3: Than happy to like, Hey, yeah, here you go. Why
Speaker 3: don't you borrow these books and go read them and
Speaker 3: give them back to me.
Speaker 2: You know, I think some people think I'm a menace
Speaker 2: because I just.
Speaker 3: Run around.
Speaker 2: Screen.
Speaker 3: I respect that.
Speaker 2: Some powering menace menice to golf courses. So how many
Speaker 2: how many core Crunchhaw courses have you played?
Speaker 3: Oh? My goodness, Austin Golf Club. Obviously sand Hills, the
Speaker 3: Warren Course, it's a good one. Sand Valley Friars said what.
Speaker 2: Are your top three core Crunch courses.
Speaker 3: Can't put sand Hills in there because I'm biased. We'll
Speaker 3: just I've played. I'm just trying to think. I'm man.
Speaker 4: I'm not very smart anymore, Friar said, is really really impressive.
Speaker 4: I've not got to see Eastampton or that's really really good.
Speaker 4: I would love to see Old Sandwich. I just have
Speaker 4: never got up there. The place looks amazing from the
Speaker 4: pictures i've seen. Sand Valley's really good. Yeah, I played
Speaker 4: that last fall.
Speaker 3: Man, is that good?
Speaker 4: It's really good, really good. Austin Golf Club's fun, Roston
Speaker 4: Golf clubs. Really it's hard, but it's it's probably the
Speaker 4: only in Ben and billkindsfut. That's probably the only corner
Speaker 4: Crunshaw that's a little bit more Ben than Bill, you know,
Speaker 4: because Ben's there all the time, and it's it has
Speaker 4: a different, different feeling look than you are.
Speaker 3: The ones that I've seen. I was at Seminole this winter.
Speaker 4: It was fortunate enough to go there and seeing what
Speaker 4: they're doing there, that's gonna be pretty amazing. I've not
Speaker 4: been to Pinehurst number two since they've redone.
Speaker 3: All that stuff.
Speaker 4: I'd love to get and see that there's so much
Speaker 4: golf coming out. I'm I'm hopefully gonna go see something.
Speaker 2: I get some moisture, have clubs, will travel.
Speaker 3: I love love. I've not been a it looks cool,
Speaker 3: I know, you know that was one of the first
Speaker 3: they did that.
Speaker 4: Before they did this, I played the cliff the crnch
Speaker 4: Eyed Cringe Shaw cliff Side. That's a mouthful at Barton
Speaker 4: Creek And that's a cool little spot too.
Speaker 2: Do you have a pet peeve going.
Speaker 4: To some great golf course and just just not maintained
Speaker 4: the way that even marginally maintained the way it needs
Speaker 4: to be where there's just no shots are available, Like,
Speaker 4: oh man, that would be such a fun shot if
Speaker 4: that was you can get that shot.
Speaker 2: I played the course I played before I came here.
Speaker 2: I had we had a US four ball qualifier at
Speaker 2: and it's like they have a huge maintenance budget. But
Speaker 2: it's a it's like the complete opposite.
Speaker 3: Golfs are up here.
Speaker 2: It's a and the guy he designed the course himself.
Speaker 2: It's a disaster. But then like you couple it with
Speaker 2: like it hasn't rained in Chicago like at all, so
Speaker 2: it's like the greens are really firm, but the fringes
Speaker 2: an eight prints are so soft because he needs it
Speaker 2: has to be lush and green.
Speaker 3: That is a tough That might be the toughest mix
Speaker 3: to play is super firm greens and everything else is soft.
Speaker 2: I mean, that is it's a disaster.
Speaker 3: That is so hard to play. That is so hard.
Speaker 3: That's maybe that's what the USGA needs to do. That
Speaker 3: is really hard to play.
Speaker 2: What do you think this score would be out here
Speaker 2: if you had a PGA Tour events.
Speaker 3: If it's windy like today, then who knows.
Speaker 4: But if it's I just played as a kid a
Speaker 4: couple of days ago that he shot even par My
Speaker 4: good friend Jared Kline, who's that bally Neil is a
Speaker 4: really good player, and I played with them. He shot
Speaker 4: sixty six out of here from the tips, so I
Speaker 4: think they It just depends, you know. I mean I
Speaker 4: played it Ben out here more than one time, and
Speaker 4: it's not like he took it super low. Of course,
Speaker 4: records sixty one, so yeah, but that was on a
Speaker 4: dead calm day. It's there for the taking if you
Speaker 4: know where to go. But if you just a bunch
Speaker 4: of guys come out here and we could extend it
Speaker 4: quite a bit too. If we if we if we
Speaker 4: thought we were going to have a tournament, which is
Speaker 4: not going to happen, you know, I think you could
Speaker 4: make it. It's it's it's kind of sad the way
Speaker 4: the golf ball is gone. I don't want to try
Speaker 4: to turn it into that conversation, but it's just these
Speaker 4: guys hit.
Speaker 2: The ball so far.
Speaker 4: You're like, like every golf course is inadequate anymore.
Speaker 3: It's it's sad. It's it's unfortunate.
Speaker 2: It just goes so straight too. It's not just the far,
Speaker 2: it's like the ball doesn't curve, and especially with a
Speaker 2: course that built for wind, when the ball doesn't spin,
Speaker 2: like you lose some of it the defense.
Speaker 3: It'd be fun to watch them when on a daylight today,
Speaker 3: when they're out there, and I would enjoy watching a
Speaker 3: bunch of tour pros go out and knock it around,
Speaker 3: see what shots, because they can hit those shots. I
Speaker 3: would just love to watch them hit it.
Speaker 2: I had it going for a while and then the
Speaker 2: wind just just beat the crap out of me down.
Speaker 3: It's off when the wind like will dictate how your
Speaker 3: ball breaks, you know, because I'm not a good enough putter. Anyways,
Speaker 3: and when you got you know, two or three breaks,
Speaker 3: and that the wind will put like I'm not making that, but.
Speaker 2: The way the course goes the whole back nine, it
Speaker 2: goes out and then it comes right back and with
Speaker 2: that south wind, it is cross all in. Crosswind is
Speaker 2: just south of this hard. It's just the hardest wind
Speaker 2: to play because you're constantly uncomfortable, you're not sure. It
Speaker 2: affects your distance and your dispersion, which is like you know,
Speaker 2: like if it's into the wind, a good player knows
Speaker 2: how far the ball's going to go. If it's downwind,
Speaker 2: you generally know pretty much how far the ball is
Speaker 2: gonna go. But those cross winds that you get out
Speaker 2: here are just that's that's the uh, that's the the
Speaker 2: ultimate defense.
Speaker 4: I think, Well, and the wind will you know this
Speaker 4: time ere doesn't change a lot.
Speaker 3: But in the summer you'll get.
Speaker 4: Two winds a lot, like you'll get a morning wind
Speaker 4: and it'll come out of the south and then maybe
Speaker 4: it comes out of the north of the west, and you'll.
Speaker 3: I mean that's two different I mean it you guys
Speaker 3: have been on here now.
Speaker 4: That affects play a lot and how you're gonna attack
Speaker 4: and what shots you're forced to hit, And I think
Speaker 4: that's that's a mark of a good golf course. I
Speaker 4: think for one, obviously I'm a homer to my own
Speaker 4: golf course, but it's uh, I've had a lot of
Speaker 4: fun hitting those shots and seeing what what does want?
Speaker 2: So what's your favorite course outside of sand Hills?
Speaker 3: Man? That is? I've been very fortunate to play some
Speaker 3: awesome courses.
Speaker 4: Humble Bragg, National, I mean, Ben and Bill will will
Speaker 4: tell you you got to go to see National. I
Speaker 4: mean I've I've bet I'm the guy just yapping at
Speaker 4: their tails all the time asking them all these tom
Speaker 4: golf architecture questions and they like, you got to go
Speaker 4: see it.
Speaker 3: And I've been.
Speaker 4: Fortunate enough to play it. It's wonderful.
Speaker 3: Cypress Point is really really good.
Speaker 4: Really, I was impressed by how good the inland holes
Speaker 4: were at Cyprus.
Speaker 3: It's really good. Shintacock's really good, man, I thought, Seminole
Speaker 3: when when Ben and Bill get done with that, stuff
Speaker 3: is going to be really really good too. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I'm just I'm just gonna like list all the really
Speaker 4: cool courses I've been on.
Speaker 2: What's your what's your what's your favorite hidden gem then,
Speaker 2: like one that doesn't get talked about enough. It should be.
Speaker 2: It could be something around here too.
Speaker 4: I don't think people I don't think people play wild
Speaker 4: Horse enough. I think wild Horse is such a world
Speaker 4: class golf course and it's cost you.
Speaker 2: Nothing and it's under fifty bucks.
Speaker 4: Right, it's like just out of the cusp of me
Speaker 4: playing there like every single day because it's like an
Speaker 4: hour and a half for me to get there, which
Speaker 4: is just like a half hour more than it needs
Speaker 4: to be. Josh, Josh Mayris was superintendent. It wasn't assistant
Speaker 4: out here for a long time, well not a long time,
Speaker 4: a few years, and then he's been there since day one.
Speaker 4: And it's a really smart golf course and it's always
Speaker 4: in great shit.
Speaker 3: It's always firm and.
Speaker 4: Fast, and it's you can go and with your buddies
Speaker 4: and you're not going to spend one hundred bucks. And
Speaker 4: I think we need more of that golf, you know,
Speaker 4: and the country. I don't care where you're at. It's
Speaker 4: just it's wonderful. He's They ought to have a statue
Speaker 4: of that guy up there. I mean, he's just a
Speaker 4: good superintendent. Is can make or break a golf course
Speaker 4: like that, and that place has been so good for
Speaker 4: so long, it's wonderful. Another one is like cow Club
Speaker 4: is so good man. I thought that was just expertly maintained.
Speaker 3: It was just, you know, it was you were hitting
Speaker 3: all the shots you were supposed to hit. Not everybody
Speaker 3: talks about it. When you go to that San Francisco area.
Speaker 3: And you know.
Speaker 2: Jeff's Minge who you mentioned earlier, you know, he says
Speaker 2: that Avy McCann might have been the greatest golf course
Speaker 2: architecture that nobody knows about because he was just building
Speaker 2: courses up in the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 4: Well, I went to I was fortunate enough to go
Speaker 4: to Seattle this year. I talked to a bunch of
Speaker 4: the Western Washington guys I'd never really been up there before,
Speaker 4: and talked to some market about and we went to Chambers,
Speaker 4: which I thought was really good.
Speaker 3: It was a terrible logo, but a great golf course.
Speaker 2: I thought, you gotta go to that Loan Tree.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's something. I mean. I love golf. I love logos.
Speaker 3: I'm a logo.
Speaker 2: Do I send you my logo rankings. Let's see, I
Speaker 2: gotta form you gotta fill it out. I'm all in submissions.
Speaker 4: I have kids will just bring me stuff because I
Speaker 4: love that stuff. Anyways, and we talked about McCain and
Speaker 4: and I love all that stuff, like especially something I've
Speaker 4: never seen, like, holy cow, let's go look at that
Speaker 4: little place and let's go. It'd be cool to see
Speaker 4: more and more of that. I never get up there enough.
Speaker 4: I think that part of the country is wonderful and
Speaker 4: I just need to see more of it.
Speaker 3: You're right.
Speaker 2: I think one of the issues with McCann up there
Speaker 2: is that there's a big tree problem. Tree management programs
Speaker 2: up there are like planting trees. Oh, who is that?
Speaker 2: Most of the time the fans in check in on
Speaker 2: he think he got? Is the number confused with the
Speaker 2: cheesecake factory?
Speaker 3: Like that?
Speaker 2: I can't take credit. That's Zach Claire's.
Speaker 3: That's funny.
Speaker 2: Got a funny story there. That's another story for another day.
Speaker 2: So the legend out here, like you know, it's not
Speaker 2: a legend. You see it in here. One hundred and
Speaker 2: eighty holes they found on this massive piece of property
Speaker 2: that's actually a small piece of property via Sandhills standards.
Speaker 2: He has there ever been thought about, you know, building more.
Speaker 3: I think they entertained it a lot early on.
Speaker 4: You know, I just you know, they were still just
Speaker 4: trying to figure out how it was all going to work,
Speaker 4: you know. You know, they really just thought they were
Speaker 4: just going to build this golf course.
Speaker 3: For their buddies, and I was going to be it.
Speaker 3: They didn't have any aspirations. I think Ben and Bill did,
Speaker 3: but I don't think Dick that it was going to
Speaker 3: be this world phenomenon. Yeah, my words not.
Speaker 4: But they they've thought about it. You know when you
Speaker 4: look at that consolation maps that's just up in the
Speaker 4: dining room, and I look at it a lot. I
Speaker 4: know that sounds super dorky, but it's I still believe.
Speaker 4: I mean I've if i'd have like one, I haven't
Speaker 4: a pocket.
Speaker 3: I have like a hundred of them. So yeah, I've
Speaker 3: taken it off in photocopy. Yes, I've done that.
Speaker 4: Anyways, you know, they they it was it's a lot
Speaker 4: when you start, it's like, how do you get it
Speaker 4: all the fit together? Yeah, they you know, from what
Speaker 4: Ben and Bill and Dick have all said, it was
Speaker 4: always based on the principle that it wasn't always going
Speaker 4: to be one seventeen and eighteen. We're going to be
Speaker 4: actually one seven, but those three holes, it was all
Speaker 4: like those were always going to be there, no matter what.
Speaker 4: And they have some great stories of you know, off
Speaker 4: the back of Ford Green and going you know east.
Speaker 3: That way was some that they really liked. And and
Speaker 3: and then there's a great story of where twelve is.
Speaker 3: You know, you know, they walk this property for year.
Speaker 2: I know I heard that Bill actually camped on the property.
Speaker 2: Is that true or I.
Speaker 4: Cannot I cannot confirm nor deny that. I haven't heard
Speaker 4: that he camped out here. I mean, I think they
Speaker 4: were drinking plenty of corps lights and stuff.
Speaker 2: It might have been.
Speaker 4: Unintentional, but I can't confirm or deny that either. But
Speaker 4: a great story that I don't that a lot of
Speaker 4: people know out here, that I think is always really
Speaker 4: interesting is eighty seven hundred acres, which is a pretty
Speaker 4: small parcel land out here. They're walking, and they've been walking,
Speaker 4: and they've they're where twelve Green is right over our
Speaker 4: thirteen thirteen Green and then twelve and there's that little
Speaker 4: maintenance path that goes between them that used to be
Speaker 4: the property line. And they come back one day and
Speaker 4: like Dick, Ben and Bill, like we need another one
Speaker 4: hundred acres over here.
Speaker 3: He's like, you got eighty seven hundred we need.
Speaker 4: So they had to do this handshake deal where they
Speaker 4: had to reroute this parcel and you know, Going, it's
Speaker 4: a great story because Dick tells it talking to Going
Speaker 4: and I'll get the guy's name, Ron, whoever owned the
Speaker 4: parcel land there.
Speaker 3: It was like, yeah, can we just you know, He's like,
Speaker 3: you want to do what you know?
Speaker 4: Like it's just not even fathomable to a rancher, like
Speaker 4: you just want to move that fence there for one
Speaker 4: hundred acres, Like what.
Speaker 3: The hell are we doing here?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: You know, but that gave us twelve fourteen fifteen. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and I don't think anybody fourteen I think.
Speaker 3: Is my favorite hole out here. I just I really
Speaker 3: like fourteen a lot.
Speaker 2: I think it's a spectacular whole. It's especially with this
Speaker 2: south wind because it's impossible to hit the ball down
Speaker 2: the west side today.
Speaker 3: But don't hit it in those bunkers either. That's what
Speaker 3: I think is so great.
Speaker 4: Like you get rewarded if you hit it left, but yeah,
Speaker 4: you get killed if you hit it too far left.
Speaker 3: And you can I play with guys.
Speaker 4: Where you just tap in Birdie and no problem and
Speaker 4: other guys where you get up there and you may
Speaker 4: double because like green is you know, it's tiny, it's
Speaker 4: just tiny, and it's just you know, I'm a I'm
Speaker 4: a fanboy obviously.
Speaker 2: How many green can't be more than three thousand squares. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's this.
Speaker 3: Time of the year.
Speaker 4: You know, we don't fertilize really at all in relative terms.
Speaker 3: So I mean, you guys can see all those little
Speaker 3: plugs and stuff. This time of year. It's pretty thin
Speaker 3: out there, so there's not a lot of playable, pinnable
Speaker 3: locations on fourteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a it's a I mean, either of way,
Speaker 2: either side.
Speaker 3: You put it. It's tough. It's it's tough.
Speaker 4: Just play just play it up like next to the left, yes,
Speaker 4: and then then you have many options. But if you
Speaker 4: go right in front of that stuff on the right,
Speaker 4: that's a tough shot. I was just playing with somebody
Speaker 4: yes two days ago, and they hit it over the
Speaker 4: green and everything on top of the hill there because
Speaker 4: they just scald one and like double bogie, here we go.
Speaker 2: It's the best, I mean, and entice it. It's so short,
Speaker 2: it's a short part five, and it's so short that
Speaker 2: it entices it you feel like you have to go
Speaker 2: for it. And that's I think that's one of the
Speaker 2: things that golf courses mess up so much, is like,
Speaker 2: if you have a short part five, just like, let
Speaker 2: people try and go for it, because they're probably gonna
Speaker 2: get themselves in all kinds of trouble.
Speaker 4: That's a really smart way to say it. I have
Speaker 4: stood so many times on that little hill, you know,
Speaker 4: not down the swale, which I think is really you
Speaker 4: get really rewarded if you hit it down there, and
Speaker 4: it's like, hey, just hit your six irond right there
Speaker 4: and don't worry about.
Speaker 3: We're only two hundred out. I can get there. I'm like,
Speaker 3: i've seen you play.
Speaker 4: You're not hitting it into that little tiny spot just
Speaker 4: like you're gonna make berdie if you hit just a
Speaker 4: nice shot right there and be done with it. And
Speaker 4: they hit a nice bunk ground they make double bogie
Speaker 4: and you know, all right, here we go.
Speaker 3: And I've done that plenty of times.
Speaker 2: So you want to do some overrated, underrated Sure, you're
Speaker 2: the overrated underrated guy. Yeah. Ocean front holes, I.
Speaker 4: Think they're properly they're pretty like it's be hard to
Speaker 4: stand on fifteen to pick one.
Speaker 2: You can't pick properly raised.
Speaker 3: Ryan Silva, I think said properly Raydon, I'm it was.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 4: I get no pass overrated because it doesn't make it
Speaker 4: great golf all it is awesome. If there's a great
Speaker 4: golf holl and there's ocean there, it's really cool. Like
Speaker 4: I said, it'd be hard to say, you're on fifteen
Speaker 4: at Cyprus and you don't go, holy shit, this is awesome.
Speaker 4: You don't get that here at all?
Speaker 2: Have you? Have you played dismal river? I hear there's
Speaker 2: just bad No.
Speaker 4: I don't think there's any black But I got here
Speaker 4: eleven years ago, the original ownership, and it was a
Speaker 4: little bit of a difficult situation. But in you know,
Speaker 4: I'll give Dick all the credit in the world. We
Speaker 4: you know, all our employees are from Mullen. You know,
Speaker 4: they live in Mullen. They're part of Mullen or part
Speaker 4: of the community. You know, my crew in the summer
Speaker 4: is twenty two and they're high school and college kids
Speaker 4: and I love each and every one of them. But
Speaker 4: we don't you know, there's only five hundred people in
Speaker 4: Mullen and other couple hundred in the surrounding area.
Speaker 3: The community takes care of us, and we do our
Speaker 3: best to try to take care of the community as
Speaker 3: much as we can. And I think originally that wasn't
Speaker 3: necessarily dismal Rivers. And I'm not The current ownership, I
Speaker 3: think is doing great things and I think they will
Speaker 3: be nothing but successful, and I wish them nothing but
Speaker 3: the best. I played both those courses a bunch. I
Speaker 3: think I'm an architecture guy. I don't love.
Speaker 4: I don't love the White course, the Nicolas course. It's
Speaker 4: a little you know, talk about we talked about punch bowls.
Speaker 4: There's a bunch of punch balls there.
Speaker 3: And it's it's just not my cup of tea.
Speaker 4: You can see a lot of heart where they pushed
Speaker 4: it's it could be really hard, really really hard.
Speaker 2: Bunkers pushed down the left sides of greens.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's just And I'm, like I said, I'm
Speaker 4: not trying to get I wish we're not in like
Speaker 4: everybody wants to say, we're in some type of competition,
Speaker 4: like we have no desire to see them do anything
Speaker 4: but successful things over myself included, and their Superintendent Mark
Speaker 4: Stencil has been there for a long time and they
Speaker 4: do the best they can of what they got.
Speaker 3: And I like the Doe course.
Speaker 4: The Dope courses a little interesting in a couple of
Speaker 4: spots where you know, it kind of goes across the
Speaker 4: road and stuff like that, and I'm not certainly not
Speaker 4: discrediting it, but I mean, I'd rather go.
Speaker 3: Play ballyt Neil, you know. That's that's my opinion though.
Speaker 2: That's we're going there, and Ballet.
Speaker 4: Neil is wonderful, really really good, really good.
Speaker 2: What's your who's your favorite Golden Age architect?
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm such a I like the mc you know,
Speaker 4: McDonald rayner stuff, you know, but I'm probably my eye
Speaker 4: is probably more drawn to the mackenzie stuff, you know,
Speaker 4: really way out on the limb of the fringes of
Speaker 4: the like two most common guys. Those guys, those three
Speaker 4: guys are awesome. But I was gifted that Simpson book this.
Speaker 2: Last I gotta read that.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, those drop like I've never s like
Speaker 4: they're in. They're enchanting. I feel like a little kid,
Speaker 4: like you're like, I'm just looking at.
Speaker 3: The pictures just like, oh my gosh, look at this
Speaker 3: thing looks pretty amazing. I just need to see more stuff.
Speaker 2: I think, uh overrated, underrated playing with five clubs or less.
Speaker 4: Oh man, totally underrated because I don't play. I only
Speaker 4: play with nine clubs regularly. Really, yeah, the nine driver
Speaker 4: utility would I'd have to I don't even know how
Speaker 4: account putter one wedge and then.
Speaker 2: You only use one wedge.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I'm not good enough to hit like.
Speaker 4: It's just better if I just leave mynd by that
Speaker 4: lofted high lofted wedge in my shop. So then I
Speaker 4: don't even try to hit it. Just hit my punch
Speaker 4: and run shot or buttter and I'm good.
Speaker 3: That's mentally, and that's that's that's not that's.
Speaker 4: Probably because I'm just not good enough to hit it
Speaker 4: in So I like guys that are I've I have
Speaker 4: played golf with Bill Coohr and Dan Proctor and they
Speaker 4: each took like three clubs when I was like twenty
Speaker 4: years old, when we were playing Austin Golf Club and
Speaker 4: it wasn't even open and they just kicked my ass
Speaker 4: and I had.
Speaker 3: A full set club. So I was like, man, I
Speaker 3: gotta get a lot better at golf than this, That's
Speaker 3: what I tell So I think people hit you gotta
Speaker 3: hit shots in that way. I love to watch. I
Speaker 3: love watching people be creative and hit shots, which is
Speaker 3: why I like being at Santos.
Speaker 4: I love watching guys hit fun, cool shots. And I
Speaker 4: think the less clubs you have, the more inclined yard
Speaker 4: are like, well if.
Speaker 3: I just pinch this down and see what happens.
Speaker 2: So do you have like a spot where you watch
Speaker 2: golf from all the time nobody knows that you're watching.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I have several spots that I enjoy. We
Speaker 3: this is no secret.
Speaker 4: We sit at the porch a lot and take bets
Speaker 4: on how bad people will make, how bad your miss
Speaker 4: putts on nine all the time. Nine is like the
Speaker 4: most difficult green to read on the golf course.
Speaker 2: It's something so hard they can't.
Speaker 3: I kit that is a hard golf hole. I love.
Speaker 4: I love that golf hole. But man, that whole kicks
Speaker 4: my ass all the time. So we will just be like,
Speaker 4: we'll sit there for you had a lot of fun
Speaker 4: when you're busy and just like, oh god, this guy's
Speaker 4: not he thinks he's getting it up and down.
Speaker 3: That ain't happening.
Speaker 2: So's and then uh, it helps you we have a
Speaker 2: beer or something on hand, so yeah, or a great
Speaker 2: goose or whatever float you both, is it. They don't
Speaker 2: have any events here really, No.
Speaker 4: We we have one tournament our remember remember, which is
Speaker 4: our big deal and it's a Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
Speaker 3: And it's only been six.
Speaker 4: Five six years that we've done it and it's been really
Speaker 4: good for Like, it was always interesting because I know
Speaker 4: ninety six per seven percent of the members on a
Speaker 4: first name basis, and like the staff knew everything, Like
Speaker 4: I'm the least ten yared of.
Speaker 3: All the managers. I've been here eleven years, you know,
Speaker 3: quite a bit.
Speaker 4: And it was always interesting like how they didn't you know,
Speaker 4: like members wouldn't necessarily interact with each other because they
Speaker 4: just didn't know. You know, you can come out, you
Speaker 4: can bring seven seven people with you, and the like,
Speaker 4: what are the chances that you know who the member is?
Speaker 3: You know, there'd be a few, but not a lot
Speaker 3: because these people are spread out all over the country
Speaker 3: and the world, And what the member member did is
Speaker 3: really build a lot stronger bond. People knew who they were,
Speaker 3: and it's been really fun to watch these guys. You know,
Speaker 3: build friendships that you could kind of see, like you're like, oh,
Speaker 3: I could tell that guy and that guy'd be friends
Speaker 3: and whether they're you know, Minneapolis or New York or Austin,
Speaker 3: Texas or whatever. So that's our only we've never We
Speaker 3: had a high school like a junior thing a couple
Speaker 3: of years ago that I thought was pretty cool. That
Speaker 3: was Dick's big thing. He wanted to We don't have
Speaker 3: any ambitions of having like a tour event or anything
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 4: So it was fun to go watch a bunch of
Speaker 4: junior players going half fun and watch them go Holy
Speaker 4: Callalyst is pretty cool that they get to come out
Speaker 4: here and we're fortunate to have them out, so that
Speaker 4: was cool. Do we do some more of that?
Speaker 3: Probably? I don't know.
Speaker 2: M that's a yeah.
Speaker 4: It's it'd be fun to host like a Walker Cup,
Speaker 4: I would. I mean, I love the Walker Cup. I
Speaker 4: think I've been fortunate to was at you know, the
Speaker 4: Walker Cup at National and at Chicago Golf, and I.
Speaker 3: Think that's just such a cool, cool event.
Speaker 4: Like they get it like every you're walking with everybody.
Speaker 3: That's that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: That would be pretty awesome.
Speaker 3: That'd be fun. I don't know if we can do
Speaker 3: it logistic.
Speaker 4: Not that anybody is approaches or anything, but I mean it,
Speaker 4: I don't know if we can do it logistically, but
Speaker 4: it'd be fun.
Speaker 2: I mean, you could house the players and officials and
Speaker 2: then let everybody else fend for themselves.
Speaker 4: I don't I don't make those kinds of decisions. It'd
Speaker 4: be fun for me.
Speaker 2: I make them in my mind all the time. So right,
Speaker 2: we've made You got my vote? I like it, and
Speaker 2: I have I've got zero votes. So well, uh, let's
Speaker 2: say last last one? Overrated underrated corn Husker football.
Speaker 3: Oh man, it's so overrated.
Speaker 4: I'm a Michigan State Spartan, so the I will say
Speaker 4: that because I'm very, very fortunate to call them all
Speaker 4: in my home, and these people have been wonderful to
Speaker 4: me and my family. They know they've taken us in
Speaker 4: as part of their family since my wife, Ashley, and
Speaker 4: I moved there it'll be eleven years in January, and
Speaker 4: they tolerate our spartan fandom, you know, like when we
Speaker 4: went to the Rose Ball.
Speaker 3: I mean I I cried.
Speaker 4: I cried, and I had so many phone calls from
Speaker 4: friends and people that were just excited that they were
Speaker 4: excited to watch. You know, that's how that's that's Nebraska,
Speaker 4: and I feel very very fortunate to call.
Speaker 3: Us place home. So I that's just me get them ship.
Speaker 4: I hope they get there. They hope they get it
Speaker 4: figured out. They're passionate. It's a great place to watch
Speaker 4: a football game. You can go as an opposing fan
Speaker 4: and you're not going to get in a fight or
Speaker 4: anything like that. And if you haven't been, you should go.
Speaker 4: I'm a huge college football fan. Cool place to watch
Speaker 4: a game, and they're they're good people. But I think
Speaker 4: they lack some offensive line play right now, and their
Speaker 4: defense a little slow, and it's I think it's gonna
Speaker 4: be a.
Speaker 2: Long I hate to hear what you have to say
Speaker 2: about my line. I then, because I.
Speaker 4: Didn't watch the game to watch, we had a Mullen
Speaker 4: Bronco football game, so I had to be there for that.
Speaker 3: So but I'm not I think Illinois, you guys will
Speaker 3: figure it out.
Speaker 2: We got it's a it's a process. We got to
Speaker 2: dig out.
Speaker 3: You guys always like come up with like a really
Speaker 3: good team.
Speaker 4: Like every team.
Speaker 3: With Mendenhall that was they were good and then you
Speaker 3: see gone terrible again.
Speaker 2: For we should never have fire grounds back. And I
Speaker 2: can't believe that's like, what ive?
Speaker 3: What about? How is your basketball gun?
Speaker 2: No, we're not ain't good and we're good at golf.
Speaker 3: That I like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I like that. But thanks for coming on, man.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. And it was it was fun.
Speaker 3: I was a little nervous that. I hope I don't
Speaker 3: sound like too much of an idiot.
Speaker 2: No, it sounds sorry. I'm the one that say idiot.
Speaker 3: It was an honor idiot. Yeah, you guys can go
Speaker 3: out and play more golf. Yeah, I won't hold you.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll do it again. We'll get ye talk architecture more.
Speaker 3: Please. I appreciate that, all right. Thanks Thanks
Speaker 2: Naming Astern to many a stage