1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I'm talking about bitcoin 7 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: and crypto. One of the issues and one of the challenges. 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: I think it was an initially called out, notably by 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: Elon Musko of Tesla, is the carbon footprint left by 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: bitcoin mining. Our next guest thinks they have a solution. 11 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: Here Paul Prager, CEO and founder of Tera Wolf. They 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: are based in Eastern East. I'm sorry Eastern Maryland. Uh, Paul, 13 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us here. Talk to us 14 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: about carbon neutral bitcoin mining. Is that even a real 15 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: thing at this point? Yeah, Hi Paul here, and thank 16 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: you very much for having me on. Uh. Carols is 17 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: all about zero carbon missions. We've got sixty tho miners 18 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: on order. It's two hundred megawatts. We have fifty megawatts 19 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:11,199 Speaker 1: of minor capacity targeted for this year, three for next, 20 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: and eight hundred and their pipe and and and we're 21 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: targeting zero carbon emissions. That's not sort of getting even 22 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: carbon neutral, that's zero carbon emissions. Are energy resources are nuclear, 23 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: power and hydro. How do you do that though? How 24 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: do you get clean energy for bitcoin? So? Um so 25 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: nuclear doesn't emit any carbon, and hydro doesn't emit any carbon. 26 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: And I you know, the genesis of tera Wolf was 27 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: my company, bail Wolf. I've been in the energy infrastructure 28 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: business for almost thirty years. At its very core, at 29 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: the very core, bitcoin mining is energy infrastructure. So it's 30 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: the process of taking a locally produced commodity like electricity 31 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: from a sustainable resource hydro, nuke, turning it into a 32 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: globally traded commodity that stores value. So that's what we do. 33 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: We have a power purchase agreement on the nuclear power 34 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 1: facility in Pennsylvania, and we have a site infrastructure ready 35 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: that will be online this year with hydropower coming to it. 36 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: All right, So, Paul, you know, right now, the Infrastructure Bill, 37 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: and here in the studio we're watching video of the 38 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: Senators on the Center floor voting right now as we speak, 39 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: would require miners like tera Wolf to report tax data 40 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: to the I R. S that I don't even think 41 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 1: you even have access to. What would that requirement mean 42 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: for miners like you and for the crypto industry more broadly. Yeah, listen, 43 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: I generally would say legislation and regulation is a very 44 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: good thing for the bitcoin industry, right. It just further 45 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: substantiates the legitimacy of bitcoin, So I think it's a winner. 46 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: And no matter what. Second of all, I believe that 47 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: there will be several bytes at proper legislation, UH to 48 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: ensure that we're given responsibility these for things we can 49 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: comply with. Um. I I know that they'll focus on 50 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: the details as it goes into the house, but generally 51 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: we like regulation. It's something again, I've been in the 52 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: power business for thirty years. We've lived with their entire life. 53 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: And when legislation does come, I think it's going to 54 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: come along the lines of what's the energy resource? You know. 55 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: I think it likely comes in the form of a 56 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: carbon tax. I don't I don't think that legislation will 57 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: be burdensome if you will, just because you're mining bitcoin 58 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: or holding bitcoin. Legislation and regulation in the US is 59 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: one thing, but it's not the only player that's regulating 60 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: the crypto space. I mean in China the government banning mining, 61 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: and I'm wondering how that affected your operations. I mean, 62 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: I look at what China did as a crackdown as 63 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: opposed to responsible legislation. UM, I think it was. It 64 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: was listen net net it was. It was a great 65 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: result for us. We saw the hash rate come down, 66 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: so we were able to get a bigger piece of 67 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: the pie if you're an early mover in bitcoin mining. 68 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: Second of all, there was a shortage of miners um, 69 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: and and now they're readily available and there are better 70 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: prices and terms. So I think we were able to 71 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: sort of get a more prominent uh position, and we're 72 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: able to sort of get a bigger piece of the 73 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: pie now, uh, being that we're ready to roll here 74 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: as opposed to where the difficulty rate was much higher. 75 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: Uh just six months ago. Did you see an influx 76 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: of Chinese miners after they faned mining. Yeah, there are many, uh, 77 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: you know, really good quality credit Chinese miners that are 78 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: looking to come to United States. UM. There are some 79 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: things though here that you have to think about. You 80 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: have to have a site, you have to have uh 81 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: it permitted properly, you have to have transformers, so you 82 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: could step down the power. So I think again where 83 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: Tara Wolf is advantages. We have these sites, we have 84 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: the electricity contracted for, we have the transformers, and the 85 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: sites are shovel ready, and so there's a there's a 86 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: significant first mover advantage. But yeah, I think Chinese miners 87 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: very much trying to come here, and I think that's 88 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: good for bitcoin. Right, you're decentralizing, uh, a lot of 89 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: Chinese migration to the United States, and um, I think 90 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: that's all a win for bitcoin. Obviously, a lot of 91 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: this does come down at the end of the day 92 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: to concerns about the environmental impact. And there's a lot 93 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: of conversation when we talk about investing and you know, 94 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: treating our money with the environment and mine and kind 95 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: of these e s G issues. There's a question of greenwashing. 96 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: How do you convince people that what you're doing a 97 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: Tara Wolf is not that well, you know, again, we 98 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: are about zero carbon emission, so there's a big difference 99 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: between what we do, for instance, and another mining company that, 100 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: let's say uses a thermal resource and tries to get 101 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: the carbon neutrality by buying carbon credits. We don't have 102 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: carbon emissions, so it's not an issue for us. And 103 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: I believe that the industry in general is very responsible 104 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 1: and they disclose where their energy resources are coming from, 105 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: and so I think that ultimately investors will pick and 106 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: choose based on what their approaches. I think that the 107 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: other way that will be, you know, a big factor 108 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: is going to be in value. Again, we think that 109 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: legislation to the bitcoin mining industry will come more likely 110 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: in the form of a carbon tax, So that will 111 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: drive the cost on the margins for miners that are 112 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 1: emitting carbon to a higher level than they will for instance, 113 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: for Tera Wolf. So I think at the end of 114 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: the day, that's where the rubber will hit the road 115 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: and people will see the difference in the value opportunity. 116 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: Paul on June of this year, teara Wolf, I guess 117 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,239 Speaker 1: you merged with Iconics a spack. Give us an update 118 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: on that transaction and kind of where you are on that. Sure, Yeah, 119 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: we did a reverse combination. It's not a speck. In fact, 120 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: it's a reverse merger where we merge into a currently 121 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: listed company called Iconics icon x uh and we've filed 122 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: our S four proxy last week. We await you know, 123 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: all the customary approvals as you see everybody that needs 124 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: to chop on it. And hopefully, uh sometime late in 125 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: the third quarter early fourth quarter, we'll be trading on 126 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,559 Speaker 1: the Nastack under the ticker w U l F. Wolf 127 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: very excited about. It's a great transaction. Iconics was a 128 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: great company, really clean balance sheet, and so it made 129 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: a lot of sense. And do you view now as 130 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: a friendly time to come to the public markets? Absolutely, 131 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: I mean there are there are several comps out there, 132 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: so that that's a positive thing in terms of helping 133 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: people sort of take a look at at at the 134 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: industry and get a handle on value. I also think 135 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: that if you take a look at what what what's 136 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: in the infrastructure bill today, legislation means that bitcoin is 137 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: here to stay. It's part of the ecosystem. It's an 138 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: important part of it. It's an important generator revenue and 139 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: a store of value. So absolutely couldn't be a better 140 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: time for us. Well, you mentioned that infrastructure bill, Paul, 141 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: and we just had the headline crossing the terminal that 142 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: five hundred and fifty billion dollar bipartisan infrastructure bill has 143 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: passed the U. S Senate. We understand that a Vice 144 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: President Kamala Harris will gabble that vote, but again, that 145 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: measure has passed. This is the first part of President 146 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: Biden's long term economic spending plans, Paul. But it has 147 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: passed that hurdle. Yeah, absolutely, and that's obviously important, and 148 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: now we will go onto the other bigger, broader spending plan. 149 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: Paul Pregor, thanks so much for joining us to really 150 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: appreciate hearing that story. Paul Igor, CEO and founder of 151 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 1: Tariff based in eastern Maryland. And again, as Kayleie was 152 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: just reporting, the Senate has passed the infrastructure pack. The Senate, 153 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: as we said, is voting as we speak on this 154 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: UH infrastructure bill, and one of the hold ups was 155 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: cryptocurrency and taxation of cryptocurrency. I did not see that coming. 156 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: I was thinking about maybe they're talking about a road 157 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: or a bridge that needed to be included or excluded, 158 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: but no, it was crypto. UM, let's get some color 159 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: on that. We welcome Meltem Demure's chief strategy officer for 160 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: coin Shares Group. They have about five billion dollars in 161 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: assets under management. Meltem, thanks so much for joining us here. 162 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: What can you tell us about what is or is 163 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: not in this legislation as it relates to cryptocurrencies. Yeah, 164 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: it's great to be here, and thanks so much for 165 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: having me. Look, if there's anything we've learned over the 166 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: last five days, it's that lawmaking in the United States 167 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: is a very complicated process that many of us, as 168 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: it turns out, don't really understand so well. Um, I 169 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: think that's maybe an understatement. So here's basically what happened. Um. 170 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: Within the Infrastructure Bill, there were certain provisions that sought 171 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: to raise tax revenue, and one of those provisions was 172 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: clearer definition around what types of entities in the cryptocurrency 173 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: space would be required to provide tax reporting in the 174 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: form of TON ninety nine and those other documents that 175 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: your broker would typically send you at the end of 176 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: the year. And one of the key issues was was 177 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: in the initial language and the proposed Infrastructure Bill, the 178 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: definition of what constituted a broker was really really broad, 179 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: so that it would include cryptocurrency developers, software developers, bitcoin miners, 180 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: people operating nodes in different open blockchain network and basically 181 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: the language was really unworkable, and so we saw flew 182 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: of amendments that came out in the three days that followed, 183 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: including an amendment um sponsored by Senator to Me, one 184 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: sponsored by Senator Apartment, and another by Senator Cruise. None 185 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: of those amendments were voted on the infrastructure bill passed 186 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: as is. But certainly know that the House will be 187 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: taking up this cause. And we don't think this issue 188 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: is by any means over us as it stands. So 189 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: what does it actually mean for the crypto market and 190 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: crypto investors if it does indeed happen as it stands? Yeah, 191 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: I think again. Um, the impact of this this bill 192 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: is that it would impose a lot of reporting obligations 193 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: on entities that aren't really reporting entities. A lot of 194 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 1: activity in the crypto space is done through regulated platforms 195 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: that are registered as brokers. You might know names like 196 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 1: claim base or krack in or Gemini, all of whom 197 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: are exchanges that operate here in the United States, and 198 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: they're already providing tax reporting documents to their users. But 199 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 1: under this new language, their entities like software developers who 200 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: might develop an open source piece of software that's used 201 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: by anonymous people on the Internet that would not be 202 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: responsible for reporting. And again those individuals are not going 203 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: to have any idea who's downloaded their software and how 204 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: they're using it. That's the whole point of pure to 205 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 1: pure open source software, because I think once of the 206 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: challenge is really the way that the law has written 207 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: and the way that this technology actually works. They're really 208 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: fundamentally incompatible. And we continue to see this on the 209 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: regulatory front. This is a new type of technology, and 210 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: I think lawmakers in DC are really struggling to understand 211 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: how it fits into the existing regulatory frameworks that we 212 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: have so maltime. I know you've spent time in Washington, 213 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: d C. Talking crypto to the folks down there, and 214 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: I registered just today about how this whole five days 215 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: maybe have illustrated the fact that the crypto industry really 216 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: needs to up their lobbying game. What are your thoughts there? Yeah, absolutely, Look, 217 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,599 Speaker 1: a number of firms have been in Washington, D C. 218 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: Over the last seven years that I've been working in 219 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: this industry, and seven years doesn't feel like a lot, 220 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: but for the crypto industry, you know, it feels like 221 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: like a lifetime. Certainly, I think at the end of 222 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,839 Speaker 1: the day, there's sort of this fundamental misperception even in Washington, DC, 223 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: that crypto is not regulated, which is simply false. There's 224 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: an alphabet stoop of agencies from the SEC, to the CFCC, 225 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: to the i r S to the CFPD who oversee crypto, 226 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: who have issued guidance and continue to issue guidance. So 227 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: I think what's really needed is more education and advocacy. 228 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: But also I think what we're starting to see fifteen 229 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: percent of Americans own some type of cryptocurrency. This is 230 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 1: becoming an important voter issue and in the next election cycle, 231 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: you better believe that there are a number of Americans 232 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: who are really motivated and want to see a crypto 233 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: policy platform from their elected officials. So I believe in 234 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: future cycles, not only will we see more lobbying, more 235 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: advocacy from the crypto industry in DC, but on the 236 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: flip side, will also see more representatives more or less 237 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: the officials recognizing that in order to get elected, an 238 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: important part of their platform will need to be progressive 239 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: policy when it comes to not just cryptocurrencies themselves, but 240 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: blockchain technology and that critical digital infrastructure for America. But regulation. 241 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: At the end of the day, Melton doesn't just come 242 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: from Capitol Hill and from legislators. We also have you know, 243 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: the Gensler SEC, and on that front, or you hopeful 244 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: at all that we'll see a bitcoin e t F. UM. Look, 245 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: I think that bitcoin ets this is something we're an 246 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: asset manager. We don't have any products in the US market. 247 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: We love to have a product in the US market, 248 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: but thus far, the regulatory regime here has simply not 249 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: allowed for a publicly listed e t F for e 250 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: TP that tracks the underlying prices bitcoin to exist in 251 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: this market. We are optimistic that in the next three 252 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: to five years we will see more structured products in 253 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: the US market, but we're not optimistic that it will 254 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: happen in the near term. Again, I think there's still 255 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: a lot of uncertainty, and we have to date no 256 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: less than thirteen et F applications that have been filed 257 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: and the number of mutual fund applications that are in process. 258 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: Will continue to see more filings, more applications, But I 259 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: think UM Chairman Gunsler of the SEC made it perfectly 260 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: clear that his administrations certainly does not a plan to 261 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: prove any et F or any such product construction in 262 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: the near term. So I think for us, you know, 263 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: the outlook we have is sometime in the next nine 264 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: to twelve months might be possible, but more realistically we're 265 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: looking at two at the earliest. All Right, Malton, thank 266 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. We always appreciate getting 267 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: your thoughts in perspective. Melton Demure's chief strategy officer for 268 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: coin Shares based in London, and that et F question 269 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: is really on top of people's minds, Kaylee. And as 270 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: Melton mentioned, um Mr Gensler of the SEC kind of 271 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: he's I think he's positive towards this, but let's take 272 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: our time. It seems like he just kind of keeps 273 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: punting it and punting it. Maybe a future is bitcoin ETF, 274 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: Bitcoin futures ETF. Right, he kind of gave those hands, 275 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: but still we wait. Paul a lot, you have a 276 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: lot of demands, certainly for an e t F for bitcoin. 277 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: Will follow up on that story. This is Bloomberg. Let's 278 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: bring on right now. Jack Tran, CEO of James Hardy 279 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: Industries based in Chicago. Dr Tron, thanks so much for 280 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: joining us here. Uh give us just remind us and 281 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: remind our listeners what James Hardy Industries does within the 282 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: housing market. Right, So, good morning, Paul, thank you for 283 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: inviting me back. James Hardy. We we are the company 284 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: that transformed the way the world built by delivering more 285 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: athetically beautiful, safe, and more sustainable building products that really 286 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: grace the exteriors of homes across UM, the US, UM, Europe, 287 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: and Asia Pacific. And we're we're about three plus building 288 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: down company UM that is quite profitable and it's growing. Uh. So, 289 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,239 Speaker 1: obviously you have a pretty uniqu vantage point here into 290 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 1: the housing market in the dynamics within it, given how 291 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: high home prices are, how quickly houses are going off 292 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: the market. Are people now just looking more to renovate 293 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 1: the homes they're currently in than trying to buy a 294 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: new one, um, Kaylee, that is a very good insight. 295 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: That is correct because if we look at the new 296 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: home construction in the US today, uh, it is not 297 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 1: enough home built to meet the very big growing demand 298 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: because we do have a very big group of millennials 299 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: now really sought to to go into housing markets with 300 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: grown family and also at the same time, we have 301 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: a lot of folks now that stay at home. The 302 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 1: Wolf from Home and said they would like to do 303 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: a lot more renovation. But with with the rising prices. 304 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 1: What that means is that a lot of homeowners want 305 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: to look at how they can renovate their homes um 306 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: but at the same time enhance the value of their home. 307 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: So we do see a lot of activities that deal 308 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:12,479 Speaker 1: with the outdoor, how to improve the exterior of their homes, 309 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: how to make their outdoor living space a lot more 310 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: pleasant and yet at the same time enhance the value 311 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: the home. All right, we just want to update our 312 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: listeners on the vote ongoing on Capitol Hill and that 313 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: five fifty billion dollar bi partisan infrastructure package. That vote 314 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: is still ongoing, but we understand that the Senate does 315 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: have the votes to pass that by partisan infrastructure plans. 316 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: So we will continue to bring you up to date. 317 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 1: But it does look like Paul, that measure is going 318 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: to pass. Yes, that's coming in on schedule, So have 319 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: more of that coming up. Dr Trong. I mean, as 320 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: you take a look at going out here, I mean, 321 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 1: how do you think about housing demand, just broadly speaking, 322 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: over the next several quarters, whether it's renovation, new construction, 323 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: what's your market outlook? I'll walk it outlook, and it's 324 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: very robust and very wrong. Um. And what we see 325 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: is the renovation market will continue to grow because a 326 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: lot more homeowners would like to renovate their homes. UM. 327 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: So we do see that means can be grown quite nicely. 328 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 1: UH and certainly in new construction UH there is also 329 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: a strong demand. But that is that sector a litmited 330 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: more limited with the lack of skill, labor, and then 331 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: to a certain degree lack of materials certain materials. Yeah, 332 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: you know, we we talk a lot about supply chain 333 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: constraints in the higher input costs that have resulted from that. 334 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,479 Speaker 1: Are you charging more for your products? We're We're not 335 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: charging more as much of we are offering more about 336 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: differentiated products. For example, we uh in in the Hardy 337 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: brand exterior product to going to outside of the root 338 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: protected homes of h of the of the house, and 339 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: what we offer is of the Hardy brand products that 340 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: have already been pre finished in our factory with paints 341 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: and that would allow the homeowners to have different design 342 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: in their homes and be able to uh to really 343 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: protect their homes with very durable products aesthetically flees in 344 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: product and also enhance the value of their home. UM. 345 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: And that type of material is actually a lot more 346 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 1: easy to in install and and fast to install. So 347 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: essentially would provide the alternative to the homeowners relative to 348 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: bricks or stuck call um that's more expensive and also 349 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: slower to bill. So we we offer the alternative to 350 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: to those solutions. So we saw in you know, a 351 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: kind of a folks just kind of leaving urban centers, 352 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: leaving the city, is going for the bourbs looking for 353 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: more space. Is this a trend that you think is 354 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: going to continue and we'll see that in construction trends 355 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: or do you expect people to kind of come back 356 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: if you will, to some of those urban centers. Um, 357 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: we we do see a lot of trend moving out 358 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: into the burbs. But also lately, I would say the 359 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: past a few months that we do see some certain 360 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: migration back into the cities is because of the affordability 361 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: of certain homes out in the burbs. So it's quite 362 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: move moving back and forth through It depends on the 363 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: available ability of homes because there's certainly there's a lot 364 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 1: more demand right now than the supply. Yeah. Where there 365 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: also has a lot of demand is for workers. We 366 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: saw with the jolt stata here in the US yesterday 367 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: there's something like more than ten million jobs that are open, 368 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: more than there are in fact of people unemployed here 369 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: in the US. I know you have over forty dred 370 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: employees globally. I'm wondering how many openings you have and 371 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: if you're struggling to fill them. UM. It's certainly it 372 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: is an area that that that that we also experience 373 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 1: in the shortage of labor, and certainly in markets in 374 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: the West Coast that we do, we experience a higher 375 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: shortage of labor in in our facilities. UH. And you know, 376 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: it's really about come coming down to having to write 377 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: uh the value propriation for working at James Hardy. And 378 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: it is some something that we work very closely with 379 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: local communities to do really tell the story to be 380 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: able to attract the right candidates into our workforce. But 381 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: certainly that is UH that has been in uh in 382 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: an issue that persistence throughout the whole summer for us 383 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: as well. All Right, so I see your stock all 384 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: time high. Just real quickly, how are your earnings? We 385 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: we just reported our earnings and yesterday and it is 386 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: we're very pleased with the results. Globally, our net sales 387 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: increase by thirty five percent and our net income increased 388 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: by and what's very pleased and here is that all 389 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: three regions that we operated in North America, Europe, Asia 390 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: Pacific all had double digit growth in both the top 391 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: line and bottom line. And it's really a testament to 392 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: not only the growing market that we operate in, but 393 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,479 Speaker 1: also at the same time we're able to take share 394 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: in the marketplace and deliver more values to the homeowners 395 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: across the world. All Right, Dr Jack Tron, thank you 396 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 1: so much. We appreciated CEO of James Hardy Industries of 397 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: strong results of just recently in the stock hitting an 398 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: all time high and the growth of the housing market. Kay, 399 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,479 Speaker 1: we've got some wage inflation on Law Street. I think 400 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: we've been reading stories really over the last month or 401 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: so about you know, these new investment bankers coming in 402 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: and you gotta pay him some more money and all 403 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. But Mary Baker, she's a financial 404 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: reporter for Bloomberg. She joins us here on a Bloomberg 405 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: Interactive Broker story studio. She's got that story out today, 406 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: which is really interesting. JP Morgan boost pay for more 407 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: staff and not just the investment bankers, but other folks 408 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: as well. Mary, thanks so much for joining us here. 409 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: So who else is getting pay bumps here on Wall Street? Well? 410 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: Last yesterday, sorry, um, Jeffries Group also announced that they 411 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: were going to match Goldman Sachs, which announced last week 412 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: that it would be paying its junior investment banking analysts 413 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: hundred and ten thousands. So basically all summer um, the 414 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: banks have been raising pay to a hundred thousand. But 415 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: Goldman's text was kind of sitting around for a little 416 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: while waiting, and the recruiters and pay control and I've 417 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: been talking to said that they did that purposely and 418 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: kind of waited to come. They wanted to one up everybody. Yeah, 419 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 1: one up everyone. But now Jeffrey's Group is matching them, 420 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: So that came out yesterday as well. But a lot 421 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: a lot of these that we've been seeing have been 422 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: for the junior bankers, the lowest people on the totem pole. 423 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: What with JP Morgan, it's now expanding beyond that, right, Yeah, 424 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: So basically JP Morgan announced earlier this summer that they 425 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: would be paying their junior investment banking analysts more, but 426 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: now they're expanding it out to other analysts within their 427 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: corporate investment banking division. So that's going to include sales, 428 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: trading and research analysts. It's all under the same division, 429 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: but it's beyond just investment banking analysts now. So it 430 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: seems like they're trying to attract more analysts, which means 431 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: they're probably really busy this summer, which is what we've 432 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: been seeing in terms of revenue. Yeah. So you know, 433 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 1: when I worked on Wall Street, it was you know, 434 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: obviously it was all about compensation. You started thinking about 435 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: your bonus probably you know midyear, if the summer you 436 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 1: started really started jockeying and starting to you know, pitch 437 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: and everything. Um. But now more of the compensations is 438 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: in salary versus bonus. So these pay increases are these 439 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: are salary increases are really important. They are really important. 440 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: I think analysts that any analysts are in the job 441 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: market right now are looking at what the base pay 442 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: will be and all summer long. I mean from what 443 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: we're we've been hearing and our reporting is that Goldman 444 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: Tax was saying we don't really need the razor base pay. 445 00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 1: But now they've they've come in line. I think they 446 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: realize that anyone that's looking to go out and get 447 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: a job as an analysis investment analysts wants to see 448 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 1: their base pay at least a hundred thousand. They wanted 449 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: to match what where the other banks are coming in. 450 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: But we do think the bonuses are still going to 451 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: be big this year. Yeah, the banks have a lot 452 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: of money coming in. I would bet that the guys 453 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: at the top are getting paid a pretty a pretty 454 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: nice sum as well. How does this tale into the 455 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: work from home equation? Because you're paying people more, does 456 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: that mean I'm gonna want you back in the office. 457 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: I'm not going to pay you more if you're gonna 458 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: be sitting at home and not commuting in Well, I 459 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: think the banks, each bank has a different return to 460 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: work policy going on right now. I mean, we know 461 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: Goldman Sax and JP Morgan want they're people back in 462 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: the office. We know that helps with camaraderie, um. But 463 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: we do think that the bank, sorry, the pay raises 464 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: are in part to help keep the anilysts that are 465 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: part working from home. It has been hard working from 466 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: home from them, they've I mean, in March Goldman Sax 467 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: Anilysts put out presentation outlining just how hard it's Been's 468 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 1: kind of what started this whole thing, really, right, Yes, 469 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: I mean when I was in the same group of 470 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: these kids working weeks, and it was hard. That's a 471 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 1: lot um, but you had the camaraderie of literally being 472 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: in a room like this where all the analysts were 473 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: in a bullpen, that's what we called the bullpen, and 474 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 1: y'all could lean on each other and you all could 475 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 1: go after drinks afterwards. That likely. But boy, if you're 476 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: stuck at home by yourself, that would be tough. So 477 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 1: I guess they're trying to, you know, say hey, we 478 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: recognize what you guys are going through, and we want 479 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: to try to help out. And one of the ways 480 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: we can do it is pay more money. I guess 481 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: I think that's part of it. And then they want 482 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 1: to keep the analysts that they have on. I mean, 483 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: we know that there's been a lot of churn going 484 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: on within their analysts ranks, so analysts are looking to 485 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: jump out of the banks sooner than when their two 486 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: year analyst programs are up, so they're looking to go 487 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: buy side. I've been hearing that a lot of investment 488 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: banking analysts that go into the banks go in just 489 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: specifically to stand for two years and get out and 490 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: go buy side. As fast as they can. They want 491 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: to go to private equity for as they want to 492 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: go to hedge funds. They see that work is more fulfilling, 493 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: more fun, kind of more like skin in the game. 494 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: So that's so from all the reporting and all the 495 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: people you've been talking to, do you have any reason 496 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: to believe this kind of race to the top in 497 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: terms of the talent competition is going to cool down anytime? Sooner? 498 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: Are we going to keep talking about these stories of 499 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: banks paying people more. I don't think it's going to 500 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: cool down anytime soon. It seems like it's just ramping 501 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: up more and more and more. Are they finding hearing? 502 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: Are they finding competition offers like the tech industry, Because 503 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: when I came out of business school there really it 504 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: was either you go to consulting, you go to investment banking. 505 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: But now technology and like the Amazon's the Apple, I 506 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 1: mean that's a big threat too. I mean, not only 507 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: are analysts leaving the banks to go to the by 508 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: side firms, but they're also going in tech. They're going 509 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: to startups any any place that who can pay them 510 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: just as much but maybe offer them a bit of 511 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: a better work life balance. I was going to say, 512 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: a lot of those tech companies have, you know, the 513 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: massive campuses out on the West Coast and all of 514 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: the benefits working from home. It seems as more lenient 515 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: for a lot of those kind of Silicon Valley players 516 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: than it is for banks on Wall Street. Paul, Yeah, exactly. 517 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: And I think that's gonna be a big issue. And 518 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: we've seen that from you know, the business schools. They 519 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: have to be uh, you know, they have to you know, 520 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: get their people ready to go out to the West 521 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: Coast and technology. Hey, Mary, thanks so much for joining us. 522 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: We really appreciate a great story. Mary Bakert, finance reporter 523 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: for Bloomberg, joining us here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker's 524 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: studio and Kaylee, it's a it's interesting, I think, is 525 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: your question. Are they're going to keep raising this this 526 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: these salaries. I think I'll be interesting to see when 527 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: they people do come back to work and and and 528 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: what that means for the work environment, because that's so 529 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: important for you know a lot of these uh investment 530 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: banks that do work long, long hours. Yeah, totally. And 531 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: then when in terms of doing deals, are you going 532 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: to be getting back on airplanes having more of that 533 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: kind of grueling travel schedule. It's not just about return 534 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: to the office, it's about return to the general deal 535 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: making environment, because obviously that has been very different over 536 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: the last year and change. Thanks for listening to the 537 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews 538 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform and you prefer. 539 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller N 540 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,959 Speaker 1: seventy three, and I'm fall Sweeney. I'm on Twitter at 541 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always catch us 542 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: worldwide at Bloomberg Radio.