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Speaker 1: Hey lady, is doctor Dom here. If you like this

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Speaker 2: Black people were needed to build the things they built

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Speaker 2: in this country, right, the railroads, the White House, all

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Speaker 2: that stuff. Right, they were a commodity. We were a commodity.

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Speaker 2: And now that we're in a place where we survive

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Speaker 2: past the point where they, I guess thought we were

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Speaker 2: going to survive. They don't need us anymore. So now

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Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, we got to figure out how to

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Speaker 2: get rid of these black people. And that's what it

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Speaker 2: seems like it's happening when you think about just the violence,

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Speaker 2: the lack of resources in our communities, and so there's

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Speaker 2: a lot going on. But again, I'm really hopeful, and

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Speaker 2: it's so beautiful to see us still out here doing

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Speaker 2: our things, still flourishing, still thriving. That's what's inspiring to me.

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Speaker 2: And just hearing this conversation, like us having this amazing

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Speaker 2: conversation tonight, it really gave me a lot of energy

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Speaker 2: and joy. So ah, it makes me happy to do

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Speaker 2: the work that we do.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting women

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Speaker 1: like you.

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Speaker 3: We're your hosts doctor.

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Speaker 1: Dominique Broussard, a college professor and psychologist.

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Speaker 2: And Terry Lomax, a techie and a motivational speaker. In

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Speaker 2: a world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood,

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Speaker 2: please join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything

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Speaker 2: from fibroids to fake friends, and create a safe space

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Speaker 2: where black women can just flee. Hey, lady, It's Terry

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Speaker 2: here from the Hurstpace podcast and I have a question

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Speaker 2: for you. Do you want to start your own podcast?

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Speaker 2: Have you been thinking to yourself, you know what, I

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Speaker 2: want to start a podcast, but you just haven't taken

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Speaker 2: the leap. If that's you, I got you. I am

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Speaker 2: hosting a free podcasting masterclass where I'm going to teach

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Speaker 2: you how to create your own podcasts from start to finish.

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Speaker 2: So visit Terrylomax dot com and click on the pink

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Speaker 2: link in the middle of your screen and register for

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Speaker 2: my free podcasting masterclass. All right, ladies, today we have

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Speaker 2: a very special guest in her space. Okay, so get

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Speaker 2: yourself ready for this. Doctor Candace Nicole Hargon's is an

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Speaker 2: award winning Assistant Professor of Counseling Psychology at the University

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Speaker 2: of Kentucky, where she studies sex, social justice, and leadership,

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Speaker 2: all with a love ethic. She is also a licensed

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Speaker 2: psychologist and founding director of the Center for Healing Racial Trauma.

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Speaker 2: She has been featured and did Housekeeping, Women's Health, Elavity,

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Speaker 2: the Huffington Post, and The New York Times. Doctor Candace Nicole,

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Speaker 2: Welcome to her Space.

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Speaker 4: Hey y'all, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: Oh, you are so welcome.

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Speaker 1: We are so excited to have you here today, and

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Speaker 1: so we are going to jump right in and our

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Speaker 1: quote of the day may sound really familiar to you.

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Speaker 1: Black people don't need video evidence to know. And that

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Speaker 1: quote comes to us from doctor Candace Nicole. Doctor Candace Nicole,

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Speaker 1: When you wrote that quote, I have a sense of

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Speaker 1: what it means for me. But since you wrote it,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious about what was coming up for you that

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Speaker 1: led to you writing that quote.

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Speaker 5: We were right in the middle of the George Floyd

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Speaker 5: case and we were having some discussion amongst my friends

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Speaker 5: and colleagues about whether people had seen the video and

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Speaker 5: what the importance of bearing witness to that was. And

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Speaker 5: this is a multi racial group of colleagues, and I

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Speaker 5: was like, no, Black people don't need that type of evidence.

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Speaker 5: We don't need to bear witness to that to know.

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Speaker 5: Someone could tell me and I would believe it. And

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Speaker 5: so I'm not going to subject myself to vicarious trauma

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Speaker 5: just so that I can have further confirmation of something

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Speaker 5: that I already believe.

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Speaker 4: Trust know at a bone level that.

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Speaker 2: Is so deep and so powerful and also sad at

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Speaker 2: the same time, I feel like, right, I know, when

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Speaker 2: I saw that quote on your Instagram, I literally got goosebumps,

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Speaker 2: like I chills ran down my spine. It made me

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Speaker 2: think about how a lot of our contemporaries and colleagues

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Speaker 2: they've needed to see video. They've always you know, asked

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Speaker 2: questions and be like, oh, well maybe this happened. And

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Speaker 2: now even when they have evidence, there's always well what

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Speaker 2: about this? And we really need it because we knew. Right,

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Speaker 2: that is just so powerful.

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Speaker 5: Because it's not a philosophical conversation, right, and this isn't

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Speaker 5: something you could just theorize about. It's everyday life fears

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Speaker 5: and worries that we're walking in the world holding. So no,

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Speaker 5: I don't need to see a video. I will not

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Speaker 5: watch another video if I can at all prevent it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I feel the same way. It's I

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Speaker 1: try my hardest not to watch any videos, yes, just

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Speaker 1: like you said, to prevent that vicarious trauma.

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Speaker 5: M And I know for sure that the trauma is

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Speaker 5: real because my research is related to listening. Just listening

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Speaker 5: to an audio raises your heart rate, So if the

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Speaker 5: audio of something racially harassing your heart rate, the video

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Speaker 5: is certainly going to do more to your body and

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Speaker 5: just who needs that?

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Speaker 3: Wow?

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Speaker 1: So okay, I have a question about the research. So

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Speaker 1: talk to us a little bit about what your research

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Speaker 1: has shown, because we know anecdotally that from us having

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Speaker 1: conversations with one another, that vicarious trauma.

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Speaker 3: Is a real thing.

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Speaker 1: But your research is showing that there is busy logical

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Speaker 1: changes in the body. So can you tell us a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about that.

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Speaker 5: Yes, so is the Healing Racial Trauma Study. And my

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Speaker 5: research team at University of Kentucky, the Ryce Square research team,

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Speaker 5: who did the study about a year and a half

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Speaker 5: two years ago now, and we basically had consenting black

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Speaker 5: college students listened to a five minute audio clip of

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Speaker 5: a self identified white woman using racially harassing, negative stereotypical

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Speaker 5: language about black people while we connected them to a

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Speaker 5: biometric monitor that measured their heart rate. And our research

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Speaker 5: showed overwhelmingly that most people had a spike in their

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Speaker 5: heart rate when they heard the audio, so we showed

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Speaker 5: it physiologically, but then we interviewed them and asked them

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Speaker 5: about their experience of it, and all of them confirmed that, yes,

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Speaker 5: that is a racist stimulus, that is racial harassment, and

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Speaker 5: they talked about they're different ways of experiencing that and

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Speaker 5: reacting to it. Some people cried, some people's bodies were

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Speaker 5: literally shaking like all kinds of somatic symptoms. Some people

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Speaker 5: expressed a range of emotions, and some people even had

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Speaker 5: these cognitive strategies they were using to try to understand

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Speaker 5: it or distance themselves from the pain they felt related

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Speaker 5: to it. So we know psychologically and physiologically that this

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Speaker 5: stuff affects us just an audio. We absolutely know a

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Speaker 5: video will do more.

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Speaker 2: That is heart for me, and I mean for me personally.

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Speaker 2: I think that the term racial trauma is new. However,

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Speaker 2: the feelings and the things behind it are not right,

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Speaker 2: and so can we just dive into like what is

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Speaker 2: racial trauma? And the second part of that question we

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Speaker 2: got to put in there is how does it specifically

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Speaker 2: impact Black women?

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Speaker 5: Do you want the researchy definition or do you want

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Speaker 5: the community definition?

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Speaker 4: Shoot?

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Speaker 2: Give us both of.

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Speaker 5: Them, Okay, So the community definition is racial trauma is

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Speaker 5: when the affects, the negative effects of racism stick with

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Speaker 5: you for a long time, affecting how you think, how

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Speaker 5: you feel emotionally and physically if you ignore it, so

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Speaker 5: it causes you to suffer. And this can be based

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Speaker 5: on whether the racist experience was one severe experience like

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Speaker 5: a police encounter, or regular repetitive experiences like microaggressions. So

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Speaker 5: not every racist thing will lead to racial trauma, but

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Speaker 5: how you experience it, how you appraise it, and how

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Speaker 5: you deal with it as an individual can help you

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Speaker 5: heal because everybody doesn't heal the same way.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't affect everyone the same way.

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Speaker 5: So that's the community definition of racial trauma. And then

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Speaker 5: I'll have to pull up the researching definition of racial trauma.

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Speaker 5: We just submitted a paper on this, so I was like, well,

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Speaker 5: let's let's go for it.

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Speaker 1: Then, yes, let's have it out there in the research, like,

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Speaker 1: let it be clear, let it be readily accessible to academics,

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Speaker 1: to other researchers and scientists, so that they know that

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Speaker 1: this is real, so that they start taking us seriously.

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Speaker 1: When when our community members come in and they're sitting

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Speaker 1: in the therapist's office and they are speaking about these things,

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Speaker 1: we know that a lot of therapists, particularly white Western

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Speaker 1: trained therapists, will go by evidence based practice. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: if racial trauma is not a term that's in the research,

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Speaker 1: then a lot of them are not going to take

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Speaker 1: it seriously.

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Speaker 5: Come on, and let me be clear. Racial trauma has

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Speaker 5: been a term in the research since two thousand and five.

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Speaker 5: I mean, if they were looking for it, they could

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Speaker 5: have found it. But the reason why we decided to

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Speaker 5: do our study and the way we did is because

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Speaker 5: mostly psychologists and theorists have defined racial trauma, but we

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Speaker 5: wanted to have a grounded definition of racial trauma based

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Speaker 5: on black people explaining what it was to them. And

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Speaker 5: so the academic definition is racial trauma is the experience

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Speaker 5: of enduring cognitive, effective, and or sematic responses to racism,

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Speaker 5: including race based stress reactions like the immediate reaction that

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Speaker 5: you get when you hear or experience something racist, and

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Speaker 5: subsequent race based stress symptoms. And they manifest based on

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Speaker 5: the intensity or frequency of racist stressors. So not every

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Speaker 5: stressor leads to racial trauma, but those that are especially

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Speaker 5: intense or frequent are more likely to elicit racial trauma.

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Speaker 5: And it's the absence of a repertoire of coping or

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Speaker 5: healing strategies that increases the likelihood that you'll experience racial trauma.

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Speaker 5: So for some of us, we over rely on a

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Speaker 5: single coping strategy even if it's adaptive, it's not going

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Speaker 5: to be sufficient to protect against the accumulation of race

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Speaker 5: based stress because it's racism is all around us. And

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Speaker 5: we also want to note that, you know, it's not

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Speaker 5: the responsibility of people who have been injured by racism

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Speaker 5: to heal themselves because health resources are not equitably distributed.

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Speaker 5: But when you do move forward into healing collectively and

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Speaker 5: as an individual, it will facilitate symptom reduction and promote

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Speaker 5: racial healing.

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Speaker 1: Ooh, yes, thank you for the work that you are doing, because,

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Speaker 1: my god, the amount of stress and trusuma that we experience.

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Speaker 5: That people take for granted. Yes, some of us have

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Speaker 5: even become numb to it, frankly out of survival.

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Speaker 3: Ooh that part out of survival.

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Speaker 2: That's a good point. And that was so powerful all

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Speaker 2: that you just shared. And when we think about the

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Speaker 2: way it shows up for or in black women, what

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Speaker 2: are some of those I guess symptoms if we had

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Speaker 2: to call them.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so it can show up in Superwoman's schema and overwork.

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Speaker 5: It's me, I'm speaking to myself right now.

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Speaker 4: Loud loud.

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Speaker 5: It can show up as fatigue, deep deep fatigue, lack

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Speaker 5: of motivation, difficulty concentrating, hypervigilant, so always looking out for something,

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Speaker 5: feeling constantly tints, headaches, stomach aches, shoulder jaw, neck tints.

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Speaker 5: It can look like irritability, whereas a lot of people

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Speaker 5: are like why why do black women have attitudes? But like,

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Speaker 5: that's not it. Some of us are experiencing depressive symptoms

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Speaker 5: related to racial trauma. Some of us are experiencing anxiety symptoms,

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Speaker 5: and some of us are experiencing PTSD. But it can

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Speaker 5: also look like fibroids. It can also look like high

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Speaker 5: blood pressure. It can also look like Harry vascular disease

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Speaker 5: and diabetes. People in the research have already begun to

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Speaker 5: connect these to racial trauma, and so noticing those pieces

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Speaker 5: that are disproportionately affecting our community is important because people

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Speaker 5: think it's just our personal behaviors and it's not. When

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Speaker 5: you control for all of that, you still see how

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Speaker 5: racism has shifted the or increased the amount of health

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Speaker 5: burden we have.

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Speaker 3: Wow. I'm probably gonna say wow like a lot.

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Speaker 2: I know my mind is blown. I'm just like mind

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Speaker 2: blown the emoji like whoa.

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Speaker 1: Because it's things that I knew m h.

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Speaker 4: But because you know it on a gut level, right,

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Speaker 4: you know?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I think about like my own personal experience with fibroids.

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Speaker 1: I think about so many other Black women that I

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Speaker 1: know who have fibroids, who have anxiety, who have depression,

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Speaker 1: who have high blood pressure, all of these things. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And I think there's some level of validation in hearing

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Speaker 1: that it's not us, that it's the environment around us

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Speaker 1: that has created this.

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Speaker 2: And can we talk about doctor Candice Nicole? Can we

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Speaker 2: talk about why it appears to be so challenging for

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Speaker 2: certain groups to acknowledge and understand racial trauma when it

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Speaker 2: comes to black people. I feel like for other races,

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Speaker 2: it's understandable, right, You're like, oh, Okay, I can understand

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Speaker 2: why this community might feel this way while they may

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Speaker 2: talk about their history and the things that have happened

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Speaker 2: to them. But I feel like whenever it comes to

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Speaker 2: Black people, it's like this, Oh, pull yourself up by

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Speaker 2: the boot straps, and it's like, well, the whole system

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Speaker 2: is made to weaken us in our community. How the

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Speaker 2: hell are we supposed to do that?

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Speaker 1: Right? Why is it so.

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Speaker 2: Hard for people to just get it when it comes

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Speaker 2: to black people? Like there's a war against blackness, You

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Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like this is real.

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Speaker 5: I don't think that it's art. I think people use

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Speaker 5: anti blackness as a vehicle for their own racial uplift.

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Speaker 5: And so if you're going to use black people in

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Speaker 5: that way, you have to continue to resolve your cognitive

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Speaker 5: dissonance by denial, Like you have to actively be in

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Speaker 5: delusion to see the disparities very visibly and still call

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Speaker 5: it like it isn't still pretend as if it doesn't exist.

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Speaker 4: Still pretend as if the.

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Speaker 5: People who are suffering and marginalize and grieving are the problem.

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Speaker 5: You can't be privy to any amount of pain that

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Speaker 5: other human beings are experiencing and exist as if it

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Speaker 5: doesn't affect you unless you have dehumanized them. And so

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Speaker 5: I think that a lot of people have contempt for

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Speaker 5: black people, disgust of black people, and an intention to

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Speaker 5: distance them because they want to use backness as or

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Speaker 5: their ideas about blackness as the way that they aligned

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Speaker 5: with whiteness. So that's people of color who are non black,

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Speaker 5: and that's white people.

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Speaker 2: You better preach. Okay, come on now, okay, we've got

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Speaker 2: to dive in deeper.

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Speaker 4: Inness. Tell us.

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Speaker 2: More about this, Okay, what else? What else you've been researching?

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Speaker 2: Doctor Kansas?

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Speaker 5: Because the school systems are complicit and we know that. Yes,

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Speaker 5: if K through twelve all you learned about was ROSA

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Speaker 5: parts and MLK and slavery, then our education system missed

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Speaker 5: a whole opportunity to be honest. It just missed an

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Speaker 5: opportunity to be honest. And it also was complicit in

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Speaker 5: creating a delusion. It's like Easter bunnies and Santa Claus

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Speaker 5: and no racism exists. All of that goes together, and

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Speaker 5: so people buy into this because they're like, oh, I

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Speaker 5: wasn't exposed to it, but did you grow up in

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Speaker 5: a predominantly white neighborhood on unseated indigenous lands? Like if

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Speaker 5: you did, then you know that racism exists. Like you

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Speaker 5: can still these stories together. But I always say, the

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Speaker 5: United States has amazing branding. So we can weave a

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Speaker 5: story about melting pots and weave a narrative and paint

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Speaker 5: a beautiful picture about everyone being treated equally, even while

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Speaker 5: people bring picnic baskets to lynchings.

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Speaker 1: That part, yes, And so when we think about this,

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Speaker 1: about this level of vitriol towards blackness and how we

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Speaker 1: as black people have to exist in this right if

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Speaker 1: we are saying, Okay, you know what, I'm sick and

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Speaker 1: tired of being sick and tired, right, and I need

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Speaker 1: to heal. I don't want to be anxious. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to be depressed. I don't want to have bibroids

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Speaker 1: or high blood pressure or any of the other medical

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Speaker 1: conditions that can come up. How do we pour into ourselves?

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Speaker 1: What do we do for healing from this racial trauma?

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Speaker 5: I think we all inherently have healing strategies that came

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Speaker 5: to us as kids. Things we love to do, things

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Speaker 5: we could do for hours that were fun to us

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Speaker 5: that we forget or get socialized out as adults. Right,

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Speaker 5: So for me, I used to write a lot more

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Speaker 5: like poetry and stories, creative like imaginative things, play music,

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Speaker 5: listen to music, write it all of that, Like, those

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Speaker 5: are strategies for healing if we return to those things

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Speaker 5: that brought us joy in childhood. That's one really main strategy.

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Speaker 5: Joy is resistance and healing. So not buying into this

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Speaker 5: toxic seriousness of the academy or corporate America or professional

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Speaker 5: organizations and really still reclaiming your joy, like I don't

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Speaker 5: know about y'all, but I have enjoyed these versus battles

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Speaker 5: and ye and laughing. That's black joy, you know, and

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Speaker 5: black healing. I have felt well after watching Patty. But

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Speaker 5: another thing is affirmation. So self affirmation serves to deprogram

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Speaker 5: some of those racist stereotypes that have been embedded in

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Speaker 5: our culture so frequently that we internalize those messages and

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Speaker 5: we don't even realize it a lot of the time.

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Speaker 5: So saying things that affirm your inherent worth and value

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Speaker 5: every single day, things that affirm the beauty of the

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Speaker 5: hair that grows out of your scalp, and the eyes

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Speaker 5: that you have in the lips that you have, in

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Speaker 5: the nose that you have, and your way of being

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Speaker 5: and how loud you laugh, or whatever it is about

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Speaker 5: you that has some cultural origin, like affirming those things

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Speaker 5: consciously affirming those things daily. So I have my clients

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Speaker 5: sometimes put sticky notes on their windows, or write the

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Speaker 5: affirmations in their journal daily, or just set an alarm

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Speaker 5: on their phone to save them out loud in the

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Speaker 5: morning and let them know that it's going to take time.

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Speaker 5: Like you might not even believe some of these good

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Speaker 5: things about yourself initially because you've been socialized to believe

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Speaker 5: so differently, but over time it erodes. That helps you

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Speaker 5: divest from these white ideas about you. Another thing is

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Speaker 5: taking good care of your physical and mental health. So

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Speaker 5: therapy with a therapist who knows and who gets it,

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Speaker 5: and physical wellness are so core because, as we described earlier,

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Speaker 5: we experience racial trauma sematically physiologically in our health outcomes.

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Speaker 5: And so I bought a used elliptical machine a few

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Speaker 5: weeks ago.

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Speaker 4: I told my husband.

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Speaker 5: I was like, I can't sustain this level of work

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Speaker 5: and this amount of energy doing this anti racist work

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Speaker 5: if I don't take better care of myself physically. So

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Speaker 5: now I commit to Okay, I'm going to get on

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Speaker 5: this elliptical for thirty minutes, watch my little show, and

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Speaker 5: do right by my body because that's what's going.

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Speaker 4: To help me be well.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's another strategy, community care, collective care, engaging in resistance.

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Speaker 5: So everybody doesn't have to be in protest, but if

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Speaker 5: protest is your thing, being on the front lines, do that.

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Speaker 5: That can facilitate your wellness. But sometimes writing is your protest.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes a podcast like this is your protest, you know,

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Speaker 5: And so speaking up at work, might be someone's protests.

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Speaker 5: Those things actually do feel healing and liberating even though

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Speaker 5: they feel scary.

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Speaker 2: Those are beautiful examples. And I'm getting a little emotional

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Speaker 2: just thinking about.

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Speaker 4: Wow. Okay, we're emotion you know. I thank you.

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Speaker 2: I think what's coming up for me is just that

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Speaker 2: we have been through so much as a community. We

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Speaker 2: are still fucking here. We are still doing the damn thing.

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Speaker 2: We are still you know, investing in our self care.

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Speaker 2: We are still showing up, We are still giving back

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Speaker 2: to our communities. Yes, And I think that one thing

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Speaker 2: we often talk about on the podcast Doctor Candice is

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Speaker 2: that when you sit down a lot it we have

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Speaker 2: a lot against us as a community, as a people,

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Speaker 2: and to see us still thriving, to see us still

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Speaker 2: showing up and wanted to do better in the midst

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Speaker 2: of a system of white supremacy that really does not

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Speaker 2: mean us any good. We won't die like we are here,

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Speaker 2: you feel me, okay, And it's just like hearing you.

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Speaker 2: I can't wait to re listen to this episode. So

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Speaker 2: I'm just like, oh my gosh, this is so good

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Speaker 2: for the soul. I want to talk to you about

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Speaker 2: one thing because I can already see this is something

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Speaker 2: that comes up often. I think it's personally a way

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Speaker 2: to gas like black people. But people often talk about

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Speaker 2: the victim mentality, and it's so interesting because it's like, well,

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Speaker 2: we are being victimized, although we choose to be victors.

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Speaker 2: So where does the victim mentality come into place around

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Speaker 2: these topics of racial trauma.

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Speaker 5: I think you're right about it being gaslighting. What I

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Speaker 5: call that when someone uses that language, it's a conversation

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Speaker 5: foreclosure where you're seeking to stop the conversation because whoever

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Speaker 5: you is that technique is feeling uncomfortable. They can't sit

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Speaker 5: with the discomfort of having something about racism unpacked for them,

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Speaker 5: or having to reconcile what their identity is and how

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Speaker 5: they have been involved and complicit in racism, and so

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Speaker 5: they foreclose on the conversation by saying you're just being

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Speaker 5: a victim, when really it's a lack of tolerance for

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Speaker 5: their own discomfort. So recognizing that you don't have to

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Speaker 5: buy into the pain of that gas lighting as much

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Speaker 5: because you see that person for who they are. You

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Speaker 5: see them as a person who has such a lack

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Speaker 5: of tolerance for their own discomfort that they can't empathize

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Speaker 5: with you. It really is underdeveloped empathy skills. And when

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Speaker 5: you have power, the more power and privilege you have

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Speaker 5: in a society, the less developed those skills get to

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Speaker 5: be because people don't even expect you to develop them.

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Speaker 5: We operate in so many ways to preserve the comfort

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Speaker 5: of white people. I think about the language we use,

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Speaker 5: the linguistic style we use, the clothes we wear like,

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Speaker 5: the volume we use, the way we express or do

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Speaker 5: not express affect that all of these dispositions, little nuances

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Speaker 5: of what we call professionalism really only seek to uphold

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Speaker 5: white people's comfort for the most part, and their ability

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Speaker 5: to easily move through life as comfortable and safe feeling

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Speaker 5: as possible. But I just shared this on my social

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Speaker 5: media the other day. I was like, there have been

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Speaker 5: so few moments in my life as a black woman

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Speaker 5: where I have felt protected or safe. I think of

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Speaker 5: safety as a social construct that doesn't really exist for me,

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Speaker 5: and I think there have been people in my life

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Speaker 5: who thought they were facilitating my safety, but not enough

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Speaker 5: people who really know the things that I feel at

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Speaker 5: risk of, are afraid of, and to be used to

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Speaker 5: that at thirty seven is the way I think most

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Speaker 5: black women and people of color broadly operate that we

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Speaker 5: don't even expect safety. We desire it, but we don't

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Speaker 5: expect it. And I think most white people expect safety

438
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 5: because there are systems in place and even people in

439
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 5: place to uphold their sense of safety. We don't have

440
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 5: the same luxury.

441
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a valid point. Just think about all

442
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 1: of the Karens and the Becky's out there that automatically

443
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: go to calling the police yes and lying on us

444
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: when either they're in the wrong or for whatever reason,

445
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: they feel uncomfortable with witnessing.

446
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 5: Our joy, Yes, our joy, not even violence, just our joy.

447
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 1: Joy, you know, because I think about like the examples

448
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: that made national news a couple of years ago with

449
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: barbecue Becky, And I'm here in Oakland, not that far

450
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: from where that happened, and I know that, like from

451
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: talking with people who have lived in Oakland for decades,

452
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: that black folks gathering around the lake has been happening

453
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: for decades, right, And here you have this white woman

454
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 1: who is uncomfortable with black folks gathering to just be themselves,

455
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: to be in community with one another.

456
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 3: And there was no violence.

457
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: So when there's no violence, that means that we are

458
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: defying those negative stereotypes.

459
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 4: Yep, I mean you are speaking on it.

460
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 5: I can count on one hand the number of times

461
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 5: I have called the police and I was in physical

462
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 5: violent danger, that is it. And it had to be extreme,

463
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 5: like someone broken too my house, you know what I mean? Like,

464
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 5: Rather would I ever think to see somebody enjoying themselves

465
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 5: and call the police on them.

466
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 4: That would never cross my mind.

467
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 2: And I think the sick thing about it is that

468
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 2: because of everything in the media, they're complicit. They know

469
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: what goes down. When the cops come for black people,

470
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,959
Speaker 2: somebody could possibly die, and so they should be held

471
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 2: accountable for that. And I know sometimes they have been,

472
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 2: but they should be held accountable. That is like a

473
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: necessary to a murder. Potentially, when you know that you

474
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 2: calling the cops on black people could potentially have someone

475
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 2: lose their lives that's unarmed for no reason. Little kids

476
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 2: even so, that just makes me think, Doctor Candis Nicole,

477
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: you share some really great tips for black women. Is

478
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 2: there anything in particular that you would advise folks to

479
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: do with their children because kids are now in this

480
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 2: world of social media, they're witnessing this and I can

481
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 2: imagine having a little one having to explain to them

482
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: why their blackness and the color of their skin because

483
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 2: you know, kids are honest, right, they're like that should

484
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,479
Speaker 2: don't make sense? Okay, Like what do we do? How

485
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 2: do we help our kids heal?

486
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 5: I think that racial socialism is such an important opportunity

487
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 5: we have where we can let kids know that people

488
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 5: are going to lie about them, and be really clear

489
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 5: that it's a lie, that all these stereotypes that they

490
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 5: may try to impose on them are not true, and

491
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 5: that you know who they really are and you will

492
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 5: continue to affirm it. You can prepare them without making

493
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 5: them shrink. And that's I think the difference maker there

494
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 5: where you're thinking about how some of us, and I

495
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 5: understand where it comes from, try to get our kids

496
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 5: to wear a certain haircut, wear certain clothes. Don't say this,

497
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 5: never speak up, stay under the radar, always be one

498
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 5: hundred percent perfect and excellent. I get where that comes from,

499
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 5: but in what world do children operate that way? Let

500
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 5: your children be free and also inform them that some

501
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 5: people will see their joy and want to attack it.

502
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 5: Some people will see them playing and want to annihilate them,

503
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 5: and that that's because they believe lies about them. They

504
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 5: don't know who they really are, and so affirming their history,

505
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 5: giving them opportunities to read about all of these amazing

506
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 5: black figures in history before the United States even existed,

507
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 5: and currently giving them opportunities to play with other kids

508
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 5: that look like them and have space for that. Their

509
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 5: books should look like them, their toys should look like

510
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 5: them at every turn, the cartoons they might be exposed

511
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 5: to should look like them at every turn. Make sure

512
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 5: that they are represented in a variety of ways so

513
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 5: that you're not having to explain to them why the

514
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 5: good dollars white and the bad dollars black. Right, we

515
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 5: don't want to replicate that in what we do. So

516
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 5: those are some of the ways that we think about children,

517
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 5: and of course developmentally appropriate levels, so you don't say

518
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 5: the same thing you do to you say to a

519
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 5: five year old that you do to a ten year

520
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 5: old or a fifteen year old. But giving them that

521
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 5: information really early on another piece, I will go to

522
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 5: the school and let them know what you expect, how

523
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 5: you expect your child to be treated, what you expect

524
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 5: the curriculum to be like, what kind of representation you

525
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 5: need on the faculty and in the administrators, be at

526
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 5: school board meetings advocating because it's such a large portion

527
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 5: of their day for most kids, that you being in

528
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 5: there and saying this is what I need so that

529
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 5: I know my child as well. Here is important.

530
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: That is so important because the narratives that they learn,

531
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: that's the foundational years, the formative years, and so the

532
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: narrative that they receive in school, whether that's direct or indirect,

533
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: has a strong impact on who they turn out to

534
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: be as adults. Yes, wow, you know, I just think

535
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: about like that narrative and how important it is. Like

536
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: one of my nieces was telling me about what she

537
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: learned about what their school was teaching about Abraham Lincoln.

538
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 4: Where did they learn.

539
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: And when she shared, I think the sentence was that,

540
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: you know, Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves, And before she

541
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: could say any more, I was like, sorry, let's back

542
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: up and let's pull out some history. Let's like google

543
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: some history, you know, because Google is what y'all relate to.

544
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: So let's google and let's really learn about who Abraham

545
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: Lincoln was, why we had the Civil War in the

546
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: first place, and what really happened with the Emancipation Proclamation, like,

547
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: let me make sure that you are really hearing because

548
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: clearly your teachers aren't teaching that.

549
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 4: Yes, and it's a hot mess, it really is.

550
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 5: It shouldn't have taken for me to get to I

551
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 5: don't know fifteen when I watched Malcolm X for the

552
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 5: first time, or I don't know thirteen when I watched Roots,

553
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 5: or certainly eighteen when I went to Spelman for me

554
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 5: to learn about black history in a more nuanced way.

555
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 4: That shouldn't have even been the case, but it was.

556
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 2: Yep, And it's all a part of the strategy, right.

557
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 2: I know that I've personally been taking a I guess

558
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: you would say some type of fast from certain social

559
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 2: media posts, and one in particular that has really been

560
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: difficult for me to look into more a is the

561
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: Breonna Taylor pace. And so I just wanted to see

562
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 2: doctor Kenneth Nicole if you had any feedback about their

563
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 2: recent updates around I know it's been Yeah, it's a lot,

564
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 2: and I do plan to look into it because we're

565
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: going to do an episode where we talk a bit

566
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: about some of the stuff there. But just any thoughts

567
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: that come up for you A ton because I'm in Kentucky,

568
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 2: so oh my gosh, it it just reverberated throughout the

569
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: Commonwealth for black women in particular, so much so that

570
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 2: that night, when the most minimal of possible indictments came

571
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 2: out on reckless endangerment charges for one of the three

572
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 2: officers for shooting into a wall of a neighbor and

573
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 2: not even into Breonna's body, I just felt winded and

574
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 2: exhausted and I only wanted to be around black women.

575
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 4: That was it.

576
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 5: I just I didn't want to be around anybody else.

577
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 5: And no shades of black men either, but I didn't

578
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 5: want to be around them either, and my husband was

579
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 5: already out working, and I was just like, you know what,

580
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 5: I'm going to create a healing space for black women.

581
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 5: So I just shared with a few of my groups

582
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 5: for women of color, and I was like, you know,

583
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 5: I'm going to hold a healing space for black women

584
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 5: from seven to eight, and there were about six seven

585
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 5: of us and we just got together and we processed

586
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 5: it and we cried and we laughed and we talked

587
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 5: about our struggles and our strengths and it was beautiful.

588
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 5: And that is I think the like in small pockets,

589
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 5: how people are finding resilience in coping. I know that

590
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,439
Speaker 5: the movement for Black lives, the chapter of Black Lives

591
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 5: Matter in Louisville is phenomenal, and so they have been

592
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 5: on the ground, sharing media sharing strategies, bailing people out,

593
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 5: paying for people's housing, starting grocery stores like. They have

594
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,720
Speaker 5: been active, but people would paint them as a movement

595
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 5: as criminals and thugs and like as rioters, as opposed

596
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 5: to people who have a really strategic and intentional focus

597
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 5: on black wellness and black liberation and comprehensive. So I

598
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 5: think that has been going on. People have been building

599
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 5: community movement making and it's reminded me of who I

600
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 5: really want to invest time in.

601
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: Yes, And you know, I think what you shared about

602
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,760
Speaker 1: how all of the work that they are doing, yes,

603
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,919
Speaker 1: and how little of that gets out there.

604
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 5: You feel me like, so little press to such groundbreaking

605
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 5: important public health work. It is really public health strategy

606
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 5: that they are doing, and people overlook it because they

607
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 5: see riot, that's all they want to see.

608
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 4: Wow.

609
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 1: But I think that goes back again to that narrative

610
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 1: of anti blackness, right that to see us doing well,

611
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 1: to see us still helping one another, despite the negative

612
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: images that are out there. You know, I think that

613
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:41,919
Speaker 1: just continues to speak to that need to deny our humanity,

614
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 1: that need to maintain whiteness and white privilege and white supremacy.

615
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 5: And I don't even use the language white supremacy anymore

616
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 5: because I think it's psychologically inaccurate. I share that on

617
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 5: my social media that I really feel like it's a

618
00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 5: white inferiority complex because you don't need to dehumanize people

619
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 5: if you feel whole and well. That love behavior of

620
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 5: people who feel incompetent and inadequate and impotent. It's like,

621
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 5: I'm not going to endorse or even pretend like that's

622
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 5: what superiority looks like.

623
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 4: It isn't.

624
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 5: You don't create all of these systems of oppression if

625
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 5: you truly are a well person.

626
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:18,240
Speaker 4: You just don't.

627
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 5: And so the continuation of them and maintenance of them,

628
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 5: that's for people who are ill.

629
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely Wow, I would agree with that percent. And you

630
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 2: spoke a little bit about liberation, and we're going to

631
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 2: shift up the energy of the interview just a bit,

632
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 2: but I want to ask first, how can black women

633
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 2: tap into their sensual selves in the midst of a

634
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 2: pandemic we have so much going on racial level, health, environmental.

635
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 2: We're in the Bay Area and we've had fires.

636
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 4: Are even out there.

637
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,919
Speaker 2: I mean today is better. I have an air purified now,

638
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 2: But I mean every it's like every part of the

639
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: world is just experiencing these environmental issues as well. And

640
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: it's like, we know that you study, you know, sex

641
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,479
Speaker 2: and social justice and leadership. So I'm like, okay, let's

642
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: dive into that a little bit best.

643
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, how do those two come together?

644
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 5: They always come together for me because I think there

645
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 5: are some racial and cultural components to sexual identity and

646
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 5: sexual pleasure that always show up in my research. And

647
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 5: so when I study sex, typically studying Black sexuality, but

648
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 5: even when I'm not, I'm thinking about the Black ways

649
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 5: of engaging sensual sensuality. So let's let's think about one

650
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 5: in particular, the way we oil our bodies. That ain't everybody,

651
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 5: that's us, you know what I mean.

652
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 4: But that's a sensual act. It's a sential thing.

653
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 5: Like it ain't even lotion, it's oil, you know. So

654
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 5: it's like, that is a sential act. Where how much

655
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 5: time do you actually take for yourself in the shower?

656
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 5: Is it purposeful and obligatory? Like I'm just cleaning myself

657
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 5: or is it I'm caressing this beautiful body that I

658
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 5: get to behold, this black body that is worthy and

659
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 5: worthy of pleasure, worthy of arousal and desire. Like so

660
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 5: the way you wash yourself is a sensual moment. And

661
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 5: then the way you oil yourself and like taking your

662
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 5: time and getting every nooking cranny with your coconut oil

663
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 5: or your shade butter, the way you oil your scalp.

664
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 5: I think about sensual moments, not sexual, but sensual and

665
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 5: intimate moments in Black families where somebody is scratching your

666
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 5: dandriff and greasing your scalp, that is sensual. That's intimate

667
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 5: behavior with a person because we don't let everybody in

668
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 5: our hair. It's so like you can't. And so those

669
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 5: are some ways to be sensual. I believe in listening

670
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 5: to the type of music that brings out your sensual

671
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 5: side because I think sensual energy is a really creative energy.

672
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 5: So I have like a playlist called Sensations that I

673
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 5: always listen to. Get a little Janet on there, get

674
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,399
Speaker 5: a little tank on their little Jamie Fix, little flow

675
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 5: a tree and listening to that. Yes, and it just

676
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,479
Speaker 5: opens you up. But what you taste, like the type

677
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 5: of foods you eat. Do you take your time and

678
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 5: eat or do you rush just trying to get from

679
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 5: your meal to the next work thing you have to do.

680
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 5: You know, I'm drinking a glass of red wine right

681
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 5: now and so just enjoying it, drinking it slowly as

682
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 5: opposed to guzzling it down. All of those things, slowing down,

683
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 5: being compassionate and tender and patient with yourself. Black women

684
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,959
Speaker 5: deserve and need that, and that's how we tap into

685
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 5: our sensual selves. Walk slower, move your hips, you know,

686
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 5: like all the things that we were for some of

687
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 5: us told were fast, be fast, shoot, just switch your hips.

688
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 4: Those things better.

689
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 5: Yes, make love to yourself, make love to your partner,

690
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,240
Speaker 5: like all of those pieces are very healing.

691
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,439
Speaker 2: I love that and I love the way you spoke

692
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 2: about it because I think sometimes there's a lot of

693
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 2: shame and I'm in a place in my journey. I think,

694
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 2: like many of us grew up where oh that's fast,

695
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 2: or sex is like the secret thing, and send you

696
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 2: how it is this thing that shouldn't be discussed around,

697
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 2: embracing it more, and I think that is a beautiful thing.

698
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 2: And it really does usher us into this next phase

699
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 2: of the interview. So doctor kand okay, all right. So

700
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 2: because we recognize, appreciate, and celebrate the multifaceted woman, and

701
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 2: we believe that it's okay to be classy and ratchett okay,

702
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 2: and you can still be elegant and dance to strip

703
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,399
Speaker 2: club music, we want to invite you to the oh

704
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 2: you clatch it segment? So do you take on?

705
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 3: Let's do it.

706
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 4: This is a lifestyle for me, so let's go.

707
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, well then we're going to jump right

708
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 1: in twerk or two steps. Listen.

709
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 4: First of all, work, I love it.

710
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 2: And that's on period. Okay, Yes, it used.

711
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:09,879
Speaker 5: To be able to do it in a split. I'm

712
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 5: not at that level in life anymore.

713
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 2: But that's what I'm talking about. I'm trying to. Okay,

714
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 2: I'm trying to.

715
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 4: That was in my twenties. It's probably not going back.

716
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 2: Next question for you, what is your guilty pleasure?

717
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 5: I love delicious things, and so we have a grocery

718
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 5: store called crow Grow here and they have these brown

719
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 5: butter salted caramel cookies that and some ice cream.

720
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 4: Just oh that does it for me?

721
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 2: Wait, what kind of ice cream.

722
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 5: There's this ice cream shop out here called Saves, and

723
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 5: they have a spicy banana Oh yes, right, it's just

724
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 5: so unique. It's got a little tigh ende in it,

725
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 5: but it's a banana ice cream and it just hits that.

726
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 2: Is it be a time we need exciting?

727
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 4: Like oh.

728
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 3: Amazing?

729
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I don't even know how to come

730
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: back from that because I just want food. But what

731
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: song will get you to the dance floor? So that

732
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: maybe you might attempt that in a split?

733
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 5: Okay, So it depends. What song will get me to

734
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:32,959
Speaker 5: the dance floor is knuck? If you book, I will

735
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 5: not work to.

736
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 4: If you book.

737
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 5: But what will get me to potentially do like a

738
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 5: a little split situation is like hydraulics, like what is

739
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 5: it called scar?

740
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 4: So? Oh uncle Luke? Yes?

741
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 6: Oh okay, okay. I feel like we need to have

742
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 6: a party, Like I'm just like ready for like the party,

743
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,280
Speaker 6: like with the cookies and ice cream and the wine

744
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 6: and the music.

745
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,320
Speaker 4: And that would be a healing event, Yes they would.

746
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 2: Okay, Now we got to work on some ideas for

747
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 2: how to make that happen especially yes, all right, let's

748
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,760
Speaker 2: see our next question, Doctor Candice to cole Is, how

749
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 2: do you want to be remembered.

750
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 5: I want to be remembered as someone who made people

751
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 5: remember their inherent worthiness and value in the world, that

752
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 5: nothing they said or did would take or strip that away,

753
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 5: That they came into this world worthy and they will

754
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 5: leave this world worthy, and that that reminder inspires them

755
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 5: to do something beautiful with it.

756
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 2: Beautiful. I love it.

757
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, what would your stripper name be?

758
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 4: Candy c A N D. I maybe Candy Cane.

759
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, this is not the first time doctor Kandis

760
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 2: had started this name.

761
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 5: Yes, listen, that was my rap name when I want

762
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 5: to be a rapper.

763
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 3: Okay, you got some bars for us?

764
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 4: You know, I had some bars.

765
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 5: I no longer have bars, but I always tell people

766
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 5: the story about how I wanted to be a rapper

767
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 5: when I was growing up. And then I went to

768
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 5: a concert and in Atlanta. It was the Cash Money

769
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 5: and Roughriders Concert of ninety nine, and they.

770
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 4: Were like, who want to get a record deal?

771
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 5: And I was like I do. My homegirls were like, no, girl,

772
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 5: don't do it.

773
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 4: I was like, yes, I'm doing it.

774
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 5: So I got on stage and I started to spit

775
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 5: my line and then all I hear was the machine

776
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 5: gun soundtrack blowing my wrap career off the stage. And

777
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 5: so you know, that's when my husband was like, we

778
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 5: died laughing, and he was like, that's when doctor Cannith

779
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 5: Nicole was born.

780
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. I love this story.

781
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 2: I love that so epic, that ethic. Are you happy

782
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 2: they didn't have YouTube and all that stuff back then?

783
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 2: Or I was just told that's right.

784
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 4: I came back to my seat. They were like you

785
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 4: all right, girl. I was like, yeah, girl, I had

786
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 4: a try.

787
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 2: That's right. She about it. I love it. Well. That

788
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 2: really wraps up our ou clatches segment. This was so fun,

789
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 2: Doctor Candace. We all had long days and I know

790
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 2: that today was a rough day for me personally, and

791
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:26,479
Speaker 2: this just.

792
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 4: Gave me so much joy.

793
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 2: I cannot wait through this interview. Yes, that's what we

794
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 2: love to hear. I want to let all of our

795
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 2: listeners know where they can find you on social media,

796
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 2: where they can connect with you. So feel free to

797
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 2: share your handles and all that good stuff.

798
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 5: Okay, sure, you can find me at doctor Candace Nicole

799
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 5: on Instagram and Facebook, and you can find my website

800
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 5: doctor Candacenicole dot com and also Center for Healing Racial

801
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 5: Trauma dot com if you're looking for consultation on anti racism,

802
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 5: or if you're in Kentucky and you're looking for therapy.

803
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 4: Services, we provide that. Amazing.

804
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you, thank you so much.

805
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 5: Thank you for having me. This has been great and

806
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 5: very uplifting.

807
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 3: Yes, this is exactly what we needed.

808
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 2: We had our own little healing party. Thank you for

809
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 2: all the work that you do for our community. We

810
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 2: will definitely be in touch and thank you.

811
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 4: Thank you.

812
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: Hey, lady, it's doctor Dom here from the Herspace podcast.

813
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: Do you have a burning question you're dying to get

814
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: feedback on? Do you want an unbiased perspective on a

815
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: situation you're facing. If so, visit herspacepodcast dot com and

816
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 1: click ask doctor Dom under the start here option. Every Tuesday,

817
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 1: I'll choose a few questions and answer them at random.

818
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 2: Today's episode is sure to provide you with motivation, inspiration,

819
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 2: or even a fresh perspective. If you have any AHA moments,

820
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 2: or if you feel comforted throughout that episode, lady, please

821
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 2: leave us a review and tell us what we're doing

822
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 2: right so we can stay on track. Also, we release

823
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 2: episodes every Friday. So be sure to subscribe on iTunes

824
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 2: and visit herspacepodcast dot com and enter your email address

825
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 2: to get updates about our live events and all the

826
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 2: new beginnings that we have for this year.

827
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us today in her Space. Please note

828
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: that our show may contain conversations about self help, advice,

829
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: self empowerment, and mental health, but it is by no

830
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: means meant to be a substitute for an ongoing formal

831
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: relationship with a trained mental health provider. If you are

832
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 1: someone you know is in need of mental health care,

833
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: please visit the Therapy for Black Girls directory Psychology today

834
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: or contact your insurance provider.

835
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 2: If you liked what you heard and want to keep

836
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 2: the conversation going, connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and

837
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 2: Twitter at her space podcast, or check out our website

838
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 2: at her spacepodcast dot com. And before we meet again,

839
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 2: repeat after me. Although my plans may change, I will

840
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 2: stay committed to my purpose.

841
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 3: We'll see you next week, lady,