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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites, the podcast part of the Volume

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Speaker 1: Podcast Network. I'm Chad Millman of the Action Network. Simon

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Speaker 1: is still enjoying time with his family in Jollie, Old England,

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Speaker 1: but we miss him so much. We have to talk

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Speaker 1: about one of the biggest events that comes out of

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Speaker 1: England and has been imported to New York. It has

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Speaker 1: taking place Friday and Saturday. Many people know it as

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Speaker 1: sports biggest party. What is that party, you ask, It's

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Speaker 1: the best three sixty five US darts masters at the

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Speaker 1: theater in Madison Square Garden. The world's eight greatest darts

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Speaker 1: players squaring off against eight of North America's best. It's

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Speaker 1: an incredible party. It's incredible popular betting event internationally and

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Speaker 1: becoming more popular here in the US. Joining us to

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Speaker 1: discuss all things professional darts all the way from his

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Speaker 1: kitchen in Denmark, our better collective colleague and darts betting

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Speaker 1: expert Ben Jamine Leander Brother.

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Speaker 2: Hi Jet, Thank you so much for having me listen.

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Speaker 1: Darts has a really sort of special place in the

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Speaker 1: lore of Action Network because when we first launched, darts

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Speaker 1: started to be televised here in the United States on

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Speaker 1: diz own I think, and a lot of people went

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Speaker 1: and it was a huge betting event that got us

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Speaker 1: all catalyzed, and we're having just an incredible time together.

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Speaker 1: So we've been following like the joy of betting on

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Speaker 1: darts and the incredible enthusiasm and the spirit comes from

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Speaker 1: the events and the attitude and the charisma of the

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Speaker 1: the players. Like for those who were totally unfamiliar, why

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Speaker 1: is it called sports biggest party?

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Speaker 2: I would say for people not knowing that darts have

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Speaker 2: evolved from the traditional pop sport to the greatest party

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Speaker 2: in the world, I would say that we have festival

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Speaker 2: meets carnival meets sports match. Very rare that you can

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Speaker 2: combine all three things. I mean, we have all been

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Speaker 2: to a soccer match, an American football match, an icecckeer match,

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Speaker 2: whatever match where you have the sport in the center

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Speaker 2: of everything. With darts you have the atmosphere as the

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Speaker 2: center of everything. And I remember actually watching the first

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Speaker 2: edition of the US Darts Masters that was played at

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Speaker 2: the Tropic can Casino in Las Vegas. People should go

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Speaker 2: watch it. It's on YouTube.

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Speaker 3: Hello again from Professional Dotsampionship, where once again we've had

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Speaker 3: an evening of high drama as this tournament proceeds towards

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Speaker 3: its climax one hundred.

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Speaker 2: And then compared to last year's edition, it is two

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Speaker 2: different worlds.

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Speaker 3: Wow, the championship final, Michael fuckerwin, my daughter one man

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Speaker 3: missus does the other man get I've never seen.

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Speaker 2: The like Come on spiper, Yes, Stubble twelve the most amazing.

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Speaker 3: Saying I can't steer my step, my crowd going perssuch,

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Speaker 3: but that's simply the best looking of dance.

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Speaker 2: So darts is being the the biggest party of sports

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Speaker 2: due to the huge atmosphere.

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Speaker 1: What do you think happened? What changed? By twenty eighteen

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Speaker 1: when we were starting to cover it at action, people

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Speaker 1: were already going nuts. Like the attitude, the atmosphere. It

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Speaker 1: was really starting to blow up. What do you think

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Speaker 1: facilitated the change in sort of culture and enthusiasm.

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Speaker 2: Professional Darts Cooperation is called the PDC, like the FIFA

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Speaker 2: of soccer or the NHL of hockey, has played a

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Speaker 2: huge role in professionalizing the sports, along with broadcasters like

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Speaker 2: Sky Sports and ITV making a very very good broadcasting

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Speaker 2: product of the sports. Because it is universal that when

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Speaker 2: you watch the dart scheme, you want the best angles.

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Speaker 2: I mean, nobody can watch the dogboards from places of

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Speaker 2: the crowd, but with the huge monitors and on TV

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Speaker 2: many many different camera angles showing exactly where the players

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Speaker 2: are throwing the darts. That has been a huge key

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Speaker 2: in the darts rise during the last yeah, like you said,

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Speaker 2: the last seven or eight years. The PDC has of

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Speaker 2: course also provided a huge price fund, which is also

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Speaker 2: this year historical in New York. We have one hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand pounds in the price pool against sixty even last year.

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Speaker 2: So bigger prize pool and the PDC making a very

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Speaker 2: very nice product. Tickets are still what I would say,

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Speaker 2: not cheap, but at least affordable, where we see in

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Speaker 2: other sports, both your sports in the US and also

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Speaker 2: the European sports that that ticket prices are simply exploding

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Speaker 2: through the roof. So in general, more people are getting

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Speaker 2: their eyes open for darts being very very accessible. You

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Speaker 2: need to be a huge fan. You need to know

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Speaker 2: who Michael fan Girlin or Matt Campbell or whoever is.

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Speaker 2: So darts is extremely accessible for both young and old.

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Speaker 1: So explaining you just mentioned a couple of guys, who

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Speaker 1: are the people that the players that people need to

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Speaker 1: know as they think about betting for the weekend, and

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Speaker 1: we're quite frankly in the US there's not a ton

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Speaker 1: of stuff to bet on as we're heading into, you know,

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Speaker 1: out of the basketball season. Who are the people? Why

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Speaker 1: are they so charismatic? What makes them so popular?

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Speaker 2: I think it's impossible not to mention teenage sensation and

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Speaker 2: upcoming defending world champion and upcoming many many, many, many

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Speaker 2: many times world champion. He is the picture on the

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Speaker 2: face of darts right now, sixteen years old when he

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Speaker 2: participated at his first World dous Championship and World champion

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Speaker 2: at the age of seventeen, one of.

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Speaker 3: The greatest sets of darts potentially we have ever seen.

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Speaker 3: Of the World Championship. He's gone through the gills and

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Speaker 3: this is for the match, say for the loop, a

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Speaker 3: new play climb. You cannot contain this Land's talent and

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Speaker 3: fatty and brute strength as adults line.

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Speaker 2: He's participating of course in New York. Did it as

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Speaker 2: well last year, but lost to Growing Price also a

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Speaker 2: big name to to keep an eye on, due to

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Speaker 2: both due to his skills on the stage, but also

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Speaker 2: because Price is the face of what darts can also be.

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Speaker 2: A former rugby professional in his home country Wales, decided

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Speaker 2: to give dots ago ten years ago and got crowned

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Speaker 2: world champion, so completely shifted sports, like another Michael Jordan

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Speaker 2: from from basketball to baseball, maybe even more successful. We

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Speaker 2: have tons of faces. Luke Humphrey, the world number one,

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Speaker 2: also a very very good guy, a guy everyone likes

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Speaker 2: on the tour where Little and Price are dividing opinions,

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Speaker 2: maybe a little more then I would say for the Americans,

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Speaker 2: we have a very special case with Jules van Dungen,

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Speaker 2: born in the Netherlands but is representing the US. He

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Speaker 2: is at the moment suffering from dar titis. Please don't laugh.

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Speaker 2: It's a real thing where you are struggling with the

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Speaker 2: dart in your hand to release it at a proper time.

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Speaker 2: And Jules has suffered from this for over a year now.

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Speaker 2: Was a really really is still a really really good player,

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Speaker 2: but has suffered so much from this dark titis thing

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Speaker 2: that he actually spent hours and hours and weeks and

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Speaker 2: months changing his throat from right to left handed. Imagine

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Speaker 2: doing that in any sports. Imagine Tom Brady suddenly saying

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Speaker 2: I can release the ball when throwing for my wide

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Speaker 2: receiver so now I'll use my left hand. Jules van

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Speaker 2: Dagen actually did that. He is in the middle of

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Speaker 2: a process and he's still playing at a much lower

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Speaker 2: level than before, but he will participate in New York.

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Speaker 2: And I think everyone in the Doors universe is cheering

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Speaker 2: for Jewels to finally have a good experience on the

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Speaker 2: stage because he has really suffered for the last year

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Speaker 2: or even one and a half. So he is definitely

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Speaker 2: the guy that everyone in the American art world will

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Speaker 2: cheer four of this this week.

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Speaker 1: So basically, Jewles got the yips, like he just couldn't

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Speaker 1: do it anymore.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's you wouldn't see it in any other sports.

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Speaker 2: I mean, looking at any NBA player not being able

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Speaker 2: to release the ball or any soccer player, you wouldn't

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Speaker 2: see MESSI say, I can shoot, I can't shoot. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's suffering from from the yeah the dartisis, which is

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Speaker 2: of course a physical condition, but also this mental condition

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Speaker 2: where you're just you can't make it right.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's heartbreaking, dude. I feel terrible for this guy.

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Speaker 1: How did it even, like, how did it start to

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Speaker 1: become known? And then like what was his process for

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Speaker 1: trying to change it, like I've tried to throw darts

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Speaker 1: left handed. You know, darts becomes one of those things

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Speaker 1: where everyone feels like they know how to do it

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Speaker 1: because it's accessible at every bar and pub throughout the world.

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Speaker 1: It's really hard to be that coordinated to be able

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Speaker 1: to change hands.

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Speaker 2: It is an exceptional case. I mean he he suffered

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Speaker 2: from from some kind of wrist condition in the start

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Speaker 2: and then he it somehow got worse. So it is

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Speaker 2: the mixed between an injury where you keep throwing in

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Speaker 2: the wrong way and suddenly you have brist and your

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Speaker 2: underarm becomes a great issue, combined with your head saying

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Speaker 2: I can't throw like this. I need to kind of

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Speaker 2: do something that I'm not used to. So that's simply

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Speaker 2: suffering from from dartisis and many darts players have been

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Speaker 2: through it. Even Nathan Aspinall, who will also participate this

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Speaker 2: or was supposed to participate this year but is being

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Speaker 2: replaced by Australian Damon Hatz, has suffered from it on

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Speaker 2: stage during this year's Premier League, but has come back

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Speaker 2: from it. Actually that there were many many good matches,

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Speaker 2: but in Jule's case, it's it's been going on for

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Speaker 2: over a year now and he is luckily recovering from it.

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Speaker 2: But it's a very long process.

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Speaker 1: You know this. Uh, this year's competition is European versus

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Speaker 1: North America. Are Europeans known as being better players historically

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Speaker 1: than the Americans?

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Speaker 2: Yes, definitely. Darts has been evolving very slowly on every

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Speaker 2: other continent than Europe. We've seen still South America. I

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Speaker 2: mean in almost every other sport like soccer, basketball, Okay,

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Speaker 2: maybe not hockey, but but almost every other sport you

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Speaker 2: would have South America, Africa, Asia even having at least

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Speaker 2: one dominant player. It's been a very very slow involvement

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Speaker 2: in these in these continents because the professional darts corporation

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Speaker 2: have not succeeded bringing the game to other continents than Europe,

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Speaker 2: where everything has been focused on European tour, the World

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Speaker 2: As Championships being played in London every year, and now

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Speaker 2: discussions have come to do we need to put the

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Speaker 2: World Championships another place then London? Could it be played

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Speaker 2: outside Europe? Even because the sport is on the rise

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Speaker 2: and so many in so many different continents. Asia has

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Speaker 2: had a huge success of players coming in. We've seen

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Speaker 2: it at the World Cup of Darts that was held

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Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago, where you play in teams

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Speaker 2: as in pairs of two. Jules van Dunnan competed for

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Speaker 2: the USA along with Daniel Loubi who will also be

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Speaker 2: playing this week in Canada, had Jim Long and Matt

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Speaker 2: Campbell who will also participate in New York this week.

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Speaker 2: But traditionally the Americans have had a tough time when

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Speaker 2: playing the US Darts Masters. In twenty twenty three, Canadian

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Speaker 2: Jeff Smith actually went all the way to the final.

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Speaker 2: He beat Lucumphries, the current number one. He had other

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Speaker 2: very good matches against Peter Wright with the mohawk, very

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Speaker 2: very good player as well, and then he beat Michael

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Speaker 2: Smith also but lost eventually in the final eight nil

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Speaker 2: to Michael van Gowen, a legend of the sports. But

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Speaker 2: he is the only player that have processed after round two.

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Speaker 2: We have the eight American players joining in in the

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Speaker 2: first round, and then you have the quarter finals, round two,

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Speaker 2: the semifinals, round three, and then the final. And Jeff

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Speaker 2: Smith is the only North American who has processed from

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Speaker 2: round two.

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Speaker 1: All right, so you sort of got into the format

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Speaker 1: a little bit. This is a betting show. Darts came

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Speaker 1: on the scene largely because I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: people started betting on it. Like with a lot of sports,

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Speaker 1: sort of the popularity trails behind the betting influence, and

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Speaker 1: darts certainly falls into that category. So how do you

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Speaker 1: bet on darts? What's like? What's a comparison that people

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Speaker 1: who haven't done it before could hold on to so

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Speaker 1: they can understand it litle bit better.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that tennis is a bad comparition, because

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Speaker 2: in tennis you have two players who are shifting between serving.

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Speaker 2: You're also serving in darts, where one player of course

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Speaker 2: has to throw before the matches. The players gather in

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Speaker 2: front of the board and then you throw closest to

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Speaker 2: the bullseye, and the player closest to bullseye is starting

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Speaker 2: the match, which is of course a big advantage. Since

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Speaker 2: we are playing first to six legs. Both players starts

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Speaker 2: on five and one points and will then play down

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Speaker 2: eventually to zero points, and if the game is tied

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Speaker 2: at five to five, you play the ultimate round of

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Speaker 2: the match. Of course, then the player who won the

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Speaker 2: ballsye before the match will throw in the deciding leg,

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Speaker 2: which is a huge advantage, and just like an in tennis, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're serving in darts, one can say. I mean a

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Speaker 2: tennis you have your serve where one player can be

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Speaker 2: bad at the at playing or or hitting, but having

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Speaker 2: a good serve it's a little bit different, difficult in darts,

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Speaker 2: but you have the ability of scoring of course, pounding

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Speaker 2: the triple twenty area where you get the most points.

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Speaker 2: But in the darts you're only winning if you can

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Speaker 2: finish on a double the outer circle of the board.

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Speaker 2: And some players having a reallytort time. I've seen top

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Speaker 2: professional players just a month ago having to use forty

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Speaker 2: one darts to finish one round. Chris Toby and an

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Speaker 2: opponent needed forty one darts to finish one route. You

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Speaker 2: and me could do around in forty one throws, chat,

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Speaker 2: I definitely wouldn't doubt.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing is like, sometimes I feel like

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Speaker 1: you can get a double on the outer ring by accident.

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Speaker 1: And these are the best dart throwers in the world

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Speaker 1: who aren't able to end it. Is it because everything

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Speaker 1: gets into their head, like what happens when it's time

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Speaker 1: to close that they can't get to that final throw.

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Speaker 2: It's in their head. And then I mentioned the twenty

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Speaker 2: seventeen edition in trobik Kaanna, where the crowd was completely silent.

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Speaker 2: That's not the case in these days. The crowd is

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Speaker 2: getting loud and some crowds are even't getting hostile. In

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Speaker 2: the World Cup of Darts two weeks ago we had

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Speaker 2: Germany on home soil. They beat England with Luke Litter

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Speaker 2: and Louke Comfrey's two of the three best players in

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Speaker 2: the world. They beat them easily due to the crowd

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Speaker 2: whistling and booing every time the Englishman was throwing. And

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Speaker 2: I mean, we can discuss is that good sporting ethics

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Speaker 2: or what it is. But I mean, even if the

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Speaker 2: Madison Square Garden crowd will not get hostile, it can

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Speaker 2: still get into the heads of players when you can't

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Speaker 2: just get that double done and then you miss and

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Speaker 2: you miss more, and that's when it both starts and

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Speaker 2: betting becomes tough. The European players are playing later this

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Speaker 2: season then normally. Normally the US Dots Master has been

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Speaker 2: in the first week of June, the latest of editions.

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Speaker 2: Now it's in the end of June, so it is

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Speaker 2: colliding with some players holidays. All of these players have family,

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Speaker 2: so that might influence on European players going to America

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Speaker 2: dealing with jedlag. We've seen it many times. There's always

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Speaker 2: one or two of the European players who are really struggling,

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Speaker 2: and you don't know until you see them on stage

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Speaker 2: and imagine something is wrong here. His starts are flying low,

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Speaker 2: his starts are flying high. He's not mentally strong in

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Speaker 2: this game, and we won't know until we see the

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Speaker 2: players on stage. But one of the cases I'm quite

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Speaker 2: sure about is that we have Michael van Gerwin, the

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Speaker 2: Dutch giant who has won many world championships. He's been

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Speaker 2: going through a divorce, go splitting from his partner in

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Speaker 2: many many years and having even one month, so his

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Speaker 2: condition is very questionable. Has he trained, has he hasn't played?

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Speaker 2: And how is he dealing going to the USA without,

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Speaker 2: of course his family and with all these thoughts going

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Speaker 2: through his head. So that is what you have to

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Speaker 2: take into account when betting on the darts.

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Speaker 1: Dude, we got divorce, we got dartitis, we got heckling,

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Speaker 1: we got jet lag, we got rivalries, we got teenage

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Speaker 1: up in comers, we got people who want to knock

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Speaker 1: that kid down to side like darts has more drama

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Speaker 1: than the Gilded Age. It is just a fantastic.

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Speaker 2: You're not entertained.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned all these guys like darts isn't something, and

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Speaker 1: you mentioned the prize pool one hundred thousand pounds? What

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Speaker 1: do these guys do for a living? Like these aren't

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Speaker 1: professional athletes? What do they do? How are they practicing?

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Speaker 2: Money? And darts have gone so big that all of

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Speaker 2: the players competing on this World Series Tour that the

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Speaker 2: US Darts Masters is are completely professional, winning millions of

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Speaker 2: dollars and also having sponsorships that will easily top a

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Speaker 2: lot of professional players, not from the highest of clubs

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Speaker 2: or athletes, but at least clothes. I mean, winning the

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Speaker 2: World Championships is guaranteeing you five hundred thousand pounds. Equally,

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Speaker 2: I would say, what's seven hundred thousand dollars? And I

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Speaker 2: would say that probably top fifty and top or top

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Speaker 2: sixty on the Professional Dots Corporation tour can make a

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Speaker 2: living of darts. Of course, big difference from Luke Littler

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Speaker 2: at the top earning many, many, many thousands a year

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Speaker 2: and then number sixty four, who could maybe do with

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Speaker 2: a small part time job. But the hard thing for

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Speaker 2: darts players is that the top guys are guaranteed a

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Speaker 2: place in the most tournaments, where the qualifiers are not

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Speaker 2: getting any part of the prize pool on this they

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Speaker 2: win a match, making it very very hard. I mean,

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Speaker 2: in tennis, you would see even the loser of the

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Speaker 2: first round in US Open receiving I guess rather big

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Speaker 2: payment just for showing up, maybe even losing three times

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Speaker 2: six zero. In darts, there's been criticism of recent tournament

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Speaker 2: structure changes where it favors the biggest players, but we

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Speaker 2: have fewer occasions where we see upcoming talents, sensational qualifiers

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Speaker 2: winning four matches in one day and participating in their

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Speaker 2: first Levis tournament. Ever, that's making life hard also for

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Speaker 2: potential American players. Where we are having this tournament, we're

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Speaker 2: having four North American players participating due to the fact

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Speaker 2: that they have won a tour card. Just like when

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Speaker 2: you are competing for tour carding golf, you have it

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Speaker 2: on the darts tour as well, giving you the permission

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Speaker 2: to attend these tournaments, but you have to win it

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Speaker 2: and that is very very tough to do. So in

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Speaker 2: this tournament, we have, like I said before, we have

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Speaker 2: Daniel Louby, we have duels, we have Jim Long, we

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Speaker 2: have Mett Campbell who are playing professionally on the PDC tour,

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Speaker 2: and then we have four qualifiers land Gates that we bunts,

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Speaker 2: and then Adam Savada and Jason Brandon who will be

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Speaker 2: playing as part timers. So there is a huge gap

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Speaker 2: between the big guys making the big money and then

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Speaker 2: some of the quolar fame players we will see during

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Speaker 2: Friday and Saturday.

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Speaker 1: So we've run through the lineup, We've run through the format,

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Speaker 1: We've run through the drama. Give us your best bets

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Speaker 1: for the tournament.

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Speaker 2: We have yet to see the draw, which will obviously

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Speaker 2: have great importance in terms of which players will be

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Speaker 2: placed in, what braggets, what opponents, and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: But like I mentioned before, I would very much like

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Speaker 2: to bet against Michael van Gowen if he gets any

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Speaker 2: other opponents, then an inexperienced Jason Brandon, if he gets

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Speaker 2: drawn against a young guy like Adam Savada, who is

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Speaker 2: getting very very big amounts of praise in the dark community,

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Speaker 2: can maybe be the next big thing in US arts.

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Speaker 2: I would definitely like to take Adam, maybe not to

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Speaker 2: win the match, but then to cover it by a

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Speaker 2: handicap the player first of first to three legs, and

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Speaker 2: if I can get something like Adam with three or

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Speaker 2: two legs front, I think that will be be a

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Speaker 2: great bet. And then of course Luke Litler, the teenage sensation.

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Speaker 2: He has this hunger of winning tournaments that he haven't

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Speaker 2: won yet, and he got defeated in his debut last

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Speaker 2: year in New York by Going Price, so I think

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Speaker 2: he will be very, very motivated. Also thinking about this

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Speaker 2: huge disaster that it was that him and partner Luke

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Speaker 2: Humphries was defeated in the first match at the World Cup.

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Speaker 2: So I think we'll see motivated Luke litter, motivated Luke Humphries,

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Speaker 2: and then Michael van Gowen with a big question mark

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Speaker 2: out of his form.

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Speaker 1: I feel fully breathed Benjamin Leander from his kitchen in

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Speaker 1: Denmark with the greatest darts breakdown we've had in the

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Speaker 1: history of The Favorite podcast. Thanks for coming on the show, brother.

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Speaker 1: We will return with our next episode of The Favorite

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Speaker 1: Tuesday and the Action Network YouTube page. Downloads from Spotify,

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Speaker 1: backs again until next time. Love You Action Network reminds

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