WEBVTT - Should we still circumcise babies? 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.160 Just a quick note before we get started. This is 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:05.160 a very complex and sensitive issue, touching on all sorts 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:09.840 of things, sex, religion, culture, bodily autonomy, parenting, etcetera, etcetera. 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:12.480 We unfortunately can include everything in this episode, so if 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:14.520 you want to read more, check out our newsletter. To 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:30.160 continue the conversation, I'm Anny, I'm Noah. This is Devin, 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:31.960 and this is no such thing the show where you 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.760 settle our dumb arguments and yours by actually doing the 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.880 research this week. To cut or not to cut, that's 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:39.360 the question. 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:49.160 I no, there's no no such thing. No touch, Thank touch, 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:56.000 thank touch, thank touch, thank. 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.960 All right, we're talking about circumcision. I actually remember a 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:09.400 while ago talking to my then girlfriend now wife. I 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:11.920 don't know why I brought this up. There is no 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:13.280 reason for me to bring this up, but I was like, 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:17.160 I think, you know, within the next fifty years, circumcision 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:19.880 is gonna be much less common in. 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:24.280 The United States. I was just like, just had a hunch. Yeah, 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:25.280 I don't know why I. 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:27.040 Brought this up over dinner, but I was like, I 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:28.520 just think that's the way things are gonna be do 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:31.320 Since then, it'll come up once in a while and 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:34.920 I'll hear from people who say, oh, yeah, like I 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:38.480 would never let my kid get circumcised. Yeah, and most 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:40.840 of these people, and I haven't asked or confirmed, but 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:42.840 most of them are circumcised. 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:45.440 Yeah, you haven't checked, Like I. 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:46.160 Said, I haven't check. 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:46.920 Yeah. 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:52.920 Yeah, sometimes yeah, sometimes it's at least intimated that that's 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:53.320 the case. 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.120 Yeah, this happened to me, but I wouldn't do it 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:56.600 to my child. 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.840 Yeah essentially, Yeah, is it not even so dramatical? But yeah, 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:04.240 but like we have to break the cycle, so so 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:07.240 you know, and then I'm wondering, Okay, well why is it? 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:09.200 You know, obviously you know I'm Jewish. 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:11.320 It's a common practice to do so. 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:15.760 Most people in the United States are not Jewish. 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:17.239 It's based on the numbers. 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.919 Yeah, a large amount of them. 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:21.279 Same with Islam. 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:25.400 Similar Yeah, and I do know that in Europe it's 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.880 much less common for babies, you know, where I think 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:31.560 it's a bit more restricted to kind of the cultural 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.760 you know, or religious reasons. I was curious, like how 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:38.119 that even happened, Like why in America did this take 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:41.639 hold so strongly? And then you know, you've heard ambiancely 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.760 over the years, like it you know, reduces HIV and AIDS, 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:49.160 which I've always wondered about, like how does that work? 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.160 Like what about this piece of skin or not would 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:53.320 impact that? 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:54.480 No idea? 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:59.400 And then arguments about how it affects pleasure. Yeah, then 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:01.440 you'll see in you know, Union Square here in New 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:04.000 York or else player you'll see people protests, you know, 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:09.760 activists intactivists talking to activists. Yeah, that's the time, and 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.320 you know saying, you know, saying like we need to 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:17.280 end this barbaric practice because you know it reduces your pleasure. 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.560 It's it's really brutal to the babies. And also my 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:24.680 sex life is ruined because of this that happens will Yeah, 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.480 And I've always been kind of like maybe I think 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:29.639 you're maybe it's like a grass is greener situation where 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:33.040 it's like it seems it seems Okay. I guess I'll 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:37.800 never know. But so these are things that have been 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.920 strolling around in my mind. So research from JOHNS Hopkins 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:44.480 says from twenty twelve to twenty twenty two, circumcision rates 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:47.520 among newborns have dropped from fifty four point one percent 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:51.600 in twenty twelve to forty nine point three percent in 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:53.480 twenty twenty two, so about five percent less. 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:55.720 Wow, And this is in the US. Yeah, in the US. 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.080 That kind of confirms that we're on you know, five 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.000 percent is big, but not huge. 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.920 But if that continues, you know, beizable. 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:04.560 Yeah. 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:08.280 And I feel like now with maybe the way things 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.960 are going culturally, I would imagine that rate would increase, 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:13.839 and I guess would be once it's less common where 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:17.080 it's like okay, less than half are done, if you're 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:19.200 on the fence, or you don't really feel strongly and 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:21.680 the doctor is not really pushing it on you or whatever, 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:24.160 it'd be easier to just be like, yeah, there's no like, 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:24.960 we don't need to do this. 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:27.440 Yeah, yeah, no longer will be to no arm. Yeah. 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:29.280 So you know, it's like if I'm having a baby 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.080 and I have no idea what's going on, and they say, well, 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.440 eighty percent of babies do this exactly, I'm just gonna 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.000 be like, it's a path of least resistance. Yeah, yeah, 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.560 just do it less to deal with, you know. 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.719 Yeah, that's what That's why I'm circumcised. I actually asked 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:45.120 my parents why why Yeah, because then it's not common 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:47.360 in East Africa where they come from. So they they 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:49.280 were just like, well the doctor told us that's what 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:52.120 most kids, that's what that's what you're supposed to do. Yeah, 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:54.520 and that's and that's what I did. And now half 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:56.400 I'm gone, sorry to hear that. 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:56.600 Man. 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:59.440 Yeah, at your leg Yeah, think of what you can 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:03.480 definitely memory Like at Ohio State when I was in college, 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:08.560 there were so many activist slash protests, but really, yeah 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:10.560 they would Yeah why. 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:12.320 School. 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.160 It's common for like people like the kind of an 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:17.920 anti abortion activist too. It's common to go to colleges 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:19.080 to like, I. 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.719 Guess, guess the implanting And I'm like, because you know, 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:24.200 you think of people at. 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:25.520 College is not having children. 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.640 But yeah, if they say something at that time, maybe 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:29.280 down the line. 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:31.680 Yeah, I remember being like, okay, these guys are crazy 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:34.800 because like, of course some of the behaviors in these 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.400 yeah protests, I was like, it's an eccentric thing to 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:41.760 focus on. Yeah, yeah, of course. And then but then 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:45.320 like now that I'm older, I'm like, well, yeah, I 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:47.680 guess why do we do that? Yeah, yeah, it's a 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:48.360 valid question. 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:50.240 And yeah it's like the people that I've spoken with 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:52.479 that are you know, of a similar milieu. 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:53.960 They aren't like. 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:58.960 Crazy people they're like normal people working, Yeah, have you know, 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.920 long term partners. They're not like, wow, I can't find 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:03.760 a girlfriend because of what happened to me, or I 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.520 can't enjoy sex or you know. It's like it's not 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:10.200 like these kind of hang ups that I imagine had, 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:13.400 you know, some of the more fringe characters were focused on. 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:17.200 It's like more of a normal thing, like it's just unnecessary. Yeah, 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:20.200 and yeah, it's painful for the babies. So yeah, I mean, 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:21.320 what what do you guys think? 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:23.640 And I remember the first phase of even learning that 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:26.840 people were upset about this me just being like they're 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:30.160 weird because you know everything, we all do this one thing, 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.280 and they're weird for for being upset about it. Now, 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.039 you know, as an adult, as someone with a more 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.960 open mind, I'm also like, yeah, I guess. I mean, 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:41.039 I don't know. If I had a son, I don't 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:44.440 think I would do it at this point. Now, you know, 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:46.599 I would say, like, when he gets old enough or whatever. 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:48.599 Here's what the doctors used to say, if you want. 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:49.920 To do that, you would support him. 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:51.719 Yeah, I wouldn't give a share. I mean, I'm hey, 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.960 I'm I'm circumcised. I have a great life. There's no Uh, 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:55.960 I'm not really. 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:59.080 Upset about I love you. 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.200 I love you son to my what you choose to 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:04.520 do it, it hasn't really. I can't imagine a scenario 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:06.720 where it has affected my life at all. 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.000 You can't imagine a life in which your sex life 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:10.360 is better. 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:12.680 Yeah, it's so good. 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:14.320 I guess everything can be better. 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:16.040 Yeah yeah, but you don't you're missing out. 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:18.480 No, No, sensitive enough. 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.120 But I don't know what it's like. That's how they 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.120 that's what they say. It's like sensitivity the nerves. It's 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:27.600 like maybe if I like walked around naked all the time. 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.640 So like I don't know, Like. 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:42.040 My non circumcision journey outing myself as uncut gem it 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.240 was a similar thing though, Like you talked about how 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.880 your parents were like I don't know, they just told me. 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:50.240 To do it because it was like I have me. 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:52.800 It was a few family members around that time where 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.480 I guess wherever hospital that we're going to, they were 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:56.680 just sort of like, well, you don't have. 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:58.720 To do it now, you can do it on line. 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:02.560 So for a while I thought I was going to 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:05.840 do it sometime in like middle school or college, and 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:08.200 then I just kept waiting and because I was like, well, 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:10.920 there's not really a great time to do this. Like 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:12.720 I was like, I'm not gonna have to miss school 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.760 because my parents were like the assumption was I would. Well, 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:17.560 they were like, we can leave it up to you, 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:19.400 but like you would probably get it done, but just 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:23.200 when you're older. And it was a short thing where yeah, 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:24.680 my mind. When I was younger, I was like, Okay, 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:26.360 I'm definitely gonna get this done. It's just a matter 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:26.760 of when. 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:28.520 Yeah, plotting, Yeah, I. 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:29.880 Was like all right, you know, I got to figure 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.880 out and then it just like never happened. And it 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:34.480 was a thing I would say when I was younger, 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.800 I was very self conscious about yeah, because yeah, I 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.280 think the norm, and especially in the US at the time, 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:42.480 was like everybody else's circumcised, Like why aren't you? 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:44.920 And then yeah, like. 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.800 As an adult, you know, like Manny said, it's like 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:50.959 has not affected my life and in any way. 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.000 You would have been a perfect test case if you 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:53.880 did go through it. 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:58.040 I know for the podcasts, I should get circumcised to see. 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:04.679 So after the break come on in doctor. 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:07.760 Oh Man. 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:10.679 So when I was younger, my parents like emphasized like 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.880 a you know because my dad was circumcised. But they 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:15.960 emphasized like you have to you know, pull back your 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:17.160 forestkin and whatever you clean it. 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:19.480 So just became a partner to the process. 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:19.719 Right. 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:21.240 It wasn't like it's like, you know, we were talking 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:22.920 about shower, you wash your legs. It was like, okay, 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:24.600 I'm gonna watch my so long. 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:25.240 Yeah you know. 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.840 A lot more folks, uh, let's see here. 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:34.040 But yeah, So it wasn't to me. 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.440 It wasn't like a sanitary thing like for me, it 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:38.559 was more of a concern. I was like, oh, when 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.920 I started having sex, is this gonna be weird? 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:41.400 Yeah? 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.120 Yeah, the social yes, yeah, that that to me seems 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.280 like the bigger issue. 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:50.160 Yes, yeah, So that was the thing that was top 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:53.240 of mind for me before I was having sex. 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.000 Keep it PG. But it has not been an issue. 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:58.560 No one has ever complained. 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:04.840 Was there ever, like, did anyone ever ask you or 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:09.240 like seem confused or like or did it Just because 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.880 I would imagine someone if that was happening, I don't 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:15.040 think I would say anything like encounter, Yeah, and I 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:17.240 was surprised, probably didn't. 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.520 I'd probably talk to my friend afterwards and be like, yeah, 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.240 what's up. With that, but just to keep us going, like, 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:29.559 I'm definitely interested in the bigger picture here the decreasing rates. 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.920 Is there actually a good reason to be circumcised or 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:37.000 is this more like antiquated practices from the past that 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:39.320 like we don't do that, we don't need to do anymore. 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:42.120 Yeah, because I've read and I've read pieces by men 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:44.360 who are circumcised to basically echo what we've been talking 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.160 about of like I wouldn't for my son. I was 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.640 reading a piece in Esquire and there was a guy, 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.280 I think in his sixties who had his son circumcised. 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:53.079 His son's now in his twenties, and he was like saying, 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:55.200 how I think he's Jewish. He just did it because 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:57.960 it was like what people did, and he was like, yeah, 0:10:58.000 --> 0:10:59.880 I really regret it, and I wish I hadn't done 0:10:59.880 --> 0:11:03.199 that to my son. It made me just think about 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:07.480 it because I was like, my default was always like definitely, yeah, 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:11.480 And I think we'll see how I feel having some research, 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:13.800 But right now I think if I had a son, 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.960 I would do it for all the reasons, not that 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.360 I'm so religious, but it's like I know there's something 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:22.920 to it where it's like why why change it now 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:24.520 if it's not causing harm to me? 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:26.880 I mean, so we'll see maybe my mind will be sw. 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:28.640 Yeah, it's funny. I feel like I don't know how 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:29.240 much about it. 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.000 I want to do some research on the the real 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.880 historical history of it, the especially the American history of it, 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.760 and then look into the health and sexual pleasure aspects 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.160 and what's behind the declining. 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:45.280 Rates that I am very curious about. Yeah, I guess 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:47.120 I'd be pretty pissed if I found out that it's 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:48.960 like so much better, three times better. 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:50.760 Yeah, but then it's like, well, you don't know what 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:51.959 you never had. Yeah, and it's good. 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:53.920 It's good to cut out some vices. 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:54.560 You know, it's like. 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:59.000 Crazy, you won't be able to hold a job. 0:11:59.040 --> 0:11:59.880 I don't know what it's like. 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:04.520 Yeah, it'd be crazy. It's better, you know, it's life 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:08.360 to live. Or maybe having the foreskin means you get 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.600 a fuller experience that you don't need as often. No, 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.480 maybe you'd be begging for a fix. Maybe we're we 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:18.280 need it more because oh yeah we don't we're not getting. 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:22.360 Yeah exactly, it's like a it's a tenth of what 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:23.120 you could be getting. 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.439 You do a ten times our brains are like, why. 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:30.400 Isn't this Let me try this again, let me running back. 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:32.800 So in this episode, we're going to hear from a 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.160 few different people. One and epidemiologists who study the health 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:40.880 impacts of circumcision, to a sociology professor who's researched the 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:45.360 anti circumcision movement, and three a leading member of the 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:49.440 so called intactivist movement. And just one quick note, This 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:51.720 is an issue, as you'll hear that people are extremely 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.160 passionate about. In this episode, we're not going to be 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.520 able to cover all of the complexity of the issues, 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.160 but we're doing our best to hear everyone out and 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:01.560 get their viewpoints of If you want to look into 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.720 this more, I'll be linked to research and other analyzes 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:07.480 in the newsletter to get more insight in decide how 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.040 you feel about it. We all have our own views here, 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.719 but we're not trying to force any particular agenda. With 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:15.440 that said, we've got a lot to get through, so 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:22.120 let's get into it after the break, all. 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:23.720 Right, fellas, I need you to help me with a 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:25.880 problem that I got. You know, usually we're the ones 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.120 helping other people with their problems, but I'm about to 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:30.079 go abroad and I'm going to watch met games. 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:31.960 Noah, how can I watch them? That's a tough one. 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:34.240 Maybe get a really large telescope. 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.199 I don't think that's the best way to do it. Manny, 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.080 Do you have any solutions on how I can watch 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:38.560 Mets games? 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:38.959 You broad? 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:42.480 I think I've got a slightly more practical solution for you, Devin. 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.240 If you use Nord VPN, you'll be able to change 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.440 the location of your laptop's IP address and watch the 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:52.520 content with no problem. What about my privacy online? 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:53.960 I'm worried someone's watching me. 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.280 First of all, no one is watching you, Noah. 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Our link will also give you four 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.960 extra months on the two year plan, and there's no 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.160 risk because nord has a thirty day money back guarantee. 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.480 The link is in the show notes. That's NordVPN dot 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:55.640 com slash nst. 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:09.760 Before we get further ahead, I want to talk through 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:12.480 the history of circumcision as a religious practice and a 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:14.920 medical one, how it became so common here in the US, 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.760 where it being so common makes the US. 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:19.520 An outlier compared to other nations. Gotcha. 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.160 And then we'll talk through kind of the perceived risks involved, 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:26.240 the potential benefits and impacts on sexual pleasure, and you know, 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:28.920 all the other concerns people have. So we've got a 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.880 lot to get through, So let's jump into it, all right. 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.000 So I'm going to run through really quickly kind of 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:39.760 the ancient history to get us up to speed. Circumcision 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:42.760 dates back thousands of years. I write a book called Circumcision, 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:47.120 a History of the world's most controversial surgery by David Gohler. 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.960 Sorry if I'm pronouncing that wrong, sir. And it points 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.960 to evidence that Egyptians may have been performing them as 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.480 early as four thousand BC. Wow, No one's really sure why, 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:00.480 but some idea of a transition into man hood, a 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:02.760 mark of elite status and. 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:04.400 Or just hygiene and cloniness. 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:06.680 So this was later in life though, Yeah, so it 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.240 would be like, I mean there's like great like uh 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:11.920 in carvings and it's like, yeah, it looks like probably 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:12.760 thirteen year old. 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.240 Boys, yeah out there, And this is maybe my timelines 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.160 are wrong, but four thousand BC would have been before 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:21.440 like a Judeo Christians exactly. 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.760 Yeah, so ritual, so that basically it's thought that Jews 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.560 adopted it from the Egyptians I see a bit later, 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.320 and their use was mainly as a covenant with God. 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:34.840 So it's basically like you do this for me, like 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.640 to prove you're you're really about this and you're one 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.600 of us, you know. Yeah, so it's like literally a mark. 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:43.760 And then there's also theories that it's kind of about 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:45.000 either sex, like. 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.800 Fertility or just like sexual power. Yeah. 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:50.600 Originally they were doing it a little bit older, but 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:52.480 then they chose to do on newborns because it was 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.320 like easier to do because if you're like, well you 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:56.840 got to do this when you become a man, it's 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:08.720 it's tougher selling naturally still here at that today. So 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:12.840 Moses who gave this decree, he was not circumcised himself. 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:17.600 And there's interesting stuff where people used uncircumcised as an insult. 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.880 So like people think he had a speech impediment and 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.880 they said, like he's speaking with uncircumcised lips or then 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.040 like if someone's being ignorant, they'd be like, oh, like 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.480 you're using your uncircumcised ears right now, so I need 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.480 I'm gonna start using that that good stuff. 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:34.760 Real uncircumcised. 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.320 If they're not paying attention to something, it's like, oh 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:44.199 you're man, or like you know, you got a filthy, 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.520 filthy mind or something to like any any sort of 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.200 kind of like there's there's obviously always a link between 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.800 like kind of cleanliness or hygiene and then like dirtiness 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.320 and and all that and capsules, so yeah, links to 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:58.520 fertility and also sexual virility. So on the flip side, 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.520 to discourage sexual pleasure later on too. You hear about 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.400 this is an idea to curb masturbation and kind of 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.560 impure sexual thoughts that didn't pain out. 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:09.359 Yeah that. 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.480 Yeah, well, so you won't be distracted with that when 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.040 you should be focused on God and other things. 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:18.960 And then thinking being it doesn't feel as good, so 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:21.040 not as much temptation. 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.879 Exactly, So yeah, you won't be so worried about it, 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.000 so fast forwarding. Of course, Muslims also adopted it. Some 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:30.040 scholars they're saying the force can trapped impurities in the body, 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:34.400 and many Aboriginal tribes in Australia and across Africa also 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:38.520 practice it. Reasons and you know, specifics and customs vary, 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:40.480 of course, but a lot of times it's like a 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:42.840 manhood ceremony is a test of bravery, So that's like 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:44.439 we're waiting for you to become a man and then 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:46.040 it's like to prove it. You're going to do this 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.080 and you know it's going to be painful and hard 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:48.639 and scary. 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:50.800 So fascinating that different parts of the world. 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:53.080 Yeah, like it I originally assumed it kind of all 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:55.639 stemmed from like the Judeo Yeah, and then spreading and 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:57.800 then to spread. But yeah, it's like kind of this 0:18:57.840 --> 0:18:59.960 thing where lots of people have this idea for whatever. 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:00.360 Yeah. 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:02.560 Yeah, yeah. 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:07.240