Speaker 1: The Dream Team Tapes season two. Kobe, Lebron and the
Speaker 1: Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association
Speaker 1: with I Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. The players selected for
Speaker 1: the honor of representing the United States in the two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe Bryant. We
Speaker 1: look forward to this for a while, you know, to
Speaker 1: be in this position now to here, we don't represent
Speaker 1: our county man, especially special Lebron James. We look for
Speaker 1: an opportunity of the weekend on Athlema being the best
Speaker 1: in the world. I guess the Redeem Team is because
Speaker 1: it is right, we're the best team in the world.
Speaker 1: We're the best team in the world. We put Basketball America,
Speaker 1: basketball wheels debeat, which is that, yes, Carmelo Anthony. For
Speaker 1: weeks now we've heard you say we're the best team
Speaker 1: in the world. We're the best team in the world.
Speaker 1: And now at last we're gonna find out how that happened.
Speaker 1: The place Beijing, the year two thousand and eight. The
Speaker 1: teams the United States Redeemed Team versus Spain, the Stakes
Speaker 1: and Olympic gold Medal. Welcome Do Episode ten of Kobe
Speaker 1: Lebron and the Redeemed team, which we're calling Labuskata pata
Speaker 1: l a, the quest for the gold that came after
Speaker 1: consultation with my son Chris, who's a Spanish translator. And wait,
Speaker 1: let's stand at attention. Okay, sitting at attention co host
Speaker 1: Jaya dandhe for a few bars of the Spanish national anthem,
Speaker 1: watch real now that is one of only four national anthems. Incidentally,
Speaker 1: that has no lyrics. There were no bombs bursting in air,
Speaker 1: there's no rockets, red glare and after some international competition,
Speaker 1: the Spaniards were roundly criticized for not singing their national anthem,
Speaker 1: when in fact there is nothing to sing anyway. Two
Speaker 1: questions co host j adande, which language did you study
Speaker 1: in high school? And more importantly, give us a brief
Speaker 1: sub up on how we got to this moment the
Speaker 1: United States versus Spain in the gold medal game in
Speaker 1: two thousand eight. Jack I studied French in high school,
Speaker 1: although I did take a little Spanish in college, and
Speaker 1: growing up in Los Angeles, as I did, you're surrounded
Speaker 1: by the Spanish language, so you absorb some words, so
Speaker 1: to speak. So I'm familiar with Spain. I I can
Speaker 1: get it. I would try to go back and forth
Speaker 1: and joke with Palkasol and Spanish every now and then
Speaker 1: and sort of make fun of my limited Spanish abilities.
Speaker 1: But I can absorb it. I get. I get the
Speaker 1: title of the episode put it that way. How did
Speaker 1: we get here? How were they playing in the Olympics.
Speaker 1: They've played seven games, including Spain before, So just give
Speaker 1: us a little sum up on how it's been going
Speaker 1: for the US in these Beijing Games, Jack, because you
Speaker 1: we watch the difference in the athletic ability is so stunning,
Speaker 1: and they'll get a breakaway and Lebron James or Dwayne
Speaker 1: Wade or Kobe will just soar through the air. There
Speaker 1: they're so fast too, and the moments when they're able
Speaker 1: to exercise and flaunt their athletic ability that there's just
Speaker 1: nothing else in the world that's close to that. And
Speaker 1: so they haven't enough of those moments to really cruise
Speaker 1: throughout most of the competition. But against Spain it's a
Speaker 1: little more limited. And you really see the beauty of
Speaker 1: basketball in this and that there's these moments where the
Speaker 1: USA does have that superior athletic ability, but it takes
Speaker 1: more than that to win in basketball, and that's the
Speaker 1: beauty of the game. It does take strategy and skill
Speaker 1: as well. And Spain, more than any other team throughout
Speaker 1: the Olympics, pushed United States to rely on all of
Speaker 1: its skill and coach k to rely on strategy and
Speaker 1: for them to come together and be more resilient. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know that they could have been challenged in the
Speaker 1: in the semifinal games against Argentina, but Monty Genoble hurts
Speaker 1: his ankle and doesn't get to play the rest of
Speaker 1: the game and US winds up playing pretty comfortable there.
Speaker 1: Sachefsky has defined his team and you see these roles
Speaker 1: coming to play in the gold medal game too. So
Speaker 1: it's Jason Kidd comes in, pushes the tempo, sets other
Speaker 1: guys up. Isn't looking to shoot at all, Kobe Bryant's
Speaker 1: looking to shoot plenty, Kobe Bryant's taking three point shots.
Speaker 1: Dwayne Wade is amazing and is the leading score for
Speaker 1: this team and and has his moments in the gold
Speaker 1: medal game. So one thing about this game, you can
Speaker 1: see it, and you can see the best elements and
Speaker 1: you can see how indicative this game was. Of what
Speaker 1: this team, how it was built, and how it played.
Speaker 1: You know, Spain, for its part, has had a good
Speaker 1: up to this point, has had a good but not
Speaker 1: a great Olympics. It included a hundred nineteen to eighty
Speaker 1: two loss to the United States in an early round game.
Speaker 1: It was a no contest. Eight US players scored in
Speaker 1: double figures. Lebron dominated the game with eighteen points eight assists,
Speaker 1: and Spain just didn't look like it came to play,
Speaker 1: which it probably didn't. And here's Craig Miller, USA Basketball's
Speaker 1: public relations chief, who has been around international ball for
Speaker 1: decades on the well, let's just say the philosophy of
Speaker 1: some European teams in these preliminary round games. We had
Speaker 1: played Spain earlier in preliminary playing beat them pretty badly
Speaker 1: as well. But you know, kind of the European teams
Speaker 1: have a tradition of when they start off these preliminary
Speaker 1: games and they get behind, it is kind of let
Speaker 1: up because there's nothing It doesn't mean that much whether
Speaker 1: they're the one seed or the two seeds to them,
Speaker 1: but you know they're going to have to play well
Speaker 1: and win or other games. But you absolutely could not
Speaker 1: count out Spain for this gold medal game, for the
Speaker 1: same reason that these international teams Spain, Argentina, Lithuania, Croatia,
Speaker 1: sometimes even France presents such formidable opposition. As redeemed team
Speaker 1: assistant coach Mike D'Antoni points out, you have to understand
Speaker 1: all these guys Spain and every country, they started playing together,
Speaker 1: and they're like thirteen years old. Every summer they're together,
Speaker 1: and by the time you hit him, when they're like
Speaker 1: thirty years old. They played together fifteen twenty years and
Speaker 1: they knew each other inside out. I'm gonna push back
Speaker 1: a little bit on that because Ricky Rubio didn't look
Speaker 1: like he'd been playing with them for fifteen to twenty years.
Speaker 1: Because Rickey Rubio looked like he was fifteen years old
Speaker 1: at the time. If you go back and which step
Speaker 1: look at that footage, I mean he looks like a teenager. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he looks like a kid in eighties sitcom, you know,
Speaker 1: who's like getting mud all over the floor of his
Speaker 1: parents house, or like a ball boy. He had wandered
Speaker 1: out onto the court. That doesn't mean he wasn't very effective,
Speaker 1: and that doesn't mean that the Spanish team the rest
Speaker 1: of the guys didn't have that that sort of spree
Speaker 1: to cord to use a French term on the Spanish team,
Speaker 1: but they had this this sense of belonging, this togetherness,
Speaker 1: and the USA had to sort of manufacture that and
Speaker 1: jump start that. And but that was a big part
Speaker 1: of the reason why Jerry Colangelo, the Godfather, wanted that
Speaker 1: three year commitment, was that if he couldn't replicate the
Speaker 1: the effect of a team being together for a decade,
Speaker 1: he could at least have them be together through multiple
Speaker 1: iterations and have gone through some ups and downs and
Speaker 1: have the memories. That's why it was good that you
Speaker 1: had guys like Carmelo and Lebron who had been on
Speaker 1: the two thousand four team that lost. They had that
Speaker 1: memory that had been on the two thousand and six
Speaker 1: team that lost in the World Championships and had that
Speaker 1: memory that collective experience together. And let's not forget a
Speaker 1: lot of these guys. People like to do ride the
Speaker 1: au culture in in American basketball, but in this case
Speaker 1: it helps that some of these guys had played together
Speaker 1: for a long time. Maybe they weren't on a national
Speaker 1: team together like players from Spain or Argentina, but Carmelo,
Speaker 1: Dwayne Wade, Lebron, James. These guys knew each other, They've
Speaker 1: been playing with each other for a long time. They
Speaker 1: were familiar with each other. And again, I think all
Speaker 1: of that comes into play into this game, no question.
Speaker 1: And and even beyond this sort of this kind of
Speaker 1: unfactorable team cohesion and being together for a long time,
Speaker 1: Spain is just damn good, you know. So, as we're
Speaker 1: gonna say we're ready for tip off, US sends out
Speaker 1: its usual starting lineup, Kobe and j Kidded, guard Lebron
Speaker 1: and Carmelo, Anthony and forward Dwight Howard at center. The
Speaker 1: gun Slinger, Flash the man. Coach k calls rocket Man.
Speaker 1: It's not gonna be long before he comes into the game.
Speaker 1: But Spain, okay, here's who they're sending out. K A
Speaker 1: Juan Carlos Navarro, who had just finished his rookie year
Speaker 1: with Memphis, although he did he did go back and
Speaker 1: play mostly in Spain. Ricky Rubio, the eighties sitcom kid
Speaker 1: who is a hell of a point guard, even though
Speaker 1: he looks a little overmatched in this game. There were
Speaker 1: also two formidable Spanish league stars and Felipe A. Ray's
Speaker 1: and Carlo Simenez and off the bench Rudy Fernandez, who
Speaker 1: had just average eleven points per game with Portland, Jose
Speaker 1: call the Roun who's in the middle of a long
Speaker 1: NBA career, and a budding star in Mark Gasol, who's
Speaker 1: about as rough a dude as the Olympics could offer.
Speaker 1: And I think I'm forgetting the big one. But the
Speaker 1: other starter for Spain, he's your guy. Tell him about it,
Speaker 1: j A. Tell us about pall Gasol, Pal Gasol, the
Speaker 1: recently minted Lakers. So that's the same year that he
Speaker 1: joins the Lakers in the trade, comes over from the
Speaker 1: Memphis Grizzlies, and he and Kobe immediately bond become a
Speaker 1: new dynam mcdouoh that goes to the Inn Bay Finals
Speaker 1: and gets stomped by the Boston Celtics, but clearly he
Speaker 1: had turned the Lakers back into a championship contender, along
Speaker 1: with the presidence of Kobe Bryant at his m v
Speaker 1: P best form. And it's funny just watching some of
Speaker 1: the plays in this it reminds me of Pow in
Speaker 1: the Laker uniform. In particular is playing the second half
Speaker 1: where he post up and comes to the middle and
Speaker 1: then turns back and has this lefty hook shot that
Speaker 1: goes in. Uh. He had a great shooting touch. He
Speaker 1: was a deft passer as well. Uh. Really smart guy.
Speaker 1: It's funny. Kobe used to try to really push him.
Speaker 1: Remember the famous black Swan speech that I need to
Speaker 1: be more of the Black Swan, can't be the white Swan.
Speaker 1: Sometimes Kobe thought that Poal needed to be a little tougher,
Speaker 1: and Kobe would do his best to bring that out
Speaker 1: of him. Phil Jackson wants punched pau Gasolt in the
Speaker 1: chest to try to get him to toughen up a
Speaker 1: little bit. That was actually when it phils last games
Speaker 1: with the Lakers in a in a playoff series lost
Speaker 1: to Dallas. So there was that need to extract a
Speaker 1: little bit of the toughness from him. But the skill
Speaker 1: and the intelligence um and just a beautiful player to
Speaker 1: watch play basketball, if you want to use that word
Speaker 1: to describe it. Uh. For a guy that size, a
Speaker 1: guy that's tall, to be so skilled and have such
Speaker 1: a soft shooting touch. Was really a unique player. And
Speaker 1: again team with Kobe Bryant made the Lakers one of
Speaker 1: the best teams in the league. Did Kobe called Pale
Speaker 1: his favorite teammates somewhere along the line, or did I
Speaker 1: imagine that? I don't. I don't know if he actually
Speaker 1: specifically said that, but they had a very very special bond.
Speaker 1: Kobe probably doesn't think of any teammate as his that's
Speaker 1: his favorite. Maybe it's probably somebody on this team. It's
Speaker 1: probably somebody from the two thousand eight or two thousand
Speaker 1: twelve Olympic teams. But so we're all set. You got
Speaker 1: the you got real NBA, true NBA talent on the floor,
Speaker 1: and the game j A is hardly highly charged from
Speaker 1: the beginning. This ain't no aliminary round. And Coach K
Speaker 1: interestingly goes early. I think it's one of those games
Speaker 1: where people were going to be losing a little bit
Speaker 1: of their wind. You know, it's so fraught with tension,
Speaker 1: these gold medal games. So Coach K goes early to
Speaker 1: a combo Chris Paul, Darren Williams, Chris Bosh and Tayshawn Prince,
Speaker 1: and that really ups their energy a little bit. What
Speaker 1: it kind of looks like a modern team a little bit.
Speaker 1: You know, the way they played, what is the what
Speaker 1: did they give him? Well, for one thing, you get
Speaker 1: you get a point guard or point guards, and Chris
Speaker 1: Paul and Daryn Williams who can attack. And and Jason
Speaker 1: Kidd again he set the tempo. He was looking to
Speaker 1: set other guys up, but he's not gonna be on
Speaker 1: the attack. And there's a couple of moments where Spain
Speaker 1: actually goes up by five points to go up nineteen fourteen.
Speaker 1: They go up seventeen and both times Chris Paul answers.
Speaker 1: He gets to the basket and he's got an answer
Speaker 1: for that. He goes on the attack, and that's not
Speaker 1: something that you would get from Jason Kidd. So you
Speaker 1: have that, you have the defensive presidents, you you have
Speaker 1: even some offense from from from Tashaun Prince. Um. You
Speaker 1: know he makes three shots that there's one shot the
Speaker 1: Tasha makes where his arm extends on a layup and
Speaker 1: it looks like his arm goes up to the rafts.
Speaker 1: When you talk about the definitive qualities of Tashawn Prince,
Speaker 1: it's those long arms, and you see that come into
Speaker 1: play in the first half of this game. Competitive The
Speaker 1: USA goes up by thirteen points at one pot three
Speaker 1: after a rugged first quarter twenty three free throws were
Speaker 1: shot in the first quarter. It's pretty rough and tumbling
Speaker 1: their physical game. Um, you get Wade and Kobe both
Speaker 1: then for a little while in the second quarter, and
Speaker 1: that's when they take that big lead, and you think
Speaker 1: about it, the majesty of having what we're clearly at
Speaker 1: the time the two best shooting guards in the NBA,
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant, and it was really it wasn't one and two,
Speaker 1: it was one A and one bat that that's how
Speaker 1: good these two guys were, and that's how good Twyne
Speaker 1: Wade had become that soon in his career. And to
Speaker 1: see both of them on the court at the same
Speaker 1: time on same team was pretty amazing. And it pushes
Speaker 1: the USA up to lead, but uh, they can't hold it,
Speaker 1: and it's down to single duds before halftime, one at halftime,
Speaker 1: and then the United States. We had mentioned this before.
Speaker 1: It's just basketball. I mean, people go, how do they
Speaker 1: how are they so good? And then they fall asleep.
Speaker 1: It's basketball. The other team kind of wakes up and
Speaker 1: in the third quarter they come out a little tepid.
Speaker 1: The play that struck me the most j was uncharacteristically,
Speaker 1: somebody just wrenches the ball out of Lebron's hands. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, normally that would take like four people. So
Speaker 1: Spain cuts the lead seventy one with about six minutes
Speaker 1: left in the third quarter. Now and Coach K goes
Speaker 1: all Chicago on their ass. You know, I can't exactly
Speaker 1: everybody can look at this game, by the way, go
Speaker 1: to go to YouTube and google USA versus Spain. As
Speaker 1: I've said before, we're not allowed to play clip from
Speaker 1: the game, but it's a fantastic game. And Coach K,
Speaker 1: I think, says, start playing fucking defense, like I know
Speaker 1: you can, and and sure enough what had happened was
Speaker 1: one Carlos Navarro got loose on a high pick and
Speaker 1: roll that was played unaggressively by h. Dwight Howard. But
Speaker 1: it's one of those coaching explosions. You know, I love
Speaker 1: coaching explosion stories. You've got you have any from your
Speaker 1: from your career, any you remember I've got two When
Speaker 1: was John Thompson. It wasn't a verbal explosion in the
Speaker 1: huddle like that. It was a physical explosion where they're
Speaker 1: playing a nonconference opponent, they're blowing them out, and one
Speaker 1: of his players on the court gets a breakaway and
Speaker 1: does a three sixty dunk, and John thinks he's showing
Speaker 1: up the competition and he can't wait to get him
Speaker 1: out of here. And he just goes down the sideline,
Speaker 1: reaches down, grabs the nearest player he can find. I
Speaker 1: don't even think he looked to see if it was
Speaker 1: the right position to replace his player. He wanted to
Speaker 1: get out here, grabs a kid by the jersey, throws
Speaker 1: him down to the scorer's table to check it. I'll
Speaker 1: never kid just reaches out, grabs his kid's jersey, throws
Speaker 1: him the scores able to check in and get this
Speaker 1: kid out of there. Another great coaching showdown moment involved
Speaker 1: Phil Jackson actually backing down the middle of Game seven
Speaker 1: Western Conference Finals two thousands, two Lakers at Sacramento Arco Arena,
Speaker 1: packed its noisy, It's one of the tensest games I've
Speaker 1: ever covered. And Robert or is running down court and
Speaker 1: Phil Jackson yells at him for some defensive mis Q.
Speaker 1: And Rob's point was that he was covering up for
Speaker 1: somebody else's mistake. It wasn't his fault. Phil should beyelling
Speaker 1: at the other guys. So you see Phil yelling at
Speaker 1: rob Ory, and then Rob yells back at him, and
Speaker 1: then Phil just says, okay, and it's over. My favorite guy, don't.
Speaker 1: Did you ever have the pleasure of watching uh Doug
Speaker 1: mo coach the great Denver? Yeah, I remember watching him coach. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Doug was Doug was insane and I and I loved
Speaker 1: watching Doug. And Doug would be there before the game,
Speaker 1: like you could be talking to Doug to set before
Speaker 1: the game and he could be making a joke the
Speaker 1: minute the game started. And I was there one night
Speaker 1: and Wayne Cooper, one of the one of the best
Speaker 1: guys ever to play, real good natured and a real
Speaker 1: good defensive center for Doug. The game starts, Doug shirt
Speaker 1: immediately like comes out of his pants. He starts going crazy.
Speaker 1: Ten seconds into the game. Ten seconds Doug screams, Coop,
Speaker 1: you're playing with your head and your ass, and Cooper goes,
Speaker 1: there wasn't even time. There wasn't even time for me
Speaker 1: to take a defensive position, you know. So I just
Speaker 1: love Doug went from zero to sixty better than anybody.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so the United States responds to this a
Speaker 1: little bit, but this is a tough team they're playing.
Speaker 1: They recovered to lead to eight two after three periods,
Speaker 1: So this sort of this sort of non double digit lead,
Speaker 1: you know, would continue the first period, the second period
Speaker 1: and the third period. Space stayed in the zone most
Speaker 1: of the game. And it's one of those games, Jay,
Speaker 1: when they just you know, you were draining jumper after jumper.
Speaker 1: I mean that rarely happens in those high pressure, high
Speaker 1: high stakes games. It was a spirited effort by both teams,
Speaker 1: you know. And in Spain, Man, they don't get enough credit,
Speaker 1: you know, they do not get enough credit for how
Speaker 1: good that that team was. I mean, you know, they
Speaker 1: had five or six guys, probably seven or eight. I'm
Speaker 1: sure I'm missing a couple, um that had NBA experience,
Speaker 1: they played in the league, and those guys have been
Speaker 1: playing together since their fifteen sixteen years old, you know,
Speaker 1: so their their effort doesn't get enough credit because I remember,
Speaker 1: like we kept you know, you make the adjustments in game.
Speaker 1: Usually we'd have a bit more breathing room, you know, Okay,
Speaker 1: if it was closed to be like okay, eighteen, we
Speaker 1: need to close them out, you know, a single possession
Speaker 1: game coming down to the wire. I don't think any
Speaker 1: of us expected it, but um, you know, in those moments,
Speaker 1: you just have to uh do what you're taught, play
Speaker 1: the game and stay the course of the game. And
Speaker 1: that was Chris Boss reflecting on his memories of that game,
Speaker 1: And yeah, it was tough. And one thing you notice
Speaker 1: is that it seems like every time the American players
Speaker 1: try to drive, two or three Spanish players collapse in
Speaker 1: the lane and and it's just crowded and there's bodies bumping,
Speaker 1: people getting knocked to the ground a lot. Of course,
Speaker 1: Dwayne Wade going to the ground, that was what he
Speaker 1: was known for, even had a commercial like that. So
Speaker 1: Dwayne Wade's on the ground a lot. All that stuff's
Speaker 1: going on, and then Spain goes on a run and
Speaker 1: they're only down by two points and then coach k
Speaker 1: remembers that moment. Specifically, the most pressure moment I've ever
Speaker 1: had as a coach was the gold medal game with
Speaker 1: eight minutes to go, a little bit over it, when
Speaker 1: Spain had stopped about seven of our fast breaks with
Speaker 1: that stinking international intentional foul, you know, like when you
Speaker 1: they just follow you at half court and they're not
Speaker 1: held accountable. It's really one of the bad rules of
Speaker 1: all time. So we should be winning by a lot,
Speaker 1: but we've we've not gotten fourteen sixteen points on that
Speaker 1: and obviously they're good, and it feels like all the
Speaker 1: momentum in the world is there and all the that
Speaker 1: so called game pressure, it was more than game pressure.
Speaker 1: It was Olympic Gold Medal game pressure. And that time
Speaker 1: out we got together and our guys started talking, and
Speaker 1: we had kind of built that where they could talk.
Speaker 1: Wasn't just me talking and and and I didn't diagram
Speaker 1: anything or we just talked and we'll be all right
Speaker 1: that you know, Kobe, we got it. It was around
Speaker 1: that same moment that Sean f Or, the team's director
Speaker 1: of operation, he remembers that scene also, and this really
Speaker 1: struck me that years later the memory of for him
Speaker 1: of looking at Kobe and Wade is just seared into
Speaker 1: his brain pan and here he uh he talks about it.
Speaker 1: There's a time I think it was somewhere around the
Speaker 1: eight minute mark, could have been a little bit less
Speaker 1: than that in the gold medal game and Coach k
Speaker 1: called the time out. It was like a prize fight,
Speaker 1: and you just in between rounds and Kobe and and
Speaker 1: Dwayne sat down next to each other on the bench
Speaker 1: and just stared across. You know, I think coach talked
Speaker 1: to him a little bit, but I don't even think
Speaker 1: that they were listening. They were just so I've never
Speaker 1: seen two people so locked in in my life. They
Speaker 1: just went and sat down and they were just like,
Speaker 1: you know, like they were just so focused. You're listening
Speaker 1: to Kobe Lebron and of a deem team. We'll be
Speaker 1: back after this. Okay, So we don't have time for
Speaker 1: a play by play here, but a couple of things
Speaker 1: stand out. Jake, it's nine, US is up by two
Speaker 1: in the gold medal game and Kobe. I don't know
Speaker 1: whether a set play was established, but Kobe breaks the
Speaker 1: U S night would they ridiculous? Shouldn't have taken it?
Speaker 1: But I did it? So f you pump line drive
Speaker 1: across the lane and assistant coach Jim Beheim remembers that moment.
Speaker 1: I probably wasn't a big fan of Kobe maybe, but
Speaker 1: when we were we were in trouble and we were
Speaker 1: I don't care what the revisionist history is, but Spain
Speaker 1: had us in Beijing. We were up, they were coming,
Speaker 1: they came back. They were ten. It's two points and
Speaker 1: Kobe's got the ball. Nobody wanted the ball. I'm doing you.
Speaker 1: He went into the lane and he double pumped almost
Speaker 1: and he got it and made it. Okay, we've alluded
Speaker 1: to this before, but how many how many times have
Speaker 1: you seen some of that ridiculous shot making from Kobe
Speaker 1: over the years? So many? And one that stands out
Speaker 1: to that stands out from the same game, the last
Speaker 1: game of the regular season in two thousand four. They're
Speaker 1: in Portland's and they need a three to first cent
Speaker 1: in and overtime, and then he's got a chance to
Speaker 1: win the game with one and he's being guarded by
Speaker 1: Ruben Patterson and there's not a lot of time left.
Speaker 1: He can't dribble go around him. He just gets the
Speaker 1: ball and somehow wriggles his way free and throws in
Speaker 1: a three pointer contested. He made one against d Wayne
Speaker 1: Wade in Miami. Uh going across left to right, curls
Speaker 1: his body like it's a parentheses, like an opening parentheses,
Speaker 1: and throws up this shot, banks it off the glass.
Speaker 1: And I'll say it again, if there's only one second
Speaker 1: left in a game, I could pick Kobe Bryant. If
Speaker 1: I get my choice of anyone I'm taking Kobe the
Speaker 1: best bad shot acre of all time and this one
Speaker 1: that you just described, Jack is certainly a bad shot.
Speaker 1: You're wondering, that's what they get out of a time out?
Speaker 1: Is Kobe driving through the lane contested hanging jumper, not
Speaker 1: even really squared up to the basket. But guess what
Speaker 1: it pays to have the best bad shot maker of
Speaker 1: all time. That was a bad shot and he made it,
Speaker 1: that's for sure, you know. So, So now we are
Speaker 1: in stretched time and an interesting question arises. J This
Speaker 1: kind of fascinated me from the beginning. I could have
Speaker 1: spent two hours talking these guys about that. So you've
Speaker 1: got the number one big shot, bad shot dude on
Speaker 1: the planet, which you just describe, but you also have
Speaker 1: in Lebron James, the number one multi talented distributor in
Speaker 1: Lebron um to make decisions for you. So who you
Speaker 1: gonna call? And we put that question to a few
Speaker 1: of our interview subjects, And keep in mind we have
Speaker 1: to say that some times the answered to who are
Speaker 1: you going to give it to Kobe or Lebron is
Speaker 1: Dwayne Wade, and it has been throughout this Olympics. But
Speaker 1: here we framed it as kind of do you want
Speaker 1: to give it to Kobe or do you want to
Speaker 1: give it to Lebron. First, here's Jay Kidd. I've always
Speaker 1: thought Lebron is always gonna make the right play because
Speaker 1: he's he can find the open guy. He can make
Speaker 1: the game so easy. Um, so I would lean towards
Speaker 1: to giving him the ball, letting him decide who's going
Speaker 1: to make the play. But you can't go wrong because
Speaker 1: Kobe is coming off and you you know in that
Speaker 1: game against Spain he made some big shots and uh,
Speaker 1: and that's just who he is. And so, um, to
Speaker 1: answer you a question, you give it to both of them,
Speaker 1: because you can't go wrong. Um, Lebron again, Lebron is
Speaker 1: gonna find the open guy. He makes the game so easy.
Speaker 1: He's gonna draw attention and get two or three guys
Speaker 1: on him, and it's up to the guy making the
Speaker 1: open shot. And so they both in their nature are
Speaker 1: our winners. And uh, and so I would say, you
Speaker 1: can't go wrong because you know, if you get the
Speaker 1: ball to Kobe, he's gonna do something magical with it
Speaker 1: and and find a way to win the game. And
Speaker 1: next Mike D'Antoni we all know Kobe, he's not He's
Speaker 1: not gonna be shining away from that moment. So I
Speaker 1: don't think it was a collective right, let's get the
Speaker 1: ball to Kobe. He was like, Hey, I'm doing this,
Speaker 1: and I think as it goes on, you know, his personality,
Speaker 1: he just he's coming at you, and it just out.
Speaker 1: You know, we always use the phrase the ball finds energy.
Speaker 1: At that moment, his energy is off the chain. So
Speaker 1: I don't think it was consciously but subconsciously, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: gotta you gotta kill her over here on the left.
Speaker 1: Let's get the ball right there. I don't think anybody
Speaker 1: had to say anything. Chris Boss's answer was a little
Speaker 1: more direct, Kobe and get out of the way. You know,
Speaker 1: I've never, uh just to ask my own philosophy, you know,
Speaker 1: I've never I never wants to make the game more complicated,
Speaker 1: um than it needs to be in that situation. You know,
Speaker 1: I just feel that, Um, that's what he's always done.
Speaker 1: That's what Kobe does. And you know, I just get
Speaker 1: him in a straight up I self situation and you know,
Speaker 1: ask him where he wants it. Count the clock down
Speaker 1: all the way to you know, and get the last
Speaker 1: shot if possible, and let him do his think. And
Speaker 1: finally here's Darren Williams. There's no disrespect to Lebron, because
Speaker 1: of course Kobe. Kobe's covered up and there's somebody else
Speaker 1: there is going to Lebron. But as far as just
Speaker 1: getting the bucket, I mean, it's I don't Besides, Jordan's
Speaker 1: hasn't been anybody better in the game. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: that's what he does. It was the moments he loves for.
Speaker 1: He's so comfortable with three hands in his face being found.
Speaker 1: I mean, it just it didn't matter with him. I've
Speaker 1: seen it s up close and personal, you know, put
Speaker 1: me out of three playoffs in a row, you know,
Speaker 1: and that that gets back to that bad shot maker
Speaker 1: with one second left. He's just undeterred by that. And
Speaker 1: what was interesting though, was that this this was a
Speaker 1: question that was going around at the time. And I'll
Speaker 1: never forget one NBA source that used to talk to
Speaker 1: regularly that year. He tells me the answer to the
Speaker 1: Kobe Lebron debate, which was in full fury at that time.
Speaker 1: He said, Okay, in crunch time, with the gold medal
Speaker 1: on the line, who did they go to Kobe? Lebron,
Speaker 1: and the answer was Kobe. And and it wasn't just
Speaker 1: that that hanging shot in the lane that we just described.
Speaker 1: He comes down and he drives, and then he he
Speaker 1: hits Darren Williams who makes a three pointer, and then
Speaker 1: it's Kobe did Dwight Howard for a dunk. So he's
Speaker 1: just in the middle of everything going on right there,
Speaker 1: and he wasn't about to let them lose that game,
Speaker 1: you know. I was just thinking about this yet when
Speaker 1: and we're probably gonna have a of we we might
Speaker 1: have the greatest of all time discussion somewhere down the road.
Speaker 1: Yet we don't put We don't and I never have.
Speaker 1: We do not put Kobe into the greatest player of
Speaker 1: all time discussion, do we? He he was for a
Speaker 1: long time. And then it was Kobe versus Jordan's for
Speaker 1: a while, in particular at this time. But you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think one and two though, do you do
Speaker 1: you think they were? I'm not sure they were one
Speaker 1: and two. Ever, it was for especially when Kobe was
Speaker 1: scoring eighty one points and doing some things that Jordan
Speaker 1: never had. It was Kobe or Jordan's And then Lebron
Speaker 1: entered the chat so to speak. Lebron had to win
Speaker 1: a championship first. You can't be in this discussion until
Speaker 1: you win a championship. And Kobe gets up to five championships,
Speaker 1: you know, right, he's equaled Magic Johnson. He's one behind
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan and Kareem Abdul Jabbar. You get five. No,
Speaker 1: I understand, I'm gonna I did a By the way,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've done this in your career. If you
Speaker 1: want to get into trouble, try that all time top
Speaker 1: fifty or all time a hundred lists or something like that.
Speaker 1: I may have to recalibrate a little on Kobe the
Speaker 1: last time I did it. Um, I have somebody that
Speaker 1: if to this day, if he if he knew where
Speaker 1: I lived, Uh, he would come after my ass because
Speaker 1: I just had Kobe way too low. But anyway, this
Speaker 1: is another two hour discussion. But with three ten left,
Speaker 1: the US is leading by only one oh four. Now,
Speaker 1: everybody on the team remember this moment. Kobe hits a
Speaker 1: jumper and then puts his finger to his lips as
Speaker 1: if to quiet the crowd. I I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: the connoisseur of the collector of the first time something happened.
Speaker 1: But the finger to the lips is a pretty good taunt,
Speaker 1: about as good as you could do. I guess that's
Speaker 1: in the annals of taunting. J A. I guess that's
Speaker 1: an acceptable one, right. It's certainly totally takes some balls.
Speaker 1: It seemed a little weird though, because it wasn't like
Speaker 1: he was quieting the whole crowd. Because if you if
Speaker 1: you watch the crowded, I think it's mostly locals, and
Speaker 1: so they don't necessarily have a stake in it, and
Speaker 1: they're applauding good plays on both sides. Um you know,
Speaker 1: there's a USA contingent there. There's a lot of dignitaries
Speaker 1: there who are making no noise. But there is one
Speaker 1: angle when you see uh when there shooting free throws
Speaker 1: at the other and you look back and you notice
Speaker 1: that there's a bunch of Spanish fans behind that basket
Speaker 1: that the USA was shooting at in the second half,
Speaker 1: and so I think Kobe was directing it specifically to
Speaker 1: that section and he told them, you know, they had
Speaker 1: their flags and everything, and they're they were making noise,
Speaker 1: and he told them to quiet down, you know, time
Speaker 1: to go to sleep. Little cys. The time, right, the
Speaker 1: game is over when it's not, and uh that you know,
Speaker 1: I like the quiet be quiet um Kobe. Kobe used
Speaker 1: to kind of do a tumble like finger wag and
Speaker 1: say no, no, no, if you'd hit a big shot
Speaker 1: on the road. Of course, Sam Casselle all had the
Speaker 1: big Balls Dance that that was a class se Unfortunately
Speaker 1: the NBA band they also banned the throats last remember, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know you Reggie Miller had a great Reggie Miller
Speaker 1: was a throat slash guy, I believe, But I I
Speaker 1: wish there was video for this to you. You skip
Speaker 1: right over the Sam cassel Big Balls Dance because that
Speaker 1: that is a moment for mel A from NBA history
Speaker 1: that I will never forget. The only strange thing about
Speaker 1: Kobe was, uh, there was still three ten left. I
Speaker 1: mean it was you're you're probably right. It was more
Speaker 1: more assigned shut up to that section of the crowd
Speaker 1: rather than the games over because we got a waste
Speaker 1: to go, honestly. But on that play, Kobe was also
Speaker 1: fouled by Rudy Fernandez, who, by the way, is enough
Speaker 1: of a hot dog that he just had Rudy written
Speaker 1: on the back of his Jersey like he's like Ronaldo
Speaker 1: or neymar or something right exactly one name. So he
Speaker 1: got fouled by Rudy on the play. It was his
Speaker 1: fifth foul. I think in that game game Rudy is
Speaker 1: not as good a player as Palca Soul, but in
Speaker 1: that game he was. He was really good, probably the
Speaker 1: best player. So uh, you know, Kobe also made the
Speaker 1: free throw. So it's a four point play, but one
Speaker 1: final play. And note a huge wing jumper by Dwayne
Speaker 1: Wade with two oh three left. Probably that's the killer.
Speaker 1: And what I have to note in my current you know,
Speaker 1: continuous sermonizing about Lebron as a distributor. I watched that
Speaker 1: play a couple of times. Lebron plants himself at the
Speaker 1: elbow with his back to the basket. He is calling
Speaker 1: for he wants the ball somehow, he knows he's gonna
Speaker 1: get it. Definite point of distribution. He gets the past,
Speaker 1: he's triple team by you know, he's forcibly triple team.
Speaker 1: Now doesn't bother him, finds a wide open Wade, who finishes,
Speaker 1: finishes with the jump shot, and who, by the way,
Speaker 1: finished with twenty points. Uh, Kobe had twenty although the
Speaker 1: majority of them were in crunch time and uh, that
Speaker 1: was the ball game. Yeah, it was over and then
Speaker 1: it was just a matter of counting down the time
Speaker 1: and Jack the elation on the American ball players faces
Speaker 1: after it was over, and the joy that they felt
Speaker 1: they weren't mercenaries. Um, it was something that there was
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure on them too, and they finally delivered.
Speaker 1: And you see Kobe holding up his USA jersey, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, thumping his chess basically like that. They're skipping around,
Speaker 1: they're all they're jumping together at half court. They do
Speaker 1: a USA channel. It's kind of cool, you know that
Speaker 1: that that's their chance one two three USA. It was
Speaker 1: one last moment for for America. And Mike Schowski is there.
Speaker 1: It's kind of cool. He's standing on the sidelines looking
Speaker 1: at them and applauding them, just applauding their effort. It's
Speaker 1: a great moment for him. But I like the fact
Speaker 1: that in that moment he's locked into them and it's
Speaker 1: happy for them and their accomplishment. And he described his
Speaker 1: thoughts looking out at that scene. What a joyous celebration afterwards,
Speaker 1: you know, the Uh, it's a moment in time that
Speaker 1: you know, some of the greatest players in the history
Speaker 1: of our game could share together. You're listening to Kobe,
Speaker 1: Lebron and Redeemed Team Jay and I will be back
Speaker 1: in a minute. Let's remember Jay that this two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight win was the first of three in a row,
Speaker 1: a trifecta for the Showsky I guess we could call
Speaker 1: the Showski administration, which in all three of those Olympics
Speaker 1: included Lebron, d Wade, and Carmelo, and assistant coach Jim
Speaker 1: Beheim puts, that's what this wind in Beijing in historical perspective,
Speaker 1: particularly remembering the World Championship loss to Greece in two
Speaker 1: thousand six and the two thousand four Olympics. Here's bee Hund.
Speaker 1: I mean there was a lot where I winning the Olympics.
Speaker 1: I mean if we lost to Spain, I don't even
Speaker 1: know if we'd have been back, we might have been
Speaker 1: done for sure. If we lost to Greece and then
Speaker 1: lost the next year to Spain in the Olympics and
Speaker 1: they we probably would have been all done. So Ja,
Speaker 1: that puts a rap on the two thousand and eight Olympics. Uh,
Speaker 1: We're gonna be back for a bonus episode or two.
Speaker 1: But I just have one final thought, and I know
Speaker 1: you have one too. It's my particular sermon on to
Speaker 1: repeat it on Lebron moving up to two thousand twelve
Speaker 1: in London, which we're not going to talk about, but
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna bring this to your attention. Lebron has
Speaker 1: now won a championship, uh, coming off a championship season.
Speaker 1: But on that team, here's Lebron again. Kevin Durant average
Speaker 1: as he should, great score, probably without injuries, may have
Speaker 1: finished the greatest score ever. He averaged nineteen point five
Speaker 1: points per game. Carmelo Anthony, who by then you would
Speaker 1: think had been kind of reduced to a little bit
Speaker 1: of a secondary role, is second with sixteen point three.
Speaker 1: Lebron James the champion, probably not probably definitely the best
Speaker 1: player in the game at that time. Thirteen point three
Speaker 1: points per game, nine shots per game is all. He
Speaker 1: took six shooting, he got five point six rebounds, he
Speaker 1: got five point eight assists. That's just the kind of
Speaker 1: player that Lebron James is was, and is you get
Speaker 1: him on your team, you're gonna be a better team
Speaker 1: because he's gonna do everything he can to be that
Speaker 1: team player. And that's what I take away from, uh,
Speaker 1: from these Olympic Games. You looking back on that moment
Speaker 1: when they received their gold medals and the Nason anthem,
Speaker 1: and I was struck by how much less complicated the
Speaker 1: time that was. In two thousand and eight. Were a
Speaker 1: few years away from Trayvon Martin and Mod Aubrey and
Speaker 1: of course George Floyd and and all these things that
Speaker 1: have have changed the discussion and forced people to think
Speaker 1: about America. We're eight years away from Colin Kaepernick kneeling
Speaker 1: during the anthem and protesting police brutality and not being
Speaker 1: able to stand at attention for the flag and the
Speaker 1: anthem of a country that continuously kills black men with
Speaker 1: with no consequences for for for those who abuse or
Speaker 1: kill them. And those things all existed in two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight, but they weren't at the forefront of the discussion.
Speaker 1: It was a much more optimistic time. Think about two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight. That's the year that America goes on
Speaker 1: to elect its first black president. And so this sort
Speaker 1: of unqualified patriotism by all the players on the team,
Speaker 1: all of whom were African American, and the they're all
Speaker 1: holding their hands over their hearts, and Kobe in particular
Speaker 1: is singing along to the national anthem, and they had
Speaker 1: put pay traatism and representing the country at the center
Speaker 1: of that team, and here it was and they were
Speaker 1: reveling in it at this moment, and you could see
Speaker 1: the pride that they had in being American, and at
Speaker 1: that point in time, it just wasn't this this cognitive dissonance,
Speaker 1: this duality, and it was it just seemed a purer time.
Speaker 1: We don't think of the two thousand and eight is
Speaker 1: being purer, but compared to today, a moment like that,
Speaker 1: you could just see them feel patriotic and that was cool.
Speaker 1: And Kobe in particular, seeing him that happy and that giddy.
Speaker 1: And he'd been an NBA champion before, but now he
Speaker 1: was an Olympic champion, a gold medalist, uh, something that
Speaker 1: he hadn't had the opportunity to do before, and now
Speaker 1: he's one for one. He finally gets his chance. We've
Speaker 1: gone over some of the reasons why he couldn't or
Speaker 1: didn't participate in the past, but he gets his chance
Speaker 1: and now he has a gold medal around his neck
Speaker 1: and he's giddy. He keeps kissing the gold medal. He
Speaker 1: can't stop smiling, He's pumping his fist, and it was
Speaker 1: cool for me to see that moment for him. I
Speaker 1: think of some of the moments at the very very
Speaker 1: top of his career. I think of him leaping in
Speaker 1: the Shack's arms after they win their first championship together
Speaker 1: in two thousands. I think of this moment when he
Speaker 1: realizes he's about to close in on his first championship
Speaker 1: without check in two thousand nine, and there's a time out.
Speaker 1: He's on his way back to the bench and he
Speaker 1: just bends over like a ski jumper, and he's just
Speaker 1: pumping his face like he can feel the moment's already here,
Speaker 1: almost here, and now this time, after everything he's been
Speaker 1: through and he's back on top. He is on top
Speaker 1: of the world. And he has shared this experience Jack,
Speaker 1: and we've chronicled how he sort of got to know
Speaker 1: his teammates and became a part of the team and
Speaker 1: bonded with them. And I just want to get back
Speaker 1: to this Carmelo Anthony sound that we had. We played
Speaker 1: some of it for you in the very first episode,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna play it in its entirety or more
Speaker 1: full version of it now and and Carmelo talking about
Speaker 1: how they were a to bond with Kobe, and he
Speaker 1: says that was his number one takeaway from that Olympic experience. See,
Speaker 1: the one thing I would say, like the vivid memories
Speaker 1: is just the way that especially speaking on keeping it
Speaker 1: on Kobe, like the way that he like bought himself
Speaker 1: to become so comfortable with us, you know, and the
Speaker 1: players on the team and you know, really understanding like okay,
Speaker 1: like this is the band of brothers here, like you
Speaker 1: know in the Lakers, he was, he was who he
Speaker 1: was right he would you know, he he come in
Speaker 1: early in the morning, he come in late at night,
Speaker 1: and he's working and he's doing his thing, and he's
Speaker 1: out when people coming there and there it was you know,
Speaker 1: he never let nobody in there with him like he was.
Speaker 1: You know, he was very you know, secretive in stand
Speaker 1: office with us, Like you saw him like slowly letting
Speaker 1: his guard down, even on the buses, you know, even
Speaker 1: going to the Olympic village and going to others sporting
Speaker 1: in these bands, like you saw the guard coming coming down.
Speaker 1: You saw those bricks falling, and he was fully immersed
Speaker 1: in and what we was doing and being there with us,
Speaker 1: and that was something that was like, Okay, he finally like, okay,
Speaker 1: we got the last brick down, like we you know,
Speaker 1: he the wall is down, Like it's down, y'all. Damn
Speaker 1: we did a good job. Like it was. You almost
Speaker 1: felt like a sense of victory seeing him laugh the
Speaker 1: way that he was laughing and you know, talking and
Speaker 1: communicating and stories, and just like you, we felt that.
Speaker 1: I think we gave him another egge and we gave
Speaker 1: him another level of sharpness because he knew like how
Speaker 1: sharp we were on that team, you know, from us
Speaker 1: getting up early in the morning and training and working
Speaker 1: out and talking and can you watching film and and
Speaker 1: you know, having fun too. But he saw the sharpness
Speaker 1: that we had on that team everybody and and what
Speaker 1: what I used to say was iron sharpens iron. And
Speaker 1: he understood that. He understands that language, and he also
Speaker 1: understands something that we submit him. We always say, lions
Speaker 1: don't hang with others, don't hang with nobody other than lions, right,
Speaker 1: so he he when you when you put it that
Speaker 1: way to him, and you messed with the you know,
Speaker 1: the the cerebral part of it. He locks in, and
Speaker 1: I think that's what that's what he was dealing with,
Speaker 1: Like he knew like he was being sharpened by us
Speaker 1: and we was being sharpened by him. We understood that.
Speaker 1: And I think after oh eight, even the next year
Speaker 1: when we played those guys in the Western Conference finals,
Speaker 1: you just saw the sharpness, like you saw the mentality,
Speaker 1: the mentality like, oh, I was missing this gold medal,
Speaker 1: Like this is what I was missing. I was you know,
Speaker 1: I was three p I three ted, I won, but
Speaker 1: I never had this. Now I can say I have
Speaker 1: a gold medals. And I think that's that's also why
Speaker 1: he approached it the way that he approached because that's
Speaker 1: what he was missing. All right. So that's a wrap
Speaker 1: for Kobe Lebron and the redeem Team, the story of
Speaker 1: the two thousand and eight Gold Medal winners. There's a
Speaker 1: lot we talked about the organization of the team by Godfather,
Speaker 1: Jerry Colangelo, Mike Shasky, bringing them all together, the personalities
Speaker 1: on this team, and I certainly think about Kobe myself,
Speaker 1: and I just think about the uh, the defiant Kobe
Speaker 1: that the story I told you about about going to
Speaker 1: do a story on him, about the scoring race and
Speaker 1: him telling me, Oh, it's not a race. What are
Speaker 1: you talking about? Man? He goes for forty eight and
Speaker 1: fifty on that weekend and then just stares at me
Speaker 1: with this kind of smiling contempt as he walks off
Speaker 1: the floor. And I'm sitting at the at the press box.
Speaker 1: So it's been great going through this with you. We
Speaker 1: hope to have a couple of bonus episodes. And uh,
Speaker 1: I'm Jack McCallum signing off. And Jack has been great
Speaker 1: doing this with you, and I always love hearing your stories,
Speaker 1: and you're expertise on the history of basketball, and it's
Speaker 1: been fun to revisit this this time and this somewhat
Speaker 1: overlooked team, and hopefully people have a better understanding of them.
Speaker 1: I certainly do, and we certainly want to thank all
Speaker 1: of those who took time to share their memories of
Speaker 1: this experience with us. It's been a pleasure for us
Speaker 1: to pass that along to you. Thanks for listening. The
Speaker 1: Dream Team Tapes, Season two, Kobe Lebron and the Redeem
Speaker 1: Team is a production of Diversion podcasts in association with
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcast. This season is written and hosted
Speaker 1: by me, Jack McCallum and j A. The executive producer
Speaker 1: Scott Waxman and Mark Francis for Diversion Podcast and Shawn's
Speaker 1: High Tone for I Heart Radio. Our editorial director is
Speaker 1: John Tuttle, Supervising producer Brian Murphy, legal producer Freddie Overstegen, Editing,
Speaker 1: mixing and sound designed by Mark Frances. Verna Fields is
Speaker 1: our technical producer, and our director of Marketing and business
Speaker 1: Development is Jacob Bronstein Diversion Podcasts