1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: name is Robert Lamb. 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick. And today on Stuff to 5 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 3: Blow Your Mind, we're going to be talking about the 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 3: great Red Spot of Jupiter. 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: That's right. We've you know, we've talked about the Jovian 8 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: moons before Jupiter comes up time and time again. We 9 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 2: did an episode talking about, you know, then the mythical 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 2: connotations of Jupiter for sure, but you know, we've never 11 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 2: done an episode just on Jupiter, and we're not going 12 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 2: to do that today. We're focusing on a detail of Jupiter. 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: I think Jupiter is just too big, Like, is it 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 2: too big of a topic? Well, probably not. We could 15 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 2: cover it in multiple episodes, but Jupiter is just so 16 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 2: large that it feels intimidating to even attempt to cover 17 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 2: all of it. 18 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 3: Oh, we're doing it piece by piece, defeat in detail. 19 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: That's right, like eating an elephant, as they say. Yeah, 20 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 2: Jupiter is the largest planet in our Solar system, commanding, 21 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 2: as we've covered before, its own vast system of moons. 22 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 2: Its massiveness is such that a Jupiter mass is actually 23 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 2: used as a unit to describe the massive other massive 24 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 2: cosmic bodies, and given its size and proximity to Earth, 25 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 2: humans have known of the fifth planet since very ancient times, 26 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 2: so long before the invention of the telescope, with observations 27 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 2: made by ancient Babylonians, ancient Chinese, among others. It's bright 28 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 2: and it is observable to the naked eye. 29 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 3: Right, you may in fact associate Jupiter with the dawn 30 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 3: of the age of the telescope, and that could be 31 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 3: because Jupiter is very important, and say the story of 32 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 3: Galileo's early observations. Like Galileo, one of the most important 33 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 3: things he saw early on the telescope was the moons 34 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 3: of Jupiter. He discovered the Galilean moons named after him. Now, 35 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 3: but yeah, we knew about the planet as a point 36 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 3: of life in the sky, one of the movable stars 37 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 3: going back thousands of years. 38 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: That's right. So there are a number of what I mean, 39 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: Jupiter is an immensely important planet as in addition to 40 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 2: just being immense in all sorts of ways. The main 41 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,839 Speaker 2: thing we're going to be talking about here today, though, 42 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 2: is is less essential but more of an interesting detail, 43 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,399 Speaker 2: and indeed an iconic detail of its appearance, that being 44 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 2: the great Red Spot, the big red storm that is 45 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: visible on the planet Jupiter, and I think, more to 46 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,679 Speaker 2: the point, is highly visible in every illustration you've ever 47 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: seen of the Solar System, every drawing of the Solar System, 48 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 2: and specifically the planet Jupiter, that you ever had to 49 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 2: do or chose to do as a child and onward. 50 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 3: I would say that the Great Red Spot sort of 51 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 3: gives Jupiter a face that some of the other gas 52 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 3: giants don't have. Though, as we may discuss later on 53 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 3: in this episode or the next, there are similar visible 54 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 3: weather patterns and storms on some of the other gas giants. 55 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 3: There's a big spot on Saturn, there's a spot on Neptune, 56 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 3: as we've talked about before. But I would say none 57 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 3: of those other features are as clear and easy to 58 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 3: see and as just kind of face like as the 59 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 3: red spot on Jupiter. 60 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, like a great red eye staring at us, judging us, 61 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 2: maybe protecting us a little bit. And you know, of 62 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: course it's not really an eye. You know, I'm glad 63 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: it's nothing. Oh what if it was just a blemish 64 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 2: on Jupiter's face and we've just been staring at it? 65 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: The whole time. 66 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 3: So rude, my belts are up here. 67 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah. Even with great vision and optimal eyesight, 68 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 2: humans were unable to glimpse the details of the gas 69 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: giants swirling surface until the invention of the telescope in 70 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 2: the early seventeenth century CEE. So, to be clear, humans 71 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: have only been capable of observing the Great Red Spot 72 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,119 Speaker 2: of Jupiter for roughly three centuries. And the really interesting 73 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: thing on top of this is that the planet's key 74 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 2: identifying mark, again that every school child can replicate, is 75 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 2: neither a permanent or even long lasting feature, certainly in 76 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 2: terms of the life of a planet, but rather a 77 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: temporary atmospheric occurrence that seemingly comes and goes. We've only 78 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: been observing it for a very short amount of time, 79 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 2: you know, it's as a human observed phenomenon. 80 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I guess it can actually be weird in 81 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 3: terms of its existence in time from two different directions. 82 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 3: On one hand, if you think of it as a 83 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 3: feature of the surface of a planet, the fact that 84 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 3: it's a weather pattern makes it actually quite kind of 85 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 3: transient and unstable. You know, it sort of undermines the 86 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 3: ground beneath your feet. To think that the face of 87 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 3: another planet in our Solar system, which we learned when 88 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 3: we were children in school, could be changing within our lifetimes. 89 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 3: Even on the other hand, if you think about it 90 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 3: as a weather pattern, it's kind of freaky how stable 91 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 3: it is for decades or even hundreds of years. 92 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. All right, Well, let's 93 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 2: get into the history of the observation of the Great 94 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 2: Red Spot. So, given that that observation of the Great 95 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 2: Red Spot wasn't possible before the telescope, when do human 96 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 2: observers start noticing it during the telescope era? Based on 97 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 2: what I was reading here, the earliest possible observation, and 98 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 2: I think, ultimately, as we'll discuss, unlikely observation dates back 99 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: to May ninth, sixteen sixty four, and that's when seventeenth 100 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 2: century English polymath and author of micrographia Robert Hook observes 101 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 2: something on the face of Jupiter that he described as 102 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 2: a small spot moving east to west. Quote in the 103 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 2: biggest of the three obscure belts of Jupiter. Now we 104 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 2: could easily do a whole episode on Robert Hook. He 105 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 2: had his hands in multiple areas of some aientific inquiry. 106 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: He was especially active in the study of the microscopic 107 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: world using new microscopic technology. His book Micrographia concerns this work. 108 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 2: In fact, I'm to understand he coined the term cell 109 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: in this book, so he was concerned with the little things, 110 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 2: but also the ginormous things such as Jupiter. But based 111 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 2: on a subsequent sixteen sixty six observation and nineteen eighty 112 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 2: seven analysis by Marco for Lani in the Journal of 113 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 2: the British Astronomical Association, I was reading at its thought 114 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 2: that this would have situated the spot in what is 115 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 2: now known as the North Equatorial Belt, the Great Black 116 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 2: Belt according to the American Physical Society, while the Great 117 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 2: Red Spot that we know today is in the South 118 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 2: Equatorial Belt. So, given what we've already explored and what 119 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: we'll be getting into, you might well wonder if this 120 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 2: was actually a different storm that Hook was observing. Well, possibly, 121 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 2: But for Lani's argument here was that Hook actually was 122 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 2: looking at the shadow of or the transit, you know, 123 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 2: the silhouette of the second largest Jovian moon, Callisto, or 124 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: some other transit shadow. The Royal Society backed Hook's claim, however, 125 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: and there are you know, various arguments about you know, 126 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 2: nationalism and so forth that would have been wound up 127 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 2: in that judgment at the time. 128 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I've read the same analysis. So the question is, 129 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 3: did he observe the same storm that we see today 130 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 3: as the Great Red Spot? Probably not. Was it maybe 131 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 3: a different storm than we see today possibly, or was 132 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 3: it the shadow cast or the silhouette of one of 133 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 3: the moons, And for Lani says the latter. 134 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And that seems to be a fairly convincing 135 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: argument here. Now. The other possibility in terms of first 136 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: or earliest documented sighting of the red spot takes us 137 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 2: to sixteen sixty five, just a year after Hook's sighting, 138 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 2: and that's when Italian French astronomer Giovanni Cassini noted it 139 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 2: for the first time. In his letters, he described weeding 140 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 2: out different transit shadow spots and noting quote a permanent 141 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 2: one which was often seen to return in the same 142 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 2: place with the same size and shape. So he totaled 143 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 2: thirteen observations. He calculated its rotation. He did not note 144 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: the color, perhaps according to the Journal of the British 145 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: Astronomical Association, because the instrumentation was too low light to 146 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 2: really pick up on any colorization. Now Again, historians between 147 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 2: these two tend to favor the Cassini observation because it 148 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 2: seems that Cassini is definitely observing. There's a stronger case 149 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 2: to be made that he's observing an actual storm here, 150 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 2: an actual storm spot on Jupiter. But an important distinction 151 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 2: to make here is that this might not have been 152 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 2: the same storm that we see and know today as 153 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 2: being the iconic Great Storm of Jupiter. The article that 154 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 2: I referenced on the Journal of the British Astronomical Association 155 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 2: titled May sixteen sixty four Hook versus Cassini, who discovered 156 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 2: Jupiter's red spot, points out that that first of all, 157 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 2: the history of the red spot or spots is imperfect, 158 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 2: and that no one observed the red spot on Jupiter 159 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 2: after seventeen thirteen until eighteen thirty one, that's when Heinrich 160 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 2: Schwabe observed it and then described in much greater detail 161 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 2: by American astronomer C. W. Pritchett in eighteen seventy eight. 162 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 2: Often often references being the individual to quote unquote rediscover 163 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 2: the great Red Spot, So the permanent spot of Cassini 164 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 2: and the great red spot that astronomers have been observing 165 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: since at least eighteen thirty one, they might be two 166 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 2: very different storms. Since around twenty twelve, scientists have observed 167 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 2: a shrinking of the Great Red Spot, and recent flaking 168 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 2: has also led some to think that it might it 169 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 2: might one day disappear. Some have predicted in the past 170 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 2: as little as decades from the point of observation. Others, 171 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: and certainly I think more recent observers, have urged more 172 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 2: caution on this. I mean, I say caution, not that 173 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 2: this is really any threat to us whatsoever, but it 174 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 2: They tend to suggest that it may last for some centuries. 175 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 2: Yet I'm not sure if it will last to twenty 176 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 2: four oh one. Hard to say, But this is ultimately 177 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 2: one of those things where no one really knows, because 178 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 2: again it's a storm. Everyone is familiar with the difficulties 179 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 2: we have in predicting how the weather works on our planet. 180 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 2: You know, it's a complex system. Likewise, it's difficult even 181 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 2: with Jupiter to figure out, Well, this storm has lasted 182 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 2: for decades at least, but will it last for decades, more, 183 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 2: centuries more? 184 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 3: We just don't know, right, So not caution in the 185 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 3: sense of it could harm us, but maybe caution in 186 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 3: the sense of like, don't go to one of the 187 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 3: betting markets and put big money on the storm being 188 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 3: there or disappearing in a certain timeline. There's not a 189 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 3: whole lot we know. 190 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 2: It would be very interesting to see how the public 191 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 2: responded to it, because I think back to, of course 192 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 2: changes in categorizations or adjustments and categorizations of Pluto as 193 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 2: a planet or some other astral body, and you know, 194 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 2: people ended up having strong opinions about that because the 195 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 2: idea that Pluto's not on the list anymore. It made 196 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:30,479 Speaker 2: them feel threatened at times, are wounded in a way. 197 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 2: And I can imagine a similar reaction to scientists telling everyone, 198 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 2: you know, the red spot in Jupiter is not there anymore, 199 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 2: so don't draw Jupiter the same way, and please everyone 200 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 2: make corrections to your textbooks. 201 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 3: You know, thinking back on the Pluto thing, some people 202 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 3: I think genuinely do get frustrated when they have to 203 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 3: update what they know about something. But on the other hand, 204 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 3: I think a lot of that was just people trying 205 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 3: to be cute. Yes, just making a little jokey post 206 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 3: on Facebook, like don't take my Pluto away. But somehow 207 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 3: I don't know it like it's something that I think 208 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 3: snowballed from a mostly ironic posting to begin with, into like, 209 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 3: I don't know, somehow an actual kind of sentiment about 210 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 3: like I'm dissatisfied with astronomy today. 211 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. It kind of at least dips its toes, even 212 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 2: in jest, into sort of science denial, doesn't it. 213 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 3: Yes, though, of course the idea of a planet is 214 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 3: not like a consistent objective category over time. The whole 215 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 3: thing was like, we're updating the definition of what we 216 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 3: consider a planet. 217 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we could have gone in the other 218 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,959 Speaker 2: direction and just added a list of other things on 219 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 2: the end there. I can't imagine people wanted to memorize 220 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 2: more planets, So you know, I feel like this was 221 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 2: a good balance. 222 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 3: Oh, I hadn't thought of it that way. Yeah, yeah, 223 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 3: you'd want to add series to. 224 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 2: The list you want to. But that's Pluto. Pluto small 225 00:12:54,840 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 2: and ultimately insignificant compared to the glory of Jupiter. And 226 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 2: and of course it's red Storm, It's great red spot. 227 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 2: There is another, by the way, at least one more. 228 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 2: There is the Little Red Spot, also known as Red 229 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 2: Spot Junior or oval Ba, which formed in nineteen ninety 230 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 2: eight and two thousand from three white oval shaped storms. 231 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 2: So again, like new stuff pops up new details. If 232 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 2: you look at some of the glorious detailed imagery that 233 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 2: we now have of the storms of Jupiter, I mean 234 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: it is a complex system. It is like a crazy 235 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 2: swirl of madness there. 236 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 3: Sorry, sorry, I just had to check something off, Mike, 237 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 3: because I had a massive musical confusion in my brain. 238 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,839 Speaker 3: When you said Red Spot Junior. I thought I was 239 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 3: hearing that to the tune of the theme song of 240 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 3: a cartoon I watched as a child called James Bond Junior, 241 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 3: Red Spot Junior. But then it turned out I went 242 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 3: and checked and I wasn't even remembering the theme song, right. 243 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 3: I think I was hearing the tune of the Transformers 244 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 3: theme in my head, but putting James Bond Junior. 245 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 2: I don't remember James Bond Jr. 246 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 3: Oh Man, I'm glad I could bring you on this 247 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 3: journey with. 248 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 4: Me, folks, all right, So back to the great Red 249 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 4: Spot grs if you prefer is pointed out by Simon 250 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 4: Et Hall in twenty eighteen's Historical and Contemporary Trends in 251 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 4: the size, drift and color of Jupiter's Great Red Spot 252 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 4: published in the Astronomical Journal. 253 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 2: We have roughly one hundred and fifty years going one 254 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 2: hundred and sixty now obviously worth of recorded observations of 255 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: the Great Red Spot that we can study. Now. They 256 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 2: point out that the measurement accuracy and all of these 257 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 2: observations depending greatly on terrestrial atmospheric conditions, the skill of 258 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 2: the observer, and the contrast of the Great Red Spot 259 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 2: with its ever moving surroundings. Because as we'll discuss, it's 260 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 2: like there's coloration changes in there as well. It's not 261 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 2: a consistent color of time, nor a consistent shape and size. 262 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 3: Nor a consistent color throughout. I mean, even within the 263 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 3: Great Red Spot, you've got like the sort of central 264 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 3: redder area, and then you've got kind of a white 265 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 3: band around the outside of it. And then that's within 266 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 3: like the wider stripes along the latitudinal stripes along Jupiter, 267 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 3: which are known as the zones, and the darker, more 268 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 3: orange or red stripes which are known as the belts. 269 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, so in this paper they averaged out reported measurements 270 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 2: to better reflect the likely actual conditions in Jupiter's atmosphere. 271 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: And I'll get to some of their general details here 272 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 2: in a second, but we should probably point out some 273 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 2: of the things that they highlight here as well about 274 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 2: where our imagery comes from. So some of our most 275 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 2: impressive images, of course, of Jupiter come not from earth 276 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 2: bound telescopes and observatories, but from satellites and especially flybys 277 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 2: of the planet Jupiter, such as nineteen seventy four's Pioneer 278 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 2: ten and eleven. These revealed stark colorization more than detail. 279 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 2: Then we had seventy nine's Voyager and Voyager ten. I 280 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 2: forget which one became vegure. Interesting since we mentioned I 281 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 2: don't know which you want? Did they both become feature? 282 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 2: I don't know. 283 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 3: We all become vegure. 284 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:14,359 Speaker 2: Eventually they revealed a more complex inner working in velocity 285 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 2: fields of the storm. And then we have of course 286 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: the Hubble space telescope, Galileo, Cassini, New Horizons, and Juno, 287 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 2: and these have all helped to produce just a robust 288 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 2: monitoring record of Jupiter and Jupiter's Great Red Spot. Certainly, 289 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 2: among other things confirming is continual evolution, that it is 290 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 2: a thing that is continually changing now at the time 291 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 2: of this study, they pointed to these general trends and stats. 292 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 2: You can get into a great deal of detail here. 293 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 2: We'll get into more detail as we get into this episode, 294 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: but they do state that, yeah, it is in fact shrinking, 295 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 2: though it's too large and too complex a system for 296 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 2: us to really leave it at that and do it justice. 297 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 2: There's a great deal of information about how it's longitude 298 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 2: length has continued to decrease, as has its latitudinal width, 299 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 2: while there's also been an observable increase in its westward 300 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 2: drift rate. Internal velocities have increased on the east west 301 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 2: edges and to decreased on the north and south, so 302 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 2: it's become a rounder over time. But again, it's like 303 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 2: our mind, it's so big and into even more details. 304 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 2: I mean, the Jupiter is enormous, This storm is enormous, 305 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 2: and it is also incredibly complex. So you can't again, 306 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 2: you can't just talk about its color. It has multiple 307 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 2: colors in it, and maybe those colors, when seen from 308 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 2: a great distance or rendered in just a certain way, 309 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 2: takes on a certain feeling of red or orange or 310 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 2: you know, a sort of a rusty brown. But yeah, 311 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 2: it's it's one of those things that we want to 312 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 2: be able to categorize it as more of a single 313 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: entity when I mean it is, but it is again, 314 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 2: it's a great storm. It's not it's not a it's 315 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 2: not like even a planet itself. We can sort of 316 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 2: look to as a conceivable whole, and we have just 317 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 2: a different system going on here. 318 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 3: Well, much like a storm on Earth. I mean, we 319 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 3: identify it as a thing, a coherent mass. But of 320 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 3: course that you know, it is a pattern within fluids, 321 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 3: within masses of fluids, and so there are fluids that 322 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 3: are constantly flowing in and flowing out from it. 323 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you get into a quick questions like, well, 324 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 2: there's a hurricane, what is it made of? Well it's yes, 325 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 2: it's made of rain drops on one level, but there's 326 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 2: a lot more to the answer. 327 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 3: You could say it's made of energy. Yeah, yeah, I 328 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 3: don't have to think about that. 329 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 2: But we want to be able to answer the question 330 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 2: with a succinct Oh, it's made of X. You know. 331 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 2: So this study also points out, yeah, you have changing 332 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 2: size and internal wind speeds that have been observable from 333 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 2: seventy nine through twenty seventeen, again keeping in mind the 334 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 2: publication date of this paper, and this seemed to result 335 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:03,479 Speaker 2: in decreased internal circulation within the spot, intensity of the 336 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 2: storm and resulting darkness. Lightness in places has also shifted, 337 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 2: and again I've seen this characterized as a general darkening, 338 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 2: but I think that what you see discussed in more 339 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 2: in depth papers like this indicates something far more complex, 340 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 2: with coloration and brightness depending on the exact composition and 341 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 2: intensities within the storm system. Now, again, we absolutely don't 342 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 2: know how long the storm will ultimately last. Again, it's 343 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 2: an extremely temporary condition in the lifespan of a planet, 344 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 2: but long lasting within the context of human lives, human observation, 345 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 2: and in comparison to terrestrial storms. That being said, more 346 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 2: commentators these days seem to favor a longer continued lifespan 347 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 2: for the storm unless I noticed at least one paper 348 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 2: pointing out unless something really cataclysmic occurs. 349 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 3: I wonder what they got in mind for that, What 350 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 3: like like an asteroid hitting it or something. 351 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 2: Well, this got me thinking, I was like, what would 352 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 2: it take? So it does get rather fascinating because, first 353 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 2: of all, Jupiter does take a lot of hits, and 354 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: some of these hits have been like pretty brutal. It's 355 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 2: pointed out in a twenty nineteen NASA article by Carl B. 356 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 2: Hilly From July sixteenth through July twenty second. In nineteen 357 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 2: ninety four, enormous fragments of the Shoemaker Levy nine comet 358 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 2: crashed into Jupiter over the course of several days, and 359 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 2: it had just been discovered a year prior, quote, creating 360 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: huge dark scars in the planet's atmosphere and lofting superheated 361 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 2: plumes into its stratosphere. Yeah, and you can look up 362 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 2: images of this. I included a couple for us here, Joe. Yeah, Like, 363 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 2: it basically looks like the planet's a lower hemisphere was 364 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 2: hit with celestial buckshot. 365 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it has wounds and they're strangely kind of 366 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 3: scattered almost along a line. 367 00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:58,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, you see. 368 00:20:59,000 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 4: Yeah. 369 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. And the interesting thing is that, first of all, 370 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 2: these scars persisted for months and were and we're reported 371 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 2: to be and certainly you can look at the images 372 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 2: and see this for yourself. They're more noticeable than the 373 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 2: Great Red Spot during this time. So this was definitely 374 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 2: a period. And you know, I was in school at 375 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 2: the time. I don't remember anyone making a point out 376 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 2: of this, but like, Jupiter definitely looked different as long 377 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 2: as these scars were hanging out, and you know, we 378 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 2: didn't freak out about updating the illustrations or anything, but 379 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 2: these were big hits. These were the sorts of things 380 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 2: that if these fragments had hit the Earth, we'd be 381 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 2: talking about an extinction event. Wow. And observation of these 382 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 2: impacts I was reading at the time helped fuel efforts 383 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 2: to better protect potential space collisions involving the Earth. You know, certainly, 384 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 2: you know driving home that collisions like this still do 385 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 2: occur in our Solar system, and it's not unthinkable that 386 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 2: they could occur to our planet, and therefore maybe we 387 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 2: need to keep a better eye on what's out there. 388 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 3: Well, fortunately we're a smaller target both in terms of 389 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 3: size and gravitational attraction. 390 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, Jupiter is the broad side of a barn here 391 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 2: any respects. 392 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 3: But doesn't mean we shouldn't we shouldn't be vigilant. 393 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, as we've discussed in the show before, 394 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 2: like we need to have an idea of what's out there, 395 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 2: and all these efforts to track them and coordinate and 396 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 2: to possibly redirect anything that's incoming vitally important to everything 397 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 2: we're doing on the planet. For good or ill. 398 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, and a plan of what to do, a well 399 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 3: researched plan. 400 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:42,479 Speaker 2: Yes, So these fragments that hit a hit Jupiter, they 401 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 2: didn't directly impact the Red Spot. We can if you 402 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 2: look at some of these images, and you can look 403 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 2: at one up here, Joe, you can still see the 404 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 2: much fainter spot in this July first, nineteen ninety four 405 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 2: image that I've included for you to the right. And 406 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 2: even if the Red Spot took a direct hit, it 407 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 2: seems like there's plenty of reason to assume that such 408 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 2: a large storm system would maybe be slightly temporarily altered, 409 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,959 Speaker 2: but otherwise would remain. So we should remember that in 410 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 2: addition to being historically larger than the Earth in its diameter, 411 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,479 Speaker 2: in its footprint, the storm is also quite deep, and 412 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 2: again is an energetic system. Now how deep fairly recent 413 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 2: recordings give us estimates on this. According to a twenty 414 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 2: twenty one Wiseman Institute of Science and NASA collaboration, the 415 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 2: Great Red Spot likely extends to a depth of about 416 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 2: five hundred kilometers or three hundred and eleven miles below 417 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 2: the planet's clouds, and you can compare that to the 418 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 2: storm's diameter of roughly two hundred and fifty miles or 419 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 2: sixteen three hundred and fifty kilometers. So what kind of 420 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 2: cataclysm would it take to erase the Big Red Spot. 421 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 2: It seems like it would need to be a cataclysm 422 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 2: on the sort of scale that would threaten Jupiter itself, 423 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 2: like a collision with a planet it or close passage 424 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 2: to a massive star. And of course, in either scenario, 425 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 2: the loss of the Red Spot will be the least 426 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 2: of our worries here on Earth. 427 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 3: All right, now, Rob, you asked me to look a 428 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 3: little bit more into the nature of the storm. We've 429 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 3: said several times now that the Great Red Spot is 430 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 3: a storm, but what kind of storm is it? 431 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: Like? 432 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 3: What's going on there? So I looked into this. The 433 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 3: Great Red Spot is, in the words of the authors 434 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 3: of a paper I think you mentioned earlier, Rob, and 435 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 3: we may come back to in the next part of 436 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 3: the series won by Sanchez la Vega at All from 437 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, the Great Red Spot is a giant 438 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 3: anti cyclone vortex. Now that will make more sense if 439 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 3: we break it up into its parts. Normally, when we're 440 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 3: talking about weather, a vortex is a rotating, revolving mass 441 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 3: of air, So when air begins flowing in a spiral 442 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 3: around a central axis. So a tornado is a type 443 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 3: of vortex. A hurricane is a vortex. A polar vortex 444 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 3: is a vortex. Vortex has the same meaning on Jupiter 445 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 3: that it does on Earth, but of course, because we're 446 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 3: on Jupiter, it's not rotating air. It is the atmospheric 447 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 3: gases found on the planet, which are mostly hydrogen and helium, 448 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 3: with some other things mixed in there as well, methane, 449 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 3: ammonia and things like that. So that's vortex. What about 450 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 3: the anti cyclone bit. Anti cyclone refers to the structure 451 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 3: of the vortex, and anti cyclone is easier to understand 452 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 3: in contrast with its opposite, which, as you might guess, 453 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 3: is the cyclone. A cyclone has a circulation pattern where 454 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 3: the wind flows counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere and clockwise 455 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 3: in the southern hemisphere, and anti cyclone is the opposite. 456 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 3: North of the equator, an anti cyclone spins clockwise south 457 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 3: of the equator counterclockwise. Now from that distinction, you might 458 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 3: assume that cyclones and anti cyclones are essentially just mirror 459 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,959 Speaker 3: images of each other, kind of like a wind that 460 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 3: blows from the east versus a wind that blows from 461 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 3: the west is going to be about the same as 462 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 3: just what direction that's going. But that's not the case 463 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 3: at all. On Earth, cyclones and anti cyclones tend to 464 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 3: have extremely different characteristics as weather. There are some exceptions, 465 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 3: but generally an anti cyclone is going to mean clear skies, calm, 466 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 3: dry weather on the ground, really just not much to notice. 467 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 3: So often an anti cyclone doesn't even really register to 468 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 3: us as weather. It's just like, oh, it's nice and 469 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 3: clear out, clear skies, it's dry, It's yeah, great, great 470 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 3: nice weather. Meanwhile, cyclones include stormy patterns like hurricanes and typhoons. 471 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 3: Those are both examples of a tropical cyclone. These bring clouds, 472 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 3: high winds, and rain. So what makes the difference. Why 473 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 3: would the direction of rotation of a massive air feel 474 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 3: so different on the ground. Well, A major factor determining 475 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 3: whether a cyclone or an anti cyclone pattern forms in 476 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 3: a massive air is pressure. So an anti cyclone forms 477 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 3: around a region of relatively high atmospheric pressure and high pressure. 478 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 3: The air is dense and it wants to sink. So 479 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 3: with an anti cyclone, you've got dry, cool air from 480 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 3: higher up in the atmosphere that converges near the center 481 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 3: of the pattern, and then it falls down toward the 482 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 3: earth because of the high pressure, it wants to sink, 483 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 3: and then it diverges outward from the center at the bottom. 484 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 3: So this is not exactly right, but just you can 485 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 3: roughly kind of imagine a whirlpool sucking cool, dry air 486 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 3: from way up high in the atmosphere and then funneling 487 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 3: it down to the ground where it then kind of 488 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 3: spreads out gently over the surface. Meanwhile, well, a cyclone 489 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 3: is formed around a region of low atmospheric pressure. It's 490 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 3: the opposite. In a low pressure region, warm moist air 491 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 3: near the surface begins to rise up and this causes 492 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 3: more warm moist air to flow in from all around 493 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 3: near the surface to take its place. This is sometimes 494 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 3: described as convergence at the surface, meaning the surface of 495 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 3: the Earth like the ground or the surface of the sea. 496 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 3: So it's flowing to the middle around the ground, and 497 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 3: the air flowing to the middle from the bottom is 498 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 3: again in contrast to the anti cyclone, where the air 499 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 3: flows to the middle from the top. The low pressure 500 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 3: and the convergence at the surface these tend to result 501 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 3: in cloud formation, rain, and high winds. So why do 502 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 3: these patterns have opposite rotation in the northern and southern hemispheres. 503 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 3: This is because of the Coriolis effect. We've talked about 504 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 3: this on the show before, but just to briefly refresh, 505 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 3: it's that manifests because it is not only the air 506 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 3: that is moving over the surface of the Earth. It's 507 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 3: not like the surface of the Earth is actually stationary 508 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 3: and the air is moving around. The surface of the 509 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 3: Earth is moving too. The Earth is rotating, and so 510 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 3: the Earth rotates counterclockwise. If you're looking down at it 511 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 3: from the north pole, it rotates clockwise if you're viewing 512 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 3: from the south pole. And as a result, objects moving 513 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 3: in the atmosphere within the rotating reference frame of the 514 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 3: Earth will appear to have their path deflected because the 515 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 3: Earth itself is moving, and it will appear to be 516 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 3: deflected to the right in the northern hemisphere and to 517 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 3: the left in the southern hemisphere, and that creates these 518 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 3: different patterns. That's why it's different on the different sides 519 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 3: of the equator. By the way the Coriolis effect, it 520 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 3: only manifests on large scales. The idea that it determines 521 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 3: which way the water flows down the drain and the sink. 522 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 3: That is a misconception that's apparently based more on things 523 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 3: like the shape of the sink and how you pour 524 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 3: the water. You see Corioli's forces popping up in like 525 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 3: big movements of masses like weather and ocean currents and 526 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 3: stuff like that. 527 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 2: The Simpsons taught us wrong on this one, they did. 528 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 3: Yes, a rare miss for them. You know the Simpsons. 529 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 3: Often they get the math and science right, usually. 530 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 2: If you're not familiar with what we're talking about. I 531 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 2: don't remember the season, but what they travel to Australia, Yes, 532 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 2: where where the US Embassy has a toilet, like a 533 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 2: high tech toilet that's been specially designed to force a 534 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 2: northern hemisphere directional flush effect as opposed to a southern 535 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 2: hemisphere flush, which, again, as we're making clear here, is not. 536 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 3: A thing right to make it flow the right way. Yeah, 537 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 3: but anyway, back to the storms here. So again, cyclones 538 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 3: form the basis of most storms and bad weather on Earth. 539 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 3: I mentioned there were some exceptions. There are some occasional 540 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 3: large anti cyclone storms that can form for various reasons, 541 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 3: but that's more rare. On Earth, most of your big 542 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 3: storms are cyclones. Tropical cyclones like hurricanes and typhoons form 543 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 3: over low pressure regions in the ocean north and south 544 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 3: of the equator. So they form these massive rotating systems 545 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 3: where you've got warm, wet air that comes up off 546 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 3: of the ocean and it circulates and forms a spiral 547 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 3: of thunderstorms with high winds. And generally these storms they 548 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,719 Speaker 3: build up in energy and intensity, and they can travel 549 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 3: around and they usually dissipate once the storm either moves 550 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 3: onto land or into cooler waters at higher latitudes, robbing 551 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 3: the storm of the warm wet air that supplies it 552 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 3: with energy and keeps it going. So Jupiter's Great Red 553 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 3: Spot is an anti cyclone vortex. It is a spiraling storm, 554 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 3: but unlike most of these big storms on Earth, it 555 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 3: is a high pressure system, not a low pressure system, 556 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 3: and it rotates in the anti cyclonic direction counterclockwise in 557 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 3: Jupiter's southern hemisphere. So that's the two parts of the 558 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 3: description anti cyclone vortex. But there was a third word. 559 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 3: It is a giant anti cyclone vortex, and it is 560 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 3: indeed giant. You were already alluding to this, rob how 561 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 3: big exactly is the storm. It seems currently it is 562 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 3: more than sixteen thousand kilometers wide, which is bigger than 563 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 3: the entire planet Earth. As we've said, Earth's diameter is 564 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 3: something like twelve seven hundred and fifty kilometers. The Red 565 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 3: Storm is more than sixteen thousand. And I also just 566 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 3: want to briefly compare this to the biggest storms in 567 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 3: the historical record on Earth. The largest storm ever recorded. 568 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 3: This doesn't mean necessarily the largest storm ever to occur, 569 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 3: but the biggest one we ever measured was Typhoon Tip, 570 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 3: a tropical cyclone that formed in the Western Pacific in 571 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 3: October nineteen seventy nine. Tip was huge, with a peak 572 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 3: diameter of more than two thy two hundred kilometers. A 573 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 3: common comparison people make is that if you laid the 574 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 3: storm out over the eastern United States, the edges of 575 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 3: the storm would reach from Texas to New England, just 576 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 3: gigantic by Earth standards. But of course, the Great Red 577 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 3: Spot is not only a lot bigger than that storm, 578 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 3: it's bigger than the whole planet. And it is not 579 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 3: even currently at its maximum size. As you were talking about, Rob, 580 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 3: you know, when it was first observed, the diameter of 581 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 3: the spot was estimated to be almost fifty thousand kilometers, 582 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 3: which is more than three times the width of Earth. 583 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 3: I think actually almost four times the diameter of Earth. 584 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 3: And so again contained in that fact about the change 585 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 3: over time is the implication that the Great Red Spot 586 00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 3: fluctuates greatly in terms of size and structure. Another thing 587 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 3: is the contrast in intensity with the biggest storms we 588 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 3: know about on Earth. In Typhoon Tip, the wind gusts 589 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 3: reached more than three hundred kilometers per hour, which is 590 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 3: absolutely crazy. That is really really high wind. But the 591 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 3: Great Red Spot storm is even more intense. I've read 592 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 3: different numbers here for the wind speeds. I'm not sure, 593 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 3: but I wonder if any discrepancies in the accounting might 594 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 3: have to do with the fact that there's no solid 595 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 3: surface below to measure the winds against. I don't know 596 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 3: if it has to do with the fact that it's 597 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 3: fluid on fluid, but anyway, I was looking for a 598 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,240 Speaker 3: good source on this, and I used a fact page 599 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 3: from NASA's Juno mission, which was focused on Jupiter's atmosphere, 600 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,280 Speaker 3: among other things. So that seems to be a good authority, 601 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 3: and they peg the range of wind speeds within the 602 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 3: Great Red Spot at four hundred and thirty to six 603 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 3: hundred and eighty kilometers per hour or two hundred and 604 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 3: seventy four to twenty five miles per hour. That would 605 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 3: be within the outer reaches where the winds are the 606 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 3: most intense. In any case, way way more powerful than 607 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 3: the most powerful cyclone ever recorded in history on Earth. 608 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's just an absolute monster on a 609 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:17,240 Speaker 2: scale that staggers the imagination, challenges the imagination, and it's 610 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 2: and it's it's a planet that is again it's a 611 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 2: gas giant. As we've been driving home, there is no 612 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 2: hard surface like it's we we can't even picture ourselves 613 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 2: in the midst of it like we have an easier 614 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 2: time picturing ourselves, of course, on the surface of something 615 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 2: like Venus, which in and of itself is it a 616 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,240 Speaker 2: completely alien and inhospitable environment. 617 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, but would kill you. But there's something to stand on. 618 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 2: There's at least something to stand and crumble voluntary. Yeah. Here, 619 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 2: it's it's just it's hell, it's mean Stupiter, baby. 620 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 3: But so yes. The Red Spot of Jupiter is a 621 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 3: giant high pressure storm in contrast to most of Earth's 622 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 3: low pressure storms in the atmosphere of Jupiter's southern hemisphere 623 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 3: swirling in the anti cyclonic direction. But there are a 624 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 3: bunch of interesting questions that remain, some of which we 625 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 3: have fairly good ideas of how to answer, some of 626 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 3: which are much more mysterious, and there are only some 627 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 3: kind of educated guesses questions like the one you raised, 628 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 3: how long is it going to be around? One question 629 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 3: that's interesting is how does this storm persist for so long? 630 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 3: Over time? Storms on Earth don't last that long, and 631 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 3: also the question of how did it form in the 632 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 3: first place. So I think we should come back and 633 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 3: do a part two on the Great Red Spot. 634 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 2: Rob Yeah, yeah, get into why this color. Well, you 635 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 2: might think it's the jelly filling of the planet, but 636 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 2: that's inaccurate. If you've read that somewhere, that's a lie. 637 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,720 Speaker 2: And we'll look at more plausible answers to that question 638 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 2: in the next episode. In the meantime, since we have 639 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,399 Speaker 2: several days before that episode will come out, we would 640 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,240 Speaker 2: love to hear from you if you have, especially, I'm 641 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 2: interested for examples from various science fiction films where Jupiter 642 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 2: pops up in the background, or at least is the 643 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 2: red storm is acknowledged, and then I want to know 644 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,399 Speaker 2: what year that is supposed to take place and how 645 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 2: we might therefore couch that in our very vague and 646 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 2: shifting understanding of how long this storm has lasted and 647 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 2: how long it will last. Just a reminder to everyone 648 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 2: out there that Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily 649 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 2: a science and culture podcast, with core episodes on Tuesdays 650 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,800 Speaker 2: and Thursday, short form episodes on Wednesdays and on Fridays. 651 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 2: We set aside most serious concerns to just talk about 652 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,839 Speaker 2: a weird film on Weird House Cinema. If you want 653 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 2: to follow us online, well, we have different social media accounts. 654 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 2: You can follow the podcast wherever you get your podcasts, 655 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 2: and on Instagram we're s twob yam podcast, so if 656 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 2: you use that you can find us there. 657 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 658 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us 659 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,720 Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 660 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or us to say hello, 661 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 3: you can email us at contact Stuff to Blow your 662 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 3: Mind dot com. 663 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 664 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app. 665 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:35,240 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.