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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of I Heart Radio. Hieron. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what's up, Elizabeth Donton? How you doing girl? Pretty good?

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Speaker 1: Pretty good? You know it's ridiculous. Oh yes, I've just

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Speaker 1: heard about this thing. Have you ever tried to fight

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Speaker 1: a peck of pickled pipers? Like drunk fight? Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: drunk bagpipers? No. Well, in on Febuary there was these

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Speaker 1: two cats Callum Graham and Alan gil Ruth. I'm saying

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Speaker 1: that because they're Scottish and Prounce her name. They're about

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Speaker 1: twenty five and they have been going to a Violentine's

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Speaker 1: Day wedding in Broxton, Scotland. How mu sure if you

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Speaker 1: know who that is. Anyway, afterwards they hit up with McDonald's,

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Speaker 1: McDonald's and McDonald's. This is, by the way, at three

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Speaker 1: thirty in the morning. And the trouble was, I don't

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Speaker 1: know why they have McDonald's at three thirty in the morning.

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Speaker 1: That's why it's fun over there. So anyway, the trouble

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Speaker 1: was that two men they're dressed up as Highland pipers, right,

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Speaker 1: and they have their bagpipes with them and as I

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Speaker 1: told you, it's about four am in the morning and

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Speaker 1: go into the McDonald's. They're drunk, they're pipers. They have

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Speaker 1: their bagpipes with them. Select do I think they do

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Speaker 1: a last? Did they strike up the flowers? Scotland is

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Speaker 1: just like violently reverberating throughout the whole place. They piped

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Speaker 1: up and then the other diners were like, I came

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Speaker 1: to McDonald's at four am just for my cheeseburger, not

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Speaker 1: for the music, lads. And then the pipers like, you

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Speaker 1: keep it down, so they started assaulting verbally the other diners.

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Speaker 1: The diners getting mad, turn on them. Four drunk Scots

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Speaker 1: come over and try to attack the pipers. The pipers

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Speaker 1: they're down for it. They start swinging back and they

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Speaker 1: put down four guys. These two drunk pipers put down

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Speaker 1: four other men who were roughly about their same age,

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Speaker 1: and uh, the four guys who were all like, you know,

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Speaker 1: suddenly having a much worse time, they all get arrested.

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Speaker 1: And UM, I just wanted to know, since you've been

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Speaker 1: to Scotland, what do you say at that point to

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Speaker 1: a drunk piper, like that's good, that is ridiculous, that's

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Speaker 1: very ridiculous, good job, thank you. Um you want to

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Speaker 1: know what else is ridiculous girl. I love ridiculous trying

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Speaker 1: to be two people at once. M hmm. This is

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists

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Speaker 1: and cons. It's always murder free and one ridiculous. Zaren, Elizabeth,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you today about Satan. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I have been waiting for so long for you to

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Speaker 1: say that. Who just always like, Oh, I would like

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Speaker 1: to talk about February. Oh, I'd like to talk about

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Speaker 1: spring flowers. Oh, I'd like to talk about baking doughes.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, what do you get to Satan? Satan

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Speaker 1: by the Shawn Wells recommended this story to us via email.

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Speaker 1: It's a solid, solid tip. So anyway, Satan Hale, Satan,

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Speaker 1: thank you, Sean. Let me start with this. Don Larrose

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Speaker 1: he was a minister at the first Baptist church in Maine,

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Speaker 1: New York, Main New York. That's a city in New York,

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Speaker 1: not both mainamed in Main New York. Elizabeth October from Ohio, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: Um LaRose. He gives these talks at his church about

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Speaker 1: the work of Satan. I hear they do. That is

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Speaker 1: they're always on about Satan and not long after that,

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Speaker 1: he called the cops. Wait, Satan did uh? Don Learrose says,

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Speaker 1: I'm getting threatening letters and phone calls because of my

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Speaker 1: Satan talks talking about Satan. And then suddenly now he's

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Speaker 1: got Yeah. So the first letter he gets reads, Reverend

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Speaker 1: Larrose for blasphemy against Satan. I condemn you to the

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Speaker 1: wrath of Lucifer, Son of the Morning, ruler of this

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Speaker 1: world and victor over all opposing forces. I have to say,

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Speaker 1: I have never thought of Lucifer or Satan whoever, as

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Speaker 1: the son of the Morning like I do sometime things

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Speaker 1: like a morning guy. I don't know. Maybe that's some

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Speaker 1: of the lingo and the you know. He gets another

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Speaker 1: letter that says that his blood is required for a sacrifice.

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Speaker 1: It's like an invoid. So then two other pastors from

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Speaker 1: nearby Baptist churches, they start getting threatening letters and phone calls.

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Speaker 1: Look what happened when he started giving these Satan talks,

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Speaker 1: telling you speak the Devil's name, and look what happens.

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Speaker 1: November four, Don LeRose disappears. So he did. He tells

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Speaker 1: his wife earlier that day that something odd was happening

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Speaker 1: like that you can feel it. Well, yeah, he gets

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Speaker 1: a phone call and it's telling him that one of

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Speaker 1: the congregants is having an operation, and so he has

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Speaker 1: to get to the hospital, okay for like spiritual sucker.

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Speaker 1: And he gets to the hospital and there's nothing on

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Speaker 1: the schedule, no operation. The devil played a trick on him. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Just after noon that day, the church's secretary, she sees

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Speaker 1: Don LaRose in the church parking lot as he's taking

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Speaker 1: his lunch break. I like to picture him like squatting

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Speaker 1: behind his car, really like why do you like him?

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Speaker 1: Let me finish, Let me finish, eating like a really

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Speaker 1: soggy tuna sandwich in a really animalistic way, like a

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Speaker 1: like a raccoon or a squirrel. It's just in his

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Speaker 1: fast and he was forcing into his face. He was

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Speaker 1: just like a little tiny fingers graveling, shoving the tu Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the church secretary looks like Don's having his lunching,

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Speaker 1: having his raccoon break, and that was the last time

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Speaker 1: anyone saw him. I didn't see back coming. That was

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Speaker 1: on purpose. Um. He gets reported missing the next just

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Speaker 1: after midnight the next day on November Do they have

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Speaker 1: to wait the twenty four hours? Always sent? Cool? I

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Speaker 1: heard that doesn't Um, I'm just gonna start. I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna wait forty eight hours anymore to report people missing.

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Speaker 1: Someone ten minutes late, I just call the police like

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Speaker 1: they're missing. So his wife Donlerose, not Sandwich. His wife

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Speaker 1: was named dom Rose to his wife do a w

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Speaker 1: don and do no don? Okay, his wife Don's wife.

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Speaker 1: And then some of the people from the church. They're

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Speaker 1: going around to all the hospitals trying to find out,

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Speaker 1: like is he But the thing is they tell people

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Speaker 1: we went to the hospital's not because they thought was

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Speaker 1: he was injured? Is he there praying on people? Not praying?

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Speaker 1: You're really messing with these hominys with today, creeping down

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Speaker 1: the hallway looking for an open door. He's like the

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Speaker 1: doors open. He's perched on top of the order comes in.

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Speaker 1: He's been talking about Satan too much, um, praying for people.

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Speaker 1: You know? Is he there? No, he's not. They go

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Speaker 1: driving on all the back roads looking for his car.

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Speaker 1: Is the seventies maybe he got skyjacked? So um he

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Speaker 1: had was part of the way writing the last of

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Speaker 1: his Satan lectures, called Satan's First Assault on the Earthly Realm,

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Speaker 1: that was half finished in his typewriter. So early the

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Speaker 1: morning of November six. The next day, please are just

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Speaker 1: kind of like poking around looking for stuff, just let

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Speaker 1: a little sticks. They find his ride. He has this

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Speaker 1: sweet ass ride in nineteen seventies station wagon panel on

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Speaker 1: the side, abandoned at a bus station in Binghamton, New York,

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Speaker 1: which was nearby. So they find the car at a

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Speaker 1: bus station. His family is like, you know what, he's healthy.

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Speaker 1: We haven't noticed any changes in how he's behaving. There's

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Speaker 1: there are no issues at the church, issues at home,

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Speaker 1: so there's no money issues, and they're like running down

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Speaker 1: their checklist. He hardly had any life insurance. He had

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Speaker 1: just like a little policy other than Satan. He has

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Speaker 1: no rivals, none, just Satan. Uh no debt. Says everything's happy.

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Speaker 1: The investigation they find no sign of like an affair

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Speaker 1: or anything. Um just got two kids love him. Neighbors

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Speaker 1: described him as quote the happiest man on the street.

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Speaker 1: That's always a tell, right, most of the people, right,

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Speaker 1: they're like, well, you know what, I know what happened

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Speaker 1: Satan worshippers, Yeah, probably yeah. So for ten weeks, a

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Speaker 1: hundred and forty members of the church met and prayed

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Speaker 1: daily for his return. A hundred and forty people got

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Speaker 1: together every day every day from ten weeks so two

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Speaker 1: and a half months, hundred forty people met daily. How

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Speaker 1: much time that is, Yes, that's a lot. If I

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Speaker 1: was like a contractor doing the man hours of like

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Speaker 1: this job, Yeah, I'm looking at a that's a deep investment. Um.

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Speaker 1: The church offered ten thousand dollar reward for information leading

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Speaker 1: to his safe return, but they'd only give you five

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Speaker 1: k if you could just tell him where the body was.

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Speaker 1: So that's the up it. You just got a pot

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Speaker 1: for years half And then they also hired private investigator

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Speaker 1: how much for just a body part to prove he's

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Speaker 1: still around, But they didn't disclose that they hire some

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Speaker 1: private investigators. Let me let me back up and tell

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Speaker 1: you a little bit more about Don the Rose. So

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Speaker 1: he was born in Pennsylvania in Kentucky, Pennsylvania. He grew

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Speaker 1: up in the Lancaster Lancaster Lancaster, Pennsylvania area. He said

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Speaker 1: his parents were both Pennsylvania Dutch and that as a

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Speaker 1: kid he spent a lot of Yeah exactly, he spent

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Speaker 1: a lot of time with the Pennsylvania Duchess kids. He

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Speaker 1: said that he had an accent. They do they have

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Speaker 1: that area has a nominal accent? Yeah, he had, he

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Speaker 1: wrote out like he you'll find later, he wrote out,

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Speaker 1: and finally then I've us a little kid. This is

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Speaker 1: the vey my English come out, the translation when I

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Speaker 1: was a little kid. This is the way my English

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Speaker 1: come out. So he wrote out his access. He spoke

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Speaker 1: with an accent. So he went to the Moody Bible

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Speaker 1: School in Chicago, the Moody Blues Bible School. Um, and

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Speaker 1: that's where he met his wife, Eunice, And he didn't graduate.

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Speaker 1: He left after three years before he finished, goes back

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Speaker 1: to Lancaster, works with an organization called Youth for Christ.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like a front group of up. Yeah, no, he

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Speaker 1: it's He then worked at Christian radio stations one in Indiana, Wisconsin,

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Speaker 1: Baltimore and bouncing around the Christian radio Okay, yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: just like becomes like U in ight. He moves to Syracuse,

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Speaker 1: New York, and he helps start a Christian radio station

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Speaker 1: there and becomes a station manager. His life is like

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Speaker 1: pretty straightforward boring at this point. You know, comes from

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Speaker 1: this strong Family's got like a faith based career and

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Speaker 1: his faith is strong. I'm not one to buy into

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Speaker 1: the whole Satanic panic thing. So it's unlikely that Satan

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Speaker 1: just got wind of his anti Satan servants and wanted revenge. Plus,

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Speaker 1: it's like if anyone's paying attention to this, like yeah,

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Speaker 1: and also from what I've known, and I've known a

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Speaker 1: couple of Satanist or like you know, that modern Church

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Speaker 1: of Satan where they're basically just you know, like I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say it, like cantankerous types who just

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Speaker 1: want to be like right, well, they have this approach

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Speaker 1: to that I'm like when they describe Satanism, it's all

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Speaker 1: about like, you know, being able to do whatever you want,

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Speaker 1: people care what you're doing. They're they're really care there,

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Speaker 1: seem to be really focused on religious civil liberties and

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Speaker 1: being kind of like smugly intellectual about everything. So what

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Speaker 1: happened to Don LeRose if we've ruled that out, Remember

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Speaker 1: when I said the church hired private investigators? Yes, well,

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Speaker 1: a year after he went missing mid January ninety six,

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Speaker 1: the church terminates its relationship with him and the prayer

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Speaker 1: meetings stopped. So they found him. Well, yeah, not quite.

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Speaker 1: The head deacon of the church said that their investigation

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Speaker 1: showed that Larrose had planned his own disappearance. So those

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Speaker 1: threatening letters with the cut out words, right, those were

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Speaker 1: created with words cut from the trade magazine called Broadcasting,

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Speaker 1: and yes he was. One of the other words came

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Speaker 1: from the first Baptist Church's newsletter. So he's just working

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Speaker 1: with what he knows. The people who show up on

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Speaker 1: this show because they get caught. I'm always like just

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Speaker 1: so tickled by, Like, look, you had this grand plan

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Speaker 1: and then you decided I'm just going to use the

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Speaker 1: closest available things. The only thing that's going to be

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Speaker 1: evidentiary exactly, no thoughts. Um, the letters and phone calls

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Speaker 1: that he and the others got, those would arrive on Wednesdays,

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Speaker 1: and that's the day he taught his satan us. And

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Speaker 1: then I guess what happened after he disappeared. Um, satan

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Speaker 1: stuff stopped. Yeah, the letters in the call stop. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it was also discovered that earlier that year, LaRose

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Speaker 1: had purchased carry on luggage and cash some stock, taking

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Speaker 1: a cash advance. He was likely carrying around forty hundred

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Speaker 1: bucks at the time you've been taking Portuguese lessons and

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Speaker 1: studying about Brazil, but that he had around a little

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Speaker 1: over twenty two dollars on him in Today's in Today's money,

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Speaker 1: Today's money, Zarin, Elizabeth, I want you to close your eyes, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I want you to picture it. You're not going to

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Speaker 1: any stating stuff, are you. Maybe it's the middle of

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Speaker 1: February nine. You're a cool team captain of the football team.

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Speaker 1: You're hanging out Where are you laughing? I'm sorry on

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Speaker 1: You're hanging out at home one afternoon, listening to funky

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Speaker 1: tunes on the radio Plunk Railroad. You're flipping through the

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Speaker 1: latest issue of your favorite magazine, Christianity Today. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: thought were gonna say, hot Rod that you. As you

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Speaker 1: pruse the articles, your eyes are drawn to a photo.

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Speaker 1: It's a picture of the congregation of the Plymouth Brethren Church.

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Speaker 1: I see and they're staring back at you. Is the

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Speaker 1: face of your missing pastor, Don le Rose, except he's

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Speaker 1: captioned as a man named Bruce Williams that down the road.

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Speaker 1: You're pretty sure that it's Don don the Rose. You

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Speaker 1: scamper into the den and you alert your family. You

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Speaker 1: asked them if they think it's also the missing pastor

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Speaker 1: to look at this. Your mother gasps, your father lets

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Speaker 1: out along exhale. The man your whole family has been

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Speaker 1: spending so much time and money searching for is right there,

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Speaker 1: miraculously delivered back to you to his loving flock. So

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Speaker 1: your parents they alert the other members of the church,

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Speaker 1: and those people contact the good people at Plymouth Brethren,

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Speaker 1: the wholesome Minnesotan's at Plymouth Brethren. They spring into action

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Speaker 1: and they arranged for a reunion with lar Rose's wife

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Speaker 1: and his parents. So the only problem is that LaRose

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Speaker 1: claimed to not remember anything about his past life. The

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Speaker 1: people at the church really guess what we found out

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Speaker 1: who you really are. You can't do that. No, that's

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Speaker 1: like waking up a sleepwalker. Don't do that. So he claims,

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Speaker 1: he's like, you know what, I woke up in a

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Speaker 1: box car in Minneapolis with a key in my pocket

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Speaker 1: and work that he just happened to fit a nearby building.

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Speaker 1: I woke up in a box car in Minneapolis. He

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Speaker 1: had a birth certificate for Bruce Williams on him and

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Speaker 1: because of that he was able to go get a

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Speaker 1: Social Security card. He said, my abductors gave it to me,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, wait on, my abductors, this is the

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Speaker 1: first we're hearing about this. Bruce Kent Williams, he was

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Speaker 1: a guy from New York, from an area not far

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Speaker 1: from where Larrose was living in New York, Connecticut, Maine,

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Speaker 1: New York. Yeah, he was like a twenty year old

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Speaker 1: who died in a car accidentth certificate scale completely so.

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Speaker 1: November twelfth, five before Larote, before he gets exposed LaRose,

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Speaker 1: he shows up at this Christian rescue mission in Minneapolis.

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Speaker 1: He agrees to join the Plymouth Brethren Church. He tells

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Speaker 1: the church members he doesn't know anything about the Bible.

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Speaker 1: This is what is this thing? This is so cool? Um.

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Speaker 1: He claims his parents had been killed in the car accident,

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Speaker 1: and that his wife and children had left him because

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Speaker 1: he was an alcoholic. And then he told his landlady

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Speaker 1: that he was a salesman who worked with his father

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Speaker 1: and he was spending Christmas with his parents. He's just

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Speaker 1: telling stories. Church members. They get him a job as

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Speaker 1: a dishwasher in the church, and then his family shows up.

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Speaker 1: Right after this is all exposed, his family comes. Um,

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Speaker 1: He's like, I have no idea who these people are.

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Speaker 1: Who are you again, I don't know? Yeah, their kids.

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Speaker 1: So they sent him to a psychiatric facility in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: Case closed, Danne, thanks for listening now, um, So L

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Speaker 1: Rose and his family, they're trying to piece it together.

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Speaker 1: He's given truth serum, he claims, like sodium amatal um,

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Speaker 1: and they said it's going to help him recover those memories.

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Speaker 1: But this to be a gap. He also told everyone

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Speaker 1: he was having shocked treatments get out. Yeah, but when

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Speaker 1: he gets his memory back, he's able to tell people

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Speaker 1: some stuff about his abduction. When we come back. I

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Speaker 1: don't believe he's just willing to endure this thing. When

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Speaker 1: we come back, I'll let you know what happened to

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Speaker 1: Pastoral A. Rose. I'm on the edge of my seat,

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Speaker 1: all right, Saron. When we left off, Don Lrose had

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Speaker 1: been rescued from his post abduction life in Minnesota. He's

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Speaker 1: piecing together these recovered memories. You know, he's like starting

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Speaker 1: to share his story a little bit. He claims that

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Speaker 1: on November four, six, that day that we saw him

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Speaker 1: eating the tuna, sang forcing his face like an angry raccoon,

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Speaker 1: that a man came into his office at the church

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Speaker 1: and the guy asked Larrose to come visit a buddy

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Speaker 1: of his who was sick. Yes, sure, said innocent La Rose.

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Speaker 1: I love praying over people, my second favorite thing to do.

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Speaker 1: So they hop in l Rose's car and there's a

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Speaker 1: man with a gun in there waiting in his car. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in his own car. So the two men they tell

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Speaker 1: him to drive until he gets out of town, right,

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Speaker 1: and then they forced him into a van and so

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Speaker 1: um the van. They first take him to Chicago. They

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Speaker 1: went a little trip, little road trip. You need to

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Speaker 1: see the country. Here's a bag of corn, let's enjoy yourself.

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Speaker 1: Then they go to Minneapolis and they set him free

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Speaker 1: like a little bird. Um. He said he was brainwashed

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Speaker 1: with an electric machine that was attached to his forehead.

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Speaker 1: What I know, I don't even know the movies he

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Speaker 1: must have watched throughout the fifties to come up with

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Speaker 1: this stuff. And then apparently they gave him a birth

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Speaker 1: certificate and a key to it was like a rehoming exercise,

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Speaker 1: Like he's like an injured woodland creature. Wait a second,

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Speaker 1: he's Gerald the turkey. He's been tagged and put him

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Speaker 1: in a cardboard box, tipped him. Why did this happen?

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Speaker 1: What was the purpose of it all? Why would these

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Speaker 1: people kidnap him and then release him after doing the brainwashing.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go with the reason is that they

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Speaker 1: don't exist. They're not real, and they're alive. Well, right,

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Speaker 1: so he tells everyone the story makes no sense. Everyone's

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Speaker 1: just like, Oh, we're just so glad you're home. They don't,

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Speaker 1: they're not. They told themselves the story was true, and

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Speaker 1: then they just moved on. How how do you do that?

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't know either. So the family they

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Speaker 1: decided to move on. Literally, they in nineteen seventy seven,

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Speaker 1: they moved to Hammond, Indiana. They just pull up stakes.

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Speaker 1: They first visited the town on their way back from Minneapolis,

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Speaker 1: and I guess they liked it, like, you know, we

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Speaker 1: should just live here, like really good snacks. In nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy eight, he becomes the pastor of Hessville Baptist Church,

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Speaker 1: and when he's there, he's like talking totally openly about

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Speaker 1: the kidnapping, and he talks about a few months of

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Speaker 1: his life that he spent as Bruce Kent Williams. He's

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Speaker 1: like he was delivered back to his family. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: would make sense. He claims at the time that he

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Speaker 1: kept talking to police, like he kept trying to contact

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Speaker 1: law enforcement and asking them to investigate what happened. And

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Speaker 1: he then said, well that I was told if I

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Speaker 1: called them again, I'd be arrested for filing a false complaint. So, Zaren,

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Speaker 1: are you buying this story? I'm actually trying to return

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Speaker 1: it to the store. Someone brought it over as a gift.

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Speaker 1: They left it here and I'm like, can I return this?

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Speaker 1: So what is this deal? It's has the worst lies

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Speaker 1: and he's playing everyone like they're idiots. Well, here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: He amps up the drama, Laren, I have really bad

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Speaker 1: news for you. Don the rose done? Did it again? June?

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Speaker 1: He disappears again. Are you kidding me? He tells his wife. Listen,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna pop next door to the church. I

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Speaker 1: need to visit someone over there. No big you know,

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Speaker 1: Except he never came back. He's like a sax player

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Speaker 1: in the depression. What is going on with this? Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: so the night before when he was giving a sermon.

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Speaker 1: This is according to the church congregation. He is giving

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Speaker 1: a sermon, he suddenly stops and looks up at the

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Speaker 1: back of the room. No one else sees anything, and

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Speaker 1: then later he said that he saw one of the

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Speaker 1: Satanists through the window. So he's again with the Satanist thing.

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Speaker 1: Every time this boogeyman he's pulled. Everyone's like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: the state just like they don't they It's like a

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Speaker 1: shortcut where they stopped thinking. Right. So the congregation, they're

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Speaker 1: like concern when he doesn't show up for the regular

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Speaker 1: Monday morning meeting and they report him missing. And apparently

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Speaker 1: he has been working on a quote yet to be

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Speaker 1: published book about the evils of Satan and that manuscript

365
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Speaker 1: was missing too. Zaron, this is like last time with

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Speaker 1: the letter. So Larrose later when he was married to

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Speaker 1: the same first is going through this again again. So

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Speaker 1: he later on he said that he was told he

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Speaker 1: could either I don't know, I feel he's told that

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Speaker 1: he could either stay in Hammond and quote watch my

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Speaker 1: family die a painful death in front of my eyes,

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Speaker 1: or I could turn myself over to these people and

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Speaker 1: I would live what what? So he was worried that

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Speaker 1: the police wouldn't believe him that he was getting harassed

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Speaker 1: by Satanist again very good reason. So he did what

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Speaker 1: any rational person who wants to protect his family would do.

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Speaker 1: He hired some Satanists. Now he went to a nearby town.

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Speaker 1: He bought a bicycle, put on a backpack, and rode away.

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Speaker 1: He biked his way out of this whole thing. I'm

380
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Speaker 1: just gonna wheel on a squeaky ring. In two thousand

381
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Speaker 1: and seven, he told the press, quote, what happened in

382
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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, Whether it was right or wrong, what I did,

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Speaker 1: I did it under threat for the safety of my

384
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Speaker 1: family and for our own survival. None of us would

385
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Speaker 1: probably be here today if I had not done that,

386
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Speaker 1: and there would be some bodies in some graves. Does

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Speaker 1: bank and tie his own shoes to just fell grow

388
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Speaker 1: two thousand seven, Keep that date in mind. So he's

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Speaker 1: saying that, you know, look, I didn't have a choice.

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Speaker 1: He said that after he left Indiana, after we rode

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Speaker 1: out of Indiana his back. Now he moved from down

392
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Speaker 1: to town, he goes to Des Moines, Omaha, Denver. Cheyenne's

393
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 1: working odd jobs. Right. Um, he has a website, but

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Speaker 1: we'll get to that. But the two the two thousand

395
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: two version of it, which isn't he's taken this part down.

396
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Speaker 1: But I guess earlier this year and March he was writing, quote,

397
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Speaker 1: I have delivered newspapers over a seventy three mile route

398
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Speaker 1: each day, worked as an investigator of workmen's camp fraud

399
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: cases and helped build the inside of Dollar General stores

400
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 1: and do the initial stocking of the shelves, all while

401
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 1: operating my farm just outside Seligman, Missouri. None of this

402
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: is true, right, No? No? At one point, what is

403
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,719
Speaker 1: he trying to get? He's not even like gaining a

404
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 1: lot from this. He gets like a bike in a

405
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: new lease on just gets out. At one point during

406
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 1: his journeys, he said that three men in suits approached

407
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 1: him and asked if he'd seen the man in a

408
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: photo that they showed him, and it was a photo

409
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: of him, and he yeah, and he said he had

410
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: long hair and a long beard, so they didn't recognize him.

411
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Speaker 1: He's like, no, I don't know who that is, and

412
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 1: then wheeled on. Boy. So once again though he's he's

413
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 1: using Bruce Kent Williams identity. And so when he got

414
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Speaker 1: brought back the first time, he kept the Social Security card. Um.

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00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: But now he's just going by Ken. You can call

416
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: me Ken. He goes to northwest Arkansas in the early eighties. Now,

417
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: remember that the real Bruce Kent Williams from a car accident. Yeah,

418
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: born in eight died in a car accident. Also killed

419
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Speaker 1: in that accident was a young man named Donald Fergano.

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Speaker 1: Now apparently LaRose at one point also claimed to be

421
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Speaker 1: Donald Fergano. What is up with this car accident? Well,

422
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: I think he read about it in the paper probably

423
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: and was like, I'll just pull both. My name is Don.

424
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: He ordered both birthic so I got six seven going

425
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: right now? He and then sometimes he claimed that he

426
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: worked as a salesman for the Donald Fergano company. We

427
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: have to start. Oh, I'm going to get business cards.

428
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: Need so starting around one LaRose slash Williams. He worked

429
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 1: for seven years at the radio station k A m

430
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: O and Rogers Arkansas. He does these long stints. Oh yeah.

431
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: Then he moved to Centerton, Arkansas. And where's unite? Unis

432
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: is at home, like with a candle in the window,

433
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: just like I'll wait for you, honey. Um Centerton, Arkansas.

434
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: He moves there in the mid eighties. He told people

435
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 1: that he was a former chief executive from Chicago Advertig,

436
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: a huge Chicago advertising who just happens to relocate to

437
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: this town of people. I got tired of the past life.

438
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: LaRose slash. Williams then gets married six he marries Patricia. Okay,

439
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: so let me clarify that's his second wife, will still

440
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: being married. I'm worried about un too. He worked at

441
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: a local radio station ku r M as a popular

442
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: news anchor, K you r M. That's an unfortunate for me.

443
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: And he was a talk show host okay. He later

444
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: wrote advice to people on how to live best. I'm

445
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: sure he later wrote, quote, the most difficult question I

446
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: have been asked is why did I not contact my family.

447
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: I did try to keep up with where they were,

448
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: even driving to Indiana and Pennsylvania on two separate occasions. However,

449
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: I feared making any contact, believing that there was always

450
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 1: the possibility that it might lead whoever was responsible for

451
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: my abduction in Maine, New York directly to me and

452
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: to them. I would want to be with my family.

453
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: I love them, I do, but I'm really worried that

454
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: this unnamed person no one has ever seen might harm them.

455
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: And you have to Understandsion. Is he still sticking to

456
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 1: the abduction story? Not is he sticking to it, but

457
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: he is hinging everything. He's like, oh yeah, this is

458
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: I'm these are good decisions I'm making. He's arguing, unbelievable. Yeah,

459
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: this is the rational, believable choice. Unice declares him dead,

460
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: has him declared? Unice is like he left. I don't

461
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: know where he is, he said to me. And then

462
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: she eventually remarried, moved on with her life. In lar

463
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: Rose as ken Williams, he went on this ten day

464
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: trip to Israel that he said, quote changed my life

465
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: and my entire way of understanding the Bible holds effects

466
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: like oh I saw the side seeing Bethlehem in my

467
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: own eyes. Yeah, suddenly it was like, you know, the

468
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: angels saying two thousand one lar Rose as ken Williams,

469
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: he gets appointed mayor of Centerton, Arkansas population appointed. Why

470
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: was he appointed? I was curious about that. Well, I'm

471
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: glad you asked. Why did he get appointed Elizabeth Center

472
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: to his previous mayor, Mike Wakefield. He got busted for vandalism,

473
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: public intoxication, and resisting arrest, and then he took a

474
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: plee deal and then he resigned. I wonder, well, I'll

475
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: tell you. I can tell you the whole long drama

476
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: with that. So Wakefield apparently was like the first mayor

477
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: of the town who wasn't part of the same extended

478
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: family that had been running things for that time. So

479
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: the first thing Wakefield did as mayor was changed the

480
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: locks on City Hall because he wanted to take inventory

481
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: of the property before the Water and Sewer Commission removed

482
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: money or items that didn't belong to them. Yeah, so

483
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: the commission was formed only after Wakefield had defeated the

484
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: incumbent mayor, Sherman Kenyon, who was also related to some

485
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: of these commission members. So he's on his way out,

486
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: He's like, all right, water and Sewer whatever, we'll call

487
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: you this, go in fix this. Wakefield claimed that, Um,

488
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: when he went in, like on his first day, he

489
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: goes into the office, there's a calendar. His first day

490
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: is January one, and they had written doomsday on that

491
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: on the calendar. So he changes the locks. The town

492
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: council responds by changing the bocks again and barring him

493
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: from entering the building except for during business hours. Their

494
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: own mayor, the Water and Steward Council power is locking

495
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: city Hall from the mayor who has been appointed. Oh no,

496
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: he was the one who was elected, right, Yeah, he

497
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: was elected. So then Wakefield, like he kept firing the

498
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: police chief and then yeah, and then city council, the

499
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: city council with then hiring back. It was like a

500
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: back and forth, back and forth. April two thousand, Wakefield

501
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: gets arrested for a d w I and then he

502
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: later pleads guilty to it. Oh he actually wasn't. And

503
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: then later that month that he played guilty. On Halloween night,

504
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: he vandalized an opponent's campaign sign while drunk. I think

505
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: he was driven to drink by this. He allegedly spray

506
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: painted the word family on the sign for an alderman

507
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: who was running for re election, and then apparently yeah,

508
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: because they're all like in the same family, had all

509
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: the you know, extended family, his family family. You need

510
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: to work on your tag Yeah, that's his tagging name.

511
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: So he gets charged with criminal mischief, public intoxication, resisting arrest.

512
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: He pleads guilty um and resigns, and that paves the

513
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: way for Williams Uh later LaRose slash Williams. He gets

514
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: properly elected and then like reelected again and again. Okay,

515
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: so he's good at his job. The correct people like him. Yeah,

516
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: he's just he fits right in. He does what they

517
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: want until he bicycles away from town. Let's let's take

518
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: a break and chill out to some cool ads, and

519
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: then when we come back, I'm gonna let you know

520
00:31:41,360 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: how things went for old Mr Mayor. Thank you all right, Zaren?

521
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: What's going on? It's now two thousand seven. I need

522
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: to follow my taxes? Okay? Yeah? Don LaRose a k A.

523
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: Ken Williams. He's mayor of the boomtown of Centerton, Arkansas.

524
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: Did you know that Centerton is located in the quote

525
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: rapidly growing Northwest Arkansas Region and that region is also

526
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: known as the n w A region Northwest n w A.

527
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: He's repp in the n w A in two thousand

528
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,479
Speaker 1: and seven. One of Larose's family members thousand miles from

529
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:40,719
Speaker 1: Centerton and running. It's just poking around online, tootln's researching

530
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: the LaRose family on the internet. And have I told

531
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: you how much I love genealogy slipping? Yeah you have.

532
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: And I've tried not to listen, but you keep branding.

533
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: I'm not going to stop. I'm relenting this another one time.

534
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: Like I can't get with the DNA testing. Have you

535
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: done the DNA testing? No? I can't, But I can

536
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: get with old documents, right, I like that and my

537
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: family's genealogy so on my mother's side and on my

538
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: father's side partially. So I have a pretty good sense

539
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: that I need to do the DNA because we had

540
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: a sense, right, I like the I like all the

541
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: old documents, and like they're constantly putting up new scans

542
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: and these things, so like you know, new things are

543
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: popping up. Um, but you know ship manifests and saying

544
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: asylum records that's my chance. Um, well there's some like

545
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: there's something that I want to look at, but I

546
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: actually have to go places in person to like archive

547
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: records like insane asylum records. I'm not kidding. So for

548
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: the lar Rose family member, though, all they had to

549
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: do is aggressive googling. You know, they discovered Don the

550
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: Rose dot com. It's not a super common name, right,

551
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: Don the Rose Williams, what are you doing to me? Man? Well,

552
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: you know, Don the Rose nowhere to be found in

553
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: real life. But there's a whole website about him because

554
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: they wanted to keep his influencing, not like an unsolved

555
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: mysteries thing where they're like, whatever happened to do? It's

556
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: his website. It's this man it's his website for his

557
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,720
Speaker 1: books and his letters and stuff. So the family member

558
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 1: looks up who owns this website? Right, it's a guy

559
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: named Ken Williams in Arkansas. Yea. And they're like, well,

560
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: what other things is this Ken Williams own. Oh, he

561
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: owns ken Williams Ministries dot org. Guess what the guy

562
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: at the first time. But the two websites are like

563
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: identical except for different color schemes, but like the layout

564
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: is the same. It's amazing. He's totally lazy. So the

565
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: family members they call the local paper instead of the police.

566
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: They're like, we're just gonna get this. Actually the story

567
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: at this time, tell them about the discovery boom story

568
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: takes off, So they called the Benton County Record. They

569
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: pulled the most amazing Mike Wallace level journalistic bust on this,

570
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 1: and they're the radust. I love these, Okay. So November

571
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: two thousand seven, three reporters from the Benton County Daily

572
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: Record they confronted the man that they believed to be

573
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: Williams about the Rose connection. Right, initially, he denies it.

574
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: One of the reporters was Jennifer Turner. Quote, I said,

575
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: I believe you were Don the Rose turner said. She said,

576
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: she told him there's no way around it. We're going

577
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: to run a story. So she They put him on

578
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 1: the spot. Right, They knew they were onto something. They

579
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 1: keep investigating. He denies it. They pulled up old news reports,

580
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: they find photos. They stayed on the story. They go

581
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: back to his office the next day at the mayor's office.

582
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: But he has to show up certain places. They know

583
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 1: he's going to be at the city council meeting. They're

584
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: they're right there. They show him the evidence. They tell him,

585
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 1: all right, go online, type in Don the Rose dot com.

586
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: They make him open the website right there. He does it.

587
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: He looks at it. He's like, anything about this, It's

588
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: not me. And then that that evening he calls them

589
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: to the reporters. He calls him as like, come over

590
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: to my house. Let's talk. So the reporters are all right,

591
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 1: they show up at his house. He says, I am

592
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 1: Don the Rose, I am Ken Williams, I'm every woman.

593
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: I contain multitudes um. He said he told him everything,

594
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: but did he did not? So he he said that

595
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: he built Don the Rose dot com to bring attention

596
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: to his story and his case for the cops. Yeah,

597
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: for the cops. And then he told reporters that because

598
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: authorities hadn't believed him, his quote biggest frustration was that

599
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 1: the system did not work and actually worked against me.

600
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: He's the victim of all. So he said. He feared

601
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 1: that his confession might put his family in danger. Of course,

602
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 1: his second wife, Pat, she said she loved him and

603
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: she'd stand by him. She said, quote He'll always be ken,

604
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: So she's fine whatever, wait, okay, all right, yeah, so

605
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 1: um whatever, he's like, I'm ken, I'm don just deal

606
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: with it. November twenty one, two thousand seven, he confesses.

607
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: After the article comes out uh LaRose slash Williams, he

608
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: resigns as mayor of Centerton. He says he doesn't have

609
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: the credibility to do it anymore. His resignation letter he

610
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: signed with both of his names. I'm going to be

611
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: two people. He told papers though, that he wanted it.

612
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: He's going to stick in town. He's not going to

613
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: move quote maybe even serve on city boards, commissions or

614
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 1: in a volunteer position like he's loving this. His father,

615
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 1: Don's father still alive. Um was then living in a

616
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: senior home facility. He said he had no interest in

617
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,919
Speaker 1: talking to his son, wanted nothing to do with him,

618
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 1: but then later changed his mind, and then the two

619
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: of them spoke on Thanksgiving that year. I have no

620
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: idea what they spoke about. LaRose slash. Williams also wanted

621
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: to see his two daughters. I hope they did not.

622
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: Unice was apparently quote embittered about the situation. I think

623
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: that's an understate. But he has a grandson that he

624
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: had never met and who said quote wasn't embarrassed by it,

625
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: and that you know, quote, I'd like to talk to him.

626
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: So he's got a grandson who's like, yeah, I'll give

627
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: crazy Grandpa. I mean, I have to give these people

628
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 1: a lot of credit for being so forgiving and a

629
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: living according to their faith because they are. Yeah. So

630
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: the grandson told the local Indiana press, quote, I don't

631
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 1: know if he's crazy or if he's lying to everybody

632
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: about this satanic attack and all these threats. I don't

633
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: know if he just didn't want to pay child support

634
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: and disappeared or what happened. So you got this chill grandson.

635
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: He's like, whatever, I'll hear about no word from the

636
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: daughters that like good riddens units is just Unice has

637
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: been through a lot, so she got a new man.

638
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: Even though LaRose slash william had been using a dead

639
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: man's Social Security number. Since he'd been contributing to Social Security,

640
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: he was still entitled to receive benefits when he retired.

641
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: He gets Ken Williams benefits and he gets the city pension.

642
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 1: Wait does he also get his own? Does he get

643
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: to ships? Probably? Yeah? Late two thousand seven, early two

644
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: thousand eight, he gets hired back by his former employer

645
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 1: k u r M KERM KERM Radio. Listen into KERM Radio.

646
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: Can they give him the five to seven am First

647
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: Hour and breakfast show slots? He gets the drive time slot?

648
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? Now? If you go to Ken

649
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 1: Williams Ministries dot org, which is still live, he says

650
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: he retired from KERM in what is he doing now?

651
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: I'll tell you getting ready to leave a wife. May

652
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: two thousand eight, he changed his name legally to Bruce

653
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: ken Williams was like, I've got more monogrammed robe. In

654
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,720
Speaker 1: August of two tho he does get charged with second

655
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: degree forgery for fraudulently signing various documents quote including tax

656
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: returns government documents and election documents between two thousand and

657
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight using the name Bruce Kent. I

658
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: wonder if they can get him on that. That's a

659
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: serious that's like, you know, like if you're doing mail fraud,

660
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: like you'll get twenty years on some vote stuff. That's

661
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: so the charge was punishable up to ten years in prison,

662
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: and they waived his bail because he wasn't considered a

663
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: flight risk, although did they take his bike. So he

664
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: initially he pleads not guilty, but then he changes his

665
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: flea to guilty for fraudulently signing government documents with an

666
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: assumed name. And the prosecutor in the case said, quote,

667
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: we really don't know why he did this. He does.

668
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: His own attorney said, quote, in my almost twenty three

669
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: years of practice, this is one of the most unusual

670
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: cases I've ever handled. The thing that gets me is,

671
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: you know what the time we talked about these criminals,

672
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: and there's a clear thing they're trying to get or

673
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 1: to get away from, or too there is some gain

674
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: or some loss. In this case, there is nothing that

675
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: I can hear other than he just got away for

676
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: a moment. I mean, like bro you're thought of a

677
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: vacation and they have these things where you can get

678
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 1: away for your friend doesn't change his life. He just

679
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: goes and get repeat. Yeh. So he didn't have a

680
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: criminal history. So he gets sentenced to five years probation,

681
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: hundred hours of community service and in fine and costs.

682
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: So he asked, He's like, hey, can I do my

683
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 1: community service um in a park at a park in

684
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: Centerton And the city council is like, no, get out

685
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 1: of here, dude. They won't let him do it. So

686
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 1: he can request at like after five years probation, right,

687
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: he could ask to have his his record expunge because

688
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: he didn't have any priors. I don't know if that

689
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: ever happened, Like I said earlier though both so I

690
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 1: told you right. Ken William's website still active. The bio

691
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: um on the website for Ken Williams mentions nothing of

692
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: his life is don the Rose zero zero mentions, zero reference.

693
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: It's really weird, like he has a bio about what

694
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: he's done in his life. I'm just so confused and

695
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: what motivates behavior with a very little payoff. Yeah, he

696
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: does tell the story of his retirement. He said he

697
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 1: was putting a roof on his barn, and that he

698
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: was in pain like as he was working and kept

699
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: getting worse and worse, and then it didn't go away.

700
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: And they later discovered that he had an inoperable malignant

701
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: tumor on his spine. So he had radiation and that helped.

702
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: But they're like, you know, it's not going away, it's

703
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: still going to grow. So then some people from Colombia

704
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: came to his church and because there's a huge Hispanic

705
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: population at the church, and the lady prayed over him

706
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 1: and the tumor disappeared. That's what he said. That's what

707
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,399
Speaker 1: he said. What did the doctor said? Web site says

708
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,399
Speaker 1: he's still cancer for he said his doctor said he's

709
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: cancer free. All right, fine, I believe it. Whatever. But

710
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: there's also don LeRose dot com that's still active and

711
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: it's it's changed. You can look on the way back

712
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: machine and see earlier versions. And I thought you were

713
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 1: gonna say that the cancer tumor is like putting pressure

714
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: on his spine and making him weird, like some people

715
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 1: have tumors in their brains and the defensive humor changes

716
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: where I thought this was going Nope, No, he's just like, well,

717
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: the Lord took my tumor um. Don Le Rose website

718
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,879
Speaker 1: still active. He says on there that he's an old

719
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: man and he needs donations for all the books that

720
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: he provides for free on his site. He's written all

721
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: these books and he puts them up there, and he's like,

722
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: if you like him, download him, but you gotta, you know,

723
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: give me a little donation, you know whatever, cash your

724
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: money order, um. And he has a Don L. Rose

725
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,240
Speaker 1: email on address on there, and on the Ken Williams

726
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: there's a Ken Williams email dress. Did you write to them?

727
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: Send an email to email. I'm so scared, dear Don L.

728
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: Rose to send it to Kenny Williams. I'm Don Le

729
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,439
Speaker 1: Rose to him. You're taking Don the Rose. Apparently he's

730
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: still out there living in the liminal space between two identities. Well,

731
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,399
Speaker 1: I've got a new name for signing into hotels, Don

732
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: the Rose. What what is that? Your ridiculous takeaway? What's

733
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: your takeaway is faith is a hell of a drug.

734
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 1: In this regard, this man is just like apparently willing

735
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: to forgive himself all over the place. I have to

736
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: assume that's what allows him to do. This is like

737
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: he's willing to expunge his own record. Well it's not him, right, okay.

738
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: On his website, UM, here's what I think is interesting

739
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: about him. Um, he talks on his website. This is

740
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: on the Ken Williams like so he he talks on

741
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: his website a lot about love and sin and redemption.

742
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: He says he's going to explain the Bible thing. Yeah so,

743
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 1: in his life he kind of confesses to everything he did,

744
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 1: but not completely. It is obvious to everyone he was

745
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: not abducted. He won't let that go. He's maintaining that.

746
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: Yeah so, But on his website he mentions none of

747
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff on this website, But his discourse

748
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: about love seems to be solely between an individual and God.

749
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: What do you mean, Well, there's there's nothing about your

750
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: love of God, and no mention about love for fellow

751
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: living things or doing good works for others. Nothing. And

752
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: the talk about redemption is only about making things right

753
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: with God, not other people. Let me read to you

754
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: from his website. Salvation is not like a pardon. A

755
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,439
Speaker 1: pardon simply forgives you of the consequences of your deed.

756
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 1: God's salvation is much more than that. When God cleanses

757
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: you with the blood of the Lamb, your sin is

758
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: completely eradicated. Before God, you become as though you have

759
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 1: never sinned. You are made holy. That doesn't mean that

760
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,479
Speaker 1: you will be perfect from that point on. It does

761
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: mean that you are now a member of God's family,

762
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: and as a member, you can come to your redeemer

763
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: and ask for forgiveness for those times and those things

764
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 1: which are short of the mark. A constant study of

765
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: the Bible will help you understand more and more of

766
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: what God has for you individually. He does have a

767
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: plan for you, both now and an eternity. I think

768
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,240
Speaker 1: I don't understand now. Finally, the issue he's mistaken God's

769
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 1: family for m Vin Diesel's family and fast and furious

770
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 1: where that He's going to forgive you and all can be.

771
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: You can live in this insane world, do whatever you

772
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: want and then everything's forgiven because family, family. Well, it

773
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: sounds an awful lot to me. Like he feels that

774
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: since he's gotten it right with God, everything is cool

775
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 1: exactly like that he made a vowed a unite and

776
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: they created human beings together. That doesn't he doesn't care,

777
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: I mean he has He's kind of yeah, but he

778
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: sticks with that whole. Do you think he stands to

779
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: get God's attention? Maybe, but he abandoned his entire family.

780
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,919
Speaker 1: He is so cold. Yeah, so I think that's something

781
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: he maybe needs to take up with God. That's something

782
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,919
Speaker 1: you gotta get right with that one. It's just such

783
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 1: a weird He's this pastor. He thinks he's directing people,

784
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 1: but this is this is a very toxic, ego driven

785
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: version of whatever he's got going on. There's not a

786
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 1: lot of Christian love. And I'm fairly certainly if Jesus

787
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 1: came back to Earth and he was like talking to

788
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 1: Don the Rows, He's like, look, man, I think you've

789
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 1: made some misunderstandings of my work. And then Don the

790
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: Rose slash Williams would be like, look a Satanist and

791
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: then haven't turned around. That's it. My mom will getting

792
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: that cross. That's all I like that. I don't have

793
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: anything else about this. You can find us online at

794
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime on both Twitter and Instagram. You know what,

795
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 1: if you want to email us, go ahead, Ridiculous Crime

796
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com and being figure out how to

797
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: telegram us and do it. Yeah, carry your pigeon and

798
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: then other than that, just tune in next time. Ridiculous

799
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zarin Burnett, produced

800
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,760
Speaker 1: and edited by Regional Director of Strategic Satanic Kidnappings Dave Kuston.

801
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: Research is by escape bicycle vendor Mercer Bran. The theme

802
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: song is by local radio personalities Thomas Lee and Travis Dutton.

803
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: Executive producers are Dogged Investigative reporters Ben Bollon and Noel Brown.

804
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: We did Quiet Say It one more time? We dequeous.

805
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeart Radio. For more

806
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: podcasts to my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

807
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.