WEBVTT - #155 Jason Flom with Marilyn Mulero 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:05.440 On May eleventh, nineteen ninety two, Marilyn Malara was with 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:07.840 a group of people mourning a friend who had recently 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.920 been killed by the Latin Kings. The group split up, 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:13.320 and Marilyn went out with a friend and another mourner 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:16.720 who they both had met that night, Jackie Montanez, who 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:20.680 had her own sordid history with that gang. At around midnight, 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:23.360 the three were driving near Humboldt Park when two guys 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:25.759 who knew Jackie called out to her at a light. 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:28.360 They all agreed to meet in the park to hang out. 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.240 It turned out that these two men were members of 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:34.159 the Latin Kings. Jackie lured one of them into the 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.000 bathroom to make out, and when he stopped to urinate, 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.360 she shot him in the back of the head. When 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.640 she emerged alone, the other man asked about his friend, 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:46.480 and Jackie shot him too. Marilyn and her friend were 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:50.560 caught completely unaware and panicked. They fled the scene. Then 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.440 the case fell into the hands of two of Chicago's 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.400 now most infamous detectives, who used incentivized snitches, false eyewitness testimony, 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:02.240 and coercive interrogation tactics to pull Marilyn and her friend 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.200 into a case that should have rested squarely on Jackie 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:10.000 mount and as his shoulders, then Marilyn's hired attorney inexplicably 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:13.440 advised her to plead guilty while getting nothing in return 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:17.639 from the prosecutors, sending her directly to death row. News 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:20.040 of this case would reach then twenty nine year old 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:23.240 law professor Justin Brooks, and it drove him to uproot 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:25.880 his life and begin a two and a half decade 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.560 long quest to expose the misdeeds of those detectives and 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:33.760 have the evidence of Marilyn's innocence finally heard. She was 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:38.880 released on April eighth, twenty twenty. This is Wrongful Conviction 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:56.320 with Jason Blom Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.640 Today we have an episode for you that is deeply 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:03.920 person to me, but it's even more personal to our 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:07.440 second guest today, Justin Brooks. He is the founder and 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:11.680 director of the California Innocence Project. Justin Welcome back to 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:17.040 Wrongful Conviction. Always the pleasure, Chason, thank you, And I'm 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:21.000 about to introduce one of the most extraordinary people and 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:25.760 stories that I've ever met or heard. And when I 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.359 say that Marilyn Malaro, who I'm going to introduce in 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:32.240 a second was sentenced to death in the nineties in 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.680 Illinois after pleading guilty to a crime she didn't commit. 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:42.920 So her attorney did such a terrible job that he 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.560 actually resigned from the bar after the trial and became 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:50.640 a priest. Marilyn, I'm so sorry that you have to 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:52.519 be here because of what you went through, but I'm 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:54.600 so happy you're here, So welcome to the show. 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:55.840 Thanks for having me. 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:00.160 So this whole insane story began around midnight on May 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.560 eleventh and into May twelfth, nineteen ninety two, when two 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:05.600 members of the Latin Kings were shot and killed in 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:09.480 and around a bathroom in Chicago's Humble Park. But Maryland, 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:12.799 I want to go back even before that, you were 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.320 just twenty one years old. What was your life like 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:18.680 before all of this happened. 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:24.240 Well, I was a mother of two. I used to 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:28.160 work two jobs, live with my brother. I sold drugs 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.679 at the time to help pay for the bills. I mean, 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.640 a single woman of mother too. Was very difficult to 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:37.520 pay for bills on your own, so I had to 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:41.320 choose another method to bring some sort of income, and 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.840 stelling marijuana and concaine was one of them. 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:47.760 So you really had three jobs, two legal ones and 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:50.720 one in the shadows. But no judgment here. I'm not 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.800 a religious person, but let them who was without sincast 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:57.960 the first stone and Justin, can you take us back 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:02.360 to what happened and how the hell they decided to 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:06.520 focus on an innocent woman when in fact they could 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.040 have and probably did know all along who the real 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.880 perpetrator was of this awful crime. Yeah. 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:14.720 So, I mean, this case, Jason, and we can get 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:16.880 into each one of these elements as we go along, 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:21.280 involved every cause of wrongful conviction that you discussed on 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:27.680 this podcast. This case involved a false confession, false informant testimony, 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:33.840 a bad identification, a bad lawyer, bad judges, and bad cops. 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:38.080 So pretty much all the causes of wrongful conviction occurred together. 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:42.159 It was the perfect storm which led Maryland to spend 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.920 twenty seven years in prison for a crime she didn't commit. 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:48.960 This case was such an insane injustice that it actually 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:51.440 led you to give up your life as you knew 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:53.960 it and found an innocence project. Right. 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:58.760 Yeah, this case changed my life. I had heard about it. 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.600 I was at the time in Michigan teaching law school, 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.520 and I read in the newspaper about this young woman, 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:08.159 Marilyn Molara, who'd been sentenced to death on a plea bargain. 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.400 And when I read that, I thought, how could she 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:15.000 possibly been sentenced to death on a plea bargain. It's 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:18.719 a plea, but it's certainly not a bargain, and you 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:23.360 know there's supposed to be some kind of negotiated result 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.640 where you get a lesser sentence as a result of 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:28.560 you giving up all the rights that you have to 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.440 give up in a plea agreement, and you're giving up 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:33.680 your right to trial, you're giving up a lot of 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:37.159 your ap pellet rights, and you know you're going directly 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:40.000 to jail. And with her, she went directly to death row. 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:44.160 And I was so shocked by it that I've found 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.640 out more about her case. I ended up meeting with 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:50.280 her on death row. She was a scheduled for execution, 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:55.240 and I remember the day vividly, one twenty five years ago, 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.160 sitting across from Maryland and saying, how did you end 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:03.640 up here? And she told me this remarkable story about 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.960 how this lawyer who had never handled a case like 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:10.200 this in the past had no training on death penalty litigation, 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:15.680 never negotiated anything with the prosecution, pled her straight up 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.880 to the homicide case, and the result was she was 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:22.200 sentenced to death. And then she said the most amazing thing, 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:26.120 which is and I'm innocent. And so I went back 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.080 to the law school where I was teaching, and I 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:30.880 told my students her story, and I said, you know 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.360 who wants to help me out on this case? And 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:38.360 four brave souls raised their hands, and we started investigating it, 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.480 and everywhere we looked, we found out that she was 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.279 innocent and that her case was a complete fabrication. 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.159 Of course, you know, when you first told me about 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:50.839 this case, or however I learned about it, I became 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.200 obsessed with it as well, and kept me up many nights, 0:06:54.360 --> 0:07:00.240 and I was so thrilled when it finally resolved. You know, 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:01.800 it was nice for you and I'd have something else 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:06.200 to talk about. Okay, So let's go back to May eleventh, 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.840 nineteen eighty two. Maryland's out driving around with Jackie Montez 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.560 and another friend around midnight or something, the night before 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:17.000 a mutual friend's funeral who had been killed by the 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.760 Latin Kings. They were near Humboldt Park, and they had 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:24.160 two guys who knew Jackie, Jimmy Cruz and Hector Reyes. 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.760 You know, these guys saw these three girls and they 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.760 started chatting at the light, and all three women went 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.200 to Humboldt Park with these two guys who remembers the 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.720 Latin King. Jackie went into the bathroom with one of 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:40.400 the men. They were making out in the bathroom. He 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.800 turned around to urinate, and she pulled a gun out 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.280 and shot him in the back of the head. She 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:51.080 then leaves the bathroom. And then there's two stories. The 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:55.320 story that convicted Marylyn, which we ultimately proved to be false, 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.440 was that Jackie walked over handed the gun to Maryland 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:03.320 and then she shot the second victim. What we now 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:07.360 know happened was Jackie came out of the bathroom, the 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:11.640 other guy said, you know, where's my homeboy? She makes 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:15.000 a joke about it. She laughs and says he's taken 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:18.840 a shit. He turns around, and she walks over and 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:20.600 shoots him in the back of the head in the 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:21.760 exact same manner. 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.320 Wait, so I have a couple of questions, but let's 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.440 just start with this. How did they all not hear 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:30.640 the gunshot from inside the bathroom. 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.880 Yeah, we actually had at former homicide detective go to 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:38.360 the park because I never understood why the guy outside 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:42.400 wouldn't be fully alerted to what happened. But apparently because 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:46.240 it was a low caliber bullet and it was a 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:50.120 contact killing, meaning the gun was actually on the back 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.000 of his head. His head actually acted as a sort 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.280 of silencer, so there wasn't a lot of noise, even 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:57.920 though it was a tiled bathroom. 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:01.120 Do we know why Jackie did what she did? 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.800 So? What Jackie has has said over the years is 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.839 her motivation was a friend of theirs was killed by 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.080 the Latin Kings, But there's also been a lot of 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.480 talk about that she was doing it to rise up 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.600 in the gang, to be seen as someone who would 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:18.520 do something like this. 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:20.800 So what did Marilyn do when the shooting happened. 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.280 Well, Marilyn and the other girl are in shock, they 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:28.360 see what happened, They run, and of course you know 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.000 when you run, it's going to be equated to guilt. 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:35.760 Neither Marilyn nor her other friend knew what Jackie Mantins 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:39.240 was up to that night, and then ultimately they're arrested 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.880 walking out of this funeral that we've been talking about 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:45.319 for their friend who'd been killed by the Latin Kings. 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.320 And Marylyn, can you give us just from your perspective. 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:53.000 So here you were a mother of two, you're snatched 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.600 off the street after this funeral, and you and fifteen 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.440 year old Jackie Mount and as the woman, the girl 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.040 really who actually committed this crime, were brought down to 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:05.320 the Latin Kings and detective I can believe they did this, 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:09.080 and detectives tell them, quote unquote, these are the two 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.800 girls that killed your homeboys, which put you at immediate 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:15.760 and grave risk. It threatens to make your kids into orphans. 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.679 And then the cops bring you down to the station, 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:24.520 deny you legal representation, interrogate you for around twenty hours 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:28.720 without any sleep, and ultimately you signed a statement that 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:29.640 they had prepared. 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.880 It was a terrible moment. We had just left the funeral. 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:38.040 The detectives just came straight and arrested Montanesse and myself. 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:42.760 Then they parked. They received a phone call. Once they 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:44.760 hung up with the phone call, they took us to 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.400 Humble Park. We sat there for like a good ten 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:51.120 minutes and they were questioning us. I did not answer anything. 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:53.680 After the ten minutes, they took us to the beach 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.920 in Spalding. They displayed us before the Latin Kings, and. 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:58.920 That must have been terrifying in and of itself. 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:01.680 At that moment, all I thought it was my ending 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.080 was right there. You know, somebody's going to pull the 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.120 trigger and kill us both. Then they took us to 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:11.560 Grant and Central, placed us in separate rooms, and from 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:15.280 then on that's where the interrogation began. They took turns 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:20.320 Detective GUERVERA. Halverson and kept questioning me over and over, 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:24.120 trying to get me to admit that I've committed one 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.199 of the crimes, which I kept telling them I did not. 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.320 So the interrogation kept going back and forth between Guevara 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.920 and Halverson. They wanted me to say something that I 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.240 could not say. You know, they wanted me to lie, 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.280 and I didn't want to lie, but they kept pressuring 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.240 me and pressuring me, and it's just, you know, it 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.440 becomes to where you're like, what the hell, Just leave 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:48.600 me the hell alone. And you know, I spent time 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:52.080 just crying, and it was like they didn't care. It's 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:54.400 they didn't care about the tears. They didn't care about 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.240 how I felt. They didn't care about, you know, how 0:11:56.280 --> 0:12:01.160 they were pressuring me, you know, and so mentally, emotionally, 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:02.720 and physically, it was very draining. 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:08.120 So justin why was Marilyn in their sights and how 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:09.480 did they come to focus on her? 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.920 So this case started for Marilyn with a combination of 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:18.640 some corrupt detectives detective Guevara and Halverson, who, by the way, 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:22.080 have been linked to now dozens of exonerations in Chicago 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:26.559 and more than fifty million dollars in settlements for wrongful convictions. 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.040 So you have a couple of corrupt detectives and a 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:34.360 snitch who's just making stuff up and gave three separate 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.440 statements that kept changing in order for them to be 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:42.559 consistent with the detective's story. And it started with her 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:47.880 saying that Jackie Martinez had been bragging about these killings. 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:53.360 Then once they got Marilyn into the mix, then she 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.040 changed the story and said that Jackie just took credit 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:59.400 for one of the murders. And then once they got 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.720 a confession out of Maryland, after keeping her for nearly 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:06.280 twenty four hours in custody and keeping her up all night, 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.959 then they built this news story where Now, this snitch 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:14.040 claims to have seen these girls before the shooting and 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:15.920 had said that they were going to go do the 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:20.000 shooting in gang vernacular, which was that apparently they said, 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.920 We're going to roll on some flakes. And by the way, 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:26.040 this snitch had been charged with a drug crime that night, 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.640 which of course was later on dropped after they used 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:33.640 her testimony. And all this was to build in the 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.360 evidence they needed to make their case, and they were 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:39.840 just literally just making up their case as they went along. 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:45.160 So it started with corrupt detectives and a snitch and 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:46.800 then it went downhill from there. 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:52.120 Now, Marylyn, you've now gone through this unbelievable ordeal, no sleep, 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.319 twenty something hours in the police station, and you signed 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.800 a statement prepared by the police. At that point you 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:01.520 probably would have signed anything to make this torture stop, right, 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.360 But did you understand what this meant? I mean, you 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.800 were implicating yourself in both murders, one is a shooter 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:09.120 and the other as a conspirator. 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:11.959 Right, Well, that was not explained to me at that point, 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.160 and at that time I did not know the difference. 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.400 You know, when they're telling you, well, if you want 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.120 to grow old and see your kids, and this is 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.000 your best bet that you take the blame from one 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.120 of the murders, and Jackie Monteness will take the blame 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.720 for the other. So it's like they leave you with 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.600 no choice because you're going to put your children's before anything. 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.240 So I just went ahead and signed that statement. 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:34.920 And of course there's more insanity coming our way, right, 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.160 because there's a witness who ends up testifying to seeing 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:40.680 the murders from her apartment window, even though we find 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.520 out later, right, I guess justin your investigation on covers 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:44.680 some interesting things about that. 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:49.320 Sure, so after they use this snitch testimony to get 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.760 to Maryland, they now have to build the case up. 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:56.520 And this woman claimed to see the shooting from her apartment. 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.640 And the first weekend I was working on this case, 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.920 I drove to Chicago with my students and stood right 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:07.480 in front of her apartment building. And it was crazy 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:08.960 because all you had to do is go to the 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.720 park to realize that she was lying. And when I 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.880 measured it off, the distance between her apartment and the 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.000 bathroom where the shooting occurred in front of it was 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:21.560 four hundred and eighty nine feet. And she claimed at 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:25.720 night in the dark with hardly any lighting. She saw 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:30.680 Jackie hand this gun to Marylyn and do this shooting. Now, 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.240 this is like saying you were sitting in a football 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.800 stadium behind one end zone in the dark, and you 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:40.160 saw someone hand somebody a hot dog behind the opposite 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:40.800 end zone. 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.440 I'm going to take your analogy one step further because 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.200 four hundred and eighty nine feet is closer to two 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:51.080 football fields, and it's dark, and there was foliage in 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.000 the way, right, So I mean, they don't even have 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.920 that in a football state. I've never seen one with foliage. 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.040 So there you go with your law students that it 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.000 takes you five minutes to realized that this whole thing 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:02.480 is complete horseshit. 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.880 It was factually impossible for her to see what she said, 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:10.320 and nobody investigated it. Now when we finally tracked her down. Coincidentally, 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:13.440 the one person who said they saw this shooting, the 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.360 one person in the city of Chicago, was in a 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.320 relationship with one of the victims, and none of that 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:23.480 stuff was ever reported or investigated. So that's the bad 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:28.040 identification portion of this case. So now we have bad cops, 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.920 bad snitch testimony, and bad identification. 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:37.680 And then there's this lawyer. This lawyer in quotes Jeremiah Lynch. 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:42.760 So he was hired to represent Maryland. There were friends 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:47.400 who hired him. He was paid a retainer. I don't 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:50.280 know if he capitulated his role in this case because 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:52.920 he figured there was no more money coming, so why 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:56.280 not just plea this out? You know, a death penalty 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.320 cases takes a lot of time and energy and doing 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:03.160 a trial very expensive and time consuming. But he took 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.639 this ten thousand dollars retainer and as a result, he 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:10.320 had a couple of meetings with Maryland, short meetings, and 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:12.760 he didn't meet with the district attorney, and he didn't 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.320 go to the crime scene, even though later on when 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.320 he was questioned he wasn't that far away his office 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:20.760 from the crime scene, and he'd claimed that maybe he 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:26.119 jogged by there one time. Just basic stuff wasn't done 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.800 and he had no training in this, and this was 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:32.480 his final case as a lawyer. After Marylyn was sentenced 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:34.800 to death. He actually went, you know, took off out 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.399 of the courtroom. And it took me a year to 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.720 find him. And usually lawyers are easy to find. And 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:42.520 when I found him, he was studying to be a 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:46.359 priest at University of Detroit, and he now is a 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:50.919 Catholic priest. And you know, if this was a movie, 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:52.960 we'd have to change his name because it would be 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.240 too corny that his name was father Lynch. And he 0:17:56.640 --> 0:18:01.359 literally did Lynch Marylynd in this case due to his accompetence. 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.280 The Pacers Foundation is a proud supporter of this episode 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.719 and of the Last Mile organization, which provides business and 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:19.679 tech training to help incarcerated individuals successfully and permanently re 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.520 enter the workforce. The Pacers Foundation is committed to improving 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:28.320 the lives of Hoosiers across Indiana, supporting organizations dedicated primarily 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.879 to helping young people and students. For more information on 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.919 the work of the Pacers Foundation or the Last Mile Program, 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:42.240 visit Pacersfoundation dot org or the Lastmile dot org. This 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:46.200 episode is sponsored by AIG, a leading global insurance company, 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:50.200 and Paul Weiss Rifkin, Wharton and Garrison, a leading international 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.800 law firm. The AIG Pro Bono program provides free legal 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:58.720 services and other support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.760 most in need, and recently they announced that working to 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.520 reform the criminal justice system will become a key pillar 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:08.080 of the program's mission. Paul Weiss has long had an 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:12.359 unwavering commitment to providing impactful, pro bono legal assistance to 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.440 the most vulnerable members of our society and in support 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:19.120 of the public interest, including extensive work in the criminal 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:28.040 justice area. So Marilyn's lawyer, this ex lawyer who's now 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:32.040 a priest, gave her terrible and that's not even strong 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:36.600 en forward counsel, because when you plead guilty, there's almost 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.639 always some sort of a deal made and leniency given. 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.880 But in this case, there was no deal on the table, 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:46.960 so she doesn't even get a trial. And on top 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.680 of that, her right to present evidence of innocence at 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:54.240 that time and into the appellate process had been waived, 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.520 so she went straight to a sentencing hearing in front 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.960 of a jury, and it's just the process cution telling 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:06.800 twelve normal everyday people what a terrible, violent, evil person 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:07.400 she is. 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.480 And then there's the question of whether she gets death 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:14.399 or whether she gets life in prison. Now the reason 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.639 is so incompetent. It's because you could at least make 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.520 an argument if the sentencing was being done by a judge, 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:23.920 that the judge had sort of off the record indicated 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:26.480 this isn't going to be a death case. But when 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.360 it's a jury, you have no assurances of anything. So 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.480 the jury now gets to hear everything that the prosecution 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:36.040 wants to put on, crime scene photos of dead bodies, 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:40.600 testimony from the victim's family, all these things in the 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:43.800 sentencing phase of a death case, and Marilyn ends up 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:44.840 getting sentenced to death. 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:49.240 And it's worth noting that Illinois, I don't know how 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.320 long ago, it was more than ten years ago, there 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:56.800 was a professor at Northwestern who assigned his students to 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.680 find innocent people on death row. And the student's eleven 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:05.400 innocent people on death row students, by the way, and 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.840 at that point Governor Ryan at the end of his term, 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:12.439 commuted the death sentences of everyone on death row in 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.840 Illinois because he realized that I think during his term 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:18.160 they'd executed ten people, and here these students had found 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.120 eleven innocent ones. So his you know, they weren't even 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.480 batting five hundred, even if they got it right on 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:27.439 the ones they executed, and it's extremely unlikely that they 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:31.280 didn't execute some innocent people along the way, so you know, 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:33.480 they were maybe getting it right. About three out of 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.080 ten times, and we're talking about the death penalty for 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:40.800 christ sakes, So Marilyn, can you give us some insight 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.359 into what it was like on death row as a 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:48.000 young mother now separated from her children, thrown into this 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:50.280 twilight zone nightmare. 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:55.119 Well, when I first arrived to Dwight, and I was 0:21:55.200 --> 0:22:00.760 taken to Cottage fifteen where it's basically segregation, and they 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:05.000 have a wing where they held the defro inmates, and 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:09.879 it's basically glass where segregation inmates can see the defro inmates. 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:13.840 And they put me past that glass into a cell 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:17.280 and I went in the room. They had brought me 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:21.680 some boxes with clothing, all my beddings and everything that's 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:25.200 required from the institution to give to you, and wouldn't 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:27.560 make my bed. I just sat there and started praying, 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:30.720 and I just kept praying and praying, got on my 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:34.280 knees and I'm like, Lord, just take the rings, whatever 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:37.560 you know, whatever you want me to do, I'm here 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:40.320 and I'm gonna do it. You know, Just let me 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:42.600 be at ease, let me be at peace, let me 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:44.600 be right by you, and let me get through this 0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:47.280 as fast as I can. You know, it was a 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:49.879 beginning of a new start for me, away from everybody 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:54.840 and getting to know new people. And the officer came 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:57.320 back and saw me praying and kind of disturbed me. 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:00.399 It's like, hey, miss Malero, would you like the chuckhole open? 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:03.840 And I'm like, sure, left the chuck hole open. The 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:07.080 girls came by, introduced them self to me, and they 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:09.720 sat there and they pray with me, you know, through 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:12.000 the chuck ho and so, you know, it was like 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:16.520