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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey Aaron, Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcasts.

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Speaker 2: I am Tom Berducci with Joe Madden and Joe. I

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Speaker 2: want to start with one of your former world champion

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Speaker 2: Chicago Cubs, Wilson Contreras gets traded to the bust In

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Speaker 2: Red Sox. You know him, Well, it looks like he's

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Speaker 2: going to play first base. I think he's catching.

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Speaker 3: Days are over.

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Speaker 2: What first jumped out at you when you heard the

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Speaker 2: Red Sox had picked up Contreras from the Saint Louis Cardinals.

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Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I mean I love Wilson. I

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Speaker 4: still believe you can catch. I haven't seen it in

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Speaker 4: a while. But there was a lot of I don't know,

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Speaker 4: almost like force him into the situation conversationally whatever. But

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Speaker 4: he's the first base But I could hit. I know

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Speaker 4: is he didn't quite reach an eight hundred oho ps

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Speaker 4: last year, but the guy can hit. I think that ballpark.

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Speaker 4: Although when he's really doing well, I like him in

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Speaker 4: the middle of the field a post of trying to

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Speaker 4: pull the ball, So I prefer I hope that that

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Speaker 4: wall doesn't influence him a little bit. But Wilson plays

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Speaker 4: hard every day required attention. He's just so emotional. He

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Speaker 4: was always so emotional, and but I love them for it.

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Speaker 4: I mean he was. I used to tell him, you're

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Speaker 4: the guy we plug into. As he said, You're like

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Speaker 4: a socket on the wall. We need to plug into

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Speaker 4: your energy every night. So he would. He would get

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Speaker 4: a little bit upset at things on occasion. I think

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Speaker 4: he's outgrown that a bit, but energy great. We had

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Speaker 4: a wonderful relationship. I still one of the finest throwing

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Speaker 4: arms I've had as a catcher. Really worked hard to

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Speaker 4: understand game plans and apply himself. A lot of the

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Speaker 4: issues were based on the way metrics are considered today,

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Speaker 4: receiving the ball, those kind of evaluations, which again i'd

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Speaker 4: have to sometimes the catcher's first, sometimes he's lost the

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Speaker 4: next year. It's just crazy. But I'm a Willie fan.

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Speaker 4: I love Willie. I hope he kills it up there.

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Speaker 4: I hope he stays in the middle of the field mentally,

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Speaker 4: and who knows, it might even sticking behind the plate

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Speaker 4: at some point if necessary, because you could a kid

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Speaker 4: is like when he's hitting well. As a catcher, that's

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Speaker 4: a pretty special position.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with you.

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Speaker 2: I think some of the defensive shortcompanis, if you will,

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Speaker 2: because his hands.

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Speaker 3: Are a little active back there.

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Speaker 2: He's not necessarily quiet, but maybe those got overplayed a

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Speaker 2: little bit. I would at least talk to him about

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Speaker 2: it and see if his heart's still in it, and

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Speaker 2: I at least have the option that even if he's

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Speaker 2: my third catcher, you know that he's usable at some point,

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Speaker 2: if not on a majority basis. But love the bat

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Speaker 2: with you. Great point you made about him being emotional.

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Speaker 2: I think in a good way that suits really well

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Speaker 2: in a place like Boston. Boston's going to hold you accountable,

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Speaker 2: and I think he really likes that. I love the

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Speaker 2: fire that he brings in a place like Boston. I

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Speaker 2: think that really plays. I think the fans are going

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Speaker 2: to like him, and he can always hit. And you're

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Speaker 2: right too about the pole side. I don't necessarily see

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Speaker 2: him as a pole side hitter. He shouldn't change his

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Speaker 2: game just because it's inviting over there. But listen, that's

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Speaker 2: a good deal for the Boston Red Sox. And there's

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Speaker 2: only two teams in baseball that have not signed a

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Speaker 2: free agent this offseason so far, Colorado Rockies and Boston

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Speaker 2: Red Sox. They have been heavy on the trade market,

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Speaker 2: and just ironically, I don't think there's a reason for this.

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Speaker 2: They went to Saint Louis a couple of times where

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Speaker 2: Hein Bloom is there former Red Sox GM, and to

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Speaker 2: Pittsburgh with Ben Charrington former Boston GM.

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Speaker 3: But this one really worked out. Listen.

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Speaker 2: They got the Cardinals to kick in some money here,

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Speaker 2: which usually means, you know, you put in some higher

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Speaker 2: level prospects. So Contraras is under contract for the next

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Speaker 2: two years, that between seventeen and eighteen million dollars. That's

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Speaker 2: a really good deal for the Boston Red Sox and

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Speaker 2: they still have money to make at least one big

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Speaker 2: move here. And to me, that's either got to be

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Speaker 2: Bregman or Bishett. With the possibility of a Tell Martee trade,

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Speaker 2: I still think Bregman is the best fit here. I'm

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Speaker 2: a little curious as to all these parts that the

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Speaker 2: Red Sox have. Joe, and they have a ton of

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Speaker 2: position players. I don't think they have enough at bats

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Speaker 2: for the number of position players that they have. You know,

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Speaker 2: when you think about Christian Campbell, Tristan Cassis, Romy Gonzalez,

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Speaker 2: David Hamilton, Nick Sogard, Marcello Mayer, even Durant and a

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Speaker 2: Brady in the outfield, Yoshida seems like a fifth wheel here.

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Speaker 2: You know, they have moves to make. I just don't

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Speaker 2: I have to wait and see where the next domino

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Speaker 2: is going to fall here. If it's not Bregman or Bashett,

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't know where they go. What's your

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Speaker 2: feeling about what completes this roster here in Boston?

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, Bregman always fits for me. But I'm a

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Speaker 4: big Marte fan, I really am. They're not. Are they

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Speaker 4: talking about Mishett a shortstop? Is that part of it? No?

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Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think he would be second

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Speaker 2: base Marte. Yeah, I'm with you. It's funny. And one

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Speaker 2: day I was talking to Dave Roberts about Marte and

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Speaker 2: he said, from the right side, he scares him more

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Speaker 2: than any right handed hitter, including Aaron Judge. I like, whoa, Now,

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Speaker 2: there's six years left on that deal. But he does

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Speaker 2: seem like he's the kind of guy even if he

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Speaker 2: can't play second base, he's always going to hit.

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Speaker 4: He is another high energy guy. I've liked him from

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Speaker 4: the beginning. We started with Seattle correct wasn't at Seattle. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I liked him even when I first began, when I

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Speaker 4: first saw him, Bregman, you know, Bregman's a winner. He's

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Speaker 4: been proven to be a winner. He's got that, you know,

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Speaker 4: that that killer's mentality where he just seems to be

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Speaker 4: in the same headspace all the time. Never really looks

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Speaker 4: like he's not an up and down kind of a guy.

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Speaker 4: Just stay with him. If he's not playing, we'll just

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Speaker 4: stay with it. He'll turn it around. I've always loved

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Speaker 4: him for that short swinging. I think he is built

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Speaker 4: for that ballpark there, the way he can pull the baseball.

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Speaker 4: He's right center when he's good, and when he played

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Speaker 4: in Houston and that was dangerous because he made a

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Speaker 4: mistake away take advantage of the porch and right center.

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Speaker 4: But I think overall, his his his makeup, his personality

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Speaker 4: plays well in Boston. But I also do like Marte

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Speaker 4: a lot too, Son and then Bushett. Of course, if

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Speaker 4: you're gonna plaim at second base, okay I would. I

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Speaker 4: would not put them a sure stuff, especially there. But

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Speaker 4: you're talking about all these different players, it just sounds

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Speaker 4: to me, and again, you probably know better than I

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Speaker 4: like They're always searching for a platoon advantage. You know,

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Speaker 4: the folks that are running the Red Sox right now

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Speaker 4: are highly into all that stuff, and so I would

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Speaker 4: I would wonder how often the conversation UH trends to

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Speaker 4: hit in the direction of let's create platoon advantages all year.

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Speaker 4: I think they like to give Alex a bunch of

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Speaker 4: stuff to work with. So I don't know to what

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Speaker 4: extent that is part of this glut of positional players,

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Speaker 4: or like you said, are they just looking to trade

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Speaker 4: somebody whatever. But if I I would go Bregman first,

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Speaker 4: Marte second, and then eventually Bo. So I like Bo

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Speaker 4: a lot, but I mean those two guys. I might

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Speaker 4: just been such a huge fan of Martey from the beginning.

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Speaker 4: And like I said, I think Bregman's a winner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I see Brankman's got a really good market.

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Speaker 2: I love the fit as well in Boston. You know,

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Speaker 2: he just kills it in that ballpark as he did

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Speaker 2: in Houston. And he's a team leader. He's a glue guy,

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Speaker 2: there's no question about it. He's the guy you want

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Speaker 2: on your team. Obviously other teams want him. So it's

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Speaker 2: not going to be easy whether he gets a five

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Speaker 2: or a six year deal. I think it's the market

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Speaker 2: is going to determine that he's a good fit for

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Speaker 2: the Blue Jays. They're in it, the Cubs may be

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Speaker 2: in it. There's talk about the Diamondbacks. He lives out

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Speaker 2: there in Arizona. Whether they could win a bidding war

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Speaker 2: with those other teams. I questioned that, But they're in it,

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Speaker 2: and his team should be in it. This guy's a

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Speaker 2: really good player, great defender, and again he's one of

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Speaker 2: the few guys I think you look at and you say,

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Speaker 2: one of the upsides here is we're getting a guy

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Speaker 2: who's going to be a leader on our team no

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Speaker 2: matter where he plays.

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Speaker 3: He is, He's Joe.

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Speaker 2: He's one of those guys to me, when I talk

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Speaker 2: to him, sees the game at a different level. Like

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Speaker 2: he's the guy in the bench you can see if

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Speaker 2: a pitcher has a tell. He's a guy who can

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Speaker 2: pick out patterns the way they're pitching to guys.

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Speaker 3: He's just one of those guys.

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Speaker 2: He's got so much he's such a baseball rat and

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Speaker 2: such shared information. You know the benefit you're getting from

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Speaker 2: him is going to be better than what you get.

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Speaker 2: And you look at what his ops is, right, he's

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Speaker 2: lefties and those kinds of numbers. He's so valuable beyond

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Speaker 2: the numbers.

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Speaker 4: You know. And if I'm him, you know, going to

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Speaker 4: Chicago to play Wrigley or back to Fenway to play

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Speaker 4: in Boston is way more attractive than going to Arizona

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Speaker 4: to play at the Bob. I mean, so the Bob

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Speaker 4: to me, so, I you know, I know they've done

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Speaker 4: recently well. I guess if he does live there in

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Speaker 4: the off season, I understand the attractiveness of that. But

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Speaker 4: as a baseball freak, and that he is, you're talking

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Speaker 4: about a baseball junkie, I would believe he's going to

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Speaker 4: be attracted to cathedrals. I mean Fenway and Wrigley to

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Speaker 4: the best, Wriggley one, Fenway two. And then you got

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Speaker 4: the Rabbit fan bases, the Cubs losing Tucker looking to

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Speaker 4: rebuild somewhere else. Third base is a wonderful cornerstone always

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Speaker 4: to start with. And with the rest of that infield

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Speaker 4: there they got some gamers there at shortstop, Swanson and

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Speaker 4: of course Nico at second, and then Bush at first.

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Speaker 4: I mean it's kind of nice. I mean, I'd say

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Speaker 4: that almost would rival what we did in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 4: so I could see where if i'm them the Cubs,

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Speaker 4: I have to make a strong bit on this one.

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Speaker 4: Hitting there maybe not as fun as Boston probably. I

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Speaker 4: mean the wind blows in so often that really people

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Speaker 4: have no idea. You get torch a ball the left

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Speaker 4: field and all of a sudden, the left fielder is

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Speaker 4: coming in on it. And there's days of pop up leaves.

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Speaker 4: But I think those are the days that are fewer

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Speaker 4: and farther between than the times that it's blowing out.

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Speaker 4: So just everything you're telling me about him, I've never

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Speaker 4: really spoken with him, but this is a baseball gym rat.

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Speaker 4: I would believe he's going to be attracted to either

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Speaker 4: Wrigley or Fenway.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it comes have been fairly quiet red Sox, As

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Speaker 2: I mentioned, real on the trade front now with you know,

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Speaker 2: getting Sunny Gray and Johanno Vieto to go slop behind

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Speaker 2: Garrett Crochet and the rotation.

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Speaker 3: Brian Beyo is still there now.

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Speaker 2: He's traded a bunch of prospects, but I think it's

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Speaker 2: been smart where he's held on to you guys like

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Speaker 2: Roman Anthony. Of course, I mentioned Mayor Christian Campbell, those

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Speaker 2: three top prospects are still there. So I think what

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Speaker 2: he's done is he said, listen, we're keeping our elite guys.

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Speaker 2: We're going to trade some of our volume of prospects,

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Speaker 2: which I like, I have no problem with that to

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Speaker 2: kind of figure out this major league team without getting

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Speaker 2: into really long term contracts. But I think the final

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Speaker 2: piece is going to have to be unless you traded

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Speaker 2: Duran or going to Bray you and you can get

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Speaker 2: a right handed hitting outfielder. I'm not sure who that

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Speaker 2: guy is right now in the market. I really do

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Speaker 2: think it's Bashett or Bregmant. So one more move for

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Speaker 2: the Red Sox in the American least. How do you

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Speaker 2: see the East right now, Joe, I know we're only no,

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Speaker 2: we're deep into the winter, but we're not finning products yet.

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Speaker 2: I think we're getting back to the days where, like

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Speaker 2: when you were at Tampa Bay Man, you got to

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Speaker 2: go into the season thinking you got to win more

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Speaker 2: than ninety games.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Baltimore picked it up with the Lawns. And I

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Speaker 4: just read some things from Alonso today in the New

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Speaker 4: York Post, and I just like what he said and

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Speaker 4: how he said it. I don't again, I don't know

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Speaker 4: this hill. He's went to school like literally half a

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Speaker 4: block or so from where I'm living right now in Tampa,

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Speaker 4: and I planned high school. Never met him, like to

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Speaker 4: meet him. I just like what he said and how

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Speaker 4: we said it, you know, pretty much praised Baltimore without

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Speaker 4: integrating the Mets whatsoever. And he's eager. He's one of

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Speaker 4: those eager guys. And I think he's that ballpark's a

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Speaker 4: great fit for him. So all of a sudden, they're better.

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Speaker 4: The Blue Jays are just better based on what they

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Speaker 4: had done last year. The Yankees, you know, in spite

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Speaker 4: of all the times we talk about the shortcomings, they

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Speaker 4: still won ninety for four games last year, and the

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Speaker 4: Red Sox continued to ascend. And of course I believe

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Speaker 4: as I drive by the park every day, I see

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Speaker 4: the roof now on Tropicana, the roof looking good. So

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Speaker 4: I think once the get back into their confines, normal,

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Speaker 4: normal patterns, I think they're going to reascend again. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: it is. It's it's getting kind of dirty again. Where listen,

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Speaker 4: it was so much fun. It was so much fun.

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Speaker 4: That's how the Rays got good quickly by playing against

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Speaker 4: such wonderful competition, really good teams in very hostile territories

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Speaker 4: like Yankee Stadium at that time. Of course, Fenway was

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Speaker 4: always tough, and now again with Baltimore's pertinent, like when

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Speaker 4: Buck was there, it became very difficult. And the Blue

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Speaker 4: Jays always had good teams, always beat him somehow, but

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Speaker 4: the Blue Jays were always good. So I love it.

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Speaker 4: I love when the American League East is hot. It

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Speaker 4: was nothing better. I mean that's you know, meanwith coming

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Speaker 4: being raised by the Angels in the American League West,

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Speaker 4: which was also very good with you know, the Marriags

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Speaker 4: were good, the A's are good, we were good out

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Speaker 4: there was kind of a Texas was just always right

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Speaker 4: there too, to a certain extent. Great. But the AL East,

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Speaker 4: I just talked about the vibe, you know, the traditional

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Speaker 4: component of playing on the East Coast, which I think

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Speaker 4: is unmatched. That censor passed. So all of these things

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Speaker 4: are conspiring, I think to make it a very interesting year.

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Speaker 4: So when you say who's going to win the American

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Speaker 4: League East, it's almost it truly can be a toss up.

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Speaker 3: No, I agree.

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Speaker 2: I think it's great for the game when teams have

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Speaker 2: to answer one another.

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Speaker 3: Especially Baltimore.

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Speaker 2: I thought Pete Alonzo would have been a great fit

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Speaker 2: for the Boston Red Sox. So good on the Orioles

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Speaker 2: to jump out and get a guy like that. We

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Speaker 2: mentioned the Yankees. They lost Luke Weaver. I take a

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Speaker 2: break right here, Joe, and we get back. I want

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Speaker 2: to talk about Luke Weaver, like many others these days,

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Speaker 2: crossing town to the New York Mets and what's happening with.

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Speaker 3: The relief market.

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Speaker 2: Talk about that right after this on the Book of Joe.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Book of Joe.

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Speaker 2: Luke Weaver, free agent pitcher signs with the New York

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Speaker 2: Mets two years, twenty two million dollars, which is the

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Speaker 2: same contract, by the way, signed by Brad Keller with

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Speaker 2: the Philadelphia Phillies. And it's close to Ryan Helsley two

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Speaker 2: years twenty eight million, Emilio o Pagan two years twenty million,

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Speaker 2: been again with the Tigers two years nineteen million. You

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Speaker 2: get the point here. At my point here, Joe, is

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Speaker 2: that teams now are willing to pay a higher aav

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Speaker 2: for a relief pitcher, but they are staying away from years.

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Speaker 2: When you think about you know, the Tanner Scott four

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Speaker 2: year contract last year, going back a little farther, the

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Speaker 2: Mark Millanson's, the Jonathan Papple bonds. You know, it's so volatile,

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Speaker 2: as you know, Joe, that you know when relief pitchers pitch, well,

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Speaker 2: that means they get used a lot and then you

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Speaker 2: hit free agency. And I think you saw this last

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Speaker 2: year at Luke Weaver, like his workloads sort of caught

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Speaker 2: up with him. Not that he was overused, but to me,

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Speaker 2: and you know this a lot better than me, Joe,

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Speaker 2: when you pitch high leverage and and you know the

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Speaker 2: mental and physical grind of it, it's hard to repeat

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Speaker 2: that year after year after year.

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Speaker 3: So let me start with Weaver. You know, was just

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Speaker 3: not the same at the end of the year.

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Speaker 2: Surprised the Yankees didn't bring him back, But they do

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Speaker 2: have Duval and they do have Bed and our guys

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Speaker 2: they picked up at the end of the season to

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Speaker 2: sort of replaced him. Are you thinking Weaver might be

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Speaker 2: a good pickup on a bounce back? And the whole

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Speaker 2: year wasn't bad, don't get me wrong. But where you

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Speaker 2: see Weaver right now as a late ending guy for

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Speaker 2: the New York Mets, Yeah, he.

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Speaker 4: Had a different look. I had been injured earlier that

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Speaker 4: last season too, right, he had had some kind of

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Speaker 4: an issue and he came back, he wasn't quite the

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Speaker 4: same or never really got into the swing of things.

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Speaker 4: I like it, I mean, I like the guy, And

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Speaker 4: just to go back to what you just talked about,

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Speaker 4: It's something I always spoke about with relief pictures in general.

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Speaker 4: And I always go back to the point that these

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Speaker 4: guys are held to an impossible standard being perfect or perfection.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of emotional expenditures with bullpen pictures and

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Speaker 4: especially the high leverage guys in the major league level.

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Speaker 4: That's really hardly ever considered. And I always did. I

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Speaker 4: always consider the emotional expenditures going on too. Like I said,

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Speaker 4: you're not gonna run away from somebody if he's your guy.

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Speaker 4: But always used to keep like kind of track like

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Speaker 4: where's he at mentally and how and how does he

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Speaker 4: handle the bad moment? That's the biggest thing, because when

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Speaker 4: they when they just keep wrapping up games and nailing

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Speaker 4: it down. Of course they come to the ballpark, they're invincible,

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Speaker 4: But what's when the one moment occurs when things don't

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Speaker 4: go so well? How does he react to that? The

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Speaker 4: emotional expenditure, and then you might get too And I

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Speaker 4: talked about this too, how do you get him going again?

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Speaker 4: Where back then you could bring him in for an

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Speaker 4: out or two outs and not have to worry about

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Speaker 4: the three batter minimum kind of things. So there was

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Speaker 4: there's all these different dynamics going on now that I

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Speaker 4: think it's somewhat a little bit more difficult, and I'd

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Speaker 4: have to like actually do it to give you a

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Speaker 4: different opinion. But when a guy goes sideways, how do

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Speaker 4: you get him back? Well? So Weaver to me, I

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Speaker 4: like his stuff a lot. He just just seemed to

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Speaker 4: I don't know, he just he lost that killer looked

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Speaker 4: that he had the year before. But his stuff is

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Speaker 4: still good and it's going to play well, and I

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Speaker 4: think it's a good sign on the part of the Mets.

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Speaker 4: I do. Hell's me the same thing with Baltimore. I

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Speaker 4: saw this guy, and I know that we've talked about

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Speaker 4: him where his peripherrees don't look as good, you know,

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Speaker 4: ball and play ex of loss, these things like that,

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Speaker 4: But damn, I saw this guy throw the ball and

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Speaker 4: it was good stuff. And then Pegane and Keller again,

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Speaker 4: these are considered the elites right now in a sense,

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Speaker 4: and you know they're they're all coming in at the

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Speaker 4: same price tag. Everybody's viewing them the same. Their agents

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Speaker 4: know exactly how what's good, what's going to happen for them,

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Speaker 4: And you're talking about the shorter leash in regards to

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Speaker 4: the number of years all that stuff. It's just it's

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Speaker 4: another example of the industry and how one group copies

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Speaker 4: the other group. But nobody's willing to step out. Yes,

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Speaker 4: Scott had a bad year last year. I'm curious though,

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Speaker 4: with this year because this guy was really good for

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Speaker 4: a long period of time and the Dodgers have a

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Speaker 4: tendency to fix things. So long answer, but I really

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Speaker 4: like we were there. I like all those names. I

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Speaker 4: think bounce back years are in vogue for relief pictures

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Speaker 4: as long as they're healthy and well. And you got

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Speaker 4: to do all your work about that. You got to

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Speaker 4: talk to them. Where's their heads at? Talk to people

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Speaker 4: that were with them all last year? What do you

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Speaker 4: got somebody that you could trust their opinion? All that

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00:18:15,918 --> 00:18:19,078
Speaker 4: stuff matters when you're taking a chance or an opportunity

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Speaker 4: like this.

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Speaker 2: This is interesting. It may mean nothing, Joe, but I

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Speaker 2: want to get your opinion on this. Looking at there's

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Speaker 2: been four relief pitchers who signed contracts of three or

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Speaker 2: more years. Actually they're all three, but they're the only

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Speaker 2: ones that got more than two years. Alexis Diaz, Devin Williams,

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Speaker 2: Robert Suarez, Tyler Rodgers. What's interesting to me is think

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Speaker 2: about how all of them throw not a lot of effort.

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Speaker 2: I mean Diaz longstrider, low armslot, very athletic delivery, Devin

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Speaker 2: Williams same thing, Rogers same thing, super low and Swerez

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Speaker 2: easy going, kind of you know, ninety percent fastball diet.

390
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Speaker 2: To me, not essentially, you know, high impact, high energy

391
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Speaker 2: type of closer. Interesting to me that those are the

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Speaker 2: guys now, and I know that we back in the

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Speaker 2: day we thought of guys like Al Raboski and goose Gas.

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Speaker 3: It is just the model of.

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Speaker 2: Relief pitchers, but kind of the athletic and not super

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Speaker 2: big guys throwing one hundred miles an hour like Helsley Is.

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Speaker 3: They may be more repeatable models.

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Speaker 2: Maybe there's nothing to that, but I just find that

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Speaker 2: interesting that those guys are the ones that got more

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Speaker 2: than two years.

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Speaker 4: Well, are you describing people that noally don't get hurt. Also,

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Speaker 4: I mean among those guys.

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Speaker 3: I think you're right about that. I think there's something

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Speaker 3: to that.

405
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Speaker 4: And I think you yeah, I think the lower armstroke

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Speaker 4: saves an arm a little bit. Just think about you know,

407
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Speaker 4: even when it's used to throw all these BP I mean,

408
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Speaker 4: you don't want to throw from over the top. He

409
00:19:46,238 --> 00:19:48,398
Speaker 4: felt that strain on your shoulders. He would drop down

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Speaker 4: a little bit and try to gain command from a

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Speaker 4: little bit lower arm slot. And even watch some great

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Speaker 4: passers in football sometimes their arm isn't as high. It's

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Speaker 4: it's repeatable, it's less stress on that that joint up there.

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Speaker 4: And with these guys, like I said, I thought Williams

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Speaker 4: was getting too low. Maybe again, I don't know if

416
00:20:08,958 --> 00:20:11,078
Speaker 4: that was to something was bothering him he lowered it

417
00:20:11,118 --> 00:20:15,558
Speaker 4: down or again analytical influence. I'm not sure, But I

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Speaker 4: think the other part about that in normally is that

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Speaker 4: a guy could really ride a fastball from down there.

420
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Speaker 4: And then you talk about, well, Rogers just has more deception.

421
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Speaker 4: You got Williams with this crazy change up. Who else

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Speaker 4: did we say there?

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Robert Suarez.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like you said, easy gas, that's easy gas, and man,

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Speaker 4: easy gas is always attractive as a scout when you

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Speaker 4: go out there and you watch, you know, easy gas.

427
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Speaker 4: Who's easy gas? Zach Wheeler's easy gas? Jacob de Grom,

428
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Speaker 4: although Jacob has been heard often, but easy gas. You

429
00:20:43,958 --> 00:20:47,158
Speaker 4: know you see guys like that. God does that turn

430
00:20:47,198 --> 00:20:50,078
Speaker 4: a scout on? So, I don't know. I think part

431
00:20:50,118 --> 00:20:53,798
Speaker 4: of their the allure there is the fact that analytically,

432
00:20:53,838 --> 00:20:56,598
Speaker 4: and I'm sure they got these these tests done or

433
00:20:56,678 --> 00:20:59,118
Speaker 4: they have this their little chart made regarding where a

434
00:20:59,158 --> 00:21:02,238
Speaker 4: guy throws the ball from and the likelihood of him

435
00:21:02,278 --> 00:21:04,758
Speaker 4: being injured might be less than somebody that has an

436
00:21:04,958 --> 00:21:05,958
Speaker 4: higher arm slot.

437
00:21:06,278 --> 00:21:07,798
Speaker 3: So this is not a surprise to you.

438
00:21:07,838 --> 00:21:10,358
Speaker 2: But I was looking at the total number of innings

439
00:21:10,638 --> 00:21:13,918
Speaker 2: that teams ask relief pitchers to cover now, because we

440
00:21:13,958 --> 00:21:15,678
Speaker 2: still have a lot of starting pitchers out there on

441
00:21:15,718 --> 00:21:17,958
Speaker 2: the market that has not developed as quickly as the

442
00:21:17,998 --> 00:21:22,078
Speaker 2: relief market. And it turns out that innings by relief

443
00:21:22,118 --> 00:21:25,398
Speaker 2: pitchers in twenty twenty five were up slightly in twenty

444
00:21:25,438 --> 00:21:28,758
Speaker 2: twenty four, actually down slightly from twenty three.

445
00:21:28,878 --> 00:21:30,478
Speaker 3: So not a lot of variants, I would say, in

446
00:21:30,478 --> 00:21:31,518
Speaker 3: the last three years.

447
00:21:31,798 --> 00:21:36,238
Speaker 2: But if you go back ten years, relief pitchers are

448
00:21:36,278 --> 00:21:40,238
Speaker 2: throwing almost twenty seven hundred more innings in just a

449
00:21:40,278 --> 00:21:44,518
Speaker 2: ten year period. That's an eighteen percent jump. Now, eighteen

450
00:21:44,558 --> 00:21:46,758
Speaker 2: percent of your twenty eight outs or twenty seven outs

451
00:21:46,758 --> 00:21:48,398
Speaker 2: are going to be four or five outs a game.

452
00:21:49,278 --> 00:21:53,198
Speaker 2: So what we're asking relief pitchers to do, you know,

453
00:21:53,598 --> 00:21:56,398
Speaker 2: increasing on an increasing basis at least the last ten years.

454
00:21:56,558 --> 00:21:59,518
Speaker 2: That's significant. You're talking about eighteen percent more innings. It's

455
00:21:59,558 --> 00:22:00,638
Speaker 2: a lot of innings to cover.

456
00:22:00,998 --> 00:22:04,438
Speaker 4: Uh, you sit in the dugout, I've wreched. I'm writing

457
00:22:04,478 --> 00:22:07,718
Speaker 4: things that right. I mean seems like you know, on

458
00:22:07,758 --> 00:22:10,518
Speaker 4: a nightly basis, when you're having to go to the

459
00:22:10,558 --> 00:22:14,958
Speaker 4: pen early nightly man, you better have some even ahead guys.

460
00:22:15,038 --> 00:22:17,358
Speaker 4: You have to have almost the entire group has to

461
00:22:17,358 --> 00:22:19,798
Speaker 4: be even ahead, meaning you'd like to use these guys

462
00:22:19,838 --> 00:22:22,198
Speaker 4: when the score is tied or your head. There's also

463
00:22:22,238 --> 00:22:26,078
Speaker 4: the small deficits that you want to maintain, especially when

464
00:22:26,078 --> 00:22:30,718
Speaker 4: you have a decent offense. But when you have that

465
00:22:30,798 --> 00:22:34,478
Speaker 4: many innings to cover on a nightly basis, it really

466
00:22:34,518 --> 00:22:36,358
Speaker 4: is it's hard. I mean, unless you just have this

467
00:22:36,478 --> 00:22:40,398
Speaker 4: superior group of relief pictures. In today's world, the superior

468
00:22:40,438 --> 00:22:43,118
Speaker 4: group of relief pictures are considered guys that throw really

469
00:22:43,158 --> 00:22:47,678
Speaker 4: hard and could misbats. That's probably the definition of a

470
00:22:47,718 --> 00:22:49,998
Speaker 4: superior relief picture right now, although you just mentioned a

471
00:22:49,998 --> 00:22:53,798
Speaker 4: couple that mispats in another way or create week contact.

472
00:22:54,398 --> 00:22:56,678
Speaker 4: I'm miss telling you. Man, on a nightly basis, when

473
00:22:56,718 --> 00:22:58,998
Speaker 4: you get guys going five innings and sometimes less than

474
00:22:59,038 --> 00:23:01,478
Speaker 4: five innings over the course of maybe three, four, five

475
00:23:01,558 --> 00:23:04,358
Speaker 4: days in a row, your bullpen is just dragged, tongues

476
00:23:04,358 --> 00:23:07,518
Speaker 4: hanging out, and it stinks because when you're in the

477
00:23:07,558 --> 00:23:09,838
Speaker 4: dugout man, you don't want to hurt anybody. You don't

478
00:23:09,838 --> 00:23:12,638
Speaker 4: want to get anybody hurt. But then again, the game's closed,

479
00:23:12,638 --> 00:23:14,838
Speaker 4: you're trying to win the game, and it's important in

480
00:23:15,278 --> 00:23:16,798
Speaker 4: the ebb and flow of the season, and you got

481
00:23:16,838 --> 00:23:20,238
Speaker 4: to use people more often than not. However, I know

482
00:23:20,318 --> 00:23:23,118
Speaker 4: from my personal experience there was times that before the

483
00:23:23,158 --> 00:23:26,558
Speaker 4: game would begin, the front office would tell you who's down,

484
00:23:26,878 --> 00:23:28,718
Speaker 4: who you're not permitted to use that night. We got

485
00:23:28,718 --> 00:23:33,798
Speaker 4: to that point and because there's all there's the ability

486
00:23:33,838 --> 00:23:35,958
Speaker 4: to bring guys up take guys down, which is when

487
00:23:35,958 --> 00:23:39,398
Speaker 4: you have those the optionable relief pictures, which is also

488
00:23:39,478 --> 00:23:43,318
Speaker 4: a very valuable asset to have. Then you could front

489
00:23:43,358 --> 00:23:46,718
Speaker 4: office wise, you could choose to give guys rest, knowing

490
00:23:47,358 --> 00:23:50,118
Speaker 4: that you could put guys up and down. And so

491
00:23:50,198 --> 00:23:52,078
Speaker 4: that's like I always thought, you have to have at

492
00:23:52,078 --> 00:23:54,198
Speaker 4: wide at least eight or nine starting pitchers that you

493
00:23:54,238 --> 00:23:57,038
Speaker 4: really did dig on in order to complete a season.

494
00:23:57,118 --> 00:23:59,558
Speaker 4: And I don't even know what's considered the appropriate number

495
00:23:59,558 --> 00:24:02,038
Speaker 4: of relief pictures they have now between the group that

496
00:24:02,078 --> 00:24:03,558
Speaker 4: you have on a major league level and the group

497
00:24:03,598 --> 00:24:07,158
Speaker 4: that you're holding back on Triple A. So there's I

498
00:24:07,318 --> 00:24:10,558
Speaker 4: just know on a night by night basis, when it

499
00:24:10,598 --> 00:24:13,558
Speaker 4: comes down as strategical trying to win the game and

500
00:24:13,678 --> 00:24:15,358
Speaker 4: having an idea what's going to happen. And again I

501
00:24:15,398 --> 00:24:19,038
Speaker 4: just talked about impossible standard of perfection. It's hard to

502
00:24:19,038 --> 00:24:20,878
Speaker 4: ask your guys to go out there that often and

503
00:24:20,958 --> 00:24:23,798
Speaker 4: expect them to just nail it down that for that

504
00:24:23,918 --> 00:24:25,518
Speaker 4: many extra innings. That's crazy.

505
00:24:25,958 --> 00:24:28,438
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is expected.

506
00:24:28,518 --> 00:24:32,158
Speaker 2: As relief pitchers pick up more innings, they're less effective.

507
00:24:32,198 --> 00:24:34,718
Speaker 2: I mean, the gap between hitting a starting pitcher and

508
00:24:34,718 --> 00:24:37,278
Speaker 2: a relief pitcher. It used to be much harder to

509
00:24:37,318 --> 00:24:40,238
Speaker 2: hit relief pitching now Actually the on base percentage is

510
00:24:40,358 --> 00:24:44,078
Speaker 2: higher against the relief pitching now. Their strikeout rate is higher,

511
00:24:44,558 --> 00:24:47,958
Speaker 2: the batting average is slightly lower, but you can win

512
00:24:47,998 --> 00:24:49,838
Speaker 2: the at bat more. We're talking about guys who don't

513
00:24:49,838 --> 00:24:52,118
Speaker 2: have the same kind of command, right. But it used

514
00:24:52,158 --> 00:24:53,918
Speaker 2: to be a bigger gap, I thought, where it was

515
00:24:53,958 --> 00:24:57,358
Speaker 2: so difficult to get anything off relief pitching. But the

516
00:24:57,398 --> 00:25:00,718
Speaker 2: gap has narrowed because they're they're asked to get more outs.

517
00:25:01,078 --> 00:25:04,838
Speaker 2: This is interesting to me too, Joe. What inning in

518
00:25:04,878 --> 00:25:08,558
Speaker 2: a ballgame do you think has the lowest batting average

519
00:25:08,798 --> 00:25:11,918
Speaker 2: and the lowest on base percentage, the least offense in

520
00:25:11,998 --> 00:25:14,798
Speaker 2: any inning in a major league game, not including extra innings.

521
00:25:15,038 --> 00:25:17,838
Speaker 4: I would say it's kind of a middle inning. You know,

522
00:25:17,918 --> 00:25:20,558
Speaker 4: sometimes guys you know, you get off to they come out,

523
00:25:20,558 --> 00:25:23,438
Speaker 4: they break good, and things kind of settle in a

524
00:25:23,478 --> 00:25:27,038
Speaker 4: starting pitcher that might, you know, his first drive goes

525
00:25:27,198 --> 00:25:30,758
Speaker 4: into out of bounce and his first seven iron just

526
00:25:30,798 --> 00:25:32,438
Speaker 4: doesn't hit it quite right, and all of a sudden,

527
00:25:32,758 --> 00:25:35,718
Speaker 4: rhythm comes together and they find their rhythm. I'm saying

528
00:25:36,238 --> 00:25:36,798
Speaker 4: sixth inning.

529
00:25:37,118 --> 00:25:39,438
Speaker 2: Well, I think I like your theory, but you're off

530
00:25:39,478 --> 00:25:42,118
Speaker 2: on the inning because the toughest inning to hit in

531
00:25:42,118 --> 00:25:44,198
Speaker 2: the major leagues is the second inning.

532
00:25:44,318 --> 00:25:46,878
Speaker 3: Well, okay, I mean that is weird to me.

533
00:25:46,998 --> 00:25:50,558
Speaker 2: First of all, Traditionally it's been in the last decade

534
00:25:50,638 --> 00:25:54,358
Speaker 2: or more the ninth inning, right, I mean, and I

535
00:25:54,438 --> 00:25:56,838
Speaker 2: realize you're not always playing the Bobby of the ninth,

536
00:25:56,878 --> 00:25:59,678
Speaker 2: so you may have fewer at bats, but you know, essentially,

537
00:25:59,718 --> 00:26:01,838
Speaker 2: if the game is close, you're not messing around with

538
00:26:01,878 --> 00:26:03,438
Speaker 2: the game. One of your best pictures is out there

539
00:26:03,478 --> 00:26:06,718
Speaker 2: at to but the second ending, I can't really explain

540
00:26:06,758 --> 00:26:10,078
Speaker 2: that other than what you just said about a picture

541
00:26:10,278 --> 00:26:13,158
Speaker 2: just kind of finding his stuff and the back half

542
00:26:13,158 --> 00:26:15,518
Speaker 2: of the lineup just not being as good as obviously

543
00:26:15,598 --> 00:26:16,238
Speaker 2: the top half.

544
00:26:16,918 --> 00:26:19,638
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was just picture finding his stuff and then

545
00:26:19,838 --> 00:26:22,598
Speaker 4: the propensity to switch to another to a relief picture

546
00:26:22,638 --> 00:26:25,678
Speaker 4: right around that fifth or sixth inning. My point also

547
00:26:25,838 --> 00:26:28,518
Speaker 4: was that in the latter part of the game, if

548
00:26:28,558 --> 00:26:30,198
Speaker 4: the hitters have been asleep at all that night, they're

549
00:26:30,238 --> 00:26:33,478
Speaker 4: definitely gonna ramp it up late, especially when you're behind

550
00:26:33,478 --> 00:26:35,278
Speaker 4: by a runner too. I think there's just a higher

551
00:26:35,398 --> 00:26:38,758
Speaker 4: level of mental acumen among hitters as the game gets

552
00:26:38,798 --> 00:26:43,598
Speaker 4: deeper tighter behind a little bit, And not that anybody,

553
00:26:43,718 --> 00:26:46,478
Speaker 4: I'm not It's not an accusatory moment like I'm saying.

554
00:26:46,478 --> 00:26:48,878
Speaker 4: People don't care. That's not it at all. It's just

555
00:26:48,958 --> 00:26:51,638
Speaker 4: human nature. So that's that's what I was working off of,

556
00:26:52,038 --> 00:26:55,318
Speaker 4: that point where the starter gets better and then the

557
00:26:55,358 --> 00:26:58,958
Speaker 4: in today's world, the managers not concerned about going to

558
00:26:58,998 --> 00:27:01,038
Speaker 4: the pen earlier. You're going to get like this middle

559
00:27:01,078 --> 00:27:03,718
Speaker 4: part of the game there that hitters have to you know,

560
00:27:03,758 --> 00:27:07,238
Speaker 4: they they're just into that the flow of the game

561
00:27:07,318 --> 00:27:09,318
Speaker 4: in a sense where it's later in the year. Games

562
00:27:09,318 --> 00:27:12,518
Speaker 4: are going every night, every night, every night, and if

563
00:27:12,558 --> 00:27:15,598
Speaker 4: it's not going so well, you kind of your mental

564
00:27:15,638 --> 00:27:17,198
Speaker 4: acuity is not as high. But as soon as that

565
00:27:17,238 --> 00:27:19,398
Speaker 4: game gets late, man, I know that you got the closers,

566
00:27:19,438 --> 00:27:21,998
Speaker 4: but the hitters perk up a little bit too. So

567
00:27:22,478 --> 00:27:27,198
Speaker 4: it's interesting the second inning, like you said, probably because

568
00:27:27,198 --> 00:27:29,798
Speaker 4: it gets to this lower part of the batting order,

569
00:27:29,838 --> 00:27:32,278
Speaker 4: the pitchers somewhat fresh and maybe gets through his anxiety

570
00:27:32,318 --> 00:27:35,438
Speaker 4: in the first inning. But I still have I've always

571
00:27:35,518 --> 00:27:38,238
Speaker 4: I've always thought that the middle innings kind of sometimes

572
00:27:38,278 --> 00:27:39,038
Speaker 4: there could be a lull.

573
00:27:39,198 --> 00:27:41,958
Speaker 2: Offensively, well, I agree with your theory on the middle innings.

574
00:27:41,958 --> 00:27:44,478
Speaker 2: I think most games pivot around the fifth inning, and

575
00:27:44,478 --> 00:27:46,918
Speaker 2: that's why managers have to face that third time around

576
00:27:46,918 --> 00:27:51,398
Speaker 2: option you start making decisions on strategy generally around the

577
00:27:51,398 --> 00:27:53,638
Speaker 2: fifth inning. In today's game, maybe into the sixth. So

578
00:27:53,878 --> 00:27:57,158
Speaker 2: I like your thoughts on the middle innings. Now, the

579
00:27:57,238 --> 00:28:00,638
Speaker 2: question of what is the easiest or highest scoring inning

580
00:28:00,718 --> 00:28:03,438
Speaker 2: in the game, It's always been true the first inning.

581
00:28:03,678 --> 00:28:05,038
Speaker 4: First, Yeah, I was gonna say that.

582
00:28:05,118 --> 00:28:07,558
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's obvious, and it cracks me up

583
00:28:07,558 --> 00:28:09,638
Speaker 2: when I hear people talk all the time about somebody

584
00:28:09,638 --> 00:28:11,638
Speaker 2: out there in the first inning, this guy has trouble

585
00:28:11,678 --> 00:28:13,358
Speaker 2: in the first inning. How many times have you heard

586
00:28:13,398 --> 00:28:15,438
Speaker 2: that in a broadcast, This guy's got an eight e

587
00:28:15,638 --> 00:28:17,438
Speaker 2: RA in the first inning. Well, first of all, that's

588
00:28:17,438 --> 00:28:19,998
Speaker 2: such a small sample size. If you have one game

589
00:28:20,038 --> 00:28:21,678
Speaker 2: you give up three or four in the first inning,

590
00:28:21,718 --> 00:28:23,758
Speaker 2: you're not gonna have a good r in the first inning.

591
00:28:24,238 --> 00:28:26,598
Speaker 2: And second of all, why is it the highest scoring

592
00:28:26,678 --> 00:28:30,358
Speaker 2: inning in a game? Well, your lineup is optimized to

593
00:28:30,398 --> 00:28:32,678
Speaker 2: score the most runs the one time in the game

594
00:28:32,918 --> 00:28:36,838
Speaker 2: you control who's batting in an inning, So you're having

595
00:28:36,838 --> 00:28:40,078
Speaker 2: your best designed lineup batting in the first inning. It's

596
00:28:40,118 --> 00:28:42,718
Speaker 2: not a surprise. It always has been, always will be

597
00:28:43,238 --> 00:28:45,118
Speaker 2: first inning. So I don't want to hear about a

598
00:28:45,118 --> 00:28:47,118
Speaker 2: picture has trouble in the first inning, although some do.

599
00:28:47,198 --> 00:28:49,558
Speaker 2: I'm not ruling that out, but as a general rule,

600
00:28:49,598 --> 00:28:52,238
Speaker 2: the pictuer is facing the best hitters, who in the

601
00:28:52,278 --> 00:28:54,478
Speaker 2: lineup is maximized to score the most runs.

602
00:28:54,758 --> 00:28:56,758
Speaker 4: Well, that's you know, the flow of the game to

603
00:28:56,838 --> 00:28:59,318
Speaker 4: I'm tell you, there was I think really good pictures.

604
00:28:59,358 --> 00:29:01,358
Speaker 4: Sometimes those are the guys you might be able to

605
00:29:01,358 --> 00:29:03,278
Speaker 4: get early, just because of what I talked about my

606
00:29:03,318 --> 00:29:07,158
Speaker 4: golf and now you know the temple of your armstroke

607
00:29:08,158 --> 00:29:10,398
Speaker 4: just breathing well, I mean, regardless of how many years

608
00:29:10,438 --> 00:29:12,278
Speaker 4: you've pitched or played, you're still going to get that

609
00:29:12,678 --> 00:29:14,838
Speaker 4: charge of that batt I'm not saying that's anxiety. It's

610
00:29:14,878 --> 00:29:17,518
Speaker 4: like an over eagerness or excitement. That's you got to

611
00:29:17,518 --> 00:29:19,238
Speaker 4: be able to control and breathe in the moment all

612
00:29:19,238 --> 00:29:21,758
Speaker 4: those things happen, and that's sometimes where I think a

613
00:29:21,798 --> 00:29:24,518
Speaker 4: guy can make mistakes. But if you let him up

614
00:29:24,558 --> 00:29:26,438
Speaker 4: and he starts breathing right and all of a sudden

615
00:29:26,478 --> 00:29:29,358
Speaker 4: that tempo shows up, that's where guys get real dirty,

616
00:29:29,478 --> 00:29:32,638
Speaker 4: and that's when it becomes much more difficult. So I agree.

617
00:29:32,638 --> 00:29:34,238
Speaker 4: I mean, to me, you want to ambush as much

618
00:29:34,238 --> 00:29:36,998
Speaker 4: as you can early, and the way the lineups are

619
00:29:37,078 --> 00:29:40,878
Speaker 4: designed today as compared to in the past with lesser

620
00:29:40,958 --> 00:29:44,438
Speaker 4: leadoff hitters. Although Ricky Henderson was pretty good, lou Brock

621
00:29:44,558 --> 00:29:46,838
Speaker 4: was pretty good. Lou Brock would put a hurt on

622
00:29:46,878 --> 00:29:48,558
Speaker 4: you from the first that bat too, And that goes

623
00:29:48,598 --> 00:29:52,638
Speaker 4: back to the sixties. So it's it's interesting, and I

624
00:29:52,678 --> 00:29:54,558
Speaker 4: think a lot of it has to do, like you said,

625
00:29:54,638 --> 00:29:56,598
Speaker 4: better part of your lineup coming up quickly, and they

626
00:29:56,678 --> 00:29:59,118
Speaker 4: got to be ready for the first that bat while

627
00:30:00,118 --> 00:30:02,678
Speaker 4: a pitcher still trying to get into his rhythm of

628
00:30:02,718 --> 00:30:05,558
Speaker 4: the day. Like I'll tell you Matt Garza and I

629
00:30:05,598 --> 00:30:08,798
Speaker 4: had Maddie with the Rays. He had a great air force.

630
00:30:08,838 --> 00:30:11,678
Speaker 4: We went to the World Series. But if he came

631
00:30:11,678 --> 00:30:15,158
Speaker 4: out through that first fastball down angled ninety four at

632
00:30:15,158 --> 00:30:17,478
Speaker 4: the knise called strike, I was like, well, here we go,

633
00:30:17,918 --> 00:30:20,358
Speaker 4: because I knew he was in control of his emotion. Also,

634
00:30:20,438 --> 00:30:22,678
Speaker 4: I used to look at that a lot different pictures,

635
00:30:22,718 --> 00:30:25,718
Speaker 4: different guys I had, I would view them differently, and

636
00:30:25,758 --> 00:30:28,238
Speaker 4: I would look and like, again, I've talked about the

637
00:30:28,278 --> 00:30:33,078
Speaker 4: world the NLCS with the Mets in fifteen, there's Harvey

638
00:30:33,478 --> 00:30:36,198
Speaker 4: gets out the first pitch of the game, change up

639
00:30:36,238 --> 00:30:40,078
Speaker 4: down in a way called strike against Dexter Fowler in

640
00:30:40,118 --> 00:30:43,438
Speaker 4: horrible weather. Wow, we're in trouble right here. You know.

641
00:30:43,638 --> 00:30:46,358
Speaker 4: I look at that stuff and see what kind of

642
00:30:46,398 --> 00:30:49,998
Speaker 4: emotional control the picture has in that beyond physical control,

643
00:30:50,038 --> 00:30:51,838
Speaker 4: what kind of emotional control he has, and then it's

644
00:30:51,878 --> 00:30:55,278
Speaker 4: going to translate into physical That's always something I look for.

645
00:30:55,838 --> 00:30:57,358
Speaker 3: Hey, Joe, we're going to take a quick break.

646
00:30:57,398 --> 00:31:00,118
Speaker 2: I mentioned the Weaver contract, the Keller contract two years

647
00:31:00,158 --> 00:31:02,438
Speaker 2: twenty two million dollars. If I gave you the same

648
00:31:02,958 --> 00:31:06,718
Speaker 2: contract two years twenty two would you spend it on a, say,

649
00:31:06,758 --> 00:31:08,678
Speaker 2: an eighth inning guy or would you spend it on

650
00:31:08,758 --> 00:31:11,918
Speaker 2: a starting pitcher who will be in your rotation, maybe

651
00:31:11,958 --> 00:31:12,558
Speaker 2: at the front.

652
00:31:13,078 --> 00:31:14,918
Speaker 3: I'll lost Joe that question right after this.

653
00:31:15,118 --> 00:31:27,078
Speaker 5: In the Book of Joe.

654
00:31:28,318 --> 00:31:29,758
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Book of Joe.

655
00:31:29,878 --> 00:31:32,878
Speaker 2: I mentioned giving Joe Madden two years twenty two million

656
00:31:32,998 --> 00:31:35,398
Speaker 2: dollar contract to spend. Would you spend it on someone

657
00:31:35,478 --> 00:31:37,198
Speaker 2: like a Brad Keller or would you spend it on

658
00:31:37,198 --> 00:31:40,398
Speaker 2: someone like Adrian Hauser who signed that contract with the

659
00:31:40,398 --> 00:31:43,838
Speaker 2: San Francisco Giants. Now he's probably not a front of

660
00:31:43,838 --> 00:31:47,758
Speaker 2: the rotation guy, but he had a really good breakout

661
00:31:47,838 --> 00:31:51,078
Speaker 2: year last year at the age of thirty one, terrible

662
00:31:51,078 --> 00:31:52,958
Speaker 2: with the Mets a couple of years ago, just lost

663
00:31:52,998 --> 00:31:56,998
Speaker 2: his sinker. He signed with Texas, didn't have a great

664
00:31:57,078 --> 00:31:59,718
Speaker 2: spring in Texas. Let him go because he had an

665
00:31:59,758 --> 00:32:01,118
Speaker 2: opt out in his claws. He had to be in

666
00:32:01,158 --> 00:32:02,478
Speaker 2: the major leagues or they had to let him go.

667
00:32:02,598 --> 00:32:03,198
Speaker 3: So they let him go.

668
00:32:03,358 --> 00:32:05,038
Speaker 2: Picked up by the White Sox, and man, he was

669
00:32:05,118 --> 00:32:06,358
Speaker 2: lights out with the White Sox.

670
00:32:06,878 --> 00:32:08,158
Speaker 3: Got traded to Tampa Bay.

671
00:32:08,238 --> 00:32:11,318
Speaker 2: Didn't pitch as well there, but his peripherals were still good.

672
00:32:11,438 --> 00:32:14,438
Speaker 2: And most importantly, I think to the Giants, they saw

673
00:32:14,798 --> 00:32:16,958
Speaker 2: the shape on his slider and the velocity on his

674
00:32:17,038 --> 00:32:21,238
Speaker 2: sinker really played up. So the Giants signed him two years,

675
00:32:21,278 --> 00:32:23,718
Speaker 2: twenty two million dollars. It's an interesting sign. And bring

676
00:32:23,718 --> 00:32:26,238
Speaker 2: it up just because we mentioned, you know how many

677
00:32:26,278 --> 00:32:27,958
Speaker 2: innings relief pitchers are picking up.

678
00:32:28,238 --> 00:32:31,078
Speaker 3: I still like the idea of having starting.

679
00:32:30,718 --> 00:32:32,958
Speaker 2: Pitchers who can go out there and give you six

680
00:32:32,998 --> 00:32:36,278
Speaker 2: and maybe seven innings sometimes. And again I'm not saying

681
00:32:36,278 --> 00:32:39,078
Speaker 2: he's gonna win a Cy Young Award, but it's a

682
00:32:39,118 --> 00:32:40,878
Speaker 2: guy based on the way he threw the ball last year.

683
00:32:41,118 --> 00:32:43,558
Speaker 2: Really interesting sign for me, Joe. If you can find

684
00:32:43,558 --> 00:32:45,638
Speaker 2: these guys at the right age, at the right time.

685
00:32:46,038 --> 00:32:48,078
Speaker 2: Who's had success before in the past, so it's not

686
00:32:48,118 --> 00:32:51,558
Speaker 2: like he hasn't done it. Interesting story as well, I mean,

687
00:32:51,598 --> 00:32:53,518
Speaker 2: where did the velocity come from last year? Well, he

688
00:32:53,558 --> 00:32:56,078
Speaker 2: went home after the year before, after that tough year

689
00:32:56,158 --> 00:32:59,158
Speaker 2: he worked with the guy in Oklahoma really broke down

690
00:32:59,198 --> 00:32:59,798
Speaker 2: the delivery.

691
00:32:59,838 --> 00:33:02,478
Speaker 3: He felt like his hands were too close to his body.

692
00:33:02,478 --> 00:33:03,918
Speaker 2: He freed up his hands, moved than in the world

693
00:33:04,118 --> 00:33:08,478
Speaker 2: away from his body, discovered he really wasn't using his

694
00:33:08,598 --> 00:33:11,518
Speaker 2: hamstring and glutes basically the backside nearly as much. So

695
00:33:11,518 --> 00:33:13,718
Speaker 2: he's sitting on his backside more, getting a lot more

696
00:33:13,758 --> 00:33:17,078
Speaker 2: easy power that we just talked about, and here he is.

697
00:33:18,278 --> 00:33:20,438
Speaker 2: So give me your thoughts on signing a guy like that.

698
00:33:20,558 --> 00:33:23,078
Speaker 2: I know we use that term innings eater a lot.

699
00:33:23,598 --> 00:33:26,358
Speaker 2: I almost think in today's game, Joe, that's become even

700
00:33:26,398 --> 00:33:27,078
Speaker 2: more valuable.

701
00:33:27,558 --> 00:33:29,598
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, when I was with the Rays, I

702
00:33:29,638 --> 00:33:31,478
Speaker 4: think I don't know how many times they said say

703
00:33:31,518 --> 00:33:34,718
Speaker 4: the phrase because we were so good at starting pitching,

704
00:33:34,758 --> 00:33:37,678
Speaker 4: that the starting pitching. Starting pitchers drive the engine. They're

705
00:33:37,758 --> 00:33:40,638
Speaker 4: kind of the pistons or the spark plugs or in

706
00:33:40,638 --> 00:33:42,918
Speaker 4: today's world, the feeld injectors. I don't know, but these

707
00:33:42,958 --> 00:33:48,798
Speaker 4: guys I've always felt drive the pitching engine, and I

708
00:33:49,198 --> 00:33:52,838
Speaker 4: just I'm considered old school. I still believe that. So yeah,

709
00:33:52,918 --> 00:33:56,158
Speaker 4: give me that money if I could acquire or sign

710
00:33:56,238 --> 00:33:58,438
Speaker 4: up a starting pitcher that I really like, and it

711
00:33:58,478 --> 00:34:00,478
Speaker 4: sounds like they really like this felt. I haven't really

712
00:34:00,518 --> 00:34:03,878
Speaker 4: watched them more recently, but I always want to believe,

713
00:34:03,998 --> 00:34:08,158
Speaker 4: and I still believe, given the opportunity to build, I

714
00:34:08,198 --> 00:34:11,798
Speaker 4: would really make sure that you get after the starting pitchers,

715
00:34:11,838 --> 00:34:14,518
Speaker 4: and I listen, I've always been, always been really for

716
00:34:14,678 --> 00:34:16,998
Speaker 4: everybody is right. You want to be able to sometimes

717
00:34:17,038 --> 00:34:19,318
Speaker 4: you want to be able to create the game backward.

718
00:34:20,278 --> 00:34:22,998
Speaker 4: If your starting pitching isn't strong enough, then you really

719
00:34:23,038 --> 00:34:26,038
Speaker 4: have to pay attention to playing the game backwards ninth,

720
00:34:26,118 --> 00:34:28,038
Speaker 4: the eight, seventh inning, et cetera, which is pretty much

721
00:34:28,038 --> 00:34:31,198
Speaker 4: what they do today. But preferably I'd rather go the

722
00:34:31,198 --> 00:34:33,958
Speaker 4: other Way'd rather go the conventional way. Starting pitching, like

723
00:34:33,998 --> 00:34:37,118
Speaker 4: you suggest, against me to the sixth, hopefully into the seventh.

724
00:34:37,158 --> 00:34:40,798
Speaker 4: I got less outs to get I could really utilize

725
00:34:41,278 --> 00:34:44,718
Speaker 4: matchup appropriately my pictures, and again more difficult now with

726
00:34:44,718 --> 00:34:47,238
Speaker 4: the three batter minimum, but I would try to get

727
00:34:47,278 --> 00:34:49,838
Speaker 4: that done and then you could actually put these guys

728
00:34:49,878 --> 00:34:54,118
Speaker 4: on a schedule that really doesn't impact talking about really

729
00:34:54,078 --> 00:34:57,958
Speaker 4: these pictures now your sensibilities in regards to not hurting anybody.

730
00:34:57,998 --> 00:35:00,358
Speaker 4: I mean I always, really, I would always worry about

731
00:35:00,358 --> 00:35:03,118
Speaker 4: stuff like that when you know a guy would say

732
00:35:03,118 --> 00:35:05,318
Speaker 4: he's good on the third consecutive day as an example,

733
00:35:05,798 --> 00:35:08,478
Speaker 4: So yes, I would spend on starting pitching that I like,

734
00:35:09,478 --> 00:35:12,878
Speaker 4: I love relievers, but man, the starting pitching when it

735
00:35:12,998 --> 00:35:17,398
Speaker 4: is created in a manner that it's it's pretty solid,

736
00:35:17,438 --> 00:35:19,878
Speaker 4: like one through five, six, And like I said, you

737
00:35:19,878 --> 00:35:21,478
Speaker 4: have to have two other guys in the wings at

738
00:35:21,598 --> 00:35:24,798
Speaker 4: least maybe three that are optionable coming up and down.

739
00:35:24,958 --> 00:35:27,798
Speaker 4: That should drive your engine and that makes everything else

740
00:35:28,198 --> 00:35:30,918
Speaker 4: managerially a heck of a lot easier to contend with

741
00:35:30,958 --> 00:35:31,918
Speaker 4: on a nightly basis.

742
00:35:32,558 --> 00:35:35,198
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, said Joe. I mean it's certainly not as

743
00:35:35,238 --> 00:35:37,638
Speaker 2: easy as saying it's an either or situation. But I

744
00:35:37,678 --> 00:35:39,398
Speaker 2: look at a team like the Phillies, and to me,

745
00:35:39,478 --> 00:35:43,238
Speaker 2: that's the model where almost every night you know, you're

746
00:35:43,238 --> 00:35:44,998
Speaker 2: not panic that you're gonna have to get to your

747
00:35:45,038 --> 00:35:47,478
Speaker 2: bullpen early, and what situation are you going to be

748
00:35:47,518 --> 00:35:48,198
Speaker 2: in the next day.

749
00:35:49,398 --> 00:35:50,198
Speaker 3: That is ideal.

750
00:35:50,278 --> 00:35:52,678
Speaker 2: And by the way, I mentioned the mechanical changes Howser

751
00:35:52,798 --> 00:35:54,838
Speaker 2: made and a lot of times, as you know, Joe,

752
00:35:54,838 --> 00:35:56,598
Speaker 2: it's when you get these guys getting them at the

753
00:35:56,638 --> 00:35:58,478
Speaker 2: right time. The Mets didn't get them at the right time.

754
00:35:58,518 --> 00:36:01,518
Speaker 2: Maybe the Giants have, especially in that ballpark. But he

755
00:36:01,638 --> 00:36:04,438
Speaker 2: also went to a carnivore die. Do you know what

756
00:36:04,478 --> 00:36:06,158
Speaker 2: that is, Joe, carnivore diet.

757
00:36:06,398 --> 00:36:09,518
Speaker 4: It's just eating steaks. Is that? Steaks and work chops.

758
00:36:11,318 --> 00:36:16,918
Speaker 2: I'm in no plant based foods, these zero carbs.

759
00:36:16,078 --> 00:36:20,398
Speaker 4: He's a throwback. You talk about old school, that's prehistoric times.

760
00:36:21,278 --> 00:36:24,118
Speaker 4: There was no no tofu back then.

761
00:36:26,518 --> 00:36:27,998
Speaker 3: That's you though, Well.

762
00:36:27,838 --> 00:36:31,558
Speaker 4: I do I I really, I prefer that My body

763
00:36:31,678 --> 00:36:35,758
Speaker 4: likes that better fish meats now. Listen, I like last

764
00:36:35,798 --> 00:36:37,878
Speaker 4: night we killed some sushi and you know, so she's

765
00:36:37,878 --> 00:36:39,718
Speaker 4: a lot of protein too, if you get the right

766
00:36:40,278 --> 00:36:45,438
Speaker 4: mixture of events there. I'm not walking away from our restaurant,

767
00:36:45,478 --> 00:36:49,598
Speaker 4: ABBA's egg Plant Parmesan, which I consider right, thank you,

768
00:36:49,678 --> 00:36:52,478
Speaker 4: right next to Anty Flows. And then the other night

769
00:36:52,518 --> 00:36:55,238
Speaker 4: I was down at Mazaro's. It's a great the best deli,

770
00:36:55,718 --> 00:36:57,558
Speaker 4: Italian deli, one of the best in the country. It's

771
00:36:57,558 --> 00:37:00,118
Speaker 4: done in Saint Pete on twenty second North. And they

772
00:37:00,158 --> 00:37:03,238
Speaker 4: walk in and they had like the small steamer clams

773
00:37:03,278 --> 00:37:04,838
Speaker 4: like I don't know if there were manilas or not,

774
00:37:04,958 --> 00:37:07,758
Speaker 4: but they were really small. I brought them back. I'm kidding,

775
00:37:07,918 --> 00:37:11,358
Speaker 4: I'm salvating jail. Our chef put them together with some

776
00:37:11,398 --> 00:37:14,918
Speaker 4: steamers and like some nice juice and that the toasted bread,

777
00:37:15,358 --> 00:37:18,918
Speaker 4: you know, the garlic and the parsley all over them,

778
00:37:19,278 --> 00:37:22,518
Speaker 4: and then a nice pasta that we you just yeah

779
00:37:22,598 --> 00:37:24,318
Speaker 4: the oh you didn't have all the sauce over it,

780
00:37:24,438 --> 00:37:28,438
Speaker 4: my god favor. Yeah right, So I mean, yes, I

781
00:37:28,518 --> 00:37:34,598
Speaker 4: will I vibe in the non carnivore world, but primarily

782
00:37:34,878 --> 00:37:38,318
Speaker 4: I always slant towards protein. Some I just feel better,

783
00:37:38,398 --> 00:37:42,518
Speaker 4: my body feels better, and I don't. I mean for me,

784
00:37:42,598 --> 00:37:45,078
Speaker 4: I've got like all kind of weird food alergies with

785
00:37:45,118 --> 00:37:47,798
Speaker 4: my milks and creams and stuff like that, so I

786
00:37:47,878 --> 00:37:51,358
Speaker 4: prefer non creamy, non sauce foods. Oh.

787
00:37:51,438 --> 00:37:52,598
Speaker 3: I was worried there for a bit.

788
00:37:52,718 --> 00:37:56,718
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought you would turn down a steeping, steaming

789
00:37:56,798 --> 00:37:58,238
Speaker 2: bowl of delicious pasta.

790
00:37:58,318 --> 00:38:00,478
Speaker 3: But you can come. You can't say no to that.

791
00:38:01,158 --> 00:38:06,078
Speaker 4: I never said that, never said that also, our chicken

792
00:38:06,158 --> 00:38:09,238
Speaker 4: parm is unbelievable too, Like you know, most people like

793
00:38:09,598 --> 00:38:13,638
Speaker 4: Delvin editbit Ava right now, our chip jails absolutely.

794
00:38:14,798 --> 00:38:17,398
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm not sure if you saw this, Joe, But

795
00:38:17,918 --> 00:38:20,798
Speaker 2: there was an English rocker who passed away recently, Chris Ria.

796
00:38:21,198 --> 00:38:23,158
Speaker 3: If you heard of Chris Ria, I don't.

797
00:38:23,558 --> 00:38:26,438
Speaker 2: He was the guy who maybe this comes to your

798
00:38:26,478 --> 00:38:29,958
Speaker 2: mind here, fool if you think it's over, yeah, late

799
00:38:30,038 --> 00:38:33,998
Speaker 2: nineteen seventies. But he was mostly known for and I

800
00:38:33,998 --> 00:38:37,718
Speaker 2: actually had not heard of this song Driving home for Christmas.

801
00:38:38,238 --> 00:38:39,278
Speaker 3: He recorded this song.

802
00:38:39,358 --> 00:38:42,758
Speaker 2: He actually wrote it for Van Morrison in nineteen seventy eight,

803
00:38:43,318 --> 00:38:46,518
Speaker 2: and he wasn't even sure if Van Morrison ever really

804
00:38:46,598 --> 00:38:49,198
Speaker 2: saw it or he definitely didn't do anything with it.

805
00:38:49,238 --> 00:38:51,958
Speaker 2: So eight years later Chris Ria puts it out on

806
00:38:51,998 --> 00:38:54,518
Speaker 2: the B side of a single. There's probably people out

807
00:38:54,558 --> 00:38:55,678
Speaker 2: there like what is a single?

808
00:38:55,718 --> 00:38:56,798
Speaker 3: What is a B side?

809
00:38:57,518 --> 00:38:59,758
Speaker 2: But anyway, it was out there and it became a

810
00:38:59,838 --> 00:39:04,398
Speaker 2: hit for him, and you know, tragically or right, he

811
00:39:04,438 --> 00:39:07,238
Speaker 2: passed away three days before Christmas. But I had not

812
00:39:07,358 --> 00:39:10,398
Speaker 2: heard that song. Apparently it's it's really popular obviously this

813
00:39:10,478 --> 00:39:13,958
Speaker 2: time of year. Driving home for Christmas, I bring it

814
00:39:14,038 --> 00:39:17,238
Speaker 2: up Joe because he just had some quotes and reading

815
00:39:17,278 --> 00:39:20,878
Speaker 2: some stuff about him in his oh bit around here.

816
00:39:20,918 --> 00:39:23,478
Speaker 2: We'd like to talk a lot about what your intentions are, right.

817
00:39:23,838 --> 00:39:26,358
Speaker 2: We're big fans of pure intentions. You do something because

818
00:39:26,398 --> 00:39:28,798
Speaker 2: you're passionate about it, you want to do a good job.

819
00:39:28,838 --> 00:39:32,078
Speaker 2: You don't do it because it's designed to what the

820
00:39:32,158 --> 00:39:34,798
Speaker 2: result is. You're not playing for the echoes, you know,

821
00:39:34,838 --> 00:39:38,638
Speaker 2: you just want the sound of a job well done.

822
00:39:38,758 --> 00:39:41,358
Speaker 2: And he actually said and he was popular, don't get

823
00:39:41,398 --> 00:39:43,718
Speaker 2: me wrong, but he probably could have been even more popular.

824
00:39:43,918 --> 00:39:46,878
Speaker 2: He said, I'm in that unique club where I went

825
00:39:46,918 --> 00:39:50,598
Speaker 2: into music because I love music, not to be rich

826
00:39:50,718 --> 00:39:55,238
Speaker 2: and famous. Looking at my career, the progress has been slow,

827
00:39:55,838 --> 00:39:58,038
Speaker 2: mainly because I haven't gotten out of my way to

828
00:39:58,118 --> 00:40:00,878
Speaker 2: sell myself. I thought it was really pretty cool for

829
00:40:00,918 --> 00:40:03,438
Speaker 2: a guy who obviously was a very talented musician did

830
00:40:03,438 --> 00:40:07,918
Speaker 2: have success. But he was the one who said, basically,

831
00:40:07,998 --> 00:40:09,958
Speaker 2: I went to music because I love music, and that

832
00:40:10,078 --> 00:40:10,398
Speaker 2: was it.

833
00:40:10,438 --> 00:40:13,198
Speaker 3: That's pure intentions, absolutely, And I didn't.

834
00:40:13,318 --> 00:40:15,158
Speaker 4: You know. I think you got into what you did

835
00:40:15,198 --> 00:40:17,118
Speaker 4: because of that, and I think I did with mine too.

836
00:40:17,118 --> 00:40:21,678
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just the success occurs because your passion

837
00:40:21,758 --> 00:40:23,798
Speaker 4: is driven in a pure way I think. Man, I

838
00:40:23,798 --> 00:40:25,558
Speaker 4: mean I since I was six, I wanted to be

839
00:40:25,558 --> 00:40:28,038
Speaker 4: a major league baseball player, and I know that, but

840
00:40:28,318 --> 00:40:30,718
Speaker 4: as a better football player, so I get to college

841
00:40:30,758 --> 00:40:33,798
Speaker 4: because of that. But baseball is always my passion. And

842
00:40:33,838 --> 00:40:36,678
Speaker 4: then I never for once as I'm working my way

843
00:40:36,678 --> 00:40:39,478
Speaker 4: as a scout coming up and then eventually as a

844
00:40:39,478 --> 00:40:43,598
Speaker 4: minor league player, coach, manager, whatever, and then big league guy.

845
00:40:44,358 --> 00:40:49,278
Speaker 4: I always my eye was always on the ball regarding

846
00:40:49,478 --> 00:40:51,918
Speaker 4: I'm doing what I love to do. And I always

847
00:40:51,918 --> 00:40:53,918
Speaker 4: believe that if I did that well enough, all this

848
00:40:53,958 --> 00:40:56,558
Speaker 4: other stuff would take care of itself. That that was

849
00:40:56,558 --> 00:41:00,478
Speaker 4: pretty much my mantra from from the beginning, you know,

850
00:41:00,558 --> 00:41:02,558
Speaker 4: to arrive at the point that I have or did

851
00:41:03,518 --> 00:41:06,478
Speaker 4: you know? Sometimes I'll be in a situation and all

852
00:41:06,478 --> 00:41:07,838
Speaker 4: of a sudden, like the other night, we had our

853
00:41:08,158 --> 00:41:12,678
Speaker 4: big event at Alva our thanksmis dude. Within five weeks

854
00:41:12,718 --> 00:41:14,478
Speaker 4: we had almost two hundred people in that building and

855
00:41:14,558 --> 00:41:17,718
Speaker 4: raised eighty five thousand bucks for the homeless situation. It

856
00:41:17,798 --> 00:41:20,598
Speaker 4: was like, so I stepped back from that, I go, WHOA,

857
00:41:20,598 --> 00:41:24,478
Speaker 4: which just happened here? And you know, obviously it is

858
00:41:24,518 --> 00:41:27,758
Speaker 4: because a lot of it's what we've accomplished in you know,

859
00:41:28,158 --> 00:41:30,558
Speaker 4: my baseball care, et cetera, and the people that I've met.

860
00:41:30,998 --> 00:41:34,718
Speaker 4: But the intent was never that. It was only to

861
00:41:34,718 --> 00:41:37,998
Speaker 4: to fulfill this passion. You know, when you smell and

862
00:41:38,038 --> 00:41:39,798
Speaker 4: you put your glove away in a wintertime and wrap

863
00:41:39,838 --> 00:41:42,838
Speaker 4: it in a place plastic bag, put some glovolume on it,

864
00:41:42,878 --> 00:41:45,478
Speaker 4: which made it like ten pounds, which was dumb, but

865
00:41:45,518 --> 00:41:46,958
Speaker 4: then you would open every once a while just to

866
00:41:46,958 --> 00:41:49,598
Speaker 4: smell your glove. When you're a kid, right, and then

867
00:41:49,798 --> 00:41:53,038
Speaker 4: you look outside and just can't wait to get somewhat

868
00:41:53,078 --> 00:41:55,838
Speaker 4: warm enough to go out there and play catcher or

869
00:41:55,918 --> 00:41:58,478
Speaker 4: just take some batting practice. And then you go to

870
00:41:58,518 --> 00:42:00,478
Speaker 4: Connie Maax eighty for the first time, you walk through

871
00:42:00,518 --> 00:42:05,078
Speaker 4: the clown's mouth out to see this green field. That's magic.

872
00:42:05,358 --> 00:42:09,158
Speaker 4: That's magic. And I don't know that you know, children

873
00:42:09,238 --> 00:42:12,598
Speaker 4: today are able to experience the magic that we felt

874
00:42:12,918 --> 00:42:17,678
Speaker 4: only because everything's so common and ubiquitous and streamed and

875
00:42:18,278 --> 00:42:21,038
Speaker 4: it's so it's not as unique. You didn't have to

876
00:42:21,078 --> 00:42:23,638
Speaker 4: work as hard to experience these things that we had

877
00:42:23,638 --> 00:42:26,118
Speaker 4: to work so hard to experience the things that we loved.

878
00:42:26,558 --> 00:42:30,798
Speaker 4: So anyway, yeah, it was all about I've always wanted

879
00:42:30,838 --> 00:42:35,398
Speaker 4: to do this. It is my passion. Never once thought

880
00:42:35,438 --> 00:42:38,278
Speaker 4: about fame, fortune, et cetera. I just I did think

881
00:42:38,318 --> 00:42:41,518
Speaker 4: about winning. I'll say that much. Even as a kid. Well,

882
00:42:41,558 --> 00:42:43,598
Speaker 4: you played for the State Trooper Eagles and Richie and

883
00:42:43,678 --> 00:42:46,678
Speaker 4: Rabbits and sway your coaches if you not winning was

884
00:42:46,718 --> 00:42:48,758
Speaker 4: not an option. It was not an option. So that

885
00:42:48,838 --> 00:42:50,278
Speaker 4: was in bred when I was from I was ten.

886
00:42:50,958 --> 00:42:54,038
Speaker 4: But it was all based I think on more altruism

887
00:42:54,278 --> 00:42:57,198
Speaker 4: and pure intentions to do the right thing and played

888
00:42:57,198 --> 00:42:58,758
Speaker 4: a game to win. That's all we ever did.

889
00:42:58,998 --> 00:43:01,198
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean listen, winning as part of the passion.

890
00:43:01,278 --> 00:43:01,678
Speaker 5: You know that.

891
00:43:02,918 --> 00:43:05,798
Speaker 2: By the way, when Chris ray I wrote Driving Home

892
00:43:05,798 --> 00:43:09,358
Speaker 2: for Christmas, uh, he was banned from driving at the time.

893
00:43:09,558 --> 00:43:12,798
Speaker 2: He had some issues he was dealing with. And you

894
00:43:12,838 --> 00:43:15,758
Speaker 2: think about sparks of a passion Joe. For Chris Raya,

895
00:43:15,918 --> 00:43:19,358
Speaker 2: it was he heard the an album from the James Gang.

896
00:43:19,918 --> 00:43:21,798
Speaker 3: Joe watsh remember that James Gang.

897
00:43:21,918 --> 00:43:24,358
Speaker 4: Absolutely yes, and he went.

898
00:43:24,198 --> 00:43:26,998
Speaker 2: Out and bought a guitar and that that was it,

899
00:43:27,118 --> 00:43:29,798
Speaker 2: that spark of inspiration like that, just he heard it

900
00:43:29,958 --> 00:43:32,038
Speaker 2: and it was moved so much by it, went out

901
00:43:32,038 --> 00:43:35,078
Speaker 2: and bought a guitar and became a great slide guitarist.

902
00:43:35,358 --> 00:43:38,718
Speaker 4: I remember putting that tape that a track into my

903
00:43:39,438 --> 00:43:43,998
Speaker 4: sixty five Thunderbird as I was driving between jim Thorpe

904
00:43:43,998 --> 00:43:48,598
Speaker 4: and Eastern Pennsylvania, these back roads going back to school,

905
00:43:48,758 --> 00:43:51,678
Speaker 4: and I throw that James Gang tape into that eight track, man,

906
00:43:52,238 --> 00:43:53,798
Speaker 4: And those are the kind of things. I mean, you

907
00:43:53,838 --> 00:43:56,438
Speaker 4: talk about this time of the year, you're just you're

908
00:43:56,558 --> 00:43:58,518
Speaker 4: you're making it happen. But this is when I were going.

909
00:43:58,558 --> 00:44:02,558
Speaker 4: We're going back to Hazleton on on actually Christmas morning,

910
00:44:02,718 --> 00:44:06,198
Speaker 4: and as I drive from the airport back to home,

911
00:44:06,358 --> 00:44:08,718
Speaker 4: all this stuff's going to come rushing forward.

912
00:44:09,118 --> 00:44:10,198
Speaker 3: Very cool.

913
00:44:10,678 --> 00:44:12,638
Speaker 2: So that was Chris Raya, passed away at the age

914
00:44:12,678 --> 00:44:16,358
Speaker 2: of seventy four. So here we are at the ninth inning, Joe,

915
00:44:16,398 --> 00:44:17,918
Speaker 2: time to close it out. What do you have for

916
00:44:18,038 --> 00:44:19,398
Speaker 2: us today? On the Book of Joe.

917
00:44:19,838 --> 00:44:21,598
Speaker 4: You know, there was there was some quotes today about

918
00:44:21,598 --> 00:44:23,878
Speaker 4: you know, going Christmas is pretty much about going home,

919
00:44:23,918 --> 00:44:26,318
Speaker 4: and you just brought that up. But I went to

920
00:44:26,358 --> 00:44:29,398
Speaker 4: Fred Gaily Miracle on thirty fourth Street, the defense attorney

921
00:44:29,398 --> 00:44:34,798
Speaker 4: in that movie, and this is not just this's this

922
00:44:34,878 --> 00:44:37,558
Speaker 4: Christmas moment, but you know, just in our daily lives.

923
00:44:37,558 --> 00:44:40,638
Speaker 4: But this is great. Faith is believing in things when

924
00:44:40,678 --> 00:44:43,158
Speaker 4: common sense tells you not to. You know, we get

925
00:44:43,198 --> 00:44:46,638
Speaker 4: faced with that all the time on a daily basis.

926
00:44:47,558 --> 00:44:50,078
Speaker 4: Or your faith is tested, whether it's be religious faith

927
00:44:50,118 --> 00:44:52,758
Speaker 4: they you know, fath in, faith in people that you know,

928
00:44:53,598 --> 00:44:56,478
Speaker 4: faith in an industry or the industry that you may

929
00:44:56,518 --> 00:44:58,718
Speaker 4: work in, or the people that are in charge of you.

930
00:44:59,478 --> 00:45:04,398
Speaker 4: Things get tested daily. But so you have you have

931
00:45:04,438 --> 00:45:07,238
Speaker 4: to go beyond your common sensor. You know what the

932
00:45:07,278 --> 00:45:10,118
Speaker 4: general public might be parrotying or echoing at that point

933
00:45:10,198 --> 00:45:13,598
Speaker 4: the echo chamber. So believe in things when commons tells

934
00:45:13,638 --> 00:45:16,598
Speaker 4: you not to. That is true faith. And I want

935
00:45:16,638 --> 00:45:18,198
Speaker 4: to believe that I got some of that.

936
00:45:18,198 --> 00:45:20,998
Speaker 2: That is a great message, especially at this time of year.

937
00:45:21,238 --> 00:45:23,238
Speaker 2: Never losing faith, never losing faith.

938
00:45:23,438 --> 00:45:23,878
Speaker 4: That's right.

939
00:45:23,918 --> 00:45:24,678
Speaker 3: Good stuff. Joe.

940
00:45:24,798 --> 00:45:26,438
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time on the Book of Joe

941
00:45:26,478 --> 00:45:27,518
Speaker 2: and Merry Christmas.

942
00:45:27,518 --> 00:45:29,758
Speaker 4: Thank you, Tommy, Merry Christmas. And I promise you to

943
00:45:29,798 --> 00:45:31,798
Speaker 4: big old Asaignia over the next couple of days.

944
00:45:31,918 --> 00:45:32,518
Speaker 3: I can't wait.

945
00:45:41,358 --> 00:45:44,598
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeart Radio.

946
00:45:44,798 --> 00:45:48,638
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app.

947
00:45:48,718 --> 00:45:51,678
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.