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Speaker 1: Welcome to Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions. I'm Laura and I

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Speaker 1: writer and I'm Steve Derson. Steve and I are lawyers.

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Speaker 1: We fight to free people who've been wrongfully convicted, and

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Speaker 1: our specialty is false confessions. In the season one of

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Speaker 1: this podcast, we shared twelve true stories of people who

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Speaker 1: confess to crimes they didn't commit. This season, we're back

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Speaker 1: with more stories that show how injustice that starts in

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Speaker 1: the interrogation room can spread across the entire criminal justice system.

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Speaker 1: These are twelve more cases that keep us up at night.

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Speaker 1: Today's case feels like a recurring nightmare. We'll tell you

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Speaker 1: about not one, but four US Navy sailors who falsely

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Speaker 1: confess to murdering another sailor's wife. They volunteered to fight

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Speaker 1: for their country, but they ended up fighting for their

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Speaker 1: own freedom.

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Speaker 2: The Norfolk Fort is an iconic case because it is

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Speaker 2: one of the most colossal screw ups in the history

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Speaker 2: of American justice. I never thought this case would go

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Speaker 2: to trial, but it did and they were convicted, and

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Speaker 2: I was stunned.

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Speaker 1: When you think about these guys from all across the

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Speaker 1: United States who signed up to serve their country in

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Speaker 1: the military, and this is what they were handed. It's outrageous.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Steve, you've had family members in the military.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my father served and he enlisted less than six

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Speaker 2: months after his own brother was killed at Iwo Jima.

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Speaker 2: I grew up. Every Memorial Day we would gather by

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Speaker 2: my uncle's graveside, and these men in uniform would fire

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Speaker 2: rifles into the air, and I can still hear how

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Speaker 2: loud they were to like a seven year old kid.

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Speaker 2: The military was something that was respected in my household.

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Speaker 2: You know, the military is built on honor.

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Speaker 1: The truth is every one of the Norfolk four was

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Speaker 1: there to serve his country, and instead their reputations and

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Speaker 1: their lives were dragged through the mud.

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Speaker 2: It's like a war zone at the end of this case,

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Speaker 2: with bodies strewn all over the place.

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Speaker 1: But nobody won.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Everybody was a casualty. It took twenty years

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Speaker 2: to right this wrong completely, and it never should have

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Speaker 2: happened in the first place.

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Speaker 1: Today's story starts at the US Naval station in Norfolk, Virginia.

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Speaker 1: It's the world's largest naval base, the headquarters of the

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Speaker 1: Fleet Forces Command, and it all sits on a narrow

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Speaker 1: peninsula separating the Chesapeake Bay from the Atlantic Ocean. That's

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Speaker 1: where the USS Simpson docs at Peer five on July eighth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, after six days at sea. Among the

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Speaker 1: hundreds of sailors on board is built Tillie Bosco, a

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Speaker 1: nineteen year old signalman. As his ship maneuvers into place,

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Speaker 1: Billy is scanning the pier. He's hoping to find his

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Speaker 1: eighteen year old bride, Michelle, waiting for him. Billy and

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Speaker 1: Michelle were high school sweethearts from Pittsburgh who'd been married

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Speaker 1: for just three months. They'd met a few years earlier

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Speaker 1: on the school bus when Billy's eye was caught by

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Speaker 1: Michelle's red hair. He tried to impress her by saying, hey, Toots,

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Speaker 1: nice jacket, but it was her quick response, my name's

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Speaker 1: Michelle that impressed him. Pretty soon they became inseparable. After graduating,

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Speaker 1: Billy enlisted in the navy. Michelle followed him to Norfolk,

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Speaker 1: where they got married. But when Billy's ship docks that day,

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Speaker 1: there's no Michelle waiting for him. He goes straight home

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Speaker 1: to their tiny apartment off base. Michelle usually kept the

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Speaker 1: place spotlessly clean, but today is horribly different. On the

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Speaker 1: bedroom floor, Billy finds his wife dead, wearing nothing but

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Speaker 1: a black T shirt and found it by blood. She's

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Speaker 1: been raped, stabbed, and strangled. Billy searches for the phone,

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Speaker 1: but in his panic, he can't find it. Instead, he

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Speaker 1: runs next door to the apartment of another naval couple,

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Speaker 1: Daniel and Nicole Williams. Billy tells them his wife is dead,

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Speaker 1: and Daniel calls nine one one. The two men go

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Speaker 1: back to the scene, where they put a blanket over

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Speaker 1: Michelle's legs. Police arrive just minutes later. There are no

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Speaker 1: signs of forest entry, so police theorized that Michelle knew

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Speaker 1: her attacker and had let him in. They ask Michelle's

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Speaker 1: friends who might have done this. No one has any ideas.

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Speaker 1: The police keep pressing, though, and one friend finally mentions

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Speaker 1: the neighbor, Daniel Williams. Daniel was a twenty five year

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Speaker 1: old sailor from Michigan who'd also just gotten married. But

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Speaker 1: Daniel and his wife, Nicole, had recently gotten some terrible news.

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Speaker 1: They had thought Nichole was expecting, but she wasn't pregnant

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Speaker 1: after all. Instead, she was dying of ovarian cancer. Daniel,

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Speaker 1: grief stricken but the police had ideas of their own

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Speaker 1: about how he was handling it. They developed a theory

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Speaker 1: that Daniel had become interested in Michelle. It's only been

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Speaker 1: an hour and a half since Michelle's body was found,

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Speaker 1: but police are somehow already convinced they've got their man.

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Speaker 1: With no other leads, police ask Daniel Williams to come

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Speaker 1: down to the station. They tell him it's normal to

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Speaker 1: question anyone who'd been involved in discovering a body, and

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Speaker 1: Daniel finds himself alone in an interrogation room, totally unprepared

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Speaker 1: for what's about to happen.

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Speaker 3: This is the worst type of crime you can imagine,

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Speaker 3: not only a murder, but a murder rape of a

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Speaker 3: young woman. And these are the kinds of cases that

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Speaker 3: really get the adrenaline of police departments up.

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Speaker 1: That's our friend Richard Leo, one of the globes leading

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Speaker 1: experts on false confessions. He's also co authored a book

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Speaker 1: about the Norfolk four.

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Speaker 3: It's entrenched in the police culture that when you interrogate,

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Speaker 3: it's because your goal is to get a confession. We

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Speaker 3: all think an innocent person wouldn't falsely confess, So it's

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Speaker 3: a puzzle why would people do something that none of

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Speaker 3: us think we would do.

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Speaker 1: Some of you may remember our explanation of how false

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Speaker 1: confessions happen from last season. If you're new to this podcast,

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Speaker 1: you can check out our first episode, or Steve and

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Speaker 1: I take a deep dive into the interrogation room. Here's

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Speaker 1: how it goes. For Daniel Williams, police accuse him of

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Speaker 1: raping and killing Michelle Bosco, and Daniel says he had

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with it. They ask him to take

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Speaker 1: a polygraph and he agrees. He wants to prove his innocence.

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Speaker 1: But police lie to Daniel. They tell him he failed

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Speaker 1: the polygraph, when he really passed it. They say the

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Speaker 1: polygraph proves he's guilty.

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Speaker 3: Polygraphs, in any event, are highly unreliable. They're not scientific

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Speaker 3: what police pretend they are. You give a suspect polygraph,

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Speaker 3: you tell them the results indicate that they're lying, and

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Speaker 3: that the machine is scientific and error free. So it's

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Speaker 3: an effective interrogation technique in breaking down somebody's resistance and

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Speaker 3: denials because science has just proven beyond any doubt that

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Speaker 3: they are guilty.

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Speaker 1: Daniel's scared as hell. It's dawning on him that the

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Speaker 1: police will never believe he's innocent. They insist that Daniel

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Speaker 1: needs to admit he attacked Michelle. The interrogation goes on

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Speaker 1: overnight for eight hours, but Daniel won't say he did it.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 1: None of the interrogation was taped, so we don't have

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Speaker 1: a perfect record of what happened, but we do know

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Speaker 1: that by early morning Daniel still hadn't confessed. So police

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Speaker 1: bring in a closer, an interrogator who knows how to

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Speaker 1: get confessions, and according to Daniel, that's when things get

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Speaker 1: really rough.

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Speaker 2: So the detective who was the primary instigator in this

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Speaker 2: case was a man named Detective Ford, and Daniel Williams

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Speaker 2: was not equipped to deal with his high stress interrogation tactics.

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Speaker 1: According to Daniel, the detective suggests that he'd been attracted

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Speaker 1: to Michelle, he couldn't have sex with his dying wife

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Speaker 1: as much as he wanted to. Ford says, maybe Daniel

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Speaker 1: wanted an affair with Michelle and he went to her

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Speaker 1: apartment to get it.

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Speaker 2: Daniel went from the joy of finding someone to spend

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Speaker 2: the rest of his life with to knowing that his

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Speaker 2: wife was going to die a painful and miserable death

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Speaker 2: in all likelihood, In the middle of that, he's accused

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Speaker 2: of sexually assaulting and murdering his neighbor. Unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: The interrogation only gets worse from there. Daniels told the

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Speaker 1: evidence against him is rock solid. The death penalty is

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Speaker 1: on the table, Ford tells him unless he cooperates with

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Speaker 1: police and.

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Speaker 2: Confesses, Daniel is essentially assaulted with threats of the death penalty,

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Speaker 2: lies about the evidence against him, screaming, shouting, breaking him down,

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Speaker 2: accusing him of being a liar, and after a long

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Speaker 2: period of time, and you'll agrees to a preconceived story

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Speaker 2: that was fed to him by Detective Ford.

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Speaker 1: That's when police finally turned on the tape recorder.

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Speaker 5: I got her in the back room and I forced

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Speaker 5: her to the floor and I forced her to have

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Speaker 5: intercourse with me. She resisted, and I hit her a

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Speaker 5: couple of times with my hand. I grabbed a flat,

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Speaker 5: hard shoe and I struck her with it once and

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Speaker 5: I got up and I left.

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Speaker 1: Soon enough, though, police realized they've got a problem while

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Speaker 1: they recording dan Neill's confession. The autopsy report comes back

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Speaker 1: and they learned Michelle hadn't been beaten with a shoe.

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Speaker 1: She'd actually been stabbed, So now police have to feed

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Speaker 1: Daniel a news story.

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Speaker 5: So you stabbed the proximate three times? Is that greg

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Speaker 5: that is cured.

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Speaker 3: People look at these confessions and say, well, geez, you know,

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Speaker 3: they described the crime scene, they described the weapon. People

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Speaker 3: don't know that when an innocent person is broken down

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Speaker 3: and falsely confesses, the police fed them the crime facts

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Speaker 3: and the person, after many hours, repeated that back.

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Speaker 1: By seven o'clock the next morning, Daniel Williams has become

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Speaker 1: a confessed killer. He's arrested and calls his mom right

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Speaker 1: away from jail to recant his confession, but it's too late.

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Speaker 1: Daniel is charged with capital murder, meaning the death penalty

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Speaker 1: is on the table, and the Norfolk Police close the case.

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Speaker 1: The case stayed closed for all of four months. That's

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Speaker 1: when results came back from a DNA test on the

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Speaker 1: scene found on Michelle's body. It was a single mail

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Speaker 1: profile that didn't belong to Daniel Williams.

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Speaker 2: Game over. This is the kind of evidence that exonerates defendants.

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Speaker 2: All of the.

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Speaker 1: Time, Dan should have been on his way home.

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Speaker 2: He and his wife should have been able to spend

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Speaker 2: her remaining days together.

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Speaker 1: His confession was false. The DNA proved it, but the

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Speaker 1: police refused to let go of their belief in Daniel's guilt. Instead,

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Speaker 1: they developed a new theory. Another man must have been

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Speaker 1: there too, and before long they picked out a second suspect.

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Speaker 6: This episode is sponsored by AIG, a leading global insurance company,

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Speaker 6: and Paul Weiss Rifkin, Wharton and Garrison, a leading international

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Speaker 6: law firm. The AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal

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Speaker 6: services and other support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals

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Speaker 6: most in need, and recently they announced that working to

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Speaker 6: reform the criminal justice system will become a key pillar

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Speaker 6: of the program's mission. Paul Weiss has long had an

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Speaker 6: unwavering commitment to providing impactful pro bono legal assistance to

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Speaker 6: the most vulnerable members of our society and in support

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Speaker 6: of the public interest, including extensive work in the criminal

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Speaker 6: justice area.

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Speaker 1: Joe Dick was twenty one, a Navy sailor who rented

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Speaker 1: a room from Daniel and Nicole Williams. Joe had grown

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Speaker 1: up in Baltimore with major intellectual disabilities that made him

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Speaker 1: think more like a child. Joe was eager to please

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Speaker 1: and very easy to intimidate. As a high schooler, he

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Speaker 1: worked at his church mowing the lawn until one day

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Speaker 1: when the mower clogged, Joe reached inside and the blade

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Speaker 1: cut off a couple of his fingers. After that, whenever

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Speaker 1: his high school shop teachers told him to use machinery

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Speaker 1: that he didn't understand, Joe would hide until class was over. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: Joe couldn't hide from Detective Ford. Six months after Michelle's death,

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Speaker 1: naval security turns Joe over for interrogation. Detective Ford accuses

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Speaker 1: Joe of helping Daniel kill Michelle Bosco. Now Joe is

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Speaker 1: really confused because he remembers being on his ship the

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Speaker 1: night Michelle was killed. But again, Ford administers a polygraph

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Speaker 1: and says Joe failed. Ford shows Joe a picture of

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Speaker 1: Michelle lying dead on the floor and says he'll get

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Speaker 1: the death penalty unless he admits helping Daniel kill her.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty clear there's only one story Ford will accept.

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Speaker 3: Innocent suspects come to see their situation as hopeless, that

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Speaker 3: there's no way out other than to give the interrogator

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Speaker 3: what they want, and the interrogator is offering them a

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Speaker 3: way out by suggesting they can go home, or they'll

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Speaker 3: mitigate their damage, or they can just put an end

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Speaker 3: to it the interrogation. Most people don't know police are

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Speaker 3: trained in these manipulative techniques. And of course, if the

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Speaker 3: police have the right person, that's a good thing as

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Speaker 3: long as they follow the law. But sometimes they get

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Speaker 3: the wrong person.

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Speaker 1: Soon enough, Detective Forward turns on the recorder and Joe

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Speaker 1: Dick confesses to helping Daniel rape and murder Michelle Bosco.

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Speaker 1: At least he does the best he can.

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Speaker 7: Why did you two take it upon yourselves to rape

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Speaker 7: and murder this one.

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Speaker 4: Don't know? Didn't you describe the knife? All I can

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Speaker 4: say about the knife is it looked like a normal

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Speaker 4: kitchen knife that you would use for made or song

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Speaker 4: to Charlotte.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Joe Dick is slow and low functioning and highly suggestible,

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Speaker 3: and these are personality traits that make somebody more vulnerable

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Speaker 3: to making false confessions. And so it took less time

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Speaker 3: to break Joe Dick than it took to break the others.

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Speaker 2: Joe Dick was even less equipped to deal with the

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Speaker 2: interrogation tactics of Detective Ford. He was a follower in

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Speaker 2: the truest sense of the word, and Detective Ford took

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Speaker 2: advantage of that.

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Speaker 1: Based on his confession, Joe is charged with capital murder

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Speaker 1: as Daniel's co defendant. The police were sure that this

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Speaker 1: time they'd closed the case. Then within weeks Joe's DNA

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Speaker 1: is compared to this seaman from the crime scene. Turns

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Speaker 1: out the DNA doesn't belong to him either. Neither Joe

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Speaker 1: Dick nor Daniel Williams could have been the attacker, but

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Speaker 1: instead of looking outside their circle of suspects, police decide

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Speaker 1: to expand it. They insist that Daniel and Joe must

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Speaker 1: still be guilty, but now they decide a third man

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Speaker 1: must have been involved too.

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Speaker 2: You know, when faced with compelling evidence of innocence, compelling

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Speaker 2: evidence that your theory is wrong, you should be examining

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Speaker 2: the theory, not trying to reinterpret facts to create a

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Speaker 2: new theory which accommodates the DNA evidence. We see this

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Speaker 2: over and over again. When prosecutions start changing their theories

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Speaker 2: in midstream, you have to be very concerned that an

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Speaker 2: injustice is about to happen.

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Speaker 1: By this point, two injustices had already happened, and more

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Speaker 1: were still to come. Joe's lawyer told him that his

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Speaker 1: best hope of escaping the electric chair would be if

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Speaker 1: he identified one more perpetrator. Pretty soon, Joe came up

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Speaker 1: with a third name, Eric Wilson, and on April eighth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, Eric became the next domino waiting to fall.

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Speaker 1: Eric Wilson was a twenty one year old naval recruit

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Speaker 1: from Texas. He was an eagle scout, the kind of

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Speaker 1: guy who'd walk girls home from parties when their dates

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Speaker 1: got too drunk. On a detective Ford starts interrogating Eric

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Speaker 1: Wilson once again. Ford administers a polygraph and tells Eric

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Speaker 1: he flunked it, just like with Joe. Ford slaps a

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Speaker 1: picture of Michelle's dead body on the table and says

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Speaker 1: he can prove Eric helped Daniel and Joe commit the crime.

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Speaker 1: It was all bullshit. Eric barely even knew Daniel or Joe.

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Speaker 1: But after hours in the interrogation room, Eric starts to

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Speaker 1: doubt his own memory. Maybe he really was lying and

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Speaker 1: didn't realize it.

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Speaker 3: People come to doubt themselves and their memories or beliefs

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Speaker 3: in interrogations. It's a high pressure game of deception, manipulation,

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Speaker 3: persuasion to get people who deny committing a crime to

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Speaker 3: confess to committing it.

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Speaker 1: Eventually, Eric agrees to the cop story. Detective Ford turns

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Speaker 1: on the recorder and Eric repeats what he's been told

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Speaker 1: that he, Joe and Daniel raped Michelle, but he says

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Speaker 1: he left before the stabbing started.

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Speaker 4: I grabbed Michelle by given the shoulders are the upper arm.

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Speaker 4: I can't remember exactly. I didn't know what to do.

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Speaker 4: I was real confused. Well, Dan ended up Rapinger and

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Speaker 4: Levi went in next, and I started.

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Speaker 1: And soon enough Eric Wilson is charged as capital defendant

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Speaker 1: number three.

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Speaker 3: He said that the interrogation was so coercive that he

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Speaker 3: would have said anything. If they had told him that

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Speaker 3: he needed to confess to the killing of John F. Kennedy,

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Speaker 3: he would have said he handed Oswald the gun. He

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Speaker 3: would have said anything just to get out of there.

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Speaker 3: At the end of many, many hours that broke him down.

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Speaker 1: But again, weeks past, the DNA is tested and yet

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Speaker 1: again it's not a match. By mid June, police are

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Speaker 1: looking for a fourth man.

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Speaker 2: Zero for three. This is bad enough for Joe Dick

306
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Speaker 2: and Dan Williams and Eric Wilson. Imagine what it's like

307
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Speaker 2: for Billy Bosco. The worst possible nightmare you can imagine,

308
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Speaker 2: But it only gets worse because please keep telling him,

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Speaker 2: it's not just one person that raped and killed your wife,

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Speaker 2: it's two and then three. She's being violated over and

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Speaker 2: over again. He has to relive the trauma every time.

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Speaker 2: The police bring in somebody else to this story, and

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Speaker 2: it's all a lie.

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Speaker 1: To find their fourth man, police go back to Joe Dick.

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Speaker 1: After a lot more questioning, Joe offers another name, George Clark.

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Speaker 1: Now police have no idea who George Clark might be,

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Speaker 1: or if this person even exists, so they bring Joe

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Speaker 1: an old Navy yearbook. Joe flips through it and points

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Speaker 1: to a picture of a former sailor named Derek Tice. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Joe says, that looks like him. Derek Tye was born

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Speaker 1: in North Carolina, a Southerner who called his elder sir

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Speaker 1: and ma'am. Derek was really smart, but he had a

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Speaker 1: learning disability and never did well in school. He scraped

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Speaker 1: through graduation and enlisted in the Navy to get trained

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Speaker 1: as a paramedic. But now it's Derek Tice's turn to

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Speaker 1: be questioned by Detective Ford. When Derek says he knows

327
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Speaker 1: nothing about Michelle Bosco's murder, Ford falsely tells Derek that

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Speaker 1: physical evidence had already proven him guilty.

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Speaker 3: Police routinely pretend to have evidence they don't have, state

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Speaker 3: that there is evidence that doesn't exist. That's an acceptable

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Speaker 3: technique in American policing. In the American legal system, unlike

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Speaker 3: in other legal systems.

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Speaker 1: Ford follows the same playbook that he used on the

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Speaker 1: other three. He administers a polygraph and tells Derek he

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Speaker 1: failed it again. Ford threatens Derek with the death penalty

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Speaker 1: unless he confesses. After nearly twelve hours of this, Derek

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Speaker 1: agrees to confess. Just like the others on tape, He

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Speaker 1: repeats the story that Ford tells him that he committed

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Speaker 1: the rape and murder along with Daniel, Joe, and Eric.

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Speaker 1: This story is enough for Derek to become the fourth

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Speaker 1: man charged with the attack on Michelle Bosco.

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Speaker 8: Why did you all agree to go with him? I

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Speaker 8: agree because of peer blessure. I can't say one of

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Speaker 8: the others did. I believe it is for the same reason.

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Speaker 1: You can probably guess what I'm about to tell you Next.

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Speaker 1: The DNA is tested yet again and it doesn't belong

347
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Speaker 1: to Derek either.

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Speaker 2: This is false Confession number four. Laura I know you

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Speaker 2: don't know much about baseball.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I do know that no one gets a

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Speaker 1: fourth strike.

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Speaker 2: You don't get a fourth strike in baseball, and you

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Speaker 2: don't get a fourth strike in law enforcement. It's time

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Speaker 2: to call this game. It's time to end this charade.

355
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Speaker 1: All four sailors have been proven innocent by DNA, but

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Speaker 1: prosecutors ignore the evidence and move forward with cases against

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Speaker 1: all of them. Daniel Williams, Joe Dick, Eric Wilson, and

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Speaker 1: Erick Tice become known as the Norfolk Four. As prosecutors

359
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Speaker 1: got ready to try the Norfolk Four, the case took

360
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Speaker 1: a serious twist. On February twenty second, nineteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: a prison inmate named Omar Ballard sent a letter to

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Speaker 1: his friend. In it, Ballard mentioned Michelle Bosco's murder and wrote,

363
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Speaker 1: guess who did that me? Omar Ballard was in prison

364
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Speaker 1: for raping a fourteen year old girl and for beating

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Speaker 1: up one of Michelle Bosco's female neighbors a few weeks

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Speaker 1: before Michelle died. In fact, right after he'd committed the assault,

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Speaker 1: Ballard had been chased through the apartment complex by an

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Speaker 1: angry crowd eager to exact revenge. To protect him from

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Speaker 1: the mob. Michelle let Ballard hide in her and Billy's

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Speaker 1: apartment until things calm down. Two weeks later, Michelle was

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Speaker 1: killed in that same apartment by someone she knew. Police

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Speaker 1: brought Ballard in from prison for questioning. This time, it

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Speaker 1: didn't take a polygraph to get a confession. Ballard admitted

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Speaker 1: to raping and stabbing Michelle Bosco, and he insisted that

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Speaker 1: he acted alone. Most importantly, police finally had their DNA match.

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Speaker 1: The seaman at the crime scene belonged to Omar Ballard.

377
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Speaker 9: I don't know. I guess something just tacked to my

378
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Speaker 9: head and I went to the kitchen and got a knife,

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Speaker 9: went back to the room. She was getting ab off

380
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Speaker 9: the big or she was already above the big when

381
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Speaker 9: I stabbed in the chairs one time, and when she

382
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Speaker 9: got on the floor. I think I staid about two

383
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Speaker 9: or three more times. I'm not quite sure was anybody

384
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Speaker 9: with you during this defense?

385
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Speaker 2: No police officers were handed the true perpetrator on a

386
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 2: silver platter. The wake up call was handling to them literally.

387
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 2: Omar Ballard confessed to this crime and then DNA matched

388
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Speaker 2: him before trial.

389
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Speaker 1: Walk away, but prosecutors wouldn't walk away. Instead, they offered

390
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Speaker 1: Joe Dick a plea deal if he testified that everyone

391
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: else had been there along with Ballard. For Joe, the

392
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Speaker 1: death penalty would be off the table. It worked. Joe

393
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Speaker 1: Dick pled guilty and agreed to testify against the others

394
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Speaker 1: as he'd been told. In short order, Derek Tice was

395
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Speaker 1: convicted of murder and Eric Wilson was convicted of rape.

396
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Speaker 1: As for Daniel Williams, he'd pled guilty to both rape

397
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Speaker 1: and murder only a few weeks before Ballard's letter turned up. Daniel, Joe,

398
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Speaker 1: and Derek all received life in prison. Eric Wilson was

399
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: sentenced to eight and a half years for rape.

400
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Speaker 3: There was just something almost Twilight Zone like about this case.

401
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 3: You had four people in prison for a rape and murder.

402
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 3: The DNA evidence did not link to any of them,

403
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 3: and it linked to somebody else who had a history

404
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,479
Speaker 3: of violent crime and rape, and he admitted that he

405
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 3: did it.

406
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Speaker 1: At his own trial. In two thousand, Omar Ballard pled

407
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: guilty to killing Michelle Bosco, but the prosecution also made

408
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: a deal with him in exchange for a sentence of

409
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,239
Speaker 1: life rather than death. Ballard told the court that the

410
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 1: Norfolk four had participated in the attack. It was the

411
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: only time he implicated any of them. Back in prison,

412
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: Ballard returned to his original story over and over. He

413
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: insisted that he was the sole perpetrator. That was enough

414
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: for several large law firms to start reinvestigating the Norfolk

415
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: Four's convictions. In September two thousand and five, Eric Wilson

416
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: was paroled after serving his full sentence, and in two

417
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Speaker 1: thousand and nine, Virginia Governor Tim Kaine granted a conditional

418
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: pardon to Derek, Daniel and Joe based on the weakness

419
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: of the case against them. So all of the Northlok

420
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: four were out of prison, but they were still living

421
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: as convicted murderers and sex offenders. They still had to

422
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 1: win exoneration. Derek Tye was the first to be granted

423
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 1: a new trial in two thousand and nine. His lawyers

424
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: found evidence that he had tried to ask for a

425
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: lawyer during questioning, but he wasn't given one in violation

426
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: of his Miranda rights. Before Derek could be retried, two

427
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: more bombshells dropped. First, a PBS Frontline episode about the

428
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: Norfolk Four aired in twenty ten, featuring none other than

429
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: Omar Ballard. During an interview from behind bars, Ballard insisted

430
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: he had acted alone. The second bombshell had to do

431
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: with Detective Ford. In twenty ten, a federal jury convicted

432
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: Ford of extortion. He'd gotten criminal defendants to pay him

433
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: to say they deserved shorter sentences because they'd given valuable information.

434
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: Ford was sentenced to more than twelve years in prison.

435
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: That was enough to convince prosecutors not to retry Derek Tye,

436
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: and he became came the first of the Norfolk four

437
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: to win exoneration. In twenty sixteen, a federal court held

438
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: a hearing to determine whether Daniel Williams and Joe Dick

439
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,959
Speaker 1: were innocent too. At that hearing, Joe's commanding officer testified

440
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 1: that Joe had been on duty the night of Michelle

441
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: Bosco's death and couldn't have killed her. It was testimony

442
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: that never came out before because Joe had been persuaded

443
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: to plead guilty. In light of this evidence and everything

444
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: else that didn't make sense, the judge granted Daniel and

445
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: Joe new trials too. By any measure, the judge wrote,

446
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: the evidence shows their innocence. No sane human being could

447
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: find them guilty. The prosecution took the hint. On December fifteenth,

448
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, they decided not to retry Daniel or Joe either.

449
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 1: The only one left was Eric Wilson. Eric's turn came

450
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: just a few months later. On March twenty first, twenty seventeen,

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00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: Governor Terry mccaliffe granted absolute pardons to each of the

452
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: four men, removing all doubt. Finally, after twenty years of hell,

453
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: the Norfolk Four were exonerated.

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00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 3: Counterintuitively, the Norfolk Four are lucky. They spent many years

455
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 3: in prison based on false confessions to crimes they didn't commit,

456
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 3: but there was DNA in their case and they got out.

457
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 3: These are all earnest, honest, down to earth individuals who

458
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 3: serve their country well, whose wrongful convictions took the best

459
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 3: years of their lives for almost two decades before they

460
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 3: were exonerated.

461
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: The Norfolk Four survived a battle they should never have

462
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: had to fight, and now they're rebuilding their lives. Hello, Dan,

463
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: this is Laura and Steve. How are you.

464
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 2: It's so nice to finally get a chance to talk

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00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 2: to you. Dad.

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00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 7: Thank you.

467
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: Are you living in Michigan? Are you living in Virginia.

468
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 7: I'm currently living in Michigan.

469
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: Now keeps you busy these days?

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00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 7: After my incarceration. After I got home, I went to

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00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 7: Baker College of Lasso and got my associate's degree and

472
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 7: applied science for welding.

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00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 2: Wonderful. Have you been able to stay working?

474
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 7: I have not stopped working yet.

475
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 2: That is phenomenal.

476
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: Let's see, you're a Michigan guy. Are you born and

477
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: raised in Michigan? Yes?

478
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 2: Okay.

479
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: What kind of fishing you like to do? What are

480
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: you go fishing for?

481
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 7: Usually panfish and bass?

482
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: Yeap lakes or streams?

483
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 8: Usually lakes.

484
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 2: Did you ever cook the fish you catch?

485
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 6: Dan?

486
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 3: All the time?

487
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 7: Cooking is something that I do enjoy. Also, since getting out,

488
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 7: I have been cooking at our local BFW in Alasso Sunday.

489
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: Breakfast, pancake breakfast, that kind of thing everything.

490
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, pancakes, French toast, eggs to order, omelets, breakfast, burrito.

491
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: You're grill man, yes, and you're at the so you're

492
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: there with other guys who are in the service. Yes,

493
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: it's nice to be with guys with the same experience.

494
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 7: I usually just live life one day at a time

495
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 7: right now and stay im positive.

496
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: One day at a time is pretty good. These days,

497
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: it sounds.

498
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 2: Like to me, the idea that it took so long

499
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 2: to right these wrongs is just hard to fathom. You know,

500
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 2: we claim we care about those in the military, we

501
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 2: care about our vets, and what was done to these

502
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: men is just beyond the pale.

503
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: Too often it's a fight to exonerate even people who

504
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: are obviously innocent. But it's a fight that's got to

505
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: be one. That's our life's work, freeing false confessors and

506
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: sharing their stories with you. For Dan, Joe, Eric and Derek,

507
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: that's the least we can do. Thank you for serving

508
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: our country and for letting your stories serve in the

509
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: fight against wrongful convictions. That's the story of the Norfolk Four.

510
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: Join us next week when we'll tell you about Henry

511
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: McCollum and Leon Brown, two brothers who were wrongfully convicted

512
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,719
Speaker 1: of the same murder. Their convictions were held up by

513
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: a Supreme Court justice as perfect examples of why we

514
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: have the death penalty, but the case was built on

515
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: false confessions. Wrongful conviction. False Confessions is a production of

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00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number

517
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: one Special thanks to our executive producers Jason Flamm and

518
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: Kevin Wardis. Our production team is headed by senior producer

519
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: Anne Pope, along with producers Joshi Hammer and Jess Shane.

520
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: Our show is mixed by Genie Montalvo. John Colbert is

521
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: our intrepid intern. Our music was composed by Jay Ralph.

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00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: You can follow me on Instagram or Twitter at Laura

523
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: and I.

524
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 2: Wrider, and you can follow me on Twitter at Sdrizzen.

525
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: For more information on the show, visit wrongfulconvictionpodcast dot com.

526
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 2: Be sure to

527
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: Follow the show on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook

528
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at wrong Conviction