1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: In early two thousand, eBay was still a little bit 2 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: of a novelty. The auction site hadn't even introduced the 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: buy it Now feature four items. If you wanted something, 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: you had to wait days until bidding ended, and you 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,319 Speaker 1: had to hope you had the highest offer. Sniping, or 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: the act of bidding at the last possible second, could rip. 7 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: Some prized would be possession out of your grasp, especially 8 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: if someone had a broadband connection with blazing fast internet 9 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: speeds instead of you know, dial up. eBay was also 10 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: becoming a hot market for comic books. Before eBay, if 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: you wanted to buy a rare comic, you'd have to 12 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: go to an auction in person, or attend a comic 13 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: convention or by a trade publication and scan their list 14 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: of comics. Then may you and in order with a check. 15 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: But Eva was changing all that. It was democratizing the 16 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: buying and selling of collectibles. That's important to know in 17 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:17,279 Speaker 1: order to understand what happens next. As you'll recall, comic 18 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: book dealer Stephen Fishler got a frantic phone call from 19 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: Nicholas Cage, who explained his three most prized comic books, 20 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: worth hundreds of thousands of dollars had been stolen. Action 21 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: Comics number one, Detective Comics Number twenty seven, and the 22 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: lesser valued but still important Detective Comics Number one vanished 23 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: without trace from his house in a gated community in 24 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: bel Air. No leads, no suspects, just a despondent cage 25 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: staring at empty wall frames that had once housed the 26 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: debuts of Superman and Batman. Stephen, of course, was key 27 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: bring an eye on the collector's community, looking for any 28 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: sign of the stolen books coming onto the market. He 29 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: owned his own place, Metropolis Collectibles in New York, but 30 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: the chances of the thief strolling into his business were slim. Still, 31 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: Stephen kept looking. Hope was the only currency he had 32 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: at the moment, and look optimism is a defining Superman trait. 33 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 1: One day, a collector showed Stephen one of his newer acquisitions. 34 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: It was a copy of Marvel Mystery Comics number seventy one, 35 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: dated April. The original human Torch is flying through the air. 36 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: A number of characters from ancient Egypt are shocked by 37 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: his appearance. His young side kick, Tora, who is also 38 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,839 Speaker 1: on flare, is sacking someone in the gut. Another man 39 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: appears to be reviving Cleopatra from her sarcophagus, injecting her 40 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: with a strange serum. It's your typical Golden Age comic cover, 41 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: lots of disparate elements stitched together to compel a kid 42 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: to spend his one and only dime to see how 43 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: the hell any of this made sense These days. It's 44 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: a desirable comic, though not one of the most sought after. 45 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: Some people chase it just because the cover is cool, 46 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: A dynamic composition by Golden Age artist Alex Schomberg. What's 47 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: with the Egyptians? Well, it was just after World War 48 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: Two and comics needed new villains to employ. But something 49 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: else about it seemed strange to Stephen. Not just the 50 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: fact that to self immolating heroes were punching ancient Egyptians. 51 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: Besides that, here's Stephen to explain. He showed it to me. 52 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: It's a well known collector in New York, and I went, weird, 53 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: you get this book? And then you said, I got 54 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: it from this woman, and I'm looking at it. I'm 55 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: looking at it. This is impossible. I sold this book. 56 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: How could Stephen possibly know that there were hundreds of 57 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: copies of Marvel Mysteries number seventy one out there that 58 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: had survived being thrown away by parents. But this one 59 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: was different. Inside on the first page was a handwritten 60 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: sequence of numbers and letters seven eight four one dash 61 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:36,239 Speaker 1: D dash three to zero. It's an old comic book. 62 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: Kids wrote or drew all kinds of things on them 63 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: before they realized. Some of them could put their kids 64 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: through college. But this isn't just a doodo. It's legendary 65 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: in the comic book collector's community because it means the 66 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: comic belonged to the d collection, one of the most 67 00:04:54,800 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: comprehensive ever assembled. It's a pedigree like a fingerprint. The 68 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: person who bought this comic book and thousands of others 69 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: wrote a code on the first page of everyone he 70 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: bought as a teenager and young adult. There's only one 71 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: Marvel Mystery Comics number with those numbers inside, and it 72 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: once belonged to a collector. Stephen Fishler knew, well, this 73 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: was exactly a book that I had sold Nick that 74 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: somehow left his house. Someone hadn't stolen three comics from 75 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: Nicholas Cage. Someone had stolen four for I Heart Radio. 76 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: This is stealing Superman I'm your host, Danis Schwartz, and 77 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: this is episode two, four empty frames. As soon as 78 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: Stephen got a look at the Marvel Mystery, it was 79 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: his turn to call Cage and a near panic. It 80 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: was possible he was somehow mistaken that he misremembered selling 81 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,799 Speaker 1: it to him, that maybe it wasn't the d copy 82 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: Cage had bought, but no Cage confirmed it. He had 83 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: had a Marvel Mystery and now it was gone somehow. 84 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: In the chaotic aftermath of the heist, he hadn't noticed 85 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,799 Speaker 1: it missing. Everyone's attention had been on the Big Two, 86 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: Action number one and Detective number twenty seven. No one 87 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: had noticed the weird Egypt meets Marvel comic had vanished too. 88 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: Nick had a run of Marvel Mystery and the only 89 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: Marvel Mystery missing from the house it was Marvel seventy one. 90 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: He had one through ninety two, I believe, but missing 91 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: the seventy one. And I said, well it was the 92 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: seventy one was taken out of the house. We're a book, 93 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: I went, that's it was a pedigree book with very 94 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: unique markings. It's the same book. So who was this 95 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: woman on eBay had sold the book to his collector friend. 96 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: eBay seller profiles usually have scant information. People can be 97 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: as anonymous as they like. For the most part, you 98 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: might buy something, even something worth thousands, and not have 99 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: any more information about the seller than that their screen 100 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: name is Biceps Due. There's just one exception. An eBay 101 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: profile usually offers up the user's city and state. The seller, 102 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: the one with cages book was in Connecticut and obviously 103 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: connected it to the theft. There's no way if I 104 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: sold in this book that a woman in Connecticut would 105 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: have ended up with. But that's how it happened. So 106 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: that was the only lead that I had. Somehow, in 107 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: the span of just a couple of months, this book 108 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: had been taken from cages home and been delivered miles 109 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: away and then wound up on eBay. A few fouls 110 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: it a monumental book on its own, but it just 111 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: was a book that I told them. There was just 112 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: one thing to do. He asked the buyer for more 113 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: information about the seller, and so he gave me the 114 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: person who got it from and that's how that we began. 115 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: This isn't as strange as it sounds. The rare comics 116 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: collecting community is small Plenty of people buy and read comics, sure, 117 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: but not that many deal in rare, high priced books 118 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: from the nineteen forties. Stephen is among the most well 119 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: known dealers of such paper treasures. The collector was from 120 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: New York, where Stephen lived. They had done business before, 121 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: so the comic finding its way to Stephen wasn't far fetched. 122 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: Most desirable comics made their way to him eventually, and 123 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 1: the man, whom Stephen prefers not to name, trusted him, 124 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: and so he told him that the seller was a she, 125 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: a woman named Kimberly. He gave Stephen a phone number 126 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: and an email, so Stephen began dialing, wondering if the 127 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: person who would pick up the phone knew that the 128 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: comics she had sold had been taken from the home 129 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: of Nicholas Cage. I had contacted the woman asking how 130 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 1: she got it, and she was very worried and defensive. 131 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 1: Kimberly did not wish to discuss where her Marvel Mystery 132 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: number seventy one had come from. Stephen kept trying left 133 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: her phone messages but got no response. Maybe she was 134 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: just unsettled by the question, maybe she had no idea 135 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: it was stolen. But then the buyer told Stephen another detail, 136 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,479 Speaker 1: a detail that didn't do anything to convince him. Kimberly 137 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: was an innocent bystander. He had bought the comic in person, 138 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: an in person swap money for the Marvel Mystery. This 139 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: is the kind of thing people may do on Craigslist, 140 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: but on eBay, even back then, it was unusual. The 141 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: whole point of eBay was to find items you couldn't 142 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: find locally, and with relative anonymity, you could purchase them 143 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: safely without risk of being lured into someone's basement. But 144 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: Kimberly preferred a personal meeting, and the collector didn't mind. 145 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: Connecticut was a short drive. He had no idea the 146 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: comic was well questionable, and no idea why Kimberly wanted 147 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: to keep it offline. A cash transaction didn't leave much 148 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: of a paper trail. If Kimberly didn't know the comic 149 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: was hot, why insist on meeting up in person? Why 150 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: the Cloak and Dagger stuff? Stephen pondered, whoever took the 151 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: Marvel Mystery had taken the other books, the very rare, 152 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: very valuable com x. It stood to reason Kimberly probably 153 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 1: knew something about the others. So he sat down and 154 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: began typing another message. This one was more to the point. 155 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: I sent a letter quietly to this woman who somehow 156 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: had one of the other stolen books, the Marvel seventy one. 157 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: Sent her a letter and I said, you know you 158 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: might have gotten books. This is my only lead. I said, 159 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: you may have been in possession of books that could 160 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: be stolen, But the owner really just wants to get 161 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: his book back. So I said, here's a picture of 162 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 1: a book that was stolen. If you have this book, 163 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: I will give you ten thousand dollars. There's no questions, 164 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: asked finders a reward for returning this book, Thinking you 165 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: know she got this cheaper book, Stephen was essentially offering 166 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: her a finder's fee if she could procure the real treasure, 167 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: the action number one or the detective number twenty seven 168 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: or both. He mailed the letter and wait did And 169 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: while he waited, he thought about something else, something else 170 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: that was strange about seeing this comic on eBay. When 171 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: it disappeared from Cages House. It had been raw. That's 172 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: what collectors called a book that hadn't been graded by 173 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: a third party company, hadn't been assessed for its condition, 174 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: for blemishes, for an objective ten point rating of how 175 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: well it aged, since it was first on the stands 176 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: in the system. All changed in two thousand when what's 177 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: now called the Certified Guarantee Company or c g C 178 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: started looking at comics. For a fee of roughly twenty dollars. 179 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: C g C would take your rare comic, examine it, 180 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 1: and put it in a protective plastic case so it 181 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: would be forever sealed against further wear. It solved the 182 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: problem of a dealer and buyer having different ideas of 183 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: what a comics condition was. It was perfect for eBay 184 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:08,599 Speaker 1: when you had to buy items site unseen. C g 185 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: C really took off in the early two thousand's mostly 186 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: because of eBay. That's Paul Lytch primary grater for c 187 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: g C. Back then he was the secondary greater. So 188 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 1: what CDC really did. It really gave buyers the level 189 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: playing field to say, no, c g C, this third party, independent, 190 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: impartial company gave this book that you're selling me an 191 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: eight five, so I'm only going to pay the eight 192 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: five price. C g C could make sure a comic 193 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: was unrestored, hadn't been messed with and they graded down 194 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: to the tenth of a point, from point five to 195 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: nine point two to rarely a ten point Oh, this 196 00:13:54,840 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: Marvel Mystery scored very very high, a nine point four, 197 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: close to perfect. Once a book is slabbed, it's protected 198 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: against a lot of things that age old comics which 199 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: were never printed to last, Cheap ink and cheap paper degrade. 200 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: So with the micro chamber paper in there, it will 201 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: help aging of the book and it will help it 202 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: with environmental storage problems that may happen down the road 203 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: depending on how you store your comics. So that comic 204 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: is then placed into an inner well. In the inner 205 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: well we have many, many different sizes that are custom 206 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: made for comics. That inner well is sealed on all 207 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: the edges and then it is placed in the outer 208 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: acrylic folder, which is just an acrylic plastic, very sturdy, 209 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: and that is sonically sealed and welded shut. And so 210 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: you have a tamper evidence very what's the word. I'm 211 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: looking for safe way to store your comics and archipe 212 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: a nice archival way to protect your comics and protect 213 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: them from any kind of other damage that could happen 214 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: just with life. So someone had thoughtfully taken Cage's stolen 215 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: comic and decided it deserved archival protection, at which point 216 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: it was sent to c g C for grading before 217 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: being auctioned on eBay. Someone wanted to squeeze every last 218 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: dollar out of its value, which was contrary to most 219 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: stolen goods, where getting a fraction of an item's worth 220 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: is usually good enough. This was well bold. Imagine swiping 221 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: a painting from a wall and then going to get 222 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: it appraised in the hopes word hadn't yet reached the 223 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: expert about the art going missing, or going to a 224 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: framing store with a swiped van go to pick out 225 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: the perfect frame for your wall. Kimberly either didn't know 226 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: it had been stolen, or knew but figured it was 227 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: one of many Marvel Mystery comics. She didn't seem to 228 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: have any idea it was a D copy, one instantly 229 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: recognizable someone had slipped it. Suggested that the thief knew 230 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: enough about comics to grab the most valuable ones, but 231 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: wasn't that much of an insider to know about the 232 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: D collection. It revealed something else too. The comics were 233 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: taken from Cage's home just days before c g C 234 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: officially opened for business just days c g C began 235 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: accepting submissions from the public on January first, two thousand. 236 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: It's possible that whoever took Cage's comics wanted to get 237 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: ahead of c g C, ahead of Cage, possibly submitting 238 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: his valuable books to be slabbed and therefore making them 239 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 1: harder to steal. Each slabbed c g C comic carries 240 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: a certification number. There would be no way of reselling 241 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: it in its c g C case without someone realizing 242 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: it had been stolen. Someone would have to take it out, 243 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: crack the slab, make it a raw book again. It 244 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: would be harder. Whoever took the comics may have been 245 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: knowledgeable enough to know that if they waited any longer, 246 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: the comics might be off to c g C for submission. 247 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: Than in case and trackable, we have helped our chatboards. 248 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: Dealers have listed books and the serial numbers and the 249 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: grades that have been stolen from their shops, and our 250 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: comic book community has helped find them. And it has helped, 251 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: but unfortunately still some tests do happen. But it also 252 00:17:55,240 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: presented another avenue for Stephen to explore. Anyone submit to 253 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: c g C had to provide a name and return 254 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: address to get their comic book back from their office 255 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: in New Jersey unless they submitted it through a participating dealer. 256 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: So Stephen reached out to a contact at c g 257 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: C to see if he could learn anything else. In fact, 258 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: Stephen had actually helped get c g C off the ground, 259 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: helping map out what the ten point grading system should 260 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: look like, and he discovered something very interesting about Kimberly. 261 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: She apparently called c g C and said, the c 262 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: g C g about personal information about who it's a grade. 263 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: It's something about that. Whole situation looked pretty bad. Kimberly 264 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: from Connecticut was definitely getting worried. She didn't know Stephen 265 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: had already gotten her information from the buyer. C g C, 266 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: for the record, didn't provide any further details about Kimberly 267 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: to Stephen, but what they had done was confirmed what 268 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: he already knew to be true that the comic he 269 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: sold Cage was undoubtedly part of the d collection. If 270 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: Stephen had any doubt before c g C provided authentication, 271 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: they always noted a comics pedigree on their label. Kimberly 272 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: had taken steps to guarantee that it was Cages comic 273 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: beyond all doubt. So out of those four comics, why 274 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: had this one, the least valuable, least important, come up first. 275 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 1: Why wouldn't the person who grabbed it from Cage's home 276 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: try to cash in on the action number one for 277 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: two hundred thousand dollars? Why not in case that one 278 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: in a C G C slab and shoot for the stars. 279 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: It's a marvel mystery mystery. So we asked someone who 280 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: might know. We asked an art thief. Well, what did 281 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: she want? Attitude is I never give anyone the benefit 282 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: of the doubt, and God everyone is despicable as each other. 283 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: And if you go into these things with that attitude, 284 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: you normally can't go far wrong. Okay, so let's be clear. 285 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: We asked a reformed art thief, a man named Paul Hendry. 286 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: Paul is from the UK, and for years he made 287 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: a dishonest living as a knocker. That's a person who 288 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: would find reasons to get inside someone's house and assess 289 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: their belongings for anything worth stealing. If he found something good, 290 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 1: he'd rope in some co conspirators, the people doing the 291 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: actual liberation of the goods. Well, yes, I was born 292 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: in Brighton on the South Coach of the UK in 293 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: nine and was adopted. And then when I was twelve, 294 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: I went out on the knocker, which is something where 295 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: you knock on people's heals you try to buy antiques. 296 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: I moved swiftly up the food chain and started organizing 297 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: thefts from country houses, and then I became very, very 298 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: successful in the nineteen eighties, and then I gave up 299 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: the business early nineties when my son was born, and 300 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: I went to university and got a BA honors degree 301 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 1: in American Social Studies and a master's degree in contemporary history. 302 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: And I now commentate on art related crime because I've 303 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: seen it from both perspectives. Paul has helped the FBI, 304 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 1: foreign Law Enforcement, and local bureaus find and recover stolen artworks. 305 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: He's well versed in what happens when someone steals one 306 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 1: of a kind pieces and then tries to figure out 307 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: what to do with them. Well, yes, people call me 308 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: the art crime on Bardsman. So really, when I see 309 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: wrong doing, whoever's doing it, whether it's law enforcement, the 310 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 1: insurance industry, private art detect chie's themes handless whoever, I 311 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: call everyone out. So to be honest with you, I 312 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: upset everyone at some point each time, and the fact 313 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: that the Marvel Mystery, the least valuable comic in the bunch, 314 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: was the first to surface, doesn't surprise him one bit. 315 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: Like obviously the person put it on eBay testing the water. 316 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: It's a test balloon scene whether it can slip through 317 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 1: the market without coming on top without being discovered. Remember, 318 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: two of the four comics were the two rarest The 319 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: other two the Marvel Mystery and the Detective Number one, weren't. 320 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: The Action Number One was worth at least two hundred 321 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: thousand dollars, the Marvel Mystery about a thousand dollars. To 322 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: be honest with you, because of the large discrepancies in value, 323 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: I will be leaning towards they took those to use 324 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 1: a test balloons and the proof of putting in that is, 325 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: the first comic that surfaced in Connecticut was the lesser 326 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: valued one, right, So I would actually look towards that 327 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: as Yes, they took one very valuable one and one 328 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: less valuable one, one very valuable one, one less valuable 329 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: one to use as bargaining chips as a test balloon. 330 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: If the Marvel Mystery had gone undetected. It was entirely 331 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: possible that the more valuable comics would have surfaced soon 332 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: after the Action number one and detective number twenty seven. 333 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 1: Maybe they'd be in shiny new c g C slabs 334 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: ready to be framed or displayed. Maybe they already were 335 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: c g C. After all, couldn't possibly be suspicious of 336 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: every comic that was submitted to them, or treat the 337 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: submitter as though they were a thief. But the Marvel 338 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: Mystery did not go undetected. Stephen detected it. This was 339 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 1: a real lead, tangible, verifiable proof that at least one 340 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: of the comic was out there, and proof that the 341 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,959 Speaker 1: comics weren't taken as a prank or had some home 342 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: been misplaced. Whoever had taken the comics had not done 343 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: so for their own personal pleasure to have some kind 344 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: of illicit comic book collection for their eyes only. The 345 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: Marvel Mystery was put up for sale for money. You 346 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: have to remember art, be a comic, a painting, a sculpture, 347 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: or anything. He's just a commodity, and that they steal 348 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: them because they pan and then they try to monetize them. Now, 349 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: comics are like say, musical instruments, they're quite unique and 350 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: knee market for them, and collectors market is a very 351 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: very small market. The majority of art crime is against 352 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: personal householders where they have art and antique stolen with 353 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: values ranging from say a thousand dollars up to ten 354 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: tho dollars and maybe a hundred thousand dollars, and those 355 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: things happened every day of the week all over the world. 356 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: Every now and again you get a big heist from 357 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: a museum where paintings worth millions and tens and hundreds 358 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,400 Speaker 1: of millions of dollars stolen and then either ransom back 359 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 1: to the insurance company or victims, or they're held as 360 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: collateral and used within the underworld in drug deals because 361 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: the moving of money around the world is much more 362 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: difficult because of money laundering laws. So these comics, including 363 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: the Superman ones and all of them, are just a commodity. 364 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 1: If you put it in a safety deposit box, you 365 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: can give the person that you're going to borrow some 366 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: money off, or you're going to get some narcotics off. 367 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: You give them the key to the ux and access 368 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: to it as collateral, and then when you sell the 369 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: drugs to pay the money back, you can then get 370 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: the access back again when the cage books went missing. 371 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: When any art goes missing, there's always a question of 372 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 1: whether it was an impulsive crime, something done at a 373 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: spur of the moment, or something premeditated. And if it 374 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: were premeditated, whether the thief knew exactly where the comics 375 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: were going to go, whether they had a buyer already 376 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 1: lined up. If not, how else could one of them 377 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: get from Los Angeles to Connecticut so quickly. If this 378 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: would a carefully playing theath, then the people would have 379 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: eva had someone that they were going to sell them 380 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: too straightaway already sold it out, or they would at 381 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: least know where they were going to monetize them or 382 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: what they were going to do with them afterwards. Bob 383 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: Whitman x FBI Art Crime Team Boss, he's got a 384 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: good saying, you know, aren't Thieves are very good at 385 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: steam in art, but they're terrible businessmen and terrible at 386 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 1: trying to monetize the art once they've stolen it. Were 387 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: it not for that infernal decollection marking, the Marvel Mysteries 388 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: could have passed unnoticed. Comics have the benefit of being 389 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: printed in multiples. Most art is one of one and 390 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: therefore much harder to return to a legitimate market. Well, 391 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: a lot of art theft, you see, is opportunisty or 392 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: even those that are planning right, they put a lot 393 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 1: of planning into the actual ceiling of the artwork, but 394 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: not so much planning there's what they're going to do 395 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: with them once they've stolen them, and then they find 396 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: that it's even in the art world, it's a very 397 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: very exclusive club and it's very very difficult if you 398 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: don't know the right context to know what to do 399 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: with these things, unless, of coursehip was something like, I 400 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: mean there's a gang in the UK. Then they raised 401 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: stately homes. Now they sold a solid gold toilet that 402 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: was being exhibited at Blenheim Palace. And this solid gold 403 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: toilet ways, it's something like a hundred and twenty teals, 404 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: and they ripped it out of where it's been exhibited. 405 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: They cut it up and they put it in the 406 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 1: melting pot for five million dollars and it was insured 407 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 1: for six million dollars. But it got mounted down, you see, 408 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: so that the work of art that could just literally 409 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: be monetized because of the material that it was made 410 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: by it there was also place where there was a 411 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: diamond tr in Portland, Tiara that was stolen worth millions 412 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: of dollars. They just popped all the big diamonds out 413 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: of it and melted down the frame and sold the 414 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: stones for a few hundred thousand dollars. So there are 415 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: different things. I mean with this comic, you couldn't do 416 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: anything like that because it's an an animal object, something 417 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: that you can't change it into anything. But again, it 418 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: needs something that could be used as collateral by the underworld. 419 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: But you've got to get it into the underworld, and 420 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: from what I can see, I don't think they ever 421 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: really reached the underworld with this. Unfortunately, this was no 422 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: golden toilet, but it was altered in a way when 423 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: it was stolen from Cage's house. It was raw. Now 424 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: it was slabbed. Kimberly may have wanted to give the 425 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: comic a fresh start, have it appeared to be something 426 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: other than what had gone missing. Some art is stolen 427 00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: for ransom, kind of a Lindberg baby situation, a kid nothing. 428 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: The intent isn't to try to move it on the market, 429 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: but to tempt the owner with it if some kind 430 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: of agreement can be made to dangle the art in 431 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: front of the nose of the victim and promise it's 432 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: safe return in exchange for a fee. Stephen Fishler had 433 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: essentially done that in reverse. He proactively offered a reward 434 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: to the mysterious Kimberly from Connecticut. The question was would 435 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: she bite guilty or not? Kimberly was not playing it cool. 436 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: She had phoned c g C in a panic, hoping 437 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: they wouldn't give out her personal information. She refused to 438 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: speak to Stephen, and when Stephen offered her a monetary 439 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: reward that was virtually ten times with the Marvel Mystery 440 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: was worth, she never responded. But Stephen wasn't out of options. 441 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: In addition to offering Kimberly a reward, he reached out 442 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: to Los Angeles Detective Donald Harrisik, the man who was 443 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: leading the investigation into the heist. Stephen expected harre sick 444 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: to do something. Make a call, contact the Connecticut police, 445 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: follow the only lead anyone had. Maybe not kicked down 446 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: her door, but something. I got a feeling from what 447 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,719 Speaker 1: I heard about this woman's reaction. Who I contacted asking 448 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: how she got this Marvel mystery, she got very panicky, 449 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: so I said to the police, she's acting like she 450 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: contacted the company graded the book for her and was 451 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: worried that they would reveal her information. And when that's 452 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: somebody who knew that book was questionable. According to Stephen, 453 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: Detective Harrisick wasn't as enthusiastic as one might expect. Well. 454 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: He was annoyed that I contacted the woman directly and 455 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: now she won't talk to him. You're the police, I said, 456 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: call her up and see who you are. You know, 457 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: I don't think police work. Ended with the notion of 458 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: she won't talk to me. When Kimberly refused to talk 459 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: to her, Sick, it seemed as though he just well 460 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: gave up her re Sick was less than curious. Stephen 461 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: knew that Cage had his own security personnel working on things, 462 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: so he reached out to them to let them know 463 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: that a woman named Kimberly in Connecticut was in possession 464 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: of one of Cage's comics without question or doubt. The 465 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: d copy. Yeah, I had spoken to Oh, absolutely, just 466 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: give me an update, I said, I have found a 467 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: book that left Nick's house and it was transacted off 468 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: the v Bay by a woman in Connecticut. Well, they 469 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: found it interesting, but I'll be honest, it seemed a 470 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: bit like they were being annoyed by me. Why Nick 471 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: had a purity person I cannot remember his name in place. 472 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: A little bit after that and I all right, we'll 473 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: have the security person follow up on this. Why am 474 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: I doing this? And the security person didn't seem to 475 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: be bothered by trying to track this down. I mean, 476 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: I found it a little frustrating talking to Nick's people 477 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: when something's not let me just makes sense here, like 478 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: I could have been talking to somebody who stole it, 479 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: like they didn't want to deal with it, and maybe 480 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,719 Speaker 1: they had. I don't know, to be honest, I just 481 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: don't know. There was some weirdness going on. Instead of wow, 482 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: Steve's really trying to find the book, it became wow, 483 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: Steve's really annoying us. I said to myself at the time, 484 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: I said, this is bizarre. It is bizarre. And Paul 485 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: Hendry has a theory about that too. The police will 486 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: go out to Shay the person in Connecticut and try 487 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: to track it back from there. The fact that I 488 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: didn't do it makes you wanted a lot about this, Like, well, 489 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: initially I think We've got a look that behavior, and 490 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: any investigator would look at that behavior. Has perhaps Nicolas 491 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: Cage has some idea of who stole these things and 492 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: the reason that they stold them, because, to be honest 493 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: with you, you know what celebrities are like. If this 494 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: was just a genuine theft and Nicolas Cage is a 495 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 1: victim of this theft, it would have been all over 496 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: the news and it would have given interviews because you know, 497 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: in that world, Oscar Wilde said, the only thing worse 498 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: than bad publicity is no publicity, and this would have 499 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: given a platform for Nicolas Cage to say he's a 500 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: victim of an art theft. We've seen it before when 501 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: famous people have been robbed. I mean they've gone out 502 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: and they said, we'd like the things back, and they 503 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: contact the police. But at this point, Cage had still 504 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: not gone public with the theft, and neither the police 505 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: nor his security seemed enthusiastic about pursuing the Kimberly situation. 506 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: Cages people did send a letter to her, and according 507 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: to what Stephen was told, Kimberly sent a letter back 508 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 1: insisting they were harassing her. So it's possible Nicholas Cage 509 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: didn't want to be perceived as someone who was ordering 510 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: his staff to bother a strange woman who may or 511 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: may not know anything about his stolen comic books. That's 512 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: a weird National Enquirer worthy headline. But she was the 513 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,399 Speaker 1: only link to the heist, So why didn't anyone make 514 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: more of an effort to question her? I think, as 515 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: we've gone through the whole story, it really is a 516 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: Russian dole. You're opening more and more layers, You're peeling 517 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: back the onion and every kind of stop. There is 518 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: something there that doesn't smell right, it doesn't taste right, 519 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: and doesn't look right. And in the normal world of things, 520 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: this is not only what would happen, from the theft 521 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: of it to the handling of it to the surfacing 522 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: Stephen Fishler agrees. And I gave the police this lead 523 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 1: and they were really just not doing much with it, 524 00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: and I said, all right, well, here's the book that 525 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: he from Nick's house. This is my only lead. The 526 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: police don't seem to have the wherewithal to really follow 527 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: it up or the motivation, and I just became like 528 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: the crazy uncle who was still trying to find these books. 529 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: And the detective zombie as a sort of a nuisance. 530 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: But that was then and this is now. Time has 531 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: passed and you're probably thinking, well, why not try to 532 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: find Kimberly today. There's one hurdle to overcome. Kimberly's full 533 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: name is not uncommon. In other words, a lot of 534 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: people named Kimberly live in Connecticut. So we needed more 535 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: to go on a town a phone number, information that 536 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,800 Speaker 1: has in the intervening years slipped through Stephen Fishler's memory. 537 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: But it is the kind of information c g C 538 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: would have recorded back in two thousand when they accepted 539 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: the Marvel mystery number. Seventy one escape end of the 540 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: comic still exists. So we typed in the certification number 541 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,799 Speaker 1: into the c GCS database. The registrate Paul Lytch was 542 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,879 Speaker 1: talking about the one given to the comic back when 543 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: it was graded. It's a ten digit number that gives 544 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: a person general information about the comic, like the data 545 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,800 Speaker 1: was examined and any grader's notes like catch up staying 546 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: on third page. But the c g c S database 547 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 1: couldn't find the certification number. It seemed to have disappeared 548 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: from their system entirely. That was unusual. Had c g 549 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: C scrubbed the number after Kimberly called to complain, or 550 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: was it just a glitch? So we asked Paul Lynch. 551 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: According to Paul, the number not coming up means the 552 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: comic may have been resubmitted at some point. Some collectors 553 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: do this in the hopes c g C might wind 554 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: up giving their comic a more favorable grade. If that happened, 555 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: then the old label and number would have been destroyed. 556 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 1: I don't see why we wouldn't. It's got to be 557 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,399 Speaker 1: here somewhere. But as far as to submitted it that's 558 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,719 Speaker 1: above my pay grade, you'd have to, I don't know. 559 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 1: That's one of the head hunchos. Paul told us to 560 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: talk to someone higher up in the c g C 561 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 1: hierarchy to see what we could find out. We had 562 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,800 Speaker 1: a full name and a state, a non working certification number, 563 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: and a question about a comic submitted that had been stolen. 564 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: Could they help us find Kimberly from Connecticut? We went 565 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: to the head hauncho to find out Harsh and Patel, 566 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,399 Speaker 1: vice president of the c g C. We explained the situation, 567 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 1: and harsh And understood, but however, noble our intentions. The 568 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: c g c has a commitment to protecting the privacy 569 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,359 Speaker 1: of their customers. Harshin told us that the only way 570 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 1: he could hand over that kind of information would be 571 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: with a subpoena. That was dead end number two, so 572 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: we tried something else. In two thousand two, that same 573 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: copy of Marvel Mystery Number seventy one went up for 574 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: sale via Heritage Auctions, one of the largest auctioneers in 575 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:27,439 Speaker 1: the industry. Auctions like these are always private. No one 576 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,359 Speaker 1: but the auction house knows who the buyers or sellers are. 577 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: It's possible the seller was the same person who bought 578 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: it from Kimberly, but again, Heritage couldn't reveal their identity. 579 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: Strike three. For now, the location of the elusive Kimberly 580 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: remains a mystery, but maybe not for much longer. There's 581 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: one more thing to try. Stay tuned, But what about 582 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: that Marvel Mystery Number seventy one. Shouldn't it have been 583 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: returned to Nicholas Cage. Shouldn't the New York buyer have 584 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: forfeited what he knew to be stolen property? Well he 585 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,760 Speaker 1: would have, except Cage wasn't asking for it back because 586 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: the main thing was trying to figure out the Action 587 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: One trying to undertake him. I had mentioned to Nick 588 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: about this lead, and if Nick said to me, that's 589 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 1: my book, I wanted back. It was more about the 590 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:35,320 Speaker 1: lead versus getting it back. By this point, Cage's insurance 591 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: company had paid out on all four books. He had 592 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 1: been financially, if not emotionally, compensated for their loss. The 593 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: Marvel mystery was in some ways small potatoes, even though 594 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: the fact that it had materialized in Connecticut means someone 595 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: had crossed state lines and technically made a Los Angeles 596 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 1: robbery a federal crime. And maybe it was someone Cage knew, Well, 597 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:10,840 Speaker 1: maybe someone Cage already considered a suspect, which made looking 598 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: into Kimberly less of a priority. To find these comics, 599 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 1: someone was going to have to take the initiative. The 600 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:23,319 Speaker 1: problem was there was no analog for this heist. There 601 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: were plenty of art thefts, but not many comic book thefts. 602 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: It makes you wonder if anyone had ever been bold 603 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:35,240 Speaker 1: enough to steal an Action number one before Cage's copy 604 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: went missing, if any crime had been an inspiration for 605 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,359 Speaker 1: this one, if it had been a kind of copycat 606 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 1: comic heist. It turns out the answer is yes, and 607 00:40:48,239 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 1: it happened in of all places, Connecticut. Stealing Superman is 608 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:07,440 Speaker 1: written by Jake Rawson, sound design scoring by Josh Fisher, 609 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: additional editing by Jonathan Washington, Mixing and mastering by Baheed Frasier. 610 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: Original music by Aaron Kaufman. Research and fact checking by 611 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: Jake Rawson and Austin Thompson, with production support from Lulu Philip. 612 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 1: Show logo by Lucy Quintinia. Our executive producer is Jason 613 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: English and I'm your host Danish words. If you're enjoying 614 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: this show, check out Haileywood and Noble Blood and give 615 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 1: us a nice review. We'll see you next week. Stealing 616 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 1: Superman is a production of I Heart Radio.