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Speaker 1: Last time on ear witness Bally that.

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Speaker 2: Was walking that door, scanting up on this table and

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Speaker 2: say what she said.

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Speaker 3: We got a full table.

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Speaker 4: Now we got all the ever this we.

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Speaker 3: Need this, Alison, would you tell us about the information

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Speaker 3: that you have for us?

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Speaker 5: Yes, my daughter to use her three way to call for.

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Speaker 2: His homeboy, and he named his the old name is

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Speaker 2: to Barge Johnson. We had a weak case. It's based

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Speaker 2: on testimony in one witness.

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Speaker 4: The only evidence supposedly they had against was this ear

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Speaker 4: witness who had never heard him speak before, who had

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Speaker 4: no idea who he was.

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Speaker 6: This case is all about alternative worlds that are in

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Speaker 6: conflict with each other and in conflict with truth, and

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Speaker 6: in conflict with what our justice system stands for.

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Speaker 4: We forget sometime that there was a third person on

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Speaker 4: that phone who told him to discredit to what this

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Speaker 4: lady says. She heard, you know what I mean? And

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Speaker 4: now how close, how much closer can you get than that?

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Speaker 1: Why did the jury believe this woman who eavesdrop on

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Speaker 1: the call over you who actually had on the call.

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Speaker 4: I don't understand. I never understood that. You know, the

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Speaker 4: victim's family deserve to know what happened. To their loved one.

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Speaker 4: But they get no justice, no peace out of a

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Speaker 4: wrongful conviction, you know, And this is simply a case

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Speaker 4: of does anybody all do.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember the first time you met him?

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Speaker 7: At you?

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Speaker 1: Ty Alper was just starting out his legal career at

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Speaker 1: the Southern Center for Human Rights when he met to

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Speaker 1: Forest Johnson. To Forest was one of the first people

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Speaker 1: on death row that Ty'd been assigned to represent. In

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Speaker 1: January of two thousand and three, ty gets into one

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Speaker 1: of the old volvos that the Southern Center had in

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Speaker 1: their parking lot in Atlanta and drives four hours south

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Speaker 1: to Holman Prison and at Moore, Alabama.

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Speaker 3: The first time I met him was down at Holman.

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Speaker 3: I was by myself and well, I was going to

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Speaker 3: go down and make sure that he was okay with

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Speaker 3: us representing him and to sort of tell him where

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Speaker 3: his case was.

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Speaker 1: Tye is twenty nine years old, and here's what he knows.

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Speaker 1: To Forest Johnson is just eight months old than he is,

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Speaker 1: and he's been on death row for over four years

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Speaker 1: for a crime he says he did not commit. When

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Speaker 1: ty finally gets inside the prison, he's taken to a

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Speaker 1: room called the visiting Yard, but it isn't a yard

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Speaker 1: at all. It looks like a middle school cafeteria surrounded

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Speaker 1: by plexiglass. Outside the plexiglass, correctional officers and men in

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Speaker 1: prison uniforms, white slacks, white shirt with Alabama Department of

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Speaker 1: Corrections stamped on the back are walking by. Inside, there's

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Speaker 1: no ac and the sad attempt of cooling the room

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Speaker 1: is left to metal fans that hang in the corners

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Speaker 1: to Forrest sits at a table in a plastic chair

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Speaker 1: across from Ty. Ty tries to talk quietly so he

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Speaker 1: doesn't disturb other lawyers working with their clients on the yard,

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Speaker 1: but loud enough to be heard over the roar of

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Speaker 1: the fans.

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Speaker 3: And I remember saying to him, you know, mister Johnson,

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Speaker 3: I want you to know we're at the very early

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Speaker 3: stages of your appeals. There's many rounds of appeals to go.

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Speaker 3: We're going to file a petition in the US Supreme Court.

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Speaker 3: Then we're going to go back into state court. If

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Speaker 3: we lose there, we're going to go back into federal court.

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Speaker 3: And all this could take many years. And he just

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Speaker 3: started crying, and I assumed that he was upset because

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Speaker 3: I knew that he had claimed that he was claiming

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Speaker 3: he was innocent, and I assumed that he was upset

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Speaker 3: that this was going to take so long, and I

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Speaker 3: asked him what was wrong, and he said that he

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Speaker 3: was so happy because he had just assumed that they

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Speaker 3: could come any minute and take him to be executed.

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Speaker 3: And it was just the thing that struck me the most,

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Speaker 3: because not only had he been screwed over in pretty

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Speaker 3: much every possible way you can be, but nobody was

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Speaker 3: telling anything about what was going on in this case.

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Speaker 1: But to Forrest's days without a lawyer to fight for

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Speaker 1: him are over. It's now up to Tie and the

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Speaker 1: team of lawyers at the Southern Center to do what

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Speaker 1: no one has done before, thoroughly investigate to Forrest's conviction,

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Speaker 1: a conviction that hinged on the word and credibility of

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Speaker 1: a single witness. Violet Ellison. I'm Beth Shelburne. This is

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Speaker 1: ear witness, Chapter six Misfiled. After Ty leaves Holman prison,

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Speaker 1: he and the rest of Taforest's new legal team go

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Speaker 1: through the case. They need to understand how their new

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Speaker 1: client ended up on death row. They hear about DeForest's

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Speaker 1: alibi that he was at Tea's place when Deputy Hardy

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Speaker 1: was shot. They learn about Yolanda Chambers changing stories. They

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Speaker 1: read how the state presented conflicting theories at different trials.

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Speaker 1: Now it's clear to the legal team to Forest Johnson

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Speaker 1: did not kill Deputy Hardy. The state's case completely revolved

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Speaker 1: around Violet Ellison's testimony.

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Speaker 3: So we knew that that was a potentially fruitful area

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Speaker 3: to investigate because she was the state's whole case.

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Speaker 1: They need to figure out whether they can challenge Violet

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Speaker 1: Ellison's testimony. If they can show that it wasn't reliable,

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Speaker 1: they can argue that to Forrest deserves a new trial.

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Speaker 1: So they need to know why did Violet Ellison come

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Speaker 1: forward in the first place. Prosecutor Jeff Wallace told two

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Speaker 1: juries that Violet was a credible witness, someone who overheard

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Speaker 1: to Forrest Johnson admit to the crime, and she came

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Speaker 1: forward because it was the right thing to do. But

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Speaker 1: there were other reasons Violet Ellison might have come forward.

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Speaker 3: We knew the reward was offered because it was all

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Speaker 3: over the papers, but we didn't know who got it

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Speaker 3: or if Violet Elison got it.

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Speaker 1: The reward was not a secret. It was mentioned in

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Speaker 1: press releases and reported on TV news.

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Speaker 3: So the next step was okay. Well, were there questions

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Speaker 3: about her credibility that the jury never heard, and an

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Speaker 3: obvious one was what was she paid for her testimony?

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Speaker 1: If Violet Ellison knew about the reward money before trial,

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Speaker 1: or even if she had qualified for the reward, the

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Speaker 1: jury should have been told this when they heard her testimony.

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Speaker 1: The legal issues here get complicated fast, but it's important

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Speaker 1: to understand that the prosecution must turn over anything that

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Speaker 1: would be helpful to the defense. It can be a

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Speaker 1: lead on another suspect, or some forensic report that casts

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Speaker 1: doubt on a piece of evidence, or information that calls

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Speaker 1: the credibility of a state's witness into question. This is

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Speaker 1: called Brady information, after a famous US Supreme Court case

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Speaker 1: called Brady v. Maryland.

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Speaker 7: And if a.

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Speaker 1: Court finds out later that prosecutors failed to turn over

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Speaker 1: Brady information, that's a constitutional violation and the court will

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Speaker 1: order a new trial. So if prosecutors knew that Violet

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Speaker 1: Ellison came forward looking for the reward, they should have

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Speaker 1: told to Forrest trial lawyers about it, and then they

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Speaker 1: could have brought it up at trial. They could have

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Speaker 1: told the jury when you go back and deliberate about

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Speaker 1: Violet Ellison's testimony. Remember, there's a reward being offered and

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Speaker 1: she wants that reward. Are you sure money isn't part

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Speaker 1: of the equation here? But the jury never heard anything

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Speaker 1: about the reward.

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Speaker 2: She was very credible.

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Speaker 1: Monique Hicks was on the jury into Forrest's second trial

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Speaker 1: and she voted to convict to Forrest on Violet Ellison's testimony.

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Speaker 2: She just seemed very truthful, like she had nothing to

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Speaker 2: gain by coming forward. She had heard this information and

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Speaker 2: she felt like I have to share this. She was

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Speaker 2: a very credible witness compared to some of the others

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Speaker 2: that took the sand like we believed her. Obviously we

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Speaker 2: believed her because we convicted him and it was on

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Speaker 2: her testimony.

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Speaker 1: Overturning a conviction is damn near impossible. Our system prioritizes

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Speaker 1: finality in part because a jury's verdict is considered a

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Speaker 1: community statement and given great weight. So for to Forrest

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Speaker 1: to get a new trial, his lawyers needed to prove

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Speaker 1: two things that Violet Ellison came forward with her story

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Speaker 1: in the hopes of getting the reward, and that police

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Speaker 1: and prosecutors were aware of this true motivation. There's one

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Speaker 1: big problem. If Violet Ellison had been paid, documentation of

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Speaker 1: the payment should have been into Forrest's case file, but

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Speaker 1: there wasn't anything there. Still, Tye and the other attorneys

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Speaker 1: had a hunch that Violet Ellison got the money. The

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Speaker 1: legal team tried calling everywhere they could, the Sheriff's office,

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Speaker 1: the Governor's office, the Record's division. What should have been

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Speaker 1: just a simple phone call turned into a multi week endeavor. Finally,

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Speaker 1: someone at the Governor's office said they might have something

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Speaker 1: and would send over a fax.

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Speaker 3: I do remember us all hovering around the fact machine

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Speaker 3: waiting to see what it was, because it was the

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Speaker 3: first time that anyone had acknowledged that there might be

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Speaker 3: something that was helpful.

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Speaker 1: The fax machine spits out a piece of paper signed

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Speaker 1: by Judge Alfred Bayhackle, the man who presided over to

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Speaker 1: Forrest's trials and sentenced him to death. The paper authorized

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Speaker 1: Violet Ellison to receive five thousand dollars in reward money

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Speaker 1: in exchange for her testimony that led to the conviction

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Speaker 1: of to Forest Johnson.

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Speaker 3: That was when we knew, okay, she did know about

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Speaker 3: this reward. She was motivated by the reward when she testified,

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Speaker 3: and the judge knew about it in an order that

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Speaker 3: was not included in the court file.

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Speaker 1: For to Forest's legal team, this was a huge first step.

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Speaker 1: The language in the court order said that Violet Ellison

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Speaker 1: came forward pursuant to the public offer of a reward.

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Speaker 1: And again, this authorization document was signed by the judge.

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Speaker 1: It's an official court document. It should have been into

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Speaker 1: Forest's court file right there where everyone could see it,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't. Instead, to Forest's legal team had to

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Speaker 1: go on a bureaquecratic goose chase to find it. Was

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Speaker 1: someone trying to hide something what other documents were missing

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Speaker 1: from the public file. So a young investigator working with

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Speaker 1: Taforest's legal team named Jason Marx went right to the source.

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Speaker 1: He walked up to Violet Ellison's house, holding Judge Bahackele's

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Speaker 1: court order that authorized her payment in one hand and

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Speaker 1: knocked on her front door with the other.

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Speaker 8: When I showed up at her house, he said something

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Speaker 8: about the phone calls, and I said, Oh, I'm not

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Speaker 8: here to talk to you about the phone calls. I'm

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Speaker 8: here to talk about the reward that you got. And

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Speaker 8: that's when she said I didn't get a reward, I

196
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Speaker 8: was like, oh, well that's funny. I was like, I

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Speaker 8: have some paperwork here that says you got a reward,

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Speaker 8: and so basically yeah. So basically confronted her with the document,

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Speaker 8: she said, Oh, yeah, I did get a reward, got

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Speaker 8: five thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: After initially denying it, Violet Ellison told Jason the state

202
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Speaker 1: paid her five thousand dollars for testifying against to Forrest Johnson.

203
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Speaker 3: We knew when we got the judge's order that he

204
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Speaker 3: had authorized the payment, and then she told us that

205
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Speaker 3: she got paid, so we knew it all. When you

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Speaker 3: take a step back, he's on death row because the

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Speaker 3: jury believed a woman who they didn't know was being

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Speaker 3: paid for her testimony, and that should cause real concerns

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Speaker 3: and questions about the validity of the conviction.

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Speaker 1: To Forest's legal team files a Brady claim against the

211
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Speaker 1: state that argues the jury into Forest's trial should have

212
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Speaker 1: heard about the reward, Violet Ellison knew about the reward

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Speaker 1: when she came forward, and that the state suppressed the

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Speaker 1: information on purpose. The state denies everything. They deny any

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Speaker 1: Brady violation, and they deny all of the allegations into

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Speaker 1: Forest's including that Violet Ellison was motivated by the reward

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Speaker 1: and that she was paid five thousand dollars. But to

218
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Speaker 1: Forest's legal team has evidence to the contrary, the court

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Speaker 1: order that was faxed to them and Violet Ellison herself.

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Speaker 1: After the state submits a written denial of all of

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Speaker 1: the charges brought by to Forest's legal team, the case

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Speaker 1: heads to court, but Alabama courts won't hear the case.

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Speaker 1: They say the reward doesn't qualify as Brady, so the

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Speaker 1: appeal takes years to make its way through the courts.

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Speaker 1: When to Forest and Ty first met, to Forrest's five

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Speaker 1: kids were all under the age of ten, and as

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00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:58,080
Speaker 1: the Brady claim crawls through the legal system, seventeen years

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Speaker 1: go by, Trus's oldest daughter has graduated college and his

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00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:11,200
Speaker 1: four other kids are having kids of their own. Finally,

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00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,360
Speaker 1: to Forest's legal team gets the case in front of

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Speaker 1: the United States Supreme Court. The justices tell the Alabama

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Speaker 1: courts that they're wrong for not reviewing to forest Brady claim.

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Speaker 1: The State of Alabama must hear the evidence about the reward.

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Speaker 1: Ahead of the hearing, Judge Teresa Pulliam gives the state

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Speaker 1: very clear orders.

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Speaker 3: You have to turn over everything, everything that you have

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Speaker 3: that concerns a reward payment, you have to turn it

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Speaker 3: over to mister Johnson's lawyers.

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Speaker 1: So the state gives to Forest's legal team what they

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Speaker 1: say are all of the documents about to Forest's case.

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Speaker 1: An attorney representing the state tells Judge Pulliam the files

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00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,720
Speaker 1: contained nothing about anyone applying for a reward or being

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Speaker 1: granted a reward.

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Speaker 3: I think it was eight or nine banker's boxes of documents,

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Speaker 3: and we went through every single page looking for any

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00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,040
Speaker 3: mention of a reward payment about Elson, and there was

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Speaker 3: nothing in there.

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00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,920
Speaker 1: But then the Forest's legal team gets a tip from

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Speaker 1: an insider. The woman who served as office manager at

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00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,000
Speaker 1: the Jefferson County District Attorney's office went to Forest was

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Speaker 1: on trial.

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Speaker 3: So she told us that if we were only looking

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Speaker 3: in the case file, we weren't looking everywhere that the

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00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,639
Speaker 3: documentation might be because they also had a reward file

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Speaker 3: that they kept separate from the case files that would

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00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:52,560
Speaker 3: include paperwork and documentation of witnesses who had sought rewards

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Speaker 3: and or been paid rewards.

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Speaker 1: Reward information in the DA's office, according to this source,

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00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 1: was kept in a separate confidential file away from prosecutors

260
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:10,399
Speaker 1: involved in trials like Jeff Wallace. This meant he couldn't

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00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,320
Speaker 1: turn it over to to Forest lawyers because he didn't

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00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,719
Speaker 1: know about it. To to Forest's attorneys, this meant the

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Speaker 1: information about the reward was kept from them intentionally suppressed.

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Speaker 1: The judge orders the DA's office to turn over this

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Speaker 1: separate confidential file.

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Speaker 3: We got an email that said, we found these documents.

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Speaker 3: They had been misfiled, and here they are.

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Speaker 1: Here they are. After seventeen years, the state finally turned

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00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,439
Speaker 1: over every document to Forest lawyers had asked for the

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00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:56,120
Speaker 1: hidden treasure trove, an application for the reward that signed

271
00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,040
Speaker 1: by Violet Ellison, a copy of the actual check for

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00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,880
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars made out to Violet Ellison, an email

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00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:09,000
Speaker 1: exchange between District Attorney David Barber and the Governor's office

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00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:13,040
Speaker 1: about how to pay the reward, and a letter from

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00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,200
Speaker 1: DA Barber asking the governor to pay Violet Ellison the money,

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00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 1: saying that she came forward pursuant to the offer of

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00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:35,960
Speaker 1: a reward. If this hidden information about the reward kept

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00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:41,080
Speaker 1: away from to Forest lawyers for seventeen years doesn't count

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00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:48,919
Speaker 1: as prosecutorial misconduct as a Brady violation. What does But

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00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 1: according to the state, all of these documents were simply misfiled.

281
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:03,040
Speaker 1: When I hear misfiled, I imagine someone accidentally putting a

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00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,240
Speaker 1: document into the wrong folder, or maybe a paper falling

283
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,840
Speaker 1: behind a cabinet. But that's not what happened. It sounds

284
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 1: like they had it organized in a file they kept

285
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 1: explicitly for rewards, a file that no one seemed to

286
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:24,359
Speaker 1: know about except the office manager and the DA himself,

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00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 1: David Barber, who headed the prosecutor's office. How is this acceptable?

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00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 2: Hello?

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00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 1: Yes, I was calling for David Barber. Mister Barber. My

290
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 1: name is Beth Shelburne. I called David Barber, who's now

291
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,719
Speaker 1: retired after serving as Jefferson County's top prosecutor for twenty

292
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 1: four years. He was DA whent to Forest was tried

293
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 1: for capital murder and personally involved in the reward issue.

294
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 1: He wrote the letter asking the governor to pay Violet Ellison.

295
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 1: The defense team for mister Johnson didn't have any records

296
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 1: about the reward until twenty nineteen. The Attorney General's office

297
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 1: produced the records and said they had been misfiled. Okay,

298
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 1: does that sound strange to you or do you have

299
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 1: any idea how that could.

300
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 2: Have happened.

301
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,560
Speaker 9: The AG's office If they said he got misfiled, and

302
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 9: I guess he got misfiled the human error, I guess.

303
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 9: I don't know. I don't second guess people. I mean

304
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:51,880
Speaker 9: things happened. You have people working in agency's DA's offices.

305
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,679
Speaker 9: AG's office is Governor's office. Things getting misfiled, and I

306
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 9: mean it, it happens.

307
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,880
Speaker 1: It happens. Actually, it did happen at least one other

308
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 1: time on Barber's watch. In two thousand and four, a

309
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,120
Speaker 1: man named Montez Spradley was sentenced to death for murder

310
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 1: based on the testimony of one witness, just like to

311
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 1: Forest Johnson. Eventually, Spradley's lawyers discovered the star witness was

312
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,679
Speaker 1: paid ten thousand dollars for her testimony, but police and

313
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 1: prosecutors never disclosed the reward payment because the reward documents

314
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 1: were kept in this same separate file as Violet Ellison's

315
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 1: reward payment. The judge in that case also didn't disclose

316
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:48,640
Speaker 1: information about the reward. The judge was Gloria Bayhackle, the

317
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,919
Speaker 1: sister of Alfred Bayhackle, the judge into Forrest's trial.

318
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Speaker 5: Hello.

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00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: Hey, my name is Beth Sholburn. I was wondering if

320
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: mister Alfred Bayhackle is here. My producer, Mara, and I

321
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 1: went to Judge Alfred bay Hackle's house, hoping to talk

322
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: to him about these off the record payment authorizations, but

323
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: he told us that he wasn't interested in commenting on

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00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,360
Speaker 1: any specific cases or his time as a judge. Talk

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00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: to you. It's about a murder case and several of

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Speaker 1: the trials.

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00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 3: I can't talk about, okay.

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00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: Montes Bradley was able to prove his innocence and was

329
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 1: released from prison in twenty fifteen, to Forrest and his

330
00:23:45,240 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: attorneys hope for this same outcome. I first heard about

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00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 1: to Force Johnson's case in twenty nineteen, when the Brady

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00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 1: hearing was scheduled. I was assigned to cover the hearing

333
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: for WBrC, the news station where I used to work.

334
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: This hearing would determine whether Violet Ellison's secret reward payment

335
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 1: amounted to prosecutorial misconduct. I didn't know much about to

336
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: Force case back then, only that he was on death

337
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: row for a crime that he said he didn't commit

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00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: and was convicted on the testimony of an ear witness

339
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:01,479
Speaker 1: who was paid off the record. In preparation for the hearing,

340
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: I met with t Forest's cousin Antonio Green, and other

341
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: family members at their uncle's house. They all said to

342
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: Forrest was optimistic about the hearing, and.

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00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 4: He tells me, he says all the time, well, you know,

344
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 4: cause I know I didn't do this, so one day

345
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 4: it'll all come out.

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00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 2: Old.

347
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 4: Yeah.

348
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 1: On the day of the hearing, I only took a

349
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: pen and notebook into Judge Pulliam's courtroom because she doesn't

350
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: allow recording. I sat next to to Forest's mother, Donna,

351
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: in a middle row, and I spotted to Forrest sitting

352
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: at the defence table with his attorneys. This was the

353
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: first and only time I've ever seen to Forrest Johnson

354
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: in person. He was wearing an orange and white striped

355
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 1: jail jumpsuit and was in handcuffs and leg irons. At

356
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 1: one point, he turned and smiled at his family, and

357
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,479
Speaker 1: I heard his mom next to me say softly, hey baby.

358
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: The courtroom was packed and much of the crowd was

359
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: to Forrest's family and friends, but I also saw Jefferson

360
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: County's newly elected district attorney seated in the first row

361
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: Danny Carr. He's the first black man to be elected

362
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: top prosecutor in Jefferson County. A month before this hearing,

363
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,479
Speaker 1: a group of faith leaders who knew about to Forest

364
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: case published an open letter to Carr asking him to

365
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: push for a new trial, but at this point Carr

366
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 1: had not commented publicly on the case. The hearing starts

367
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: at nine am to Forrest's attorneys present all of the

368
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: documents that took the state seventeen years to turn over.

369
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: They argue that the documents show the state suppressed evidence

370
00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: that Violet Ellison initially contacted police in pursuit of the

371
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 1: reward money, and then the state hid that she was

372
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: eventually paid five thousand dollars. Just after ten am, the

373
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: state calls only one witness to testify, Violet Ellison. She's

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00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: seventy seven years old and walks to the stand using

375
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: a cane. She has short white hair and is dressed

376
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: in a white blazer and black pants. After she's sworn in,

377
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison says that she knew the victim and followed

378
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: the details about the murder and investigation by watching the

379
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: news and reading the newspaper. But despite all that, and

380
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: despite the fact that information about the reward was all

381
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: over the news, she is vehement that she didn't know

382
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,239
Speaker 1: about the reward. She testifies that the first time she

383
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: heard about the reward was after to Forrest was sentenced

384
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: to death in July of two thousand and one, three

385
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 1: years after he was convicted. She says that's when someone

386
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: from the DA's office contacted her and asked her to

387
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: come in and sign papers for the reward money. At

388
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 1: the end of this five hour hearing, Judge Pulliam says

389
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: she's not going to make a decision that day. She'll

390
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: consider all of the evidence and then issue her ruling

391
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: to Forrest's mother, Donna, sitting next to me, bursts into tears.

392
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: After the hearing, I was going over my notes and

393
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: noticed a big discrepancy between the state's story and Violet

394
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: Ellison's testimony about what triggered the reward three years after

395
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: to Forrest was convicted. In opening statements, the state lawyer

396
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: said that Violet Ellison asked the DA's office about the reward,

397
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: but on the stand, Violet said it was the other

398
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: way around that they contacted her. This might seem like

399
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: a minor detail, but knowing what triggered the reward payment

400
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: is key in determining whether or not this is a

401
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: Brady violation. Who called who first? How did this payment

402
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: come about? So I emailed the Attorney General's office for

403
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: some clarity, and they directly contradicted Violet Ellison's testimony again,

404
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: writing three years after the trial, Ellison requested the cash

405
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: reward that had been offered by the governor, and since

406
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:59,239
Speaker 1: then Alabama's Attorney General completely reversed the state's narrative. The

407
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: AG's offic now claims that the prosecutor asked for the

408
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: reward to be paid unbeknownst to Violet Ellison. But former

409
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: DA David Barber told me he wouldn't do that, that

410
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: rewards were triggered by law enforcement or a witness themselves

411
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: applying for a reward, and Prosecutor Jeff Wallace said he

412
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with rewards. Everyone I asked gave

413
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: a different answer, pointing the finger in a different direction.

414
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: Nobody wanted to own up to triggering the payment. The

415
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: state continuously changing its story on this important detail isn't

416
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: just sloppy, it's incredibly suspicious. It takes nine months for

417
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: Judge Pulliam to issue her decision. She writes that she

418
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: found Violet Ellison to be confident, describing her as well

419
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: dressed and well spoken, and that her articulate testimony outweighed

420
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: the evidence presented by to Forrest Johnson's attorneys. William says

421
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: the documents don't prove that Violet Ellison knew about the

422
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: money when she testified and don't amount to misconduct by

423
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: the state. She doesn't address the fact that it took

424
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: the state seventeen years to admit they had paid Violet Ellison.

425
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 3: Really, what she was doing was validating the credibility of

426
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 3: Violet Ellison, saying I didn't know that there was even

427
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 3: a reward offered in the case, which is impossible to believe,

428
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 3: and then validating her testimony that three years after the trial,

429
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 3: not having known that there was even a reward offered

430
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 3: in the case, the DA's office out of the blue

431
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 3: caught her up one day and said, Hey, remember that

432
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 3: case you testified in. We have five thousand dollars of

433
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 3: the state's money that we'd like to give you for that.

434
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 3: Do you want to come down and get it? And

435
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 3: she said sure and came down and got it, which

436
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 3: is also impossible to believe.

437
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 5: To.

438
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: Forrest's legal team appeals the decision, and in April of

439
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, I attend oral arguments in front of

440
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: the State Court of Criminal Appeals. I notice all five

441
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: judges on the court are white. In fact, everyone in

442
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: the courtroom is white. The disconnect is striking to Forest Johnson.

443
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: Isn't here All these white people are discussing the fate

444
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: of a black man who is locked away on death row,

445
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: completely absent from this process. This dynamic isn't unique to

446
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: this hearing. Black people make up twenty seven percent of

447
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: Alabama's overall population, but fifty four percent of the state

448
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: prison population. There are no black appellate judges and only

449
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: three of the forty two elected das and Alabama are black.

450
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: This lack of representation means it's almost always white people

451
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: making policy and punishment decisions that impact a disproportionate poor

452
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: and black population. To Forest, hearing in the Court of

453
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: Criminal Appeals lasts just forty nine minutes. It's another denial.

454
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 2: At the end of the trial, once the verdict was

455
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 2: read and everything was done, the jury was finished with

456
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: their job. Now, I remember the judge saying that to

457
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 2: Forrest would be sentenced at another date.

458
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: Monique Kicks again, who served on the jury into Forrest's

459
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: second trial. Monique wanted to talk with me after she

460
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: saw a news story about Violet Ellison and the reward payment,

461
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: so I made the hour long drive to her house

462
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: to speak to her in person. Monique was twenty seven

463
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: years old when she voted for Forest's guilt and a

464
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: death sentence. As soon as that was over, security quickly

465
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: ushered the jury out the back door of the courthouse

466
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: to the parking deck. She never found out if the

467
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: judge agreed that to Forrest should be put to death

468
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: or spend life in prison.

469
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 2: I never heard anything, didn't see it in the news,

470
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 2: may have dismissed it that night. The internet wasn't a thing.

471
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 2: I couldn't look it up, google it, so I honestly

472
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 2: never knew ultimately what happened to mister Johnson.

473
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: Twenty years later, Monique gets a book recommendation from a friend.

474
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: The Sun Does Shine, a memoir by Anthony Ray Hinton,

475
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 1: a black man from Birmingham who was sent to death

476
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: row in nineteen eighty five despite a solid alibi and

477
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: no eyewitnesses tying him to the murder. He was exonerated

478
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: thirty years later.

479
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 2: And so I was reading the book book and as

480
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 2: I'm reading the book, I'm like, oh, wow, this was

481
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 2: set in Birmingham in the eighties. I was like, I

482
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 2: was on a jury in the nineties in Jefferson County

483
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: in Birmingham. That's interesting. By the time I got to

484
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 2: the end of the book, I remember I looked at

485
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 2: my husband and I said, Oh, my goodness, I think

486
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: we convicted an innocent man, because I was like, there's

487
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 2: no way ten years later that the injustices and the

488
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 2: corruption that were going on in the system had cleaned

489
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: themselves up. About two weeks later, I'm sitting on my

490
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 2: sofa and I opened up my local news app to

491
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 2: just read the headlines to Forrest Johnson has been claiming

492
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 2: innocence for over twenty years on death row, something to

493
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: that effect. And I opened up the article and started reading,

494
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 2: and I just started sobbing, like uncontrollable, because I was like, Oh,

495
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: my goodness, we did convict an innocent man and he's

496
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,760
Speaker 2: been on death row all these years, and I didn't

497
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 2: know it.

498
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: It wasn't until twenty nineteen, more than two decades after

499
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: she voted to convict to Forrest Johnson, that Monique learned

500
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: that the state's key witness, Violet Ellison, was paid in

501
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: secret for her testimony.

502
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 2: You know, the star witness was paid and the defense

503
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 2: didn't know it. The jurors didn't know it. So yeah,

504
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 2: I was shocked. And then I was like, well, how

505
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 2: shocked were to Forrest and his family when we accused

506
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 2: him of being guilty? So I just can't imagine what

507
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: that was like to them. Another blow.

508
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 1: At the time of the trial, Monique found Violet Ellison

509
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: to be composed and confident. Do you think that your

510
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: impression of her would have been different had you known

511
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 1: she was being paid five thousand dollars?

512
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: I definitely believe we would have as a jury talked

513
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 2: about that, like how credible is this testimony? She's being

514
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 2: paid for it. Yes, I do think there would have

515
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 2: been conversations about it, and I do believe it would

516
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 2: have changed out could have changed outcome. I really felt

517
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 2: like the jury was used in this big game of injustice.

518
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 2: We were just just like, here's some theories. We're just

519
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 2: gonna keep throwing them out until we can get a

520
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 2: group of people together to believe it, and I just

521
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 2: feel like we were being used in this game. They

522
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: needed a conviction. It was a high profile case, you know,

523
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 2: it was a sheriff's deputy. Somebody needed to pay for it.

524
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 2: And to me, it just seems like we're just going

525
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 2: to throw these things out, gather people together until we

526
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 2: get some that believe it, And unfortunately I was in

527
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 2: the group that believed it.

528
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: Monique is one of three jurors that I've interviewed. All

529
00:38:55,360 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 1: three regret voting to convict to Forest Johnson. None of

530
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: them could quite put their finger on why they were

531
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: convinced of his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, other than

532
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: believing Violet Ellison. Once they learned she was paid for

533
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 1: her testimony, it was like to Forrest suddenly became real

534
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: to them. The weight of their decision was crushing. But

535
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: besides speaking out about their regret, there's nothing they can do.

536
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: They can't take back their votes. They have to live

537
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: with their decision.

538
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: Felt a lot of grief, Shane guilt for having been

539
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: a part of this. I'm pretty even kill person. I'm

540
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 2: not a cryer, you know how some people cry it out.

541
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 2: Anything that's not my go to. I'm not a big crier,

542
00:39:55,040 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 2: but anytime the subject comes up, it is like brief

543
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 2: deep in my soul and I just get very emotional.

544
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: I felt like I needed to talk to the person

545
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: at the center of the case outside of courtrooms and legalies.

546
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: I wanted to hear from Violet Ellison. She has a

547
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 1: small brick house on a busy street in Birmingham. When

548
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: I go there, the main front door is open, and

549
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 1: as I walk closer, I can see Violet Ellison sitting

550
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: inside wearing a robe. She stands up and turns to

551
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: face me. Hey are you miss Violet Ellison? Miss Ellison,

552
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: my name is Beth. I'm a journalist and I was

553
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: hoping to talk to you about the Deputy Hardy murder

554
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: that you were a witness in. Eventually she steps out

555
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: onto the porch, where we continue the conversation.

556
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 5: And I feel like I'm just being really cute for

557
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 5: telling the truth.

558
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I do.

559
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 1: I don't want you well, I just wanted to ask

560
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: you about the issue of the reward, since that what

561
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: is That's what I mean. I talked to Violet Ellison

562
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 1: for twenty minutes and she tells me no less than

563
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: a dozen times that she did not know about the

564
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: reward when she came forward to talk to police, and

565
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 1: that she did not know about it when she testified

566
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: against Forrest at two trials. You do you think about

567
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: the fact that he's on death row though, I mean,

568
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: I know you said you don't really to support the

569
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: death penalty.

570
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, well I did at first, you know, in trouble

571
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 5: my spirit, and as time went by, you try to

572
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 5: forget the bad things that you know happened.

573
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 1: But it's a little surreal for me to be face

574
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: to face with Violet Ellison, this woman who's the lynchpin

575
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: of the entire case against the forest. As we say goodbye,

576
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: she delivers the most ironic thank you I've ever received,

577
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: telling me she appreciates me talking to her directly instead

578
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: of relying on someone else's characterization of what she said.

579
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 10: You know, nobody has come to me like you to

580
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 10: see how I feel about it, and they just report

581
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 10: and on what somebody say hearsay. And I don't like

582
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 10: that because you'll never get the truth like that.

583
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is a man on death row because the

584
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 1: jurors believed Violet Ellison. Now we know what the jury

585
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: didn't know at trial, that she was paid for her

586
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: testimony and that the state hid this information. They told

587
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: the jury that Violet Ellison was credible and believable, and

588
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 1: they still say that, but they weren't truthful about the reward.

589
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 1: So why should we believe how they characterize their key witness.

590
00:43:58,080 --> 00:43:59,760
Speaker 7: I hate to see it. I know that's my grandmother.

591
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 7: That's a true scam. Audi deal in a way she

592
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 7: can get a dollar. I'm telling you she ain't that tight.

593
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 7: That's just gonna help Tom out, just to help them.

594
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 7: It gotta have money, how it gotta have money at.

595
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: Long Wow, that's next time. Ear Witness is a production

596
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company

597
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: Number One. Executive producers are Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis,

598
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: and me Beth Shelburn. The investigative reporting for this series

599
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 1: was done by me and MARAA. McNamara. Producers are Mara McNamara,

600
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: Hannah Bial and Jackie Polly Karakornhaber is our senior producer.

601
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 1: Britt Spangler is our sound designer. Additional story editing from

602
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: Marie Sutton, fact check help from Catherine Newhan, and special

603
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: thanks to to Forrest Johnson's legal defense team. You can

604
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Twitter at

605
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 1: Lava for Good. To see behind the scenes content from

606
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 1: our investigation, visit Lava for goood dot com. Slash ear

607
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 1: Witness