WEBVTT - #146 Jason Flom with Jamal Trulove 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:04.640 On the night of July twenty third, two thousand and seven, 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:07.400 Jamal true Love was hanging out in the common area 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:10.840 of San Francisco's Sunnydale Projects with his younger brother, Joshua. 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:15.560 Jamal's friend sel Kuka, drove up intoxicated, ripping off the 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.960 side view mirror from Joshua's car. Jamal got between Cel 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:22.279 and his brother. Then gunfire in the air would send 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:25.000 Cel into an alcohol fueled rage. In search of a 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.960 gun himself, Jamal tried to come sell again, who pushed 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:32.239 him away and punched another man. Frustrated and fed up, 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.159 Jamal left the scene, only to turn in time to 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:38.960 witness his friend Cell being gunned down in the street. Now, 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.560 since snitching is a surefire away to be sent to 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:45.280 the same fate, Jamal kept his mouth shut. Cel's cousin, 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.920 Priscilla Lualamaga, would go downtown to identify the shooter she 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.839 claimed to see from her second story window, only to 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:55.720 pass over Jamal's mugshot that was in plain sight. Police 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:58.640 pressured her to name Jamal so they could coerce the 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:02.280 identity of the shooter. Either he would name the killer 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:06.240 or he'd go down for the murder. Himself. Jamal would 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:10.440 receive fifty years to life. The prosecutor's closing argument would 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:14.480 point to l Wallamaga's bravery in light of the supposed 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:19.000 thread of Jamal Truelove. This comment, unsupported by evidence and 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.479 unobjected to by counsel, would ultimately lead to a new 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:25.120 trial in which Jamal's new lawyers would be able to 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:29.480 successfully argue that ballistic evidence at the autopsy report proved 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:33.080 that the shooter was out of the Wallamaga's second story view. 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:38.240 Jamal was finally set free in twenty fifteen. This is 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:55.080 Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:57.560 with Jason Flamm. That's me. I'm your host, and today 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:01.920 I'm very excited because this this is a story I've 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.120 wanted to tell from quite some time, and that's primarily 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:09.720 because of the person who survived this incredible ordeal, Jamal Truelove. 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:11.760 He has the best name on top of everything else. 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.360 So Jamal, welcome, Hey, thanks for having me. 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:14.720 Jason. 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:17.400 Yeah. Man, Like I always say, I'm sorry you have 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:19.960 to be here, but I'm really happy that you are here. 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:23.320 So Jamal, this story touches me on a personal level 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:27.119 because you were in the entertainment business before this horrible 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:30.720 misidentification and all the other things that went wrong happened 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:33.840 to you. Can you talk a little bit about that? 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:35.880 Because you grew up in San Francisco. 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:41.320 Right, Yes, grew up in San Francisco Sunnydale Projects. Always 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:46.440 wanted to get into entertainment within music and acting, and. 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.440 The ball was starting to bounce your way, so to speak. Right, 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:52.040 because at the time of this incident, you had been 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:56.080 recently featured on the reality TV show Popped, the show 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:58.800 called I Love New York Too. Right, you were just 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.760 a kid from the project with no connections, but you 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:03.880 were making it happen anyway. How did you do that? 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:07.600 Well, initially I was recording music. My friend had a 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:10.000 studio which he would lend me some time to get 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:14.560 into actually record, and then I had an opportunity to 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:19.600 audition for this character for this show called I Love 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.440 New York Too. So I figured if I could get 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.240 on the show and put a name to a face, 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:28.840 then I will get the exposure that I need to 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:32.720 shine on to my music and to ultimately get into film. 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.120 And sure enough you had now gone and shot this show. 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:38.400 Which did you shoot in La or yeah, it was 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.560 based in La and so this was like an exciting 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:43.840 time for you. How old were you at the time, Jamal. 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.400 Well, I started recording music when I was sixteen years old. 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:51.960 When I ended up landing on the show, I was freshly. 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.320 Twenty one, So a kid with big dreams and aspirations 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:59.040 and you know, the ability to really manifest those things. 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.680 And I think people let meet you now still see 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:03.720 that same spark. It makes it a certain way. It 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:08.520 makes this wrong for conviction more tragic. So, Jamal, your 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.320 life took a terrible turn because of events that occurred 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:16.480 around eleven pm on July twenty third of two thousand 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:18.440 and seven. And of course you know what I'm referring to, 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:22.720 but it was that night that twenty eight year old 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:26.919 sel Kuka, was a resident in your housing project, was 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.359 shot nine times. How did this happen? How did you 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.600 find out about it? And how did you get misidentified 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:34.200 as the shooter. 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.000 We were all kicking it in the projects in the 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.760 area that would typically chill at and the incident had 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:45.600 happened between Sale Kuka and my little brother Joshua. Sale 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:50.240 was intoxicated driving up the street where he came real 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.839 close to my brother's car and ripped off his Sime mirror, 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:58.080 and you know, I've seen it but didn't think too 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.599 much of it. Then somebody yelled down to me like 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.599 there was some type of altercation between him and my brother. 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:07.800 So I come through to diffuse the situation. I seen 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:11.479 how my brother was contorting his face. Sells, one of 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:14.440 my good friends. He's got some liquor in them, so 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:16.760 you know, he's ramped up. He's not trying to take 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:20.200 no blame, and they're getting closer to each other where 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:22.520 it's gonna end up, you know, turning into a fight. 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:26.640 So I intervened, you know, I told both of them chill, relaxed. 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.240 Sale was hyped up to start being kind of a 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:34.680 crowd people looking on, and next you know, we hear 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.240 some gunshots going off kind of like I guess in 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.440 the air, and I think, you know that field Sell 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:44.120 that much more to feel some type of way, and 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:47.279 he started heading down saying that he was gonna go 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:51.919 get a gun. So me, I remember some of my 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:54.719 other friends used to you know, kind of contain his 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:58.240 anger when he's in this type of stake. So me 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:02.080 trying to prevent anything from escalating. I kind of followed him, 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:04.880 and he was asking somebody one of our other friends 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:08.200 to give him a gun, and I'm telling him, no, like, bro, 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.039 there ain't no reason for all of that. But he like, 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.080 you know, m mess out here shooting and I'm like that 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.440 ain't got nothing to do with us or this situation. 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:18.200 So I got like close up on him. I like 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:20.679 held him, like, you know, in a kind of bear hug, 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.640 and he's like way bigger than me. I'm probably like 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.440 one hundred and fifty pounds soaking wet at that point, 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:30.320 and he's like two twenty two thirty at least, and 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.720 he's listening, but you could definitely tell that he's kind 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.479 of drunk. And then he kind of bust out of 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.000 my bear hug in an angry type of way, and 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:43.479 at that point it felt like, you know, he wasn't 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:47.440 trying to hear me or calm the altercation. So I 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:49.760 ended up leaving across the street, which I had my 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:52.960 car inside the parking lot. I had a female friend 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:56.560 inside the car. I bent down to let her know 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.080 that we're about to get up out of here, and 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:01.919 by the time I stood up from the side of 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:07.520 the car, I seen sale skipping around the building right 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.840 there from off of the street, and I seen the 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:16.440 perpetrator already holding the gun in the shooting position. Before 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:20.360 I could say stop, gunshots had already rained off. So 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:24.120 I just got down until all the gunshots was overwood. 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:27.840 And typically in situations like this in the project, regardless 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.520 if you did something or if you didn't do it, 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.080 you just h tail up out of there. So that's 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:34.040 what I ended up doing. 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.880 So I'm gonna ask you point blank, did you know 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.160 at the time who the actual shooter was. 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:42.440 Yes, I did, And there. 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:45.720 Were a lot of witnesses. Thirty or more witnesses were 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:48.080 there because as you described, it was a street team, 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:50.440 a lot of people hanging out, of course, and it 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:52.040 seemed like this a lot of people are going to 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:54.840 be scared to come forward. Nobody wants to be labeled 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:55.760 to snitch. 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.480 Because I know what that actually means. Something happened to 0:07:58.520 --> 0:07:59.400 me my family. 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.840 But one woman did come forward and she became a 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:07.040 key part of this whole awful scenario, right And this 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:12.000 woman's name was Priscilla Lualamaga, and she claimed to have 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.080 seen the whole thing from her second story window. Already, 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.360 my spidy sense to start tingling because it's eleven o'clock 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.520 at night, it's dark. It sounds like a pretty dicey 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:24.920 scenario to think that she's going to identify somebody. But okay, 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:30.120 so she told police that her distant relative was just deceased. 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:33.680 Sell Kuka was chasing another man around a car who 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:38.880 she identified as your brother, Joshua. And then she further 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:43.120 claimed that while chasing Joshua, Kuka bumped into a knockdown 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:45.360 another man who got up, chased him down the street 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.880 and sloping downhill and open fire close range, so this 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:50.720 is important. She gets taken to the police station and 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.000 showing thirty four mug shots that were set up on 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.320 a bulletin board, and she recognized many of the mugshots 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.720 at spaces from her neighborhood, understandably. But then in the 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:00.920 two hours she was in that room with the bulletin 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:05.000 board of mugshots, she didn't recognize your face, correct, which 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.160 was immediately above Joshua Bradley's mugshots. So that's even weirder, right, 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.120 it was right there in front of her face, and 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:13.160 she still didn't recognize it, okay, correct. So two days 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.600 later the cops come to her workplace and take us 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:16.000 from there. 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:21.360 Two days later the police came to her workplace, but 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.480 the day before that, it is real interesting that they 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:28.920 actually came to her house showing her a mugshot picture 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:33.920 which we believe to have been me, and they denying 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.160 that it was me that didn't run side by side 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:40.120 to what you ultimately ended up coming out when it 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.959 comes down to the lineup and the mug shots. So 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.640 they told her that if we were to bring a 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.880 photo lineup with the person who did it inside the 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:51.439 lineup which be able to identify it. So the next 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:53.880 day they went to her job. They brought her a 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:59.440 six pack lineup with really me wearing an orange jumpsuit 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.640 and everybody else in playing clothes. But she had already 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.880 identified the other people, you know, not being the person 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:08.720 and people that she already knows. 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.640 It's even worse than that, right, because of the fact 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:15.160 that she said that you quote unquote looks like the 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.440 guy who could have shot Kouka, right, So that's pretty 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:19.079 damn weak. 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.280 The six pack lineup, it had two standout things. It 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:27.400 had me inside of an orange jumpsuit and then it 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:31.640 also had the dates that came off of the system 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:35.319 when they brought up the mug shots where my date 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.480 was dated different than the other dates that came off 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.800 of the system. Because they had me down as the 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:43.480 shooter on day one. 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:47.000 Why do you think the detectives had it out for 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:48.800 you or they just like, whoever, we just got to 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:49.920 close the case. It doesn't matter. 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.920 I wasn't somebody that was out there. I was always 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:55.480 trying to do something positive. I was doing music, you know, 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.199 I'll hang around, of course, but with my name coming 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:03.520 up on the day that actually happened, whether they wanted 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.800 questions from me or them saying oh it was the 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.280 guy that Jamal was with, they was like, okay, this 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:12.440 is how we gonna get him. We're gonna pressure him. 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.120 It's aid either tail on the person who did it, 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:18.120 or we're gonna make sure that he goes down for this. 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:23.600 And then no weapon was recovered, but hl casings were 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.480 found down hill from the body, in the trail leading 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:28.959 up to the body, which means that what she said 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:32.600 was false because she said the shooter was chasing Kuka downhill. 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.120 So now we know, and they should have known that 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:37.840 she didn't know what the fuck she was talking about. 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:42.400 So to be honest right, her representation of what actually happened. 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.480 If anything, she could have only seen what was on 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.640 the side of that building. She didn't see when the 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:50.200 person was actually shooting. 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.920 She told police that Sela Kuka was chasing another man 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:57.120 around the car and then Kooka bumped into a knockdown 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.360 another man who got up, chased him down the street 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:01.880 and sloping down on hill and open fire close range. 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.880 It wasn't me who sail had knocked down? 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:06.560 What was her agenda here? Do you know? 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:11.319 Her whole thing? And the family which I was deeply 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:15.800 connected to, felt like they weren't scared of me, they 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:19.600 were scared of the person who actually did it, right, 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:23.600 So by way of throwing me in there, they felt 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.800 that I was going to tell on the person who 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:27.719 actually did it. 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:28.479 Wow. 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:30.760 So that's the big boom right there. 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:35.160 And then things take another crazy turn, right because the 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.160 TV show airs the show that you were in, which 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.360 should have been a cause for celebration. She happens to 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.760 see the TV show, right, and then she comes back 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:46.120 and says, oh, now I know it's definitely him. 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.880 Yeah, So they were getting her closer and closer to 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.120 that it was me one hundred percent, and then on 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.000 top of her saying that she talked to her cousin, 0:12:56.920 --> 0:13:00.040 and then on top of the detectives really trying to 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.880 get somebody to go to jail for this. You know, 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.520 that's what brewed up to what that ultimately ended up being. 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:11.200 But even still that didn't work. What ultimately ended up 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:16.280 happening was I said. About fourteen months later, the police 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:20.480 had did a traffic stop with this other woman named Letitia, 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:24.880 who had a gun in her lap, had cracked cocaine 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.160 on her baby in the back, had her boyfriend who 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:32.839 was on parole in the passenger seat. Pulled over. She's 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:37.080 going to jail, and she goes down and they basically say, well, 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.920 if you could tell us X, Y, and Z about 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:45.520 this case, everybody basically goes free. She initially tells them 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:50.000 that it was daylight and this altercation happened, and then 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.480 she said she looked through the window and looked all 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:55.680 the way down the block and seeing that this happened, 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:59.280 and just threw my name in there. So there was 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.720 a lot of things is wrong with that, right as 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:04.320 if first, she says that she's seen it for fifty 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:08.800 yards away on a slant heel in the daylight, when 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.520 it didn't happen in the daytime, it happened at night. 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:17.080 But what got the arrest warrant was the write up 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:21.480 that detectives had rolled up. They were guiding her the 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.920 whole way, making everything like it was a clear record, 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:29.920 and then wrote at the bottom extremely credible. So now 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:33.080 when they take that to the DA, now they feel 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.440 they have two witnesses saying the same exact thing. 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:40.760 So this is a crazy timeline too, because the crime 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.000 we know happens in two thousand and seven, you don't 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:46.160 get brought in and rested until two thousand and eight, 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.160 over a year later, and then the trial doesn't happen 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:51.320 till twenty ten. 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:52.280 Correct. 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:54.720 So during that time were you in jail, did you 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.800 bail out? How did that unfold? After you arrested? 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:02.480 Well, after I was arrested, they wanted to question me. Obviously, 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.160 there's two things you can do. You can give up information, 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:08.520 but never mind that because in that situation, which you're 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:11.840 taught in the streets, is you know it's not to snitch, 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.960 not to give up information. Something happened to me my family, 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:19.600 you know, So I balanced that with also knowing that 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.440 it's not my duty to put somebody else into jail. 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:25.000 That's for them to actually get it right. And that 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.360 was my way of going at it. So it actually 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:28.840 took me about a year and a half to go 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.520 to trial. It was hard trying to get the thirty 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:33.680 people that was out there to actually come in, you know, 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.600 not say who did it, you know, but to say 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.240 I didn't do it. I wasn't trying to put nobody 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:41.840 in no situation where I was trying to have somebody 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.880 else tell on the assailant because I wasn't going to 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.160 do anything like that. Then I have to go what 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.000 hide for the rest of my life or something. That's 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.760 just not my job. That's up to the system to do. 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.520 So nobody would want to be in that situation. But 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:57.600 you were in it, and you're still just a young 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:02.000 guy without you know, resources, and so you roll with 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:03.160 it and you go to trial. 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:06.280 Yeah, so we thought the case added an identity case, 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.480 you know, identity testify. We didn't call nobody to testify 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:11.840 or whatever. So it took three days and then it 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:16.360 took five days of deliberation. Ultimately they came back with 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:20.400 a murder one conviction. It was it was definitely tough 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.720 I stayed optimistic because I know I didn't do it 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.000 at the end of the day, and that's what, ultimately, 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:28.520 you know, kept the wools turning in my mind on 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:29.920 how do I figure this out? 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.880 And you were convicted, of course, and you were sentenced 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:42.560 to fifty years in prison. 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.680 So I want you to understand this right before I 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:47.840 get since it's to fifty the life I'm inside of 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.880 my cell, I become we're doing a retrial motion right 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:54.240 to ask for a retrial before a sentence. I'm come 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:56.880 back from church, come aside. It's a twelve man like 0:16:56.960 --> 0:16:59.960 tank and this kid by the name of Oliver Bart 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.280 sentence comes up to me. Now I don't know who 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:05.159 this kid is. He comes up to me and he 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.000 asked me, like, you know, is your last name true Love? 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.000 And I say yes. He said, did you go to 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.320 jail like in seven I'm like no, but that's when 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.480 my case happened. He said yes. I remember being in 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:22.320 a police station at the time where some like some 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:26.240 mooning girl and some detectives came in and she was 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.560 crying and they were pointing out a picture saying are 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:35.320 you sure it ain't something something? True Love? And I'm 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.320 like whoa, you know, and it blows my mind that 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:40.680 it just so happens that I run into this guy 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.879 and he had just been transported from sam Bruno Jail 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.879 to San Francisco County on his way to prison. And 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:52.040 he's seen in the newspaper when he was in saying 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:55.560 Bruno about my case, and he remembered the last name 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.800 that was the first spark. And then when he ended 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:01.560 up in a sale with me the name again, that's 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.760 when he actually approached me and told me these things. 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:08.240 So I called my attorney immediately and tell my attorney 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.040 about him, and my attorney came up and you know, 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.400 talk to him, got his statement, and come to find out, 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.720 he was at the police station at the exact same 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:21.080 time that Lula Lamanga had came into the police station. 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.159 He was a sixteen year old kid come to the 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:28.680 bench watching all of this unfold. So what he ended 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:32.960 up saying was big in my case because remind you 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:37.160 that that photo, that photo and the six pack lineup 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:41.240 that had the date that was different from everybody else's 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.600 which we called in the question made that much more 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:48.159 sense because they had me down as the shooter on 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:52.560 day one, and what made more sense from his testimony, 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.119 is why she never put it at my picture on 0:18:56.359 --> 0:19:00.119 the wall, because on day one she was saying that 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:03.480 it wasn't me. Even on day two she was saying 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:07.440 it wasn't me. Now this is newly found evidence. There 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:10.240 was no way that we could have knew that this 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.960 kid was inside the police station. So there's no way 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:16.720 we could have called him. Now, just in the heap 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.359 of that time, what was going on in San Francisco. 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:23.360 You got you know, Kamala Harris, who's going to try 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:28.639 to be Attorney General. You have another case which got overturned, 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.440 and then you have a big drug scandal that's happening 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:36.280 in San Francisco also at the exact same time. So 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.520 in the retrial motion hearing when we put him on 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:44.440 the stand to testify, Linda Allen, the city's attorney, attacked 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:48.280 Oh that he was a gang member and he's trying 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:51.639 to do this for a favor for the blacks, like 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:56.560 some prison politics type stuff. And neither one of us 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.159 have ever been to prison, and we just don't know 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:03.399 each other at all. So in this moment though that 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:07.480 this is new discovered evidence, I feel like I was 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:12.400 politicked out because if they were to grant me a retrial. 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.400 That would have been two murder cases with convictions granted 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:21.200 retrial before conviction. And plus the drug scandal that was 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:26.640 national attention. So ultimately, even what Oliver Barcon is, they 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:31.400 still denied my retrial motion. That's when I got sentenced 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:32.760 to fifty to life in prison. 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:37.520 Yeah, I mean it's important to look at the role 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.600 that politics played in this because there was a lot 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.600 going on and now things are really looking a lot 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:46.960 better in San Francisco with the new DA Chase A. Boudin, 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:50.200 who is doing incredible, incredible thing is probably the most 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:54.240 impactful six months of any new prosecutor in the history 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:55.840 of this country, I would say, in terms of what 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.560 he's been able to accomplish. But that's a separate issue. 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.800 Mss Harris at the time does not come out. I mean, 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:03.920 we can't sugarcoat it. I mean, she was one of 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.840 the villains in this story, in your story, and in 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:10.560 too many other stories that took place around this time. 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:14.720 Yeah, the think about Kamala Harris as a senator, she 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:17.439 talks a lot of things that ploys towards the African 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.040 American community, and you know it's good, Like if I 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.960 didn't go through the experience that I went through, then 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:26.439 I will probably be on the side of what Kamala 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:29.439 Harris actually talks about. And that's if you know, I 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:32.720 didn't find out about me. But when we talk about 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:36.360 being a progressive prosecutor, I think of chase A Boudin 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:41.080 Kamala Harris at the time she had opportunity to alleviate 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.040 this case and dive into it, especially a murder charge. 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:48.800 Any head DA is overlooking any murder charge that's happening 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:53.560 inside of their city. But also just knowing politics at 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:57.080 that time. I know four people who went to jail 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.840 innocently for murders. In every single last one of them 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.960 got convicted. They call it a street sweep. Once elections 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:07.880 come up, they come through and they sweep any case 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:10.360 that they have. They say, arrest them, arrest them, marest them, 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.600 and look. I went to jail right before elections and 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:17.200 one of the detectives my dad had ran into before 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:20.760 I went to trial, Kevin Noble, had told my dad. 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:22.320