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Speaker 1: Welcome everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ Presents.

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Speaker 1: And we have been dying to talk to our friend

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Speaker 1: Alison Treesel. She has been our legal guide through so

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Speaker 1: many of these trials we have been following, and man

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Speaker 1: did we closely follow and were frankly a little shocked

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Speaker 1: at this week's verdict in the Brendan Banfield aka the

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Speaker 1: O Pair.

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Speaker 2: Affair double murder trial.

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Speaker 1: And look, TJ and I sat through almost every minute

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Speaker 1: of this trial, all the testimony, from opening statements to

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Speaker 1: closing arguments or was it opening arguments to closing statements?

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Speaker 1: I always get it confused opening statements to closing arguments. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and the verdict still was a little surprising to us.

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Speaker 1: And Alison Treesel very famous, renowned, experienced, thirty plus year

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Speaker 1: career of criminal defense, high profile cases.

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Speaker 2: She's out of LA.

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Speaker 1: You've seen it all at this point, really, I mean

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Speaker 1: you've even seen a BDSM trial, So I mean you've

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Speaker 1: walked the walk, You've talked to talk you watched this

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Speaker 1: trial as well.

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Speaker 2: What was your reaction to the verdict.

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Speaker 3: Not only am I not surprised at all by the

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Speaker 3: verdict at all, I'm surprised that the jury deliberated for

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Speaker 3: nine hours. I mean I once he took the stand

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Speaker 3: and made statements like his wife, who had according to him,

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Speaker 3: been stabbed at that point multiple times in the neck,

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Speaker 3: turns to him and says, I'm sorry, I'm bleeding out.

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Speaker 3: I love you. That is a bunch of poppycock, okay,

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Speaker 3: And I don't know if that's a legal term I

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Speaker 3: use at all the time. Not believable, he lied through

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Speaker 3: his teeth. And by the way, I didn't like Juliana.

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Speaker 3: I mean I didn't like her on the stand. I

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Speaker 3: don't like her as a witness, but I found her

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Speaker 3: to be far more credible, far more believable, and her

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Speaker 3: testimony lined up with the evidence that was ultimately presented

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Speaker 3: in the case. And then the ultimate nail on the

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Speaker 3: call fin the ultimate and maybe the best witness out

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Speaker 3: of all witnesses, right, The prosecution called twenty, at least

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Speaker 3: twenty witnesses in their case in chief, and the defense

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Speaker 3: calls witnesses. Juliana's on the stand for two days, Brandon's

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Speaker 3: on the stand for two days. But I think the

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Speaker 3: best witness was the prosecution's rebuttal witness of the manager

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Speaker 3: that said meeting meeting there was no meeting. I mean

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Speaker 3: that alone. You know, there's a jury instruction and says,

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Speaker 3: if you don't believe a portion of somebody's testimony, you

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Speaker 3: can disregard all of it.

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Speaker 4: So was that the issue?

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Speaker 3: Then?

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Speaker 4: Do you think you would have had a he would

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Speaker 4: have had a better chance of not being convicted had

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Speaker 4: he not gotten up on the stand.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting because I thought about that. Let

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Speaker 3: me just run through a few things with people. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, for a case to go to trial, about

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Speaker 3: ninety to ninety five percent of all criminal cases across

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Speaker 3: the country do not go to trial. They resolve, you know,

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Speaker 3: whether it's a plea, a dismissal, diversion. So it's unusual

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Speaker 3: for cases to actually make their way to trial. The

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Speaker 3: conviction rate for trial. For the conviction rates are very

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Speaker 3: very high, right, So it's like a ninety percent conviction

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Speaker 3: rate when a case goes to trial, and of those cases,

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Speaker 3: only a very small percentage, you know, maybe twenty five percent,

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Speaker 3: thirty percent of defendants testify. And the reason that they

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Speaker 3: don't testify is you don't have to prove a thing.

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Speaker 3: You don't have to It is is completely the prosecution's burden.

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Speaker 3: They must prove by beyond a reasonable doubt that you

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Speaker 3: committed the offense. You don't have to call a witness.

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Speaker 3: And the problem is not in the direct examination, it's

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Speaker 3: the cross and will your client's story stand up to cross?

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Speaker 3: And from where I'm sitting, I found his direct to

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Speaker 3: be unbelievable and I found her cross to just destroy

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Speaker 3: his story. So did he have a choice? You know,

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Speaker 3: he seemed to be taking these notes that he was

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Speaker 3: very active in his defense, right, he was sitting there

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Speaker 3: furiously taking down notes throughout the entire trial. And the

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Speaker 3: decision to testify was ultimately his. And maybe he believed

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Speaker 3: that he was crafty enough and smart enough to outwit

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Speaker 3: that your But it did not help him. It did

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Speaker 3: not help him.

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Speaker 2: Wow, did it hurt him?

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Speaker 3: So there were parts that hurt him. So the explanation

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Speaker 3: were the the question about from the prosecutor that said

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Speaker 3: we didn't use the towel, the blanket, the sheets to

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Speaker 3: stop bleeding. That hurt him. The It was unbelievable for

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Speaker 3: him to say that this was a nothing burger of

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Speaker 3: a relationship with Juliana after they had been shown these

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Speaker 3: love letters, for him to call Julian say that he

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Speaker 3: only fell in love with her once she saved his life.

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Speaker 3: That was like an oh please moment for me and

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Speaker 3: I found that statement that you know, it took him

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Speaker 3: two minutes to say it, but it undid in my

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Speaker 3: in my opinion, any good that his testimony would would

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Speaker 3: have done for him. When he said, with her neck,

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Speaker 3: I mean, imagine her, this woman cannot speak, I mean,

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Speaker 3: this woman had her entire neck is gutted. And he

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Speaker 3: says that. She turns to him and says, I'm bleeding out.

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Speaker 3: I'm so sorry. I love you. I mean, come on,

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Speaker 3: if it was a movie, you'd say, I'm taking a

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Speaker 3: potty break right now, all right now. But now I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna ask you guys, because.

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Speaker 4: Look, no you're the expert.

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Speaker 3: Was about did you believe his testimony? What was it?

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Speaker 4: It wasn't him. I almost canceled, I think we but

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Speaker 4: almost canceled the two of them out because his story

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Speaker 4: seemed unbelievable, parts of it like give me a freaking break,

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Speaker 4: and then she happened to be so unlikable. So it

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Speaker 4: was almost two different things. It wasn't just that her

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Speaker 4: story was ridiculous. Some parts, she couldn't remember some stuff,

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Speaker 4: but she wasn't a great witness. He wasn't a great witness.

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Speaker 4: So we got hung up on the where the devices

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Speaker 4: were and with whom and who logged onto the feed.

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Speaker 4: We got caught up and all that stuff.

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Speaker 3: Okay, because so one of the things that happens, and

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Speaker 3: this is this is great that we're talking about. It

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Speaker 3: is if you are watching minute by minute as a

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Speaker 3: as a trial unfolds, and you you get stuck on

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Speaker 3: an issue, you do miss the big you do forget

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Speaker 3: about the big picture of the case. Okay, you forget

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Speaker 3: about well, jurors have to you know, and prosecutors in

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Speaker 3: this case, this is a if true, which it which

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Speaker 3: judging by the verdict, it we now he he now

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Speaker 3: is guilty. And you don't have to say allegedly, Okay,

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Speaker 3: you don't have to say allegedly this or you know,

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Speaker 3: you know he's guilty. He did this. So this was

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Speaker 3: a sinister plot. This was a plot that most people

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Speaker 3: on the planet would never think of, right so to

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Speaker 3: to set up this fetish site. And and also, by

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Speaker 3: the way, if I'm a jur and I'm thinking about

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Speaker 3: the fact that he comes up with the oh she

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Speaker 3: was having affairs too, and you know, one time I

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Speaker 3: knew that she was into b DSM, but there then

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Speaker 3: we learned that there's no proof of that at all.

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Speaker 3: There's no proof of that. I think, you know, this

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Speaker 3: is a real son of a bit. This is a

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Speaker 3: I mean for him to do this, to tarment, tarnish

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Speaker 3: his late wife, to disparaiture, to say all of these things.

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Speaker 3: And then you think of the cruelty of this plot

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Speaker 3: to kill his wife when all of us say, well,

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Speaker 3: why didn't you just get a divorce, Why didn't you

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Speaker 3: just get a divorce? You had to kill her and

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Speaker 3: your daughter was there and you and then you kill

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Speaker 3: this innocent man and you set him up. I mean,

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Speaker 3: how deranged are you? And and when you think about

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Speaker 3: that big picture right as a juror, and you say,

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Speaker 3: I don't believe him. I don't believe him. And is

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Speaker 3: he capable of this? And if you can get to

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Speaker 3: those two things, you're going to convict.

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Speaker 2: And to exactly what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: It's so hard to see this guy who looks he's

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Speaker 1: an IRS agent, looks like your next door neighbor, who's

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Speaker 1: telling you that he didn't do it, and he's saying,

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Speaker 1: why would I do something that egregious, that elaborate, that

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Speaker 1: manipulative for someone who I just started sleeping with six

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Speaker 1: weeks ago, that that was a hard thing for me

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Speaker 1: to come as a human because to believe that someone

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Speaker 1: could do that, and that's your reason, that was a

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Speaker 1: hard thing.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to believe him.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to think he didn't do those things.

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Speaker 3: Is sorry to cut you off. Did it make sense

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Speaker 3: to you that he would take Juliana to a gun range?

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Speaker 3: Did that make sense to you? I mean, really, did

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Speaker 3: it make sense to you that someone with a blood

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Speaker 3: disorder would tell someone to bring a knife for knife play?

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Speaker 3: Did it make see these kinds of things? And I

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Speaker 3: also when he said that is an absurd line of questioning, well,

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Speaker 3: that was so overly dramatic and such a forced response

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Speaker 3: that it wasn't believable to me. Juliana was not likable.

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Speaker 3: I am not going to tell you. And by the way,

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Speaker 3: the deal that she got, if I'm a juror, and

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Speaker 3: maybe I spend an hour during that nine hour deliberation saying,

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Speaker 3: this girl would have said anything for a deal like that,

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Speaker 3: anything for a deal like that.

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Speaker 1: That was the other thing that TJ and I kept

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Speaker 1: talking about like, how can you believe what she's saying

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Speaker 1: if she would say anything at this point she got

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Speaker 1: her freedom, she might forget even the money that she

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Speaker 1: might get from Netflix or any sort of like made

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Speaker 1: for TV movie that could be made or a book

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Speaker 1: that could happen from this, forgetting that part of it,

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Speaker 1: and just the idea that she went from saying I'll

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Speaker 1: die for you, I'll do anything for you, I would

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Speaker 1: never betray you to completely testifying against him to get

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Speaker 1: out of jail for free. It was just hard to

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Speaker 1: take her testimony as fact, all.

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Speaker 3: Right, And there was a jury instruction about it, right,

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Speaker 3: There was a jury instruction about it. And even though

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Speaker 3: she was not likable, her testimony aligned with the evidence

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Speaker 3: in this case, it aligned with the evidence in this case,

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Speaker 3: and that is extremely important. So it was corroborated and

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Speaker 3: his was disproven. His testimony was disproven. And when I'm

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Speaker 3: talking about the strength of that rebuttal witness, here he

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Speaker 3: is talking about how important this meeting was and how

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Speaker 3: it was a career defining meeting, right, I mean it

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Speaker 3: was a career defining meeting. And someone who has no

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Speaker 3: horse in this race, no horse in this race, you know,

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Speaker 3: one of the things that you do when when someone

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Speaker 3: has no motive. Right. So, so Juliana get out of

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Speaker 3: jail free card, right, Brandon Bansfield, he's he, he's he.

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Speaker 3: If convicted, he's going to spend the rest of his

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Speaker 3: life in prison. Right. So they both have a vested

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Speaker 3: interest in the outcome. Somebody reaches out to the prosecutor

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Speaker 3: has no vested interest in the outcome of the case,

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Speaker 3: comes forward and says, I was the manager on that

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Speaker 3: day and there was no meeting. There was no meeting.

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Speaker 3: That was That was a pretty powerful witness.

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Speaker 4: But that's the thing, Alison, No, okay, I listen my question.

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Speaker 4: What was the smoking gun? From an evidentiary standpoint? And

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Speaker 4: that is my problem because no.

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Speaker 3: No, no, don't stay what I'm doing.

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Speaker 4: I have so many I have so many give me.

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Speaker 3: Wait a minutej Now you've got me all riled up.

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Speaker 3: So many Okay, so many that I'm going to start

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Speaker 3: with the basics. Okay, they're having an affair. They're having

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Speaker 3: an affair, and so automatically, the first thing is he's

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Speaker 3: getting rid of her, so that Juliana can PLoP right in,

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Speaker 3: How does how does she PLoP right in? Well, that

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Speaker 3: little Brazilian jersey that she had that was in one closet,

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Speaker 3: then goes to the other closet. The picture of their

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Speaker 3: family change. What changed did Victoria and Brandon change? Nope,

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Speaker 3: just the woman, Just the woman right next to the bed. Boom. Okay,

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Speaker 3: the gun range, the gun range. Who takes uh someone

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Speaker 3: that you're barely interested? And then suddenly she's got the

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Speaker 3: gun and she knows how to use it and she

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Speaker 3: shoots somebody. Okay, a fat like, don't teach. I'm not done.

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Speaker 3: I haven't even started.

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Speaker 2: I've even started.

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Speaker 3: The fat life website for for a nurse. A nurse

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Speaker 3: who has no prior history of being involved in BDFSM lifestyle.

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Speaker 3: She's going to arrange to have some strength. She refuses

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Speaker 3: to meet anyone in public, refuses to meet anyone in public.

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Speaker 3: She is going to arrange and I see you, I

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Speaker 3: see you. Nurse with a young child is going to

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Speaker 3: arrange to have some stranger bring a knife tire up

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Speaker 3: ten raper at seven twenty in the morning at her

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Speaker 3: own home.

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Speaker 2: I give you that.

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Speaker 1: I was really disturbed by that, but that timeline made

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Speaker 1: no sense.

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Speaker 2: You're just getting your husband out of the house, your

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Speaker 2: daughter just leaving yeah, and you have.

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Speaker 3: Here's your lunch.

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Speaker 1: If any if anyone is delayed or doesn't leave when

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Speaker 1: they said they were going to, you're must That was

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Speaker 1: a hard one for me.

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Speaker 3: And don't meet me in public. I mean we talked

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Speaker 3: about this last time and I have I have had

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Speaker 3: a BBSM case and in that community, that's not how

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Speaker 3: things are done. That's not how things are done.

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Speaker 4: Okay, by the way, about the laptop quest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry TJ, but now you've got me. I'm like sweating.

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Speaker 3: My question about the laptop is a different one than

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Speaker 3: yours or all right, it is did they have access

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Speaker 3: to it? If someone would have said that laptop only

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Speaker 3: remained at her nursing station, okay, that, but it was

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Speaker 3: in a home that they all could access. That means

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Speaker 3: that you can't exclude those two. You can't exclude those

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Speaker 3: two from using it because they all had access to it.

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Speaker 3: And you look at her history, her life history, and

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Speaker 3: this is someone that all of a sudden is going

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Speaker 3: to have this random guy she's going to communicate as

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Speaker 3: Anastasia and rule out anyone that wants to meet publicly.

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Speaker 3: That doesn't make sense and come at seven twenty in

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Speaker 3: the morning for a little knife play. I mean, I'm watching,

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm watching a little morning news on KTLA.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what to tell you.

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Speaker 4: Okay, Okay, Yeah, let me try this again, Alison. I

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Speaker 4: should have asked it this way. What was the smoking gun?

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Speaker 4: From a forensics standpoint, everything you said, Allison, I agree

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Speaker 4: with it. All looks bad. That that doesn't make sense,

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Speaker 4: and chances are that's bullshit, but we were desperately looking

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Speaker 4: for something to go. Okay, if I can forget what

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Speaker 4: those two witnesses said, I still can rely on this

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Speaker 4: piece of evidence to put him in jail.

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Speaker 3: Okay, and that there was not In my mind, there

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Speaker 3: was not an evidentiary smoking gun. The totality. It was

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Speaker 3: the totality of the case. It was the brutality of

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Speaker 3: the physical evidence, the digital evidence, the unbelievable tale that who,

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Speaker 3: I mean, what was the motivation for Christine to be

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Speaker 3: involved in this? I mean what? And then what was Brandon's?

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Speaker 3: And Brandon's was readily apparent. Everybody can understand that he

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Speaker 3: didn't want the divorce, he didn't want to share custody,

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Speaker 3: he all of these things, and then there's a thirty

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Speaker 3: eight page letter that he writes to Juliana, I'm professing

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Speaker 3: his love. So you know you're looking at all of

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Speaker 3: that and you're saying, this makes way more sense to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it comes down to common sense. I still I

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Speaker 1: think what I can speak. We talked at nauseum about this,

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Speaker 1: and I do think this is. Both of our big

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Speaker 1: hang ups were those two detectives with the Fairfax County

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Speaker 1: Police Department, the digital forend experts to two of them

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Speaker 1: who both who.

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Speaker 3: Get booted because they're not they don't have the same

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Speaker 3: theory of the case.

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Speaker 1: They were reassigned because they didn't fall in line with

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Speaker 1: the catfishing theory, and so that for me was really

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Speaker 1: an important part of my thought.

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Speaker 2: I said this, I'm pretty sure he did it. I'm

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Speaker 2: pretty sure he's guilty.

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Speaker 1: But if I were on that jury, I don't know

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Speaker 1: how I would feel having watched all of this, especially

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Speaker 1: because of those two defense witnesses that would typically have

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Speaker 1: been prosecution witnesses. That probably wasn't good for their career

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Speaker 1: or their standing within the Fairfax County community police community

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Speaker 1: to be on that stand testifying for the defense.

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Speaker 2: But that was important for me in terms of me thinking.

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Speaker 2: We thought it was going to be a hung jury.

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Speaker 1: Us.

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Speaker 3: So what I have to say is, I'm now going

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Speaker 3: to fly both of you out here to be jurors

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Speaker 3: on every case that I have not in a bad way,

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Speaker 3: not a bad way, because you are the jur that

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Speaker 3: you want. You want to be questioning the evidence. You

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Speaker 3: want to listen intently and listen to both sides, don't

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Speaker 3: prejudge the case, listen to both sides, and keep an

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Speaker 3: open mind. You absolutely want that, no question, I mean that.

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Speaker 3: That's but at the end of the day, right, you've

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Speaker 3: got to say to yourself, did is Did he have

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Speaker 3: a motive to do this? Even though motive is not necessary?

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Speaker 3: Could he have done this? Could it be the way

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Speaker 3: the prosecution explained it? How compelling is their evidence? And

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Speaker 3: the totality of their evidence was very strong? Those two

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Speaker 3: government employees, My answer to that is their testimony was

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Speaker 3: wiped away when the prosecutor said, but you can't tell

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Speaker 3: us who was at the keyboard. Can't tell us who's

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Speaker 3: at the keyboard, right, I mean they didn't. They weren't able.

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Speaker 3: They weren't able to say that it was Christine. They

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Speaker 3: weren't able to say that, And so it kind of

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Speaker 3: brings you back to what I was talking about is

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Speaker 3: was it accessible to Brandon and Juliana And ultimately, and

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Speaker 3: ultimately their supervisor had a theory of the case. The

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Speaker 3: jury believed that theory of the case because he's been convicted,

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Speaker 3: and the supervisor felt that they were not they were

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Speaker 3: not following the evidence where he believed that it should lead.

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Speaker 4: So, yeah, Alison, we saw the two digital forensics guys

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Speaker 4: totally differently, like they might have been the most credible

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Speaker 4: people to us on the stand. And when those two

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Speaker 4: guys are saying the entire prosecution theory, we don't believe

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Speaker 4: it based on this, And to your point, the prosecutor said,

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Speaker 4: we don't know for sure who's behind that computer. That

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Speaker 4: means they don't know if it was Juliana or Brendan either.

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Speaker 4: And when those guys said definitively, we believe that there

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Speaker 4: was a time that that fet life account was used,

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Speaker 4: and those other two people were out of the house

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Speaker 4: when they gave that, I got to listen to that,

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Speaker 4: and so we got we did. We got hung up

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Speaker 4: on those two very credible guys.

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Speaker 3: And that look, that is not unreasonable, But I think

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Speaker 3: that you've got to take a step back, look at

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Speaker 3: the totality of the evidents that was presented, and then

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm telling you when when when I heard

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Speaker 3: Brandon's account of the day and the incident and her

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Speaker 3: turning to him, which is, by the way, he didn't

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Speaker 3: need to say any of that, he didn't need to say.

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Speaker 3: She turned to me, you know, head head half removed

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Speaker 3: from body and says, oh, I'm bleeding out. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 3: I love you. I mean, that's ridunculous, TJ.

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Speaker 2: When you put it like that, I get.

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Speaker 1: You know, what was what was a hard thing for

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Speaker 1: me where I really got hung up on Brendan's account

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Speaker 1: of what happened. I had a hard time believing that

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Speaker 1: Brendan sitting there as an IRS agent trained with his

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Speaker 1: firearm as government issue firearm, who says police while he's

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Speaker 1: claiming I forgot Joe Ryan is basically got his naked

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Speaker 1: wife with a knife and decides at that point not

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Speaker 1: to drop the knife, not to say hands up and

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Speaker 1: say can I leave? And then when Brandan says you're

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Speaker 1: under arrest, you know I've got I've got I've got

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Speaker 1: a gun trained on you. He then makes the decision

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Speaker 1: to start stabbing Christine I was like.

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Speaker 2: That makes no sense.

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Speaker 3: You would drop the knife. For your listeners that don't

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Speaker 3: watch this, I want them to know that I'm doing

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Speaker 3: that emoji with my hand smack in my face because police,

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Speaker 3: are you kidding? This is your wife who's being raped

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Speaker 3: and killed by somebody. Police, you know you're gonna use

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Speaker 3: the effort and you're going, I mean, come on, but

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Speaker 3: but then like to have Joe Harap ahead. She's not

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Speaker 3: gonna turn to you and say I'm sorry, I love you.

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Speaker 4: What I saw it in a movie once, I think

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Speaker 4: is something poetic?

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Speaker 2: You know it?

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Speaker 1: You know what's so frightening though, Alison and this, I

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Speaker 1: just feel, Look, it's crazy because I've been We've been

385
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Speaker 1: in an around cases not like this, but adjacent to.

386
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Speaker 2: This or equally evil for most of.

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Speaker 1: Our careers, for all of us have about a three

388
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Speaker 1: decade career now at this point covering this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: And still I find it so hard to believe that

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Speaker 1: someone could be that. It blows my mind, right, I mean,

391
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Speaker 1: think about what it took for him to do what

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Speaker 1: he's been convicted of.

393
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Speaker 2: I can't get my head around that.

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Speaker 3: And I think that in any case like this, where

395
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Speaker 3: the facts are so gruesome, right, They're so unbelievably gruesome

396
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Speaker 3: and cruel and heinous to someone that you have been

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Speaker 3: with for nineteen years, okay, and who is the mother

398
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Speaker 3: of your child. For someone to concoct a plot like

399
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Speaker 3: this carry it out, it's very hard to get there mentally,

400
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Speaker 3: to mentally wrap your head around the person who is

401
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Speaker 3: an IRS agent, who's sitting there in a suit, who

402
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 3: looks like an IRS agent okay, looks like a tax guy,

403
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Speaker 3: could have actually done something like this, killed an innocent man,

404
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 3: set him up, and then stabbed his wife to death

405
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Speaker 3: and let this innocent man take the fall. And then

406
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 3: he testifies that his wife had had multipleeral affairs, no

407
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 3: evidence of that, that she was into this BDSM sex play.

408
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Speaker 3: And when you start to unravel his story a little bit,

409
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Speaker 3: I think it was easier for the jurors to say, wait,

410
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Speaker 3: he's willing to say this about her, He's willing to

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Speaker 3: just do and say anything.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes.

413
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Speaker 1: And before that, before he goes and throws his dead

414
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Speaker 1: wife under the bus and this stranger under the bus

415
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Speaker 1: and completely maligns their characters, he's talking about doing multiplication

416
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Speaker 1: tables with his daughter. You know, it was was it

417
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Speaker 1: was just so to know and to believe now that

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Speaker 1: the jury got it right, that he is guilty of

419
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Speaker 1: all that the prosecution accused him of. To think that

420
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Speaker 1: that human exists and is masquerading as a normal nice

421
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Speaker 1: guy is just depressing as hell.

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Speaker 3: And it's it's you know, it's an unspeakable crime. It's

423
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Speaker 3: an unspeakable crime. And I do think that there was

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Speaker 3: a miscarriage of justice in the sentence that Juliana got,

425
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Speaker 3: because she's as culpable as he is.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a really important point, Alison, because I

427
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Speaker 1: have a hard time with the fact that she was

428
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Speaker 1: so well, I know she was only twenty one was,

429
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Speaker 1: but still that's old enough to know better to be

430
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Speaker 1: immediately willing to go along and then after the fact

431
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Speaker 1: to move in and become the wife basically and the

432
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Speaker 1: mommy and have no issue and problem with it until

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Speaker 1: you get arrested.

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Speaker 2: That is disturbing. And to know that she's now out

435
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Speaker 2: in the.

436
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: World, available and free to live her life, and I

437
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 1: don't know, that's a scared.

438
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 3: I mean, there is a miscarriage of justice here. You know,

439
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 3: the prosecution thought that without her they wouldn't if you

440
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 3: TJ if you you ask me, I guess with the

441
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 3: smoking gun in the cases, I think that the prosecution

442
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 3: certainly thought that without Julianna's testimony, they weren't going to

443
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 3: get a conviction.

444
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 4: M Yeah, well they had to have and they went

445
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 4: after for a year.

446
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and you know, and they were pretty

447
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 3: they were pretty straightforward with the jury about the deal

448
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 3: that she got, about how you know, was she ever

449
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 3: going to get a job as a nanny again? I mean,

450
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 3: I should hope not. And you know, was she going

451
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 3: to make some money from some type of movie deal maybe?

452
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 3: And how long it took them to get her to

453
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 3: cooperate and you know, by the way, you know that

454
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 3: they intentionally arrested her first and put so much pressure

455
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 3: on her for months and months to get her to flip.

456
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 3: But I do agree with them that their case needed

457
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 3: her testimony to pull absolutely absolutely to wrap it all up.

458
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 2: They did well. Alison Treesa, once again, you were right, Hey,

459
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: we were wrong.

460
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 3: Hey something. There are times where I say, oh, the

461
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 3: jury's not going to convict, and they're out for an

462
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 3: hour and they convict. I mean, I had a case

463
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 3: where it was I live in Los Angeles, it was

464
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 3: in Orange County and the jury went back to deliberate

465
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 3: and I promise you I hadn't even gotten on the

466
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 3: freeway yet, and they came back with a verdict. So

467
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 3: you know, as a defense attorney, you lose more than

468
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 3: you win. So I think that when I when I

469
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 3: watch a case like this, I understand what a small

470
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 3: percentage of cases go to trial, why they go to trial,

471
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 3: and what usually the outcome is.

472
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 4: We love chopping it up with you. We try to

473
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 4: avoid texting seriously because we have so many questions come

474
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 4: up that we're arguing about it. And said, man, if

475
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 4: we had an attorney we could talk to, she's probably

476
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 4: in the middle of the case.

477
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,719
Speaker 3: You know there's a burning question, ask me why not.

478
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 4: Well, they're all burning questions to us, but they're not

479
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 4: worth interrupting your work. But we just do that to

480
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 4: say thank you and we love you and we trust

481
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 4: you with your words. So thank you for spending time.

482
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 4: We know we're going to see you plenty because there's

483
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 4: plenty more trials to go around, so.

484
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 3: You know, there's always there's always a good trial somewhere.

485
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: Alis.

486
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 4: It's so good to see you as always. Thank you

487
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 4: for guiding us be well, I see you