WEBVTT - Trump and Muller Teams Nearing Terms for Interview

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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<v Speaker 1>day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

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<v Speaker 1>important legal news of the day. You can find more

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<v Speaker 1>episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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<v Speaker 1>and on Bloomberg dot com Slash Podcasts. As former Trump

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<v Speaker 1>campaign chairman Paul maniforts tax and bank fraud trial continues

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<v Speaker 1>in Virginia, President Trump has lashed out at Special counsel

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<v Speaker 1>Robert Mueller on Twitter, telling Attorney General Jeff Sessions to

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<v Speaker 1>end Mueller's investigation. Yesterday, White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders

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<v Speaker 1>said the president's tweet was not a directive the president

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<v Speaker 1>stating his opinion, um, it's not in order, but he's

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<v Speaker 1>been I think crystal clear about how he feels about

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<v Speaker 1>this investigation from the beginning. Joining us as Bloomberg in

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<v Speaker 1>the Bloomberg studios in Washington. It's Kevin Whitelaw, Bloomberg News

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<v Speaker 1>Deputy Managing editor, Kevin how how is that playing Sarah

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<v Speaker 1>sanders explanation and Rudy Giuliani's explanation of why President Trump's

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<v Speaker 1>tweet was not an order. Well, I do think that

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<v Speaker 1>we've seen, we've seen the president at various points, at

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<v Speaker 1>various times, rail against his own attorney general, rail against

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<v Speaker 1>the probe, rail against Robert Muller, and so on some level,

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<v Speaker 1>you can just sort of see this as part of

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<v Speaker 1>the continuum. But but this one did strike a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people as a little different. It started to sound

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<v Speaker 1>a little closer to an order, a little closer to

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<v Speaker 1>a uh something beyond a recommendation, but maybe not quite

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<v Speaker 1>an order. So um, you know, everyone's always looking for

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<v Speaker 1>sort of where the where the temperature is and has

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<v Speaker 1>something shifted in the air when it comes to what

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<v Speaker 1>Trump might actually do with regard to the probe. Up

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<v Speaker 1>to now, his lawyers have been able to largely keep

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<v Speaker 1>him on track and keep him cooperating, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the frustration level has clearly been building um over time,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's got a lot of people both inside the

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<v Speaker 1>White House but also outside the White House sort of

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<v Speaker 1>egging him on and and wanting him to pick a fight.

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<v Speaker 1>And this isn't like, you know, your neighbor expressing an

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<v Speaker 1>opinion his president United States, and that's right, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>he also does know how to issue orders, and and

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that you know, he tweeted it is a

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<v Speaker 1>little different than an actual order. So, um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>whether we whether he's actually testing the waters or blowing

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<v Speaker 1>out steam, or or preparing to do something, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I think we're we've all been trying to figure that out.

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<v Speaker 1>But we've sort of been on on watch for this

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<v Speaker 1>for quite a long time, and at least it hasn't

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<v Speaker 1>happened yet. I do know he's gotten very very strong

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<v Speaker 1>warnings for the past year from a lot of center Republicans.

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<v Speaker 1>They don't want him to act against Mueller. Um, they

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<v Speaker 1>don't want him to act against Rosenstein, and they really

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<v Speaker 1>don't want it to happen before the mid term. So

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<v Speaker 1>all of those things are still true, and he's still

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<v Speaker 1>getting that message. But but you know, he's he's he's

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<v Speaker 1>you know, clearly uh frustrated by by the pace of this.

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<v Speaker 1>It is import though, to understand even amid all of

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<v Speaker 1>this noise and all of these attacks and all of

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<v Speaker 1>the vitriol and all of the accusations, his lawyers and

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<v Speaker 1>Mueller's team have still been talking and negotiating, exchanging proposals

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<v Speaker 1>over what it might look like for the for the

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<v Speaker 1>president to sit down and do an interview with with

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<v Speaker 1>Robert Mueller's so UM there was just as recently as

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<v Speaker 1>earlier this week. We know that Mueller's people came back

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<v Speaker 1>with with with their latest proposal UH answering an earlier

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<v Speaker 1>one from from Trump from about eleven days ago. So

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<v Speaker 1>this is this. Even though they're not close, even though

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<v Speaker 1>it's not clear they'll ever get to a deal, they're

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<v Speaker 1>actually still talking despite all this noise. I can't imagine

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<v Speaker 1>any lawyer encouraging Trump, with his many conflicting statements, to

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<v Speaker 1>sit down for an interview. But there are persistent reports

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<v Speaker 1>that he wants to do it, and that's right. The

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<v Speaker 1>belief is he wants to do it. He wants to

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<v Speaker 1>show that he can do it. He certainly believes he

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<v Speaker 1>can handle it. He thinks he's he thinks he's good

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<v Speaker 1>in these situations. He has had an umber of lawyers

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<v Speaker 1>UM including some who have since left his team, who

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<v Speaker 1>have been very strongly opposed to it. We know that

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<v Speaker 1>John Dowd, who was his personal attorney um UH until

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<v Speaker 1>the spring and been deeply involved in a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>the early prep work and a lot of the early

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<v Speaker 1>cooperation with Miller's team, was adamantly opposed to the notion

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<v Speaker 1>of an interview. So, uh, you know, I think there's uh,

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<v Speaker 1>he's he's got his lawyers are there are definitely on

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<v Speaker 1>the cautious side. They're going to be trying to if

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<v Speaker 1>they end up allowing it, make it absolutely as limited

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<v Speaker 1>in scope and limited in questions as possible. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I do think they understand there are some risks to

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<v Speaker 1>simply refusing to sit for an interview at all, but

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<v Speaker 1>they certainly can drag out the process, and and to

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<v Speaker 1>the degree they drag it out into into the fall,

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<v Speaker 1>it becomes difficult potentially to conduct that interview with the

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<v Speaker 1>mid terms, uh, and and avoid accusations of it being

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<v Speaker 1>a political act. And Kevin Wild we've been speaking of

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<v Speaker 1>the president's national security advisor, John Bolton has been speaking

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<v Speaker 1>and these headlines just hitting the Bloomberg Riminal in the

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<v Speaker 1>last few seconds. Bolton says Trump determined to prevent election

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<v Speaker 1>influence and that the president has been confronting the Russians

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<v Speaker 1>to stop meddling. This in the wake of the news

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<v Speaker 1>from Facebook that it had shut down some questionable feeds

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<v Speaker 1>and and uh and pages. Yeah, this comes from a

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<v Speaker 1>letter that Bolton sent to uh answer Senate Democrats about

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<v Speaker 1>their complaints that that the administration wasn't doing anything to

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<v Speaker 1>to take a wasn't taking the election security issues seriously enough.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is uh uh, the latest defense of Bolton

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<v Speaker 1>saying that actually, there's a bunch of steps we have taken.

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<v Speaker 1>We're taking it seriously. Um. It is one of these

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<v Speaker 1>interesting things where a number of different people in the

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<v Speaker 1>administration um, including the intelligence National Intelligence Director Dan Coates,

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<v Speaker 1>have all issued very strong warnings about Russia and what

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<v Speaker 1>it might do, but the President himself has has has

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<v Speaker 1>you know, rarely been very rarely been as outspoken and

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<v Speaker 1>critical in this issue, and it does seem that he's

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<v Speaker 1>had a little trouble separating the notion of accusations and

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<v Speaker 1>and and conclusions about Russian meddling from from any sense

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<v Speaker 1>that his own electoral victory might somehow be called into

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<v Speaker 1>question by acknowledging this. Kevin, we just have a minute here,

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<v Speaker 1>But what might set off another tweet storm is that

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<v Speaker 1>a bipartisan group of senators are introducing legislation to impose

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<v Speaker 1>new sanctions on Russia for interfering in US elections. In

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<v Speaker 1>about forty five seconds, tell us about that. Well, that's right,

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<v Speaker 1>it's an interesting group of senators you have Lindsay Graham, UM,

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<v Speaker 1>who you know, for the most time, for the most part,

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<v Speaker 1>tries to be allied with Trump. UM has has paired

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<v Speaker 1>up with John McCain, who's who's back home and ill

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<v Speaker 1>and Corey Gardner of Colorado, UH and several Democrats to

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<v Speaker 1>put in this measure of sanctions. UM. Obviously we're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about something that that is still you know, months away,

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<v Speaker 1>if ever, from from being enacted the houses out for

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<v Speaker 1>for the summer. UM. But it is a clear signal,

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<v Speaker 1>at least in the part of Republicans in Congress, that

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<v Speaker 1>they want this administration to take the issue of Russian

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<v Speaker 1>Russian medaling much more. All right, thanks so much, Kevin.

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<v Speaker 1>That's Kevin Whitelaw, Bloomberg News Deputy managing editor. Yesterday, the

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<v Speaker 1>Trump administration announced that it would boost short term health

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<v Speaker 1>plans as the White House continues to expand alternatives to Obamacare.

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<v Speaker 1>Speaking with Bloomberg yesterday, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex

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<v Speaker 1>asar discussed the plans, which have a history of consumer complaints.

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<v Speaker 1>These plans are likely going to be most attractive to

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<v Speaker 1>those kinds of people that I mentioned, who are in transition,

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<v Speaker 1>who don't have access to affordable care who've been priced

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<v Speaker 1>out of the Obamacare markets. That's really where the where

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<v Speaker 1>the population is going to come through going into these plans.

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<v Speaker 1>Joining us in our Bloomberg eleven thirties studios in New

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<v Speaker 1>York is Zach Tracer, Bloomberg News healthcare reporter, so Zach,

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<v Speaker 1>these plans were originally intended for people who needed insurance

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<v Speaker 1>between jobs. Tell us about them, that's right. So these

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<v Speaker 1>are these are plans that um sort of emerges away.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, if you have a month or two without

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<v Speaker 1>health insurance, maybe, um, you can buy some coverage that

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<v Speaker 1>will protect you in case, you know, you get hit

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<v Speaker 1>by a bus or something, or you know, get sick. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>And what the Trump administration is doing here is really

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<v Speaker 1>crafting a bigger role for these plans. Um you'd be

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<v Speaker 1>allowed to have this coverage for up to a year,

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<v Speaker 1>and you could potentially renew it so that it would

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<v Speaker 1>last for up to three years. UM. So all of

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<v Speaker 1>a sudden, you've gone from these short term plans with

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<v Speaker 1>you know, essentially a three month duration to up to

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<v Speaker 1>three years. Quite a quite a big change. So these

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<v Speaker 1>plans are cheaper, but as you write in your story

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<v Speaker 1>on the terminal they have a long history of patient complaints.

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<v Speaker 1>What are they? That's right? So these plans have a

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<v Speaker 1>couple big issues. One is that they won't cover pre

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<v Speaker 1>existing conditions. And now that sounds okay. So you're going

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<v Speaker 1>and you're buying this plan and you say, okay, I

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<v Speaker 1>know that you know I have these conditions that it

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<v Speaker 1>won't cover. Here's the problem with these plans UM. If you,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, all of a sudden it turns out you

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<v Speaker 1>have cancer or something, what the insurer is going to

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<v Speaker 1>do is they're going to look back at your medical

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<v Speaker 1>history and say, did you have this cancer before you

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<v Speaker 1>bought the insurance, even if you didn't know about it,

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<v Speaker 1>And in some cases that will be enough to UM

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<v Speaker 1>to make it so that your cancer care isn't covered.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's a sort of a big loophole here. And

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<v Speaker 1>in some states you can't even buy these plans. Why

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<v Speaker 1>have those states decided that these plans are not good enough?

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. So in UM, in New York, New Jersey,

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<v Speaker 1>and Massachusetts, you can't really buy this kind of insurance

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<v Speaker 1>at all. UM. Other states have their own limits, and

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of states are actually looking now at sort

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<v Speaker 1>of what their approach to regulating this insurance should be.

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<v Speaker 1>There's you know, for instance, and effort to ban these

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<v Speaker 1>plans in California, and the argument is essentially, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>number one, we don't think this coverage is very good

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<v Speaker 1>for people, and number two, it's sort of pulls you know,

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<v Speaker 1>generally healthier people out of the insurance pools um and

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<v Speaker 1>you know that sort of undermines how insurance works. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>when you have a good functioning insurance market, you need

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<v Speaker 1>lots of healthy people in there, you know, to essentially

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<v Speaker 1>cover the cost for the few sick people that you have.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, as those healthy people leave, the cost

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<v Speaker 1>for every else just goes up. And that's a problem

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<v Speaker 1>in state's like you know, California are looking at this

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<v Speaker 1>market now saying what should we do about it? But

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<v Speaker 1>you're not writing that the administration is trying to oversell

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<v Speaker 1>these because Secretary as Are actually said in his interview

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<v Speaker 1>with US yesterday, they may not be right for everybody.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right, And I think the administration sort of goes

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<v Speaker 1>back and forth and how they want to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>these plans. So Secretary is Are, i think has been

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<v Speaker 1>pretty clear in saying, you know, these plans aren't right

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<v Speaker 1>for everybody. UM. You know, they're they're an alternative for

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<v Speaker 1>you know, some folks who have been priced out of

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<v Speaker 1>the affordable carreacts markets. You know, people that make a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit catastrophic. Yeah, exactly that that these plans are

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<v Speaker 1>sort of catastrophic. UM in some cases. UM, Obamacare has

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<v Speaker 1>turned out to be pretty resilient. What are some of

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<v Speaker 1>the other things that have been done to sort of

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<v Speaker 1>try to weaken Obamacare. So this is just the latest

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<v Speaker 1>in a string of regulatory actions and UM, congressional actions

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<v Speaker 1>that we've seen over the last year or so that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, essentially have the effect of we can the

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<v Speaker 1>Affordable Care Act. So we saw the requirement that everybody

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<v Speaker 1>by insurance, the individual mandate UM that was repealed in

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<v Speaker 1>the tax cut law. UM. We've seen the administration also

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<v Speaker 1>allows something called association health plans, which are UM sort

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<v Speaker 1>of small business health plans UM, similar to to the

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<v Speaker 1>stuff that we're talking about right here. UM. And we've

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<v Speaker 1>seen them cut a lot of money from sort of

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<v Speaker 1>marketing and outreach. So, you know, one of the important

0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.320
<v Speaker 1>things that we talked about with insurance is that everybody

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<v Speaker 1>buys it. In the administration has really pulled back on

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<v Speaker 1>some of these efforts to you know, convince people to

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<v Speaker 1>do so advertising marketing and also you know, help signing up. So,

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<v Speaker 1>when the healthcare exchanges open up for enrollment this fall,

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<v Speaker 1>will these short term plans be an option? Will these

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<v Speaker 1>business business association plans be an option in there? Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>So both both of these kinds of plans will be

0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:53.880
<v Speaker 1>available around sort of September, October November. Around that timeframe.

0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:56.400
<v Speaker 1>They won't be on you know, healthcare dot gov, which

0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.080
<v Speaker 1>is where you go to buy affordable character insurance. They

0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.200
<v Speaker 1>won't be available sort of next to these affordable carrot plans.

0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.680
<v Speaker 1>They'll be available you know, separately, you know, from brokers

0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.600
<v Speaker 1>and associations and things like that, but they will be available,

0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, starting right around the same time. So Senate

0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:12.440
<v Speaker 1>Democrats say they're going to try to force a vote

0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:16.520
<v Speaker 1>that would reverse the Trump policy to expand access to

0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:20.640
<v Speaker 1>these plans that don't comply with the Obamacare's coverage requirements.

0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.240
<v Speaker 1>So what do you think do you think that will

0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.800
<v Speaker 1>get very far? That's right? So Senate Democrats today announced

0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:30.720
<v Speaker 1>the plan to um put up a resolution essentially disapproving

0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.480
<v Speaker 1>of this administrative action UM. And so what that would

0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.320
<v Speaker 1>do is is basically put lawmakers on the record as

0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.080
<v Speaker 1>to whether or not they support UM. This move by

0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.800
<v Speaker 1>the administration and what Democrats are hoping to do is

0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.040
<v Speaker 1>make healthcare a big issue in this election. It's been

0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.160
<v Speaker 1>a really a winning message UM for Democrats going into

0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:50.360
<v Speaker 1>the you know, November midterms, and they would love to

0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:52.959
<v Speaker 1>just kind of keep um, you know, emphasizing that they

0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.040
<v Speaker 1>are protecting you, um, you know, from all this stuff

0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:58.559
<v Speaker 1>that the Republicans are trying to do. It's a great article,

0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:00.720
<v Speaker 1>and you spoke to a lot of people who have

0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:04.120
<v Speaker 1>had problems with these plans, and a Georgetown professor said

0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:08.080
<v Speaker 1>it's a buyer beware situation. Thanks so much for being here, Zach.

0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:12.200
<v Speaker 1>That's Zach Tracer. He's Bloomberg News healthcare reporter. Thanks for

0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.520
<v Speaker 1>listening to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can subscribe and

0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:18.840
<v Speaker 1>listen to the show on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and on

0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:23.640
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I'm June Brosso. This is

0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:24.280
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg