1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: On this episode of news World, I want to spend 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: some time talking about the extraordinary difficulty the democracies have 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: dealing with evil and the degree to which Putin clearly 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: can be characterized as evil. I wanted to take time 5 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: to talk today about what I think is a very 6 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: disturbing but in many ways historically normal process, and that 7 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: is the difficulty that free societies and democracies have in 8 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: identifying and confronting evil. It's not a new thing, but 9 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: as I've watched Putin, I've thought a lot about what 10 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: we have tolerated from this guy. He sends his agents 11 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 1: to London to kill an anti Putin Russian and does 12 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: so deliberately using a radioactive poison which is only made 13 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: in Russia, just to make sure all of us get 14 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: that this was done by the Russians. He most recently, 15 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 1: about a year ago, tried to kill another guy who 16 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: survived it, but he and his daughter were both very 17 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: sick from the effort to poison them. In Britain, it's 18 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: the guy who has gone out of his way to 19 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: make sure that journalists and investigators were killed. He has 20 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: proven in his attack on Georgia, followed by his annihilation 21 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: of the city of Grosni and Cheshnia, followed by his 22 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: use of mass terror weapons, including chemical weapons in Syria, 23 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: and now the way he's campaigning in Ukraine. That he 24 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: knows no bounds and that the civilized world as we 25 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: would like to call ourselves hasn't had the courage to 26 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: confront him and establish bounds. So we've watched war crime 27 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: after war crime after a war crime and done nothing, 28 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: and with each ineffective effort he's grown stronger. There is 29 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: a sad, grim joke that Viktor Pinschuk, the oligarch from 30 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: Ukraine who has been a deep, deep advocate of democracy 31 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: and freedom, wrote about in the Wall Street Journal, where 32 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: he said the Europeans are in danger of running out 33 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: of blue and white paint because they're painting everything symbolically 34 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: in favor of Ukraine. And he said it's a tragic 35 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: joke Ukrainians tell each other because what they want our aircraft, 36 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: surfaced air missiles, anti tank missiles are chillery, things that 37 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: are practical and real in a war, and what they're 38 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: getting are psychological moments of sympathy, which is not what 39 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: they want at all. This has been compounded by the 40 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: United States, which was once upon a time a truly 41 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: heroic country, a country prepared to take on evil, and 42 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: a country prepared to run great risk for freedom, and 43 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: which has become pathetically incompetent on a scale that I 44 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: personally would not have dreamed possible. And I'll talk about 45 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: that a little bit, But let me talk about this 46 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: general problem, because this is not a new problem. We 47 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: saw the nineteen thirties that the democracies simply couldn't bring 48 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: themselves to confront and stop the fascist powers, particularly Italy 49 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: and Germany, all through the mid and late thirties as 50 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: they rose in prominence. So the Italians waged war in 51 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: what was called Abyssinia now Ethiopia, and the Germans and 52 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: the Italians sided with the fascist in Italy against the 53 00:03:55,240 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: Republican government and a long, bitter, vicious civil war. The democracies, 54 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: particularly France and Britain, were incompetent, timid, cautious. When Hitler 55 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: militarized the Rhineland in nineteen thirty five, which was a 56 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: violation of the Versailles Treaty, the Allies did nothing. Now, technically, 57 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: at that point there was a huge French army, there 58 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: was a substantial British military, the Germans had a very 59 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: very weak force in nineteen thirty five. They could have 60 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: crushed Hitler, and they did nothing when they had Anschluss 61 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: and Austria became part of Germany. They did nothing when 62 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: it was quite clear that they were re establishing an 63 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: air force, which was a violation of the Versailles Treaty. 64 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: The democracies did nothing when Hitler then made his demands 65 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: on Czechoslovakia. The British and French went to Munich to 66 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: offer him concessions, and they kept thinking, somehow he will 67 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: be reasonable, somehow we can appease him. And it's important 68 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: to remember appeasement in the nineteen thirties was not a 69 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: negative term. It was an effort to find what it 70 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: would take to allow Germany to re enter a system 71 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: where there was a general agreement that the Versailles Treaty 72 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: was too harsh, had punished the Germans too much, and 73 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: there was sort of a sympathy for the German point 74 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: of view. This was also a Europe which was in 75 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: a state of shock because when Lenin and his revolution 76 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: took over in Russia, the whole threat, the specter of 77 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: communism sweeping over all of Western Europe was very real, 78 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: and so the establishments in all of these countries were 79 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: less afraid of Hitler than they were of Stalin. They 80 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: were less afraid of Nazism and fascism than they were 81 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: of Communism, and they were very divided in what they 82 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: should do and how they should do it. The result 83 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: was that when the democracies had massive, overwhelming power, they 84 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: lacked the psychological courage to do anything. And by the 85 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: time they had no choice, the Germans had grown stronger, 86 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 1: and the German Italian combination was enough that there was 87 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: a series of stunning victories by Germany which literally came 88 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: close to dominating Europe permanently. The one person in Britain 89 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: who understood all this was Churchill, and that was for 90 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: I think two very different reasons. The first was the 91 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: Churchill had actually read Mind compf which is the book 92 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: Hitler wrote while he was in jail in nineteen twenty 93 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: four after an attempt at coup in Munich. And Hitler 94 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: is quite clear about who he is. He's nuts, he 95 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: wants to dominate all of Europe, he wants living space 96 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: Laban's realm for the German people, and the way he's 97 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 1: going to get Laban's realm is he's going to occupy Ukraine, 98 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: Poland Russia. He needs oil, and the way he's going 99 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: to get oils, he's going to take it from Romania, 100 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: and then he's going to drive to the Caucasus and 101 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: take the Russian oil fields. And in the process he 102 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: intends to wipe out the Jews and people who are 103 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: born with disabilities. And people tend to forget that the 104 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: earliest phase of the Nazi process of eliminating people actually 105 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: began with children with Down syndrome and children with birth defects, 106 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: and that this was a very clear, deliberate strategy, tragically 107 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: process of improving the species by eliminating people with disabilities, 108 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: which had actually in the West had substantial intellectual support 109 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: as a way of scientifically. This is why I always 110 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: have to worry when the Left says science, you have 111 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: to sort of worry about what's coming next, because this 112 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: was the scientific theory of the nineteen twenties, and that context, 113 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: Churchill understood that Hitler was evil by any reasonable standard. 114 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: There was a second factor. Churchill's the last great Victorian statesman. 115 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: He was old enough, he was deeply embedded in his 116 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: father's career and his father had been the number two 117 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: leader of the Chests of the Exchequer in the eighteen eighties. 118 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: And so Churchill, who served in the army in India 119 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: and in Egypt and in Sudan, and then served as 120 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: a reporter covering the war in South Africa with the Boars. 121 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: Churchill really was in many ways a throwback. He was 122 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: a gressy, pugnacious, courageous, willing to fight well. All of 123 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: his contemporaries were exhausted. World War One had killed so 124 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: many young British Men that there was just a general 125 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: horror at the idea of another war. The French had 126 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: a very deep pattern of people who really want to 127 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: do almost anything to avoid fighting. The Oxford Union, the 128 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: Young Students Debating League, had actually voted by a substantial 129 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: majority in the early nineteen thirties they would not fight 130 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: REMI repeat, not fight for King and country. Most of them, 131 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: of course, in the end joined the Royal Air Force 132 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: and did fight. But at the moment that was the mood. 133 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: And so in a very real sense Stanley Baldwin and 134 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: then Neville Chamberlain represented the attitude of the people. There 135 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: were two really good reasons. One was that they were exhausted, 136 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: and they were frightened, and they did not want another bloodletting. 137 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: And the other is that in a free society it 138 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: is extraordinarily hard to confront evil, because the very essence 139 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: of a free society is a belief in each other. 140 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: We can argue, we can talk, we can find a 141 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: way to have a compromise, we can get along, and 142 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: so it's really hard. When you have civil wars, you 143 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: begin to approach a level of distancing which makes it 144 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: possible to think about how bad people could be. But 145 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: as a general rule, in a free society, there's really 146 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: a very high premium on being positive and on not 147 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: thinking evil thoughts and not thinking your opponent is bad. 148 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: And so people say, well, surely we can be reasonable. Well, 149 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: we discovered the nineteen thirties that you couldn't be reasonable 150 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: with Hitler, you couldn't be reasonable with Mussolini, and ultimately 151 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: you couldn't be reasonable with the Imperial Japanese, and certainly 152 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: you couldn't be reasonable with Stalin. But that would come later, 153 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: because in the short run, Stalin was our ally and 154 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: therefore he was Uncle Joe, an attitude which disappeared sometime 155 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty five as the war ended, and we 156 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: suddenly remembered that Uncle Joe in fact, was a deeply 157 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: committed Communist dictator who had killed tens of millions of people. 158 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: The Cold War was in a remarkable achievement, in part 159 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: because we were able to sustain a belief that the 160 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: Soviet Union was dangerous and a belief that Communism was dangerous, 161 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: which in a free society's very hard because it meant 162 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: that people had to go out of their way, whether 163 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: they volunteered to serve in the military, they paid higher taxes, 164 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 1: they accepted restrictions on their freedom. People had to sustain 165 00:10:55,559 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: what was in effect a diplomatic, military, economic competition that 166 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: was extraordinary, and it lasted from basically nineteen forty five 167 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,719 Speaker 1: to the collapse of the Soviet Union in nineteen ninety one, 168 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: and then we sort of went on vacation. With the 169 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: dominant country in the world. Nobody could stand up to us, 170 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: and for about a twenty year period we didn't worry 171 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,119 Speaker 1: much about the world. That was the problem for Washington, 172 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: not for the average American. And then gradually slowly the 173 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: rise of China and the rise of Putin has forced 174 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 1: us to realize that recess is over, that the great 175 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: happy period of not thinking is done, and now we 176 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: have to go back to dealing with a world in 177 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: which there are genuine dangers and genuine evil. And, by 178 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: the way, at least in my mind, this problem of 179 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: evil exists as much at home as abroad. When a 180 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: man knife s to people at a museum of art 181 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: in New York, there's something wrong. When a serial killer 182 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: goes around shooting five or six homeless people, there's something 183 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,239 Speaker 1: foundly wrong. When a man who has been arrested seventeen 184 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: times and released kills a twenty four year old student 185 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 1: while she's working in a store in Los Angeles, there's 186 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: something wrong. And it's our inability to deal with evil 187 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: at home, to deal with evil in terms of terrorism, 188 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: or to deal with evil in terms of organized leaders 189 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: like Putin. That makes it very, very dangerous for democracies, 190 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: because if you allow evil to grow, if you allow 191 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: it to become acceptable behavior, the world becomes very harsh 192 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: and very dangerous. We're seeing it at home with crime 193 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: right now. We're seeing it at home with tolerating fentanyl, 194 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: which is killing people, literally killing people who We're seeing 195 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: it in the way in which we deal with China 196 00:12:43,960 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: and Russia, And so let me focus in on Pouting, 197 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: because he is the current example. Jijianping and the Chinese 198 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: Communist Party is in the long run of greater danger, 199 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: a more powerful competitor, and a country we are going 200 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: to have no choice except to deal with and to 201 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: think through and to successfully compete with. But in the 202 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: short run, because Russia does have six thousand nuclear weapons, 203 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: even though it has a very weak economy, even though 204 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: it has a dictatorial government based on basically a kleptocracy 205 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: of just stealing. Even though in a genuinely free election, 206 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: Putin would have a very hard time winning. He's not 207 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: going to have a genuinely free election. And he has 208 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 1: a secret police that's very competent. He was himself a 209 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: member of the secret police. And one of the things 210 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: you have to worry about in Ukraine is that Putin 211 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: served in East Germany at the very high peak of 212 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: the Soviet Empire. He knows how to create a satellite state. 213 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: He knows how to take over a country and how 214 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: to organize its police force to ensure that it does 215 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: what it was. So now you have the case of Putin, 216 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: a genuine case study in somebody who by any reasonable 217 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: standard as evil. And when I say evil, I mean 218 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: he bombs of maternity hospital as a deliberate act of terror. 219 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: And this is literally what happened, I think in Ukraine 220 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: is that they made an enormous mistake in Moscow. They 221 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: assumed that the Ukrainian people were timid and ineffective, and 222 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: they assumed that the Ukrainians would collapse. So General Millie 223 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: that you of the joint chiefs, said that the Russians 224 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: would be in Cavn three days, and I think that 225 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: Putin probably believed he was going to be in Cavn 226 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: three days. Well, both Millie and Putin were wrong, and 227 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: the reason they were wrong was because of the Ukrainian 228 00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: people who decided to fight. And something had happened the 229 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: time that Russia seized Crimea and seized the eastern region 230 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: around Dawnbas and that is in the ensuing period of warfare. 231 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: What happened over the last eight years is people who 232 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: used to be pro Russian became Ukrainian. So they suddenly found, 233 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: I suspect, to their great shock that even in the 234 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: most Russian ethnic parts of Ukraine, nobody wanted Putin. They 235 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: had now decided they'd given a choice between his dictatorship 236 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: and the quality of life at Moscow and what was 237 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: happening in Ukraine, which, for all of its corruption and 238 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: all of its difficulties, was an open society where people 239 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: were able to deal with the West, where they had tourism, 240 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: where they had investments, where they begin to get real 241 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: economic growth, And as they were forced to choose, they 242 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: just steadily became Ukrainian. So, in a very bizarre way, 243 00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: Putin's aggressiveness has actually created a Ukrainian nationalism which is 244 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: much greater than you could have imagined. So he was 245 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: faced with the reality after about five or six days 246 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: that he could not win militarily. And I think this 247 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: is a very important thing for people to understand, even 248 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: with the Biden administration having twice blocked sending weapons before 249 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: the war, even with the West being confused and chaotic 250 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: and ranging from small countries who were desperately getting weapons 251 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: in for a practical reason, if you're Estonia or Sweden, 252 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: or you're a Latvia or Lithuania, you know you could 253 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: be next. And so you want to stop Putin in 254 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: Ukraine as a matter of your own survival as a country, 255 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: and so lots of places are shipping something, and the 256 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: Ukrainians suddenly found themselves. You may have seen the famous 257 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: video of the tank column, where all of a sudden, 258 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: off from one side comes a missile and a tank 259 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: blows up, and then comes another missile, and another tank 260 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: blows up, and there are suddenly Russian tankers getting out 261 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: of their tanks because they're caught in this column. They 262 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: can't get off the road and their tank could be next. 263 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: This is the sort of thing which has kept that huge, 264 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,959 Speaker 1: massive column blocked north of Kiev. The logistics have been terrible. 265 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: They apparently came to Ukraine with like three days of food. 266 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 1: They have not been able to refuel subtrucks and tanks, 267 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: and they've not been able to coordinate complex, large operations, 268 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: and so the Russian military has been an enormous disappointment. Well, 269 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: Putin's reaction wasn't a say, og, I guess we can't 270 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: do this. His reaction was to say, look, if I 271 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: can't beat you militarily, I'm going to shift to terror. 272 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 1: And so what we have watched for two weeks with 273 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: frankly a level of passivity that is disgusting and that 274 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: sickens me is we have watched a deliberate terror campaign, 275 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: a terror campaign worthy of the Nazis, bombing warsaw worthy 276 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: of the kind of things that we saw in Spain 277 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: during the Civil War. There there's still question what he's doing, 278 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: and that means that he is bombing maternity hospitals. The 279 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: picture of the pregnant woman being carried out and later 280 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: the fact that she and her baby both died is 281 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: as good as symbol as you need of the cost 282 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: of evil, and unfortunately evil is defeated by superior force. 283 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: What defeated Hitler was a collection of Allied armies that 284 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: simply overwhelmed the Germans. What will automately stop Putin is 285 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: a willingness of brave people to stand up to him 286 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: and to be equipped with weapons. It frankly sort of 287 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: drives me crazy to watch Western politicians dither and gather. 288 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: So currently there's this conversation that says, well, we really 289 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: shouldn't send them the mid twenty ninths they want, because we, 290 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: who are not there dying, have decided in our infinite 291 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: wisdom that we know better than the Ukrainians what they need, 292 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 1: and what they need is surface to air missiles. Now 293 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: I'm all four surfaced air missiles, and my answer would 294 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: be fine, ship them both, but do something. Don't just 295 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: talk every day that the Western politicians, and in particular 296 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: the most powerful, the most capable Western politicians, meaning the 297 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: United States, every day that we spend talking is a 298 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: day when Ukrainians are dying. Now, there should be something 299 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: there that just humbles us and that makes us feel 300 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: that cuts through the Bolognian do something. And yet what 301 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: we get is a White House that is totally incompetent, 302 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: a State department that seems to be totally ineffective, and 303 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: a defense department that seems to be totally clueless. And 304 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: so what you have happening is, you know, countries like 305 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: Estonia are more effective at getting weapons to Ukraine than 306 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: the United States. Now there's something just totally wrong about this. 307 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: And even among the Republicans you have all these arguments. 308 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: I have to say that see Graham comes closest to 309 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: Yetiot right when he just said send something, you know, 310 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 1: quit talking and send stuff. And frankly, if the Ukrainians 311 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: believe that mag twenty nines would raise their morale, give 312 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: them the meg twenty nines. This idea that some analysts 313 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: at the State Department or the Defense Department, sitting in comfort, 314 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: having driven in from Reston and on the way to 315 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 1: a nice dinner at Georgetown, has decided in their infinite 316 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: wisdom what Ukraine needs. There's something sick about that. I mean, 317 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: it just versions on pathos. And then, frankly, one of 318 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: the great lessons of this war should be never send 319 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: Kamala Harris anywhere in terms of humiliating and undermining the 320 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: prestige the United States. Her performance in Poland when she 321 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: had a joint press conference with the Polish president and 322 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: when she was asked about help for the Ukrainian refugees, 323 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: and she broke up laughing and said, a friend in 324 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: need is a friend indeed. And you thought to yourself, 325 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: is this woman just nuts? While the answer, of course 326 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: is yes. What you have here is the California Looney 327 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: Tunes who wasn't too big a danger in the Senate 328 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: because there are ninety nine other people to block her. 329 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: But as Vice President, the idea that they would send 330 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: her anywhere to say anything is just scary, frankly, any 331 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: of you who've heard her. But she was asked to 332 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: explain what's going on in the simplest terms, and she 333 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: said Ukraine is a small country in Europe next to 334 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: a big country, and the big country has attacked the 335 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: small country. And that's just wrong. I mean, you listen 336 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 1: to that and you think this is the vice president 337 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: of the most powerful nation in the world and she's 338 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: up against Putin. Now, this is like sending a tiny, 339 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: little baby bunny rabbit to take on a grisly bear. 340 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it's amazing how much courage Ukrainians have because 341 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: they would have caved, They could have given up, they 342 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: could have decided, you know, better red than dead, while 343 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: they could have said better to be Russian and have 344 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: Putin dominate us. But instead they said something which most 345 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: Americans for most of our history would have identified with, 346 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: that their country was worth fighting for, that they believed 347 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: deeply in their cause, and that they weren't going to 348 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: automatically collapse or automatically go away and do anything. Let 349 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: me go back to where I started. There isn't any 350 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: question about who Putins. He's an evil man. He's the 351 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: kind of man that the KGB loved. They were confident 352 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: he would torture and kill if he had to. They 353 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: were confident that he was brutal. They were confident that 354 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: he had contempt for his fellow human beings, and he's 355 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: proven it for twenty years, so the record is clear. 356 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: Anybody who could be surprised that he might use chemical weapons, 357 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: or surprised that he might deliberately involve terror campaigns against 358 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: buildings and hospitals, or surprised that he would take the 359 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: risk of attacking a nuclear reactor. You have to say, 360 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: where have you been for the last twenty years. What 361 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: did you miss in the campaign in Chechnia in the 362 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: late nineties, What did you miss in the last decade 363 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: in Syria? How could you possibly not know? This is 364 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: who putin? Is real question is who are we? And 365 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: historically democracies avoid that identity question as long as they can. 366 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 1: They focus on trivia as long as they can. They 367 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,360 Speaker 1: try to be quote reasonable as long as they can. 368 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: They hope that there's some way to get quote a 369 00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: negotiated agreement. They worry about being too provocative. Here's a 370 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: guy who is bombing eternity hospitals and the Biden administration 371 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: worries about provoking him. Now, there's something totally unbalanced about 372 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: this approach, and I think that it's important we understand 373 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: that when confronted with evil, the only solution is to 374 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: defeat it. Some people argue that we have to be 375 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: timid and cautious because there's a danger of World War three, 376 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: there's a danger of Putin using nuclear weapons. But here's 377 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: the problem with that. If you're going to say, as 378 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: President Biden has, oh, if you cross the NATO boundary, No, 379 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: that's real, and we would use the full power of 380 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: the United States, but we can't do anything effective in 381 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: Ukraine because it might lead to World War three and 382 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: to the use of nuclear weapons. What if Putin picks 383 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: one country Finland, which is not yet a member of 384 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 1: NATOBO wants to become one, or Estonia and says, if 385 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: you don't let me have my way, I'll use nuclear weapons. 386 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: Do we then say, well, okay, this one time, you 387 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: can get away with it, but next time will be tough, 388 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: or in fact, do we in the end always have 389 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: to cave in because he can always threaten to use 390 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: nuclear weapons, or he can threaten to use chemical weapons. 391 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 1: If tomorrow morning he hits Estonia, it hits the talon 392 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: the capitol with chemical weapons, what do we do? He said, 393 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: if you help the Ukrainians, I have the right to 394 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: hit you. Well, Estonians are helping Ukraine very openly, so 395 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: almost as an act of defiance. So then what do 396 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: you do. Do you say, well, we really can't help 397 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: Estonia that which, by the way, means the end of NATO. 398 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: Same thing happens to Taiwan and China. If Jiju and 399 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: Pink says, you know, we're going to invade Taiwan and 400 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: if you do anything to stop us, we'll use nuclear weapons, 401 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 1: do we then back down? The great problem here is 402 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: that the age of diplomatic deterrance is over and we 403 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: have to profoundly rethink how to defend ourselves. There's gonna 404 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: be many countries of nuclear weapons, because one of the 405 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,959 Speaker 1: lessons of this attack is if you don't have nuclear weapons, 406 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: you're not safe. So in the next twenty years you're 407 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: likely to see twenty or thirty countries get nuclear weapons. 408 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: They're not that expensive, they're going to be available in 409 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: the open market. Places like North Korea and Pakistan will 410 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: sell them, and so you're going to face this crisis 411 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 1: over and over and over. I think that the only 412 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 1: thing dictators respect his strength. And the general who said 413 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: the other day that we should move three divisions into 414 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: Eastern Europe right now, and we should move the accompanying 415 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: air power right now. So it's sitting there. My father 416 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: served in the American Army during the Cold Warp. As 417 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: a child, I grew up in places like Orleans, France 418 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: and Stuttgard, Germany. We were there with our families as 419 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: a trip wire. And it was important that the families 420 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,239 Speaker 1: were there because it basically said to the Soviets, you know, 421 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: you start killing American families and you're going to be 422 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: in a gigantic war. And the Soviets believed then, and 423 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: I think right now we have to one create a 424 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: real sense at the boundaries of NATO of our absolute commitment. 425 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: And given the weakness and the incompetence and the articklateness 426 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: of the Biden Harris team, they actually have to be 427 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: stronger than you would have to be if you had 428 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: normal levels of strength, because they have to convince people that, 429 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: despite their linguistic incompetence, we're really serious. I think the 430 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: idea of movie at least three divisions and the accompanying 431 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: airpower is probably about the right thing as a starting point. Second, 432 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: I think we have to say that putin. We are 433 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: going to do what we think is effective and helping 434 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: Ukraine win. And the fact that you picked this fight 435 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: doesn't mean we have to allow you to define the 436 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: terms of the fight. You have decided to use terror 437 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: weapons against innocent civilians, we are going to do whatever 438 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: it takes to help those innocent civilians win, and we're 439 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 1: not going to back down. And one step, for example, 440 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: is to simply block the so called forty thousand Syrians 441 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: that he's trying to recruit and say no, we're not 442 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: going to let the airplanes fly, We're not going to 443 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: let the ships float. You're not going to be able 444 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: to get people from Syria to Russia. I mean, just 445 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: look at a map. It's pretty easy to stop them 446 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: from getting from Syria to Russia. If we're not capable 447 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: of stopping Syrians who are being brought in specifically to 448 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: brutalize and terrorize, you're not bringing in the Syrians to 449 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: fight the Ukrainian army. You'll bring them into terrorized civilians. 450 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: And we want to just say flatly, now it's not 451 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: going to happen. And if you don't back down, we 452 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: have more than enough power in the Mediterranean to eliminate 453 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: every asset you have in the Mediterranean and eliminate you 454 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: as a power that they've worked for twenty years to 455 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: build in that part of the world. If we don't 456 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: have the courage to stand up, and therefore we say, well, 457 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: we really had no choice, does it stop which threat? 458 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: Do we finally say that's enough? And of course in 459 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: World War Two they didn't stop Hitler in nineteen thirty five, 460 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: thirty six, thirty seven, thirty eight, and then finally in 461 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: the fall of thirty nine they felt as he invaded 462 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: Poland they had no choice, and by then the world 463 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: had grown much worse. The Soviets had decided the West 464 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: was so weak they actually signed an agreement with Hitler, 465 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: and the war became much worse than a would have 466 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: at any point prior to that. What I fear most 467 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: is that at some point the Ukrainians, who are in 468 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: the middle of a terror campaign, will decide that the 469 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: world's not going to help them, that they have to 470 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: cut a deal, and that they will decide to basically 471 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: accept some kind of limited Ukrainian independence, and in that 472 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: process that Putin will survive. He will be strengthened at home, 473 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: He will actually be the winner. That will be a 474 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: tragedy for the world, and that would be a very, 475 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,479 Speaker 1: very dangerous world. So I think we have to have 476 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: a resolution that we are not only going to protect 477 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: and work with the Ukrainians, but we ultimately have as 478 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: a goal driving putin from power, so the world learns 479 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: you can't run campaigns of war crimes, you can't routinely 480 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: savage innocent people, you can't use terror weapons and expect 481 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: to survive. Anything short of that will make the world 482 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: dramatically more dangerous, and I think that is what we 483 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: have to learn from the current disaster. Thank you for listening. 484 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: NEWTS World is produced by Ginglis Street sixty and iHeartMedia. 485 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan, our producer is Rebecca Howe, 486 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the 487 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: show was created by Steve Bentley special thanks to the 488 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: team at Gingwish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, 489 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate 490 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: us with five stars and give us a review so 491 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners 492 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: of Newtsworld can sign up for my three free weekly 493 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: columns at gingwish three sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm 494 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: Newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.