Speaker 1: The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
Speaker 2: Cowboys Let's go. Are you ready for a break?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 4: Are you ready for a break?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 4: Ready for a break? Yeah, And so much for that.
Speaker 5: It's time for The Break on Dallas Cowboys dot Com.
Speaker 5: Were with Ambar Garcia, Brian brought us, Patrick Walker and
Speaker 5: Derek Eagleton.
Speaker 6: It is Wednesday, May twenty second, twenty twenty four, Season twenty,
Speaker 6: episode number eight.
Speaker 7: Welcome to the latest edition of.
Speaker 6: The Break, presented by LG. We were a live from
Speaker 6: the SWBC Mortgage studios at the starting today, we're gonna
Speaker 6: have a lot of different things we're going to talk about.
Speaker 6: We're into our position series. We are in a segment
Speaker 6: two of that. Last week we hit quarterback and that
Speaker 6: was the only position that we hit.
Speaker 7: Today we'll hit a few more. We're going to go
Speaker 7: over to the defensive side of the ball.
Speaker 6: Talk a little bit about the secondary safety position, the
Speaker 6: cornerback position, also the linebacker position, maybe if we can
Speaker 6: get to it, but we'll see how it goes today
Speaker 6: and see how far we get on our SWAT analysis
Speaker 6: of each of those positions.
Speaker 7: I want to.
Speaker 6: Start first though, OTAs, let's talk about it. Cowboys will
Speaker 6: be starting, Actually they start at the OTAs yesterday.
Speaker 7: It will run through this.
Speaker 6: Week and then again next week, and then they'll have
Speaker 6: their mini camp the week following, and then they'll have
Speaker 6: a little break as well. We so let's start with
Speaker 6: the OTAs. Tell me what are you watching?
Speaker 7: What are you looking for this week?
Speaker 6: As the Cowboys are getting started and have their full
Speaker 6: team on the field for the first time.
Speaker 8: I think, to me, where my experience of dealing with
Speaker 8: these before is that the rookie mini camp you kind
Speaker 8: of watch them getting stances and practice, getting into stance
Speaker 8: and learning where the practice field is and all that stuff.
Speaker 8: Now it's a little bit more and Mike McCarthy talked
Speaker 8: about a little bit about the pace of practice and
Speaker 8: things like that, and that's where I think that these
Speaker 8: rookies they're going to throw a lot at these guys initially,
Speaker 8: and then they're going to see who can sink, and
Speaker 8: who can swim, and who can sink a little bit,
Speaker 8: you know, and then they'll think, Okay, this is the
Speaker 8: way we're going to have to coach this kid. The
Speaker 8: veterans at a great advantage here. You know, and the
Speaker 8: rookies are just trying to like their heads are going
Speaker 8: to be spinning. And so what you're going to watch
Speaker 8: for is how many And he mentioned this they had
Speaker 8: some some pre snap stuff that they had to deal
Speaker 8: with that they'll clean up. But what you're going to
Speaker 8: watch is you're going to see where are they going
Speaker 8: to put these rookies in relation to the other veteran players.
Speaker 8: Are they running with the two's, are they running with
Speaker 8: the threes, or are they running with their own group?
Speaker 8: You know? And once it might be elevated a little.
Speaker 7: Bit, you say their own group of time about rookies, Yeah,
Speaker 7: the other.
Speaker 8: Yeah, like there's like the undrafted guys or the maybe
Speaker 8: the first year players or stuff like that. Maybe you
Speaker 8: know the players right now, maybe players you know, eighty
Speaker 8: three with eighty six or whatever they got on the ross.
Speaker 8: You know, the see they might be running with guys
Speaker 8: like that. And then as you see them progress, you
Speaker 8: might say, okay, now they move them up, they move
Speaker 8: them and every week you might see a guy move
Speaker 8: up every week that like, okay, we need to give
Speaker 8: this guy more. We're seeing more, or maybe guys will
Speaker 8: stay where they're at. So what you do is you
Speaker 8: find that you find that where are the bases where
Speaker 8: they're gonna start, and then how by the time we
Speaker 8: get to break that this where they've got these guys place,
Speaker 8: and that will give you an idea of what they're
Speaker 8: thinking about doing with these guys this summer when we
Speaker 8: get the Ox start.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean it's like mich McCarthy just said, they're
Speaker 9: going to have eight full installs, and you know OTA's
Speaker 9: are going to be more so targeted towards rookies. Like
Speaker 9: Brian said, veterans are going to come in and they
Speaker 9: have an upperhand obviously, But the goal for the Cowboys
Speaker 9: is to get all of the installs and all of
Speaker 9: the playbook information put in front of these rookies and
Speaker 9: have them to the point where once OTA's is over
Speaker 9: and once mini camp is concluded, that they have everything
Speaker 9: they need to go into training camp and try their
Speaker 9: best to hit the ground running. So that's the first
Speaker 9: part of it. Second part of it is, as Brian said,
Speaker 9: trying to see who's lining up and with what group, right,
Speaker 9: So take Cooper bb for example, or take Tyler Guitton
Speaker 9: for example. Although we believe they have an excellent chance
Speaker 9: of starting in their respective positions center and left tackle.
Speaker 9: Maybe that doesn't happen right out of the gate. Maybe
Speaker 9: it's brock Hoffman at you know, for the first team
Speaker 9: with the first team in Dak Prescott at center and Truemaydoga,
Speaker 9: whereas with the second team with Cooper Rush slash Trey Lance.
Speaker 9: Now you're looking at Cooper BB and Tyler Guy and
Speaker 9: looking at those guys, Nathan Thomas, the seventh round pick
Speaker 9: on the defensive side, justin Rodgers, where is he playing?
Speaker 9: Is he definitely nose tackle or are they trying to
Speaker 9: see if they can get something out of him at
Speaker 9: three take So it'll be interested in those positions as well,
Speaker 9: Kayln Carson. They're going to start him, I don't mean
Speaker 9: as a starter, but they're going to begin him on
Speaker 9: the outside. But also they want to see if he
Speaker 9: can do some flex in the nickel as well, So
Speaker 9: that'll be interesting. So that those are some things I'm
Speaker 9: really keeping Now.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I've said this before, I'll say it again. This
Speaker 10: is to me one of the most exciting parts of
Speaker 10: this time because this is when you finally see the root.
Speaker 10: He's merging with the veterans and you get to see
Speaker 10: the visual of it, what you actually are working with now,
Speaker 10: and how does that look, even though not everyone's necessarily
Speaker 10: gonna be where they're gonna end up being at the
Speaker 10: end of by the time the season starts, but you
Speaker 10: see everyone just merging together. And again, the Cowboys, they're
Speaker 10: really great at acclimating the players, I think that's the
Speaker 10: right word, just getting them to where you're not just
Speaker 10: throwing them in deep waters letting them drown or like swim,
Speaker 10: You're they're they're gonna be good at just letting them
Speaker 10: kind of get the system in, get the and they've
Speaker 10: been in meetings learning the books and the plays and
Speaker 10: the scheme and all of that already. But it's just
Speaker 10: for me right now because you're not gonna get a
Speaker 10: whole lot of action. That's like training camp.
Speaker 4: Whoa great.
Speaker 10: But yeah, it's more of the visual of like, Okay, okay,
Speaker 10: I can work with this, or maybe, ah, crap, this
Speaker 10: is not looking visually you know, this is the time
Speaker 10: to kind of start getting the first taste of that.
Speaker 8: Yeah. What they'll do though, too, is when this is
Speaker 8: all over with veterans and stuff, will go home or
Speaker 8: go to their wherever they stay for a little bit
Speaker 8: before drinking, and then the rooki yeah, and then the
Speaker 8: rookie stay and work.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 8: So anything that they might not pick up, and some
Speaker 8: coaches will stay around maybe and help some guys out
Speaker 8: if they're here or not. They'll take a break too.
Speaker 8: But you get him into that weight program, you get
Speaker 8: him a little bit more strong or a little bit
Speaker 8: more acclimate to the quickness of the game, the strength
Speaker 8: of the game. You get him built up. But you
Speaker 8: can also teach him some stuff too along the way.
Speaker 8: So anything that they might struggle with, you could circle
Speaker 8: back and say, Okay, we need to work with these
Speaker 8: guys on this particular thing. Like I remember with Michael Parsons,
Speaker 8: they threw him in the deep end of the pool.
Speaker 8: We talked about sink or swim, but they threw him in.
Speaker 8: There was a lot I remember dan Quinn was doing
Speaker 8: a lot of things with him right off the jump,
Speaker 8: and Mike had never seemed to bat an eye at that,
Speaker 8: you know. So you'll see guys that do that. And
Speaker 8: that's where I could say from there'll be a base
Speaker 8: level and then there'll be a final level that you'll
Speaker 8: see before they get the ox Star.
Speaker 9: And I'm also looking for you know, and talk about
Speaker 9: guys like Marshawn Neeland as well. You know, how quickly
Speaker 9: can he progress under a guy like Greg Ealli's former
Speaker 9: you know, Cowboys pro bowler, who's going to focus on
Speaker 9: the edge rushers While I'm trying to pronounce his.
Speaker 4: Last name, Please don't kill me? Is the Z silent?
Speaker 4: Is it Gonina?
Speaker 9: I believe the one we postina? There we go his demeanor.
Speaker 9: He's going to be focused more so on like the
Speaker 9: interior guys. So when Masi Smith is cleared, what does
Speaker 9: Goneina look like with coaching up Misi Smith?
Speaker 4: What does Greg Yllis look like coaching up marshaan Eland.
Speaker 9: But from an overall standpoint, I'm going to be looking
Speaker 9: to see what rookies specifically are seeking information versus those
Speaker 9: that are waiting to be given information. So I'm keeping
Speaker 9: eye on guys who are going up to coaches and
Speaker 9: assistant coaches and other players, Like is Marshan Nelan really
Speaker 9: gluing himself to Marcus Lawrence and staying in his hip
Speaker 9: pocket or is he just using as an example or
Speaker 9: is he waiting for a guy like greglas to come
Speaker 9: up and say, hey, this is where you can improve
Speaker 9: or is it a combination of the two. Those guys
Speaker 9: who tend to stip and stick to the hip pocket
Speaker 9: of guys like DeMarcus Lawrence or Kaylyn Carson with Deron
Speaker 9: Bland so Georgean Lewis, those are probably the rookies who
Speaker 9: want to progress more quickly than the ones that are
Speaker 9: kind of sitting back waiting to be told what to do.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: The one notable absence so far after yesterday and probably
Speaker 6: will be after the rest of the week Michael Parsons.
Speaker 6: He did speak to a couple people in the media.
Speaker 6: I think Michael Gelkin was one of them, James later
Speaker 6: as well, and what he talked about really was, Yeah,
Speaker 6: I'm not here this week. I'm still continuing my off
Speaker 6: season training. He does some off season training and a
Speaker 6: lot of boxing work actually part of his regimen. But
Speaker 6: he does that and he's going to continue to do
Speaker 6: that this week, and then he'll be here.
Speaker 7: Next week as well as the week after.
Speaker 6: And my thought was, I don't think anybody questions Michael
Speaker 6: Parson's ability to be able to play football and prepare
Speaker 6: himself to play football. I think he plays football extremely
Speaker 6: well and so for that you have to give him
Speaker 6: the credit of he knows obviously what his body's like.
Speaker 6: My question is more on the line of being a leader.
Speaker 6: And he actually talked in the interview that he did
Speaker 6: with Michael Gelkin about this team needing his leadership and
Speaker 6: him having to step up in that way. And Michael
Speaker 6: even asked us astuteley the question, how does it how
Speaker 6: you make those two things go together when you say
Speaker 6: you need to be a leader, but then you're also
Speaker 6: not there for everything. But my question for you guys
Speaker 6: is do you think that in any way this harms
Speaker 6: his ability to be a leadership by not being here? Again,
Speaker 6: I don't think anybody's question his ability to play football
Speaker 6: and prepare himself to play football. But on the leadership side,
Speaker 6: do you think that in any way inhibits his ability
Speaker 6: to be a great leader for this team but not
Speaker 6: being here for everything?
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think it does. We had this discussion on
Speaker 8: one O five to three the Fan yesterday about this
Speaker 8: and not everybody could be Dak Prescott. Not everybody could
Speaker 8: build a football field in their backyard at their home
Speaker 8: and encourage guys to s show up. He goes, I'm
Speaker 8: going to be out here working, you know, if you
Speaker 8: want to come out and work with me. I'll be
Speaker 8: happy to have you here. It's a different way of leading.
Speaker 8: I do think it hurts that. I think that people.
Speaker 8: You know, when you're out here every day and you're
Speaker 8: working and it's a voluntary situation, everybody else is out
Speaker 8: here working as well. And so there's a lot of
Speaker 8: young guys on this team that haven't played with Michael Parsons,
Speaker 8: a lot of young defensive players that haven't played with
Speaker 8: Michael Parsons. You know, So there's You're absolutely right, there's
Speaker 8: no question about his ability to play football. I said
Speaker 8: this yesterday. I don't think I think he talks about
Speaker 8: wanting to be a leader, but I don't think he
Speaker 8: wants to be a leader. That's just my opinion about
Speaker 8: the player. I think that he I think Michaeh Parsons
Speaker 8: has a lot of other interests. I think he has
Speaker 8: I think he wants to do things his own way.
Speaker 8: I think football is such a regimented thing for him
Speaker 8: from July through January that he realizes that, Okay, that's
Speaker 8: my part to be regimented. But when it comes to
Speaker 8: the other things, I think he wants to go do
Speaker 8: his own thing, and I mean personally though, to be
Speaker 8: a leader, you have to show up every single day
Speaker 8: and put in the work. And he puts in the work,
Speaker 8: but he puts it in the work his way, not
Speaker 8: the organizational way or the team way of doing things. So, uh,
Speaker 8: we could talk about being a leader, but if you're
Speaker 8: not showing up, I think it's hard for you to
Speaker 8: be that leader.
Speaker 9: I would like him to be here or have been here.
Speaker 9: Obviously we'll focus on the word voluntary.
Speaker 11: So do voluntary right, right, But there's a lot of
Speaker 11: voluntary going on, So absolutely, I don't think that's that's
Speaker 11: even going back to what I was saying.
Speaker 9: I would prefer that he have been here up to
Speaker 9: this point for all the reasons you said. And but
Speaker 9: I had this conversation with some colleagues a couple of
Speaker 9: weeks ago wherein the question becomes when you're talking about
Speaker 9: Michael Parsons or anyone in the National Football League leader
Speaker 9: versus elite player. Not every elite player is designed to
Speaker 9: be a leader, and not every leader is going to
Speaker 9: be an elite player. Question is what do you which
Speaker 9: one of those does Michael Parsons fall into? And I
Speaker 9: think he falls into the former where he's an elite player,
Speaker 9: but he may never be that leader that you want.
Speaker 9: If that kind of leadership you're looking for is the
Speaker 9: Dak Prescott kind of leadership, that you're not going to
Speaker 9: get a Dak Prescott kind of leadership with Michael Parsons.
Speaker 9: I don't think that that's how he's wired. But he's
Speaker 9: an elite player. So in that capacity, his production on
Speaker 9: the field will help motivate those younger guys and they'll
Speaker 9: learn from his techniques and he'll they'll be able to
Speaker 9: pick his brain in practices and so forth and so on.
Speaker 9: But if you're I think if you're expecting him to
Speaker 9: be at any point in his career to become that
Speaker 9: Dak Prescott type guy, I think you're kind of setting
Speaker 9: yourself up for disappointment. And for me, it's all about expectation.
Speaker 9: I want him here, I want him to be able
Speaker 9: to be that guy. But then at a certain point,
Speaker 9: maybe he's just not and you're just gonna have to
Speaker 9: work with what it is.
Speaker 10: I think too, I was just gonna say that to me.
Speaker 10: I think not everyone's meant to be a leader, and
Speaker 10: that's okay, and it should be okay just because you're great.
Speaker 10: Just because you're such a great football player doesn't mean
Speaker 10: that you should be forced to lead and to mentor
Speaker 10: other people. That should be a choice and we should
Speaker 10: be okay with that not being the case for someone
Speaker 10: like him. It's totally fine. Where it becomes a problem
Speaker 10: for me and I love Michael Parson the player and everything,
Speaker 10: But where it just makes me raise an eyebrow is
Speaker 10: more the teammate type of thing. Are you being a
Speaker 10: teammate because this is a teamwork and you should be
Speaker 10: part of the team and you should be here during
Speaker 10: this time when OTAs have started, And more so than that,
Speaker 10: after seeing certain talks that happened throughout the season last
Speaker 10: year where his teammate likeness or I don't even know
Speaker 10: the word was in question where and I'm saying, I'm saying, like,
Speaker 10: are you throwing somebody under the bus during some interviews?
Speaker 10: Are you upset because you didn't make great plays during
Speaker 10: the game but somebody else did? But yeah, you're having
Speaker 10: a sad face round. So I'm saying, when things like
Speaker 10: that are talked about throughout the season, are you really
Speaker 10: wanting to It's up to you whether you want to
Speaker 10: be part of the team or do you want to
Speaker 10: keep playing quote unquote solo and be your own person.
Speaker 10: And for a sport like this, it does matter. It
Speaker 10: doesn't matter what happens in the locker room. It does
Speaker 10: matter for you to start and keep on building these
Speaker 10: relationships because it does, really, it does translate on the
Speaker 10: field when you have a really good connection with your
Speaker 10: teammates and when you don't. And I think that could
Speaker 10: and this is just me as speculating this is, but
Speaker 10: if this is the trend that's going to occur during
Speaker 10: the season, I think that could potentially lead to some
Speaker 10: undesirable things as far as like teammate teamwork environment and
Speaker 10: what happens in the locker room.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think he's put his coaches in a bad
Speaker 8: position right here. And and if dan Quinn was still here,
Speaker 8: his defensive coordinator and everything was still the same, I
Speaker 8: could understand being away. But the fact that you have
Speaker 8: a new defensive coordinator here and new coaches as well,
Speaker 8: you know, on the staff, and a big turnover on
Speaker 8: the defensive staff. You know, I think you being here
Speaker 8: is important for that, you know, just for your own
Speaker 8: good for the coaches. See, it's hard for coaches to
Speaker 8: deal with players that are superstar players because you have
Speaker 8: to walk that line. You have to walk that line
Speaker 8: about like I do I say something here? Do I
Speaker 8: not say something here? You know, Mike McCarthy, of course
Speaker 8: is going to talk positively about Michael Parsons. But where
Speaker 8: but where we need to kind of focus on this
Speaker 8: is and is that Yeah, he is a great player.
Speaker 8: But on the other end, I don't need you talking
Speaker 8: about being a leader if you're not willing to do
Speaker 8: everything to lead. That's the disconnect that I have right there.
Speaker 8: That's the problem. If I was working in the front office,
Speaker 8: I'm like, Okay, let's not ask this guy to lead.
Speaker 8: Then let's not ask him to be one of our
Speaker 8: guys that way.
Speaker 9: And this is why I don't have so much of
Speaker 9: an issue with Ceedee Lamb not being in the building
Speaker 9: at the moment. First of all, it's two different conversations
Speaker 9: because one is up for a contract talk right now.
Speaker 9: But also something Brian pointed out and I pointed out
Speaker 9: on Twitter a couple of days ago, there's been so
Speaker 9: much change on the defensive side of the ball that
Speaker 9: you would want Michael Parsons to be here, be present,
Speaker 9: meet these new coaches in person, granted he's been having
Speaker 9: the meetings and quote unquote he's not behind on anything.
Speaker 4: Per Mike McCarthy.
Speaker 9: We get all of that, but there's something to be
Speaker 9: said for you being in the building and on the
Speaker 9: field with these guys. But from a CD Lamb standpoint,
Speaker 9: other than adding a quality assist it on the offense,
Speaker 9: everything's pretty much the same, right, It's the same playbook,
Speaker 9: it's the same franchise quarterback. You got some changes up
Speaker 9: front on the offensive line, but there's nothing that Cedee
Speaker 9: Lamb is risking getting behind on because there's not been
Speaker 9: that attrition in the coaching. There's not been that much
Speaker 9: attrition on the offensive side of the ball. You got
Speaker 9: it familiar, got back if anything, and Ezekiel Elliot in
Speaker 9: your backfield. So I think that when you're people are
Speaker 9: comparing the two things, they're making the two things seem
Speaker 9: the same, but they're not the same at all. I
Speaker 9: feel like those are two different conversations. So from the
Speaker 9: CD Lamb front, it's much easier for him to come in.
Speaker 9: Whenever he does come in, hopefully it's stoot fourth Mini camp,
Speaker 9: but you know training camp as possibility as well. Whenever
Speaker 9: ceed Lamb does report, it's much of a greater chance
Speaker 9: that he will hit the ground running versus when Michael
Speaker 9: Parson shows up next week and now has to start
Speaker 9: kind of prepping his way to get ready for mini
Speaker 9: camp and slowly little ramp up because there's been so
Speaker 9: much change on the defense.
Speaker 10: Also, players understand and see when when it is a
Speaker 10: contract thing, they're like, hey, you do your thing different
Speaker 10: potentially in a position like that eventually, but then when
Speaker 10: it's just by your own choice, it's more like, oh,
Speaker 10: once you finally get there, you're too good to be
Speaker 10: out here with us working.
Speaker 6: And that's I guess that's where I was going to
Speaker 6: go with this, and I'll say this before we go
Speaker 6: to break.
Speaker 4: Gotta get a break.
Speaker 6: But one of the things that I think has to
Speaker 6: be factored in here is that, to me, leadership starts
Speaker 6: and ends with respect. If the people that are supposedly
Speaker 6: following this leader respect him and respects the decisions that
Speaker 6: he or she are making, then he can be a
Speaker 6: leader and he will be a leader. If not, then
Speaker 6: everything goes away. And so the question, which I don't
Speaker 6: think any of us can necessarily answer, a lot of
Speaker 6: those guys in the locker room have to answer it
Speaker 6: is do they respect him and respect this decision of
Speaker 6: him not being here?
Speaker 7: How do they see it?
Speaker 6: Do they see it as guy, as you said, you're
Speaker 6: too good to be out here with us, so you
Speaker 6: don't have time to be out here with us, or
Speaker 6: do they see it as I get it, that's cool,
Speaker 6: we'll see you next week. And when you show up
Speaker 6: next week, he's ready to go and he's talking and
Speaker 6: guys are following.
Speaker 7: If that's the.
Speaker 6: Case, this means nothing. This week means absolutely nothing. Now
Speaker 6: if it's different. If next week he shows up and
Speaker 6: those people are looking at him, that's when I think
Speaker 6: there's a question. And that's really more for his teammates
Speaker 6: to answer, more so than even him. Is how do
Speaker 6: they perceive him? Do they respect it?
Speaker 7: Or do they not. We're gonna take our first break.
Speaker 4: When we come back.
Speaker 6: We'll jump into our position analysis. We're talking about safeties
Speaker 6: when we get back. Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio.
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Speaker 4: Welcome back.
Speaker 6: We're in the second segment of the Break live from
Speaker 6: the s WBC Morri Studios at the Start, presented by
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Speaker 4: We in.
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Speaker 7: Let's talk about.
Speaker 6: Our position series. We're doing what I call a SWAT analysis. Basically,
Speaker 6: we're talking about strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats. If you
Speaker 6: guys remember from last week, let's talk about the safety position.
Speaker 6: You've got Mali Cooker, Donovan Wilson, Marquise Bell, Janya Thomas,
Speaker 6: is Reel mcwamu Amani Johnson.
Speaker 7: Julius Wood.
Speaker 6: These are names that are on the roster right now
Speaker 6: as safeties on this team. Let's start first with strengths.
Speaker 6: If you have to identify one strength of this position group,
Speaker 6: what would it be Patricklet's start with.
Speaker 9: You versatility, and that versatility comes from Malie Hooker being
Speaker 9: able to be a true center fielder in conjunction with
Speaker 9: Donovan Wilson being able to be kind of that heat
Speaker 9: seeking missile for you, right, So he can give you
Speaker 9: some coverage, but he can also be a guy that
Speaker 9: helps you in run defense. He can be a guy
Speaker 9: that you sent sent at the opposing quarterback and blitz
Speaker 9: packages and then you know, similarly goes for Janya Tummas,
Speaker 9: which is why in instances where jay Ron Curse was
Speaker 9: unable to take the field, Wya Thomas was able to
Speaker 9: step in and help you cover tight ends and things
Speaker 9: like that. Now that Marquise Bell has been moved back
Speaker 9: to defensive back back to safety, he's going to give
Speaker 9: you that same kind of flexibility as well as far
Speaker 9: as cover, but he can also play forward as well.
Speaker 9: So and if you look at the size of some
Speaker 9: of these rookies, Woods being one of them, these are
Speaker 9: him specifically.
Speaker 4: That's a massive safety.
Speaker 9: So much so that when he was walking through mini
Speaker 9: camp and I walked up behind him from behind, he
Speaker 9: looked like a linebacker and they were like, oh no,
Speaker 9: that's the rookie safety, and I was like, wow, okay,
Speaker 9: so that guy can do some damage. So for me,
Speaker 9: it's versatility and they still have some questions to answer. Obviously,
Speaker 9: you love what won Ye Thomas was able to do
Speaker 9: in year two, Marquise Bell as well, but it's specifically
Speaker 9: one ye at safety. He drew some high praise from
Speaker 9: Al Harris as well, but with presumably Jeron Curse not returning,
Speaker 9: I don't believe that he will. This is going to
Speaker 9: be won Ye Thomas' job going forward, and I want
Speaker 9: to see him in a starter capacity, but versatility is
Speaker 9: going to be it for me.
Speaker 8: Physicality I think with you you talked about Wilson, Thomas, Bell,
Speaker 8: you mentioned the young kids with Johnson and Wood. These
Speaker 8: guys all tackle and they're all physical players. Where they're
Speaker 8: going to have to figure out is how can they
Speaker 8: play the back end of this And hopefully Mollie Cooker,
Speaker 8: you know, will give you a little bit of that
Speaker 8: with some depth. But when you're talking about this team,
Speaker 8: they got some safety. These are willing to play forward
Speaker 8: and willing to tackle, and I think that's the thing
Speaker 8: that we have to kind of look at going forward
Speaker 8: here is that who is going to be the guy
Speaker 8: that plays the deep part. They've got the guys that
Speaker 8: can play underneath and handle that. But Mike Zimmer's an
Speaker 8: interchangeable guy. So those guys that play down are going
Speaker 8: to also have to be able to cover some So
Speaker 8: whoever figures that out or likely the guys that are
Speaker 8: going to be on this field.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I agree with everything. I think that after the
Speaker 10: long drought of safeties, the lack of safeties, capable safeties,
Speaker 10: I think you still have a group that with all
Speaker 10: these guys, every single name. These are guys that have
Speaker 10: shown you different moments that they're capable and that they
Speaker 10: have something that excites you and that drive you talk
Speaker 10: about tackling that haves that that have that kind of
Speaker 10: aggressiveness to go forward on the play. And yeah, still
Speaker 10: you know, with Donovan Wilson, I a little sad last
Speaker 10: year about it, but I still have hopes on him
Speaker 10: as far as like his play level. He didn't kind
Speaker 10: of show up to the level I expected him to,
Speaker 10: but yeah, overall a solid group.
Speaker 6: That's the interesting thing about Donovan Wilson throughout there. I
Speaker 6: think he actually got better as the season went along.
Speaker 6: To me, I think he started earlier in the season,
Speaker 6: but I think as the season went along, we started
Speaker 6: to see more of that Donovan Wilson that we'd seen,
Speaker 6: that that that they that they wanted, that they ended
Speaker 6: up paying because I think he showed up a little later.
Speaker 7: Talk to me about what do you think the biggest
Speaker 7: weakness is of that position group.
Speaker 9: They need to get better at taking the ball away.
Speaker 9: We talk a lot about what Trevon Diggs can do
Speaker 9: and taking the ball away, uh dron Bland, but those
Speaker 9: are two you know, one rating NFL in exceptions leader,
Speaker 9: one former NFL interceptions leader, Jordan Lewis can take the
Speaker 9: ball away also in run defense as well, just as
Speaker 9: Christian McCaffrey. But when you look at the safeties, you
Speaker 9: had Donovan Wilson, he actually led the safety group, but
Speaker 9: with only two interceptions. Malie Hooker had only one interception
Speaker 9: last season. Ony Ye Thomas, for all the promise that
Speaker 9: he brings, he had no interceptions, but he had opportunities.
Speaker 9: I think on two different occasions the ball hit him
Speaker 9: in the hands and he just didn't come up with it.
Speaker 9: So for me, if the Cowboys safeties can figure out
Speaker 9: how to match serve in that category with the Cowboys cornerbacks.
Speaker 4: There will be a lethal group back there.
Speaker 8: Who's the interchangeable guy at the other end, I mean,
Speaker 8: Elie Hooker could probably be the guy that has the
Speaker 8: best for that. I don't know if particularly if you
Speaker 8: want to put Wilson in a lot of coverage. I
Speaker 8: think jan Ye Thomas can cover. Bell to me is
Speaker 8: a little bit of a shorter guy, so I don't
Speaker 8: know how well you want to play him in coverage.
Speaker 8: We'll see with Johnson. When I was watching his tape
Speaker 8: in Woods tape, the two rookies, they seem to be
Speaker 8: guys that had some coverability. But who out of this
Speaker 8: group besides Hooker can really cover? So that's question I'll
Speaker 8: have going through this.
Speaker 7: Real quick on that. What are your thoughts on Mkwalme's ability.
Speaker 4: To Yeah, that's the thing about it.
Speaker 8: I've been waiting for him since two thousand and two,
Speaker 8: to you know, I know he was drafted in the
Speaker 8: sixth round in two thousand and one. I'm just him,
Speaker 8: nay Sean Wright. Those are a couple of guys that
Speaker 8: you know, a third round guy, a sixth round guy.
Speaker 8: You know, they look the part. But I've been waiting
Speaker 8: for both these guys to play now it seems like
Speaker 8: for three years, you know, so, yeah, is that a possibility. Sure,
Speaker 8: we'll Zimmer get something out of him that way in
Speaker 8: the coverage aspect, I hope. But they're gonna have somebody's
Speaker 8: gonna have to step up, you know. When you're talking
Speaker 8: about coverage, they're not gonna it's just not the single high,
Speaker 8: played down in the box defense that we've seen the
Speaker 8: last several years. These guys have got to be able
Speaker 8: to play some coverage and somebody has to figure that out.
Speaker 10: I can't find the right word, the right adjective that
Speaker 10: I'm looking for. But and it's not like consistency, because
Speaker 10: that's not really it. But I would like them to
Speaker 10: be more independent, if that makes sense, rather than consistent, Like,
Speaker 10: don't be the supportive supporter. I can't find out more
Speaker 10: you're talking about getting turnovers and things like that. Just
Speaker 10: be more of an independent player where you're the solid
Speaker 10: guy making your own plays rather than being the supportive
Speaker 10: cast memory exactly. That's kind of what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 10: But overall, there's still room for growth in that area
Speaker 10: where they could really elevate and help elevate the defense.
Speaker 8: But you know, it's funny you talk about turnovers. Patrick,
Speaker 8: Mike Zimmers already really kind of apologized in the way says, listen,
Speaker 8: our scheme might not be for everybody when it comes
Speaker 8: to creating turnovers. And if you're a Cowboy fan, you know,
Speaker 8: we come on here in week five and we start
Speaker 8: talking about, you know, the secondary having created turnovers. But
Speaker 8: if they're not giving up big plays and they're tackling
Speaker 8: and all that, this might be the trade off of
Speaker 8: the new scheme. You know, Mike has already said, hey, listen,
Speaker 8: we might not create a as many turnovers as we've
Speaker 8: seen here the last several years. So that's something you know,
Speaker 8: when we talk about turnovers and as a group, that
Speaker 8: something that might not happen just because of the way
Speaker 8: they played the scheme.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So the interesting part about that is not getting as
Speaker 6: many turnovers has an inverse effect. It means the offense
Speaker 6: has a lot more pressure now to take seventy seventy
Speaker 6: five eight r drives to get a touchdown, whereas before
Speaker 6: you were getting short fields. That changes a lot of things,
Speaker 6: and it puts a lot of pressure on your offense.
Speaker 6: And we'll see if the offense is capable of being
Speaker 6: able to handle that added pressure. Let's talk about opportunities,
Speaker 6: and if you remember what I was getting at here
Speaker 6: is what is an unknown right now?
Speaker 7: What's a question mark.
Speaker 6: For them that you think has the best potential to
Speaker 6: become an asset.
Speaker 9: Le'll start with you, Patrick, question mark has the potential
Speaker 9: to become the best asset.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 9: I'm going to go with I'm going to put a
Speaker 9: draw circle around Marquise Bell here because I think that
Speaker 9: Marquise's trick in the linebacker corps last year can pay
Speaker 9: dividends for him going forward as a defensive back. Whatever
Speaker 9: any positives that he was able to take away from
Speaker 9: his time as linebacker, yeh, there was some negatives obviously,
Speaker 9: you know size and size, But I think there are
Speaker 9: some positives that he can take away that will help him,
Speaker 9: from a safety standpoint, be better at helping that group
Speaker 9: defend the run and helping the defensive backs defend the run.
Speaker 9: And if that comes to fruition, then that goes to
Speaker 9: the overall run support that the Cowboys need or run
Speaker 9: defense that the Cowboys need desperately in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 9: So I would look for that as like an intangible
Speaker 9: I just want to see how Marquis Bell's game has
Speaker 9: changed twenty twenty two versus twenty twenty four because of
Speaker 9: what occurred in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 8: Donovan Wilson becomes a better cover guy, that would help
Speaker 8: because he's already got the physicality for the run defense stuff.
Speaker 8: It's either him or jan Ye Thomas. I think wan
Speaker 8: Ye Thomas is really more of a complete player. I
Speaker 8: think he covers well. I think he tackles well. I
Speaker 8: think he's a physical player. That's going to be a
Speaker 8: battle for that spot right there. I really do believe
Speaker 8: that Wanya Thomas is putting on way he's work out.
Speaker 8: He looks bigger, he looks you know, who can cover.
Speaker 8: If Donovan Wilson can cover, then that's the one thing
Speaker 8: that that will help this help this safety group a bunch.
Speaker 8: You know, Like we talked about playing better in the
Speaker 8: second half. The first half the season, he didn't play
Speaker 8: with any awareness at all. We remember the Arizona game,
Speaker 8: you know, with some of the stuff that was happening there,
Speaker 8: guy's running right by him. And think so if they
Speaker 8: find a way to get him playing more as a
Speaker 8: complete player, that will really help this group.
Speaker 10: Yeah, with Thomas, he's the one guy that I think
Speaker 10: there's more room for growth as far as there's more
Speaker 10: ability to do more things because with Hooker Bell mcguambal,
Speaker 10: I feel like you kind of know what you got there,
Speaker 10: and that's just kind of what it is to me.
Speaker 10: Donovan Wilson, I think he still has a little bit
Speaker 10: of just kind of stepping taking the next step, but
Speaker 10: it's not too far. But Juania Thomas, he's a guy
Speaker 10: that he has the speed, he can move very fast
Speaker 10: and easily. He has the ability, he's not afraid of tackling.
Speaker 10: He's still young. He so there's just more things that
Speaker 10: excite me that I think he can grow and develop
Speaker 10: into even a more solid player for you that can
Speaker 10: contribute even more on the defense. So that's a guy
Speaker 10: that I would say, we've.
Speaker 6: Got to get this last break. We'll come back when
Speaker 6: we finish up. We'll finish up on the safety conversation
Speaker 6: and talk a little bit about too, what jay Ron
Speaker 6: Curse's APPSCE may mean for this position, if anything. We'll
Speaker 6: talk about that when we come BA Dallas Cowboys dot
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Speaker 4: Welcome back.
Speaker 6: Final segment of the Braak Life in SWBC Mortgus two
Speaker 6: ye at the Star presented by lg We're talking about
Speaker 6: the safety position.
Speaker 7: We got one more. No, I'm good, we got one
Speaker 7: more area that we're hitting. We got one more. The threat?
Speaker 6: What is the biggest obstacle to this group position group's success?
Speaker 10: Say one.
Speaker 8: The biggest threat is there that they don't adapt to
Speaker 8: how Zimmer wants to play. If he has to mask
Speaker 8: deficiencies with their ability to cover and has to adjust. Now,
Speaker 8: coaches adjust their schemes all the time, but there's a
Speaker 8: specific way that Mike likes to play his safeties. And
Speaker 8: if they don't get that interchangeable way. Is there one
Speaker 8: guy or there are several guys that can't that they're
Speaker 8: all just down players and none of them can cover,
Speaker 8: then that's the that's the thing I think that I
Speaker 8: would worry about.
Speaker 4: To answer your question.
Speaker 9: I think their biggest threat lies in a different position group.
Speaker 9: I think it's with the the interior of the defensive line.
Speaker 9: If the Cowboys cannot figure out out the interior of
Speaker 9: the defensive line, that means they're going to have troubles
Speaker 9: stopping the run. They're going to have troubles pushing the pocket,
Speaker 9: the interior of the pocket on pass plays. And if
Speaker 9: they're having trouble pushing the interior of the pocket, then
Speaker 9: that allows quarterbacks to sit there comfortably and coverage windows
Speaker 9: begin to expand. And yet keep in mind Trevon Diggs,
Speaker 9: he'll be back, but how much grace is he going
Speaker 9: to need to get back to form things like that?
Speaker 9: So that means the safeties and the secondary overall are
Speaker 9: going to have to be that much more up to
Speaker 9: task to make sure that they're doing something. Number one,
Speaker 9: that they're stopping plays, pass breakups, tackling sound tackling. But
Speaker 9: also going back to what I said, they need to
Speaker 9: improve upon takeaways. They would then the cruks would be
Speaker 9: on them, the onners would be on them to do
Speaker 9: more in the takeaway aspect. So the better, the defensive
Speaker 9: line plays, the less work they'll have on them from
Speaker 9: a play to play basis. But if that defensive line
Speaker 9: doesn't get worked out, then they're going to have their
Speaker 9: hands cut off for them on the play to play basis.
Speaker 10: I would agree with just them being able to adapt
Speaker 10: to this new whole system, similar to Brian mentioned with
Speaker 10: Mike Zimmer, and I have full trust on Mike Zimmer
Speaker 10: and what he's trying to do with the defense, But
Speaker 10: remind me, it was Mike Nolan, right, So with Mike Nolan,
Speaker 10: we saw it because it can happen where players just
Speaker 10: can't get a good grip of what is happening with you.
Speaker 8: Coach, we see that again, Coach again, You're hearing that
Speaker 8: a lot in practice. Coach, need to see that again exactly.
Speaker 10: I think, again, I don't think that will be the case,
Speaker 10: but it could happen. So it's just the transition of
Speaker 10: the difference in scheme and how quickly are they all
Speaker 10: able to adapt to this new coach correct.
Speaker 7: If I'm wrong.
Speaker 6: My understanding of Mike Zimmer's system is it's not as
Speaker 6: complex as say, of Mike Nolan's.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't think.
Speaker 6: I think that's one of the big things that should
Speaker 6: make it a fairly easy transition.
Speaker 7: Now what he's asking, that's a whole different thing of whether.
Speaker 6: The guys are capable of maybe doing those things fit
Speaker 6: and as far as technique is concerned. But I don't
Speaker 6: think it's going to be a mental thing for them.
Speaker 7: Well, Mary, I will.
Speaker 8: Say this about Mike, this is my experience with him.
Speaker 8: If you're not a smart guy and you bust, he's
Speaker 8: not gonna play it. He's not and so he's going
Speaker 8: to try and disguise things. He's going to try and
Speaker 8: make looks, make muddy looks for quarterbacks and offensive coordinators
Speaker 8: to deal with. But if you if you're a guy
Speaker 8: that constantly is having problems picking up what he's trying
Speaker 8: to do, he will he will play with a lesser player,
Speaker 8: then he will play with the star that that can't
Speaker 8: pick it up. He's just not into you're in the busts.
Speaker 8: He's just gonna he's gonna limit that thing. That thing
Speaker 8: that happened in Green Bay with they had all those
Speaker 8: guys in that playoff game running wide open that I
Speaker 8: guarantee you that is not going to happen here. He's
Speaker 8: not going to allow that to be the thing that
Speaker 8: kills this defense of guys making mistakes when it comes
Speaker 8: to mental mistakes.
Speaker 4: And what should happen.
Speaker 9: As far as helping players who are unfamiliar with Mike
Speaker 9: Zimmer acclimate fairly quickly. Talk about the addition of Eric Kendricks.
Speaker 9: We spoke with Kendricks a couple of times. He's already
Speaker 9: said he's doing all he can, even before OTA's before
Speaker 9: veterans and rookies got together to kind of help bring
Speaker 9: everyone up to speed on what Mike Zimmer's playbooks going
Speaker 9: to look like. Talk about Greg Ellis, former pro bowler,
Speaker 9: but he played under Mike Zimmer, so he not only
Speaker 9: knows the temperament of Mike Zimmer can deliver that information
Speaker 9: to everyone involved, but he also understands what Zimmer is
Speaker 9: looking for, how he wants to structure a defense. So
Speaker 9: between guys like Ellis and Kendricks, at least you have
Speaker 9: those in house guys that know and it can pull
Speaker 9: you DeMont Clark to the side, that Marveon rovshiulm to
Speaker 9: the side, can pull Marshawn Neeland to the side, or
Speaker 9: even DeMarcus Launce Michael Parsons's to say, hey, this is
Speaker 9: how Quinn was doing it, but let me tell you
Speaker 9: how Mike likes to do it, and that should help
Speaker 9: them kind of hit the ground running a little bit
Speaker 9: better before training camp gets around.
Speaker 6: One big question mark for me this year is what
Speaker 6: are the Cowboys going to do at safety without Jyron
Speaker 6: Curse and not so much missing Jayaron Curse the player,
Speaker 6: because I don't know if you'll have that kind of impact,
Speaker 6: but certainly from the standpoint of how they played defense
Speaker 6: for the last couple of years, they really have used
Speaker 6: three safeties as though they were starters, and now they
Speaker 6: don't have that. My assumption is that nobody's gonna necessarily
Speaker 6: step into that role. I don't know if that's how
Speaker 6: Mike will run his defense, But what do you guys
Speaker 6: think will be the biggest difference in not having jay
Speaker 6: Ron curs as to be a part of this group.
Speaker 8: And I don't want to be the mean guy, but
Speaker 8: his play was starting to go downhill, It really was,
Speaker 8: and you know it's effect, and maybe it was because
Speaker 8: of the fact that he had to play so many
Speaker 8: snaps hell him bell well, all those guys last year,
Speaker 8: I mean, they had to fill in. They didn't have linebackers,
Speaker 8: you know, and I'm saying that in a way of
Speaker 8: respect for the way that cursed, but at the end,
Speaker 8: he couldn't run well enough, the tackling was falling off
Speaker 8: and all that. So you know, they move on.
Speaker 4: He moves on.
Speaker 8: He gave you a couple of great years, he really did.
Speaker 8: He was a leader in a lot of ways. He
Speaker 8: was a guy that stood up in front of the
Speaker 8: media and told you what was going right arong. You
Speaker 8: respect a guy like that. But his play started to diminish,
Speaker 8: and you know, once you watch the tape on that,
Speaker 8: you're like, okay, we got to move on. So I
Speaker 8: you know, we all wish him the best, but you know,
Speaker 8: like I said, I think it's one of those moves
Speaker 8: that they made in a way of knowing that his
Speaker 8: play was declining to a point that we can't play
Speaker 8: with a guy like that and have the type of
Speaker 8: defense that we want.
Speaker 9: I mean, jern in his first couple of seasons, I mean,
Speaker 9: we saw him reach promet form under Dan Quinn. Last season,
Speaker 9: I think the injuries started to kind of take take
Speaker 9: this to take their toll. Everybody started to wear down
Speaker 9: a little bit, and then guess what, you found out
Speaker 9: when that started to happen, you start to find out
Speaker 9: that one, yeah, Thomas is a hell of a ball player,
Speaker 9: and then that means you had to start looking at
Speaker 9: those two things happening concurrently. Whereas jay Ron he can
Speaker 9: still play football in the NFL, but maybe he's on
Speaker 9: the on the back end of his career. Whereas one
Speaker 9: Yea Thomas twenty twenty four and beyond, maybe he needs
Speaker 9: to get that nod. And I think the Cowboys went
Speaker 9: into the offseason this offseason with that exact thought process,
Speaker 9: which is why they opted to not make an offer
Speaker 9: for jay Ron Curs, because they're looking at wan Yea
Speaker 9: Thomas and marquispell moving back to safety and saying, hey,
Speaker 9: we've got Malie Cooker lockdown on a new deal that
Speaker 9: we gave him last July. We got Donavan Wilson lockdown
Speaker 9: on a new deal we gave him last July. We
Speaker 9: got these two young, promising, very very promising safeties, and
Speaker 9: maybe we still want to find out what if we
Speaker 9: have anything in Mukuamu before his rookie contract is up.
Speaker 9: So Jayron Curs, I do believe he can still play
Speaker 9: football in the NFL, but I just don't think he
Speaker 9: was a fit any longer for what the Cowboys have
Speaker 9: going forward.
Speaker 10: Yeah, he was definitely declining. And I think something that
Speaker 10: you'll miss though, is that I liked about him won
Speaker 10: his fire, he's fired on the field and also being
Speaker 10: a veteran, like that experience that he has. But like
Speaker 10: you guys said, I think it was and this is
Speaker 10: just me assuming and my perception of things, nothing that
Speaker 10: I've heard actually, but visually and looking at what's going on,
Speaker 10: you can kind of tell that he was starting not
Speaker 10: really happy being here. Like you could see those on
Speaker 10: the side conversations one on one with even Dan Quinn
Speaker 10: off to the side after game or not after right
Speaker 10: after games, but like training camp, we saw that and
Speaker 10: questions was maybe contract talks. Maybe he wasn't. He was
Speaker 10: a little bit upset that he was not getting offered
Speaker 10: a contract after Trevon Diggs getting his. But also I
Speaker 10: noticed games where the Cowboys would win and you see
Speaker 10: everybody coming off pretty happy, and then he'd be walking
Speaker 10: one of the last ones walking and just kind of
Speaker 10: like moping a little bit. Again, this is just me
Speaker 10: assuming based on his body language, but you could tell
Speaker 10: that he was it wasn't gonna be something that was
Speaker 10: gonna him staying here. He just he didn't seem as
Speaker 10: happy as he was like a year prior.
Speaker 9: I will say, and you bring up an excellent point, Handbar,
Speaker 9: I am curious to see who steps up and takes
Speaker 9: that vocal role in that in that safeties group. That
Speaker 9: because Malie Hooker, he can be vocal, but that's not
Speaker 9: necessarily his demeanor as far as matching what jay Ron did.
Speaker 9: Donovan is more of the quiet killer. Wan Ye has
Speaker 9: more of that energy, but he's still a young guy.
Speaker 9: Is he going to feel confident enough to be able
Speaker 9: to try to lead the room and lead the huddle?
Speaker 9: Because there were times that jay Ron Curse would be
Speaker 9: the one leading the huddle before games to get everybody
Speaker 9: fired up. So if nothing else, you're definitely going to
Speaker 9: miss that aspect of it. So I'm curious to see
Speaker 9: if you know, him not being here creates a vacuum
Speaker 9: for someone else to step in and be that vocal leader.
Speaker 6: If I'm accurate, I think he's still available. Point which
Speaker 6: I thought I actually thought he'd end up in Washington
Speaker 6: with so many other guys when Dan Quinn. Yeah, and
Speaker 6: that also that does say something to know that he's
Speaker 6: not there, because I think dan Quinn rated as many
Speaker 6: guys who could come in and do the things that
Speaker 6: he wanted them to be able to do there in Washington.
Speaker 6: So we'll see what happens with him. All right, We
Speaker 6: appreciate you guys joining us. We'll be back on next week.
Speaker 6: We may have a difference the day next week. We'll
Speaker 6: give you guys some information. Tuesday might be the day
Speaker 6: that we end up doing it next week, but we'll
Speaker 6: let you guys know till then. For Patrick Walker, Brian
Speaker 6: brought us Ambergarci. I'm Derek Yielton. This has been The
Speaker 6: Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio.
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