1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff mom never told you from how stup 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: Works not come hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline and fresh on the heels of 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 1: New York Fashion Week. We are doing something I'm kind 5 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: of surprised we haven't done before on the podcast, which 6 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: is looking at fashion. Yeah, fashion and fashion modeling, so 7 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: many loaded issues to talk about. So it's so perfect 8 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: for sminty, it really is. And here is the thing 9 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: I was not expecting when I set out to research 10 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: a history of fashion modeling, just wanting to know how 11 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: this whole catwalk thing began when women started being paid 12 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: to be clothed hangers essentially, and it was surprisingly hard 13 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,959 Speaker 1: to find. Of course, there are all sorts of galleries 14 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: and listicles on the Internet of the most famous or 15 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: hottest supermodels, but what about the era long before supermodels, 16 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: when women began modeling. You it took some digging. It 17 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: did take some digging, and actually pre era of women modeling, 18 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: it was all about men modeling, and before men modeling, 19 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: it was dull modeling. Yeah, all of the digging folks 20 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: absolutely worth it. And I first want to call out 21 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: the source for a lot of this this early early 22 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: history of fashion modeling, which is coming from fashion historian 23 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: Caroline Evans in her paper The Ontology of the Fashion Model, 24 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: which will have a link to on our website because 25 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: the full text is online and you can access it, 26 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: and I highly recommend you read it because it is fascinating. 27 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: So why don't we start off with looking at the 28 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: very word model Because models did not begin as models, 29 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: that's right, and so the very word model is derived 30 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,559 Speaker 1: from the Latin modelas, but it didn't mean fashion model 31 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: or even mathematical model until the twenty century. The first 32 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: fashion models were actually called demoiselle de magazine. Yeah, and 33 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: so from the eighteen seventies to around nineteen nine they 34 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: were first called mannequins, which was derived from the Dutch 35 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: word referring to an articulated doll used by artists. And 36 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: this use of mannequins to describe these earliest fashion models 37 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: was coined by a journalist in eighteen seventy, but writers 38 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 1: used a masculine gender for the words, separating the idea 39 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: from the person, and it would have earlier to call 40 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: someone a mannequin would have earlier been considered how super 41 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: pejorative words suggesting somebody who's empty headed, fashionable, but contemptible, 42 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: and it's negative connotations were maintained when it was becoming 43 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: used for women who were modeling clothes definitely evoked scorn 44 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: in the eight seventies. Evans writes that it comes to 45 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 1: suggest the theme of femininity as a kind of mechanical performance. Yeah. That, 46 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: and that refers to another book that she wrote all 47 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: about this, called The Mechanical Smile, all about fashion modeling, 48 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: and she talks about how the first fashion shows were 49 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: thus called mannequin parades. Now sometimes they were referred to 50 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: as living models, but it wasn't until really the mid 51 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: twentieth century that models became models referred to as models. 52 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: And initially the model though referred to the canvas twall, 53 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: which was a first stage dress, rather than the person 54 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: wearing the dress. So, as you can see, there's all 55 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: sorts of objectification constantly going on. If you think about us, 56 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: it's almost synecticuly being you know, the person being referred 57 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: to for the dress, and the fact that if we 58 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: think of mannequins today, you know, well, aside from Kim 59 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: Control and the movie Mannequin, and just thinking that usually 60 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: inanimate objects. But that's what they were paid to be, 61 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: inanimate objects, right, So let's get let's get creepy, let's 62 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: stat all creepy. Yeah, we got to talk about the original, 63 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: the O G model, which is a doll. These were 64 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 1: the precursors, the predecessors to fashion models, and basically eighteenth 65 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: century French dressmakers sent dolls that looked like the person 66 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: basically dressed in fancy clothes around Europe, largely because surprise, surprise, 67 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: fashionable women themselves really couldn't travel freely, which reflects so 68 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: much of the stuff that we talked about in terms 69 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: of women and travel in our summer series on women 70 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: and Travel last summer. And some could sure houses though 71 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: for that reason would make these doll body doubles of 72 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: clients to replicate her proportions, in other words, making a 73 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: custom mannequin for a woman that they could then build 74 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: off of. Sometimes designers would make those house calls. But 75 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: if you didn't live, say in downtown Paris, if you 76 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: weren't closely accessible to a designer, then yeah, you would 77 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: get a doll in the male creepy delivery. Hello, Hello, 78 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: and hello Also to the men who were the first 79 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: live breathing human models in Paris. Yeah, because men were 80 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: free or to parade around public spaces, so naturally they 81 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: were the first walking closed advertisements. And it's really started 82 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: in the eighteen twenties and only lasted about twenty years. 83 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: When Parisian tailors would hire handsome dudes called mannequins. They 84 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: really put the man in mannequins to wear their fancy 85 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: clothes and then they would just go out to hip 86 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: spots in Paris. They would go to the races and 87 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: be like, hello, dandies, you like how I'm dressed. I 88 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: don't know why I'm not speaking with a French action, 89 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: and no one can understand me because I'm also speaking English. Well, 90 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: the mannequins were largely looked down upon as posers. Basically 91 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: they were wearing nice closure, but they had to give 92 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: them back at the end of the day, and they 93 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: were described as a man whose profession was to rent 94 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: out his body. He had to be elegant enough to 95 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: appeal to dandy's but poor enough to require a wage 96 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: every day. Yeah, and keep that whole renting your body 97 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: out thing in mind, because that's going to come up 98 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: a lot in the early perceptions and last team perceptions 99 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: really female models in particular. But there was one great 100 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:38,239 Speaker 1: example that Evans mentions in the Ontology of the fashion Model, 101 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: which is from an vaudeville performance that features a mannequin 102 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: named Hector. And I'm talking again like a fashion model mannequin. 103 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: He was also an artist model, but the sky named 104 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: Hector who arrives on the stage singing, brilliant model, faithful 105 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: me raw, I sparkle with light and fire. I wander 106 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: everywhere setting the vocal the new looks in the catalog. 107 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: I love it so much. Little Hector to scout tap 108 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: dancing and his in his trousers than his velveteen trousers 109 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: light and fire. Um, I'm not going to be able 110 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: to recover from that all day. Basically, all right, Well, 111 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: if we if we moved past Hector the vaudevillian uh, 112 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: and we get into the eighteen fifties and sixties, we 113 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: see courier Charles Worth, who's credited with being the first 114 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: to use actual live breathing, living with blood in their 115 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: bodies female fashion models. And he kept it in the 116 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: family because his wife, Marie Rene, who was a sales clerk, 117 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: she became essentially the chief mannequin CMO Chief Mannequin Officer 118 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: and was quite possibly the West's very first fashion model. 119 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: And she was just pretty dedicated to her crap. This 120 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: woman worked twelve hour days in general, but also through 121 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: both of her pregnancies. Yeah. Yeah, it was not easy 122 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: to be a mannequin back then, and uh Evans talked 123 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: about how this was perhaps feminizing the advertising gimmick first 124 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: established by those tailors and their male mannequins um because 125 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: they also would send well dressed women out to the 126 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: races and other hot spots as well. And Charles Worth 127 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: though also instituted the idea of a pre designed collection 128 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,839 Speaker 1: rather than dresses made for one woman, and so he 129 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: would use living mannequins to show customers the dresses. Yeah, 130 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: and so then we get into the eighteen seventies to eighties, 131 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: Instead of those designers paying house calls, essentially the aristocratic 132 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: women began visiting them. And that's when we see fashion 133 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: modeling becoming more widespread because you had those living models 134 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: lounging about showing off their weares. And so by the 135 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: eighteen eneas in it was common for wealthy women to 136 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 1: just spend their afternoons watching the mannequins at top couturiers 137 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: of the time, like Charles Worth. And so that's when 138 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: we have this link between modeling and the association with 139 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 1: high end dressmakers, wealthy clientele, the status symbol kind of thing, 140 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: although of course there was a vast socio economic gap 141 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: between the mannequin and the client. Yeah. And so by 142 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 1: the end of the nineteenth century, the profession had been 143 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: thoroughly feminized. Most models were women, although of course at 144 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: this point they still weren't called models. They were still 145 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: called mannequins because models were associated with the women at 146 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 1: this point who posed for artists, another type of woman 147 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: who basically showed off her body for money. Yeah. And 148 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 1: there was just one image that comes to mind that 149 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 1: I saw in the research, which was all these well dressed, 150 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: beautifully dressed mannequins who were walking in a in a 151 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: very you know, post kind of way, but walking about 152 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 1: in a back lawn somewhere of a lovely estate. And 153 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: then you have the wealthy women just sitting around watching them, 154 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: seeing how the seeing how the clothes moved. Because that 155 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 1: was another important facet to this was this new found 156 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,719 Speaker 1: interest in actually seeing the clothes in motion. That was 157 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: probably the appeal of seeing it on a person who 158 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: could move around rather than you were personalized doll. So 159 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 1: creepy um. But the working conditions for models at the 160 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: time weren't exactly glamorous as you might imagine, because imagine 161 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: standing post for a portrait, but for hours, because you'd 162 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: essentially have to stand passively while the dressmaker would pull 163 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: and prod and poke at you, creating his dress on you, 164 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: and while wealthy aristocratic women would come in and pull 165 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: and poke and prod it you looking at the dress, 166 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: and all this would be happening while wearing an to 167 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: ankle black satin mayo or four oh underneath to preserve 168 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: modesty and also to protect the gown from getting dirty 169 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: and evans sites another source talking about how quote this 170 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: denial of the body is also a way of the mannequin, 171 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 1: long despised, living off her body like a prostitute. But 172 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: it's interesting to look at culture at large at the 173 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: time because in literature and psychology we also get a 174 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: lot of fear about doppelgangers, automatons, and the line between 175 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: animate and inanimate, live and dead. Yeah, there was a 176 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: lot of anxiety um surrounding even these mannequins, and Walter 177 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: Benjamin in particular had a fascination with fashion at the time. 178 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 1: You described fashionable women as mimicking the mannequin who enter 179 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: history as dead objects. Tell us all you really feel, Walter. Yeah, 180 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: And and fashion reporters and just I mean reporters in 181 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: general at the time reported these mannequins, these models as 182 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: being robotic and doll like well into the twentieth century, 183 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,959 Speaker 1: and we see the same thing reflected on catwalks today. 184 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of times, depending on the look 185 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: of the designer, models don't necessarily look all that human, right, 186 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 1: But if we go back to those points that we 187 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: hit earlier about you know, showing off your body from money, 188 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: things like that, these working class women who ended up 189 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 1: being these fashion models were right widely regarded as living objects. 190 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,719 Speaker 1: So they were literally objectified, but they were also stigmatized 191 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: as being sexually promiscuous, whether you were modeling fashion or 192 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,599 Speaker 1: modeling nude for an artist, because you're just you're this 193 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: passive body who is making a living wage or maybe 194 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 1: not a living wage by using your body. Yeah, I mean, 195 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: you're selling your body. And there was also I mean, 196 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: it was fairly common for these women too, I mean, 197 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: because they were they had to be attractive, you know, 198 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: they were slim and attractive. They were models, and it 199 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: was common even back then for them to end up 200 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: marrying wealthy men, and that was the way that they 201 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: entered society, which of course was looked down upon by 202 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: wealthy women who were like, you're nothing more than a mannequin. 203 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 1: Kim control, get out of here. Um. And then we 204 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: see in the early twentieth century the models who were 205 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: walking in the very first fashion shows having to master 206 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,839 Speaker 1: a sliding, undulating walk in order to move in the 207 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: tight sheath like dresses that designers were making that also 208 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:46,439 Speaker 1: emphasized their legs in new ways. It's this desire to 209 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: preview the clothing in motion. Yeah, because they not only 210 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 1: had to see how the clothes looked, but also had 211 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: to learn how to even wear the clothes to move 212 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: around in the of Um, there was something uh actually 213 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: this was a little bit before those sheath like dresses, 214 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: but in the late nineteenth century there was this sort 215 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: of a fashion fag called the Grecian Bend, which wrote 216 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: about for a blog post on Stuff I've Never Told 217 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: You dot com, which essentially was because of the combination 218 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: of corsets and bustles and high heels. The only way 219 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: to move around was to be bent over. You're literally 220 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: waited over by this, and so you have all of 221 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: these illustrations of high fashion women at the time tottering 222 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: around bent over as if they're looking for lost contacts 223 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: on the sidewalk. So we've always been slaves to fashion, yes, yes, absolutely, 224 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: except maybe in the loincloth days. Loinecloth seemed pretty low key. 225 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, Christen, that's really oppressive, yeah, or just breezy, 226 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: it's real breezy. Um. But these high end customers were 227 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: resistant though, to the rise of ready to wear, as 228 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: they could still pay for custom clothing. So keep that 229 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: in mine too. As we see this sort of economic 230 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: stratification of fashion starting to emerge as modeling then arrives 231 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: in the twentieth century in America, and we're shipping sources 232 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: to to another influential paper fashioning models, image, text, and industry. 233 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: So then we see in the World War One era 234 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: more Parisian designers coming state side. You have in nineteen 235 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: o eight Lady Duff Gordon opening her first US house 236 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: in Manhattan called Lucille, and she's introducing Couturier modeling. She 237 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: brought six living mannequins with her to display her work 238 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: and gave them exotic sounding names, similar to you know 239 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: how women's names are exoticized in brothels or strip clubs. Yeah. Again, 240 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: there are so many parallels constantly to modeling and prostitution. 241 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: And no, we're not equating the two, but at the time, 242 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's just there. Um So in 243 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: the nine twenties, though, Duff Gordon's Fashion house becomes the 244 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: first to have celebrity models when some of them become 245 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: hired for the zig Field folly. So you have Gamella 246 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: and other of their Madonna esque fashion models showing up 247 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: on these early catwalks in nineteen fifteen, in fact, there 248 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: was a transparent catwalk built for a zig Field show. Well, 249 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: so you have popular model and Zigfeld performer at Dolores, 250 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: which I love that that's like a model name because 251 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: I just pictured Dolores like this, a little old lady 252 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: with glasses. But anyway, Dolores became known essentially as the 253 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: Goddess of clothes. She modeled in Vogue, Harper's Bazaar, and 254 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: Town and Country, a subscription for which My mother signed 255 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: me up unprompted, and I love to flip through it 256 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: and just laugh laugh at how I can't afford anything 257 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: in that magazine have a town in country subscription. Yeah, 258 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: do you want to know? I just love learning these 259 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: things about you. It's all Sally Man. She she signed 260 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: me up for that. She also signed me up for 261 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: the following magazine in eighteen, Vanity Fair, which I never 262 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: have time to get through. God help me, reported that 263 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: no other woman, speaking of Dolores, had been more widely 264 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: posed or photographed. Yeah, so we start to have the 265 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,239 Speaker 1: first supermodels, sort of. I mean that that's about as 266 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,360 Speaker 1: super as you could get. But in nineteen twenty three, 267 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: after we have Dolores and her kind showing up in 268 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: Zigfield shows getting a lot of attention, there's an out 269 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: of work actor named John Robert Powers who is thinking 270 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: about what to do with other underemployed or unemployed theater folk, 271 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: and his wife makes an excellent suggestion to join photographers 272 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: and create the first modeling agency in the United States. 273 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: And John Robert Powers really hits the jackpot with this 274 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: idea thanks to the trans position also happening at the 275 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,719 Speaker 1: time in the advertising industry where you see a shift 276 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: beginning toward photography. Yeah, but you've also got a demand 277 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 1: going on from the ad industry for sanitized female sexuality 278 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: to sell goods. This is when we see the development 279 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: of this quest for the natural girl, looking clean and 280 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 1: like an upstanding citizen, somebody that you'd want to emulate 281 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: with the products. But she's still she's still attractive, and 282 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: this is still something that we think of in modeling today, 283 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 1: where it's looking for someone who has the look. What 284 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: is the look? At the time, it was sanitized female 285 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: sexuality because yeah, I mean female sexuality is terrifying. Well yeah, 286 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: and unless it's if it's unsanitized female sexuality right to sanitized, 287 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of like hand sanitizer all the burning. 288 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 1: But a year later, after John Rbert Power starts up 289 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: this first modeling agency in the US in ninety twenty four, 290 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: Jeanne Putau hires white American women to sell his clothes 291 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: so that customers could more easily identify with them and 292 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: in the process of doing this essentially being like models, 293 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: they're just like you. It elevates the status of modeling, 294 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: making it more of a socially accepted profession. So no 295 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: longer are they primarily perceived as prostitutes. There's a little 296 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: bit of respectability about it now, so more of something 297 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: that you'd want to aspire to. Suddenly, the aristocratic women 298 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: buying the fancy clothes want to be like the slim, 299 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: beautiful ladies wearing them, as opposed to looking down on 300 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: them for being like prostitutes. Well, and we also have 301 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: to keep in mind the rise of mass media and 302 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: photography at the time. We're seeing these photos of people 303 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: like never before as well. And this is also coinciding 304 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: with the rise of the earliest celebrity culture in Hollywood developing. 305 00:19:55,520 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 1: So a lot of forces combining to create this new 306 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: beauty culture. So during World War Two, it's interesting to 307 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: talk about the images that developed, the models that are used, 308 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: the image that designers want to present. Balenciaga, for instance, 309 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: showed his clothes on shorter, stockier women to reflect his 310 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: real life clientele, and during World War two this look 311 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: develops among models that pursues a more ordinary image, more cheerful, 312 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: to offset all of the gloom around the austerity during 313 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 1: the war. Yeah, so the war doesn't I mean, it 314 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: might take a little bit of attention away from modeling, 315 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: but it's still absolutely developing and growing. And so in 316 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 1: ninety seven, do yours Knew Look comes along though, and 317 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: it was highly controversial at the time because this is 318 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: when we really see fashion moving away from the practical, 319 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: and it was not great timing for it, because even 320 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: though the war might have been over, there was still 321 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: a lot of austerity ripple effects of austerity, particularly in 322 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: Europe at the time, and during one of the Oars 323 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,479 Speaker 1: shows at this time, a model was physically attacked by 324 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: outraged and impoverished onlookers who were saying, how could you 325 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: even suggest that we would wear these clothes in a 326 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: time like this? But the new look nonetheless created a 327 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: whole new look for models. They were sophisticated, They had 328 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: haughty eyebrows and groomed hair. In Caroline, I have a 329 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: new eyebrow aspiration, and it is for haughty eyebrows. I 330 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: like that the eyebrows themselves are haughty. They got real tude. 331 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, so the top models in New York ended 332 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: up adopting the look themselves, and in nineteen four Coco 333 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: Chanel's Total Look was modeled on young aristocrats. She looked 334 00:21:55,160 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: out to the people for her inspiration to the wealthy people. Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. Well, 335 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: and it was kind of a big deal because she 336 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily tapping say those twelve top models in New 337 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: York with the haughty eyebrows, but tapping actual real life aristocrats. Yeah. 338 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: And so in the late fifties, do you Or continues 339 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: to push the envelope by hiring dark, petite, an inexperienced 340 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: model Victoire to coincide with the rise of this new 341 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: class of clients for the ready to wear industry and 342 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: fashion modeling thus took on a new element of social class, 343 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: and a lot of his pre existing clients considered the 344 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: hiring of Victoire to be an insult her left bank look, 345 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: how dare he? I wonder how haughty her eyebrows were. 346 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. She had really just like down to 347 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: earth eyebrows, and they're like, Nope, not gonna do Victoire. 348 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: But it was with this rise of ready to wear 349 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: and technological developments of fashion photography that really leads us 350 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: into today's modeling industry, because we have things like ready 351 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: to wear lying on standardized sizing, and so then you 352 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: get that idealized model look because the models had to 353 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: be thin enough to fit these specific standardized sample sizes. 354 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: And in the nineteen sixties too, when it comes to 355 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: fashion photography, you have its availability for the first time 356 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: due to technology in newsprint and magazines, bringing high fashion 357 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: looks to the masses. It's everywhere, fashionists everywhere, and these 358 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: and these high end models can be photographed and become 359 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: recognizable faces in all of the in town and country. 360 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: For instance, for the I must get those writing booths. Yes, um, 361 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: but yeah. So this is when we see like the 362 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: development of cult of personality around models. They become more 363 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: important for creating looks for their designers campaigns than ever before. 364 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 1: And this really sets the stage for or the catwalk 365 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: for high paid supermodels that we see starting around the eighties. 366 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: You've got g In Shrimpton. She was the first of 367 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 1: the quote unquote natural models required to market ready to wear, 368 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: and she talks about how like, yeah, you know, I 369 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: just looked pretty ordinary and that really soul. I of 370 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: course she's beautiful. My gosh, thinking of Jeane Shrimpton. Jeane 371 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: Shrimpton is anything but ordinary. I have a hair crush 372 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: on her, I know, day long. I know, well, but yeah, 373 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: she talks about how like I didn't have any sort 374 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: of essentially high fashion look. I had a more accessible 375 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: Middle America look, and that is what sold. And then 376 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: you have nineteen sixty six, Twiggy becomes the first youthful 377 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: superstar model. And during this era, though, meanwhile, in the 378 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, black models were used from time to time, 379 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 1: but they were usually featured as something special, as something exotic, 380 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: to borrow a term from a previous episode, and something 381 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: that we still see so often today, which we'll get 382 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: into more details in just a few minutes. Then in 383 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies, we have Eileen Ford, famous from Ford 384 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: Models scouting, Lauren Hutton's quote humane face and Lauren Hunton's 385 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: humane face, which I just love that description, Like what 386 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: is the humane face? All right? Lauren Hunton? Beautiful Lauren Hutton. 387 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy three, she becomes the highest paid model 388 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: in his story or her story, earning two d thousand 389 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: dollars for twenty days work. So it's a big deal. 390 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: I mean, modeling obviously is becoming more and more of 391 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: this high pay kind of thing for some people, for 392 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 1: some people, some people, Like three years later, in ninety six, 393 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: Margot Hemingway and she topped that previous record with a 394 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: one million dollar contract for new new perfumes, so you 395 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: could really smell like a million books. And then in 396 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: the late seventies and early eighties, we have the arrival 397 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 1: of the supermodel, and this is really reflecting globalization, economic 398 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: boom times, and just the general fun times of the era, 399 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: because you have this era of the model as a 400 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: celebrated commodity. If you want to sell something and you 401 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: have twenty dollars that you can spend in one day, 402 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: you hire a supermodel because her globalized beauty ideal is 403 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: guaranteed to get people's attention and show that you fledgling 404 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: brand are with it. That's right. And so in the 405 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: context of the time in the late seventies, that's when 406 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,479 Speaker 1: we first get twice yearly fashion shows that are happening 407 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: in Milan, and this is where models start earning big bucks. 408 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: And this really changed fashion and modeling, make it making 409 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: it way more accessible through media. People are people are shooting, 410 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: photographers are shooting these twice yearly fashion shows. Oh but 411 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: can we also quickly mentioned that Milan in the late 412 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: seventies and early eighties and probably still today for models 413 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: was also just a hotbed of predatory behavior by fashion photographers, 414 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: by would be agents, by wealthy men with lots of cocaine. 415 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: And there was, I mean, there was a lot of 416 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: seed behavior y're going on then and now in terms 417 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: of models constantly being taken advantage of and presented with 418 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: again mountains of cocaine and other drugs and alcohol, and um, 419 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: getting into the industry that way and making a face. 420 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: And this is the same face that I was making 421 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: the entire time I was reading the article that talked 422 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: about the history of this whole not just fashion and 423 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: modeling in general, but specifically the high fashion modeling that 424 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: was happening around Fashion Weeks and specifically Milan. It's also 425 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: freaking creepy. There's a lot of cocaine. There's just a 426 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: lot of cocaine, that's right. Um. But if we talk 427 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: more about the supermodel specifically, the late eighties recession actually 428 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: fueled supermodels becoming these famous consumption objects, making them into 429 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: designer and brand status symbols. Basically, if you could afford 430 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: or appear to afford a face like Christy Turlington's or 431 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: Cindy Crawford's, Caroline Urban's, that's right. Me at five ft 432 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: two for your campaign, it would make you appear to 433 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: be hipper, hotter, more of an object of desire in 434 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: terms of your fashion and what you're selling well. And 435 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 1: at the same time, though, the fact that these specific 436 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,439 Speaker 1: faces were known around the world for their sex appeal, 437 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: this is something termed visual neo colonialism that's taking place. 438 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: It's this globalization of these very specific kinds of beauty standards, 439 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: and really too, with the supermodel era, we have models 440 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: eroticized more than ever before, and along with that the 441 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: whole I mean, there was some truth to it, but 442 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: also some mythology of the supermodel making like who was 443 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: it who wasn't going to get out of bed for 444 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: less than Linda Evangelista? How much would you get out 445 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: of bed for for lots of duckets? You have to 446 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: have a you have to have like the Scrooge McDuck 447 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: swimming pool of gold coins for Evangelista to get out 448 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: of bed. And so it also interestingly flips this original 449 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: script of models, as these almost a step away from 450 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: prostitutes who could only marry into wealth and society too. 451 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: Supermodels as self empowered, hotly pursued sex symbols, but even 452 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: with the supermodels, even with this visual neo colonialism, which 453 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: if the colonialism doesn't tippy off, it's not necessarily a 454 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: good thing. Even with all of these factors, it doesn't 455 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: mean that for everybody else, everyone who is not an 456 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: elite supermodel, that working conditions got any better. Yeah, you're 457 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: basically your trade is the way that you look, the 458 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: way that your body appears. And for instance, the typical 459 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: measurements of models today are sort of out of reach 460 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: for a lot of the population. For women, the typical 461 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: measurements are being at least five foot nine with a 462 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: thirty four inch bust, a twenty four inch waist and 463 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: thirty four inch That's so funny. That's that is me 464 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: like through a perfect All right, we're kidd were quitting podcasting. 465 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to be your agent already. The model it's 466 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: gonna be great. Um. For men, standard sizing is six 467 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: to six ft three with a thirty two inch waist 468 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: and a thirty nine to forty inch chest. All right, 469 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: So I mean so yeah, so you have to fit 470 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: this very specific body type. But you can't just have 471 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: the measurements. That won't cut it. You have to have 472 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: the personality, the reputation beyond the job performance, the look 473 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: that elusive look, a humane face perhaps like Lauren Hutton 474 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: and Michael Gross was the one who wrote about the 475 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: gross sorry uh stuff going on in the modeling industry, 476 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: like at fashion shows in his book Model, The Ugly 477 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: Business of Beautiful Women, and he talks about this whole 478 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: practice of agents trying to lure models to another agency 479 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: and it's disgusting because it's actually makes them sound like 480 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: just I mean, they're just live stock being sold back 481 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: and forth, which is what he says. He says that 482 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: they're sold for bounties and it is a thriving trade. 483 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there was a documentary I don't know if 484 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: it's still on Netflix, but it was called girl Model 485 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: Tracking these Eastern European Girls, I mean, because a lot 486 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: of times you're scouted when you're fourteen years old, and 487 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: it follows a couple of these Eastern European girls in 488 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: their quest for super model edom. And one of them, 489 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: for instance, is sent to a job in Japan, but 490 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: she the agency isn't just sending her there. She actually 491 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: comes back from the shoot in debt because the agency 492 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: was picking up the tab until she could pay them back, 493 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: it said, it's it's a scheezy business a lot of 494 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: the times. Yeah, and that's described as essentially these models 495 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: becoming like indentured servants to their agencies. And it's a 496 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: stuff that Sarah Zif, a form model herself, is trying 497 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: to target through the Model Alliance. She says that there's 498 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: not enough protection for these young girls who are being 499 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: asked to lose weight, to pose nude unexpectedly sometimes, and 500 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: to work all hours. Yeah, and this has to do 501 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: with flimsy child labor laws. I mean, they're kind of 502 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: all over the place. There's been a lot of focus 503 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: in particular on child labor laws in New York City 504 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: just because of fashion weeks there. Um, and there are 505 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: things in place in terms of according to New York law, 506 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: if you are a model under eighteen, you have to 507 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: have say, um time designated for school work and you 508 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: can only work X amount of hours. But during fashion week, 509 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: all of that goes out the window, and sometimes beyond 510 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: fashion week, because if you are so hotly pursuing this industry, 511 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: you're gonna do things that probably do violate these child 512 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: labor laws. Yeah, but then we also see how using 513 00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: these underage models affects the industry, the look, and older 514 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,719 Speaker 1: models and women in general, because the thing is, when 515 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: you're using a girl who's fourteen years old, she's pretty small, 516 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: she hasn't hit puberty yet, she doesn't have hips, boobs 517 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: a waste. And this is coming from the same Nation 518 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: article that talked about the model alliance. But basically, a 519 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: model used to weigh eight percent less than the average woman, 520 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: and now it's twenty three percent less. And this ends 521 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: up putting a lot of pressure on these young girls 522 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: not to grow up. They're being told, well, you've got 523 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: to lose weight, and it's like, how do I lose 524 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: weight when I'm just getting boobs? And it also puts 525 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: a lot of pressure on the older models to starve 526 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: themselves and try to attain this look of young girls. Yeah, 527 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: I mean you can't. It's almost it seems to have 528 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: a shorter lifespan a lot of times than that of 529 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: a professional athlete. And I want this statistic to ring 530 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: clear to any girl listening who's interested in model, who 531 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: wants to grow up to become a model, any parent 532 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: who has a daughter who really wants to grow up 533 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: to be a model. The average income for a model 534 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: these days is thirty two thou dollars with zero benefits, 535 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: and a lot of times what you get paid for 536 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 1: or what what you get paid on a shoot is clothes. 537 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: You just get to keep your clothes. You're like, you're 538 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: like one of the mannequins in the eighteen twenties of 539 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: the Parisian horse races, except you actually get to keep 540 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: the clothes at the end of the day. And a 541 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: lot of times, reflecting how freelance work in general has 542 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: influenced our overall economy, contract work is largely replaced full 543 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: time gigs post recession. So oh man, and I know 544 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: some of these girls who desperately want to be models 545 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: because they've been elevated to these positions of the you know, 546 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: ultimate beauty symbols, and it's I mean it's it's it's 547 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 1: a dead end. A lot of times it is a 548 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: dead end. I mean it's it's almost impossible. You'd have 549 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,399 Speaker 1: better chances winning lottery than becoming a Heidi Clue who 550 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: not only was a successful mom adele, but parlayed that 551 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: career into TV shows, clothing lines, all sorts of amazing stuff, 552 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 1: married seal. There you go. You'd have to yeah, with 553 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: the chances of marrying seal. We want to know what 554 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: are those chances. But even even with regardless of the 555 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: low pay, you still have issues of consent When it 556 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: comes to modeling. Six percent of fashion models have been 557 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 1: asked to pose nude without prior notice, either contractually or informally. 558 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 1: In twenty of them felt pressure to comply in order 559 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: to keep their jobs. Hence fourteen year old brook Shields 560 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: posing naked in a bathtub and then having to go 561 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: through that entire legal fight with that fashion photographer to 562 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: try to get those photographs back, which I mean, and 563 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: that was before the Internet. I mean it would be 564 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 1: impossible now. And former model Patricia sale Beltran wrote about 565 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: this in a two thousand four paper about models feeling 566 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: alienated from their own look, their own image, their own body. 567 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 1: She says that being a successful model means obtaining the 568 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: official degree certificate in beauty, certifying normative compliance and social acceptability. 569 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: These girls and women are expected to project this incredible 570 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 1: self confidence that makes us as the norm e's want 571 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: to buy those clothes, want to aspire to look like 572 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: them and be like them. But they're being paid like 573 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: actresses to look that way, and so really when you 574 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: dig deeper, you find these girls who are literally in 575 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: figuratively starving for help, and they're relying on managers and agents. 576 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: They're insecure, desperately insecure about their physique and maintaining it, 577 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: and by that point they've wrecked their own health to 578 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: achieve it. And we also need to talk about diversity, 579 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 1: because modern modeling has promoted a nearly exclusive ideal of white, slim, 580 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: cis gender heterosexual beauty ideals. And this is important because 581 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: model culture does reflect our collective feelings towards things like class, nationality, race, 582 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: social mobility, gender, proficiency, power, wealth. I mean, it's an 583 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: aspirational look that we're going for, and the aspiration has 584 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: in many ways still is very limited. Yeah, And so 585 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: when you get women of color modeling, they're often portrayed 586 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,760 Speaker 1: as an exotic or ethnic accessory, or they're a musician 587 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,439 Speaker 1: or an athlete or a celebrity, or they're just viewed 588 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: as an object of pity. And even during the Supermodel Heyday, 589 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: Naomi Campbell was not getting as many contracts even still 590 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:45,320 Speaker 1: as her white supermodel counterparts. And progress has been so 591 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: slow and remain problematic in terms of um women of 592 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: color in modeling context. So but quickly, just to show 593 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: how short of a timeline we're even working with for 594 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,240 Speaker 1: black women and women of color to even have any 595 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: space in the modeling industry. It wasn't until the mid 596 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: nineties sixties that Danielle Luna becomes the first black supermodel. 597 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,840 Speaker 1: And chances are you probably haven't even heard of her, 598 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,399 Speaker 1: I mean her, She was unfamiliar to me at the time, 599 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,800 Speaker 1: and the New York magazine article about her initially highlighted 600 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: that of like, hey, you probably don't know this, I 601 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: mean partially because possibly because she died of a drug 602 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 1: overdose at thirty three. Yeah, she became in nineteen sixty 603 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: six British vogues first black cover model, and this is 604 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: during a time when the magazine world really wasn't ready 605 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 1: for photographing beautiful black women. According to that article, and 606 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: a fellow model was quoted as saying, and this is important, 607 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: especially in light of the episode we did on the 608 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 1: exotistization of women of color. But she said that no 609 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: one looked like her. She was really like an extraordinary species. Yeah. 610 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: And Luna preferred to live in Europe with her husband 611 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 1: and their daughter, and she also didn't like to claim 612 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,240 Speaker 1: she was black, she was far likelier to call herself 613 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 1: mulatta or mixed. Yeah, and eight years later, in nineteen 614 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: seventy four, Beverly Johnson, who is more of a household name, 615 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: became the first black model in the cover of American Vogue, 616 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: eight years though between Danielle and Beverly, and this had 617 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: to do with the fact that black models didn't become 618 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: more commonly seen until the seventies. This was partially fueled 619 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,360 Speaker 1: by the Blackest Beautiful movement um but it was also 620 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: cute apparently by this nineteen seventy three event called the 621 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 1: Battle of Versailles, which was a fashion face off between 622 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: American and French designers, and Americans were praised for employing 623 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: eight black models. It's interesting looking back at the nineteen 624 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: sixty nine Life magazine feature which had Naomi Sims on 625 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: its cover with the headline black models take center Stage, 626 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: and it had a centerfold with many many black models 627 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:06,320 Speaker 1: declaring black is busting out all over. But it doesn't 628 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,399 Speaker 1: seem like that. Actually that ball kept rolling, Yeah yeah, 629 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: I mean even today. For example, it wasn't until that 630 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 1: a black model, Veronica Webb, landed a contract with a 631 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 1: major cosmetics company Revlon, and even today thinking about who 632 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: our cover girls are, a lot of times they are white. 633 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you do have today more of the celebrity 634 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: faces Halle Berry, Lupute and Yango, Queen Latifa, who are 635 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: you know getting these cosmetic contracts, but it's still fewer 636 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,839 Speaker 1: and farther between. And then if we look at high 637 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: fashion though and diversity on the catwalk today, because the 638 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: inspiration for this podcast came from New York Fashion Week, 639 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: the awareness of a need for diversity is there, but 640 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:57,840 Speaker 1: the action is still lacking. Yeah. So Jezebel wrote about 641 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,879 Speaker 1: this in terms of New York Fashion Week for Fall winter, 642 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: and they point out that more than seventy eight of 643 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: the models were white, although it is less common for 644 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: designers to use all white casts. But even that doesn't 645 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: really matter because they totally seem to be skating by 646 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: on some token system. Well, we have one Asian girl 647 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 1: and one black girl. That's fine, right, And this is 648 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: something echoed by model Chanel Iman. She says, a few 649 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,320 Speaker 1: times I got excused by designers who told me we 650 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: already found one black girl, we don't need you anymore. 651 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,839 Speaker 1: And it's echoed by fellow model Jordan Donne who said 652 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: I'm normally told I'm canceled because I'm colored. So being 653 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 1: canceled because of my boobs is a minor thing. Yeah, 654 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: I mean, and you think that, oh, well, what does 655 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 1: it matter. I mean, that's high end fashion representation. It 656 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 1: does matter because again today modeling culture and what we 657 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:57,720 Speaker 1: consider beautiful and how these women are posed in advertisements 658 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: and in fashion features, it does reflect what we think 659 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:06,840 Speaker 1: of as being worthy of aspiration and even of eroticizing. 660 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: It is a cycle. Designers pick up on what they 661 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,880 Speaker 1: think is part of the zeitgeist, what they think is 662 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: hip and cool and the best representation for their clothes, 663 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,359 Speaker 1: and then we look to those images and say, okay, 664 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 1: well what's pretty, what's beautiful? Do I want to be 665 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 1: a model? Do I look like them? And also to 666 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: thinking about how they're posed because even still, I mean, 667 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,080 Speaker 1: we're focusing more on like catwalk fashion, but if you 668 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:34,360 Speaker 1: look in fashion magazines, it is highly problematic that a 669 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,400 Speaker 1: lot of times women of color are still portrayed in 670 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 1: in the way that Danielle Luna was described as an 671 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: exotic species. They are often still exotic size rather than 672 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 1: simply being models. So I mean it really seems like 673 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,359 Speaker 1: if we're looking to the modeling industry to be our 674 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 1: bell weather of women's empowerment, we're probably going to be 675 00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: waiting forever because the entire our industry has been built 676 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: on the outright literal objectification of women, literal literal mannequins. So, 677 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,479 Speaker 1: and this goes from men too. We haven't talked about 678 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 1: male modeling except for Hector on the stage. You have 679 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 1: brilliant light. But I mean it was this was an 680 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,360 Speaker 1: eye opener for me. I mean, it's it's easy to 681 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,280 Speaker 1: see that that fashion has some probable metica house books 682 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 1: as a lay person, but when you dig into the 683 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: history it gets pretty intense. Well yeah, those problematic aspects 684 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,319 Speaker 1: are built into the foundation of modeling as we see 685 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,759 Speaker 1: it today. Yea. So I really want to hear from 686 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,120 Speaker 1: listeners on this, especially if you are at all associated 687 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: with a fashion industry or just interested in fashion in general. 688 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,320 Speaker 1: Sort of how do you reconcile all of these things 689 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 1: and is it getting better? Let us know mom Stuff 690 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 1: at house stuff works dot Com is our email address. 691 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,279 Speaker 1: You can also tweet us at mom stuff podcasts or 692 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,840 Speaker 1: messages on Facebook, and we've got a couple of messages 693 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:03,799 Speaker 1: to share with you right now. I have a letter 694 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: here from Mindy responding to our Not Your Average Period 695 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,240 Speaker 1: Panties episode with Julie Seigel. She writes, as an entrepreneur 696 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: myself just starting out, it was very inspiring. I loved 697 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 1: hearing about how Julie got started and how she grew. 698 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,719 Speaker 1: I've come across many challenges myself, such as constantly being 699 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,320 Speaker 1: being ignored by men at multiple small business development centers 700 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,719 Speaker 1: until my male cousin, who also works for an SBDC, 701 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,880 Speaker 1: would ask them to talk to my business partner in me. 702 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 1: So it was helpful to hear how she was able 703 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,799 Speaker 1: to make her company work and focus not on being 704 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:41,080 Speaker 1: a female entrepreneur but just an entrepreneur. My partner and 705 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 1: I have been trying to do the same. That said, 706 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,280 Speaker 1: listening to Julie kept making me think of my sister. 707 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,719 Speaker 1: She did not start her own business technically, but she 708 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 1: did start an amazing charity organization, all while maintaining a 709 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 1: full time job in taking care of her family. When 710 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 1: one of her friends was diagnosed with terminal cancer, she 711 00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:58,719 Speaker 1: wanted to find a way to help him and his family, 712 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,840 Speaker 1: especially since they had young children at home. He eventually 713 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 1: lost his battle, but my sister took that loss and 714 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,799 Speaker 1: turned it into something amazing. She started an organization called 715 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:12,000 Speaker 1: Treasured Time, and their tagline is giving the Gift of Moments. Anyway, 716 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,359 Speaker 1: I would love to hear about other ordinary women doing 717 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: extraordinary things. I'm so proud of my sister and look 718 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:18,640 Speaker 1: up to her, and it would be amazing to hear 719 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,520 Speaker 1: about other such women out there as well. So thank you, Mindy, 720 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,080 Speaker 1: And if you have any suggestions of said ordinary women 721 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,840 Speaker 1: doing extraordinary things you think we should talk to, let 722 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,319 Speaker 1: us know. So I've got a let her hear from 723 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,080 Speaker 1: our Gay best Friends episode, which we have been hearing 724 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,000 Speaker 1: from a lot of listeners about, especially a lot of 725 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,080 Speaker 1: bisexual listeners, including Mark who rights. I'm a buy guy 726 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 1: with a mostly male friend group when I'm not at college. 727 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,759 Speaker 1: My high school was not an okay place to be out, 728 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,200 Speaker 1: so I pretty much stock to a few guy friends 729 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 1: as a typical straight guy, which was okay for me 730 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,880 Speaker 1: because I'm just lucky to be the mostly stereotypically straight 731 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,200 Speaker 1: as far as personality and interest. After graduating, I came 732 00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 1: out to them and they were all support WATI. Thank 733 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,880 Speaker 1: you Internet culture. So I have eight super close relationships 734 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:08,160 Speaker 1: with straight males. Honestly, though, anything involving my sexuality never 735 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 1: comes up. I've only brought it up a couple of times, 736 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,120 Speaker 1: and it was pretty awkward, not because they were uncomfortable, 737 00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,000 Speaker 1: but because no one can relate and no one has 738 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,040 Speaker 1: anything on which to comment, so the conversation kind of stops. 739 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,440 Speaker 1: My favorite response so far, and one of the reasons 740 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:26,120 Speaker 1: that my friends are awesome was dude, getting some is 741 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,880 Speaker 1: getting some. This lack of relatability paradigm has been the 742 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:34,000 Speaker 1: defining factor of my experience in college. Now. As for 743 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,560 Speaker 1: a qualm that Mark had with our Gay best Friends podcasts, 744 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 1: he writes, I'm by and it really irked me that 745 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,880 Speaker 1: you summed of the description of studies about non straight 746 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,360 Speaker 1: males as gay males. No, it does not mean that 747 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,240 Speaker 1: in the study probably explicitly used that term to avoid 748 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 1: excluding the wide range of males who are neither gay 749 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,120 Speaker 1: nor straight. I definitely understand that being politically correct all 750 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,520 Speaker 1: the time is more limiting than beneficial, but please just 751 00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 1: be aware of non mainstream sexual all these being ignored 752 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,280 Speaker 1: and forgotten is a real issue, and so get again 753 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,080 Speaker 1: podcast listeners, we have a request for an episode on 754 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,040 Speaker 1: bisexual erasure. So it looks like we're going to have 755 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,320 Speaker 1: to do it now that we wouldn't want to anyway, 756 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 1: But we appreciate all of your suggestions letting us know 757 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,360 Speaker 1: the things that we need to talk about and that 758 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,520 Speaker 1: are on your mind, So keep the ideas and stories coming. 759 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,000 Speaker 1: Mom stuff at how stuff works dot com is our 760 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 1: email address and for links to all of our social 761 00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,279 Speaker 1: media as well as all of our blogs, videos, and 762 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,080 Speaker 1: podcast with this one. If you want to learn more 763 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:34,040 Speaker 1: about the fascinating history of fashion modeling, head on over 764 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:39,920 Speaker 1: to stuff Mom Never Told You dot Com were on 765 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,479 Speaker 1: those and thousands of other topics because it how stuff 766 00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:43,200 Speaker 1: works dot com