Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy zef invest start
Speaker 1: changing it with the Betel Cast. Oh okay, this is
Speaker 1: the Bechdel Cast. Hello, Wow, it's me Caitlin Deronto. I
Speaker 1: was just saying, how I don't have an intro for
Speaker 1: this one because this movie is just so flummixing flummixing. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is a movie that we just stated off Mike.
Speaker 1: It truly stumped us. It defeated the show. Every time
Speaker 1: I thought I was approaching a perspective for a point,
Speaker 1: it was blown up by the scene that happened afterwards
Speaker 1: where I'm like, well, I guess um, that is technically
Speaker 1: a lot of agency. That's be There's just when you
Speaker 1: think you understand what's going on in this movie that
Speaker 1: I didn't even know existed until are returning wonderful guest
Speaker 1: Princess Weeks brought it to us. Yeah, well, I was like,
Speaker 1: wild things could be about anything could be. It could
Speaker 1: be a kids movie, could be the opposite of a
Speaker 1: kids movie, which is what it is. Certainly that Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, wait, let's start the show. Sorry, this
Speaker 1: is like in a good way. It felt good. It
Speaker 1: felt like someone stepping on your back. Okay, So this
Speaker 1: is the bucktele Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante, my
Speaker 1: name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast where
Speaker 1: we take your favorite movies and look at it from
Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens. And today, boy do we have
Speaker 1: a challenge because today we are covering the movie Wild
Speaker 1: Things from the year Uh is it night? A neo
Speaker 1: noir thriller film featuring um Are you just reading from Wikipedia?
Speaker 1: I thank you so much. I use exactly three words
Speaker 1: from Wikipedia there. Uh, but it's a it's a it's
Speaker 1: a sexy Florida movie where everything that can happen does?
Speaker 1: Can we just get into it? Because I like, I
Speaker 1: we gotta get our guested here, Like it's kind of urgent. Yeah.
Speaker 1: If if you want to know what the Bechtel test is,
Speaker 1: listen to the beginning of another episode. Honestly, we don't
Speaker 1: have time. We don't have time today. There's so much happening. Yes,
Speaker 1: let's just dive right in. Uh by introducing our guest
Speaker 1: first and foremost, she's a YouTuber and pop culture writer.
Speaker 1: You remember her from our episode on Space Jam It's
Speaker 1: Princess Week solo. I'm so copy back. So I got
Speaker 1: to infect you with this like glorious dumpster fire movie.
Speaker 1: Things will never be the same. It's like Nev Campbell
Speaker 1: has never been hotter. But also it's like it's giving
Speaker 1: so much gay confusion right now, so I have to
Speaker 1: we have to discuss. We simply must. And that there
Speaker 1: was there was another scene removed where Matt Dylan and
Speaker 1: Kevin Bacon hook up and they could Yeah, I know
Speaker 1: that was going to be one of the million things
Speaker 1: that happens in the last twenty minutes of the movie.
Speaker 1: I wanted it. Once I knew it was missing, I
Speaker 1: wanted it back. Anyways, we'll get Princess. How did this
Speaker 1: movie come into your life? I am genuinely so curious.
Speaker 1: What's your history? So I was on a horror podcast
Speaker 1: um with writer Adam Sass and queer intellectual Dana Pioli,
Speaker 1: and they mentioned the kiss between Nev Campbell and Denise
Speaker 1: Richard's in this movie being an Awakening, And I was
Speaker 1: just scrolling down the pandemic you know tubes, and I
Speaker 1: saw the movie. I'm like, oh, hey, here's that movie
Speaker 1: about that thing, and then I just started watching it
Speaker 1: for shifts and then every time I thought I understood
Speaker 1: what was happening, I was like what. And it's like
Speaker 1: so many twists, so many turns, and yet the movie
Speaker 1: is under two hours. Honestly, Yeah, that's what makes is
Speaker 1: so amazing. Like you're like, thirty minutes in this happens
Speaker 1: like you're just like it's it's a masterpiece of a mess.
Speaker 1: I still don't know how to define any of it.
Speaker 1: But when you were like, what movie do you want
Speaker 1: to watch? And I was like, we have to talk
Speaker 1: about this. I have to bring the ultimate feminist challenge
Speaker 1: to the Oh I'm ready. I'm very ready that Like
Speaker 1: I Caitlin, do you have history with this movie? I'm
Speaker 1: truly I like this is with with this kind of cast.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised that it I've never heard of it before. Yeah.
Speaker 1: My history is that I've known of the movie for
Speaker 1: a very long time. It's been on my ad are
Speaker 1: probably since it came out, because I was twelve when
Speaker 1: it came out, too young to like have seen it
Speaker 1: in theaters, but like I think my friends watched did
Speaker 1: it sleepovers? Like It's been on my radar since since
Speaker 1: its inception or conception whatever. Sorry if our listeners not
Speaker 1: familiar with the movie Inception. That was the famous fart
Speaker 1: noise from Inception. It is almost as iconic as the
Speaker 1: women in this movie, but yet not. It's true con
Speaker 1: Zummer could not top what Nev Campbell and Thanks Truths
Speaker 1: are doing here. So true. So I've known about it
Speaker 1: for a long time. It's been on my list of
Speaker 1: things to watch for a long time. But again, as
Speaker 1: I mentioned recently, because we've been covering a lot of
Speaker 1: erotic thrillers lately, it's just a genre that I never
Speaker 1: seek out. So knowing what it was, I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not in the mood for this, so I just
Speaker 1: kept putting off and putting it off. It gets referenced
Speaker 1: in an episode of Pen fifteen. There's it's referenced constantly.
Speaker 1: There's like so many like pop culture references to this movie,
Speaker 1: particularly the pool scene, the kiss that you were talking
Speaker 1: about being an awakening for a lot of people. Um,
Speaker 1: and I've seen that scene before, but I had never
Speaker 1: watched it all the way through until about a year ago.
Speaker 1: I have a couple of friends of mine and I
Speaker 1: made like to do lists were like ten things we
Speaker 1: want to accomplish in the next year, and I made
Speaker 1: my very just you wait, uh, it's you thought you
Speaker 1: knew what my history of this movie is going to be.
Speaker 1: Let's full of twists and turns, just like the movie
Speaker 1: wild So my list I wanted to fill it with
Speaker 1: things that were extremely achievable so as not to um,
Speaker 1: you know, like disappoint myself or have unrealistic expectations. So
Speaker 1: one of the things on the list was watch Wild Things. Yes,
Speaker 1: I finally did. It accomplished my goal. Um So, I
Speaker 1: saw it for the first time about a year ago,
Speaker 1: was just completely blown away by how wild the movie is.
Speaker 1: I mean wild Things more like wild movie. Amazing joke, Caitlin,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. An extremely wild movie should have
Speaker 1: been the name of the sequel, of which there are
Speaker 1: three or four there are There's It's a franchise, There's
Speaker 1: a wild Thing franchise. Of course none of them start
Speaker 1: anyone nearly as iconic. But it's just like, wow, it
Speaker 1: got a sequel, It got well sequel. I didn't look
Speaker 1: into the sequels, but I'm okay, I start to figure
Speaker 1: but who with this movie? I mean I guess if
Speaker 1: your franchise is just based on twist after twist after
Speaker 1: twist every like two minutes, that's an excite hitting franchise
Speaker 1: to build on and it doesn't have to make sense. No, Okay,
Speaker 1: So here's a pitch I have for maybe like a reboot.
Speaker 1: So the Susie character, the Neough Campbell character, she's at home,
Speaker 1: she's misbehaving, she gets sent to bed without dinner, and
Speaker 1: then escapes into a fantasy world where she plots to
Speaker 1: murder her high school guidance counselor and his secret detective friend.
Speaker 1: And she also kisses her hot classmate and then everyone
Speaker 1: gets murdered except for Susie. It's called Where the Wild
Speaker 1: Things Are Wish we got there? I like it, genius.
Speaker 1: This is why you should take her screenwriting class, Ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen. Um, there's the plug book. Well, um, So anyway,
Speaker 1: that is my history with the movie. And then I've
Speaker 1: watched it twice to pret for this episode. I still
Speaker 1: feel like I don't know anything that happened in the movie,
Speaker 1: because I've never been more excited for a recap. I know, Jamie,
Speaker 1: what about you? What's your relationship? If any? Absolutely nothing
Speaker 1: I just let this movie wash over me. I had
Speaker 1: to watch it twice because the first time I felt
Speaker 1: like I went into a full body shock and I
Speaker 1: couldn't process what was going on. Just it's so like
Speaker 1: it is peak cast. Do we ever find out why
Speaker 1: Bill Murray's wearing a neck brace? Do we ever? Like
Speaker 1: I was, I did not expect Daphne Rubin Vega, who
Speaker 1: is in the original Broadway cast of Rent, to be
Speaker 1: in this movie. Just a lot of nineties treats for
Speaker 1: Jamie and this movie. I don't know what was going
Speaker 1: on the first time. The second time, I feel like
Speaker 1: I have five hundred pages of notes, all of which
Speaker 1: are questions. I yeah, that's my history. I was just
Speaker 1: uh huh, and I can't wait to talk about it.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, shall we get into it with the recap? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Good luck, I know. I was like, I do love
Speaker 1: how it begins with sex and then crime. I was
Speaker 1: trying to think of another phrase. I my comedy brain
Speaker 1: was not working, but I was like, there's got to
Speaker 1: be a bunch of like fun phrases to do that
Speaker 1: exact setup for like fun word followed by terrifying words
Speaker 1: like food poisoning. There you go there you go. I
Speaker 1: was literally staring at my computer for two minutes. I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I guess that's the only way to do that. It's
Speaker 1: like it's like bread intolerance, you know. It's like, see
Speaker 1: you guys both have one. It's going to hit me
Speaker 1: like an hour from now, and it's gonna suck. Please
Speaker 1: let us know as soon as you got one. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going to start by giving content trigger warning because
Speaker 1: this movie deals with rape, sexual assault, violence toward and
Speaker 1: murder of women, false rape accusations, sexual relationships between adults
Speaker 1: and high school students. I feel like the list goes
Speaker 1: on extraction with pliers. Don't it's triggering to you? Yeah? Right.
Speaker 1: I love how this movie is still explaining to you
Speaker 1: what the what happened during the credits. It's great, such
Speaker 1: a weird choice. Um. But all this to say, the
Speaker 1: recap and our discussion will heavily involve all of these
Speaker 1: potentially triggering things, just so everyone is aware at the top. Okay,
Speaker 1: So we are in Blue Bay, Florida, which seems to
Speaker 1: be a pretty wealthy community not too far from the Everglades. Um,
Speaker 1: we see the glades, we see alligators. You think alligators
Speaker 1: are going to pay off in some way. They never do.
Speaker 1: We cut to a high school campus where the guidance
Speaker 1: counselor Mr. Lombardo say, I'm Lombardo played by Matt Dylan.
Speaker 1: Good character name, good movie name, Sam, that's a great name.
Speaker 1: My note for him is that he looks like Luke Perry,
Speaker 1: and that made me sad. What does a bit? But also,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if Matt Dylan is attractive. I
Speaker 1: don't find him to be attractive to me. He looks
Speaker 1: too much like my brother. But also in addition to that,
Speaker 1: I don't think he's attractive. Her brother looks like Matt
Speaker 1: Dylon came a little bit. Jamie's like, all right, Harry Goes.
Speaker 1: But the whole movie is like so many people want
Speaker 1: to have sex with Matt Dylan, and I just I'm
Speaker 1: just like, what do why whole families? When I have
Speaker 1: sex with Magelon? It's wild? This might be a silly question, Um,
Speaker 1: what is Matt Dylan most famous for? Well, because every
Speaker 1: time I see him, I'm like, I know he's famous,
Speaker 1: but I don't know for what reason. Oh? Yes, well,
Speaker 1: he was a teen idol and he was in several
Speaker 1: things so he started off as like a young actor
Speaker 1: who grew in to more popularity. He's actually been nominated
Speaker 1: for an Oscar and a Grammy. What a Grammy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he basically has just had a very prolific career. Like
Speaker 1: he was in There Something about Mary, he was in
Speaker 1: On the Road. He did an audiobook for that, which
Speaker 1: I think he got numinated for Best Spoken Word Album.
Speaker 1: He was in Crash, a terrible movie, but yeah, is
Speaker 1: that still a movie? Still? An Oscar winning movie, Dark Times,
Speaker 1: and then he was in You. I'm like, looking at
Speaker 1: his filmography, I'm like, oh right, you mean dupree? I
Speaker 1: hate that that jumped out at me. Is like that movie.
Speaker 1: I think. Most famously, he was in The Outsiders, like
Speaker 1: the eight three version. Okay, okay, he's an Outsider's boy,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, And that's pretty much. It's it's
Speaker 1: like him st Bos, Tom Cruise, you know, every heart
Speaker 1: Throne of the eighties. It's like, here you go have
Speaker 1: a movie. It's crazy Macchio. Wow, I've never seen The
Speaker 1: Outsiders either. That's uh, that's my confession. It's by our
Speaker 1: boy f C C. Frances O f f CC Francis
Speaker 1: Ford Coppola. I wonder if that would be worth covering
Speaker 1: on the show anyway. Sam Lombardo is the guidance counselor.
Speaker 1: He's holding an assembly about sex crimes for the senior class,
Speaker 1: one of whom is Kelly Van Ryan played by Denise Richards.
Speaker 1: Sam invites Detective Duquette played by Kevin Bacon, and at
Speaker 1: a certain point I do start to call him Detective
Speaker 1: Bacon in my notes. So just so as you're aware
Speaker 1: of that that weapon, um. So, Detective Bacon and Detective
Speaker 1: Perez played by Daphne ruben Vega are invited to stage
Speaker 1: to speak about sex crimes. This upsets another student, Susie
Speaker 1: played by Nev Campbell. She seems to hate Detective Bacon,
Speaker 1: and we will soon learn that Susie and Kelly hate
Speaker 1: each other. It also starts with like him offering students,
Speaker 1: rides home in his jeep like he's a slimeball from
Speaker 1: from the jump. Yes, so what happens? I know it's
Speaker 1: but no. Yeah, So after school, Kelly comes up to Mr.
Speaker 1: Lombardo while he's teaching boat class. Question mark his whole thing.
Speaker 1: He loves boats. He's not like other guidance counselors. No,
Speaker 1: he's a cool guys counselor in Miami who Fox inappropriate
Speaker 1: the goddess counsel who Fox and loves boats. So Kelly
Speaker 1: seems to be especially like familiar and flirty with Mr
Speaker 1: Lombardo and she's like, let me come over and wash
Speaker 1: your jeep this weekend and he's like, I don't know
Speaker 1: about that, and she's like, give me a ride home
Speaker 1: and he's like uh, So he does give her a
Speaker 1: ride home. We see the huge house that she lives in,
Speaker 1: We meet her mom, Sandro van Ryan. Oh. We meet
Speaker 1: her in the most spectacular way possible when she's having
Speaker 1: sex with the pool guy, and that happens in US
Speaker 1: a later scene. But sorry, we do, I guess we
Speaker 1: do technically. Sorry, That's how That's how I felt her debut. Truly,
Speaker 1: what an incredible scene picking up your landline phone while
Speaker 1: having sex with pool boy, just wild stuff. She answers
Speaker 1: the phone because she's in the middle of having sex,
Speaker 1: so she goes hello acting acting. She's Strasbourg trained, look
Speaker 1: out for her so she's not having sex in this scene.
Speaker 1: But she comes out. She's like, hey, Sam Lombardo, kiss
Speaker 1: kiss and he's like, oh my, And then I'm why
Speaker 1: do so many people want to have sex with Matt
Speaker 1: Dylan confusing? So so then Kelly and her friend wash
Speaker 1: Mr Lombardo's jeep, but it's all a ploy for Kelly
Speaker 1: to go in and seduce Mr Lombardo and then it
Speaker 1: kind of cuts away. We don't really know what happens,
Speaker 1: although it seems like he's not interested. And then Kelly
Speaker 1: tells her mom the Mr Lombardo raped her. So Kelly
Speaker 1: and her mom, Sandra, go to the police and report
Speaker 1: the rape to Detective Bacon and Detective Perez. This is
Speaker 1: twist number one that I absolutely did not see coming. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: So Kelly gives a statement about the rape. She tells
Speaker 1: them a particular thing that Mr Lombardo said about I
Speaker 1: don't even want to repeat it in the recap because
Speaker 1: it's really gross, But she says a particular line um,
Speaker 1: which also is an indicator that there is no physical
Speaker 1: evidence um. Detective Perez, because there's no physical evidence, thinks
Speaker 1: that Kelly is making this story up. Very not feminist
Speaker 1: of her. It's very un true, right, It's like, why,
Speaker 1: of of course the only comp that's a woman is
Speaker 1: given that perspective. And also I feel like that was
Speaker 1: one of the in in one of the least realistic
Speaker 1: movies ever produced. UM Cops immediately not believing someone felt
Speaker 1: authentic kind of The only thing that tracks about the
Speaker 1: entire movie is the way that cops behave. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: film is very a cab like. It's very like at
Speaker 1: the end of it, you're like, oh, we don't trust anybody.
Speaker 1: All authority is bad. Probably the working class, everyone except
Speaker 1: Nev Campbell deserves to die exactly. Only the working classes
Speaker 1: should survive, is what Well thinks. Is yeah, true, true,
Speaker 1: but you know, the kind of the other people who
Speaker 1: have heard Kelly's statement aren't sure because Sam has a
Speaker 1: reputation of being easy. So Sam knows that this accusation
Speaker 1: is going to be very difficult to recover him. His
Speaker 1: reputation will be tarnished, and he's worried he won't be
Speaker 1: able to find a lawyer willing to go up against
Speaker 1: the Van Ryan family since they're very rich and powerful
Speaker 1: in the community. But he does find a lawyer, Ken
Speaker 1: Bowden or Bowden, his name is pronounced differently in every scene.
Speaker 1: Um played by Bill Murray in the weirdest casting choice
Speaker 1: I've ever seen, baffling, Why is Bill Murray in the
Speaker 1: movie Wild Things, and why is he wearing a neck
Speaker 1: brace and why won't he tell us? I think it's
Speaker 1: implied that he's wearing it to collect on insurance money
Speaker 1: that he doesn't actually deserve, because he says something like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't have to wear this all the time, but
Speaker 1: there was an insurance guy here earlier. That's my guess.
Speaker 1: It's the perfect crime, so can the lawyer is just like,
Speaker 1: don't worry, Sam, if you didn't do it, you have
Speaker 1: nothing to worry about. But we see Sam Lombardo being
Speaker 1: more and more rejected by the community. He's like banned
Speaker 1: from the country club. He's run off the road by
Speaker 1: this guy, Frankie, the pool guy who Sandra van Ryan
Speaker 1: was having sex with in my favorite part of the movie.
Speaker 1: And then when I was looking up um it was
Speaker 1: another I was a writer from the Ringers favorite part
Speaker 1: of the movie as well. I felt very validated Um
Speaker 1: in the scene where he's run off the road into
Speaker 1: the glades basically, and then it's it's very bizarre, like
Speaker 1: the pool that comes out. He's like, are you okay?
Speaker 1: And then I'll be fine and that he gets punched
Speaker 1: in the face, cut to a surprised raccoon, Like, I know,
Speaker 1: that is one of the best scenes in any cinema.
Speaker 1: That raccoon is a genius. And then they faced the
Speaker 1: black on the raccoon. It's so good, perfect editing choice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like that had to have been some sort
Speaker 1: of editing pickle they were in were like, we didn't
Speaker 1: get a good punch or something like that. They're like,
Speaker 1: we do have the bureau of that raccoon and it
Speaker 1: looks it's it's great. Never underestimate a shot of a
Speaker 1: wild animal. You know, that's the wildest thing in the movie.
Speaker 1: If you ask me, wild things were like wild raccoon. Alright,
Speaker 1: really really great. Okay, So meanwhile, the detectives have begun
Speaker 1: investigating this allegation. They go to talk to Susie That's
Speaker 1: Enough Campbell again, who tells them that Sam Lombardo also
Speaker 1: raped her about a year prior, and she says that
Speaker 1: Sam Lombardo said the same line that Kelly had said
Speaker 1: Sam told her right, So that kind of corroborates their
Speaker 1: stories and it makes the detectives think that, oh, this
Speaker 1: this did happen. So they arrest Sam Lombardo and he
Speaker 1: gets thrown in jail. We then cut to the trial
Speaker 1: where Kelly and Susie give their testimonies. But during Susie's testimony,
Speaker 1: she reveals that Sam Lombardo did not rape her or Kelly.
Speaker 1: This was all for revenge. Susie's motivation is that Sam
Speaker 1: Lombardo and Susie used to be friends, but then he
Speaker 1: wasn't there for her when she was arrested and sent
Speaker 1: to Juvie, and so she's retaliating against him for that.
Speaker 1: Kelly is in love with him and got really jealous
Speaker 1: when she found out that he was having sex with
Speaker 1: her mom. So this whole thing is a revenge plot
Speaker 1: and it was all Kelly's idea. According to Susie, I
Speaker 1: had to rewind a couple of times to be like, now,
Speaker 1: hold on, what is the plan here? And I want
Speaker 1: to say, like the plot is so like Gillian Flynn.
Speaker 1: I can just see her as like a young woman
Speaker 1: watching this movie and like this is good ship. I
Speaker 1: can work with that. I can work with this. And
Speaker 1: I just like and like Nev Campbell is like acting
Speaker 1: so well how to stay like her eyes are all
Speaker 1: red and water and I'm like, girl, you were giving
Speaker 1: a very a plus performance in this be movie and
Speaker 1: it just elevates everything because you just believe her, and
Speaker 1: like Denise Richards is just sitting there, just seething with
Speaker 1: her like beautiful face, just like you bitch, and it's like,
Speaker 1: it's just like, uh, it's so. It's so the fact
Speaker 1: that nev Campbell could get those lines out and emote
Speaker 1: at the same time was I was just like, wow, egot,
Speaker 1: she she deserves it. She deserves it all. Because I
Speaker 1: could not even take that information into my head as
Speaker 1: it was being said to me. It was it was
Speaker 1: a symphony. It was wild. And then I also looked
Speaker 1: at I was like, how old were I looked it
Speaker 1: up to. Yeah, so it's like the age difference between
Speaker 1: Denise Richards and Magdalen in reality is like six or
Speaker 1: seven years. They're all it's it's all very like, which
Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, I'm glad they did not cast
Speaker 1: actual children in this movie because it's disturbing even like
Speaker 1: on its face. But I was just like something, it
Speaker 1: just it felt very c W two be in the
Speaker 1: way that I was like, what anyways, Yeah, it's yeah,
Speaker 1: because Denise is twenty seven and Nive is twenty five,
Speaker 1: and usually when you watch films like that. Everyone is
Speaker 1: staged and looks much older. They both look super young.
Speaker 1: They were like in their like early twenties, and I'm
Speaker 1: like seven. She looks great. I mean, she looks great now. Um,
Speaker 1: I love her. Is her name pronounced nive. I've been
Speaker 1: saying Nev Campbell. I have no idea which one it is.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I pronounced things badly, so I'm star doing.
Speaker 1: I'm just sad. What do you say, Caitlin? Nev? Then
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna do that then, but I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if that's correct. I guess we've covered movies with her.
Speaker 1: Is there's sometimes when I don't know how to say
Speaker 1: an actor's name, most usually Wynn McGregor. I just like,
Speaker 1: I just yeah, I think I think you're right, Caitlin,
Speaker 1: because on on her pronunciation thing it's like and eat
Speaker 1: and V. So then I'm guessing it's nev ne Okay,
Speaker 1: Well Nev, I'm sure you're listening and got it right. Okay,
Speaker 1: So we get this big reveal, this big twist that
Speaker 1: these rape allegations are false and it was all a
Speaker 1: big revenge plot and it was all Kelly's idea. So
Speaker 1: now Sam Lombardo can file a lawsuit against the Van
Speaker 1: Ryan family for perjury. So they settle out of court
Speaker 1: and Sam gets a ton of money from it, something
Speaker 1: like eight point five million dollars. And this is very
Speaker 1: upsetting to Kelly because her mom is breaking her trust
Speaker 1: to pay off Sam. So there's this scene where she
Speaker 1: like throws things at him and she's like, I hate you,
Speaker 1: You're the worst. And and then that's only halfway through
Speaker 1: the movie, so like, what else could even happen? Just
Speaker 1: you wait, we cut two Sam at this motel where
Speaker 1: he's been saying Kelly is there, and we're like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: she's going to get revenge on him. But twist, Kelly
Speaker 1: and Sam Lombardo are having an affair and they plotted
Speaker 1: this whole thing together to set up Kelly's mom, Sandra Dune.
Speaker 1: Then and guess who else is there? Susie Done. Where
Speaker 1: was the inception soundtrack for this, because that would have
Speaker 1: been very satisfying if Susie walks in and it's just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I gasp or like remember in Rogue one the trailer
Speaker 1: when they're like either if guys would have been great?
Speaker 1: I truely I gasped when I mean, at first, I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, okay, that's the twist. Denise and Matt
Speaker 1: are in on it together, Okay, But then when Nev
Speaker 1: Campbell comes in the room, I was like, okay, this
Speaker 1: movie is And that's like less than halfway through the movie.
Speaker 1: It's like they can't, they can't maintain this, but then
Speaker 1: they do. But then here's my brilliant observation about this movie.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my gosh, it has so many twists.
Speaker 1: What is it a Saw movie exactly? And for more
Speaker 1: of that, you can listen to our new Saw episode
Speaker 1: on the Matreon Wow plug Alert game over. And you
Speaker 1: know what, as a patron, I can say, it's worth
Speaker 1: the money. Thank you, says oh my gosh, just lady
Speaker 1: supporting ladies. Wow, solidarity simply what we do. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm like Mimi and from Rent in this movie. Although
Speaker 1: although technically she was right, she's like, I don't trust
Speaker 1: this this white girl, and I'm like, oh man, but
Speaker 1: it sucks that she's right. There are a lot of
Speaker 1: ways to like because I was I was thinking about
Speaker 1: that too, where it's like like there's so many ways
Speaker 1: to view that thing where it's like she is right
Speaker 1: to disbelieve this spoiled, rich white girl. But then also
Speaker 1: she's a cop, and you're just like like it, um,
Speaker 1: this one's a brain breaker. But also she is right.
Speaker 1: But she's right, she saw right through the scheme. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Susie is there, Kelly is there, Sam is there.
Speaker 1: They're all working together. They're going to split the money
Speaker 1: three ways. Then they all start kissing each other. They
Speaker 1: have a threesome, but after that night they can't be
Speaker 1: seen together because people will catch on to their scheme.
Speaker 1: We then cut to the detectives. They're feeling silly from
Speaker 1: being duped by Susie and Kelly, and Detective Bacon is
Speaker 1: like starting to piece things together that this might be
Speaker 1: a setup for Sam the teens to get a big
Speaker 1: pay day. Um. So Detective Bacon goes to question Kelly
Speaker 1: and then later Susie and they're both like, um, I
Speaker 1: don't know what you're talking about. I just feel like
Speaker 1: I don't know. I was just like it's such a
Speaker 1: huge risk for it's specially Susie, where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: all you have to do is ruin your life potentially
Speaker 1: and open yourself up to public. The public scrutiny of
Speaker 1: and if everything goes off according to plan, then you'll
Speaker 1: get like a couple of million dollars, which is like,
Speaker 1: I mean, that fucking rules. But there's so many things
Speaker 1: had to line up for that to happen. Especially first,
Speaker 1: I was just I was just concerned about Susie the
Speaker 1: whole time, because I'm like, she's she is the vulnerable
Speaker 1: one of the three, and she starts freaking out about
Speaker 1: the whole thing. She goes over to Kelly's house. Kelly
Speaker 1: calls Sam. They have a private conversation where they're worried
Speaker 1: that Susie is gonna blow this for them, so Sam
Speaker 1: ominously says, well, if she gets out of line, I'll
Speaker 1: handle it right. And then because Susie is upset, she
Speaker 1: and Kelly get into a fight. They're like slapping each other.
Speaker 1: They fall into the pool they're trying to drown each other.
Speaker 1: But then this fight turns sexy and they start having
Speaker 1: a heavy makeout session, which I think is the scene
Speaker 1: that the movie is most famous for. Meanwhile, Detective Bacon
Speaker 1: is nearby spying on them and videotaping them, so for him,
Speaker 1: this is more proof that Sam, Susie, and Kelly are
Speaker 1: including in this scheme together narc No. So one night,
Speaker 1: Susie and Kelly and Sam go to the beach and
Speaker 1: Susie is really drunk and Sam kills Susie and buries
Speaker 1: her body in the glades or does he or does he?
Speaker 1: It reminds we have one of you guys were doing.
Speaker 1: Black Swan is like or is it? Black Swan wishes
Speaker 1: it could reach the narrative Heights of wild Things, so
Speaker 1: not long for this. Detective Bacon finds the spot where
Speaker 1: this murder took place, and he finds some teeth, but
Speaker 1: he's not yet sure if any crime was actually committed
Speaker 1: or like what happened, or if they are Susie's teeth.
Speaker 1: Detective Perez, on the other hand, thinks that Susie probably
Speaker 1: just ran away to l A like she said she
Speaker 1: was going to, and then Perez is tasked with keeping
Speaker 1: an eye on Sam, who invites her into his hotel
Speaker 1: room to show her Kelly's school file, which does seem
Speaker 1: like some kind of hippa or something violation. Yes, not much,
Speaker 1: that's definitely not professional. Yeah, not professional. Also not professional
Speaker 1: as him sleeping with his students. Very gross. I love,
Speaker 1: I know that he works at like a fancy private school,
Speaker 1: but he had I was like, a guidance counselor has
Speaker 1: that house. He's so rich, must be from money or something.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't think that that is a
Speaker 1: guidance counselor salary house, especially not in Florida. I feel
Speaker 1: like where they don't pay educators particularly well, right, I'm
Speaker 1: like it should it should be every guidance counselor doing
Speaker 1: their job well should live in a palatial estate. But
Speaker 1: an have a boat and have a boat. Why how
Speaker 1: does he this? This perpetuates the narrative that guidance counselors
Speaker 1: have boat money, which they should, but they don't. They don't, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: So he's showing his students files to Detective Perez and
Speaker 1: then he and Detective Prez almost kiss, but then he's like,
Speaker 1: I gotta go by. Meanwhile, Detective Bacon pays Kelly a visit.
Speaker 1: He claims to protect her because he thinks that Sam
Speaker 1: is going to kill her. Next I think, I'm not
Speaker 1: really sure what the motive was here, but there's a
Speaker 1: struggle that we can't totally see. We hear gunshots and
Speaker 1: then Detective Bacon comes back outside. He's been shot in
Speaker 1: the arm and Kelly has been fatally shot. He gives
Speaker 1: a statement saying that he had to shoot her in
Speaker 1: self defense, but even so, he is fired from the force.
Speaker 1: We then cut to Sam Lombardo on a beach. He's chilling,
Speaker 1: he's got his millions. Uh. He goes into his hotel
Speaker 1: and who is there but Detective Kevin Bacon and his bacon.
Speaker 1: What an artful turn. It's just yes, incredible, the way
Speaker 1: he casually turns we see his penis. I don't know why,
Speaker 1: because they've done everything but full frontal at this point.
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I was like, oh my, I
Speaker 1: felt very old because we're still we still like I
Speaker 1: remember the first time I saw it. I was like
Speaker 1: laying on my couch and I was like, is that
Speaker 1: Kevin Bacon's favors? I was like, I texted so many people.
Speaker 1: I was like, did you know about this? Did you
Speaker 1: know about the pain? It's like it was such a surprise.
Speaker 1: It was just so like you said, casually done. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then they were supposed to make out. I'm like,
Speaker 1: so we could have had Kevin's bacon and Matt Dallen's
Speaker 1: for like, come on, guys, and and after all we've
Speaker 1: been through watching Wild Things, we deserved it. I feel
Speaker 1: like we earned it, as viewers did. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought that that was because, like I mean, I
Speaker 1: feel like full frontal scenes are treated so like tight shot,
Speaker 1: like we did it, and this was just so casual,
Speaker 1: like blinking you'd miss it. But also you know, hot
Speaker 1: and thrilling and confusing, because this movie is all three
Speaker 1: of those things. Okay, So Kevin Bacon shows his dick
Speaker 1: in movies. I think all the time. He really I
Speaker 1: didn't know he was known for that. I think Caitlin's dropping.
Speaker 1: What else have you seen Kevin Bacon's penis? I feel
Speaker 1: like we're having I seen Kevin. I'm googling it, but
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that. Okay, So he's in a movie
Speaker 1: called Hall Old Man, which I think you see his
Speaker 1: penis in. I'm gonna regret this google search. I know,
Speaker 1: I know, I'm like furiously Okay, here's something from cinema
Speaker 1: blend dot com entitled why movies need more penises according
Speaker 1: to Kevin Bacon. Oh my gosh, Kevin Bacon on male
Speaker 1: nuditian movies. Gentlemen, It's time to free the Bacon. Uh wow,
Speaker 1: six degrees of Kevin Bacon takes on a whole new meaning.
Speaker 1: Now wow, that's like pretty fucking cool. He said this
Speaker 1: in somewhat recently, but still we want to be naked too,
Speaker 1: Thanks Kevin. Sure, Kevin. Now, not to bring up the minions,
Speaker 1: but we are talking about Kevin. Where is this going,
Speaker 1: Oh Kevin, Okay, the Kevin connection. Yes, six degrees of
Speaker 1: Kevin Bacon. Um, Kevin the Minion and Kevin Bacon are
Speaker 1: separated by only by zero degrees because they're both named Kevin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're part of the grand tradition of Kevin's in film exactly,
Speaker 1: Kevin Klein, Kevin Bacon, Kevin the Mignion, Kevin the Mignion,
Speaker 1: Kevin le Mignon, Le Mignon, filet Mignon. So he picks
Speaker 1: up the phone because bellow Kevin le Mignon. But all
Speaker 1: that to say, like Kevin Bacon is I didn't realize
Speaker 1: that he was part of a movement to to free
Speaker 1: to Bacon Um by his own description like full support.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Kevin, Um, thank you for your service. And
Speaker 1: this was this was a thrilling moment in a thrilling movie.
Speaker 1: Absolutely truly yes, so we see his penis. He's in
Speaker 1: the shower. Because another twist, Kevin Bacon and Sam Lombardo
Speaker 1: are partners and the two of them have been colluding
Speaker 1: this whole time. Tragic. They talk about Kelly's death. Kelly
Speaker 1: wasn't supposed to die, that was not part of the plan.
Speaker 1: But now the cops are convinced that Kelly is the
Speaker 1: one who killed Susie, so it seems like Sam is
Speaker 1: totally off the hook. Sam then takes Detective Bacon out
Speaker 1: on his new sail boat, and Sam flings him overboard
Speaker 1: because I guess he wants all the money for himself.
Speaker 1: He doesn't want to split it with Kevin Bacon. Kevin
Speaker 1: Bacon gets back on the boat. There's a scuffle, and
Speaker 1: then another twist because I guess who's there, Susie. She's
Speaker 1: not dead after all, you know, like rich Miami lady wig,
Speaker 1: and she shoots and kills Detective Bacon with a harpoon
Speaker 1: gun and I love a good harpoon gun. It's my
Speaker 1: favorite weapon. It's and then she kills Sam with poison,
Speaker 1: the second coolest weapon. She's like giving him this like
Speaker 1: snarky pop quiz as she's murdering. Oh it's so satisfying. Um.
Speaker 1: And so we learn that Susie is a genius who
Speaker 1: knows how to sail, and that basically she was the
Speaker 1: mastermind behind this whole thing, because during the credits we
Speaker 1: see flashbacks of Susie approaching Sam Lombardo and like blackmailing him.
Speaker 1: She tells him to befriend Kevin Bacon. She's just like
Speaker 1: again orchestrating this whole scheme. You see the tooth removal,
Speaker 1: which that's going to stick with me for a while.
Speaker 1: That's right up there with the raccoon right. Uh. Then
Speaker 1: we see the scene where Detective Bacon actually shoots Kelly twice,
Speaker 1: like not in self defense, he just like makes it
Speaker 1: look like she shot him. And then finally there's a
Speaker 1: scene where Bill Murray gives Susie a case full of
Speaker 1: money and then she kisses him on the cheek and
Speaker 1: it makes it seem like they're also in cahoots or something.
Speaker 1: Not really sure what the intention was there, but that
Speaker 1: is the end of the movie. So let's take a
Speaker 1: break and we will come back to discuss and we're back.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to pull more this did this Kevin Bacon? Uh?
Speaker 1: I just wanted to return to the free the Bacon
Speaker 1: movement for just a Kevinbacon bellow. Kevin Uh. He said, gentlemen,
Speaker 1: it's time to free the bacon. And by bacon, of course,
Speaker 1: I mean your weener, your balls, and your butt. He
Speaker 1: goes on to say that his show, the show he
Speaker 1: was on, was canceled because there wasn't a single shot
Speaker 1: of his penis. He really was going in. This is
Speaker 1: like all done in a jokey way. But I just
Speaker 1: love him. That's good. I love him. Uh. There were
Speaker 1: two things I wanted to bring up because I try
Speaker 1: to bring some good stuff to the to the show
Speaker 1: when you bring me. So. One of the things that
Speaker 1: I love is the conversation between Um Susie's grandmother and
Speaker 1: a detective, where it's revealed that the reason why she
Speaker 1: wants revenge on Ray the cop, is because he murdered
Speaker 1: a seminal boy that she was friends with. So she's
Speaker 1: an ally, So we love that about her. And then
Speaker 1: the late Great Roger Ebert gave Wild Things three stars
Speaker 1: and in his review he says, he says this, which
Speaker 1: I'm going to read it just because it's really hilarious.
Speaker 1: He says, Wild Things is lurid trash with a plot
Speaker 1: so twisted they're still explaining it during the closing titles.
Speaker 1: It's like a three way collision between softcore sex film,
Speaker 1: a soap opera, and a B grade noir. I liked it.
Speaker 1: Look when he's right, He's right. He that goes on
Speaker 1: to say the movie solidifies Nev Campbell's position as the
Speaker 1: queen of slick exploitation because this was right after both Screams,
Speaker 1: and gives Matt Dylan and Kevin Bacon lots of chances
Speaker 1: to squint ominously, and has a sex scene with Denise
Speaker 1: Richards that is either gratuitous or indispensable, depending on your
Speaker 1: point of view. He then goes movies such as this
Speaker 1: either entertained or a friend audiences. There's no neutral ground.
Speaker 1: Either you're a connoisseur of melo dramatic, comic vulgarity, or
Speaker 1: you're not. You know who you are. I don't want
Speaker 1: to get any postcards telling me this movie isn't bad taste.
Speaker 1: I'm warning you it isn't bad taste. Bad taste elevated
Speaker 1: to the level of demented sleeves, and I just thought
Speaker 1: eloquence style. Look we've had our disagreements with Roderie Britten's
Speaker 1: it that is, Uh, that is because a solid appraisal
Speaker 1: of the movie. I love that he gave it three stars,
Speaker 1: would not have three out of four to like, that's
Speaker 1: a he's on a different scale. Yeah, he has some
Speaker 1: of the weirdest reviews, Like you never know he's going
Speaker 1: to think of something, And I find that's why, even
Speaker 1: when I strongly disagree with him, I'm like, I just
Speaker 1: want to know what he's thinking exactly. We always bring
Speaker 1: up his reviews for a reason because either we're like, whoa,
Speaker 1: I'm shocked that we were on the same page about that,
Speaker 1: or like, this is the worst thing I've ever heard. Interesting, Well, here,
Speaker 1: he's right. What did he call it a demented sleeves?
Speaker 1: Or yes, he called it demented sleeves. I mean he's
Speaker 1: not wrong. Um, where do we want to start with
Speaker 1: this analysis? Uh, there's a there's a smash Myth song
Speaker 1: in this right. Oh, I just wanted to firm at
Speaker 1: the beginning. There's I think a smash Moth song. Is
Speaker 1: it smash Moth? I couldn't remember. I'll verify, I'll verify that.
Speaker 1: But but there's plenty of other things to talk about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: where where would we like to begin? Does anyone have
Speaker 1: a strong so for me? I remember first watching the
Speaker 1: movie and I was like, great, they're gonna make some
Speaker 1: that these girls lied about rape. I hate this. But
Speaker 1: then when it was all like, oh, they're all in
Speaker 1: this super contrived, ridiculous revenge plot, I was like, well,
Speaker 1: this I can handle. You know. It was like it
Speaker 1: was like a very thing of like and it was
Speaker 1: just purely like these two girls lied about being sexually
Speaker 1: assaulted to destroy this man's life just because they were bitter.
Speaker 1: I was like, that's annoying. I don't like that. Delete,
Speaker 1: but I do support women's wrongs, and I really did
Speaker 1: like how it came together, even while knowing that it
Speaker 1: was very bad and not at all good. Like it's
Speaker 1: because it is like net Like, if you're looking for
Speaker 1: like a good takeaway this movie, I don't think that
Speaker 1: you'll find it. I did find some attempts to be
Speaker 1: like this movie is feminist actually, and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: let's not. Let's not go completely wild, Like I don't
Speaker 1: think that there's a really good argument for that, but
Speaker 1: it's so off the rails that it's it's almost like
Speaker 1: hard to talk about because it's so off the rails
Speaker 1: every single thing it happens. And where I was thinking
Speaker 1: about I was trying to like put it in historical
Speaker 1: context of like, okay, somewhat recent but also completely different time.
Speaker 1: There is this element of this big public trial, of
Speaker 1: which there were a ton in the nineties, most of
Speaker 1: which women were like disbelieved in and mistreated and like
Speaker 1: you know, ganged up on by the media and the public.
Speaker 1: And I was like, maybe the is trying to say
Speaker 1: something about that. It seems like that's definitely like the
Speaker 1: world this takes place, and but then it takes another
Speaker 1: turn and then your five steps removed from that and
Speaker 1: right at its core, like having a movie about two
Speaker 1: young girls lying about rape even though like you could
Speaker 1: argue they have been statutory raped by Matt Dylan because
Speaker 1: they are under age, like it, uh, you know, right, right, Okay, So,
Speaker 1: like I tried to kind of map out the story
Speaker 1: and like the twists and the implications of what happens
Speaker 1: with each kind of major story beat, and like what
Speaker 1: you're thinking as an audience member as things progress. So
Speaker 1: first you you think it's you think it's about two
Speaker 1: teenage girls being assaulted by an adult man being assaulted
Speaker 1: by their guidance counselor, although I don't remember, Okay, I
Speaker 1: think we're supposed to think that Denise Richards is lying
Speaker 1: from the beginning, though, because we see that shot of
Speaker 1: her quote unquote seducing him and like what we're told
Speaker 1: as a calculated way, Yeah, I feel as though the
Speaker 1: movie wants you to be under the impression that she
Speaker 1: is lying about it, because she is like this, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: this s doctress who is now bitter that she was rejected,
Speaker 1: so you see her give her statement. We meanwhile have
Speaker 1: this female cop being like, I think she's I think
Speaker 1: Kelly Van Ryan is lying. We can unpack that further.
Speaker 1: But then it turns out that the teens are lying,
Speaker 1: which perpetuates the myth that survivors of rape are lying
Speaker 1: and making it all up to ruin the lives of men,
Speaker 1: which was also like the public narrative at these big
Speaker 1: show trials of the nineties as well. Exactly. Then it
Speaker 1: turns out that the team girls are in cahoots with
Speaker 1: the man and trying to make money from it, which
Speaker 1: perpetuates the myth that survivors of rape are lying and
Speaker 1: making it all up for financial gain, which is another
Speaker 1: common perception. Also, meanwhile, this adult man is in a
Speaker 1: sexual relationship with both of these teen girls. And while
Speaker 1: the movie repeatedly lets you know that they are eighteen,
Speaker 1: they are the age of consent, but st like you,
Speaker 1: your teachers can't have sex, but their students dynamic, power dynamic, disgusting. Yes, he's, like,
Speaker 1: I think, supposed to be twice their age, like he
Speaker 1: the characters twice the ages the girls there c W.
Speaker 1: Casting is so wild, guys, because you're like, I'm not sure, Okay,
Speaker 1: I didn't catch that they were stated to be eighteen.
Speaker 1: They're stated to be eighteen, got it? But who knows
Speaker 1: when they turned to eighteen? Also, again, the power dynamic
Speaker 1: is extremely disgusting. Then we're led to believe that the
Speaker 1: two girls are murdered by one of the men and
Speaker 1: then the other guy who turns out to be his
Speaker 1: partner in crime, who we learn is a corrupt cop,
Speaker 1: but not the same cop who thought the rape victims
Speaker 1: were lying, So that's confusing. And she is another thing
Speaker 1: that I was like, is Daphne ruben Vega implied as
Speaker 1: having a relationship with Kevin Bacon as well, Like there's
Speaker 1: like some scene between them that seems kind of like
Speaker 1: hinting at somewhere or intimate, but I wasn't sure. And
Speaker 1: then it's like she's the only one that's actually, I
Speaker 1: guess attempting to solve the case, even though her I
Speaker 1: I can't always trace her logic, but I wasn't sure
Speaker 1: if it was also implied. It just like is implied.
Speaker 1: It seems like that every woman in this story is
Speaker 1: in a sexual relationship with either Matt Dylan, Kevin Bacon
Speaker 1: or both. Yeah, It's like one of the most frustrating
Speaker 1: things is because like if you watch like the right
Speaker 1: thillers of like the nineties and eighties always pick like
Speaker 1: the most generic white man, like all of them with
Speaker 1: like Michael Douglas, and I don't understand why these beautiful
Speaker 1: women are trying to ruin, you know, the dick life
Speaker 1: of Michael Douglas. You know, is that who I don't
Speaker 1: believe Glenn Close is going to ruin her entire mental
Speaker 1: health for this person. It doesn't always get I I
Speaker 1: still I'm not all the way through it yet, but
Speaker 1: I know that that's the most recent season of you
Speaker 1: must remember this is like all about eighties erotic thrillers
Speaker 1: and like the politics surround again and the actors surround again.
Speaker 1: But it is all like it's a murderers row of
Speaker 1: like oh that that guy question Mark, Like they're all
Speaker 1: just like different variations on the same you know, sharp
Speaker 1: jawed white guy that I think whatever. I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: if you're into it, you're into it personally. In this
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, Matt Dylan works for me. You
Speaker 1: shouldn't have told me that about your brother, Caitlin. I
Speaker 1: know someone's gonna be getting some texts. Okay, we shouldn't
Speaker 1: be surprised because you're also hot, Caitlin, so that only
Speaker 1: it only makes sense. You got hot jeans. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. You're so well and honestly, if someone if
Speaker 1: you were like Matt Dylan's my cousin, I'd be like,
Speaker 1: you know what I see it. It's the powerful face structure.
Speaker 1: I feel sick. Um okay what okay? So then the
Speaker 1: final So the final like twist slash, big reveal is
Speaker 1: that one of these girls isn't actually dead, She was
Speaker 1: not murdered, and she was scheming against the men the
Speaker 1: whole time. The whole thing was her idea and she's
Speaker 1: an evil genius, which you can argue, like, turns out
Speaker 1: she has the most agents I know along canonically, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think there was an interesting comment from the director
Speaker 1: about that. The director, John McNaughton, he said in so
Speaker 1: twenty years later he says that this was his most
Speaker 1: political film because of how he felt it commented on
Speaker 1: social class. He said, quote, who wins the girl from
Speaker 1: the trailer park. She's all alone on the ninety foot
Speaker 1: sailboat out on the Caribbean. Pretty much everyone else is dead.
Speaker 1: That was the nineties, with the concentration of wealth, but
Speaker 1: the girl from the trailer Park takes them all down.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm from the striving working class. A lot
Speaker 1: of the kids I grew up with, the parents didn't
Speaker 1: care if their kids dropped out of school. But some
Speaker 1: of us had parents who insisted their children have an education,
Speaker 1: go to college, escape all that. So that's where my
Speaker 1: heart always lies. Unquote. That's a loaded statement in itself,
Speaker 1: but I thought it was interesting that he was willing
Speaker 1: to like publicly be like for me, this is a
Speaker 1: movie about class struggle in Florida, which had it been
Speaker 1: handled differently. I'm not saying it was done well, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: It's one of those things where like I read that
Speaker 1: quote and I'm like, well, I admire the hootspah, the ambition.
Speaker 1: It is a bit of a mess, and it isn't
Speaker 1: interesting like Marxist reading of the fill of like how
Speaker 1: do you do a thriller like this in which you
Speaker 1: do work to make the women more empowered? Because if
Speaker 1: you think about something like fatal attraction or basic instinct,
Speaker 1: there is this idea that like, at the end, the
Speaker 1: man has to be the one who survives these toxic women.
Speaker 1: And so in that sense, it is a flipping of
Speaker 1: that trope, but it does so by leaning into some
Speaker 1: of the most problematic tropes about what it means to
Speaker 1: be a survivor. And I think I've been kind of
Speaker 1: coming to terms with this for a while because I
Speaker 1: do like erotic thrillers. I do like these kind of stories.
Speaker 1: It is just hard to enjoy them because people actually
Speaker 1: think that women are like this, that's a thing. We
Speaker 1: live in a patriarchy, and like there are people who
Speaker 1: really believe that women are black widows that will like
Speaker 1: do these long cons to like ruin a man's life,
Speaker 1: and so it stops you from being able to enjoy
Speaker 1: a movie in which a girl does a long con
Speaker 1: to ruin to men's life quite frankly deserved it one
Speaker 1: is a murderer and one was a statutory rapist, right,
Speaker 1: Like that's like the perfect Yeah, that like crystallizes something
Speaker 1: I could not have stated as well, where it's like
Speaker 1: it's exciting to engage with this genre as like an
Speaker 1: escapist fantasy of like, oh, wouldn't it be amazing to
Speaker 1: be playing a game of four D chest with a
Speaker 1: bunch of assholes and like win. But yeah, like the
Speaker 1: general sis male perspective, and certainly in like was like
Speaker 1: it's supposed to like create fear within men that like
Speaker 1: all women are out to get something from them and
Speaker 1: if they don't get what they want, they will ruin
Speaker 1: your life and lie. And like it's just like the
Speaker 1: least from that perspective, it's like the least introspective way
Speaker 1: to approach a movie, which sucks because it is super
Speaker 1: like I used to I feel like earlier in this podcast,
Speaker 1: like years ago, I would feel kind of like guilty,
Speaker 1: I guess for enjoying movies like this because you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: they do on their you know face appeared like not
Speaker 1: particularly pro woman because women are made out to be liars.
Speaker 1: They're like executing these long cons. They're disbelieved in all
Speaker 1: this stuff. But it's like it just depends on how
Speaker 1: you're engaging with it. There's a million ways to engage
Speaker 1: with everything. And it's just like the dominant interpretation were
Speaker 1: always given is like the is sis mail And so
Speaker 1: if this movie was um just for people who who
Speaker 1: understood it feel so fun. But but even but then
Speaker 1: it's like you've listened to what the director says and
Speaker 1: it's like, well, maybe he doesn't even understand it, so
Speaker 1: question marks all around that. Plus what takes me too
Speaker 1: far out of it to the point of no return
Speaker 1: for this movie is that so much of it relies
Speaker 1: on these false rape allegations, which is such a very
Speaker 1: very harmful and sinister thing to perpetuate, where I'm sure
Speaker 1: like young men boys like watch this movie and they
Speaker 1: were like, oh my gosh, women they will just make
Speaker 1: up stories and they will accuse me of sex crimes
Speaker 1: just so that they can ruin my life and try
Speaker 1: to get money out of me and try to get
Speaker 1: attention and like you know, fame and all the reasons
Speaker 1: that people believe survivors of rape and assault come forward.
Speaker 1: This movie reinforces this idea that, yeah, rape allegations are wrong.
Speaker 1: People made them up up and they did it for
Speaker 1: very selfish reasons. And it's just like, because that's so
Speaker 1: much at the crux of this story, it's just too
Speaker 1: hard for me to be on this movie's side. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: And I think that's I think I think that's just
Speaker 1: as valid as those of us who enjoy the titillation
Speaker 1: of it, because it really is like everyone has their
Speaker 1: own barometer, like every everyone has their own threshold. And
Speaker 1: I think what is frustrating is that it really is
Speaker 1: sort of like you know, we talked about like how
Speaker 1: society informs art and how it informs the audience right back,
Speaker 1: and I feel like that's kind of where I'm at
Speaker 1: when I rewatch this movie. It's like there's a part
Speaker 1: of me that likes it because again, I like women's crimes,
Speaker 1: and I like and I and I and I find
Speaker 1: it and I find it compelling about this like girl
Speaker 1: who's poor uses the like the sexual taboos of the
Speaker 1: people around her in order to get power. But because
Speaker 1: we live in such a fucked up society in which
Speaker 1: that kind of woman is seen inherently as a liar,
Speaker 1: as a con artist. It stops you from being able
Speaker 1: to just really get absorbed into this story. I mean
Speaker 1: we see that with, you know, with Gone Girl. Like
Speaker 1: there's been so much recent because of certain celebrity cases
Speaker 1: about like everyone bringing up like you see, like this
Speaker 1: is why we can't support these films. And people have
Speaker 1: been saying things about Gillian Flynn that I don't necessarily
Speaker 1: agree with, but it makes it so that even a
Speaker 1: film like that, which is clearly playing with noir tropes
Speaker 1: and these kind of things, is seen as suspect because
Speaker 1: it does perpetuate an idea that this is something that
Speaker 1: women do like. And the critical reading skills and watching
Speaker 1: skills have made it very hard to enjoy everything. So
Speaker 1: thanks for that of ours, Thanks for that knowledge. And
Speaker 1: it's like there's and then there's plenty of people who
Speaker 1: watched Gone Girl and like love the ship out of
Speaker 1: that movie for the same reasons you're describing, because they
Speaker 1: and also because they have some perspective and can take
Speaker 1: you know, three steps out of a movie successfully, and
Speaker 1: and also like we've been like hinting at this throughout
Speaker 1: the whole episode. But as as I was, I hadn't
Speaker 1: seen this movie, but I felt like, this is like
Speaker 1: the most this is like the X Games version of
Speaker 1: this premise. But like I was like, oh, I've seen
Speaker 1: movies with this premise before. Like when I was working
Speaker 1: on Lolita podcast, I was looking at all of the
Speaker 1: nineties movies of like teenage temptresses that are lying and
Speaker 1: ruining a man's life, because that's the way that Lolita
Speaker 1: is framed by the narrator. That's what he you know,
Speaker 1: needs people to believe is happening. A whole other thing,
Speaker 1: but it reminded me Um, this movie, at least up
Speaker 1: until it really goes off the rails, was reminding me
Speaker 1: of this. Alicia Silverstone's first movie is called The Crush.
Speaker 1: It's kind a similar where it's like a young It's
Speaker 1: about a teenager who becomes obsessed with Carrie Elwis of
Speaker 1: Um of sow fame. I believe this is most famous role.
Speaker 1: Heaven chicks off both, but so like The Crush is
Speaker 1: a similar premise where it's like a teenager who finds,
Speaker 1: you know, an older man she's interested in, and then
Speaker 1: when she feels spurned or rejected by him, she lies
Speaker 1: to everybody and is out to ruin him, and he
Speaker 1: is a total victim in the story. She is this conniving,
Speaker 1: evil character and it sucks like from but I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm very like on and off in the genre
Speaker 1: where it depends on the execution and how it's framed.
Speaker 1: Wild Things works for me more because it's so off
Speaker 1: the rails that you're like, I don't know what the
Speaker 1: takeaway from this movie could possibly be, but but I
Speaker 1: totally agree with the Gaitlan where like, this movie doesn't
Speaker 1: work without fundamental disbelief in young women's rape allegations, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, inharcuably a negative. And also I think is
Speaker 1: I mean in light of recent events, like it's not
Speaker 1: like people are particularly more inclined to believe survivors of
Speaker 1: assault now than they were. Um, that scene with Bill
Speaker 1: Murray in the courtroom was rude. It was so god yeah,
Speaker 1: And and the fact that like you know that there
Speaker 1: are people who are just nodding along like yeah, and
Speaker 1: then it gets validated by her being a liar, and
Speaker 1: it just it is frustrating because I think if it,
Speaker 1: like anything that has to do with like sort of
Speaker 1: like I especially a friend of mine about sort of
Speaker 1: the concept of like rape fantasies that some women have
Speaker 1: in terms of like sexual and that like there is
Speaker 1: this in a billy you discussed this because that gets
Speaker 1: weaponized against us, you know, the fact that we might
Speaker 1: have those fantasies become a thing of like, well, then
Speaker 1: how do you know this is like that or this
Speaker 1: is like that. It's like it's it's these inabilities to
Speaker 1: separate real people from fiction. It's like it's fiction and
Speaker 1: this is a real person, and it's just like it's
Speaker 1: getting worse because even if I thought about this film
Speaker 1: from like the class perspective of like the reason why
Speaker 1: this you know, Afro Latina detective doesn't believe this very
Speaker 1: privileged white woman is like not just being like women
Speaker 1: are liars, but like that class element to it. But
Speaker 1: even that's not helpful because privileged woman can still be
Speaker 1: vigd in the social assault. And it does matter if
Speaker 1: you perpetuate like the blonde white woman as inherently like
Speaker 1: a third trap, because she is ultimately a victim in
Speaker 1: this film because she was being sangatory raped by her teacher. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like manipulated. I think this isn't like touched on
Speaker 1: in the movie really, but it's like, for sure the
Speaker 1: Matt Dylan character had to be severely manipulating these girls
Speaker 1: to convince them that this is absolutely going to be
Speaker 1: in their best interest, because they're the ones who, realistically,
Speaker 1: in this situation, would have their reputations and lives destroyed
Speaker 1: by like engaging in this case at all. Like I think,
Speaker 1: I'm glad it doesn't go there, but like the Nev
Speaker 1: Campbell character, if that actually aired on TV in the nineties,
Speaker 1: like her life would have been ruined, like it's I
Speaker 1: don't know well, And then going back to what you
Speaker 1: were just saying, Princess, where you know it's this this
Speaker 1: woman of color who isn't believing this, you know, very privileged,
Speaker 1: rich white girl. That dynamic isn't something that the movie
Speaker 1: overtly explores. Yeah, exactly right. It's only just there for
Speaker 1: us to interpret, but not anything that the movies actually
Speaker 1: like clearly examining. So it's tricky. But yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 1: So there's that scene in the court where um, where
Speaker 1: Bill Murray is like basically badgering Nev Campbell's character to
Speaker 1: admit that she's lying. Very unpleasant to watch, much like
Speaker 1: a lot of the scenes between the cops and the
Speaker 1: two teens. It gets complicated because it does turn out
Speaker 1: that they are lying but UM. For example, when Kelly
Speaker 1: is giving her statement towards the beginning of the movie,
Speaker 1: Detective Prez says, well did you try to fight back? Um.
Speaker 1: She asks a similar question to Susie, saying like, well
Speaker 1: did you tell him to stop? Basically saying like, why
Speaker 1: didn't you try to stop getting raped? Susie responds with,
Speaker 1: you know, what's the difference, No one's going to believe
Speaker 1: me anyway, which statistically true. And then, like we talked about,
Speaker 1: there's the moment where Detective Press doesn't believe Kelly's statement
Speaker 1: because there's no She's like, well, maybe there's no physical
Speaker 1: evidence because she's making the whole thing up. You have
Speaker 1: Detective Bacon saying like, well did you flirt with him
Speaker 1: a little bit? You know, blaming her and suggesting that
Speaker 1: her behavior makes her at fault. All these things that
Speaker 1: are pretty authentic to how cops tend to conduct themselves
Speaker 1: when it comes to sex crimes, UM, and how they
Speaker 1: tend to handle reports of rape and assault. UM. I
Speaker 1: don't know if the movie is actively commenting on this
Speaker 1: or more just sort of like presenting it is like, well,
Speaker 1: this is just how it's happening in this movie. Can't
Speaker 1: really tell And I guess I don't know what my
Speaker 1: point is about this, aside from that's kind of the
Speaker 1: one part of the movie that does track the cops
Speaker 1: like conductor around these but it's rendered moot. I feel
Speaker 1: like when it turns out that the girls are lying
Speaker 1: about these allegations, and that's the core problem. Yeah, so's
Speaker 1: it's it's like really difficult to talk about this movie.
Speaker 1: They've created this like whatever like shell game that it's like, well,
Speaker 1: in the logic of the story, it's true that they're lying.
Speaker 1: It's just like the fact that that's what they defaulted
Speaker 1: to is very telling. And those I I would say,
Speaker 1: I mean, based on what I learned from a scholarly
Speaker 1: journal Wikipedia about the writing of this movie, I would
Speaker 1: say that probably a lot of this was not intended.
Speaker 1: It sounded like, uh, the guys went to Florida and
Speaker 1: uh wrote a little ditty. Um, yeah, there there's the
Speaker 1: credited screenwriter is a classic two first names Steven Peters
Speaker 1: love that. I prefer the work of Peter Stevens, but
Speaker 1: that's just mewise, there's two kinds of people, but like
Speaker 1: it went through a lot of rewrites. I guess um.
Speaker 1: A writer named kem Nunn was given a rewrite thing,
Speaker 1: and so they were sent to Florida and uh producer
Speaker 1: named Peter Goobers Peter Goober Oh my gosh, said that
Speaker 1: when I read the script, I thought, as crazy as
Speaker 1: it is, I do believe it could happen in the
Speaker 1: world we live in. Once I believe that a story
Speaker 1: can happen in the real world, then I know how
Speaker 1: to direct it. And you're just like, um, I don't
Speaker 1: think that they were thinking that hard or trying to
Speaker 1: say that much. If they read this script overre like,
Speaker 1: this is plausible, this could happen. Um. And the director
Speaker 1: also said, uh, I really liked the script, but it
Speaker 1: was also me asking myself, what sells sex and violence?
Speaker 1: You want sex and violence, Well, here you go. How
Speaker 1: much can you take it? They weren't thinking that hard.
Speaker 1: They did put okay, let's take a quick break and
Speaker 1: then come back and talk about sex and we're back.
Speaker 1: I feel like this is very important to bring up,
Speaker 1: so I apologize. So Steven Peters was fifty one years
Speaker 1: old when he wrote the script for a while. Things. Okay,
Speaker 1: so he's writing teen Girls as year old man. Oh
Speaker 1: my god. I was like, I saw I was like
Speaker 1: born nineteen seven, and I was like, I loved it.
Speaker 1: Whenever you find stuff like that out, are you just
Speaker 1: like I can't help but picture him at his house
Speaker 1: being like, all right, like time for dinner, Like, oh god,
Speaker 1: He's like. You know what teen girl else do is
Speaker 1: they plot schemes to ruin the lives of men. They
Speaker 1: punch each other and knock each other into swimming pools
Speaker 1: and then start kissing and they kiss they do kids,
Speaker 1: which okay, uh, let's talk about Peters. How could you
Speaker 1: so Peter Stevens would have done it better? Peter Stevens
Speaker 1: would never like So this scene in particular, which I
Speaker 1: thought went on for way longer than it did, I
Speaker 1: was like, miss remember maybe I was just you know,
Speaker 1: wishful thinking, not sure, but oh my god. Sorry, there's
Speaker 1: like if you type in Peter stevens our joke name
Speaker 1: into Wikipedia, three men come up. Of course, of course,
Speaker 1: one's a car designer, one's an r A F officer.
Speaker 1: What is that sounds scary? Alright? Sorry? Continue. I was
Speaker 1: just like Wow, Peter Stevens Cannon is real, real person.
Speaker 1: So the scene in the pool where Nev Campbell's character
Speaker 1: and Denise Richard's character they're mad at each other, they're
Speaker 1: physically fighting, they're trying to drown each other. Things take
Speaker 1: a turn at some point and then they are kissing
Speaker 1: and it's it's quite steamy, although it cuts away pretty quickly.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if there's like an extended scene, like
Speaker 1: an extended version like on the DVD extras or something
Speaker 1: that I have watched, But I know there's an extended
Speaker 1: version of the movie. I don't know if they've seen
Speaker 1: in particular extent. This scene is not long. I have
Speaker 1: seen these thinned version and it is not longer. It
Speaker 1: is not longer. Okay, So I'm just filling in the
Speaker 1: gaps in my own brain. Good to know about me
Speaker 1: and my psyche. But the point is that I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people have cited this movie and that
Speaker 1: scene in particular as a sexual like a queer awakening
Speaker 1: for them. There's also a discussion to be had about
Speaker 1: queer baiting. There's a lot to unpack here. Also, keeping
Speaker 1: in mind that detect to Bacon is filming this scene
Speaker 1: on a camcorder, which will also um kind of transition
Speaker 1: to do another conversation about the male gaze in this movie.
Speaker 1: But the pool scene, thoughts, it really is the power
Speaker 1: of these two women just being very incredibly good looking,
Speaker 1: because like, because it's tacky, it's you know, supremely male
Speaker 1: gazey in every single sense of the word. Am I
Speaker 1: going to pretend that it wasn't nice to see Nev
Speaker 1: Campbell and in these Richard's kiss No, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: lie on the beddel cast I will not. I will
Speaker 1: not be held in contempt of cast court. You will
Speaker 1: not perjure yourself. I will not perjure. It reminds me
Speaker 1: of like seeing Selma Blair and Sarah Michelle Geller kiss.
Speaker 1: That's like, was it a moment for me? Yes, that's
Speaker 1: the feminist in my brain and meant that this is
Speaker 1: not this was not made with me in mind. If
Speaker 1: they had had Kevin Bacon and met Dylan kiss, then
Speaker 1: we can have a different conversation. That would have been
Speaker 1: Denise's boobies kissing Nev Campbell and then the Bacon and
Speaker 1: then the kissing of the two men, and then we
Speaker 1: could have at least had some equal opportunity voyeurism, but
Speaker 1: we didn't. I agree. I this wasn't because I didn't
Speaker 1: know this movie existed until this week. This was not
Speaker 1: an awakening movie for me. But I feel like it's
Speaker 1: very easy to see like there are other analogs to
Speaker 1: this scene in nineties movies that do technically qualify as
Speaker 1: queer baiting. But also that doesn't invalidate the raw power
Speaker 1: that a scene like this can have. They also could
Speaker 1: be queer characters. I don't know that the filmmaker's intention
Speaker 1: was there, But do we really think that Stephen Peters
Speaker 1: or Peter Stevens or whatever the fun his name is,
Speaker 1: has any nuance on this topic. I would guess definitely,
Speaker 1: but maybe he would surprise us. I don't mean he
Speaker 1: might also, so the characters. Those two characters kiss I
Speaker 1: think three different times throughout the movie. First in the
Speaker 1: scene where Susie, Kelly, and Sam have a threesome, where
Speaker 1: like he's kissing one of them, he's kissed the he
Speaker 1: kisses the other one, and then he says, now you too,
Speaker 1: kiss and they seem to willingly and consensually kiss each other.
Speaker 1: And it's very hot, admittedly, and it seems like, am
Speaker 1: I am? I out of line? Baits saying it doesn't
Speaker 1: seem like it's like it seems like it's happened before,
Speaker 1: like could be that was my maybe that again I'm projecting.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, wait, these ladies know what they're doing. Well,
Speaker 1: what I can say, I'll let you finish and I'll
Speaker 1: I'll come in with my facts that I wrote for
Speaker 1: this thing. Sure. So then they kiss again in the
Speaker 1: pool scene, and then they kiss the third time. I
Speaker 1: think they're in Kelly's mom's range rover. It's when they
Speaker 1: like go to the beach, and shortly shortly after that
Speaker 1: is when Susie is we think murdered by Sam. Turns
Speaker 1: out she wasn't. But they just share like we're just
Speaker 1: gonna we need to get wasted and have fun tonight,
Speaker 1: and then they kiss each other. So we don't really
Speaker 1: know because the movie doesn't explore their relationship beyond that,
Speaker 1: but it does happen three times that they kiss on screen.
Speaker 1: If that kind of contextualizes anything further, But Princess, you
Speaker 1: had you have a thought, so I wanted to say so.
Speaker 1: Nev Campbell said that she enjoyed kissing Denise in a
Speaker 1: interview when she talked about the Rolling Stone and they
Speaker 1: said that they kind of like got like, you know,
Speaker 1: had some margarities, and but then that they're both adult
Speaker 1: women does make me feel a lot more comfortable. Yes,
Speaker 1: and seven has a lot more autonomy than like a
Speaker 1: twenty one. Those few years do matter to me. And
Speaker 1: then she said that she wrote in her journal about
Speaker 1: the experience and she wrote, Okay, I'm going to make
Speaker 1: out with a girl for the first time in my life.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting that a lot of times you learn
Speaker 1: things about yourself and have new experiences when shooting a
Speaker 1: scene because there are things you would normally do in
Speaker 1: your life. It's so interesting, isn't that she's so cute?
Speaker 1: And Denise was just kind of like, at one point,
Speaker 1: I was thinking, it's four o'clock in the morning, I'm
Speaker 1: half naked in a swimming pool, I'm making out with
Speaker 1: Nev Campbell. What am I doing here? God bless? And
Speaker 1: one thing I will say, because I know there's been
Speaker 1: to talk about about consent. One thing that the director
Speaker 1: did say is that he puts all the sex scenes
Speaker 1: in the script, so whenever he hires actors, he makes
Speaker 1: sure that they know that that's in the script, that
Speaker 1: they don't have to feel tricked or manipulated into that
Speaker 1: once they're in a comforting zone, he'll maybe see how
Speaker 1: much more comfort they have was certain things. But he
Speaker 1: does put it all in there, and I feel that
Speaker 1: is a good thing as well. Yeah, I agree. It's
Speaker 1: it's like, I shame on me for being shocked whenever
Speaker 1: a director male director does the bare minimum for their cast.
Speaker 1: But like that, I was also kind of, I guess,
Speaker 1: like heartened to read about the fact that, yeah, like
Speaker 1: they knew about the nudity and it was like built
Speaker 1: into their contracts. Where like Denise Richards did an extensive
Speaker 1: negotiation on how much nudity would be allowed, she had
Speaker 1: the option to use a body double, she opted not to.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm assuming when she was like, shout out
Speaker 1: to the body double episode we did recently another erotic' um,
Speaker 1: but she said that she she filmed the scene with
Speaker 1: herself without a body double, after drinking a picture of
Speaker 1: Margarita's with Nev Campbell. Again incredible. M reminds me of
Speaker 1: the oh, what's the What's Ski Sisters thriller? We just
Speaker 1: covered bound. Yes, they also mentioned bonding and getting a
Speaker 1: little tipsy before hooking up on screen. For that movie,
Speaker 1: Campbell's contract had a strict no nudity clause, and Kevin
Speaker 1: Bacon also had a new no nudity clause that he
Speaker 1: then later because he was also a producer on the movie,
Speaker 1: even though he was quoted as saying, this is the
Speaker 1: trashiest thing I've ever read, but he's also a producer. Um,
Speaker 1: so he had a no nudity clause. But then he
Speaker 1: uh and quoting Wikipedia but without giving it much thought,
Speaker 1: allowed McNaughton to use the shot that he thought looked
Speaker 1: best in a moment of frontal nudity was included in
Speaker 1: the film. So you mean everyone had the option to
Speaker 1: be naked or not. So you mean, Kevin, let me
Speaker 1: show you my bacon. Bacon was originally like, no bacon
Speaker 1: in this one. Originally he was like, I want to
Speaker 1: be serious. But then he's like, actually, yes Bacon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: He's like, this movie will only be successful if I
Speaker 1: showed my bacon. And you know what, now, three sequel later,
Speaker 1: it was wrong not him. Yeah, how would the world
Speaker 1: be different? And and a big question in the ripple
Speaker 1: of how would the world be different is what if
Speaker 1: the I don't think it was filmed. The Duquette and
Speaker 1: Lombardo sex scene near the end of the film. I
Speaker 1: would imagine, and again, maybe this is my imagination getting
Speaker 1: away from me. I'm imagining Matt Dylan gets in the
Speaker 1: shower with Kevin Bacon in the scene with the Bacon
Speaker 1: I don't know. It says that the original screenplay featured
Speaker 1: a scene between Duquette and Lombardo near the end of
Speaker 1: the film where the men kiss in the shower. Oh
Speaker 1: that's why I think that. Okay, they kiss in the shower,
Speaker 1: revealing that the two had a relationship that allowed Lombardo
Speaker 1: to prey on Duquette in order to manipulate him and
Speaker 1: con him out of the money. This is a twist
Speaker 1: that is very in keeping with this movie. The reason
Speaker 1: it didn't happen, according to Kevin Bacon, the scene was
Speaker 1: modified to the Bacon scene. We have to eliminate any
Speaker 1: suggestion of a sex relationship between the men, as the
Speaker 1: film's financiers quote didn't like the idea of men making out.
Speaker 1: They felt it went too far unquote, which I fucking
Speaker 1: didn't feel like women making out went too far, Which
Speaker 1: goes back to sort of the male gaze kind of
Speaker 1: exploitation of women's bodies that we'll talk about. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the last thing I want to say about the relationship
Speaker 1: or I guess sexual connection between Susie and Kelly. There's
Speaker 1: that scene where we learned what's in Kelly's file slash.
Speaker 1: We learned what Sam wrote in Kelly's file that he
Speaker 1: then gives to Detective Perez, and he says in it
Speaker 1: that Kelly is sexually confused, which implies that bisexual people
Speaker 1: or like like people who are questioning their sexuality are
Speaker 1: quote unquote sexually confused. A deeply stance to take another
Speaker 1: thing that's like presented I think very matter of factly
Speaker 1: and not as a way of commenting on anything. I
Speaker 1: think that that's just the writer being like And of
Speaker 1: course everyone feels this way because in the same sentence,
Speaker 1: Kelly is said to have threatened the life of two people,
Speaker 1: as if she is threatening people's lives because she is
Speaker 1: quote unquote sexually confused. Like her sexual confusion is leading
Speaker 1: to like violent tendencies kind of thing, which brings us
Speaker 1: back to the basic instinct. But I don't know if
Speaker 1: that's what the movie believes, or if that's just what
Speaker 1: sim Lombardo thinks, and we already know that he's a
Speaker 1: sleazy character who manipulates people. I couldn't really tell, and
Speaker 1: that confuses things. If well, I guess not to tip
Speaker 1: my hat or give Steven Peters the benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 1: But if that character was originally written as also being bisexual,
Speaker 1: then that's a totally different read on that scene. Totally confusing,
Speaker 1: so confusing. I just had the thought, like, I just
Speaker 1: was like, what if I want someone to cut the
Speaker 1: trailer for this movie with like the Jennifer's Body audio,
Speaker 1: because imagine if it was like Didnise Richards and and
Speaker 1: Nev Campbell in like Jennifer's Body. Now I'm just having chills.
Speaker 1: Go now, I just have to live. It's gonna have
Speaker 1: to live in my brain now. And it's the thing is,
Speaker 1: it's not too late either. It's not too late. It
Speaker 1: can be done. Can we talk about the male gaze cinematography? Absolutely? Sure? Okay,
Speaker 1: so we get a lot of it. Jeffrey L. Kimball.
Speaker 1: Just so you know, this is also at photography staging
Speaker 1: these shots known previously. Oh this is interesting. He was,
Speaker 1: this is really interesting. He was also the cinematographer for
Speaker 1: the Legend of Billy Jean that was his first movie. Okay,
Speaker 1: does not compute, does not line up all right? Well, anyways,
Speaker 1: so we get I think the first extreme example is
Speaker 1: a gratuitous scene of two girls washing a car. There
Speaker 1: are so many lingering shots of like their butts, their
Speaker 1: pelvis is like, we see their like wet t shirts.
Speaker 1: And this scene does not need to be in the movie.
Speaker 1: We do not need girls washing a car. Take it
Speaker 1: out of the movie. The movie is tighter and more seamless.
Speaker 1: But I also I don't but I also understand awakening
Speaker 1: appeal of a scene like that, but it's also like, well,
Speaker 1: but that scene is clearly intended for six men. So
Speaker 1: I'm going through Jeffrey Kimble's filmography and I'm curious er
Speaker 1: and curious er. He starts with a Legend of Billy Jean.
Speaker 1: He also is a cinematographer on Top Gun. He also
Speaker 1: did an Adrian Line movie, so he also did true
Speaker 1: romance Like this guy films Bodies, Bodies, Bodies, Bodies. Need
Speaker 1: to see that one wasn't him. Yeah, I haven't seen
Speaker 1: it yet, I have seen Bodies, Bodies, Bodies. I think
Speaker 1: he's retired. He also did Old Dog, which I don't
Speaker 1: have a comment on. I just think it's fun. Um.
Speaker 1: But anyways, yeah, this this guy loves a greased up,
Speaker 1: wet body to film. Sure, just that's threesome scene. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of like heavy focus on you know, the
Speaker 1: Denisius boobs her butt and the way that, like Matt
Speaker 1: Dylan's body is not focused on or objectified. We get
Speaker 1: a scene where Denise Richards is getting out of a
Speaker 1: pool all sexy for no reason. The camera slowly pans
Speaker 1: up her body. She's talling off. You can see her
Speaker 1: nipples through her swimsuit. Detective Bacon is like, nice stroke. Anyway,
Speaker 1: did you plan this whole scheme to get a bunch
Speaker 1: of money out of your mom? And she's like what anyway,
Speaker 1: no reason this scene needs to take place at a
Speaker 1: pool or like right after she's gotten out of a pool.
Speaker 1: Just a lot of choices were made, and I get it,
Speaker 1: like this is these are staples of the erotic thriller.
Speaker 1: But why is a trope of the erotic thriller to
Speaker 1: exploit and objectify women's bodies constantly? That's a question I
Speaker 1: would ask. It was like I felt so However, when
Speaker 1: I was rewatching that scene, I just like, damn, I
Speaker 1: hate that I am attracted to Like, damn it, my
Speaker 1: queerness portrays me again part of the problem. I felt
Speaker 1: like that I means I was like, am I am?
Speaker 1: I part of the problem because I obviously I would
Speaker 1: not have shot if I was a cinematographer, I would
Speaker 1: not shoot it in that way because it's just it's
Speaker 1: very over the top and es much because it isn't
Speaker 1: as equally like, you know, we have to see dick
Speaker 1: lines then, you know what I'm saying. It's like we
Speaker 1: had all the time. Yeah, we only see that one
Speaker 1: tiny little glimpse of coming Bacon's bacon, and that wasn't enough.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't even supposed to be there. It wasn't
Speaker 1: even intentional. I think it's also just like I remember
Speaker 1: watching the movie, I'm like, these starts are so vieuristic
Speaker 1: and these women look so good. It was like it
Speaker 1: was like, like, I know, it looked so cool, Like
Speaker 1: her styling was really cool. I loved her her like
Speaker 1: goth like outfits. Like I'm just like, man that the
Speaker 1: costumers really dressed these ladies up very nicely. Miss his
Speaker 1: hot topic herself. I really liked her costume. It there's
Speaker 1: a number of different ways to approach the cinematography where
Speaker 1: I think, like, on its face, it is like clearly
Speaker 1: exploitative of women, especially like very obvious what they're trying
Speaker 1: to do, very obvious, the like whatever that there's a
Speaker 1: good fifteen years leading up to this movie where doing
Speaker 1: that is a very proven money making box office move.
Speaker 1: This this movie, I think kind of baffingly makes its
Speaker 1: money back three times. But then it's, uh, I don't know,
Speaker 1: and then and then I'm like, I'm a little bit
Speaker 1: of a part of the problem in this case also,
Speaker 1: so it's confusing. Yeah, it's uh, it's kind of rude
Speaker 1: sometimes how are like sexual brains and our analyst brains.
Speaker 1: It's almost like they're sort of like having a fight
Speaker 1: in a pool and they're like kind of punching each other,
Speaker 1: but then they start kissing, and I'm just like, what's
Speaker 1: going on here? What do I think? And yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean the threesome scene. I feel like also was kind
Speaker 1: of telling like you like you're saying of like how
Speaker 1: it's very very preoccupied with Denise Richard's body specifically, it's
Speaker 1: not that occupied with Matt Dylan's body, And it's also
Speaker 1: very preoccupied with close ups on Nev Campbell's jealous face,
Speaker 1: as if to say, like I wish I was saying
Speaker 1: Matt Dylan, and you're like, of the two, are you serious?
Speaker 1: But like, but it's clear that it's like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is like for him. And again it's like if he
Speaker 1: if his character was canonically bisexual like he was supposed
Speaker 1: to be, it just becomes a more I think, like
Speaker 1: interesting conversation. And if men's bodies had been you know,
Speaker 1: if this movie have been preoccupied with the men's bodies
Speaker 1: as well, that shifts the conversation a little bit, but
Speaker 1: it doesn't. And I think it's really interesting that, like
Speaker 1: Kevin Bacon said explicitly, like our financiers were not interested
Speaker 1: in filming a scene between two men because you know
Speaker 1: that doesn't equal money in the way that queer betting
Speaker 1: between two women equals money, right. I also have a
Speaker 1: theory that and let's get into some screenwriting. Not that
Speaker 1: I know anything about it, not that I have a
Speaker 1: master's degree in it from Boston University, which I would
Speaker 1: never mention, but my theory is that because when you're
Speaker 1: writing a movie, you're always looking for ways to sort
Speaker 1: of just like heighten the situation, especially in like an
Speaker 1: erotic thriller. You're thinking, Okay, how can I make this,
Speaker 1: How can I push boundaries? How can I really make
Speaker 1: this tantalizing and push social morays and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: And I feel like including the sexual connection between these
Speaker 1: two teen girls was a way to be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can just sort of use that, use queerness as
Speaker 1: a way to really push boundaries and heighten this, heighten
Speaker 1: the situation of this of this movie that's supposed to
Speaker 1: be like sexy and violent and kind of sick because
Speaker 1: it's about you know, rape and salt and violence. So
Speaker 1: it loops in queerness as like a quote unquote social taboo,
Speaker 1: like it just yeah, it's just like in basic instinct
Speaker 1: when it's like Catherine, you know, she's bisexual but like dangerous,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like right, and I'm just sitting here
Speaker 1: like yes, and you know it can't just be yes.
Speaker 1: It has to be yes. And she is dangerous because
Speaker 1: she is bisexual and a sociopath, Like, please please include
Speaker 1: both otherwise it is very upsetting. One is biphobic, both
Speaker 1: is a character and yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the late
Speaker 1: nineties I mean it's like we were we were there,
Speaker 1: but what was happening there? I don't know. And it's
Speaker 1: and to your point, killing it's like by including a
Speaker 1: very queer baity plotline and just the general cinematography of
Speaker 1: like lingering on these women's bodies so much, it's like
Speaker 1: it almost is like it's like perceived as being risky
Speaker 1: when in reality, there were fifteen years of movies before
Speaker 1: this that proved that this was not risky, this was
Speaker 1: a sure thing for them. Well they so they still
Speaker 1: get to have the like aesthetics of being cutting edge
Speaker 1: and risky while actually playing it extremely safe. Well, what
Speaker 1: actually been risky and different is if they filmed the
Speaker 1: scene between Matt Dylan and Kevin Bacon. That would have
Speaker 1: been different. But these filmmakers didn't have the guts. They
Speaker 1: didn't have the if they had taken a screenwriting class
Speaker 1: with let's say, a young talented woman that wasn't born
Speaker 1: two years after World War Two ended, maybe that would
Speaker 1: have made a difference. Who knows, Killen. I've always said
Speaker 1: that you're the Stephen Peters of modern screenwriting. As a compliment, well,
Speaker 1: I preferred to be thought of as the Peter Stephens.
Speaker 1: So fair enough, your car designer. What else is there
Speaker 1: to discuss? Anyone have anything else? Just that like watching
Speaker 1: this movie for the second time. This movie is sex crimes.
Speaker 1: It is especially heinous. But to quote in another review
Speaker 1: of it, he said it was from the Washington Post.
Speaker 1: The person said, the film is clearly a croc. It
Speaker 1: may not have a single redeeming feature, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: have a dull moment either. And I'm just like, goddamn right,
Speaker 1: It's like that is And that's a former speechwriter for
Speaker 1: the Obama administration saying that it is so it is
Speaker 1: so bizarre. It is. It is legitimately not a good movie.
Speaker 1: But every time I watched it and just kind of
Speaker 1: like fascinating, you know, I just want to smoke a brandy.
Speaker 1: Drink of brandy is what the cigarette? Just be like fascinating.
Speaker 1: It's it's a lot like what if this is what
Speaker 1: the aliens find? Oh my god, And what will they
Speaker 1: think of us? Will they think we are awesome? Or
Speaker 1: like I just think I just think that, Like Denise
Speaker 1: Richards was like Starship Troopers this and then Bond. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like what a what a what a triple threat?
Speaker 1: Just like what a trajectory and you can't say she
Speaker 1: doesn't have the range. She's got there, she's got the
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a reason I think that this movie
Speaker 1: has sort of I don't know how much of like
Speaker 1: a cult following it has. But people still't know about
Speaker 1: this movie. People still talk about it still gets referenced,
Speaker 1: like it's been requested numerous times on the show. You know,
Speaker 1: it's got a legacy, uh for I think mostly being
Speaker 1: sexy trash. I mean, what's wrong with a little sexy
Speaker 1: trash here in there this movie? Yes, is there any thing?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think like it's We've mentioned this several
Speaker 1: times at this point, but um, this movie is extremely white.
Speaker 1: Um in a state where it doesn't make sense to
Speaker 1: be extremely like Florida is an extremely diverse state. There's
Speaker 1: no reason for this to be in all white cast
Speaker 1: except for Daphne Rubin Vega, I think, or actually there
Speaker 1: are a few the principle at the school. It's it's all,
Speaker 1: it's all kind of like the very light typical because
Speaker 1: even you know, the seminal character is dead and we
Speaker 1: never see them and they're the whole reason for this
Speaker 1: entire plot, and you don't see another indigenous person there
Speaker 1: at all, which is very disappointing. It's almost like Steven
Speaker 1: Peters didn't educate himself on jack Ship before writing this,
Speaker 1: Like it's in a very of the air away. It's
Speaker 1: a it's a very white, white, white movie, and that
Speaker 1: is one of the many facets of this movie that
Speaker 1: does not hold up. Um. I was happy to see
Speaker 1: Daphne ruben Vega. I just like her as a thirteen
Speaker 1: year old former recovering um fan of rent. But do
Speaker 1: I wish she was given more slash, more interesting things
Speaker 1: to do? Yes? Do I wish she was not cast
Speaker 1: as a cop? Definitely? Absolutely? Yeah? Why is she being like,
Speaker 1: don't believe women they're do? I wish that weren't her platform? Yeah?
Speaker 1: As there there any other things. I mean, we didn't
Speaker 1: really get to the mom uh, horny mom, horny mom.
Speaker 1: I mean there's really not that. Like again, I just
Speaker 1: don't think the movie is thinking about her very hard.
Speaker 1: But just because we we just so happened to record
Speaker 1: an episode about Tangled yesterday and talking about like a
Speaker 1: narcissistic mother with a daughter, I think it is like
Speaker 1: worth mentioning that it does give Kelly's character more dimension
Speaker 1: than I was expecting to give her a difficult relationship
Speaker 1: with her mom, who even when even though she believes
Speaker 1: her daughter's rape allegation, which again this is all blown
Speaker 1: up by the fact that it's not real, but her
Speaker 1: mother does believe her immediately but for very selfish reasons
Speaker 1: and makes her daughter's alleged assault all about her, which
Speaker 1: is I don't know what I mean, it just feels
Speaker 1: worth pointing out. And also the fact that Matt Dylan
Speaker 1: has had sex with a mother and a daughter that
Speaker 1: are both grieving. There's you know, spouse slash father who
Speaker 1: died by suicide the year before. It's just like the
Speaker 1: fact that we didn't get around to talk to you
Speaker 1: about that really speaks to how much is going on
Speaker 1: in this movie. I mean, well, I think that's nothing
Speaker 1: to say about grief, but I do think it's like,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's another thing they threw in there. My
Speaker 1: thought about that is so for a while, we are
Speaker 1: led to believe that this whole scheme was Kelly's idea,
Speaker 1: and that she is deliberately screwing over her mom to
Speaker 1: get money from her, like the trust that she feels
Speaker 1: that she deserves earlier, because right now it's like, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to get the trust until my mother dies.
Speaker 1: So we think for quite some time that Kelly has
Speaker 1: such a vendetta against her mom that she's doing this
Speaker 1: whole plot to steal from her mother, who I guess
Speaker 1: she hates. But I felt that their relationship was not
Speaker 1: contextualized or flored enough to understand what was going on
Speaker 1: there at all. Do they treat each other particularly well?
Speaker 1: I would say no, they don't seem like they have
Speaker 1: the best relationship, but there's just we don't know enough
Speaker 1: about it that I'm like, wait, what, why are she
Speaker 1: doing those now? And what? Because I also feel like
Speaker 1: with the mom, like there's a very shorthand of like
Speaker 1: woman having sex equals evil equals villain, and I feel
Speaker 1: like that shorthand is used with her character like or
Speaker 1: like she's somehow callous or unfeeling by wanting to enjoy
Speaker 1: casual sex, especially as like an older woman. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: like they really, you know, shrewd ify her in a
Speaker 1: way that Yeah, I agree that there's not enough context.
Speaker 1: So it's like in one way, you're like, Okay, Kelly's
Speaker 1: character is very traumatized by like because there is that
Speaker 1: one scene with them that doesn't give you enough information,
Speaker 1: but it like I thought it was going to come
Speaker 1: back and it just didn't. Where Kelly's mom has different
Speaker 1: culty like touching her own daughter, like she can't touch her,
Speaker 1: and it's like trying to have a conversation with her
Speaker 1: about the dad, but like they can't quite communicate. And
Speaker 1: that is a really interesting setup if you intend to
Speaker 1: return to that extremely heavy plot point again, which they don't,
Speaker 1: and it ends up making Kelly's mom look extremely callous
Speaker 1: and manipulative and self involved. Then it just kind of
Speaker 1: drops it. So it's kind of like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I couldn't even reach a conclusion of any sort about
Speaker 1: it because you're like, it just goes away. It was
Speaker 1: an interesting setup, but I guess I don't really have
Speaker 1: much faith in how Mr Steven Peters would have would
Speaker 1: have landed on it either. So yeah, that was my
Speaker 1: last thing. Pretty baller move though, for Sandra van Ryan
Speaker 1: to tell sam One that he was really good at sex,
Speaker 1: but that's all he's good for, and to say that
Speaker 1: in front of the other guy that she is currently
Speaker 1: fucking look pretty cool. Can't wait to try that out someday.
Speaker 1: Got I mean picking up the phone while you're coming
Speaker 1: is also like a pretty pretty incredible thing to do. Like,
Speaker 1: she's classically trained. I love going to like, yeah, you
Speaker 1: go to Teresa Russell's Wikipedia page. Lee Strasberg the same
Speaker 1: deal with Jigsaw. Jigsaw went like graduated from Yale drama school.
Speaker 1: And you're like, and it makes sense, but you have
Speaker 1: done that without the training. We don't know. I love you, guys.
Speaker 1: We're so happy you came back. Like do we do
Speaker 1: we miss I mean, I'm sure we missed something. I
Speaker 1: feel like I missed everything. But there's there's just too
Speaker 1: much happening in this movie. We we simply can't touch
Speaker 1: on it at all. My last question is, what does
Speaker 1: Teresa Russell's say? Did she say I missed it the
Speaker 1: first time I was an anapylactic shock. The second time
Speaker 1: I missed it? She said something on the phone to
Speaker 1: Matt Dylan, something akin to not every man knows how
Speaker 1: to drive my boat or like that. Oh, she says,
Speaker 1: I haven't found a man who can drive my boat
Speaker 1: better than you, or something like that boat as pussy metaphor. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting. And the guy she was fucking knew it
Speaker 1: because he was like, really, girl, I didn't even leave
Speaker 1: the room, and she was like, I don't. This isn't
Speaker 1: about you. That's what I'm saying. She is an icon,
Speaker 1: perhaps maybe Mother of the Year. She is not. But
Speaker 1: did she say did that Lee Strasburg trained Teresa Russell
Speaker 1: say not not? Every man knows how to run ride
Speaker 1: my boat? Absolutely yes, and we stand, let's just we do.
Speaker 1: We have to hand it to her. Does this movie
Speaker 1: past the Bechtel test? I think so yeah, between some people,
Speaker 1: not as much as it should. I honestly forgot to
Speaker 1: pay attention. As pretty usual. I would look back and
Speaker 1: then they would talk talking to the movie like say,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be like, god, damn it set up. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think right before the girls make out, they are
Speaker 1: talking about mommy issues, So that might be. That might
Speaker 1: be the moment right before the queer baiting we get
Speaker 1: feminism and then it's gone. There's also the scene where
Speaker 1: the two girls go to the beach and Susie is like, oh,
Speaker 1: I thought we were going to go somewhere else and
Speaker 1: the other ones like no, I think we just like
Speaker 1: need to get wasted tonight, and then they kiss and
Speaker 1: then Sam shows up, but like they're like small exchanges
Speaker 1: within larger conversation. I think the larger conversations generally don't pass,
Speaker 1: but like individual with the micro kind of want to
Speaker 1: give it to this movie. I don't really know why.
Speaker 1: I'm on Scarletly Journal betel test dot com and there
Speaker 1: are a few that I think passed in the microway.
Speaker 1: Possibly not the macroway, but it allegedly passes in that
Speaker 1: scene you're just describing Princess between Nev Campbell and Denise Richards,
Speaker 1: and I guess it also passes between Denise Richards and
Speaker 1: her mom at the beginning of their conversation where she's
Speaker 1: being asked why she's missing school, right, and there's like
Speaker 1: a couple lines that passed before it's like, oh, did
Speaker 1: a boy hurt your feelings or like whatever, um ms,
Speaker 1: Lee Strasburg, says Teresa Russell herself. Yeah, it like sucks.
Speaker 1: Also that, like the scene that passes, it is also
Speaker 1: full of like a blest nineties slurs and just like yeah,
Speaker 1: every time every time I hear the R A word,
Speaker 1: and if I'm like oh god, it's like it's like
Speaker 1: a visceral, like oh God, I forgot that used to
Speaker 1: be a thing that happened. Oh no, and that happened
Speaker 1: all the time. Uh well, hey, how about that nipple
Speaker 1: scale of ours zero to five nipples? Based on looking
Speaker 1: at the movie through an intersectional feminist lens, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get a nose bleed. Oh I think I'll give the
Speaker 1: movie a half nipple, mostly because of the way the
Speaker 1: movie ends, because for a long time I'm like, oh no,
Speaker 1: these girls are lying there scheming. Then they get murdered,
Speaker 1: so basically every bad thing that could possibly happen happens.
Speaker 1: But then it's like, wait a minute, nev Campbell was
Speaker 1: the mastermind behind the whole thing, and she's a genius,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, I do kind of like that.
Speaker 1: Although I could have sworn that the movie ended with
Speaker 1: Kelly coming back also like her faking her death and
Speaker 1: it's the two of them like working together. That would
Speaker 1: have been feminism. That would have been like and then
Speaker 1: it could have ended in a more bound way where
Speaker 1: they both live, and this movie isn't really operating on bounds. No,
Speaker 1: so I misremembered that and it's just Susie. But I'll
Speaker 1: give that ending a half nipple. The rest of the
Speaker 1: movie is trash, particularly how the movie basically reinforces this
Speaker 1: extremely harmful and sinister idea that survivors of rape are
Speaker 1: actually lying and making it all up for financial gain
Speaker 1: and to ruin the lives of quote unquote innocent men.
Speaker 1: Horrible thing to reinforce, very gross. And then all the
Speaker 1: other things we talked about, just you know, the exploitation
Speaker 1: and constant objectification of women's bodies, and all the other stuff.
Speaker 1: The one cop who's a woman being the one leading
Speaker 1: the charge on disbelieving the other woman and being right.
Speaker 1: The list goes on. Just it's a cluster fluck. Um
Speaker 1: I do. I would down the line want this movie
Speaker 1: in a group. This would be a fun movie to
Speaker 1: watch in a group. Oh yeah, a drinking game. Definitely
Speaker 1: for every twist you die. But I'll give the movie
Speaker 1: half nipple, even though I don't think it really deserves it.
Speaker 1: And I will give that half nipple. I'll give it
Speaker 1: to the actor Daphne ruben Vega, not the character she plays,
Speaker 1: but the Yeah she rocks. I'll meet you there. It
Speaker 1: feels wrong giving this movie nothing because it's doing so much. Um,
Speaker 1: it would feel it would feel mean, but for the
Speaker 1: for the reasons that we've been talking about for apparence
Speaker 1: of two hours now. It is like this movie is
Speaker 1: kind of like like it creates all these trapdoors to
Speaker 1: make it impossible to talk about UM. But I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I think all things considered, we did we
Speaker 1: did a pretty good job. Because it's like, well, this
Speaker 1: almost made a point, but then if you go back
Speaker 1: to the original plot point that two young girls are
Speaker 1: lying about assault, that kind of makes all the points moved.
Speaker 1: This movie is saying everything and nothing at the same time.
Speaker 1: It made my head hurt, truly in good and bad ways.
Speaker 1: It feels like the most erotic and thrillyst erotic thriller
Speaker 1: I have maybe ever seen. Yeah, I don't know that
Speaker 1: I necessarily have much to add to what we've already said,
Speaker 1: except that, uh, someone wrote a whole essay that's cited
Speaker 1: on Wikipedia that this is loosely based on a Greek tragedy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like you're telling me that Matt Dylan is supposed
Speaker 1: to be Hippolytis. It just doesn't make sense. But I
Speaker 1: think that that speaks to how baffling this movie is
Speaker 1: to like people need it to make sense in some way. UM,
Speaker 1: and by relating it to some of the oldest stories
Speaker 1: that exist on the planet. Um, okay, look, I like
Speaker 1: how Ultimately at the end, someone says, who says it?
Speaker 1: It's Bill Murray, much like e t he says, be good, confusing,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna gonna have a nipple and I'm gonna, um,
Speaker 1: I guess you gave yours to Dapty ruben Vega. So
Speaker 1: she's I'm going to give mine to Teresa Russell and
Speaker 1: um and her landline telephone. Yes, yes, that's amazing. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna put your two half nips together and make it
Speaker 1: into one full nipple. Only because I do appreciate Nev
Speaker 1: being like this white man killed an indigenous person, and
Speaker 1: so I'm going to everyone his life and all the
Speaker 1: white people around and I'm like, you know, I can,
Speaker 1: I can get down with that. And I think, you know,
Speaker 1: to quote from Macbeth, this this film is full of
Speaker 1: sound and fury signifying nothing. Um and and yet I
Speaker 1: will admit it got me sometimes. I know. That was
Speaker 1: kind of like, damn, they do look good, though I
Speaker 1: was I really, I was just talking to Jamie. I'm like,
Speaker 1: damn it. Part of the the sexy people do be sexy.
Speaker 1: It was definitely a thing where I was like, I
Speaker 1: was like, Princess, you're watching this to a feminist lens,
Speaker 1: and I'm just like and I'm like, yeah, this is
Speaker 1: not very bad, so you're watching respectfully, respectfully, So it's
Speaker 1: one respectful nipple. And I'm gonna give it to Nev
Speaker 1: for being an ally, for literally making the rich eat
Speaker 1: themselves and then walking away with a bunch of money
Speaker 1: into the sunset. Um. Yes, love love that for her,
Speaker 1: which she didn't have to, you know, uplift sexist tropes
Speaker 1: to do it. Yeah, And and it is such a fascinating, cool,
Speaker 1: inciting incident for the dafty ruben Vega character, for her
Speaker 1: to be avenging an indigenous friend, and the fact that
Speaker 1: that is also a really interesting salient, like super regional
Speaker 1: plot point to that is just dropped. Is garbage, all right.
Speaker 1: This movie was edited by a woman. That's my final
Speaker 1: drop of the episode. So well, I'm going to give
Speaker 1: her credit for making them look hot and for putting
Speaker 1: that shot of the rock coreon and that thought I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, do you think assis Man could come
Speaker 1: up with something of that caliber? Not possible? All right, Well, Princess,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. For coming back, come back any time.
Speaker 1: I love this place. I love talking to y'all. I
Speaker 1: feel like I get a mini film education just coming here.
Speaker 1: And thank God for you, Caitlin keeping our horny energy
Speaker 1: on on Landy, like, come on, guys, it isn't could
Speaker 1: have gone to a really dark We could have ended
Speaker 1: that by being like, so all things considered pretty good
Speaker 1: movie and Kaylin, through the power of Alfred Millinez like
Speaker 1: then let's remember Reinfortunate and we're just like, yeah, yeah, Kayla,
Speaker 1: you're right, you're right, You're right. I am wearing the
Speaker 1: shirt that Jamie designed for Super Hockey Alfred Molina my
Speaker 1: one true love. So hopefully it comes back one day.
Speaker 1: Well fingers crossed. Princess, where can we find you on online?
Speaker 1: Tell us where to find you? There's a million places
Speaker 1: to find You'll let them know if I'm not seducing
Speaker 1: people by the pool. I am on Twitter at the
Speaker 1: Weeks Princess, and then I am on YouTube as Princess Weeks,
Speaker 1: and I also have podcasts now. I did the It's
Speaker 1: Lit on a Bridge podcast for PBS and I currently
Speaker 1: co host the Netflix Gee podcast with Tessa Netting. We
Speaker 1: got to interview Neil Gaiman ever heard of him? Um
Speaker 1: for Sandman and like a lot of really fun talent.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's just a pleasure to be to be seen,
Speaker 1: be heard and be part of feminist history. By being
Speaker 1: part of the Bechtel Cast, we are kind of legendaries.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're not Stephen Peters, but you know, we
Speaker 1: just rival Peter Stevens. We're working on it. You guys
Speaker 1: will get there, I mean, like you will age and
Speaker 1: that's really all it takes to become here. We will
Speaker 1: become progressively more and more out of touch with the
Speaker 1: youth of today. We will achieve Stephen Peters level of
Speaker 1: cognitive dissonance about what teen girls are like. Actually that
Speaker 1: might not be positive, but you can help us get
Speaker 1: to that that legend status by you know, just ris
Speaker 1: up following us on social media Twitter and Instagram at
Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast. Why don't you, you know, follow us and
Speaker 1: subscribe on whatever podcast platform and write and review us
Speaker 1: while you're at us. Give us five nipples. And then
Speaker 1: there's also, of course our Patreon a k a. Matreon,
Speaker 1: where we cover two bonus episodes every single month. Plus
Speaker 1: you get access to the back catalog and you'll hear
Speaker 1: such episodes as Saw and others came over Slam. So
Speaker 1: check that out at patreon dot com slash spectel cast.
Speaker 1: It's five dollars a month, well spent. Hell yes, um,
Speaker 1: you can also get our merchant t public dot com
Speaker 1: slash the back dol Cast will have new merch coming
Speaker 1: out soon. Look. Oh, my critics will say, I haven't
Speaker 1: designed new merchant three years. Well get I've just been
Speaker 1: cooking up some little ideas, so don't worry about it.
Speaker 1: Be fine, I can't wait. Well, I'll have Kevin's bacon.
Speaker 1: But it's Kevin the Minion. It's no, I'm not doing
Speaker 1: port I trust me. There there's nothing left to be
Speaker 1: said in the world of sexualized minions. I have nothing
Speaker 1: to add to the conversation. It's been exhausted. She's exhausted.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm tired. Their cheeks are in the movie. We
Speaker 1: should have minions merch. It doesn't need to be sexy.
Speaker 1: We should have minions merch. Um. So I just got
Speaker 1: a sidetracked by the possibilities. Princess, please come back. I will.
Speaker 1: I will take something even scarier than this. Oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: I mean this is gonna be hard to top. But boy,
Speaker 1: howdy will I try well with that? Um? Hey, be good,
Speaker 1: be good. To quote famous character Bill Murray, bye bye,
Speaker 1: bye bye,