1 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. I love to travel. 2 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: That's something I've got to confess to you. I probably 3 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: value now at this point in my life travel more 4 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 1: than I do any kind of material possessions that I 5 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: might have or have had at any one time in 6 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: my life. My wife and I were ready to go 7 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: to second's notice. And as Tom has progressed, I carry 8 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: less stuff with me. I find that I need less stuff. 9 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: But with that said, I've got a I've got a 10 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: particular bag. I like to use, a suitcase. It's generally 11 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: the only thing I carry other than you know, maybe 12 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: a book bag. And it took me some time to 13 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: figure out which one I actually wanted for the purpose 14 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: that I had at to carry the stuff I needed, 15 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: you know, today own body bags. We're gonna talk about 16 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: a case that might be as troubling as anything that 17 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: I have seen, a case involving a man who's closed 18 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: up in a suitcase and loses his life. Today we're 19 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: gonna talk about the homicide of Horey Torres, Jr. I'm 20 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body Bags. Wow. I 21 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: watched a video recently that just chilled me to my 22 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: absolute core. I don't know in recent memory that I 23 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: have seen anything like this, and it was I think, 24 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: at least the last throws of a man's life that 25 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,639 Speaker 1: die right before our eyes, or was in the middle 26 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: of dying. Jackie Howard, my good friend, executive producer with 27 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: Nancy Graces Crime Stories. Jackie, I don't know if you've 28 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: seen this video. As my friend, I would prefer that 29 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: you don't want it, but I gotta tell you it 30 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: is absolutely horrific. It is, and unfortunately I have seen it, 31 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: but I did cut it off. It was more than 32 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: I really wanted to remember. It's one of those things 33 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: you can't unsee or unhear. Jorge Torres, after a night 34 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: of drinking with his girlfriend, was convinced that it would 35 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: be funny to crawl inside a suitcase and be zipped inside, 36 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: and that's what happened. Torres begged to be let out, 37 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: but wasn't. His girlfriend recording it on her phone, laughing 38 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: and Torres begging, crying out to be released, that he 39 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: couldn't breathe, that he was having trouble. The girlfriend, Sarah Boone, 40 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: went upstairs to bed and the next morning woke up 41 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: and Torres was still inside the suitcase and unresponsive. He died. 42 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: What did he die? Up? Lack of oxygen? What is 43 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: his cause of death? Yeah, in the words, it was 44 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: lack of oxygen. But there's there's kind of a fine line, 45 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, when you begin to think about lack of auction. 46 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: There's any number of ways that an individual can asphyxiate, 47 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: and we certainly talked about quite a number of those 48 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: over our episodes here on Body Backs. Uh, you know that, 49 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: I think you know this is an asphyxial death. However, 50 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: it's not in a classic sense where you begin to 51 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,119 Speaker 1: think about manual st rengulation or ligature strangulation, that sort 52 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: of thing. This is a unique type of death that 53 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: is actually called positional asphyxia. And essentially what that means, 54 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: I want every body to kind of if you can 55 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: take your arms and cross them across your chest and 56 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: squeeze as tightly as you can and breathe in and 57 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: breathe out, and continue to tighten every time you excellate, 58 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: that means blow the blow your air out, tighten your 59 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: tighten your your arms across your chest even more every 60 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: single time. And that is kind of what position astoxia is. Like, 61 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: and the body or the decedent had to have been 62 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: in a compromise position. And you know, we're talking about 63 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: a suitcase. Everybody can imagine the dimensions of a larger suitcase. 64 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: Remember this is a grown man, so he has to 65 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: fit within. It's a soft sided suitcase that zips up, 66 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: but still you have to fit within that space. And 67 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: so every time he would breathe out, he would become 68 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: more and more contracted in that space, particularly as he'd 69 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: against a panic. I don't know if you've ever had 70 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: this happen when you were a small child, Jackie, but 71 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: if you had older siblings or cousins and you guys 72 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: were rough housing and you were kind of the person 73 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: that was on the bottom on the floor, Yeah, like pickpile. 74 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: You know, they talk about a pigpile. And also if 75 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: you if you have someone to get you in a 76 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: bear hug um, you know, and you begin to kind 77 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 1: of have this chest compression that's going in. You're confined, 78 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: and you can imagine the panic that sets in in 79 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: in this kind of circumstance. So, long story short, what 80 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: they actually ruled his death as is asphyxia as a 81 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: result of positional asphyxia. We've talked about positional asphyxiation related 82 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 1: to hazing cases where fraternity brothers have had a party 83 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: and the pledges have been forced to drink a large 84 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: amount of alcohol. They pass out or fall on the floor, 85 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: and then they die from positional asphyxiation because they fall 86 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: or slump over and then their lungs can't expand enough 87 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: to breathe. So is that the same type of thing 88 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: you're talking about here. Yeah, it's the same same principle. 89 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: And generally there's some some type of inebriation that is involved, 90 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: where an individual is either going to be inebriated or 91 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: drunk on alcohol, or you might have drugs involved. And 92 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, over the course of my career, 93 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: the most common that that I encounter we're actually heroin overdoses. 94 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: And the reason is is that heroin has this sedative 95 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: quality to it and it depresses the system. Alcohol depresses 96 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: a system, but heroin in particular depresses the system and 97 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: you become very drowsy, you know. And cases that I 98 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: remember are people that would fix on a toilet, say 99 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: for instance, sit there and heat there, you know, heat 100 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: their bullets of of heroin up drawed up and injected, 101 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,239 Speaker 1: you know, into their arm where they have a tourniquet 102 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: in place, and as they get drowsy, they fall off 103 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: the toilet and slip between the toilet and the wall. 104 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: Les's positional asphix it because first off, they're compromised at 105 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: a toxicological you know, perspective where they have this drug 106 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: on board and they can't move and they're not aware 107 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: that they need to move. And then just from a 108 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: mechanical you know, like if you think about the autonomic 109 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: nervous system that tells our heart to beat and all 110 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: these things that we don't have to think about, the 111 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: autonomic nervous system can't compensate for that. It can't tell 112 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: you to breathe more rapidly or more shallow, or whatever 113 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: the case might be. So you get in this compromised position. 114 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: You can't uptake oxygen, and we know what happens. What 115 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: happens is is that your rain begins to shut down 116 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: because it's not receiving the volume of oxygen that is required. 117 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: And what is the volume of oxygen that your brain 118 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: requires It has to be sufficient to the task at 119 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: that particular time. The uptake of the oxygen has to 120 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: It has to be counterbalanced with the amount of carbon 121 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: dioxide that you have in your system, so you don't 122 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: want to be for instance, there's this idea of rebreathing, 123 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: for instance, if you're in a confined space, and I 124 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: think that this may have happened to Orhey, when you're 125 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: rebreathing as you excellate, you're not blowing out oxygen, Okay, 126 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: you're blowing out carbon dioxide. So there's an imbalance that 127 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: occurs there, particularly if you're in a confined space like this. 128 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: So your uptake of available air is primarily comprised of 129 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 1: carbon dioxide, which is a waste product that's coming out 130 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: of your body. You're rebreathing that, and so it gets 131 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: out of balance with the oxygen and so the brain, 132 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 1: you know, begins to scream because it's oxygen deprived. This 133 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: is a case of oxygen deprivation. I gotta tell you 134 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: there there was a look Service advertisement that used to 135 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: come on, you know, way back when dinosaurs are on 136 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: the Earth, and I was a little boy, and it 137 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: really stuck with me. And I'm sure that some of 138 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: our listeners have probably seen this. But there used to 139 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: be a problem with kids playing hide and seek, and 140 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: they would go and they would play hide and seek 141 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: in vacant lots. And what they would do is crawling 142 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: side of empty or in discarded refrigerators and they would 143 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: shut the door behind them. And you know, back then 144 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: in those days, you had an exterior latch on the refrigerator, 145 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: so you couldn't get out, and it's got this rubber 146 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 1: gasket that seals it. So once all of that oxygen 147 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: is gone in that tiny space. Remember, the space within 148 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: an area like a suitcase or refrigerator is not measured 149 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: in square feet. It's measured in cubic inches, all right, 150 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: So that's how much oxygen you have. It disappears very 151 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: quickly as your body demands it, so that supply just 152 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: is non existent essentially, So you're attempting to uptake something 153 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: that's not there, and that that is there that you're 154 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 1: bringing into your body is pure poisonous. What does the 155 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: oxygen deprivation lack of oxygen due to your body? As 156 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, we we've all either whether we're choking, 157 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: playing with somebody and they've got to set a chokehold 158 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: and you're in a bad position and you can't breathe. 159 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: We all know that panic about not being able to breathe, 160 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: and you reference that earlier, But what does that lack 161 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: of oxygen actually do to your body? It has to 162 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: affect everything differently. I think that probably the most obvious 163 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: response that you see. If you're like, if you've ever 164 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: seen anybody that's having like a panic attack where they 165 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,719 Speaker 1: can't control their breathing, they begin to shallow breathe, they 166 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: get lightheaded, that sort of thing. Imagine that Tom's you 167 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: know fifty if you're running out of oxtion. You know, 168 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: with panic attacks, most of the time people are in 169 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: a wide open space and they can breathe, there's auction available, 170 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: but their mind has got them in such a state 171 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: that they begin to panic and shallow breathe. Well, in 172 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: the reality that Jorge faced in this particular circumstance, he 173 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: would have had this kind of primal response. Keep in mind, 174 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: right above your kidneys, bilaterally, there are two glands. They're 175 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: the adrenal glands, and they're sitting there and it's fight 176 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: or flight, baby, And when that adrenaline starts to pump 177 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: into your system, your body is screaming out it needs 178 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 1: to do something, It needs to do something. Superhuman in 179 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: this particular instance. And the more you begin to panic, 180 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: the more fuel you need, all right, And if you 181 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: think of oxygen as fuel, you're needing more and more 182 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: of it in order to function and in order to 183 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: increase strength, speed, all of those sorts of things. And 184 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: can you imagine being inside of this thing and you 185 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: can't get out, And he's fighting in this environment as 186 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: best he can, struggling and with every turn of his body, 187 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: with every shout because you can hear him, you know, 188 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: on the video tape, every time he shouts out to 189 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: his girlfriend. He's he's using available oxygen at that point 190 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: in time, and he continues to shallow breathe. So the 191 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: more shallow you breathe, the more oxygen you're burning through. 192 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: At that point in time. There's probably going to be 193 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: an associated terrible headache that comes along with this. Blood 194 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: pressure is going to rise significantly, it's gonna spike, and 195 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: your lungs also will become markedly heavy. You'll have a 196 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:43,959 Speaker 1: fluid build up in your lungs as a response to this. 197 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: So anything and everything that could go wrong in this 198 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: particular circumstance from a physiological standpoint, goes wrong for your body, 199 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 1: if you have any chance of surviving. Let me tell 200 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: you something. They'll have old black and white movies on 201 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: television or these film clips of people like Harry Houdini, 202 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: you know, and they're they're bound up or they're placed 203 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: in a say, for whatever it is, and they they're 204 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: attempting to get out. I can watch that and begin 205 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: to panic. I don't like small spaces. And can you 206 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: imagine if you don't like small spaces, suddenly finding yourself 207 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 1: in this environment and no matter what you do, how 208 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: much you scream, how much you claw, you cannot free 209 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: yourself from this prison as you found yourself inside. But 210 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: what does it actually do to your body? You touched 211 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: a little bit on it, your lungs get heavy. But 212 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: we were talking about the brain. So when we have stranglation, 213 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 1: we know that we get patiqui, we get blood vessels 214 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: that burst. But when it's just lack of oxygen for 215 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: what we're talking about here, does that do anything to 216 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: the brain cells to shut it down? Yeah, it does actually, 217 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: and you will see there'll be some times you'll have 218 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: a fluid build up with the brain to the brain 219 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: will become more heavy, and sometimes it's it's not it's 220 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: not as appreciable as it is in the lungs, but 221 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: you'll have this subsequent build up, a fluid congestion, if 222 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: you will. And many times there have been cases of 223 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: positional asphyxia as well, where you'll have uh patiki i 224 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: because the pressure is building up. You'll certainly see and 225 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: here's something that many people might not know. We always 226 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: talk about potiq i over the mucus surfaces like in 227 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: the eye, and you'll hear about it along the gum 228 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: line too. We see it inside the lips and on 229 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: the gum line itself. You know, relative to strangulation, you 230 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: know that you also get patiqui on the surface of 231 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: the lungs as well. There's so much pressure involved in 232 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: this that you'll have these little vessels that were burst 233 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: in what's called the interstitial tissue, and that's that's kind 234 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: of the bit of tissue that is out away from 235 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: the vessels, and because the vessels kind of leach out 236 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: are they kind of burst, and then it spreads out 237 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: into the interstitial tissu. You you'll see those little focal 238 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: areas of hemorrhage in there as well. So probably back 239 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: to the brain, one of the things that you're going 240 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: to see. Specifically, is that there will be this congestion 241 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: of the brain. And many times, Jackie, many times this 242 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,359 Speaker 1: will also lead to a seizure. Because the brain activity 243 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: is so skewed at this point in time, the brain 244 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: essentially goes into a shutdown itself and the individual will 245 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: many times wind up having a fatal seizure. Do the 246 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: brain cells explode or shrivel? I mean, I guess I'm 247 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: trying to understand what it is about the lack of oxygen. 248 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: I mean, we all know we have to have oxygen 249 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: to to survive, but how is it that the lack 250 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: of oxygen just makes you die? I think that this 251 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: is important to remember, is that the brain, as we've 252 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: touched on before, is the most vascular organ in the body. 253 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: And what that means is that it has the most 254 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: blood supply. Okay, so we have to ask our self 255 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: this question why and hay, why but what let's say, what, 256 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: what is the purpose of this incredible blood supply that 257 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: the brain has. Well, the answer to that question is 258 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,239 Speaker 1: the fact that it has a super demand for oxygen 259 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: because of all of the functions that carries out. So 260 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: when you begin to think about why somebody would die 261 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: as a result of say a seizure, or the brain 262 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: would get congested. Just think about the fact that it 263 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: is in some people, some old timers, particularly relative to 264 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: forensic pathology, they'll talk about strangulation of oxygen to the brain, 265 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: and it's just kind of a euphemistic term that they're saying, 266 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: and what they're meaning is that the brain itself has 267 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: been depleted of oxygen many times and sometimes as well. 268 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: And this is kind of fascinating from the standpoint of 269 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: looking at the brain what we refer to as grossly gross, 270 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: not in the sense of, oh, that's gross, but grossly 271 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: means with the unaided eye, like when you take a 272 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: look at it after it's been removed at autopsy. The 273 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: brain will be heavy because it's congested. But the other 274 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: thing is is that it will have kind of a um, 275 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 1: kind of a blanched appearance to it because of lack 276 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: of oxygenated blood that has been going to it, so 277 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,719 Speaker 1: it will have more of a pale appearance to it 278 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: as opposed to the kind of healthy pink color that 279 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: it has. You know, people talk about gray matter and 280 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: white matter and all of that, and that that is true, 281 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 1: but the brain has kind of a pinkish hue to it, 282 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: you know, when it's removed, and most of the time 283 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: that's a sign of a healthy brain. But when you 284 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: see one that has kind of got this kind of 285 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: pale discoloration to it, it's one of the things that 286 00:17:44,920 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: you have to think about relative to oxygen supply. I'm 287 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: an old army guy, and the reason I was in 288 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: the army is because I couldn't serve on a submarine. 289 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: There is no way I think that that that service 290 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: in particular is probably one of the bravest things anybody 291 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: can do from my perspective, because it absolutely terrifies me. 292 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: The idea of running out of oxygen. It sends a 293 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: chill up and down my spine. And I have friends 294 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: that were they like to call themselves sub mariners. That 295 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: would never be for me, Jackie, well for me either. 296 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: I was a lifeguard for many, many years, and you know, 297 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: one of the things lifeguards like to do is work 298 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: on how long they can hold their breath. But the 299 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: idea of that I have caught myself while we're sitting 300 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: here talking. I have caught myself making a point to 301 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 1: take deep breath simply because what you're saying to me, 302 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: is almost putting me into the ANNEC mode that you 303 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: were talking about. I mean, making myself consciously take deep breaths, 304 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: so I can imagine if I really couldn't breathe, what 305 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: kind of a panic I would be in. Don't worry 306 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: about that. Your autonomic nervous system is going to take 307 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,479 Speaker 1: care of that. You're going to continue to breathe. We're 308 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: gonna make it through this, I promise you. It's it's 309 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: absolutely terrifying, and I can't emphasize that enough. And that's 310 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: what grabbed me about this case and the reason I 311 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about it. It's not that often, I 312 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: think in forensics that you come across something like this 313 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: because it's so unique, it's so unusual. There have been 314 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: cases over the years, I think, where people have famously 315 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 1: been kidnapped, for instance, and you know they've been placed 316 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: into a coffin alive, for instance, and the kidnapper will say, listen, 317 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: we'll tell you where the person is if you give 318 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,479 Speaker 1: us the money, and that sort of thing, and again, 319 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: my my blood pressure begins to go up at that point. 320 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,479 Speaker 1: It's absolutely terrifying. And I think that that's what struck 321 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: me with this case because there's so much going on 322 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: physiologically in the case of Hore Torres Jr. You begin 323 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: to think about we know that he was essentially zipped 324 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: up in this suitcase, but here's something interesting. And you know, 325 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,239 Speaker 1: we talked about oxygen deprivation, we talked about positional asphyxia. 326 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: But here's something that I haven't mentioned yet. Contained within 327 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 1: the suitcase where this man was held essentially by his 328 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: girlfriend allegedly were other items. And the police have not 329 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: released information yet regarding what those items were, but I'll 330 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: put it to you this way. What they've said is 331 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: that these other so called items that were found in 332 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 1: the suitcase, these things were going to be donated, you know, 333 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: like taken to you know, Goodwill or Salvation Army or 334 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: one of these places, and the suitcase was just kind 335 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: of sitting there waiting to be hauled. The way and 336 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: the fact that he was placed in there, not just 337 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: in this space that it's obviously very tight and very contained, 338 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: he was placed in there with other objects. So you've 339 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: got a couple of things working here. First off, if 340 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: you're trying to move your body into a position where 341 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: maybe you can breathe a little bit better. That ability 342 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: is going to be impeded greatly by whatever items that 343 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: are in there. And just like I mentioned earlier, relative 344 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: to ice boxes and refrigerators and that sort of thing, 345 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: those spaces are measured in cubic inches, very tiny spaces. Well, 346 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,360 Speaker 1: this space is as well. So for every item just 347 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: do the math here for every item that you have 348 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: contained in the same space with Jorge, that is going 349 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: to be less of a space that oxygen can can 350 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: actually occupy. And just let that sink in just for 351 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: a second, because now now you're you're talking about a 352 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: condition called oxygen displacement, which means you have other things 353 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: in the same space that are taking up space. And 354 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: the fact that it's so tight anyway, and he would 355 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: have been struggling. I find that absolutely fascinating. And depended 356 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: upon the level of rigidity of these items, say, for instances, 357 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: say it's a couple of candlesticks, or it's and I 358 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: don't know what's in there, a couple of candlesticks, maybe 359 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 1: a few old toys. If these things are rigid, and 360 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: can you imagine the pain that would be associated with that, 361 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: in addition to trying to move and being in this 362 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 1: already highly agitated state. It again adds another layer of 363 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: terror to this. Well, let me add on to what 364 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: you're talking about, Sarah Boone. Her body weight would have 365 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: even further lessened his space to breathe in and his 366 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,679 Speaker 1: ability to breathe. Well, here we go. We've got another 367 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 1: type of asphyxia to talk about now, because now, wow, 368 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: how many are we up to? Now? Now you're we're 369 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 1: talking about something called compression astphyxia. Compression and positional or 370 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: not the same thing. No, it's not, it is not. 371 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: People can say that that it is, I suppose, but 372 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: they're they're kind of delineated. Generally, if you think about 373 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: positional asphyxia, most of the time folks will think about 374 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 1: somebody that is in a contracted position and they're unable 375 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: to kind of extend their body to the point where 376 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: they can breathe. Say, for instance, like like Mr Torres, 377 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,719 Speaker 1: if you're in a fetal position, which we would have 378 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,479 Speaker 1: to assume that he probably was, with his knees drawn up, 379 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: his back curled almost in a tortoiselike you know, posture, 380 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: arms tucked perhaps in front of him. That's a positional event, okay, 381 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:56,479 Speaker 1: And you can't extricate yourself from that. Now, that is 382 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: different than compressionist phyxia. Remember how I mentioned earlier, You know, 383 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: when we're kids and we're playing around and whatnot, and 384 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: wrestling and whatnot. If people are familiar and down here 385 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: in the South, we use a term called pickpile, where 386 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: if you're the smallest one, you're on the bottom, and 387 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: you've got all of these people kind of stacking up 388 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: on top of and everybody's joking around except for the 389 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 1: person on the bottom, of course, and you're panicking. Well, 390 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: the more weight you apply, the less of an opportunity 391 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: your chest has to expand. So let's just say, and 392 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: this is kind of torturous when you think about it, 393 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: Let's just say that for ten seconds, she allegedly goes 394 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: over to the surface of the suitcase and sits on 395 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: top of it with Mr Torres contained and beneath her. 396 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: As she's sitting there and she's teasing and she's taunting 397 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,679 Speaker 1: him perhaps and all the while maybe she's bouncing up 398 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: and down. Well, every time she moves down, you know, 399 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: and gravity is gonna draw her down ord draw her 400 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: weight downward on him. That's gonna height in that space. 401 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: But then when she stands up, let this sink in. 402 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: When she stands up, his chest can re expand at 403 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: that point, okay, and maybe he thinks that it's over. 404 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: Maybe he thinks that he's about to get out, and 405 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: all of a sudden he starts bringing normally or as 406 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: normally as a can the space, and then all of 407 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: a sudden she sits back down and kind of this continuous, 408 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: repetitious event like this, it it kind of sneaks over 409 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: into the area of torture, because this is something that 410 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: you might see, for instance, in a situation, say with 411 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 1: a torture event from the medieval tips where they're tightening 412 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: some kind of encasement upon you. Famously, there was the 413 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: fellow and the during the Selim witch trials that you know, 414 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 1: he famously said because he would not confess to being 415 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: a witch, and they pile stones on him to try 416 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: to get him to confess. And the last words he 417 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: ever uttered as they were putting more and more weight 418 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: on him was he said, more weight because he would 419 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 1: not confess. And so that is compression asphyxia. The more 420 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: weight that you have on you, the less you have 421 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: as far as a capacity for your lungs to expand, 422 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: and that again adds another layer to this that's is 423 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: absolutely horrific. How much does your size play into how 424 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: much weight that you could hold in that you would 425 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 1: still be able to breathe, that you'd still have room 426 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: when we breathe me in. There's two types of breathing. 427 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: Whether people realize it or not, you have chest breathing 428 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: and diaphragm breathing. When you're a singer or you're a 429 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: public speaker, you breathe from the diaphragm because it gives 430 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: you greater wind volume. When your lungs expand inside your chest, 431 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: they don't have a lot of room, but there still 432 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: is some room. So how much does your chest have 433 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: to be compressed or unable to expand for this type 434 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: of asphyxiation to happen. I think that it would take 435 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: a pretty detailed study in order to come up with 436 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: a specific number. But let's just kind of begin to 437 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: factor it like this. You begin to think, you know, 438 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: the larger the person you are. First off, a large 439 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: person is not going to be able to fit inside 440 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 1: of that suitcase. To begin with, I make no bones 441 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: about it. I got a fifty in chest, and so 442 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: there's no way I could fit inside of that of 443 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: that suitcase. Okay, there's no way a smaller person might could. 444 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: And a lot of it's gonna have to deal with 445 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: your muscle density, how much oxygen your muscles require, and 446 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: how much muscle you have on you. Also, are you 447 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: compromised at all physiologically. Let's say, for instance, that Mr 448 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: Torres was a smoker. For instance, his lung capacity is 449 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: going to be diminished as a result of this, so 450 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: he's he's not going to have the ability to respire 451 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: like many people might. For instance. It would be very 452 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: difficult to actually get an accurate measurement on that though. 453 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: But when you begin to couple that with also this 454 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: kind of specter that's lingering in the background. In this case, 455 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: these people were both inebriated, They had both been drinking, 456 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: and she admits that they had, you know, knocked off 457 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: a bottle of chardonnay that night, and so alcohol is 458 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: going to play a factor in this as well. Well. 459 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: That was my next question, Joe, how much does alcohol 460 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: play into this, impacting his ability to breathe? We know 461 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: it is a depressant. You're absolutely right, Jackie, it is 462 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: a depressant and Obviously, we've seen people that have been 463 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: been drunk and they've become violent. You know, I've certainly 464 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: witnessed the end result of that many times on cases 465 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: i've worked. It doesn't necessarily make everybody go to sleep. 466 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: I've got you know, friends will say, well, all it 467 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: texts from me is one class of wine. I'm passed 468 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,719 Speaker 1: out in the in the corner. And I'll have other 469 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: friends as it will say, well, you know, don't don't 470 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: put any tequila near me. I'm gonna wind up ripping 471 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: the place apart. But it is a depressant, and it 472 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: does impact the lungs and your ability as a result 473 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: of the impact of the alcohol to uptake oxygen, and 474 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: it will compromise your ability to breathe. So when you 475 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: couple that with this kind of compromised physical condition that 476 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: you're in, and then you introduce this into your system, 477 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 1: and right now this is kind of what we're waiting 478 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: on right now. But right now we don't know what 479 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: his blood alcohol level is. And you know, I tried 480 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: listening to this tape as as little as i as 481 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: I possibly could, but I had to go back and 482 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: listen to it, and you know, his voice, it sounds 483 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: very shaky and kind of slurred. Not I'm had to think, well, 484 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: am I hearing this because he's running out of oxygen? 485 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: Or am I hearing this because he's inebriated or is 486 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: it a combination of both. I think it's probably a 487 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: combination of both. But the combination of the alcohol along 488 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: with the compromised physical positioning in this case, it is 489 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: absolutely a recipe for death. There are certain cases I 490 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: remember from my time as an investigator where I did, 491 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: in fact find bodies in suitcases. But most of the 492 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: time when I found bodies and suitcases, they were not 493 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: completely integrated. As a matter of fact, most of the 494 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: time they had been dismembered. And in this particular case, 495 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: I cannot imagine what the medical examiner investigator's reaction was 496 00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: when they showed up the scene and you've got a 497 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: grown man folded up inside of a suitcase. Because we 498 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: had a full grown man inside a suitcase, he had 499 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,959 Speaker 1: some other injuries. What were those injuries and were they 500 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: caused by him trying to get out of the suitcase 501 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: since nobody was going to let him out. When I 502 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: heard that he had injuries on his body, that was 503 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: the first thing I'm thinking about, you know, because I've 504 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: always got this, you know, going back to this idea 505 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: of being closed spaces and how horrible this is. You 506 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: begin to think about, you know, um, tales of people 507 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 1: trying to scratch their way out of being buried alive 508 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: in coffins and all that sort of thing. You'd see 509 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: broken nails and nail marks everywhere. That's not what we're 510 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: talking about here, that that is not We have to 511 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: go back and remember this is not like, um, a 512 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: hard sided suitcase. Um, this is a soft suitcase. Okay, 513 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: it's it's made out of out of fabric of some type, 514 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: and it's some kind of man made woven fabric, manufactured fabric. 515 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: And you begin to think, well, how did he get 516 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: bruises on him? Because they they're talking about and they 517 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: use this term specifically, they say that he has sustained 518 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: blunt force trauma. And anytime you hear that, you've got 519 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: a couple of things that you can consider. Either, these 520 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: are defensive wounds where somebody is in a fight and 521 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: they're throwing their hands up or trying to get somebody 522 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: off of them. Maybe they've been struck by an item 523 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: in that sense, kind of in a defensive posture, or 524 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: they're on the receiving end of being pummeled. Remember, he 525 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: had been in there for some time. Who Lord only 526 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: knows what else could have happened to him once he 527 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: was in there. I don't think that you know the 528 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: entirety of of his encapsulation and thing was videotape. Obviously 529 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: it wasn't. A matter of fact, it cuts off very 530 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: suddenly he's got blunt force trauma, and it is within reason, 531 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: is within reason that he could have sustained blunt force 532 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: trauma at the hand of someone literally pummeling him through 533 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: this soft sided luggage, And you think about this man 534 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: is begging for his life. You can hear him on 535 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: the videotape. He's begging for his life. He's crying out, 536 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: he's asking for mercy. He's referring to Miss Boone continues 537 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: to refer to Ms Boone as babe, a term of affection. Babe, 538 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: please let me out. I can't breathe. I can't breathe. 539 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: And he's actually verbalizing the fact that he cannot breathe. 540 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: He has an awareness that he cannot breathe. Let that 541 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: sink in just for a second. This guy knows he's 542 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: running out of oxygen. Even in an inebriated state, he 543 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: knows that he's running out of oxygen. But yet, you know, 544 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: you can hear in the video which sounds like her, 545 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: that she continues to taunt and so you wonder, you know, well, 546 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: how how did he come about the blunt force trauma? 547 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: Was it again, heart and parcel of this kind of 548 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: terrorizing him as he's encased inside of this this this 549 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: soft sided bag, it is not beyond reason to think 550 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: that you could either be punched through the bag or 551 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,439 Speaker 1: stomped on or bounced upon. And keep in mind, he's 552 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: tightly pressed to the floor even though he's contained in 553 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: his bag. If he has any space whatsoever, you might 554 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: have maybe what's referred to as a coup or contract 555 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,839 Speaker 1: coup injury, where you have been struck in the head 556 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: on one side and the energy kind of travels through 557 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: the brain, that energy travels to the other side of 558 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: the skull, and you might have a concurrent area of 559 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,959 Speaker 1: hemorrhage on the opposite side of the head from where 560 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: you are actually struck. It's kind of a fascinating manifestation, 561 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: but we don't know that at this point in time. 562 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: But that kind of thing can happen in this environment. 563 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: And so again, uh, it's gonna be interesting to hear 564 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,839 Speaker 1: the forensic pathologists talk about this at trial is coming 565 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 1: up in November. Sarah Boone at one point told police 566 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: that Torres had been able to stick two fingers out 567 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: of the suitcase, so she thought he'd have no problems 568 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: getting himself free. And I was thinking myself that as 569 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: many times as I've used a zipper in clothes, they 570 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 1: fail often. So wouldn't you think that it should have 571 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: been or would have been easy to get out of 572 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: the suitcase? Joe, Yeah, and there would be evidence of that. 573 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,959 Speaker 1: I would think if if the zipper were in fact 574 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: off of the track, they would closely examine that zipper 575 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: and you know, see if if if it marries up 576 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,800 Speaker 1: with the statement that you've given. The problem is, according 577 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: to the police, is that she's given a number of 578 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: statements and some of the stuff that she says contradicts 579 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: previous statements. And so look, this is the bottom line 580 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: is that the science is gonna win out. You know, 581 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 1: when they examine the suitcase. One of the things that 582 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: they would have closely examined when they finally got the 583 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,320 Speaker 1: suitcase opened up, is what can do? And one was 584 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: his body in And you know we've talked about injuries 585 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: and all that sort of thing, but what I'm talking 586 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: about is the changes after death. Our currency in medical 587 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: legal death investigation is time. That is our currencies is 588 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: as they say, it's the coin of the rent. We 589 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,359 Speaker 1: try to match things up with timelines that were given 590 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: or we try to create or not create. We try 591 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: to assess a timeline based upon what the science is 592 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 1: telling us, and so depended upon his level of rigidity 593 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 1: in his body, rigor mortis, the settling of blood post 594 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: vulnerable avidity, and certainly his body temperature, that's going to 595 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: tell us a lot. Now, I think that body temperature 596 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: will probably be skewed because he's in this kind of contained, 597 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,839 Speaker 1: closed up area. So I don't know that you would 598 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,320 Speaker 1: necessarily get a true reading, but I think that the 599 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: level of rigor mortis is going to be key here. 600 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,280 Speaker 1: And you know how rigid he was at this particular 601 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: time when they found him, because um, here's kind of 602 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: an interesting little aside they are saying. They are actually 603 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,359 Speaker 1: saying that they believe that Mr Torres was in there 604 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: for possibly eleven hours. We know from police reports that 605 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,919 Speaker 1: this couple had a history of domestic violence. Yeah, going 606 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: back for some time, there have been visits by the 607 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: authority out to that location as a result of fights 608 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: that were going on at the residents. When you begin 609 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: to put all of this together and you think about 610 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,760 Speaker 1: what's going to come out at trial relative to their history, 611 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 1: I think that probably the prosecution more than likely we'll 612 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: talk about this and if this is something else that 613 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: can kind of be featured in this in defense might 614 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,240 Speaker 1: use this too. If remember, in any kind of domestic 615 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 1: violence event, if someone has caused a bruise on someone 616 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: or has drawn blood, guess what the police do, Uh, 617 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: they take photographs of that. And it'll be interesting to 618 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,720 Speaker 1: see if those types of photographs exist from previous events 619 00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,800 Speaker 1: and if they are, if they're going to be admitted 620 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: in court, and we'll be able to kind of see 621 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: do a side by side comparison. Did she sustain any 622 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: kind of injuries in the past, maybe at the hands 623 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,720 Speaker 1: of Mr Torres or conversely, did she have a history 624 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,399 Speaker 1: of striking him? And maybe when they call the cops, 625 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: cops like, you know, how'd you get that shiner? Man? Uh? 626 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: You know why is it that you have a bruise 627 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,759 Speaker 1: on your neck? And if those photos exist, and you'll 628 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: see those in court as well, if in fact they 629 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: are admitted into evidence. Sarah Boone's trial, as you said Joe, 630 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,839 Speaker 1: is expected to get underway in November again. She has 631 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: been charged with Torres death. She has not been convicted. 632 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:45,280 Speaker 1: Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan 633 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: and this is body Backs.