Speaker 1: Wind Down Michael Colin and I'm her radio podcast. Hey guys,
Speaker 1: what's up grass? Uh? So, before we just came on here,
Speaker 1: I told Easton, I said I have a new song
Speaker 1: coming for you, and he was just like woo, and
Speaker 1: that was I mean, I'm losing my mind. Um. And
Speaker 1: so I was gonna play a little snippet and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, well, let's press play and then I'll
Speaker 1: do a little D D sneak. But this is like
Speaker 1: the old so I have I have about um probably
Speaker 1: like a million songs that I haven't cut from the past,
Speaker 1: and this this is the one song that I have
Speaker 1: always wanted to cut and I never have. UM. But
Speaker 1: it's not going to be the slow It's just gonna be.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is so. This is before this me singing.
Speaker 1: This is before I got a record deal. Get ready
Speaker 1: for it. This is how much I love the song.
Speaker 1: Would you describe this as a bob It's a slow bop.
Speaker 1: It's nothing, yep, little sneak peak, little sneak peak. Can
Speaker 1: we no, because they're just gonna have to wait. No,
Speaker 1: You're just gonna have to wait. Decent, I'll send it
Speaker 1: to you. At least you have it but it's gonna
Speaker 1: be It's gonna be a lot in that. But I
Speaker 1: mean that rips as it is like if you go faster,
Speaker 1: I might I might explode. But it's a it's a
Speaker 1: good little love, a little love song. But no, it's
Speaker 1: a song that I wrote my old producer that UM
Speaker 1: I used to work with at the label, and I
Speaker 1: was like, am I allowed to cut an old song
Speaker 1: that you guys passed on? And he was like yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like cool, thanks got the green light. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm cutting that. So new music is on the way,
Speaker 1: east On. Just so when do you think we'll be
Speaker 1: able to add that to our playlists and everything? When's
Speaker 1: that going to hit shelves? I'm thinking April, maybe March.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's soon. Yeah, I'm excited for I think
Speaker 1: you're going to play it at the l Ray Theater
Speaker 1: show right, Yes, I am, which we're coming to hey
Speaker 1: Easton actually, so wind downs going on the road. We're
Speaker 1: going to Texas the first UM the first week of March.
Speaker 1: We're doing UM San Antonio, Austin, Houston, Dallas and it's
Speaker 1: going to be a lot of fun and you know
Speaker 1: it's not recorded, but we just hang out we just
Speaker 1: kind of interact with people, and at the end of
Speaker 1: the show, I sing. But we're also at the end
Speaker 1: of March, coming to Sacramento in Los Angeles and Easton.
Speaker 1: Would you like to pay a guest? I would love
Speaker 1: to be a dream come true. Thank you. Maybe we
Speaker 1: could even have like an Eastern duet. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I mean I was just wondering if I should buy
Speaker 1: a ticket or not. I was like, can I get
Speaker 1: you know, you got me on the list for the
Speaker 1: House of Blues and you were so nice to do that,
Speaker 1: But I don't want to assume that I can get
Speaker 1: that going forward. Jane, I'm about to buy a ticket,
Speaker 1: but I would I would be so honored to be
Speaker 1: part of the show. Thank you so much, Well everybody.
Speaker 1: I should definitely then go to Janna Cramber dot com
Speaker 1: to get their wine down tickets to also see Eastern
Speaker 1: at the l Ray Theater. Mark would come, but he, um,
Speaker 1: it's past his hest kids, right. Oh yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: like going places and doing things. You're like me on
Speaker 1: a regular basis, Yeah, exactly. Um, do you have a
Speaker 1: new bop coming out? Mike? Uh No, I don't, right,
Speaker 1: you sing all the time? I do sing all the time,
Speaker 1: which is funny. Someone actually, someone just asked me recently,
Speaker 1: who was it. I don't remember. They're like, does Jane
Speaker 1: just seeing all the time like at home? And uh
Speaker 1: I was like, no, Actually, I'm the one that sings
Speaker 1: all the time and I have a terrible voice. That's
Speaker 1: not true. You have a really good voice. And it's
Speaker 1: just but it's just funny that the people that like
Speaker 1: you that can sing and do professionally don't sing at home.
Speaker 1: Described Ken, it's I don't know, platinum selling singles. Gay, Okay, okay, anyways,
Speaker 1: what's going on? N handle the compliment, okay, Michigan right now.
Speaker 1: But I'm just think it's funny that the people that
Speaker 1: can't sing are the ones that are singing, and the
Speaker 1: ones that actually can don't at home. You know what
Speaker 1: Michael's bop is right now? Mark, since you said Bob
Speaker 1: Michaels were all obsessed with the Greatest Showman soundtrack, I
Speaker 1: mean him and Jolie. Oh I love it, like so
Speaker 1: good the amount of time, so good that they're running
Speaker 1: around the house doing like singing those songs, which what's
Speaker 1: your favorite one that you always sing? Come Alive is great?
Speaker 1: I mean, the Greatest Showman's um, the one between zac
Speaker 1: Afron and Hugh Jackman enough his Fantastic Sick that's like
Speaker 1: the ballad when Julie hangs on the railing on the stairs,
Speaker 1: and like you did this spin where he wiped out
Speaker 1: the other night. Doing it was what I would have
Speaker 1: given to have, Like my phone, I wear my socks
Speaker 1: and I'm just like doing power slides and moonwalk and
Speaker 1: all over the the kitchen and stuff. And I feel
Speaker 1: like I have to ice my knee every time I'm
Speaker 1: done dancing because we just go at it and stuff.
Speaker 1: Even Jason's like spinning around walking back where it's trying
Speaker 1: to moonwalk. It's so cute. He'll spin and then turn
Speaker 1: around and like walk back where it's like he's been walking.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. My kids went through a Greatest Showman Face two,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't nearly as long as the Frozen Face,
Speaker 1: and I wanted it to keep going. It shouldn't have
Speaker 1: ended because I'm with Mike. I love that entire soundtrack.
Speaker 1: The other side is the one you're referring to because
Speaker 1: it got to be sad. As a former professional athlete,
Speaker 1: there's not as ice as knee. I've been dancing to
Speaker 1: a huge Jackman songs. It's so bad. But you know,
Speaker 1: I told Janna too after I saw this movie, and
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with a soundtrack. I know Janna and I
Speaker 1: had this discussion before, but I love the bringing up
Speaker 1: with all of us right now. And I'll go ahead
Speaker 1: and I'll start by by answering my own question because
Speaker 1: I'm that excited about it. So, if there's any kind
Speaker 1: of genre movie, what kind of movie would you like
Speaker 1: to be? In mind before anyone goes is I would
Speaker 1: love to be in any kind of military like Lone
Speaker 1: survivor Thirteen Hours, any kind of type of military, you know,
Speaker 1: shooting shoot him up, a movie like that. Or my
Speaker 1: second we're doing we're doing it like I'm just I
Speaker 1: just have to say this. My second, on the complete
Speaker 1: opposite side of the spectrum, is to be in like
Speaker 1: the greatest Showman type musical movie with dance numbers and
Speaker 1: all that stuff. I would love it that. I mean,
Speaker 1: one of your best friends is one of the biggest
Speaker 1: casting in directors in Hollywood, So it's like, just just
Speaker 1: tell them that's what you want to do, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure I'll put you in one of those movies. This
Speaker 1: is true, And if you don't mind having like your
Speaker 1: wife like on like where's the hook? I'm here? Um,
Speaker 1: well that's cool. So I think that's pretty neat. Yeah, Eastern,
Speaker 1: I want to hear yours next. Oh man, Um, I
Speaker 1: too love musicals. I would love to be I would
Speaker 1: love to. I would love to say I just want
Speaker 1: to sing a dance, That's all I want. I mean,
Speaker 1: i'd like to be in a superhero movie. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd like I'd like to put on a super suit
Speaker 1: and fly around and blow up bad guys. And I
Speaker 1: could see you being in like a dead Pool. I
Speaker 1: would love to. I would love to be a met
Speaker 1: a superhero. I'd love to break some fourth walls, you know, Mark,
Speaker 1: I'm real curious to know what yours is. I think
Speaker 1: i'd like to be in like a sports movie, like
Speaker 1: a baseball player in a sports movie. I think that'd
Speaker 1: be pretty neat because that's a fantasy of mine because
Speaker 1: I can't do anything athletically, like literally nothing really, and
Speaker 1: growing up I would go out for literally because I
Speaker 1: love baseball with such a passion and I was always
Speaker 1: the one of the through in right field and bad
Speaker 1: and laughs, because I couldn't hit the ball. I was
Speaker 1: so bad. But on a movie that I could be amazing,
Speaker 1: I would say that interesting. I love it. I mean,
Speaker 1: take a guest, guys, what do you think? I know
Speaker 1: the answer Eastern Mark. Well, this is where because you're
Speaker 1: an actual actress in movies. But I've never been in
Speaker 1: a certain type of movie. I've always wanted to be in.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, you're a You're a big city girl that
Speaker 1: goes home to a small I've done five thousand of Who,
Speaker 1: five thousand and one, I got another one coming soon.
Speaker 1: It's not that it's not a romantic. If I could
Speaker 1: go back, it would be. Well, there's two things since
Speaker 1: Mike did too. The first one is pride and prejudice.
Speaker 1: I want to Mr Darcy so bad. Well, that's a
Speaker 1: good one. A period like what a dream like Dreamboat?
Speaker 1: That movie is just my everything. And honestly, for the
Speaker 1: longest time, I was like, where's my Mr Ducie right here?
Speaker 1: And so then and then um, I kind of want
Speaker 1: to play like remember that movie with Ben Affleck and
Speaker 1: Blake Lively. Oh my gosh, I'm forgetting the movie now
Speaker 1: where she's like a total drug the town. I would
Speaker 1: want to be Blake Lively in the town drug addicted,
Speaker 1: I do. I think it'd be just like I don't know,
Speaker 1: trash and I just want to just I want to
Speaker 1: be I want to be Alex from One Tree Hill
Speaker 1: on like steroids it. Yeah, so that's I mean, I'd
Speaker 1: love to see that. I think that would be fun
Speaker 1: or or or and he it was like times, like
Speaker 1: you know about time that was so good with Rachel mcgadhams.
Speaker 1: I just want to I just would like to work.
Speaker 1: I told I told Janna this, and this is I
Speaker 1: feel like Janna sells herself short when it comes to
Speaker 1: her capabilities as an actress. And I was watching this
Speaker 1: uh behind the scenes thing on john Wick three and
Speaker 1: where Halle Berry was being interviewed and just watching how
Speaker 1: Hallie Berry go through the training and everything. I was like,
Speaker 1: that's just Janna And I told you after I saw it,
Speaker 1: I was like, you need to put yourself out there,
Speaker 1: get out of your comfort zone because you're hard working.
Speaker 1: Dedication when you are into something or like on a
Speaker 1: on a project or on a job is so intense.
Speaker 1: Like you would kick ass in that training, you would
Speaker 1: kick ass in the physical you know, requirements needed for
Speaker 1: a role like that, and you can be very intimidating.
Speaker 1: Your little cute self can be very intimidating. I've seen it,
Speaker 1: so I was like, you can do that stuff, and
Speaker 1: I really think you should. You should try. I know,
Speaker 1: anytime my agents sent me like a cop, I'm like
Speaker 1: nol pass because I just feel so silly to be
Speaker 1: like put him up or if you do like that,
Speaker 1: Like like I know that if I was on set
Speaker 1: and I was in the costume and I had the gun,
Speaker 1: like I could be badass, but in the audition, I'd
Speaker 1: be like put them up, put him up, put them up,
Speaker 1: freeze crazy. Every every person should be acting with be
Speaker 1: like all right, here's a face mask. It's a picture
Speaker 1: of my husband. Wear this. Stop stop. Like we said
Speaker 1: in therapy, were not going to make jokes. Now you're
Speaker 1: making jokes, so you can that. I can't. No, I'm
Speaker 1: not making jokes out here. We go and then we're
Speaker 1: taking a turn. No one that everybody. That was a
Speaker 1: fun game like that. Um oh, I'm really excited. We
Speaker 1: have a really really cool guest on today. UM. Her
Speaker 1: name is Susan Stiffleman, and she's a badass. Um for
Speaker 1: over thirty years, Susan has worked with families to create
Speaker 1: greater harmony and deeper connection between parents and children, which
Speaker 1: I think is awesome. And then I was on her
Speaker 1: website to an Eckhart Toll Lana's Marsett like they've all
Speaker 1: get just like saying her praises so um. She's got
Speaker 1: a lot of great books out there to parenting without
Speaker 1: power struggles raising joyful, resilient kids while staying cool, calm
Speaker 1: and connected like hella um. So I'm excited to talk
Speaker 1: to her. Should we take an email before we talked
Speaker 1: to Susan? Oh? I love it. Early email, early email.
Speaker 1: We'll see Janet has issues in the bedroom. Janet says,
Speaker 1: actually said, it's very nice things at the top here
Speaker 1: that I'd like to share with you. She says, Hey girl,
Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan. I've loved you since One Tree Hill.
Speaker 1: I have fallen in love with your podcast. They're so
Speaker 1: informative and funny and make my day. That's sweet. That's
Speaker 1: very sweet. Anyway, thank you, she says. Okay, So when
Speaker 1: my husband and I started dating, I wanted sex more
Speaker 1: than him, and over the years the roles have reversed.
Speaker 1: Now he wants it way more than me. I have
Speaker 1: a sixteen year old and a three year old, and
Speaker 1: I work a full time job, and at night I
Speaker 1: rock my son to sleep. That's like our mommy and
Speaker 1: sun time, and then I lay him down, and then
Speaker 1: it's time to clean up toys. And then by the
Speaker 1: time I get to bed, all I want to do
Speaker 1: is sleep. I love, love, love my husband. I just
Speaker 1: don't know what to do, so I can relate on
Speaker 1: both sides. Having said that, I feel like when you're
Speaker 1: that tired, because I get it. At the end of
Speaker 1: the day, it's so tiring, but if it's been longer
Speaker 1: than a certain period, you just gotta do it. I
Speaker 1: think that's just my It's just just like your relationship
Speaker 1: is work. That involves work in the bedroom too. Whether
Speaker 1: sometimes you want to have the conversations and it's like
Speaker 1: you don't want to fight, you don't want to have
Speaker 1: the deep, drawn out conversations. But that's kind of like sex.
Speaker 1: You don't really want to have sex, but you gotta
Speaker 1: do it because it's part of it's part of the relationship,
Speaker 1: it's a part of what. But I'm just saying like
Speaker 1: it's a part of what the man needs. It's a
Speaker 1: part of whether you want to or not. You know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like you just have to give a
Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, but is that I mean, I feel
Speaker 1: like that's a very I mean, husbands are nodding their
Speaker 1: head and they're thrilled with that answer. But is that
Speaker 1: the right answer? Is it the right today? Whatever? I've
Speaker 1: heard some women say that if you want to keep
Speaker 1: your man happy, give it to him whenever he wants.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that, not whenever. I don't think whenever,
Speaker 1: because I think that beats a dead horse. Like especially,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be giving something that you don't want whenever
Speaker 1: he wants. It's just a hey if whatever they come
Speaker 1: up with, maybe how what what is enough for for him?
Speaker 1: Or that's also okay for her, Like hey, I don't
Speaker 1: want to do it every week, but I could do
Speaker 1: it every two weeks. You know that way, it's like
Speaker 1: they kind of have this agreement. Doesn't make it as
Speaker 1: fun and as romantic, but when you get that far
Speaker 1: into marriage, it's kind of like all right, but then
Speaker 1: also do fun ways to spice it up, like maybe
Speaker 1: if he would not do it so um routine, like
Speaker 1: maybe if or maybe she'd want to do it too,
Speaker 1: like maybe not the end of the day, like maybe hey,
Speaker 1: a little like lunch call, fun time. That's what I
Speaker 1: was thinking. Has changed up the time a little bit
Speaker 1: because sometimes first thing in the morning, before the kids
Speaker 1: wake up, might be a better option because for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: or yeah, maybe middle of the day, somehow you can
Speaker 1: make it happen. That's probably a better idea, only because
Speaker 1: I don't like whatever he wants, you know, if he
Speaker 1: wants to do it, you know, I don't know. It
Speaker 1: just doesn't feel it's it kind of feels wrong to me.
Speaker 1: I agree with that too. I agree with it. It's
Speaker 1: not whenever he wants, but there are times get a timeline.
Speaker 1: I almost feel like, and then discuss that. What do
Speaker 1: you think, Mike, I think, Uh. The way I received
Speaker 1: your point was I liked the comparison to just like,
Speaker 1: you have to have conversations and talk about problems and
Speaker 1: conflict in in marriage, in relationships, that's part of a
Speaker 1: necessity that you have to do um and you know,
Speaker 1: sex is part of the physical connection intimacy of relationships.
Speaker 1: So it's just like Janna said, that takes work as
Speaker 1: well as everything else intellectually and emotionally. So it's just
Speaker 1: one of those things you got to consider that. It's
Speaker 1: not it's not something where it should just be taking
Speaker 1: off the table like I'm just too tired for a month.
Speaker 1: Why can't you understand I'm tired. But eventually you have
Speaker 1: to I don't have to do anything, but you should.
Speaker 1: I mean, you should want to connect with your partner,
Speaker 1: you should want to please them and do those things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just part of It's just part of it all.
Speaker 1: It's part of marriage, is part of work, working on
Speaker 1: the relationship. I mean, yeah, it's just funny because when
Speaker 1: I was talking to an errand my trainer has been
Speaker 1: so open about her sex life and how you know,
Speaker 1: she even said it on our podcast that they don't
Speaker 1: really have sex a lot to every like six months
Speaker 1: or something like that. And in you know, in my mind,
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, what is that? What is that lack
Speaker 1: of intimacy than due to the relationship or is it okay?
Speaker 1: And that's just what works for them, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: that is just what works for both of them, which
Speaker 1: is far Yeah, which is totally fine, But I think
Speaker 1: just figuring out what works for each other where that
Speaker 1: the girl isn't just compromising or the guy isn't just
Speaker 1: compromising like himself? Like kind of too your part point
Speaker 1: where you were saying Mark, you know, not having to
Speaker 1: compromise like no one's kneeds are put above somebody else's right. Yeah, interesting?
Speaker 1: Do you have another one before season clo. Let's see.
Speaker 1: Let's see. Kelsey has some suggestions for us. So, she says,
Speaker 1: she heard you talking to Joe Frost super Nanny, and
Speaker 1: one of the you mentioned your issues with night training,
Speaker 1: potty training at night, w a pain in the acctive
Speaker 1: to change the sheets at three am. Well, she has
Speaker 1: a hack for you. She says, all you need a
Speaker 1: two mattress protectors and two fitted sheets. Just make the
Speaker 1: bed twice as it were. Then when an action occurs,
Speaker 1: you stumble into your child's room half asleep. You strip
Speaker 1: the first layer away and behold, the second layer is
Speaker 1: already there, nice and clean and dry. Hope this helps,
Speaker 1: and still give me a shout out. Shout out Kelsey
Speaker 1: and the other one. She wanted to mention her favorite
Speaker 1: Birds and the Bees book. Her daughter is five and
Speaker 1: she is the most educated and informed for her age.
Speaker 1: The book explains where babies come from in an age
Speaker 1: appropriate manner. It's called It's Not the Stork, a book
Speaker 1: about girls, boys, babies, bodies and friends. Interesting. I like
Speaker 1: the double sheet thing. I never really thought about that.
Speaker 1: Usually I just put down those crab protector squares. But
Speaker 1: I like the double the double sheet crib or mattress protector.
Speaker 1: That's kind of great. And like the princess and the piece,
Speaker 1: she just gets higher and higher and higher. I know
Speaker 1: that you do. You know it's your go for it.
Speaker 1: That that double sheet thing. I just it's been a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks since I've went the bed, but the
Speaker 1: that double sheet thing went viral on the internet a
Speaker 1: couple like six months ago. It was like, hey, if
Speaker 1: you hate doing laundry, you hate making your bed, just
Speaker 1: like put like three or four sheets down, then when
Speaker 1: one gets dirty, you take it off and then you're
Speaker 1: you're good to go. Like you do it in advance.
Speaker 1: But my personal opinion is I think bodily fluids can
Speaker 1: soak through. I don't think when sheet is going to
Speaker 1: do the job, Well, that's the mattress protector. That's I'm
Speaker 1: still against it. I'm still against The man is spoken,
Speaker 1: he's against it. So they were saying to do that
Speaker 1: like as adults, like just put on multiple fittage adults.
Speaker 1: What about pellow cases. Yeah, this person doesn't seem to care.
Speaker 1: I guess that's the worst of it for me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: those other sheets are are just as offensive. I think. Hey, Mark,
Speaker 1: question for you, Yes, where have you guys gone? And
Speaker 1: the family vacation? Um? We The hard thing for us
Speaker 1: is that all of my wife's family, and she has
Speaker 1: a large family, and they're all in Wisconsin, and so
Speaker 1: whenever we have an opportunity to take time off, we
Speaker 1: pretty much go to Wisconsin. We've also visited and visited
Speaker 1: my sister in Seattle. As far as straight up family vacations,
Speaker 1: they've been few and far between. But we've done San
Speaker 1: Diego a bunch of times. And gosh, is that it?
Speaker 1: That's sad? If that's it, Sorry, I didn't like we
Speaker 1: did Mexico was part of Arta once. Yeah, there's not
Speaker 1: been a lot because when we have time off, we
Speaker 1: had to Wisconsin. And it's also tough being down here
Speaker 1: in the lower corner of the country. It's like Vegas,
Speaker 1: San Diego, San Francisco. Otherwise you got a long trip
Speaker 1: ahead of you. And now that's what we were kind of.
Speaker 1: So I'm starting to have anxiety just from the amount
Speaker 1: of like stuff that's pilot on this year, and I
Speaker 1: hate being away from the kids. Like I I personally
Speaker 1: like to travel with the kids. Mike doesn't like to
Speaker 1: travel with the kids. Um, and so it's that kind
Speaker 1: of battle but between us both because I I I
Speaker 1: personally would like to bring them on the tour and
Speaker 1: I would like to, um, you know, maybe then stay
Speaker 1: when we're in l A for a week or so
Speaker 1: and have the kids here, and then I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we can then go to the beach and then you know,
Speaker 1: do some this, and and um, you know, he's just
Speaker 1: more of like, you know, don't get the kids out
Speaker 1: of the routine, which I understand. But then also I
Speaker 1: have the I'm left with the mom guilt of being
Speaker 1: away and being away so much and having to like
Speaker 1: fly to things and not taking them with me. So
Speaker 1: it's just been like really really weighing on me. And
Speaker 1: then so I was like, well, can we at least
Speaker 1: plan a family vacation where it's just us for it's
Speaker 1: not you know, going to Michigan or Virginia and it's
Speaker 1: just I mean, it's just us for as a family
Speaker 1: and we go somewhere and that way I have something
Speaker 1: to almost look forward to in a way, knowing that
Speaker 1: I was going to have like this great quality time.
Speaker 1: It's so expensive to travel as a family. Four good.
Speaker 1: I'm like, but it's like the flights. I mean, we
Speaker 1: even just planned our Fourth of July to go to
Speaker 1: Michigan and we had to cut costs and we're flying
Speaker 1: one place and then running a car here to go
Speaker 1: to a to be because I'm like, how like now
Speaker 1: I see when my parents we didn't travel as much.
Speaker 1: It's so expensive and I just can't rationalize paying too
Speaker 1: grand for airfare and then then the hotels and I'm
Speaker 1: like ten tho dollars for just a king room and
Speaker 1: at Atlantis, like what, so, have any suggestions for a
Speaker 1: nice family I'd like a beach, preferably um email the
Speaker 1: podcast with some great family vacation ideas Eastern what's our
Speaker 1: email address? That's wine down And I hurt radio dot
Speaker 1: Com because I really would like to do Atlantis, but
Speaker 1: it's so expensive. It is And also came in mind,
Speaker 1: I understand not wanting to break the kids from the
Speaker 1: routine because they have a hard time with that but
Speaker 1: if you never ever break them from the routine, you're
Speaker 1: never going to be able to break them. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be that much more traumatic because you're gonna have to someday.
Speaker 1: And if they've never been broken of it, I think
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a real hard time for that. Yes,
Speaker 1: but nope, nope, nope, nod. Also it's yes and or
Speaker 1: yes also yes. Also, um My thing I was talking
Speaker 1: to buddy about a buddy of mine about it the
Speaker 1: other day is when they're this young, they're not going
Speaker 1: to remember the experience yet. I totally disagree with you, Joe.
Speaker 1: That's such a great age. Yes, Jolie is starting to
Speaker 1: be at that age. But it's depending on where we're going.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, beach trip, cool, Disney World awesome, But
Speaker 1: you know, here's my Devil's overseas or out of the
Speaker 1: country or anything like that. Like it's not they won't remember,
Speaker 1: but when we travel, like we are capable of bringing
Speaker 1: them with us for work, and right now they're not
Speaker 1: in school. So in my mind, I'm like, we're not
Speaker 1: going to then take them out when they're in school,
Speaker 1: because it's like then I'm going to have you being like,
Speaker 1: well we can't miss any days of school and there
Speaker 1: are attendants. So it's like, now is the time that
Speaker 1: I can have that, that we can have that time
Speaker 1: together with the kids, because in a year and a half,
Speaker 1: Julie is going to be an elementary school and Joelie
Speaker 1: is not going to be able to miss any days
Speaker 1: of school. Because you know, I get that you're wanting
Speaker 1: to be like strict about school, but right now, like
Speaker 1: now is the time I'm gonna meet me now halfway
Speaker 1: where it's like, let's let them travel with us and
Speaker 1: and be a part of our routine and have to
Speaker 1: make those memories. And yeah, Jason isn't going to remember,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to remember having that time with him
Speaker 1: and not being away and traveling so much. They're going
Speaker 1: to see the pictures in the videos, which will at
Speaker 1: least if they don't remember it, they'll think they do
Speaker 1: because of all the pictures and videos. It's not like
Speaker 1: when we were kids. Damn you Mark exactly, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's like that time, like Jason, this is our
Speaker 1: last kid, Like he's so precious and and Jolie's so
Speaker 1: fun right now and in no time, literally in a
Speaker 1: year and a half, she will be gone every single
Speaker 1: day at school, every single day, and then we're gonna
Speaker 1: be working around her schedule to go on family vacations
Speaker 1: because you don't want to take them out of school.
Speaker 1: I hear you, and you make valid points. My question
Speaker 1: of that is, where's it come in when you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like when we talk about finances and recently,
Speaker 1: because this January wasn't as good as last January, you're
Speaker 1: freaking out, and so we wanted to be very cost conscious.
Speaker 1: Was understandable. But then when it comes to, oh no,
Speaker 1: but let's travel with the kids and buy four tickets
Speaker 1: and you know, do all these things, it's like not
Speaker 1: a big deal, like money still money. I totally hear
Speaker 1: you in valid point. In my mind, though, when it's
Speaker 1: with the kids, I don't give a crap because I'm
Speaker 1: with my babies. I'll pay the extra or whatever to
Speaker 1: be with my babies because there you know that time
Speaker 1: is so precious. And then I'll have I'm working and
Speaker 1: I don't have mom guilt like I have them with me.
Speaker 1: How cool is that? I don't even care. That's why
Speaker 1: I didn't even care about doing the airbnb for a
Speaker 1: week and a half in l A, which we're all
Speaker 1: doing now because dud like just like like just our
Speaker 1: nanny Kylie. She's even like, oh, She's like, hey, we
Speaker 1: should and we should try to, you know, convince dad.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, honey, I'm already on it,
Speaker 1: like I'm already trying hie up in both the years,
Speaker 1: trying to be come on that that can we go
Speaker 1: can go here? Can we go there? And then it's
Speaker 1: like and I have to go back to Kyle and
Speaker 1: be like he said no to the l A trip
Speaker 1: and they're like, damn it, Dad, But now I think
Speaker 1: I got you there with this whole school thing. You made.
Speaker 1: You made a valid point of the school thing, and
Speaker 1: I'll be more lenient moving forward after the l A
Speaker 1: trip hashtag win. It's interesting you already know you're going
Speaker 1: to have conflict over Janna wanting to pull them out
Speaker 1: of school and Mike never wanted to because are I
Speaker 1: already feel that? That's why I'm like, okay, now, then
Speaker 1: give me it right now so that I then don't
Speaker 1: I'll then respect you more with what you want, but
Speaker 1: yet I won't pull you as much. I just love
Speaker 1: having like Jolie was my road dog man. She was
Speaker 1: with me since she was six weeks old on the
Speaker 1: road on a bus, toured with me everywhere I went,
Speaker 1: went to New York with me, strolling around, did dancing
Speaker 1: the start like she was. She's she's like my roadie
Speaker 1: and I miss like I miss I miss having my
Speaker 1: kids with me when I'm out doesn't feel it doesn't
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel as good. At what point? And this
Speaker 1: isn't this isn't directed towards you, This is just on
Speaker 1: this general topic of discussion. I have a great point
Speaker 1: to this some so at what point and this is
Speaker 1: and Dr Stiffelman is ready and we can maybe touched
Speaker 1: on this after. But my my question is, at what
Speaker 1: point does it become selfish to want to bring them everywhere?
Speaker 1: I think they're experiencing new places. I talked to one
Speaker 1: of Rascal Flats's daughter, who was on the road since
Speaker 1: she was a baby, and I pulled her aside when
Speaker 1: I saw her just a couple of months ago, and
Speaker 1: I said, how is it? I just want to know
Speaker 1: it from your point of view, how is it growing
Speaker 1: up on a bus? And she goes, it was the
Speaker 1: coolest experience of my life. And she's like, I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm more UM, I feel like I'm more mature.
Speaker 1: I've seen so many amazing places and she's and I
Speaker 1: was like, awesome, cool, thanks, that's what I needed to
Speaker 1: How old is She's fifteen? Right, so she had some
Speaker 1: formidable years where she was out on the road experiencing that. Right.
Speaker 1: The kids aren't that old to be experiencing No, she was.
Speaker 1: She started as a baby, so she grew up. She
Speaker 1: didn't really remember until she totally did. She thousand percent
Speaker 1: remember every second of it. Okay, let's take a break
Speaker 1: and talk to Dr Stiffleman. Okay, so excited. We have
Speaker 1: Dr Susan Stiffleman on the phone. Hey Susan, Hi, fine, thanks,
Speaker 1: nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on our podcast. Um. But Susan,
Speaker 1: you are a marriage and family therapist and even working
Speaker 1: for over thirty years. Um, what do you have? Um? Like,
Speaker 1: what's your background? How did you get into family therapy?
Speaker 1: I was actually a teacher first, and after being a
Speaker 1: teacher for a long time, and I was always a
Speaker 1: little bit of a renegade, understanding that not every child work,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of process or in took in information
Speaker 1: in the same way and yet we were asking kids
Speaker 1: to sort of do the cookie cutter thing, And so
Speaker 1: I became more interested in alternative ways of learning and
Speaker 1: processing and the various forms of intelligence. And that sort
Speaker 1: of led me to see that a lot of kids
Speaker 1: who are having trouble in academic ways showed up with
Speaker 1: emotional issues or vice versa. Kids who are having emotional
Speaker 1: issues might manifest it by having trouble with school or homework.
Speaker 1: And so I ended up becoming a family therapist to
Speaker 1: address both sides of the picture, both the emotional and
Speaker 1: psychological as well as the more educational and academic. And
Speaker 1: one thing led to another. I started to do workshops
Speaker 1: and found myself deciding that really parents could get further
Speaker 1: with some of the ideas I was teaching if they
Speaker 1: learned some of the strategy instead of sending me their
Speaker 1: kids to be fixed. So um, that kind of led
Speaker 1: me to doing workshops in the books and things like that. Um,
Speaker 1: I do you know, I have worked with children directly
Speaker 1: for decades, but more commonly, I found that when you
Speaker 1: help parents make some shifts in how they're approaching their
Speaker 1: their kids, you know how they're coming, helping them come
Speaker 1: alongside their kids rather than coming at them in a
Speaker 1: more adversarial way and letting go of some of the
Speaker 1: patterns that they inherited from their own childhood. That that
Speaker 1: you just get you know, everybody's happy, or kids are
Speaker 1: more cooperative, parents who are more connected with their kids,
Speaker 1: and vice versa. Absolutely, And that brings me to a
Speaker 1: question I wanted to ask Susan, is when you start
Speaker 1: working with these parents, are many of them able to
Speaker 1: acknowledge or realize the traits that they received from their parents?
Speaker 1: And are they do they have these moments where like, oh,
Speaker 1: my gosh, like I'm acting like my dad or I'm
Speaker 1: acting like my mom, or does that help them realize
Speaker 1: and kind of change that way. I love that you're
Speaker 1: asking that because it's not the conventional approach, But I
Speaker 1: do find that a lot of our own stuff gets
Speaker 1: triggered and brought to the surface when we're parenting, you know.
Speaker 1: So we might have swore up and down, I'm never
Speaker 1: going to yell at my kids, I'm never going to
Speaker 1: shame them, I'm never going to threaten them, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to use bribes the way my parents did. And
Speaker 1: then in the heat of the moment that you're doing
Speaker 1: the exact same thing, and you're almost watching yourself like
Speaker 1: who is this person? What words are coming out of
Speaker 1: my mouth? And yeah, And so when parents are kind
Speaker 1: of open to understanding that we have so deeply internalized
Speaker 1: the the patterns and the approaches that our parents used
Speaker 1: with us, then it takes some of the kind of
Speaker 1: guilt and shame out of parenting, which I'm a huge
Speaker 1: anti fan of, like we're so mean to ourselves when
Speaker 1: we lose our way as parents, And in my community
Speaker 1: and my work, I'm really about kindness and understanding and compassion,
Speaker 1: not only towards our kids, but towards ourselves off for
Speaker 1: sort of stumbling along here, especially when we have difficult childhood.
Speaker 1: There's no way that it's not gonna manifest in one
Speaker 1: moment or another when we're stressed or tired or or
Speaker 1: you know, overwhelmed. So it's really reassuring when parents are
Speaker 1: open to the possibility that, yes, number one, they're doing
Speaker 1: what their parents did to them even though they can't
Speaker 1: believe it and they promised not to. And also that
Speaker 1: um allowing that to just be so is the first
Speaker 1: step to making some shifts and being more intentional about
Speaker 1: doing it differently. What age do kids start to feel
Speaker 1: the tension between parents if there's conflict between the parents birth.
Speaker 1: I think kids are incredibly tuned in to us. I
Speaker 1: mean it's it's a survival mechanism for a child who's
Speaker 1: dependent on their caregiver to look after them and meet
Speaker 1: their needs. Given how helpless children are, you know, human
Speaker 1: babies are that there's a heightened sense of awareness and attunement.
Speaker 1: Now the child, you know, one year old may not
Speaker 1: say I sent a lot of tension between you and mommy,
Speaker 1: but um, we have seen that kids do um absorb
Speaker 1: a lot and observe a lot. And it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that parents shouldn't have conflict or fight. It's part of
Speaker 1: the dance, isn't it. But um, Sometimes, even in very
Speaker 1: young children, if you if you and your partner have
Speaker 1: just had an argument or things are a little rocky,
Speaker 1: and the child seems more distressed or or a little
Speaker 1: more temperamental or crying more, and you think maybe there's
Speaker 1: they've picked up on something, you can just say, sweetheart,
Speaker 1: you know, daddy and I love each other so much,
Speaker 1: and you know you might be feeling that we were
Speaker 1: a little impatient with each other today, even with a
Speaker 1: child who's not going to process that verbally because they're
Speaker 1: too little. I think it's a great, great thing, just
Speaker 1: setting a trajectory of we don't hide our feelings in
Speaker 1: this family. We don't run from them or sweep them
Speaker 1: under the rug. To say yes, sometimes being a grown
Speaker 1: up or married or human is is a little bit
Speaker 1: of a rocky ride, and we'll be fine. And you know,
Speaker 1: what you're feeling is what you're feeling, and we're not
Speaker 1: pretending otherwise. Kids, then it's okay for them to see
Speaker 1: bouts of conflict. You know, we prefer that children not
Speaker 1: be a witness to ongoing arguments between parents. It's always
Speaker 1: best if you can, you know, have it. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe you give each other a look and you're really
Speaker 1: unhappy with something that your partner did or said, and
Speaker 1: the kids are in your midst and you kind of
Speaker 1: have your code word, like you know, peacock feather, and
Speaker 1: that's an indication like I'm not done with this right,
Speaker 1: but um it is. I think that it's there's going
Speaker 1: to be time still when your child witnesses you guys
Speaker 1: giving dirty looks, are saying, well, I don't want to
Speaker 1: do without or no, I hate that restaurant or why
Speaker 1: why did you give her cookies right before dinner? That's
Speaker 1: just part of being human and we can aspire to never,
Speaker 1: you know, have conflict in front of our children, But
Speaker 1: I think that we can help help them make meaning
Speaker 1: of it in a way that doesn't leave them wondering.
Speaker 1: You know, where's the floor here? Like? Am I just
Speaker 1: free free floating by acknowledging you know what, Daddy and
Speaker 1: I had a little bit of a disagreement. We love
Speaker 1: each other so much and we don't see eye to
Speaker 1: eye about that thing, and we're going to talk about it,
Speaker 1: and we love each other and we love you, So
Speaker 1: that the child is left knowing also that humans sometimes
Speaker 1: disagree or have conflict and that it's normal and they
Speaker 1: don't have to like pretend that never happens. In general. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't have conflicts, But does that send um? Does
Speaker 1: that send also a bad not bad at all, but
Speaker 1: like does that send a message? Like you know when
Speaker 1: when Jolie, our daughter, she's four, and she goes off
Speaker 1: to have relationships and she's like, well, I never saw
Speaker 1: mommy and daddy fights, and then that's or my mom
Speaker 1: dad fights, so you know, um, it's not right then
Speaker 1: to to have arguments and in a relationship ship, So
Speaker 1: does that set up kind of a bad um what's
Speaker 1: the word for that, like um experience then, like an
Speaker 1: expectation or like a panic, like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy towards my partner, and
Speaker 1: I never saw my parents feeling that way towards each other.
Speaker 1: Is that what you mean? Well, again, you're going to
Speaker 1: have disagreements in front of your children, because that's what
Speaker 1: humans do. We don't always just sort of float along
Speaker 1: gracefully like little saints. So I don't think that. I
Speaker 1: think most children grow up sensing that people do argue
Speaker 1: and disagree. However, you're right, there's some families that were
Speaker 1: parents who work so hard to shield their kids from
Speaker 1: that that the kids can grow up thinking something must
Speaker 1: be wrong here because I'm really having these arguments and
Speaker 1: fights with my husband, and my parents never did. So
Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything wrong with having small disagreements
Speaker 1: in front of your kids, as long as you narrate
Speaker 1: and you acknowledge. You know, Daddy and I don't agree
Speaker 1: about whether it's okay to have have cookies and we're
Speaker 1: I'm a little annoyed with him, and I think he
Speaker 1: might be a little annoyed with me too, And we
Speaker 1: love each other and we love you, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: sort out our difference of opinion so that there at
Speaker 1: least you've laid a little bit of a foundation for
Speaker 1: them to know that this is part of what it's
Speaker 1: like to live with another human being, that there are
Speaker 1: moments when you disagree for sure. And I have a
Speaker 1: kind of a theory around kind of children, and I
Speaker 1: just want to get your professional opinion, Susan. And it's
Speaker 1: you know, with Jane and I have done a ton
Speaker 1: of individual therapy, a ton of couples therapy, and you're
Speaker 1: really with all that work that you do on yourself,
Speaker 1: you really realize how much comes back to your childhood.
Speaker 1: And then as a parent, it terrifies you, right because
Speaker 1: you're then you're just on you know, you know, your
Speaker 1: hands and knees, being like, please, I don't want to
Speaker 1: mess up my kids. And it makes you maybe overthink
Speaker 1: the whole parenting process. Now, my my kind of thought
Speaker 1: process around it is and correct me if I'm just
Speaker 1: completely way off basis, I feel like no matter what
Speaker 1: circumstance or situation. Granted, there's there's some general traits whether
Speaker 1: someone goes through an abuse or neglect or whatever, or abandonment,
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. I'm sure there's similar traits and
Speaker 1: people that have gone through that in their childhood. But
Speaker 1: if you take two separate kids put them in the
Speaker 1: same exact situations, one of them might handle or react
Speaker 1: differently as as an adult than maybe the other one would.
Speaker 1: My reason is just biologically we're all different. So there's
Speaker 1: no one thing of my childhood was this, This is
Speaker 1: all your fault, mom and dad, and you know, And
Speaker 1: people just want to stand on that because I look
Speaker 1: back in my story and with things that I've gone
Speaker 1: through and being in a twelve step program. Now, my
Speaker 1: parents came to me and we're very concerned and we're questioning,
Speaker 1: like what how is this our fault? Like what did
Speaker 1: we do? And I told them I was, look, here's
Speaker 1: what I've learned. Yes, a lot of stuff comes up
Speaker 1: from childhood, but I know now and where I'm at
Speaker 1: that And I used the same story I said, if
Speaker 1: you took someone else, put him in the same childhood
Speaker 1: seam upbringing seam household as me, they could have not
Speaker 1: gone to an addiction, They could have had a different
Speaker 1: issue or no issue at all. So it's just one
Speaker 1: of those things I don't just again from my experience,
Speaker 1: I feel like people that hear that might want to
Speaker 1: blame their parents or whatever, and I just I know,
Speaker 1: I don't blame mine. Yes, they contributed in some ways,
Speaker 1: but all parents do. I very much agree with that.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if you know glenn and Melton,
Speaker 1: but she and I have done a number of parenting
Speaker 1: classes together and she wrote these wonderful books carry On
Speaker 1: Warrior and Love Warrior, and yeah, so we've had so
Speaker 1: much fun together. And Glennon will will say, look, you know,
Speaker 1: she went through so much with addiction and her recovery
Speaker 1: and had this, you know, very loving family and a
Speaker 1: sister who didn't. So I I've seen that a lot
Speaker 1: in my practice working with kids and with families, that
Speaker 1: children will kind of process and absorb challenging childhood in
Speaker 1: different ways. And for instance, I've done a lot of
Speaker 1: work with a population with the trait of heightened sensitivity.
Speaker 1: I've done some classes online with Elaine Aaron, who wrote
Speaker 1: The Highly Sensitive Person, The Highly Sensitive Child. Now, if
Speaker 1: you have that trait, which about of the population has,
Speaker 1: then you will pick up more in your childhood, more tension, more,
Speaker 1: um more. If your parent is anxious or depressed, it
Speaker 1: may have more of an impact on you, and other
Speaker 1: kids might just skate right by that and not be impacted.
Speaker 1: So I I think there's value in looking at your
Speaker 1: childhood and how some of the experiences you went through
Speaker 1: might have informed the challenges or the particular struggles you
Speaker 1: have or things you have to work on. But I
Speaker 1: agree that, um there's no point and no value and
Speaker 1: not even any validity in pointing your finger at your
Speaker 1: parents for the flaw the way they brought you up.
Speaker 1: And in turn, when we're parenting our kids now this
Speaker 1: panic that we're sort of sending them, giving them a
Speaker 1: life sentence because we struggle with depression or anxiety or addiction.
Speaker 1: It's not true. Even if you have a child who's
Speaker 1: somewhat sensitive and who is experiencing the impact, we're different
Speaker 1: parents than our parents. If we're helping the child understand
Speaker 1: you know what, Mommy had a really hard day and
Speaker 1: is really struggling today, and I love you and I'm
Speaker 1: getting support and help. Is there anything you want to
Speaker 1: ask me about it. Are you, you know, so that
Speaker 1: the kids don't We're not sweeping things under the rug
Speaker 1: the way many of our own parents did when there
Speaker 1: was a challenge in the family. Absolutely, and I completely agree,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate your outlook on that, and I the
Speaker 1: way I kind of try to simplify it is just
Speaker 1: it's all that childhood or whatever addiction. It's it's an explanation,
Speaker 1: not an excuse to how people are the way they are.
Speaker 1: But honey, go ahead, how how could we correct anything
Speaker 1: that we've already screwed up? Possibly with our daughter, because
Speaker 1: that's that's my fear, as you know, just because the
Speaker 1: first you know, a couple of years was real rough
Speaker 1: in our marriage and I'm thanking God, you know, is
Speaker 1: this have I already? Then if she's going to remember
Speaker 1: us yelling at each other, you know, we don't do
Speaker 1: it often anymore. Um, there are times we get a
Speaker 1: little heightened, but you know, we've done a better job
Speaker 1: of leaving the room. But it's like crap, Like is
Speaker 1: there a way that I can like fix it and
Speaker 1: go back and and recorrect things? You know, Thank you
Speaker 1: for kind of being real about it, because what's amazing
Speaker 1: is you know, because I'm a family therapist, and for many,
Speaker 1: many years, I was a family therapist in the community
Speaker 1: with you know, in Malibu, California, with some of the
Speaker 1: most wealthy, powerful, famous people in the world, and you know,
Speaker 1: and on cover of magazines looking happy, happy, happy, and
Speaker 1: you know, and the truth is, when you're in my
Speaker 1: line of work, you find out that most people aren't
Speaker 1: living lives the way there's look from the outside. And
Speaker 1: so you know, you might think and feel all this
Speaker 1: shame about Oh my god, we fought in front of
Speaker 1: our daughter. I can't believe that. I know, none of
Speaker 1: my neighbors ever would do that, or you know, all
Speaker 1: the ladies that the you know, it's just not true.
Speaker 1: You you would be really surprised at the truth In
Speaker 1: most families. For sure, there's some where there's a lot
Speaker 1: of peace and ease and great communication, but most of
Speaker 1: us are at least somewhat dysfunctional. And it gets played
Speaker 1: out heavily in your marriage. So when your daughter, you know,
Speaker 1: she was quite young when some of the conflict was
Speaker 1: going on, you're probably not going to be addressing it
Speaker 1: in the way you would if she was ten years
Speaker 1: old when some of the conflict went on, and in
Speaker 1: which case you would say, you know, sweetie, we had
Speaker 1: a bumpy few months there when daddy wasn't staying here
Speaker 1: or and you know, whatever the circumstance about have been.
Speaker 1: Is there anything you want to ask me about that.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that you had to go through that
Speaker 1: and it might have been really unsettling for you. And
Speaker 1: I'm here to answer any questions. The biggest thing that
Speaker 1: children need isn't to be sheltered from conflict or difficulty.
Speaker 1: It's to have the freedom and know that their parent
Speaker 1: is sturdy enough and big enough. And you know, in
Speaker 1: my work, I talked about being that captain of the ship,
Speaker 1: captain the enough that whatever is sort of worrying them
Speaker 1: or disturbing them, they can bring it to us so
Speaker 1: they don't have to hide it from us. They don't
Speaker 1: have to try and in their own strange way process
Speaker 1: things or make sense of things. That's where we get
Speaker 1: into trouble with a child who might have encountered that. Proverbally,
Speaker 1: if the behavior seems to be showing up, there's wonderful
Speaker 1: ways that are not like traditional therapy, Like I like
Speaker 1: the sand tray therapy when you see it if a
Speaker 1: child at some point starts manifesting some behaviors and you
Speaker 1: want to help them kind of untangle them. There's a
Speaker 1: form of therapy where they're the therapist has a big
Speaker 1: tray of sand and on the wall of their office
Speaker 1: they'll have hundreds and hundreds of small figurines like ships
Speaker 1: and pirates and army people and trees, and the child
Speaker 1: can choose whatever they want and bring those items to
Speaker 1: the sand tray and create a scene and then work
Speaker 1: with the sand tray therapist to process some deeper feelings.
Speaker 1: And of course as we get older, there's you know,
Speaker 1: things like E M d R, which processes pre verbal
Speaker 1: trauma in adults. Um, there's other ways to kind of
Speaker 1: get at the things that might be underpinning. But but
Speaker 1: I'm still having conversations about mistakes or I've made when
Speaker 1: I was parenting my now twenty nine year old son,
Speaker 1: and they're incredible. There's no expiration date when you say, Okay,
Speaker 1: well we're not going to talk about that rough patch anymore.
Speaker 1: Because he's so much older, you know, he's learning through
Speaker 1: these conversations about the reality of relationship chips, the challenges
Speaker 1: of being a parent, and how to kind of heal
Speaker 1: things and apologize and make amends even much later down
Speaker 1: the road. It's so hard, and but fear doesn't help
Speaker 1: being afraid. Like, oh my gosh, please, I ask parents
Speaker 1: everybody listening, do not approach parenting like I'm going to
Speaker 1: ruin it. I'm going to break my child. I just
Speaker 1: feel like that's amazing rebiliant. Yeah, that's where I just
Speaker 1: because cray. But even someone says on on Instagram their day,
Speaker 1: like you should leave your husband because you're like the
Speaker 1: kids are watching this, and I'm like, well, we don't
Speaker 1: argue all the time and from them. But then I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh crap, like maybe they like she has heard us
Speaker 1: a yelling before, so maybe that is why she was
Speaker 1: acting out. And then I started to blame myself. Sorry,
Speaker 1: wait hard, Yeah, there's there's strangely, you know, I'm about
Speaker 1: to do a class. I've done a number of collaborations
Speaker 1: with Dr Dan SEAgel. Oh please don't be sorry. Thank
Speaker 1: you for letting people hear the truth. Parents fight in
Speaker 1: front of their children. Very few do not, let me
Speaker 1: just tell you the therapist when they tell me. Very
Speaker 1: few parents don't argue and fight. Now some of them
Speaker 1: have these raging things, and that is where we want
Speaker 1: to make it possible later, even fifteen years later, sweetheart,
Speaker 1: you might not even remember the day that I asked
Speaker 1: Daddy to leave. I was so mad and I threw
Speaker 1: something across the you know. I mean, you're not going
Speaker 1: to play it out if they're not asking, but you
Speaker 1: can certainly generalize and say, but here's the thing, Like
Speaker 1: when I do the work with Dan Segel, for instance,
Speaker 1: who does a lot on neuroscience of attachment, UM, and
Speaker 1: we're doing something together again, so I'm kind of prepping
Speaker 1: for that class. We don't aim for perfect parenting. It's
Speaker 1: not helpful to children. It's better for children to to
Speaker 1: not always have us be perfectly attuned and to learn
Speaker 1: to kind of ride that that wave, that natural wave
Speaker 1: of being human, and to make amends and apologize and
Speaker 1: make repair when it's needed. So it's very dangerous to
Speaker 1: parent in a way that you're terrified that you're going
Speaker 1: to ruin your child. Um. Kids are much sturdier than
Speaker 1: we believe, as long as we make it okay for
Speaker 1: them and safe for them to tell us what they're
Speaker 1: going through. Yeah, for sure, And well before we leave
Speaker 1: your Susan I mean, you kind of answered my question
Speaker 1: right there. But if there is one more bit of
Speaker 1: advice you would give to like, you know, new young parents,
Speaker 1: besides what you just said about not being fearful, what
Speaker 1: would you say to young parents like ourselves? Mm hmmm. Well,
Speaker 1: for another really big one that people don't do well enough,
Speaker 1: I don't think is get support. Um, we're not meant
Speaker 1: to raise children one or two parent household. Were meant
Speaker 1: to raise children in a small community or tribe or village,
Speaker 1: and most parents are not doing that. Um. And it's
Speaker 1: really hard to be a parent. It's exhausting physically, it's
Speaker 1: emotionally taxing, it's relentlessly demanding. So I think it's so
Speaker 1: important when you're starting out with young children to to
Speaker 1: find like minded, lighthearted people and really create an extended
Speaker 1: family of sorts so that those are people you can
Speaker 1: be honest with. You can say take could you please
Speaker 1: take my kids? I'm so tired, I just want to
Speaker 1: watch TV or take a nap and then then I'll
Speaker 1: take gears tomorrow. And and to sort of let your
Speaker 1: let yourself be propped up, um, and and don't have
Speaker 1: an expectation. This is great quote, lower your expectations you'll
Speaker 1: achieve more. You know that this might be dirty. You know,
Speaker 1: enjoy your children as much as you can. Ask for
Speaker 1: help when you need it. Lower the bar in terms
Speaker 1: of what you're expecting when when you lose your way,
Speaker 1: not if, but when you lose your way or things
Speaker 1: go south in the house or with you. UM say
Speaker 1: you know what, sweetheart, that just happened. And you might
Speaker 1: be noticing that I was really mad, or I was
Speaker 1: really upset, or Daddy and I weren't being very sweet
Speaker 1: with each other. We love each other so much, we're
Speaker 1: learning how to work through our differences. Is there anything
Speaker 1: you want to say or ask about that? Is there
Speaker 1: anything you need to feel more comfortable? And kids will
Speaker 1: tell you if you make it safe now. If the
Speaker 1: child says well, I hate it when you fight. I
Speaker 1: wish you would never fight again, and you say, well, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll never fight again, or you make some promise you
Speaker 1: can't keep. I don't think they're served by that. You
Speaker 1: would then say, well, gosh, I know, I know it
Speaker 1: feels so uncomfortable and we're arguing. I can understand why
Speaker 1: you wish we would never fight again. And as much
Speaker 1: as I wish I could tell you that won't happen,
Speaker 1: it might because you know, being a person a human
Speaker 1: is is sometimes means we don't see things the same
Speaker 1: way as the people we like and live with. But
Speaker 1: I can promise you that we're going to keep working
Speaker 1: through things and you can always tell us how you're feeling.
Speaker 1: And we love each other and we love you, and
Speaker 1: so you're not sweeping stuff under the rug. Um, you're
Speaker 1: making it it possible to really tell their truth. Um,
Speaker 1: but you're being realistic also, and you have to have
Speaker 1: faith that your kids really do come through when we
Speaker 1: can allow them to turn to us with whatever their
Speaker 1: truth is, even when it's hard to hear. Amazing, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for all this helpful stuff. And sorry
Speaker 1: again then I tried to feel stupid, but I really
Speaker 1: appreciate it, and please don't be sorry. Well, Susan, thank
Speaker 1: you so much. And where can our listeners find you
Speaker 1: if they want to get more information about your literature?
Speaker 1: What else your yeah? Yeah, oh, there's a monthly membership
Speaker 1: support group. There's co parenting with a narcissist support group.
Speaker 1: There's tons of classes on on chores and um, highly
Speaker 1: sensitive kids and screen time. We do a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff on kids in screen time. So it's just at
Speaker 1: Susan Stiffleman dot com. Awesome. Well I'm signing up right now.
Speaker 1: So thank you so much, Susan. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: We have a great day. Thank you for your wonderful work.
Speaker 1: I love Susan. Yeah, I'm sorry, I just I have
Speaker 1: it's just like I said the other podcast or yeah,
Speaker 1: I think last week's I just have a really hard
Speaker 1: time when someone mentioned something about the kids and um,
Speaker 1: I had put something on Instagram a photo of us,
Speaker 1: and in a comment, you know, said yeah, until he
Speaker 1: does it again, and what a bad example you are
Speaker 1: for the kids. No wonder why you know your daughter
Speaker 1: is acting acting out the way that she is. Um
Speaker 1: to like let you know, to let your kids be
Speaker 1: around and that kind of environment. And then just said
Speaker 1: like I was a week week B and it just
Speaker 1: really like there because because I do have some guilt,
Speaker 1: like there's been some fights that I don't ever want
Speaker 1: her to remember seeing. And you know, I know we've
Speaker 1: done a better job of it now going in the
Speaker 1: room and waiting until they go to bed, Like we've
Speaker 1: done a great job of it. I think sometimes we
Speaker 1: still linger in conversations and I'm like stop, stop, stop,
Speaker 1: you know, um, because I think we had still have
Speaker 1: a hard time pausing. So um yeah, so I just
Speaker 1: feel like bad. I'm like, oh my god, maybe that
Speaker 1: is why like she's you know, like, is that is
Speaker 1: the reason that she's acting out or or I don't know.
Speaker 1: So do you wanna hear my thoughts? Yeah? Um, that's
Speaker 1: unfortunate that that person wrote that, and because not like
Speaker 1: we're arguing every single day in the house and it's
Speaker 1: not like I mean, sorry, I got it, I got it. Um.
Speaker 1: First of all, she's acting out. She's four and that's
Speaker 1: what four year olds do. Anyone with a four year
Speaker 1: old or has had a four year old can attest
Speaker 1: to that, right mark Um. Secondly, the best thing that
Speaker 1: we can do, in my opinion, is we've gotten through
Speaker 1: the worst of our fighting. We've grown a lot in
Speaker 1: our arguing. We have, you know, we have, so it's
Speaker 1: only gonna get better. We're only going to get better
Speaker 1: at pausing and communicating. So the fact that we've were
Speaker 1: willing to do the work that we have to get
Speaker 1: to a better place that we are now compared to
Speaker 1: where we were is the best thing we can do
Speaker 1: for ourselves and for Jolie and for Jason, because what
Speaker 1: Jolie is gonna end up remembering isn't the previous four years.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be what she sees from now on. Those
Speaker 1: memories are gonna trump anything. But will she remember you
Speaker 1: being gone for four months? Will she remember, you know,
Speaker 1: the me crying with her in my arm? Like, well,
Speaker 1: do she remember those things? Like that's what I'm Will
Speaker 1: she remember when I threw that thing at you? Or
Speaker 1: you know it's that's that's where my I'm just like
Speaker 1: feeling because I trust me as much pain and shame
Speaker 1: as I feel around going seventy days without seeing her,
Speaker 1: I like, I would like to think that when she
Speaker 1: was six to seven eight months old, she's not going
Speaker 1: to remember me not being there. But since baby, they
Speaker 1: sense it, Like that's just like sure they can sense,
Speaker 1: but also it depends on what they have from that
Speaker 1: moment on, they can sense it, and if it continues
Speaker 1: that way, then they'll definitely be more likely to remember m.
Speaker 1: But when Jolie only only knows from like this age,
Speaker 1: when she's really becoming influenced and impressioned by how we are, like,
Speaker 1: she's going to remember more of how we handle things now.
Speaker 1: Just take so much pride in being and being a
Speaker 1: good mom and not I know I'm going to do
Speaker 1: things wrong, but that I can impact them in a
Speaker 1: negative way with my actions make me just That's where
Speaker 1: I just crumble, as you heard, because I just I'm
Speaker 1: so I just want to be so cautious and conscience,
Speaker 1: have conscience, Jesus conscious of that because I don't want
Speaker 1: her to. I just just to know that it could
Speaker 1: be my fault that she's going to have some emotional
Speaker 1: issues because she saw me screaming and us you yelling.
Speaker 1: And but just like I haven't mentioned Susan that Susan
Speaker 1: agreed invalidated is regardless, Like there's no perfect parent. We
Speaker 1: know that there we're gonna there's gonna be something that
Speaker 1: we could easily turn into being our fault. When they
Speaker 1: get older, they go Jolie is in a teenager in
Speaker 1: line a bit more. Oh that's all my fault, because
Speaker 1: I all he did was lie for a long time
Speaker 1: in my life. No, it's not that, it's it's what
Speaker 1: she's saying is coming to them, not from a dictator
Speaker 1: authoritative place all the time being like pointing the finger
Speaker 1: you're grounded, but coming to them and having a discussion
Speaker 1: around it, Hey, why do you feel the need to lie,
Speaker 1: and and creating that safe place that she was talking
Speaker 1: about that you and I have talked about, to create
Speaker 1: a safe place for them to come and discuss those
Speaker 1: feelings and their reasonings behind behaviors. Mark, have you ever
Speaker 1: fought in front of your kids with your wife? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And actually you know, Um, I did read something once
Speaker 1: that I take salace in that when kids see you
Speaker 1: fight in front of your kids, see their parents fight,
Speaker 1: and then later or even the next day, see them
Speaker 1: hugging and kissing and everything's fine, It teaches them conflict resolution.
Speaker 1: It teaches them, like you kind of broached this up
Speaker 1: with with Dr Stiffleman, the idea that if they never
Speaker 1: see you fight and then they're in a relationship one
Speaker 1: day and they get in a fight, they're gonna think
Speaker 1: this is it, this is over, this is a disaster.
Speaker 1: But if they see that fights can be resolved and
Speaker 1: then fights aren't really that big of a deal, they'll
Speaker 1: handle it better when they disagree with future partners. So
Speaker 1: I think there is something to that, And of course
Speaker 1: I'm justifying that because yeah, we've done that before, and
Speaker 1: that helps me sleep better at night. And to Mike's point,
Speaker 1: you know, four year olds act out. That's why they
Speaker 1: called the fffing four us, right, that's what every parent
Speaker 1: says about when your kids four years old. That's what
Speaker 1: they do. They act out. But also Lexi's like she
Speaker 1: was saying, kids are so resilient. And I when I
Speaker 1: was going through a really hard time where I was
Speaker 1: traveling constantly and really having a hard time being away
Speaker 1: from the kids, I was talking to my mom and
Speaker 1: she says, well, your dad left for he was in
Speaker 1: the army, and so he would leave for training for
Speaker 1: like three weeks a year. He'd go away for three
Speaker 1: weeks once a year. And I said, really, I have
Speaker 1: absolutely no recollection of that ever happening. She said, really,
Speaker 1: every February he'd be gone for three Yep, don't remember
Speaker 1: that at all. So that made me feel better that
Speaker 1: they're not gonna remember me going to for three weeks.
Speaker 1: You know, that's just barely gonna be a blip on
Speaker 1: their radar. That's yeah, that's true. I barely. My dad
Speaker 1: did shift work all grown up, and he also was
Speaker 1: part of what I don't remember what they called it,
Speaker 1: but basically in the fire department where anytime there's like
Speaker 1: a big travesty at another country, he would be part
Speaker 1: of a crew that would go over there and help
Speaker 1: and everything like that. So he would be gone for weeks.
Speaker 1: And I remember him doing that, but I don't see
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I don't I don't remember my parents leaving.
Speaker 1: But what I remember, starting at age five, was my
Speaker 1: parents fighting and being scared of my dad and being
Speaker 1: scared of of the that fighting, which is why I'm
Speaker 1: trying so hard to make sure that we're not arguing
Speaker 1: in front of Uli, which again we haven't even with
Speaker 1: this last incident, Like we didn't like nothing, no argument
Speaker 1: at all. It was all in the bedroom, um, which
Speaker 1: I think we did a good job with that. But
Speaker 1: that's why I'm so careful and scared. Now that she's four,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my gosh, it's one more year until
Speaker 1: I remember things. And then I start putting all this
Speaker 1: pressure on myself, like oh crap, Like okay, we have
Speaker 1: to make sure that we really lock it up. To
Speaker 1: your point, you start remembering at whatever age you did,
Speaker 1: but things never changed between your mom and dad. That's
Speaker 1: my whole point. They never changed, they only got worse. Really. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we have we have the gift of doing this
Speaker 1: work earlier in our kids upbringing that they don't have
Speaker 1: to be, you know, witness to that. It's so hard.
Speaker 1: Parents out there, Give yourself some grace. It's gonna be okay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and email us and let us know that we're normal. Please. Um,
Speaker 1: I think that's a show, right, guys, That is a show.
Speaker 1: See you guys next week.