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Speaker 1: The I Am rapp Reports Stereo podcast live and you're

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Speaker 1: down with rapp Report. Yes I am, I'm a Rapperport,

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Speaker 1: Yes I am. I'm a Rapperport. Yes I am am

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Speaker 1: a rapper Port. Yes i am better tune in. I

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Speaker 1: am Wrapperport dot com is every single podcast you know

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Speaker 1: he drops FROMBS. I've seen him on set a season

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Speaker 1: vet with True Town. Catch him on his way to

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Speaker 1: course fit rocking the New Balance. He asked me to

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Speaker 1: do the drack because you know I round the leak.

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Speaker 1: But I'm just waiting for the Robert the Nero line

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Speaker 1: of the week, rightfas the Champions hosted Bagel, Cream, Cheese

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Speaker 1: and lock. This is I Am Rapperport. The show never

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Speaker 1: stopped Mike catch the Mountain Public stretching his knees. But

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Speaker 1: if you don't listen to the show, yo, we're gonna pleading.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna please. Rapport podcast. All right, it's the Iron

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Speaker 1: Rapports Stereo podcast coming live and direct. So Jake La Matta,

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Speaker 1: the Real Raging Bull passed at nine years old. UM,

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Speaker 1: Great boxer, crazy life. UM lived till they call him

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Speaker 1: the Raging Bowl, the Bronx Bowl, UM, and he was

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Speaker 1: portrayed in the movie Raging Bowl that was directed by

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Speaker 1: Martin Scorsese, the premier of Joe Pesci, of course, Robert

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Speaker 1: de Niro, Cathy Moriarty, the great Frank Vincent who actually

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Speaker 1: just passed UM. And on December fifteen, I think we

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Speaker 1: put together the greatest podcast of all times celebrating this movie. UM.

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Speaker 1: We screened the movie in l a and UM in

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Speaker 1: front of a live audience, talked about it afterwards, and

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Speaker 1: then we put out this podcast. It was the anniversary

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Speaker 1: of the film's release, original release, and Jacolmata passed UM.

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Speaker 1: And this is a guy that uh, you know, I

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Speaker 1: learned about, you know, being a boxing fan. And then

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Speaker 1: of course when the movie came out in I was

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Speaker 1: only ten years old. And this is a flawed guy.

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Speaker 1: This is not a guy who who was a choir boy. UM.

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Speaker 1: But the thing that I always loved about his life

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Speaker 1: and and and the movie is there was redemption. So

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Speaker 1: this is a rebroadcast, a rerelease of what I considered

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Speaker 1: the greatest podcast ever, celebrating the greatest movie ever. In

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Speaker 1: my opinion, UM, Raging Bull is the greatest movie of

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Speaker 1: all time because it used every single aspect of filmmaking, direction, perfection.

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Speaker 1: The performances of course de Niro. It was the first

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Speaker 1: time we saw Joe pesci Um. Kathy Moriarty, the great

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Speaker 1: Frank Vincent was in the film as well, who just

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Speaker 1: passed the editing by Martin Scorsese's Scottie Pippen, his right

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Speaker 1: hand woman film A Shoemaker, Um, lighting, sound, everything, It's

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Speaker 1: a it's a perfect movie. The inspiration is all over

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Speaker 1: so many different other films. Paul Thomas Anderson, Quentin Tarantine,

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Speaker 1: and we've all as actors of filmmakers have been inspired

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Speaker 1: by Scorsese, but specifically Raging Bowl. So this is the

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Speaker 1: re release of the Raging Bowl podcast. It was our

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Speaker 1: episode one, one four and the lineup is incredible. Martin

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Speaker 1: Scorsese espns, Max Kellerman, Academy Award nominee, friend of the

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Speaker 1: Iron Rapports stereo podcast, Juliet Lewis a friend of mine

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Speaker 1: and the podcast. Nick Taturo, the great John Taturo who

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Speaker 1: was basically an extra in Raging Bowl and he's on

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Speaker 1: the podcast. Jim Brewer, Adam Carolla, the Dirty Sports Podcast,

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Speaker 1: Guys Andy and Joe, Danny Aello and Jake Lamata himself. Um,

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Speaker 1: this is the re release of the Raging Bull podcast,

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Speaker 1: which I'm just so proud of. I'm so glad that

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Speaker 1: we were able to pull it off, um and put

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Speaker 1: it together and and the lineup is ridiculous. I was

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Speaker 1: freaking out, if you hear me, sort of stuttering and

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Speaker 1: stammering when I'm talking to some of the people. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't believe that we put it together. And the thing

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Speaker 1: about this podcast is when we first started doing podcasts,

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Speaker 1: like I was like, oh, ship, you could do whatever

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Speaker 1: you want, and and we did this, um, and it's

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Speaker 1: a time capsule a podcast. This thing will stay around forever.

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Speaker 1: So this is the re release of the Iron Wrap

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Speaker 1: Ports stereo podcast Raging Bull episode with an incredible lineup,

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Speaker 1: and uh, check it out and watch the movie and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, enjoy this. It's fantastic. All right, this is

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Speaker 1: not a test. I'm about to talk to fucking Marty

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Speaker 1: Scorsese about Raging Goal. This is not a test, Marty.

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Speaker 1: It's Michael RAPPAPORTI, Michael, how are you doing. I'm doing good?

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Speaker 1: How are you doing? Oh you know what are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm in Los Angeles right now? Are you in New York? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: How are you doing? So? I'm doing something to celebrate

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Speaker 1: because it's you know, I have a bunch of them.

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Speaker 1: Like it's hard to say one, but Raging Bull. It's

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Speaker 1: the thirty fifth anniversary. I don't even know if you're

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Speaker 1: aware of it. It It was released thirty five years ago.

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Speaker 1: And the movie, the movie means so much to me

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Speaker 1: and to so many people. So I was doing, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was doing like a sort of a you know,

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Speaker 1: like a roundtable on it. And I had a we

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Speaker 1: had a little screening of the film, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to ask you some questions. I got

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Speaker 1: to talk to some great first question I wanted to

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Speaker 1: ask you is you know, I mean, I know it

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Speaker 1: came out thirty five years ago, um, and I know

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Speaker 1: you guys were working on it a few years before that.

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Speaker 1: You know, in looking back on that film, what did

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Speaker 1: you take away, you know, as a filmmaker from from

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Speaker 1: the process of of of making Raging Bull and that time,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, and and the idea of even

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Speaker 1: trying to make a film like that in this day

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Speaker 1: and age. What do you remember and what did you

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Speaker 1: take away from it when you think of that film? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's um, the film was made from me under special circumstances,

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Speaker 1: you know, and um, ultimately, I think we played it

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Speaker 1: out completely in terms of I know, Bob as an

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Speaker 1: actor and me as a filmmaker. I mean, we just

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Speaker 1: played everything out. We just put everything we new into

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Speaker 1: it and sort of the end of one thing and

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Speaker 1: maybe the beginning of another. I wasn't even sure where

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Speaker 1: what I was going to do for the rest of

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Speaker 1: my life quite honestly after that. So it was it was.

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Speaker 1: It was a kind of a it wasn't basically as

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Speaker 1: a used to turn out game change, but a game

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Speaker 1: change you made me from me, I don't know about Bob,

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Speaker 1: but certainly from Nate. That's a that's interesting. That's a

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Speaker 1: that's a interesting like what was going on that you

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Speaker 1: you were sort of at that point to to sort

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Speaker 1: of like, you know, just sort of give everything of

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Speaker 1: yourself of it because you know, honestly, you know, when

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Speaker 1: I look at that film and I've watched it so

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Speaker 1: many times, and you know, sometimes I watch it just

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Speaker 1: as a fan, and sometimes I've watched it as an actor,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes I'm like, I just look at the cinematography,

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Speaker 1: you know, like there's so many layers in it, and

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Speaker 1: there's so much texture, to the sound, to the to

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Speaker 1: the camera movements. You know, what was going on with

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Speaker 1: you where you were kind of where you just said,

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Speaker 1: I didn't even know if I was what you were

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Speaker 1: going to do with the rest of your life, Like, like,

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Speaker 1: what what do you mean by that? Well, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's going to make films anymore. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know if I would have the passion again to make

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Speaker 1: a picture. Um. What I mean is that, uh part

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Speaker 1: of this complex, because part of me wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a film director who can make pretty much, you know,

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Speaker 1: any story or different genres. Um. The other part of

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Speaker 1: me was more into a first style of filmmaking that

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Speaker 1: was more European or Scandinavian or Asian Japanese you know

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. There's big influences, and then of

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Speaker 1: course there was Cassavetties, which was uh the main Casaveties,

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Speaker 1: and of course over over Towering overall that was Kazan.

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Speaker 1: So you know, for me, where was I where was

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Speaker 1: I to go ultimately, um with all these influences. Um.

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Speaker 1: But prior to that, I mean after doing right around

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Speaker 1: the time of Bling New York, New York and Last

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Speaker 1: Waltz was a period of experimenting UM and trying things, failing,

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Speaker 1: succeeding in certain places where he didn't think he would,

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Speaker 1: and ultimately trying to find a way to feel strongly

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Speaker 1: again about making pictures after after New York, New York,

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Speaker 1: I didn't feel UM, I didn't feel that I would

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Speaker 1: be able to go on a set uh and make

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Speaker 1: a movie or go on location. UM. I was really

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Speaker 1: concerned about could I ever care about UM not the

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Speaker 1: subject matter, but the process itself and what you have

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Speaker 1: to go through UM to put myself on the line,

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Speaker 1: everything on the line, and includes you know, your health

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Speaker 1: and you know it sounds crazy, but your health, your

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Speaker 1: your money, family, everything for UM A project and the

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Speaker 1: one that came to mind me was Gangs of New York.

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Speaker 1: I was preparing to that, but I my personal life

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Speaker 1: became very difficult, and I almost UH had accidents and

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Speaker 1: basically accidents, meaning that kind of player was just depleted

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Speaker 1: up pull a lot. And then finally UM Bob pushed

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Speaker 1: me to make the Raging both. He had been asking

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Speaker 1: me for years and we've been trying in different scripts

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Speaker 1: and that sort of thing, but forward different scripts I

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Speaker 1: should say, and UH, finally I said, I kind of

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Speaker 1: understood that everything I was looking for, everything will The

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Speaker 1: struggle I was having was put the movies about and

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Speaker 1: was about learning to learning to learn again. Put it

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Speaker 1: that way, because every time you go you try to

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Speaker 1: do something, it's it's like it's as if you never

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Speaker 1: did it before. It was a humbling experience because they're okay,

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Speaker 1: now I can start all over. And then after this,

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Speaker 1: I can start over again if I can, if not,

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Speaker 1: onto something else, I don't know, you know. And so

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Speaker 1: then things changed and I put everything I put into

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Speaker 1: the picture um and in every way. But basically it

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Speaker 1: was about finding finding that soul again. I got you.

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Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense. I mean, I had

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Speaker 1: a bit of it in the Last Woltz, but the

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Speaker 1: Last World is primarily you know this incredible these incredible

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Speaker 1: performers a New York, New York. I did did some

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Speaker 1: interesting things, but I felt that I could have been

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Speaker 1: more rigorous and uh in the approach uh and and

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Speaker 1: certain certain aspects, and um, I was disappointed myself with

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Speaker 1: the results. I'm not saying the actors weren't going to

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Speaker 1: believe me. The commeraman uh, glaslow Covacs, the production design, everything,

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Speaker 1: the music, it's just something I wanted to try that

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I ever reached. And I was

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Speaker 1: disappointed by my myself for that, you see, I got

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Speaker 1: I got you. That makes a lot of sense. And

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Speaker 1: then I acted out right, would you consider doing something

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Speaker 1: as small and as intimate in this climate of of

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Speaker 1: making movies and where you are, would you ever consider saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, like doing something as like you would? Huh?

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Speaker 1: Always yeah? No, In fact my pot departed was but

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Speaker 1: then it became bigger, right, it got bigger as we

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Speaker 1: were shooting it. But actually it's not that big if

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Speaker 1: you look at the shots and the scenes. Um. And

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Speaker 1: also not do you got no? Oh? This new one

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Speaker 1: is yeah, that has a it's it's in the seventeenth century,

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Speaker 1: so in the countryside and Nagasaki side of Narakasaki, So

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Speaker 1: you're forced to, I think, in different scale, on a

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Speaker 1: different scale, you see. And so that's been that bad

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Speaker 1: is a big struggle and something I was looking forward

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Speaker 1: to for a long time. Um, in a good and uh,

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Speaker 1: I should say careful way you know, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: a big test because of that. I was trying that. Um.

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Speaker 1: But there's no doubt if I've tried. That's why I've

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Speaker 1: tried a couple of pilots shout quickly. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: Boat Empire was pretty big and it's Vinyl, though I think, um,

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Speaker 1: I think it's more controlled in terms of how should

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Speaker 1: I say. It's crazier and wilder, but that reflects the

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Speaker 1: state of mind of the guys putting the music together,

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Speaker 1: in the musicians and that sort of thing in New

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Speaker 1: York in nineteen seventy three, which where when I made

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Speaker 1: in main streets. So it's crazier and wilder. But on

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Speaker 1: the other hand, um, it gave me. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: the energy was such so strong, and the actors were

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Speaker 1: so good in the writing and the music, and I

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Speaker 1: just like it was a joy, you know, it was

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Speaker 1: a joy. And that suddenly made me realize, Okay, I

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Speaker 1: could do something in twenty eight days or thirty days,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it doesn't have to you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not it doesn't have to, but I'm aiming towards that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. I do get stuced by b or

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Speaker 1: so it's not the right word. But movies like The

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Speaker 1: Aviator respectable, you know, movies they were making movies in

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Speaker 1: Hollywood and the color and the airplanes. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I did get gangs of but Gangs in New York

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Speaker 1: was not Gangs in New York was something that is

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Speaker 1: a that was sometimes planned all the way back to

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Speaker 1: seventy four, seventy five, seventy six and eventually became the

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Speaker 1: movie it became. But um, that was meant to be

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Speaker 1: big and sprawling forward corre sprawl, crazy like that, like

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Speaker 1: the city itself, you know. Um, but it took years

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Speaker 1: to get it anyway, And my final my final question,

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Speaker 1: And I can't tell you how much I appreciate you

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Speaker 1: doing this and because I don't want to keep you on,

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Speaker 1: because honestly, Marty, I think that every year should be there,

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Speaker 1: should be every year should be a sort of celebration

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Speaker 1: of raging bull I'm trying to get a statue built.

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Speaker 1: I'm kidding. I'm kidding. You guys pull it together for me.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, they don't even show. They don't show it

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Speaker 1: on tcm um maybe once every two years for Oscar time,

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Speaker 1: but they usually put on one o'clock in the morning

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Speaker 1: because they claim it's I guess, because they claim it's

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Speaker 1: too violent. But they showed main streets, but they show

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Speaker 1: main streets at three thirty in the morning, which it

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Speaker 1: should be a thing. I mean, in this day and age,

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Speaker 1: what people could like at on their phone is way

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Speaker 1: worse than anything you've ever made, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I know, I know you know, but but so just

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Speaker 1: it's just to tell you this. So obviously I've watched

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Speaker 1: the film, you know, a bunch of times, um, and

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Speaker 1: when I watched it with a live audience just the

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Speaker 1: other day, I thought it was interest thing because when

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Speaker 1: I first saw it, I was young, so I didn't

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Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know what was going on. But

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Speaker 1: I'm curious, you know, because when I watch you with

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Speaker 1: the live audience up until uh the Jake Lamoto character

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Speaker 1: gets violent with his wife, you know where that obviously

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Speaker 1: there's nothing is no longer funny. There's so many there's

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Speaker 1: so much humor in the film. Yes, I know, I know.

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Speaker 1: I was just talking to some people now about the

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Speaker 1: same kind of thing as the kind of humor you know. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's New York Italian Jewish humor, which is how I

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Speaker 1: grew up, you know, And for me, the humor comes

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Speaker 1: from up until it gets you know, you know, the

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Speaker 1: physical stuff. Yeah, then it's that it's no longer funny,

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Speaker 1: but his frustration, you know, like that that can be

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Speaker 1: funny when somebody is so frustrated and someone can't see anything,

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Speaker 1: the absurdity of it. Angry. Yeah, and to laugh at

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Speaker 1: yourself if you get to that point where you to

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Speaker 1: laugh at yourself as good. But that doesn't mean the

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Speaker 1: frustration doesn't go away. Right Were you were you guys

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Speaker 1: aware of that? Like, I mean, it's it's hard. I know,

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Speaker 1: it's so long ago, and obviously you've done somebody. Were

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Speaker 1: you aware of that the humor and raging, well while

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Speaker 1: you were making it like or I think so? I

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Speaker 1: think we I think we started to Uh, we just

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Speaker 1: reacted the way we used to react, I mean the

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Speaker 1: way I normally react to her, the way I grew

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Speaker 1: up in the streets, Uh, in my household that I

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Speaker 1: was that I was in. Um, you just reacted to

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Speaker 1: what was genuinely a funny about being alive, about trying

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Speaker 1: to make a life, whether it's always about loss of money, money,

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Speaker 1: this power, you know, all kinds of stuff, things that

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Speaker 1: the upper classes I guess don't really I don't know,

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Speaker 1: But in our and the world I grew up in

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Speaker 1: being what was very basic and Uh, came from the

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Speaker 1: real situations, very real situations, and the irony of things,

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Speaker 1: the irony about how the people lived and who said

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Speaker 1: what about whom? And how could they speak that way?

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Speaker 1: And uh was who money? And it goes on like

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Speaker 1: that and who you know, this sort of thing, and

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Speaker 1: so it all came from that. And also growing up

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Speaker 1: around the time of the great Golden Age of television

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Speaker 1: with your show of shows and all the great uh

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Speaker 1: the Jewish comedy Uh and you see them acting it out?

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Speaker 1: Can you see him? Updates? He said, Caesar Image and

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Speaker 1: Coca you see, you know, written by these extraordinary writers. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Other shows. U. All this sort of humor was really

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Speaker 1: very allive because those shows were wid you see nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty six. I mean it's a very special time. Um.

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Speaker 1: The humor of Smith and Dale coming out of uh,

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Speaker 1: which became like the Sunshine Boys. It's like it's just

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Speaker 1: being a human being and expressing how you and the

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Speaker 1: humor and the irony comes out of that. You know.

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Speaker 1: So we knew it at the time, but we didn't

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Speaker 1: be a funny movie. We didn't think it was funny.

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Speaker 1: We just thought funny irony, like yeah, perfect you know, Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, he says, you know, the terrible things in

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Speaker 1: the hallway with his brother, and he says you should

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Speaker 1: kill her about his wife. He was eight. Don't talk

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Speaker 1: to that still my wife. Right, there's a certain there's

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Speaker 1: a certain line you do not cross. What line? Didn't he? Right? Right,

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Speaker 1: there's so many of those lines like all that sort

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Speaker 1: of he's like, you know, hit her with a baseball.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's like, you're last ridiculous, It's totally crazy. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but that's how I kind of actually, you know, not

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Speaker 1: that my parents with you know, it's it's hard to

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Speaker 1: say because people don't understand the list. I don't think

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Speaker 1: I'm seventy three, but talking about something half a century ago,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I you know, I it's something

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Speaker 1: I know that I grew up with. So Marty, I

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Speaker 1: I want to tell you I really appreciate it. I

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Speaker 1: wish you a great holiday and enjoyed the new year,

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Speaker 1: and I appreciate you taking the time. It really means

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Speaker 1: a lot to me. And Okay, Michel, let me know

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Speaker 1: what you do, Okay, let me know how things go.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely will thank you, thank you, all right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what to say. Um, the fact

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Speaker 1: that I was able to get Mortin Scorsese to be

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Speaker 1: on the Iron Wrapping por podcast is a is a

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Speaker 1: monumental mountaintop moment. Um. I need to catch my breath.

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Speaker 1: That was really that was that was dope. That was

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Speaker 1: dope and uh yeah, let's see Iron wrappp podcast all right. So, um,

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Speaker 1: the reality of Raging Bull is that it's about a

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Speaker 1: real boxer, and the real boxer is obviously Jake Clamatta,

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Speaker 1: and uh, pretty much all the boxing stuff was very

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Speaker 1: uh spot on in the film. Uh you know what

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Speaker 1: happened in the ring. Um. The most famous sort of

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Speaker 1: line and memory, I think from Raging bulls when Ray

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Speaker 1: Leonard Sugar Sugar Ray robertson, sorry, I was fighting Jake

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Speaker 1: Clamata and he sort of absorbs all the punishment and

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Speaker 1: then he says he never got me down, Ray, he

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Speaker 1: never got me down after he takes a ginormous beating

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Speaker 1: in Raging Bull. So I'm calling my friend, probably the

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Speaker 1: number one boxing alice in the world, Max Kellerman, to

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Speaker 1: break down the real Jakelomata. First, the performance by de

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Speaker 1: Niro Jake Laomata and also, uh, you know at his

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Speaker 1: thoughts on the film because he's a humongous fan as well.

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Speaker 1: All right, so we're gonna get my man. Uh right now?

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Speaker 1: Hello Max, It's Michael Rappaport. Hey Michael, what's going on?

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Speaker 1: How you doing? My man? All right? So I told

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Speaker 1: you Max, I'm doing an all Raging Bull episode of

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Speaker 1: the Iron Rapports Podcast. The first thing I wanted to

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Speaker 1: ask you about was the real Jake Laomata as a

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Speaker 1: fighter versus how he was depicted in the film. Was

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Speaker 1: it depicted properly? And and but just first speak on

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Speaker 1: who is Jakeolomata in in in boxing lore, in boxing history,

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Speaker 1: What does he mean to boxing? And what kind of boxer?

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Speaker 1: And what what is he? What is he best known for?

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Speaker 1: So breakdown Jake Clamata. The number one attribute he had

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Speaker 1: was his chin. He could take punishment like nobody else.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are a couple of fighters on that list,

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Speaker 1: Marvin Hagler that I've seen in my lifetime, Daniels Arra Goes,

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Speaker 1: and there were fighters before um Lamata. But if push

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Speaker 1: comes to show, if you say who's the guy who

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Speaker 1: could take the best punch ever, I would say Jake Lamata.

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Speaker 1: He was never legitimately off his feet and so so

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Speaker 1: you know, he's known for that. I think also, as

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Speaker 1: it was depicted in the movie, the fact that he

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Speaker 1: was this highly avoided middleweight contender trying to trying to

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Speaker 1: do it on his own. But the fact was the

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Speaker 1: mob had a stranglehold on box thing at the time,

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Speaker 1: and so you had to throw a fight to get

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Speaker 1: a title shot. How how real is that whole thing

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Speaker 1: about fights being fixed, you know, the mobs, you know,

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Speaker 1: hold on boxing and and that whole element obviously, I

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Speaker 1: mean it wasn't just La Matta and just the raging

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Speaker 1: bull of at all, but like speak on that like

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Speaker 1: that was a real thing, Like that was a real

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Speaker 1: problem for fighters, and you had to take dives in

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Speaker 1: order to get this and you know, sort of compromise yourself, uh,

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Speaker 1: and in order to really get a shot at the titles.

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Speaker 1: That was that real stuff. Yeah, there was. There was.

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Speaker 1: There was something called the IBC and all these sanctioning

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Speaker 1: bodies today. The ib C was the International Boxing Club,

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Speaker 1: I think it was the acronym, and it was basically

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Speaker 1: a syndicate more or less, you were at least it

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Speaker 1: had all these different venues throughout the country, all the

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Speaker 1: biggest venues in the biggest fight towns in New York,

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Speaker 1: all the big venues in Chicago, big venues like that.

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Speaker 1: And if you wanted a big fight at a big

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Speaker 1: venue against the top fighter, you had to do business

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Speaker 1: with them. And that went on for years. Um. In fact,

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Speaker 1: custom Motto is usually credited as the guy who who

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Speaker 1: ultimately broke the I broke the stranglehold of the ib

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Speaker 1: c uh, you know on the biggest titles and biggest

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Speaker 1: fighters in boxing, and and the Lamatta Ray Robertson the

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Speaker 1: Sugar Ray Robertson Jake Lamota fights. Um, were they as

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Speaker 1: vicious and as brutals they were depicted in the film

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Speaker 1: And do you know of la Mata? The real Lamata

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Speaker 1: actually ever saying to him like one of the most

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Speaker 1: famous lines in in in Uh in the movie, and

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Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's been sort of you know

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Speaker 1: used outside the movie is you never got me down right?

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Speaker 1: Like so talked about the real fights and and and

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Speaker 1: how are they depicted? And just in terms of boxing history,

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Speaker 1: because they fought three times, they talked about them as

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Speaker 1: they fought six times. Six times, they fought six times.

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Speaker 1: The only one I've seen is called the St. Valentine's

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Speaker 1: Day massacre. That's the last one, the one you're referring to.

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Speaker 1: You never knocked me down, right When Lamata at that

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Speaker 1: point had the middleweight championship that he won from or

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Speaker 1: seltzer Dan, the great French fighter, and Robinson moved up

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Speaker 1: from welterweight to fight Lamonto for that was their last fight.

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Speaker 1: They fought five times before that already. Yeah, Lamatta went

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Speaker 1: to Lamont game Robin who should Ray Robinson one was

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Speaker 1: forty and all when he fought Jake Laomata um and

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Speaker 1: LaMotta Gating his first loss in New York. It was

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Speaker 1: it was sugar raised New York debut, and later he

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Speaker 1: became very associated with New York City and had businesses

423
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: in Harlem and fought a lot in New York. But

424
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: Robinson was from Detroit, as Joe Lewis was, and he

425
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 1: comes to New York. He can't get anyone to fight him,

426
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: and neither kill Lamata. So they fought each other. Lamata

427
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: outweghed him by about fifteen pounds. Ray was a welter weight.

428
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 1: Lamonto was a middleweight, and Lamata knocks him down, you

429
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: know early in if I think in the first round

430
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 1: and Robinson comes back to beat him, and they fight

431
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: again a couple of months later, and this time Lamotto wins,

432
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 1: knocks him down again, and they fight again, like three

433
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: or four weeks later. In this down, Robinson wins. I

434
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: don't remember if Robinson got dropped in that one. Uh,

435
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: and like that La Matta eventually that I thought Sugar

436
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: Ray Robinson. I thought Sugar Ray so much I got

437
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: diabetes something like that one. But but he was you know,

438
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: Robinson didn't lose another fight until he had a hundred

439
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: and thirty wins. Lamota is the only guy to beat

440
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: him while he was in his prime. Um. You know,

441
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: when you hear like Floyd Mayweather, he's forty nine and

442
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 1: oh this one has this many wins with the losses,

443
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: let me know, when you got a hundred thirty wins,

444
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: how many losses you got? You know, La Matta lost

445
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: to that guy a lot. The greatest fighter who ever lived, Robinson. Um.

446
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: But but in spite of the fact that that La

447
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 1: Matto was able to not to drop Sugar Ray a lot,

448
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: he was not a big puncher. He wasn't a knockout

449
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: artist in terms of the way they depicted him in

450
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: the movie. Um Us, he was a brawler. He was

451
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: an inside fighter. He was very slick on his way

452
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: inside art Dick because he had short arms and he

453
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: was short and small hands. As he said in the movie,

454
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: um but but but was not a knockout fighter. Didn't

455
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: usually knock his guy out, usually worked them over and

456
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 1: one on points as a as a a brutal knockout artist.

457
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 1: That's not what he was. And that's really good. And

458
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 1: and is that is that famous line you never got

459
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 1: me down? Right? I mean, he never got him down.

460
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: But we don't know if that was said or actually

461
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: not said, or if that was just you know, I

462
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: don't I couldn't. I couldn't tell you offhand if he

463
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: actually said it. Uh. You know, a lot of the

464
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: fights in that era, um uh, that Lamota fought don't

465
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: exist anymore. Um because during the war, during the Second

466
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: World War, the the celluloid that they've you know made

467
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: film four was thought to be very necessary for the

468
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: war effort, and so they preserved Joe Lewis's fights because

469
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: he was heavyweight champ. And I I've seen some home

470
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 1: movies of Robinson and different fighters from that era. But

471
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: during the Second World War, during those years, you know,

472
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: mid forties, you don't really have a lot of existing footage.

473
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: So the so the Lamata that you see is from

474
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: you know, after that and the Robinson Lomota fight that

475
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: I've seen many times, you know, and and different rounds

476
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: from it is the same Valentine's Day masker for the

477
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 1: middleweight title. Alright, that's good. And then and then and

478
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: what about what do you know about like Lamata's you

479
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: know upbringing. He's from the Bronx He's the Bronx Bowl,

480
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: the Raging Bowl. So like what what what can you

481
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: break down about? Like you know how you know he

482
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: came up and you know what his what his what

483
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: his background? He came up, He came up running the

484
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: streets in the bronx Ian Rocky Rocky Graziano was a

485
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: very colorful fighter. Uh from that same time. He was

486
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: a bigger puncher than Lamatta, but not as great a fighter.

487
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: And he had a crazy three fight series with Tony's

488
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: ale Um considered, you know, maybe the best action series

489
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,719
Speaker 1: ever in the history of boxing. Uh. And somebody up

490
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: there likes me, Paul Newman. That's the Rocky Graziano Steward

491
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: another great boxing movie. Um and and Graziano came up

492
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: running the streets with Lamata used to say because Graziano

493
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: and you know, Lamata did stand up acts basically at

494
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 1: nightclubs later on in life, and Grazzie. One of Graziano's

495
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: famous lines was, we never stole anything unless a big

496
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: band with an a a car, a truck, you know

497
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: like this. And and it's funny that these two guys

498
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: would come up together and eventually both be the middleweight

499
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: champion of the world at different times. That is crazy,

500
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: all right, this is exactly Uh, you know what what

501
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: I mean. You're you're around fighters, uh more than you

502
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 1: know anybody who's not an actual fighter, you know what,

503
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: from all the years and all the research and just

504
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: you know, obviously before you became Max Kellerman, you know,

505
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: and an analyst, you were, you know, you were a fan.

506
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: What is it about fighters in general? What is it

507
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: about their lifestyle, what it takes, the commitment that they continue.

508
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm shocked that Creed was as good and

509
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: as successful as it turned out, you know, because I'm

510
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: the most cynical Rocky fan out there. But what is

511
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: it about boxers that you think make for great movies? Well,

512
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: I mean, first of it's the same thing that makes

513
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: boxing more compelling than other sports. I do this thought experiment.

514
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: You know, through the years, I've done it a hundred times.

515
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know if you come where I can

516
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: prove to anyone boxing is their favorite sport. In you know,

517
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: thirty seconds, he come to a street corner and two

518
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: guys are playing to pick up a game of basketball

519
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: in one corner. On another corner to stick you know,

520
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: a stickball game. On a third corner there you know whatever,

521
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: throwing the football around. And on the fourth corner there's

522
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,479
Speaker 1: a fist fight. Where's the crowd, you know, the crowds

523
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: around the fist fight. So then the question is what,

524
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: because you know it's just intrinsically more compelling, Why is

525
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: it more compelling? Because everything else is metaphor and boxing

526
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: is literal. So so you know, if Agacy can't return

527
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: Sampras's serve, it's because Sampras has metaphorically imposed his will

528
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: on Agacy, the ball being the surrogate for his will.

529
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: If if if Mike Tyson can't get up from a

530
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: Lennox Lewis right hand, it's literal, It's not a metaphor.

531
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: His brain is telling his legs get up. His legs

532
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: can't do it. And that's because Nick says, literally separated

533
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: him from his own will. Right, So the literal imposition

534
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,239
Speaker 1: of one will on another is simply more compelling than

535
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: a metaphor for the same thing. And in in the

536
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: in the movies, it works in reverse if you're using

537
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: stories as a metaphor for people's struggle, right, I mean,

538
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: that's it's conflict and resolution, and that's what drama is.

539
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,959
Speaker 1: You know what's what is a better metaphor for it

540
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: than boxing, where they where they are literally fighting, they're

541
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: fighting for something. And then of course, you know, when

542
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: you get into the character study of it, all these

543
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: guys are interesting guys. You've gotta be a little crazy

544
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: to get in there and fight, and and you know,

545
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: a little crazy is usually pretty fun to watch, all right,

546
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: Max Calluman, this is exactly what what what I thought,

547
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: uh you you would bring to this. Um. I appreciate

548
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: you doing it. Um, I appreciate your insight. You're the

549
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: best in the business. And uh, you know, I just

550
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: appreciate you doing doing this for me and for for

551
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: raging both. Thirty fifth anniversary. Can you believe that movie

552
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: is thirty five years old, and when it like it

553
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: ages so well, it's still it's still, you know, amazing

554
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: to watch. You can watch mean Streets and you can

555
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: see him working some of that stuff out. And later

556
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: on Good Fellaws was you know, maybe uh more I

557
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: don't know if you want to say advanced. It was,

558
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: you know, a more mature work later in his life.

559
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 1: But then it feels like it was a little derivative

560
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: of up Raging Bull. Raging Bull was was to me

561
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: score c these uh absolute best, you know, and and

562
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: and I think didn't win Best Picture of the Eighties

563
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: at the time, at the end of at the end

564
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: of the day, at the end of the decade, it

565
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: won best It won the best film of the eighties.

566
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: But when it when it you know, when it came out,

567
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, de Niro obviously you couldn't deny

568
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: his performance. But Ordinary People beat Raging Bull for Best Film.

569
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: If you could believe that, I mean, listen, dances with

570
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: Wolves beat good films. What are you gonna do? What

571
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: are you gonna do? You win, you win, if you lose,

572
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: you still win, you still win. You can't move yo, Max,

573
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: Thanks for doing this. Michael, my pleasure anytime about Juliet

574
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: Lewis Juliette. Yes, I'm here, all right. So Raging Bull,

575
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: Raging Bull, You're you're sort of a raging bullet. Raging bull. Well,

576
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: I don't know how to take that, but there's there's

577
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: so many parts to Raging Bulls that are iconic. It

578
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: feels like there were seven movies in one movie. And

579
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: then and then you know, like from what you were

580
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: just talking about, the violent that Scarcese showed with PESHI,

581
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: that kind of violence that's so absurd but so real

582
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 1: and maybe people laugh but made you so uncomfort of

583
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: all was so weird. It was such a combination of things. Yeah,

584
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: I I know what you mean. And and and I

585
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: don't know when the last time you saw the flick

586
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: was Jewels. But you know, like I would call you

587
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: a tough broad. But like that movie, the way it

588
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: resonates with men, I have to assume it resonates differently

589
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: with women. I mean, but just just talk to me

590
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: about like as an actor, like the performances and the

591
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: method acting. And you know, even Kathy Moriarty, I mean,

592
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: she was so beautiful, I mean stunning in that movie,

593
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: Like like like like probably one of the most beautiful

594
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: movie characters I I could think of. You know, when

595
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: you think of the way she looked in that film,

596
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: the way she was dressed, her hair, the blonde hair

597
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: she was, well, I yeah, I can't speak on how

598
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: it resonates male and female, but as an as an

599
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: actor person you know who who is drawn to characters

600
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: and truth and complex city. That's what it's about. But yeah,

601
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: but regular folks did that? Regular folks Lulu am I?

602
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: When am I? From the fifties? Right off? Folks? Um No,

603
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,760
Speaker 1: But there's just those scenes. I think that's a guy

604
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: that's unstoppable. He's like unpunishable and and for me the

605
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: scene of course that Santaga, you didn't knock McDowall, ray,

606
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: you didn't kock me down? Like he's a bloody fucking mess.

607
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: He's like a zombie. But I don't know, it speaks

608
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:38,959
Speaker 1: to the spirit of of keep getting up and there's

609
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: a brutality in it, but there's so much heart and

610
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: he's such a bizarre character. I don't know that I

611
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: would be friends with the guy. So I don't know

612
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: why it was so it resonated. What do you think

613
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: why did it resonate with some people? And when it's

614
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: such a niche kind of world, what I think from

615
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: the Bronx to Brooklyn from the bron and and and

616
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: I think that that you never got me down Ray,

617
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: and that that thing, I think, I think that's something

618
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: anyone can relate to in any world. Like I think

619
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: it's sort of like, you know, a tenacity, and it's

620
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 1: like in life, you know, it's like you you know,

621
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 1: we all get the ship kicked out of us, and

622
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: you know he never went down, but you know, like

623
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: there's there's sort of like a you know, it's a

624
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: metaphor for life. And although it's so it's so extreme

625
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: with what he does in the movie, but I think

626
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: like that line and that sort of you know what

627
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: what when he's saying that after taking such a beating,

628
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: because you know, you get you get your ass kicked

629
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 1: um in life, you get your ass kicked in relationships.

630
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: You know, I kicked my own ass personally every time

631
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: I laid it down to to to sleep. And and

632
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 1: and I think, but but you know, so I think

633
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,399
Speaker 1: that's it's it's crazy that there's there is that sort

634
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 1: of thing because when you when you watch the movie.

635
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 1: It's it's not an easy film to watch. It's it's

636
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: not like you could sit down and be like, hey,

637
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: let's watch Raging Bold and we're gonna it's it. It's not.

638
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 1: It's not that kind of movie, you know. Um yet,

639
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: there's just it's just it's a complex, hard film for me,

640
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: you know, the heart of the film, I think the

641
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,439
Speaker 1: better Like if I you know, go over my top

642
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: five movies and ship there are none of them. Are

643
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: I try to find a comedy in them, but there's

644
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: there's none of them. I like Grit, yeah, you know

645
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: what and are They're like Midnight Express, Francis uh one

646
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: flew of the I mean the brutality, the brutal and

647
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: their films that stay with you for days a week.

648
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: But Raig and go, let's talk about like the urban

649
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: legends I think. I mean we've heard other acting urban legends,

650
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: I guess, but nothing more than the DeNiro transformation. I mean,

651
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: I've heard they shut down production for five months, so

652
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: you gain the weight or is it how what happened?

653
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: That's true? I mean, you know, like the fact that

654
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: he did that, um like just on a budget and

655
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 1: technically like okay, we're gonna you're gonna get in shape.

656
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: You're gonna you're gonna get in ridiculous shape, and you're

657
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: gonna be a boxer. And then, you know, the business today,

658
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: you wouldn't be able to do that. And then we're

659
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: gonna shut down for five or six months and you're

660
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: gonna eat like a slob, and then we're gonna come

661
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: back and continue shooting. Um. I mean, I just don't

662
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: think that could be done now. But I mean, you know,

663
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: like as far as a benchmark in acting, that's that's

664
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 1: the benchmark in acting. And one of the things that's

665
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: so DeNiro and so cool is that he did he

666
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: never talks about it, Like if you see interviews, to

667
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 1: write a book, just write a book about the development

668
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: of that character. But he doesn't talk about it, which

669
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: I think is cool because it's like he was just

670
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: doing Like I think it just shows that he was

671
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: just doing it because it was a necessary thing. Like

672
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: it's like a job requirement in order to do this job,

673
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: to play this part the best, ay, this is what

674
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: we need to do. I think a lot of times

675
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: now when act like what they did, the great gain,

676
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: the weight loss, the smoking cigarettes, it all becomes like

677
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: you know, Um, sort of like the selling points of

678
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: this is why you should go see the movie, and

679
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: this is why you should get nominated. Where he did

680
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 1: it at the highest highest level, and he was as

681
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: far as I know, he was the first person to

682
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: do it in such an extreme way. Obviously other actors

683
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 1: have done you know, before him, have done you know,

684
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: they've went out of their way, and he's not the

685
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: only one who's went but this you could see he

686
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: physically transformed himself. I don't think anybody had done it

687
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: to that degree. And man, that does speak to He's

688
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: de Niro's character, his integrity that he doesn't tell you

689
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: about his process at all, Like he doesn't show fload it.

690
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: He just lives it and delivers it. Because like even

691
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: when we did Cape Fear, he did crazy Ship behind

692
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: the scenes, like I only know it because first days

693
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: he told me. Um. One time we were in my

694
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: trailer and I was like, oh, where did you just

695
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: come from? Me? Because I just came from Bob's trailer.

696
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: He had a gospel singer and they're playing piano and

697
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: they were speaking in tongues. It's like, I don't know

698
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 1: that ship's going on and prep to press for the

699
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,720
Speaker 1: psycho killer he's playing. He speaks in tongue, but he

700
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: I just love his wild ship on the that he's

701
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: doing behind the scenes. And then when you were working

702
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: with him, and and and did he bring any of

703
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: the stuff he was doing on his own to the set,

704
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 1: like this whole thing of method acting? And you know,

705
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: like Daniel day Lewis, who's fucking ridiculously good, but like

706
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: you know, like apparently he stays in character, like when

707
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: you were working with him on Cape Fear, did he

708
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: staying like when when when in between action and cut?

709
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: Is he really still a Max Katie or is he

710
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: Bob de Nirol? That's that was the other thing I

711
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: learned because even as a young actor, I heard all

712
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: those urban legends and you heard here the term method.

713
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 1: But what he did, we mean, no, he just had um.

714
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: He didn't talk a lot, like when we did the

715
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: Auditorium theme, but he'd always say hello and goodbye and

716
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: give me a hug. I think he was being like

717
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: really kind because our our relationship, not because he is

718
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: a kind person, but I think our relationship in the

719
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: film was kinged with where he has to make me

720
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: feel safe. You know, the character so so I just

721
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: remember him like just being really really sweet but not

722
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: talking a lot, and and observing his um his energy,

723
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: like what he's doing. But yeah, now he wasn't dark

724
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 1: off when we said cut, That's the thing. He was

725
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: just he was just owning all that I don't know,

726
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 1: wrapping up all that power, and then once the camera

727
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 1: was on, it like so much present all there, like

728
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: that guy was that guy? That was that guy? You know?

729
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: Have you ever worked with another actor? I mean, I

730
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: know you were so young when you did Kate Fear,

731
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: but have you ever worked with I mean, well, you've

732
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: worked with so many goddamn actors I mean, but like

733
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to compare. But I mean I don't

734
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: want to ask you that because then it's like, obviously

735
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: you worked with fucking Meryl Streep and Woody Harrilson and

736
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: Robert Downey. I mean, there's so many great people. But

737
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: let me let me ask you about this, because because

738
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: what about out of all now that it's like you've

739
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 1: been working for like twentysomething years and and and you

740
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: did Kate Fear so young, and what is it that

741
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 1: you remember about Scorsese that sort of asides the brilliance

742
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: that's in his head, which you know, we can't articulate.

743
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: What what what what is it like working with him?

744
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: And what makes him special? What? What? What do you

745
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: think sticks out with him as a director when you're

746
00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: being directed by him? The number on thing is his

747
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 1: love of cinema and his love of the visual element

748
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: and his love of everything and passion, like he's electric

749
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 1: to be around. And that was the one thing compared

750
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: to all other directors as we step on set at

751
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: like seven in the morning, and you've seen interviews with

752
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: Scorsese where he's talks amile a minute and he's just

753
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: electric about all things cinema. He just radiates um passion

754
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: and love and and and energy about it. So to

755
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: be directed by someone like that, Oh and and his

756
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: energy is unwavering from seven am to nine at night,

757
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: the same and when he would shoot like because then

758
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: kape ye, there's this whole montage he's shooting clothes ups

759
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: of like locking the doors, shutting the blinds. It was

760
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 1: like the super intense. But they're really, you know, not

761
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 1: not exciting shots to be doing, but he made them

762
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: exciteing and he made everything full of like danger because

763
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 1: that's what a film is supposed to be. But yeah, anyway,

764
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: that it was that his sense of adventure and his

765
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: love of of the visual and making everything exciting to

766
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: look at, to look at, and and oh and also

767
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: he loves actors. He Jessica and worked different than Deneiro.

768
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: I worked totally different than everybody. I wasn't trained. I

769
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: was all in stinct. So he knew how to work

770
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 1: with and get the best out of every actor. That's

771
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 1: that's not something all the directors know how to do.

772
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: That's good. That's good. Yeah, well that's good. Shift Juliette.

773
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: This is the Iron rap por Podcast All Raging Bull episode.

774
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: I got my man Nick Tatarro here, whose brother John

775
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: Tataro is basically a glorified extra in the film. The

776
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 1: film was shot in seventy nine, came out in eighty.

777
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 1: So he hadn't been a he was just an actor.

778
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: He was a New York actor. He was he was

779
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 1: a New York actor who I think it was before,

780
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, Yale. Before he went to Yale,

781
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: so he had been working at the West Beth Theater

782
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: in the Bank Street. Him and Michael bot Luco. We're

783
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: doing plays down there. Botaluco was doing a play if

784
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 1: you get the name of it, and he played a referee,

785
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: and I think John was his understudy, so him and

786
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: Mike were they did their own plays. They were doing

787
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: a play down there, and apparently de Niro and Pacino

788
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: we're gonna come one night. And uh my brother told

789
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: me because I had just seen New York, New York,

790
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: and I said, really, they're both coming. As far as

791
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 1: I know, they're both coming, can I come? And he goes, yeah,

792
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: but be cool, be fucking cool, don't don't fool around,

793
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,399
Speaker 1: all right, said, I said, all right, I'll be cool.

794
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: He said, because I may not be on tonight, but

795
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: Bato Luco is going on, but I want to be

796
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 1: sitting near him too. I said, okay. He goes, there's

797
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: four seats roped off. I said, I'm gonna sit next

798
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: to the last seat roped off. And I went with

799
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 1: this blue Hawaiian shirt like he wore Jimmy Doyle, New York,

800
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: New York. It's just a kid, you know. I'm wearing

801
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: the blue Hawaiian shirt that looked like that. And Pacino

802
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: doesn't come, but the narrow comes with Sis Corman. Since

803
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: Corman was a big casting director back then he comes. Man,

804
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: my heart was pound and I'm a kid. I mean

805
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,439
Speaker 1: the narown his heyday with the thing on his sheat

806
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: the mole. Oh shoot, I see him. But my brother

807
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,760
Speaker 1: said be cool. When you saw him, you like, holy

808
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: sh it. Yeah. Fucking movie stars have big heads too,

809
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: like me and my brother talked about the physically and

810
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: had big A lot of them have big heads. Their

811
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: heads are big. And he sat down, but there was

812
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: four seats, and I think he sat like on one seat.

813
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: There was one empty seat, he said. Then she sat

814
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: and he must have realized if two other people, um,

815
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: they're gonna be on each side of the four seats.

816
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: Roped off, so like he sat down and then he

817
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 1: got up and he sat right next to me. And

818
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: I was like, oh ship man, here's my chance. But

819
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: I can't funk up. I have to be cool because

820
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: John told me be cool. So I'm sitting there. Man,

821
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: I said, excuse me. I said, do you have the time?

822
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 1: Exacts the exact question, exact question since the mant fifteen

823
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: and thank you. I turned around. He must have said

824
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: the funk that kid asked me for the time for

825
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: I'm wondering why that kid asked me the time probably

826
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: freaked them out. He was like, he did a couple

827
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: of double takes too. He's looking at the shirt. Fucking

828
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 1: you're looking at the shirt and ship like that. And

829
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, he was wondering, like the fucking blue

830
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 1: you know he wore that. He wore a shirt that

831
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: looked like that kid asked me for the time. So

832
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 1: second half, John told me move over, I'm sitting next

833
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: to him. I said, okay, um, so I guess he

834
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:00,919
Speaker 1: was talking to John a bit. I don't know why

835
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,439
Speaker 1: they you know, John maybe had a Guinea T shirt.

836
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: Maybe he liked John's look. They were casting. They were

837
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 1: looking at the time for people for Raging Bull, and

838
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: I think when Bodo Luco came out, he laughed, he

839
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: broke out and left. I saw him light up, and

840
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: then even John said, he goes, he goes. I think

841
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: he was even checking you out. He asked me who

842
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: was that kid? That's my brother? Said, not no problem.

843
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 1: He said, buddy, now you did good, you did good.

844
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 1: So then John told me, you know that they were

845
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: going to get into audition. He liked Bodo Luco and

846
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: he liked the way John looked audition four raging. He

847
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: told bad Luco, he said, you and your friend with

848
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: the Guinea t shirt, this is coming from Boto Loco.

849
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: He told me that pice and then he became an actor.

850
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: I was an actor with John and College. He was

851
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: really an actor that started doing props. But he was

852
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: you know, he worked with wood. He he was what

853
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: he's prop man. Then what put him. He's great, he's

854
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: ripping up money. It's a wild man by the loco.

855
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,959
Speaker 1: He's a wild man. But he's a trained actor, trained actor,

856
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: a real act. It's just that, you know, he was

857
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 1: doing you know, he was doing another job for a

858
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: little while. But Michael was a smart guy, a little

859
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 1: crazy too. So they they went out and got the book.

860
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: They used to research things. They bought the book. I

861
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 1: guess a lot of people don't know that it was

862
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 1: based on a book. Yeah, not a great book. I

863
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: heard it wasn't even that great. I never read it,

864
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: to be honest. I read Rise Guys, but I never

865
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: read that book. There was no Joey character that was

866
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 1: the best friend. The best friend was Pete Savage, who

867
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: has a cameo at the end. Petter Savage was with

868
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 1: Jake's best friend because I met him at a college class.

869
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: I was taking a film course. I met Pete Savage,

870
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: So that Joey character was the best friend. But I

871
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: don't know there was no brother. Who was that brother?

872
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: Thing was created Scorsese and de Niro, and and was

873
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: it who wrote the scrom he's the right Scorsese. I

874
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: think he did mean streets, yes, Martin Martin, because yes, yes, yes,

875
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: Martin Martin. And when they created that, okay, So John

876
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: and Batluco got the book and they dressed up as

877
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: fifties guys. They were young, but and the older guy

878
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,359
Speaker 1: like Frank Vincent got kiss. Those guys were a little

879
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 1: older than John and bout a Luco. So obviously when

880
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: they went into like read for Salvey, they probably said,

881
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: well you could mind, maybe you're too young. They told

882
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: their own scores, They told about Loco. John and Balugo

883
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: went in with suits and they were dressed in fifties

884
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 1: gear because everybody wanted to be a part of this movie. Actors,

885
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 1: young actors. And they said, we have a scene, we

886
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: have a we haven't we have material And they were like,

887
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: what scene. There's no there's no scene, Scorsese said, because

888
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:39,839
Speaker 1: not we were. We got the book and they got

889
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: a book. They got the book, they did like a

890
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: scene from the book. They wrote their own scene. Had

891
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,359
Speaker 1: a prop bag. They had a bag with guns in there.

892
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: About Luco said. They said they were gonna maybe, you know,

893
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: if they had to desperately pull out these guns. They

894
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: never pulled them out. They had prop guns in the

895
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 1: bag by Aluco tells very dramatically, again we had we

896
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: had guns, Nick, we had guns in the bag. But

897
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: they never revealed the guns. But Scorsese he was gonna

898
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: like not let them. He liked them. He liked to

899
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: look because you're too young or something. And then he goes, no,

900
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: we we have a scene. We want to we want

901
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 1: to read our scene for you. They were like, what scene.

902
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 1: There's no scene, and they go, yeah, we got a

903
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 1: scene from the book. We we we lifted it from

904
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: the book. So the narrow, being an actor is let

905
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,919
Speaker 1: them read, let them do the you know. He liked

906
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: to get a kick out of them, so they enjoyed them.

907
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 1: So they gave Botto Luco to this part where he

908
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,280
Speaker 1: actually had a few lines. He was at the soda

909
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 1: fountain where he goes, they might give me a coke

910
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 1: and he brings them over the prison a coke. And

911
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: then they used John and Boto Luco in the scene

912
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: way he sees Vicky atmans. They're at the table at

913
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: the dance, and if you'll if you look at the movie,

914
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: you'll see John dear young John de Taro at the

915
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: shakes DeNiro's and he saying, right next to de Niro,

916
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: Bato Luco has got like a toothpick in his mouth.

917
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 1: And then Pesci's there, and then de Niro's childhood friend

918
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:58,800
Speaker 1: who's like a wild man, who's at the table. He

919
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 1: throws somebody out. So that was and he didn't even

920
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: get a credit. John, but Byelugo got a sad card

921
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: from Raging Bull and you went to the set. I

922
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: went down as a kid with John and then we

923
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: watched him filmed the scene way he shakes her hand.

924
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 1: We were like we were across the street. Remember he

925
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: came out of his trail the first time he meets

926
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: the first time he meets VICKI, because you want to

927
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,919
Speaker 1: meet my brother. He goes, it's gonna be the next champ, right, Jake,

928
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: come here, and then you know he comes about and

929
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: he goes by the gate and he goes, are you

930
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: doing you know where you're from around here? You know?

931
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: You like that card goes you want to go for

932
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: a ride? I'm gonna go for a ride. And so

933
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 1: we were like sucking ten feet away. We're watching the

934
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,839
Speaker 1: whole day. Man, Look how good he looks when him

935
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: and scores. All you can see was them talking in

936
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: in his ear, like whispering in his ear. There was

937
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 1: a lot of people on the street. There was a

938
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: few people. It's a different time. There's a different time.

939
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,720
Speaker 1: And I just remember I was blown away. We stood

940
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,919
Speaker 1: there for hours, far enough that we didn't bother them,

941
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: you know, because I didn't want to get John in

942
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: trouble or anything. But we were watching that whole scene,

943
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 1: a beautiful scene, great scene when he shakes the hand,

944
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: you know, and what it what it did? You What

945
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: do you remember about I remember you said, like the

946
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 1: way he the way he moved, Like I remember you

947
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 1: told me, like just the way he looked, the way

948
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: he looked, the way he looked physically, the way he

949
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 1: walked down the street. You know, Like I have a

950
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: problem with a lot of these guys that fight fights.

951
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 1: Like even the kid increed nothing against him and Jake.

952
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: They're all pumped, they're all steroid out. I mean they

953
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,439
Speaker 1: looked too muscular, like he actually looked whether he could

954
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: fight or not. You bored him as a fighter. He

955
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 1: had to fight. His body like a flat body, but

956
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,399
Speaker 1: his balance, his step. You could see like, man, he's

957
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,439
Speaker 1: a fucking movie star and he's a great and look

958
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 1: at him. He's just like poetry. I just had that

959
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 1: image of him coming out and he looked. It looked beautiful.

960
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: He looked like a fighter. He looked like a fucking

961
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 1: prize fighter. You're like, wow, you know I've met real fighters.

962
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 1: I was friends with Boomboo man Sin and I just

963
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 1: did a play when I used to take a shirt off,

964
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 1: I said, I used to feel his body has to go.

965
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 1: What a body? Ray? I love fighters bodies. I know

966
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: I'm not homosexual, but their bodies are beautiful and I'm like,

967
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: I could feel them up, man, I could feel their bodies.

968
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: I love their bodies. Their beautiful bodies. Agree. I know

969
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: exactly what the beautiful bodies so so the movie? So

970
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: why do we love this movie so much? Essentially, it's

971
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: about a guy who is abusive, self destructive, um and

972
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: just a fucking terror the character in this movie. Obviously,

973
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: you know the movie Raging Bull and the character that

974
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: they created in out of jakelmata is. You know, it's

975
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 1: not it's not literal, so his life. I mean, obviously Jake,

976
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: the real Jake has this thing. But we're so we're

977
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: talking about the movie. But this movie. The brilliance of

978
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: the movie, Mike is the execution. The story is not

979
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: that incredible. He's not even the guy that you should

980
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: care or like. But for some reason, I think we

981
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 1: see a lot of things of ourselves in Jake. You know,

982
00:53:55,640 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: I know we're insecure. I know, deep down with jealous.

983
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 1: I know you don't want nobody fucking your girl or

984
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: your wife, you know. So there are things there that

985
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: deep down, even though people say, oh, he's an animal,

986
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,359
Speaker 1: he's a fucking brute, but deep down, there's a lot

987
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: of things that that the relationship of that movie, and

988
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 1: you almost feel like it's very personal that movie. You

989
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 1: almost feel like you're looking in a window, you know.

990
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: But him and Pesci, the acting was off the wall

991
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 1: because it was very much like like this, like me

992
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: and my brother when we have a conversation, people go, wow,

993
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 1: I love watching you and your brother because we're brothers.

994
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 1: We're brothers, and you don't see that in a movie,

995
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: you know, like when he does the movie, he's like,

996
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: you know, you know, what's the matter. You're my hand

997
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,359
Speaker 1: wrapping around your hand. You know, you know, not too

998
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: many more, you know, you know, he's like, you know,

999
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 1: just the conversation with that they have the give and

1000
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 1: go and and the brutality and that. You know, he's like,

1001
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: I was watching that scene the other night, you know,

1002
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: did you did you not? You know, he's not gonna

1003
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 1: answer that. It's a sick question. Ain't sick enough to answer.

1004
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: I ain't gonna answer that. You give me all these

1005
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: and but you don't give me the right one. He

1006
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 1: was really fucking nuts. It was like an acting exercise

1007
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: that characters tell me, just tell me, goes, did you

1008
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:11,439
Speaker 1: did you not? Because I heard some things? What things?

1009
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 1: I heard some things? And when he said what he

1010
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: says it I heard something. I heard some things. Oh

1011
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: you start that worrying ship. Don't start it, christ sakes,

1012
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:22,839
Speaker 1: He's like, Sammy funk Vicky. You know, he's like, Jack,

1013
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,760
Speaker 1: don't start your ship. And then he says, you included

1014
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: you with them. You could have said anybody, but you

1015
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 1: said you and them. He goes, you don't know how

1016
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 1: nuts you are. You know that the the insanity of

1017
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,280
Speaker 1: the things that you think that you could drive yourself

1018
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: fucking crazy as a man, And that's a man thing,

1019
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: I think, and I think that's what we relate to

1020
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: that we relate to many things. But I know what

1021
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 1: you're saying, and it's not something you're proud of. No,

1022
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: you're not proud of it. I'm not proud of weakness.

1023
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it is a weaks and insecurity, but

1024
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:55,439
Speaker 1: he shows it so openly that as men, this is why,

1025
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: because I was trying to think of this thing, So

1026
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,320
Speaker 1: why am I doing this going I'm doing a gleaning

1027
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 1: and raging ball I'm doing you know, like, Okay, it

1028
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:04,280
Speaker 1: was a great performance, but like, what is it about

1029
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: you love about the character? And I think it's not

1030
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 1: that we love like we celebrate him like he's a role,

1031
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 1: but we relate to it the insecurities we look, we

1032
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: relate to his flaws and I think as as men

1033
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: and I and women can say the same thing. And obviously,

1034
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: but I think it's a very masculine sort of thing.

1035
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,360
Speaker 1: It tapped into it with the jealousy and the insecurity

1036
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 1: and the self destructiveness, and and and I think you

1037
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: know you as somebody like I think you know it's

1038
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 1: something that it's it's a common thing and that a

1039
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: lot of people probably wouldn't even admit that they have.

1040
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: But I know you and I and me and you

1041
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: we could say that we had that. And also the

1042
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:42,440
Speaker 1: humor of it because we meet because it is some

1043
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 1: of it is funny, and some of it is said.

1044
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: But the jealousy and you know, the insecurity of that,

1045
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: it hits home when you're a man, you know, like

1046
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: and the things a lot of things about raging bow

1047
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 1: that the truth. I think it's so true that it

1048
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 1: comes back to Jake. There's a lot of truth. You know.

1049
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 1: There's a lot of humor in it, you know, and

1050
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 1: talk about the humor, yeah, you mean, because also for me,

1051
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 1: the first time I saw that movie, I didn't think

1052
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: it was funny. But as you keep because you're sort

1053
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 1: of knocked on your heels, I'm trying to like, I mean,

1054
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 1: I was a fucking kid, I was I was, I

1055
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 1: was ten. So the first time you're watching it, it's

1056
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: so tense, it's beyond the tension that he created because

1057
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 1: they sort of do. They got in the same ballpark.

1058
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 1: De Niro, I mean Scorsese during Good Falls and the

1059
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 1: famous My Clown It kind of yeah, but more subtle,

1060
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: more subtle, more subtlety. And then you have to watch

1061
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: that movie over the years, Right, there's a lot of quiet.

1062
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: There's a lot of moments that are funny that you

1063
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: didn't know what funny. You know, even like when he's

1064
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: sitting there in the kitchen with the girl and he goes, um,

1065
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 1: he goes, you know when you talk about de Niro, Yeah, no,

1066
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: no, no no, just when his first day, when he's sitting there,

1067
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: he goes, it was so far away, You're like on

1068
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 1: the other side of the room. Right, He's trying to

1069
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 1: get a closer. He goes, come on here, come over, here,

1070
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: come over, come move closer. You know. They takes her

1071
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: in the bedroom and he goes, you like you like

1072
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 1: that picture? You like the picture? Yeah, me and my

1073
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: brother phone around. Now, beautiful you are? Anybody ever tell

1074
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 1: you how beautiful you are? I tell you all the time.

1075
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 1: You have that nice neck, kisses the neck. It's funny.

1076
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 1: It's just something funny. But he sits on the bed

1077
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,479
Speaker 1: on the bed and he puts his hands awkward to Yeah,

1078
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: well he's very awkward with women anyway. But in the

1079
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: character like does that it is It is awkward because

1080
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: you don't see them kiss, you don't see the make out,

1081
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 1: no sex, sex, nothing. The only thing you see sexual,

1082
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: really sexy, which is will will make you want to almost,

1083
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 1: you know, play with yourself, is when she kisses his

1084
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: fucking stomach. That is a turn on. Yeah you see nothing,

1085
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but you see his face. She's going down

1086
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 1: to that am yet You're like, oh my god. And

1087
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: the way she's doing it, he's sold. Cathy Moriarty, she

1088
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: was great and one of the most beautiful, beautiful and

1089
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 1: as far as like on screen characters physically knockout. Yeah,

1090
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 1: she was gorgeous. They found her, Pesci found her. I

1091
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 1: think she was a big bombshell knockout. I saw her

1092
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: too by the pool. I was like, who is that girl?

1093
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 1: The bombshell? And then when I saw a Pesci too,

1094
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, who's this guy. He's fucking great

1095
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 1: because even as good as he was in all these

1096
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: other movies, when you watch him in that movie, he's like,

1097
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 1: he's fantastic. He's fantastic in that movie. He's so you know,

1098
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 1: he's so great because he wasn't like, you know, even

1099
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: doing the Joe Pesci stuff, like you know, he's flashy.

1100
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: He's great and good fellas, don't kid, he's terrific. But

1101
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 1: he's so wonderful and in the scenes, what what you know,

1102
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 1: he's just great. You know, he's he's so funny in

1103
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: in his in his way, the way he explains things

1104
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 1: to his brother. If you win, you win, right, If

1105
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: you win, you win. If you lose, you still win.

1106
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 1: Just get down to a stop beating, right, right, He's

1107
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 1: just great the way he talks to him. You know. Um,

1108
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 1: it's just it's just his way about it. Um. He

1109
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: was really just wonderful. I just and I saw it too.

1110
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, this guy is good. He said, yeah,

1111
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 1: he's great. He's great man, And they broke his balls.

1112
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: I better heard about. They tracked him down, they found

1113
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: the narrow to found him in some movie and they

1114
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 1: they tortured him hurt for like a year. Yeah, you're

1115
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna you're gonna get the part. You're gonna

1116
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 1: get the part. Then in the end they were gonna

1117
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: like almost give it to somebody else and he went wild.

1118
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: I heard, I heard he went wild. He was like

1119
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 1: he was ready to kill somebody, you know, because it

1120
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 1: was like, you know, he had a hard time breaking

1121
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: into show business. He never got a break, and the

1122
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 1: narrow tracked him down. Had a good eye. He must

1123
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 1: have narrow must had a great eye. They knew saw

1124
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,959
Speaker 1: him in this movie, you know with Joe Cortesi, crazy guy,

1125
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 1: you know, and Joe Cortesi was trying to get it.

1126
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 1: All these guys were probably trying to become that part,

1127
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 1: and everybody wanted that part. And I was like, who

1128
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 1: is this guy, Joe Pesci? Where did he come from?

1129
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 1: Its fucking great? Did in the end when he's come in,

1130
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: when he's trying to talk to him, come in, come in.

1131
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 1: He was great when he doesn't like you know, ah,

1132
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 1: he goes, you know, because come on, come forgive and forget.

1133
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 1: It's said, it's sad he's kissing him kiss. Imo was

1134
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 1: like me, he loved his brother, but then you know,

1135
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 1: he fucking fucked him. He really hurt him. Yeah, I

1136
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: mean you beat your brother up like that, throw him

1137
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: through a glass window, and right, funck is wrong with you?

1138
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 1: Fuck is wrong? With you, right, you know that's your brother.

1139
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 1: He put him through the window because because what jealousy

1140
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 1: can do. Understand this, I'm not gonna say it now,

1141
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: and then see this you can say now, no I'm

1142
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 1: not saying it. Look at that say it now. The

1143
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 1: rage of this so he's making it has driven people

1144
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 1: to murder. It's crazy murder, O. J. Simpson. I mean, yeah,

1145
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: murder because we're not condoning this. Don't make you terrible,

1146
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:07,439
Speaker 1: it's terrible jealousy, Yes, commit O J. Simpson, because when

1147
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 1: we did yes, when you get huh, you know, man,

1148
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: you and it's that thing of you think it's yours.

1149
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,520
Speaker 1: It's not yours. It's not yours. It's not yours. It's

1150
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: just a little piece of snapp. It's a little snapper

1151
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 1: that's not yours. You think it's yours. You think you

1152
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 1: own it. You don't own it. You don't own anything.

1153
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 1: You came in alone. You're fucking going out alone. It's

1154
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 1: not coming in the box with you. You like to

1155
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 1: think it's yours when you're sucking on it or whatever.

1156
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 1: You know, this is mine, this is mine for good,

1157
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 1: all right. This is John T. Turrow, John, it's Michael Michael,

1158
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 1: how are you. I'm good, How are you doing? What

1159
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 1: are you doing a podcast for it? So I'm doing

1160
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 1: a podcast, uh in celebration of the thirty fifth anniversary

1161
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 1: of Raging Bull. And Um, of course, you know, I

1162
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 1: know you were in the film and and and and

1163
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 1: I know that it was like the first thing you

1164
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 1: would ever the first film you had ever gotten a

1165
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: part in, And I just wanted to just ask you about,

1166
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: like how you wound up in the film and what

1167
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 1: you remember about, uh, you know, the experience being on

1168
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: the set, and like you know, what compelled you to

1169
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 1: go so from what I know, so far out of

1170
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 1: your way, Uh you know, to to to like audition

1171
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 1: and you know, keep auditioning for de Niro and Scorsese

1172
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 1: and just what you remember. It was thirty five years ago,

1173
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 1: so it's a long time ago. But I mean at

1174
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 1: the time, you were, you know, a young New York

1175
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 1: actor and uh, you know, obviously it must have been

1176
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 1: an exciting set to be on. So I just wanted

1177
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 1: to you know, hear, uh what you remember, what your

1178
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 1: thoughts were and and and how the experience was. Well,

1179
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 1: I was in college, uh in seen upholts, and I

1180
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 1: live in the summers. Uh this was I don't know

1181
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 1: what summer it was because it was a couple of

1182
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: years before they made the movie. Maybe he was naneteen

1183
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:23,760
Speaker 1: sevente eight, sent the eight. Yeah, and uh, Michael Bluco,

1184
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 1: who between my friends, he was older than me. He

1185
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 1: introduced me to older people at the West Pack uh

1186
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: Theater Center, and we were doing the play there, uh,

1187
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: Pieces of Crime and uh and I he had to leave,

1188
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 1: so I replaced him. And then we heard that de

1189
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: Niro is going to come. You know, I had never

1190
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 1: met de Naro, but he was like a big you

1191
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: know because of green streets and taxi driver. Uh, he's

1192
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 1: going to come. That he wanted to come back and

1193
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: replace me, which he did do. And then I was

1194
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 1: at the like kind of at the I was a

1195
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 1: ticket taker, and I remembered that was that, well you

1196
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 1: should come from the neuro comes and I was really

1197
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 1: and I was, I real. I had like a tight

1198
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 1: T shirt on and I was I was like twenty,

1199
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:22,720
Speaker 1: I guess yea and uh he uh twenty one twenty

1200
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 1: And he came and I made him pay, I remember,

1201
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 1: and I sat next to him. Uh. And then he

1202
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 1: saw the show and he was laughing on Mike and

1203
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 1: and then I get uh. He told Sis Corman, who

1204
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:41,440
Speaker 1: was the Caffe agent, that he liked Michael and to play.

1205
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 1: And he noticed this other guy who was picking the tickets,

1206
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 1: and I was sitting next to him, and U. He thought,

1207
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 1: I'd like to bring these two guys in. And so

1208
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: we got this phone call and Michael got it, and

1209
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 1: I guess I got it. He got my number. I

1210
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 1: don't know how I got my number. It uh and

1211
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 1: uh they uh. We were supposed to meet them, which

1212
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 1: is Corman. They had no script or anything. I had

1213
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 1: never gone on a professional audition in my life. I

1214
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 1: had auditioned for college plays. Right. And we went, We went,

1215
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 1: and we took pictures. Michael and I. We used to

1216
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 1: buy our clothes in these drift shops in New York.

1217
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: So we had lots of forties and disty clothes and

1218
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 1: we bought and we took like residents, like pictures of

1219
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 1: us in forties clothes. And Michael and I decided we

1220
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 1: were like you know, I said, you know, because my

1221
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:39,479
Speaker 1: dad was an amateur boxer and I used to buy

1222
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 1: fight films from Jim Jacobs from Ring Magazine, who wound

1223
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 1: up being Mike Tyson's Marriager. So I had all these

1224
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 1: books on fighters, and I was a kid because my

1225
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 1: father loved boxing, and I had eight million meters super

1226
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 1: eight films of all these different fighters, Sugar A Gracciano, Marciano,

1227
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 1: Jo Lewis, and I read Braging Boat when I was

1228
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 1: like ten years old. I read the book. I mean

1229
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: it was an adult book, but I read. I used

1230
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 1: to read all these biography and I said, listen, I

1231
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: had this book. I said, so why don't we? So

1232
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 1: we decided to adapt the scene and try to convince

1233
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 1: them to let us, you know, show them the scene.

1234
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 1: So we rehearsed the scene. We had like a month

1235
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 1: in advance, I remember, like, but we did it like

1236
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: a play. We adapted it. We did it at the table,

1237
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:34,160
Speaker 1: we did it boxing, we did it running, we didn't swimming.

1238
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 1: We did all kinds of ways to work with the

1239
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 1: teacher on it. It was like it this whole thing.

1240
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 1: But then the night before were supposed to go in,

1241
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 1: you know, we were like proposed, they don't let us

1242
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 1: do it, you know, because they don't have a script

1243
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 1: or anything. And I never got on an audition. So

1244
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 1: Mike was like, wow, if they all let us do it.

1245
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 1: Then he was all fired up. He said, you know,

1246
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 1: we'll hold them hostage, all kinds of crazy and I

1247
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 1: was like, I can't really yeah, and uh uh, you know,

1248
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 1: but he was like serious. He was saying, no, no,

1249
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:07,640
Speaker 1: we'll scan him. You know. Well I was like, oh no,

1250
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 1: not like career reel before years, I said. Then we

1251
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 1: went to them to the meeting, and you know, we

1252
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 1: were supposed to just say hello, like you know, going

1253
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 1: like a quick Woody Allen type of you know. And

1254
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 1: I guess Mike talk to them and he said, you know,

1255
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:29,720
Speaker 1: we had this little scene and they were and and

1256
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:31,519
Speaker 1: then they were laughing at or whatever. And then they

1257
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 1: brought me in and I think you brought me in

1258
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:38,120
Speaker 1: alone and Mike went out and I said, yeah, blah

1259
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 1: blah blah. I were talking a little bit. They reached

1260
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:42,519
Speaker 1: about have machine, and I think Mike was still in

1261
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 1: there when I came in, that's what he was. And

1262
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 1: Lutie was like nervous. He said, well, we don't have

1263
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:48,840
Speaker 1: a script, don't have anything. And I was like, oh,

1264
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:51,519
Speaker 1: come on, let's about them. Let let them do it.

1265
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 1: They adapted it in the book, so we had to

1266
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:57,519
Speaker 1: move the table I remember it was a glass table

1267
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:00,439
Speaker 1: and all four of us had to pick the table

1268
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 1: up and there was no base and spurs Adi was

1269
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:07,680
Speaker 1: going to props props, you know, and like we had

1270
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 1: to move the table over and then we had to

1271
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:11,760
Speaker 1: push the base over. And he did this like on

1272
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:16,720
Speaker 1: the waterfront scene, like between Jake and his friend like

1273
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 1: Keeth Savage, like, and I guess you know, we had

1274
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 1: noted we did it like for a month straight, you know,

1275
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 1: so you know, and I think were really kind of

1276
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:31,799
Speaker 1: like enamored that we were these two stupid kids. Really, uh,

1277
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:33,720
Speaker 1: and he was looking at young people because he was

1278
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:36,400
Speaker 1: supposed to be really young in the beginning and get older,

1279
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:40,040
Speaker 1: but really, honestly we were too young because he was

1280
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 1: said kids older than us. So but they were really

1281
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:46,160
Speaker 1: kind of enamored that we had the hood spread it

1282
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 1: to do it. And then they kept calling us back

1283
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:54,640
Speaker 1: for a year and uh, and you know, there were

1284
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:56,880
Speaker 1: show us the scenes and there were these scenes that

1285
01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 1: were in the movie, but of course they elaborated once

1286
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:03,080
Speaker 1: they did it. And the brother Salsie the one that

1287
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:06,560
Speaker 1: Frank Vincent played, and I never went on and I

1288
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:08,839
Speaker 1: used to go to Mardis apartment and I used to audition.

1289
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:13,080
Speaker 1: I had I had never been another you know, ever

1290
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 1: like and then we heard about all these guys who

1291
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:19,679
Speaker 1: were auditioning his famous stories. You heard about Joe Pesci,

1292
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:21,760
Speaker 1: and then we heard about this other guy who was

1293
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:25,679
Speaker 1: up against Joe Pesci. Joe Rocco was the famous Shoe Roco.

1294
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:28,160
Speaker 1: And then Joe Roco was going to get the part

1295
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 1: just but it was over a year and I went

1296
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 1: back to school. And then my father got a call

1297
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 1: one day and they said Mike got a little part

1298
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 1: of the sola clerk something. But I think before even

1299
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 1: he got he got to put a call. And then

1300
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:48,559
Speaker 1: I got a call and they said they were gonna

1301
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:51,360
Speaker 1: maybe used me and my father. I came back of

1302
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 1: his shower and my father was all excited. You know,

1303
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:56,480
Speaker 1: I don't really have any lines, you anything, and uh

1304
01:10:56,680 --> 01:11:00,160
Speaker 1: and then uh, you know, I just see Mike. He

1305
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 1: did the scene at the pool and he may not

1306
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 1: mean he may not actually see him in there, but

1307
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:07,720
Speaker 1: he was a Solda like the guy who was the

1308
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 1: clerk at the pool. Uh as a soda jerk. And uh.

1309
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 1: But I watched the narrow and kepting Marial and but

1310
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 1: I had never been on you know, my swather A

1311
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:21,240
Speaker 1: was a cop man. So I had never really been

1312
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:23,240
Speaker 1: on the movie set in my life. And this guy

1313
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:27,720
Speaker 1: was like like two of our heroes because you know

1314
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:30,719
Speaker 1: that that we were. You know, it was a different

1315
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:33,160
Speaker 1: thing he was. It was a big deal, like because

1316
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:38,479
Speaker 1: it was I saw him in Bangage on Slowly and

1317
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: and I saw him in you know, uh Streets and

1318
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 1: Backs and Driver and I think and they got Father

1319
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:48,599
Speaker 1: part two, so you know, besides like Pacino and Dustin Hoffman,

1320
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,680
Speaker 1: he was like, you know, you know, big hero and

1321
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 1: uh uh. And then I remember when we were in

1322
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 1: the set and he was sitting there and I remember

1323
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 1: two days they could they give me a their hair

1324
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 1: cut and they put me in the forty thing and

1325
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 1: the narrow came in. The said and he didn't like

1326
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:08,519
Speaker 1: the way my college was and he made them change

1327
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 1: my shirt and what did about it? It was wrong.

1328
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 1: It was two weeks. It wasn't right and he said

1329
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:18,720
Speaker 1: it's not right and they fixed it. And you know,

1330
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:20,519
Speaker 1: it was just at the table said hey, Champ, how

1331
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:22,280
Speaker 1: are you doing. Hey Jake, how's it going? And we

1332
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 1: were laughing, you know, the one with Joe Pesci and stuff.

1333
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:28,920
Speaker 1: But I was so nervous. I remember, I was like,

1334
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 1: you know, uh uh, you know, it was like three

1335
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:35,160
Speaker 1: days long, and they took them few days that they

1336
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:37,559
Speaker 1: had to shoot this whole big sequence. So I was

1337
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:40,040
Speaker 1: waiting around a lot. And then later on, you know,

1338
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:43,360
Speaker 1: I got to know and when I did Danny did QC.

1339
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:46,720
Speaker 1: He came to see the play blot, and then I

1340
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:51,040
Speaker 1: auditioned for Marty and did Color of Money, and then

1341
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:54,080
Speaker 1: and then you know, and that I broke with Bob

1342
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 1: a lot, and I worked on a lot of movies

1343
01:12:56,080 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 1: and Mrty executive produced, and you know, I almost was

1344
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 1: in the conversation. They did Good Fellas, but then it

1345
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 1: was like, you know when they used Joe, you know,

1346
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 1: because I was you know, he had the whole relationship

1347
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 1: and Joe was great. But you know, I worked a lot.

1348
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:16,800
Speaker 1: I know Bob really well, you know, and I know

1349
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 1: Marty pretty well to She's actually helped me on the

1350
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:24,680
Speaker 1: movie that directed. But it was a really huge like

1351
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:27,800
Speaker 1: like you know, and then I saw the movie, of course,

1352
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 1: and we were in the movie and it was like

1353
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe I was even like in it for

1354
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:35,599
Speaker 1: and of course in the movie was like I remember

1355
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 1: we went the first day to seeing it and uh,

1356
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:41,479
Speaker 1: I don't looking for me, but you know, it was

1357
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 1: at the Sutton, was at the Shutton, and and then

1358
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 1: I want a lot of times to see it. And

1359
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:52,600
Speaker 1: uh uh it was you know, it was obviously the

1360
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 1: movie you know, stands up you know for the year

1361
01:13:56,680 --> 01:14:00,960
Speaker 1: they did, you know, the peography and the dound and

1362
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:04,000
Speaker 1: acting and but they worked on it for years, you know.

1363
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:07,280
Speaker 1: And uh, I remember, you know, hearing all the stories

1364
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:09,759
Speaker 1: that they found this guy Joe Pesci who had retired

1365
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:15,280
Speaker 1: all and stuff. But it was it was really uh uh.

1366
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 1: And Bob remembers the whole thing, you know, because he

1367
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:22,559
Speaker 1: never forgot that we did that same ye, So it's

1368
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:24,800
Speaker 1: weird that I've become kind of like friendly with them

1369
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:27,760
Speaker 1: over the years. And Watt he introduced me to Francesco

1370
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:30,720
Speaker 1: Rosie when I did The Truth and showed me all

1371
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:33,719
Speaker 1: his films, and he's helping me when I did Mac

1372
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 1: and you know when I showed him, you know, and

1373
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 1: he was the jury when I would be a Humanata

1374
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:41,040
Speaker 1: and Cohn and so it's done, you know, all these things.

1375
01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:44,080
Speaker 1: But still I remember that, and uh, it was just

1376
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:48,080
Speaker 1: it was a different time in movies. It was it

1377
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:50,559
Speaker 1: was almost like the end of it era, right, we

1378
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:53,880
Speaker 1: didn't really know that because it was United Artists and

1379
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 1: was deep in raising boat and had its gate. They

1380
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 1: basically be in the bankrupt. I want that comple that

1381
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:03,720
Speaker 1: kind of change the whole movie, you know, industry, Like

1382
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:09,920
Speaker 1: there's a different time, you know where it was said

1383
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 1: at the end of the golden era of everything and uh,

1384
01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:18,280
Speaker 1: but I know who was my first experience. So de

1385
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:23,200
Speaker 1: Niro's performance is like considered a benchmark in in acting

1386
01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:26,599
Speaker 1: and and and a benchmark in method acting and and

1387
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:28,760
Speaker 1: this is there's no right or wrong way to answer this.

1388
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 1: I just want to hear you if you could articulate

1389
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:35,719
Speaker 1: what is method acting. I mean, he's studying with Stella Adla,

1390
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:39,720
Speaker 1: and I think she really helps him, you know, use

1391
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 1: you know, make things personal and use his imagination and

1392
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 1: you know, be able to work physically on things. And

1393
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:51,920
Speaker 1: she's a real student of Stella ads and whatever her

1394
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:56,639
Speaker 1: technique is, which is documented very well. You know, it's

1395
01:15:56,760 --> 01:15:59,320
Speaker 1: very different than maybe the Strassberds and the Good and

1396
01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 1: also different then Sandy Mines, you know. But I think

1397
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 1: what people were all doing where they were delving you know,

1398
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:12,880
Speaker 1: in themselves and also your imagination and you know, and

1399
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:15,600
Speaker 1: I think, you know, in his particular case and that

1400
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:20,080
Speaker 1: things very you know, he chained years. You know, he

1401
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 1: didn't get all pumped up. Really he trained really years.

1402
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:27,040
Speaker 1: And I think basically, you know, after he didn't he

1403
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:29,000
Speaker 1: did the big weight gain because he was interested how

1404
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 1: I actually blow up that kind of like wounded for

1405
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:34,920
Speaker 1: every live reactor because after that they were like, well,

1406
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:37,559
Speaker 1: I gotta really gain the way they can't have defect

1407
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:41,640
Speaker 1: suit and stuff like that, and it changed things. He

1408
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:46,320
Speaker 1: kind of you know, uh, he just changed things that way.

1409
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:48,599
Speaker 1: But I mean, I think he was just really doing

1410
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:54,719
Speaker 1: it just because he saw how athletes was so you know, uh,

1411
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:57,680
Speaker 1: in such fantastic shape and then they blow up so

1412
01:16:57,760 --> 01:16:59,719
Speaker 1: much and it was very bad, I know, for his help.

1413
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 1: You very bad for his help. And uh, you know,

1414
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:07,559
Speaker 1: but I think I think the acting in that movie

1415
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 1: is really between the characters, not just him alone. I mean,

1416
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:14,080
Speaker 1: Joe is very good as good as him and goes

1417
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 1: head to Edward and Kathy is great in the movie.

1418
01:17:17,120 --> 01:17:19,360
Speaker 1: And I really do think you see a lot of

1419
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:23,400
Speaker 1: teamwork in that movie. And I think it's not just

1420
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:26,679
Speaker 1: like a you know, toward the force type of thing,

1421
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,200
Speaker 1: and Uh, but it's just I think there's a lot

1422
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 1: of like just great dedication to something. Uh and you

1423
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:42,080
Speaker 1: see that now, but it's it's it's not always other

1424
01:17:42,160 --> 01:17:46,320
Speaker 1: piece and that is other piece. The other people it's

1425
01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:49,640
Speaker 1: other piece. And I don't think it's like done to

1426
01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:53,800
Speaker 1: just be you know, uh, flashy and this or that.

1427
01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:57,599
Speaker 1: And I think you know that they had a whole

1428
01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:01,560
Speaker 1: thing going between them, you know, him and Marty and

1429
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:04,800
Speaker 1: and Joe certainly lose it. You know, he said that

1430
01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:06,560
Speaker 1: you know in a movie when you saw him, you

1431
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:08,839
Speaker 1: were like, who is this guy? I mean, you couldn't

1432
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:11,439
Speaker 1: do that today, you mean, you know, in a way,

1433
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:13,479
Speaker 1: they were kind of brilliant, like here's a guy who's

1434
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:20,040
Speaker 1: a non guy playing another character, playing against an unknown

1435
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:23,880
Speaker 1: actor and actress, which makes it look much more believable

1436
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:27,280
Speaker 1: as that character instead of playing against like you know,

1437
01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:29,080
Speaker 1: if Harvey would have played it, which I think they

1438
01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 1: probably thought, then it would have been like, oh it's

1439
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:34,080
Speaker 1: Harvey in Bob again, you know from mean Streets. But

1440
01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 1: this you may have seemed much more like Jates because

1441
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:41,240
Speaker 1: these other people seem so real, and uh, I know

1442
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 1: it's very hard to do nowadays to do that. You

1443
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 1: can't really do that nowadays. And I just think the

1444
01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:52,759
Speaker 1: nature of it is and that makes the well known

1445
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:56,320
Speaker 1: person look fresh, you know, the man. And I just

1446
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:59,479
Speaker 1: think it just reminded me to movie need that movie

1447
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:04,680
Speaker 1: them into me of going to acting class. And I

1448
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:09,960
Speaker 1: remember I was in the study in Deth of the Salesman, Uh,

1449
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:12,599
Speaker 1: Dustin Hoffman and Ductin Off. When he saw the movie,

1450
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:15,080
Speaker 1: he said that was like going back to class watching

1451
01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:18,000
Speaker 1: a lot of those scenes and and and it was

1452
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:21,680
Speaker 1: I could I study. Liked just got about Motco who

1453
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:24,800
Speaker 1: was Sandy Meisner's you know, he studied with Sandy and

1454
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:27,519
Speaker 1: he was an assistant and and you know it was

1455
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:29,640
Speaker 1: like when you want to watch a great scene in

1456
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 1: the class and you were like people were just doing

1457
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:36,080
Speaker 1: it to do it, you know, not for money, not

1458
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:39,000
Speaker 1: for saying you and you just you trying to feel

1459
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 1: that in the movie, you know of when those guys are,

1460
01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:45,240
Speaker 1: you know, they're really working with each other really well.

1461
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:48,360
Speaker 1: And I know that body, you know he you know

1462
01:19:48,439 --> 01:19:50,439
Speaker 1: he was shipped before he did it, and you know

1463
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 1: he killed himself on it, you know, I know that

1464
01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:54,639
Speaker 1: he was he didn't want to finish ever editing the movie.

1465
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:57,320
Speaker 1: He had like basically pulling away from him at the

1466
01:19:57,400 --> 01:19:59,759
Speaker 1: last minute, you know, to get it in the theater.

1467
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:03,840
Speaker 1: He was still sludging with his one of the lines

1468
01:20:03,960 --> 01:20:08,519
Speaker 1: or something. Uh. But you know it's they were. They

1469
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:10,920
Speaker 1: were definitely trying to push it. So people didn't do

1470
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,519
Speaker 1: a lot of interviews in those days, so you didn't

1471
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 1: really know who the people were, and it made you

1472
01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:20,800
Speaker 1: kind of go with it more right. They didn't. They

1473
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:23,439
Speaker 1: didn't talk about it very much. Job, why I don't

1474
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:25,720
Speaker 1: want to keep you. I I appreciate it. You know,

1475
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:28,880
Speaker 1: you're you're I mean, you know, I always tell you this.

1476
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:31,720
Speaker 1: You're my guy. I just have so much respect to you.

1477
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:35,960
Speaker 1: So I appreciate you doing this. Uh, my pleasure and

1478
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:38,840
Speaker 1: uh and and and hopefully hopefully I'll see you soon John,

1479
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:42,840
Speaker 1: and enjoy the holiday. All right, but since John, thank

1480
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:44,960
Speaker 1: you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it.

1481
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:48,320
Speaker 1: My pleasure. Okay, thanks to hear your voice, like, I'll

1482
01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:54,200
Speaker 1: talk to you soon, John. Okay, all right. This is

1483
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:58,480
Speaker 1: the I M Rapp Poor podcast All raising bull episode

1484
01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:02,400
Speaker 1: and some who I just a lot of the people

1485
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:06,840
Speaker 1: that I'm interviewing, I just intuitively know that they love

1486
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:11,680
Speaker 1: raging both sou One of the funniest uh sort of underrated,

1487
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:15,240
Speaker 1: underappreciated people who Uh, I'm a fan of his, Jim Brewer,

1488
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:18,360
Speaker 1: And I've always loved all his stuff and all his impressions.

1489
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:22,800
Speaker 1: And he does the best Joe Pesci impression. I've never

1490
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:26,680
Speaker 1: heard him actually speak on Raging Bowl. But again, I

1491
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:29,800
Speaker 1: just I'm pretty sure that he's into it. And UM,

1492
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:33,120
Speaker 1: get him and get his impression of the film, what

1493
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:36,559
Speaker 1: it means to him, what he likes about it, what

1494
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:40,040
Speaker 1: he doesn't like about it, and uh, this, that and

1495
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:44,960
Speaker 1: the other thing. So we're calling him live right now,

1496
01:21:45,439 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 1: comedian actor, funny motherfucker Jim Brewer. All right, this is

1497
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:54,880
Speaker 1: the Iron Wrap or podcast speak of the Jim Brewer.

1498
01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 1: Um and and and I've never actually i've never act

1499
01:22:00,120 --> 01:22:02,640
Speaker 1: we spoken to you about Raging Bull. But I just

1500
01:22:02,720 --> 01:22:05,840
Speaker 1: intuitively guessed when I when I was decided to do

1501
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:10,280
Speaker 1: this this episode, that you would be somebody who loves

1502
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:12,920
Speaker 1: the movie, and and and then you know, checking with you,

1503
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:17,400
Speaker 1: I'm right. So what is it about the movie? Uh

1504
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:19,360
Speaker 1: that that you you know, you said to me that

1505
01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:21,439
Speaker 1: you said it's it's one of your favorite movies, if

1506
01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:23,040
Speaker 1: not your favorite. We talked to me about the movie.

1507
01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 1: I've talked enough, Jim. I mean, I'm sure you've got

1508
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:27,439
Speaker 1: much much, a lot of things to say about about

1509
01:22:27,479 --> 01:22:28,920
Speaker 1: Rage and bull So talk to me about it and

1510
01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:31,000
Speaker 1: what it means to you and what what what's exciting

1511
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:33,759
Speaker 1: about it, what's funny about it, and everything in between.

1512
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:36,760
Speaker 1: There were so many things that resonated with me. I

1513
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:42,600
Speaker 1: was a kid and my I had an Italian um nanny.

1514
01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:46,320
Speaker 1: So the DeNiro role was very much like the guy

1515
01:22:46,400 --> 01:22:50,320
Speaker 1: that I called Grandpa, who at the end of that

1516
01:22:50,439 --> 01:22:55,760
Speaker 1: relationship actually got violent with uh with with the with

1517
01:22:55,840 --> 01:23:00,160
Speaker 1: there at home with my nanny, so that ended really bad.

1518
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:03,200
Speaker 1: I remember being a kid, so they were and where

1519
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:05,320
Speaker 1: I grew up, you know, even though it was a

1520
01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:07,439
Speaker 1: long island people don't think of it, it was a

1521
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:09,840
Speaker 1: lot of that. It was a lot of that. So

1522
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 1: that was the first thing that really and I would

1523
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:19,960
Speaker 1: I would find myself laughing at the hero because when

1524
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:25,320
Speaker 1: when something so real life, I I just I instantly

1525
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:27,640
Speaker 1: crack I don't know why, I just cracked up. To me,

1526
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:30,760
Speaker 1: it was an impression on everyone that I grew up

1527
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:34,600
Speaker 1: with around me. It was it was, it was brilliant.

1528
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:39,280
Speaker 1: And I remember going to school because I was too

1529
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:43,120
Speaker 1: kind of too young to see the movie. And I

1530
01:23:43,160 --> 01:23:46,200
Speaker 1: remember and I told my dad to my dad, wasn't

1531
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:49,120
Speaker 1: a big movie guy. I said, Dad, you gotta watch

1532
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:52,879
Speaker 1: this movie. Mom's not gonna like it, but you gotta

1533
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:58,400
Speaker 1: watch this movie. And that became my altar. And that

1534
01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:02,680
Speaker 1: movie made me start watching de Niro and Pessi that

1535
01:24:03,720 --> 01:24:06,280
Speaker 1: to this day, I still say those are the two

1536
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:12,639
Speaker 1: best acting roles that have ever resonated with me, probably

1537
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 1: in history. I mean, Good Fellas is great, and so

1538
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:20,759
Speaker 1: many other movies and Nicolas, but but but so many

1539
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:25,519
Speaker 1: little scenes in that movie still stick out in my head,

1540
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:28,720
Speaker 1: almost almost bigger than when the first time I saw

1541
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:33,160
Speaker 1: Star Wars. So many scenes, the scene with the you

1542
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:36,280
Speaker 1: want you steak, you might bring it over? You want

1543
01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:41,000
Speaker 1: you stick? Just a slow rising boiling in him, bring

1544
01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:43,599
Speaker 1: it over? How long? Gotta wait? How long you want

1545
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:49,920
Speaker 1: your fucking steak over? And then Pei comes always like hey,

1546
01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:53,320
Speaker 1: she's yelling in the background, aggivation. Yeah, I'm lowing you up.

1547
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:56,960
Speaker 1: You get aggivation, you can't do this, you can't do this,

1548
01:24:57,080 --> 01:25:00,479
Speaker 1: and and the and the scene of hit me in

1549
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:02,760
Speaker 1: the face, what the fund is wrong? And I'm not

1550
01:25:02,760 --> 01:25:05,120
Speaker 1: gonna punch you in the face and the punching in

1551
01:25:05,200 --> 01:25:11,160
Speaker 1: the face scene, and Scorsesey just a little scene when um,

1552
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:13,320
Speaker 1: they're waiting for the one fight and they're sitting in

1553
01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:17,639
Speaker 1: the room and he's, oh, it's right, it's right before

1554
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 1: tom and Tommy and all of them leave, and he

1555
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:27,719
Speaker 1: sees right before that was when pet she's ordering the food. Yeah,

1556
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:30,599
Speaker 1: he saw him. You know, he we want, we want.

1557
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:37,080
Speaker 1: But that scene, he just it's so simple, but it's

1558
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:41,400
Speaker 1: just captivating. The years, just prancing like a tiger. There's

1559
01:25:41,439 --> 01:25:45,519
Speaker 1: so many things going on with him. It was and

1560
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:49,360
Speaker 1: even to this day. I watched it again the other night.

1561
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:52,840
Speaker 1: I you know, I'm sitting there with my wife and

1562
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:56,559
Speaker 1: she goes, um, you know she really like that. I mean,

1563
01:25:56,600 --> 01:25:59,880
Speaker 1: do you do? I go, what was he really cheat?

1564
01:26:00,200 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 1: I go, well, that's I think that's the brilliance of

1565
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:07,559
Speaker 1: this Scorceges makes you feel what the nero is feeling.

1566
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:11,000
Speaker 1: And you know she hit her no, But there's so

1567
01:26:11,120 --> 01:26:13,800
Speaker 1: much ship going on. His pride was taken away, and

1568
01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:17,280
Speaker 1: Pesci just is his brother and he's looking at it

1569
01:26:17,320 --> 01:26:21,800
Speaker 1: after him, but he's also knows to get to the championship,

1570
01:26:21,880 --> 01:26:25,080
Speaker 1: he's got to sell his soul as oh, my god,

1571
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:27,400
Speaker 1: there's a lot of ship in that movie. I get.

1572
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:29,839
Speaker 1: I can talk about that movie for hours and hours

1573
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:33,479
Speaker 1: and hours and I and I understand all views when

1574
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:36,280
Speaker 1: I watched that movie. Even you feel bad for the

1575
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:41,040
Speaker 1: scene when he's when he breaks down in the jail cell.

1576
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:46,200
Speaker 1: He's just finally all came down. You're so stober, so stober.

1577
01:26:49,080 --> 01:26:51,240
Speaker 1: What what do you think it is that that? You know,

1578
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:55,080
Speaker 1: because I think men and women look at this movie differently,

1579
01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:57,840
Speaker 1: you know, and and and and and for some for

1580
01:26:57,880 --> 01:27:05,320
Speaker 1: a character to be abusive, self destructive motherfucker, yet I'm

1581
01:27:05,360 --> 01:27:09,840
Speaker 1: doing a podcast about it. You obviously feel is enthusiastic

1582
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:13,160
Speaker 1: about the movie and as the character. Uh, you know,

1583
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:15,120
Speaker 1: it's not like we're glorifying it. But what do you

1584
01:27:15,120 --> 01:27:18,839
Speaker 1: think it is about men that were relating to somebody?

1585
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:22,360
Speaker 1: That's so you know, on paper, you'd be like, why

1586
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:24,120
Speaker 1: would you want to watch this movie? Why are you

1587
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:26,920
Speaker 1: even discussing this movie? This guy's a fucking scumbag. He

1588
01:27:27,040 --> 01:27:29,240
Speaker 1: beats his wife, Like what do you think it is?

1589
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:31,320
Speaker 1: You know, it's because it's obviously it's not like we're

1590
01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:33,400
Speaker 1: like thinking, like, you know, this is the lone ranger,

1591
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:36,200
Speaker 1: but but we're sitting here talking about it, and and

1592
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:37,920
Speaker 1: and obviously there's humors. So what do you think it

1593
01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:40,760
Speaker 1: is about men specifically? Because you're a man, I'm a man,

1594
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:42,559
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to get woman's point of view wanted.

1595
01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:43,760
Speaker 1: But what do you think it is about men that

1596
01:27:43,800 --> 01:27:47,000
Speaker 1: we relate to this character and feel some sort of compassion.

1597
01:27:47,439 --> 01:27:50,679
Speaker 1: It's a foe blown. I think it's a respect thing.

1598
01:27:51,479 --> 01:27:55,240
Speaker 1: All a man wants in life is to know he's

1599
01:27:56,040 --> 01:28:01,360
Speaker 1: he's respected and that he's um. It's like when I'm

1600
01:28:01,400 --> 01:28:06,200
Speaker 1: gone on the road and I come back appreciated. Appreciated

1601
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:10,439
Speaker 1: and respected. Those are the two biggest things that are

1602
01:28:10,720 --> 01:28:14,519
Speaker 1: very needy for a man. That's what fulfit that. That's

1603
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 1: how a man is fulfilled. He feels respected. Um. And

1604
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:26,320
Speaker 1: and when you watch that movie, they need Ray j

1605
01:28:26,560 --> 01:28:30,920
Speaker 1: Jacolmata is a fighter, that's all he knows. He's just

1606
01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:34,400
Speaker 1: you know, part of him is a dumb ox. But

1607
01:28:34,520 --> 01:28:37,040
Speaker 1: he's not really a dumb hocks. He's just he's just

1608
01:28:37,120 --> 01:28:39,519
Speaker 1: trying to get by. And that's that's what he is.

1609
01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 1: That's what he but in his small world. And at

1610
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:48,840
Speaker 1: the end, they do they do disrespect him. They do

1611
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:53,080
Speaker 1: ship behind his back. They do make him do things

1612
01:28:53,200 --> 01:28:57,560
Speaker 1: that that you know, if it's like me or you,

1613
01:28:58,479 --> 01:29:00,439
Speaker 1: and they're like, listen, you want to be Michael, you

1614
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:03,200
Speaker 1: want to play the big role. We gotta play this role.

1615
01:29:03,439 --> 01:29:07,400
Speaker 1: I don't want to play that role. Yeah, well you

1616
01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:09,400
Speaker 1: want to put you want to start with this guy.

1617
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 1: You gotta play this role. And it's so you feel

1618
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:19,320
Speaker 1: like a whore. You feel humiliated, you feel degraded. It's embarrassing.

1619
01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:22,519
Speaker 1: The people around you're like, why would you do something

1620
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:26,200
Speaker 1: like that? It's it's just a horrible fear. I've done it.

1621
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:30,960
Speaker 1: I've done it multiple times. It's the most disturbing, disgusting feeling.

1622
01:29:31,160 --> 01:29:35,120
Speaker 1: So when the people involved now or technically your wife,

1623
01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:40,960
Speaker 1: you're your brother, and the tightest people that he trust

1624
01:29:41,080 --> 01:29:44,599
Speaker 1: the most, you know, you still who's that You're alone,

1625
01:29:44,840 --> 01:29:47,920
Speaker 1: You're you. You can see where the frustrationizing, where he

1626
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:52,040
Speaker 1: started losing his mind, and you know they're controlling him,

1627
01:29:52,080 --> 01:29:55,479
Speaker 1: and Tommy's control. It's a it's not a good place

1628
01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:58,800
Speaker 1: to be in life. And I felt his fury, I

1629
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:03,799
Speaker 1: felt his anger. I would have never have I probably

1630
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:05,920
Speaker 1: would have never have done what he did because that's

1631
01:30:05,960 --> 01:30:11,880
Speaker 1: just not me. But I felt I felt all of

1632
01:30:11,960 --> 01:30:14,960
Speaker 1: it even when he felt horrible after beating the ship

1633
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:19,439
Speaker 1: out of his brother. That's one of the most unbelievable seeds,

1634
01:30:19,479 --> 01:30:26,479
Speaker 1: that she's chasing him down the straits. You suck, you know.

1635
01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:29,799
Speaker 1: He walks in and bang bangs fun of the kids

1636
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:32,880
Speaker 1: and he's pouncing them and oh my god. But you

1637
01:30:33,080 --> 01:30:36,280
Speaker 1: feel it. You feel it when he goes that scene

1638
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:40,560
Speaker 1: right before that goes down to me. That describes the

1639
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:44,240
Speaker 1: whole feeling of his world coming down when he goes

1640
01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:49,519
Speaker 1: what happened down in the copa? Yeah, well I didn't

1641
01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:51,559
Speaker 1: tell you what happened. He just fucking lied to him.

1642
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:53,240
Speaker 1: But I didn't tell you. It wasn't often and he

1643
01:30:53,320 --> 01:30:56,200
Speaker 1: saw you. He mouthed off. I slapped around, that was it?

1644
01:30:56,360 --> 01:31:00,160
Speaker 1: It sucking? He showed Tommy's OVA and he know was

1645
01:31:00,240 --> 01:31:03,000
Speaker 1: He's just looking at him and he knows and you

1646
01:31:03,080 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 1: were as the viewer. No, he goes, you have to

1647
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:09,200
Speaker 1: do with Vicky? No, I told I told you. Don't

1648
01:31:09,240 --> 01:31:11,200
Speaker 1: you think I would have told you if it had

1649
01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:13,760
Speaker 1: something to do with Vicky? It was spotted him and

1650
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:17,160
Speaker 1: I slammed around that she's sucking. Hit the thing, you know, Joey,

1651
01:31:17,200 --> 01:31:20,160
Speaker 1: I'm asking you a lot of questions. You're not answering.

1652
01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:23,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you again, did you what did you not?

1653
01:31:23,880 --> 01:31:27,599
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna ask you. That's a sick question. You're sick,

1654
01:31:27,760 --> 01:31:30,040
Speaker 1: fucking I ain't. That's sick on me? Ask you you

1655
01:31:30,479 --> 01:31:34,719
Speaker 1: my wife? Oh? Whoa you? Will you get your fucking balls?

1656
01:31:34,800 --> 01:31:37,160
Speaker 1: Being up to ask me? I'm your brother, Do you

1657
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:39,920
Speaker 1: get your fucking balls? Asked Nick, question, I'm gonna ask

1658
01:31:39,960 --> 01:31:43,559
Speaker 1: you again, did you what did you not? And then

1659
01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:47,240
Speaker 1: then he goes, that's a sick question. You're sick, fucking

1660
01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:50,559
Speaker 1: I ain't that sick. Ask you? You know I feel

1661
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:52,800
Speaker 1: bad for you. You know that you're sucking. I feel

1662
01:31:52,840 --> 01:31:54,920
Speaker 1: bag you get help. You should worry about your weight.

1663
01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:57,360
Speaker 1: You stop sucking. You don't have problems upstairs and taking

1664
01:31:57,400 --> 01:32:09,840
Speaker 1: on me. You know what's crazy about that movie is

1665
01:32:10,080 --> 01:32:12,360
Speaker 1: that I like I saw a young too. I saw

1666
01:32:12,439 --> 01:32:14,040
Speaker 1: at ten, so I didn't know what was going on,

1667
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:19,360
Speaker 1: but I responded at an emotional level, and I don't

1668
01:32:19,400 --> 01:32:21,880
Speaker 1: think even adult and an adult at the time, I

1669
01:32:21,960 --> 01:32:27,000
Speaker 1: couldn't imagine an adult the first viewing UM taking that

1670
01:32:27,120 --> 01:32:29,880
Speaker 1: in as funny. But after you watch it, you know,

1671
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:32,040
Speaker 1: I don't know how many times I started to realize

1672
01:32:32,040 --> 01:32:33,960
Speaker 1: that it was funny. But you know, one of the

1673
01:32:34,040 --> 01:32:36,519
Speaker 1: things that keeps coming up is the humor of the movie.

1674
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:38,840
Speaker 1: And I think you have to sort of be desensitized

1675
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:41,479
Speaker 1: from the violence of it, and then you keep watching

1676
01:32:41,560 --> 01:32:44,560
Speaker 1: it and then because the tension is so palpable and

1677
01:32:44,720 --> 01:32:48,600
Speaker 1: his and I think the humor comes from when somebody's

1678
01:32:48,760 --> 01:32:53,920
Speaker 1: so frustrated and and and and and so overly like

1679
01:32:54,120 --> 01:32:56,240
Speaker 1: I mean, there he's so dead faced, like if this

1680
01:32:56,360 --> 01:32:59,280
Speaker 1: was a comedy, like this is the best, the straightest,

1681
01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:02,600
Speaker 1: like Jacob totally straight, like he's the straightest of the

1682
01:33:02,680 --> 01:33:05,280
Speaker 1: straight man ever in terms of comedy, and all this

1683
01:33:05,439 --> 01:33:07,920
Speaker 1: ship going around, like when you're watching it, he's so

1684
01:33:08,160 --> 01:33:13,280
Speaker 1: fucking angry that it becomes funny, so fucking funny. Even

1685
01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:17,240
Speaker 1: Petci with his angles that scored says you had and

1686
01:33:17,360 --> 01:33:21,120
Speaker 1: Peci was always like from above, so you always it

1687
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:23,880
Speaker 1: never was from like id I A lot of times

1688
01:33:23,880 --> 01:33:27,080
Speaker 1: you would teach from above and he would capture his

1689
01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:30,120
Speaker 1: fucking look, his twisted looking. You can see everything going

1690
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:33,120
Speaker 1: on in his fucking head. That one seemed he goes, um,

1691
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:37,200
Speaker 1: what's so hard? He give me face? He touched my face?

1692
01:33:37,320 --> 01:33:39,200
Speaker 1: They flash him and then he falls down on the

1693
01:33:39,240 --> 01:33:42,760
Speaker 1: floor and that's how fucking hard. Slow down and you

1694
01:33:42,840 --> 01:33:45,360
Speaker 1: got what you want, then you fucking need going to book.

1695
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:48,320
Speaker 1: What's so hard about that bitch is his fucking face.

1696
01:33:48,360 --> 01:33:52,040
Speaker 1: But what are you where? You were saying, Michael, I'm

1697
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:53,680
Speaker 1: sitting there in the bed the other day of my

1698
01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:56,719
Speaker 1: wife and that scene with the Holt when he's fat

1699
01:33:57,360 --> 01:34:00,200
Speaker 1: and he's trying to fix the TV, and there's a

1700
01:34:00,320 --> 01:34:05,519
Speaker 1: brilliant it's such brilliant because he's breathing heavy. I was

1701
01:34:06,200 --> 01:34:10,320
Speaker 1: I was fucking howling. I was belly laughing, and my

1702
01:34:10,439 --> 01:34:13,679
Speaker 1: wife's going, what what are you laughing at? It could

1703
01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:17,960
Speaker 1: be he's fucking funny. He fat, he sticks in the

1704
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:21,040
Speaker 1: TV his heads and he's just looking at him. He's

1705
01:34:21,080 --> 01:34:26,599
Speaker 1: dying to ask him to quick fucking funny miss so well,

1706
01:34:26,680 --> 01:34:31,840
Speaker 1: I'm not a cop punching chew in the sandwich. I

1707
01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:35,120
Speaker 1: it's so even when he's wearing it, even when he's

1708
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:37,719
Speaker 1: cocky and he's threats a certain way and he's walking

1709
01:34:37,760 --> 01:34:39,760
Speaker 1: down the street and he and he pulls his belt

1710
01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:43,280
Speaker 1: but he holds onto his belt buckle. Oh my god,

1711
01:34:43,400 --> 01:34:47,040
Speaker 1: I'm I'm howling with laughter. It's so funny. I guess

1712
01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:50,560
Speaker 1: because I knew that guy. I hear him, I hear you,

1713
01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:53,280
Speaker 1: I hear you. Well, this is good ship, Jim. I.

1714
01:34:53,320 --> 01:34:56,400
Speaker 1: I appreciate it, and um, you know I don't want

1715
01:34:56,400 --> 01:34:58,720
Speaker 1: to take I I mean I literally could talk to

1716
01:34:58,800 --> 01:35:01,200
Speaker 1: you because you're you're his easy about this movie as me,

1717
01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:04,640
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of us out there. Um um,

1718
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:06,040
Speaker 1: so you know I don't want to. I don't want

1719
01:35:06,040 --> 01:35:08,599
Speaker 1: to take up too much of your time. I appreciate it. Well,

1720
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:11,760
Speaker 1: thank you, and I gotta I gotta tell you you're

1721
01:35:11,880 --> 01:35:14,519
Speaker 1: the You're one of the only few that I've heard

1722
01:35:14,600 --> 01:35:17,920
Speaker 1: the word comedy come up as to me, it's one

1723
01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:21,080
Speaker 1: of the funniest movies. I mean, it's fucking brilliant, an

1724
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:24,120
Speaker 1: emotional roller grolster, but there's some scenes in there that

1725
01:35:24,240 --> 01:35:28,120
Speaker 1: make me barely laugh, bally laugh. And I'm I'm glad

1726
01:35:28,280 --> 01:35:30,600
Speaker 1: you're just as nuts as I am. And all the

1727
01:35:30,640 --> 01:35:32,519
Speaker 1: best here and thanks for asking me to do this man,

1728
01:35:32,640 --> 01:35:36,360
Speaker 1: big fan, big props, and m Marry Chris is Happy

1729
01:35:36,400 --> 01:35:39,960
Speaker 1: New Year, and unless it's not dated, just have a

1730
01:35:40,040 --> 01:35:44,320
Speaker 1: game going you fucking might you hello? You listen to me,

1731
01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:53,120
Speaker 1: I hear you breathing. Larry, who's an animal. Larry you animal, animal,

1732
01:35:53,320 --> 01:35:58,240
Speaker 1: your son of animal? Shut up you if filthy animals,

1733
01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:10,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take that dog to kill. It is Adam Carolla.

1734
01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:16,280
Speaker 1: It's a three anniversary of Raging Bull, the film. Yeah,

1735
01:36:16,400 --> 01:36:17,960
Speaker 1: so so, first of all, I want to talk to

1736
01:36:18,000 --> 01:36:20,599
Speaker 1: you about, like, what do you think I mean, as

1737
01:36:20,640 --> 01:36:24,120
Speaker 1: a performer, as an actor, as an admirer of film,

1738
01:36:24,240 --> 01:36:26,920
Speaker 1: as now a filmmaker yourself, talk to me about Raging

1739
01:36:27,000 --> 01:36:29,200
Speaker 1: Bull in terms of the context, you know, like just

1740
01:36:29,320 --> 01:36:31,960
Speaker 1: to just to sort of preface it. Uh, you know,

1741
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:35,880
Speaker 1: it was. It was voted the best film of the eighties. Um,

1742
01:36:36,240 --> 01:36:38,600
Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, it was like a benchmark

1743
01:36:39,160 --> 01:36:42,599
Speaker 1: of acting. I don't think that de Niro's performance has

1744
01:36:42,680 --> 01:36:45,960
Speaker 1: ever been duplicated, because I don't think another production will

1745
01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:48,680
Speaker 1: allow an actor to start one way, shut down for

1746
01:36:48,760 --> 01:36:51,519
Speaker 1: six months, and then gain weight within the same movie,

1747
01:36:51,960 --> 01:36:54,559
Speaker 1: which is what they did for Raging Bull. Um so too.

1748
01:36:54,680 --> 01:36:56,240
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you know, it's funny. I was

1749
01:36:56,320 --> 01:36:58,639
Speaker 1: watching that movie the other day. I love that movie.

1750
01:36:59,040 --> 01:37:01,920
Speaker 1: I love everything about that movie. I love the comedy

1751
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:03,640
Speaker 1: in it. There's a lot of comedy. And talk to

1752
01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:07,719
Speaker 1: talk about that well, I mean Pesci and de Niro

1753
01:37:07,840 --> 01:37:11,120
Speaker 1: are great, and they have these great scenes that are

1754
01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:14,960
Speaker 1: born from all this tension. And you know, like the

1755
01:37:15,040 --> 01:37:17,800
Speaker 1: scene where he's telling him to punch him, and he's like,

1756
01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:19,960
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna punch you. You're my brother. Why would

1757
01:37:19,960 --> 01:37:21,400
Speaker 1: I punch it? And then by the end of the

1758
01:37:21,439 --> 01:37:24,719
Speaker 1: scene he's trying to kill him. That's a great comedy,

1759
01:37:26,360 --> 01:37:30,960
Speaker 1: but it is done completely dry. Nobody's winking at the camera.

1760
01:37:31,200 --> 01:37:34,880
Speaker 1: There's no smiling going on. It's like the purest form

1761
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:39,639
Speaker 1: of comedy. It's actual. It's an actual thing that's taking place,

1762
01:37:39,920 --> 01:37:42,600
Speaker 1: which is like a really pure comedy concept, which is

1763
01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:47,320
Speaker 1: very beginning of the scene is I would never do

1764
01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:50,559
Speaker 1: this thing to you. You're my brother. I wouldn't even

1765
01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:52,759
Speaker 1: do it to a stranger, much less my own brother.

1766
01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:54,880
Speaker 1: And then by the end of the scene, I'm trying

1767
01:37:54,920 --> 01:37:59,479
Speaker 1: to kill you, and it comedically is a very strong choice.

1768
01:38:00,160 --> 01:38:03,640
Speaker 1: So I love that. I love all the comedy in

1769
01:38:03,760 --> 01:38:07,200
Speaker 1: the movie that you may not even get or understand.

1770
01:38:07,280 --> 01:38:09,240
Speaker 1: I love when Denia tells his wife to get out

1771
01:38:09,320 --> 01:38:11,760
Speaker 1: of get out of the room, and then and then

1772
01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:13,840
Speaker 1: Pesci looks at his wife and goes, yeah, what do

1773
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:15,360
Speaker 1: you look at? Get out of here? And like you

1774
01:38:15,439 --> 01:38:16,840
Speaker 1: can tell he's just kind of doing with his big

1775
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:21,400
Speaker 1: brother just did and lots of good subtle stuff. I

1776
01:38:22,000 --> 01:38:24,280
Speaker 1: was thinking about that movie because it was on the

1777
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:30,200
Speaker 1: other day, and I was like realizing that, you know,

1778
01:38:30,280 --> 01:38:31,960
Speaker 1: everyone's like, well, he had to get into shape and

1779
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:34,720
Speaker 1: they shot all that ship, and then later then he

1780
01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:37,519
Speaker 1: got fat and he shot all that ship. And then

1781
01:38:37,960 --> 01:38:41,280
Speaker 1: I was picturing the scene where he had the Gennero

1782
01:38:41,400 --> 01:38:44,479
Speaker 1: fight coming up and he was calling him up, stop

1783
01:38:44,600 --> 01:38:46,760
Speaker 1: eating so much your fat fuck you know, yeah, you

1784
01:38:46,840 --> 01:38:48,479
Speaker 1: gotta you gotta make weight, and he does this thing

1785
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:52,040
Speaker 1: where he's like, look, you make weight. You beat the

1786
01:38:52,080 --> 01:38:54,080
Speaker 1: crap out of this guy. You don't make weight, and

1787
01:38:54,200 --> 01:38:56,080
Speaker 1: all these other guys have been ducking. You're gonna have

1788
01:38:56,200 --> 01:38:59,120
Speaker 1: to come out. But it doesn't hurt your reputation if

1789
01:38:59,120 --> 01:39:03,720
Speaker 1: you wait winning right, right, just get down to a

1790
01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:08,200
Speaker 1: hundred fat, stop right. And I was sick of looking

1791
01:39:08,240 --> 01:39:10,840
Speaker 1: at it, and I was like, yeah, he's he's a

1792
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:14,600
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy five pounds. Here did they film this

1793
01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:18,479
Speaker 1: in between they go get this scene in between the

1794
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:21,519
Speaker 1: in shape scenes and on the way up. They must

1795
01:39:21,560 --> 01:39:23,000
Speaker 1: have got it when he was on the way up.

1796
01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:25,200
Speaker 1: What you mean, I do want to want to go

1797
01:39:25,320 --> 01:39:28,519
Speaker 1: down again. He started obviously at the best shape, and

1798
01:39:28,680 --> 01:39:30,600
Speaker 1: I know what you mean, because throughout the film he

1799
01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:34,040
Speaker 1: starts gaining a little bit of weight, he's out of shape,

1800
01:39:34,720 --> 01:39:37,160
Speaker 1: and then later on he's you know, a fat slop

1801
01:39:37,960 --> 01:39:40,439
Speaker 1: and and all of it's without a fat suit and

1802
01:39:40,680 --> 01:39:42,320
Speaker 1: and and and you know, it's like, I don't think

1803
01:39:42,400 --> 01:39:44,479
Speaker 1: like any production will ever like that will never be

1804
01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:46,760
Speaker 1: achieved again. And at the time, you know, it's still like,

1805
01:39:47,800 --> 01:39:49,639
Speaker 1: you know, it was like as far as like an actor,

1806
01:39:49,760 --> 01:39:52,480
Speaker 1: like you're like, funk man. I mean, that's a fucking performance,

1807
01:39:52,520 --> 01:39:54,320
Speaker 1: Like you know, you get to do all these things,

1808
01:39:54,360 --> 01:39:56,800
Speaker 1: you get to explore, you know, you're you know, all

1809
01:39:56,880 --> 01:40:00,600
Speaker 1: these these different emotions. And then physically actually has have

1810
01:40:00,720 --> 01:40:04,120
Speaker 1: the time to physically change, to start two extremes to

1811
01:40:04,280 --> 01:40:06,760
Speaker 1: start it really fit in shape and like you know,

1812
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:09,680
Speaker 1: become a boxer and then at the end become this

1813
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:12,800
Speaker 1: fat fuck with no fat suit. And it's just like

1814
01:40:13,000 --> 01:40:15,439
Speaker 1: it's just sort of a benchmark, you know what I mean.

1815
01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:20,680
Speaker 1: And then the direction and everything, everything, everything, you know,

1816
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:26,160
Speaker 1: it was really it was too much too soon for

1817
01:40:26,360 --> 01:40:32,240
Speaker 1: us to fully appreciate and fully absorbed. It was like

1818
01:40:33,120 --> 01:40:37,560
Speaker 1: you were nine year old watching Fantasia or something and

1819
01:40:37,680 --> 01:40:41,040
Speaker 1: you just couldn't appreciate the artistry in it because we

1820
01:40:41,120 --> 01:40:45,760
Speaker 1: were like too immature, too much. You know. It's like

1821
01:40:46,040 --> 01:40:52,800
Speaker 1: it's literally a movie that in we couldn't fully absorbed.

1822
01:40:53,960 --> 01:40:55,920
Speaker 1: I mean we you know, people are like, oh, yeah,

1823
01:40:56,560 --> 01:40:59,240
Speaker 1: that's a good movie, but you know, Mannequin is pretty

1824
01:40:59,240 --> 01:41:01,840
Speaker 1: good movie too. It's like, no, no, no, this is

1825
01:41:01,880 --> 01:41:04,400
Speaker 1: not i mean, on the same planets as any other

1826
01:41:04,520 --> 01:41:09,160
Speaker 1: movie that's really even come before it. And we couldn't.

1827
01:41:10,560 --> 01:41:13,960
Speaker 1: We count were almost felt like like it's like you're

1828
01:41:14,120 --> 01:41:17,240
Speaker 1: you're a dog and you tell the dog don't you

1829
01:41:17,360 --> 01:41:20,040
Speaker 1: like the Kobe beef? And the dog goes no, I

1830
01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:22,200
Speaker 1: like the I like the dog food because it's got

1831
01:41:22,280 --> 01:41:24,479
Speaker 1: like guts and she had ship and you're like, but

1832
01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:28,320
Speaker 1: eat the Kobe. That's that's it. Can't appreciate it. It's

1833
01:41:28,360 --> 01:41:31,880
Speaker 1: like it's Palette's not good enough. It actually thinks that

1834
01:41:32,240 --> 01:41:35,439
Speaker 1: the burger patty that you just slid out of your

1835
01:41:36,120 --> 01:41:39,840
Speaker 1: uh Burger king bun is better than the Kobe beef

1836
01:41:39,880 --> 01:41:42,840
Speaker 1: because it's not good enough. We weren't good enough in

1837
01:41:43,680 --> 01:41:48,280
Speaker 1: to really absorb that movie. All right, this is the

1838
01:41:48,720 --> 01:41:55,960
Speaker 1: I am Rappaport All Raising Bull Podcast, and I'm calling

1839
01:41:56,040 --> 01:42:00,439
Speaker 1: up the dudes from the Dirty Sports Podcast young bulls

1840
01:42:00,479 --> 01:42:03,640
Speaker 1: of the podcast world and see what they have to

1841
01:42:03,640 --> 01:42:07,920
Speaker 1: say about the damn thing. Hello, Hey, this is Michael Rappaport.

1842
01:42:07,960 --> 01:42:10,559
Speaker 1: How are you doing good? How are you? I'm good,

1843
01:42:10,640 --> 01:42:12,360
Speaker 1: I'm good. How's it going? Is this is it? Who

1844
01:42:12,479 --> 01:42:15,080
Speaker 1: is this? This is Joe Pray Now and I got

1845
01:42:15,160 --> 01:42:18,560
Speaker 1: Andy next to me. We're doing an all Raging Bull podcast.

1846
01:42:18,640 --> 01:42:21,599
Speaker 1: I've had some really special people speak on the film.

1847
01:42:22,080 --> 01:42:24,280
Speaker 1: Tell me whatever you're thinking, whatever, whatever you love, whatever

1848
01:42:24,360 --> 01:42:27,519
Speaker 1: you you know, passionate about the movie. Well, for me,

1849
01:42:28,000 --> 01:42:30,479
Speaker 1: you know, being being a guy from New York and

1850
01:42:30,720 --> 01:42:33,800
Speaker 1: my dad and Italian from the Bronx. When the first

1851
01:42:33,840 --> 01:42:36,519
Speaker 1: time I ever watched Raging Bull, I was like, this

1852
01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:40,439
Speaker 1: is how people are there, Like it was so true

1853
01:42:40,479 --> 01:42:43,720
Speaker 1: to life, that's how everybody talks. It was so real.

1854
01:42:44,439 --> 01:42:46,479
Speaker 1: The first time I ever watched it, I was like

1855
01:42:47,680 --> 01:42:50,400
Speaker 1: I was immediately engulfed in the story from you know,

1856
01:42:50,520 --> 01:42:52,840
Speaker 1: the first scene where I was like, yeah, I'm on board,

1857
01:42:53,720 --> 01:42:57,640
Speaker 1: this is this is what his last us so and

1858
01:42:57,720 --> 01:43:00,599
Speaker 1: then obviously it's just such a great movie. I think,

1859
01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:04,960
Speaker 1: you know, probably in my opinion, de Niro's best role

1860
01:43:05,040 --> 01:43:08,439
Speaker 1: of all time, which is really saying something right, right right.

1861
01:43:09,120 --> 01:43:10,559
Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that I've been coming

1862
01:43:10,600 --> 01:43:14,280
Speaker 1: across doing this podcast interviewing different people is that the movie,

1863
01:43:15,200 --> 01:43:16,800
Speaker 1: you know, the way men look at the movie and

1864
01:43:16,840 --> 01:43:20,320
Speaker 1: the way women look at the movie is differently, you know, um,

1865
01:43:20,680 --> 01:43:25,000
Speaker 1: because obviously it's such a macho film. You know, it's

1866
01:43:25,040 --> 01:43:27,639
Speaker 1: so it's you know, and it's not like Jake Lamota

1867
01:43:28,200 --> 01:43:31,759
Speaker 1: in in Raging Bull is the lone ranger that macho.

1868
01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:35,320
Speaker 1: You know, it resonated with me so well because I

1869
01:43:35,400 --> 01:43:39,400
Speaker 1: can relate, especially all those scenes with De Niro and

1870
01:43:39,520 --> 01:43:43,519
Speaker 1: Teshi and the ball busting. I mean, my brothers. You know,

1871
01:43:43,560 --> 01:43:45,559
Speaker 1: I'm thirty four now I would have brothers forty one.

1872
01:43:45,600 --> 01:43:47,960
Speaker 1: I mean, we go home and it's like we're kids again.

1873
01:43:48,080 --> 01:43:52,720
Speaker 1: It's the same ship. And to me, you know, that's

1874
01:43:52,720 --> 01:43:55,280
Speaker 1: a huge sticking point of the movie because those are

1875
01:43:55,320 --> 01:43:58,639
Speaker 1: real conversations. You know, there's nothing there's nothing stake about

1876
01:43:58,760 --> 01:44:02,600
Speaker 1: that in the interact ship and the fighting and you know,

1877
01:44:02,880 --> 01:44:04,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll go when I go back to Ohio

1878
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:06,760
Speaker 1: for Christmas, it's gonna be the same thing where it's

1879
01:44:06,800 --> 01:44:09,320
Speaker 1: gonna get you know, it might get physical. I mean

1880
01:44:09,360 --> 01:44:12,000
Speaker 1: that that's how it is. And what about the boxing

1881
01:44:12,160 --> 01:44:14,920
Speaker 1: of it all? You know, uh, you know, like Jake

1882
01:44:15,040 --> 01:44:18,080
Speaker 1: La Matta. You know, obviously I think the probably the

1883
01:44:18,200 --> 01:44:20,920
Speaker 1: truest thing about the film, not to say that it's

1884
01:44:20,960 --> 01:44:23,200
Speaker 1: not true. I mean, but obviously they elaborated on things,

1885
01:44:23,240 --> 01:44:25,360
Speaker 1: and they combined characters and all that stuff. But like,

1886
01:44:25,640 --> 01:44:28,360
Speaker 1: you know, as far as like boxing and and uh,

1887
01:44:28,560 --> 01:44:31,320
Speaker 1: you know where boxing is today and what boxing meant

1888
01:44:31,360 --> 01:44:34,960
Speaker 1: to culturally back then. You know, in in the forties

1889
01:44:34,960 --> 01:44:37,400
Speaker 1: and fifties, sixties, seventies, even into the eighties, you know,

1890
01:44:37,520 --> 01:44:40,519
Speaker 1: boxing was you know, was was a primary sport. It

1891
01:44:40,600 --> 01:44:44,559
Speaker 1: was it was like a mainstream sport. Now it's almost

1892
01:44:44,680 --> 01:44:47,439
Speaker 1: you know, it's behind the UFC, and I feel like

1893
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:50,439
Speaker 1: it's depleting. But like talk about you know, like boxing

1894
01:44:50,479 --> 01:44:52,720
Speaker 1: and because you guys are sports dudes and stuff like that,

1895
01:44:52,800 --> 01:44:55,080
Speaker 1: so you know, like speak on boxing and and and

1896
01:44:55,800 --> 01:44:57,880
Speaker 1: Jake La Matta and and and that whole. So, I

1897
01:44:57,920 --> 01:44:59,880
Speaker 1: mean I never saw him fight. I'm forty. My father

1898
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:01,400
Speaker 1: saw him fight when he was a kid. He went

1899
01:45:01,439 --> 01:45:04,400
Speaker 1: to the garden. He saw him fight Sugary Robinson Um.

1900
01:45:04,920 --> 01:45:07,439
Speaker 1: But like, you know, like the whole boxing aspect of

1901
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:10,160
Speaker 1: it to me, because to me, you know, the boxing

1902
01:45:10,200 --> 01:45:12,560
Speaker 1: scenes are the most stylized, and you know, like I

1903
01:45:12,600 --> 01:45:16,040
Speaker 1: don't think any film is ever, you know, really depicted

1904
01:45:16,080 --> 01:45:18,120
Speaker 1: a boxing match because it's so hard to do because

1905
01:45:18,120 --> 01:45:20,400
Speaker 1: the actors can't really get punched in the face. But

1906
01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:23,840
Speaker 1: you felt like you're in the ring with him, and

1907
01:45:23,960 --> 01:45:27,120
Speaker 1: you felt like you're feeling all although it's stylizing it all,

1908
01:45:27,240 --> 01:45:30,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't look real at all. It feels real, like

1909
01:45:30,160 --> 01:45:32,599
Speaker 1: the feeling you get from those boxing scenes is real,

1910
01:45:33,200 --> 01:45:36,679
Speaker 1: but it doesn't look real, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, Yeah,

1911
01:45:36,840 --> 01:45:39,880
Speaker 1: And you know the last the last fight yeah with

1912
01:45:40,080 --> 01:45:44,400
Speaker 1: sugar Ay is like the blood is so over the

1913
01:45:44,439 --> 01:45:48,200
Speaker 1: top where you're watching the crowd react like oh my god,

1914
01:45:48,320 --> 01:45:50,400
Speaker 1: oh my god, and you're as all watch there doing

1915
01:45:50,439 --> 01:45:52,360
Speaker 1: the same thing. I think there's only like ten or

1916
01:45:52,400 --> 01:45:55,200
Speaker 1: twelve minutes of boxing in the movie, but some of

1917
01:45:55,280 --> 01:45:58,240
Speaker 1: those scenes are so powerful and you feel they're so

1918
01:45:58,520 --> 01:46:02,439
Speaker 1: strongly shot in turn of seeing somebody get hit. In

1919
01:46:02,520 --> 01:46:04,320
Speaker 1: the end, you feel like it is like a whole

1920
01:46:04,360 --> 01:46:07,000
Speaker 1: movie about boxing. When I was a kid, when I

1921
01:46:07,080 --> 01:46:09,240
Speaker 1: was a kid growing up in west Chester, and New

1922
01:46:09,320 --> 01:46:14,799
Speaker 1: York actually boxed as a kid, and Ja Clomada's cousin

1923
01:46:15,360 --> 01:46:18,840
Speaker 1: was my trainer. Is uh yeah, so his one of

1924
01:46:18,920 --> 01:46:21,800
Speaker 1: his cousins, who I think is famous for inventing the chip,

1925
01:46:21,880 --> 01:46:27,800
Speaker 1: which his his son was Tommy Lamata was my boxing coach.

1926
01:46:28,080 --> 01:46:30,720
Speaker 1: So that's why I knew Jake Lamada when I was

1927
01:46:30,840 --> 01:46:33,439
Speaker 1: like ten twelve years old. He's like, yeah, you know

1928
01:46:33,600 --> 01:46:37,320
Speaker 1: my cousin, Ja Clomata, And immediately like we all went

1929
01:46:37,400 --> 01:46:40,639
Speaker 1: home after taking training and like sat down and watched

1930
01:46:40,760 --> 01:46:44,640
Speaker 1: Raising Bowl and then like as kids were doing you know,

1931
01:46:45,160 --> 01:46:47,439
Speaker 1: which is like ten year olds probably shouldn't be watching

1932
01:46:47,479 --> 01:46:49,560
Speaker 1: this movie in the first place, but we were so

1933
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:53,479
Speaker 1: into it. In a way, I feel like after Raging Bull,

1934
01:46:54,000 --> 01:46:59,839
Speaker 1: every DeNiro role has like a little bit of Lamata

1935
01:47:00,000 --> 01:47:02,479
Speaker 1: in it, like it almost it almost seems like late,

1936
01:47:03,320 --> 01:47:06,439
Speaker 1: especially like the late end of DeNiro's career. Now there's

1937
01:47:06,479 --> 01:47:08,800
Speaker 1: a little bit of stuff that you see in Jake

1938
01:47:08,800 --> 01:47:11,160
Speaker 1: Clamata that you didn't see before he took that role.

1939
01:47:11,280 --> 01:47:13,559
Speaker 1: But now it's kind of like like he's doing Lamana

1940
01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:16,680
Speaker 1: and meet the parents, you know, and he's doing it

1941
01:47:16,800 --> 01:47:19,000
Speaker 1: in good till like he's doing it, Like I feel

1942
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:22,519
Speaker 1: like it's now his middle it's just like a lamata light.

1943
01:47:22,920 --> 01:47:26,040
Speaker 1: That's funny. I mean, for me, the thing about the movie,

1944
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:27,760
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many things about the movie, but

1945
01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:31,479
Speaker 1: just the performance, the DeNiro performance, I know what you're saying.

1946
01:47:31,520 --> 01:47:35,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I think that for somebody like DeNiro,

1947
01:47:36,360 --> 01:47:40,479
Speaker 1: his performances that they're so that we watched them over

1948
01:47:40,600 --> 01:47:43,800
Speaker 1: and over and and and you know, and we're mesmerizing.

1949
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:46,000
Speaker 1: You rewind them and you'll watch a scene over and

1950
01:47:46,040 --> 01:47:49,439
Speaker 1: your YouTube scene and and you'll you know, they're they're

1951
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:55,560
Speaker 1: so iconic, and there's just something so charismatic about what

1952
01:47:55,680 --> 01:48:00,160
Speaker 1: he does along with all the technical uh expertise, you know,

1953
01:48:00,240 --> 01:48:02,960
Speaker 1: as an actor, you know, I mean, he's just so good.

1954
01:48:03,080 --> 01:48:05,280
Speaker 1: He just has the you know, there's like for me,

1955
01:48:05,479 --> 01:48:08,240
Speaker 1: like when I articulate like actors, like every actor has

1956
01:48:08,360 --> 01:48:10,400
Speaker 1: different energy, you know what I mean, Like acting is

1957
01:48:10,439 --> 01:48:13,160
Speaker 1: like energy. Like there's the de Niro energy, there's the

1958
01:48:13,720 --> 01:48:16,719
Speaker 1: you know, Christopher Watkins energy, there's you know, good actors

1959
01:48:16,800 --> 01:48:20,240
Speaker 1: have energy. I have energy. You know, bad actors have energy. Everybody,

1960
01:48:20,280 --> 01:48:23,880
Speaker 1: every actor brings a part of themselves to the roles.

1961
01:48:24,280 --> 01:48:27,040
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, sometimes like I've had I've

1962
01:48:27,040 --> 01:48:29,200
Speaker 1: had conversations with people where they'll be like, well, he's

1963
01:48:29,240 --> 01:48:31,640
Speaker 1: just you know, he does the same thing, and you know,

1964
01:48:31,760 --> 01:48:33,760
Speaker 1: and and I mean that that's ridiculous because if you

1965
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:36,559
Speaker 1: put the body of work, I mean, he's been so diverse.

1966
01:48:36,680 --> 01:48:39,760
Speaker 1: But the thing about that film and that that that

1967
01:48:40,800 --> 01:48:45,360
Speaker 1: that acting, just his his acting in particulars that it

1968
01:48:45,560 --> 01:48:51,720
Speaker 1: was like craftsmanship, charisma and and sort of exposing of

1969
01:48:52,280 --> 01:48:55,400
Speaker 1: himself all in one thing. You know. It's like the

1970
01:48:55,560 --> 01:49:00,639
Speaker 1: weight gain. So the method acting of it all um drama,

1971
01:49:01,160 --> 01:49:04,120
Speaker 1: the the the the the you know, looking like a boxer,

1972
01:49:04,479 --> 01:49:06,519
Speaker 1: he he felt like a boxer. Then he feels like

1973
01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:09,439
Speaker 1: a fat fuck um the way they changed his face,

1974
01:49:09,640 --> 01:49:12,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it just was every single thing clicked and

1975
01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:16,640
Speaker 1: and every single thing clicked with Scorsese, every single thing

1976
01:49:16,720 --> 01:49:19,040
Speaker 1: clicked with the sound. You know, the sound of the

1977
01:49:19,120 --> 01:49:21,360
Speaker 1: movie is such a big part of it. Like if

1978
01:49:21,360 --> 01:49:23,439
Speaker 1: you watch the fight scenes, you know, like I was

1979
01:49:23,479 --> 01:49:25,920
Speaker 1: saying earlier about like you feel like you're in the ring,

1980
01:49:26,160 --> 01:49:28,599
Speaker 1: but like there's like all these rumblings and like even

1981
01:49:28,720 --> 01:49:30,920
Speaker 1: like when you know the scenes when he's you know,

1982
01:49:31,000 --> 01:49:34,920
Speaker 1: alone in the house with Um with Vicky, you'll hear

1983
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:37,040
Speaker 1: like you know when they're fighting, like you know, you'll

1984
01:49:37,120 --> 01:49:38,800
Speaker 1: hear like if you listen to the film, if you

1985
01:49:38,880 --> 01:49:41,200
Speaker 1: just listen to it, you know, like the the sound

1986
01:49:41,680 --> 01:49:44,519
Speaker 1: design is incredible, like you know, there's like animal sounds,

1987
01:49:44,600 --> 01:49:47,519
Speaker 1: and you know, the punches are all different, and you know,

1988
01:49:47,840 --> 01:49:50,479
Speaker 1: the crowd and the screaming and the flash bulbs are

1989
01:49:50,520 --> 01:49:52,840
Speaker 1: so prominent. I mean, just I think everything about that

1990
01:49:53,000 --> 01:49:55,920
Speaker 1: film just clicked. Like they were working on all cylinders.

1991
01:49:56,040 --> 01:49:58,760
Speaker 1: Everybody was working on all cylinders, and it was from

1992
01:49:59,080 --> 01:50:01,160
Speaker 1: the head down. And this was sort of a two

1993
01:50:01,200 --> 01:50:05,479
Speaker 1: headed uh monster, because I think Scorsese and DeNiro were

1994
01:50:05,600 --> 01:50:08,680
Speaker 1: really really they were young, they were locked in. I

1995
01:50:08,720 --> 01:50:12,760
Speaker 1: mean the movie. You know, it's thirty five years later.

1996
01:50:12,800 --> 01:50:15,160
Speaker 1: I'm doing a podcast about it. Everyone loves it, everyone

1997
01:50:15,200 --> 01:50:17,519
Speaker 1: talks about it. But when the movie came out, you know,

1998
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:20,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't well received. It wasn't like some blockbuster film.

1999
01:50:21,040 --> 01:50:23,120
Speaker 1: And as much as I love the movie, you know,

2000
01:50:23,240 --> 01:50:26,519
Speaker 1: whenever I go to sit down to watch Raging Bull,

2001
01:50:27,040 --> 01:50:29,040
Speaker 1: it's not like you're going to sit down to watch

2002
01:50:29,439 --> 01:50:33,120
Speaker 1: you know, Meet the Parents or or Vacation or any

2003
01:50:33,200 --> 01:50:35,960
Speaker 1: kind of comedy. It's a hard movie to watch. You know,

2004
01:50:36,160 --> 01:50:38,880
Speaker 1: even even after seeing it. I've probably seen it over

2005
01:50:38,920 --> 01:50:41,280
Speaker 1: a hundred times, you know, in pieces or in full.

2006
01:50:41,960 --> 01:50:44,760
Speaker 1: It's not an easy movie to absorb. It's it's disturbing,

2007
01:50:44,880 --> 01:50:49,000
Speaker 1: it's but technically just the camera work in the in

2008
01:50:49,080 --> 01:50:52,400
Speaker 1: the boxing scenes. I've I've tried to break them down

2009
01:50:52,520 --> 01:50:55,080
Speaker 1: for twenty years. I've watched it, and like you still see,

2010
01:50:55,200 --> 01:50:57,719
Speaker 1: like if you watch it, like the way the camera moves,

2011
01:50:58,160 --> 01:51:01,479
Speaker 1: it's poetry. It's perfection. And I just think that, you know,

2012
01:51:01,560 --> 01:51:05,080
Speaker 1: with Pesci was perfect, Cathy, Mority was Moriarity was perfect,

2013
01:51:05,240 --> 01:51:08,479
Speaker 1: Every stitch of clothing was perfect, every piece of music

2014
01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:12,120
Speaker 1: they used as perfect. It's just it's it's a perfect film.

2015
01:51:12,439 --> 01:51:14,200
Speaker 1: That doesn't make it an easy film, but it's a

2016
01:51:14,280 --> 01:51:17,920
Speaker 1: perfect film, um by people you know, working at the

2017
01:51:18,000 --> 01:51:21,280
Speaker 1: highest level, um, you know, at the top of their

2018
01:51:21,360 --> 01:51:23,880
Speaker 1: game and and still being hungry. You know, like not

2019
01:51:24,040 --> 01:51:25,519
Speaker 1: that they're not now, but I mean when you're young,

2020
01:51:25,640 --> 01:51:27,840
Speaker 1: you could. You know. It's just like, you know, those

2021
01:51:27,880 --> 01:51:30,920
Speaker 1: guys were young Titans, they were young lions and and

2022
01:51:31,040 --> 01:51:33,400
Speaker 1: and they were they were fucking hungry, and they were

2023
01:51:33,439 --> 01:51:36,240
Speaker 1: they were just you know it, you know, they just

2024
01:51:36,400 --> 01:51:39,320
Speaker 1: they made this movie and uh, you know, it's just

2025
01:51:39,479 --> 01:51:41,240
Speaker 1: something special. But I mean, if if you put out

2026
01:51:41,320 --> 01:51:43,720
Speaker 1: Raging Bull today, it would be you'd be lucky if

2027
01:51:43,760 --> 01:51:45,680
Speaker 1: it made it into a theater. You know. That's what

2028
01:51:45,960 --> 01:51:48,240
Speaker 1: I was gonna say. I don't think they could do

2029
01:51:48,280 --> 01:51:51,439
Speaker 1: it today. I mean, it's it's it's just they couldn't.

2030
01:51:51,439 --> 01:51:54,920
Speaker 1: I think there'd be too much PC bullshit, and there'll

2031
01:51:54,920 --> 01:51:57,160
Speaker 1: be so many different angles that people would be complaining about.

2032
01:51:57,520 --> 01:52:00,960
Speaker 1: I think, you know, it came out of time. Yeah,

2033
01:52:01,040 --> 01:52:03,240
Speaker 1: it came out at the perfect time. And you know,

2034
01:52:03,920 --> 01:52:05,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but like the

2035
01:52:05,320 --> 01:52:07,960
Speaker 1: film at the you know, when they did the best

2036
01:52:08,040 --> 01:52:11,680
Speaker 1: film of the eighties, Raging Bull won the best. But

2037
01:52:11,800 --> 01:52:14,040
Speaker 1: when the critics at the end of the decade, they

2038
01:52:14,160 --> 01:52:16,679
Speaker 1: chose Raging Bull as the best film of the eighties,

2039
01:52:17,200 --> 01:52:20,439
Speaker 1: but it lost to ordinary people for the Oscar. Same

2040
01:52:20,479 --> 01:52:23,560
Speaker 1: thing with um good Fellas, which is is not you know,

2041
01:52:23,640 --> 01:52:26,160
Speaker 1: I think good Fellas is a flashier film, not to

2042
01:52:26,240 --> 01:52:29,120
Speaker 1: say one's better than the other. The two different films.

2043
01:52:29,160 --> 01:52:32,160
Speaker 1: There two masterworks, you know, but it's I think good

2044
01:52:32,200 --> 01:52:34,720
Speaker 1: Fellows is a little bit easier to absorb. Even though

2045
01:52:35,000 --> 01:52:36,760
Speaker 1: good Fellas isn't a fucking you know, it's not a

2046
01:52:36,840 --> 01:52:38,240
Speaker 1: day in the park. You know, it's a it's a

2047
01:52:38,640 --> 01:52:41,080
Speaker 1: it's a tough film too. But you know, Goodfellas kind

2048
01:52:41,120 --> 01:52:44,160
Speaker 1: of makes Raging Bull look like, you know, an easy

2049
01:52:44,240 --> 01:52:47,519
Speaker 1: film to absorb. I mean, Raging Bull It it doesn't

2050
01:52:47,520 --> 01:52:49,240
Speaker 1: have the you know, good Fellaws has the pace, and

2051
01:52:49,360 --> 01:52:51,559
Speaker 1: it's it moves and it's quick, and it has voice

2052
01:52:51,600 --> 01:52:53,960
Speaker 1: over and it's you know, it's it's easier to absorb

2053
01:52:54,040 --> 01:52:56,880
Speaker 1: if if if, I mean it's not like again, it's

2054
01:52:56,920 --> 01:52:59,120
Speaker 1: not like you know, watching Goodfellas is like having an

2055
01:52:59,160 --> 01:53:02,760
Speaker 1: ice cream cone on Spring Day. But anyway, you know,

2056
01:53:02,920 --> 01:53:05,320
Speaker 1: so I I you know, I appreciate you guys, you know,

2057
01:53:05,400 --> 01:53:07,200
Speaker 1: talking to me about it. I'm a fan of what

2058
01:53:07,280 --> 01:53:09,200
Speaker 1: you guys are doing. And you know, in the new year,

2059
01:53:09,240 --> 01:53:11,240
Speaker 1: I would love to come on your show and we

2060
01:53:11,280 --> 01:53:13,920
Speaker 1: could we could talk about sports and we could start, uh,

2061
01:53:14,280 --> 01:53:16,400
Speaker 1: we could start with my guy Odell Beckham and and

2062
01:53:16,640 --> 01:53:18,479
Speaker 1: and what what what went on yesterday? Because I know

2063
01:53:18,520 --> 01:53:21,280
Speaker 1: you guys are passionate fans. Oh yeah, we we got

2064
01:53:21,360 --> 01:53:24,000
Speaker 1: We're about to actually do ours, Michael. We're gonna get

2065
01:53:24,000 --> 01:53:26,240
Speaker 1: into a good hour and a half discussion on what

2066
01:53:26,479 --> 01:53:30,760
Speaker 1: the funk happened yesterday? Hey, listen. I don't know what

2067
01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:33,280
Speaker 1: the funk happened, but I think that was That's gonna

2068
01:53:33,320 --> 01:53:35,200
Speaker 1: be a lesson, a lesson learned from him. I mean,

2069
01:53:35,280 --> 01:53:36,960
Speaker 1: I think, you know, there's so much going on. He's

2070
01:53:37,000 --> 01:53:39,200
Speaker 1: such a star and he's so great. I just hope,

2071
01:53:39,280 --> 01:53:41,160
Speaker 1: I just hope. At one point he turned to norm

2072
01:53:41,240 --> 01:53:44,280
Speaker 1: And and he was like, you never got me down. Down.

2073
01:53:45,680 --> 01:53:48,080
Speaker 1: That's good. That's good, that's good. That's right. You never

2074
01:53:48,160 --> 01:53:50,920
Speaker 1: got me down, Norm, You never got me down. Man.

2075
01:53:53,479 --> 01:53:57,439
Speaker 1: Danny a yellow on Raging Bull. Bobby was over the

2076
01:53:57,520 --> 01:54:00,200
Speaker 1: house with banging the drum slowly at the my when

2077
01:54:00,240 --> 01:54:03,880
Speaker 1: I lived in the project and someone gave me a paramount,

2078
01:54:04,439 --> 01:54:07,240
Speaker 1: they gave me a script and a book. Pete Savage

2079
01:54:07,320 --> 01:54:09,080
Speaker 1: was the man's name. He was a co writer of

2080
01:54:09,479 --> 01:54:13,040
Speaker 1: Raging Bull. And they grabbed me because they knew I

2081
01:54:13,080 --> 01:54:14,960
Speaker 1: had just done Bang the drum. Saw they didn't know

2082
01:54:15,080 --> 01:54:17,120
Speaker 1: me from Mattam. I get called up the paramount. I'm saying,

2083
01:54:17,160 --> 01:54:19,160
Speaker 1: holy sh it, they say they're doing the boxing film.

2084
01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:20,439
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to be in and I think

2085
01:54:20,479 --> 01:54:22,519
Speaker 1: they're asking me to do something. Am I going to

2086
01:54:22,600 --> 01:54:25,120
Speaker 1: play the fucking Raging Bull? You know? I was all excited,

2087
01:54:25,800 --> 01:54:28,040
Speaker 1: so naturally they were using me. I had no idea

2088
01:54:28,080 --> 01:54:30,679
Speaker 1: that I was being used. So I brought the book

2089
01:54:31,360 --> 01:54:33,600
Speaker 1: to my house because I knew Bobby was at the house.

2090
01:54:34,040 --> 01:54:35,400
Speaker 1: I said, Bobby, I don't know how to do this.

2091
01:54:35,520 --> 01:54:37,880
Speaker 1: I really don't know how to do this. People asked

2092
01:54:37,920 --> 01:54:39,600
Speaker 1: me to present this to you because they knew we

2093
01:54:39,640 --> 01:54:42,720
Speaker 1: were close. I'll apologize beforehand for doing this. I don't

2094
01:54:42,720 --> 01:54:45,000
Speaker 1: know if you're gonna be upset or anything, but I

2095
01:54:45,080 --> 01:54:46,680
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do. But I didn't want you

2096
01:54:46,760 --> 01:54:48,880
Speaker 1: to lose out. And I said to him, I said,

2097
01:54:49,320 --> 01:54:51,920
Speaker 1: the reason I'm giving you this book if Rocky Massy,

2098
01:54:52,960 --> 01:54:56,960
Speaker 1: if Rocky Graziano's movie was being done somebody up there

2099
01:54:57,080 --> 01:54:59,400
Speaker 1: likes me. If it was being done today, they would

2100
01:54:59,400 --> 01:55:01,480
Speaker 1: ask you to do it, Robert, you would be perfect

2101
01:55:01,520 --> 01:55:04,360
Speaker 1: and you would kill This is tantamount to what that

2102
01:55:04,560 --> 01:55:07,520
Speaker 1: book was. He said, box. I don't box. I said, well,

2103
01:55:08,400 --> 01:55:11,160
Speaker 1: it's more of a character study than it is a

2104
01:55:11,240 --> 01:55:13,640
Speaker 1: boxing It's a boxing film, yes, but it's a caress

2105
01:55:14,000 --> 01:55:17,920
Speaker 1: character study. He took the book, all right, and he

2106
01:55:18,200 --> 01:55:21,080
Speaker 1: takes it to Italy with him because he's going to

2107
01:55:21,360 --> 01:55:24,280
Speaker 1: Italy to the turn of the century. Italians. He wants

2108
01:55:24,280 --> 01:55:26,600
Speaker 1: to talk to because he's about to do Godfather too,

2109
01:55:27,360 --> 01:55:30,520
Speaker 1: So he goes over there. Now keep in mind, Paramount,

2110
01:55:30,560 --> 01:55:34,600
Speaker 1: we're calling me every day, every day, inviting me, buying

2111
01:55:34,680 --> 01:55:40,000
Speaker 1: me lunch and everything. Suddenly Bobby's in Italy. I can't

2112
01:55:40,000 --> 01:55:42,400
Speaker 1: get into that fucking office. If I had a key,

2113
01:55:43,120 --> 01:55:45,760
Speaker 1: they didn't answer the phone. I'm talking about Paramounts. I

2114
01:55:45,880 --> 01:55:49,720
Speaker 1: knew something went down, And what went down was Bobby

2115
01:55:49,920 --> 01:55:53,920
Speaker 1: accepted that he was working with De Laurentis at the time.

2116
01:55:54,400 --> 01:55:57,040
Speaker 1: Now Bobby comes back, they don't do it with Delrentis.

2117
01:55:57,800 --> 01:55:59,560
Speaker 1: A couple of years go by and they do it

2118
01:55:59,680 --> 01:56:03,400
Speaker 1: with my He's going to Stacy and Winkler, Winkler and

2119
01:56:03,840 --> 01:56:10,160
Speaker 1: any other kid, and they decided to do it all right.

2120
01:56:10,200 --> 01:56:14,840
Speaker 1: This is the Iron Rapport podcast. Um calling up the

2121
01:56:14,960 --> 01:56:19,760
Speaker 1: Pronx Bull, the Raging Bull, ladies and gentlemen. J Clamata

2122
01:56:21,400 --> 01:56:26,560
Speaker 1: all right's ringing? Hi you there, Denise, How you doing?

2123
01:56:26,600 --> 01:56:30,360
Speaker 1: It's Michael Rappaport. Hi, Michael, how are you? I'm good?

2124
01:56:30,440 --> 01:56:33,840
Speaker 1: I'm good. How are you doing. I'm okay. I'm in

2125
01:56:33,920 --> 01:56:37,960
Speaker 1: the lobby. I'm gonna go on up and just hold

2126
01:56:38,000 --> 01:56:40,400
Speaker 1: on to stay on upon with me and we'll get

2127
01:56:40,520 --> 01:56:51,000
Speaker 1: him right now. Okay, yeah, oh great. Jock Michael Rapp,

2128
01:56:51,800 --> 01:56:55,480
Speaker 1: the actor on the phone, he's trying to due to

2129
01:56:55,560 --> 01:56:59,080
Speaker 1: the last week or so, and um, he's said to

2130
01:56:59,120 --> 01:57:02,680
Speaker 1: ask you this questions without Raging Bull because it's the

2131
01:57:02,760 --> 01:57:07,440
Speaker 1: anniversary is it? Whatversary? It's the thirty thirty fifth anniversary

2132
01:57:07,480 --> 01:57:12,920
Speaker 1: of the movie. Yeah, anniversary of Racing Buja. So I'm

2133
01:57:13,680 --> 01:57:15,840
Speaker 1: an interview with you. Can you hear? Can I speak

2134
01:57:15,880 --> 01:57:23,240
Speaker 1: to him now? Jake? How you doing, Champ? How you feeling, Champs?

2135
01:57:25,320 --> 01:57:27,920
Speaker 1: He said, how are you doing? Not? How are you feeling?

2136
01:57:31,320 --> 01:57:35,040
Speaker 1: Thank you? Ha ha ha. Listen, I just wanted to

2137
01:57:35,120 --> 01:57:37,240
Speaker 1: tell you, first of all, I'm a humongous fan of

2138
01:57:37,360 --> 01:57:41,480
Speaker 1: your career when you were fighting. I first heard about

2139
01:57:41,560 --> 01:57:44,280
Speaker 1: you when my father, he actually was at the garden

2140
01:57:44,360 --> 01:57:51,560
Speaker 1: when you fought Robertson and Madison Square Garden. Yeah, it's

2141
01:57:51,600 --> 01:57:54,520
Speaker 1: a really long time ago. Well you've had, you've had,

2142
01:57:54,720 --> 01:58:01,520
Speaker 1: You've had a really long, great, interesting, crazy life avenue. Yeah,

2143
01:58:01,600 --> 01:58:05,840
Speaker 1: I guess so. So. So I'm doing this this sort

2144
01:58:05,880 --> 01:58:11,400
Speaker 1: of review celebration of the movie Raging Bull. The movie

2145
01:58:11,760 --> 01:58:15,640
Speaker 1: I love the movie. Um. The reason why I love

2146
01:58:15,720 --> 01:58:20,400
Speaker 1: the movie great, that was greater than that. Yeah, he

2147
01:58:20,520 --> 01:58:24,320
Speaker 1: was fantastic, really good. Yeah he's he's the best. Don't

2148
01:58:24,360 --> 01:58:31,360
Speaker 1: you think I think the best? Yeah? I agree, Jake.

2149
01:58:31,440 --> 01:58:39,480
Speaker 1: Do you follow boxing at all anymore? Really found s

2150
01:58:40,320 --> 01:58:43,480
Speaker 1: a while TV. I just want to let you know

2151
01:58:43,560 --> 01:58:47,040
Speaker 1: I appreciate you taking the time, and uh, I'm glad

2152
01:58:47,080 --> 01:58:50,320
Speaker 1: you're doing good. I can't believe you're ninety four. And

2153
01:58:50,360 --> 01:58:52,800
Speaker 1: I hope you live. You hope you live another fifteen

2154
01:58:53,640 --> 01:59:02,120
Speaker 1: three dandy three We alright, alright, I won't make you

2155
01:59:02,200 --> 01:59:04,360
Speaker 1: a year older. Sorry, Sorry, I don't want no problems

2156
01:59:04,400 --> 01:59:07,720
Speaker 1: with you, Jake. And I wish you good holiday, alright, Jake.

2157
01:59:07,760 --> 01:59:12,320
Speaker 1: I wish you could merry Christmass, Happy New Yeah, God

2158
01:59:12,880 --> 01:59:16,440
Speaker 1: you have a good Christians. Thank you you too. Jacob