WEBVTT - Preet Bharara Explains It All 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:08.600 Hey Brian, Hi Katie. Well, it was great to be 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:12.040 with you in Los Angeles last week. It was so 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:15.160 fun for me to see Eliza, who's gotten so big 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:18.840 and really seems to like cheese. Well, we keep feeding 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:22.439 her so she keeps growing, and she she loved, she loved, 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:25.640 meaning Katie. She's heard a lot about you. She told 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.080 me afterwards that you're not nearly as bad as I said, 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:30.840 So I think you got a new thing. Thankful lot, Brian. 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.839 I have seen her since she was an itty bitty baby, 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:37.200 and it's just amazing she's how old now, Brian, she's 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:39.279 almost two, and you should come to l A more 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:43.800 often and hang out girls chat with She was adorable 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:46.760 and of course Brian has a wonderful wife, Claire, and 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:49.760 I always love seeing Claire as well. So we also 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:52.519 did something we don't normally do, and that is we 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:55.280 had a photo shoot. We were ready for our close 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:58.760 ups because we're taking some new pictures for the podcast. 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:01.440 We want a fresh and up the look and of 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:06.280 course includes your beautiful mug and more of the photos. So, um, 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:08.160 I don't know. I think you have a future male 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.200 modeling Brian. Oh yeah, and if you believe that I've 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:15.080 got a Trump University dude you to give you anyway. Uh, 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:18.600 I handed the photographer a twenty for some air brushing, 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:22.000 so hopefully that works. Yeah. Sure. Anyway, it was a 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.280 lot of fun and it was fun to see you, 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:26.199 and as I said, it was great fun to see 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:29.440 Eliza and Claire. Meanwhile, I'm back in New York. I'm 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:31.800 not traveling for an entire month. I'm not going to 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:35.360 get on an airplane because my life has been insane 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:38.520 with a lot of travel the beginning of the summer. 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:42.120 So now I'm just keeping my feet firmly planted on 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:45.160 the ground and I'm here in our New York studio. Brian, 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:48.400 you're still in l A. And we just had a conversation, 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.120 a really interesting one with former U S attorney Pre Barrara. 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:58.000 He was a wonderful source of information and insight about 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.080 everything that's going on with the Trump investigation. I think 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.720 it's very easy in the day to day of the 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.880 coverage to lose perspective um and to really understand what's 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:11.040 going on, and so I think he was terrific at 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:15.240 stepping back and giving us, in a sort of Joe Friday, 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:18.520 just the facts ma'am style, and maybe I'm dating myself 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:23.760 with that reference, a sense of what matters here, what 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:28.080 the stakes are, and really to help us understand the 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:32.560 Trump investigation and how it's going and really Trump investigations, 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:37.480 because he talked about the different jurisdictions or auspices under 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:40.600 which these investigations are taking. Is that that the right 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.800 legal way to say, Brian. With the Russian investigation being conducted, 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:48.880 of course by Robert Muller, and the investigation into Michael 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:53.080 Cohen's activities being investigated by the U. S. Attorney for 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:56.160 the Southern District of New York, which is Prett's old office, 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.160 and folks, if you're unfamiliar, being a U. S. Attorney 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:04.160 is essentially the top federal prosecutor in a particular location, 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.000 and the Southern District of New York is probably the 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:10.000 most important office in the country because it covers Manhattan, 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:14.440 so Wall Street is under its jurisdiction. A lot of 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:19.000 New York political corruption cases are under its jurisdiction, and 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:23.440 very relevant here, uh, the home and business of the 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.680 President of the United States are under its jurisdiction. By 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.480 the way, everyone, this is a crossover show, and that 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:34.280 means our conversation will be broadcast on pres terrific podcast 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.680 try to say that ten times fast, called Stay Tuned 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:41.520 with pret and it will be broadcasts on our terrific 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.600 podcast called Katie Curic. And we're trying to come up 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.960 with a new name, so we'll take any suggestions. Everyone, 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:52.200 just keep Brian's name out of it. Just I'm totally kidding. 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.800 But anyway, we're hoping that people who are listening to 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:59.640 Preach show may find ours worth downloading or subscribing to. 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.640 And conversely, we're hoping that you all will check out 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:07.520 Stay Tuned with pret because he's absolutely terrific and has 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:11.760 a lot of incredibly smart insights to share. And if 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:15.040 you're a longtime listener of our show, tell your friends, 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:18.160 tell your family, tell your mail carrier, tell your hairdresser. 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:23.320 We're not proud, just tell everyone please. Meanwhile, we had 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.600 a great conversation, as Brian said, with Prett, who gave 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:30.640 us really some much needed perspective, and we began by 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:35.599 talking to him about his short lived friendship with Donald 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:40.880 Trump and the events leading up to his vacating the premises. 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:47.479 A lot of people outside New York know you as 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.440 the U S attorney in Manhattan who was fired by 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:53.400 Donald Trump. And you've told the story a million times, 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:57.960 I'm sure, but can you tell our listeners as well 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:00.080 as some people who haven't heard the first episode of 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:05.320 your show, what happened and why it got so much attention? Um? Well, 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:07.520 thanks again for having me. It's very exciting to be 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:11.560 here on Stay Tuned with Katie and Brian. You're looking 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:14.360 for a new name, we are. I got some very 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:19.279 twitter suggestions. I think I think you like Stay Tuned. 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:21.120 My lawyers will not go after you if you if 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.360 you name it Stay Tuned with Katie and Brunn. Oh wait, pretty, 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.279 did you not get the memo we're actually replacing you 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:31.440 on your show? This is very awkward. Actually, I thought 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:34.360 he had been told Katie like the worst political junkie ever. 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:37.640 If you're if you're starting off the interview with your 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:39.680 fired because you know that happened to me last year, 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:42.640 which was I think the question. We've come full circles, 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:45.320 see how I feel, abuster. Look, So, so, I was 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:47.720 the U S Attorney for a number of years. It 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:50.560 was appointed by President Obama, confirmed by the Senate, and 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.880 then it ordinarily happens when a new president comes in 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.719 particularly one of the other party. All the US attorneys, 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.640 all the ambassadors, they all know that the new president 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.599 and the administration deserves its own people. And that's totally normal. 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:03.719 Happens every time, and I expected that to be true 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.800 for me also in November when when Donald Trump won 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.200 and in fact I had no job security, uh that 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.280 I could have expected even if Hillary Clinton had one, 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.520 because it's a new president. But about eight days after 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:19.120 the election, the President elect Trump called the Senator for 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:22.400 whom I used to work, Chuck Schumer, and said, among 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:24.440 other things, do you think pre would stay in his 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:27.360 job and stay on for another term? And claimed to 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:28.800 be a big fan of mine, said I was doing 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:30.960 a great job. I thought about it. I had expected 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.440 to go do other things. I've been in public service 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.080 for over seventeen years at that point, so I thought 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:39.039 about it. And the best job I've ever had that 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.640 I will ever have. It's an independent job. We did, 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.479 you know the job a politically, we don't think about 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:47.039 someone being a Democrat and a Republican. We just bring 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.760 our cases independently, which is the reputation of the office. 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:53.000 And so then I was asked to meet with the 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.960 President elect before the formal offer, I guess would happen. 0:06:56.360 --> 0:07:00.800 So I went to Trump Tower November. His desk with 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:04.400 all the magazines piled up, there's a lot of Trump paraphernalia. Well, 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.440 every magazine cover that he's been on the cover of 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:12.560 is on his desk, and they're probably six deep. Was 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:14.360 it still the case? I saw that, But I also 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.880 saw in the hallway leading to his office there's all 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:20.080 sorts of Trump paraphernalia, the pictures and photographs and you know, 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.640 knickknacks and all sorts of things. But before I even 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:24.760 got up there in the lobby, remember at the time 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.520 during transition, there were all sorts of reporters hanging out 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.200 sort of penned in behind the velvet rope um, you know, 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:34.600 seeing who was coming and going, and so you know, 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:37.080 people recognize me when I when I went by, and 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:39.200 some reporter while I was waiting for the elevator to come, 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:41.680 this he held out, you know, Mr Brara, are you 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:47.560 here to serve a subpoena? I wasn't at that moment um, 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:49.080 so I know the older takes a long time. It's 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.640 a goal plate elevator. You go upstairs. The president was running. 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.040 President elect was running a little bit late, so I 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:58.440 shot the breeze with Jared Kushner and Steve Bannon, who 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:00.880 was wearing only one shirt at the time. Uh in 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.080 his office, waited for the President elect to come in. 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:06.880 The president was very uh, you know, lovely. We talked 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:10.080 about the office. Nothing inappropriate was said. He said I 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:11.280 was doing a great job, he said, and I'm sure 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:13.280 you're getting a lot offers to go into private practice. 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.040 I hope you would consider staying, and I said I would. 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:20.200 The only odd thing that happened in the meeting was 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.080 he pushed, you know, a yellow pad of post it's 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.440 towards me and asked me for my phone number, my 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:28.960 phone numbers. So it was odd that the President elect 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:30.440 of the United States of America was asking me from 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:34.280 my digits, and presumably they already had them somewhere, because 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:35.680 that's how I came to be at the meeting in 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:38.320 the first place. So I didn't really understand, although Jared 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:40.679 and Steve didn't seem to think it was out at all, 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:43.280 that you know, that the next leader of the free 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:45.720 world was asking someone first phone numbers, didn't think anything 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:48.280 of it. Um I was asked to call Jeff Sessions, 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:51.360 the incoming Attorney general, from the elevator bank outside. Everyone 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:52.960 said they were excited to work with me, and so 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:57.120 that was nice. Jeff Sessions. I did from the elevator 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.080 bank outside the elevator bank on the I think the 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:04.160 floor tower. They wanted to make sure that, you know, 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:07.520 they had checked the box. You know, he's going to 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:09.240 be the Attorney general. I'm gonna be the US attorney 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.280 who puatively works for the Attorney General. I just wanted 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:13.480 to make sure that he was looped in. And it 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.839 wasn't just the you know, the president and his staff 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:17.800 deciding on their own. It was a sort of a 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:20.600 consultation with the cabinet official. Who's the most relevant one 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.559 for my purposes and also the right thing to do. 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.560 So he said, yeah, nothing if not good for him, 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:30.720 Uh suggestions. Who I knew a little bit when I 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.040 used to work for Senator Schumer. He was the ranking 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:34.679 member on the subcommittee for which I worked, so I 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:36.760 knew him a little bit. He said, looking forward to 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.000 working with you. Then I went downstairs and I had 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.040 I had asked President elect Trump if they were going 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.880 to be making an announcement, and he said, well, was 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:46.800 there press when you came in, I said, yes, there was. 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:48.720 Well did they recognize you? And I said yes they did. 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:50.439 I didn't tell them the subpoena things I thought he 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.120 might appreciate. How funny would that be? Now it's a 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:56.959 little funnier and more relevant now. But um, he said, 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:58.480 why don't you go back out and just tell the 0:09:58.480 --> 0:09:59.800 press that I've asked you to stay? I think you're 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:01.560 pick and I've asked you to stay. And so I did. 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:05.600 And that was the last meeting I had with the 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:09.120 president elect. But then, Um, as I've said publicly before, 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:11.400 he would call me from time to time, which is 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:15.400 an odd thing for a sitting president elect to be calling, 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.040 even though we had no prior relationship. Um. And it 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:21.440 wasn't you know, a matter of business with the Justice Department. 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:23.120 He called me in December. Then he called me again 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.520 two days before the inauguration. What did he call you about? 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:31.199 Seemingly just to chat and make nice. It was just 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.240 small talk, and it seemed odd to me at the time. 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:35.640 Now we know he does that from time to time. 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:40.199 He cultivates people. We know from Jim Comey's testimony that 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.240 from time to time the president would call him. Um, 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:44.920 He never asked me to do anything inappropriate and never 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:47.080 has asked me to do anything untoward. But it's all 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:51.320 odd for someone who has, you know, about to have 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.120 the biggest job in the world to have time to call, 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:58.040 you know, the local U. S attorney in Manhattan, who 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:02.319 I will note, has technical jurisdiction over, among other things, 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:07.160 that person's businesses, that person's residence, that person's associates. Were 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:12.400 you conducting any investigations at the time into anything Trump related. 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:14.960 I'm not gonna answer that broad question, but i will 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:18.360 say that at the time, publicly, there were calls from 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.360 my office to look at all sorts of things, including 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.760 the monuments clause that people have heard things about. So 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.000 fast forward to the time. So when I got those 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.920 calls from the President elect, I let the head of 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:32.319 transition know, and I made sure that people in my 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.600 staff knew, and we decided it was okay to return 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:36.920 the calls because he was not yet the president of 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.400 the United States and there was no there was no 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.000 actual Attorney general at the time. He didn't say anything 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:43.680 that he was not supposed to say, but it was 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:45.760 just it was just a weird Well, I'm just curious 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:50.240 when you say small talk like that mean, do you 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.760 play golf? I mean? What was that? When he called 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:57.119 me before the inauguration a day or two before the inauguration, 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.480 probably the biggest day of his life in some way, like, 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:02.040 don't you have a speech to write? I asked him 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:04.120 about this speech? I said, I said, sir, how's the 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.560 speech coming? And he said, which you may find interesting, 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:11.560 it's going really well. I'm writing it all myself, and 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:15.640 it's about it's about hope, neither of which things I 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:21.520 believe to be true. Carnage. Maybe maybe the Wordsmith's got 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:23.800 to him between like the Wednesday and the Friday. I 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:25.920 think Steve Bannon got to him. He may he may have. 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:28.120 He asked me if I was doing all right. He 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:32.880 told me some stories about He told me how lots 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:34.760 of people are coming to see him. He was very 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:39.040 impressed that, you know, governors all around the country had 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:44.200 their hands out and wanted government handouts. It was basically 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.040 like he was trying to be your buddy. Am I right? Yeah? 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:50.480 My My view is now based on other things that happened, 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.600 on calls he made to Jim Comey, and the way 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.400 he conducts himself and the way he sort of violence, 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.400 the protocols and norms of the Justice Department Independent Investigation 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:02.400 that in the way he conducted his business previously, that 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:07.440 he doesn't see walls between law enforcement and politics, and 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.840 that it's good for him to cultivate a relationship and 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.960 be buddies with people if at such time you want 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.560 a favor or and again there's this speculation on my part, 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:19.679 but it's quite educated speculation. If it's sometime you need 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.080 someone to do you a favor, or to lay off somebody, 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.880 or to show loyalty, it's better to have had a 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:29.559 friendly relationship with that person. We'll never know, because a 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.640 couple of months into the presidency, Donald Trump called me again. 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:36.199 Now he's a sitting president, and now it seems highly 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.640 inappropriate that it wasn't coming through the channel of the 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.440 Attorney General or the deputy Attorney General. There's no warning 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:44.600 about it. I didn't know what the call was about. Um. 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:48.480 There are protocols that are very sort of serious that 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.120 the White House has put out because of prior scandals, 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.160 that make it clear that nobody is supposed to talk 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:57.720 to a law enforcement official at a certain level about 0:13:57.720 --> 0:13:59.480 an enforcement Actionally, I didn't know if he was gonna 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.240 be calling me about enforcement action. But I thought it 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.880 was odd, uh, And I kept thinking about and I 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.120 called my deputy into discuss whether or not I should 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:10.839 return the coin that seems bizarre to people. Your boss 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.040 calls you, you call him back. You know, the president 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.080 really isn't your boss. If you were a local United 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.679 States attorney, you serve the people, You serve your oath, 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:21.560 you serve the Constitution. In some measures, you serve the 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:23.640 Attorney General. But we in the in the what we 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.440 have called over time, the Sovereign District of New York, 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:28.560 sometimes don't even think we serve of the Attorney General. 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:30.080 And I didn't know what the nature of the call 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:31.520 was going to be. And one of the things we 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:35.000 thought about was, well, how's this going to work if 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:39.920 he says something inappropriate and cross some line, which was possible, 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.280 and now we know, you know, after the fact, that 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.960 he's done things like that. I believe, who's gonna believe 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:46.600 my side of the throat? We actually contemplated, and this 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:50.280 is interesting in later we had a discussion about whether 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.600 or not we should tape the president of the United States. 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.880 We decided against that because we, unlike Michael Cohen, his 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.680 own lawyer. I thought it was kind of uncool to 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.000 take the president of the United States. Then we thought 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:03.560 about having a witness to the call. But it just 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.080 shows you, even early on, before a lot of the 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.720 new information has come out, that there were lots and 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:12.640 lots of people, including the president's own lawyer, who believed 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.880 that when you have a conversation with Donald Trump, you 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.640 want to have proof of what the conversation was because 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:20.640 there might be a dispute about the content of it later. 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.320 And the other thing I kept thinking about was something 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:24.880 that Donald Trump said over and over and over again 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:29.600 during the campaign. He kept casting aspersions on Loretta Lynch 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.960 for having that now famous meeting at the tarmac with 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.120 former President Bill Clinton, whose wife Hilly Clinton, was under investigation. 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.720 And that was just a nice chit chat, the participants claim. 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:42.240 And I believe that to be true because I trust 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.320 Luretta Lynch. I think she's an honorable person who wouldn't 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.760 violate her oath. But Donald Trump himself got to say, 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:49.280 over and over and over again, what do you think 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:50.840 they were talking about. I'm sure they were talking about 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.360 the case. And I'm thinking to myself, even if the 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.800 president of United States sought to have an innocent conversation 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:58.280 with me, which I don't know how he has time 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:00.000 to have a conversation with me given everything else going 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.680 on in the world. Who's going to believe that. If 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:06.760 later it looks like we chose not to investigate something, 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:09.120 or we were investigating something and chose not to bring 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:11.760 a charge against an associate, it has all the makings 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.800 of an accusation that we had some side deal. I 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:18.520 went to Trump Tower, I kissed the ring uh. He 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:20.080 he asked me to stay. I agreed to stay. There 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:24.120 was some deal of of friendship or loyalty, and no 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.000 good could come of returning the call. So I called 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.040 actually Jeff Sessions, chiefest staff, and said I got this 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.400 phone call, and he agreed with me that I shouldn't 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.920 return the call. Knowing that, you know, knowing what we 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.840 know about the President's personality, he would be what's the 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.920 technical term, piste off. So I called the secretary at 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:44.480 the White House back on March nine, two thou and 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:48.200 seventeen as that I consulted with the Justice Department for 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.080 a variety of reasons. I don't think it's appropriate for 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:54.520 me to have a conversation directly with the President, no offense, 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.760 um and and twenty hours later I was asking my resignation. Now, 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.200 I cannot prove that those things are connected, and everyone 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:04.119 else who was a holdover was also asked to resign. 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.560 But it seems odd to me that those things would 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.159 be so closely connected in time unless they were at 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.840 least a little bit related. So pretty you won't answer 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.720 the question about whether there was any Trump related investigation. 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:17.800 You're gonna ask me something anyway, aren't you. Well, I'm 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:19.719 gonna ask you saying a little bit connected to that, 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:23.359 which is is there any evidence of Trump similarly reaching 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.840 out to any other U. S. Attorney around the country. No, 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:30.200 there's not. I mean I presumably, uh, hypothetically it could 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.199 have happened. And the other thing to be aware of 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.680 he then the president. My understanding is from the reporting 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:41.840 personally interviewed certain um, you know, appointments to U. S. Attorney, 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:44.160 including the one in New York, the one in Washington, 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.760 D C. And I think one in Florida, all who incidentally, 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:51.720 out of the nineties, three offices have technical jurisdiction over 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.840 the person and property of the President and his associates. 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.560 So you think he would have learned from that interaction, 0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:59.440 and it seems like he didn't. Again, which is not 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:01.800 to say that any one did anything wrong or inappropriate, 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.040 but there is there is a you know, definitely an 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.199 m O on the part of this president to develop 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.800 relationships with people, whether they're in law enforcement or otherwise, 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.760 when the norm has always been different. And and have 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.320 you run into anybody since have you been able to 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:23.040 ascertain if in fact those things might have been connected 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:27.120 that you weren't going to play ball? And so I've 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:30.159 not I've not made any accusation along those lines, but 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:31.920 I've lived long enough to know you have to wait 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:33.560 and see what the historical record is. And then you know, 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:37.480 when when I was asked to resign, I didn't. And 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.800 initially I wasn't trying to be a prima donna. I 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.840 just was confused because I was the only person from 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:46.399 the prior administration who had had a personal meeting with 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.960 the president, shook his hand and was asked to stay. So, 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.000 you know, given the level of incompetence that this administration 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:53.720 has often shown, I think that's not even not even 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:57.040 a partisan point, It's just a fact. When they rolled 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:58.600 out the travel band, They rolled out all sorts of 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:01.119 other things. Maybe it didn't occur to them. Well, some 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.320 people stand in a different position. So I was just 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.919 trying to get the answer. How did they let you 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:10.119 know that you're the acting deputy general? Danna bent A 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:12.399 called me a two thirty on on the afternoon of 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.639 March tenth, it was of Friday, and asked me to 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:17.560 my letter of resonation. I said to him again, I 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:20.480 wasn't trying to be difficult because I served at the 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:22.960 pleasure of the president. Are you sure it applies to me? 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.800 Because you know I had that thing at the Trump Tower. 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:30.239 Bannon was there. President he asked me to stay. So 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.480 this is obviously didn't apply to everyone, because two of 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.600 the sitting US attorneys at the time, one was Rod Rosenstein, 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.760 obviously he wasn't being asked to resign, didn't want him 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.560 to go, and the others Danna bent To himself. Ah, 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:47.000 So it was unclear to me if they meant for 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.359 me to be asked to let go, to be like 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:51.720 O or not. And then again, because I lived a 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:54.760 long time, I thought it just needed to be clear 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:57.560 that this was the wish of the president. If it was, 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.480 and it took twenty four hours to learn that. You know, 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.280 I walked out into into the open air as a 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:06.080 free civilian man, but I didn't want it to be 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.400 you know, suggested if in fact there was some nefarious 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:10.840 thing going on. I'm not saying their watch, but if 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:13.480 in fact there was something nefarious going on, and people 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:16.000 are trying to avoid an investigation of some sort, that 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:17.560 it should just be clear that this was the wish 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.960 of the president and not some functionary who was in 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.879 an acting capacity at the Justice Department. Why was that 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:27.320 important because so later on if you have to find 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:30.040