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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuffed to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Stuffed to Blow Your Mind, Listener Mail.

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Speaker 2: My name is Robert Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick and Stuffed be the mail

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Speaker 3: sack today. We're going to be doing our traditional post-Halloween

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Speaker 3: Listener Mail roundup. We often call this the Halloween hangover.

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Speaker 3: But we also have a lot of messages from before

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Speaker 3: and after the Halloween run. So I think the plan

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Speaker 3: right now is that we're going to do spooky October

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Speaker 3: stuff in today's episode, and then we will record another

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Speaker 3: mailbag episode pretty soon, sometime in the next couple of weeks,

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Speaker 3: to catch up on all the other great stuff that

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Speaker 3: y'all have sent in. And on that note, if you

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Speaker 3: have never written into the show before, it's always a

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Speaker 3: great time to do it for the first time. You

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Speaker 3: can reach us at contact at Stuff to blow your

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Speaker 3: mind dot com. Whatever you want to send is welcome,

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Speaker 3: especially if you have something interesting to add to a

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Speaker 3: topic we've talked about on the show recently, something from

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Speaker 3: your own expertise, from your research or personal experience. But

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Speaker 3: also whatever, you know, it's all good. Silly, purely social

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Speaker 3: messages are welcome, too. If you want to let us

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Speaker 3: know where you listen from, how you found out about

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Speaker 3: the show, that kind of thing is good. We can't

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Speaker 3: promise we'll have room to feature every message that you

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Speaker 3: send on the show, but we do read everything that

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Speaker 3: comes in, and we truly always appreciate it when people

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Speaker 3: take the time to get in touch. It means a lot.

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Speaker 3: So contact at StuffToBlowYourMind.com.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, other than that, I'll just go ahead and mention,

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Speaker 2: we were just chatting about this before we came online,

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Speaker 2: but we have a small but active Discord group. If

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Speaker 2: you would like to join our Discord server... just contact

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Speaker 2: us at that email address and we'll send you the

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Speaker 2: invite link. That way we intentionally keep it kind of small.

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Speaker 2: You have to actually write in to get the link

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Speaker 2: from us. But we like it that way. It stays

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Speaker 2: a little more organic. But anyone is welcome to join

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Speaker 2: as long as you email us and ask for the link.

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Speaker 3: I don't really know Discord, but if you make the

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Speaker 3: link public, does that mean you just get a bunch

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Speaker 3: of bots?

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Speaker 2: I have no idea. Maybe. Maybe. This is the way

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Speaker 2: we started doing it, and we've just kind of kept

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Speaker 2: doing it, and I'm just afraid that it would be

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Speaker 2: different if we did it another way. And maybe it

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Speaker 2: wouldn't be. But yeah, just email us, ask for the link.

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Speaker 2: And if you ask for the link and you don't

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Speaker 2: get it, that means I've forgotten to send it to you,

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Speaker 2: and feel free to poke me again, and I will

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Speaker 2: eventually get it to you.

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Speaker 3: Okay, do you want to kick things off with some

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Speaker 3: messages about our Halloween series on the scarecrow?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this was early in our October offerings, and

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Speaker 2: we received a lot of good field reports on this one.

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Speaker 3: Totally. This message comes from Jamie, subject anthropomorphic disgraceful things.

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Speaker 3: Dear Robert and Joe, I've been very glad to hear

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Speaker 3: you starting your annual engagement with the Unseelie, even a

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Speaker 3: wee bit early this year. Your first episode put me

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Speaker 3: in mind of some scarecrow-adjacent anthropomorphic horrors, including some interesting

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Speaker 3: interpretations of the verses from the Hebrew Bible that you mentioned.

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Speaker 3: The first thing is a story by T.E.D. Klein, an

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Speaker 3: author you may be familiar with, called Nadelman's God. The

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Speaker 3: story itself is a bit complicated, albeit filled with the

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Speaker 3: mounting sense of uncanny dread that is Klein's trademark. The

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Speaker 3: horror at the heart of the story is a kind

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Speaker 3: of scarecrow, a dark God made by an obsessive fan.

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Speaker 3: Klein describes the entity as quote, what appeared to be

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Speaker 3: a mass of rotting garbage piled up in a roughly

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Speaker 3: manlike shape, like those false aircraft images that New Guineans

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Speaker 3: built out of underbrush to attract passing planes. So it's

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Speaker 3: a reference to like cargo cult creations. Jamie goes on.

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Speaker 3: It strikes me that both the biblical passages you mentioned

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Speaker 3: and may actually refer to pre-Yahwistic cult practices that the

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Speaker 3: authors of the Old Testament were trying to stamp out,

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Speaker 3: another form of man-made God, if you will. Rob, maybe

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Speaker 3: this is a good point to do a refresher on

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Speaker 3: what those parts of the Bible we referred to were.

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Speaker 3: I talked about a passage from the book of Jeremiah

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Speaker 3: where the prophet is railing against the worship of idols,

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Speaker 3: and he sort of satirically makes this speech comparing idols, like,

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Speaker 3: casting the creation of an idol in a negative light.

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Speaker 3: And he compares it to a scarecrow in a field.

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Speaker 3: I think the point being that like a scarecrow in

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Speaker 3: his view, an idol is something that has no actual

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Speaker 3: power is made by humans and only serves to trick

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Speaker 3: the gullible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And mine was, I believe from the book of Ferris

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Speaker 2: Bueller in which, uh, uh, a scarecrow is used to, um,

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Speaker 2: To carry out some shenanigans and trick somebody into thinking

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Speaker 2: that there's somebody sleeping in a bed when they're not there.

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Speaker 3: Right. It was the story of Saul, Saul's daughter Michal

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Speaker 3: and David in the Hebrew Bible where Saul, the king,

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Speaker 3: wants to kill David. And so David runs out a

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Speaker 3: window and then Mikal, it says, puts like an idol,

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Speaker 3: puts something in a bed that resembles a man. I

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Speaker 3: think puts goat hair on top of it or something.

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Speaker 3: So it's like the movie Ferris Bueller, where there is

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Speaker 3: the appearance of David lying sick in the bed. But

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Speaker 3: in fact, it is a decoy. And then Saul has

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Speaker 3: the whole bed brought to him so that he can

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Speaker 3: kill David. But then it's revealed like, whoops, not really David. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it took great pains not to wake him up.

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Speaker 2: Wake him up here in my throne room.

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Speaker 3: Exactly. Okay, so Jamie's message continues. The passage from Jeremiah

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Speaker 3: sounds very much like it might be referring to an Asherah. Asherah,

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Speaker 3: as I'm sure you know, was the female divine consort

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Speaker 3: of El, the chief Semitic god who was merged with

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Speaker 3: Yahweh to become the god of the Bible. The main

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Speaker 3: cultic object of Asherah was a kind of wooden pole.

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Speaker 3: There are many references in the Bible to forbidding such

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Speaker 3: poles and commanding their destruction. I can't comment on the

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Speaker 3: original text, of course, but this verse sounds like it

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Speaker 3: could be one of those. Yeah, Jamie, I was looking

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Speaker 3: at some scholarship, and I don't think I came across

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Speaker 3: that interpretation, but that's interesting. You might want to look

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Speaker 3: into that further. And then Jamie goes on to say,

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Speaker 3: in the other verse you mentioned, Michal lays an idol

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Speaker 3: in King David's bed so that he can escape Saul's wrath. Apparently,

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Speaker 3: this is a specific kind of idol called teraphim, or

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Speaker 3: disgraceful things. There seems to be a debate on the subject,

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Speaker 3: but some scholars think that these may have been the decapitated, dried,

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Speaker 3: and plastered heads of ancestors placed on the wall and

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Speaker 3: consulted as an oracle. Certainly more interesting than Ferris Bueller's dummy.

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Speaker 3: Keep up the good work, Jamie. Well, thank you, Jamie.

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Speaker 3: On your comparison with the teraphim, I cannot speak to

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Speaker 3: the connection to teraphim and what is referenced in the Bible,

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Speaker 3: but I know in other ancient sites there was a

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Speaker 3: practice of keeping the bodies and sometimes the heads of

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Speaker 3: dead relatives inside the house. I'm thinking, for example, of

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Speaker 3: the extremely ancient proto-city of Çatalhöyük, which is in modern-day Turkey.

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Speaker 3: We've talked about it on the show before. Archaeologists have

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Speaker 3: found the bones and sometimes the disconnected skulls of what

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Speaker 3: are assumed often to be relatives kept inside houses or

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Speaker 3: deposited under the floor of a home, seemingly as a

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Speaker 3: form of what's called secondary burial. So I think what

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Speaker 3: would often happen is you might bury your grandparents' body

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Speaker 3: out somewhere for a while to decompose and then come

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Speaker 3: back later, get the bones or get the skull and

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Speaker 3: then bring them into the house, maybe bury them under

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Speaker 3: the bed or under the floor. Or maybe leave them

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Speaker 3: out somewhere in the house. Maybe you would get grandma's

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Speaker 3: skull and put it somewhere on the mantle. And I

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Speaker 3: know there was at least one celebrated find from Çatalhöyük

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Speaker 3: where there was a skull that had been plastered and decorated,

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Speaker 3: like you're saying, seemingly to recreate the appearance of flesh

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Speaker 3: and face. And I want to be clear that from

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Speaker 3: my understanding, we don't really have a way of knowing

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Speaker 3: what these were used for. But I think ancestor veneration

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Speaker 3: is definitely usually assumed. And it seems we don't have

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Speaker 3: direct evidence of this, but it seems a plausible possibility

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Speaker 3: that it could have been for everyday necromancy, like asking

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Speaker 3: the dead relative's head or body for advice. You know,

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Speaker 3: this seems like a thing that some ancient cultures would

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Speaker 3: have done and could have been what was going on here.

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Speaker 3: So I think there are several assumptions or leaps that

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Speaker 3: we can't really establish based on the evidence to get

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Speaker 3: to the idea that the body in the bed was

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Speaker 3: like plastered bones. But it's a very cool idea. I

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Speaker 3: love thinking that the decoy David was actually like, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, McCall's dead relative of some sort. That would

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Speaker 3: be great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember Julian Jaynes had a lot

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Speaker 2: to say about this and his work on the bicameral mind,

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Speaker 2: the idea of that. An ancestor's head being made to

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Speaker 2: speak one way or another. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, thank you, Jamie.

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Speaker 2: All right. This next one comes to us from Dave.

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Speaker 2: The subject line, scabies and scarecrows. All right. Let's go

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Speaker 2: in and see what this one's about. Hi, Robert and Joe.

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Speaker 2: This is Dave in New York. I was listening to

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Speaker 2: your shows on scarecrows and thinking specifically about the negative

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Speaker 2: ways people treated them, almost like they were a taboo.

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Speaker 2: Suddenly I remembered reading the latest National Geographic about a

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Speaker 2: troop of gorillas that was almost eradicated by an outbreak

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Speaker 2: of scabies, a gross mite disease that I'm sure y'all

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Speaker 2: have talked about somewhere else. I'm actually not sure that

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Speaker 2: we've ever talked about scabies on the show.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: In part because I realize my own knowledge of scabies

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Speaker 2: is very surface level. I know of it, and... I, I,

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Speaker 2: I've known people who've dealt with it, but, uh, I would, uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, put me on the spot and I'm not

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Speaker 2: gonna be able to tell you much about it.

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Speaker 3: Your knowledge is only skin deep. Is that what you're saying?

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Speaker 2: I guess so. But in a way it's perfect because

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Speaker 2: I don't have, I don't have any misconceptions about it. So, um,

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Speaker 2: and I know that I know little about it, but anyway, uh,

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Speaker 2: Dave continues, the researchers trace that outbreak to the gorillas

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Speaker 2: touching a scarecrow in a nearby field that had contaminated clothing.

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Speaker 2: It occurs to me that in general, an effigy left

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Speaker 2: outside in all weather wearing used human clothing and probably

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Speaker 2: a solid host for all sorts of nastiness would make

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Speaker 2: a potential disease vector. Ergo, a taboo emerges about them.

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Speaker 2: What do you think? Anyway, still loving the show after

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Speaker 2: all these years. Thanks for everything, Dave.

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Speaker 3: Interesting. I don't know if we considered that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But yeah, I believe it outside. It's going to

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Speaker 2: get a bit gross. You know, certainly this is, we're

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Speaker 2: recording this very shortly after Halloween itself. So a lot

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Speaker 2: of us are having the experience of our jack-o'-lanterns, if

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Speaker 2: they have not rotted already, just suddenly rapidly decomposing. And granted,

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Speaker 2: a scarecrow doesn't need to have a pumpkin, organic pumpkin

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Speaker 2: component to it, but it's easy to think about that

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Speaker 2: as well. Like, you know, and also we just talked

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Speaker 2: about in our Ig Nobel episode about decaying cotton clothing

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Speaker 2: and all. So, you know, scarecrows are not forever. You

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Speaker 2: put them out there, whatever state they're in, it's just

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Speaker 2: going to get grosser. Okay.

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Speaker 3: Are you ready for me to do this next message?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: This is from Lee. Subject line, are you a scarecrow? Hi, Rob, Joe,

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Speaker 3: and the ghost behind you. Bizarre question that arose in

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Speaker 3: my mind while listening. What if I am a scarecrow?

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Speaker 3: What if I've been knowingly placed or maneuvered into position

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Speaker 3: by someone and to passively frighten off other animals, people, beings,

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Speaker 3: or concepts. I have no examples, but I love pondering this. Best, Lee. Well, Lee,

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Speaker 3: we did, of course, in the episodes, talk about the

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Speaker 3: idea of using human bird scarers. Like, throughout history, you

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Speaker 3: might have people hire children to run around in fields

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Speaker 3: with a rattle or something like that to scare the

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Speaker 3: birds away. So those would be live human employees directly

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Speaker 3: employed for bird scaring. And I'm sure there are more

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Speaker 3: cases where people have manipulated, unknowing party is to exploit

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Speaker 3: their presence in scaring away birds or other pests. But

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Speaker 3: the thing that really interested me, I started looking into

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Speaker 3: whether there are any examples of non-human animals using humans

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Speaker 3: as scarecrows for them. And I think there are some

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Speaker 3: arguable cases, maybe depending on how much intentionality you want

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Speaker 3: to read into things. But You might call this adaptive

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Speaker 3: appropriation of human presence, where animals at least use the

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Speaker 3: presence of living humans to their benefit, such as to

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Speaker 3: scare away predators. I did a little searching, and one

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Speaker 3: example I came up with was in a paper from

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Speaker 3: 2007 in the journal Biology Letters by Joel Berger called Fear,

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Speaker 3: Human Shields, and the Redistribution of Prey and Predators in

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Speaker 3: Protected Areas. So in the abstract of this paper, Berger

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Speaker 3: notes that in wildlife protection areas, despite the goal to

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Speaker 3: preserve and protect natural animal populations, they often still have

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Speaker 3: to accommodate human visitation in some ways. So there might

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Speaker 3: be roads passing through them, places where humans are allowed

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Speaker 3: to gather and observe. And Berger writes, quote, an unintended

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Speaker 3: consequence is the strong modulation of the three-way interaction involving people, predators,

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Speaker 3: and prey. a dynamic that questions the extent to which

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Speaker 3: animal distributions and interactions are independent of subtle human influences.

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Speaker 3: Here I capitalize on the remarkable nine-day synchronicity in which 90%

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Speaker 3: of moose neonates in the Yellowstone ecosystem are born to

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Speaker 3: demonstrate a substantive change in how prey avoid predators. Birth

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Speaker 3: sites shift away from traffic-averse brown bears and towards paved roads.

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Speaker 3: The decade-long modification was associated with carnivore recolonization, but neither

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Speaker 3: mothers in bear-free areas nor non-Paris females altered patterns of

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Speaker 3: landscape use. These findings offer rigorous support that mammals use

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Speaker 3: humans to shield against carnivores and raise the possibility that

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Speaker 3: redistribution has occurred in other mammalian taxa due to human

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Speaker 3: presence in ways that we have yet to anticipate. So

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Speaker 3: the finding here is that Of course, moose newborns are

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Speaker 3: prey for brown bears like grizzly bears. Brown bears more

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Speaker 3: often try to avoid areas that are frequented by humans

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Speaker 3: and their cars. Thus, moose mothers adapt to exploit roads

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Speaker 3: and areas with a lot of human traffic and activity

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Speaker 3: to give their newborns more of a chance. In essence,

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Speaker 3: they are using us as scarecrows to scare the bears away.

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Speaker 3: And I think there have to be examples of other

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Speaker 3: species that do this as well in ways that we've

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Speaker 3: never even noticed or documented.

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Speaker 2: This is interesting. You know, I was recently reading some

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Speaker 2: material about corvids, and this didn't directly involve humans, but

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of observations about how crows and ravens,

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Speaker 2: they're very intelligent birds, as we've discussed in the show before,

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Speaker 2: and they'll have a heightened understanding of of predator-prey-scavenger interactions

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Speaker 2: in their immediate vicinity. And then they'll be able to

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Speaker 2: figure out ways to essentially manipulate those interactions. And it

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Speaker 2: might be something like, I know what I want to

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Speaker 2: do with this corpse, but let's let the vultures get

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Speaker 2: there first because they're gonna open it up a little bit,

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Speaker 2: things like that. But just this general idea that, okay,

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Speaker 2: there's a general matrix to the predator-prey-scavenger interactions in the

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Speaker 2: creature's immediate vicinity. And then they're going to figure out, well,

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Speaker 2: how can I make the best use of this? And

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Speaker 2: if humans are part of that matrix, that makes sense

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Speaker 2: as well. You know, not just for crows, but any

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Speaker 2: other animal that is doing their thing and has, to

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Speaker 2: a large extent, survived because on some level or another,

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Speaker 2: they can make sense of these interactions. Determine that weak point.

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Speaker 2: in the potential predators activities and exploit it like the

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Speaker 2: moose seem to be doing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really interesting too. So am I understanding right

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Speaker 3: when you say that crows might or corvids in general

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Speaker 3: might say allow vultures to get to a dead animal first?

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Speaker 3: Is the idea that that would be to allow the

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Speaker 3: vultures to do some of the harder work in like

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Speaker 3: opening up the body, like more the more effortful processing

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Speaker 3: or something?

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. Another example that I'm reminded of concerns ostrich eggs.

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Speaker 2: The ostrich egg is apparently too tough for certain corvids

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Speaker 2: to get into, but they would very much like to.

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Speaker 2: And so they have to depend on other animals to

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Speaker 2: make that initial piercing of the eggshell. And then once

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Speaker 2: it's done, ravens can work together to scare away or

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Speaker 2: at least momentarily scare away some of the animals that

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Speaker 2: either open up the egg or help open up the

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Speaker 2: carcass that's too tough for them. They'll get the good

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Speaker 2: bits they want. They'll get the good meat. And then

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Speaker 2: they'll go off on their own and let the primary

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Speaker 2: scavengers back to do their work.

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Speaker 3: Okay. So you manipulate another animal or at least let

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Speaker 3: another animal be your butcher and then maybe scare them

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Speaker 3: away or take advantage of what's left.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Ed Yong wrote an article about this in National

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Speaker 2: Geographic back in 2011 titled, Vultures Use Tools, Ravens Use Vultures,

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Speaker 2: Vultures Are Tools.

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Speaker 3: That's great.

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Speaker 2: So look that up if you're interested to learn more.

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Speaker 3: Love Ed as a science writer, by the way.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Great stuff.

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Speaker 2: All right. Shall we dig into this? We have a

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Speaker 2: rather long one here from Jeff with one F titled

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Speaker 2: bird trauma.

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Speaker 3: Yes. Now, Jeff, as you know, very long email. We

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Speaker 3: probably can't feature the whole thing, but this is a

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Speaker 3: great message. So we will do at least a substantial

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Speaker 3: chunk of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because a big part of this email is a

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Speaker 2: response to us covering the oversized cultural footprint of the

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Speaker 2: Wizard of Oz, certainly on our on our cinematic scarecrows. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So Jeff here is going to shed some more light

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Speaker 2: on all of this. Greetings, Halloween aficionados. Since your coverage

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Speaker 2: of Return to Oz on Weird House resulted in me

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Speaker 2: reading all of the L. Frank Baum Oz books, I

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Speaker 2: feel obligated to report on the Scarecrow and Scarecrow adjacent material.

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Speaker 2: The Scarecrow doesn't have much of an origin story. He

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Speaker 2: was only a couple days old when Dorothy ran into

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Speaker 2: him and was randomly imbued with life. Because Oz is

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Speaker 2: just nuts like that. He describes awakening to the world

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Speaker 2: when the farmers who made him painted on his first ear.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting. Before the second ear was painted, you know,

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Speaker 2: it runs. kind of counter to, I'm thinking, some of

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Speaker 2: the tales of like, you know, the magic paintbrush and

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Speaker 2: bringing the dragon alive only when the final eye is applied,

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Speaker 2: that sort of thing. Anyway, he could hear them talking

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Speaker 2: and then see them as soon as his eyes were

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Speaker 2: painted on, but he couldn't follow them home because he

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Speaker 2: had a giant pole up his back. At first, he

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Speaker 2: successfully scared crows, but soon they realized he wasn't a

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Speaker 2: threat and just started eating the corn all around him.

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Speaker 2: Animals and Oz can talk, and the crows were pretty

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Speaker 2: cool about it. They weren't upset with him. They just

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Speaker 2: thought the farmers were idiots for trying to scare them

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Speaker 2: with a straw man. The scarecrow was bummed that he

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Speaker 2: wasn't good at his job, but a crow told him, hey,

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Speaker 2: it's not your fault that they didn't give you any brains,

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Speaker 2: which encouraged him to take on his original quest.

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Speaker 3: Oh, origin story. I didn't realize that part.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, interesting. Later, the Witch of the West sends

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Speaker 2: 40 very uncool crow minions to peck out the eyes

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Speaker 2: of Dorothy and her party. But the scarecrow, one at

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Speaker 2: a time, grabs them out of the air and snaps

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Speaker 2: their necks.

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Speaker 3: Whoa.

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Speaker 2: This is right after the Tin Woodman kills 40 wolves

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Speaker 2: with his axe. There's a lot of carnage in the

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Speaker 2: early books. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I recall reading that the books are much more violent

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Speaker 3: than the movie.

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Speaker 2: The Scarecrow is probably the most interesting arc of all

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Speaker 2: the Oz characters. After being installed as king of the

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Speaker 2: Emerald City, he kind of buys into his own hype

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Speaker 2: and becomes a little jerky for a while. He never

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Speaker 2: really enjoyed being a politician and preferred to be an adventurer,

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Speaker 2: so that part of his story doesn't last long. I

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Speaker 2: believe we briefly referenced this in our Scarecrow episode, and

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Speaker 2: I believe this is also part of the plot of

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Speaker 2: Return to Oz.

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Speaker 3: Or it's at least the backstory.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's like Scarecrow was the king, but has been...

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Speaker 2: dethroned since Dorothy has been away from Oz, something to

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Speaker 2: that effect. Yeah. Anyway, we continue here. He had a

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Speaker 2: lot of swagger because he was, fire notwithstanding, largely indestructible,

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Speaker 2: but that got him into trouble. For example, when the

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Speaker 2: party was trying to get past a tall picket fence,

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Speaker 2: he suggested someone just throw him over, but he ends

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Speaker 2: up getting impaled on a spike and stuck up there.

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Speaker 2: In another instance, he goes over a waterfall, and by

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Speaker 2: the time his friends get him out of the water,

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Speaker 2: his straw is waterlogged and full of tadpoles and fish eggs.

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Speaker 2: So they have to empty him out and roll him

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Speaker 2: up until they can find some fresh straw to make

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Speaker 2: him whole again. Oh. Also, he's a bit of a

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Speaker 2: pinhead since the wizard adds pins and needles to the

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Speaker 2: contents of his head bag to make him sharp. In

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Speaker 2: the movie, he gets the diploma instead. Oh.

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Speaker 3: You know, I remember the diploma at the end of

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Speaker 3: the movie didn't make a lot of sense to me

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Speaker 3: when I was a kid, but I don't know if

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Speaker 3: the pins make any more sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It's just a pun, I guess.

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Speaker 2: Let's see. Jeff continues here. Jack Pumpkinhead, as seen in

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Speaker 2: the Return to Oz movie, on the other hand, is

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Speaker 2: brought to life on purpose, similar to Feathertop. He's originally

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Speaker 2: created as a prank, a human-looking body set up to

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Speaker 2: give a witch a start when she encounters him in

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Speaker 2: the dark. But then he's purposely animated with some stolen

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Speaker 2: magic powder. He spends most of his existence worried about

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Speaker 2: his pumpkin rotting. We were just talking about this. Although

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Speaker 2: he's fine as long as he can find a fresh one. Also,

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Speaker 2: he's clumsy. as he was built quickly as a one-off gag,

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Speaker 2: so his joints are always wearing down and in need

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Speaker 2: of repair. Despite his alarming appearance in the movie, he's

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Speaker 2: always portrayed as loyal, friendly, and a bit goofy. In

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Speaker 2: terms of Scarecrow tech, there's an alternative that I had

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Speaker 2: never heard of until I saw it in a manga,

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Speaker 2: see attached pages. There's a running gag that the main

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Speaker 2: character is freaked out by balloons, which appear as a

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Speaker 2: single spooky eyeball. These would look awfully good in a

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Speaker 2: giant skull decoration. If you image search for bird scaring balloons,

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Speaker 2: it seems that the West has settled on the design

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Speaker 2: of a beach ball-sized sphere with multiple spooky eyes around

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Speaker 2: the equator, a color scheme of yellow, black, and red,

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Speaker 2: and a streamer hanging below the sphere. Not sure how

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Speaker 2: effective they are or why the look became standardized this way,

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Speaker 2: but they're pretty cool decorations, although probably not as appropriate

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Speaker 2: for room decor as plastic owls. You're supposed to hang

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Speaker 2: them so the streamer can blow in the wind and

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Speaker 2: the sphere can look around.

428
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 3: To me, these things look like talismans against the evil eye. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

429
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 2: And of course, that has a long history. I believe

430
00:24:10,580 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 2: we've discussed that on the show before as well. On

431
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,949
Speaker 2: the animal front, he continues, cephalopods like octopuses and squid

432
00:24:16,990 --> 00:24:21,290
Speaker 2: make decoys with their ink. Yes, these are called pseudomorphs,

433
00:24:21,390 --> 00:24:24,350
Speaker 2: by the way. These are great. Jeff continues, but they

434
00:24:24,450 --> 00:24:28,689
Speaker 2: don't actually build the decoy or repurpose garbage. Well, they

435
00:24:28,730 --> 00:24:32,580
Speaker 2: sort of biologically repurpose food as inkblast. Of course, the

436
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 2: point is to trick the predators into attacking the decoy

437
00:24:35,540 --> 00:24:38,580
Speaker 2: and maybe getting a snout full of confusion and chemical weaponry,

438
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 2: which is not at all what scarecrows are for. But

439
00:24:41,420 --> 00:24:44,889
Speaker 2: it's still an animal creating an effigy of itself, sort of.

440
00:24:45,500 --> 00:24:46,260
Speaker 3: It's a good example.

441
00:24:46,300 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

442
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,060
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It's like kind of like a glob of

443
00:24:49,180 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 2: ink and mucus and bubbles.

444
00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:50,900
Speaker 3: Yeah.

445
00:24:51,460 --> 00:24:51,610
Speaker 2: Yeah.

446
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,659
Speaker 3: But also a good distinction you make, Jeff, which is

447
00:24:54,740 --> 00:24:58,530
Speaker 3: that it's an innate biological property. It's a decoy that

448
00:24:58,570 --> 00:25:01,550
Speaker 3: comes from the cephalopod's own body rather than something you

449
00:25:01,609 --> 00:25:04,290
Speaker 3: make out of objects from the world.

450
00:25:04,810 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. And it's like the very heat of the

451
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 2: moment sort of decoy. It's like roughly the same size

452
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,419
Speaker 2: as the animal that emitted it. But you're not going

453
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:18,619
Speaker 2: to have like an extended... SpongeBob SquarePants-like situation where a

454
00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 2: fish ends up marrying it and then finally realizes that

455
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 2: it was just ink.

456
00:25:23,180 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 3: All right.

457
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,980
Speaker 2: All right. Let's see. Jeff continues. To answer your question

458
00:25:27,060 --> 00:25:29,980
Speaker 2: of whether scarecrow faces would matter to crows, the answer

459
00:25:30,060 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: is yes. There was a University of Washington study where

460
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 2: researchers wearing a specific mask captured crows, which was not

461
00:25:37,020 --> 00:25:39,940
Speaker 2: appreciated by the birds. After this, anyone wearing the same

462
00:25:39,980 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: mask would be screamed at and dive-bombed by crows, including

463
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: ones who were not captured yet. Researchers wearing a neutral

464
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,500
Speaker 2: mask experienced no particular response from the crows, so a

465
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:55,090
Speaker 2: scarecrow's individual face could certainly matter. Yeah, this is another

466
00:25:55,109 --> 00:25:59,070
Speaker 2: fascinating thing about corvids. Yeah, they can identify faces. They

467
00:25:59,750 --> 00:26:03,609
Speaker 2: know who you are if you have wronged them. And

468
00:26:03,650 --> 00:26:06,530
Speaker 2: then it continues. The amazing part is that this led

469
00:26:06,570 --> 00:26:10,710
Speaker 2: to an enduring cultural grudge against that mask. The information

470
00:26:10,810 --> 00:26:15,810
Speaker 2: actually spread generationally. Years after the original capturing event, different

471
00:26:15,869 --> 00:26:19,409
Speaker 2: crows had no experience with the original offenders, some of

472
00:26:19,470 --> 00:26:22,930
Speaker 2: who were not even alive when the original event occurred

473
00:26:23,030 --> 00:26:27,190
Speaker 2: still participated in the attacks. Researchers would periodically walk across

474
00:26:27,250 --> 00:26:30,550
Speaker 2: campus wearing the mask, but not otherwise doing anything objectionable,

475
00:26:30,910 --> 00:26:33,190
Speaker 2: and each one of these events was an opportunity for

476
00:26:33,290 --> 00:26:36,609
Speaker 2: new crows to learn from the group. The grudge continued

477
00:26:36,670 --> 00:26:39,030
Speaker 2: for many years after the initial capturing.

478
00:26:39,510 --> 00:26:40,050
Speaker 3: That's great.

479
00:26:40,250 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's amazing. I'm going to have to look that

480
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:46,980
Speaker 2: study up after we wrap up here. Anyway, Jeff says,

481
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,940
Speaker 2: enjoying my fourth Halloween season with you guys. Hope there

482
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 2: are many more.

483
00:26:51,460 --> 00:26:54,410
Speaker 3: Thank you, Jeff. Great message. And there's a lot more here. Rob,

484
00:26:54,430 --> 00:26:56,390
Speaker 3: do you want to comment on any of this other stuff?

485
00:26:57,210 --> 00:26:59,609
Speaker 2: I just I will briefly. There is a comment here

486
00:26:59,970 --> 00:27:02,370
Speaker 2: where Jeff says, also, I know Rob is not into

487
00:27:02,430 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 2: DC comics. Are the boring humorless movies to blame? And

488
00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:08,460
Speaker 2: then he recommends something in Marvel, and he'd been talking

489
00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 2: about DC Comics earlier. I just want to clarify, I

490
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,770
Speaker 2: don't pick a side on the DC versus Marvel thing.

491
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:20,909
Speaker 2: I think I've wound up talking more about Marvel in

492
00:27:21,010 --> 00:27:24,470
Speaker 2: recent years on the show, but I've also talked about

493
00:27:24,510 --> 00:27:28,670
Speaker 2: DC before, and some of my favorites are actually DC.

494
00:27:28,730 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 2: Swamp Thing, DC Comics, always one of my favorites. And

495
00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:38,250
Speaker 2: a fun little behind-the-scenes fact, In Slack, our Slack channel

496
00:27:38,290 --> 00:27:41,330
Speaker 2: for our show, my thumbnail is actually a swamp thing.

497
00:27:42,490 --> 00:27:44,449
Speaker 2: Some DC characters are among my favorites.

498
00:27:46,330 --> 00:27:48,870
Speaker 3: I think I also am relatively impartial, though I'm just

499
00:27:49,310 --> 00:27:54,130
Speaker 3: generally not super deep in the superhero world. But wait,

500
00:27:54,290 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: so are there people who are like real partisans here?

501
00:27:57,619 --> 00:28:00,660
Speaker 3: They're like, you know, DC, no Marvel.

502
00:28:01,310 --> 00:28:04,050
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, fans can get very, very tribal with

503
00:28:04,090 --> 00:28:06,189
Speaker 2: all of these things, you know, where, um, there'll be,

504
00:28:06,210 --> 00:28:09,860
Speaker 2: you know, be at Marvel versus DC or certainly like

505
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 2: Marvel movies versus DC movies. It's, I mean, it's silly. It's, um, uh,

506
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,340
Speaker 2: you know, they're, they're better things to, to, to spend

507
00:28:17,380 --> 00:28:19,820
Speaker 2: your time doing. And especially since I think there's great

508
00:28:19,859 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 2: stuff in both, uh, both categories. So, um, but, but yeah, you,

509
00:28:23,900 --> 00:28:25,980
Speaker 2: you inevitably see this kind of thing.

510
00:28:26,900 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 3: I don't even know what the basis of the, like, wouldn't,

511
00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:35,389
Speaker 3: wouldn't it be individual, individual characters or media properties? Why

512
00:28:35,410 --> 00:28:39,190
Speaker 3: would it be the owner of the IP?

513
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,959
Speaker 2: I don't know. When you get into the actual comic books,

514
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:47,380
Speaker 2: there are always these crossover events that occur anyway. The

515
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 2: characters themselves seem to get along well enough with each other.

516
00:28:50,010 --> 00:28:52,930
Speaker 2: They may be fighting each other, but they're hanging out.

517
00:28:53,030 --> 00:28:55,970
Speaker 2: If they can coexist to some degree, then the fans

518
00:28:56,010 --> 00:28:58,170
Speaker 2: of the different franchises should be able to as well.

519
00:28:58,530 --> 00:29:02,470
Speaker 3: Am I remembering this correct, that it's the Marvel characters

520
00:29:02,590 --> 00:29:06,730
Speaker 3: who fight the Street Fighter characters and the DC characters

521
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 3: who fight the Mortal Kombat characters?

522
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 2: Well, when you're getting into the known fighting games, I

523
00:29:14,980 --> 00:29:18,260
Speaker 2: believe that is the game. You have Street Fighter versus X-Men.

524
00:29:18,340 --> 00:29:20,180
Speaker 2: Those games are a lot of fun. Then you have

525
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 2: the MK versus DC. But when you get into some

526
00:29:23,940 --> 00:29:29,380
Speaker 2: of the other franchise mashups, I feel like there are

527
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,700
Speaker 2: other things. I think Predator has been all over the place.

528
00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 2: I think aliens have been all over the place. They've

529
00:29:33,740 --> 00:29:37,210
Speaker 2: popped up. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just flying

530
00:29:37,230 --> 00:29:38,610
Speaker 2: by the seat of my pants here, but I believe

531
00:29:38,650 --> 00:29:42,420
Speaker 2: that's the case. Might be the case with Godzilla as well. So,

532
00:29:42,740 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: you know, if Godzilla, if Predator, if aliens can get

533
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 2: along with the different franchises, then surely we can as well.

534
00:29:50,420 --> 00:29:53,220
Speaker 3: I like to see Spider-Man versus the Xenomorphs. Like, they

535
00:29:53,260 --> 00:29:56,220
Speaker 3: both create secretions. Yeah, well.

536
00:29:56,690 --> 00:30:01,780
Speaker 2: I believe that definitely happened. There was a recent, what

537
00:30:01,820 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 2: was it? Avengers versus alien miniseries that came out. I

538
00:30:06,140 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 2: talked about it briefly in a monster fact episode. So

539
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 2: listeners can, can look that up if you want my

540
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,540
Speaker 2: full thoughts. But my short thought is it was really

541
00:30:13,580 --> 00:30:16,010
Speaker 2: fun and they did a really good job, like imagining

542
00:30:16,530 --> 00:30:21,210
Speaker 2: an apocalyptic scenario. And they, they pulled in stuff from,

543
00:30:21,490 --> 00:30:24,350
Speaker 2: you know, the classic alien and aliens. They brought in

544
00:30:24,370 --> 00:30:28,340
Speaker 2: stuff from Prometheus and, And Covenant. And they told a really,

545
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 2: really fun story, in my opinion. And answered the question,

546
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: what happens when Mr. Sinister gets a hold of xenomorph biology?

547
00:30:34,980 --> 00:30:37,650
Speaker 2: What happens there? The results are not pretty.

548
00:30:38,330 --> 00:30:39,030
Speaker 3: I had no idea.

549
00:30:40,190 --> 00:30:42,410
Speaker 2: But Spider-Man's in there somewhere. I don't remember what he did,

550
00:30:42,450 --> 00:30:46,470
Speaker 2: but he probably died. A lot of characters died in that.

551
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:50,050
Speaker 3: Let's see. Are you ready for me to read this

552
00:30:50,090 --> 00:30:51,150
Speaker 3: message from BB?

553
00:30:51,710 --> 00:30:52,390
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's have it.

554
00:30:57,820 --> 00:31:03,100
Speaker 3: BB says, subject, scarecrows. For me, the creepiest scarecrow scene

555
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:08,250
Speaker 3: in cinema is from the original 1968 Planet of the Apes,

556
00:31:08,750 --> 00:31:12,490
Speaker 3: when our hapless astronauts are first emerging from the Forbidden

557
00:31:12,530 --> 00:31:17,990
Speaker 3: Zone and stumble upon these large, X-shaped, vaguely humanoid effigies.

558
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 3: I remember being physically startled like a jump scare. I'm

559
00:31:21,620 --> 00:31:24,060
Speaker 3: surprised you didn't mention that one. You guys are the best.

560
00:31:24,140 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 3: Keep it up.

561
00:31:24,620 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: BB.

562
00:31:26,050 --> 00:31:28,970
Speaker 3: Well, thank you, BB. Yeah, that is a great scene.

563
00:31:29,450 --> 00:31:32,350
Speaker 3: I had forgotten about this until you mentioned it. Rob,

564
00:31:32,370 --> 00:31:33,950
Speaker 3: I think we were just talking about this on the

565
00:31:33,990 --> 00:31:36,460
Speaker 3: show recently, but I've been wanting to revisit the original

566
00:31:36,500 --> 00:31:39,700
Speaker 3: Planet of the Apes movie. My memory of it is

567
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,460
Speaker 3: that it's actually pretty good, despite it more often in

568
00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 3: my brain comes up now from like the Simpsons parodies

569
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,250
Speaker 3: and stuff. But I think it probably holds up.

570
00:31:50,010 --> 00:31:51,490
Speaker 2: I think so, too. I have a very strong memory

571
00:31:51,510 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 2: of seeing it for the first time on television. because

572
00:31:55,020 --> 00:31:57,180
Speaker 2: I didn't have it spoiled for me. It's one of

573
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: those films that is often just spoiled via pop culture.

574
00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:04,500
Speaker 2: And it really had an impact on me. And I

575
00:32:04,540 --> 00:32:07,420
Speaker 2: also really, I remember really enjoying Beneath Planet of the

576
00:32:07,460 --> 00:32:11,620
Speaker 2: Apes as well. But yeah, I haven't seen either in

577
00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:13,730
Speaker 2: so long. And so I had to look up a

578
00:32:13,770 --> 00:32:16,510
Speaker 2: screenshot of the scarecrows from Planet of the Apes. I

579
00:32:16,530 --> 00:32:19,810
Speaker 2: have no memory of this. This is completely new to me.

580
00:32:20,050 --> 00:32:22,390
Speaker 2: Presumably it was in the TV version that I watched

581
00:32:22,430 --> 00:32:23,770
Speaker 2: as a kid, but I don't remember.

582
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:26,980
Speaker 3: Uh, so this would be in the scene right before

583
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,780
Speaker 3: the astronauts, they come into the fields and they know

584
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 3: that they find other humans there who are like eating

585
00:32:32,460 --> 00:32:35,030
Speaker 3: the crops. And then suddenly the, the humans are chased

586
00:32:35,070 --> 00:32:37,970
Speaker 3: away by apes on horseback. And so that's the first big,

587
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:39,310
Speaker 3: like what is going on?

588
00:32:39,330 --> 00:32:39,410
Speaker 2: Yeah.

589
00:32:41,030 --> 00:32:43,050
Speaker 3: As for beneath the planet of the, that's the second

590
00:32:43,210 --> 00:32:45,170
Speaker 3: one with the humans that worship the bomb.

591
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:48,090
Speaker 2: I can't remember if it's two or three, but, uh,

592
00:32:48,130 --> 00:32:49,990
Speaker 2: but yeah, this is the one with the bomb worshipers

593
00:32:50,030 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 2: and the mutants underground. And, um, I don't think it's

594
00:32:54,260 --> 00:32:56,220
Speaker 2: I think most people would agree it's not as good

595
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: as the original, but it at least injects some interesting

596
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 2: additional ideas into it. And it has its fans as well.

597
00:33:03,260 --> 00:33:05,100
Speaker 3: I have a very strong memory of a scene where

598
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 3: the mutants are singing a dissonant minor key version of

599
00:33:08,420 --> 00:33:11,330
Speaker 3: all things bright and beautiful at a bomb. It's a

600
00:33:11,370 --> 00:33:13,410
Speaker 3: nuclear bomb and they're doing hymns to it.

601
00:33:15,150 --> 00:33:18,290
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I remember this as well. So, yeah, I mean,

602
00:33:18,330 --> 00:33:20,570
Speaker 2: both of those are really contenders for future Weird House

603
00:33:20,610 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 2: treatment for sure. All right, this next one comes to

604
00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 2: us from, is this from Meow?

605
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,219
Speaker 3: I didn't know exactly how to credit this person. They

606
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 3: did not sign their email. And so the pseudonym is

607
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,930
Speaker 3: just from their email address. And I didn't know if

608
00:33:35,970 --> 00:33:37,530
Speaker 3: they wanted us to use the whole thing. So I'm

609
00:33:37,610 --> 00:33:40,790
Speaker 3: shortening it. So I'm just calling them Meow. Okay, yeah.

610
00:33:40,910 --> 00:33:44,470
Speaker 2: And just a reminder, folks, if you want to be anonymous,

611
00:33:44,670 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 2: if you don't want us to read a listener, something

612
00:33:46,940 --> 00:33:49,220
Speaker 2: you've sent in on listener mail, if there are other

613
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 2: things like, name pronunciation or pronouns, you know, just go

614
00:33:53,140 --> 00:33:56,510
Speaker 2: ahead and call that out. And that helps us out. Anyway,

615
00:33:56,530 --> 00:33:59,110
Speaker 2: this one, the subject line here is scarecrows in education.

616
00:34:04,860 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 2: And the author says, hello, mind blowers. I just wanted

617
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: to write with some connections I quickly made while listening

618
00:34:09,660 --> 00:34:12,580
Speaker 2: to your episodes on the scarecrow in the film of

619
00:34:12,620 --> 00:34:16,580
Speaker 2: the whiz. Great movie. The Scarecrow, played by Michael Jackson,

620
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,760
Speaker 2: shows his intelligence and wisdom by having read the fortune

621
00:34:19,780 --> 00:34:23,330
Speaker 2: cookies in his body. This seems similar to the Shinto

622
00:34:23,370 --> 00:34:26,990
Speaker 2: deity you had mentioned that knew all but never moved,

623
00:34:27,530 --> 00:34:30,790
Speaker 2: and this being a possible comment on study versus experience.

624
00:34:32,230 --> 00:34:34,210
Speaker 2: I also recalled that I had heard a bit of

625
00:34:34,250 --> 00:34:37,259
Speaker 2: a joke in rural farming communities of the southern United States.

626
00:34:37,660 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 2: This was from much older people, but they would say

627
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,630
Speaker 2: something like, the only experience Literate people in town are

628
00:34:42,670 --> 00:34:45,650
Speaker 2: the scarecrows, and this was because the scarecrows were commonly

629
00:34:45,670 --> 00:34:48,549
Speaker 2: filled with newspaper along with plant matter. I had heard

630
00:34:48,610 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 2: on more than one occasion that this also referred to politicians.

631
00:34:52,900 --> 00:34:56,339
Speaker 2: The connection between staying still for observation and education seems

632
00:34:56,380 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: to be some loose connection between the two. Thank you

633
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,300
Speaker 2: for your time and a great podcast. Also, this podcast

634
00:35:02,340 --> 00:35:03,989
Speaker 2: came out at a good time for me as I

635
00:35:04,010 --> 00:35:06,930
Speaker 2: was thinking of making a short film about scarecrows.

636
00:35:07,510 --> 00:35:09,870
Speaker 3: Oh, well, if you haven't done it already, good luck

637
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:10,150
Speaker 3: to you.

638
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,020
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder to what, like, is it just about

639
00:35:14,060 --> 00:35:18,810
Speaker 2: scarecrows or does it star scarecrows? Because that's always, they're non-union.

640
00:35:20,590 --> 00:35:22,710
Speaker 2: They definitely save a few bucks there, right?

641
00:35:23,350 --> 00:35:27,690
Speaker 3: Yeah, they work hard. Yeah. And it seems like they

642
00:35:27,710 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 3: know a lot. No, yeah, I'm curious. Is this going

643
00:35:31,540 --> 00:35:33,779
Speaker 3: to be a documentary or a horror film or what?

644
00:35:34,180 --> 00:35:35,299
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we'd love to know.

645
00:35:36,610 --> 00:35:40,489
Speaker 3: Okay, this next message is from Steven, subject, another 60s

646
00:35:40,690 --> 00:35:44,350
Speaker 3: scarecrow film. Steven says, Hi, Robert and Joe. I really

647
00:35:44,430 --> 00:35:47,910
Speaker 3: enjoyed your scarecrow trilogy. I had never read or heard

648
00:35:48,110 --> 00:35:50,750
Speaker 3: Feathertop before, and as I am a bit older than

649
00:35:50,790 --> 00:35:53,969
Speaker 3: you guys, I managed to miss Harold the Scarecrow entirely.

650
00:35:54,430 --> 00:35:57,230
Speaker 3: Spooky stuff. I wanted to let you know about another

651
00:35:57,330 --> 00:36:01,030
Speaker 3: film with a scarecrow from the 60s. It is a

652
00:36:01,030 --> 00:36:05,350
Speaker 3: 1962 Hammer film called, in the UK, Captain Clegg. and

653
00:36:05,469 --> 00:36:09,049
Speaker 3: in its U.S. release called Night Creatures. The story is

654
00:36:09,110 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 3: based on the same Dr. Sin character that Russell Thorndike created,

655
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,060
Speaker 3: and it is basically the same general plot as the

656
00:36:16,100 --> 00:36:18,300
Speaker 3: Disney film. I think this will be referenced in another

657
00:36:18,580 --> 00:36:19,420
Speaker 3: message in a minute.

658
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,649
Speaker 2: And we briefly talked about the Disney film in question.

659
00:36:22,810 --> 00:36:26,130
Speaker 3: Yes. I think this is a very good Hammer film.

660
00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:30,670
Speaker 3: More of an adventure, though, as it has distinct horror elements.

661
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 3: Peter Cushing gives an excellent performance in the title role,

662
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,100
Speaker 3: and the member of the smugglers who keeps watching the

663
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,259
Speaker 3: field dressed as a scarecrow is none other than young

664
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,529
Speaker 3: Oliver Reed, who cut his performance teeth in several Hammer films.

665
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,730
Speaker 3: Thanks for all you do, Best Steven. Oliver Reed disguised

666
00:36:49,790 --> 00:36:51,410
Speaker 3: as a scarecrow? I gotta watch this.

667
00:36:51,790 --> 00:36:55,290
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Oliver Reed has been all over my socials

668
00:36:55,450 --> 00:36:58,910
Speaker 2: of late because we have that... There is new restored

669
00:36:59,130 --> 00:37:02,149
Speaker 2: cut of the devils out. Ken Russell's the devils out

670
00:37:02,210 --> 00:37:05,390
Speaker 2: in theaters. I have not had a chance to see that,

671
00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:09,350
Speaker 2: that version yet, but you know, amazing movie. And of

672
00:37:09,430 --> 00:37:12,790
Speaker 2: course a very notable for its performances, including Oliver Reed,

673
00:37:12,810 --> 00:37:13,969
Speaker 2: who's amazing in it.

674
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 3: Should I flag that one for family movie night?

675
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely. That's a good family film, but yeah,

676
00:37:21,580 --> 00:37:22,180
Speaker 2: I'd love to come back.

677
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:22,820
Speaker 3: We're joking.

678
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,450
Speaker 2: Yeah, not a family film, but a great film. And

679
00:37:27,469 --> 00:37:28,850
Speaker 2: in general, I'd love to come back and do some

680
00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:32,310
Speaker 2: more Oliver Reed. Like one, speaking of Oliver Reed and Hammer,

681
00:37:32,350 --> 00:37:34,950
Speaker 2: there's one, I forget the title offhand, but there's at

682
00:37:34,989 --> 00:37:38,469
Speaker 2: least one werewolf film where Oliver Reed is the werewolf.

683
00:37:38,510 --> 00:37:42,930
Speaker 2: And of course, that sounds like must see as well.

684
00:37:42,969 --> 00:37:43,750
Speaker 2: I haven't seen that one.

685
00:37:46,570 --> 00:37:48,989
Speaker 3: Oh, but this next one also involves scarecrow movies. You

686
00:37:49,010 --> 00:37:50,090
Speaker 3: want to do this one from Susan?

687
00:37:50,660 --> 00:37:53,779
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. This one directly refers to the movie that

688
00:37:53,820 --> 00:38:02,140
Speaker 2: we were, the Disney film we alluded to. Susan writes

689
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,660
Speaker 2: in and says, my partner has an encyclopedic 60s TV memory.

690
00:38:06,020 --> 00:38:08,460
Speaker 2: He instantly remembered this when I told him about your

691
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:13,140
Speaker 2: fabulous Scarecrow episodes. Patrick McGowan is a Robin Hood-like character

692
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,500
Speaker 2: in the England of George III. I vaguely remember the

693
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 2: catchy and weirdly long intro theme song, Lyrics and Images,

694
00:38:20,940 --> 00:38:23,819
Speaker 2: originally aired on the Wonderful World of Color. We watched

695
00:38:23,860 --> 00:38:26,380
Speaker 2: it all the time when I time as little five

696
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 2: and six-year-old boomer kids. I was surprised you guys didn't

697
00:38:29,460 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 2: know about Yeah, yeah. I missed this one. This one

698
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 2: maybe was aired on Disney before I had access to

699
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:38,700
Speaker 2: it or when I was living out of the country

700
00:38:38,739 --> 00:38:42,379
Speaker 2: or something. I don't know. Anyway, Susan continues, In honor

701
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,580
Speaker 2: of the episodes, we went to see our local park

702
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 2: scarecrow competition that opened this morning. Sadly disappointing. Bland and

703
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,899
Speaker 2: heavily used to advertise local small businesses. I was hoping

704
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 2: for weirdness that I could photograph and send to you,

705
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 2: but the businesses and school classes mostly went with superhero

706
00:38:57,580 --> 00:39:01,450
Speaker 2: Halloween costumes surrounded by potted mums, and straw bales for

707
00:39:01,469 --> 00:39:06,689
Speaker 2: the most part. Oh, well. Regards, Susan. Yeah, I mean,

708
00:39:07,750 --> 00:39:10,819
Speaker 2: contemporary scarecrow competitions generally are going to have a lot

709
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,259
Speaker 2: of promotion of businesses and local organizations. That's the way

710
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,320
Speaker 2: it is with the one here at Atlanta's Botanical Garden.

711
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,430
Speaker 2: But the one that we have here is also really good.

712
00:39:22,489 --> 00:39:25,810
Speaker 2: It's just inevitably you're going to, that's part of the vibe.

713
00:39:25,850 --> 00:39:27,609
Speaker 2: It's like different groups are coming together to put these

714
00:39:27,650 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 2: scarecrows out, and those groups are a with some sort

715
00:39:31,300 --> 00:39:35,300
Speaker 2: of an organization or a business. In fact, I don't

716
00:39:35,340 --> 00:39:37,530
Speaker 2: know if you remember this, Joe, but way back when

717
00:39:37,570 --> 00:39:42,190
Speaker 2: we were HowStuffWorks, we were part of HowStuffWorks, some group

718
00:39:42,230 --> 00:39:47,970
Speaker 2: in the office did a scarecrow for the office. And

719
00:39:48,070 --> 00:39:51,050
Speaker 2: his memory is, If memory serves, it was kind of

720
00:39:51,090 --> 00:39:52,989
Speaker 2: thrown together at the very last minute.

721
00:39:53,010 --> 00:39:54,810
Speaker 3: Did it have a milk jug for a head?

722
00:39:55,110 --> 00:39:56,370
Speaker 2: I think it probably did.

723
00:39:56,450 --> 00:39:57,550
Speaker 3: I think I remember this.

724
00:39:57,730 --> 00:40:02,609
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I just remember it being definitely, you know,

725
00:40:03,010 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 2: part of the charm of a scarecrow competition is that

726
00:40:05,300 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 2: some of them look amazing and are made by bona

727
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,940
Speaker 2: fide artists. And others are, you know, it's more about

728
00:40:09,980 --> 00:40:12,980
Speaker 2: the experience. This one, I think, was more about the experience.

729
00:40:13,180 --> 00:40:15,180
Speaker 3: Some are 70% scabies.

730
00:40:15,300 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. You're going to have some scabies coming. content

731
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 2: in your scarecrow.

732
00:40:28,550 --> 00:40:30,710
Speaker 3: Okay i think that does it for messages in response

733
00:40:30,750 --> 00:40:32,790
Speaker 3: to the scarecrow series but we also got a bunch

734
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:36,700
Speaker 3: of messages about our grimoire of horror episode this is

735
00:40:36,739 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 3: where we talked about a couple of horror short stories

736
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:44,219
Speaker 3: rob you talked about Jorge Luis Borges' story, There Are

737
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,660
Speaker 3: More Things. This was Borges explicitly saying he was trying

738
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,900
Speaker 3: to do a Lovecraftian story. And I talked about a

739
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,460
Speaker 3: very short tale called The Wife's Story by Ursula K.

740
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 3: Le Guin. Oh, and by the way, just inserting this

741
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,180
Speaker 3: here because I forgot to earlier, our messages about these

742
00:41:02,219 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 3: stories will include spoilers for both of these stories. So

743
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,779
Speaker 3: they both have surprises in them. So if you would

744
00:41:07,820 --> 00:41:10,339
Speaker 3: like to read them unspoiled, You haven't listened to our

745
00:41:10,460 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 3: episode on this yet. You might want to pause here

746
00:41:12,860 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 3: and read these stories before you listen to the messages

747
00:41:16,020 --> 00:41:20,180
Speaker 3: about them. So a bunch of people wrote in about this. Rob,

748
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 3: do you have any preference about the order.

749
00:41:21,820 --> 00:41:23,500
Speaker 2: We do these? Oh, just go for it. Yeah.

750
00:41:24,180 --> 00:41:27,390
Speaker 3: Let's see. I'll do this one from Lee. This was short,

751
00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:30,049
Speaker 3: but Lee on the subject of there are more things

752
00:41:30,890 --> 00:41:33,930
Speaker 3: includes a screenshot of a page from the Dr. Seuss book.

753
00:41:33,950 --> 00:41:36,230
Speaker 3: There's a walk it in my pocket. I know this

754
00:41:36,250 --> 00:41:39,029
Speaker 3: book well. Yeah. And it is the page with the

755
00:41:39,130 --> 00:41:42,969
Speaker 3: Vogue under the rug. This is the one page in

756
00:41:43,010 --> 00:41:45,969
Speaker 3: the book that some children, including my child, find a

757
00:41:46,010 --> 00:41:49,489
Speaker 3: little bit scary. And so the page says, there is

758
00:41:49,710 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 3: only one. If you're not familiar with the Dr. Seuss book,

759
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,700
Speaker 3: by the way, there's a lot of, it's like going

760
00:41:55,739 --> 00:42:00,299
Speaker 3: through the house and naming bizarre creatures that live on

761
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 3: or in objects around the house.

762
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,260
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the news brush on my toothbrush. Yes, exactly.

763
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 3: Exactly. So it says, the only one I'm really scared

764
00:42:09,180 --> 00:42:12,489
Speaker 3: of is that vug under the rug. And this one

765
00:42:12,550 --> 00:42:14,410
Speaker 3: is different than all the other creatures, because all the

766
00:42:14,430 --> 00:42:17,210
Speaker 3: other creatures we see in silly illustrations, but this is

767
00:42:17,250 --> 00:42:20,830
Speaker 3: just a large lump underneath the rug in a dark room,

768
00:42:20,870 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 3: and we can't see it.

769
00:42:22,210 --> 00:42:24,790
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're just left to imagine the form of the vug.

770
00:42:25,930 --> 00:42:28,610
Speaker 3: Lee's message reads, I used to be afraid of the

771
00:42:28,670 --> 00:42:32,060
Speaker 3: vug because I couldn't see what it looked like. Now

772
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,489
Speaker 3: I fear the vug because its author and creator... may

773
00:42:35,550 --> 00:42:38,790
Speaker 3: never have invented what it looks like before he passed away.

774
00:42:39,250 --> 00:42:43,670
Speaker 3: Thanks for the story, Lee. P.S. Pretorius, I guess that's

775
00:42:43,750 --> 00:42:47,029
Speaker 3: the creator of the house in the story. Maybe not

776
00:42:47,050 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 3: the creator, but the person who redid the house. Right, right.

777
00:42:50,780 --> 00:42:54,660
Speaker 2: The guy who buys Red House and then begins to

778
00:42:54,700 --> 00:42:58,859
Speaker 2: have these blasphemous renovation projects go on inside it, yeah.

779
00:42:59,219 --> 00:43:01,300
Speaker 3: I don't know quite what this means, but Lee says

780
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,770
Speaker 3: Pretorius shops at Bed Bath & Beyond. Hmm.

781
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,620
Speaker 2: Possibly. I think Lee also on our Discord server shared

782
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,779
Speaker 2: some images of children's playground equipment, some of the more

783
00:43:11,860 --> 00:43:15,910
Speaker 2: modern designs, children's playground and or exercise equipment, like public

784
00:43:15,950 --> 00:43:19,490
Speaker 2: exercise equipment that perhaps looks a little like the furniture

785
00:43:19,570 --> 00:43:20,149
Speaker 2: in Red House.

786
00:43:20,810 --> 00:43:22,629
Speaker 3: Very nice. Good.

787
00:43:23,860 --> 00:43:24,060
Speaker 2: Yeah.

788
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:24,779
Speaker 3: Take your pick, Rob.

789
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:34,489
Speaker 2: Well, let's see. Yeah, we've got some werewolf content. Jim

790
00:43:34,530 --> 00:43:36,690
Speaker 2: writes in and says, hey, guys, love the grimoire of horror.

791
00:43:37,090 --> 00:43:40,669
Speaker 2: You asked about similar stories to the wife story. Here's

792
00:43:40,770 --> 00:43:43,029
Speaker 2: one I read several years ago by Peter David, who

793
00:43:43,050 --> 00:43:47,020
Speaker 2: penned many Star Trek novels. It's called Howling Mad. It's

794
00:43:47,060 --> 00:43:49,700
Speaker 2: about a werewolf who bites a normal wolf. That normal

795
00:43:49,739 --> 00:43:52,620
Speaker 2: wolf then turns into a human man when the moon

796
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:54,940
Speaker 2: is full. It was a fun story, Jim.

797
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,980
Speaker 3: Oh, well, I haven't read that, so I can't comment more.

798
00:43:58,020 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 3: But OK, more wolf wear. Mm hmm. I got another message.

799
00:44:02,020 --> 00:44:10,750
Speaker 3: This is from Ben, subject Grimoire of Horror 3. Ben says,

800
00:44:10,810 --> 00:44:13,710
Speaker 3: Hey guys, thanks for the podcast. Really loved this episode.

801
00:44:14,090 --> 00:44:16,910
Speaker 3: I had two thoughts about the wife story that led

802
00:44:16,969 --> 00:44:20,210
Speaker 3: me to writing in for the first time. First, that

803
00:44:20,270 --> 00:44:24,890
Speaker 3: this might not be a reverse werewolf story, especially as

804
00:44:24,930 --> 00:44:28,070
Speaker 3: he did not revert to being a wolf on his death.

805
00:44:28,750 --> 00:44:32,730
Speaker 3: He was perhaps a standard werewolf, but the inversion is

806
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 3: that his life as a wolf was not monstrous, but beautiful.

807
00:44:37,969 --> 00:44:41,459
Speaker 3: That's an interesting thought. So if I understand Ben right,

808
00:44:41,500 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 3: the idea is the husband in the story began as

809
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:49,720
Speaker 3: a man, but would sometimes transform into a wolf. And

810
00:44:49,739 --> 00:44:52,770
Speaker 3: the wife's version of the husband, she only knew him

811
00:44:52,790 --> 00:44:54,989
Speaker 3: in the times when he was a wolf. So when

812
00:44:55,030 --> 00:44:58,049
Speaker 3: he went away... that was him reverting back to his

813
00:44:58,140 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 3: original form. I guess nothing in the story really rules

814
00:45:02,260 --> 00:45:05,980
Speaker 3: that out except the understanding that you assume the husband

815
00:45:06,060 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 3: is with the family most of the time early on,

816
00:45:08,980 --> 00:45:11,420
Speaker 3: which would make it hard to understand unless he's a

817
00:45:11,420 --> 00:45:14,380
Speaker 3: werewolf who's a wolf in wolf form most of the time.

818
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 2: I wonder what Chetwin Hayes would have made of all

819
00:45:17,700 --> 00:45:21,500
Speaker 2: of this because when we originally talked about this story,

820
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,860
Speaker 2: we were just thinking about werewolves and possibly wolf wares.

821
00:45:25,219 --> 00:45:29,210
Speaker 2: We weren't thinking about were vamps were goos or the, uh,

822
00:45:29,410 --> 00:45:31,330
Speaker 2: their offspring, the offspring of a were goo and a

823
00:45:31,350 --> 00:45:34,469
Speaker 2: were vamp, a shatty or a Maddie, the offspring of

824
00:45:34,510 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 2: a were goo and a vamp goo or a ratty,

825
00:45:37,739 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 2: the offspring of a were vamp and a vamp goo.

826
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 2: Where does a wolf where fit into all of this?

827
00:45:43,739 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 3: I couldn't even begin to comment.

828
00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:47,730
Speaker 2: I don't know.

829
00:45:47,770 --> 00:45:51,270
Speaker 3: I think that's, that that's just a different universe. I

830
00:45:51,330 --> 00:45:52,830
Speaker 3: can't put that in, in the story.

831
00:45:52,930 --> 00:45:53,190
Speaker 2: Okay.

832
00:45:53,230 --> 00:45:58,590
Speaker 3: Okay. Uh, Ben's message goes on. Secondly, why would the husband,

833
00:45:58,690 --> 00:46:01,110
Speaker 3: as happens in the story, why would he try to

834
00:46:01,230 --> 00:46:05,180
Speaker 3: kill his wolf family as a man? Might his motivation

835
00:46:05,219 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 3: have been his shame for bedding with wolves? Sometimes the

836
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,180
Speaker 3: werewolf does not remember their life as a wolf, but

837
00:46:12,219 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 3: awakens mysteriously naked, possibly with blood on their face. But

838
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 3: I think the shame the husband feels on realizing what

839
00:46:20,660 --> 00:46:23,100
Speaker 3: he has been doing in his wolf form leads him

840
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,989
Speaker 3: to attack his wolf family. man's shame leading to his

841
00:46:27,110 --> 00:46:32,210
Speaker 3: most monstrous acts. That's an interesting read, too. Thinking about

842
00:46:32,290 --> 00:46:35,270
Speaker 3: how the story might continue, might the man have had

843
00:46:35,310 --> 00:46:38,570
Speaker 3: a human family in the village? Finding him the victim

844
00:46:38,610 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 3: of a wolf attack, will the villagers be coming to

845
00:46:41,260 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 3: hunt the wolves to avenge him? Lots to think about

846
00:46:44,300 --> 00:46:49,919
Speaker 3: for such a short story. Love the work you guys do. Ben. Yeah, thanks, Ben.

847
00:46:50,660 --> 00:46:54,339
Speaker 2: If a werewolf sometimes wakes up in their human form,

848
00:46:54,870 --> 00:46:57,410
Speaker 2: And finds themselves naked and covered with blood and bits

849
00:46:57,450 --> 00:47:00,310
Speaker 2: of grass. Do you think a wolf wear sometimes wakes

850
00:47:00,390 --> 00:47:03,029
Speaker 2: up in their wolf form and finds themselves like in

851
00:47:03,090 --> 00:47:04,990
Speaker 2: a suit with a law degree?

852
00:47:05,010 --> 00:47:06,490
Speaker 3: Anything like that?

853
00:47:06,700 --> 00:47:07,029
Speaker 2: Yeah.

854
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,299
Speaker 3: With a cup of coffee spilled inside them. What is this?

855
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:11,020
Speaker 2: Yeah.

856
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 3: Can't get this smell off of me. All right.

857
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,580
Speaker 2: We have one more related to werewolves and wolf wears.

858
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:26,510
Speaker 2: This is from Scott. Scott says, hi, Joe and Robert.

859
00:47:26,590 --> 00:47:30,390
Speaker 2: I enjoyed your recent episode discussing werewolves via Lagoon Story

860
00:47:30,550 --> 00:47:34,060
Speaker 2: about a reverse werewolf. When you invited people to send

861
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:35,819
Speaker 2: in other examples of this, the first that came to

862
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,180
Speaker 2: my mind is Princess Fiona from Shrek, who was cursed

863
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:41,939
Speaker 2: to turn into an ogre each night until a, quote,

864
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 2: true love's kiss would enable her to stay in her

865
00:47:44,340 --> 00:47:47,930
Speaker 2: true form. Of course, we learned that after she gets

866
00:47:47,969 --> 00:47:51,830
Speaker 2: such a kiss from the ogre Shrek, she stays an ogre.

867
00:47:52,150 --> 00:47:55,540
Speaker 2: Her true form the one she and others she loves

868
00:47:55,860 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 2: have learned to accept as beautiful in its own way.

869
00:47:59,739 --> 00:48:02,740
Speaker 3: That's a good twist and reveals my total ignorance of Shrek.

870
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never seen a Shrek movie, but I respect

871
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 2: that a lot of people are fond of them.

872
00:48:10,170 --> 00:48:12,830
Speaker 3: I think I saw the first Shrek back in, whenever

873
00:48:12,850 --> 00:48:16,529
Speaker 3: it came out, 2001 or something, and remember nothing about

874
00:48:16,570 --> 00:48:20,690
Speaker 3: it except I remember Donkey. I remember Mike Myers' voice

875
00:48:20,790 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 3: and Donkey jokes. Yeah.

876
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 1: Yeah.

877
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:24,700
Speaker 2: It came up for me recently when I think I

878
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,380
Speaker 2: did a monster fact on ogre and the origin of

879
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 2: the word ogre. And when you get into like some

880
00:48:30,180 --> 00:48:33,170
Speaker 2: of the most popular examples of an ogre that is

881
00:48:33,710 --> 00:48:36,950
Speaker 2: that is defined as a species, as a distinctive species.

882
00:48:37,530 --> 00:48:40,529
Speaker 2: And like you just can't ignore Shrek because Shrek does

883
00:48:40,910 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 2: have a pretty large pop culture footprint, even if some

884
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 2: of us have avoided seeing any of these movies.

885
00:48:46,820 --> 00:48:49,339
Speaker 3: Wait, no, I remember one more thing. I remember a,

886
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,510
Speaker 3: is it a Smash Mouth cover of I'm a Believer

887
00:48:52,550 --> 00:48:54,850
Speaker 3: by the Monkees? That sounds right to me.

888
00:48:54,850 --> 00:48:57,750
Speaker 2: I feel like there is some sort of Smash Mouth

889
00:48:57,810 --> 00:49:02,430
Speaker 2: Shrek connection, but it sounds true. I believe it when

890
00:49:02,469 --> 00:49:02,910
Speaker 2: you tell me this.

891
00:49:02,930 --> 00:49:05,140
Speaker 3: It's like the year 2000 in a nutshell.

892
00:49:05,380 --> 00:49:05,540
Speaker 2: Yeah.

893
00:49:07,700 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 3: Okay, should we do some responses to October Weird House Cinema?

894
00:49:11,980 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, let's do it. What do we have here?

895
00:49:14,250 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm going to read... This one from Dean is

896
00:49:18,460 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 3: about our Vault episode, our Weird House Rewind on Frankenstein

897
00:49:23,660 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 3: Meets the Wolfman. I think that originally aired last October.

898
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:27,399
Speaker 2: I believe so, yes.

899
00:49:32,739 --> 00:49:36,550
Speaker 3: Dean says, loved your presentation of Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman,

900
00:49:36,590 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 3: but the real monster of that film... was the editing room.

901
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,439
Speaker 3: Bela Lugosi was actually 59 years old and in such

902
00:49:44,500 --> 00:49:48,500
Speaker 3: fragile health that he collapsed under the 35-pound makeup and

903
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,950
Speaker 3: weighted asphalt boots, leaving stuntmen Eddie Parker and Gil Perkins

904
00:49:53,010 --> 00:49:56,950
Speaker 3: to do the heavy lifting. Even wilder, Universal edited out

905
00:49:57,150 --> 00:50:02,190
Speaker 3: all of Lugosi's dialogue and the subplot explaining that Igor's

906
00:50:02,290 --> 00:50:07,190
Speaker 3: brain had struck the monster blind. accidentally creating the famous

907
00:50:08,210 --> 00:50:13,710
Speaker 3: arm-extended Frankenstein walk because audiences had no context for why

908
00:50:13,770 --> 00:50:17,029
Speaker 3: he was stumbling around. Thanks for the review, and don't

909
00:50:17,090 --> 00:50:20,590
Speaker 3: forget to present Encounters of the Spooky Kind this Halloween.

910
00:50:20,930 --> 00:50:23,299
Speaker 3: It's only been four years since you first mentioned it.

911
00:50:24,219 --> 00:50:26,140
Speaker 2: Well, I'm down for it.

912
00:50:26,219 --> 00:50:26,980
Speaker 3: Achievement failed.

913
00:50:28,540 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it doesn't have to be Halloween. You know,

914
00:50:30,180 --> 00:50:31,580
Speaker 2: we could do that. We can do that one at

915
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 2: any point.

916
00:50:32,540 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: Hmm.

917
00:50:33,770 --> 00:50:36,029
Speaker 2: All right, this next one comes to us from Tim,

918
00:50:36,219 --> 00:50:41,140
Speaker 2: and this is in response to another Weird House Cinema Rewind.

919
00:50:41,180 --> 00:50:44,140
Speaker 2: This one was Frogs. This is a much older episode,

920
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,020
Speaker 2: but I've been going back and trying to find older

921
00:50:48,060 --> 00:50:51,660
Speaker 2: episodes of Weird House that have never been rerun to

922
00:50:51,890 --> 00:50:54,509
Speaker 2: feature on our Rewind, and this was one of them.

923
00:50:59,750 --> 00:51:03,509
Speaker 2: Tim says, fellas, good evening. So in your commentary, you

924
00:51:03,550 --> 00:51:06,330
Speaker 2: mentioned that it couldn't be Florida, uh, because there are

925
00:51:06,390 --> 00:51:08,529
Speaker 2: no bugs or something to that effect. And I will

926
00:51:08,570 --> 00:51:10,620
Speaker 2: just have to take his word for it because it's

927
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 2: been a long time since we did that episode. I

928
00:51:12,820 --> 00:51:16,339
Speaker 2: don't remember everything we talked about other than just how

929
00:51:16,380 --> 00:51:20,410
Speaker 2: many reptiles and amphibians, uh, emerged to wreak havoc in

930
00:51:20,450 --> 00:51:21,910
Speaker 2: the movie. And I believe we had a lot of

931
00:51:22,050 --> 00:51:27,010
Speaker 2: discussion of, um, uh, the tight jeans worn by, uh, who.

932
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:29,470
Speaker 3: Who's the star, uh, Sam Elliott?

933
00:51:29,630 --> 00:51:30,450
Speaker 2: Sam Elliott, yes.

934
00:51:30,489 --> 00:51:30,629
Speaker 3: Really?

935
00:51:30,650 --> 00:51:34,100
Speaker 2: Super young Sam Elliott. It's the world's tightest blue jeans

936
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:35,140
Speaker 2: throughout the picture.

937
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:35,860
Speaker 3: Boom.

938
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. So anyway, Tim continues and says, I propose a

939
00:51:40,300 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 2: hypothesis from someone living in Florida. Enough frogs and lizards

940
00:51:44,620 --> 00:51:47,370
Speaker 2: will keep the bugs low, and that movie had that

941
00:51:47,450 --> 00:51:50,690
Speaker 2: in spades. We keep an uneasy alliance with the frogs

942
00:51:50,730 --> 00:51:53,310
Speaker 2: and lizards and let them onto the back porch to

943
00:51:53,350 --> 00:51:55,690
Speaker 2: fight our battles for us. What no one seems to

944
00:51:55,750 --> 00:51:59,760
Speaker 2: tell you, though, is the monster-sized poops these things leave behind.

945
00:52:00,219 --> 00:52:02,580
Speaker 2: So we are faced with two alternatives, swarms of bugs

946
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,379
Speaker 2: or giant frog poop. The movie would have been more

947
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:09,340
Speaker 2: realistic with everyone slip-sliding around on invisible ice skates of

948
00:52:09,410 --> 00:52:11,620
Speaker 2: frog poop. Have a good one, Tim.

949
00:52:12,700 --> 00:52:16,130
Speaker 3: Well, Tim did not include these images, by the way, Rob. Oh, okay.

950
00:52:16,410 --> 00:52:17,890
Speaker 3: I went and fished up. I was like, what does

951
00:52:17,930 --> 00:52:20,029
Speaker 3: frog poop look like? I had no idea. So I

952
00:52:20,370 --> 00:52:22,750
Speaker 3: did a Google image search and these are some of

953
00:52:22,770 --> 00:52:27,460
Speaker 3: the top results. Shockingly, like, dense looking almost looks like

954
00:52:27,500 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 3: a type of like a metal you know it just

955
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,620
Speaker 3: looks like it would be heavy for its size.

956
00:52:33,090 --> 00:52:36,129
Speaker 2: Um yeah these pictures are alarming i initially thought tim

957
00:52:36,170 --> 00:52:38,029
Speaker 2: must have sent these and i was gonna say like

958
00:52:38,070 --> 00:52:40,510
Speaker 2: we don't we don't actually need these kinds of photos

959
00:52:40,530 --> 00:52:43,330
Speaker 2: sent in but uh and it's my fault not tim

960
00:52:43,969 --> 00:52:45,489
Speaker 2: i don't see a lot of frog poop i do

961
00:52:45,530 --> 00:52:47,930
Speaker 2: see a lot of gecko poop because uh my kiddo

962
00:52:47,969 --> 00:52:50,450
Speaker 2: has a has a gecko and um and i do

963
00:52:50,489 --> 00:52:52,470
Speaker 2: see its poops a lot those poops are a lot

964
00:52:52,530 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 2: smaller compared to what we see here.

965
00:52:54,510 --> 00:52:56,709
Speaker 3: Big like at least as big as the frog's upper

966
00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:57,270
Speaker 3: leg yeah.

967
00:52:57,650 --> 00:53:00,609
Speaker 2: Yeah i think on the whole mosquitoes versus frog poops

968
00:53:00,650 --> 00:53:02,470
Speaker 2: you want frog poops though i'll.

969
00:53:02,350 --> 00:53:14,569
Speaker 3: Take the frog poops yeah okay let's see uh should

970
00:53:14,590 --> 00:53:17,350
Speaker 3: i do this really long email about ghost house.

971
00:53:17,930 --> 00:53:19,450
Speaker 2: Oh wow yeah this is a good one this is

972
00:53:19,489 --> 00:53:22,760
Speaker 2: from russell and Yeah, this dude knows his ghost house.

973
00:53:23,150 --> 00:53:25,910
Speaker 3: Unbelievable amount of detail on ghost house, though we're one

974
00:53:25,950 --> 00:53:30,989
Speaker 3: to talk on that sort of thing. So Russell says, Hi,

975
00:53:31,030 --> 00:53:32,969
Speaker 3: Robert and Joe. This is a long one, but stick

976
00:53:33,010 --> 00:53:35,410
Speaker 3: with me. I think it's worth it. I enjoyed your

977
00:53:35,430 --> 00:53:38,390
Speaker 3: recent Weird House Cinema episode about ghost house. You mentioned

978
00:53:38,410 --> 00:53:40,690
Speaker 3: the riff tracks treatment of the movie a few times

979
00:53:40,730 --> 00:53:43,350
Speaker 3: during the episode, and I recommend it for anyone who

980
00:53:43,690 --> 00:53:46,140
Speaker 3: that enjoys it. their style of riffing. It's one of

981
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,100
Speaker 3: my favorites. I've rewatched that version countless times.

982
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 2: Yeah.

983
00:53:49,260 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 3: I think neither of us had seen it, right? You

984
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 3: hadn't seen it either.

985
00:53:52,180 --> 00:53:54,420
Speaker 2: No, I haven't. But it, like I say, it, this one's,

986
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 2: this one's probably a good riff because it, it's such

987
00:53:57,380 --> 00:53:58,140
Speaker 2: a ridiculous film.

988
00:53:58,340 --> 00:54:00,940
Speaker 3: The movie itself is pretty funny. So I can imagine.

989
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:01,100
Speaker 2: Yeah.

990
00:54:01,900 --> 00:54:04,180
Speaker 3: Uh, Russell says a couple of things that I think

991
00:54:04,219 --> 00:54:07,219
Speaker 3: came across a little odd, well, different than my read

992
00:54:07,340 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 3: about your interpretation of the movie.

993
00:54:09,620 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 2: Okay.

994
00:54:09,860 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 3: So Russell has some bones to pick. We're, but we're

995
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:16,670
Speaker 3: here for it. Uh, First, Paul and Martha are a, quote,

996
00:54:16,910 --> 00:54:20,430
Speaker 3: fun couple. Did we say that? I don't remember us

997
00:54:20,450 --> 00:54:21,010
Speaker 3: saying that.

998
00:54:21,110 --> 00:54:23,129
Speaker 2: I think we had a lot of fun watching them.

999
00:54:23,210 --> 00:54:25,190
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't want to hang out with

1000
00:54:25,230 --> 00:54:29,280
Speaker 2: them because they're constantly bickering. Yeah. But but but yeah,

1001
00:54:29,450 --> 00:54:30,240
Speaker 2: watching them was fun.

1002
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 3: OK. You know, you always when you get feedback like this,

1003
00:54:34,060 --> 00:54:37,259
Speaker 3: it's funny because like he's like, did I actually say that?

1004
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:37,739
Speaker 3: I wonder what.

1005
00:54:38,100 --> 00:54:38,299
Speaker 2: Anyway.

1006
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,700
Speaker 3: But Russell says you point out their constant arguing, which

1007
00:54:42,989 --> 00:54:45,609
Speaker 3: is all just Paul either being annoyed for no good

1008
00:54:45,670 --> 00:54:48,649
Speaker 3: reason or insisting on doing things for reasons that only

1009
00:54:48,690 --> 00:54:52,489
Speaker 3: make sense to him. Martha should leave him, which she does, apparently,

1010
00:54:52,989 --> 00:54:56,029
Speaker 3: right after Paul asks if she's gotten stupid for not

1011
00:54:56,110 --> 00:55:00,060
Speaker 3: understanding a confusing response to a question about a supposed

1012
00:55:00,260 --> 00:55:04,299
Speaker 3: precognitive episode involving Jack the Ripper. Oh, yeah, I do

1013
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:09,189
Speaker 3: remember that part. Martha says she's had enough of Paul's attitude, understandable,

1014
00:55:09,530 --> 00:55:11,830
Speaker 3: and that she's out of there. Then she's in the

1015
00:55:11,850 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 3: truck with him in the next scene, though she isn't

1016
00:55:14,540 --> 00:55:17,940
Speaker 3: really speaking to him. My headcanon on this is related

1017
00:55:17,980 --> 00:55:20,700
Speaker 3: to the fact that Paul can afford this massive apartment

1018
00:55:20,739 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 3: in Boston, and I can tell you that his radio

1019
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:27,339
Speaker 3: equipment is worth multiple thousands of dollars. And yes, the Yesu,

1020
00:55:27,489 --> 00:55:31,390
Speaker 3: which a brand name radio he calls out, the Yesu

1021
00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:34,629
Speaker 3: he spots later is a well-respected and often expensive piece

1022
00:55:34,670 --> 00:55:37,460
Speaker 3: of gear, too. So this is great because Russell not

1023
00:55:37,500 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 3: only has deep ghost house knowledge, but apparently has ham

1024
00:55:40,020 --> 00:55:40,800
Speaker 3: radio knowledge.

1025
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 2: There you go. Yeah.

1026
00:55:42,580 --> 00:55:47,410
Speaker 3: So Russell's message continues. Paul has money from somewhere. I'm

1027
00:55:47,450 --> 00:55:50,110
Speaker 3: guessing his family, not his job if he has one,

1028
00:55:50,130 --> 00:55:53,529
Speaker 3: because he doesn't work in data processing. He's a student.

1029
00:55:53,930 --> 00:55:57,009
Speaker 3: He mentions needing help studying for his exams. I think

1030
00:55:57,090 --> 00:55:59,810
Speaker 3: Martha stays with him after she said she was leaving

1031
00:55:59,850 --> 00:56:03,149
Speaker 3: because being a foreign student from Amsterdam, She has nowhere

1032
00:56:03,190 --> 00:56:05,290
Speaker 3: else to go that wouldn't end up with her back

1033
00:56:05,330 --> 00:56:10,110
Speaker 3: in the Netherlands. Regarding Pepe stealing $ 5, it kind of

1034
00:56:10,270 --> 00:56:12,509
Speaker 3: floors me that you both came to the conclusion that

1035
00:56:12,530 --> 00:56:15,700
Speaker 3: he somehow used the skeleton grabber hand to take the

1036
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:17,819
Speaker 3: money out of her pocket. I don't know. That's what

1037
00:56:17,860 --> 00:56:20,500
Speaker 3: I thought it was implying. It seemed like what the

1038
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,730
Speaker 3: movie was going for. But Russell says, I'd never even

1039
00:56:23,790 --> 00:56:27,310
Speaker 3: considered that idea. I've always thought the more obvious method

1040
00:56:27,330 --> 00:56:30,290
Speaker 3: of Pepe's thievery is just using the arm as a

1041
00:56:30,350 --> 00:56:33,730
Speaker 3: distraction so that he could pickpocket the victim using his

1042
00:56:33,790 --> 00:56:36,030
Speaker 3: free hand. Well, that would make a lot more sense

1043
00:56:36,070 --> 00:56:36,670
Speaker 3: in reality.

1044
00:56:36,910 --> 00:56:38,569
Speaker 2: That's the way it would work in the real world,

1045
00:56:38,630 --> 00:56:38,890
Speaker 2: for sure.

1046
00:56:38,910 --> 00:56:42,180
Speaker 3: Yes. It also kind of floors me that you thought

1047
00:56:42,260 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 3: Pepe was kind of a fun guy. As a character, yes.

1048
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 3: But as a person, these people are interacting within the story. No,

1049
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:53,090
Speaker 3: he's an annoying prankster, which isn't fun at all.

1050
00:56:54,020 --> 00:56:57,089
Speaker 2: True. He is a prankster who is just complaining about

1051
00:56:57,110 --> 00:57:01,330
Speaker 2: how literally everything in the world sucks. So, fair enough. Yes.

1052
00:57:01,730 --> 00:57:04,570
Speaker 3: I guess there could be confusion if we say something

1053
00:57:04,630 --> 00:57:08,550
Speaker 3: is fun in a movie. I just assume people understand

1054
00:57:08,590 --> 00:57:10,839
Speaker 3: that means that it's fun to watch the movie, not

1055
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:12,980
Speaker 3: like it would be fun to live this reality.

1056
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:17,420
Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway. Jason Voorhees is fun. I don't want to

1057
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 2: hang out with him.

1058
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,500
Speaker 3: Russell says the most interesting part of the ham radio

1059
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:24,610
Speaker 3: use in the movie is that so much of it

1060
00:57:24,780 --> 00:57:27,850
Speaker 3: is correct, at least by modern rules. I'm assuming they

1061
00:57:27,870 --> 00:57:31,650
Speaker 3: were pretty similar in 1988. But the frequency he mentioned

1062
00:57:31,710 --> 00:57:35,290
Speaker 3: several times, I assume this means the character Paul, frequency

1063
00:57:35,310 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 3: he mentions is not in the amateur bands at all,

1064
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,100
Speaker 3: at least not currently. 1490 megahertz is in the range

1065
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,490
Speaker 3: used by cell phones today. It's also very unlikely that

1066
00:57:44,530 --> 00:57:47,190
Speaker 3: Paul would be using his setup to talk on a

1067
00:57:47,250 --> 00:57:51,919
Speaker 3: frequency in the UHF range, which has pretty short line-of-sight transmission.

1068
00:57:52,500 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 3: He absolutely wouldn't be talking from Boston to anyone in Denver,

1069
00:57:56,620 --> 00:58:00,380
Speaker 3: the location related to the movie's most important question, who's

1070
00:58:00,420 --> 00:58:04,580
Speaker 3: more popular in Denver, Kim Basinger or Kelly LeBrock? For

1071
00:58:04,620 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 3: that kind of range, he'd be using the much lower

1072
00:58:07,050 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 3: HF bands from 3 MHz to 30 MHz. You said that,

1073
00:58:11,510 --> 00:58:12,990
Speaker 3: and then there's the part when they get to the

1074
00:58:13,030 --> 00:58:16,510
Speaker 3: house and they have this meeting with Jim, Jim Dallin,

1075
00:58:16,530 --> 00:58:19,970
Speaker 3: the weird character. You said that Jim hadn't put his

1076
00:58:20,070 --> 00:58:22,830
Speaker 3: antenna up yet, but that's not what he says. What

1077
00:58:22,850 --> 00:58:26,350
Speaker 3: he actually says makes much less sense. He tells Paul

1078
00:58:26,390 --> 00:58:28,650
Speaker 3: that he put the antenna up on the roof, but

1079
00:58:28,710 --> 00:58:32,230
Speaker 3: hadn't hooked it up yet. That's just so bizarre for

1080
00:58:32,310 --> 00:58:35,490
Speaker 3: so many reasons. He doesn't seem concerned that the radio

1081
00:58:35,610 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 3: is on and apparently picking up something despite having no

1082
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,910
Speaker 3: antenna connection. which is a thing you don't want to do.

1083
00:58:42,170 --> 00:58:44,530
Speaker 3: Bigger and older rigs like the ones here are a

1084
00:58:44,550 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 3: little more robust, but you definitely don't want to transmit,

1085
00:58:47,780 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 3: at least without an antenna or a dummy load, just

1086
00:58:51,660 --> 00:58:55,020
Speaker 3: a thing that matches the antenna's impedance, but doesn't actually

1087
00:58:55,060 --> 00:58:58,580
Speaker 3: transmit radio waves used for testing. Doing that can fry

1088
00:58:58,620 --> 00:59:02,110
Speaker 3: the electronics in the radio. I'm so happy you quoted

1089
00:59:02,270 --> 00:59:05,970
Speaker 3: Jim Dallin's introduction. It's one of my favorite exposition dumps

1090
00:59:06,030 --> 00:59:08,470
Speaker 3: in all of cinema. This is the part where they

1091
00:59:08,510 --> 00:59:11,610
Speaker 3: get to the house and Jim's like, he's suddenly explaining

1092
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 3: his relationship with everybody who's there with him while they're

1093
00:59:14,300 --> 00:59:17,240
Speaker 3: still just like holding knives at each other. I'm here

1094
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 3: with my sister, so-and-so and her boyfriend, so-and-so and they're blah, blah, blah.

1095
00:59:23,060 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 3: And so Russell says there are so many of those

1096
00:59:25,220 --> 00:59:27,500
Speaker 3: in this movie, too, like the cop who just starts

1097
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 3: telling them about the murders that happened in the house

1098
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:33,100
Speaker 3: 20 years ago for no reason, or the funeral director

1099
00:59:33,140 --> 00:59:36,860
Speaker 3: who tells a complete stranger unbidden about his former business

1100
00:59:36,930 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 3: partner's criminal desecration.

1101
00:59:38,930 --> 00:59:39,450
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1102
00:59:40,950 --> 00:59:44,830
Speaker 3: And who also apparently summons potential grieving clients who just

1103
00:59:44,890 --> 00:59:47,810
Speaker 3: walked in to the back to watch him performing his

1104
00:59:47,850 --> 00:59:51,980
Speaker 3: work on Dead Body is also true. That happens with

1105
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 3: multiple funeral director characters or mortuary sciences characters in the movies.

1106
00:59:57,700 --> 01:00:00,090
Speaker 3: They're always just bringing people into the room with them

1107
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:01,630
Speaker 3: while they're working on dead bodies.

1108
01:00:01,850 --> 01:00:04,230
Speaker 2: Yeah, people in the mortuary industry must have a time.

1109
01:00:04,790 --> 01:00:08,130
Speaker 2: Or I think that if there's anybody in the mortuary

1110
01:00:08,170 --> 01:00:10,590
Speaker 2: industry who watches a lot of horror films, I guess

1111
01:00:10,610 --> 01:00:13,340
Speaker 2: they're exposed to a lot of this. I would love

1112
01:00:13,380 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 2: to hear from anyone out there who does work in

1113
01:00:15,900 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 2: the mortuary industry, the funeral industry, that That does watch

1114
01:00:20,060 --> 01:00:21,570
Speaker 2: a lot of horror films if you have thoughts on

1115
01:00:22,030 --> 01:00:25,450
Speaker 2: the way the profession is generally presented. But then again,

1116
01:00:25,470 --> 01:00:27,230
Speaker 2: horror films are not the place you want to go

1117
01:00:27,290 --> 01:00:31,450
Speaker 2: for accurate presentation of pretty much any profession, be it

1118
01:00:31,690 --> 01:00:36,530
Speaker 2: the funeral industry or the dental services or anything. So,

1119
01:00:36,830 --> 01:00:39,140
Speaker 2: you know, that's just the way it goes. Yeah.

1120
01:00:39,950 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 3: OK, a couple more points Russell makes. Russell says one

1121
01:00:43,700 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 3: very minor correction. When Paul and Martha first reached the

1122
01:00:46,620 --> 01:00:49,380
Speaker 3: ghost house, Martha doesn't say the place is evil. She

1123
01:00:49,420 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 3: says it's depressing. But Paul wants to stay to check

1124
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:56,470
Speaker 3: out the inside and find the radio that made the transmission. OK,

1125
01:00:56,530 --> 01:01:00,290
Speaker 3: that's I stand corrected. Another funny bit you didn't mention

1126
01:01:00,850 --> 01:01:04,770
Speaker 3: during Mark's struggle with Valkos. Valkos stabs him in the

1127
01:01:04,790 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 3: shoulder with a pitchfork. Susan says they should take him

1128
01:01:07,540 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 3: to the hospital, but that never happens, and he's perfectly

1129
01:01:10,220 --> 01:01:13,170
Speaker 3: fine afterwards. That's right. He does get stabbed, and then

1130
01:01:13,210 --> 01:01:13,970
Speaker 3: it's like no more mention of that.

1131
01:01:13,990 --> 01:01:16,550
Speaker 2: I mean, that's movie shoulders. Movie shoulders can be stabbed.

1132
01:01:16,590 --> 01:01:21,190
Speaker 2: They can be shot. It just doesn't matter. It's filled

1133
01:01:21,210 --> 01:01:21,710
Speaker 2: with fluff.

1134
01:01:22,150 --> 01:01:26,380
Speaker 3: Yeah. Mark also keeps talking about Valkos having an axe,

1135
01:01:26,490 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 3: which he never did. That's right. They say axe, but

1136
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,990
Speaker 3: he's got a cleaver, like a butcher knife. Anyway, thanks

1137
01:01:32,030 --> 01:01:34,130
Speaker 3: for covering this movie. It's a lot of fun, and

1138
01:01:34,150 --> 01:01:36,310
Speaker 3: I think it's clear I've spent too much time thinking

1139
01:01:36,350 --> 01:01:38,630
Speaker 3: about some of the ridiculous things in it. Keep up

1140
01:01:38,650 --> 01:01:42,790
Speaker 3: the great work, Russell. Well, Russell, you are a human

1141
01:01:42,850 --> 01:01:45,690
Speaker 3: encyclopedia of Ghost House, and I tip my hat to you.

1142
01:01:46,110 --> 01:01:47,890
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's films like this that sometimes

1143
01:01:49,010 --> 01:01:52,310
Speaker 2: inspire the most thought, because we, the viewer, have to

1144
01:01:52,490 --> 01:01:55,350
Speaker 2: answer a lot of questions about it. All right, here's

1145
01:01:55,390 --> 01:01:58,910
Speaker 2: a quick one from Lawrence, titled Every Which Way But Loose.

1146
01:02:04,530 --> 01:02:06,630
Speaker 2: Hey guys, I'm listening to your Ghost House episode of

1147
01:02:06,670 --> 01:02:08,730
Speaker 2: Weird House as I type this, and I just thought

1148
01:02:08,750 --> 01:02:11,350
Speaker 2: I'd clear this up for you. Every which way but

1149
01:02:11,510 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 2: loose comes from the refrain in a song of the

1150
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 2: same title. The line is, you turn me every which

1151
01:02:18,220 --> 01:02:22,300
Speaker 2: way but loose, meaning you point me in every possible direction,

1152
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:26,490
Speaker 2: but never set me free. Basically another way of saying

1153
01:02:26,550 --> 01:02:29,250
Speaker 2: you drive me crazy. Back to the episode, Lauren.

1154
01:02:29,780 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 3: It sounds equivalent to the expression like you're jerking me around.

1155
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:33,980
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1156
01:02:34,020 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 3: You're kind of pointing me and you're just twisting me

1157
01:02:36,260 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 3: all around, but not just letting me go.

1158
01:02:38,380 --> 01:02:40,380
Speaker 2: Yeah. If you're wondering what in the heck we're talking

1159
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:43,150
Speaker 2: about here in that episode, we, somebody involved in this

1160
01:02:43,190 --> 01:02:46,550
Speaker 2: was connected to every which way, but loose the, the

1161
01:02:46,590 --> 01:02:50,450
Speaker 2: Clint Eastwood eight movie. And I mentioned that I had

1162
01:02:50,950 --> 01:02:53,410
Speaker 2: only just in that moment realized that the title of

1163
01:02:53,430 --> 01:02:56,450
Speaker 2: the film was not every which way, but lose. I just,

1164
01:02:57,420 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 2: That just made more sense in my head, and so

1165
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:02,030
Speaker 2: I always misread it as such, because I was thinking, oh,

1166
01:03:02,050 --> 01:03:05,030
Speaker 2: these guys are total winners. Every which way but lose,

1167
01:03:05,530 --> 01:03:07,930
Speaker 2: as opposed to loose, which made no sense to me.

1168
01:03:08,430 --> 01:03:10,250
Speaker 3: But if it had been that, wouldn't it have been

1169
01:03:10,270 --> 01:03:13,570
Speaker 3: but lose? I'm thinking of that grammatically. Wouldn't that be

1170
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:15,300
Speaker 3: every which way but losing?

1171
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:16,700
Speaker 2: I mean.

1172
01:03:16,740 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 3: It's kind of like saying every which way but fail.

1173
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:25,180
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it would have been grammatically incorrect,

1174
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:28,650
Speaker 2: but still... I guess would have worked as a title.

1175
01:03:28,710 --> 01:03:30,970
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's not a movie I've ever seen.

1176
01:03:30,990 --> 01:03:33,830
Speaker 2: So I had no additional context to interpret it. I

1177
01:03:33,870 --> 01:03:35,870
Speaker 2: just knew it had an ape in it and Clint Eastwood.

1178
01:03:37,430 --> 01:03:39,530
Speaker 3: Okay. Should we do one last message? This one from

1179
01:03:39,550 --> 01:03:42,230
Speaker 3: Aaron about in the mouth of madness, the dog star.

1180
01:03:42,410 --> 01:03:42,980
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a good one.

1181
01:03:43,350 --> 01:03:51,690
Speaker 3: Okay. Aaron says, hi, Robert and Joe. I wanted to

1182
01:03:51,730 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 3: share some thoughts that I hope you find interesting. I

1183
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 3: was very glad that you covered In the Mouth of

1184
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:59,590
Speaker 3: Madness for Weird House Cinema. I heard John Carpenter speak

1185
01:03:59,650 --> 01:04:03,390
Speaker 3: at San Diego Comic-Con, I believe in 2001. During the

1186
01:04:03,410 --> 01:04:06,390
Speaker 3: Q & A portion of his panel, he was asked

1187
01:04:06,490 --> 01:04:09,430
Speaker 3: if he was disappointed in any of his films. His

1188
01:04:09,470 --> 01:04:12,010
Speaker 3: response was something to the effect that he was disappointed

1189
01:04:12,890 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 3: that In the Mouth of Madness had not been more successful.

1190
01:04:16,580 --> 01:04:20,620
Speaker 3: That's confidence. The main thing is it wasn't successful enough.

1191
01:04:21,890 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 3: He went on to say that it was his tribute

1192
01:04:24,700 --> 01:04:27,300
Speaker 3: to H.P. Lovecraft, that he was proud of the film

1193
01:04:27,380 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 3: and wished more people would have seen it. I had

1194
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:32,980
Speaker 3: never heard of the film, which was quite surprising as

1195
01:04:33,060 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 3: I greatly enjoy much of Lovecraft's work. I quickly bought

1196
01:04:36,140 --> 01:04:38,130
Speaker 3: a DVD of the film. It's been a favorite of

1197
01:04:38,190 --> 01:04:41,270
Speaker 3: mine since. I thought your coverage did justice to the film.

1198
01:04:41,470 --> 01:04:44,770
Speaker 3: Thank you. On the subject of H.P. Lovecraft, he made

1199
01:04:44,890 --> 01:04:47,850
Speaker 3: reference to The Dog Star. This is a reference back

1200
01:04:47,870 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 3: to our episodes from earlier this summer about the dog days.

1201
01:04:52,130 --> 01:04:55,010
Speaker 3: He made reference to the dog star in his short story,

1202
01:04:55,130 --> 01:04:59,050
Speaker 3: The Festival, which was written in 1923 and published in

1203
01:04:59,090 --> 01:05:03,610
Speaker 3: the January 25 issue of Weird Tales. I also enjoyed

1204
01:05:03,650 --> 01:05:05,950
Speaker 3: your series on the dog days and death stars, and

1205
01:05:05,990 --> 01:05:09,250
Speaker 3: I thought I would share the passage from the story. Quote,

1206
01:05:09,890 --> 01:05:13,010
Speaker 3: We went out into the moonless and tortuous network of

1207
01:05:13,070 --> 01:05:16,750
Speaker 3: that incredibly ancient town. Went out as the lights in

1208
01:05:16,770 --> 01:05:20,930
Speaker 3: the curtained windows disappeared one by one. and the dog-star

1209
01:05:21,070 --> 01:05:24,910
Speaker 3: leered at the throng of cowled, cloaked figures that poured

1210
01:05:25,010 --> 01:05:29,710
Speaker 3: silently from every doorway and formed monstrous processions up this

1211
01:05:29,770 --> 01:05:33,970
Speaker 3: street and that, past the creaking signs and antediluvian gables,

1212
01:05:34,330 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 3: the thatched roofs and diamond-paned windows, threading precipitous lanes where

1213
01:05:39,580 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 3: decaying houses overlapped and crumbled together. gliding across open courts

1214
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:53,060
Speaker 3: and churchyards where the bobbing lanterns made eldritch drunken constellations. Yeah, yeah.

1215
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:56,340
Speaker 2: This is, in fact, the story I'm thinking of. This

1216
01:05:56,460 --> 01:06:00,290
Speaker 2: one has a really creepy conclusion with people removing their

1217
01:06:00,350 --> 01:06:04,890
Speaker 2: wax masks and vanishing into the underdark. It's also, if

1218
01:06:04,930 --> 01:06:12,300
Speaker 2: memory serves, the story that author Thomas Ligotti wrote was

1219
01:06:12,340 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 2: inspired by in writing the last feast of Harlequin, uh,

1220
01:06:15,580 --> 01:06:20,130
Speaker 2: which does a similar sort of tale except involving clowns and, uh,

1221
01:06:20,210 --> 01:06:22,950
Speaker 2: inhuman worm things. So, uh, yeah, both of those are pretty.

1222
01:06:23,010 --> 01:06:25,430
Speaker 3: Pretty fun. I've enjoyed some Ligotti, but I haven't read

1223
01:06:25,470 --> 01:06:25,830
Speaker 3: that one.

1224
01:06:26,130 --> 01:06:27,970
Speaker 2: Oh, it's, it's really good. Yeah. It's, it's, you know,

1225
01:06:28,270 --> 01:06:32,500
Speaker 2: I think clearly inspired by the festival. Uh, but, uh, yeah, yeah,

1226
01:06:32,540 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 2: quite good.

1227
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:37,270
Speaker 3: Uh, Aaron's message continues. Finally, I wanted to share a

1228
01:06:37,330 --> 01:06:40,890
Speaker 3: recommendation for Weird House Cinema. Please consider covering Hawk the

1229
01:06:40,930 --> 01:06:45,110
Speaker 3: Slayer from 1980. It's a fantasy film about Hawk, played

1230
01:06:45,150 --> 01:06:47,810
Speaker 3: by John Terry, who wields a magic sword in his

1231
01:06:47,850 --> 01:06:51,970
Speaker 3: struggles against Voltan, the Dark One, played by Jack Palance.

1232
01:06:52,670 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 3: Hawk has a supporting cast, including a giant, an elf,

1233
01:06:55,860 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 3: and a dwarf, who are all very different than I

1234
01:06:57,940 --> 01:07:01,050
Speaker 3: expected them to be. I found it a fun, if imperfect,

1235
01:07:01,110 --> 01:07:03,170
Speaker 3: film and know that your coverage of it for Weird

1236
01:07:03,190 --> 01:07:06,550
Speaker 3: House would undoubtedly be amazing. You are welcome to read

1237
01:07:06,590 --> 01:07:09,190
Speaker 3: this or parts of it in Listener Mail episodes if

1238
01:07:09,210 --> 01:07:12,110
Speaker 3: you wish. Yeah, for everybody listening, that is what is

1239
01:07:12,150 --> 01:07:14,810
Speaker 3: assumed unless you tell us otherwise. So please note in

1240
01:07:14,850 --> 01:07:16,930
Speaker 3: an email if you don't want us to read it

1241
01:07:17,010 --> 01:07:19,870
Speaker 3: on Listener Mail. And finally, Aaron says, thank you for

1242
01:07:19,910 --> 01:07:21,690
Speaker 3: taking the time to read it. Thank you for all

1243
01:07:21,710 --> 01:07:24,970
Speaker 3: your great content, especially the Halloween spooky season goodness, which

1244
01:07:25,030 --> 01:07:28,860
Speaker 3: always goes by too fast. Best, Aaron. Thank you, Aaron.

1245
01:07:29,860 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 2: You know, speaking of Lovecraft, John Terry was also in

1246
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 2: 1991's The Resurrected, directed by Dan O'Bannon. It's been a

1247
01:07:37,060 --> 01:07:39,100
Speaker 2: long time since I've seen that one, but I remember

1248
01:07:39,580 --> 01:07:41,930
Speaker 2: that being one. At one point, that was like my

1249
01:07:42,010 --> 01:07:46,930
Speaker 2: favorite cinematic adaptation of Lovecraft based on the case of

1250
01:07:46,970 --> 01:07:47,890
Speaker 2: Charles Dexter Ward.

1251
01:07:49,030 --> 01:07:49,620
Speaker 3: I haven't seen it.

1252
01:07:49,930 --> 01:07:51,850
Speaker 2: Yeah, good stuff. We may come back to it. It's

1253
01:07:51,930 --> 01:07:54,110
Speaker 2: on the list as a potential weird house at some

1254
01:07:54,130 --> 01:07:54,790
Speaker 2: point in the future.

1255
01:07:56,270 --> 01:07:59,170
Speaker 3: OK, well, I think that does it for this October's

1256
01:07:59,230 --> 01:08:01,230
Speaker 3: listener mail. But like I said at the beginning, we

1257
01:08:01,270 --> 01:08:04,630
Speaker 3: have a whole other batch of non-Halloween related listener mail

1258
01:08:04,650 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 3: that we're going to come back to and catch up

1259
01:08:06,580 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 3: on very soon, sometime in the next week or two.

1260
01:08:08,780 --> 01:08:11,740
Speaker 3: So stay tuned for that. And please keep writing in.

1261
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 3: Contact at StuffToBlowYourMind.com.

1262
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:18,050
Speaker 2: That's right. In the meantime, just a reminder that Stuff

1263
01:08:18,060 --> 01:08:20,010
Speaker 2: To Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and culture

1264
01:08:20,030 --> 01:08:23,480
Speaker 2: podcast with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Short form

1265
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 2: on Wednesday, and then on Fridays we set aside most

1266
01:08:25,380 --> 01:08:27,660
Speaker 2: serious concerns to just talk about a weird film on

1267
01:08:27,700 --> 01:08:28,460
Speaker 2: Weird House Cinema.

1268
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:32,219
Speaker 3: Huge thanks, as always, to our excellent audio producer, J.J.

1269
01:08:32,260 --> 01:08:32,700
Speaker 2: Posway.

1270
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:34,520
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1271
01:08:34,580 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1272
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:39,050
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hi

1273
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:43,150
Speaker 3: one more time, that email address is contact at stufftoblowyourmind.com.

1274
01:08:50,410 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a production of iHeartRadio.

1275
01:08:53,220 --> 01:08:56,570
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple

1276
01:08:56,590 --> 01:08:58,950
Speaker 1: Podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.