WEBVTT - Can Science Change The Stories We Grew Up With? Exploring Identity With Pete Wentz and Dr. Robert Green. 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.960 I'm Baritone Day Thurston and this is Spit and I 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:10.480 Heart Radio podcast with twenty three in me. This is 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.600 the podcast that explores how DNA is changing our lives 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:17.079 and the world around us. Today, we're delving deep into 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.800 that all important topic identity. Have always been like kind 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:22.840 of like on the Island of misfit toys, you know, 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:24.720 and then if I find out that I actually have 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:29.800 like a toy Home of the weird and we have 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:32.280 an amazing duel of guests to help chart our courts. 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:36.600 First off is the celebrated Basis songwriter and author Pete 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:40.760 Wentz and joining him as independent academic Dr Robert Green. 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.880 In addition to teaching genetics at Harvard Medical School, Dr 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:47.760 Green is the director of the G two P Research 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:51.680 Program at Brigham and Women's Hospital and the Broad Institute. Now, 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:55.040 today's show is gonna be a cliffhanger resources because Pete's 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.720 interested in finding out all about himself and his genetic makeup. 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:03.240 We're gonna have him spit, that is, take the DNA test, 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:05.680 and then in part two of the show, we'll check 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.120 back in with Pete right after he gets his results 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.600 to hear what he's learned. So gear up for some revelations, 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:16.039 some realizations, and some fun. We are going to talk 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:20.479 about genetics again through the story of discovering things about 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:23.720 ourselves and about health. And I want to start with you, Pete. 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.800 You have a fascinating background. We've all read Wikipedia and 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:29.680 understand some about you, but I'd love to know, first 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:33.280 of all, why are you interested in learning about yourself 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:37.080 from a genetic perspective? Like where do you well? I mean, 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.920 I think that it's interesting to know where you've come from. 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:42.959 I think particularly I have I have three kids, so 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:45.080 I think that that's you know, you want to pass 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:49.000 that information along in the form of either story or 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:51.720 medical or whatever. You know. Like, but I think that 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.120 for me being like a bit of like what I 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.040 would call like a kind of you know, it's like 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:59.520 it's pretty interesting because like, you know, my three kids 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.960 all have really light eyes. It's just an interesting you know, 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:05.600 Like I think the genetics are a really wild interesting thing. 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:09.200 Obviously I know some stories, but they're you know, stories, 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:11.120 so it's like hard is They're not scientific, you know, 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.960 so it's interesting. In the stories that you've been told, 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:17.560 did they call you a mutt or did you come 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:19.520 up with that term for yourself, Like no, no, no no, 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.399 I you know, I'm just not a sure bread. I'm 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:24.360 just not so like. No, no, no, I mean no 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:27.920 one's I don't think anyone's called me. Maybe I don't know, no, 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:29.760 but I mean it's just the suburbs that I grew 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:31.480 up in and stuff. I just didn't I didn't look 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.240 like anybody. I just didn't feel like I looked like 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:34.840 anybody kind of, you know, I just looked like my 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.720 brother and sister kind of. So that didn't like inform 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:39.400 a ton of my personality. I don't think. Maybe it did, 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:40.840 I don't know, but like, I think it would be 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:43.519 interesting to know since we have more of the technology 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:45.040 to be able to do it, Like why would you 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:47.720 not find out? It doesn't need to be like a 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:49.960 scary thing or super interesting thing, like you don't have 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:52.400 to be like have royal blood or something like. I mean, 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:54.320 it would all be nice. I guess, Robert, what do 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.799 you find in terms of people's reasons for even being 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:00.760 curious in asking this question? Pete is just he's interested. 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:03.560 He sounds really open minded. There's nothing he's afraid of. 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:05.560 It sounds like, but what are you seeing in terms 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:07.799 of the folks you work with, the studies you've done. Yeah, 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.440 a lot of people are interested in their ancestry and 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.800 their background, and a lot of people are interested in 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:15.639 the health aspects. And the people are interested in health 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.320 aspects are interested because they want to do something with it. 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.639 They want to inform their children, they want to inform themselves. 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:25.040 They want to be empowered by the notion that they 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.720 can learn something about the probability of getting an illness 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:29.880 in the future. And when you talk about and think 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:32.560 about your kids, thin any particular concerns or things that 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:34.440 excite you about what you might be able to share 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:36.760 with them, you know, through a process like this. I mean, 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:40.920 there's just like blind spots where my family has described 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:42.760 where we've come from. I don't really think I have 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.120 specific like medical concerns. I'm interested in finding out about it, 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:48.640 but I don't have There's nothing like that is discussed 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.680 in my family or you know, or common issues that 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:53.400 have come up you know, or whatever. But I'm still 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.600 interested in finding that out. I did my own genetic test, 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.120 and I also had a lot of blind spots in 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:01.440 my family story. I grew up just with my mother. 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:04.680 I didn't have access to my father's side or stories 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:08.560 of that. And I got really excited about the sort 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.040 of trait and wellness sections of the results because it 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:17.960 said I had high probability of like the musculature of 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:22.200 a competitive elite athlete. And I'm like, Okay, science says 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:24.280 I'm an elite athlete. That's great, Like I want to 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:26.680 run with that. I know you used to play soccer. 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.679 Are you like hoping for maybe there's a genetic support 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.200 for your talent in the sport. I can tell you 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:34.479 that there is not not need a genetic test to 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.159 see that one to find that one out. Yeah, yeah, 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.719 I think there's an inherent thing that like where there's 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.960 a probability of something. You're like, well, it says I 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.080 should be Michael Jordan's, but I'm not Michael Jordan's, So like, 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.080 how do I like resolve that discrepancy? You know what 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:52.599 I mean? Like it's like probably could be weird, I guess. Yeah. 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:55.000 And Pete, that's a great point about genetic testing in general, 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.159 that people are learning from this that it's not super 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.160 deterministic that just because you have a probability of having 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:03.120 a talent, or just because you have a probability of 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.920 having disease does not mean you're definitely going to get it. 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.160 That's sort of one of the psychological changes that these 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:12.560 services are promoting throughout the whole society. Here's what you 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:16.200 probably could get, you probably won't get it, And so 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.320 I'm like, so should I be worried? You know? On 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.200 the trade side, it's like, well, I don't look like that, 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.960 So am I wrong? Or is the science wrong? Right? Said, 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.520 I'm likely have like straighter hair and not very thick hair, 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:35.240 have super thick, wooly hair. So who's wrong here? Or 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:38.760 is that a probability thing? Like Robert helped me understand that, 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.480 Like Danny de Vito and Arnold Schwarzenegger, right, yeah, yeah, exactly, 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.400 this guys standing beside each other and twins. You just 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.159 gotta find your Arnold, you know. Wow, that's it. We 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:53.560 have to find our arm this episode. But that's exactly right. 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:56.880 You know, neither our citizenry nor our doctors think very 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:00.200 well about probability, so we tend to simplify and if 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.800 it's a probability, we see it should be that. But 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:06.039 of course a probability means just a probability, and that's 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:08.839 the change in genetics is happening over the last decade 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:11.800 or two. Is it removing from thinking about genetics in 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:16.200 terms of you will get this disease with the mutation too, Oh, 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.280 you have a slightly higher or a slightly lower probability 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.120 of getting something. You talked about the blind spots that 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.680 you have had. But Peter, there are things that are 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.440 well within the light that you know about your health 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:30.720 history or your family history in general, in terms of 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:35.480 the parts that make up this multi multicolor multi ethnic 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:38.240 spectrum that that you've brought to the table. Are there 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:40.280 things that I'm sure of? Yeah? Yeah, like what if? 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:42.640 What did you know? Well? I don't know that, Like 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.480 how sure you can be of any of it? Because 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:49.120 people create stories to either cover things up or create 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.800 stories when you don't have the information you know, and 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:55.240 then those stories kind of like become facts as they 0:06:55.360 --> 0:07:02.719 get passed along. My maternal grandpa was second generation Jamaican American. 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.920 His parents came here, but he has like light blue eyes. 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.960 There's like these stories of Portuguese Jews that like I 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:12.440 don't but I'm like, I don't know. It was like, 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.120 so that sounds like such a story you would make 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:16.840 up because you have light eyes or something. I don't know, 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:18.360 you know, I don't know. I'm not really sure. And 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.840 like Jamaica is maybe the only place that's as big 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.520 of a kind of melting pot as the United States 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:26.760 of America. So like who knows people were it was 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:28.880 like a report. People were coming from everywhere, you know, 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.440 So I don't really know, but it's it's be interesting 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.600 to find out or it's not interesting. Like it's like 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:37.000 I feel like everybody goes into these tests well that 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:38.680 I know who we're going into them. We're going into 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:41.200 them without saying that they're going into it for medical reason. 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.680 Everyone's like we've got Native American and you know, because 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:45.640 everybody wants to be more like you have a texture 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:47.440 and be more like no one wants to be like 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:51.480 just plane plane, you know what I mean. I mean, Robert, 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:55.840 it's probably like the one area where people think that 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:57.760 they don't want to be you know. Yeah, I mean 0:07:57.760 --> 0:07:59.440 the tests are what they come back and then like 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.360 I feel like every time I've seen one, I always 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:06.080 see like point something percent sub Saharan African for everybody. 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:07.760 I don't know, Like I guess it's just like the 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.440 cradle or some of it's interesting and some of it 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:12.960 maybe like we're a lot more similar than we are 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:16.360 probably that different, honestly, right, Yeah, Yeah, that's one of 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.240 the sort of most uplifting messages about genetics is how 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.200 much we share in common between each other and how 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.480 little is divided among us. I want to focus on 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:29.120 what you said, Pete, about what you know may not 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:31.360 be a fact. It could just be a story, and 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.920 it could be covering for something that we didn't know, 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.640 or creating something because we knew the opposite. And in 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:41.720 science and in what we understand about genetics, can you 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.880 talk about, Robert, how there's also stories there that we 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:48.320 get attached to that may not necessarily be factual. Sure, 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.160 you know that there has been a story in genetics 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:53.720 that came from the very first discoveries that were made 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:56.080 that if you have a certain mutation or change in 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:59.360 your DNA, you're gonna get that disease. And that's true 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:01.520 for a few diseases, and that kind of became our 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:03.800 mental story, and it got backed up by all these 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.200 cops shows, where you know, if you find the DNA 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.480 in the field, it definitely identifies the killer. I'm glad 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.680 we finally we're able to blame Hollywood, Thank you for 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:16.760 doing I will keep doing that because genetics isn't that way. 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:21.520 Most of genetics that we've really discovered has been probabilistic. 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.360 If you have this particular marker or the set of markers, 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.760 you're at a increased risk, sometimes a very small increased 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.839 risk for heart disease or cancer or something else. So 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:33.120 one of the confusing aspects of this is that there 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:36.720 will be markers like the b r c A markers 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:40.760 in some direct consumer geneic tests that do put you 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.880 at a dramatically increased risk, and then there's lots of 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.880 other markers that simply give you a little bit of 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.720 probabilistic information. One of my concerns is that we're getting 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.080 this information. We learned that we have this higher chance 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:58.400 of something horrible or just something interesting, but you know, 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:02.880 off of the plane path. But there are also other determinants, right, 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:06.480 Because if genetics alone are our destiny, what about the 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.720 air quality, what about our diet, what about how much 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.520 we go to soul cycle? And so how are we 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:18.400 supposed to balance what we have control over versus you know, 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:21.120 what we were born with. Again, a very small proportion 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:22.920 that people are going to have some kind of mutation 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:26.720 that really dramatically increases their chances. But for most of 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:30.600 us heart disease, cancer, diabetes, they are way more dependent 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:34.240 on your lifestyle. They're way more dependent on your weight, 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.200 your exercise, whether or not you smoke or not, things 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:40.800 like that. How's your lifestyle? Um, you know, I have 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.760 a certain assumption about your your world in in terms 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.839 of the lifestyle that's really really unhealthy. But maybe yours 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.679 is healthy. Well, I have three kids, so don't sleep ever, right. 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:56.599 I think that like the rock and roll excess lifestyle, 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.400 this generation of musicians, at least we saw we were 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.440 like raised watching behind the music. You're just like, oh, 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:05.079 well that's how that one ends, you know whatever. I 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.920 don't know we do we were never really like that band, 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:09.640 you know or whatever. Yeah, I mean, I don't think 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:11.840 my lifestyle is like I worked out before I came 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:13.319 here today, you know. I mean I don't. I don't 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.240 think it's it's actually a requirement anyone who does this show. 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.120 You have to exercise before you come into the studio. 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:22.559 I don't smoke a drink. I don't do drugs. Sounds good, yeah, 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:30.440 probably probably okay, probably this episode probably with dr Green, 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.320 You're probably all right, So when you get your director 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:35.720 consumer jack testing, it's probably not going to show you 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:39.200 anything extremely scary. How do how do you think about 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:42.840 Pete sharing these results in terms of how it changes 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.760 your story within your family, for those you came from 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.120 and for those you've helped create, or how it affects 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:49.480 you know, what you put out into the world in 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:53.400 terms of authorship, music, lyrics, etcetera. I think it's really 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:57.560 good as far as like sharing with my kids and 0:11:57.600 --> 0:11:59.920 my family. I don't know about you know, sharing what 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:01.840 you share with the world. I think that like it 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.719 or not, people like alter the way they think when 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:08.200 they have preconceived ideas. You know. It's just it's an 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:12.679 interesting thing. I think that's really specific too. Somebody who 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:14.720 just kind of doesn't really fit in anywhere that like 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.360 the minute you put out where you do fit in. 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:19.480 I guess when you find that out, then people are like, oh, 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:21.280 I had a pegged right the whole time, you know, 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:24.000 or whatever. Whereas when you're just like, well, I've never 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:26.000 never been really part of any community, you know, it's 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:27.880 like a little weird to like think that you might 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:29.960 be a part of one or something. You know, like 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:31.840 I've always been like kind of like on the island 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.080 of misfit toys, you know, and then if I find 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.800 out that I actually have like a toy home, you know, 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.000 I'd be weird. I guess it's to home. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:44.400 you might be adopted by some other communities. When when 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:48.440 you doc are thinking about people sharing their information, you know, 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:52.280 the idea of privacy and control over our genetic information 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.480 is a hot topic. It feels like it's complicated. What 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.720 are some of the outlines and contours of that decision. 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.280 It's a huge area for all the reasons you mentioned. 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:04.640 We have a study going on now where we're sequencing 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.640 newborn babies, and when we approach the parents in the 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:09.719 hospital of newborn babies and say hey, would you want 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.960 your infant sequenced, about eight or of them say no. 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.000 And the biggest reason they say no is concerns about 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:19.600 privacy and discrimination for those babies, because we just don't 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:23.080 have it down yet to protect those babies or any 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:27.560 of us from intrusion, from hacking, from possibility of discrimination. 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.199 So it's a big issue. It needs to be solved. 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.280 M Having said that, I think that genetics is just 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:38.080 growing faster and better, and I do believe that eventually 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:42.400 the benefits are going to outweigh these concerns for many people. 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.439 So I'm bullish on genetics, but it's a huge it's 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.520 a huge and realistic concern. Kind of sucks that people 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:54.000 discriminating against babies didn't it right, Yeah, babies. All babies 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.600 are kind of great. They are. There's I mean, I've 0:13:56.640 --> 0:14:00.160 met maybe three I didn't like, but that's out a hundreds, 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.800 Like it's a really low ratio. Most babies are great. 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.400 You've met my three children. It's all kind of like 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.040 a get movie gatica, you know what I mean a 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.040 little bit because the one guy like has none of 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.760 the right stuff, but like just has something inside of 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.679 him that just drives him to like swim across the lake. 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.160 Or the secret is that I never saved anything for 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.720 swimming back exactly, which is great. That's like such a 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.240 good line that. Yeah, so clearly he did have the 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.240 right stuff. Maybe the test didn't reveal it. Is there 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.480 an example, Pete from not from the genetic side. But 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:33.520 what I read about you, and I'd love you to 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:37.400 correct me if I'm wrong, is that you chose music 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:39.720 in part because it felt like more of a challenge, 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.120 you know, in your younger years, versus some of the 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.080 sports and other activities you were doing. First of all, 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:45.920 can you fact check me? Is that sure? Yeah? I 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.840 think that's kind of true. Yeah, that's true. I mean 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:50.840 it's like a feeling, so it's hard to be like 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.160 really factual. But I'm sitting here right now I can 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.680 say that I felt it felt true. And how would 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.160 you describe your persistence in music? Like you've been in 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.520 this industry, I think longer an average. You've evolved through it, 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:03.720 You've done a bunch of other things, but you still 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.760 making music right. Well, I mean I think that it's 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:11.200 anyone when you find something that you're passionate about that 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.560 goes beyond hobbyists, you know, because there's plenty off I 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:15.520 have like zilion hobbyists, you know, or whatever, but there's 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:17.280 something that like you're actually like people are like, oh, 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.400 they refer tun as like your career or whatever. You know. 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:21.720 Like the way I think that at least I'm set 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:23.600 up as a human is like I'm like, well, this 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:25.880 is the path that I'm on, and I can bend 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:27.840 this path around different ways and stuff, but I'm on 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.920 like a basic kind of path. Yeah, so I think 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:33.320 that that's probably what what it's been. And I think 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:35.760 as far as like the lenitivity is like this is 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.440 so not part of the genetic desk or whatever. But 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:40.800 it's like the people that I've you know, surrounded myself 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.200 with who are like really helpful and good support network 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.800 and help me keep me accountable, but inspire me that 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.400 kind of thing. You know, how would you describe what 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.600 you're up to in music right now versus what you 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:56.080 might have been doing twenty years ago, ten twenty years ago, 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.360 Like if someone was like music will being like this 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:00.600 cloud or whatever, you know, it's just like this stickle things, 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:02.680 you know. So it's just the way people consume music 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:04.600 is so different, you know, like my nine year old 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.440 listens to songs, listened to a little oozy and then 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:09.360 listen to like a Queen song and then like people 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:11.560 can curate their own lives now, you know. And so 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.200 I think music is more important than it has ever been, 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.160 you know, because to borrow an idea that my friend 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.640 Evan said, like, no one goes like, you know, I'm 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.520 feeling the saddest I've ever felt. Let me like open 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.240 an app right now, you know, whatever, Like everybody listens 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.720 to music. You can set your watch two different things 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:32.480 you've done in your life and the way songs have 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.200 made you feel. And in the nineties you're listening to 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.240 like Wu Tang or what you know, like whatever it is, 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:41.040 like musical markers and and and like for sure you 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:42.480 like go back and listen to a lot of that 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:44.000 music and some of it doesn't hold up and some 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:46.000 of it does. And so I think it's it's just 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.840 how people take in music and how people take in 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.880 entertainment now is just very different than it was when 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.680 we started. And it's kind of interesting to be a band. 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:57.720 It was part of the tail end of like this 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.360 other version of it, you know, and then was at 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.440 the start of the new version of it. And I 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.920 think the chasm has never been wider between artists. There's 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.120 these all these artists that like if you only kind 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:12.720 of pay attention to mainstream culture, you probably don't really 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.840 know about them. But they're like massive, you know what 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.639 I mean, And they're like just under the surface, and 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.280 I think that people like listen to them and interact 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.160 with them in ways that people probably aren't really paying 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.760 attention to. Well, you know, there's a kind of a parallel. 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.040 I hope it's not too much of a stretch in 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.439 science and in the genetics world, because many people see 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:35.520 what we're talking about today direct to consumer genetics, the 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:40.240 democratization of certain markers as the gateway to a whole 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:45.960 new world of bio hacking, of evolving ourselves. People compare 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.800 this to the electronic revolution. And then the same way 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.000 that we couldn't imagine carrying around all this music from 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.399 the cloud in our pockets, people are talking about how 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:00.080 everything we do will be interacting with our biology, with 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.120 our genetics, with our other Oh mix are proteo mix, 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:07.320 our transcripto mix, our metabolo mix are microbiomics. And this 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:13.439 kind of big data, big biology future is perhaps presaged 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.920 in some ways by what you're describingload your consciousness, right, 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.080 just like I was reading about that the other day, 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:25.200 Wild Wild, Yeah, No, I thank you for seeing that connection. 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:27.320 I don't think it's a big stretch at all. I 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.320 think what we saw happen with music was an early 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.520 marker of what we're seeing happen to everything else, from 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:37.400 finance to personal health. The same way that I'm discovering 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:41.280 new music because of my pattern of interaction with the 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.160 music I've known. I may discover new parts of myself 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.560 through genetics because of my pattern of interaction, you know, 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.000 with the environment around me over time. Think the idea 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.960 of a personal genetics playlist just occurred to me. Pete, 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:55.000 you're gonna think this has nothing to do with genetics. 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:58.280 How have the stories of you that you grew up 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.080 with that you've learned influenced music you've been making. I'm 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.639 not sure that like particular stories have influenced it, but 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:06.439 I do think that it's a weird thing where like 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:08.800 when you feel like you're not really like part of 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:10.960 a tribe, it makes it easier for you to set 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:12.800 your own course. I think, you know, in some ways, 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.240 like I remember reading the Gladwell book where he talks 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:18.439 about like the people who are the near misses. So 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.600 like when the bombings happened in London, I'm talking in 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:26.080 World War two, Yeah, the blitz that the people that 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.720 were blown up obviously they had one path and then 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.640 the people who were far away from the bombings were 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.520 completely terrified. But the people that were like the near 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:39.119 misses were fortified and because of that they like, we're like, no, 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:41.600 we're staying here and it does something. And I think 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.320 that maybe not just feeling like you're part of a thing, 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:47.880 like it just makes it so your destiny in your 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:49.760 head can be whatever it is, and if you fail, 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:51.440 it doesn't really matter because you weren't you just never 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:53.560 had something. You really weren't supposed to be an investment 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:55.719 banker or whatever. Yeah, you know, so like it for 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:57.640 me personally, it sent me up in a way where 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.320