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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome back.

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Speaker 2: It's the latest episode of the Book of Joe Podcasts

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Speaker 2: with me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe, it

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Speaker 2: seems like we talk a lot about show Hey O'tani

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Speaker 2: on this podcast, and why not?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: I mean, listen, we knew coming to this season he

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Speaker 2: was going to be the story of the year, signing

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Speaker 2: a huge free agent contract with the Dodgers, and now

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Speaker 2: we're two weeks into quote unquote the scandal, the betting scandal,

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Speaker 2: and I'm really curious to get your take here, Joe,

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Speaker 2: because there's been a lot of misinformation out there, and

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Speaker 2: I say a lot of cynicism, and I personally have

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Speaker 2: always preferred to be called naive more than cynical. And

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Speaker 2: I think the way that the nature of our culture

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Speaker 2: is right now, people immediately go to cynicism. So my

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Speaker 2: take on sho Ha's situation here with his trainer and interpreter,

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Speaker 2: Ibe Misuhara, is, if you want to believe the conspiracy theories,

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Speaker 2: you have to ignore the facts that are in front

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Speaker 2: of us right now. The version of sho he Otani

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Speaker 2: on the record right now and while inviting federal authorities

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Speaker 2: to back them up. Is that he knew nothing about

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Speaker 2: the transfer of money to an illegal bookmaker in southern California.

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Speaker 2: The latest version from epe himself is that sho Hey

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Speaker 2: knew nothing about the transfer of money. So to cling

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Speaker 2: to the idea that there's something more nefarious going on here,

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Speaker 2: you have to go back to the original version that

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Speaker 2: Ipe first told and has since backed away from himself.

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Speaker 2: I think that requires a little bit of mental gymnastics.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying there's not some unanswered questions here. That's

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Speaker 2: what investigations are for. But real quick, Joe, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I really want to get your thoughts on this. And

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Speaker 2: the position to me that sho He has staked out

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Speaker 2: here is unequivocal. He is a massive he's a victim

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Speaker 2: of a what he calls a massive theft, and that

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Speaker 2: Epey stole money from him in his words and told lies.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's a position that doesn't require a

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Speaker 2: lot of wiggle room. It doesn't mean I was kind

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Speaker 2: of misled or miscommunication. He is taking the ground here

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Speaker 2: that he knew nothing about it. So that's what we

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Speaker 2: have to go by right now. Your take on show

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Speaker 2: Hay involvement here, Yeah, I.

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Speaker 3: Mean you know, I've read everything. I've heard everything that

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Speaker 3: you're described right there, and again I've said it early

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Speaker 3: on that knowing these two guys working with these these

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Speaker 3: two fellows, man, I mean I came. I was like, so,

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Speaker 3: I was so upset when I heard all that news

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Speaker 3: because I just did not you don't want to believe it,

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Speaker 3: and it's not yet if you knew the guys, It's like,

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Speaker 3: how did that happen? I mean, this is such a

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Speaker 3: It was Batman and Robbin, Peanut Butter and Jelly, all

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Speaker 3: those things. These guys were that close from my perception,

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Speaker 3: and that one would know exactly what the other is

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Speaker 3: doing at all times. To think that epay would in

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Speaker 3: a nefarious way go against show it, it doesn't make

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Speaker 3: any sense. So that was my biggest problem with all that. Now,

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Speaker 3: having said all that, then how do you account for

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Speaker 3: all the different things that had been done and the money,

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Speaker 3: the betting and paying, the payoff whatever. My biggest thing

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Speaker 3: is And I saw the press conference which show and yeah,

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Speaker 3: I believe them, absolutely believe them. Oh, and I guess

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Speaker 3: I believe the entire story. If I have to say

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Speaker 3: all the way through. But I think what's missing is

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Speaker 3: as opposed to just reading a statement like Show did,

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Speaker 3: maybe if he was just able to answer questions specifically

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Speaker 3: in front of a group with his interpreter, the nude

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Speaker 3: guy whoever that might be, just to answer the question

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Speaker 3: straight up. I think that is the best way of

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Speaker 3: just having this go away. It's not unlike what I've

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Speaker 3: talked to you about this before, my Jack Ryan method

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Speaker 3: after a ballgame. Jack Ryan and the protagonist and the

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Speaker 3: Clancy novels always advised the president to just to never

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Speaker 3: spin it. Just say it. And I'm not saying Show

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Speaker 3: is spinning it. Just say it. I give the questions asked,

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Speaker 3: just give the answer, and that goes away much more quickly.

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Speaker 3: So from what all I've seen and read and heard,

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Speaker 3: I think the one thing that bothers those and creates

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Speaker 3: the skepticism and and and all this other intrigue is

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Speaker 3: the fact that there has been like a straight up

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Speaker 3: question and answer session which Show, whereas it's just been

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Speaker 3: a statement. So I think to make it go away quickly,

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Speaker 3: I would if I was him and Nez, I would

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Speaker 3: just have a press conference. I know it's going to be.

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Speaker 3: It would be crazy and no would be nuts, or

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Speaker 3: maybe just have a limited number of reporters in the room. Whatever,

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Speaker 3: but just ask questions and answer the questions. I think

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Speaker 3: that would be the best way to satiate the media

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Speaker 3: on that side and then the uncontroled social media on

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Speaker 3: the other.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're right about that. I mean transparency. That's always

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Speaker 2: the best disinfectant. As they say, sunshine is the best disinfectant,

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Speaker 2: don't run from it. I like your Jack Clancy method there. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: he's under the advisement of either crisis management people, lawyers

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Speaker 2: and noor Nez, so it's not entirely his decision. I

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Speaker 2: get that right, But again, I think we're looking at

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Speaker 2: someone we have to look at differently. And I know

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Speaker 2: a lot of people say, well, how could he not

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Speaker 2: know that all this money was taken out of there?

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Speaker 1: Think about this.

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Speaker 2: He's been friends with Epey since he termed professional in

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Speaker 2: Japan show he did and I think it was at

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Speaker 2: the year but when he was eighteen years old, so

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Speaker 2: he's known him for more than a decade. If you

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Speaker 2: saw one, as you said, Joe, you saw the other

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Speaker 2: peanut butter and jelly, right, he's more than an interpreter.

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Speaker 1: He's a training partner.

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Speaker 2: He keeps track of every baseball that shoe Hey throws,

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Speaker 2: every weight that he lifts, you name it. They hang

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Speaker 2: out together off the field, They eat dinner together, they

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Speaker 2: drive back and forth to the ballpark together. This is

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Speaker 2: a very close friendship that to me borders on brotherhood.

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Speaker 2: They're that close. So think about someone you have known

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Speaker 2: for more than a decade, and you would never suspect

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Speaker 2: that that person somehow could go around your back and

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Speaker 2: steal money or do anything for that matter, that you

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Speaker 2: didn't know about. But it's possible when you trust someone

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Speaker 2: to that extent. Secondly, show Hey is I want to

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Speaker 2: say this in great respect, he's someone who money is

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Speaker 2: really not that important to him. We knew that in

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Speaker 2: Japan when as rookies with the Fighters, you have to

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Speaker 2: stay in the team dorm. Even after his rookie season,

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Speaker 2: he decided to stay in the team dorm, sending money

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Speaker 2: home to his parents. He lives a very frugal life.

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Speaker 2: He came over here as a free agent under the

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Speaker 2: age of twenty five, which limited his bargaining power cost

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Speaker 2: him probably two hundred million dollars Because he just wanted

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Speaker 2: to play Major League Baseball and the money was not

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Speaker 2: that important to him. It's entirely plausible to me that

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Speaker 2: someone could have access to his account or somehow mislead

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Speaker 2: him to divert funds to another account and he wasn't

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Speaker 2: aware of that. I fully believe sho hey Otani's story. Now,

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Speaker 2: as far as the investigation goes Joe, major League Baseball

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Speaker 2: is looking into this. They have to look into this, right,

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Speaker 2: but they're limited. They don't have subpoena power. You know,

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Speaker 2: they can't get a hold of the documents that the

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Speaker 2: IRS can. There's a Department of Justice and IRS investigation

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Speaker 2: going on here. They have much more power in terms

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Speaker 2: of accessing people and documents than MLB has. MLB basically

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Speaker 2: has to get show Hey on the record. That's what

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Speaker 2: it comes down to to have his complete version of

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Speaker 2: the story. What you're talking about Joe in terms of

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Speaker 2: answering questions that's going to come when he sits down

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Speaker 2: in front of Major League Baseball investigators. I think, as

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Speaker 2: a player in the game, he must sit down with

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Speaker 2: MLB and cooperate here. I don't think he will refuse

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Speaker 2: to cooperate at all. I think he wants his story

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Speaker 2: told he's invited people to look into this, so Major

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Speaker 2: League Baseball will take care of that. I don't think

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Speaker 2: his story is going to differentiate at all. He's going

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Speaker 2: to still say that he was victim, knew nothing about

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Speaker 2: what was transpiring here.

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Speaker 1: And as far as Epay.

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Speaker 2: Goes with MLB, you know, he's no longer an employee

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Speaker 2: of Major League Baseball, so they don't have jurisdiction over

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Speaker 2: him right now. Now, he is clearly in violation of

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Speaker 2: Rule twenty one, where he actually placed bets with an

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Speaker 2: illegal bookmaker. The penalty for that, according to MLB rules,

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Speaker 2: is your subject to a fine by the commissioner.

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Speaker 1: That's it.

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Speaker 2: There's no suspension involved there. The commissioner has the power

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Speaker 2: to deploy any kind of fine he thinks is proper here.

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Speaker 1: But again, Epay no longer works for the Dodgers.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if Major League Baseball wants to go

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Speaker 2: down that road, but as far as Major League Baseball's

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Speaker 2: investigation goes, it's going to take a back seat to

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Speaker 2: what the feds are doing here. I do expect some

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Speaker 2: point show Hey will sit down with MLB. I don't

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Speaker 2: think his story is going to change materially at all,

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Speaker 2: And I really think that right now, I think you

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Speaker 2: have to believe the story that Shohey is telling. I

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Speaker 2: don't think there's a trojan horse here. I don't think

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Speaker 2: he's hiding anything.

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Speaker 3: I agree, I do believe he didn't know. I do

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Speaker 3: believe that. I think with the level of trust that

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Speaker 3: existed between those two guys, I could easily see that

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Speaker 3: Show completely trusted Epay to handle all that stuff, checking account,

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Speaker 3: paying bills, whatever that might be, credit cards, all that stuff,

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Speaker 3: just like show Hey really did not need or cared

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Speaker 3: about the transfer of money, as you suggested. I absolutely

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Speaker 3: believe that he really does work from a level of

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Speaker 3: pure intentions. Show does he is for me like pure

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Speaker 3: fresh fall and snow. I mean, this guy really is

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Speaker 3: that there's a nieva tae about him that he's always

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Speaker 3: catching up in regards to everything that's going on here.

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Speaker 3: And I have no idea to what level he's not

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Speaker 3: even considered somewhat na even Japan, because his whole life

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Speaker 3: has been centered around the baseball, A baseball, a ball

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Speaker 3: as far as I can tell. So yeah, all that

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Speaker 3: stuff is believable, him not knowing. I do believe what

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Speaker 3: he says, and my only point is that to get

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Speaker 3: everybody else to believe what he says, just to answer

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Speaker 3: questions directly to others, suggested it's going to happen in

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Speaker 3: some different format. But that's it. And I love the

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Speaker 3: term illegal bookmaker. The fact that there's legal any legal

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Speaker 3: book makers these days, that's outstanding.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's rotten luck for EPAY in California that

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Speaker 2: are one of only twelve states that sports betting is

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Speaker 2: not legal.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And we are bombarded with sports betting advertisements throughout this

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Speaker 2: American culture, and it's easy for I think anyone to

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Speaker 2: just blur that line between one state where it's legal

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Speaker 2: and one state that it's not.

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Speaker 1: I'm not giving up a pass, believe me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But as long as you brought that up, Joe, let's

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Speaker 2: go back to the origin of this miss You were

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Speaker 2: manager of the Angels, and apparently Epay first met this

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Speaker 2: bookmaker in southern California, Matthew Boyer in San Diego. Now,

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Speaker 2: the Angels played in San Diego a two game series

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Speaker 2: in September of twenty twenty one. The second game was

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Speaker 2: a five o'clock game, a getaway game to took a

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Speaker 2: flight to Houston, so I'm assuming this occurred after the

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Speaker 2: first game of that series, where Epe sits in a

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Speaker 2: poker game. Apparently he met someone at the hotel lobby

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Speaker 2: who mentioned, hey, you should get in on this kind

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Speaker 2: of a game because they were talking about sports betting action.

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Speaker 1: That's the connection.

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Speaker 2: And apparently David Fletcher, of all people, is involved too

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Speaker 2: in terms of his poker game.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Joe, when you heard these.

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Speaker 2: Things that you know this is going on in illegal

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Speaker 2: poker game and you're on the road in San Diego,

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Speaker 2: give me your thoughts about that, especially as it relates

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Speaker 2: to the EPAY.

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Speaker 3: I never and I didn't realize that David's name had

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Speaker 3: been mentioned. Yeah, I mean, I know the guys like

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Speaker 3: to play cards at night, but they play video games,

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Speaker 3: they play all kinds of things. That's part of their entertainment. Well,

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Speaker 3: nobody goes out anymore. Nobody sits at a bar and

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Speaker 3: has a couple of pops and goes up to the

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Speaker 3: room at two thirty three o'clock in the morning anywhere.

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Speaker 3: That just doesn't happen. It's the culture now, is too.

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Speaker 3: For a lot of these guys. They'll they'll bring the

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Speaker 3: walk onto the earth playing with these really big boxes

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Speaker 3: of video game equipment, and they'll they'll gather at some

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Speaker 3: guy's room that night after the game and play video games.

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Speaker 3: So when I hear about a card game, I'm thinking, okay,

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Speaker 3: it's kind of the same thing. I know they're gambling.

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Speaker 3: I mean happens on back of airplanes, since I could remember,

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Speaker 3: in some pretty heavy, heavy card games and backup planes

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Speaker 3: since I could remember. So that's all common knowledge. So

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Speaker 3: when you hear things like that, I never I would

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Speaker 3: never have thought it in an illegal sense. As you

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Speaker 3: said right there, I didn't even realize that illegal gambling

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Speaker 3: in California as opposed to other states was I don't

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Speaker 3: know how many people are aware of that. I raised

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Speaker 3: my hand. I would not be aware of that, just

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Speaker 3: as you know pot being legal in some states and

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Speaker 3: illegal in others. I mean, who knows. Those are the

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Speaker 3: kind of things, And you cannot claim ignorance. I understand that.

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Speaker 3: That's really I've tried that several times with being stopped

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Speaker 3: by a cop on the road, but you can't plead

256
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Speaker 3: hiit Grids, I didn't see whatever. That's just how this

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Speaker 3: this whole thing evolves. But yeah, from my experience, the

258
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Speaker 3: life after the game has changed dramatically, and a big

259
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Speaker 3: part of the change has been cell phones and cameras.

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Speaker 3: Guys prefer being isolated, and you don't want to go

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Speaker 3: out where you could be photographed, not doing anything wrong,

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Speaker 3: just to it just looks weird or awkward when you're

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Speaker 3: set up in a way with the frame then the picture,

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Speaker 3: and you don't want You don't want that or the

265
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Speaker 3: chance to be set up again, even through conversations whatever.

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Speaker 3: So the post game life after the game, which quite

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Speaker 3: frankly used to really enjoy going to the bar, me

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Speaker 3: and Buddy Black whomever. Game over, You come back, you

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Speaker 3: put your backpack down, you go out and have a

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Speaker 3: couple of beers, come back and you laugh a lot,

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Speaker 3: and there was a lot of bonding that went on

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Speaker 3: with that. So I think the bonding method now is

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Speaker 3: more video games, which I'm really not a fan of.

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Speaker 3: I don't quite get it. But you can't take a

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Speaker 3: pinball machine on the road. So it's just a cultural

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Speaker 3: difference and that's it. So I don't think anything. I

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Speaker 3: never thought anything illegal or sinister about it. I just

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Speaker 3: thought it was a different way of gathering.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm laughing because you brought me back to my

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Speaker 2: days covering the Yankees and Billy Martin. I remember when

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Speaker 2: he was named manager, and one of my good friends,

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Speaker 2: the late Mike mclary said, you're about to hang out

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Speaker 2: in bars more than you ever have in your life.

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Speaker 2: And every game was like covering a doubleheader. You had

285
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Speaker 2: to cover the game, obviously, and then after the game

286
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Speaker 2: you had to go to the hotel bar to sit

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Speaker 2: with Billy Martin. First of all, if you didn't, you know,

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Speaker 2: he thought less highly of you and would never share

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Speaker 2: any information with you. And second of all it was

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Speaker 2: a competitive thing. Billy would tell you everything that was

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Speaker 2: going on, you know, for a few pops of course.

292
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Speaker 2: And then of course the third part was he never

293
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Speaker 2: knew if he was going to get in a fight

294
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Speaker 2: or not. So covering the bars, the hotel bars was

295
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Speaker 2: David Gerr when it came to being on the Yankee

296
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Speaker 2: beat with Billy Martin. So I'm not advocating those days, folks,

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Speaker 2: but yes, you make a great point, Joe, that it

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Speaker 2: is an entirely different culture. It began with the as

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Speaker 2: you mentioned, cell phone cameras, where guys just wanted to

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Speaker 2: be out literally out of camera range. And whatever they

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Speaker 2: do now is basically they'll do on their own behind

302
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Speaker 2: closed doors. That the idea of guys hanging out together

303
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Speaker 2: in hotel bars or any bar after a game, nothing

304
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Speaker 2: like what it was twenty years ago.

305
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Speaker 3: No, it was. It was a part of the culture.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I'll argue with people, it was great.

307
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Speaker 3: It was great. We had a great time with all that.

308
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Speaker 3: And now you see again, everybody's hiding all the time.

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Speaker 3: Nobody communicates face to face anymore. Everybody's always looking for

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Speaker 3: a culture to be created on a team, camaraderie, all

311
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Speaker 3: those those different kind of unifying words. A great place

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Speaker 3: to do that was after the game. It really was,

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Speaker 3: especially like you've had a bad day, right, we had

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Speaker 3: a bad day. I remember sitting on the portico and

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Speaker 3: Thevanoi Hotel in Tampa Bay and Tampa and Saint Pete

316
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Speaker 3: after a tough Angels loss, and I'm out there with

317
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Speaker 3: the bullpen guys Percy and Brendan Donnelly, and you know this,

318
00:15:49,638 --> 00:15:53,118
Speaker 3: this conversation gets lively because these guys sometimes need a

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Speaker 3: chance to vent, and sometimes as they're venting, you got

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Speaker 3: to tell them the truth back, because nobody always wants

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Speaker 3: to hear the truth. So there was there was great.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I've got other players I would as a

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Speaker 3: bench coach, I would take kind of under my wing

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Speaker 3: and I'd go out with them because I know I

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Speaker 3: could have a conversation with them under those circumstances away

326
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Speaker 3: from the ballpark that might be more impactful than attempting

327
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Speaker 3: to always have these conversations in uniform and a concrete

328
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Speaker 3: bunker with everybody else around. Very stressful kind of a

329
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Speaker 3: situation as opposed to a real life moment. It's true,

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Speaker 3: I'll argue that with anybody. So the way we communicate

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Speaker 3: any more in regards to socializing, I'm not a big fan.

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Speaker 3: I like face to face. I like talking to people.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to do all my communicating through thumbs.

334
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Speaker 3: The cell phone, after all, is really not a phone

335
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Speaker 3: primarily primarily it's almost like the Star Trek thing. And

336
00:16:47,918 --> 00:16:50,918
Speaker 3: it's solved well, actually they did talk on theirs. This

337
00:16:50,958 --> 00:16:54,558
Speaker 3: is more thumbs and messages and using your device for

338
00:16:54,638 --> 00:16:58,518
Speaker 3: other things other than actually a phone to communicate with.

339
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Speaker 3: So I could go on and on about that, even

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Speaker 3: Lafay at college, I've talked to the former president. As

341
00:17:04,478 --> 00:17:07,598
Speaker 3: Alison Byerley, I wanted to do events down there at

342
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Speaker 3: my fraternity house. She loved the idea because I was

343
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Speaker 3: trying to get kids out of their dorm rooms. Nobody socializes,

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Speaker 3: I'm here to tell you, man, I loved that Thursday

345
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Speaker 3: night kaegar at Lafayette. Going from one frat to the

346
00:17:20,558 --> 00:17:23,238
Speaker 3: other was outstanding. I'll argue with that with anybody again.

347
00:17:23,478 --> 00:17:26,158
Speaker 3: Everybody's like, we've all gotten to the point we're afraid

348
00:17:26,158 --> 00:17:27,838
Speaker 3: to state what we believe in or what the truth

349
00:17:27,918 --> 00:17:31,118
Speaker 3: is because you have to hide behind the potential of

350
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Speaker 3: being attacked by somebody that disagrees with and then a

351
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Speaker 3: lot of times they'll find allies and all of a

352
00:17:36,558 --> 00:17:39,278
Speaker 3: sudden you become a bad person. But it was a

353
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Speaker 3: good way to grow up and it was a great

354
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Speaker 3: way to socialize. It was a great way to create

355
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Speaker 3: your own skills in regards to socialization and communication. I

356
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Speaker 3: miss it.

357
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Speaker 1: It's a great point, Joe. There's no replacement.

358
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Speaker 2: Everything's an approximation, but there's no replacement for direct interpersonal connections.

359
00:17:55,278 --> 00:17:57,278
Speaker 2: And the more we get back to that, the better.

360
00:17:57,718 --> 00:17:59,638
Speaker 2: And it reminds me of the first time I went

361
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Speaker 2: back to Penn State. When my son went to Penn State,

362
00:18:03,238 --> 00:18:06,878
Speaker 2: I noticed all the students were walking around with their

363
00:18:06,918 --> 00:18:09,998
Speaker 2: heads turned down looking at their phones. There's just one

364
00:18:10,038 --> 00:18:13,718
Speaker 2: phone's really became ubiquitous, and the world is going past

365
00:18:13,758 --> 00:18:16,598
Speaker 2: them and they don't see it. They're out and about

366
00:18:16,598 --> 00:18:18,878
Speaker 2: in the world, and yet everybody's head is down, They're

367
00:18:18,878 --> 00:18:22,158
Speaker 2: not noticing anything. That just the physics of that, the

368
00:18:22,158 --> 00:18:24,518
Speaker 2: physical nature of that, really struck me at that time,

369
00:18:24,598 --> 00:18:27,598
Speaker 2: that the life is really passing you by while you're

370
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Speaker 2: looking down at a virtual world on your phone, and

371
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Speaker 2: it's only gotten stronger since then.

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Speaker 3: I love that point. One more thing. If you go

373
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Speaker 3: to Lafayette, visit SATASCI Fraternity, to go down to the

374
00:18:36,798 --> 00:18:40,518
Speaker 3: basement to the barroom post World series on a black

375
00:18:40,518 --> 00:18:43,518
Speaker 3: wall and big with a spray can of gold paint.

376
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Speaker 3: You will see in large letters, try not to suck

377
00:18:46,638 --> 00:18:48,238
Speaker 3: with twenty sixteen on it.

378
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Speaker 1: Very cool, very cool.

379
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Speaker 3: One of the most profound things I've ever done at Lafayette.

380
00:18:52,398 --> 00:18:55,318
Speaker 2: Speaking of interpersonal relationships, let's dive a little bit more

381
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Speaker 2: into the one between Joe Aotani and Ipe Muzuhata. Joe,

382
00:18:59,838 --> 00:19:02,198
Speaker 2: you were with them together three years. I've been with

383
00:19:02,238 --> 00:19:05,558
Speaker 2: them many many times. Time is just the three of us,

384
00:19:06,078 --> 00:19:08,278
Speaker 2: So I want to dive into that relationship.

385
00:19:08,478 --> 00:19:22,158
Speaker 1: We'll do that right after this. As I mentioned, Joe, I've.

386
00:19:21,998 --> 00:19:26,358
Speaker 2: Been with Epey and show Hey together exclusively several times.

387
00:19:26,438 --> 00:19:29,678
Speaker 2: Most recently it was back this winter in January in

388
00:19:29,718 --> 00:19:33,678
Speaker 2: New York. And the relationship, I'm telling you, folks, it

389
00:19:34,678 --> 00:19:36,838
Speaker 2: has been extremely, extremely tight.

390
00:19:37,078 --> 00:19:40,558
Speaker 1: And I for instance, show Hey got his new dog.

391
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Speaker 1: It's just a cute, wonderful dog.

392
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Speaker 2: And I asked him because he said the dog had

393
00:19:45,518 --> 00:19:48,918
Speaker 2: really helped him with his rehab from his latest elbow procedure.

394
00:19:49,478 --> 00:19:51,758
Speaker 2: I asked him, well, what happens when the season starts

395
00:19:51,878 --> 00:19:54,918
Speaker 2: and you have to go on the road, and he said, well,

396
00:19:55,558 --> 00:19:58,558
Speaker 2: Epey's wife is as close to that dog as I am,

397
00:19:58,918 --> 00:20:01,198
Speaker 2: and he's in good hands. I mean, they just spent

398
00:20:01,358 --> 00:20:02,638
Speaker 2: so much time together.

399
00:20:03,478 --> 00:20:08,078
Speaker 1: The trust factor there is was off the charts. So

400
00:20:08,678 --> 00:20:10,238
Speaker 1: I've gotten to know Epay a little bit.

401
00:20:10,318 --> 00:20:14,678
Speaker 2: Joe, I've always liked him. This got nothing I could

402
00:20:14,718 --> 00:20:17,838
Speaker 2: never see. You know that he had a huge gambling problem,

403
00:20:17,878 --> 00:20:21,438
Speaker 2: which he has admitted to here. But people have to

404
00:20:21,518 --> 00:20:24,198
Speaker 2: understand how close these two were, and I don't think

405
00:20:24,758 --> 00:20:28,558
Speaker 2: other than the gambling issue, they shared just about everything.

406
00:20:29,118 --> 00:20:32,598
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's correct. They did That's why I

407
00:20:32,718 --> 00:20:36,078
Speaker 3: was so baffled by this when the news broke. I mean,

408
00:20:36,198 --> 00:20:39,118
Speaker 3: every every moment of every day, they would be together

409
00:20:40,238 --> 00:20:42,838
Speaker 3: whatever show was to work out, whether it was the

410
00:20:42,878 --> 00:20:48,518
Speaker 3: cages outside, throwing that might whatever that might be. Epay

411
00:20:48,598 --> 00:20:50,998
Speaker 3: was right a couple of steps behind, always had this

412
00:20:51,078 --> 00:20:53,678
Speaker 3: like little handheld device. I think it measured velocity for

413
00:20:53,718 --> 00:20:55,918
Speaker 3: when he was just even playing catch. I think to

414
00:20:55,918 --> 00:20:57,958
Speaker 3: a certain extent might even have done something like that

415
00:20:58,038 --> 00:21:01,398
Speaker 3: when he was taking vpeach, trying to measure velocity off

416
00:21:01,438 --> 00:21:05,238
Speaker 3: the bat thanks to that. But it was always in concert.

417
00:21:05,318 --> 00:21:09,118
Speaker 3: There was and then for me as a manager every

418
00:21:09,238 --> 00:21:12,958
Speaker 3: night after the game was over, if I'd forgotten to

419
00:21:13,038 --> 00:21:15,678
Speaker 3: say or visit with them personally on the way home,

420
00:21:15,758 --> 00:21:17,958
Speaker 3: normally text Okay, what do you got for tomorrow? How's

421
00:21:17,998 --> 00:21:20,758
Speaker 3: he doing? How are we feeling about? Does he need

422
00:21:20,798 --> 00:21:23,598
Speaker 3: a day? Is he good to go? This was my

423
00:21:23,798 --> 00:21:26,718
Speaker 3: ideas of my plans, because part of that was probably

424
00:21:26,718 --> 00:21:30,478
Speaker 3: more pertinent when before the DH real came in, where

425
00:21:30,478 --> 00:21:32,318
Speaker 3: I had a DH him or pitch him and then

426
00:21:32,398 --> 00:21:35,358
Speaker 3: use him in the outfield briefly because we just couldn't

427
00:21:35,398 --> 00:21:38,878
Speaker 3: do list them as a DH whatever, So I had

428
00:21:38,918 --> 00:21:41,678
Speaker 3: I had to find that out the night before is

429
00:21:41,718 --> 00:21:43,998
Speaker 3: he good for this tomorrow? As an example, how does

430
00:21:44,238 --> 00:21:46,598
Speaker 3: how are his legs feeling? The day after he pitched?

431
00:21:46,838 --> 00:21:48,598
Speaker 3: Does he want to go ahead? And DH that there?

432
00:21:48,598 --> 00:21:50,318
Speaker 3: Does he need a day? So there was all of

433
00:21:50,358 --> 00:21:53,118
Speaker 3: this every day, every day, So a lot of time

434
00:21:53,278 --> 00:21:55,598
Speaker 3: was conversation, walk in the office, epay. What he got

435
00:21:55,958 --> 00:21:57,758
Speaker 3: is what I see for tomorrow. And of course I

436
00:21:57,798 --> 00:22:00,638
Speaker 3: spoke more to Lerk directly to him because I needed to,

437
00:22:00,718 --> 00:22:02,598
Speaker 3: because Show had to hear it from him to understand.

438
00:22:02,598 --> 00:22:05,038
Speaker 3: And there's times I knew there was different moments when

439
00:22:05,078 --> 00:22:08,398
Speaker 3: Show would understand maybe something more light hearted and sometimes

440
00:22:08,438 --> 00:22:10,478
Speaker 3: try to joke around with them, and I would, but

441
00:22:10,598 --> 00:22:13,238
Speaker 3: always always on the way out of the clubhouse at night,

442
00:22:13,438 --> 00:22:17,518
Speaker 3: acknowledge them. So there's this constant like interaction and I

443
00:22:17,558 --> 00:22:20,238
Speaker 3: felt really comfortable with it, and I felt whatever I

444
00:22:20,278 --> 00:22:23,998
Speaker 3: was saying was getting across. I never felt a disconnect

445
00:22:23,998 --> 00:22:27,758
Speaker 3: and everything could have imagined anything that we're talking about

446
00:22:27,838 --> 00:22:30,918
Speaker 3: right now. So listen, it happens. It happens in relationships,

447
00:22:30,918 --> 00:22:34,078
Speaker 3: It happens everywhere you know, a really well trusted part

448
00:22:34,118 --> 00:22:37,918
Speaker 3: of a group or a union, sometimes it happens. And

449
00:22:37,998 --> 00:22:41,278
Speaker 3: so for as much as I can't believe it, it happens,

450
00:22:41,838 --> 00:22:44,398
Speaker 3: and it happens to all of us. So it's just

451
00:22:44,398 --> 00:22:47,398
Speaker 3: another extension of life in a sense. But when you're

452
00:22:47,438 --> 00:22:50,798
Speaker 3: talking about you know, the Beatles and the Stones and

453
00:22:50,838 --> 00:22:53,398
Speaker 3: the Who whatever, all wrapped up into one being betrayed

454
00:22:53,398 --> 00:22:55,678
Speaker 3: in a sense, it seems to take on a more

455
00:22:55,798 --> 00:22:59,718
Speaker 3: unbelievable tenor to it. I guess we shouldn't. I shouldn't

456
00:22:59,758 --> 00:23:02,838
Speaker 3: because I professed that from the beginning, and a part

457
00:23:02,838 --> 00:23:05,398
Speaker 3: of it is just because of my I genuine like

458
00:23:06,078 --> 00:23:08,958
Speaker 3: for both of them, you pay and show, so it's

459
00:23:08,958 --> 00:23:10,438
Speaker 3: one of those things that you and you like people,

460
00:23:10,438 --> 00:23:12,438
Speaker 3: you don't want to believe certain things, certain truths, but

461
00:23:12,438 --> 00:23:14,198
Speaker 3: in the end you just have to come to grips

462
00:23:14,238 --> 00:23:14,478
Speaker 3: with it.

463
00:23:14,678 --> 00:23:16,118
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, bigger picture, Joe.

464
00:23:16,158 --> 00:23:19,798
Speaker 2: It says something about sports gambling and how ubiquitous it

465
00:23:19,838 --> 00:23:22,638
Speaker 2: is in today's society that you know, E Bay said

466
00:23:22,638 --> 00:23:24,518
Speaker 2: he wasn't aware of what he was doing in California

467
00:23:24,598 --> 00:23:28,638
Speaker 2: was illegal. It's believable for me because again we're surrounded

468
00:23:28,678 --> 00:23:33,598
Speaker 2: by all the advertisements and whatever barriers there were to

469
00:23:33,878 --> 00:23:36,598
Speaker 2: getting involved with sports gambling, because let's face it, there

470
00:23:36,638 --> 00:23:39,878
Speaker 2: was a little bit of a dark CD side to it, right,

471
00:23:39,958 --> 00:23:42,278
Speaker 2: the illegal nature to it. Putting a couple of shekels

472
00:23:42,278 --> 00:23:44,278
Speaker 2: out a football game is one thing, but really getting

473
00:23:44,318 --> 00:23:45,878
Speaker 2: deeply involved took some effort.

474
00:23:46,318 --> 00:23:49,078
Speaker 1: Those barriers are now gone. We're encouraged all the time

475
00:23:49,118 --> 00:23:52,118
Speaker 1: to bet, bet, bet, bet, bet, bet bet, and these

476
00:23:52,158 --> 00:23:55,438
Speaker 1: companies are not losing money. They're making money off you folks.

477
00:23:55,998 --> 00:23:58,358
Speaker 2: And now we have an entire young generation that is

478
00:23:58,398 --> 00:24:02,558
Speaker 2: growing up thinking this is just very normal activity, just

479
00:24:02,598 --> 00:24:05,918
Speaker 2: to keep betting on baseball. Big picture here is, yeah,

480
00:24:06,198 --> 00:24:08,318
Speaker 2: you know, this is not the end, certainly of any

481
00:24:08,438 --> 00:24:12,158
Speaker 2: kind of betting scandals happening across all sports. We've seen

482
00:24:12,158 --> 00:24:14,198
Speaker 2: it already in other sports as well. But that's a

483
00:24:14,238 --> 00:24:17,438
Speaker 2: bigger picture here that we could save for another day,

484
00:24:18,038 --> 00:24:20,238
Speaker 2: just telling you that this is just the tip of

485
00:24:20,238 --> 00:24:22,038
Speaker 2: the iceberg, I think when it comes to some of

486
00:24:22,038 --> 00:24:27,758
Speaker 2: these scandals and players and trainers and club employees being

487
00:24:27,998 --> 00:24:30,358
Speaker 2: you know, and put precarious positions.

488
00:24:30,598 --> 00:24:33,278
Speaker 3: Listen, right, you know you're you're aware of this. I'm

489
00:24:33,278 --> 00:24:36,518
Speaker 3: from Hazelton, PA, right up here in northeastern Pennsylvania. Was

490
00:24:36,718 --> 00:24:38,838
Speaker 3: you talk about ubiquitous You were able to gamble all

491
00:24:38,838 --> 00:24:40,838
Speaker 3: over the city When I was a kid growing up.

492
00:24:40,838 --> 00:24:42,638
Speaker 3: I didn't do it, but I knew where you could

493
00:24:43,038 --> 00:24:44,878
Speaker 3: A lot of times was in the back room of bars.

494
00:24:45,158 --> 00:24:47,638
Speaker 3: There's a lot of that stuff going on. Back in

495
00:24:47,678 --> 00:24:50,478
Speaker 3: the day. The numbers guy would walk to your mom's

496
00:24:50,838 --> 00:24:53,838
Speaker 3: your grandmom's house, and they pick up a number for

497
00:24:53,878 --> 00:24:55,318
Speaker 3: the day. They pay for the number and hope they

498
00:24:55,358 --> 00:24:57,238
Speaker 3: hit the number and win a couple of bucks. So

499
00:24:57,278 --> 00:24:59,278
Speaker 3: this is this is nothing new. We act as though

500
00:24:59,318 --> 00:25:02,078
Speaker 3: it's new. It's not new. It's been going on forever.

501
00:25:02,718 --> 00:25:04,958
Speaker 3: The thing, I like what you're saying there, the effort's

502
00:25:04,958 --> 00:25:08,758
Speaker 3: been taken away even though it has been going on forever.

503
00:25:09,598 --> 00:25:12,478
Speaker 3: I think we've done a wonderful job to this point

504
00:25:12,598 --> 00:25:16,798
Speaker 3: of separating the actual sport from the gambling institutions where

505
00:25:16,958 --> 00:25:19,558
Speaker 3: if you're not supposed to bet on a game, obviously

506
00:25:19,638 --> 00:25:21,518
Speaker 3: the black socks, you just don't do that. But the

507
00:25:21,638 --> 00:25:23,958
Speaker 3: edges have been blurred a bit here now with the

508
00:25:24,638 --> 00:25:27,838
Speaker 3: legalization and the ease with which you can place a bit,

509
00:25:27,958 --> 00:25:30,798
Speaker 3: the effort has been taken away one hundred percent. You're

510
00:25:30,878 --> 00:25:32,558
Speaker 3: just do it on my cell phone. Another that's another

511
00:25:32,638 --> 00:25:35,558
Speaker 3: phone situation. Anywhere you can go anywhere right now in

512
00:25:35,598 --> 00:25:38,598
Speaker 3: place of bet within seconds, minutes, whatever you want to do.

513
00:25:39,078 --> 00:25:41,158
Speaker 3: That's the part that bothers me because then there's an

514
00:25:41,158 --> 00:25:45,318
Speaker 3: incongruity to that and what we're asking the standard we're

515
00:25:45,318 --> 00:25:48,478
Speaker 3: asking our athletes to live by based on the fact

516
00:25:48,558 --> 00:25:50,798
Speaker 3: we're making it so easy to go to in the

517
00:25:50,838 --> 00:25:55,038
Speaker 3: wrong direction. That's you talk about crossed signals. I've not

518
00:25:55,158 --> 00:25:57,918
Speaker 3: been into this from the beginning. I've not understood it

519
00:25:57,918 --> 00:26:01,998
Speaker 3: from the beginning. Why we're getting this so deeply into it.

520
00:26:02,158 --> 00:26:03,918
Speaker 3: Of course, it's about money. I get that, I understand

521
00:26:03,998 --> 00:26:07,638
Speaker 3: and all that. And you know, we always downgrading perceived

522
00:26:07,638 --> 00:26:10,198
Speaker 3: to be deviant behavior. We seem to be on this

523
00:26:10,998 --> 00:26:15,118
Speaker 3: trend or path to always downgrade what had been considered battery,

524
00:26:15,118 --> 00:26:18,478
Speaker 3: illegal or deviant, and that becomes part of our normal

525
00:26:18,558 --> 00:26:21,238
Speaker 3: method of life. And then when things get screwed up,

526
00:26:21,358 --> 00:26:25,598
Speaker 3: everybody becomes astonished. It's been going on forever, folks. I

527
00:26:25,598 --> 00:26:27,998
Speaker 3: mean in my little town. And I know that. I

528
00:26:28,038 --> 00:26:30,878
Speaker 3: used to play the football cards on a Sunday. Absolutely,

529
00:26:30,918 --> 00:26:32,918
Speaker 3: you've got four picks, what have you put down? A

530
00:26:32,958 --> 00:26:35,518
Speaker 3: couple of bucks? You win maybe twenty twenty five bucks. God,

531
00:26:35,518 --> 00:26:37,518
Speaker 3: that was like a week's worth of beers right there.

532
00:26:37,878 --> 00:26:40,798
Speaker 3: So it's been going on forever, not it's getting to

533
00:26:40,798 --> 00:26:43,078
Speaker 3: the point now. It's so the effort's been taken away

534
00:26:43,438 --> 00:26:45,918
Speaker 3: and it's getting it's going to get even dirtier. I think.

535
00:26:46,238 --> 00:26:48,758
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even more as I mentioned, barrier is taken away.

536
00:26:48,798 --> 00:26:51,438
Speaker 1: As you said, you know, the effort is a lot

537
00:26:51,558 --> 00:26:54,838
Speaker 1: less in terms of entry into gambling. It's even more

538
00:26:54,878 --> 00:26:58,198
Speaker 1: than that, Joe. It's like a lot of new technology.

539
00:26:58,318 --> 00:26:59,598
Speaker 1: It is manipulative.

540
00:27:00,358 --> 00:27:04,598
Speaker 2: These betting places have algorithms that know when you're most

541
00:27:04,678 --> 00:27:09,158
Speaker 2: vulnerable to responding to alerts to bet. There's no question

542
00:27:09,238 --> 00:27:12,958
Speaker 2: that they monitor the behavior and betting patterns, and they

543
00:27:13,038 --> 00:27:16,078
Speaker 2: know basically what peak times are, what peak bets, what's

544
00:27:16,118 --> 00:27:19,358
Speaker 2: most likely to get you involved in a bet. People

545
00:27:19,638 --> 00:27:23,318
Speaker 2: just don't realize how much they're being manipulated, and that's

546
00:27:23,318 --> 00:27:26,518
Speaker 2: really what it is. It's a manipulation of kind of

547
00:27:26,518 --> 00:27:30,438
Speaker 2: your basic instincts on social media, on these betting apps,

548
00:27:30,718 --> 00:27:34,398
Speaker 2: and once they get that information, whether specifically to you

549
00:27:34,518 --> 00:27:37,518
Speaker 2: or the general population, they can pray upon that have

550
00:27:37,598 --> 00:27:37,958
Speaker 2: you bet.

551
00:27:37,998 --> 00:27:38,518
Speaker 1: Even more.

552
00:27:39,078 --> 00:27:42,078
Speaker 3: I love the disclaimers at the end. If you're having

553
00:27:42,158 --> 00:27:44,798
Speaker 3: a gambling problem, get help. I mean, that's the disclaimer

554
00:27:45,318 --> 00:27:49,998
Speaker 3: to exonerate them from any possible whatever with that, I

555
00:27:50,038 --> 00:27:53,998
Speaker 3: think that is kind of hysterical actually, So yeah, all

556
00:27:54,038 --> 00:27:57,758
Speaker 3: that stuff to me, Wow, it's so disingenuous. And the

557
00:27:57,838 --> 00:27:59,878
Speaker 3: fact that we permit this to happen and continue to

558
00:27:59,878 --> 00:28:03,198
Speaker 3: permit it to even get grant more grand and deeper.

559
00:28:02,678 --> 00:28:05,518
Speaker 3: I don't get it. And you know that's just me

560
00:28:05,718 --> 00:28:10,358
Speaker 3: because that really plays into my level of sensibilities. And furthermore,

561
00:28:10,398 --> 00:28:12,998
Speaker 3: we even we advertise illness. I like watching the nightly

562
00:28:13,078 --> 00:28:16,038
Speaker 3: News with David Muir. I really like the format. I

563
00:28:16,078 --> 00:28:18,038
Speaker 3: like the way he presents it. I like it. But

564
00:28:18,238 --> 00:28:20,798
Speaker 3: every commercial when it gets to the commercials after the

565
00:28:20,838 --> 00:28:23,398
Speaker 3: first ten or fifty minute segment, it's all about illness,

566
00:28:23,558 --> 00:28:27,798
Speaker 3: and we're always advertising drugs and illness and be careful

567
00:28:27,798 --> 00:28:30,078
Speaker 3: with this. But then there's the disclaimers, you know, all

568
00:28:30,118 --> 00:28:33,518
Speaker 3: the different bad things that could happen from these drugs. Wow.

569
00:28:33,718 --> 00:28:37,358
Speaker 3: I mean that stuff to me really insults my intelligence

570
00:28:37,598 --> 00:28:41,958
Speaker 3: big time, just like at the end of the betting advertisement,

571
00:28:42,198 --> 00:28:44,598
Speaker 3: the disclaimer if you feel like you have a gambling problem,

572
00:28:44,678 --> 00:28:48,358
Speaker 3: get help. Wow, who thinks that this is appropriate and right?

573
00:28:48,398 --> 00:28:50,758
Speaker 3: I mean, it's all legal stuff. I get it, But

574
00:28:51,878 --> 00:28:55,878
Speaker 3: that and then advertising illness has baffled me for years.

575
00:28:56,238 --> 00:28:58,078
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I've talked to some players too.

576
00:28:58,118 --> 00:29:00,518
Speaker 2: They feel like the vitriol in the stands has gotten

577
00:29:00,598 --> 00:29:03,758
Speaker 2: worse because people now have money writing on the game,

578
00:29:04,118 --> 00:29:05,798
Speaker 2: and a lot of times the money is not necessarily

579
00:29:05,838 --> 00:29:07,918
Speaker 2: because you're backing your favorite team. It could be a

580
00:29:07,918 --> 00:29:10,158
Speaker 2: prop bet, it could be anything. So when a player

581
00:29:10,198 --> 00:29:12,598
Speaker 2: doesn't perform, things go the other way and it's costing

582
00:29:12,678 --> 00:29:15,758
Speaker 2: literally costing people money, then the anger is going to

583
00:29:15,798 --> 00:29:18,918
Speaker 2: be displayed more. And I think you've seen that besides

584
00:29:19,158 --> 00:29:22,518
Speaker 2: just a general breakdown and civility in society, you've seen

585
00:29:22,558 --> 00:29:24,318
Speaker 2: a little bit more of an angrier edge.

586
00:29:24,678 --> 00:29:24,838
Speaker 1: Joe.

587
00:29:24,918 --> 00:29:27,158
Speaker 2: Let me wrap up this segment here on show. Hey

588
00:29:27,278 --> 00:29:29,878
Speaker 2: and look ahead, Okay. I want to talk about his

589
00:29:29,958 --> 00:29:33,598
Speaker 2: exposure because I think it's very limited here. First of all,

590
00:29:33,798 --> 00:29:37,118
Speaker 2: in terms of the irs. Obviously they're looking at the bookmaker,

591
00:29:37,238 --> 00:29:38,358
Speaker 2: they're looking at Epe.

592
00:29:38,958 --> 00:29:39,518
Speaker 1: I get that.

593
00:29:39,758 --> 00:29:44,958
Speaker 2: I really don't think that Sho Hay has legal exposure here,

594
00:29:45,118 --> 00:29:49,558
Speaker 2: even in fact he somehow knew about or even tangentially

595
00:29:49,718 --> 00:29:52,478
Speaker 2: was involved with a transfer of funds to an illegal bookmaker.

596
00:29:52,798 --> 00:29:56,358
Speaker 2: That's not traditionally what the Feds are going after they

597
00:29:56,358 --> 00:29:58,678
Speaker 2: want the people who are placing the bets, They want

598
00:29:58,718 --> 00:30:02,038
Speaker 2: the money that's being laundered. If you have someone who's

599
00:30:02,078 --> 00:30:05,358
Speaker 2: covering a bet for a friend, listen, is there a

600
00:30:05,438 --> 00:30:09,438
Speaker 2: legal avenue there to pursue, Probably because you're sending money

601
00:30:09,478 --> 00:30:13,158
Speaker 2: to an illegal operation, but that's not the focus. I

602
00:30:13,678 --> 00:30:16,118
Speaker 2: really don't think that. And anyway, I have to go

603
00:30:16,198 --> 00:30:19,438
Speaker 2: back to what show Hay said. You have to believe

604
00:30:19,598 --> 00:30:24,558
Speaker 2: either show Hay's story or Epay's first story, which he

605
00:30:24,598 --> 00:30:27,958
Speaker 2: has since denied, to think that he has exposure here.

606
00:30:28,598 --> 00:30:31,998
Speaker 2: And he did say, show Hey did a press conference,

607
00:30:31,998 --> 00:30:35,238
Speaker 2: you talked about Joe, I'd never bet on sports, and

608
00:30:35,278 --> 00:30:39,198
Speaker 2: I never willfully sent money to the bookmaker. Now that's

609
00:30:39,278 --> 00:30:43,998
Speaker 2: interesting choice of words here, never wilfully sent money to

610
00:30:44,198 --> 00:30:47,838
Speaker 2: the bookmaker. So what he's saying here is that if

611
00:30:47,918 --> 00:30:51,798
Speaker 2: money was transferred from his account to the bookmaker, he

612
00:30:51,998 --> 00:30:56,518
Speaker 2: did not know that his money was going to a bookmaker.

613
00:30:57,358 --> 00:31:00,078
Speaker 2: So again, when you take that position, if you're show

614
00:31:00,118 --> 00:31:03,478
Speaker 2: Hey Otani and then you invite federal authorities to come

615
00:31:03,478 --> 00:31:07,598
Speaker 2: in and investigate what you call a massive theft, there's

616
00:31:07,638 --> 00:31:10,118
Speaker 2: no retreat from that position that you know, there's no

617
00:31:10,198 --> 00:31:12,998
Speaker 2: point b here is out, You're out on an island,

618
00:31:13,038 --> 00:31:16,718
Speaker 2: saying he pays all money from me. Told lies. I

619
00:31:16,758 --> 00:31:20,118
Speaker 2: never willfully sent money. So that's why I think in

620
00:31:20,158 --> 00:31:23,558
Speaker 2: a baseball sense, in a legal sense. And I know

621
00:31:23,598 --> 00:31:24,718
Speaker 2: people want to run with this.

622
00:31:24,718 --> 00:31:26,998
Speaker 1: Story because it's show hey, and it's gambling, and it's

623
00:31:26,998 --> 00:31:29,598
Speaker 1: sexy and all that stuff. To me, it takes too

624
00:31:29,678 --> 00:31:33,078
Speaker 1: much mental gymnastics to think that there's more here to

625
00:31:33,158 --> 00:31:35,158
Speaker 1: show Hey involvement. Show He's involvement.

626
00:31:35,278 --> 00:31:38,598
Speaker 2: So for me, I'm gonna believe him as a word

627
00:31:38,718 --> 00:31:41,078
Speaker 2: until any other evidence turns out.

628
00:31:41,438 --> 00:31:43,478
Speaker 3: Agreed. I one hundred percent agree with that. I was

629
00:31:43,518 --> 00:31:46,358
Speaker 3: just insinuating earlier, just from my perception of what I've

630
00:31:46,358 --> 00:31:49,078
Speaker 3: been reading and hearing. If people were just able to

631
00:31:49,638 --> 00:31:51,598
Speaker 3: meet he was able to ask him direct questions, he

632
00:31:51,678 --> 00:31:54,718
Speaker 3: answered them directly, it goes away and it's just gone.

633
00:31:55,198 --> 00:31:57,398
Speaker 3: And that that was the only point that I thought

634
00:31:57,438 --> 00:31:59,678
Speaker 3: was missing from all of this. And again because it's

635
00:31:59,678 --> 00:32:02,878
Speaker 3: something that I like to do postgame when you know

636
00:32:02,878 --> 00:32:05,758
Speaker 3: there's something controversial, you know, and we're talking about a

637
00:32:05,758 --> 00:32:08,638
Speaker 3: playing the game whatever or whatever. It's just but it

638
00:32:08,678 --> 00:32:11,278
Speaker 3: has a tendency to be controversial. It's normally a negative thing.

639
00:32:11,838 --> 00:32:14,158
Speaker 3: My take or tact has always been just to answer

640
00:32:14,238 --> 00:32:17,758
Speaker 3: it straight up, don't spin it. This is what happened.

641
00:32:18,278 --> 00:32:19,798
Speaker 3: You might not like my answer, but this is what

642
00:32:19,838 --> 00:32:22,638
Speaker 3: I got, this is what I believe, and that's it.

643
00:32:22,678 --> 00:32:25,158
Speaker 3: And I and again I took it from the Clearing

644
00:32:25,198 --> 00:32:28,358
Speaker 3: President Danger from Clancy with Jack Ryan talking about the

645
00:32:28,358 --> 00:32:31,838
Speaker 3: President when that bust happened on the boat in the Caribbean,

646
00:32:31,838 --> 00:32:33,838
Speaker 3: and they wanted to say that the President hardly knew

647
00:32:33,838 --> 00:32:36,438
Speaker 3: this guy, and Jack Ryan said, no, you didn't hardly

648
00:32:36,438 --> 00:32:38,078
Speaker 3: know this guy, mister President, you knew him. He was

649
00:32:38,118 --> 00:32:40,678
Speaker 3: one of your best friends ever, kind of paraphrasing it.

650
00:32:40,718 --> 00:32:42,678
Speaker 3: So that's it. You don't you don't spin it, you

651
00:32:42,718 --> 00:32:45,438
Speaker 3: go toward it, and then you disarm it, and that's it.

652
00:32:45,518 --> 00:32:47,838
Speaker 3: I mean, just disarm it. That's the only part that

653
00:32:47,838 --> 00:32:50,878
Speaker 3: I think is missing, the disarm this army component of this,

654
00:32:51,518 --> 00:32:54,518
Speaker 3: because I totally believe showed it. No. Listen, this guy

655
00:32:54,638 --> 00:32:57,238
Speaker 3: just has one one agenda and that's to be the

656
00:32:57,278 --> 00:33:00,638
Speaker 3: best baseball player in history. He's pretty much on track

657
00:33:00,678 --> 00:33:03,838
Speaker 3: to be that right now. Everything else I don't even

658
00:33:03,958 --> 00:33:06,478
Speaker 3: think he's ever even given it another thought.

659
00:33:06,638 --> 00:33:06,838
Speaker 1: Joe.

660
00:33:06,838 --> 00:33:09,318
Speaker 2: I always like your take on show Hey, because we

661
00:33:09,478 --> 00:33:14,358
Speaker 2: tend to complicate our heroes, and I think you, like me,

662
00:33:14,558 --> 00:33:18,518
Speaker 2: believe he is exactly what you see. There's no obfuscation here,

663
00:33:18,638 --> 00:33:21,558
Speaker 2: there's no hidden agendas. Again, I'll go back to that

664
00:33:21,558 --> 00:33:23,878
Speaker 2: word I started with, naive. If you want to accuse

665
00:33:23,958 --> 00:33:26,718
Speaker 2: him of being naive, I go ahead. I think he

666
00:33:26,718 --> 00:33:31,118
Speaker 2: would plead guilty to that. I always say with show, Hey,

667
00:33:31,278 --> 00:33:34,158
Speaker 2: there's less there than you think. He is not a

668
00:33:34,198 --> 00:33:37,038
Speaker 2: complicated person. And I say that in a deering way,

669
00:33:37,158 --> 00:33:39,798
Speaker 2: because again I love people who have pure intentions. And

670
00:33:39,838 --> 00:33:42,038
Speaker 2: as you said, he wants to be a baseball player.

671
00:33:42,038 --> 00:33:45,718
Speaker 2: He could possibly be, and that is what drives his world.

672
00:33:46,118 --> 00:33:48,718
Speaker 3: That's it. There's nothing else. Now he's married. I've not

673
00:33:48,758 --> 00:33:51,518
Speaker 3: met the girl. Obviously, love to meet her, but other

674
00:33:51,558 --> 00:33:53,718
Speaker 3: than that, I don't need I've never met his family,

675
00:33:53,798 --> 00:33:57,278
Speaker 3: but it does his His sphere of concern cannot extend

676
00:33:57,358 --> 00:34:00,558
Speaker 3: much further than that, other than hitting a baseball squarely er,

677
00:34:00,718 --> 00:34:02,558
Speaker 3: throwing a cutter on the outside edge.

678
00:34:02,678 --> 00:34:03,278
Speaker 1: Cool stuff.

679
00:34:03,278 --> 00:34:05,718
Speaker 2: Hey, Joe, we know the season is underway, and I

680
00:34:05,758 --> 00:34:08,238
Speaker 2: love talking to you about managers and the way they

681
00:34:08,238 --> 00:34:10,758
Speaker 2: go about their business. Well, we have a ton of

682
00:34:10,838 --> 00:34:15,438
Speaker 2: managers this year. First time managers this first week of

683
00:34:15,478 --> 00:34:18,198
Speaker 2: the season. I guess you know, I get it. It's

684
00:34:18,198 --> 00:34:20,678
Speaker 2: small sample sized, folks. You don't want to make conclusions,

685
00:34:21,078 --> 00:34:23,078
Speaker 2: but I want to get your take on some first

686
00:34:23,118 --> 00:34:26,158
Speaker 2: time managers, at least with their current clubs, and what

687
00:34:26,238 --> 00:34:28,718
Speaker 2: it's like starting the season either on the right foot

688
00:34:29,158 --> 00:34:31,838
Speaker 2: or sometimes on the wrong foot. We'll do that right

689
00:34:31,918 --> 00:34:45,198
Speaker 2: after this. So, Joe, I got to imagine a manager

690
00:34:45,318 --> 00:34:46,998
Speaker 2: is kind of like a player. When a season starts,

691
00:34:47,038 --> 00:34:49,158
Speaker 2: You're excited, you want to get going. The player wants

692
00:34:49,158 --> 00:34:52,118
Speaker 2: to get that first hit, you know, get that first knock,

693
00:34:52,238 --> 00:34:54,718
Speaker 2: get things going, kind of relax and breathe. It's got

694
00:34:54,798 --> 00:34:56,438
Speaker 2: to be that way for a manager, right, I mean,

695
00:34:57,078 --> 00:34:58,998
Speaker 2: just to get out of the gate. It doesn't have

696
00:34:59,078 --> 00:35:01,598
Speaker 2: to be thirteen to oher, but just to get out

697
00:35:01,598 --> 00:35:03,918
Speaker 2: of the gate feeling confident. How important did you feel

698
00:35:04,278 --> 00:35:05,198
Speaker 2: was getting out of the gate?

699
00:35:05,398 --> 00:35:07,118
Speaker 3: Loved? I mean, when you get out of the gate.

700
00:35:07,318 --> 00:35:10,198
Speaker 3: I mean, I've always trying to That was one of

701
00:35:10,198 --> 00:35:13,518
Speaker 3: my tenants during spring training, and I talked to the

702
00:35:13,518 --> 00:35:17,798
Speaker 3: guys before the season began, was to always really work

703
00:35:17,918 --> 00:35:20,038
Speaker 3: directly to get off to a good start. When you

704
00:35:20,038 --> 00:35:22,198
Speaker 3: get off to a good start, and that that could

705
00:35:22,238 --> 00:35:24,878
Speaker 3: be subjective in regards to what is a good start.

706
00:35:24,878 --> 00:35:26,998
Speaker 3: I would say, like, I don't know, fifteen and ten

707
00:35:27,118 --> 00:35:29,318
Speaker 3: is a good start. I've been on some starts better

708
00:35:29,318 --> 00:35:31,518
Speaker 3: than that, maybe a little bit better than five hundred,

709
00:35:31,558 --> 00:35:33,438
Speaker 3: but you want to be at least five hundred or better.

710
00:35:33,758 --> 00:35:35,838
Speaker 3: But when you're better than that good start, here's the point.

711
00:35:35,878 --> 00:35:38,558
Speaker 3: I mean, you're gonna run into some trouble. You're always

712
00:35:38,558 --> 00:35:40,638
Speaker 3: going into some trouble, and when when you get off

713
00:35:40,678 --> 00:35:43,358
Speaker 3: to a decent start, you're more able to absorb that

714
00:35:43,438 --> 00:35:45,918
Speaker 3: bad moment. I ate my last year with the Angels.

715
00:35:45,918 --> 00:35:47,638
Speaker 3: We got off to a great stem, probably one of

716
00:35:47,678 --> 00:35:49,638
Speaker 3: the best starts they had, and then we had the

717
00:35:49,678 --> 00:35:52,278
Speaker 3: horrific moment of twelve losses in a row. So by

718
00:35:52,318 --> 00:35:54,318
Speaker 3: the time I left, we were only a couple of

719
00:35:54,358 --> 00:35:57,838
Speaker 3: games under five hundred. But the really good start kind

720
00:35:57,838 --> 00:35:59,678
Speaker 3: of hit that a little bit. Had we not gone

721
00:35:59,678 --> 00:36:01,558
Speaker 3: off to a good start, that would have looked even

722
00:36:01,558 --> 00:36:04,278
Speaker 3: worse than it actually was. So when you get off

723
00:36:04,278 --> 00:36:06,918
Speaker 3: to a good start, you can absorb the bad moment.

724
00:36:07,278 --> 00:36:08,878
Speaker 3: It's the ebb and flow of the year. Man, You're

725
00:36:08,918 --> 00:36:11,118
Speaker 3: gonna have those really good moments to really bad moments.

726
00:36:11,238 --> 00:36:14,598
Speaker 3: So yeah, I've always preached that, like the Cubs in

727
00:36:14,638 --> 00:36:17,758
Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, great start. I think the twentsyd and eighty

728
00:36:18,158 --> 00:36:20,438
Speaker 3: Rays we had a really good start there too, I'm

729
00:36:20,438 --> 00:36:22,678
Speaker 3: pretty certain. But I've always been aware of that. It

730
00:36:22,758 --> 00:36:26,518
Speaker 3: definitely creates that vibe. I always remember the Tigers that

731
00:36:26,558 --> 00:36:27,358
Speaker 3: when you're what was.

732
00:36:27,358 --> 00:36:30,038
Speaker 1: It thirty five thirty five in nineteen eighty four.

733
00:36:30,558 --> 00:36:34,158
Speaker 3: I remember that specifically, and you could just see obviously

734
00:36:34,238 --> 00:36:36,998
Speaker 3: how that carried them through the season and how energizing

735
00:36:36,998 --> 00:36:39,158
Speaker 3: that is to the group under the fan base because

736
00:36:39,198 --> 00:36:41,478
Speaker 3: you get to that point, man, when you show up

737
00:36:41,478 --> 00:36:44,238
Speaker 3: at the ballpark, it's just different. I mean, you do

738
00:36:44,318 --> 00:36:47,158
Speaker 3: expect to win. You could feel like crap and you're

739
00:36:47,158 --> 00:36:49,678
Speaker 3: gonna win somehow. He could be like seven nothing in

740
00:36:49,718 --> 00:36:52,558
Speaker 3: the fourth and you're gonna beat him somehow. It just happens.

741
00:36:52,638 --> 00:36:55,558
Speaker 3: It's just the human element. So the great start can

742
00:36:55,998 --> 00:36:58,478
Speaker 3: really catapult you into too wonderful things by the end

743
00:36:58,518 --> 00:36:58,878
Speaker 3: of the year.

744
00:36:59,158 --> 00:37:01,998
Speaker 2: Yeah, that twenty sixteen team, that's a great example to me,

745
00:37:02,158 --> 00:37:05,598
Speaker 2: Joe of just the man the players dove tailing. It

746
00:37:05,638 --> 00:37:08,758
Speaker 2: was your second year there. Everybody was familiar with one another,

747
00:37:08,838 --> 00:37:11,518
Speaker 2: pretty much the same group of young guys together, as

748
00:37:11,558 --> 00:37:14,278
Speaker 2: you said, embraced the expectations. You did, that guy out

749
00:37:14,278 --> 00:37:16,558
Speaker 2: of the gate announcing to the world that were as

750
00:37:16,598 --> 00:37:20,118
Speaker 2: good as people think, and that team just that was

751
00:37:20,358 --> 00:37:22,238
Speaker 2: as well prepared a team I saw coming out of

752
00:37:22,238 --> 00:37:24,798
Speaker 2: spring training a long time and rode that all the

753
00:37:24,798 --> 00:37:26,718
Speaker 2: way to the championship, which is not easy to do.

754
00:37:27,318 --> 00:37:29,958
Speaker 2: So let's talk about this year. You've got Pat Murphy

755
00:37:29,998 --> 00:37:33,158
Speaker 2: with the Brewers doing Brewer type things. I mean, it

756
00:37:33,158 --> 00:37:36,478
Speaker 2: looks like Craig Counsel never left because Murph pushing all

757
00:37:36,478 --> 00:37:39,238
Speaker 2: the right buttons with the bullpen. They win close games.

758
00:37:39,278 --> 00:37:44,398
Speaker 2: They play spectacular defense. I made spectacular defense, so nothing's changed.

759
00:37:44,438 --> 00:37:44,958
Speaker 1: Milwaukee.

760
00:37:44,998 --> 00:37:47,838
Speaker 2: Good on them for sticking with Murph, giving him the job.

761
00:37:48,078 --> 00:37:51,238
Speaker 2: They had some thoughts about Don Mattingly going outside the organization.

762
00:37:51,958 --> 00:37:53,998
Speaker 2: I like the fact that he's there and it seems

763
00:37:54,038 --> 00:37:56,598
Speaker 2: to be very seamless. Counsel and the Cubs. They're off

764
00:37:56,598 --> 00:37:58,838
Speaker 2: to a decent start. Listen, they played a tough Texas

765
00:37:58,838 --> 00:38:01,758
Speaker 2: team to start, but you'll see the difference he makes.

766
00:38:01,798 --> 00:38:03,598
Speaker 2: I do believe Craig Counsel is one of the rare

767
00:38:03,638 --> 00:38:06,118
Speaker 2: manager who can make a difference in game. The way

768
00:38:06,158 --> 00:38:08,678
Speaker 2: he runs a game. And if you watch the Cubs

769
00:38:08,678 --> 00:38:12,238
Speaker 2: infield play defense, my goodness, it is a treat. I

770
00:38:12,238 --> 00:38:14,958
Speaker 2: mean they take runs off the board on a nightly basis.

771
00:38:15,358 --> 00:38:19,158
Speaker 2: They are as shorthanded and as well positioned as any

772
00:38:19,198 --> 00:38:22,478
Speaker 2: team I've seen this year. Steven Vote off to a

773
00:38:22,518 --> 00:38:25,558
Speaker 2: Ford two start in Cleveland. Good for him. Guy never

774
00:38:25,598 --> 00:38:27,358
Speaker 2: managed before, right, you never know what you're going to

775
00:38:27,398 --> 00:38:30,518
Speaker 2: get there, But again it's to me. Getting those wins

776
00:38:30,558 --> 00:38:33,478
Speaker 2: in the bank first week. Great for a first time manager.

777
00:38:33,838 --> 00:38:36,518
Speaker 2: Now let's talk about the other side, Joe. Ron Washington

778
00:38:36,678 --> 00:38:38,798
Speaker 2: actually had a team meeting after the second game of

779
00:38:38,798 --> 00:38:41,078
Speaker 2: the season with the Angels second game of the season.

780
00:38:41,278 --> 00:38:42,998
Speaker 2: They can say it worked because they won a few

781
00:38:43,038 --> 00:38:46,318
Speaker 2: games since then. I thought that was very interesting that

782
00:38:46,438 --> 00:38:48,958
Speaker 2: he's got a different style. He's definitely hands on.

783
00:38:50,158 --> 00:38:52,678
Speaker 1: He saw something obviously he didn't like, and after the

784
00:38:52,758 --> 00:38:56,118
Speaker 1: second loss to Baltimore, two blowout losses, he had a

785
00:38:56,118 --> 00:38:57,678
Speaker 1: team meeting. And it's rare.

786
00:38:57,838 --> 00:38:59,438
Speaker 2: I can't remember the last time I've heard one after

787
00:38:59,478 --> 00:39:02,838
Speaker 2: two games. But this is Ron Washington. He's being who

788
00:39:02,878 --> 00:39:03,198
Speaker 2: he is.

789
00:39:03,438 --> 00:39:05,878
Speaker 3: Always and that's it. I was asked that question a

790
00:39:05,878 --> 00:39:07,798
Speaker 3: couple of days ago. Of course, I mean, that's not

791
00:39:07,878 --> 00:39:10,118
Speaker 3: my method. We've talked about this in the past. I've

792
00:39:10,118 --> 00:39:13,078
Speaker 3: had my meeting in spring training, meeting before the All

793
00:39:13,078 --> 00:39:16,438
Speaker 3: Star break, and then a meeting before the first playoff game.

794
00:39:16,478 --> 00:39:18,758
Speaker 3: That's my three meetings during the year. The one time

795
00:39:18,798 --> 00:39:22,038
Speaker 3: I varied from that was in two thousand and eight

796
00:39:22,078 --> 00:39:24,198
Speaker 3: with the Rays. We were playing in Kansas City. We're

797
00:39:24,198 --> 00:39:25,918
Speaker 3: doing really well. Then all of a sudden, I didn't

798
00:39:25,958 --> 00:39:28,038
Speaker 3: like the attitude and we won. We won a game.

799
00:39:28,078 --> 00:39:29,998
Speaker 3: We won the game on the road, and to me,

800
00:39:30,078 --> 00:39:32,238
Speaker 3: that was like the absolute perfect time to have a meeting.

801
00:39:32,238 --> 00:39:34,278
Speaker 3: And that was even a meeting. I mean, I've never

802
00:39:34,318 --> 00:39:37,118
Speaker 3: screamed so much, like out of control, lose my breath

803
00:39:37,158 --> 00:39:39,118
Speaker 3: and you know, like tears coming out of your face.

804
00:39:39,158 --> 00:39:41,718
Speaker 3: I mean it's like that. I was that upset because

805
00:39:41,718 --> 00:39:44,558
Speaker 3: I thought we were missing the point there where you thought,

806
00:39:44,558 --> 00:39:46,078
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you can throw your gloves out there,

807
00:39:46,078 --> 00:39:48,638
Speaker 3: you're going to win a baseball game and you've never

808
00:39:48,678 --> 00:39:52,198
Speaker 3: done anything. You've never done anything as a franchise. I think,

809
00:39:52,238 --> 00:39:54,158
Speaker 3: what never won more than seventy games, You're gonna go

810
00:39:54,158 --> 00:39:56,078
Speaker 3: out there neck like that. So I was like my

811
00:39:56,078 --> 00:39:58,838
Speaker 3: one real team meeting other than the typical ones where

812
00:39:58,838 --> 00:40:01,918
Speaker 3: I'm just trying to outline things and cover stuff. So yes,

813
00:40:01,998 --> 00:40:03,718
Speaker 3: if that's what he wanted to do, you do it.

814
00:40:03,958 --> 00:40:06,318
Speaker 3: You remain true to yourself because if you don't, here's

815
00:40:06,358 --> 00:40:08,798
Speaker 3: what happens. I mean, when you have that thing that

816
00:40:08,878 --> 00:40:10,398
Speaker 3: you have to do, that you want to do that,

817
00:40:10,918 --> 00:40:13,438
Speaker 3: and you don't do that, it's a bad night's sleep.

818
00:40:13,798 --> 00:40:16,038
Speaker 3: It's a bad night's sleep because you're always going to

819
00:40:16,078 --> 00:40:19,318
Speaker 3: be there wishing you had. Now there's other times that

820
00:40:19,398 --> 00:40:21,878
Speaker 3: you wish you had slept on it. That's the other

821
00:40:21,878 --> 00:40:23,718
Speaker 3: part of it too, So I guess it works both ways.

822
00:40:24,158 --> 00:40:27,558
Speaker 3: But I've always felt like, if if you really feel

823
00:40:27,598 --> 00:40:30,638
Speaker 3: it's necessary and you have to do this it's the

824
00:40:30,678 --> 00:40:33,398
Speaker 3: right thing to do according to your sensibility, you should

825
00:40:33,478 --> 00:40:35,878
Speaker 3: do it. And he did. And again with that, it's

826
00:40:36,438 --> 00:40:38,878
Speaker 3: it's always had to play with the Oriols one more game

827
00:40:38,918 --> 00:40:41,398
Speaker 3: and then they go set down to Miami, where I'm

828
00:40:41,438 --> 00:40:43,838
Speaker 3: really surprised with their first part of the season. So

829
00:40:44,238 --> 00:40:47,038
Speaker 3: sometimes you're you know, regarding of who you're playing. That

830
00:40:47,198 --> 00:40:50,198
Speaker 3: helps after a team meeting who your starting pitcher is.

831
00:40:50,358 --> 00:40:52,518
Speaker 3: I know Voter took advantage of Oakland for the first

832
00:40:52,518 --> 00:40:54,598
Speaker 3: four games of the season, and good for him, and

833
00:40:54,638 --> 00:40:56,918
Speaker 3: because you got to beat those teams too. The big

834
00:40:56,958 --> 00:41:00,798
Speaker 3: thing is my interpretation of early on only is this

835
00:41:00,958 --> 00:41:05,398
Speaker 3: that adrenaline plays early than players play out. So if

836
00:41:05,878 --> 00:41:07,638
Speaker 3: for instance, I'm not accusing the Yankees of being a

837
00:41:07,678 --> 00:41:11,198
Speaker 3: bunch of adrenaline guys, but Houston's a good team. They

838
00:41:11,198 --> 00:41:12,758
Speaker 3: caught him at the right time out of the gate,

839
00:41:12,878 --> 00:41:16,318
Speaker 3: and I liked I always liked to play where I

840
00:41:16,318 --> 00:41:18,358
Speaker 3: proceed to be good teams out of the gate and

841
00:41:18,478 --> 00:41:20,518
Speaker 3: just trap them a little quickly because they haven't gotten

842
00:41:20,518 --> 00:41:23,078
Speaker 3: their feet on the ground. They just not they're not

843
00:41:23,158 --> 00:41:25,038
Speaker 3: as engaged as they might be later on in the year,

844
00:41:25,118 --> 00:41:27,438
Speaker 3: so that's a good time to grab them coming out

845
00:41:27,438 --> 00:41:29,478
Speaker 3: of the gate. So there's a lot of different ways

846
00:41:29,518 --> 00:41:32,758
Speaker 3: to look at all of this, but I when to

847
00:41:32,798 --> 00:41:36,438
Speaker 3: evaluated players early on in this season. You see certain

848
00:41:36,478 --> 00:41:38,558
Speaker 3: guys get off the great starts. It's like, WHOA, I

849
00:41:38,678 --> 00:41:41,878
Speaker 3: wasn't expecting that. Didn't see that. So for me, it's like,

850
00:41:41,958 --> 00:41:44,518
Speaker 3: wait a little bit, two three to week two to

851
00:41:44,558 --> 00:41:45,798
Speaker 3: three weeks, and all of a sudden, we're going to

852
00:41:45,838 --> 00:41:48,078
Speaker 3: find out if it's real or not. Conversely, you get

853
00:41:48,078 --> 00:41:49,438
Speaker 3: the guy that you really think is going to tear

854
00:41:49,478 --> 00:41:51,638
Speaker 3: it up. He gets off to a horrible start, and

855
00:41:51,678 --> 00:41:53,358
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden, two or three weeks later,

856
00:41:53,398 --> 00:41:56,478
Speaker 3: here comes the guy. So that's always been bullpens. I

857
00:41:56,518 --> 00:41:59,238
Speaker 3: mean when it came down to bullpens annually, I would say,

858
00:41:59,278 --> 00:42:00,918
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen here.

859
00:42:00,918 --> 00:42:02,798
Speaker 3: I don't know how gonna use these guys. Yet I

860
00:42:02,838 --> 00:42:05,158
Speaker 3: need about a month to figure out my bullpen because

861
00:42:05,518 --> 00:42:07,318
Speaker 3: guys who think they are gonna be good are are

862
00:42:07,358 --> 00:42:09,438
Speaker 3: not going to be good. And guys you aren't expecting

863
00:42:09,438 --> 00:42:12,678
Speaker 3: anything from Ie for Nanda, Rodney want King, Ben Wall

864
00:42:12,718 --> 00:42:15,718
Speaker 3: all of a sudden become like wow, world beaters. So

865
00:42:16,438 --> 00:42:19,318
Speaker 3: that's the beginning of the baseball season for me. Yes,

866
00:42:19,438 --> 00:42:21,518
Speaker 3: you're always gonna be happy if things break well, but

867
00:42:21,598 --> 00:42:26,038
Speaker 3: always understand that the guy that's really a players him,

868
00:42:26,118 --> 00:42:27,838
Speaker 3: he's not he's going to be again, and the guy

869
00:42:27,838 --> 00:42:29,478
Speaker 3: that has not been be careful.

870
00:42:29,598 --> 00:42:29,758
Speaker 1: Yeah.

871
00:42:29,878 --> 00:42:32,358
Speaker 2: Like what you said about bullpens, especially a new manager

872
00:42:32,438 --> 00:42:35,598
Speaker 2: getting out of the gate, I mean it's bullpen performance

873
00:42:35,638 --> 00:42:38,038
Speaker 2: is fungible year to year. You're not sure who's hot,

874
00:42:38,078 --> 00:42:40,478
Speaker 2: who's not, who's going to pop? As you mentioned, and

875
00:42:40,518 --> 00:42:42,598
Speaker 2: that's what I see with Joe A Spotta with the Astros.

876
00:42:42,758 --> 00:42:45,198
Speaker 2: You know, first six games is the only game he won.

877
00:42:45,318 --> 00:42:48,278
Speaker 2: It took a no hitter to stay out of the bullpen.

878
00:42:48,518 --> 00:42:51,638
Speaker 2: And you know, listen, it's not the same bullpen Dusty

879
00:42:51,678 --> 00:42:53,798
Speaker 2: Baker had last year. So you've got a new manager

880
00:42:54,038 --> 00:42:57,238
Speaker 2: with less of a bullpen, and it's bit him here

881
00:42:57,238 --> 00:42:59,078
Speaker 2: in the first week. But Joe, I always think that

882
00:42:59,078 --> 00:43:01,838
Speaker 2: that is the true test in today's game is how

883
00:43:01,878 --> 00:43:04,478
Speaker 2: a manager runs his bullpen. And sometimes I mean even

884
00:43:04,518 --> 00:43:06,278
Speaker 2: for the best of them. I talked with Bruce Bochie

885
00:43:06,318 --> 00:43:08,838
Speaker 2: the other day. He's kind of figuring out where his

886
00:43:08,878 --> 00:43:11,358
Speaker 2: guys fit and rolls this year already. It takes a

887
00:43:11,438 --> 00:43:14,798
Speaker 2: little bit of time, and you just hope, in Houston's case,

888
00:43:14,958 --> 00:43:16,918
Speaker 2: like they figure it out quickly because it has cost

889
00:43:16,958 --> 00:43:17,758
Speaker 2: them a few games.

890
00:43:18,078 --> 00:43:19,918
Speaker 3: For me, it was a month that was my gig.

891
00:43:20,198 --> 00:43:22,478
Speaker 3: I was patient with it. Of course, you have your

892
00:43:22,598 --> 00:43:24,958
Speaker 3: plan on a nightly basis, and of course you leave

893
00:43:24,998 --> 00:43:27,118
Speaker 3: camp think of certain things. But I'm here to tell

894
00:43:27,158 --> 00:43:29,038
Speaker 3: you that changes, and of course somebody might get hurt

895
00:43:29,038 --> 00:43:32,678
Speaker 3: here or there, but an unexpected performance becomes really pertinent.

896
00:43:32,998 --> 00:43:36,038
Speaker 3: The guy accelerates and on the other side, a guy

897
00:43:36,038 --> 00:43:38,318
Speaker 3: that you really had counted on maybe does not. But

898
00:43:38,358 --> 00:43:40,118
Speaker 3: then again, like last night, was it last night? Did

899
00:43:40,158 --> 00:43:42,598
Speaker 3: Hater give up the home run in the ninth inning

900
00:43:42,798 --> 00:43:44,358
Speaker 3: to the Blue Jays? Was that last night?

901
00:43:45,198 --> 00:43:47,238
Speaker 1: He's had a rough go of it. Out of the gate.

902
00:43:47,318 --> 00:43:48,918
Speaker 3: He gave up a home run a Snyder. It kid

903
00:43:49,038 --> 00:43:50,998
Speaker 3: my name is Schneider on a two strike pitch on

904
00:43:51,078 --> 00:43:53,318
Speaker 3: it on a slider, throws him a slider and the

905
00:43:53,358 --> 00:43:55,278
Speaker 3: guy has it out way out to left central field,

906
00:43:55,318 --> 00:44:00,438
Speaker 3: whereas Hater is obviously fastball is his signature. I know

907
00:44:00,518 --> 00:44:02,798
Speaker 3: he's got a nice slider all that crap, But I

908
00:44:02,878 --> 00:44:04,558
Speaker 3: don't think the Snyder guy hits the ball to the

909
00:44:04,598 --> 00:44:06,718
Speaker 3: ballpark on his fast I'm not second guessing. This is

910
00:44:06,758 --> 00:44:08,998
Speaker 3: just one of my things to get beat on that

911
00:44:09,038 --> 00:44:11,318
Speaker 3: pitch there. I don't think you're going to see that

912
00:44:11,398 --> 00:44:13,878
Speaker 3: again from Hater. So yeah, I'm just I'm off the

913
00:44:13,878 --> 00:44:17,318
Speaker 3: track a little bit. But uh, Hater, really he's that good.

914
00:44:17,558 --> 00:44:20,238
Speaker 3: But last night they lost that game based on I thought,

915
00:44:20,278 --> 00:44:22,918
Speaker 3: really poor pitch selection more than anything. And that's not

916
00:44:23,038 --> 00:44:24,878
Speaker 3: on the manager. You have to it's going to take

917
00:44:24,878 --> 00:44:26,958
Speaker 3: you by the month some guys are going to show.

918
00:44:27,038 --> 00:44:28,878
Speaker 3: Some guys are not, and you got to figure it.

919
00:44:28,878 --> 00:44:29,798
Speaker 1: Out real quickly.

920
00:44:29,838 --> 00:44:31,838
Speaker 2: On the other managers, Mike schilt off to kind of

921
00:44:31,838 --> 00:44:33,918
Speaker 2: a so, so start with San Diego. That's kind of

922
00:44:33,918 --> 00:44:36,038
Speaker 2: what to me. The team that they have. They don't

923
00:44:36,078 --> 00:44:38,718
Speaker 2: have a lot of depth, a lot of star power

924
00:44:38,758 --> 00:44:40,998
Speaker 2: at the top of the rotation and then the lineup,

925
00:44:41,038 --> 00:44:42,878
Speaker 2: but it just falls off a little bit too much

926
00:44:42,878 --> 00:44:44,758
Speaker 2: for me. So they're about where I thought they would be.

927
00:44:45,758 --> 00:44:48,478
Speaker 2: Carlos Mendoza with the New York Mets, this is interesting.

928
00:44:48,598 --> 00:44:51,438
Speaker 1: Joe. Four games in they don't have a win, and

929
00:44:51,558 --> 00:44:54,038
Speaker 1: he's already kind of mulling in his head what he

930
00:44:54,038 --> 00:44:56,598
Speaker 1: should do with his lineup. You know, O'Neil hasn't hit yet,

931
00:44:56,918 --> 00:44:59,918
Speaker 1: and Brett Batty looks like he's had some better swings.

932
00:45:00,478 --> 00:45:03,878
Speaker 1: Four games into the season, first year manager, never manag

933
00:45:04,158 --> 00:45:07,598
Speaker 1: before and already kicking around the ideas of maybe start

934
00:45:07,678 --> 00:45:10,318
Speaker 1: moving people around in his lineup. What do you think

935
00:45:10,358 --> 00:45:10,558
Speaker 1: of that?

936
00:45:10,998 --> 00:45:13,558
Speaker 3: I just told your cards, because what happens there then

937
00:45:13,558 --> 00:45:17,558
Speaker 3: you then the players start getting really confused and and

938
00:45:17,798 --> 00:45:19,798
Speaker 3: see and whatever. I'm here to tell you, man, it's true.

939
00:45:19,798 --> 00:45:22,198
Speaker 3: It happens when you start doing things like that Carl

940
00:45:22,198 --> 00:45:25,238
Speaker 3: Crawford and Boston. When CC went up there, they had

941
00:45:25,318 --> 00:45:27,878
Speaker 3: him hitting secondly key like he normally did, and then

942
00:45:27,918 --> 00:45:29,118
Speaker 3: gets off to a rough start and all of a

943
00:45:29,118 --> 00:45:31,118
Speaker 3: sudden they move him down. I thought, I said, that's it.

944
00:45:31,238 --> 00:45:34,998
Speaker 3: Forget about it. That was the situation, big free agent.

945
00:45:35,198 --> 00:45:38,118
Speaker 3: I know he stinks right now, whatever, whatever, whatever, But

946
00:45:38,278 --> 00:45:40,638
Speaker 3: when you know the know who you're talking to, know

947
00:45:40,718 --> 00:45:43,198
Speaker 3: the pupil, know what it's going to do to him

948
00:45:43,718 --> 00:45:46,638
Speaker 3: internally mentally. If in fact, you make what seems to

949
00:45:46,638 --> 00:45:50,638
Speaker 3: be kind of a innocuous change to a major league

950
00:45:50,638 --> 00:45:53,798
Speaker 3: baseball player like that, it's not. It's really gonna it's

951
00:45:53,798 --> 00:45:56,678
Speaker 3: gonna cut a little bit. So when you start wanting

952
00:45:56,678 --> 00:46:00,798
Speaker 3: to rearrange the deck chairs, be careful. And again it's

953
00:46:00,838 --> 00:46:04,278
Speaker 3: like I'm saying McNeil's going to hit. He's not hitting that.

954
00:46:04,278 --> 00:46:08,758
Speaker 3: That's an adrenaline situation. As a veteran, he's a regular guy. Whatever,

955
00:46:08,918 --> 00:46:11,718
Speaker 3: he's got a hit, Just leave him alone where you

956
00:46:11,798 --> 00:46:13,598
Speaker 3: like him to, leave him there, it's gonna happen. If

957
00:46:13,638 --> 00:46:15,158
Speaker 3: you want to give Hi a day off, that's different.

958
00:46:15,438 --> 00:46:16,798
Speaker 3: They just give him a day off, go up and

959
00:46:16,838 --> 00:46:19,038
Speaker 3: say listen, man, you might be pressing a little bit.

960
00:46:19,598 --> 00:46:21,158
Speaker 3: This might be a good time for you just to

961
00:46:21,238 --> 00:46:23,038
Speaker 3: just watch a Major League Baseball game. I use it

962
00:46:23,078 --> 00:46:25,118
Speaker 3: if we need you. But that would mean to be

963
00:46:25,158 --> 00:46:27,998
Speaker 3: a better way than to rearrange the chair with him.

964
00:46:28,398 --> 00:46:31,118
Speaker 3: So those are the different options you have. It's like

965
00:46:31,198 --> 00:46:33,438
Speaker 3: to give guys a day off or just talk to them,

966
00:46:34,158 --> 00:46:36,558
Speaker 3: reassure them how much you believe in them. But yeah,

967
00:46:36,718 --> 00:46:39,718
Speaker 3: it's when you start going in that direction. For as

968
00:46:39,758 --> 00:46:42,438
Speaker 3: simple as it sounds, it could really get into some

969
00:46:42,438 --> 00:46:43,078
Speaker 3: guys heads.

970
00:46:43,318 --> 00:46:45,918
Speaker 2: Yeah, great point. And listen, I'm like a lot of people.

971
00:46:45,918 --> 00:46:49,758
Speaker 2: I love the inner workings of lineups and you know,

972
00:46:50,038 --> 00:46:52,238
Speaker 2: combinations of players and the way it works. But as

973
00:46:52,278 --> 00:46:55,158
Speaker 2: you know, the bottom line is you're moving guys in

974
00:46:55,198 --> 00:46:57,998
Speaker 2: the lineup has a very little effect on the actual

975
00:46:58,118 --> 00:47:00,678
Speaker 2: playing out of the game. Now, it may have an

976
00:47:00,678 --> 00:47:03,878
Speaker 2: effect mentally on a player, positively or negatively, but there's

977
00:47:04,038 --> 00:47:06,278
Speaker 2: so much made out of it, much more than I

978
00:47:06,278 --> 00:47:09,998
Speaker 2: think the actual tangible results. That when you're in New York,

979
00:47:10,118 --> 00:47:12,918
Speaker 2: especially Joe, and you know this, you've gone through big cities,

980
00:47:14,198 --> 00:47:16,598
Speaker 2: the attention there is so extreme. And this is all

981
00:47:16,598 --> 00:47:19,398
Speaker 2: we have now is a four game sample. The tendency

982
00:47:19,678 --> 00:47:21,438
Speaker 2: is to probably give the noise a little bit too

983
00:47:21,558 --> 00:47:23,878
Speaker 2: much credit, if that's the right word.

984
00:47:24,678 --> 00:47:27,118
Speaker 1: One more manager for you, Bob Melvin. I actually like

985
00:47:27,198 --> 00:47:28,078
Speaker 1: the Giants this year.

986
00:47:28,758 --> 00:47:31,878
Speaker 2: I think if the way the offseason played out for them,

987
00:47:32,318 --> 00:47:34,998
Speaker 2: they get some good additions. They're getting Blake Snell back

988
00:47:35,078 --> 00:47:37,038
Speaker 2: next week to make his first start. They got him

989
00:47:37,038 --> 00:47:40,798
Speaker 2: on a cheap contract. They got Celaire Chapman on undervalued contracts.

990
00:47:41,078 --> 00:47:44,438
Speaker 2: I like Melvin there, and listen, I think this team

991
00:47:44,518 --> 00:47:46,558
Speaker 2: could be. It wouldn't surprise me if they're in the

992
00:47:46,558 --> 00:47:48,358
Speaker 2: wildcard spot at the end of the year. I think

993
00:47:48,398 --> 00:47:51,198
Speaker 2: the Giants are a potential postseason team. So not off

994
00:47:51,198 --> 00:47:54,078
Speaker 2: to a great start, but I do like the roster here.

995
00:47:54,118 --> 00:47:56,118
Speaker 2: But this is what caught made Joe. You're gonna love this.

996
00:47:56,958 --> 00:48:00,158
Speaker 2: The Giants were trailing by one run in the seventh inning.

997
00:48:00,198 --> 00:48:02,998
Speaker 2: Towards the bottom of their lineup, Patrick Bailey was at

998
00:48:03,038 --> 00:48:07,158
Speaker 2: bet first and second, nobody out and Bob Melvin actually

999
00:48:07,198 --> 00:48:08,638
Speaker 2: put a sacrifice bunt on.

1000
00:48:09,318 --> 00:48:09,478
Speaker 3: Now.

1001
00:48:09,478 --> 00:48:13,158
Speaker 2: The hitter behind him was Nick Ahmed, Who's, let's face it,

1002
00:48:13,438 --> 00:48:16,398
Speaker 2: a glove guy, right. He's a defense first guy with

1003
00:48:16,438 --> 00:48:18,678
Speaker 2: a little bit of a stick. He knocked in the

1004
00:48:18,758 --> 00:48:21,558
Speaker 2: run with the base hit tie the game, and then

1005
00:48:21,718 --> 00:48:23,878
Speaker 2: Jhen Hu Lee puts them ahead with a sack fly.

1006
00:48:24,678 --> 00:48:27,518
Speaker 2: I mean, this would I'm telling you, folks, this would

1007
00:48:27,518 --> 00:48:32,678
Speaker 2: not happen with a far hans Ad manager like Gabe Kepler.

1008
00:48:32,838 --> 00:48:35,238
Speaker 2: You know that just the analytics would tell you, don't

1009
00:48:35,238 --> 00:48:37,678
Speaker 2: bunt in that situation, you're down a run, don't give

1010
00:48:37,758 --> 00:48:40,358
Speaker 2: up an out, you're bunding to the bottom of the lineup.

1011
00:48:40,958 --> 00:48:42,318
Speaker 1: But it worked out perfectly.

1012
00:48:42,398 --> 00:48:45,278
Speaker 2: And I love the fact that now the Giants have

1013
00:48:45,358 --> 00:48:47,958
Speaker 2: a manager with a lot of experience, a ton of experience,

1014
00:48:48,398 --> 00:48:51,758
Speaker 2: who is empowered if he sees something to go ahead

1015
00:48:51,798 --> 00:48:56,078
Speaker 2: and do something and not worry about the consequences of

1016
00:48:56,118 --> 00:48:57,358
Speaker 2: what happens if it didn't work out.

1017
00:48:57,398 --> 00:48:58,718
Speaker 1: In this case, it did work out.

1018
00:48:59,078 --> 00:49:01,238
Speaker 2: But I just love the fact that he was able

1019
00:49:01,278 --> 00:49:03,318
Speaker 2: to put on a play that we don't see a lot,

1020
00:49:03,918 --> 00:49:05,958
Speaker 2: that a lot of the analytics community would not like.

1021
00:49:06,638 --> 00:49:08,838
Speaker 2: And let's remove the fact that it worked. I just

1022
00:49:08,998 --> 00:49:11,118
Speaker 2: like the fact that he was empowered to make that decision.

1023
00:49:11,478 --> 00:49:14,038
Speaker 3: There you go, he was able to put the play on.

1024
00:49:14,118 --> 00:49:16,878
Speaker 3: That's that's kind of like humorous in a sense. He's

1025
00:49:16,918 --> 00:49:18,598
Speaker 3: the manager, he should be the manager, he should be

1026
00:49:18,638 --> 00:49:20,438
Speaker 3: able to run the game as he sees fit. But

1027
00:49:20,958 --> 00:49:22,758
Speaker 3: as you suggest that there's a lot of answering that

1028
00:49:22,798 --> 00:49:26,238
Speaker 3: has to happen afterward. I would bet that you know, Bailey,

1029
00:49:26,318 --> 00:49:28,518
Speaker 3: I don't know what's going on, even who's the picture was.

1030
00:49:29,198 --> 00:49:32,518
Speaker 3: That's all this to be consideration. And he didn't like

1031
00:49:32,558 --> 00:49:34,838
Speaker 3: the matchup. The guy's not swinging the bat well for

1032
00:49:34,918 --> 00:49:36,958
Speaker 3: weird reasons. He might have liked the guy on it

1033
00:49:37,118 --> 00:49:39,478
Speaker 3: on the on this pitcher as opposed to the other

1034
00:49:39,478 --> 00:49:41,878
Speaker 3: way around, and he just planned basically trying to play

1035
00:49:41,918 --> 00:49:43,438
Speaker 3: for a type. They're down by one run even if

1036
00:49:43,438 --> 00:49:45,238
Speaker 3: they got too but he was he would have taken

1037
00:49:45,238 --> 00:49:47,878
Speaker 3: one right there. Maybe Bailey was a strong double play

1038
00:49:47,918 --> 00:49:51,078
Speaker 3: candidate if the if the pitch was a solid ground

1039
00:49:51,118 --> 00:49:53,638
Speaker 3: ball pitcher, and it looked like maybe on his sheet

1040
00:49:53,678 --> 00:49:56,798
Speaker 3: was a hyperpensity ground ball situation with the high number

1041
00:49:56,798 --> 00:49:59,638
Speaker 3: on the DPS with Bailey versus that guy, these are

1042
00:49:59,678 --> 00:50:01,958
Speaker 3: the things that I would look at too. So you

1043
00:50:02,038 --> 00:50:04,118
Speaker 3: take all that information in and then you make the

1044
00:50:03,918 --> 00:50:06,558
Speaker 3: the decision in that particular moment. And that's where I

1045
00:50:06,638 --> 00:50:09,118
Speaker 3: like analytics like I've always had with I think it

1046
00:50:09,238 --> 00:50:13,198
Speaker 3: started with the race I used to get a on

1047
00:50:13,238 --> 00:50:17,958
Speaker 3: my sheet was a projection ground ball number versus this

1048
00:50:18,118 --> 00:50:20,998
Speaker 3: pitcher versus this hitter with the starting pitcher as well

1049
00:50:21,038 --> 00:50:23,158
Speaker 3: as all the bullpen guys. So if it got to

1050
00:50:23,198 --> 00:50:27,038
Speaker 3: a ground ball situation, a potential double play situation like that,

1051
00:50:27,078 --> 00:50:29,278
Speaker 3: I may but him or full count. Do I want

1052
00:50:29,318 --> 00:50:31,158
Speaker 3: to start the runner or not? Do I want the

1053
00:50:31,158 --> 00:50:35,038
Speaker 3: guy in motion because it's low strikeout probability, high probability

1054
00:50:35,038 --> 00:50:36,838
Speaker 3: ball on the ground, I'm going to start the runner.

1055
00:50:37,278 --> 00:50:39,518
Speaker 3: That helped me make that kind of a decision. That's

1056
00:50:39,638 --> 00:50:42,998
Speaker 3: like part of the analytical world that's not spoken about,

1057
00:50:42,998 --> 00:50:44,758
Speaker 3: but those are the kind of things that I really did.

1058
00:50:44,838 --> 00:50:47,838
Speaker 3: Like So, I don't know what kind of info Bawmil had,

1059
00:50:48,038 --> 00:50:51,278
Speaker 3: but hey, years ago, Bowmell were playing in at Tampa

1060
00:50:51,318 --> 00:50:54,838
Speaker 3: Bay and I brought in Joe praulted a pitch and

1061
00:50:54,958 --> 00:50:57,438
Speaker 3: d had a left hander up, and I don't know,

1062
00:50:57,518 --> 00:50:59,198
Speaker 3: Johnny Gomes was coming up, and I thought he's going

1063
00:50:59,238 --> 00:51:00,518
Speaker 3: to throw a left handed hitter in there and hit

1064
00:51:00,558 --> 00:51:02,718
Speaker 3: against john But he was smart. He left Gomer in

1065
00:51:02,798 --> 00:51:06,278
Speaker 3: there because Joe was a tremendous reverse split guy. He

1066
00:51:06,358 --> 00:51:08,518
Speaker 3: was much better against lefties, And I thought that's what

1067
00:51:08,518 --> 00:51:10,958
Speaker 3: they're going to do, but they didn't like Gomer standing game,

1068
00:51:10,958 --> 00:51:12,078
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, the balls in the left

1069
00:51:12,118 --> 00:51:15,358
Speaker 3: center field bleachers at the trop So you get that

1070
00:51:15,438 --> 00:51:17,758
Speaker 3: kind of intel info. That to me is where it's

1071
00:51:17,838 --> 00:51:20,878
Speaker 3: an in game important and you have to be aware

1072
00:51:20,878 --> 00:51:23,318
Speaker 3: of that before the game begins to make it happen

1073
00:51:23,398 --> 00:51:26,078
Speaker 3: so quickly in that moment. But that's an exactly just

1074
00:51:26,278 --> 00:51:28,478
Speaker 3: I'm pointing out Bomel because that's what he did versus

1075
00:51:28,518 --> 00:51:31,558
Speaker 3: the Rays several years ago. So he pays attention to

1076
00:51:31,598 --> 00:51:32,118
Speaker 3: things like that.

1077
00:51:32,478 --> 00:51:34,798
Speaker 2: So it was always fun talking to you about strategy,

1078
00:51:34,958 --> 00:51:39,358
Speaker 2: about game preparation. You're a truth teller and you always

1079
00:51:39,398 --> 00:51:42,958
Speaker 2: bring a really really interesting take on what goes on

1080
00:51:43,038 --> 00:51:45,518
Speaker 2: to that Dugout appreciate it for these first year managers,

1081
00:51:45,998 --> 00:51:48,118
Speaker 2: not first year, but a lot of them. With the

1082
00:51:48,118 --> 00:51:50,518
Speaker 2: first club getting off to a good start to me

1083
00:51:50,638 --> 00:51:52,638
Speaker 2: is paramount more than most clubs. So we'll see what

1084
00:51:52,678 --> 00:51:55,118
Speaker 2: happens with those teams. In the meantime, I'm going to

1085
00:51:55,158 --> 00:51:57,398
Speaker 2: ask you to close this one out as I always do, Joe,

1086
00:51:57,478 --> 00:51:59,318
Speaker 2: and see what you've gotten in store for us. To

1087
00:51:59,358 --> 00:52:03,518
Speaker 2: say goodbye on this latest episode of the Book of Joe.

1088
00:52:03,998 --> 00:52:06,918
Speaker 3: Last diatribe I just went through. It sets this up perfectly.

1089
00:52:07,718 --> 00:52:11,358
Speaker 3: It's ad Malcolm Gladwell thing. And I loved this, of

1090
00:52:11,398 --> 00:52:15,398
Speaker 3: course I did, because Gladwell wrote it. Our unconscious reactions

1091
00:52:15,998 --> 00:52:18,438
Speaker 3: come out of a locked room, and we can't look

1092
00:52:18,478 --> 00:52:22,438
Speaker 3: inside that room. But with experience, we become expert at

1093
00:52:22,518 --> 00:52:27,078
Speaker 3: using our behavior and our training to interpret and decode

1094
00:52:27,918 --> 00:52:31,478
Speaker 3: what lies behind our judgment and our first impressions. So

1095
00:52:31,798 --> 00:52:35,038
Speaker 3: again we're talking about intuitive thinking in the moment based

1096
00:52:35,078 --> 00:52:38,198
Speaker 3: on our years of experience. So it's an unconscious reaction

1097
00:52:38,358 --> 00:52:42,598
Speaker 3: that's I was thinking about situations today like I was

1098
00:52:42,598 --> 00:52:44,438
Speaker 3: brought up the other day. I was talking to BK

1099
00:52:44,678 --> 00:52:48,518
Speaker 3: on the MLB network and they're talking about whether to

1100
00:52:48,558 --> 00:52:50,918
Speaker 3: have pitched too soda or not to walk them and

1101
00:52:50,958 --> 00:52:53,558
Speaker 3: pitch the judge. And I didn't like that, and this

1102
00:52:53,718 --> 00:52:56,198
Speaker 3: kind of precipitated me into going in this direction right here,

1103
00:52:56,358 --> 00:52:58,958
Speaker 3: the unconscious reactions that we do make. And I said

1104
00:52:58,998 --> 00:53:00,598
Speaker 3: that I may have done something like that had I

1105
00:53:00,638 --> 00:53:03,118
Speaker 3: thought about it in advance, which is kind of like

1106
00:53:03,158 --> 00:53:06,198
Speaker 3: countered this right here. But they were promoting the fact

1107
00:53:06,198 --> 00:53:08,478
Speaker 3: that they would have walked soda to pitch the Aaron judgment.

1108
00:53:08,718 --> 00:53:10,918
Speaker 3: No way, you're only saying that because you got to

1109
00:53:10,998 --> 00:53:14,918
Speaker 3: hit so anyway, all that weird stuff caused me to

1110
00:53:14,918 --> 00:53:18,158
Speaker 3: go in this direction today and pretty much to trust

1111
00:53:18,318 --> 00:53:22,038
Speaker 3: and your own judgment in the moment, because your intuitive

1112
00:53:22,078 --> 00:53:25,798
Speaker 3: thinking really does matter. Your snap judgments are more than

1113
00:53:25,798 --> 00:53:27,038
Speaker 3: that when it really comes down.

1114
00:53:26,918 --> 00:53:30,238
Speaker 2: To it, especially with experience, right, you're able to kind

1115
00:53:30,238 --> 00:53:32,798
Speaker 2: of put weight to those so called gut feelings that

1116
00:53:32,838 --> 00:53:32,998
Speaker 2: you have.

1117
00:53:33,078 --> 00:53:35,438
Speaker 3: That's correct, that's what he did, That's what Bomel did.

1118
00:53:35,558 --> 00:53:37,878
Speaker 2: Awesome stuff, Joe, great job. We'll see you next time.

1119
00:53:37,798 --> 00:53:39,198
Speaker 3: Right, Buddy, Good to see you man. Thanks.

1120
00:53:46,158 --> 00:53:49,358
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeart Radio.

1121
00:53:49,598 --> 00:53:53,438
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1122
00:53:53,478 --> 00:53:56,478
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