1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,279 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson, So Tracy. 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: Humans have understood the passage of time and been able 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: to calculate the length of a day pretty accurately for 6 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: quite a while. Yea longer than we have records, probably, yes, 7 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: But there was not a standard way to approach time 8 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: on a global scale until pretty late in the game. 9 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: For hundreds of years longer than that, even cities or 10 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: towns generally had their own local time. That time was 11 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: determined by when the sun hit at zenith above them, 12 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: and that was established as noon, and the rest of 13 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: the hours of the day were determined based on that. 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: Pretty simple. Each municipality or community had an official timekeeper. 15 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: That person was the authority on what time it was. 16 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: Any other clocks are watches in that community were set 17 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: to match the timekeeper's time. That kept everybody in a 18 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: group on the same page. However, though this worked just 19 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: fine and for a very long time. As humans began 20 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: to industrialize and travel became more swift, thanks largely two railroads, 21 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: it became much more important to figure out what time 22 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: it was both in the place where your journey started 23 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: and the place where it ended, as well as any 24 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: stops in between, and that could rapidly get really confusing. So, 25 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: just as a very sloppy example, imagine a journey today 26 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: where you have a flight with a layover, and if 27 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: you left your starting airport and you got to the 28 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: layover airport and their time was twenty three minutes off 29 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: of what you expected, because often they were not like 30 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: round numbers that were different, figuring out your connection could 31 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: get really dicey in a hurry. And that kind of 32 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: thing was happening to people traveling by rail before a 33 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: standard time was established, and it was more than just 34 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: an inconvenience because this also led to dangerous conditions and 35 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: collisions when trains were running based on different local times 36 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 1: but on the same track. So even the people that 37 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: were scheduling trains couldn't quite get it together with one 38 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: another to make a system to make it safe for 39 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: a while. So today we're going to talk about that problem, 40 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: and specifically about the man who is usually credited with 41 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: solving the problem by standardizing time zones, and that person 42 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: was Sandford Fleming. Sanford Fleming was born January seven, eight seven, 43 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: in Kirkcaldy, five Scotland. Parents were Elizabeth Aren't Fleming and 44 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: Andrew Greig Fleming. Andrew was a carpenter. The Flemings had 45 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 1: a sizeable family. In addition to Sandford, there were seven 46 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: other children. Sanford's early education was in school in Kennaway 47 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: and Killcaldy, and then at fourteen he started studying with 48 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: an engineer and surveyor named John Sang. This was a 49 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: natural fit even as a child, Sandford had shown a 50 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: natural skill at drawing and mathematics alike. Yeah, kind of 51 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: perfectly intersect into like surveying and architecture work. Saying gave 52 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: Fleming a lot of practical, really valuable hands on instruction. 53 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: Scotland's railroads were rapidly expanding at this time, and when 54 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: Saying was called the survey sites as part of that project, 55 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: his student went with him and he assisted. He was 56 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: given tasks on site, but Fleming saw a future for 57 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: himself outside of Scotland, even though he did enjoy surveying. 58 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: After several years under Saying's mentorship, Sandford moved from Scotland 59 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: to Canada in eight He did not make this journey alone. 60 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: His cousin Henry Fleming and his brother David also moved 61 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: to Canada with him. All three young men were hoping 62 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: to find employment and new opportunities in North America, and 63 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: they were all so hoping that they would be able 64 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: to acquire land and become settled enough that the rest 65 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: of their family could join them. The Fleming trio sailed 66 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: aboard a ship called the Brilliant, and this was not 67 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: an easy journey. On May one, which was only a 68 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: week into the voyage, Sandford recorded this in his journal quote, 69 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: as the evening advanced, the storm grew worse. I never 70 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: expected to see daylight again. When a great wave swept 71 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: above our heads, it had a sound as if the 72 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: sea was closing over us. We slept none all night. 73 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: Sandford is said to have been so convinced that they 74 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: were all about to die that he put a message 75 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: in a bottle and threw it overboard. Has had a 76 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: farewell letter to the family in it, and that bottle 77 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: did get to Scotland, But it looks like by the 78 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: time the family received it, they knew that Sandford, David, 79 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: and Henry had all gotten to Canada safely. Yet that 80 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: was a long trip though. That was a five week 81 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: long trip, so after this we think we're gonna die night. 82 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: They still had four more weeks at sea to probably 83 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: white knuckle it through the entire journey, and then after 84 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: landing in Quebec City, the three young men had another 85 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: three weeks of travel ahead of them. They boarded a 86 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: steamship to what was at the time called Upper Canada 87 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 1: that would eventually be Ontario, and that was to the 88 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: city of Peterborough. They're Fleming found work with a surveyor 89 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: named Richard Birdsall. Fleming needed to be certified as a 90 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: surveyor in Canada to work on his own, and that 91 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: was going to take some money and some time and 92 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 1: some experience, and to help cover his basic expenses, he 93 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: took sidework in map making jobs so that he could 94 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: bring in extra money. He drew maps of various municipalities, 95 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 1: including Peterborough, Hamilton, Cobourg, and Toronto. And it was also 96 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: in Toronto that he moved into a new job working 97 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: for a surveyor named John Stouton Dennis. Finally, on April nine, 98 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: Fleming got his Canadian Surveyors ortification. Almost immediately after being certified, 99 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: Fleming joined with other surveyors they formed the Canadian Institute 100 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 1: in Toronto. This was intended as a professional organization for surveyors, 101 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: engineers and architects. The society was founded in June of 102 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: eighteen forty nine, but it didn't get the membership and 103 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: structure that was needed to be recognized as a professional society. 104 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 1: Fleming was not willing to let the group fall apart, 105 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: so he reorganized it as a scientific society and remained 106 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: involved with it in the fifteen years that he lived 107 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: in Toronto. He also spearheaded the group's production of its periodical, 108 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: which was just titled Canadian Journal. Two professional achievements marked 109 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: Fleming's life in eighteen fifty one. First, the map of 110 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: Toronto that he had worked on with John Stotton Dennis, 111 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: which was the last of those map projects that he 112 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: had done as sidework, was published, and then he designed 113 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,119 Speaker 1: the first Canadian postage stamp. He sometimes credited with making 114 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: the beaver like the landmark animal of Canada and their 115 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: unofficial mascot at that point. In eighteen fifty two, Sandford 116 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: Fleming started working for the Ontario, Simcoe and Huron Union 117 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: Railroad as an assistant to Frederick William Cumberland. He had 118 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: been one of his collaborators and setting up the Canadian Institute. 119 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: They're working relationship, though, was really not good. Fleming became 120 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: increasingly irritated with Cumberland, who often took a lot of 121 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,559 Speaker 1: side jobs that split his attention off from their railroad work. 122 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: Things became so heated between them that Cumberland fired Fleming 123 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty five, but Fleming felt that his supervisor 124 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: had been the one who was in the wrong, and 125 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,239 Speaker 1: he went to the railroad's leadership to complain. The result 126 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: of this seemed like a win for Fleming. He was 127 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: given Cumberland's job, but Cumberland was on the railways board 128 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: of directors, and over the next few years the two 129 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: of them just kept clashing more and more. Fleming was 130 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: ultimately the one who lost in their disputes. Yeah, there 131 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: was a particularly contentious argument about pay that he really 132 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: really thought Cumberland was responsible for and he did not 133 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: win that one, and it really stung. And as that 134 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: conflict between Fleming and Cumberland had continued to grow, Fleming 135 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: had been allowed to stay with the railroad as an 136 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,239 Speaker 1: employee that had become the Northern railway at that point, 137 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: but he was also allowed with permission to take side jobs. 138 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: This was different for him and that he had gotten 139 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 1: permission to do this, whereas Cumberland was just taking jobs 140 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: whenever he wanted, so he saw it as a different situation. 141 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: And Fleming had also started his own private firm with 142 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: a colleague named Collingwood Schreiber. The two of them designed 143 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: the Palace of Industry for Toronto in eighteen fifty eight. 144 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: If you look at photos of this particular structure, it 145 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: probably looks very familiar because it was based on Joseph 146 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: Paxton's Crystal Palace created for London's Great Exhibition of eighteen 147 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: fifty one, which we have talked about on the show before. 148 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: Fleming continued his railway work for decades. He thought it 149 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: was important to expand the railroads, and in particular to 150 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: establish a transcontinental railway. Fleming duet plans for various very 151 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: ambitious railway projects and lobbied the government both in Canada 152 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: and in Britain for funding for these projects. Initially, he 153 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: struggled to get approvals, but he was making a name 154 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,719 Speaker 1: for himself in the process. When it became really an 155 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: obvious and pressing need for a railway to connect Canada's 156 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: continental colonies to the maritime colonies. Sanford Fleming was the 157 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 1: obvious choice to everybody to become the chief surveyor for 158 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 1: the project. He was given that job in eighteen sixty three, 159 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: and in eighteen sixty seven he was promoted to Engineer 160 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: in chief for the Intercolonial Railway. And despite the various conflicts, 161 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: he was growing quite successful. And as that success grew, 162 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,559 Speaker 1: Fleming wisely invested in real estate that not only expanded 163 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: his wealth, but it also made some strategic sense for 164 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: his work. He wasn't like buying speculating on real estate. 165 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: He was buying basically land for himself in various places. 166 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: He had moved to Ottawa in eighteen sixty nine. That 167 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: was a move that was pretty necessary because he needed 168 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: to be closed to federal government offices for the work 169 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: he was doing in In eighteen seventy four, he also 170 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: bought a home in Halifax, Nova Scotia, so that when 171 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: he traveled there for work on the ongoing Maritimes project, 172 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: he would have a home base. And he also, as 173 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: had been planned, moved his family over to Canada and 174 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: settled them in Halifax. We'll pause here for a quick 175 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: sponsor break, and when we come back, we'll talk about 176 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: the ways that Sanford Fleming came into conflict with his colleagues, which, 177 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: based on the conflict so far, seems a little unsurprising 178 00:10:51,160 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: they would continue. Fleming, who was known to be obstinate 179 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: but also often right, continued to butt heads with various 180 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: peers in the industry. This seems to have pretty much 181 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: always been a case of Fleming being certain that he 182 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 1: knew better than the other party what was genuinely best 183 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: for any given project. For example, when commissioners of the 184 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: National Railway wanted to use timber for the construction of 185 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: bridges as part of the Intercolonial Railway project, Fleming was 186 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: adamant that they should be using steel and stone instead, 187 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 1: and he went right up the chain of command in 188 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: Ottawa government to make that case. Fleming got his way, 189 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: and as a consequence, those structures were far sturdier and 190 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: had longer life than was projected had the bridges been 191 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: built with timber. This, of course, seems pretty obvious now, 192 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: but in the late eighteen sixties the cost difference was 193 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 1: so significant that it was considered a better idea by 194 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: a lot of people to use Timber Sandford fleming approach, 195 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: which also involves some new engineering techniques that he was pioneering, 196 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: resulted in bridges that were strong enough and with enough 197 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: longevity that they actually cost less to maintain over the 198 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: long term. Even though he was having a proven track record, 199 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: the railways kept seeing Fleming as a problem. After he 200 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: became the chief engineer on the Pacific Railway. Fleming was 201 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: very outspoken about his ideals, and a friend of his, 202 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: Reverend George Grant, even published a book detailing the reverence 203 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 1: travels with Fleming as he made his surveys. That book 204 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: was the best seller. It's noted as giving a lot 205 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: of insight into the railroads and its benefits to the 206 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: general public, but the railroad did not appreciate moves like that. 207 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: The railroad found Fleming's constant willingness to just share his 208 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 1: views with the public to be a problem. He worked 209 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: for the railroad, but he wasn't approved to be a 210 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: spokesman for the railroad, and that created issues as his 211 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 1: outspokenness made him the face of the railroads to the public. 212 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: He was let go in May of eighteen eighty with 213 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 1: a retirement severance of thirty thousand dollars. This is one 214 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: of those things that I think if you've never worked 215 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: in a corporate structure, you might be like, why shouldn't he? 216 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: But if there are always people, I mean, it would 217 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: be like me if I just started shooting my mouth 218 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: off about the way like our company runs part of 219 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: its business, and they would be like, Holly, that's not 220 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: your business, shut up, um, And that would be valid 221 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: because it's not my business. Every company I've worked for 222 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: has had rules about like what kind of thing you're not, 223 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: whether you're allowed to speak on behalf of the company, 224 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: and if you are allowed, there's still a bunch of 225 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: rules about it. He may have been the expert, but 226 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: he was a stracy just said, not designated as a spokesman. 227 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: So for him to just go blab stuff all the 228 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: time was really problematic. But just four years after this devastating, 229 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: essentially firing, they framed in as a retirement and he 230 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: got severance, but he had really been fired of Four 231 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: years later, Fleming, who had actually continued to have a 232 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: stake in the Canadian Pacific Railway, became director of the 233 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: Canadian Pacific Railway. He had purchased shares in the Hudson's 234 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: Bay Company. That company had transferred massive land holdings to 235 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: the Canadian government in the eighteen seventies. The Canadian Pacific 236 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: Railway Company was incorporated in eighteen eighty one by Act 237 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: of Parliament, and so he was connected to all of 238 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: this by virtue of having had those shares. Fleming had 239 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: served in a role as resident Canadian director with Hudson's Bay, 240 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: and he applied for the Canadian Pacific Railway director position 241 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: in eighty three and got it. So, if you're thinking 242 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: I thought this episode was about time zones, why have 243 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: we been talking about railroads this whole time, it's because 244 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: the railroad work is directly tied to the establishment of 245 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: standardized time. As a career railroad man who traveled a lot, 246 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: Fleming had a deep appreciation for how tricky and can 247 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: using it could be to reconcile the local time and 248 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: whatever place that was he were traveling. And when it 249 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: came to running an entire unified transportation system had to 250 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: go in and out of a variety of places that 251 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: all kept their own local time, this whole task was 252 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: a huge headache. You can see where someone building a 253 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: railroad would be like wait, but what time is it 254 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: where this station is, Well, it's seventeen minutes later than 255 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: at the previous station, Holly, oh Okay. Even before he 256 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: had been let go from the railroad in eighteen eighty, 257 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: Fleming was taking on new roles outside of the industry. 258 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: In eighteen seventy nine, Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario asked 259 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: him to become chancellor. That kind of made him the 260 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: spokesperson for science and professional education for the school. He 261 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: was really active in that position for the rest of 262 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: his life and helped to establish the School of Mining 263 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: and Agriculture there, and he lobbied for financial support for 264 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: the university science programs. Also in eighteen seventy nine, Daniel 265 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: Wilson reinstated Fleming at the Canadian Institute. Wilson, like Fleming, 266 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: thought there should be standardized time. Because Fleming was already 267 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: seen as a scientific authority by both the public and 268 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: by a lot of his peers. All of these developments 269 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: coming at the same time really made the late eighteen 270 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: seventies the right moment for Fleming to make a case 271 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: for a standardized time around the world. There were two 272 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: different and separately prepared reports that were published in eighteen 273 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: seventy nine about the problem of their not being a 274 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: standardized time. One of those was written by Fleming, the 275 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: other was written by chief of the United States Weather Service, 276 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: Cleveland Abbey. Fleming read his report in front of the 277 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: Canadian Institute, and then it went to the Governor General 278 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: and then up to the Colonial Office. Throughout its movement 279 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: and its distribution, the reception to this paper was extremely good. 280 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: Everyone agreed that something needed to be done to get 281 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: people on one unified system. Abby was also getting positive 282 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: reactions to his paper, which he first presented to the 283 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: American Meteorological Society. His impetus for writing this report was 284 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: a series of observations on the Northern Lights, and because 285 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: of a lack of an agreed upon meantime, reports from 286 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: different places were almost impossible to reconcile to compile actual data. 287 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 1: While Fleming wanted to help the train industry, Abby wanted 288 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: to create a stronger guideline for time based science reporting. 289 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 1: But once Abby and Fleming realized that each of them 290 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: had written on this subject and had also used very 291 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: similar ideas about how to accomplish a global system of time, 292 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: they didn't do what you might expect if you've listened 293 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: to previous episodes featuring scholars who have similar ideals, and honestly, 294 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: if you've listened to the earlier part of this episode 295 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: about how uh kind of argumentative that Fleming could be. 296 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: They did not have a fight about it. They joined forces. 297 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: The two men had a lot of connections throughout North 298 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: America and Europe. They had these connections in both government 299 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: and the scientific communities. They knew if they widened those 300 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: connections and if they lobbied for the adoption of time 301 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: standards as a team, they could have a really wide 302 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: net of influence. Yeah, it was like, you have a 303 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: whole group of people that you con curry favor with. 304 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: I also have a different group of people. What if 305 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: we put these all together? How big will our influence be? Now? 306 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: Just to be clear, these papers that came out that 307 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: same year did not just spring up out of the blue. 308 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 1: Both of these men and others had been working on 309 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: this idea and writing about it for some time before 310 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy nine. Usually people will point to eighteen seventy six, 311 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: when Fleming had published a paper called Terrest Real Time, 312 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: which opened with quote, the question to which I proposed 313 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: to direct attention is not purely English in its interest, 314 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: or indeed limited to any particular country or continent. It 315 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: is a question which concerns all nations in common, and 316 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: it is probably of less importance to the inhabitants of 317 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: the British Isles than to colonists and those who live 318 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: in continental countries. It went on to say, quote, within 319 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: a comparatively recent period, the human race has acquired control 320 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: over a power which already has in a remarkable degree 321 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: changed the condition of human affairs. The application of steam 322 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: to locomotion by land and water has given an enormous 323 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: stimulus to progress throughout the world, and with the electric 324 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: telegraph as an auxiliary, has somewhat rudely shaken customs and 325 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 1: habits which have been handed down to us from bygone centuries. 326 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: We still cling, however, to the system of chronometry inherited 327 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: from a remote antiquity, notwithstanding difficulties and inconveniences which are 328 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 1: constantly met in every part of the world, but which 329 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 1: are so familiar to us that they are not regarded 330 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: or are silently endured. It's a very long winded way 331 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: to say you don't have to miss your trains all 332 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: the time. We can miss this. We don't have to 333 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: keep doing it this way just because the way we've 334 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: the way we've done it for so long. Yeah. Fleming's 335 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: work on this subject was more extensive than Abby's, which 336 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: is why he is largely credited with the idea of 337 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: creating and championing standard time. He was also, as we 338 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: have said, very outspoken, so his name became the one 339 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: more recognized as the leader of the effort to get 340 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: a time system adopted. Both of them basically had this 341 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: idea to set up twenty four time zones around the 342 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: world to match the number of hours in a day, 343 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: and to divide the circumference of the equator by twenty 344 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: four to establish those zones. Fleming had given an example 345 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: of the issues of local timekeeping for travelers in his 346 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy six paper, one that seems taken from his 347 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: own life experience and his intimate knowledge of train travel. Quote. 348 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: To illustrate the points of difficulty, let us first take 349 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 1: the case of a traveler in North America. He lands, 350 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: let us say, at Halifax, Nova Scotia, and starts on 351 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: a railway journey through the eastern portions of Canada. His 352 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: route is over the Intercolonial and Grand Trunk Lines. He 353 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 1: stops at St. John, Quebec, Montreal, Ottawa, and Toronto. At 354 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 1: the beginning of the journey, he sets his watch by 355 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: Halifax time. As he reaches each place in succession, he 356 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: finds a considerable variation in the clocks by which the 357 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: trains are run, and he discovers that at no two 358 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: places is the same time used. Between Halifax and Toronto. 359 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: He finds the railways employing no less than five different 360 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: standards of time. If the traveler remained at any one 361 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: of these cities referred to, he would be obliged to 362 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: alter his watch in order to avoid much inconvenience and 363 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: perhaps not a few disappointments and annoyances to himself and others. If, however, 364 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: he should not alter his watch, he would discover on 365 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: reaching Toronto, but it was an hour in five minutes, 366 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: faster than the clocks and watches in that city. You 367 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: can see why this would be a big pain in 368 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: the neck. We're going to talk about how all of 369 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 1: this discussion about time finally turned into action in just 370 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: a moment. But first we will hear from the sponsors 371 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:32,719 Speaker 1: that keep stuff you missed in history class going. Fleming's 372 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: greatest asset in his work to standardize time was the 373 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: American Society of Civil Engineers. Because so many of their 374 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: members worked for various North American railroads, they all had 375 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: a vested interest in fixing this problem. The society instituted 376 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: a standing committee on time in one and Fleming was 377 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: named as its chairman. He used this position to gather 378 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: data from railroad workers and scientists, paying the research expenses 379 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: for all of this out of his own pocket, and 380 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: he found out pretty quickly that just about everyone in 381 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 1: the railroad industry was in favor of his system. So 382 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: though he was planning to take his findings to the 383 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: US Congress for action, the North American railways acted independently 384 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: before that could even happen, and cooperatively adopted his plan 385 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: for one hour time zones on November three. So keep 386 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: in mind that before this there were a hundred and 387 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: forty four different localized times being used in the United 388 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: States alone, so no wonder an entire industry that was 389 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 1: trying to link all these places together was in favor 390 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: of the plan. Simplified things for them considerably, yes, and 391 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: after the trains adopted it, most of North America kind 392 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: of followed suit, but even so there wasn't anything official 393 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: in place at a government level, and other continents and 394 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: countries were still kind of doing their own thing. But 395 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: the American Society of Civil Engineers and the Meteorological Society 396 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: were very vocal about the need for a wider adoption 397 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: of this system, and members of those groups reached out 398 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,120 Speaker 1: to their contacts in Congress to push for action. President 399 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: Chester A. Arthur also requested that some plan for a 400 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: wider adoption be explored, and at the same time, the 401 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: papers by both Fleming and Abbey were still being circulated 402 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: to various other countries and support continued to grow. The 403 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: results of this was that in October of eighteen eighty four, 404 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: the International Meridian Conference was held in Washington, d C. 405 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: This conference was called entirely with the goal of choosing 406 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: one single global prime meridian is the position of zero 407 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: degrees longitude, and that would be the base for all 408 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: the other calculations. Twenty six nations participated in this Austria, Hungary, Brazil, Chile, Columbia, 409 00:24:53,720 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: Costa Rica, Denmark, France, Germany, Great Britain, Guatemala, Hawaii, Italy, Japan, Liberia, Mexico, Netherlands, Paraguay, Russia, 410 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: San Domingo, Salvador, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, the United States, 411 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: and Venezuela. Sometimes you'll see this reported as twenty two countries, 412 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: because a lot of folks weren't there yet on the 413 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: first day. I'm just gonna, in my head canon be 414 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,199 Speaker 1: it's because the time zones didn't exist and they had 415 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: missed their connections. Admiral CRP. Rogers, who was one of 416 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: the US delegates, was named President of the conference, and 417 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: in his opening speech, Roger stated that quote in my 418 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 1: own profession that of a seaman. The embarrassment arising from 419 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: the many prime meridians now in use is very conspicuous, 420 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: and in the valuable interchange of longitudes by passing ships 421 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 1: at see, often difficult and hurried, sometimes only possible by 422 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: figures written on a blackboard, much confusion arises, and at 423 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: times grave danger. In the use of charts to this 424 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: trouble is also annoying, and to us who live upon 425 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: the sea, a common prime meridian will be a great advantage. 426 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: I need not trespass further upon your attention, except to 427 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: lay before you the subject we are invited to discuss 428 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: the choice of a meridian to be employed as a 429 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: common zero of longitude and standard of time reckoning throughout 430 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: the world. The meridian that passed through the Royal Observatory 431 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: in Greenwich, England had been in use by a lot 432 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: of mariners and railroads for some time as the mean 433 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: from which all distance and time was calculated. It was 434 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 1: not a universally accepted prime meridian before this conference, Maps 435 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: that were created in different countries would often put the 436 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: zero longitude line through the capital of whatever country the 437 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 1: map was made in. This kind of reminds me of 438 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: our Gertis Mercatur episode talking about different places putting their 439 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: north north not necessarily being up. It's got some similarities 440 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: to that, and that is made calculating navigational roots and difficult. 441 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 1: But it wasn't about time and selecting a prime meridian 442 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: that would be agreed on internationally. The hope was that 443 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: a universal time what eventually became known as Coordinated Universal 444 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 1: Time or UTC, would be established. The minutes to this 445 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: entire conference are readable online. There's a link to them 446 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: at their Project Guttenberg location. In our show notes and 447 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: a lot of it is pretty dry parliamentary procedure. But 448 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: Pierre Jensen, one of the French delegates and also the 449 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: director of the Physical Observatory of Paris, made the case 450 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: that a prior gathering in Rome had seemed to only 451 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: consider the geographical aspect of the meridian question and not 452 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: the hydrographic needs of the world. He made an impassioned 453 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: and lengthy speech in which he stated, quote, nearly all 454 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: the astronomical tables used at the present time by the 455 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: astronomers and the navies of the world are French and 456 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: calculated for the Paris meridian. This is also a little 457 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 1: bit related to our episode on the discovery of longitude, 458 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: which you can check out for a kind of a 459 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: companion piece to this. It also reminds me of the 460 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: Esperanto episode when there were conferences about what if we 461 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: adopted Esperanto as an international language, and France was like, 462 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: but France is already the international language, or French is 463 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: already the international language. Yes. Anyway, Jason went on to 464 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 1: make it clear that he felt that France had always 465 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: been brushed aside and considerations, and that he clearly saw 466 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: the adoption of Greenwich as the international prime meridian as 467 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: an unfair advantage to England that would just lead to 468 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: future conflict. Arguing quote, I now hastened to say that 469 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: I am persuaded that the proposition voted for at Rome 470 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: was neither made nor suggested by England. But I doubt 471 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: whether it would render a true service to the English 472 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: nation if it be agreed to. An immense majority of 473 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: the navies of the world navigate with English charts. That 474 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: is true, and it is a practical complement to the 475 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: great maritime activity of that nation. When this freely admitted 476 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: supremacy shall be transformed into an official and compulsory supremacy, 477 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,479 Speaker 1: it will suffer the vicissitudes of all human power, and 478 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: that institution, the common Meridian, which by its nature is 479 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: of a purely scientific nature, and to which we would 480 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: assure a long and certain future, will become the object 481 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: of burning competition and jealousy among nations. It's an interesting thought. 482 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: It will make England too important, and we will all 483 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: quite about this forever. And this is also like it 484 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: just came up in the Mercator episode also about like 485 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: this map that's a standard puts Europe in the middle. 486 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: It's the same kind of thought process about like the 487 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: eurocentric city and in this case like the Britain specifics 488 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: and eccentricity of all of it. Now, the French delegation 489 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: did propose a resolution that would avoid this problem. That 490 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: resolution read quote that the initial meridians should have a 491 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: character of absolute neutrality. It should be chosen exclusively so 492 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: as to secure to science and to international commerce all 493 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: possible advantages, and especially should cut no great continent, neither 494 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: Europe nor America. That resolution got only three votes of 495 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: support from France, Brazil and San Domingo. It did not pass, 496 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: but the conference did pass seven other resolutions, which read 497 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: as follows. One that it is the opinion of this 498 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: Congress that it is desirable to adopt a single prime 499 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: meridian for all nations in place of the multiplicity of 500 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: initial meridians which now exists too. That the Conference proposes 501 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: to the government's here represented, the adoption of the meridian 502 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: passing through the center of the transit instrument at the 503 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: Observatory of Greenwich as the initial meridian for longitude three. 504 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: That from this meridian, longitude shall be counted in two 505 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: directions up to one eighty degrees east longitude being plus 506 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: and west longitude minus four that the Conference proposes the 507 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: adoption of a universal day for all purposes for which 508 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: it may be found convenient, and which shall not interfere 509 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: with the use of local or other standard time. We're desirable. 510 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: Five that this universal day is to be a mean 511 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: solar day. It is to begin for all the world 512 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: at the moment of mean midnight of the initial meridian, 513 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: coinciding with the beginning of the civil day and date 514 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: of that meridian, and is to be counted from zero 515 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: up to twenty four hours. Six. That the Conference expresses 516 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: the hope that, as soon as maybe practicable, the astronomical 517 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: and nautical days will be arranged everywhere to begin at 518 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: mean midnight. Seven That the Conference expresses the hope that 519 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: the technical studies designed to regulate and extend the application 520 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: of the decimal system to the division of angular space 521 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: and of time shall be resumed so as to permit 522 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: the extension of this application to all cases in which 523 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,239 Speaker 1: it presents real advantages. So as you read that, you 524 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: may have surmised that though the Conference established the prime meridian, 525 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: it did not dictate its adoption in any real way. 526 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: Each country could enact the system, however, and whenever it wished. 527 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: In the sixteen years between the conference and the dawn 528 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century, most countries had officially adopted or 529 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: officially transition to the resolutions agreed to by the International 530 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: Meridian Conference, and that was still a very at your 531 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: own pace approach, with some countries keeping their own time 532 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: for a while or observing the standardization but not in 533 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: any official way. Although the US had adopted it pretty 534 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: completely by for instance, it wasn't actually cautified or mandatory 535 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: until nineteen eighteen. Countries also weren't bound to adhere to 536 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: the twenty four hour fifteen degrees of longitude plan where 537 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: it didn't make sense. And if you look at a 538 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: time zone map today, you'll see plenty of places where 539 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: the time zone lines shift to follow the boundaries of 540 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: different countries or states, or so that the line runs 541 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: along a river, just to make things a little simpler 542 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: in day to day life, and because you're probably wondering 543 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: if you don't already know, some places use half hour 544 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: time zones where it makes sense, and because the polls 545 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: are where the lines of longitude all converge, they use 546 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: the same coordinated universal time as Greenwich. Those time zone 547 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: lines have shifted over the years as well. I think 548 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: the most recent change was in so pretty recently. For example, 549 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: Georgia was initially split by a time zone line when 550 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: standardization was adopted. So very roughly speaking, if you know 551 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: the state of Georgia, the western third of the state 552 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: was in the Central time zone while the rest was 553 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: in the Eastern time zone. And it actually wasn't until 554 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: one that the State of Georgia was entirely moved into 555 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: the Eastern time zone. Now for US folks, on March 556 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: nineteenth eighteen, President Woodrow Wilson signed the Standard Time Act, 557 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: making it law in the US. The Eastern, Central Mountain, Pacific, 558 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: and Alaskan time zones were all established at that time. 559 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: Those time zones are still the ones that we use. 560 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: Although at that point time zones fell under the jurisdiction 561 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: of the Interstate Commerce Commission. That work was shifted over 562 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: to the Department of Transportation when it was founded in 563 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties six. There has been a lot of discussion 564 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: recently about daylight savings time. There are other countries that 565 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: do some shifting, but we're focusing on the U S 566 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: since this has been a big issue lately. It was 567 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: established in the US through that Standard Time Act. The 568 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: idea was that if we shifted time around so that 569 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 1: people were awake and active during most of the hours 570 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: where there would be sunlight, less energy would be used. 571 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: This was initially a World War One money saving measure 572 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: that was new in terms of legislation, but it wasn't 573 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: a new idea. Benjamin Franklin had pitched a similar idea 574 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: in France as a way to save candles. Sometimes people 575 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,320 Speaker 1: credit him with inventing daylight savings time. That's not quite correct. 576 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 1: His version was more about shifting your personal schedule, not 577 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: changing the time by an hour. She's basically like just 578 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: just say you wake up at ten instead of nine, 579 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: or like he just wanted to change it. An entomologists 580 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: from New Zealand named George Hudson had actually suggested a 581 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: clock change to conserve daylight hours back in though after 582 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: the war, daylight saving time went away until World War Two, 583 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,919 Speaker 1: when it was once again implemented. It was repealed again 584 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: in It wasn't until the passing of the Uniform Time 585 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: Act in nineteen sixty six that Congress made a national 586 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: standard time, including the observance of daylight saving time. Although 587 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: Hawaii and Arizona both opted out of daylight Saving time, 588 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: with the exception of the navajun aation in the northeast 589 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: of what's now Arizona. The Uniform Time Act also set 590 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: daylight Saving time as a permanent annual shift, starting the 591 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 1: last Sunday in April and ending the last Sunday in October. 592 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: Of course, those dates have changed over the years. In March, 593 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: the U. S. Senate passed the Sunshine Protection Act. This 594 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: wasn't an official vote, it was a verbal They all 595 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,399 Speaker 1: were like yes, and then there are some question marks 596 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,760 Speaker 1: if they understood it. Yeah, it's a thing called unanimous consent. 597 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: And apparently afterwards some senators who were interviewed were like, 598 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,760 Speaker 1: I don't know what just happens. Right, This Sunshine Protection 599 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,280 Speaker 1: Act would is intended to make Daylight Savings Time permanent. 600 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,760 Speaker 1: It still needs to pass in the House of Representatives 601 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: and it would then need to be signed into law 602 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: by the President. This has certainly sent a lot of 603 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: people into a frenzy because the bill has supporters and 604 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: attractors on both sides of the political aisle, and if 605 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: you are on social media at all, you have seen 606 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 1: people very upset about it. In both directions, probably because 607 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: we're recording this. The House will vote and all of 608 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: these things will be handled before we published, because how 609 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 1: stuff works. As for Sanford Fleming, he was one of 610 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 1: the charter members of the Royal Society of Canada when 611 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 1: it was established in eighteen eighty two, and he served 612 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: as the organization's president in eight eight. He was given 613 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: honorary doctorates from several schools and was knighted in eighteen 614 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 1: nine seven. He died in Halifax in nineteen fifteen was 615 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: buried in Ottawa. So yes, he barely did not live 616 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: long enough to see the United States enact They're standardized 617 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,720 Speaker 1: time officially, although he saw it adopted pretty much everywhere 618 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 1: in his lifetime. He also, I should say, as much 619 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 1: as he sounds like a pill, he did die in 620 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: the home of his daughter. He was surrounded by his 621 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: loved ones. He was very adored by his family. So 622 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,320 Speaker 1: I think he was professionally, very stalwart in his beliefs. 623 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,359 Speaker 1: But he sounded like he was not a horrible man. 624 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: I want to make that clear well. And as a 625 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 1: person who can be very stubborn, especially if I think 626 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: I'm right about something, I kind of get it. I 627 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: have for listener mail a very very very late thank you, 628 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: because yes, most everyone knows we've been staying home for 629 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:26,359 Speaker 1: this whole pandemic um. Our office is currently changing places. 630 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,360 Speaker 1: We are moving through different digs, which means that all 631 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 1: of the stuff that goes to stuff you missed in 632 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 1: history class goes to my desk. And last Tuesday, thirty 633 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 1: two boxes arrived by courier on my front porch that 634 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,719 Speaker 1: the office manager had sent to my home. Oh my 635 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: goodness of largely like books from publishers, but also a 636 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 1: lot of gems among them. And one of those gems 637 00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: was a gift sent to us by our listener, Tom, 638 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: who writes ms Fry, because he knew it was coming 639 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: to to me essentially at the office. I hope this 640 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: finds you and yours well. A greeting which takes on 641 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,320 Speaker 1: new meeting in today's world. Some time ago I mentioned 642 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,760 Speaker 1: the enclosed waffle maker to you on Twitter. You seemed 643 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: delighted on the concept but dubious about the cost. After 644 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,320 Speaker 1: receiving mine and it languishing for months, I realized I 645 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 1: would be unlikely to ever use it, so I decided 646 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 1: to pass it on to someone who would make use 647 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,360 Speaker 1: of it. I hope it brings you some small measure 648 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,400 Speaker 1: of the pleasure and entertainment that you and Miss Wilson 649 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: have brought to me over the years. May you and 650 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,680 Speaker 1: yours have days filled with joy, nights filled with peace, 651 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: and lives filled with love. Sincerely, Tom, which is the 652 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: sweetest note of all time. But this waffle maker, which 653 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,879 Speaker 1: I remember talking about on Twitter, makes waffles that look 654 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 1: like legos and you can stack them together. Oh that's great. 655 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: I love it. It is and it comes with two 656 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,359 Speaker 1: little trays that are like your base tray, so you 657 00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 1: can put your blocks and Um. When next you find 658 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: yourself here in Atlanta, Tracy, we are going to have 659 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: waffle feast to the likes of which has never been seen. 660 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 1: So excited. We'll do savory waffles, We'll do sweet waffles. 661 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: We'll make waffles with pumpkin. We'll make waffles with apple, 662 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: We'll make waffles, I don't know, we make fish waffles. 663 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: Whatever we want to do. It's gonna be a waffle party. Um. 664 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,839 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Tom. I uh. It was one 665 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 1: of the things in the midst of opening box after 666 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: box of books from publishers, I was like, what is 667 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 1: this magical discovery. He sent that back in January, So 668 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: that's an indicator of how often I'm I've been in 669 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,360 Speaker 1: the office twice in the last two and a half years. 670 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: That's amazing. I know. We have so many listeners who 671 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 1: are so thoughtful and want to send us physical items. 672 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,840 Speaker 1: Let that be a lesson to you. I may or 673 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: may not see them for a year or more. And 674 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,840 Speaker 1: at this moment, like Holly and I are both working 675 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:59,240 Speaker 1: Me pretty much exclusively remotely, Holly mostly too exclusively remotely. 676 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: Oren's High. Our office is kind of between spaces at 677 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: this moment with this move, So if you look up 678 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: our address online, it's probably our old office that will 679 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: come up in search results, And so if you send 680 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: stuff there, you might never see it and they get 681 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: lost forever. And I think we're still kind of working 682 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 1: through what things will look like in the new space, 683 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,959 Speaker 1: which to my knowledge, we don't actually have access to yet. 684 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 1: So you're thinking of sending a physical item, just hold 685 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: off for a little bit so it doesn't go into 686 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 1: just Mailimbo. Yes, but I'm very excited for waffles. Thank you, Tom. 687 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us in a 688 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: way that is almost guaranteed to get through. You can 689 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,359 Speaker 1: do that via email at History podcast at iHeart radio 690 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: dot com. You can also, of course find us on 691 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,879 Speaker 1: social media as Missed in History pretty much everywhere, and 692 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: if you would like to subscribe to the show and 693 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 1: you have not yet, no matter what time zone you're in, 694 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,360 Speaker 1: it's super duper easy. You can do that on the 695 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 1: I heart Radio app or anywhere you listen to your 696 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 1: favorite podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a 697 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I 698 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,399 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 699 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.