Speaker 1: Welcome to the Solid Verbal hull that for me, I'm
Speaker 1: a man, I'm forty.
Speaker 2: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to
Speaker 2: be happy.
Speaker 1: You want to be happy for a day?
Speaker 2: Ed of State?
Speaker 1: Is that? Woof? Woof? And Dan and Tye welcome back
Speaker 1: to the Solid Verbal Boys and girls. My name is
Speaker 1: ty hilden Brandt. As always, I am joined by the one,
Speaker 1: the only, the incomparable. The Warm and Sunny in Southern
Speaker 1: California version of Dan Rubinstein joining us on the podcast today, Sir,
Speaker 1: how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm terrific. I am tanner than I was a few
Speaker 2: days ago. I went to the beach in February. I've
Speaker 2: eaten terrific food. I've been running the streets. I'm trying
Speaker 2: to soak it all up before heading back to the
Speaker 2: frostier Midwest. So life is good, Tye and I get
Speaker 2: to talk with you.
Speaker 1: Crank it eight the Steve Wynnwood back in the High
Speaker 1: Life again, Dan Rubinstein in Sunday, Southern California. No video
Speaker 1: component today because, as we discussed on our previous show,
Speaker 1: sometimes when we move about the country requires a little
Speaker 1: bit more technical know how. We're not without all of
Speaker 1: the tools, but Dan, we'll be back later this week.
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Speaker 1: we do have our subject. He is interested, he is
Speaker 1: game for our monthly off topic episode that I am
Speaker 1: very excited about.
Speaker 2: I think it would not be unfair to call what
Speaker 2: you have with regard to this off topic episode. I
Speaker 2: think you have an intellectual boner for what we're about
Speaker 2: to record.
Speaker 1: I think you may have something there. I think you're
Speaker 1: onto that. I think you're onto it. Yeah, I'm very
Speaker 1: excited about this episode. So the off topic show will
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Speaker 1: also solid giveaway dot com. We've got a new helmet.
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Speaker 1: but certainly not least, the soliverbal as you know, is
Speaker 1: driven by Geico. What do we have today. We've got news.
Speaker 1: We don't have any kind of quirky game. We don't
Speaker 1: have any sort of frills, we don't have any kind
Speaker 1: of high concept that you need to imbibe and ingest
Speaker 1: and comprehend and compute before we dive in. We've just
Speaker 1: got a few things to talk about, not the least
Speaker 1: of which is a college football playoff deciding they want
Speaker 1: to expand just not now. We've also got some coaches
Speaker 1: that are on the move. We've got some more nil
Speaker 1: news at least quote unquote news that we can discuss,
Speaker 1: and then some transfer portal stuff with Jaden Daniels at
Speaker 1: Arizona State dam which is sort of making headline.
Speaker 2: All of them are interesting. The Jaden Daniels thing is,
Speaker 2: I mean, the timing of which is fascinating. Obviously things
Speaker 2: are going kind of screw and Tempe figure. He announced
Speaker 2: that he was staying before like a month ago, right
Speaker 2: an fl interest right a week ago, and now he's
Speaker 2: decided to move on. So I'm sure there are more
Speaker 2: things happening behind the scenes than we know. And I
Speaker 2: also saw a video it seemed like his teammates were
Speaker 2: or some of his teammates were helping to clean out
Speaker 2: his locker and happy to see him go. So you know,
Speaker 2: interpersonal relationships can be tricky in in a stressful environment
Speaker 2: like a major college football locker room. I'm sure it
Speaker 2: also begs the question who would have a better offense
Speaker 2: with Jaden Daniels running things that who was not able
Speaker 2: to nail quarterback in the height of the portal movings
Speaker 2: around not a word. There are a lot of teams
Speaker 2: who could use the best of Jaden Daniels. I'm just
Speaker 2: not sure what that is right now. I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people will look back at his performance hitting
Speaker 2: those huge throws against Oregon a couple of years ago
Speaker 2: when Oregon was like number six in the country and
Speaker 2: came to Tempe and lost because Jade Daniels had the
Speaker 2: game of his life. I think he's fine, don't I
Speaker 2: don't know that the perception of him, it seems nationally,
Speaker 2: is accurate. He made a lot of mistakes, has had
Speaker 2: accuracy issues throughout his career. Like, I think he's fine.
Speaker 2: I think he would be an upgrade for a lot
Speaker 2: of programs. I'm just curious about the timing of such
Speaker 2: a move, and obviously things we are like we're post
Speaker 2: first phase of the portal, and I think second phase
Speaker 2: will come during an after spring, right yeah, right, A
Speaker 2: big name, I think a limited ceiling.
Speaker 1: The obvious destinations I think for Jade Daniels are listed
Speaker 1: here in an article that I've got from a friends
Speaker 1: over at Athlon. They've listed out cal and UCLA, which
Speaker 1: I have seen elsewhere as potential landing spots. They mentioned LSU, Missouri,
Speaker 1: and Penn State, which I don't buy any of those,
Speaker 1: But Cal and UCLA I think are probably be the
Speaker 1: two most likely options. So UCLA is in an interesting
Speaker 1: spot because DTR is back. They originally had Dylan Gabriel
Speaker 1: who decided to untransfer and then retransfer to Oklahoma, so
Speaker 1: that's not working out. To have Jane Daniels behind DTR,
Speaker 1: I guess, or maybe in front of DTR if he
Speaker 1: shows up, that would.
Speaker 2: Be I thinking upgrade maybe for you, who am I
Speaker 2: describing and saying? His numbers don't really tell the full
Speaker 2: story of how inconsistent and at times disappointing this quarterback
Speaker 2: has been. So I you know, I sure I don't
Speaker 2: think DTR is a nine or ten win quarterback, and
Speaker 2: I don't think Jade Daniels necessarily is. And I know
Speaker 2: Daniels is from southern California. He would it seems, I
Speaker 2: know Cal is at the portal already to be an
Speaker 2: upgrade from where Cal has been recently.
Speaker 1: So Cal Cal has Jack Plumber that they brought in,
Speaker 1: right and you and I think that Jane Daniels would
Speaker 1: be an upgrade.
Speaker 2: There probably, But I think the problem is Cal's offense
Speaker 2: in general has been pretty disappointing, pretty bland. They haven't
Speaker 2: been able to really find playmakers at running back or
Speaker 2: you know, have a consistent offensive line or game changers
Speaker 2: at receiver.
Speaker 1: It's just really tough.
Speaker 2: That hasn't been really what Justin Wilcox has succeeded in
Speaker 2: doing in Berkeley. So yeah, I just don't know how
Speaker 2: much he would be set up to succeed there. And
Speaker 2: for those other schools, those are three schools that have
Speaker 2: clear quarterbacks of the future, and in this case, Jane
Speaker 2: Daniels would be a sort of Tyrod Taylor NFL stop
Speaker 2: gap while the younger guys get ready, Right, Maszoo just
Speaker 2: signed a blue chip quarterback of the future. Of course,
Speaker 2: Penn State with what drew a lar Walker Howard at LSU,
Speaker 2: so it's it's fine. And obviously LSU with the first
Speaker 2: year coach doesn't have you know, extreme loyalty to a
Speaker 2: current quarterback on the roster. But no, I think the
Speaker 2: West Coast footprint, whether it's a Mountain West school, whether
Speaker 2: it's a Pac twelve school, it's going to make the
Speaker 2: most sense for Jaden Daniels.
Speaker 1: By the way, ASU in a very very weird spot.
Speaker 1: Not only Jadan Daniels transferring, but they had another guy
Speaker 1: transfer as well. They brought over what is it, Paul
Speaker 1: Tyson from Alabama Alabama to help build some depth. But
Speaker 1: my hunch is that the ASU program is going to
Speaker 1: look like a shell of its former self when things
Speaker 1: kick off here in twenty twenty two, because there's just
Speaker 1: been so much upheaval. I'm surprised herm is still there,
Speaker 1: to be honest with you.
Speaker 2: Well, he's got a very loyal ad former agent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would expect that there's going to be a
Speaker 1: lot of pressure on things to turn around in some sense.
Speaker 1: I don't know what that equates to how you quantify
Speaker 1: that in twenty two, but he's probably about as hot
Speaker 1: as seat as you can imagine in college football at
Speaker 1: this point.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's going to be a package deal
Speaker 2: with It's going to have to be. It's going to
Speaker 2: have after the athletic director. Yeah, it's gonna happen, be Yeah,
Speaker 2: hard to see it turning around. Hard to see it
Speaker 2: turning around. They you know, Zach Hill, They've they've lost
Speaker 2: so many guys. Antonio Pierce moved on to the NFL,
Speaker 2: Zach Hill resigned in the mid amid all of the
Speaker 2: recruiting investigation stuff, and it's just, yeah, I think what
Speaker 2: we know is going to happen is it's going to
Speaker 2: be a new coach next year. Probably maybe not twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two, but next year twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right. Speaking of new coaches, we have Liam Cohen.
Speaker 1: Liam Cohen who was most recently the OC for the
Speaker 1: Kentucky Wildcats. There were rumors, all sorts of rumors for
Speaker 1: Liam Cohen. A bit of a revelation this year in Lexington.
Speaker 1: He has decided to go back to the NFL. He'll
Speaker 1: be joining up with the La Rams in a move
Speaker 1: that was sort of telegraphed. It's not a huge surprise
Speaker 1: he would do that. But Liam Cohen going back to
Speaker 1: the NFL. We've also got Charlie Strong getting back in
Speaker 1: the game, still coaching in South Florida, this time as
Speaker 1: linebackers coach for the Miami Hurricanes. Hired by Mario Cristoball.
Speaker 1: Charlie Strong is head coach. Has definitely had mixed results,
Speaker 1: but Charlie Strong is a defensive assistant coach. I think
Speaker 1: is still a pretty good move.
Speaker 2: It's hard to say anything but overwhelmingly nice things about
Speaker 2: the staff Mario cristaball is put together. And I think
Speaker 2: that ratchets up the pressure, as if it already wasn't
Speaker 2: high enough, with the hype of bringing back the homegrown
Speaker 2: guy and bringing in some of the you know, bringing
Speaker 2: Kevin Steele and Josh Gaddis to run the offense and
Speaker 2: bringing in the types of names he's brought in. I
Speaker 2: think he'll recruit very well. The key will be living
Speaker 2: up to now incredibly high expectations for a program that again,
Speaker 2: how many how many times they won the ACC ty No, yeah,
Speaker 2: zero point zero times zero point zero.
Speaker 1: So we're still.
Speaker 2: Waiting, and I have very little doubt that Mario Crista
Speaker 2: Ball will succeed. I just don't know what that actually
Speaker 2: means in the current college football landscape. ACC landscape is great.
Speaker 2: Clemson's down, pitt lost its quarterback, you know, North Carolina
Speaker 2: loses its quarterback but is recruiting well. Florida State still
Speaker 2: seems like kind of a mess, but seems to be
Speaker 2: heading in the right direction maybe probably, but certainly not
Speaker 2: anywhere on the level of a conference champion type team.
Speaker 2: So it's a great time to be an emerging program
Speaker 2: in the ACC. But I imagine Miami fans, even having
Speaker 2: not won the conference, have their site set a even
Speaker 2: higher than that. So we'll see a lot of money,
Speaker 2: a lot of hype, a lot of names, and I
Speaker 2: imagine Mario Cristaball will get the most out of his staff,
Speaker 2: especially on the recruiting trail.
Speaker 1: The other big news story that I wanted to talk about,
Speaker 1: and maybe I buried the lead a little bit, but
Speaker 1: I figured we would. We would spill the most milk
Speaker 1: over this topic. Uh oh, college Football Playoff remaining at
Speaker 1: four teams. So yes, here's the deal. It's going to
Speaker 1: stay at four teams through the twenty twenty five season
Speaker 1: till the contract ends. It seems there is unanimous agreement
Speaker 1: that they want to expand they just don't know how.
Speaker 1: They're still working through the logistics of how they want
Speaker 1: to bring the twelve team playoff into existence. It was
Speaker 1: an eight to three vote when they gathered this past
Speaker 1: week to try and determine if they're going to move forward.
Speaker 1: It failed. It needs unanimous approval in order to proceed.
Speaker 1: It failed because the Big Ten, the PAC twelve, and
Speaker 1: the ACC so called alliance that we made a big
Speaker 1: deal out of volume block. Yeah, all three of those
Speaker 1: conferences voted against it. Again, nobody is saying it's not
Speaker 1: going to expand everybody's in agreement it's going to happen
Speaker 1: at some point. But the ACC, I think what last
Speaker 1: month Jim Phillips, the Commissioner, stated that in order for
Speaker 1: them to proceed, they first need to consider the impacts
Speaker 1: of NIL things like the transfer portal and the governance structure,
Speaker 1: which on the NCAA side is undergoing a pretty significant overhaul. Right,
Speaker 1: they're still working by the Constitution and all those types
Speaker 1: of things. So the ACC has been the most outspoken
Speaker 1: against this by staying at four. Reportedly everyone is forfeiting
Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty million dollars in potential revenue.
Speaker 2: Well, when you say everyone, some people, some people, some people, sure,
Speaker 2: some people, some very fortunate people who are already making
Speaker 2: a lot of money from the sport are forfeiting four
Speaker 2: hundred ten million dollars.
Speaker 1: Ten FBS conferences and Notre Dame have forfeited reportedly four
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million dollars in potential revenue. Some of
Speaker 1: the other potential obstacles that were outlined an inability to
Speaker 1: accommodate the PAC twelve in the Rose Bowl. That relationship
Speaker 1: they desperately want to try and cling to the traditional
Speaker 1: day and time along with the METEA rites. We've heard
Speaker 1: about that for eons, right, that's no news story. There
Speaker 1: are disagreements additionally about revenue distribution. It's a lot of money.
Speaker 1: Got to figure out what to do with it, how
Speaker 1: to break it up. There's also some dispute over whether
Speaker 1: or not Power five conference champions should receive automatic bids
Speaker 1: to an expanded playoff. So this is something that was
Speaker 1: very much supported by the Big Ten. However, it doesn't
Speaker 1: seem like a majority around college football. So a lot
Speaker 1: going on here. Again, I'll re emphasize for the third
Speaker 1: time that when the contracts up through the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five season, they're going to expand this thing, presumably to twelve,
Speaker 1: because that seemed to be the direction everybody was headed.
Speaker 1: But it's going to take a little bit longer to
Speaker 1: get there. I saw Jack Swarbrick said that they were
Speaker 1: already probably about a month month and a half overdue
Speaker 1: with regard to whatever time line they had put into place.
Speaker 1: But take more time they think they'll get there. Your
Speaker 1: thoughts on this. I know what your thoughts are on this.
Speaker 2: I know a lot of movie. I know a lot
Speaker 2: of a lot of it also has to do with what,
Speaker 2: because I know they're what the PAC twelve is, the
Speaker 2: PAC twelve, Big twelve, and Big Ten. I know there
Speaker 2: are three because the ACC is locked in pretty deeply
Speaker 2: with ESPN when they signed the deal I think to
Speaker 2: create the ACC network, and the SEC is pretty locked
Speaker 2: in and they're they're changing their national Game of the
Speaker 2: Week too. I think it's going to ABC from CBS.
Speaker 2: But the other three conferences TV deals are coming up,
Speaker 2: and so that is going to affect things in terms
Speaker 2: of who is bidding on the college football Playoff, how
Speaker 2: many games are they bidding on, how is what does
Speaker 2: the TV structure look like of a future playoff with four, six, eight, twelve,
Speaker 2: sixteen teams. So a lot is going to depend on that,
Speaker 2: especially in the wake of news the news that I
Speaker 2: think NBC is extremely interested in getting involved with the
Speaker 2: Big Ten, which currently resides at ESPN, Slash, ABC and five.
Speaker 2: So a lot of that is going to come into
Speaker 2: play because now NBC looks at the Big Ten as
Speaker 2: a nice companion for Notre Dame, which makes sense. It
Speaker 2: definitely makes sense that there is going to be overlap
Speaker 2: in people who are interested about interested in Big ten games,
Speaker 2: interested in Notre Dame games. Sure, these types of shows
Speaker 2: where there is new, big news, whether or not it
Speaker 2: is long lasting or not, like we thought it was
Speaker 2: going to be last summer, when it seemed like the
Speaker 2: wheels were in motion to go to twelve generally brings
Speaker 2: out the like I'm the sort of boring Godzilla underneath
Speaker 2: the ocean floor who like, Okay, I guess I'm gonna
Speaker 2: have to rise again and talk about my thoughts about
Speaker 2: the college football postseason. But specifically with regard to staying
Speaker 2: at four. It's fine, It's absolutely fine if they can't
Speaker 2: come to an agreement. I'm not sure what the endgame
Speaker 2: is though, because I know that the holdup has been
Speaker 2: auto bids right that conference like the PAC twelve once
Speaker 2: it's champion in no matter what, and same goes for
Speaker 2: the Big Ten, same goes Big twelve, acc whatever. And
Speaker 2: so you have the SEC in this position, expanding to
Speaker 2: sixteen teams and adding two high profile teams that at
Speaker 2: their best can certainly build playoff caliber programs. Be it
Speaker 2: at four eight, twelve, sixteen or whatever. At Texas's best
Speaker 2: despite the last decade, I think it's fair to assume
Speaker 2: that they could build a playoff caliber team. So I'm
Speaker 2: just the SEC is in a place where they love
Speaker 2: four teams because they can get two teams in a
Speaker 2: good amount of time. They like the proposal to get
Speaker 2: to twelve teams because they could get three or four
Speaker 2: teams in. I think it's the auto bid thing that
Speaker 2: is the hold up, because that brings in more potential
Speaker 2: spoilers for SEC teams in terms of getting in. I
Speaker 2: saw Andy Staples write a piece about how the SEC
Speaker 2: should have their own playoff and they're send their champion
Speaker 2: to play against the champion of you know, all the
Speaker 2: other conferences and playoff that involves them. I just I
Speaker 2: think we're getting to a place that more and more
Speaker 2: people are realizing that there's no really good answer. You
Speaker 2: can say five auto bids and three at large's, or
Speaker 2: five and Notre Dame and two at large whatever, or
Speaker 2: we can say twelve the way it was outlined last summer,
Speaker 2: with the four teams getting the buy the top four
Speaker 2: teams getting a buye but Notre Dame is ineligible for
Speaker 2: one of those buyes. They're all systems, they're all answers.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they're good answers because none of
Speaker 2: them really do it for me. And addressing the one
Speaker 2: thing that I don't think can get fixed, which is
Speaker 2: there are just teams who are going to win a
Speaker 2: lot more games more often. And you can look at
Speaker 2: that as a feature or a bug, depending on how
Speaker 2: you feel about the sport and who your favorite team is.
Speaker 2: I just think we're we're getting to a point where
Speaker 2: we're going in circles and we're always going to have
Speaker 2: unhappy people no matter what the system is going to be.
Speaker 2: And I think that's the case because we're looking at
Speaker 2: the sport from a financial perspective, of financial point of
Speaker 2: view in that what will make the most TV money,
Speaker 2: what will get the highest TV ratings? And college football
Speaker 2: is doing this weird thing. And I say college football
Speaker 2: even though there is no college football. There's conferences, there's
Speaker 2: no centralized league. So we're doing this thing where we say,
Speaker 2: what's the best for the sport, or how do we
Speaker 2: get the highest ratings for our bowl games or for
Speaker 2: our national championship or our semi finals, And they chase
Speaker 2: casual fans, they chase mainstream fans, when I don't know
Speaker 2: that that was ever the point of the postseason. If
Speaker 2: you're chasing TV dollars and that's what you're courting, that
Speaker 2: means you're trying to attract the most TV viewers, and
Speaker 2: by doing that, you're saying, how do we get people
Speaker 2: who don't really care that much about college football to
Speaker 2: be interested in Alabama, Ohio State or Clemson LSU. And
Speaker 2: I just don't think it's a tangible goal. I mean,
Speaker 2: I understand why people think twelve teams is more interesting
Speaker 2: because we'll have new matchups and we'll have teams that
Speaker 2: are not normally in this conversation at the in January
Speaker 2: or whatever, whether it's Wisconsin or Baylor, Oregon, USC like
Speaker 2: any of those teams that like, oh suddenly they're playing
Speaker 2: in more meaningful games than usual. But it almost still
Speaker 2: to me feels like an invite rather than a meaningful
Speaker 2: place at the table. Does that make any sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know, I they're gonna expand it, they're
Speaker 1: gonna express they are. And as one of our guests,
Speaker 1: I forget who over the last got in a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks, a couple months. As somebody pointed out, this
Speaker 1: all started when college football made a decision, and it
Speaker 1: may not have been a conscious thing at the time,
Speaker 1: but at some point in time, they chase the bag.
Speaker 1: Like everybody else. They chased the bag. They went after
Speaker 1: the TV money, And when TV money started gaining more
Speaker 1: influence on the history and on the future of the sport,
Speaker 1: then suddenly we arrived at this place where it's all
Speaker 1: really coming down to the cash, and everybody's trying to
Speaker 1: chase the bag get the most profit possible. So this
Speaker 1: is going to happen the question, I think, and look,
Speaker 1: it's going to happen. I would prefer get here sooner
Speaker 1: than later, because you know my stance on it, it's
Speaker 1: going to happen eventually. Just do it. But I don't
Speaker 1: think Jim Phillips is wrong to say, well, we've already
Speaker 1: got a system and there are considerations that we need
Speaker 1: to factor in here. Now. It wasn't listed out explicitly
Speaker 1: in the articles that I read, at least not all
Speaker 1: of them, but I do think that there should be
Speaker 1: a hot minute for us to sit here and evaluate
Speaker 1: player safety. Right there are more cases, there are going
Speaker 1: to be more games for everybody, but for a lot
Speaker 1: of kids there are going to be mm hmm. For
Speaker 1: the ones who play at Alabama and Georgia in the
Speaker 1: high profile institutions, Yeah, it's going to take a greater
Speaker 1: toll on the body. Is there anything that's going to
Speaker 1: be done with respect to adding more scholarships or adding
Speaker 1: more depth somehow to factor in for this added toll
Speaker 1: that's going to take on some of these kids to
Speaker 1: build depth and to you know, fill out rosters in
Speaker 1: a way that maybe they aren't now. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that.
Speaker 2: It just has it all has a feel of I
Speaker 2: don't know if daisy chaining is the right word. Where
Speaker 2: we keep digging ourselves into a deeper and deeper place
Speaker 2: that we're plugging more and more into the surge protector,
Speaker 2: then we're adding splitters into the surge protector, when in essence,
Speaker 2: the whole sport probably needs to be rethought if we're
Speaker 2: going to become once again, do you want to be
Speaker 2: a tournament sport or a bowl sport? And it's hard
Speaker 2: to be kind of half in and out. And as
Speaker 2: we expand, college football becomes more of a tournament sport,
Speaker 2: and then what are the repercussions. What are the fallout
Speaker 2: situations from becoming a bigger and bigger tournament sport? And
Speaker 2: our friend Ari Wasserman wrote about this in saying that, like,
Speaker 2: if Michigan beating Ohio State and breaking through has a
Speaker 2: lot less meaning because Ohio State is still going to
Speaker 2: make a twelve team tournament, then it's just not as
Speaker 2: fun like we want steaks, and that to me, like
Speaker 2: it speaks to the appeal of college football for so many,
Speaker 2: for so long was the scarcity of the sport. And
Speaker 2: I think that's like, how many Thanksgivings do you celebrate?
Speaker 1: Tie?
Speaker 2: You could have turkey and mashed potatoes and cranberry sauce
Speaker 2: whenever you wanted together and watch football and play football
Speaker 2: outside with your friends and family, but you don't. You
Speaker 2: get one fourth of July. You could grill and have
Speaker 2: blueberry pie and launch fireworks. Are fireworks legal in Pennsylvania?
Speaker 1: Unfortunately? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, Yes, for your as a dog owner, right, you're
Speaker 2: not thrilled, So you could do that in April, you
Speaker 2: could do that in December. Nothing's stopping you. But there
Speaker 2: is something about something happening once a year, something that
Speaker 2: I think is central. I think that's that that that
Speaker 2: that kernel, that nugget to college football, that a lot
Speaker 2: of the appeal is tied to that you get one
Speaker 2: SI HOWK game, that you get one Iron Bowl, that
Speaker 2: you get one you know Platypus Cup or you know
Speaker 2: Red River Shootout. And so when you open up, when
Speaker 2: you when you give those games less meaning both by
Speaker 2: saying oh, they could play again, or that team losing
Speaker 2: that game ultimately didn't mean anything.
Speaker 1: I think it.
Speaker 2: I think it's a detriment to the sport, and it's
Speaker 2: I can't argue for moving backwards because that's not how
Speaker 2: life works. But I just I think we're heading to
Speaker 2: a place where college football has to do a full
Speaker 2: reboot in the way that it's organized if it wants
Speaker 2: to keep going down this road. And I mean, look, look,
Speaker 2: yeah a couple things here. First off, Okay, we can't
Speaker 2: go backwards. We can't go backwards. And I know where
Speaker 2: you stand in the playoff. And I'm not saying all
Speaker 2: your points are invalid. You bring up a lot of
Speaker 2: good points. I just think it is such a foregone
Speaker 2: conclusion at this point we're going to end up with
Speaker 2: a twelve team playoff, maybe bigger I don't know, it's
Speaker 2: just going to happen. But it's your show. You can
Speaker 2: talk about whether or not you're happy or bummed out,
Speaker 2: or how you would do it. Your name's right here
Speaker 2: on the show. I'm curious. I'm curious to see what
Speaker 2: it does to the sport. I have a lot of
Speaker 2: the same concerns you do, but I am not as
Speaker 2: doom and gloom about it. That being said, I am
Speaker 2: curious to see how.
Speaker 1: It affects some of the dynamics that you described, the
Speaker 1: Syhawk game, the game Michigan, Ohio State, these rivalries. How
Speaker 1: will it affect things given the fact that some of
Speaker 1: them could be rematches, or some of them may not
Speaker 1: have the same stakes as before. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean we're in an okay place right
Speaker 1: now where it still does matter.
Speaker 2: Well, four games keeps it or two games or I
Speaker 2: mean four teams or two teams or whatever. You know,
Speaker 2: it gives the games the stakes. And people will point
Speaker 2: to college basketball. I think it's a different sport. It's
Speaker 2: a different situation. You play many more games already in
Speaker 2: college basketball, and it's easy to say, Look, nobody watches
Speaker 2: college basketball regular season games or something like that. That's
Speaker 2: not true. A lot of people care about college basketball
Speaker 2: regular season games. It just happens that college basketball has
Speaker 2: one thing that college football will basically never have, and
Speaker 2: that's the ability for casual fans or non fans to
Speaker 2: fill out an office bracket. And so I think we
Speaker 2: just need to celebrate college football for what it is then,
Speaker 2: rather than what it's not. I'm fine with the playoff.
Speaker 2: I think they're going to expand I'm curious to see
Speaker 2: how they do it. I'm all for giving more if
Speaker 2: like we're already committed to the bid here where we're
Speaker 2: going to try and do a championship, which again is
Speaker 2: impossible in college football, but if we're at least going
Speaker 2: to try, I'm all about giving as many teams as
Speaker 2: you can the possibility of competing for it. Okay, that
Speaker 2: being set, Your second point, I think is one that
Speaker 2: I can definitely get behind. The whole notion of college
Speaker 2: football and where it stands within the collegiate structure. I've
Speaker 2: said for a long time the biggest problem with college
Speaker 2: football is that we call it college football and that
Speaker 2: it's associated with these institutions.
Speaker 1: You will have to pry college football from the dead, lifeless,
Speaker 1: greedy fingers of college institutions. There's no way they would
Speaker 1: ever want to four go some of the money that
Speaker 1: we're talking about here. The SEC paid out what fifty
Speaker 1: five million dollars last season. Yeah, there's no way you
Speaker 1: could ever get institutions to separate themselves from that. They
Speaker 1: love that, they thrive on that. They use that money
Speaker 1: for a lot of good purposes as well. It's not
Speaker 1: all underhanded. But of course, I just think we're going
Speaker 1: to come to a point Dan where the money we're
Speaker 1: talking about here just super seeds whatever the old collegiate
Speaker 1: football structure was supposed to be. How college football reorganizes
Speaker 1: itself over the next twenty years I think will be
Speaker 1: really interesting because it's going to this place. The money
Speaker 1: is only going to get greater, right, you know, how
Speaker 1: they keep this as a college thing where everybody can
Speaker 1: quote unquote compete is going to be very fascinating to me. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, it's not going to fundamentally change maybe
Speaker 2: the organization of the sport, but I think college football
Speaker 2: is going to remain college football in the way that
Speaker 2: teams are affiliated with schools, and players attend classes and
Speaker 2: whatever gets scholarships and the opportunity to make nil money.
Speaker 2: I just I'm trying to sort of fast forward and
Speaker 2: see what a twelve team playoff look looks like. Wherever
Speaker 2: the games are played, whether they're on campus, whether a
Speaker 2: neutral field, NFL stadium type places, what does that look like?
Speaker 2: How does that it benefits the fans, at least in
Speaker 2: the short term in that we get high quality matchups.
Speaker 2: I don't think there are a lot of national college
Speaker 2: football fans in the way that there are national fans
Speaker 2: of other sports because of things like gambling in pools
Speaker 2: and fantasy and things like that. There are I think
Speaker 2: that people are just fans of their teams, and they
Speaker 2: want to see their rivals lose. They want to beat
Speaker 2: their rivals. They want to have as winning a season
Speaker 2: as possible and share the experience with their friends and family.
Speaker 2: That is the core of the sport. And I think
Speaker 2: that's been proven otherwise. That's been proven over and over again.
Speaker 2: So where do we go Once Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson,
Speaker 2: you know, the lightning in a bottle, LSU, you know
Speaker 2: those types of programs are continually dominating the semi finals
Speaker 2: of a twelve team tournament. Do we get to an
Speaker 2: apathetic place where Wisconsin playing Notre Dame or Baylor playing
Speaker 2: Michigan becomes kind of, well, the game is cool, but
Speaker 2: we already know that they can't hang with Alabama. Like
Speaker 2: we saw a playoff this year in which we basically
Speaker 2: had no household names at quarterback just because Bryce Young
Speaker 2: was a freshman it was his first year starting, and
Speaker 2: then Stetson Bennett, Cade McNamara, and Desmond Ritter. So we've
Speaker 2: got a you know, American Conference quarterback, a quarterback for
Speaker 2: Georgia who is good but not the reason, the central
Speaker 2: reason why they were winning, and the quarterback for Michigan
Speaker 2: who is likely not the best quarterback on Michigan's roster
Speaker 2: based on what we look to the future with Michigan
Speaker 2: football and their offense looking like So it's just going
Speaker 2: to be difficult to sell that. I think in the
Speaker 2: long term that this is a good thing for the sport,
Speaker 2: that more teams are getting the opportunity. Now if a
Speaker 2: team like Utah, if a team like Michigan, if a
Speaker 2: team like you know, TCU or something, can turn a
Speaker 2: playoff berth into a huge boon in recruiting and then
Speaker 2: are perennially in that conversation. That's interesting, but that hasn't
Speaker 2: really happened when you look at and Ari brought this
Speaker 2: point up in his piece, Michigan State or Washington or
Speaker 2: even Oregon when they made the playoff, Florida State was
Speaker 2: an a to turn that into year over year playoff
Speaker 2: caliber teams. It's just really difficult. And we have this
Speaker 2: utopian view of college football as a sport with parody
Speaker 2: and everybody gets a shot and settle things on the field,
Speaker 2: and I just don't think it's a reality in which
Speaker 2: we live. So I'm good with expanding the playoff if
Speaker 2: that's what everybody wants do it, But I just I
Speaker 2: don't see how long term the thing that people seem
Speaker 2: to want in parody is solved. It's an opportunity, it's
Speaker 2: an invite. But also I think those of us who
Speaker 2: have watched the sport for a long time, which I
Speaker 2: assume is most people listening to this show kind of
Speaker 2: understand how it's going to go, even if they don't
Speaker 2: want to admit it.
Speaker 1: Right, you know, you can't expand this playoff the thirty two, right, Like,
Speaker 1: there's only so many teams that are truly title worthy.
Speaker 1: And while I do think it's important to expand it
Speaker 1: beyond four. I always thought for it was kind of dumb.
Speaker 1: You've got five power conferences, You've got a whole other
Speaker 1: group of five set of conferences that you claim are
Speaker 1: equal but aren't really, And so to start with four,
Speaker 1: to me, it was always weird.
Speaker 2: Well, they were just trying to incrementally grow, I get,
Speaker 2: and not be true too dramatic. That's what college football is.
Speaker 2: It's a very conservative sport. Competitively, it was stupid.
Speaker 1: It was a stupid move to do what they did.
Speaker 1: I get why they did it, it was still stupid.
Speaker 1: So now we're at this point where expansion seems inevitable.
Speaker 1: If we go to twelve, there will probably be calls
Speaker 1: to go to sixteen at some point or even right.
Speaker 1: That's what worries me. Bracket creep. That was the term
Speaker 1: for it way back whencket creep when we started doing
Speaker 1: sixty eighteen. Yeah, I don't know. I'm I'm for it
Speaker 1: until i'm against it. I'm I'm I'm playing the Politically,
Speaker 1: you'd have Yeah, you'd have crowds chanting flip flop at you.
Speaker 2: I think that's how that would work.
Speaker 1: I would I'm worried about what it does to some
Speaker 1: of those rivalries in the same way that you are.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, if the sport is now
Speaker 1: committed fully to the bit of trying to crown a champion,
Speaker 1: then this is the only way you can do it.
Speaker 1: We'll see, we'll see when we get here. You know,
Speaker 1: it's a few years down the line. It'll be here
Speaker 1: before you know it. But hopefully before then we'll have,
Speaker 1: you know a lot better since for as Jim Phillips says,
Speaker 1: what some of the other changing factors in college football
Speaker 1: are doing to the sport. Hopefully by that point in
Speaker 1: time we'll get all these other wrinkles ironed out. But
Speaker 1: certainly a news story that we're going to have to
Speaker 1: keep tabs on here over the next couple months and years.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you this, Yeah, both of our teams
Speaker 2: have been on the precipice, much more so than ninety
Speaker 2: five percent of programs in college football of winning a
Speaker 2: national championship. In the last decade or so. Notre Dame
Speaker 2: has been in the playoff a couple times, was in
Speaker 2: a BCS national championship against Alabama. Oregon has been in
Speaker 2: two national championship games and lost them, and we were
Speaker 2: certainly rooting like hell for our teams to win national
Speaker 2: championship because it would have been cool to see our
Speaker 2: teams win. So this may sound like a leading question,
Speaker 2: but I think that context is important that we really
Speaker 2: have wanted over the course of the last ten to
Speaker 2: twelve years our teams to win national championships. Is it
Speaker 2: good for college football to be a national championship focused sport?
Speaker 2: And I don't know, there is no college football. We
Speaker 2: have a number of conferences who want different things and
Speaker 2: teams who want different things within those conferences with different
Speaker 2: realistic goals. The focus on a national championship the end
Speaker 2: all be all thing, Like, is that a good thing
Speaker 2: to sort of have as a center, a central point
Speaker 2: of a conversation around the sport because obviously all sports,
Speaker 2: all major sports, are organized in different ways. You know,
Speaker 2: you have EPL where somebody just kind of wins based
Speaker 2: on what happens during the season. But then you have
Speaker 2: the Champions League where you have all sorts of great
Speaker 2: teams playing in a tournament. You have you know, the
Speaker 2: way the Stanley Cup and NBA playoffs in baseball where
Speaker 2: they play a series of games like it's all organized
Speaker 2: in different ways. College football has always been culturally and
Speaker 2: competitively an outlier from the other major sports, and I
Speaker 2: sort of think, and it's impossible to go backwards. I
Speaker 2: understand that. I totally am fully willing to admit that.
Speaker 2: But is there anything that we can do as a
Speaker 2: duo with whatever our audience is. Is there anything that
Speaker 2: can be done in the way the sport is framed
Speaker 2: and the way that even conferences think about their TV
Speaker 2: networks think about the sport where we're maximizing the season,
Speaker 2: and we're maximizing say January first, like New Year's Day
Speaker 2: used to be a holiday. The scarcity of January first
Speaker 2: was the best thing ever. Is there anything that we
Speaker 2: can do in the way that the sport is framed
Speaker 2: and organized that at least moves the focus away?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if we're moving the focus away from
Speaker 1: the championship, the next obvious place to move it would
Speaker 1: be to qualifying for the playoff. Whatever that looks like
Speaker 1: much the way that you would try to put value
Speaker 1: on a conference championship. There are a lot of teams
Speaker 1: out there for who may.
Speaker 2: It's still funneling, I know, but.
Speaker 1: You know, if we're going under the assumption that there's
Speaker 1: really only three teams that can win it. Anyway, getting
Speaker 1: to the playoff is something that you can recruit on
Speaker 1: getting to the playoff if you're a group of five team,
Speaker 1: If you can do it in a couple of years,
Speaker 1: that's suddenly a big time recruiting tool. Maybe we've got
Speaker 1: a group of five program that jumps up and is
Speaker 1: suddenly a lot more prominent the new school Boise State,
Speaker 1: if you will. That's interesting to me, and that's interesting
Speaker 1: to a lot of the people that listen to the show.
Speaker 1: So focusing in this future state on playoff qualification instead
Speaker 1: of national championship is one angle that I think makes
Speaker 1: some sense. Another way that you could play it is
Speaker 1: it could just go full contrarian Dan. You could go
Speaker 1: full Contraria and the way you have on occasion and
Speaker 1: really try to highlight the rivalries and focus on in
Speaker 1: season storylines and not so much on the playoff. You know,
Speaker 1: playoff be damned storyline, something that we got to follow at,
Speaker 1: something we got to cover here on a college football podcast.
Speaker 1: But by not putting as much emphasis on that the
Speaker 1: way the national media would, perhaps then you carve out
Speaker 1: a separate lane for yourself and you find some sympathizers
Speaker 1: with you. Beyond that, though, it is hard to go
Speaker 1: up against this gigantic media storm that is an expanded playoff.
Speaker 1: Whenever it comes to fruition, it's gonna be suffocating in
Speaker 1: the same way that the playoff was suffocating the first
Speaker 1: time around. I'm a playoff proponent. I was all for
Speaker 1: it then, I'm all for it now. I'm interested in
Speaker 1: how this plays itself out. I have concerns as well,
Speaker 1: maybe not to the extent that you do, but I
Speaker 1: just think it will be you will have more Jimmy
Speaker 1: Kimmel commercials, you will have more custom jingles, You'll have
Speaker 1: more of the stupid who's in stuff from ESPN whoever
Speaker 1: gets it. You'll have probably multiple networks at that point
Speaker 1: doing the commercials as well. It will be in your
Speaker 1: face if you're a college football fans, So perhaps to
Speaker 1: just go full one eighty, we're steering into bedlam as
Speaker 1: our national championship. That's one way you could go at it.
Speaker 1: My hunch is that there'll be a lot of folks
Speaker 1: who are very, very sick of all the promotional material
Speaker 1: that comes with a new playoff.
Speaker 2: Of course, more teams means more emphasis on making the playoff,
Speaker 2: on winning the playoff, and I don't know. I'm just
Speaker 2: I don't see that in changing the way that the
Speaker 2: sport is framed in any sort of advantageous way.
Speaker 1: At that point, fallout boys probably in their fifties. Are
Speaker 1: they right in another jingle for the next version of
Speaker 1: the playoff like you did the first time around? I
Speaker 1: don't know if there's an audience for that.
Speaker 2: If we're up to my three year old fallout boy
Speaker 2: can do no and he's all in, so no matter
Speaker 2: their age, he's ready. If we're up to the rest
Speaker 2: of the country and the consuming public, I'm not so sure. Yeah,
Speaker 2: It's what I think we actually need to get to
Speaker 2: is we need to get to a point where we
Speaker 2: rethink the postseason and you can call various things a playoff,
Speaker 2: even if it's like reorganized bull pods and we have
Speaker 2: a mega January first blowout and then we have a
Speaker 2: couple teams emerge from that where I don't know what
Speaker 2: it is. I think the way that the sport is
Speaker 2: organized in conferences, I think we're heading to a point
Speaker 2: where if we still want a national championship, if we
Speaker 2: still want a playoff. We're going to need to get
Speaker 2: to a point where there are I've talked about like
Speaker 2: an ESPN side of things and a Fox side of things,
Speaker 2: that the reason why playoffs work in other sports is
Speaker 2: they're organized in a much more sensical way. Well, there
Speaker 2: are fewer teams, Yes, there are fewer teams. There are
Speaker 2: far fewer teams. And look, if we are going to
Speaker 2: be honest, Cincinnati is a major program. Cincinnati is in
Speaker 2: fact the first group of five pro to make the playoff.
Speaker 2: But they happen to be a major program playing in
Speaker 2: the American So I still am of the mind that
Speaker 2: the sport needs to be organized in a better way
Speaker 2: of how seriously and unseriously programs take major college football.
Speaker 2: And until we get to that point, we're just we're
Speaker 2: just daisy chaining in half thought of ideas in pursuit
Speaker 2: of something that isn't actually advantageous for the sport. So
Speaker 2: it's going to expand we're going to talk about it.
Speaker 2: We will profit from it in our own very tiny
Speaker 2: little way, but in terms of good for the people
Speaker 2: who actually care about the sport, who are on recruiting
Speaker 2: message boards, who are watching spring games, who are watching
Speaker 2: random you know, Hawaii Fresno State at midnight Eastern or whatever.
Speaker 2: I don't think the playoff and expanding the playoff is
Speaker 2: doing right by the central core audience of the sport.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think those people of which we
Speaker 2: are too, I think those people are being led into this.
Speaker 2: What if we made college football a little more like
Speaker 2: the NFL when it's just not.
Speaker 1: Well not Look soliverbo at gmail dot com is the
Speaker 1: email address, as always where you can write in. If
Speaker 1: you're a Patreon subscriber, you can send us a note
Speaker 1: on discord. We'll be stopping by pretty much all of
Speaker 1: the normal checkpoints to see what folks have to say
Speaker 1: about this. I do feel like you have converted some
Speaker 1: to your side of the argument, which is but that's
Speaker 1: which is go back to the bulls Now, it's not
Speaker 1: gonna happen. You know.
Speaker 2: No, I'm good with bowls and bcs. I'm good with that.
Speaker 2: But it's Look, it's again, we're not moving backwards. I
Speaker 2: just there's this like notion that like college football will
Speaker 2: be better if we include the West coast, when a
Speaker 2: lot of people on the West Coast don't care about
Speaker 2: college football. I'm from here, I went to school here,
Speaker 2: and it's a reality, like, oh, people are going to
Speaker 2: care more about the playoff if Washington or Oregon or
Speaker 2: USC isn't it now. They cared about the playoff because
Speaker 2: Pete Carroll was at USC, because they knew or the
Speaker 2: BCS because they knew Matt Liner and Reggie Bush's name.
Speaker 2: There were household names. It's basically impossible right now in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, if we're going to live in the present,
Speaker 2: to have long lists of household names in the sport.
Speaker 2: But all of these other sports with household names are
Speaker 2: able to succeed because people care, people know about the names,
Speaker 2: people care, and so we are we're trying to fit
Speaker 2: the sport into like a weird funnel when the reality
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty two is such that like just doesn't exist.
Speaker 1: More to come on this story, for sure, it had
Speaker 1: been talked about for a good part of the last year.
Speaker 1: It sort of came out of the blue that a
Speaker 1: twelve team playoff, a proposal for the playoff had emerged,
Speaker 1: that they were going to take it up, that there
Speaker 1: was a possibility they could take it up sooner, that
Speaker 1: they could change the system. That's not going to happen,
Speaker 1: not gonna happen for a couple more years, but they're
Speaker 1: surely not to stop talking about it, So let us
Speaker 1: know your thoughts. Again, We're on Twitter, all the social
Speaker 1: media platforms, right and let us know. We'll post clips
Speaker 1: from this episode out there. Please feel free to respond
Speaker 1: on those clips. Let us know what your thoughts are.
Speaker 1: But playoff expansion not happening for the interim, would you
Speaker 1: go to a.
Speaker 2: Notre Dame twelve team playoff game like an opening round game.
Speaker 2: I know you're not a big travel person because of
Speaker 2: the show and you need to be in the studio
Speaker 2: and stuff. But if it worked out that, you know,
Speaker 2: Notre Dame was playing in such a tantalizing matchup and
Speaker 2: in a place that you'd want, like Notre Dame Texas
Speaker 2: in Austin. You like Austin a lot, I would be intrigued.
Speaker 1: I would be intrigued going to one of those games
Speaker 1: on campus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you should be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would be intrigued by that. And to be
Speaker 1: honest with you, all the other stuff aside, that's the
Speaker 1: part that I find the most exciting. That's the part
Speaker 1: that I find the most excited about. An expanded field
Speaker 1: having first round games on campus. I don't know where
Speaker 1: they're at with that, by the way, I don't know
Speaker 1: if that's going to be a thing or not going
Speaker 1: to be a thing. They're trying to force feed that
Speaker 1: through the bowl system or what. But that possibility of
Speaker 1: keeping games on campus, really high leverage games on campus
Speaker 1: is exciting to be I'd love to go to not
Speaker 1: just a Notre Dame game, any of those games.
Speaker 2: I would love it to be on the front end.
Speaker 2: I would love people talk about all of these great
Speaker 2: matchups between teams that you normally don't get to see
Speaker 2: play against each other. I would love some sort of
Speaker 2: central body and some sort of ping pong show in May,
Speaker 2: in February or whatever in the doldrums of the college
Speaker 2: football year to select like every team has four non
Speaker 2: conference games, and there are two or three of them.
Speaker 2: If you're a Power five program, hopefully the ping pong
Speaker 2: ball bounces your way. We're only playing on campus, and
Speaker 2: we're getting all sorts of crazy fun. Matt, we get Oregon, Florida,
Speaker 2: we get Notre Dame. I mean, Notre Dame's played a
Speaker 2: lot of non conference games as an independent team, but
Speaker 2: you get you know, Notre Dame Washington or Notre Dame Texas.
Speaker 2: We a few years ago with the eighteen wheeler game, like,
Speaker 2: we have all of these matchups and it helps us
Speaker 2: to actually figure out who's good for determining a national
Speaker 2: championship at the end of the year because the data
Speaker 2: is so much more meaningful. See that's what i'd like.
Speaker 2: I like this addressed on the front end rather than
Speaker 2: in a playoff. But I don't know, maybe I'm different.
Speaker 1: Well, you know the drill, folks. Soliverbalgmail dot com, Solid
Speaker 1: Verbal dot COM's the website right in let us know
Speaker 1: your thoughts. As we said at the top, Dan currently
Speaker 1: out in sunny southern California. You'll be back. You're coming
Speaker 1: back tomorrow, right.
Speaker 2: Yep, absolutely so.
Speaker 1: You'll be back in the normal digs in time for
Speaker 1: the Thursday episode. Video will be available for that one
Speaker 1: courtesy overbowlers dot com. Don't forget to go on out there,
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Speaker 2: But well that's not as fun.
Speaker 1: Go out there, complete a few free and easy steps
Speaker 1: to get your name in the running, and last will
Speaker 1: certainly not least feel free to follow along on social media. Dan,
Speaker 1: that's all I got for today. Kind of a express
Speaker 1: version of our normal goofiness as we talked through a
Speaker 1: few news items. For that guy over there, my good
Speaker 1: friend Dan Rubinstein, for myself, Tie Hildebrand. We will catch
Speaker 1: you all on Thursday. In the meantime, stay solid, peace,