WEBVTT - Redefining Power 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.480 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to will Gate f Daily 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:18.200 with Me your Girl Danielle Moody pre recording from the 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.120 Brooklyn Bunker, Folks, I hope that you are enjoying this 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:27.160 week in March of our Women Power Week. I wanted 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:33.240 to bring you conversations and books and inspiration and important 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:38.400 news from a woman's perspective, as you get that usually 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:41.360 with me, but I wanted to make a conscious effort 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.480 over the course of this week while I'm away on vacation, 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:51.520 to bring you some really thoughtful conversations, particularly this one. 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:56.520 I'm so happy to welcome to the show for the 0:00:56.640 --> 0:01:01.320 very first time Deepa Porta Shafman, who is the author 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.280 of the First, The Few, and the Only, How Women 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:09.959 of Color Can Redefine Power in Corporate America. Deepa and 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.680 I will get into a conversation that I think is 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.920 you know a similar story that many of us who 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:21.480 have worked, whether you've worked in the nonprofit spere, if 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:25.360 you've worked for government, if you have worked in corporate America, 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:33.400 have experienced the emotional and physical fatigue of microaggressions that 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:36.880 don't seem so micro when you were facing utter and 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:44.080 complete burnout. Deepa found herself as one of the very 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:49.920 few and only woman of color in the C suite 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:57.320 in her company, and Deepa was working, you know, ridiculous hours, 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:00.760 traveling a majority of the year, living outside of a suitcase, 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:04.520 and all of a sudden, she started to feel incredibly unwell. 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:09.400 She'll tell the story about how when she was off 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:14.720 from work, she was sleeping fourteen hour days, that the exhaustion, 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:19.280 the way that she was looking and feeling. She would 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:23.200 go through fifteen doctors before she would get a diagnosis. 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:28.079 That was that had gone overlooked because we tell women 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.880 that when you hit a certain age, oh it's your forties, 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:34.720 Oh it's this, Oh it's that. We don't take into 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:41.080 consideration the physical effects of burnout, the physical effects of 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:45.360 what it is like spending your entire professional life contorting 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:49.079 yourself into a pretzel to fit in to other people's 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.079 expectations and ideas about how you should show up and 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:58.800 how you should present. There is a unspoken of weight 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:03.880 that women of color, and I would argue LGBTQ women, 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:09.959 women from most marginalized communities face right that we don't 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.040 talk about. We're just told to kind of keep your 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:16.200 head down and keep working and not having to deal 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.560 with the job that you will hire to deal with, 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:23.920 and then all of the misogyny, the racism, right, the 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.639 homophobia in some cases the transphobia on top of that. 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.079 And I'll tell you this. I tell you it's a 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:36.200 little bit of a story before I introduce the conversation 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:42.440 with Deepa. So, I, you know, had been working and 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:47.720 have always worked in political and policy spaces, and you know, 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:51.760 by virtue of being raised as one of the only 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:56.560 one right in a white suburb out east on Long Island, 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:58.640 I was used to what it was like to be 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:01.800 in a classroom and be the only black person right. 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.480 That had been my norm. I was used to being 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.280 on sports team and in spaces where I was the 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:13.640 only person, only person of color, and recognizing, you know, 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:18.440 I put an un know an unneeded burden on myself 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:21.400 as a young person because I decided that I would 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:24.440 see myself as an ambassador right that I may be 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.839 the only black person that some of these families, some 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.680 of these kids, ever come into contact with. So I 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:36.960 felt the pressure of having to be this model black 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:41.320 person so that somehow, in my mind, I would stop 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:45.440 them later down the road from being racist. Think about 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:51.080 that think about being in middle school and recognizing that 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:54.719 you are the sole black person that many people around 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:57.520 you are ever going to come into contact with, and 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:01.120 that you feel the burden of forming and acting in 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:05.039 such a way so that somehow you're going to be 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:09.080 able to shift their thinking about other black people, because 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:14.240 in their mind they'll say, oh, but I knew Danielle folks. 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.480 The fact that I even thought that, the fact that 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:23.880 I even did that for so long is ridiculous. And 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:28.120 that's what I talk about when I say the burden 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:34.120 right of having to show up, be perfect, right, navigate 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.680 microaggressions of people telling me that, oh, you know, your 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:39.919 writing is not that great. And I would say, to 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:43.520 these white men who would critique me, where was the 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.839 last place that you were published? Please show me, because 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.640 I'm published in a variety of outlets. So how dare 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.720 you come to me and say that my writing isn't 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.159 up to your part? I said, well, it seemed to 0:05:57.200 --> 0:05:59.560 have worked for Cosmo, seemed to have worked for the 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.760 Center for American Progress, it seemed to have worked for Vogue. 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:07.240 I'm confused about why it doesn't work for you, right, 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:14.560 So deep an Eye we'll talk about you know, a 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:18.920 lot of the ways in which one we are forced 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:26.400 into this minimal view, this crouching that women do to 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.960 not really be seen or to just fit in, and 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:35.600 how that begins to break us down emotionally, physically, and spiritually. 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.520 And so what does it look like to create a network, right, 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.800 a community of women that can be of support to 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:45.680 one another, so that you don't feel alone and you 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.480 don't feel crazy, like you're the only one that is 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:53.240 navigating the obstacles that are put in place by whiteness 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:57.359 and patriarchy, right, and that we are dealing with so 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:01.520 many things at one time when other people, white men, 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:06.080 to just get to show up at work and perform, right, 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:08.680 or white women, Okay, they get to show up at 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:12.400 work and perform, but then they're still right the misogyny. Well, 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:15.120 if you're a woman of color, you're dealing with the misogyny, 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:20.720 you're dealing with the patriarchy, you're dealing with the racism. 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.920 You know, it's enough to drive people crazy. So deep 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:31.040 Up writes this, Women of color comprise one of the 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:36.160 fastest growing segments in the corporate workforce, yet often we 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:40.560 are underrepresented among the first few or only ones in 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:46.280 a department or company for too long, corporate structures, social zeitgeist, 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:51.360 and cultural conditioning have left us feeling exhausted and downtrodden, 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.840 believing that in order to quote fit in and be successful, 0:07:56.320 --> 0:08:00.720 we must hide or change who we are. As a 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:04.760 former senior partner at a large global services firm, Deepa 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:10.640 Portoshatman experience these feelings of isolation and burnout. She met 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.600 with hundreds of other women of color across industries and 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:18.840 cultural backgrounds, eager to hear about their unique and shared experiences. 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:23.480 In In doing so, she has come to understand our 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:29.280 collective setbacks and the path forward in achieving our goals. Business, 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.360 she writes, must evolve, and women of color have the 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:37.160 potential to lead that transformation. We must begin by pushing 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:42.120 back against toxic messaging, including the things we tell ourselves, 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:47.360 while embracing the valuable cultural viewpoints and experiences that give 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:52.920 us unique perspectives at work. By fully realizing our own strengths, 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:57.800 we can build collective power and use it to confront microaggressions, 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:04.000 outdated norms, and work place misconceptions, create cultures we're belonging 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:10.480 is never conditional, and rework corporations to be genuinely inclusive 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:15.240 to all, the first, the few, the only is a 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:19.200 roadmap for us to make a profound impact within and 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:24.080 outside our organizations while ensuring that our words are heard, 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:31.520 our lived experiences are respected, and our contributions are finally valued. Folks, 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.880 if you are a veteran in the workforce, if you 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:40.959 are new to the workforce and a woman of color, 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.600 this book is for you. If you are a white 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.439 woman or a white man, but you are in a 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:52.280 managing position, a position of power, this book is for you. 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:57.480 We can't create cultures and environments that are inclusive without 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.560 identifying that there is a problem to begin with, and 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:04.400 what we are each doing to either perpetuate the wrongs 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.840 that we see or ignore them so that there's no 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:13.040 opportunity for change or expansion. Deepa gives in this book 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:18.480 some really thoughtful advice as well as shares her own 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:23.040 experience about being the only one and how it almost 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:28.679 cost her her life, her well being, her health. And 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:32.200 this is why you know, on wok F I try 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:36.120 and talk about wellness, you know, as often as I can. 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.560 And it's four reasons like this that we are all 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:43.320 managing and dealing with so much and on top of that. 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:45.520 If you are a person of color, if you are 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.720 a queer person or a person from a marginalized community, 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.520 you are dealing with the fuckery on top of fuckery 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:58.320 every day. Right. It is exhausting, and you need to 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:01.920 build up your reserve right as you go to battle 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.680 each and every day. It's why I meditate, go walking, 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:10.080 build community with friends that are like minded and caring, 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.600 that can hold some of the pains and strains that 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:16.240 I deal with on a regular basis. We all need that. 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:21.400 I can remember, you know a friend many many years ago, 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:25.480 it's said, to deal with this world, you need a team, 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.640 right if you can afford to hire that team in 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:36.160 terms of a personal trainer, a meditation guru, a you know, 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:41.880 a bodywork person, a therapist. You need a team. Getting 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:46.960 through this life, particularly now ain't fucking easy. So Deepa 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:52.480 offers in her book, folks, a pathway, a guideline for us, 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:56.280 and also some wonderful essays that allow us to realize 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.840 that we are not alone. So coming up next my 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:10.280 conversation with the brilliant Deepa Portashatman, I hope that you enjoy, folks. 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.120 I am very excited to welcome to wok F a 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:17.920 daily for the very first time author of the book, 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.920 The First, the Few, the Only, How women of Color 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:27.040 can redefine power in Corporate America. Deepa Pershathaman, thank you 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.439 so much for joining woke F and for writing a 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.200 book that you know. Mind you. I want to say 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.160 that this may be one of the first to really 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:40.800 examine what it is like to be a woman of 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.960 color in in corporate America. To be a woman of 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:48.160 color in any workplace and professional setting is a space 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:50.840 where you're doing multiple jobs. You're doing the one that 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:54.320 you were hired for, uh, and then a lot of 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:58.840 the behind the scenes work to you know, unpack white supremacy, 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:04.200 to back you know, uh, misogyny, to do all of 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:08.199 these things as the first So talk to us about 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:12.960 how this book came to be and what experiences you 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:17.200 have had that led you to the creation of this book. Yes, 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.400 thank you so first of all, thank you for having me. Yes, 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.319 I want to believe it's one of the first books, 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:24.120 but it's not the first book. There's out you know, 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:25.920 of course, other books out there, and I want to 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:29.240 give them their due because my sisters also need attention 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.400 for the books that they have done like Menda Hearts 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.880 right has been a pioneer this work, and so I 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.559 love her work. But yes, it does feel like this 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.160 is one of the first books that has this many stories. Right, 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.880 So I interviewed over five hundred women of color. Was 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:43.960 very intentional in the term women of color, and we 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.000 can unpack that as well. But it started because of 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:49.080 my own journey. So I was a partner in a 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:52.480 very large firm, Deloitte. I was one of our first partner. 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:56.040 I made partner young and candidly. Being a first I 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.280 didn't see role models that look like me, and there 0:13:58.280 --> 0:13:59.960 weren't a lot of women of color in front of me, 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.640 whether it was the company or other clients, and so 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:04.920 there was always a struggle of belonging and fitting in. 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.680 It also kind of came in how I grew up. 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:09.640 I grew up in a white town, and so navigating 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.719 spaces and schools and universities that, you know, where I 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:14.880 didn't feel like I belonged and I was making it 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.360 up as I go. We also didn't talk about race 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.000 at home, which might be different from some of your listeners. 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.320 Like being of Indian descent, my parents were immigrants to 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:23.680 this country, so there was a lot of if you 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.200 just work hard, it'll all work itself out, and I 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.680 would navigate spaces and no, that's not the case. But 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.680 there was no place to have that conversation. And so 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.120 as I was struggling, I struggled for three years and 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:35.880 whether or not I wanted to quit my job or 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.000 leave my job. I was in a very senior role, 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.360 highly visible, all eyes on me, you know, at the 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.040 height of my career, and it was a combination of 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.960 questions around purpose and then getting really sick in all 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.800 candle like burnt out. Probably traumatize that we can unpack 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.680 as well. And I started meeting with women of color. 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:55.400 Very long answer, very sure. I started meeting with women 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.520 of color. It started one on one, then two person, 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.360 then three person, and then with my now business, we 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.920 ended up doing twelve dinners across the country where we 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.920 gathered twenty or thirty women of color each, all senior women, 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:07.760 because I was looking for at a senior level, where 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.080 does one go we would get in these rooms? I 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.960 thought for one or two hours, six or seven hours later, 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.840 we were still in the rooms talking about the microaggressions, 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:18.600 the racism, the being a first what it's like to 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:20.880 the extra work. I call it the job and the job, 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:23.400 all of these topics, and none of these women had 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.840 talked about it before because we all were navigating on 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.760 our own. So I knew right then it was special. 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:30.560 I knew right then that there was something to be 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:32.680 talked about. It was freeing to me, it was freeing 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:34.880 to them, And so that became the basis for the 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.280 book and also for the company that we started that's 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.720 also about safe space for women of color. Deep But 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.960 that's amazing, And I want to go back to a 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:50.000 point that you made about getting sick and feeling this burnout, 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:56.080 you know, in coming from your Indian family who basically said, 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:59.160 you know, just work hard, right, just work hard, put 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.400 your head down, and get the job done. They must 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:04.760 have been very excited about the fact that you were 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.960 so young, right, and being promoted in this major, you know, 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:15.040 corporation that is very well known. But did you how 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:19.680 did you experience your burnout? Were you feeling like you 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:23.520 weren't up to the task because your parents had said 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:26.480 just work hard, and you were working hard. How did 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:31.040 you experience your burnout? Yeah, it was I think that 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:32.920 was some of it. Where there was always a high 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:35.280 lesson or a big lesson in my family of just 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.560 work harder and do more, and performance and productivity were 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.760 super important, which is I think now I understand better 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.960 as a lot of white supremacy, indoctrination, do more and 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.840 all of that. But it's very immigrant, you know, very 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.240 strong and immigrant families. And I did talk to a 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:52.640 lot of different groups just to share with you. What 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:54.280 was interesting is some of the black women had a 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.760 different perspective, a small segment, but with everyone else there 0:16:57.800 --> 0:16:59.440 was a common thread of just work harder and it'll 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.160 be okay, I'm peanut buttering a little bit of you know, 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.000 the conversations over five hundred, but there were some patterns 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.920 amongst types of women and where they came from, how 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:10.119 many you know, how many decades they were here if 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:12.520 they were immigrants, So there is some there is some grouping. 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:15.199 But yes, I do think that was it. I also, 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:19.320 you know, I was rewarded for sacrificing my health. I mean, 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:21.120 I am now at a point in my life where 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.080 I can tell you I know that success has to 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.479 come with health. Like I don't think those two ideas 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.840 are different. But when I was in corporate America and 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.119 I think it's true for a lot of workplaces. I 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.439 got more money, I got raises, I got promotions as 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.840 a result of sacrificing my personal life and probably sacrificing 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.280 my health. And so it's a big question for me. 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:42.359 I mean, ultimately, for me, it became unquestionable. So I 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.240 was at my fifteenth doctor. I had, you know, all 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.560 kinds of growing symptoms over two or three years. I 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:49.760 just sold the biggest project of my career, had just 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:52.080 gotten married, I tell the story in the book, And 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:53.800 all of these things were coming to a head, and 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:57.119 I was getting progressively and progressively sicker and sicker. And 0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:59.200 so I'm sitting in the doctor's office and she's looking 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:01.280 at me, and she has run hundreds of tests, and 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.119 she's agreeing there's something wrong with me. But we can't 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.280 find the smoking gun, as I call it. And she said, 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:07.800 we can run more tests, or I can just tell 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:09.960 you what you already know. Your job is killing you. 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.679 And the stress, the travel. So if you remember, my 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.480 job was living out of a suitcase. I did three 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.520 cities a week sometimes, so I even my own bed. 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:21.919 I didn't eat well, right. I was very much performance oriented, 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.879 And so she asked me three life changing questions, and 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:27.000 I write about this. She said, what would you do 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.280 if you didn't do a big job like this? Do 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:30.919 you feel number two? Do you feel like you have 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.239 to do a big job like this to feel you know, 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:37.560 to feel powerful? And three don't you see value in 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.800 just being you? And I just felt seen through. I 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.560 literally like a moment of reckoning. And so I left 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:48.040 that doctor and really had to ask myself some hard questions. 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:51.080 I ended up, you know, my fifteenth doctor with a 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:53.320 sixteenth doctor with a with a line, a late stage 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.040 line diagnosis that had probably been triggered during the stress. 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.760 And the symptoms were pretty strong, pretty severe. I had 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:00.840 i'd pins and needles, it up on bed rest for 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:02.920 almost eight months, so it was a pretty severe case. 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:05.640 Oh my god, I had a deep pushing through that. Yeah, 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:07.720 And I will share one last thing and then it 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.359 happy to answer more questions. But what's interesting is the 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.960 number one, hands down, most glaring thing from these five 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.720 hundred women that I interviewed is that almost all of them, 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.560 so two and three women I interviewed was sick similar 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.760 to me. So some sort of undiagnosable illness, so not 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:26.119 like cancer or some sort of clear, you know, you 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:28.760 can see a doctor and hopefully get a treatment sort 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:32.760 of illness, but more skin rashes, stomach pains, heart palpitations, 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:36.919 fertility issues, you know, rashes, all kinds of these what 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.399 we call mysterious illnesses or disorders that I've now spoken 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.040 to enough doctors. I think it's trauma and stress related. 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.760 And we've never really had conversation in space for that. 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.760 What happens when you're not seen and heard in structures, right, 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:51.640 and what happens when you constantly edit yourself and let 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:54.040 go of parts of yourself. Well, this is what happens. 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:55.800 I believe it shows up in your body if you 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.080 don't listen. And I'm a great example of what happened. 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:01.800 You know. It's so interesting because also, you know, what 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:06.520 we know to be true about Western medicine in particular, 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:10.560 is that we don't really interrogate the differences between men 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:15.720 and women. We don't interrogate the differences between people of color. 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.040 I remember going into a doctor, and I've told this 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.280 story on WOKE a f before, where I'd gone in 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.680 for a regular physical many moons ago. I was when 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.399 I was living in Washington, DC, gone in for a 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.720 regular physical comes back, my white blood cell count is low, 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:36.199 and my general practitioner was was alarmed by the numbers 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:41.120 while I head into hematologists to come and find out that, yes, 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.600 your white blood cell count is low. But if we're 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:47.640 comparing you to white Europeans, to white Europeans, then yes 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.159 it seems low. If I'm comparing you to other black people, 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:54.960 yes it is normal. And so here's what you need 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:59.040 to understand about how you are being measured, right, And 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.520 he and he, you know, a great doctor, and he 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:03.479 was just like, I'm going to monitor you for the 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.280 next three months just to make sure that you know, 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:08.720 all is actually well. But I just want to start 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:12.200 off this conversation with saying, just how we are measuring 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:16.000 you is not even right, you know. So then for women, 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:22.280 particularly women of color, to go into the medical industrial 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:26.160 complex where we are our voices are ignored, right, um 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:32.040 our feelings and our physical feelings are are oftentimes ignored. 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:34.880 How do you how did you even get I mean, 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:37.879 I guess you know, was it that you had another 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:41.679 woman doctor or like, how how were you able? And 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:46.040 it took fifteen, right, it took fifteen to get super clear? 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:49.560 Why story is not dissimilar than and it's I think 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:51.600 most acute as you're saying for black women that that's 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:54.200 also true in the health in the health space, right. Um, 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:56.560 I was told so many times you turn forty, this 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:58.439 is what happens when you turn forty, and I'm like, 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:01.560 this is not forty. I have mono. I have you know? 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:04.560 I had shingles. I'd all literally everything. Every two weeks. 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:06.840 I was in some sort of you know, spin on 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:09.760 being sick. I don't I knew it wasn't normal. So 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.280 many white male doctors told me it was just forty, 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:14.399 and I just wouldn't take that for an answer. I 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:16.679 honestly felt like I was unplugged, is what I'd call it, 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.080 or dying, like my battery was not recharging. I got lucky, 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:22.000 so I left that doctor's office that I mentioned to 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.199 you where she asked me those three questions, and I 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:26.639 went back to my hotel room and I started crying, 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.159 and I called a senior manager on my project. That 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:32.840 senior manager happened to have a dad who was a rheumatologist, 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.600 and she said, my dad is like doctor House, I 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:37.880 believe you have lyme disease. I'm just telling you from 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:39.879 all the things he talks about he's got like a 0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:41.800 six month waiting list, but I'm going to make a call. 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:43.560 I want you to go see him. Just please go 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:45.280 see him. I'm pretty sure this is what it is. 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:47.520 And she made the call and he's the one that 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:49.680 diagnosed it and got me on a path to wellness. 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:53.439 So it was I believe in interventions like the universe intervening, 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:55.680 and so yeah, I listened. Yeah, I was desperate. I 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:58.000 was desperate enough to she had offered once or twice before, 0:22:58.040 --> 0:23:00.159 and I was like, it's you know, I want to 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:02.479 see another doctor. I'm sure it's not that. He sounded 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:05.080 a little bit scary to me. And at that point 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:07.080 I just said I'll take whatever help the universe is 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:09.679 bringing me because I can't. I can't solve this anymore. 0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:12.359 I honestly couldn't keep going. I had just had been 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:14.359 maybe two years married at that point, and I remember 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:16.480 saying to my husband, I'm sorry that we got married, 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:18.239 Like this is not the life you signed up for. 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:20.199 I had no energy. I would just sit on the 0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:22.439 couch when I got home on the weekends and sleep 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:24.920 for like fourteen hours a day because I was trying 0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:27.040 to catch up on my sleep. So it was a 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:29.280 really severe situation. But I think a lot of us 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:32.359 ignore how we're feeling. And I think had I maybe 0:23:32.359 --> 0:23:35.199 had more tools earlier, I would have insisted, you know, 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:37.680 as a symptom started mounting like that, none of this 0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:41.080