1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome 3 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: Today we are going to talk about England's largest and 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: deadliest set of witch trials, which were largely influenced by 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: one man. That was Matthew Hopkins, who was known as 7 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: the witch Finder General, although this really doesn't seem like 8 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: a title that was given to him in any kind 9 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: of formal or official capacity. This happened in the region 10 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: of East Anglia between sixteen forty five and sixteen forty seven, 11 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: so it was after the peak of witch trial activity 12 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: in early modern Europe, but it was also a couple 13 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: of decades before the Salem witch Trials on the other 14 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: side of the Atlantic Ocean. Most of the people who 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: were put to death in these trials were poor, elderly women, 16 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: and some of the methods that Hopkins and other investigators 17 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: were using could be classified as torture, even though torture 18 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: was not supposed to be used in cases of witchcraft 19 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: at that time. So this behavior on his part was 20 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: so over the line to a lot of people that 21 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: he earned a lot of criticism for it in his day. Yeah, 22 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: I think we tend to think that, oh, looking back, 23 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: that was horrible, but everyone was on board then. No, no, 24 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: absolutely not. These witch trials were not really about things 25 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: like pagan practices or herbal medicine or fortune telling. As 26 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: a basic definition, a witch was someone who was believed 27 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: to be using magic to do harm. People who are 28 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: using magic for good, like curing diseases were often called 29 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: white witches or cunning folk. Aside from the fact that 30 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: cunning folk were sometimes called in to help identify witches, 31 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: they weren't typically part of these trials at all unless 32 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: someone found a reason to suspect them of doing harm. 33 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: I think one of the common ideas about which trials 34 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: is that somebody was practicing herbal medicine and authorities found 35 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: that really threatening for some reason, and that wasn't so 36 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: much the case with what was going on here. Beyond 37 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: the basic idea of causing harm with witchcraft, specific beliefs 38 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: about which is really varied over time and from one 39 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: place to another. For example, the idea that which is 40 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: made a pact with the devil was common in some 41 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: parts of Europe before the seventeenth century, but it didn't 42 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: really make its way to what's now the UK and 43 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: Ireland until a little bit later. It might have been 44 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: introduced by King James, the sixth of Scotland and first 45 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: of England. King James wrote about that idea in his 46 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 1: book Demonology, which he published in fifteen nine seven. That 47 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: was shortly after ascending to the throne of Scotland, and 48 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: the idea of making pacts with the devil and having 49 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: demonic familiars was a huge part of the witch trials 50 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: that we're talking about today, but really not so much 51 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: in English witch trials that happened centuries before. There were 52 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: also variations in exactly how different communities dealt with suspected witches. 53 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: To look at England and Scotland again, and both had 54 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: laws against witchcraft by the sixteenth century. But in England 55 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: the demand for accused witches to be brought to justice 56 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: tended to start with members of a community who believed 57 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: that they had personally been harmed. In Scotland, that demand 58 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: tended to come from the ruling elite out of a 59 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: broader desire to root out which is and anything else 60 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: that was contrary to God. And early modern England witchcraft 61 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: accusations tended to follow a pretty regular pattern. Given how 62 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: deeply ingrained the belief in witchcraft was. It's totally possible 63 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: that there were some people who actually were trying to 64 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: harm their neighbors in some way, But most of the 65 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: time these accusations were faults, and it was really about 66 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: an interpersonal dispute. Here's an example from the trials that 67 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: we're talking about today. Robert Taylor testified that Elizabeth Gooding 68 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: came into his shop and asked for half a pound 69 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: of cheese, which she would pay for later. He said no, 70 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: because he's horrible and denied people cheese. No, that's a 71 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: totally not the thing. Uh. She muttered under her breath 72 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: about it, came back later with the money and bought 73 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: the cheese. That night, Taylor's horse fell ill, and four 74 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: days later that horse died, which he said was Elizabeth 75 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: Goodings doing as a payback for him refusing to help her. 76 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Gooding denied all of these allegations entirely. So while 77 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: these kinds of interpersonal disputes could spark isolated accusations of witchcraft, 78 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: they weren't usually enough on their own to set off 79 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: a huge panic When that did happen, there was typically 80 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: some other larger issue going on that was causing other 81 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: social or political or economic unrest. In the case of 82 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: Matthew Hopkins time as a witch finder, that's something else. 83 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: Was the English Civil Wars okay as a quick recap. 84 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: The English Civil Wars spanned from sixteen forty two to 85 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: sixteen fifty one, and they also involved Ireland in Scotland. 86 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: In England, the dispute was between the monarchy and its 87 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: supporters on one side, and Parliament and its supporters on 88 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: the other. Charles the First had ruled England without a 89 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: parliament from six to sixteen forty, a period known as 90 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: the personal Rule that has come up on the show before. 91 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: He only summoned to parliament when he had no other choice. 92 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 1: But the King and Parliament disagreed over a number of matters, 93 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: especially whether the king or parliament should have control over 94 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: the military. During the English Civil Wars, King Charles the 95 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: First was executed, his son, Charles the Second was sent 96 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: into exile, and at least a hundred and eighty thousand 97 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: people were killed in battle or as a result of 98 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: the war. And then, on top of all of the 99 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: violence and chaos and loss of life. Both sides in 100 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: the English Civil War used the idea of witchcraft to 101 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: target the other. Royalist propaganda quoted First Samuel fifty three 102 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: from the Bible, which reads for rebellion is as the 103 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: sin of witchcraft. Parliamentarians claimed that Charles, the first nephew 104 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: Prince Rupert of the Rhine, was a witch and that 105 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: his dog Boy was as familiar. Battlefield losses were blamed 106 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: on bewitchment, and in sixteen forty three parliamentarian forces executed 107 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: a woman just before the Battle of Newbury. According to 108 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: written accounts, first they examined her and they found physical 109 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: evidence on her body that she was a witch. Although 110 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: hundreds of executions for witchcraft were carried out during the 111 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: English Civil Wars, this one in Newbury was something of 112 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: an anomaly because witchcraft was a crime that was typically 113 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: handled through the English courts. This legal history went back 114 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: to fifteen seventeen with the Bill against Conjurations and Witchcrafts 115 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 1: and Sorcery and Enchantments, which made witchcraft a felony punishable 116 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,239 Speaker 1: by death. That law was later repealed, but the Act 117 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: against Conjurations, Enchantments and Witchcrafts followed in fifteen sixty two. 118 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: The law that was in effect during the events that 119 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: we're talking about today was the sixteen o four Act 120 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: against Conjuration, Witchcraft and Dealing with Evil and Wicked Spirits. 121 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: It repealed that fifteen sixty two law before going on 122 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: to say, quote, if any person or persons, after the 123 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: said feast of Saint Michael the Archangel next coming, shall 124 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:13,119 Speaker 1: use practice or exercise any invocation or conjuration of any 125 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: evil and wicked spirit, or shall consult, covenant with, entertain, employ, feed, 126 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: or reward any evil and wicked spirit to, or, for 127 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: any intent or purpose, or take up any dead man, woman, 128 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: or child out of his, her or their grave or 129 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: any other place where the dead body resideth, or the skin, bone, 130 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: or any other part of any dead person, to be 131 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: employed or used in any manner of witchcraft, sorcery, charm, 132 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: or enchantment, or shall use practice or exercise any witchcraft, enchantment, charm, 133 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: or sorcery whereby any person shall be killed, destroyed, wasted, consumed, pined, 134 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: or lamed in his or her body or any part thereof. 135 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: So if any person who did all of that stuff 136 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: that I just read, they would be put to death 137 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,239 Speaker 1: as a felon, as would anybody who aided or abetted 138 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: or counseled them. The method of execution in these cases 139 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: was generally hanging. Under the same law, anyone who used 140 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: witchcraft to find treasure, provoke unlawful love, or cause harm 141 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: to cattle or goods would be imprisoned for a year. 142 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: Of course, the parliamentarians execution of the woman known as 143 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: the Newberry which wasn't the only extra judicial killing of 144 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: a suspected which there were definitely other instances of vigilante 145 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: murder as well, but it was far more common for 146 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: an accused which to be tried before a jury in 147 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 1: the same court system that was being used for other crimes. 148 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: Through much of the sixteenth and seventeen centuries, it was 149 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,719 Speaker 1: possible and even likely to be found not guilty of witchcraft. 150 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: For example, between fifteen sixty and sixteen hundred, two hundred 151 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: fifty eight people were indicted for witchcraft in the home 152 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,839 Speaker 1: circuit assizes. The assizes were criminal courts that tended to 153 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: focus on more serious crimes. Less than a quarter of 154 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: those two hundred fifty eight people were found guilty. Even 155 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: after the passage of the Witchcraft Act of sixteen o four, 156 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 1: which was stricter than the law that it replaced. Conviction 157 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: rates still tended to be about twenty or lower, even 158 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: though there were definitely periods where that percentage was much higher. 159 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: The witch trials that happened in East Anglia between sixteen 160 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: forty five and sixteen forty seven happened during one of 161 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: those periods when a lot more people were convicted of witchcraft. 162 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: The chaos of the English Civil Wars had led to 163 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: an increase in the number of witchcraft allegations. Authorities in 164 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: general were also overstretched because of the war, and then 165 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: on top of that, the courts themselves were understaffed. Most 166 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: of the assize circuits had lost at least one judge 167 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: after the ones who had sanctioned King Charles's personal rule 168 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: of England were impeached. So an overburdened, understaffed court system 169 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: was having to deal with a sudden influx of all 170 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: of these allegation. Jens, and another important point, Matthew Hopkins 171 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: was out there drumming up allegations, and we're gonna get 172 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: into that. After we first paused for a little sponsor break, 173 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: Matthew Hopkins went from relative obscurity to being the most 174 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: notorious and influential figure in England's largest series of which 175 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: trials seemingly overnight. His father was a Puritan named James Hopkins, 176 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: who was vicar of Great Winnham in Suffolk, England. James 177 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: took that position in sixteen twelve, which was a couple 178 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: of years after he got married. James's father had been 179 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: a landowner and he inherited money from both of his parents, 180 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: so the family was able to live pretty comfortably regardless 181 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: of how profitable their vicarage was, and they were able 182 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: to set their children up with trusts. James Hopkins died 183 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: around sixteen thirty four. That's the year that his will 184 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: was proved or legally ex cepted as the last will 185 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: of the deceased. That will referenced six children, including Matthew 186 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: and his brother Thomas. It left them in the care 187 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: of his widow, with instructions that they be brought up 188 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: quote in the fear of God. This suggests that at 189 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: least some of James's children were not legal adults yet 190 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: when he wrote this will. Based on the timing of 191 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: his marriage and death and the fact that Matthew was 192 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: the fourth of six children, most sources estimate that he 193 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: was born in sixteen nineteen or later, and then it 194 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: is a mystery. Given the family's affluence, Matthew probably had 195 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: a good education, but we don't really know in what 196 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: He's often described as being a lawyer, but there's no 197 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: evidence that he formally studied law. Although his fixation with 198 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: witchcraft clearly had some religious roots, it does not seem 199 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: as though he wanted to follow in his father's footsteps 200 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: into the clergy. We don't even know whether he had 201 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: really studied the literature of the day on witchcraft and 202 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: the identification of witches, which there was a whole lot of. 203 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 1: There was the Malleus Maleficarum, or The Hammer of Witches, 204 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 1: which was written by two Dominicans from Germany and Austria 205 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 1: and published around fourteen eighty six. The Hammer of Witches 206 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: became a standard manual for witch hunting, and there were 207 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: almost thirty editions published between fourteen eighty six and sixteen hundred. 208 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: We mentioned King James's Demonology earlier. That was a compendium 209 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: on necromancy, sorcery and spirits, and it might have been 210 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: one of the sources for Shakespeare's Macbeth. George Gifford produced 211 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: two books on witchcraft. They were A Discourse of the 212 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: Subtle Practices of Devils by Witches and Sorcerers in eight seven, 213 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: and a Dialogue concerning Witches and Witchcrafts in free John 214 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: Coda published The Trial of Witchcraft in sixteen sixteen and 215 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: then republished it nine years later as The Infallible, True 216 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: and Assured Witch. Richard Bernard's A Guide to Grand Juryman 217 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: came out in sixteen twenty seven and discussed methods of 218 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: identifying which is, as well as natural conditions in quotation 219 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: marks that might be mistaken for witchcraft. There were to 220 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: be clear also writers arguing that at least some of 221 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:17,479 Speaker 1: this was superstitious nonsense, including the more skeptical The Discovery 222 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: of Witchcraft by Reginald Scott in four As an aside, 223 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: he has long been on my list as a subject. 224 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: How good this show. I went down kind of a 225 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: rabbit hole of all of these various writings on witchcraft 226 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: and was like, I wish we could just do episodes 227 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: on all of them, because some of them are just 228 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 1: so bizarre in their claims that they put forth um 229 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: Various historians have closely read Hopkins writing to try to 230 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: find traces of these and other previous works on witchcraft. 231 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 1: They have drawn varying conclusions on what he might or 232 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 1: might not have been familiar with. Given his upbringing and 233 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,079 Speaker 1: his father's position, and the really widespread belief in this 234 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 1: type of witchcraft, it's probably something that he would have 235 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: talked about at home among his family. But aside from 236 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: King James's Demonology, Hopkins doesn't directly reference any of these 237 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: previous works in his own writing. He instead says that 238 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: his knowledge of witchcraft and how to identify witches came 239 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: from his own experience. I like how the idea of 240 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: talking about it at home leads me, of course, be like, 241 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: if you don't talk to your kids about witchcraft, I 242 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: learned it by watching you, right exactly. That's exactly the 243 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: whole entire self entertainment loop that's running in my head 244 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: right now. That experience, though, that Tracy just referenced, started 245 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: in sixteen forty four, when Hopkins was living in Manningtree 246 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: in Essex. In his account in which he refers to 247 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: himself in the third person quote in March sixteen forty four, 248 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: he had some seven or eight of that horrible sect 249 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: of which is living in the town where he lived, 250 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: a town in Essex called Manningtree with diverse other adjacent 251 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: witches of other towns, who every six weeks in the night, 252 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: being always on the Friday night, had their meeting close 253 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: by his house and had their several solemn sacrifices they're 254 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: offered to the devil. Hopkins went on to say that 255 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: one night he heard one of the witches talking to 256 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: her imps and telling them to go to another witch, 257 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: who was then caught and searched for a devil's mark, 258 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: which these which is purportedly used to feed their imp familiars. 259 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: In this case, the woman who was examined had quote 260 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: three teeths about her, which honest women have not. This 261 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: woman was Elizabeth Clark, who was an elderly disabled woman 262 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: who was living in poverty. Having identified the mark, the 263 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: next step to identifying a witch was to keep her 264 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: awake for at least two or three days to lure 265 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: her familiars into coming to her assistance. This was known 266 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: as watching the witch, and sometimes it was combined with 267 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: walking or making the accused woman stay on her feet 268 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: pacing around, sometimes until she injured herself. In Hopkins account, 269 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: the familiars in this case appeared on the fourth night, 270 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: and there were ten people in the room when it happened. 271 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: Hopkins said, Clark called several familiars. Quote one Holt who 272 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: came in like a white kittling. To Jarmara, who came 273 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: in like a fat spaniel without any any legs at all. 274 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: She said she kept him fat for she clapped her 275 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: hand on her belly and said he sucked the good 276 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: blood from her body. Three Vinegar Tom, who was like 277 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: a long legged greyhound with an head like an ox, 278 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: and a long tail and broad eyes, who, when this 279 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: discoverer spoke to and bade him go to the place 280 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: provided for him and his angels, immediately transformed himself into 281 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: the shape of a child four years old without a head, 282 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: and gave half a dozen turns about the house and 283 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: vanished at the door. Four Sack and Sugar like a 284 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: black rabbit. Five News like a pull cat. After this, 285 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: Hopkins said, the imprisoned Clark named several other witches from 286 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: the community, including where their witch marks were, how many 287 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: imps they had, and what those imps names were. Those 288 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: were names that included Elamanzer, Pie, Whackett, Peck. In the Crown, Grizzle, 289 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 1: and greedy gut. So if you're looking for pet names, 290 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: maybe make a list today, because there are a lot 291 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: of good ones in this episode. As I was working 292 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: on this, I kept getting really frustrated because, I mean, 293 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 1: the story is about a lot of women, most of 294 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: them elderly and living in poverty, who were put to 295 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: death for no reason and sometimes tortured beforehand, which is awful, 296 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: But these descriptions of their familiars and stuff are amazing, 297 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: and I'm like, I having like I wish this story 298 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: wasn't so horrible and tragic because these are great. Yeah. 299 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: I mean, that's always like the long term appeal of 300 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: of all of these stories, right, there is something fantastical 301 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: and fantasy and wonderful about them. Like it's this panic 302 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: made people real creative, um, but unfortunately it also made 303 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: them jerks and read women with just deplorable uh methods. 304 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So like we don't want to minimize that 305 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: at all. But at the same time, Pie Wackett and 306 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: peck in the Crown, like it's fascinating. While she was 307 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: being questioned, Elizabeth Clark said that Anne West was another witch, 308 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: and soon accusations of witchcraft were spreading all through the community. 309 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: Rebecca West, who was Anne's teenage daughter, accused several women 310 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: as well, including also accusing her mother. After these and 311 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: other accusations, trials began in sixty five, Clark gave her 312 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: own testimony about this before the Right Honorable Robert Earl 313 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: of Warwick and several Justices of the Peace. In her confession, 314 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: she said that the devil had been coming to lie 315 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: with her in bed for six or seven years. She 316 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: traced it back to another woman. That woman being and West. 317 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: Clark had been gathering sticks in a field one day, 318 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: and Anne West had seen her and felt sorry for 319 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: her because she only had one leg. According to Clark, 320 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: West said she would send quote a thing like a 321 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: little kittlin that would help her and bring her provisions. 322 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: And her confession, Rebecca West said that she and Leech, 323 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Gooding, Helen Clark, and her mother had all met 324 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,360 Speaker 1: at Elizabeth Clark's house. They had prayed to their familiars, 325 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: and they'd planned a number of misfortunes and tragedies that 326 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: had happened in the community, and she said that the 327 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: devil came to them while they were there. Her confession 328 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: ended with the devil having appeared to her at night 329 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: and married her, a thing that we should note here. 330 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: All of this testimony about the appearance of familiars in 331 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: various animal forms suckling on the bodies of the accused 332 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: sounds really bizarre. Some of this is often attributed to 333 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: the nature of the questioning. If watchers kept a suspected 334 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: which awake for days at a time, she was likely 335 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: to be delirious by the end of it, and it 336 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: would make total sense for her sleep deprived statements to 337 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: sound absolutely unreal. Many of the techniques used to test 338 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: which is are defined as abuse or torture today, so 339 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 1: it also makes a lot of sense that the accused 340 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: people would tell the investigators what they wanted to hear 341 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: to just stop the torture, or otherwise simply to protect 342 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: their own life. At the same time, though people sincerely 343 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 1: believed that this type of witchcraft and these imps and familiars, 344 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: they believed all that was real, and in court documents, 345 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 1: the watchers and the investigators, who hadn't been through any 346 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: of these ordeals themselves, also described personally seeing these demonic 347 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: familiars in various shapes and forms. In the case of 348 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Clark, that included Matthew Hopkins, his associate John Stern, 349 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: for women who had participated in watching her, and other people, 350 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: all of whom testified to personally seeing these familiars when 351 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: they were in court. The testimonies from this first set 352 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: of sixt witch trials are documented in a true and 353 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: exact relation of the several information, examinations and confessions of 354 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: the late witches arraigned and executed in the County of 355 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 1: Essex who were arraigned and condemned at the late Sessions 356 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: Holden at Chelmsford before the Right Honorable Robert, Earl of 357 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: Warwick and several of His Majesty's Justices of Peace the 358 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: twenty nine of July sixty five, wherein the several murthrs 359 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 1: and devilish witchcrafts committed on the bodies of men, women 360 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: and children and diverse cattle are fully discovered published by authority. 361 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: So there are scans of this online and it goes 362 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: on and on with pages of testimony detailing witch marks 363 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: and imps and marriages to the devil, as well as accidents, illnesses, 364 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:46,199 Speaker 1: miscarriages and deaths that the witches purportedly caused and in 365 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: some cases confessed to. In July of sixteen forty five, 366 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,719 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Clarke and Anne West were tried, along with thirty 367 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: four other suspected witches. Nineteen of them were executed by hanging, 368 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: and nine more died of disease in prison. Rebecca West 369 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: was released in exchange for testifying against the others. Only 370 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 1: one of those women was actually acquitted. These accusations and 371 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: trials then spread well beyond Essex, and we will get 372 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: to that after another sponsor break. The accusations of witchcraft 373 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: that were made in Manningtree were the start of a 374 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 1: set of witch trials so widespread and so closely associated 375 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: with Matthew Hopkins that it is sometimes called the Hopkins 376 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: witch Panic. Hopkins and his associate John Stern traveled from 377 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 1: place to place investigating reports of witchcraft, inspecting women's bodies 378 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: for marks, watching suspected witches, and in some cases swimming them, 379 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 1: which was throwing them into the water, sometimes tied up 380 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: to see if they would sink or float. More than 381 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: ten people were put on trial in Sudbury, Forty and Norfolk, 382 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: and in Huntingtondonshire. They were overwhelmingly, but not exclusively women. 383 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: The records are not always clear, but in total, at 384 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: least two hundred fifty people were put on trial in 385 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: East Anglia between sixteen and sixteen forty seven, and more 386 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: than one hundred of them were executed. Some estimates double 387 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: all of those numbers. The number of accusations was so 388 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: big that Parliament appointed a special Commission of Oyer and 389 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: termin or to hear the cases, and that followed the 390 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: letter of the sixteen o four Witchcraft Law. The commission 391 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: criticized Hopkins and his methods. Torture had been outlawed and 392 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,959 Speaker 1: the questioning of witches, so they thought some of what 393 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: he was doing was unacceptable. Although the most questionable cases 394 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: were thrown out, most of the accused were again found guilty. 395 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: Although Hopkins and Stern maintained that they only went to 396 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: places where they had been invited by concerned people in 397 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: the community, the people in those towns were not universally welcoming, 398 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: even apart from the people being accused of which craft. 399 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: The witch finders were paid for their work and paid well, 400 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: so people accused them of making up allegations for money. 401 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: Hopkins total pay has been estimated at one thousand pounds, 402 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: when the average person at the time was making pennies 403 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: per day. Hopkins and Stern were criticized for what they 404 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,479 Speaker 1: were doing almost from the very beginning when they started 405 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: doing it, possibly even criticized from Parliament. One of hopkins 406 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 1: biggest individual critics was Puritan rector John Gall, who was 407 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: something of a skeptic when it came to witchcraft. Gall 408 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: directly challenged what Hopkins was doing, and in sixteen forty 409 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: six he published quote Select Cases of Conscience Touching Witches 410 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: and Witchcrafts, which begins with a letter from Hopkins saying 411 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: that he was going to go into Great Stockton to 412 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 1: look for witches. Gall believed that which has existed, and 413 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 1: in his opinion, total disbelief in which is was a 414 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 1: first step on a path of disbelieving in God. But 415 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: at the same time he thought what was real be 416 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: at work in England in six with superstition. He thought 417 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: that people were using witchcraft and demons to find something 418 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: to blame for the ordinary problems of life. After noting 419 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 1: his belief that which is did exist, he wrote quote, 420 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: but there are also a sect or sort that, on 421 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: the other hand, are as superstitious in this point, as 422 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: these can be infidelious, They conclude preremptorial lee, not from 423 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: reason but in discretion, that which is not only are, 424 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: but are in every place and parish with them. Every 425 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: old woman with a wrinkled face, of furrowed brow, a 426 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: hairy lip, a gobber tooth, a squint eye, a squeaking voice, 427 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: or a scolding tongue, having a rugged coat on her back, 428 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: a skull cap on her head, a spindle in her hand, 429 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: and a dog or cat by her side, is not 430 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: only suspect, but pronounced for a witch. Every new disease, 431 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: notable accident, mirrable of nature, rarity of art, nay and 432 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: strange work, or just judgment of God, is by them 433 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: accounted for no other but an act or effect of witchcraft. 434 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: Gall also noted that this whole profession of witch finder 435 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: seemed to be a new invention. Before this work had 436 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: fallen to people like magistrates and justices of the peace, 437 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: but now it was being handled by people like Matthew Hopkins, 438 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: who was calling himself the witch finder General. And Gall 439 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: placed the blame for the witch panic where it belonged 440 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: on Hopkins and Stern, who were going from town to 441 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: town stirring people up. In Gaul's words quote it is 442 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: strange to tell what superstitious opinions, affections relations are generally 443 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 1: risen amongst us since the witch Finders came into the 444 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: country and May of sixteen forty seven, Matthew Hopkins published 445 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: his own pamphlet in response to these and other criticisms. 446 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: It was called Quote the Discovery of Witches, An Answer 447 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: to Several Queries, lately delivered to the Judges of the 448 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: Assize for the County of Norfolk, and now published by 449 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: Matthew Hopkins, Witch Finder, for the benefit of the whole Kingdom. 450 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 1: Hopkins framed his defense as a series of answers to 451 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: fourteen queries he had purportedly been asked, although some of 452 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: the queries are really statements rather than questions. The first 453 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: is that he must be a witch, sorcerer and wizard himself, 454 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: otherwise he could not have done what he was doing. 455 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: The second is that, if he wasn't a witch himself, 456 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 1: that he had met with the devil and stolen a 457 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: book containing the names of all the witches in England, 458 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: so he was doing this work with the help of 459 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: the Devil. He responds to the first of these statements 460 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: with quote, if Satan's Kingdom be divided against itself? How 461 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: shall it stand? That's his whole answer. He responds to 462 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: the second by basically saying that if he did steal 463 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: the Devil's book, wasn't that something that he should be 464 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: commended for rather than judged. It's also in the earlier 465 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: queries that Hopkins says his knowledge of witchcraft came from 466 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: his own experience, which he describes as quote yet the 467 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: surest and safest way to judge by query five. In 468 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 1: this painphle it points out that a lot of people, 469 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: especially people who are poor or elderly, have marks on 470 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: their bodies naturally, along with quote other natural excrescencies as hemorrhads, piles, childbearing, etcetera. 471 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: So how is one man to judge that one of 472 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: these perfectly normal things is unnatural? Hopkins reply is quote 473 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: the parties so judging can justify their skill to any 474 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: and show good reasons why such marks are not merely natural, 475 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 1: neither that they can happen by any such natural cause, 476 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: as is before expressed, And for further answer for their 477 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: private judgments alone, it is most false and n true. 478 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: For never was any man tried by search of his body, 479 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: but commonly a dozen of the ablest men in the 480 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: parish or elsewhere were present, and most commonly as many 481 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: ancient skillful matrons and midwives present when the women are tried, 482 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: which marks not only he and his company attests to 483 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: be very suspicious, but all beholders, the skillfullest of them, 484 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: do not approve of them, but likewise assent that such 485 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,719 Speaker 1: tokens cannot, in their judgments, proceed from any the above 486 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: mentioned causes. In the next query, Hopkins goes on to 487 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: explain that you can tell these marks aren't natural because 488 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: they're in unusual places. They're also insensible to pain, and 489 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: they change shape, for example, because they're sending their imps 490 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: to feed from someone else to avoid detection, or because 491 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: their imps have been able to feed from anyone for 492 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: a period of time. This pamphlet goes on to explain, 493 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: in hopkins opinion, various aspects of witchcraft and to defend 494 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: his own actions, simultaneously explaining the necessity of practices like 495 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: waking and swimming witches and saying that he utterly denies 496 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: any confession that results from torture, and the last query 497 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: quote all that the witch finder doth is to fleece 498 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: the country of their money, and therefore rides and goes 499 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: to towns to have employment, and promises the fair promises, 500 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: and it maybe doth nothing for it, and possesseth many 501 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: men that they have so many wizards and so many 502 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: witches in their town, and so heartens them on to 503 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: entertain him. His answer quote, you do him a great 504 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: deal of wrong. And every of these particulars. For first one, 505 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: he never went into any town or place, but they 506 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: rode rit or sent often for him, and were for aught. 507 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: He knew glad of him too. He is a man 508 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: that doth distclaim that ever he detected a witch, or 509 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: said thou art a witch, only after her trial by 510 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: search and their own confessions, as he as others may judge. Three, lastly, 511 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: judge how he fleeceth the country and enriches himself by 512 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: considering the vast sum he takes of every town he 513 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: demands but twenty shillings a town, and doth sometimes ride 514 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: twenty miles for that, and hath no more for all 515 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: his charges thither and back again. And it maybe he 516 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: stays a week there and find there are three or 517 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: four witches, or if it be but one, cheap enough. 518 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: And this is the great sum he takes to maintain 519 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: his company with three horses. Hopkins partner John Stern published 520 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: his own defense of their work, called A Confirmation and 521 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: Discovery of Witchcraft, and like Hopkins, Stern pushed back on 522 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: criticisms that quote, there are no witches, but that there 523 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: are many poor, silly, ignorant people hanged wrongfully, and that 524 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: those who have gone or been instruments in finding out 525 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: or discovering those of late made known have done it 526 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: for their own private ends, for gain and such like, 527 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: favoring some where they thought good, and unjustly prosecuting others. 528 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,959 Speaker 1: Unlike Hopkins, who made only one direct reference to King 529 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: James's demonology, Stern's work sites a lot more references, especially 530 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: Bible verses. There are so many book, chapter and verse citations, 531 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,479 Speaker 1: especially in the first portion of this, that it is 532 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: difficult to read. It's like every third word is a 533 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: book of the Bible, and some chapters in verse. By 534 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: the time Stern published his book in sixteen forty eight, 535 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: the East Anglia witch trials were essentially over. As English 536 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: Civil War drew to a close, the courts got back 537 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: to a more normal operation, and the number of witchcraft 538 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: accusations dropped. People were also less inclined to trust Hopkins 539 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: and Stern in the face of such vocal criticism about 540 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: their methods. Hopkins was also dead. He published his defense 541 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: of his work roughly three months before he died. He 542 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: was probably in his mid to late twenties, and his 543 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: pursuit of witches and east Anglia had lasted for less 544 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: than three years. Although there is a popular story that 545 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: Hopkins was eventually convicted of witchcraft himself, he actually died 546 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: of tuberculosis, which was probably affecting his health for most 547 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: or all of the witch trials that he was part of. 548 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: He was buried at miss Ley with Manningtree on August twelve, 549 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: sixty seven, and today he is said to haunt miss 550 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: Ley Pond and other sites around the area. He's also 551 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: the focus of the nineteen sixty eight film Which Finder, 552 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: which is directed by Michael Reeves and stars previous podcast 553 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: subject Vincent Price and best Actor of all Time. I 554 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: never speak in superlatives, but I sure do love Vincent Price, 555 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: and he has a rad little bob in that movie. Yeah, 556 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: Holly and I had a conversation before, uh, before this 557 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: whole outline was even done. Really about how I'm so 558 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: used to seeing Vincent Price clean shaven or with a 559 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: beard that seems to denote I am evil, like a 560 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: little very pointy beard that h for when I watched 561 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: the trailer um to this film, which finder at first 562 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: I did not recognize him, Like his face is there 563 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: in the thumbnail and I'm like, oh, I wonder what 564 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: character he played. Oh, it's that one. As soon as 565 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: he started talking, I of course immediately knew who it was. Um, 566 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: this whole story we talked earlier about, like this incongruity 567 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: between how tragic and terrible it is and how bizarre 568 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: and fantastic all the testimony from the trial is. But 569 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: the thing that I just find the most terrifying about 570 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: it is that basically this guy kind of showed up 571 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: out of nowhere at age twenty something, and not single handedly. 572 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: There was other stuff going on, but he definitely was 573 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,800 Speaker 1: the instigator in in these trials all across East Anglia 574 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: Um that went on for roughly three years, and then 575 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: he died at with not really any experience that anybody 576 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: knows of besides his own opinion about who was a witch. Yeah, 577 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: it's interesting because it's it's uh one of those things 578 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: where I mean, I certainly joked in this episode about 579 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 1: all the great names for pets, but like when you 580 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: think about one person on this weird quest to do 581 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: this thing, and how many lives he completely obliterated in 582 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: of course of it, it becomes very sobering and dismaying. Well, 583 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: and we've also we've for sure talked about figures on 584 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: the Pie cast before who single handedly, uh had just 585 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: terrible consequences and a lot of a lot of time. 586 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,240 Speaker 1: That was a person who was already in a position 587 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,439 Speaker 1: of power, um not not you know, the relatively well 588 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,400 Speaker 1: off son of a vicar who didn't seem to have 589 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: any other notable background to to put him in that 590 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: level of authority besides his own authority that he decided 591 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: to keep up for himself. Anyway, do you have a 592 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: little bit of listener mail that's maybe less damaging to 593 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: people's lives? Sure is? That'd be great. This is from Brian. 594 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: Brian says, Hi, Holly and Tracy. I loved listening to 595 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: your podcast at work. You two are both so funny 596 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: and informative, and you were the reason I've started to 597 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: use the word delightful more in my life. I learned 598 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: so much from the two of you, and so I'm 599 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: super excited to share some of my own knowledge. I 600 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 1: was doing some research on the development of liturgical colors 601 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: in the Catholic Church. During different times of the year, 602 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: the priest's vestments are different colors. Very early on lent 603 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: An Advent used black because it was a penitential time. 604 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: They made the black by dyeing the clothes either with 605 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: blue or purple. Dye over and over, the black would 606 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: fade back to blue or purple, and most churches couldn't 607 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: bother to redie them. Eventually, people just sort of accepted 608 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: that the right color at these times the year was 609 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: purple or blue. Blue instead of purple was used in 610 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 1: Salisbury in particular. The Latin word for Salisbury is sarum, 611 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: so when you see blue used it Advent instead of 612 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 1: purple today it is called saram usage. Brian goes on 613 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: to say, if you're curious about more religious history stuff, uh. 614 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: Brian co hosts a podcast called Sunday School for Heathens, 615 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: which is currently on um on hiatus for some personal 616 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: reasons that I'm not going to get into because privacy, 617 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: but that sounds pretty cool. It involves Brian explaining some 618 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: of the weirder parts of Christianity to a non religious 619 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: co host, UM, and I would like to say I 620 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: love the name Sunday School for Heathens. So thank you 621 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: so much Brian for writing this to us. UM. While 622 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: I was working on the podcast The Mysteries of the 623 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: Color Blue, which we did for our live show, and 624 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: that's the episode that this is in reference to, for 625 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: a while I was down a rabbit hole of of 626 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,799 Speaker 1: all the different UM colors used UH in religious services 627 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 1: in Europe and in clothing for religious people. And one 628 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: of the things that UH that was temporarily in the 629 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: outline and then came out was definitely about UM how 630 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: often religious figures were supposed to be wearing black, but 631 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: it was really hard to get a really true color 632 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,280 Speaker 1: fast black dye, so a lot of times the black 633 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: really looked more like a faded bluish purple ish color. UH. 634 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: That whole evolution was a thing that had at one 635 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: point been in the outline, and then I was like, 636 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: this is too long, and it's kind of a digression. 637 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: So I'm very glad that we had a chance to 638 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: talk about it here. Thank you so much, Brian. For 639 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,399 Speaker 1: writing if you would like to write to us where 640 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: a history podcasts at how stuff works dot com. We're 641 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: also all over social media at missed in History. That's 642 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: where you'll find our Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, and Instagram. You 643 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,320 Speaker 1: can come to our website, which is missed in History 644 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: dot com and find an archive of all of our 645 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: episodes and share notes for the episodes Holly and I 646 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: have done together. And you can subscribe to our show 647 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,280 Speaker 1: on Apple podcast, the I heart radio app, and anywhere 648 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:27,399 Speaker 1: else you get your podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History 649 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: Class is a production of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. 650 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: For more podcasts, for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart 651 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 652 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: favorite shows.