WEBVTT - Roderick Cox on Black Excellence and Breaking Barriers 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:16.360 Welcome to PM Mood then No Talking Points, No Bullshit 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:20.200 podcast that takes you behind the curtain, off the red carpet, 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:23.079 and to the front lines of progress with change makers 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:26.520 and innovators that are doing the work to shift our 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:33.280 culture and expand their social impact. I am so excited 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:37.599 to welcome to PM Mood. Roderick Cox, who is one 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:41.480 of the only African American conductors in the world who 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:46.000 made you made your debut conducting the New York Philharmonic 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.919 in March. There's a story to that. So now, so 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:52.440 now because I want to because I want to jump 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:54.880 right in, because I've been excited to talk to you, 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:57.680 and we're, you know, in the age of the coronavirus, 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.440 in a global pandemic. We can't escape it. So it 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:03.320 becomes a part of every conversation that we've been having 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:05.959 on PM Mood. So tell us what happened. It was 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:09.880 the week of I think it was around it was 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:13.000 March eleventh or something of the sort, and I had 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:16.920 just come back from conducting in Mannheim, Germany, and some 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:21.160 of the restrictions for coming into place there because Monday night, 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:25.320 the first performance we had, the performance was delayed because 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:29.040 the government just sent out orders that no more than 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:32.760 a thousand people can be in the audience, like just 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:36.280 like that, And so we're having to count people and 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.760 let people in specifically and turn people away. But still 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:43.520 so Europe or starting to take aggressive measures before the 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:46.880 United States. And the next week was my New York 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:51.760 Philharmonic debut. It's obviously it's like on the pinnacle moments 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:55.280 of a young conductor's career is to stand in the 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.880 America's oldest orchestra and one of the biggest chers to 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:00.840 lead it for the first time. And we have been 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:04.320 working on this project or it seemed like over a year, 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:07.400 and I was set to leave for New York on 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:12.720 that Saturday. I remember going to bed, arriving back from 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:17.320 Monheim in Berlin on Wednesday, and going to bed, waking 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:21.480 up on Thursday morning just from seeing a bunch of 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.679 texts from friends. Have you heard the US travel band? 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:28.560 The President said? This was before I knew everything about 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:33.480 can Americans get in can American style? And I gotta 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.440 also saw a message from the New York Philharmonic. They 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.280 were obviously sleep asleep by the time I read it, 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:43.040 but said, can you get on a plane tomorrow? And 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.520 I was trying to figure out does that tomorrow mean 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.600 my today right now, or does that mean Friday. So 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:54.120 I'm scrambling with my management in London, all of us 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.760 trying to figure out what do they mean? And we 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:00.120 realized they meant, let's try to get you out of 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:05.119 Europe today. So I immediately packed my bags and scrambled 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.919 and went to the airport. I was on the next 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:15.040 flight from Berlin to New York and midair, midair, I 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:20.799 got the news that the Metropolitan Opera canceled, and then 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:25.400 next Carnegie Hall cancels, and those huge pillars in New 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.360 York cultural scenes if they're canceling. There was only a 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.679 little a matter of time before the New York Filmonic cancels, 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:36.880 and so like an hour later Near Harmonic cancels all events. 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:43.080 And so I'm about five hours from JFK. Berlin's on 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.640 the is in the backdrop and New York this way. 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.120 And so I arrived in New York. I had the 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.960 option for staying a little bit longer, but I decided 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:55.240 to stay two days. Yeah, because I realized it just 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:58.520 felt like the US felt like this ticking time mom 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.920 in the sense of during the nation's biggest city. There 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:08.080 is no testing available, people are still going throughout their lives. 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.680 And I was coming from Europe and seeing how serious 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:14.760 this is and how serious it's going to get. I 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:19.880 said to myself, I didn't feel comfortable stay, not just 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:22.280 in New York, but in the US in the sense 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.880 of it just felt with the lack of information coming 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.360 from all different parts, that it was going to get worse. 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.360 And so I just left two days later and went 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.920 back to Europe, and actually I had very little problems traveling. 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:41.000 Then I noticed on the news lines very very long 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:44.880 from Americans trying to get back into America and people 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.680 shuffling around, and so I was actually thankful that I 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:52.840 made a pretty decisive decision to just get back home 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.800 while I could, because then, as you know, a week later, 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.280 countries started shedding down their course. So I didn't want 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:07.680 to be stuck anywhere but home. So I'm that is 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:12.320 just so sad, you know, I can't imagine. It was 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.640 kind of in the same news as they were announcing 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:20.240 finally the shutdown of the Olympics, and thinking about the 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:25.240 amount of training, the amount of preparation that you've put 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:30.080 into this historic moment for it not to then transpire. 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:34.640 You know, what I think is really uplifting. What I 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:38.280 find really uplifting in this moment is how music has 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:44.840 been playing such an incredible role in connecting people and 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:48.600 to giving them some type of hopefulness. Can you talk 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:52.240 about that in the way that you know, musicians and 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:56.400 artists in the midst of this pandemic leaning on their 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.599 craft as a way to help, you know, usher people 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.240 towards some type of light. Lots of music has this 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:07.719 very hum and element of renewal and struggle and coming 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:11.359 from something dark to something bright and light, and that 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:17.120 has been a consistent theme from really the Romantic period, 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.560 this sense of rebounding or fighting for something greater. And 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:24.560 so it's wonderful that music can play those roles in 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:28.080 our everyday lives and in our culture. It is that 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.800 ultimate release for us, and that's why it's so important 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.040 for it to be in our lives and our culture. 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:40.160 And I hope that at this time our government and 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:44.240 the people realize how important it is to maintain the 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:48.000 artistic and cultural fabric of our society because they can 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:51.440 go away just like this, and they have gone away, 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:56.400 and I worry for many organizations, arts organizations that might 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.640 not be able to really survive this, and musicians have 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:04.359 been laid off all around the Orchestras can't or opera 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:07.880 houses can't afford to pay their musicians, but the music 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.720 still lives within us. It's been very interesting as an 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.240 artist being on the other side, as a person who's 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:17.160 giving the music not being involved with it, because you 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.760 feel like something is sort of ripped from you. You're 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.280 trying to figure out when's the next time you'll be 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:26.560 able to express yourself and express your art and share 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.960 it with others. Just some of those sensations of the 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:33.480 electricity of having a live audience there to be a 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.000 part of a performance with you, and really putting together 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.920 a performance with your colleagues, it's just an absolute joy. 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.680 And so it's been tough, but it's also been a 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.120 time of reflection to think about music's role in my 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:50.240 life and how I can approve upon it, and it 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:52.920 makes me even more excited to get back to it 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:56.840 one day and to really also realize that it's a 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:02.320 true blessing. But yes, even though with their Philharmonic did 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:07.360 not go forward, I'm also just grateful for my safety 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.080 and health and I know that I still live in 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:13.480 this privilege in my life that you know, I get 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:15.920 to wake up in the morning and study music and 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.280 present that to people. And there are people who are 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:22.280 actually who've lost everything in this and their jobs and 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:26.520 worrying about how they can feed their families and make 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:30.440 ins meet. And I try to remind myself and especially 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:35.080 others who are own social media, really just complaining, complaining 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:38.640 about being in quarantine during this time, and that there 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:42.600 are you know, you're you're in quarantine, and you're able 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:46.280 to be in quarantine in an apartment three bedroom apartment, 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.200 I mean three yeah, And there are certain people in 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:53.160 societies that two families live in one room. And so 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:56.920 it's also a great privilege and blessing. I often in 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:00.200 my work and the different iterations of shows that I do, 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:04.360 some that are focused specifically around politics and progressive politics, 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:08.480 and then this one really being about social influence and 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.480 social impact. But you can't escape privilege. You really can't. 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:16.120 And I think that you know, for me, I think 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:21.400 that the purpose of recognizing our own privileges in this 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:26.559 particular moment is also about having gratitude, right you recognize 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.320 that you have this privilege for us to be you know, 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.360 engaged with one another from the safety and the comfort 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.400 of our homes. While there are people that don't have 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:38.839 a home, right, while there are people who don't have 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.640 the ability to work from home and they must go 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.320 out and make a living in the midst of all 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.520 of this, And just understanding that there is gratitude to 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:50.920 have in the midst of tragedy, right, and understand your 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.280 good fate and fortune. You know, I want to talk 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:58.200 a bit because you are originally from Georgia, yes, right, 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:02.319 And you know I would assume, and maybe I'm wrong, 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:05.280 but I would have assumed. I would assume that growing 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:10.600 up you didn't have many other black conductors to look 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:15.080 at for influence or as a guide and as a 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:20.880 pathway in your career. How did you get here? How 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.800 did you move from the church and the choir in 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:27.840 Georgia to the world stage as one of the only 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:33.440 African American conductors. So wonderful question. I mean, I still 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.880 feel like it presents a problem today because it it's 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:41.600 always feels like I'm going into unchartered territory. Even if 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:47.000 you have studied music and you've sort of accumulated a 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:49.920 certain amount of accolades, it still feels like you're going 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:56.800 into that rather exclusive room and navigating through that is 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:59.800 something I think about today, what is possible. There was 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:03.360 only one black conductor I met when I was younger. 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.280 In his name was James to Priests, and he I 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.199 was studying conducting in graduate school, and he saw one 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:13.280 of my videos and invited me to New York before 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.080 he died to just give me some helpful advice, and 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.960 that was so very important for me. I think what 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:25.199 has helped me is to seek inspiration from other examples 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:30.800 of black excellence. Also outside of music. I seek inspiration 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:37.040 from watching Serena Williams play tennis, which you know, if 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:39.040 she can do it, then I can do it. In 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.400 terms of breaking down these barriers, I seek inspiration from 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:47.120 Barack Obama's presidency and all the curveballs he was thrown 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:51.120 and still to triumph, and from Misty Copeland as a 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.439 as a dancer. And so I like to feel that 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:57.079 we as a community, even though it may sometimes feel 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.920 like you're going into uncharted territory or into a room 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:04.679 that you're alone, that you're never really alone. You have 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:09.480 a community of people who've done many excellent, great things 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:13.480 and have been the first that you can seek inspiration from, 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.440 and so I try to be my ankle of that. 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:20.280 Even though I am in a profession where there are 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.319 very few of us, and I think a number of 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.720 us around the world, we know each other or know 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.520 of each other, and we could probably call I probably 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:33.079 can't count us all on both hands. It would be 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.880 tough to put together three in terms of counting us 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.800 out there. But yeah, I try to support my colleagues 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.559 where they are and hope and feel like we're all 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:46.240 in it together. We know that it's not lack of talent, 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:51.360 it's not lack of grit that keeps African Americans out 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:56.440 of many exclusive industries, right, it's none of those things. 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.640 How do you use I know that you have an 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:06.320 initiative where you provide scholarships to underrepresented groups, right to 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:12.240 inspire young people to connect with musician try classical musician tury. 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.600 How do you inspire them to connect with something where, 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:20.360 even still now, there are very few reflections of themselves. 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:25.240 I think, most importantly what you can control and what 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:29.239 you can't control. You can't control some of these mindsets 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.720 of other people, or you can't control other people icicles. 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.560 But what a musician can do. It's hopefully control, like 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:42.160 you said, that talent and just nurturing it and growing 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:46.560 it and stretching your imagination and putting your energy there 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:52.160 and putting very much positive energy into that and hopefully 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:54.920 not saying that if you have the talent you will 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.440 make it, but hopefully if you put that energy there 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:01.839 and become the ultimate professional of your craft, then you 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:05.720 can hopefully make it and the doors will open onto you. 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.440 This is a profession. You can't, I suppose, yell your 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:14.040 way into it, and with your frustration, you can't make 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.520 people open doors for you. And I've seen this happen. 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.760 And if you focus on that negative energy, it can 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.640 really I think, hold you back and cripple you and 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:28.240 push down that talent because I think then people aren't 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.360 focusing so much on your talent, They're focusing on the 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.920 negative energy you're putting out. It's very interesting. The great 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:40.160 soprano Lanten Price, who was one of the most famous 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.800 black sopranos that ever lived. I mean she's still living. 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.040 I think she's in her nineties there wow in New York. 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.320 But she commanded the stages of the Metropo and Opera 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:54.360 Moscala in Berlin, all of the world, and was born 0:14:54.400 --> 0:15:01.040 in the twenties and was born in Jackson, Mississippi. And 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:05.680 for her every interview you listen to her on YouTube, 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:11.600 she speaks so proudly of her country and so proudly 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:17.400 of her being an American and the opportunities of being 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:22.120 an American her country afforded her. And I'm thinking, like, 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:24.960 you had to go to Europe, you had to conquer Italy, 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.800 you had to conquer Germany, you had to conquer all 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:32.480 these great opera houses before the United States Metropolitan Opera 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.440 gives you a chance to sing there. Why aren't you 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:39.480 screaming about that? Why doesn't that frustrate you that you 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:42.320 had to do that in order to have those opportunities 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.040 in America? And it just baffles me that she's able 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:51.760 to keep this amazing positive focus and appreciation on being 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.640 an American and what that meant for her. And I said, 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:58.880 isn't that a wonderful constructive use of your time and energy? 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.200 And so as a musician, especially a musician of color, 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:05.920 we have to stay focused on the work. Serena Williams 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:09.080 has to stay focused on the tennis and Barack Obama 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:12.240 has to stay focused on governing. And that's what I think. 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.040 I try to tell the young people if I can 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:18.400 help them with in my initiative, if I can help 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.840 them get some of the tools that may keep them back, 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:27.000 such as a new instrument or instruction from a great teacher, whatnot, 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:30.280 that helps the talent move forward. And with the talent 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:34.560 moving forward, hopefully people don't have anything else to say. 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:37.840 But as you know, we have to be I hate 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:41.080 to see it, but almost twice as good. I was 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:47.040 gonna say ten times, but okay, twice as good. We'll 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:49.080 be it. I was gonna say ten times as good 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:52.480 as many of the people that you have been naming 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:58.600 are right, they are the extraordinary pillars of their industries. 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.320 You know. One of the artists whose quote I often 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.320 go back to and I ask other artists in a 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:09.800 variety of spaces how they feel about it, is Nina Simone. 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:16.200 And Nina Simone, when you reflecting on an artist's duty, 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:20.200 said this, you can't help it. And artist's duty, as 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:24.800 far as I'm concerned, is to reflect the times. What 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:28.760 do you think about that? About that statement in the 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:33.280 times that we are living in right now, where you're 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.760 speaking about the soprano singer who is born in the 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:41.400 nineteen twenties, the times that she was born in. In 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.960 many ways we can see the journey of how far 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:49.960 our politics, our culture has come. But in the same respect, 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.000 I'm speaking with you and we're still using in the 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:57.480 twenty first century phrases like one of the first, right, 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:02.639 one of the only, and so. On one hand, you 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:05.720 don't want to live a life that is steeped in 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:12.240 anger and pain, justifiably so right to the barriers, purposeful 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.919 barriers and obstacles that have been placed in African Americans 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.760 and black people in the diaspora in their way. But 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:24.399 at the other time, you also want to reflect the 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:28.719 path and the trajectory. How do you manage to do both? 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.080 Is it possible? Does it change with any given day 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:36.160 for you? Well, I think one thing that's really fortunate 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:40.159 about Nina Simone Versusly and Team prices that she was 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:45.399 a singer songwriter, so her artistry was coming very much 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:50.560 from her own musical voice in terms of her language, 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:54.080 her words of sharing and shedding light on that moment 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:57.080 and shedding light on what was happening in classical music. 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:02.200 A lot of the times we are as artists mainly vessels, 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:07.480 vessels for which the composer can shine through. So if 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:13.959 you are conducting Tchaikovsky symphony or very opera, your job 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.800 is to be this vessel, to bring for that composer's 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.480 vision for its music, for the music, and sometimes if 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:25.399 we let our personal visions or animal state get in 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:27.879 the way of that, it's very hard to push that 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.840 message forward. So it is quite the conundrum, a very 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.240 good question. But I do believe certain artists in certain 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:40.760 other genres are better at shedding light on that. I mean, 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:44.639 in terms of how hip hop was formed and what 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.280 it grew into before it sort of became what it 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.720 is today, was to kind of shed light on the 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:54.280 political and social moments of the time. So I think 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:58.680 giving those two figures Leotine and Nina Simone, I think 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:02.320 their goals and the visions at that time were different. 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.720 But I always say, you can lead. It's great to 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:08.840 lead by example. And I know that they're just so 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:13.359 very few African American conductors in the world on the 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.439 major stage, and there have been people who've tried to 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.720 go there, and somehow we all there's this plateau ing. 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.960 I think, well, I know in the top twenty orchestras 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.920 in America. There are no African American conductors and as 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:31.359 music directors, and still in today, they've never been an 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:37.119 African American music director of a major orchestra in our country. 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:41.639 That's frustrating, and it's something I think about imponderon, and 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:46.680 obviously I understand that it's a goal I have. One 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:50.359 of the sad things is that in American society, our 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:54.800 classical music industry tends to very much look to your 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:59.760 morsel and in the next couple of years, I think, 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:04.480 and Maren also steps down from the Baltimore Symphony. She's 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:08.600 a female American conductor and was the first female conductor 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.560 in the I think around two thousand and nine or 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:15.400 so to be in charge of a major orchestra in America. 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:19.879 So still COSCO Music is this very it seems like 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:26.680 an even much more exclusive club than the government. Yes, yes, 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:29.959 there are these pillars that you just have to really 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:34.040 work at chopping them down, and so I just feel 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:38.959 that I just have to stay focused on developing and 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:43.280 nourishing my talent as an artist and continuing to do 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:47.280 the work and not have too many distractions and hope 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.480 that it will will work out and hopefully I'll be 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:54.399 good enough and to take the small successes like a 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.640 debut of the New York Kilharmonic as a great achievement 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:01.880 as a kid growing up in in Georgia and thinking 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:07.280 or imagining these things to the point of you're stepping 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.040 on stage with one of those orchestras you've dreamed about. 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:14.439 Is I think perhaps what Lantine was talking about in 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:17.639 a way that our country is unfair in many ways, 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:20.159 and there's a system that's been built over a hundred 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:24.399 years for the systematic failure of a people, but also 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:29.040 in this country, it is a country in which you 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:33.040 can come from here and go there, and even in 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:35.640 some of the most even in some of the other 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:39.400 industrialized nations that are great and have many things going 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:43.280 for them beyond ours, that type of achievement is not 0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:46.240 necessarily in the minds of his people. That you can 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:50.159 be born outside of a certain class or outside of 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:54.399 a certain group and still go to such heights. I 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:58.080 love that, and I think that's a beautiful sentiment and 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:02.800 also beautiful advice piece of advice to give to young 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:05.399 people and just people in general. I think that the 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:09.920 harboring of anger, while for me it can fuel your 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:13.360 work in some ways, but for others it can very 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:16.880 much stunt you. And I think that looking at who 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:20.960 has come before you and how far they have been 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:25.239 able to grow and to develop in spite of so 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:28.600 many things, should be used as inspiration. I'm frankly in 0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:31.800 ammunition in a lot of ways. I think it's about 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:37.240 also channeling that energy, like in James Ballwin's The Fire 0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:42.640 Next Time. Yeah, at the beginning, it just heally hit 0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:46.320 me when he was talking. He said, there's no reason 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:48.919 for you to try to become like white people, and 0:23:48.960 --> 0:23:53.280 there is no basis whatever for their impertinent assumption that 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:56.359 they must accept you. The really terrible thing, old buddy, 0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:59.240 is that you must accept them, and I mean that 0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:02.640 very serious. So you must accept them and accept them 0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:06.240 with love. For these innocent people have no other hope. 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:08.800 They are in effect still trapped in a history which 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:11.720 they do not understand, and until they understand it, they 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:14.640 cannot be released from it. And so in the sense 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:18.560 that it is a society that's built by them, with 0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:23.480 these systems and mechanisms in place, you cannot be burdened 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:29.320 by a certain anger. You have to accept them and 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:33.400 work with them. And work on yourself so that you 0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:38.679 can break through those boundaries and not become complacent or 0:24:38.800 --> 0:24:41.600 suffer in the system that was built for you to 0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:46.520 fall down into. And sometimes even them, I hate using them, 0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:49.880 but them, in their privilege, don't realize that that system 0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:53.560 was constructed the way it was, and so I think 0:24:53.640 --> 0:24:57.080 it was even with the Surgeon General said something to 0:24:58.200 --> 0:25:03.280 black people about this that we all know that there's 0:25:03.320 --> 0:25:08.600 some truth to that, but it's also for me upsetting 0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:13.280 because you're not telling the whole story. Now you're feeding 0:25:13.280 --> 0:25:17.800 into You're feeding into a pathology that has been created 0:25:18.520 --> 0:25:23.719 about black people in order to justify paternalistic policies that 0:25:23.760 --> 0:25:26.360 would have us say that we cannot be left to 0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:31.280 our own devices. And his presumption, the Surgeon General and 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:34.520 his statement was like, well, stop drinking and stop doing 0:25:34.560 --> 0:25:38.080 these bad things, because you're doing these things is causing 0:25:38.119 --> 0:25:41.440 your illness as opposed to a system that was purposely 0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:44.840 created to do you harm. Even being where I am 0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:48.080 right now in the middle of Berlin and a pretty 0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:51.960 nice neighborhood, if I went back home to parts of 0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:56.639 where my family lives in Georgia in making and I 0:25:56.680 --> 0:26:03.199 want to go get a wonderful kill salad. You go 0:26:03.359 --> 0:26:08.000 get it, go to a nice juice shop and get 0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:11.960 a nice fresh juice. I mean, you know, you put 0:26:12.040 --> 0:26:14.720 together their system where you put these people in these 0:26:14.800 --> 0:26:20.600 neighborhoods from decades and decades of discrimination, housing discrimination. Then 0:26:20.640 --> 0:26:24.120 you pack those neighborhoods with with those liquor stores. Yep, 0:26:24.840 --> 0:26:28.160 put them in food desert that there are no grocery stores, 0:26:28.160 --> 0:26:30.600 there is no place to get fresh produced from. And 0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:34.200