1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to River Cafe Table four, a production of iHeartRadio 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: and Adami's Studios. 3 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 2: Today, my guest is Alfonso Quiron, the Academy Award winning director, 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 2: writer and producer. Amongst his many masterpieces are Gravity, Roma. 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 3: And Harry Potter. 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 2: He is a man who combines beauty in film with 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: a passion for telling stories. Alfonso is from Mexico, and 8 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 2: ever since the architect Ricardo Legeretta brought us there in 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one, our family has returned every year to 10 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: this stunning country and the people who live there. Alfonso 11 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 2: and I share the feeling that our children are the 12 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 2: center of our lives, that food is a focus of 13 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 2: our days, and Italy is a second home for us both. 14 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 2: I admired Alfonso through his movies long before I knew him, 15 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 2: and more and more ever since. Today, as we sit 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: in the garden of the River Cafe and talk together, 17 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 2: you will understand. 18 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 3: Why goodbye, says Rutie Alfonso. 19 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 2: When I cook a meal in the River Cafe. When 20 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 2: we are serving a meal, what you think about is 21 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 2: the action of the dish. But what really we're thinking 22 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 2: about is the preparation before. So we start very early 23 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 2: in the morning to prepare to think about process. And 24 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: I found very moving the interview that you did about 25 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 2: making a film, and you talked about that, you talked 26 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 2: about the lighting, you talked about the black and white photography, 27 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: you talked about the cinematography, you talked about process. So 28 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:57,639 Speaker 2: process in film, process in food, what do you feel about? 29 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 3: What is your thing about? The relationship? 30 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 4: Exactly the same proces. 31 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 5: But I think it's the same with any creative endeavor, 32 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 5: being this a technical endeavor or or an artistic endeavor. 33 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 5: I think that everything comes from the concept. You know, 34 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 5: first there's a concept, and that concept, interestingly, I think 35 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 5: comes out of memories, and those memories in the specific 36 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 5: case of I mean that's what food is so amazing, 37 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 5: because it combines the two biggest centers of memory, that 38 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 5: is taste and smell. 39 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 4: In film, you go through different things. 40 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: Tell me about film and. 41 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 5: In the specific case of roma, for instance, the process. 42 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 5: I try to focus the process in images, but also 43 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 5: in terms of smells and sounds and in terms of 44 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 5: Once that you start getting the concept also then you 45 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 5: you have to you have to to start landing that process. 46 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 5: How lan landing it is like how am I going 47 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 5: to make this happen that. I guess that in the 48 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 5: in the kitchen, in the when you're cooking is pretty 49 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 5: pretty similar. You have an idea of a recipe, you 50 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 5: have idea for a film, you write the screenplay, you 51 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 5: write the recipe, so everybody can have the same shared information, 52 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 5: because that's something that is so specifically. 53 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 4: It's so similar between between say cooking. 54 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 5: And and cinema that a lot of different processes are 55 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 5: involved and a lot of different people are involved in 56 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 5: the process. Another element that we have in common is 57 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 5: the presentation. Yeah, because one thing is just mixing the 58 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 5: ingredients and having the amazing dish, but how you're going 59 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 5: to present it? 60 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 2: And that's the last thing. That's that's what I do, 61 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: or that's what the hedgeh Off us. We stand there 62 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 2: and I will not send a plate out to your table. 63 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 2: I'm the last person, so the responsibilities. Man, I'm the 64 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: last person to see a plate before it goes And 65 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 2: I guess you're the last person to see your film 66 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: before it's in the cinema. 67 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 5: And then you not only that, but also you have 68 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 5: to do because in a film also is the presentation 69 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 5: goes together your film with which image you're going to 70 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 5: to use to convey the film, meaning the posters, the traders, 71 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 5: all of that stuff off. 72 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 2: Answer, tell me about the food of your childhood. Tell 73 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 2: me about growing up in Mexico. 74 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 5: I belong to a middle class family in Mexico City. 75 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 5: You know, Mexico, And you know how different is a 76 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 5: middle class in Mexico that the European middle class. So 77 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 5: the way, tell me, ah, a middle class family in 78 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 5: Mexico growing up in the sixties and the seventies, there 79 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 5: was still a mentality of making things last. I remember 80 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 5: the refrigerator in the kitchen was probably a refrigerator of 81 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 5: the fifties. You know that rattle a lot. By the way, 82 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 5: the kitchen was an old kitchen. I mean there was 83 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 5: one TV set for the whole home and an old one. 84 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 4: And with the food it was. 85 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 5: So what I'm saying that is that the dichotomy of 86 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 5: this is that in one hand, yes, it is that 87 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 5: it was less oppolentan what it would be like a 88 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 5: European or American families, a middle class families. But at 89 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 5: the same time, because of the horrible social structure of 90 00:05:55,560 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 5: Mexico and the disparity any middle class family league uh 91 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 5: has domestic workers. And many of those families, of these 92 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 5: middle class families, they have social domestic workers that live 93 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 5: in the premises in the in what it was called 94 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 5: the servants quarter. 95 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 4: Yeah. 96 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 5: And when you say servants quarter, you're you're thinking, okay, well, yes, 97 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 5: a huge house is not not necessarily everything was gen 98 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 5: cramped up. 99 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 4: And I have to say that the duty of. 100 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 5: The kitchen it fell in the in the hands of 101 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 5: these domestic workers. In my house, there was one person 102 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 5: that was born in charge of the kitchen. One another 103 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 5: person was in charge of all the other chores around 104 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 5: the house. When I my first memory was a very 105 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 5: old woman called Benita Uh. I guessed that she was 106 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 5: from Misteko origin south of that southern Mexico. I mean Mistako. 107 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 5: They extend, they extend between what is Vera Cruz and 108 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 5: beneath that. 109 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 4: She was really old. The memory I have of her 110 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 4: was just a face filled with wrinkles. And Benita was 111 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 4: the was the cook, and she would just pretty much. 112 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 4: She was very independent about unless. 113 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 5: There was a special There were special occasions in which, 114 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 5: as you we were talking before, it was more about 115 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 5: my grandmother giving instruction. 116 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: She wouldn't bring the food of her region because Mexico 117 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: is so original. She cooked the food. If she'd come 118 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: from Ohaka, would she cook. 119 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 4: That, she would cook, she would cook, cook for Haka. 120 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 5: But being a middle class family in Mexico, there was 121 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 5: a lot of Mexican food, Yes, but there was this 122 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 5: kind of uh Spanish tradition, I would, I would think, 123 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 5: and a combination of this kind of Spanish and European 124 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 5: French tradition completely adapted, I guess you know, it was 125 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 5: very syncretic. And when I was a kid, also they 126 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 5: were starting to be greater influence from the US, the 127 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 5: whole thing of burgers and hogdogs. 128 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 2: I'm picturing your household, your family home, and so you 129 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: would come home from school, or your father would come 130 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 2: home from work, or your mother would come home, and 131 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: then you would also do you have a large family? 132 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: Did you have brothers? Yeah? 133 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 4: I had. 134 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 5: I have three siblings, one sister, two brothers, And the 135 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 5: household was pretty much the way they describing in the 136 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 5: film Roma. 137 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 4: The interesting thing is that it was a combination between 138 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 4: which ever. 139 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 5: Food Benita cooked by Because you knew how to cook, 140 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 5: she was great, but also my grandmother would come with 141 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 5: her big book of recipes that it was one of 142 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 5: those ancient books you know. Well, it was not a book, 143 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 5: it was a notebook. It was all written, handwritten, probably 144 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 5: from her family, her mom or whatever. It was a 145 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 5: very old kind of uh notebook, and she would go 146 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 5: through the pages and find like the recipe that was 147 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 5: going to be for that day. So that means that 148 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 5: those recipes will come from from way before. 149 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: It's interesting because yesterday I did a conversation with someone 150 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 2: rush To and so there's someone who grew up in 151 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 2: Bombay with a book like that in his kitchen from 152 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 2: his great grandmother. He said that almost every kitchen you 153 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 2: know had the great grandmother or the grandmother's recipes written 154 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 2: in hand, you know. 155 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 5: And yeah, well that would have been maybe my great 156 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 5: grandmother or the book, and who knows for how far 157 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 5: back it would come in. And it was yes, I 158 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 5: remember it was I never I was a kid that 159 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 5: was not that interested. But what I was amazing was 160 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 5: the handwriting because they handwriting look antique. Yeah, and there 161 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 5: was stel like in between pages like dry flowers and stuff. 162 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 3: Where is that book? I have no idea to find it. 163 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 2: The recipe that I'm going to read for our Fonso 164 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 2: that he chose is or ketti with tomato and ricotta. 165 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 2: Three hundred grams or katta, three hundred grams of cherry tomatoes, 166 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 2: very ripe, cut in half and squeezed, one garlic cove chopped, 167 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:52,839 Speaker 2: fifty grams of grated parmesan, one bunch of fresh basil, 168 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 2: a tablespoon of extra virgin olive oil, and two hundred 169 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 2: grams of ricotta. Combine the tomatoes, garlic, season add the 170 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 2: olive oil and toss to combine. Let marinate for fifteen 171 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 2: minutes or so. Put the ricotta in a bowl and 172 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 2: season with salt and black pepper. Cook the orchetti and 173 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 2: boiling salted water until al dente, and then drain gently. 174 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 2: Heat the tomato mixture and add the drained orchetti, stirring 175 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 2: gently to combine. Finally, stir in the ricotta and the 176 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 2: basil leaves and serve with parmesan. So, Alfonso, why did 177 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 2: you choose this recipe? 178 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 5: Sounds so simple, is so in many ways so basic, 179 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 5: and I think that that makes it so universal. 180 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 4: It is one of those in which it allows every 181 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 4: single flavor to come through. 182 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 2: You know. 183 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 4: It's with the tomatoes, particularly the tomatoes that you use. 184 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 5: You feel the soil. It's interesting because food is amazing 185 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 5: because you can like simplicity the same way that you 186 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 5: can enjoy a dish that takes like fifteen hours to make, 187 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 5: you know, and it's a completely different journey. It's a 188 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 5: completely different trip. The beauty of dishes like this is 189 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 5: how honest and immediately they feel. But by this because 190 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 5: of the same reason, nothing can go wrong. 191 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 2: I think that growing up in the United States, the 192 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 2: image of Mexican food that we had of Mexican food 193 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 2: is being so heavy and so many, so many different 194 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 2: dishes on a plate. You know that you would have 195 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 2: you go to a Mexican restaurant and then just be 196 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: very heavy. And then the experience that I had it 197 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 2: was really radical to go to Mexico and see there's 198 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 2: incredibly refined. You know, even if it was just rice 199 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 2: and beans, there was just or if it was a 200 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 2: fish with a bit of chili and chilantra, or if 201 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 2: it was tortilla with just herbs and some cheese, it 202 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 2: was so delicate. You know, it's robust. But the difference 203 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 2: between the interpretation of Mexican food internationally and the reality 204 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: of eating it in Mexico, for me as a cook was, well. 205 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's totally because you know, of course you have heavy, 206 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 5: heavy dishes, I mean, and you you have a lot 207 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 5: of that that is like fast food, the equivalent of 208 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 5: fast food, A lot of them that you find in. 209 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 4: Stands, like thousands of stands, and you know in the 210 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 4: street stands. 211 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 5: That is, they use a lot of corn and dough, 212 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 5: corn dough, tortilla massa tortilla and. 213 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 4: Different shapes, and a lot of that is fried. 214 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 5: And and if you think about it, the difference between 215 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 5: what would be a soapage, a lupa taco and say 216 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 5: what achieve if you ask what are the ingredients pretty 217 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 5: much exactly the same. The difference is how that corn 218 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 5: dough is prepared a little bit like pasta. Yeah, now 219 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 5: that one. Yes, it can be heavy if it's if 220 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 5: you limit Mexican food to that, but that's you know, 221 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 5: that is just it's like saying Italian food is pizza. 222 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 2: Whenever I go to a city, must is the first 223 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 2: thing I do is try and go to a market, 224 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 2: because in a way, the market tells you where you are, 225 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: tells you about the people there, It tells you about 226 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 2: the food that's there, the attitude towards the food, and 227 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 2: so Mexico for me was full of great markets. Were 228 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: you did you go to the markets? 229 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 5: Right, Well, that's you're you're hitting something that's very important there, 230 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 5: because yeah, I think that unfortunately all of that is 231 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 5: changing as well in Mexico because of the arrival of 232 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 5: the big supermarkets and the convenience of the big supermarket. 233 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 4: But what I grew up it was I love as 234 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 4: a kid going to to to the market. It was 235 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 4: an adventure. 236 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 5: I mean it was just going through the stalls and 237 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 5: you have all these kind of fruits and vegetables, but 238 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 5: also you will go to the mid section of the 239 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 5: fish section and they were like chopping all the stuff there. 240 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 4: Yeah. 241 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 5: And it was the mixture of of the sounds, the smells, 242 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,119 Speaker 5: but other things. The sounds, you know, you've been in 243 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 5: a market in Mexico, like most markets, of course, it's 244 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 5: just the cacophony of sounds between the people announcing their 245 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 5: their produce and the chopping of the of the butcher 246 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 5: to some music in the distance. 247 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 4: That's another thing growing up. It was the smells of 248 00:15:54,000 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 4: the bakery. Yeah, and also the most beautiful smell, the 249 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 4: smell of the tortillaia. 250 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 2: Tell me about that. 251 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 4: Oh, that's a to do. 252 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 5: As you know, to do the tortillas, you go through 253 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 5: a process called mixed mixed a meal. 254 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 4: That is how you grind the corn. And it's a machine. 255 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 5: It's a big machine that grinds the corn into this 256 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 5: doll and then the machine actually goes and creates a tortilla. 257 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 2: And so you don't have that rolling out process. 258 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 5: No, you don't have that rolling out And now it's 259 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 5: mechanical in most of the cases, there's a whole mechanical 260 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 5: sound that comes with it is very metallical and very 261 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 5: machine with a lot of squeaking. And the thing is 262 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 5: the combination of the sound and the smell that is fantastic. 263 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 5: Now I love that, but nothing beats a handmade tortilla. 264 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 4: There was you know, Lauosquivel and she wrote like water 265 00:16:59,120 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 4: for chocolate. 266 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 2: Oh, yes, of course. 267 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 5: Louda used to say that the big difference is that 268 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 5: when you were doing the tortilla by hand, you're actually 269 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 5: infusing the tortilla with energy. 270 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 4: Yeah. She was saying that. 271 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 2: When you left home and you were on your around, 272 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 2: did you first did you cook? Did you start cooking 273 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 2: for yourself or did you. 274 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 5: I tried to cook for myself, and I was, Yeah, 275 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 5: I was sort of successful, but I you know, I 276 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 5: was I was young, and I was completely busy trying 277 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 5: to make a living that my priority was elsewhere, and 278 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 5: wrongly so, because I think that they would help a 279 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 5: lot discovery the kitchen and cooking earlier, and that didn't 280 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 5: happen until later, and not because of me. It's because 281 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 5: as my son came to live with me, and it 282 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 5: was this whole thing of Okay, I'm not going to 283 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 5: be just going and doing I was living in New 284 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,479 Speaker 5: York at the time, says I'm not going to be 285 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 5: just doing takeaways, you know, for my son. 286 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 4: I have his home. 287 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 5: I need to cook for him, So yeah, I would. 288 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 5: Then I started spending a long time going through recipe books, 289 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 5: and I'm trying to figure out this combination of yes, 290 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 5: food that was more kind of international food, if you might, 291 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 5: but always having Mexican, Mexican dishes or Mexican ingredients. 292 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 4: And I was in New. 293 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 5: York and you could get at that time some ingredients. 294 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 5: Now you can get everything in New York for Mexican food, 295 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 5: but then it was a bit more difficult, so you 296 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 5: would have to sort out the places and then it's 297 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 5: when I start cooking the promise and it's something I 298 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 5: haven't haven't solved yet. 299 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 4: What is it that I love cooking but i'm missy. 300 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,959 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that's a problem. And the other thing is 301 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 5: I don't know how to manage the time. Yeah, time 302 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 5: and miss is the thing. And because there was appearing 303 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 5: which I said, you know, I just want to stay 304 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 5: here home, and you know, like my kid just moved 305 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 5: to New York, I want to be here. So it 306 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 5: was pretty much dedicated to that and my life would 307 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 5: go into doing menus and where I'm going to cook tomorrow. 308 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 2: When you when you talk about we've talked about food 309 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 2: in your in your parents' home and your grandmother's cooking, 310 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 2: and in New York you're cooking and pretty ingredients. How 311 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 2: the restaurants appeal to you? Do you like eating in 312 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 2: a restaurant? Did your parents ever take you to a 313 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 2: restaurants in Mexico City? 314 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 5: Yes, that was for me growing up. There was a 315 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 5: big treat going to a restaurant. It was a treat 316 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 5: because it was expensive, so you would eat at home. 317 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 5: I mean the typical thing is, oh, I would like 318 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 5: to go at a restaurant and my grandmother and my 319 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 5: mom saying we can cook it at home and it's cheaper. 320 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 5: You would get mostly Mexican food, where it would be 321 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 5: international food or Argentine and steaks or panadas and stuff 322 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 5: like that. Once that I start being more independent pretty much. 323 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 5: I lived in restaurants, yes, because also restaurants are not 324 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 5: only a place where there's food, is a communion, and 325 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 5: in Mexico, you know how it goes. I mean, the 326 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 5: thing in Mexico is that comitas or lunchtime. 327 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 4: Is dangerous. 328 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 5: Because you know that you're going to agree with some 329 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 5: friends to meet at three pm for lunch, and you 330 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 5: sit there and maybe they order a tequila to open up, 331 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 5: and then food comes and people eat. The launch extends 332 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 5: until six pm, seven pm, and suddenly they're you just 333 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 5: staying there and you're asking for some sort of diner. 334 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 2: So food is if it is a connection and it 335 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 2: is something very important to our life. So I suppose 336 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 2: my last question to you from a very wonderful conversation 337 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 2: here as people are starting to eat in the garden, 338 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 2: is if you have a comfort food, if there's a 339 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 2: food that you go to when not because you're hungry, 340 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 2: not because you're celebrating, but because you need comfort. What 341 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 2: would that food be? 342 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 4: I think definitely will be Yeah, that would be That 343 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:49,959 Speaker 4: would be it. 344 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 2: Well, I look forward to having a case Ida with you. 345 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 4: I would love that. 346 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 2: To visit the online shop of the River Cafe, go 347 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 2: to shop Therivercafe dot co dot uk. 348 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: River Cafe Table four is a production of iHeartRadio and 349 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: Adamized Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 350 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.