1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to steph you missed in history class from how 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Uh. It 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: is time for another lots of problematic things happened under 5 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: Queen Victoria's rule episode. Yeah, you can have a your 6 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: favor is problematic tag for your fave Queen Victoria and 7 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: all the problematic things. Yes. Um. I always try to 8 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 1: differentiate and say that the things I love about Queen 9 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: Victoria are like the private side of her and the 10 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: things she shared with her family. But I really struggle 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: with so much of her reign because Britain was doing 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: some really awful things during that time. So this is 13 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: another story of Britain's quest to colonize and conquer the world, 14 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: believing themselves to be superior to the people who already 15 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: lived in the places that they were moving into. Uh. 16 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: In this case, it is about one particular aspect of 17 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: Britain's efforts in Southern Africa, which culminated in a war 18 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: with the Zulu Kingdom. Just in the interest of expectations management, 19 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: we are not going to cover the entirety of this 20 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: conflict because it reaches almost into the twentieth century. We 21 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: are focusing on the first segment on it, which led 22 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: to what most historians would consider the end of the 23 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: Zulu kingdom. So first you're going to start with a 24 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: little bit of context on the Zulu people. They still exists, 25 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: still a major ethnic group in South Africa. So the 26 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: black population of South Africa is separated into four primary 27 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: ethnic divisions, the Soto, the Nguni, the shangant Sauna, and 28 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: the Venda. The Nguni people which are the largest group, 29 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: are then subdivided subdivided into four other groups that are 30 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: the Southern Ninguni, the Swazi people, the ind of Ballet people, 31 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: and the Northern and Central Uni. We've mentioned before that 32 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: that that a continent of Africa has thousands and thousands 33 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: of ethnic groups and languages and diverse peoples and this 34 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: is a hallmark of that. So that last group, the 35 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: Northern and Central and Guni are the Zulu speaking people's. 36 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: So the Zulu language is a subgroup of the larger 37 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: Guni language group, and the that is within the other 38 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: larger group of the Bantu speaking people's which has come 39 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: up on the show before. Yes, and it doesn't help 40 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: that part of the problem we're not going to really 41 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: discuss this specifically in this episode, is that as uh 42 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: Europeans moved in and tried to shuffle things around and 43 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: reorganize various things, it only further complicated those like divisions 44 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: and subdivisions. Yeah, we talked some about it in our 45 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: our previous two parter on I mean Pasha, how when 46 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: the scramble for Africa is going on, these very arbitrary 47 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: boundary lines got drawn, sort of grouping people together in 48 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: a way that that was not necessarily unified people before. 49 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: And this is all part of that. Correct u so Zulu, 50 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: which is said to mean sky, was also, according to 51 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: oral history, the name of the founder of the Zulu line, 52 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: which is believed to have begun in the second half 53 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: of the seventeenth century. For many generations, there wasn't really 54 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: one centralized Zulu nation. There was a combination of nomadic 55 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: groups and more stationary farming family groups. It was all 56 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: loosely connected in an agricultural society. But by the late 57 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds, these scattered groups of people had begun to 58 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: consolidate a little bit. So as these smaller groups started 59 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: to join forces within the larger culture, there were power struggles, 60 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: there were military actions. In the early nineteenth century, through 61 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: a brutal military campaign, a chief named Shaka conquered all 62 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: the other Zulu chiefs and united the Zulu groups into 63 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: the Zulu Nation. Under Shaka, the Zulu and the Natal Naguni, 64 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: which was a neighboring group, joined forces, and this kabinet 65 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: sation of people's formed what came to be known as 66 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: the Zulu Kingdom or the Zulu Empire. When Shaka died 67 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: in eighteen twenty eight, the empire that he had built 68 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: lost a little bit of its power, but it still 69 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: remained united. But as the nineteenth century pressed on, European 70 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 1: settlers and colonists moved in greater numbers into the area. 71 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: By the eighteen seventies, British interests in South Africa directly 72 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: threatened the Zulu Kingdom. For one great Britain saw Africa's 73 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: local indigenous population as just inherently less developed and thus 74 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: exploitable as labor. In eighteen sixty six, diamonds were discovered 75 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: along the Orange River. Gold was also known as a 76 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: resource in the region, and Britain wanted the land that 77 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: had these resources and people who could work to deliver 78 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: them into the hands of the British. Second, British was 79 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: interested in a power grab that would break down the 80 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: existing African states. Again, they had had all of this 81 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: long ongoing battles to develop their structure uh and it 82 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: wanted to break down all of the structure that have 83 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: been built in that process and put it all under 84 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: British rule. And this of course ties into that first 85 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: reason we just mentioned, where they wanted to land and 86 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: the people to work as labor, but also to the 87 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: larger push for Great Britain to rule as much of 88 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: the world as possible. Third, there were land disputes involving 89 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: the Boer population. These were South Africans, primarily of Dutch descent, 90 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: but they could also be French, Huguenot or German. After 91 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: the Dutch East India Company had established a headquarters at 92 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: the Cape of Good Hope in the sixteen fifties, immigration 93 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: had been heavily encouraged, and as this colony had gotten bigger, 94 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: relations with the indigenous people living in the area were 95 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: not good. In the early nineteenth century, after British possession 96 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: of the colony led to fundamental disagreement between Great Britain's 97 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: policies and the Bowers. More than ten thousand members of 98 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: the Boer colony moved to other areas outside of British rule, 99 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: including Natal on the eastern side of South Africa, which 100 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: was right up against Zulu territory. And as the Boers 101 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: attempted to spread their land holdings into Zulu land, they 102 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: claimed they needed more land for farming. Tensions between the 103 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: two groups just escalated at a continuing pace. In eighteen 104 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: seventy two, a man named set Uio became the Zulu king. 105 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: He was about forty six at the time that this happened, 106 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:32,239 Speaker 1: and his father Pande, had ruled before him. Under Pande, 107 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: the Zulu nation had lost some of its power as 108 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: a youth, said Schwio had been involved in significant conflicts 109 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: when he was just twelve or thirteen, and we don't 110 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: know because his exact birth date is not known. He 111 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: fought against the Boers as they moved to take over 112 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: Zulu land, and then in his twenties he went to 113 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: battle against the Swazi people along with his fellow Zulu 114 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: warriors as the two groups fought over the valley territory 115 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 1: of Pongola. He also led one fact and of a 116 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: violence civil war against his brother, in which set Schwio 117 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: was the victor. He was recognized as heir to the 118 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: throne after the conflict was over. While he became king 119 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy two, he had actually been doing a 120 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: lot of the work of king for more than a 121 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: decade yes his father had aged. He had really just 122 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: taken on more and more responsibility. And while he was 123 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: recognized as a sovereign of his people by the British, 124 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: set Schwio was not interested in giving any of his 125 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: authority up and accepting British rule, so he began amassing 126 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: his forces. Eventually, set Schwio had tens of thousands of 127 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: well trained men ready to fight. Estimates placed the number 128 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: somewhere between forty thousand and sixty thousand, although an exact 129 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: count is not known, and through this disciplined development of 130 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: the Zulu nations might set Schwio came to be seen 131 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: as a very real threat to British interests in the area. Transball, 132 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 1: which was a Borer republic, was annexed by great in 133 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy seven, and from that point on it became 134 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: clear that British efforts were going to be centered around 135 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: making South Africa a federation of white colonies with the 136 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: intent of disbanding the existing kingdoms of Africa and then 137 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: ruling over their people. In eighteen seventy eight, the British, 138 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: concerned at the immense military power of the Zulu Kingdom, 139 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: started a campaign to break down the nation's power through propaganda. 140 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: Such Wio, the local administrators claimed, was a tyrant with 141 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: the military that he could barely control, and his people 142 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: would not work in British colonies. They also claimed that 143 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: the Zulu nation had threatened at all with military action. 144 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,719 Speaker 1: Next up, we're going to talk about a British man 145 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: who seemed dead set on getting into a war with 146 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: such Wio was their Bartle Frere. We're gonna stop first 147 00:08:50,920 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: for a quick sponsor break. On March twenty nine, eighteen fifteen. 148 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: Sir Henry Bartle Edwards Freyre was born in Wales. He 149 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: was not considered a sur yet, but that'll come later. 150 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: As a young man, fresh out of college, he became 151 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: a civil servant in Britain's administration of India. He rose 152 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 1: through the ranks and he was considered good at his job. 153 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: During the super Boy Uprising, which we talked about in 154 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: a previous episode. Freyre sent troops from his own region 155 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: to aid his fellow British administrators, and he was rewarded 156 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: with a knighthood for those efforts. He served in Mumbai 157 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: for five years as a British governor in the eighteen sixties, 158 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: and then he was appointed to the India Council. Back 159 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 1: home in England, in eighteen seventy six, he was granted 160 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: the title of baronet, and the following year he was 161 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: made governor and High Commissioner of the Cape Colony. The 162 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: plan to emerge the Boer Republic and British South Africa 163 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: fell under his purview. The situation that Freyre walked into 164 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: was already loaded with conflict. Not everyone in the area 165 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: was on board with this plan to confederate all of 166 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: the colonies. The Boo was of transfall. We're actually considering 167 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: making a move to become an independent nation rather than 168 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: joining with the British colonies, and the colonists uh that 169 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: were part of Britain already did not wholly buy into 170 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: this plan either. To make matters worse, Freyre's boss resigned 171 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: at the beginning of eighteen seventy eight, leaving Frere to 172 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: deal with the growing tension in the region. It was 173 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: under Frere's direction the Zulu came to be characterized as hostile. 174 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,719 Speaker 1: The Zulu Kingdom was autonomous, and Frere believed that if 175 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: they went unchallenged, they would get in the way of 176 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: his mission to achieve his confederation directive. At the end 177 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: of eighteen seventy eight, and ultimatum was issued by Frere, 178 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: Saichuyo had to disband his entire army in the space 179 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: of a month. The Zulu Kingdom was also expected to 180 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: pay reparations to insults that the British claimed that the 181 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: Zulu had made against them. In truth, Freyre's ultimatum was 182 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: made with no expectation that it would be met. It 183 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: wasn't even realistic to expect the Zulu nation to be 184 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: able to comply with it. It was really just a 185 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: checklist exercise so that fare could say, in effect, we 186 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: offered them terms and they were not met before engaging 187 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: in a military conflict. And this was really all aimed 188 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: at justifying this action to leadership back in Great Britain, 189 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: who had in fact not wanted to get into a 190 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: war in South Africa. Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli had specifically 191 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: wanted to avoid it, and Colonial Secretary Sir Michael hicks 192 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: Beach had actually written to Freyer to make it very 193 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: clear that the British government was already dealing with Russia 194 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: at the time, They had their own problems going on 195 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: and they could not take on another conflict. At the 196 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: beginning of January eighteen seventy nine, this ultimatum expired and 197 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: British troops invaded the Zulu Kingdom under the command of 198 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: Lord Chelmsford. So yeah, even though Great Britain didn't want it, uh, 199 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: Frere did and he moved forward with it. This is 200 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: one of those things that it's worth pointing out. This 201 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: was not uncommon in uh the British move to colonize everywhere. 202 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: There were you know, very very great distances involved, and 203 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: there were men that were acting with autonomy, sometimes against 204 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 1: British orders because there really was no one to intercede 205 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 1: and it was expected that they understood the local situation better, 206 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: so they kind of had a little bit of leeway 207 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: to do these sorts of things. Initially, Chelmsford's charge into 208 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: Zulu land was hindered by nature. There were really heavy 209 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: rains in january that made overland travel difficult, and the 210 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: high grasses of the landscape also made it almost impossible 211 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: to get a visual bearing on location. For some reason, 212 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: in spite of these poor conditions, he continued with this advance, 213 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: and continued in a somewhat reckless manner, because the British 214 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: troops were not using scouts or sentries as they made 215 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: their way across this grassy, muddy landscape. As to why 216 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: those precautions were abandoned, it was because Chelmsford was completely 217 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: dismissive of the Zulu military, and that sentiment and that 218 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: sort of condescending attitude really echoed down through his troops. 219 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 1: At one point, Chelmsford wrote quote, if I am called 220 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: upon to conduct operations against them, I shall strive to 221 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: be in a position to show them how hopelessly inferior 222 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: they are to us in fighting power, although numerically stronger. First, 223 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: Chelmsford led the center column of a three part invasion 224 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: across the Missignanti River, which was something that British knew 225 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: is the Buffalo River. They established a depot and the 226 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: British forces pushed from there into the east. The right 227 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: column of the British forces headed towards Ulundi, seat of 228 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: the royal family, and the left column headed to the 229 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: Tugala River to block Zulu forces from crossing it. On 230 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: the Zulu side of the conflict, the initial plan was 231 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: to try to avoid a military engagement. Its been the 232 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: case when the British started their disinformation campaign against such 233 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: Yo when the Zulus in the first place, and they 234 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: claimed that the Zulu nation had threatened Natal Susio's response 235 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: was to call his military to retreat deeper into their 236 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: own land. It was a clear indication that he did 237 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: not want to provoke the British. Yeah, as he was 238 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: realizing that people were saying he was being threatening, he 239 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: was like, come away from the borders, come away from 240 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: the borders. We don't want them to think we're trying 241 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: to threaten anybody. Uh. He was really trying to save 242 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: his people by avoiding getting into any sort of aggressive situation. 243 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: And even though the ultimatum from Britain had been insulting 244 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: and impossible to fulfill, sat Schwio was still hoping that 245 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: they could find a resolution that did not involve combat. 246 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: He had ordered his men to take defensive positions only 247 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: and not to make an offensive move to attack, but 248 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: as the British advanced, it became more and more clear 249 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: that a conflict was just unavoidable. Chelmsford moved into Isunthwuana 250 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: on January to set up camp. There was a small 251 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: group of Zulu men who resisted this incursion, and Chalmsford 252 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: thought that this was just the primary military force of 253 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: all of the Zulu, so he was completely incorrect in 254 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: that assumption. Chelmsford next took about half of his men 255 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: to an engagement fifteen kilometers away, and this left Colonel 256 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: Henry Pouline in charge temporarily. The following day, Colonel A. W. 257 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: Dernford arrived to assume command, and when Dernford went after 258 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: a small Zulu party that had been foraging nearby, he 259 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: followed them right into a force of twenty thousand Zulu men, 260 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: and his men were disorganized and unprotected, so these unprotected 261 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: men were basically sitting ducks. There's actually some conflicting writing 262 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: about how the whole battle played out. According to one version, 263 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: the Zulu force had not intended to battle that day, 264 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: but felt that they had to move defensively when confronted 265 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: by Dernford. And then another take on the situation gives 266 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: a Zuli more credit for basically machination, like the view 267 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: that this Zulu trap lure Dunford into it with a 268 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: small resistance party while the twenty thousand men waited to 269 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: spring that app In either case, there were fewer than 270 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: two thousand British troops at that location and there were 271 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: these some twenty thousand Zulus, and those British troops had 272 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: no protective structure and they were taken completely by surprise 273 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: because they were not expecting to engage in a massive 274 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: conflict at that time. And when Dernford attempted to retreat 275 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: to save his camp, the Zulu forces filled in the 276 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: space between the British soldiers and that camp and they 277 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: cut them off before they could do so. The Zulu 278 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: used a military tactic that sometimes attributed to their former 279 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: leader Shaka in terms of its invention, was called the 280 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: horns of the Buffalo, and was characterized by the Zulu 281 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: fighting force encircling the enemy fighters with two lines of men, 282 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: which were the horns, and they reached out from each 283 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: side of the main fighting force, which was the chest, 284 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: to work their way around their opponent. Yeah, and then 285 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: they would kind of cut them off from any any 286 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: means of escape and in this case also from their camp. 287 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: More than eight hundred British troops and five African auxiliary 288 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,360 Speaker 1: troops were killed by the Zulu army in the brutal 289 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: hand to hand combat that followed. To compound the laws, 290 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: the Zulus had captured the camp and they had confiscated 291 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: as many as one thousand weapons in this raid, further 292 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: bolstering their own army's power. Very few British troops survived 293 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 1: this encounter, as the Zulu did not take prisoners. That's 294 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: why I realized that there was no way, after the 295 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: Zulus success in this battle that the British would ever 296 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: work with him and his people to forge a negotiation. Yeah, 297 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: he kind of. It was one of those things where 298 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: while his people were celebrating, he realized that this really 299 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: spelled the end of any possibility that they could work 300 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: something out. Uh. And as for Great Britain, when word 301 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 1: arrived about what had happened, uh, the country stood in 302 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: shock that a culture that they believed to be intellectual 303 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: inferior had so soundly defeated their troops. You know, they 304 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: used largely spears, some of them were armed with firearms. 305 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 1: But they just considered to be these, you know, wild 306 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,479 Speaker 1: people that didn't have any technology, and in fact they 307 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: were very advanced and very smart and had military tactics. 308 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: Chelmsford was actually one of Queen Victoria's favorites. So although 309 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: he made some terribly blundering missteps and basically like left 310 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: his men behind unsecured and led to this disastrous outcome 311 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 1: of the battle, he was protected by Benjamin Disraeli. For 312 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: his part, Chelmsford claimed that his troops had been undersupplied 313 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: with ammunition and also shifted the blame to Darnford. Was 314 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: an epic effort on chelmsford part to cover his own tail. Yeah, 315 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about how that worked out in 316 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: the coda, and it's a little dispiriting. We are about 317 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: to delve into another battle though, and talk a little 318 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: bit more about how Great Britain framed all of these 319 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: events to best advantage. But first we will take a 320 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: little bit of a break and hear from one of 321 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: our sponsors. Emboldened by the success of the raid, it 322 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: is said Juana, and aware that there was no chancing 323 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: non aggressive settlement could be struck, Zulu forces planned a 324 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: second attack and this time. The target was a place 325 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: known to the Zulus as quadumu Uh and probably mispronouncing that, 326 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,719 Speaker 1: but it was known to the British, and you may 327 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: have seen it if you have ever studied any history 328 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: of the area as Rourke's Drift. And this was the 329 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: British depot on the missian Yathi River that we mentioned 330 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: them setting up earlier. One of such why I was 331 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: brothers led this rate against such why I was wishes 332 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: and the hope was that they would surprise the British 333 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,719 Speaker 1: troops as they had at is Wana. The word had 334 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: been sent ahead to the depot, so the British were 335 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: prepared this time. The ensuing battle lasted almost twelve hours. 336 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: In the end, more than five hundred Zulu warriors were killed. 337 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: Rourke's Drift has actually been written about extensively as a 338 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: great victory for British forces, and in terms of odds 339 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: it really did defy them. This was a ace where 340 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: about a hundred and forty British men were fighting against 341 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: several thousand of Situyo's well trained warriors, and the British 342 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: managed to fend them off. Eleven Victoria's Crosses were awarded 343 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: after the Battle of Rook's Drift. This was more than 344 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: have been awarded for a single engagement before or since. 345 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: It was lauded as an incredible feat of heroism by 346 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: the British. The fanfare hid the fact that the battle 347 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: it was in Wanna and the Zulu conflict in general 348 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: were incredibly costly, both in terms of human lives and 349 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: in terms of funding, and after more than forty years 350 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: of civil service, Freyer, who you remember, really wanted this conflict, 351 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: was blamed for the failures in South Africa. He was 352 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: ordered back to England in eighteen eighty when negotiation efforts 353 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: to bring the Confederation plan to fruition had completely failed. 354 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 1: But Rooks Drift continued to be inflated as a great 355 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: and important victory, an effort made in large part to 356 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: try to minimize what had happened earlier is in Wanna. Chelmsford, 357 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: who had handled things so poorly, was recalled from Africa 358 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: and he returned to England, where he continued his whole 359 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: his own disinformation campaign to minimize his own errors and 360 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: throw Dernford under the bus. After isn'th Juana and Rourke's Drift, 361 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,679 Speaker 1: Great Britain launched a robust military effort in the Zulu 362 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: territories to just end this conflict once and for all. 363 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: Their first engagement, which took place on March eighteen seventy 364 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: nine at O'bane, was unsuccessful, but the day after that loss, 365 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: on March twenty nine, another push was made by the British, 366 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: and this effort, which came to be known as the 367 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: Battle of Kambula, gained the British Army of victory. From 368 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: that point on, British troops worked their way through the 369 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: area to systematically take down the remaining Zulu army. Took 370 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: several months for the Zulu War to reach its conclusion, 371 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,360 Speaker 1: though that finally came. On July fourth, eighteen seventy nine, 372 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 1: troops attacked Ulundi, the side of the royal residence of 373 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,959 Speaker 1: such Wio. Suchuio escaped and fled, but he was captured 374 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 1: against several weeks later and exiled at Cape Town. After 375 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: a Great Britain had seized control of Zulu land, it 376 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: was parceled out divided between Britain and the long term 377 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: enemies of such Wio. Three years later, the former Zulu 378 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: king was actually allowed to travel to Britain. He wanted 379 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: to restore the Zulu monarchy, and he was willing to 380 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: work within Britain's political system to do so. And in 381 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: those three years, that Zulu kingdom had broken into thirteen 382 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: smaller pieces, and it had basically been a constant series 383 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: of battles ever since. So the British as well as 384 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: such Wio, we're kind of interested in setting up some 385 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: sort of order once again. So while he was granted 386 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: permission to restore the monarchy, this was of course not 387 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: the leadership power it had been when he returned to 388 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: the royal village in New Lundi. It led to another 389 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: civil war. The defeat of Suchwaio and his people in 390 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty three is often cited as the end of 391 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: the Zulu kingdom. Yeah, it wasn't the end of his line. 392 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: He had a son, But that becomes that second part 393 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: of the story that I referenced at the top of 394 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: the episode said Schwio died in the British Zulu Native 395 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: Reserve on February eighth, eighty four, and while many of 396 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: his people believed that he was actually poisoned, his cause 397 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 1: of death was recorded as a heart attack. And as 398 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: a sad coda to this whole story, Lord Chelmsford was 399 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: rewarded amply, even though he was kind of a Weasley 400 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: underperformer in this whole story. He was promoted to general, 401 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: the Queen gave him awards, he was made Lieutenant of 402 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: the Tower of London. This is one of those parts 403 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: where I get so mad at Queen Victoria because she 404 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,959 Speaker 1: just loved him even though he was horrible. Uh. And 405 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: of course this was not the end of conflict or 406 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: strife in South Africa, but it is where we are 407 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,959 Speaker 1: rapping today's episode, just noting that the Zulu kingdom at 408 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: this point was basically completely gone, even though the Zulu 409 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: people continued. In two thousand, historian named David Rattray found 410 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: an out um containing twenty four sketches and a hundred 411 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: watercolors that were made one by one of the British 412 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: soldiers at Rourke's Drift. A soldier was William Whitelack Lloyd. 413 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: These sketches and paintings were all made during Lloyd's time 414 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: with the First Battalion, twenty four Regiment as the group 415 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: traveled in South Africa, and they show the landscape of 416 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: Zulu land during this period. The whole lot was auctioned 417 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: by Southby's in twelve for just under fifty thousand British pounds. Yeah, 418 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: you can look at several of those. The Southist Listening 419 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: still exists and all included in the show notes, and 420 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: you can see some of these these sort of moments 421 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: that he captured while they were traveling. There was also 422 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: a documentary that came out some years back that the 423 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: BBC did that really did kind of reframe the Battle 424 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: of Rourke's Drift and kind of the possibility that some 425 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: of the people that got awards for that engagement were 426 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: not necessarily the people that maybe deserved them. And it 427 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: was a big um controversy see among historians who specialize 428 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: in this particular piece of history. Uh, it got a 429 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: lot of hackles up, so that is also worth looking into. 430 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: Is it's an interesting take on the specifics of that battle. 431 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: Do you also have some listener mail for it. I do. 432 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: It's important listener mail because I messed up from our 433 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: listener Liz uh and she is writing about our lawn 434 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: Cheney podcast. Uh, and she says, thank you for your 435 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: excellent and informative podcasts. I always enjoy listening and they 436 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: make household chores and traveling for work much more enjoyable. 437 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: I'm a certified interpreter in American Sign language, and she 438 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,239 Speaker 1: says where she is, but we don't like to give 439 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 1: away personal information. And the agency I workforce serves a 440 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: large area around the city. In my affiliation with a 441 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: s L and the deaf community. Uh, that's what prompted 442 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: me to write you. I enjoyed your episode on Lawn Cheney. 443 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: It was pleased that you noted his communication with his 444 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 1: deaf parents as instrumental in developing his acting skills. However, 445 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: I do have two things I'd like for you to 446 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: know about sign language and deafness. In the episode, the 447 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: phrase deaf mute was used to describe Cheney's parents. Most 448 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 1: of the deaf people I know take offense at this term. 449 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: If a deaf person is unable or chooses not to speak, 450 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: the preferred term is nonverbal. The same term is often 451 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: applied to people with autism or other disabilities who do 452 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 1: not use spoken language. I understand that the term mute 453 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: makes sense to hearing people because we do not hear 454 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: spoken communication from a mute person. Deaf people, however, often 455 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: do not see their deafness or lack of spoken language 456 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: as a disability mute implies that they are unable to communicate, 457 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: when the truth is that deaf people have a rich 458 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: language and culture that they are very proud of. Nonverbal 459 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: demonstrates that they do not communicate via spoken language, without 460 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: giving the impression that they are unable to communicate at all. 461 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: She goes on for some more specifics with that, and 462 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: then I want to pick up a little bit later. Uh, 463 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: there was one other point in the episode that I 464 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: wanted to make a note of, also regarding Chineese upbringing 465 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: and deaf parents and the show. Chinee was described as 466 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: learning to communicate without language through gesture, signing, and facial expression. 467 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: What this sentence describes as a visual gestural language rather 468 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: than an oral oral A U R A l anguage. 469 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: There are more than two hundred known sign languages around 470 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: the world, with some estimates approaching four hundred. Signed languages 471 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: incorporate visual cues to communicate what is often expressed using 472 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: inflection and tone of voice in spoken language. Body language 473 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: and facial expression are integral parts of communication in visual 474 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: gestural languages, and it's possible that Cheney's family used informal 475 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: home signs instead of a formal signed language such as 476 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: a s L. But I disagree with the description of gesture, 477 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: signing and facial expression as communicating without language. And Liz 478 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: is very nice. She says she didn't take offense. She 479 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,959 Speaker 1: just wanted to make that clear, UM. And that's totally 480 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: my fault. Part of it is that, UM, I know 481 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: what happens to me sometimes and I'm always trying to 482 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: get better at this, is that when you're looking at 483 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: old sources, they will always use old terminology and sometimes 484 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: my brain does not update. And that is exactly what 485 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: happened on that one, UM, because it was such a 486 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: small part and I was so excited to talk about 487 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: his movies. So that's my oversight. And I apologize, UM 488 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: for a little bit more clarity on on me trying 489 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: to explain him speaking with his mother, particularly when she 490 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 1: was very very ill, uh, without language. They had reached 491 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: a point where she had gotten so sick she couldn't 492 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,239 Speaker 1: move much. So even the sign language that they had 493 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 1: used prior to that sounds like it could, it really 494 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: was not in use at that point in time. So 495 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: there they were kind of having to find all new 496 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: ways for him to communicate with her because she was 497 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: almost completely non mobile. Um, so that might give a 498 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 1: little more clarity to my poor choice of language there. 499 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: It's still a por choice of language, but I just 500 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: wanted to explain the genesis of it. So thank you 501 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: so much, Liz, because that's important stuff to remember. Um, 502 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: and I always need their reminders Heaven knows, so I'm 503 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: gonna always try to do better. Uh. I think she 504 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: also suggested a Death President Now episode what uh, which 505 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: we have an archive? Yeah. Uh yeah, we actually did 506 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: an episode on Death President Now a while back. Uh. 507 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: We may end up we could maybe push that into 508 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: classics at some point in the near future so that 509 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: we make sure it gets out there. Found good. Yeah cool. 510 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: If you want to write to us, you can do 511 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: so at History Podcast at how stuff works dot com. 512 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: We are also on virtually all social media as Missed 513 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: in History. You can also come to our website, which 514 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: is Missed in History dot com. Uh, and then you 515 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: will find every episode we have ever done, including that 516 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: Deaf President's Now episode, as well as show notes on 517 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: any of the episodes Tracy and I have worked on together, 518 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: and we encourage you come and visit us at missed 519 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: in History dot com for more on this and thousands 520 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: of other topics. Visit how stuff works dot com.