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Speaker 1: Pushkin, Pushkin. Glen Hansard is best known as the lead

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Speaker 1: in the two thousand and seven movie Once. It's about

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Speaker 1: a hard scrabble busker in Dublin. It's a role he

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Speaker 1: was probably destined to play himself, having dropped out of

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Speaker 1: school at thirteen to busk around Ireland's capital. Prior to

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Speaker 1: that movie role, Hansard had put out a string of

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Speaker 1: great albums with a band called The Frames, but after

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Speaker 1: the film he started working on other projects and also

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Speaker 1: a solo career. His fourth solo album, The Wild Willing,

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Speaker 1: came out on Anti Records last year. He and his band,

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Speaker 1: including keyboardists Rami, met up with Bruce Headlim and Nashville

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Speaker 1: to chat about the unique approach he and the band

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Speaker 1: took to creating the record, improvising nearly every song, and

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Speaker 1: unlike most folk records, it has a lot of electronics

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Speaker 1: on it. Hanser talks and plays through some of the

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Speaker 1: songs off the album and then opens things up with

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Speaker 1: a song that contains a very unintuitive sample. This is

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Speaker 1: broken record liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond.

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Speaker 1: Here's the Blood Hansard plane. I'll be you be me

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Speaker 1: See if you can guess the sample. It's very hard

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Speaker 1: to sum up your career because you've done so many

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Speaker 1: different things. And when I was reviewing them, I realized something.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if this has occurred to you,

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Speaker 1: but you want an Oscar for the song from the

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Speaker 1: movie Once, and I think you want to Grammy as

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Speaker 1: well for that. I know the soundtrack. Wont to Gramm?

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Speaker 1: Does that mean I did? I think it means you did. Oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe it didn't, I think the No? I think yeah

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Speaker 1: I did? Yeah, okay, uh. And then it once became

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Speaker 1: a Broadway show that one slew of Grammy's, Tony's and um.

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Speaker 1: But that means you have an Oscar, a Grammy, and

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Speaker 1: a Tony. If you get an Emmy, you have the egot.

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Speaker 1: Do you know the egot? No, the egot is for

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Speaker 1: people who have won Emmy's, Grammy's Oscars, and Tony's Special Award.

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Speaker 1: There's only been fifteen people in history. No way you

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Speaker 1: would join Richard Rogers, Helen Hayes, Okay, John Legend, but

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Speaker 1: you know Barbara streisand didn't do it. Okay, wew see

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Speaker 1: what you can do? Okay, all right, that's our project.

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Speaker 1: You've given me a new trajectory in life. Okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: we're on it. That's our project. Then um TV people

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Speaker 1: listen up. We're getting this man an egot um you

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Speaker 1: got it. This album, this new album you're leasing is

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Speaker 1: it's described as a departure from what you've been doing

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Speaker 1: the last few albums. So tell me, tell me about

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Speaker 1: the making of this album and how it is different. Well,

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Speaker 1: sometimes we go true periods of our life where we're

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Speaker 1: doing certain things and we're you know, we're writing certain ways.

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Speaker 1: And for me, the last couple of record well, certainly

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Speaker 1: since the beginning of me making Glen Hansard Records, it

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Speaker 1: was it seems to me like the city of New

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Speaker 1: York had a kind of a there was a through line,

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Speaker 1: there was a kind of an American sense throughout the

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Speaker 1: records that I was making over the last few years.

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Speaker 1: And this one it just it's the longest period in

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Speaker 1: the last kind of twenty years that I haven't been

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Speaker 1: in America, which is about a year and a half.

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Speaker 1: And you know, not to say that that really means

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Speaker 1: anything for or against the record, It's just that I

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Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in Paris in the last

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Speaker 1: year and a half and also time with with with

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Speaker 1: Rome and David Odlum over in France recording this record

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Speaker 1: and Joe and making a kind of a decided to

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Speaker 1: make an acoustic record. But I had some time in

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Speaker 1: France and in Paris, and that I think is what

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Speaker 1: made this album a little different, and that when I

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Speaker 1: listened to these songs now, it's the streets of Paris

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Speaker 1: that come back to me, because it was on the

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Speaker 1: streets where I wrote the lyrics, you know, taking long

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Speaker 1: walks and thinking of meditating. When a song comes into

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Speaker 1: your head, you get about four days of absolute focus

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Speaker 1: because you get excited about a lyric, or you get

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Speaker 1: excited about a melody, and it just rolls around your

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Speaker 1: head and around your head and around your head, and

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Speaker 1: you can sit and you can write at your desk,

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Speaker 1: or you can just go for walks because the song

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Speaker 1: isn't going to leave your head. You've got to. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: you've got four days. Sometimes you've got two weeks where

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Speaker 1: the song won't leave your head. You become obsessed. It

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Speaker 1: becomes the only thought you have, and everything else is

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Speaker 1: just surrounding that one thought. And so in Paris, I

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Speaker 1: was walking around with these songs in my head, and

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Speaker 1: I was finding the lines and I was kind of

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Speaker 1: jotting them down quickly, either in my phone or in

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Speaker 1: a notebook. And I'm gonna get home that evening I'd

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Speaker 1: sort of compile what I'd sort of come across during

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Speaker 1: the day, and what's wonderful, I said a couple of

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Speaker 1: parameters around the songs, and that I thought each lyric

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Speaker 1: needs to be an actual experience. I wanted every line

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Speaker 1: in the album and every line in every song to

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Speaker 1: be a particular memory that I couldn't just be all

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Speaker 1: that rhymes with that and that's actually a good line.

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Speaker 1: That wasn't good enough. It had to be. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to anchor every line into something that was actually going on.

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Speaker 1: And the song you just performed, I'll be You. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I remember walking from the Irish Cultural Center, which was

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Speaker 1: the place I was staying. It was like an old

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Speaker 1: monastery and they gave us a small room and I

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Speaker 1: was spending time in that place and really loving it.

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Speaker 1: In the Latin Quarter, right in the middle of the

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Speaker 1: Latin Quarter and the fifth hour in this morning Paris,

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Speaker 1: and I was walking down the room of tire and

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Speaker 1: turning left, and just as I got to the junction

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Speaker 1: of Lagoblin, which is one of the sort of major streets.

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Speaker 1: This whole thing just sort of hit me, you know.

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Speaker 1: I had kind of hit upon with Joe and Ruth

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Speaker 1: in this studio Your Love's a Bonnie Snare traps me

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Speaker 1: in the Evening, which I thought, what an interesting thing

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Speaker 1: to just sort of pop out of your mouth. And

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Speaker 1: I liked the image of it. You know that that

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Speaker 1: that that that there's a kind of a you know,

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Speaker 1: you know how to you know how to pull me in,

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Speaker 1: you know exactly what it is, you know my buttons,

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Speaker 1: you know, And there's an intimacy in that and admitting

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Speaker 1: to someone that you know exactly what it is. And

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Speaker 1: so I started to think about the song as the

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Speaker 1: lover as a as the spider who devours her lover,

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Speaker 1: and so I started going off on that imagery in

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Speaker 1: my head, and it was like, I'll be you, be me,

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Speaker 1: and I'll be you, and we won't say no more

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Speaker 1: about it, this idea that we'll swap will become each other.

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Speaker 1: And I was really really pleased where the song was going.

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Speaker 1: It kind of there was a kind of a permission

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Speaker 1: to get dark, if you like. There's something about the

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Speaker 1: chord structure that allowed you to to stay between dark

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Speaker 1: and contemplative and even lightness. So for me, when I

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Speaker 1: heard the song, I'm straight back on that street and

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Speaker 1: it's a particular corner, you know. So so I'm very

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Speaker 1: happy with how that that turned out because now when

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Speaker 1: I sing these songs, I can there's a place in

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Speaker 1: them I can place myself somewhere. It's also a song

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Speaker 1: which is technically uses a sample. Which had you ever

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Speaker 1: used a sample before? Oh? Yeah, oh we've used samples

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Speaker 1: through the friends yea a long time. And my friend

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Speaker 1: David was in the studio and I had myself and

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Speaker 1: Ruth and Joe Will start playing around with just like

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Speaker 1: it was just like you're just fooling around. And my

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Speaker 1: friend David Cleary, who who had asked I had asked

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Speaker 1: to come over. There's two really interesting musicians from Dublin,

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Speaker 1: David Cleary and Duncan Murphy, who are kind of experimental

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Speaker 1: electronic musicians, and they would very much inhabit the world

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Speaker 1: that Romi inhabits, which is just all the texture and bending,

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Speaker 1: and the only kind of instruction that they were given

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Speaker 1: coming into the record was like we'd love you to

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Speaker 1: come in because we have a bunch of Persian music

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Speaker 1: is coming in, so we'd love you to come in

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Speaker 1: as a balance. Because there was just Persian musicians playing

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Speaker 1: along with an acoustic record, it's going to sound quite esoteric,

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Speaker 1: maybe world music in a way. So the way to

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Speaker 1: balance that was to bring in these electronic musicians and say,

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Speaker 1: your job is to disrupt the music, just to disrupt

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Speaker 1: anything you hear and come in and just put an

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Speaker 1: elbow into it, a dirty elbow, which is exactly what

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Speaker 1: they did. And David said, I have a beat for

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Speaker 1: that that I think would really work. And the beat

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Speaker 1: was really odd, and it's from a cassette, so it's

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Speaker 1: really noisy, and we kind of fell in love with

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Speaker 1: the texture of the sound because as a beat, it's

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Speaker 1: just a very simple beat, but we fell in love

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Speaker 1: with the texture. And he said, you know, no one

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Speaker 1: will ever know what this is. This is from the

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Speaker 1: David Bowie Queen session for under Pressure, but it's like

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Speaker 1: a song that was never used. Don't worry about it.

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Speaker 1: It's something I found somewhere that no one will ever

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Speaker 1: figure out what it is, right, and you know, and

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Speaker 1: so we got excited by it and the idea that

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Speaker 1: the idea that that that what we're hearing is you know,

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Speaker 1: John Deakin, you know, and there's a touch of Bowie

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Speaker 1: in the in the in the vocal. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: a kind of a very very so just the fact

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Speaker 1: that the spirit of these these people is on the

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Speaker 1: song kind of gave it an extra layer of kind

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Speaker 1: of sensuality, if you like. So we got very excited

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Speaker 1: about it. We we finished the song, we mixed it,

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Speaker 1: we it mastered it, and we put it on a record.

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Speaker 1: And then suddenly, you know, I downloaded Spotify on my

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Speaker 1: computer because I'd been asked to do it so many

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Speaker 1: times just to sort of listen to it and check

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Speaker 1: it out, which I kind of resisted up until that point,

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Speaker 1: And so I did, and within six songs of listening

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Speaker 1: to Spotify, I heard a song called cool Cat by Queen,

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Speaker 1: which it was exactly the same beat, and I realized

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Speaker 1: that we were in real trouble. So so what are

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Speaker 1: the chances Queen would sue us? So, yeah, nobody's heard

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Speaker 1: of them exactly, and we were. We all cursed our

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Speaker 1: friend David for a while, and then we had to

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Speaker 1: and then Howard had the unenviewed job of going and

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Speaker 1: trying to contact Brian May and asking him for permission,

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Speaker 1: which took a couple of months because they had the

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Speaker 1: movie coming out and stuff. So the album ended up

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Speaker 1: getting put back to April. But you know, in the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, we did recreate the beat, which

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Speaker 1: was easy to do because it's a it's not like

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Speaker 1: a super original beat or and it's like you know,

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Speaker 1: it's on every record. But the fact that it was them,

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Speaker 1: the fact that it was had all that hiss, the

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Speaker 1: fact that it was that it came from that session

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Speaker 1: was worth actually pursuing it. It was worth actually asking

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Speaker 1: and going through the front door and asking for permission,

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Speaker 1: and they gave us permission. Maybe you're listening to a

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Speaker 1: premium Lawyers edition of Spotify that just at that's good

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Speaker 1: to track it down. You said this album was built

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Speaker 1: from the ground app Yeah, what does that mean? What

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Speaker 1: it means is that not one song on this record

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Speaker 1: was a song before we went into the studio, and

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Speaker 1: that's untrue. Two songs, the one I'll Come Back to

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Speaker 1: Find or Leave a Light and Brothers Keeper were two

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Speaker 1: songs that existed before, but the rest of the songs

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Speaker 1: came in the studio. They were they were brand new.

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Speaker 1: They were brand new in the studio and like for instance,

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Speaker 1: like albu b Me was played once, we never played

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Speaker 1: it twice. We never it was a little jam that

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Speaker 1: we elaborated on and a song like way to the

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Speaker 1: World that happened once. We've never played it since. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've actually tried to play it sound checks and stuff,

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Speaker 1: but we never managed to figure out what we did

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Speaker 1: in the moment, and that became the exciting part of

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Speaker 1: the birth of this record. Was we were going into

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Speaker 1: record a set of songs, you know, and some of

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Speaker 1: them are covers, even we were going into record a

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Speaker 1: couple of friends of our songs, and then when it

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Speaker 1: came time to listen back to what we had, we

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Speaker 1: realized that there was a whole bunch of jams that

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Speaker 1: were really interesting. And then we just decided to scrap

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Speaker 1: everything that we were working on and then just focus

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Speaker 1: on the jams. And once we focused on them and

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Speaker 1: we elaborated on them, they became their own songs entirely,

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Speaker 1: and they became much more exciting because they were coming

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Speaker 1: out of nowhere. So for instance, I'm singing songs and

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Speaker 1: keys that are not good for my voice. My voice

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Speaker 1: his way down low, but I'm just trying to I'm

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Speaker 1: just trying to jam along with whatever chords we just

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Speaker 1: came up with. So there was a kind of an

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Speaker 1: element of freedom to those songs that was much more

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Speaker 1: attractive to us in that moment than the songs that

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Speaker 1: we went in to try nail. If you like, why

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Speaker 1: don't we hear another one? Yeah? This is called fools game? Now?

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Speaker 1: Was that a song that came out of the same method.

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Speaker 1: Were you in a studio and he came out of

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Speaker 1: a jam? Yeah, Dunk was showing me around his vocoder's

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Speaker 1: something I'd never used before, and he had this delay

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Speaker 1: on it, which is like now you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, wow, wow wow. I was like, it's a fools,

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Speaker 1: fools game. And I was like, it's a fool's game

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Speaker 1: and that's all I had. But the way the delay

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Speaker 1: was picking it up, it kind of had this very

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Speaker 1: interesting thing, and I thought, wow, this kind of sound.

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Speaker 1: It sort of reminded me somehow of like a velvet

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Speaker 1: underground song but with a kind of a vocoder, And

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Speaker 1: I thought, this is a very simple chord. You know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes if you're lucky, you'll hit upon a kind of

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Speaker 1: a song where you go this sound was simple enough

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Speaker 1: to be really good, you know, where you're not kind

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Speaker 1: of overthinking it, and it just sort it's a fool's fools,

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Speaker 1: fools game, lover that we have to have to have

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Speaker 1: to play. And so I just took away the delay

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Speaker 1: and then just saying it, it's a fool's fools game,

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Speaker 1: lover that we have to play. So it's all the threes,

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Speaker 1: which we were watching an interesting documentary about the base recently,

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Speaker 1: and the tree is a it's a very important part.

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Speaker 1: It's the tree over the four. Boom boom boom boom

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Speaker 1: so woe. Oh it's actually it's it's a tree over

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Speaker 1: three right right, yeah, But apparently this the three over

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Speaker 1: the four is like a big thing. I know, Dylan's

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Speaker 1: really wearing Queen again. I just think that example, it

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Speaker 1: tell me with the three over the four. Tell me

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Speaker 1: with that. Oh, I don't know. I think there was

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Speaker 1: something that was like boots he or somebody was talking

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Speaker 1: and it was like, if you're ever in doubt, just

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Speaker 1: give them three. So you just go, you know, so

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Speaker 1: that's the tree that dream. Then you just feel in

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Speaker 1: something else. Okay. But in that case, like that song

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Speaker 1: which is a beautiful song. If I asked, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: a hundred musicians they would say, no, that song was

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Speaker 1: the product of a songwriter sitting and coming up with

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Speaker 1: a very with a kind of very concise, very perfect

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Speaker 1: lyric that goes with this melody. It doesn't sound like

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Speaker 1: the product of jamming. It doesn't sound like an Eric

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Speaker 1: Clapton song. It doesn't. So I'm interested in how that

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Speaker 1: came together, Like, were you playing a certain kind of

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Speaker 1: riff or and then Romeo you jumped in or how

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Speaker 1: did that emerge that? No, there was no guitar involved.

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Speaker 1: It was just a vocode or keyboard and a delay

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Speaker 1: and then and then that became I actually have the

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Speaker 1: recording here on my phone. Maybe maybe look what i'd find. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll find it. It's going to be it's called vocode

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Speaker 1: or song in my in my let's try this safe

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Speaker 1: safe it works, slow slow right, slue that's me chee.

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Speaker 1: I haven't hit on the fools Game line yet, but

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Speaker 1: I will ye, that would have been nice chord. I

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Speaker 1: moved on to something else there. But at some point,

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Speaker 1: at some point I say fools game and maybe in

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Speaker 1: the next one, but you hear the idea. So then

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Speaker 1: in the studio did you just play that for you know?

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Speaker 1: We we we we don't forgotten to bring his vocoder

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Speaker 1: with him, which was that sound which was kind of

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Speaker 1: a culmination of a bunch of stuff going into a

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Speaker 1: bunch of stuff creating that big sort of phiz of

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Speaker 1: sound and delay. So we went and we ordered some

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Speaker 1: Russian vocoder on eBay, which he claimed would be like

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Speaker 1: the perfect one to do it on, and we think

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Speaker 1: we could got it for like six hundred quid. It

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Speaker 1: was like it was expensive, and someone in Spain had it,

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Speaker 1: and then Heavier had called theavier, our friend in Spain

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Speaker 1: had called to the shop and the guy had given

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Speaker 1: him the anyway we got the vocode or was a

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Speaker 1: Russian vocoder. We couldn't understand anything that was written on it,

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Speaker 1: and it was like because all the instructions are in Russian,

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Speaker 1: all the buttons, and we tried to get it going

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Speaker 1: and it didn't work. And then we ended up using

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Speaker 1: one of those corg the microcorg that has a vocoder

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Speaker 1: setting on it and something that Warren Ellis swears by,

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Speaker 1: he uses it all the time, and so we got

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Speaker 1: this one and it was perfect to him. So but

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Speaker 1: that was that that that that was the one we

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Speaker 1: were trying to recreate. And then how did you how

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Speaker 1: did you make the song from there? Like romy, how

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Speaker 1: did when you heard it you thought, did something occurring

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Speaker 1: about playing it? Or well, I think if I remember correctly,

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Speaker 1: we kind of just like we we set up that microcord,

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Speaker 1: we got the boat, we got a boat carder going,

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Speaker 1: and then like pretty much everything else, we just sort

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Speaker 1: of Glenn started singing, singing those lines and thing, and

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Speaker 1: we all just kind of felt our way around it

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Speaker 1: and got some droning stuff going on. But yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: very very loose. Okay, this is massively putting you on

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Speaker 1: the spot. Could you do that now if Glenn started

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Speaker 1: playing something? Oh, that's the whole session is based on

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Speaker 1: the idea of here's a thought, you know, like let

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Speaker 1: me let me see okay, you know there could be

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Speaker 1: a song in that still no word, still still still

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Speaker 1: still haven't you know, still listening, still waiting, you've not

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Speaker 1: nothing's come back. So suddenly when you start playing that,

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Speaker 1: you get all these thoughts like, okay, so it's still

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Speaker 1: no word, it's the first thing that fell out of

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Speaker 1: your mouth. Then trust that and then follow that and

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Speaker 1: then just use that as a kind of a as

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Speaker 1: a kind of a tent pole to a bunch of thoughts.

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Speaker 1: You know, so, what is this? Why is there still

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00:19:08,076 --> 00:19:11,276
Speaker 1: and still no word for to who? Why are you waiting?

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Speaker 1: Do you need to wait? Is? Does your life depend

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Speaker 1: on hearing from whatever? Whoever this is? You know? And

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Speaker 1: then you suddenly your brain just starts coming and then

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Speaker 1: you find your and you you have to be you

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Speaker 1: have to allow yourself to go. Yeah. Yeah, that's the

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Speaker 1: key to writing is to allow mistakes, to allow dreadful

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Speaker 1: like I mean, we were changing I'm changing chords there

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Speaker 1: without informing anybody what's going on. There's definitely going to

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Speaker 1: be mistakes. We're gonna hit, we're going to bang into

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Speaker 1: each other, of course, But that's the that's the basis

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Speaker 1: of that's the basis of music. How long did it

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Speaker 1: take you to be comfortable enough to do that kind

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Speaker 1: of playing when you were a kid? Were you worried

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Speaker 1: about getting it right first and that that inhibited you

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Speaker 1: or were you always able to kind of just open

355
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Speaker 1: up that way? No, I don't think we're always able

356
00:19:56,916 --> 00:19:58,396
Speaker 1: to open up that way. You learned to play guitar

357
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Speaker 1: and of course, everything you know, when you learned to

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Speaker 1: play the guitar and any instrument, you want to get

359
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Speaker 1: it right. So every time you play a song, you

360
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Speaker 1: want to get it. You want to play it correctly,

361
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Speaker 1: you want to execute the song correctly. But it does

362
00:20:07,836 --> 00:20:10,076
Speaker 1: you do get to a place with musicians where you

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Speaker 1: find intimacy, and that intimacy is that you can completely

364
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Speaker 1: blow it. I mean, for years Joe has been listening

365
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Speaker 1: to me go wow, I will be a bad blah blah,

366
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Speaker 1: but you know, and then and then but when we

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00:20:19,316 --> 00:20:21,076
Speaker 1: got when we go on stage, there's a shape to that,

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00:20:21,156 --> 00:20:23,676
Speaker 1: and there's there's lyrics to that. But the lyrics don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily come as you as you're beginning. The lyrics can

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Speaker 1: sometimes you sometimes have to find your way into a

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Speaker 1: song and find your way into what it means. So

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Speaker 1: for instance, when we recorded Fools Game, I probably had

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Speaker 1: most of the most of the lyric kind of figured out,

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Speaker 1: but I was probably writing that song the whole way

375
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Speaker 1: through the session, you know. And again like walking around

376
00:20:41,676 --> 00:20:44,596
Speaker 1: Paris in between sessions, thinking about the song, listening to

377
00:20:44,716 --> 00:20:47,276
Speaker 1: the kind of the blah blah blah and the kind

378
00:20:47,316 --> 00:20:49,316
Speaker 1: of you know me, you know me, trying to find

379
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Speaker 1: something and kind of going, wow, I really see where

380
00:20:51,556 --> 00:20:52,996
Speaker 1: I was kind of trying to get it there. But

381
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Speaker 1: now that I'm outside of that moment where I have

382
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Speaker 1: the instrument in my hand, I know what I was

383
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Speaker 1: trying to say. I was trying to say this, and

384
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Speaker 1: so I write it down. So then I go back

385
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Speaker 1: and I know exactly what it was I was trying

386
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Speaker 1: to get. Well, they're trying to hide the vote quorder.

387
00:21:04,356 --> 00:21:08,436
Speaker 1: That's what I say. Keep going away from the voder.

388
00:21:08,636 --> 00:21:11,196
Speaker 1: He looks the thing. See anything that anything that takes

389
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Speaker 1: you out of your comfort, you know. So the vocoder

390
00:21:13,276 --> 00:21:15,356
Speaker 1: was really was really great because it takes you away

391
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Speaker 1: from a guy with a guitar in his hand, because that,

392
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Speaker 1: you know, I'm limited when it comes to me and

393
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Speaker 1: a guitar because I know the chords. I mean, I

394
00:21:22,116 --> 00:21:25,076
Speaker 1: know the chords. My brain will automatically go to one

395
00:21:25,116 --> 00:21:27,036
Speaker 1: of those chords because it knows the safety of what

396
00:21:27,156 --> 00:21:29,476
Speaker 1: that chord will bring. Whereas when you play with something

397
00:21:29,516 --> 00:21:31,236
Speaker 1: like a vocoder or even for me in my case,

398
00:21:31,276 --> 00:21:33,756
Speaker 1: a piano, like I'll hit a chord or I go WHOA,

399
00:21:33,836 --> 00:21:36,556
Speaker 1: what's that and it might actually be the you know,

400
00:21:36,876 --> 00:21:39,796
Speaker 1: the fourth to what I was doing. But because it

401
00:21:39,836 --> 00:21:42,396
Speaker 1: sounds so different than piano, I'm excited by it, whereas

402
00:21:42,396 --> 00:21:45,156
Speaker 1: I'm a playing on a guitar, I'm not. So you

403
00:21:45,236 --> 00:21:47,756
Speaker 1: can do you say you can almost know your instrument

404
00:21:47,796 --> 00:21:49,596
Speaker 1: too well. I think in a way you get you

405
00:21:49,636 --> 00:21:51,556
Speaker 1: can get into a route with your instrument because you know,

406
00:21:51,996 --> 00:21:54,236
Speaker 1: once you know how that chord relates to that chord,

407
00:21:54,676 --> 00:21:57,476
Speaker 1: you know you get locked into because you know, at

408
00:21:57,476 --> 00:21:59,756
Speaker 1: the end of the day, most music operates, most Western

409
00:21:59,916 --> 00:22:02,996
Speaker 1: music operates within a very simple you know what is

410
00:22:03,036 --> 00:22:05,116
Speaker 1: it the three five? But what I always it's a

411
00:22:05,196 --> 00:22:09,076
Speaker 1: Nashville thing, isn't it the one four? One four five?

412
00:22:09,316 --> 00:22:11,516
Speaker 1: That that idea that once we once we figure out

413
00:22:11,636 --> 00:22:14,196
Speaker 1: all of that, then it all becomes second nature. But

414
00:22:14,276 --> 00:22:15,956
Speaker 1: if you put yourself on an instrument, you don't know,

415
00:22:16,556 --> 00:22:18,036
Speaker 1: you might be doing the one four or five, but

416
00:22:18,076 --> 00:22:20,556
Speaker 1: it sounds amazing because you don't know what you're doing,

417
00:22:20,956 --> 00:22:22,756
Speaker 1: even though you might still be operating very much in

418
00:22:22,796 --> 00:22:27,236
Speaker 1: a very simple structure. And that's exciting. I mean, musicians

419
00:22:27,276 --> 00:22:32,356
Speaker 1: are artists are constantly seeking perspective shifts. That's why when

420
00:22:32,436 --> 00:22:35,876
Speaker 1: you read like you know, Colin's biography or whatever, you

421
00:22:35,916 --> 00:22:38,076
Speaker 1: know you kind of understand why he was taking man

422
00:22:38,156 --> 00:22:42,116
Speaker 1: tracks and speed at the same time, because perspective shift

423
00:22:42,236 --> 00:22:44,756
Speaker 1: is everything in writing. It's all about getting out of

424
00:22:44,796 --> 00:22:46,836
Speaker 1: your own head and literally getting out of your head,

425
00:22:46,876 --> 00:22:49,396
Speaker 1: I mean getting out of your own the place that

426
00:22:49,556 --> 00:22:54,156
Speaker 1: that restricts you to certain ideas. And you know, there's

427
00:22:54,156 --> 00:22:58,636
Speaker 1: a lot of romance around musicians use of drugs and

428
00:22:58,876 --> 00:23:01,916
Speaker 1: painters and poets use of drugs to find themselves in

429
00:23:02,076 --> 00:23:06,556
Speaker 1: a different headspace, because that's exactly that's precisely where where

430
00:23:06,676 --> 00:23:10,476
Speaker 1: things can can really and you can basically get out

431
00:23:10,476 --> 00:23:13,236
Speaker 1: of your own way. And that's that's always what you're

432
00:23:13,276 --> 00:23:14,916
Speaker 1: looking for. And that's what the vocoder can give you,

433
00:23:15,036 --> 00:23:17,276
Speaker 1: or what the playing an instrument you don't know can

434
00:23:17,316 --> 00:23:19,116
Speaker 1: give you. It gives you a perspective shift and you

435
00:23:19,196 --> 00:23:22,796
Speaker 1: can you can find yourself in a different spot. Did

436
00:23:22,796 --> 00:23:28,916
Speaker 1: you do play another song? Yeah, I'll let you take

437
00:23:28,956 --> 00:23:35,756
Speaker 1: a breath. Thanks. What was the experience that that led

438
00:23:35,796 --> 00:23:39,796
Speaker 1: to that song. I was sitting at the piano in

439
00:23:39,876 --> 00:23:42,716
Speaker 1: the studio and I was trying to record a song

440
00:23:42,756 --> 00:23:45,876
Speaker 1: called Shelter Me, a song that again didn't make the record.

441
00:23:45,916 --> 00:23:47,436
Speaker 1: A bunch of the songs that I went into record

442
00:23:47,516 --> 00:23:50,476
Speaker 1: didn't make the record. So I was sitting at the piano.

443
00:23:50,516 --> 00:23:52,556
Speaker 1: I was trying to record the song, and I had

444
00:23:52,596 --> 00:23:54,956
Speaker 1: this stick lid ding Dong dong Dong. I love that

445
00:23:55,076 --> 00:23:58,636
Speaker 1: dong Dong lid ding dong Dong Dong Dong dong Dong.

446
00:23:59,476 --> 00:24:00,996
Speaker 1: There's something about the way that was kind of just

447
00:24:01,156 --> 00:24:04,236
Speaker 1: flowing that bong bom. But it reminded me again like

448
00:24:04,316 --> 00:24:06,276
Speaker 1: the Stooges or something like the dong dong Dong. You know,

449
00:24:06,356 --> 00:24:08,476
Speaker 1: those are great velvet of the ground songs. I keep

450
00:24:08,516 --> 00:24:10,796
Speaker 1: coming back to them. Actually has but it's like congdang

451
00:24:10,836 --> 00:24:12,396
Speaker 1: dongg do you know when you get that sort of

452
00:24:12,476 --> 00:24:16,116
Speaker 1: constant piano banging. And because I don't know what I'm

453
00:24:16,156 --> 00:24:20,276
Speaker 1: doing in terms of the chords, again, I'm feeling quite

454
00:24:20,316 --> 00:24:23,796
Speaker 1: free and I remember kind of going I remember playing

455
00:24:23,876 --> 00:24:25,796
Speaker 1: the thing and and and there is a there is

456
00:24:25,796 --> 00:24:28,956
Speaker 1: a recording of that too. Let me find it. I'm

457
00:24:28,996 --> 00:24:30,556
Speaker 1: gonna find it for you because it's it's it's it's

458
00:24:30,596 --> 00:24:33,716
Speaker 1: worth hearing. Yeah, yeah, this is the very first moment.

459
00:24:34,396 --> 00:24:37,556
Speaker 1: In fact, I've got this for every single song, the

460
00:24:37,636 --> 00:24:39,876
Speaker 1: first moment, because that's how the whole record came together.

461
00:24:39,996 --> 00:24:42,156
Speaker 1: Let me just find it. I think we need the

462
00:24:42,516 --> 00:24:45,316
Speaker 1: we need the iPhone memos version of this. Yeah, it

463
00:24:45,436 --> 00:24:49,076
Speaker 1: would It would be interesting too, It would be interesting.

464
00:24:49,196 --> 00:24:53,716
Speaker 1: Let me see. Now, let them know what a free

465
00:24:54,996 --> 00:24:59,636
Speaker 1: there's no hard at least beat it. There's no world.

466
00:25:02,556 --> 00:25:07,716
Speaker 1: Maybe you have to meet them as equals one day.

467
00:25:14,676 --> 00:25:42,356
Speaker 1: Don't set up, don't shuttle m Go tell it from

468
00:25:42,396 --> 00:25:48,436
Speaker 1: the mountain. Go see we pass this way. Tell them

469
00:25:48,516 --> 00:25:53,316
Speaker 1: we came you as equals. Let don't know, we weren't friend.

470
00:25:55,036 --> 00:25:59,516
Speaker 1: Let them see we want together. Let them know what

471
00:25:59,676 --> 00:26:06,156
Speaker 1: it is. Time to think. Maybe he will do Maybe

472
00:26:06,276 --> 00:26:16,396
Speaker 1: you would be the way, maybe spattle. So there you go.

473
00:26:16,596 --> 00:26:18,716
Speaker 1: It's just a you know, you can just hear it.

474
00:26:18,836 --> 00:26:20,916
Speaker 1: You can hear the bones of an idea emerging out

475
00:26:20,956 --> 00:26:23,676
Speaker 1: of it. There's a touch of Imagine by John Lennon too,

476
00:26:23,756 --> 00:26:28,356
Speaker 1: in the in the Diddlin Yeah, and in the I

477
00:26:28,356 --> 00:26:36,396
Speaker 1: Don't want Yeah, that chord progression that see the yeah,

478
00:26:36,436 --> 00:26:38,996
Speaker 1: that's the yeah. That sounds like imagine. You're right, Yeah,

479
00:26:39,036 --> 00:26:41,876
Speaker 1: it's kind of nice. And because I don't know what

480
00:26:41,916 --> 00:26:43,676
Speaker 1: I'm doing, I don't know. I certainly don't know that

481
00:26:43,716 --> 00:26:45,796
Speaker 1: I'm referencing John Lennon, but I'm like, oh, that feels

482
00:26:45,796 --> 00:26:47,996
Speaker 1: like a nice way to get to the next chord. So,

483
00:26:48,156 --> 00:26:50,116
Speaker 1: and it's only where my fingers can reach, and you've

484
00:26:50,156 --> 00:26:53,316
Speaker 1: deliterally not learned the piano for that reason, it gives

485
00:26:53,356 --> 00:26:59,476
Speaker 1: you some I honestly, I honestly have strong feeling that

486
00:26:59,956 --> 00:27:02,516
Speaker 1: one must learn an instrument only enough to be able

487
00:27:02,556 --> 00:27:06,076
Speaker 1: to execute a song. That when you get it, when

488
00:27:06,076 --> 00:27:08,316
Speaker 1: you get into the minutia of music you can it's

489
00:27:08,436 --> 00:27:11,796
Speaker 1: it stops you creativity. I feel. I feel like I

490
00:27:11,956 --> 00:27:13,996
Speaker 1: only ever wanted to be a guitar player good enough

491
00:27:13,996 --> 00:27:16,596
Speaker 1: to play a song. I never wanted to progress and

492
00:27:16,636 --> 00:27:19,036
Speaker 1: become a really good lead guitar player, or or to

493
00:27:19,076 --> 00:27:21,556
Speaker 1: get into jazz chords, because once you learned the relationship

494
00:27:21,596 --> 00:27:24,396
Speaker 1: between all the chords, then you then you've got it mapped.

495
00:27:24,436 --> 00:27:26,916
Speaker 1: And once you've got it mapped, then then then you

496
00:27:27,076 --> 00:27:30,676
Speaker 1: start figuring out interesting paths. And once you find interesting paths,

497
00:27:31,116 --> 00:27:33,476
Speaker 1: it's like you know too much. So I love I

498
00:27:33,636 --> 00:27:36,716
Speaker 1: love having naivety on an instrument, like I love having

499
00:27:36,756 --> 00:27:39,716
Speaker 1: instruments that I don't know how to play. It's interesting.

500
00:27:39,796 --> 00:27:42,116
Speaker 1: We're in Nashville, which is probably the home of the

501
00:27:42,236 --> 00:27:46,436
Speaker 1: best players anywhere. We were talking about this earlier. We

502
00:27:46,476 --> 00:27:48,916
Speaker 1: could get fifty guitarists in here who would be the

503
00:27:49,036 --> 00:27:51,836
Speaker 1: best in any other city, and they're all right here. Yeah,

504
00:27:52,436 --> 00:27:55,116
Speaker 1: but you like that, you like not knowing things for me.

505
00:27:55,236 --> 00:27:58,156
Speaker 1: It's for me. It's crucial. Yeah, And it's crucial in

506
00:27:58,516 --> 00:28:00,956
Speaker 1: the in the in the writing process, because the writing

507
00:28:01,036 --> 00:28:04,716
Speaker 1: process can't be governed by the tuning or the or

508
00:28:04,796 --> 00:28:07,116
Speaker 1: the rhythm being right. It has to be you have

509
00:28:07,196 --> 00:28:09,956
Speaker 1: to be allowed to just you know, like you know,

510
00:28:11,436 --> 00:28:14,636
Speaker 1: music is not hygiene. It's it's it's dirty. It has

511
00:28:14,716 --> 00:28:17,076
Speaker 1: to be dirty. When we come back, we'll have more

512
00:28:17,156 --> 00:28:24,836
Speaker 1: with Glenn Hansard. We're back with Glenn Hansard. Bruce asked

513
00:28:24,876 --> 00:28:27,076
Speaker 1: him to pick a cover song to play for this taping,

514
00:28:27,236 --> 00:28:29,756
Speaker 1: and he picked one of my favorites from Joni Mitchell.

515
00:28:30,596 --> 00:28:33,356
Speaker 1: We've had people do a lot of covers. This strikes

516
00:28:33,396 --> 00:28:35,156
Speaker 1: me as the most unusual one. How long have you

517
00:28:35,276 --> 00:28:38,276
Speaker 1: been playing Coyote? Oh? And well, I learned it. I

518
00:28:38,356 --> 00:28:41,116
Speaker 1: mean I know the song for so long. I only

519
00:28:41,236 --> 00:28:44,316
Speaker 1: learned it and when I when we when I was

520
00:28:44,356 --> 00:28:47,756
Speaker 1: invited to play at Joni's seventy fifth or seventieth birthday party,

521
00:28:48,476 --> 00:28:50,516
Speaker 1: and I learned it formally, but I always knew it,

522
00:28:50,716 --> 00:28:52,276
Speaker 1: you know, It's it's a song that I would kind

523
00:28:52,276 --> 00:28:54,676
Speaker 1: of play a verse or two. But then sometimes you

524
00:28:54,796 --> 00:28:56,996
Speaker 1: formally learn a song as and you sit down and

525
00:28:57,036 --> 00:28:58,796
Speaker 1: you go, right, I need, I'm gonna learn this. So

526
00:28:58,836 --> 00:29:02,316
Speaker 1: I've known the song a long time, but I really

527
00:29:02,356 --> 00:29:04,876
Speaker 1: brushed it up and kind of learned my version. If

528
00:29:04,916 --> 00:29:07,036
Speaker 1: you like, were you a fan of hers? Oh god, yah,

529
00:29:07,436 --> 00:29:09,316
Speaker 1: I'm geez yeah, I mean since I was, you know,

530
00:29:09,476 --> 00:29:12,796
Speaker 1: that was the beginning of my musical My first Johnie

531
00:29:12,836 --> 00:29:14,676
Speaker 1: record was Hijera. I mean, that was the one that

532
00:29:14,756 --> 00:29:16,636
Speaker 1: I court and spark there were the records that got

533
00:29:16,716 --> 00:29:19,396
Speaker 1: me into her. It was only when I was older

534
00:29:19,476 --> 00:29:22,036
Speaker 1: I discovered Ladies of the Canyon and the earlier stuff,

535
00:29:22,036 --> 00:29:24,676
Speaker 1: which was amazing, and Blue, of course, but Blue wasn't

536
00:29:24,716 --> 00:29:26,236
Speaker 1: around when I was a kid. It was more the

537
00:29:26,636 --> 00:29:29,516
Speaker 1: kind of slightly jazzier stuff. She hadn't she hadn't gone

538
00:29:29,516 --> 00:29:31,836
Speaker 1: deep into the jazz thing yet. So Hijera is still

539
00:29:31,836 --> 00:29:35,116
Speaker 1: a kind of a record that's, you know, fairly accessible.

540
00:29:35,156 --> 00:29:37,556
Speaker 1: But no, that was the stuff that I grew up.

541
00:29:37,556 --> 00:29:40,116
Speaker 1: But she's a very intimidating person to cover. Though her

542
00:29:40,276 --> 00:29:44,836
Speaker 1: music is complicated, absolutely, it's deep. I remember having to

543
00:29:44,956 --> 00:29:47,396
Speaker 1: learn shadows and are getting to learn shadows and like,

544
00:29:48,476 --> 00:29:53,756
Speaker 1: and every picture has a shadow and it has some

545
00:29:54,076 --> 00:30:01,236
Speaker 1: form of like blindness, blindness and sad and then it

546
00:30:01,276 --> 00:30:04,636
Speaker 1: goes to a key change treadned by all things, God

547
00:30:04,716 --> 00:30:11,516
Speaker 1: of cruelty, true to the whole thing, God delay. You

548
00:30:11,596 --> 00:30:13,396
Speaker 1: know the way she the way her voice is moving around.

549
00:30:13,396 --> 00:30:14,676
Speaker 1: I had to figure out how to do that, and

550
00:30:14,756 --> 00:30:19,276
Speaker 1: that was completely outside of my melodic instinct, and so

551
00:30:19,476 --> 00:30:21,676
Speaker 1: it was really difficult, and I was so surprised how

552
00:30:21,796 --> 00:30:24,236
Speaker 1: the notes just wouldn't go into my head. And then

553
00:30:24,316 --> 00:30:25,876
Speaker 1: one day it's just a bam, and I went into

554
00:30:25,916 --> 00:30:27,556
Speaker 1: my head and I had them and I and I

555
00:30:27,676 --> 00:30:31,076
Speaker 1: had it. But it definitely made me a better musician overnight,

556
00:30:31,356 --> 00:30:33,196
Speaker 1: having to sit down and tackle some of her songs,

557
00:30:33,556 --> 00:30:36,076
Speaker 1: because she's this song in particular, which has always been

558
00:30:36,076 --> 00:30:40,316
Speaker 1: a favorite mine. It's a very tough, unsentimental, yeah song

559
00:30:40,716 --> 00:30:44,196
Speaker 1: with some incredibly memorable Oh my god. Yeah, it's an

560
00:30:44,276 --> 00:30:47,396
Speaker 1: amazing but it's also very much it's a woman's song, yeah,

561
00:30:47,396 --> 00:30:50,756
Speaker 1: but it's her song, absolutely written from the point of

562
00:30:50,796 --> 00:30:52,916
Speaker 1: view of someone who had this relationship. What's it like

563
00:30:52,996 --> 00:30:55,116
Speaker 1: to sing it? As a man. Oh, it's wonderful. It's

564
00:30:55,156 --> 00:30:56,676
Speaker 1: wonderful because you know, you're just trying to get in,

565
00:30:56,756 --> 00:30:58,876
Speaker 1: You're trying to get in the headspace where she was at.

566
00:30:59,876 --> 00:31:03,116
Speaker 1: And I love there's a there's a, there's a it's

567
00:31:03,156 --> 00:31:05,356
Speaker 1: a it's a the male and the sort of the

568
00:31:05,436 --> 00:31:08,276
Speaker 1: masculine and feminine in writing and in music and in life.

569
00:31:08,356 --> 00:31:11,036
Speaker 1: I find that fascinating to to move between both of

570
00:31:11,076 --> 00:31:14,516
Speaker 1: them and to try to inhabit both equally. And then

571
00:31:14,556 --> 00:31:16,676
Speaker 1: you did meet her when you when you performed this,

572
00:31:16,836 --> 00:31:19,076
Speaker 1: What was that like? Yeah, I met her. We shared

573
00:31:19,116 --> 00:31:21,956
Speaker 1: a dressing room actually, and it was a wonderful experience.

574
00:31:21,996 --> 00:31:24,636
Speaker 1: She was incredible, She was such and she gave me

575
00:31:25,276 --> 00:31:29,676
Speaker 1: such amazing advice. She spent time, she was very present.

576
00:31:29,876 --> 00:31:32,116
Speaker 1: I mean, it was one of those meetings where I

577
00:31:32,196 --> 00:31:34,556
Speaker 1: was going, God, I wish I wish I was recording

578
00:31:34,636 --> 00:31:37,076
Speaker 1: this because she's speaking so fast, and there's so much

579
00:31:37,156 --> 00:31:39,236
Speaker 1: going on, and her brain is operating at such a

580
00:31:39,476 --> 00:31:41,756
Speaker 1: high level that I wish I could I wish I

581
00:31:41,836 --> 00:31:44,516
Speaker 1: could go off and really absorb all this at a

582
00:31:44,596 --> 00:31:46,356
Speaker 1: later point, but I just had to keep up, and

583
00:31:46,476 --> 00:31:49,436
Speaker 1: I had an amazing, really amazing Do you remember any

584
00:31:49,476 --> 00:31:51,716
Speaker 1: advice she gave you. I was telling her a story

585
00:31:51,796 --> 00:31:55,196
Speaker 1: about about a homeless guy, I know, and I remember

586
00:31:55,236 --> 00:31:57,356
Speaker 1: her saying, you should rhyme that, you know, and and

587
00:31:57,476 --> 00:31:59,036
Speaker 1: that was she was like, you should rhyde that song.

588
00:31:59,076 --> 00:32:01,396
Speaker 1: And I said, that's that's an amazing way to look

589
00:32:01,436 --> 00:32:03,036
Speaker 1: at it. Well, that's what we do as writers. We

590
00:32:03,156 --> 00:32:05,556
Speaker 1: just rhyme our lives, you know, just write that story

591
00:32:05,676 --> 00:32:07,516
Speaker 1: is a good one. And so I just thought, what,

592
00:32:07,636 --> 00:32:10,396
Speaker 1: I'm amazing, what incredibly you know, the wisdom of just

593
00:32:10,596 --> 00:32:13,636
Speaker 1: rhyme it. You know, that's that's what we do, you know.

594
00:32:14,356 --> 00:32:16,676
Speaker 1: She she, you know, and she we spoke a little

595
00:32:16,676 --> 00:32:18,436
Speaker 1: bit about some of that. You know, we're talking about

596
00:32:18,476 --> 00:32:20,156
Speaker 1: Leonard and we were talking about Dylan and you know,

597
00:32:20,236 --> 00:32:22,636
Speaker 1: and she had very interesting perspectives on these people and

598
00:32:23,236 --> 00:32:25,196
Speaker 1: Neil Young and you know, for me, it was just

599
00:32:25,276 --> 00:32:28,636
Speaker 1: a very exciting time to not really stuff I can repeat,

600
00:32:28,996 --> 00:32:31,076
Speaker 1: you know, because it would just be outside of I mean,

601
00:32:31,116 --> 00:32:32,996
Speaker 1: nothing that she probably hasn't said and depressed anyway. But

602
00:32:33,156 --> 00:32:35,556
Speaker 1: but but it was fascinating to spend time with her

603
00:32:35,556 --> 00:32:38,396
Speaker 1: and talk about these greats. But she's the greatest, Yes,

604
00:32:38,636 --> 00:32:41,596
Speaker 1: she's incredible, and you know, she was very straight about that.

605
00:32:41,636 --> 00:32:44,236
Speaker 1: She was like, I'm as good as any of those motherfuckers.

606
00:32:46,916 --> 00:32:48,836
Speaker 1: And she's right, you know, I mean, it's like she's

607
00:32:49,036 --> 00:32:53,156
Speaker 1: she's absolutely she's giant. And I just really thank I

608
00:32:53,916 --> 00:32:58,036
Speaker 1: thank whatever good fortune and good you know, alignment of

609
00:32:58,116 --> 00:32:59,636
Speaker 1: stars or whatever it was that put me in a

610
00:32:59,716 --> 00:33:01,716
Speaker 1: room with her for for those couple of days, and

611
00:33:01,796 --> 00:33:03,876
Speaker 1: just to have been around. You know, when you're whenever

612
00:33:03,916 --> 00:33:08,036
Speaker 1: you're in the presence of mastery, everything changes, the air changes,

613
00:33:08,156 --> 00:33:10,276
Speaker 1: and so it's a it's a wonderful feeling to be

614
00:33:10,716 --> 00:33:14,356
Speaker 1: so close to somebody who really has gone deep, so deep. Well,

615
00:33:14,636 --> 00:33:17,116
Speaker 1: get us a little closer, all right. We haven't played

616
00:33:17,156 --> 00:33:21,316
Speaker 1: this together before, so we're just gonna weigh it. Did

617
00:33:21,396 --> 00:33:24,116
Speaker 1: we get that? Was it all right? Was it all right? Yeah?

618
00:33:24,356 --> 00:33:26,876
Speaker 1: I think we got it? Yeah? Yeah, okay, great, I

619
00:33:26,956 --> 00:33:32,076
Speaker 1: think it was all okay good. Glenn Hanser's album The

620
00:33:32,156 --> 00:33:34,636
Speaker 1: Wild Willing is available now, so be sure to go

621
00:33:34,796 --> 00:33:37,236
Speaker 1: check it out. You can head to broken record podcast

622
00:33:37,316 --> 00:33:39,276
Speaker 1: dot com to check out a playlist to put together

623
00:33:39,356 --> 00:33:42,236
Speaker 1: for this episode, including this new album and the Great

624
00:33:42,316 --> 00:33:45,516
Speaker 1: Queen song that he sampled. Broken Record is produced with

625
00:33:45,556 --> 00:33:49,396
Speaker 1: help from Jason Gambrell. Meoobell and Leah Rose. Our theme

626
00:33:49,476 --> 00:33:52,556
Speaker 1: music is by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.