WEBVTT - James Harding

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<v Speaker 1>You were listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.

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<v Speaker 1>Recently talking with friends about the type of movies we

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<v Speaker 1>liked most. My vote was for movies about journalism and newspapers,

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<v Speaker 1>His Girl Friday, Broadcast News, The Insider, and most of all,

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<v Speaker 1>all the President's Men. I don't need to watch a

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<v Speaker 1>movie to see my favorite journalist. I just call my

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<v Speaker 1>great friend James Harding, the youngest ever editor of The Times, Washington,

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<v Speaker 1>editor of the Financial Times, and head of BBC News.

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<v Speaker 1>In twenty eighteen, he found a Tortoise, an online news platform,

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<v Speaker 1>and his vision for the principle of responsible deep journalism

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<v Speaker 1>slow news in the age of high speed information overwhelmed.

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<v Speaker 1>Richard and I were committed supporters from the very first day,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was then that James and my names for

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<v Speaker 1>each other changed. I became missus Graham Catherine Graham of

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<v Speaker 1>the Washington Post, and he became Ben as in Ben Bradley,

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<v Speaker 1>her brave and brilliant editor. James and I speak often

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<v Speaker 1>about what's happening in the world, our families, what he's writing,

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<v Speaker 1>where he is going, and a lot more. Today we're

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<v Speaker 1>in the River Cafe to talk about food and memories.

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<v Speaker 1>Two friends, a journalist and a cook together. That's what

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<v Speaker 1>I call news, Ben. Why should I say James has

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<v Speaker 1>chosen a recipe for horse Readish to read today on

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<v Speaker 1>the podcast Why did you choose horse Readish?

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<v Speaker 2>Well? Before? Can I just tell you my favorite Missus

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<v Speaker 2>Graham story? Yes, So when I was in Washington, I

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<v Speaker 2>was with the fteam. I ended up meeting this couple. R. W.

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<v Speaker 2>Apple Junior. It was the Washington buwer chief of the

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<v Speaker 2>New York Times, Johnny Apple him and his wife was

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<v Speaker 2>Betsy Apple. It's absolutely extraordinary, kind of southern character. And

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<v Speaker 2>she was very good friends with Catherine Graham and they've

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<v Speaker 2>been friends, she told me at this dinner. They've been

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<v Speaker 2>friends for about eighty twenty years. And one day Missus

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<v Speaker 2>Graham and everyone in the Washington Post called her Missus Graham.

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<v Speaker 2>She was obviously the steel, the kind of backbone to

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<v Speaker 2>the paper all the way through Watergate. She'd called Betsy

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<v Speaker 2>and said, Betsy, we've been friends for a long time now,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe you'd like to start calling me kay And Betsy

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<v Speaker 2>Apple said, you know that's so lovely of uk. Of

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<v Speaker 2>course I'd be honored. Of course I'll call you k

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<v Speaker 2>and there was a pause and then she said, in public,

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<v Speaker 2>you're probably gonna want to still call me missus Graham.

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<v Speaker 2>And I always thought that was such a kind of

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<v Speaker 2>Washington moment. It was great, nice, right, you know your pa.

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<v Speaker 2>And I went back years later to interview Missus Graham.

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<v Speaker 2>She had this kind of salon, and I interviewed Ben Bradley.

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<v Speaker 2>I interviewed the two of them. So and Bradley had

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<v Speaker 2>so she was in her salon in Washington in Georgetown,

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<v Speaker 2>and he had an office up in the old Post building,

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<v Speaker 2>and by then he was no longer executive editor of

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<v Speaker 2>the paper, but he was still had a place there,

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<v Speaker 2>and he looked exactly like that Jason Robot's character and

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<v Speaker 2>all the President's men. And behind him he had a

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<v Speaker 2>cork board and he collected on his corkboard corrections and

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<v Speaker 2>errors in newspapers. He cut them out of newspapers and

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<v Speaker 2>he put them on and he read one out to

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<v Speaker 2>me that was like four hundred words long. It was

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<v Speaker 2>just a layer upon layer of mistake and error and

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<v Speaker 2>neglect and misjudgment. And I remember him talking about it

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<v Speaker 2>as if he was describing a martini. He's said at

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<v Speaker 2>the end, now that is a correction with a twist.

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<v Speaker 2>It was his ideal of it.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So let's read the recipe.

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<v Speaker 2>Horse radish sauce. One hundred grams of fresh horse radish

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<v Speaker 2>one tablespoon. Does it even qualify as a recipe? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>of course it is okay, good. One tablespoon of red

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<v Speaker 2>wine vinegar, one hundred and fifty milli liters of creme

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<v Speaker 2>fresh salt, and freshly ground pepper. There are only three

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<v Speaker 2>main ingredients in this source, so their quality is important.

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<v Speaker 2>Look for a horse radish route that is firm and clean,

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<v Speaker 2>free of cuts and deep lemishes. The white of the

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<v Speaker 2>flesh of the horse radish, the fresher it is. And

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<v Speaker 2>for the vinegar, we use vulpire vinegar made on an

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<v Speaker 2>estate in Tuscany. And the crome fresh adds creaminess and

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<v Speaker 2>balance to the sauce. The freshness of this source makes

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<v Speaker 2>all the difference compared to one in a jar.

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<v Speaker 1>There you go, So why have all the recipes thirty

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<v Speaker 1>seven years? Well, the least us thirty seven. Our first

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<v Speaker 1>cookbook was nineteen ninety four. But what you made you

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<v Speaker 1>think about using horse readish as a recipe.

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<v Speaker 2>So I've been lucky to come to the River Cafe,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you find yourself looking at this amazing menu

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<v Speaker 2>and every time doing that annoying thing to the brilliant

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<v Speaker 2>people who come and ask you for your order, looking

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<v Speaker 2>at the menu, thinking long and hard about what you're

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<v Speaker 2>going to have, deciding what you're going to have. The

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<v Speaker 2>person arrives, indecision strikes, You're in the grip of it,

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<v Speaker 2>and then eventually what happens is I'll order the beef

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<v Speaker 2>with the horse radish because of the horse radish, because

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<v Speaker 2>it's kind of creamy and strong and just irresistible. And

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<v Speaker 2>I've got a soft spot for condiments, all of those

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<v Speaker 2>pickles and chimneys and chili based, but horse radish is

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<v Speaker 2>one that is I'm sure there's a word for ruthie.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know what it is, that mixture of something

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<v Speaker 2>that is sweet and sharp and spicy all at the

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<v Speaker 2>same time. And yours is the best in the world,

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<v Speaker 2>the horse radish. And I say this having done the work.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I've really had a look at a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of horse radishes, and this horse, rightig horse is the best.

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<v Speaker 1>There you go, so we will go back to the

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<v Speaker 1>early days, as we could start at the beginning. You

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<v Speaker 1>grew up in a household in North London.

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<v Speaker 2>So on my father's side, my family came from Germany

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<v Speaker 2>with German Jews in thirty six Berlin with family's Hirshevitz.

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<v Speaker 2>My grandmother Elsie, my daughter's called Elsie. My grandmother Elsie

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<v Speaker 2>was this incredibly strong character, pulled everyone together. The family table,

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<v Speaker 2>the Friday night table, was incredibly important place. The food

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<v Speaker 2>was terrible. She was sure, We completely sure. You can

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<v Speaker 2>ask all members of the family. It's one of those

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<v Speaker 2>family facts, you know, there are very few things that

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<v Speaker 2>all families can agree on, but the fact that granny's

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<v Speaker 2>food was just terrible. She was a big smoker, eighty

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<v Speaker 2>to one hundred and twenty a day, silk cut and

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<v Speaker 2>she would cook with the cigarette and the ash would

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<v Speaker 2>just bend slowly dipping. Would it fall into the boiling

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<v Speaker 2>pot of tongue that she was cooking, Yes, yes it

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<v Speaker 2>would fall. And so you would watch this whole thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you think she didn't want to cook?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think she was.

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<v Speaker 3>She probably didn't want well, it sounds like a cracking woman,

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<v Speaker 3>you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe she was an amazing woman. So her story was

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<v Speaker 2>that she wanted to be a journalist, she wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>be a journalist, and actually at home I have her

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<v Speaker 2>old Erica typewriter next to my desk. In thirty three,

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<v Speaker 2>when the Nazis came in, one of the first things

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<v Speaker 2>they did was bar Jews from working in journalism, and

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<v Speaker 2>so she left in thirty six. And she definitely would

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<v Speaker 2>have been one of those journalists who was a great

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<v Speaker 2>eater rather than a great feeder. She was someone who

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<v Speaker 2>cared a lot about ideas and opinions and politics, and

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<v Speaker 2>she had loads of that of her own. But you're right,

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<v Speaker 2>she didn't love the cooking front off. On my mom's side,

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<v Speaker 2>my mother's family were where Jews had gone from Manchester

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<v Speaker 2>to Cape Town. My great grandfather had had tb they

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<v Speaker 2>moved there to South Africa. That side of the family

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<v Speaker 2>were really really lovers of food, of cooking and cakes

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<v Speaker 2>and fruit and my mum, to my great good fortune,

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<v Speaker 2>is an amazing cook. Yeah, I met wonderful cook and

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<v Speaker 2>all of those sweet things you know, as I said,

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<v Speaker 2>chocolate cakes and fruitcakes and sponges, but also chickens and

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<v Speaker 2>casseroles and soups, and that you can even hear in

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<v Speaker 2>my voice that feeling of just being taken care of

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<v Speaker 2>by food.

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<v Speaker 3>Your father is a very well known doctor. Tell me

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<v Speaker 3>about him.

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<v Speaker 2>Funny and alive and interested is everything in food. Loves food,

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<v Speaker 2>but I would say loves meals with people even more.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and did he ever cook? Did your male ever

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<v Speaker 1>go into your kitchen or did your father he was.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember, I don't remember much. The moment that I

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<v Speaker 2>remember with my dad around the stove was I slipped

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<v Speaker 2>trying to climb over a barbed wire fence when I

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<v Speaker 2>was I can't remember, like six, seven eight. And I

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<v Speaker 2>remember my dad had made us breakfast scrambled eggs every day.

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<v Speaker 2>He made no this was just this was a Saturday morning,

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<v Speaker 2>I think, and I'd gashed my throat. There was a

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<v Speaker 2>cut under my throat and it needed stitches. And I

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<v Speaker 2>remember my dad swashing out the pot from the scrambled eggs,

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<v Speaker 2>boiling the water to sterilize the suitures, and then stitching

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<v Speaker 2>me up on the kitchen table. I remember thinking that's

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<v Speaker 2>quite that's quite a lot of use of the pot

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<v Speaker 2>in the morning. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So you grew up in.

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<v Speaker 1>A house where food from your grandparents, whether were your

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<v Speaker 1>grandmother is a great cook or not, but there was

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<v Speaker 1>food and discussion and around the table.

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<v Speaker 3>Would you come home from school? How many similars my sister?

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<v Speaker 2>So, my sister and would sit there and would have

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<v Speaker 2>supper together, remembery.

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<v Speaker 3>A typical dinner in your house, would you?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes? We were talk because I'm sure that now that

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<v Speaker 2>our kids, we've got two thirteen and eleven, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think you're always re remembering, idealizing a version of a

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<v Speaker 2>dinner that may have actually only happened twice in your

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<v Speaker 2>entire teenage years. But the idea of sitting at the

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<v Speaker 2>table eating, And the one thing that is absolutely repeating

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<v Speaker 2>is that my parents were endlessly exhausted and frustrated by

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<v Speaker 2>my table manners, and that turns out to be hereditary.

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<v Speaker 2>So was that painful?

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<v Speaker 3>Did they sit at the table and correct you the

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<v Speaker 3>whole thing? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>That's I had a French friend and I said, you

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<v Speaker 1>have the most incredible pasture, you sort of say, and

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<v Speaker 1>she said, and I said, that's great.

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<v Speaker 3>How did your parents do it?

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<v Speaker 1>And she said, I have only terrible memories of my

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<v Speaker 1>childhood because every meal I had to sit up straight.

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<v Speaker 3>I ended up with good pasture. But I really don't.

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<v Speaker 1>Like sitting down to dinner anymore. But I can't imagine

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<v Speaker 1>it was that bad.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't bad at all. It wasn't bad at all.

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<v Speaker 2>It was just sort of like having the radio on,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. It was that was the noise. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think with my kids it's the same. So.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and when you left this cocoon of a home

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<v Speaker 1>being for and then you were at Cambridge, Yes, and

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<v Speaker 1>was that a shark?

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<v Speaker 2>It was incredible shock just I mean, you know, have

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<v Speaker 2>you ever just driven up there? In part? I remember

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<v Speaker 2>standing in front of the college and it looked like

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<v Speaker 2>a palace, you know, it was just an amazing place

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<v Speaker 2>and the But I don't associate it with food. I

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<v Speaker 2>associate it with architecture and light and trees and obviously

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<v Speaker 2>people overwhelming with people and a pub with beer and crisps,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and a lot of hanging about. But I

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<v Speaker 2>don't It's funny, actually, I can't think of time in

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<v Speaker 2>my life where I think less about food.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think you're not alone. So you were, you

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<v Speaker 1>were writing at that time.

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<v Speaker 2>It was ninety two, so it was a weird time. Actually,

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<v Speaker 2>people looking for work, you know, coming out of university

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't easy, and there was this amaz program to go

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<v Speaker 2>and learn Japanese and I learned, I learned Japanese. They

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<v Speaker 2>were there was a rather wonderful, eccentric man who'd run

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<v Speaker 2>a big Japanese firm who'd set up this scholarship program,

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<v Speaker 2>and there were seven of us. We all learned Japanese

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<v Speaker 2>for a year at SOAS and then went out to

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<v Speaker 2>work in Tokyo for a year. And I was just

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely life changing because you'd suddenly seen the world in

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<v Speaker 2>a completely different way. The start of it was a

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<v Speaker 2>homestay and there was the first experience of food.

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<v Speaker 3>Different domestic Japanese food.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't I don't. While I was at university, I

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<v Speaker 2>did a number of trips which really threw me into

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<v Speaker 2>a world of different food. I'd i'd done my first

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<v Speaker 2>real piece of journalism. I'd gone into Pakistan and into

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<v Speaker 2>southern Afghanistan. I remember eating kind of wobbly white sheet

0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.640
<v Speaker 2>fat out of a pile of rice and thinking, Okay,

0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:01.160
<v Speaker 2>this is different. And then I remember arriving in Japan,

0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.000
<v Speaker 2>going on this home stay up in Kusher, up in Hokkaido,

0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:07.800
<v Speaker 2>and thinking, okay, this is really a different breakfast we

0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.520
<v Speaker 2>are into for Japanese. So they would they would give

0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.040
<v Speaker 2>us a thing called NATO, which was a sort of fermented,

0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.880
<v Speaker 2>very fermented bean, and you'd have it with rice. It

0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:21.600
<v Speaker 2>was very sticky, it had a really pungent smell to it,

0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:23.600
<v Speaker 2>and front enough, you know, I'm sitting here in your

0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.480
<v Speaker 2>cheese rooms. It's the equivalent of taking a Japanese person

0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:31.080
<v Speaker 2>to the cheese room, the most painful and unfound and welcome,

0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.920
<v Speaker 2>but for breakfast. But then you sort of, you kind

0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:35.600
<v Speaker 2>of nearly got into it, and you sort of were

0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.319
<v Speaker 2>getting into it to impress your Japanese hosts. But as

0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.080
<v Speaker 2>soon as you could do anything like toast, you were

0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:43.040
<v Speaker 2>back for that. So Japan changed the way.

0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.679
<v Speaker 1>I ate tell me more about food in Tokyo. So

0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.640
<v Speaker 1>you were give us a job to work, so I had.

0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:51.120
<v Speaker 2>So what you did is you went to go and

0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:55.080
<v Speaker 2>learn Japanese in the morning, and then we were all

0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.480
<v Speaker 2>placed in a different place of work. I worked in

0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.840
<v Speaker 2>the office of a politician, the Chief Cabinet Secretary of Japan,

0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:04.719
<v Speaker 2>a guy called Kato Koichi, And I remember the first

0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:08.000
<v Speaker 2>day arriving, and it was one political scandal after another.

0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.840
<v Speaker 2>I arrived in my office building and there were police

0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.800
<v Speaker 2>fans outside the office building because one of the kingmakers

0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:19.360
<v Speaker 2>of the Japanese political party, the LDP had been found

0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.800
<v Speaker 2>to have bars of gold in his desk. Draw that

0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.120
<v Speaker 2>it was. It was that, but I spent a year there.

0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:30.400
<v Speaker 2>There was a hierarchy of duties. The most important to

0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:35.400
<v Speaker 2>them was probably photocopying and tea. And then sometimes I

0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:39.160
<v Speaker 2>pretend that it was really not very hard. It was

0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:41.720
<v Speaker 2>pull the boiling water in. But I but I did

0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:46.000
<v Speaker 2>go and do things, some of those things you'd expect.

0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:52.320
<v Speaker 2>The tea, but food was an incredibly important part of

0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.280
<v Speaker 2>life in Japan because the days were very, very long.

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.480
<v Speaker 2>The office days went often until sort of eleven midnight.

0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.920
<v Speaker 2>You'd have these late night meetings with Japanese journalists. So

0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:07.000
<v Speaker 2>the Chief Cabinet Secretary ran background briefings with in effect,

0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:12.760
<v Speaker 2>the Tokyo political reporting teams, and they would come to

0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.240
<v Speaker 2>his flat, and my job was to serve the tea

0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:18.960
<v Speaker 2>and hang up the coats and then just sit and listen.

0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:25.120
<v Speaker 2>And it was an absolutely fascinating window on Japanese politics.

0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.040
<v Speaker 2>And then occasionally I would be asked to write a

0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.040
<v Speaker 2>short speech in English, which felt very grand.

0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.960
<v Speaker 3>So it's an immersion, isn't it. It's a complete immersion.

0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:38.440
<v Speaker 2>It's an emersion, and also it was a very strong

0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:42.760
<v Speaker 2>food and drinking culture in the office. Well, so the

0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:47.280
<v Speaker 2>day would end and then us know, what would happen

0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:49.400
<v Speaker 2>was that we'd leave the office at about eight and

0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.920
<v Speaker 2>we would then all get taken out to eat and drink.

0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.720
<v Speaker 2>You know, the boss either takebisan or USN would take

0:15:55.760 --> 0:16:00.000
<v Speaker 2>you out, and we'd be taken either to Chinese restaurants

0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.840
<v Speaker 2>or Japanese restaurants, and depending who was there. And it's

0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.160
<v Speaker 2>such a culture of eating out. You know. Actually, I

0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:08.840
<v Speaker 2>think in the year that I was there, I was

0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.800
<v Speaker 2>probably invited into someone else's home to eat once, but

0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.840
<v Speaker 2>you'd be invited out to eat all the time. And

0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:19.360
<v Speaker 2>you'd eat in these incredible places, and that's where you

0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.160
<v Speaker 2>discovered everything. And you'd see these sushi places that fullgoul

0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, that kind of fish the supposedly so it's

0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.480
<v Speaker 2>a puffer fish, and it's famously poisonous if you cut

0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:31.240
<v Speaker 2>it up wrong, but if you cut it up right,

0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:35.360
<v Speaker 2>it's very delicate. All of these incredible treats, but then

0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:39.120
<v Speaker 2>also an enormous amount of drinking beer and Missleworry Witten

0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.280
<v Speaker 2>whisky and water, all of that, and that was a

0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:47.840
<v Speaker 2>whole lifestyle. I was twenty two. They couldn't believe it.

0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:50.640
<v Speaker 2>And then you would sort of kind of wheel home,

0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, because even after the thing finished, you then

0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:55.840
<v Speaker 2>go for a few drinks, and then you'd stop at

0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.360
<v Speaker 2>home on the way home for a bowl of ramen

0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.760
<v Speaker 2>miso ramen. That was the sort of thing that more

0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.640
<v Speaker 2>or less kept you from getting a cold and did

0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:06.159
<v Speaker 2>a little bit to help you out with a hangover

0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:06.760
<v Speaker 2>the next.

0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:10.159
<v Speaker 3>By that time, it would time, and then you'd be

0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:11.160
<v Speaker 3>in the office.

0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Not that eight thirty. Yeah, yeah, I mean in the office,

0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:17.879
<v Speaker 2>you know, in charge of the photocopying machine. So I

0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:19.400
<v Speaker 2>don't think it was going to.

0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:23.840
<v Speaker 1>Get I don't quite believe that. But so that you're right,

0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:25.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm not I was in charge.

0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:27.520
<v Speaker 3>I sell you.

0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.600
<v Speaker 1>But did you travel all of chapas regional food with

0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.639
<v Speaker 1>the food in the north different from the food in

0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:35.280
<v Speaker 1>the south, And did you go.

0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.679
<v Speaker 2>To the mountains killing Yeah, so in the north it

0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:40.480
<v Speaker 2>was up in the island, it was it was much

0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.639
<v Speaker 2>more of those kind of soups and noodles. But I

0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:47.199
<v Speaker 2>then came back from Japan, I got a job at

0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.840
<v Speaker 2>the ft That was the sort of nineteen ninety four

0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.600
<v Speaker 2>ninety six, I went to China, and that was essentially

0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.159
<v Speaker 2>three years and a bit of just eating. And then

0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:00.520
<v Speaker 2>that was my only job, finding off working in restaurant.

0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:02.200
<v Speaker 3>Come to think of it, you worked in a restaurant.

0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.960
<v Speaker 2>I worked in the village restaurant in Shanghai. I did.

0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.399
<v Speaker 2>It was a very interesting thing, thinking back on China

0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:13.440
<v Speaker 2>then and China now. The chef in a village restaurant,

0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:15.840
<v Speaker 2>or the owner of the village restaurant. I went to

0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.520
<v Speaker 2>her restaurant. She is wonderful and warm and welcoming, and

0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:21.439
<v Speaker 2>I said, how does it work? And she took me

0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:25.199
<v Speaker 2>into the kitchen at the back, and there was this

0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:29.280
<v Speaker 2>amazing chef kind of just drumming these huge blades, these

0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.200
<v Speaker 2>huge chopping knives, and I thought, I would love to

0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:33.920
<v Speaker 2>learn how to do that, how just to get those

0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.760
<v Speaker 2>wrists moving at that speed. And so they had me

0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:38.760
<v Speaker 2>in and I learned to cook. One thing. I learned

0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.520
<v Speaker 2>to cook snake soup. I mean when I say I

0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:43.560
<v Speaker 2>worked in a restaurant, I worked in a restaurant. I

0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:46.000
<v Speaker 2>worked in a restaurant for I would like say, six hours,

0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:51.520
<v Speaker 2>but they would probably say forty five minutes.

0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:57.000
<v Speaker 1>Imagine a state bottled olive oil chosen and bottled for

0:18:57.040 --> 0:19:00.920
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0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:04.920
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0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:08.480
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0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.840
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0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:15.119
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0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:31.399
<v Speaker 3>Now do you think food and journalism and food and writing?

0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.959
<v Speaker 1>And food is a revelation to both the culture you're in,

0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.359
<v Speaker 1>the city you're in, the government that you're in. It

0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:42.240
<v Speaker 1>tells you know, the culture of a country is told

0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:44.320
<v Speaker 1>by the food and the way it's prepared and the

0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:44.960
<v Speaker 1>way it's.

0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:46.359
<v Speaker 3>Even going to a market.

0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:48.119
<v Speaker 1>I always say to people and they go to Venice,

0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:50.360
<v Speaker 1>they say where should I go first? Should I go

0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.200
<v Speaker 1>to the academy or as I go to a market,

0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:56.159
<v Speaker 1>go to the rialito and see whether they shout, or

0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:58.679
<v Speaker 1>whether they serve, or whether they wrap it up or

0:19:58.680 --> 0:19:59.800
<v Speaker 1>whether they're don't.

0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.320
<v Speaker 2>You think, oh my God, tell me so. My nephew

0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:06.040
<v Speaker 2>Alpha is a chef and he's just got a job

0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.399
<v Speaker 2>going to work in Japan. He flies into Tokyo and

0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.200
<v Speaker 2>he had the jobs front off. He's going to be

0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.399
<v Speaker 2>a pizza chef, head chef in a restaurant making pizza

0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:20.560
<v Speaker 2>in the Japanese mountains. He's got one day in Tokyo.

0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:23.400
<v Speaker 2>I thought, there's only one thing to go and see

0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:27.920
<v Speaker 2>ski gee the fish market. Yeah, and that's the place

0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:29.720
<v Speaker 2>you would want to you'd want to go, I mean,

0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:32.280
<v Speaker 2>and I think you're right. Markets are the place. But

0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:36.440
<v Speaker 2>in China, China and Italy in that sense are the same.

0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:44.480
<v Speaker 2>The conversation is food and the way in which you

0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:47.919
<v Speaker 2>you know that. I'm going to spare your listeners my

0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:50.840
<v Speaker 2>terrible Chinese. But it's the very fact that the greeting

0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.440
<v Speaker 2>in Chinese was always have you eaten?

0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:54.240
<v Speaker 3>Really?

0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:00.120
<v Speaker 2>That was your hello. And the interesting thing was that

0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:05.440
<v Speaker 2>regional food you talked about all the time, all the time,

0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:07.719
<v Speaker 2>every way you went to you know, what was what

0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:09.480
<v Speaker 2>you ate in Shinyang was different from what you ate

0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.040
<v Speaker 2>in Kunming, what you ate in Shanghai was obviously totally

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:16.080
<v Speaker 2>different from Beijing, and it meant something incredibly important. And

0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:18.320
<v Speaker 2>today if you meet anyone from any of those places

0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:21.440
<v Speaker 2>and you talk about those foods. I mean, and it

0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.040
<v Speaker 2>was also I think I think true about politics, and

0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:27.359
<v Speaker 2>I think I think it's more true than we think

0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:33.439
<v Speaker 2>about the way we conceive of our society and our

0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:39.080
<v Speaker 2>politics too. I went to a talk by Chimamundan Goziadice,

0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:44.280
<v Speaker 2>the Nigerian author, but she said something incredible at the

0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:46.760
<v Speaker 2>end of this talk at the Royal Academy, which was

0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:49.080
<v Speaker 2>and there was a whole talk about the origins of

0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:52.600
<v Speaker 2>being a writer, but her very last line, Ruthie was

0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:59.280
<v Speaker 2>and remember, dignity is always as important as food. And

0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:01.879
<v Speaker 2>I thought to myself, if you were to try and

0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:07.680
<v Speaker 2>distill a great philosophy around politics, I would probably go

0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.440
<v Speaker 2>for dignity is always as important as food, and food

0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:13.479
<v Speaker 2>is always as important as dignity. But it's quite a

0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:14.800
<v Speaker 2>just distillation of everything.

0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:19.320
<v Speaker 1>But you were in Afghanistan, You're going to ask two opposite.

0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:24.200
<v Speaker 1>When you're in Afghanistan and Pakistan and you were working

0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:27.760
<v Speaker 1>as a report, did you have a fearful of food?

0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:31.840
<v Speaker 3>Were you hungry? Do you have days?

0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:35.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, But that's I mean, that was that that

0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:38.520
<v Speaker 2>happened occasionally, But I wasn't No, I wasn't fearful.

0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:42.120
<v Speaker 3>Were you ever in a zone where people were food denied?

0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:45.239
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I've been in places and that and that is

0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:50.640
<v Speaker 2>there northern Pakistan, there were huge refugee camps were there.

0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:57.080
<v Speaker 2>I mean actually as a reporter in many places, and

0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:01.680
<v Speaker 2>I think that that I remember traveling up through southern

0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:07.639
<v Speaker 2>Africa and then flying from there to France, and I

0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:11.840
<v Speaker 2>find that, as everyone does, incredibly difficult. You just can't

0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:16.720
<v Speaker 2>make sense of it. You know, I remember going to

0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:19.320
<v Speaker 2>Gaza the first time. You know that all of those things,

0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:24.359
<v Speaker 2>it's really you know, there's nothing you can say about

0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:28.600
<v Speaker 2>it that doesn't sound either kind of glob or simplistic,

0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:32.000
<v Speaker 2>but it's it's really hard to make sense of and

0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:36.000
<v Speaker 2>live with. And in China, I think that's the curious thing.

0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:39.879
<v Speaker 2>So when I was in China and at mid nineties,

0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:45.800
<v Speaker 2>that whole experience of the Great Leap Forward and the

0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:50.800
<v Speaker 2>famine and hungry ghosts that was within touching distance. People

0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:55.320
<v Speaker 2>had memories of that and it had affected their families

0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:58.720
<v Speaker 2>and their and their parents. And so the period that

0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:03.760
<v Speaker 2>I lived in China was this just incredible explosion of

0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:07.520
<v Speaker 2>excitement and optimism and food. You know, in Shanghai, restaurants

0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:10.000
<v Speaker 2>were opening all the time. People were going out in

0:24:10.040 --> 0:24:12.240
<v Speaker 2>a way that they never had and obviously now that

0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:16.320
<v Speaker 2>then became commonplace. But living in a country, when it

0:24:16.400 --> 0:24:21.560
<v Speaker 2>takes off and the experience people have around food and

0:24:21.600 --> 0:24:25.720
<v Speaker 2>the joy and pleasure of eating and meals together, it's

0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:27.040
<v Speaker 2>an amazing thing to win us.

0:24:27.359 --> 0:24:30.240
<v Speaker 3>And what about the opposite, When you went to Washington.

0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:32.760
<v Speaker 1>And then you were thrust into the world of American food,

0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:36.320
<v Speaker 1>does that stay with you, that experience of when were

0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:36.920
<v Speaker 1>you in Washington.

0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:39.280
<v Speaker 2>I was in Washington in the early two thousands, so

0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:42.480
<v Speaker 2>I was in Washington just after nine to eleven, through

0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:47.000
<v Speaker 2>Bush the Bush Kerry election and into two thousand and five.

0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:50.200
<v Speaker 2>When I think of food in the States, I think

0:24:50.240 --> 0:24:53.399
<v Speaker 2>of food almost everywhere but Washington. So I think of

0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:57.040
<v Speaker 2>kind of meatloaf in New Hampshire or going down into

0:24:57.320 --> 0:24:59.959
<v Speaker 2>you know, Gumbo and Louisiana, these things that are real.

0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:02.359
<v Speaker 2>But again, the US in that sense is quite a

0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:05.000
<v Speaker 2>lot like China. It also has foods that it's really

0:25:05.040 --> 0:25:09.080
<v Speaker 2>proud of Washington food, those sort of steaks in the

0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:12.280
<v Speaker 2>Capitol Grill, and that sense, I mean that there was

0:25:12.280 --> 0:25:14.639
<v Speaker 2>a particular restaurant called the Capitol Grill. It was dark

0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:16.719
<v Speaker 2>and it was furnished like it was a set from

0:25:16.760 --> 0:25:22.480
<v Speaker 2>our Hollywood movie about Washington restaurant, and you know, people

0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:26.280
<v Speaker 2>lobbying and being lobbied. It's not a very it's not

0:25:26.359 --> 0:25:32.520
<v Speaker 2>a very romantic restaurant scene. Mexico, Oh my god, Mexico City.

0:25:32.560 --> 0:25:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Do you remember that restaurant? We went to Contromar count tomorrow.

0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:37.600
<v Speaker 3>We spent those one of the We sat there.

0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:40.480
<v Speaker 2>For hours, hours and hours. Now, that is one of

0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:43.399
<v Speaker 2>the great restaurant cultures in the world. That you go there.

0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:48.880
<v Speaker 2>I agree Friday afternoon, arrived two, maybe three, possibly even

0:25:48.920 --> 0:25:51.200
<v Speaker 2>four o'clock in the afternoon and have lunch from four

0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:53.720
<v Speaker 2>till nine. I thought that was amazing.

0:25:53.800 --> 0:25:55.000
<v Speaker 3>I love the Mexico say.

0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:57.120
<v Speaker 1>I love the way the Mexicans have a very late

0:25:57.160 --> 0:25:59.439
<v Speaker 1>breakfast and they have lunch at four and then they

0:25:59.440 --> 0:26:00.720
<v Speaker 1>have an apple for dinner.

0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:03.600
<v Speaker 2>And they're all finished at about and they finished at

0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:07.080
<v Speaker 2>And also think what's interesting there was when I was there,

0:26:07.440 --> 0:26:10.000
<v Speaker 2>they also don't ask you what you do. Like the

0:26:10.119 --> 0:26:12.199
<v Speaker 2>culture of lunch. If there's a whole culture, like the

0:26:12.240 --> 0:26:15.760
<v Speaker 2>way you talk to people, and it's so it's much

0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:17.840
<v Speaker 2>less transactional and much more social.

0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:25.800
<v Speaker 1>The River Cafe Winter you said, Lunch is now running

0:26:25.800 --> 0:26:30.760
<v Speaker 1>from Monday to Thursday, reserve a booking a www. Rivercafe

0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:40.159
<v Speaker 1>dot co dot uk or give us a call. So Tortoise,

0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:42.720
<v Speaker 1>I would like to talk because do you feel that

0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:45.320
<v Speaker 1>with starting this vision it's a bit like starting a

0:26:45.359 --> 0:26:47.679
<v Speaker 1>family or building a home that you had an idea

0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:50.760
<v Speaker 1>of how you wanted people to eat or to have

0:26:50.880 --> 0:26:51.760
<v Speaker 1>time to eat.

0:26:52.960 --> 0:26:57.080
<v Speaker 2>To have time to eat is really key and I

0:26:57.119 --> 0:27:01.600
<v Speaker 2>think being honest about caring about food. So if there's

0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:04.040
<v Speaker 2>an all night election coming up, we talk a lot

0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:05.919
<v Speaker 2>about what are we going to eat? Yeah, you know,

0:27:05.960 --> 0:27:09.040
<v Speaker 2>the whole idea of taught us was how would you

0:27:10.000 --> 0:27:13.359
<v Speaker 2>get away from this torrent of news and information and

0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:15.639
<v Speaker 2>stop and think and try and make sense of what

0:27:15.720 --> 0:27:17.359
<v Speaker 2>was happening in the world. And the best way you

0:27:17.359 --> 0:27:19.160
<v Speaker 2>were going to do that was to have a conversation.

0:27:19.640 --> 0:27:21.720
<v Speaker 2>And as we said, some of the best conversations are

0:27:22.400 --> 0:27:24.320
<v Speaker 2>around a table, and the best thing to have on

0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:28.040
<v Speaker 2>the table is food. And so we're very interested in

0:27:28.119 --> 0:27:31.240
<v Speaker 2>food as a way of bringing people together, and sometimes

0:27:31.280 --> 0:27:34.960
<v Speaker 2>it's been really deliberate. So you know, recently we were

0:27:35.320 --> 0:27:37.520
<v Speaker 2>trying to get a better understanding of what's really happening

0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:39.240
<v Speaker 2>in Iran and to try to bring a whole group

0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:42.800
<v Speaker 2>of people, and we're really lucky. You know, a brilliant

0:27:42.840 --> 0:27:46.919
<v Speaker 2>Persian chef came and cooked a whole night. It was

0:27:47.160 --> 0:27:50.960
<v Speaker 2>absolutely incredible. Tell me, it was just actually fine enough.

0:27:50.960 --> 0:27:53.080
<v Speaker 2>It was Someone had said to me, look, no one

0:27:53.119 --> 0:27:56.120
<v Speaker 2>really covers Iran, which is true. There's a context, there's

0:27:56.480 --> 0:27:59.879
<v Speaker 2>there's Iran coverage because it's very difficult. It's very difficult

0:28:00.119 --> 0:28:02.280
<v Speaker 2>post anyone to Tehran. I tried for a long time

0:28:02.320 --> 0:28:07.080
<v Speaker 2>at the BBC. But also if you think about it,

0:28:07.160 --> 0:28:09.280
<v Speaker 2>if you think about what's going on in terms of

0:28:09.600 --> 0:28:13.719
<v Speaker 2>human rights and the politics of Iran, actually the focus

0:28:13.760 --> 0:28:18.000
<v Speaker 2>and the attention paid is minimal. So someone said, let's

0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:19.960
<v Speaker 2>have a conversation about Iran. Let's bring together a whole

0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:24.160
<v Speaker 2>bunch of journalists and commentators and people with points of view.

0:28:24.760 --> 0:28:28.760
<v Speaker 2>And then she said, rather wonderfully, wouldn't this be much

0:28:28.800 --> 0:28:31.800
<v Speaker 2>better over a really good Persian dinner? And of course

0:28:32.119 --> 0:28:34.800
<v Speaker 2>it was. And I think there's something interesting, Ruthie, about

0:28:35.160 --> 0:28:40.360
<v Speaker 2>news and polarization and food, because I think there's a

0:28:40.880 --> 0:28:46.840
<v Speaker 2>sense among some people that the world is more polarized

0:28:46.840 --> 0:28:49.240
<v Speaker 2>than it really is. I think there's a willingness of

0:28:49.280 --> 0:28:53.680
<v Speaker 2>people to hear each other more than we sometimes acknowledge,

0:28:53.800 --> 0:28:55.320
<v Speaker 2>but you have to bring them together in the right

0:28:55.400 --> 0:28:58.560
<v Speaker 2>way first, and there are certain things, I would say,

0:28:58.600 --> 0:29:03.240
<v Speaker 2>food and music that can really do that. And once

0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:06.360
<v Speaker 2>you've got together around the food and the music, the

0:29:06.480 --> 0:29:09.960
<v Speaker 2>argument about the ideas can be as deep and divided,

0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:13.320
<v Speaker 2>but it's warmer and more human, and so that's part

0:29:13.320 --> 0:29:14.040
<v Speaker 2>of the spirit of it.

0:29:14.400 --> 0:29:18.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if we're thinking about news, James, and we're here

0:29:18.840 --> 0:29:22.680
<v Speaker 1>to talk about food and family and food and memories

0:29:22.720 --> 0:29:25.840
<v Speaker 1>and food and work, but we're also here to talk

0:29:25.880 --> 0:29:28.640
<v Speaker 1>about food and news. And one of the most exciting

0:29:28.720 --> 0:29:32.560
<v Speaker 1>things that has happened here for me personally as your friend,

0:29:32.880 --> 0:29:35.680
<v Speaker 1>and also as a reader of newspapers, as somebody who

0:29:35.800 --> 0:29:38.960
<v Speaker 1>cares and can't put them down and wants more to read,

0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:42.840
<v Speaker 1>is the idea that you are going to have a

0:29:42.880 --> 0:29:46.040
<v Speaker 1>newspaper the Observer, which is all part of our history.

0:29:46.120 --> 0:29:47.920
<v Speaker 1>Like a lot of food, it's part of our history

0:29:48.360 --> 0:29:49.720
<v Speaker 1>and it's also the future.

0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:56.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, here I'm just witnessing great writers and thinkers and

0:29:56.880 --> 0:30:02.160
<v Speaker 2>photographers and lovers of food at work. The Observer is

0:30:02.400 --> 0:30:05.440
<v Speaker 2>the world's oldest Sunday newspaper. Founded in seventeen ninety one,

0:30:05.640 --> 0:30:08.360
<v Speaker 2>it's had some of the greatest people ever walked through

0:30:08.400 --> 0:30:11.680
<v Speaker 2>its door. Rachel bar was the first female editor of

0:30:11.720 --> 0:30:14.600
<v Speaker 2>the National newspaper in the eighteen nineties. It sort of

0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:19.440
<v Speaker 2>called out the Versailles Treaty as being a problem waiting

0:30:19.440 --> 0:30:24.280
<v Speaker 2>to happen. George Orwell had it as it was his paper.

0:30:24.320 --> 0:30:26.640
<v Speaker 2>He called it the Enemy of Nonsense. David Astor was

0:30:26.640 --> 0:30:30.040
<v Speaker 2>this inspiring editor of it who used to say that

0:30:30.120 --> 0:30:32.480
<v Speaker 2>journalism is too important and too fun to be left

0:30:32.480 --> 0:30:34.400
<v Speaker 2>a journalist to brought a whole group of people in.

0:30:35.600 --> 0:30:39.160
<v Speaker 2>But if you ask people what they love about The Observer,

0:30:39.760 --> 0:30:45.240
<v Speaker 2>it's food. The reality is that it had whether it

0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:50.400
<v Speaker 2>was Jane Grigson or Katherine Whitehorn, but for the better

0:30:50.400 --> 0:30:53.840
<v Speaker 2>part of thirty years. I think the best writer on

0:30:54.360 --> 0:30:59.320
<v Speaker 2>food and recipes Nigel Slater, and not just the way

0:30:59.400 --> 0:31:03.320
<v Speaker 2>he writes, because he really writes about food or the

0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:05.920
<v Speaker 2>recipes he creates. And you must know him well, Ruthie.

0:31:05.960 --> 0:31:08.280
<v Speaker 3>I do. I respect him and I like him.

0:31:08.640 --> 0:31:13.320
<v Speaker 2>He's extraordinary anyway. The Observer cares as much about art

0:31:13.360 --> 0:31:16.040
<v Speaker 2>and food as it does about politics in the world,

0:31:16.600 --> 0:31:18.360
<v Speaker 2>and there are very few. And I remember when I

0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:21.000
<v Speaker 2>started out at the time someone said to me, remember

0:31:21.880 --> 0:31:26.080
<v Speaker 2>in the nineteen sixties, Harold Wilson wasn't the story. The

0:31:26.120 --> 0:31:29.560
<v Speaker 2>Beatles the story. And if you go back over time

0:31:30.040 --> 0:31:32.120
<v Speaker 2>and you look at the front pages of every paper,

0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:35.400
<v Speaker 2>they all led with Harold Wilson. And what I love

0:31:35.440 --> 0:31:38.560
<v Speaker 2>about The Observer is this sense that, no, no, we

0:31:38.640 --> 0:31:43.480
<v Speaker 2>realize that where people are arts and food as much,

0:31:43.520 --> 0:31:46.320
<v Speaker 2>if not more than politics and ideas in the world.

0:31:46.760 --> 0:31:48.800
<v Speaker 2>And so the hope is that you can take something

0:31:48.880 --> 0:31:51.680
<v Speaker 2>that has for a long time just been a newspaper,

0:31:51.880 --> 0:31:56.120
<v Speaker 2>just in print with its journalism sitting on the website

0:31:56.120 --> 0:31:59.160
<v Speaker 2>of The Guardian, and create something that genuinely has a

0:31:59.160 --> 0:32:01.960
<v Speaker 2>life of its own, and you bring the Observer food.

0:32:02.000 --> 0:32:05.040
<v Speaker 2>It's got less wonderful magazine, the Observer Food monthly, but

0:32:05.120 --> 0:32:07.120
<v Speaker 2>you bring it to life digitally, you bring it to

0:32:07.200 --> 0:32:11.240
<v Speaker 2>life in a bunch of live events, and more people

0:32:11.320 --> 0:32:14.400
<v Speaker 2>and a new generation of people get to have that

0:32:14.720 --> 0:32:17.680
<v Speaker 2>love and respect for the culture of food that I

0:32:17.680 --> 0:32:19.800
<v Speaker 2>think has been at the heart of The Observer.

0:32:20.240 --> 0:32:22.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we excited about that.

0:32:22.720 --> 0:32:25.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm excited about it too. I'm actually even you.

0:32:25.880 --> 0:32:27.320
<v Speaker 3>Know why it's exciting as well.

0:32:27.680 --> 0:32:31.040
<v Speaker 1>It's a successible but it changes, you know, you have

0:32:31.520 --> 0:32:34.080
<v Speaker 1>a column that you look to what's new in food,

0:32:34.120 --> 0:32:37.000
<v Speaker 1>what's happening in food, what's somebody cooking and food?

0:32:37.040 --> 0:32:38.880
<v Speaker 3>What ingredients are coming in today?

0:32:39.120 --> 0:32:41.680
<v Speaker 1>Which ones are you saying goodbye to the politics of

0:32:41.720 --> 0:32:42.560
<v Speaker 1>food the.

0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:43.240
<v Speaker 3>Way we grow it.

0:32:43.280 --> 0:32:46.040
<v Speaker 1>There's so much, so much time, and you know, without

0:32:46.080 --> 0:32:47.760
<v Speaker 1>having to buy a book, as.

0:32:47.640 --> 0:32:49.920
<v Speaker 2>You say, it's a way into culture, a way really

0:32:49.920 --> 0:32:54.440
<v Speaker 2>into economics. That's why I think that Chimamanda line really

0:32:54.880 --> 0:32:58.960
<v Speaker 2>sat with me. Because so many newsrooms know what they're

0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:01.960
<v Speaker 2>against right, they're driven by a kind of anger or fear.

0:33:02.560 --> 0:33:04.600
<v Speaker 2>If you can have one that knows what it's for,

0:33:05.720 --> 0:33:08.400
<v Speaker 2>dignity is always as important as food, and food is

0:33:08.440 --> 0:33:12.000
<v Speaker 2>always as important as dignity. You know what you're about

0:33:12.480 --> 0:33:14.760
<v Speaker 2>and you get up every day and go, well, these

0:33:14.760 --> 0:33:15.760
<v Speaker 2>are the things we're seeking out.

0:33:15.840 --> 0:33:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Going for food as comfort if you need and as

0:33:20.040 --> 0:33:22.280
<v Speaker 1>I say, I hope you don't need comfort. You don't

0:33:22.280 --> 0:33:24.080
<v Speaker 1>need a life you need it. But I have a

0:33:24.080 --> 0:33:28.400
<v Speaker 1>pair of socks. Talked about my socks that James Harding

0:33:28.480 --> 0:33:31.960
<v Speaker 1>brought to me. They are definitely giving me the good.

0:33:32.120 --> 0:33:33.000
<v Speaker 3>They're really good.

0:33:34.920 --> 0:33:37.000
<v Speaker 1>If we're going to go and join through and have

0:33:37.160 --> 0:33:40.680
<v Speaker 1>lunch and have some comfort, here, is there a food

0:33:40.720 --> 0:33:43.960
<v Speaker 1>that when you do need comfort that you will turn to.

0:33:44.320 --> 0:33:47.120
<v Speaker 2>You can go parently one or parody two. Here. Parently

0:33:47.160 --> 0:33:48.080
<v Speaker 2>one is chicken soup.

0:33:48.720 --> 0:33:49.800
<v Speaker 3>That's a good one, and.

0:33:49.760 --> 0:33:55.640
<v Speaker 2>The other is spaghetti bolonnaise, and either of those every day,

0:33:55.840 --> 0:34:00.840
<v Speaker 2>all day long. But my comfort treat is Cituanese food

0:34:01.600 --> 0:34:05.600
<v Speaker 2>mar putauf on a good bowl of white rice and

0:34:05.680 --> 0:34:08.720
<v Speaker 2>a cold beer. That is a happy place.

0:34:09.080 --> 0:34:09.799
<v Speaker 3>Let's go do that.

0:34:14.760 --> 0:34:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership

0:34:17.920 --> 0:34:18.560
<v Speaker 2>with Montclair