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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

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Speaker 2: Our colleague Noel is on an adventure.

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Speaker 3: And will be returning suit They called me Ben. We're

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Speaker 3: joined with our guest super producer, the one and only

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Speaker 3: g Nomes Griffin.

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Speaker 4: Most importantly are you. You are here?

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Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to

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Speaker 3: know and what may potentially be a two parter. This

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Speaker 3: is going to be a deep dive, folks, and thank

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Speaker 3: you for tuning in. We previously explored cults you've never

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Speaker 3: heard of, and in conversation you may remember, we noted

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Speaker 3: that many of those groups we mentioned could themselves be

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Speaker 3: the subject of their own episode, entire or indeed a series.

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Speaker 3: So we're continuing our exploration with one of the most

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Speaker 3: infamous and dangerous cults in recent Japanese history. This is

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Speaker 3: the story of what is now known as a left

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Speaker 3: better known in the West as am Shinrinkio. It's a

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Speaker 3: story that we cannot tell without first telling the story

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Speaker 3: of its founder, who went by the name Shoko Asahara.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, Oh yes, And the story has been talked

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Speaker 2: about a whole bunch since the mid nineteen nineties, when

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Speaker 2: some of the major incidents that we're going to be

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Speaker 2: talking about occurred. Much of the reporting that at least

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Speaker 2: I've seen ben came out of the BBC and British

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Speaker 2: broadcasting companies, and much of that was translated from Japanese. We, however,

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Speaker 2: are not Japanese speakers, so many of the names places

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Speaker 2: and things like that, we're going to do our best

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Speaker 2: to pronounce correctly and spell.

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Speaker 3: If pronunciation doesn't quite get us there with our fumbling

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Speaker 3: American tongues, which does sound like the name of an album.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what kind of genre it would be met,

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Speaker 3: but I think we're onto something.

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Speaker 4: Here's the deal, folks.

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Speaker 3: A lot of the context, as you just indicated Matt

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Speaker 3: gets missed in the West, so at the beginning of

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Speaker 3: this series, it is absolutely crucial to provide a little

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Speaker 3: more context about Japan in general as a society, without exoticizing,

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Speaker 3: without othering, without you know, couldn't have fumbling around on

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Speaker 3: Google or whatever. Please be aware of the following episodes

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Speaker 3: may not be appropriate for all listeners. We're going to

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Speaker 3: pause for a word from our sponsors. Here are the facts,

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Speaker 3: all right. We've heard this often in something that I

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Speaker 3: think really bugs all of us, the exoticization of Asian

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Speaker 3: countries in the past and in the present day. Japan

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Speaker 3: is often called a land of contradiction. And that's true.

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Speaker 3: But you know, the US is often called a land

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Speaker 3: of contradiction.

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Speaker 4: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because of God and guns? That why?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, God of guns.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a radically divergent interpretation of Christian ideology at times. Right,

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Speaker 3: this happens to a lot of countries. And look, of course,

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Speaker 3: every country is a special baby, every country is unique.

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Speaker 3: In the Japanese case, we could define the contradictions as

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Speaker 3: things like how it's home to some of the most

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Speaker 3: advanced electronics and robotics on the entire planet, but still

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Speaker 3: holds this rigid, surreal dedication to older technology or older processes,

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Speaker 3: especially in bureaucracy, like the facts machine or the stake

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Speaker 3: you got to sign stuff with a little stamp.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, Okay, so I didn't know that. Fax machines

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Speaker 2: are still a big.

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Speaker 4: Deal, dude. They're huge.

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Speaker 3: If we start if the podcasting doesn't work out.

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Speaker 4: You know, you and I.

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Speaker 3: Had nomes if you're in we're going to start a

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Speaker 3: fax machine company in Japan.

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Speaker 2: No heck, yeah, this this whole email thing is really

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Speaker 2: taken off though, and they just feel like Japan's for

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Speaker 2: maybe checking out.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, oh man, I've got some war stories to

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Speaker 3: share with you off air. There's also, you know, the

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Speaker 3: fact that Japan is a world leader in a lot

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Speaker 3: of aspects of environmental sustainability. Remember when we both found out,

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Speaker 3: gosh it was many years ago, we both found out

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Speaker 3: about the the ability to turn trash into plasma.

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Speaker 4: Do you remember that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, I cannot remember the name plasa something plasmosis,

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Speaker 2: And it was incredible. You could just shoot plasma at

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Speaker 2: any trash, literally any trash, and create building materials and

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Speaker 2: specific gases that would be helpful in other manufacturing, and

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Speaker 2: you literally turn trash into usable stuff. And for some

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Speaker 2: reason society said and not interested.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you guys didn't send the pitch to us via fax.

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Speaker 3: But despite all these innovations, Japan still has some serious

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Speaker 3: environmental issues right the industries there can be nuts with packaging,

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Speaker 3: So that's another contradiction, a contradiction that we have to mention,

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Speaker 3: we're ethically required to mention this is that while continually

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Speaker 3: rated one of the overall safest countries on the current planet,

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Speaker 3: this is a nation that's still struck with serious issues

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Speaker 3: within the justice system and particularly with sexual violence that

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Speaker 3: cannot be left un set.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's true. I noticed in documentaries about the subject

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Speaker 2: we're going to be covering today, they continually talk about

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Speaker 2: this concept of social cohesion that at least existed in

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Speaker 2: Japan in the nineteen nineties. I would say it continues

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Speaker 2: on today. And that just means to say that many

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Speaker 2: many folks in society there in Japan function similarly to

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Speaker 2: one another and have an outlook about the law, about rules,

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Speaker 2: about what people do and how they operate on a

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Speaker 2: daily basis. Yeah, and that's why the group we're going

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Speaker 2: to be talking about today was so interesting, because it's

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Speaker 2: a complete break from the norms of society, a purposeful

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Speaker 2: break from those norms.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well said, it's an interrogation of and rejection of,

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Speaker 3: a reaction to the established collective homogeneity right of a

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Speaker 3: society wherein and you always hear this reference. All my

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Speaker 3: Japanese friends say this to me pretty often. The nail

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Speaker 3: that stands out shall be hammered down. That's a very

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Speaker 3: real thing. And there's another there's another contradiction here when

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Speaker 3: we talk about religion and spirituality, which is something human

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Speaker 3: beings still haven't quite gotten their heads around. Japan is

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Speaker 3: often going to be portrayed as a secular, atheistic land,

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Speaker 3: but calling it that depends on how you define religion,

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Speaker 3: and the religion definition is a little different in the West, right,

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Speaker 3: you know, you will know followers of any number of

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Speaker 3: religions here in the United States.

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Speaker 4: In Japan, there's more.

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Speaker 3: Of a without sounding dismissive, there's almost more of a

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Speaker 3: Chipotle approach. Right, So I think, well, you know, like

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Speaker 3: a buffet, like you mix and match the stuff you

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Speaker 3: like from belief systems. Okay, get a little avocado of Islam,

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Speaker 3: get a little you know, get get a side of

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Speaker 3: lettuce from Shinto, put it together in your own spiritual burrito.

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Speaker 3: Whereas if how weird would it be? I'm sure we'll

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Speaker 3: get some emails about this, I hope we do. How

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Speaker 3: weird would it be for you to run into someone

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Speaker 3: in the Bible Belt and they tell you that they're

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Speaker 3: sort of a Buddhist Baptist.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: I think that's a very interesting person.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, me too. I'm into it. Let's let's let's

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Speaker 2: do more mix and mix and matches on spirituality. It

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Speaker 2: reminds me of the Unitarian Universalist Church that my grandparents

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Speaker 2: were a part of, where you would go in one week,

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Speaker 2: like go into church. But oh wait, we're learning about

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Speaker 2: Hinduism today. Okay, cool? Oh wait, we're reading for the

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Speaker 2: Torah today. Oh wait next week? Wait? What? What what

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Speaker 2: is going on?

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Speaker 3: I love the Unitarians, man, that's awesome.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, the concept of a personal philosophy on spirituality is

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Speaker 2: pretty compelling to me as a human, So I like it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think most people would. I think everybody kind

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Speaker 3: of has to address that on a personal level. I

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Speaker 3: think that's a universal experience, a universal personal experience, universal

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Speaker 3: personal another album name.

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Speaker 2: But what I really want is just one guy with

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Speaker 2: a beard. It's going to tell me everything that I

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Speaker 2: need to know and what to do and how to

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Speaker 2: live and where to live and who to talk to.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I have some literature for you after this. It's

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Speaker 3: not it's not me though, it's another guy. So like,

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Speaker 3: all right, Japan does have talked about um Shinriko. In

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Speaker 3: the past, we've talked at length about different cults and

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Speaker 3: cultic activities and the tactics, like how a cult is

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Speaker 3: essentially best defined as a utility belt of tactics similar

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Speaker 3: to fascism. Japan has a lot of organizations that locals

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Speaker 3: and outsiders would describe as cults. And again we're not

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Speaker 3: dunking on this country because the United States has a

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Speaker 3: lot of organizations that are in no way religious that

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Speaker 3: could be defined as cults. In Japan, it often draws

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Speaker 3: from the indigenous religious makeup like Shinto, right, which was

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Speaker 3: still remains. Like when I go to Japan, I end

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Speaker 3: up visiting holy sites of the Shinto religion and also

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Speaker 3: holy sites of the Buddhist religion. Buddhism arrived in Japan

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Speaker 3: around the sixth century CE, and the interaction, again the

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Speaker 3: sort of vin diagramming on a personal and social level,

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Speaker 3: of these two religions greatly influenced Japanese society. So you'll

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Speaker 3: find people who say they're not particularly religious, but they

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Speaker 3: do go to insert holy site here on insert significant

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Speaker 3: day here.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, even if you have never fully paid attention

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Speaker 2: to the specifics about Japanese culture, you would likely have

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Speaker 2: at least encountered some of the imagery, the architecture, the

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Speaker 2: vision of Shinto and the veneration of ancestors and some

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Speaker 2: of the places like that you're talking about the holy sites.

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Speaker 2: They just they end up proliferating throughout especially pop culture,

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Speaker 2: as almost a touchstone of something either very I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I was going to say very cool, but I think

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Speaker 2: maybe that's my interpretation of it from when I was

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Speaker 2: a kid like, man, that's cool, whatever that is, that's cool,

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Speaker 2: which you know, comes to like the obsession of comic

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Speaker 2: books and some of the other things where you actually

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Speaker 2: see that imagery. Yes, I do think it's interesting how

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Speaker 2: that is that is a representation of religion, and you

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Speaker 2: maybe don't understand that when you're viewing it as an

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Speaker 2: outsider just looking in.

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Speaker 3: Right, especially from the American perspective or from the US perspective,

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Speaker 3: I should say, the prioritization of a separation between church

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Speaker 3: and state not quite the same thing in this culture.

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Speaker 3: I'd like to share an anecdote with one of my

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Speaker 3: old professors that I, as you know, I visited every

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Speaker 3: few years or so. One time this guy said, look,

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Speaker 3: here's the deal. You'll be eating at like a corporate

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Speaker 3: food court, right, and you know, you've got the big

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Speaker 3: brand names, the fast food, the noodle shop, all all

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Speaker 3: that stuff. And you look around and in an especially

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Speaker 3: prominent or prestigious place, boom, there's a shrine.

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Speaker 4: There's a holy site.

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Speaker 3: You next to the toborro, right next to the sbarro,

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Speaker 3: you know, two meters from the McDonald's. And you might

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Speaker 3: say this commodification is depressing what happened to humans, But

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Speaker 3: then again, in the exact same situation, you'll be eating

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Speaker 3: at the same food court and boom, you see that

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Speaker 3: shrine and you realize the existence of spirituality amid this

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Speaker 3: hubbub is inspiring. The past stays with us, even in

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Speaker 3: a country that evolves at such a breakneck pace. And

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Speaker 3: that's why what we would call diplomatically new age spiritual movements.

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Speaker 4: Up until the nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 3: Were very highly tolerated in Japan, and a lot relied

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Speaker 3: upon interpretations of Shinto and Buddhist and Hindu belief systems,

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Speaker 3: incorporating Christianity, aspects of Islam and Judaism as well. All

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Speaker 3: the hits, all the big ones just sort of melded

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Speaker 3: together in people's personal explorations and the teachings of those

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Speaker 3: people to their followers. So look, we've.

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Speaker 4: Seen it time and time again.

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Speaker 3: You can easily correlate a rise in new spiritual movements

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Speaker 3: or even cultic organizations to times of social unrest. Cults

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Speaker 3: exploded in the United States during the Great Depression, right,

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Speaker 3: cults exploded in the social unrest of the advot of

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Speaker 3: the Internet. And no country is an exception to this rule.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and stuff went really bad as the turn of

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Speaker 2: the New Century was on its way. In the New millennium,

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Speaker 2: that's when that's some stuff seems to really have gone

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Speaker 2: wrong with New Age spiritual movements.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, I agree with you.

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Speaker 3: We know that in the past due to a number

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Speaker 3: of variables, particularly the end of widespread emperor worship. You know,

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Speaker 3: that's like the final the final boss of ancestor worship

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Speaker 3: in parts of Japan leading through World War Two. After

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Speaker 3: World War Two, there's a lot of Western influence. The

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Speaker 3: practice of Shinto is not banned, but it is abolished

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Speaker 3: as the state sponsored religion.

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Speaker 4: You don't have to do it anymore.

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Speaker 3: And because of that and the massive horrors of World

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Speaker 3: War two and the unrest, we see a boom of

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Speaker 3: spiritual movements without this sort of to your point about homogeneity,

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Speaker 3: Without this state sponsored Shinto prioritization, millions of people in

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Speaker 3: the country experience a spiritual vacuum, and so naturally they

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Speaker 3: seek to fill that vacuum with something else. The West

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Speaker 3: is pushing heavy on the Japanese government for all kinds

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Speaker 3: of things. One of those things is lifting censorship rules

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Speaker 3: on these new spiritual movements and then also allowing for

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Speaker 3: these religious movements to have those tasty tax exemptions, which

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna say, Matt, I still think it's kind of

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Speaker 3: beat me or Nomes.

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Speaker 4: I still think it's kind of bull what.

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Speaker 2: That's what it's all about, baby, The pursuit of tax

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Speaker 2: free stuff. That's the that's the dream. That's the post

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Speaker 2: World War two dream for every nation. Seriously, Well, we've

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Speaker 2: talked about this a little bit before the post World

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Speaker 2: War two world for each individual country and what that

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Speaker 2: meant rebuilding whatever it is, the identity of individual countries

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Speaker 2: that because there was a lot of rebuilding that had

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Speaker 2: to be done, especially in Japan after you know, if

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Speaker 2: you imagine the reputation hit that a country takes after

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Speaker 2: it's involved in something like that, you know, even the

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Speaker 2: United States went through its own cultural shift there in

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Speaker 2: the nineteen forties and fifties, and this concept of what

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Speaker 2: the dream of being a citizen of a particular country is, like,

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Speaker 2: what does it mean to be a citizen of this country?

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Speaker 2: What should I be? How should I live?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: What should my work look like and my family look like?

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Speaker 2: And what goals should I be striving towards? All that

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Speaker 2: stuff starts changing post World War Two? Yeah, yeah, yeah?

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Speaker 4: Who are we? Who am I in this miliu? You know?

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Speaker 3: And for a lot of people, the answer is cults. Again,

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Speaker 3: not to other any country. This is as common as

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Speaker 3: what's the most common magic, the gathering card, probably like

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Speaker 3: a lands card.

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Speaker 2: That's probably a goblet or something. I don't know, an island.

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Speaker 2: Who an island?

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Speaker 3: Hey go, we'll go with islands. It's as common as

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Speaker 3: an island.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, but I guess what I want? What I was

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Speaker 2: What I was getting at there, Ben, is that so

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Speaker 2: many people view themselves as kind of attempting to fit

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Speaker 2: the picture of the thing that society is kind of

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Speaker 2: reflecting back at them, right, And that that I think

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Speaker 2: about baby boomers and my grandparents and my you know,

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Speaker 2: then up to my parents, and I think about how

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Speaker 2: people were trying to fit the mold of the thing,

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Speaker 2: do the right things right for themselves and for their family.

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Speaker 2: And I would say, these these alternate religious movements are

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Speaker 2: it's just a way to not get stuck in that

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Speaker 2: same thing that especially young people are observing their parents,

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Speaker 2: like maybe getting caught in the trap of some of

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Speaker 2: that stuff.

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Speaker 3: Right, right, reacting to the expectations. Right, who what there's

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Speaker 3: a wave?

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Speaker 4: Right? Yes?

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Speaker 3: Am I just a meaningless part of the wave?

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Speaker 4: Am I a drop of water my own? Right?

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Speaker 3: And that's why you know, this is very familiar to

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Speaker 3: folks in the United States who are notoriously individualistic.

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Speaker 4: Right, you could pick a what's that old joke? It's

303
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Speaker 4: a mean joke.

304
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Speaker 3: But you can go up to so many people in

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Speaker 3: the United States and tell them the definition of narcissism

306
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Speaker 3: and their first question and the dangers of narcissism, and

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Speaker 3: their first question will be, yeah, but how do we

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Speaker 3: make that about me?

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Speaker 4: Though? Right?

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Speaker 3: And that's a danger that's like a systemic flaw in

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Speaker 3: this society, but it has advantages. Anyway, fast forward, It's

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Speaker 3: the nineteen seventies nineteen.

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Speaker 4: Eighties World War two.

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Speaker 3: The legacies and the horrors remain, obviously, but Japan is

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Speaker 3: on a massive upswing and society is moving on mass

316
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Speaker 3: towards the grand game of capitalism, materialistic pursuit. You better

317
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Speaker 3: get in the right unit, You better get the right job,

318
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Speaker 3: because that will set you for life. Also, here's when

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Speaker 3: you're supposed to marry. Here is when you are supposed

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Speaker 3: to have kids, and woe betide any nail that stands out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you better work your ass off, like the

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Speaker 2: for the entirety of the time that you're in school

323
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Speaker 2: to the entirety of the time that you get into

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Speaker 2: this corporate rat race. You work until you can work

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Speaker 2: no more. And if what we talked about in a

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Speaker 2: previous episode, if your boss is going out for drinks,

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Speaker 2: you're going out for drinks and you're staying up until

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Speaker 2: he's done or whatever, that that whole thing that we

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Speaker 2: talked about.

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Speaker 3: You better be back at work at seven yeah, because

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Speaker 3: you're at seven am, because you're.

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Speaker 4: Supposed to be there.

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Speaker 3: And you know, in these since I have to go

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Speaker 3: to this country on a semi regular basis, I can

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Speaker 3: confirm some of that's loosening up, but it's still very

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Speaker 3: much exactly as you're describing. And if you A lot

337
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,880
Speaker 3: of people have almost kind of PTSD from this, because

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Speaker 3: if you make a mistake, it can be very difficult

339
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:12,680
Speaker 3: to repair that mistake, to repair your reputation. As Robert W.

340
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 3: Chambers would say, this is why there are so many

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Speaker 3: people who feel left behind in the seventies and the eighties,

342
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Speaker 3: the disillusioned. You know, you're seeking, as all humans do,

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Speaker 3: a deeper meaning to the world in which you live.

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Speaker 3: The big questions like the ones we asked Dan Bush earlier.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you can get you can graduate from the

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Speaker 3: top university. You can manage to move to Tokyo and

347
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Speaker 3: make a living. You marry right, you get a good job,

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Speaker 3: satisfy your ancestors, have an air. But then you look

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Speaker 3: around one day and you say, you know, why am

350
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Speaker 3: I old?

351
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Speaker 4: Now? Why did I do all this stuff? What does

352
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Speaker 4: it mean?

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Speaker 3: That's why people look for alternate explanations. That's why people

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Speaker 3: in this nation, in particular in Japan, start at this

355
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 3: point in time joining various new religious movements at an

356
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Speaker 3: unprecedented pace. Recent estimates tell us there are no less

357
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Speaker 3: than one hundred and eighty three thousand officially registered religions

358
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Speaker 3: in Japan.

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Speaker 2: Whoa, oh, those delicious tax branks, o Ben. I'm just

360
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Speaker 2: looking back to remember some of the major Japanese corporations

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Speaker 2: that are having a heyday at this time. Corporations that

362
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Speaker 2: have been around for a long time. If you think

363
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Speaker 2: about I think it was Toyota. So Toyota Whi's been

364
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 2: around since like the thirties, right post war times, they

365
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 2: start exporting cars to the US. This is like boom

366
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Speaker 2: time for Toyota. It's becoming one of the big names

367
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Speaker 2: in car manufacturing and purchasing well, especially in the United

368
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 2: States and in western markets. Then you've also got things

369
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Speaker 2: coming around in the eighties there like Nintendo coming around, Sony,

370
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 2: you know, really giving birth to all kinds of new technology.

371
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Speaker 2: Like you talked about at the beginning of the show. There,

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Speaker 2: Hitachi was a major player. It's just interesting just imagining

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many more, by the way, but

374
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Speaker 2: you just imagine some of these huge corporate entities that

375
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Speaker 2: are also helping to get the corporate profits are crazy high, right,

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Speaker 2: And then you're imagining all these other organizations that are

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00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,719
Speaker 2: doing the tax thing that you're describing here, right, And

378
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Speaker 2: I just see I just see this picture of people

379
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 2: trying to escape those big corporate settings to get to

380
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Speaker 2: a place that's a little more internal, maybe a little

381
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Speaker 2: more again use words spiritual for that kind of stuff,

382
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 2: but just less stuffy. I would almost say.

383
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Speaker 3: Yeah, the Zaibatsu, they're called the big companies that are

384
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 3: beyond the legislation of monopoly, right, vertically integrated, financially integrated,

385
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 3: a touch in every industry. If I can build you

386
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 3: a car, let me build you a dishwasher, and hey,

387
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,959
Speaker 3: do you want some shoelacers that kind of stuff.

388
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's very real.

389
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 2: And you and think about the even just the dress

390
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 2: associated with a corporate environment like that, you know, the suits,

391
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,239
Speaker 2: the dresses, the thing, the way you appear as you

392
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 2: walk around, and then you look in the mirror. People

393
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 2: trying to get the heck away from that. And if

394
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: you know, if you've got an idea, you've got some

395
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 2: ideas rolling around, Hmmm, what if we packaged this as

396
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 2: a religion, you could you you could get people probably

397
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Speaker 2: to jump ship out of that corporate structure pretty easily.

398
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Speaker 4: One hundred percent.

399
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and well said on the dystopian side of that coin,

400
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 3: that yen would be.

401
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 4: Uh before we go to a break. I don't know

402
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 4: why it's.

403
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 3: Just occurred to me, but what's stopping these very big

404
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 3: companies from making their own religions. That'd be like, would

405
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 3: you join the church the zayabots Zaibatsu church? Ah, if

406
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 3: they were like Mitsubishi is also a religion.

407
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 2: Look, I'm gonna draw parallel here, and that's not real,

408
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 2: but I feel it sometimes. All right, if you think

409
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:27,239
Speaker 2: about the devotees of Sony or Microsoft, depending on the

410
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 2: gaming system that you grew up with or that you

411
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 2: currently play, and it's almost brand loyalty. But it goes

412
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: deeper than that, I think. Yeah, the Nintendo, the Nintendo people.

413
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't.

414
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 3: Know, it's prevalent in electronics and in automotives.

415
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 4: Is it not like the.

416
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 2: Ama Toyota boy?

417
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 4: Right? Yeah?

418
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 3: And I've I actually did have an interesting conversation with

419
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 3: a girl I was dating whose father described them as

420
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 3: very very much a Nissan family.

421
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: Interesting.

422
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was super cool with me until we walked

423
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 3: out of his house and he saw my Ford.

424
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: That is really interesting and that is a wow. That's

425
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 2: a thing. I know several friends, like families of friends

426
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 2: that are Honda folks and they will just always drive

427
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 2: a Honda. It doesn't matter what it is. It's a

428
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 2: Honda if it's in my garage.

429
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think we're touching on something that could

430
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 3: be a really cool sci fi story in the future,

431
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 3: while it's still science fiction.

432
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 4: We also want to tell you.

433
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 3: Before we go to a quick break that of those

434
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:44,959
Speaker 3: almost two hundred thousand officially registered religions in Japan only like,

435
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 3: they're not.

436
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 4: All created equally.

437
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 3: In terms of size, only about two thousand are pretty

438
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 3: big in their own right. But if you math out

439
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 3: the math right and play with the demographics a little,

440
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 3: what this teaches us is that something like ten to

441
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 3: twenty percent of Japanese nationals are in some way connected

442
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 3: to what we would loosely describe as new religions. We'll

443
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 3: pause here for a word from our sponsors, and we've returned,

444
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 3: so again, before we dunk too hard on organizations that

445
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 3: can be called cults, we're being very careful with our

446
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 3: language here. It's important to know that the vast majority

447
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 3: of these organizations are just what they say on the

448
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 3: ten they're harmless, they're hopefully helpful to people on a

449
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 3: spiritual level. They're ways of encountering, processing, understanding reality. They're

450
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 3: countless gurus, you know, everywhere you can't throw a stone

451
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 3: without hitting a guru's compound. These days are an ikey guy,

452
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 3: if you like. In Japan, they come and go right

453
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 3: and maybe maybe their ideas esoteric or eccentric to some people,

454
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 3: but for their followers this is very important. So Japan,

455
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 3: like any modern society, should they tolerate these groups. You know,

456
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 3: go do your thing right. If you think the giraffe

457
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 3: is the final form of evolution, tally ho for you

458
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 3: just don't hurt anybody.

459
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 2: Well yeah, well, because you find groups coming out of

460
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 2: Japan like Happy Science. Remember when we talked about them.

461
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 4: Yes, I love the name.

462
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: It's such a beautiful it's a beautiful concept of an organization.

463
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 2: You got some venus stuff, throw that in there, you know,

464
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 2: it's just it's really fun. It was fun. I remember

465
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 2: when we covered that. It was really it was literally

466
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 2: a happy time to talk about that organization.

467
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 4: All three of us are gritting.

468
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, many describe it as a cult. Rio was

469
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 2: his name, Rio who Okawa I think was the leader's name.

470
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 2: And you know, if you look at the guy and

471
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: he's always smiling and it's called Happy My gosh, I'm in.

472
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, riojo Okawa.

473
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, Institute for Research and Human Happiness, Sign me up.

474
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: Come on.

475
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 3: I mean it sounds scientific, says like there's work to

476
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 3: be done. There are probably pizza parties. I like, this

477
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 3: is a cool job. So we are taking time and

478
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 3: making space to establish that the vast majority of these things,

479
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 3: and these leaders and these self taught spiritual experts are

480
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 3: not bad people.

481
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 4: Right.

482
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 3: They are people with conviction, but spiritual conviction, not legal conviction.

483
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 4: And that'll be more later.

484
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 3: Right from this milieu arrives on stage of fascinating a dangerous,

485
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 3: frankly terrible guy who sees himself as a prophet and

486
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 3: eventually goes by the name Shoko Asahara. But that's not

487
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 3: his original name.

488
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: No, I think you would pronounce his name Chizuo. Maybe

489
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 2: I'm wrong? Is it? Is that a cha sound with

490
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 2: a ch? Chizuo Matsumoto. He was born on March second,

491
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty five, and one of the main things you'll

492
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 2: hear about him when he's reported on in a documentary

493
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 2: or stated about him is that he was partially blind

494
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 2: or mostly blind. Yeah, he had to go to a

495
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 2: special boarding school because of that condition, and he was

496
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: there until the age of six, and then he ended

497
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: up graduating well, I guess it's graduating from high school

498
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: or the upper level schools in nineteen seventy three. And

499
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 2: at that time he came out of a place called

500
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: the Kumamoto Prefecture. And I don't know where that is

501
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: in Japan, to be honest, ben.

502
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 4: No, no worries.

503
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 3: That's one of the places I have not been to.

504
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,719
Speaker 3: It's in a central area of Japan, or it's a

505
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 3: prefecture in Kyusho.

506
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 4: And Kyusho, I should say.

507
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 3: If you picture Japan as kind of an elbow of

508
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 3: an archipelago, right, and Hokkaido, the most northern part is

509
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 3: up where your hand is. If you raise your arm

510
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 3: and you know the elbow is kind of central Japan,

511
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 3: then Kushu Island is sort.

512
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: Of like armpittish Okay, wow, not an insult.

513
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 3: That's just to establish the geospatial.

514
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: Relationship, got it, Okay?

515
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 4: It my my.

516
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: The reason I'm wondering about that is just I wonder

517
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 2: what kind of the societal pressures. I wonder what it

518
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 2: was like to live in that area, right, to grow

519
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 2: up as a kid, right, because I just don't know,

520
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know. We don't know all of

521
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: his personal life stuff. Nobody's got a you know, a

522
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: full bio of this guy from a child going on? Right,

523
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 2: what are the major events in his life in these

524
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 2: some of these things that occurred. We know he was

525
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 2: facewood challenges right as he's growing up and probably learned

526
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: a lot of lessons as he's going through these schools.

527
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 2: And then finally he graduates and he applies for medical

528
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 2: school at Kumamoto University. Yeah, and like this is this

529
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 2: is formative time, right for somebody who is moving on

530
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 2: from a child to becoming an adult and they're going

531
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,479
Speaker 2: to further their studies. What happens to him?

532
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 4: Then?

533
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have to we have to underline that point

534
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 3: you made, Matt, because most of the information you will

535
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 3: find about chizu Wo Matsumoto's childhood comes from him and

536
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 3: comes from all followers. So it's very much an unreliable

537
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 3: narrator situation. But there's no escape in it, like you said,

538
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 3: especially in this society at the time. He is overcoming

539
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 3: tremendous challenges. He does not he does not pass the

540
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 3: entrance exams in Kumamoto University. He later moves to a

541
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 3: prep school in the big city where almost everybody wants

542
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 3: to live, Tokyo, and he applies to Tokyo University again,

543
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 3: looking to go pre med prestigious, very prestigious school, highly ambitious.

544
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 3: It's a huge win if you get in there.

545
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 4: He did not.

546
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 3: He doesn't get into either school, but he's not going

547
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 3: to let this keep him down. He maintains a deep

548
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 3: interest in medicine, especially what we'll call traditional medicine, acupuncture,

549
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 3: Chinese herbal remedies, pharmacology. He is an autodidact. He is

550
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 3: self taught, and he eventually opens up his own traditional

551
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 3: Chinese medicine spot of pharmacy in Funabashi, Chiba, which is

552
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 3: sort of like northeast of Tokyo.

553
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 5: Yep.

554
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 2: So we've got a picture here already of a young

555
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: ambitious man who is probably pretty intelligent but just can't

556
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 2: pass these entrance exams, already feeling a lot of resentment

557
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: against the establishment, you know, side that he wanted to

558
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 2: gain access to, but they wouldn't let him in.

559
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,959
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And like you articulated earlier, he is increasingly

560
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 3: feeling like one of those people left behind by this

561
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 3: breakneck system. But at this point in his life we

562
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,919
Speaker 3: could consider him a fairly successful guy. He's overcome those

563
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 3: tremendous challenges. He's got his own business. He seems set

564
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 3: for a happy, long career. He's not locked into the

565
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 3: slavery of being a salaryman. He's essentially a faith healer.

566
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 4: But also he's.

567
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,240
Speaker 3: Got some romance going on. He marries a fellow student

568
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 3: from that prep school he visits in Tokyo, and things

569
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 3: start to go sideways. In nineteen eighty two, he is

570
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 3: arrested by the authorities. They say, you're selling fake remedies, Bud.

571
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 3: Ultimately he's convicted for the term they use is selling

572
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 3: medicine without a license, the less diplomatic term is straight

573
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 3: up fraud and gets in massive trouble. He gets fined,

574
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 3: the fine really wallops, and his business goes bankrupt.

575
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: YEP, this is a great time to talk about this

576
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 2: practice of faith healing, laying on hands, all of these

577
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 2: things we've talked about in the past. We have full episodes.

578
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 2: You go check them out right now.

579
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, really dig those man.

580
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 3: Actually, oh yeah, there was a weird moment in those

581
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 3: where you know, I know, we're under something when we

582
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 3: we counterintuitively start to support something that both of us

583
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 3: thought was just hogwash or Yeah, there was some point

584
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 3: in the Faith Healing episode it was about placebo effects, yes,

585
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 3: where I remember thinking, I don't know, man, if it works,

586
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 3: it works.

587
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Your mind can do incredible things with your body

588
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: when it comes to like rejuvenating yourself based sometimes on

589
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 2: your belief that you are being rejuvenated, which is intense.

590
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 2: And you know, we also talked about the connection between

591
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 2: certain parts of your brain and the chemicals and hormones

592
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 2: and stuff that they release, and how that can actually

593
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 2: affect your body in positive ways. So some of this

594
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 2: stuff isn't completely bunk. And when we talk about the

595
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: individual human beings that are attempting to sell those services

596
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 2: and those goods, you know, it's really tough to get

597
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 2: into the mind of an individual and say, oh, does

598
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 2: this person just like know that they're selling water that's

599
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 2: not actually wholly.

600
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,959
Speaker 4: Its activated water? Yeah, But.

601
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 2: Or do they fully truly believe that this water has

602
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 2: healing properties? And if they do, then it it's a

603
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 2: whole different thing to I think, to me, at least,

604
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: when I imagine the reasons people are doing things right.

605
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 2: But there is the con man aspect that flows through

606
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: all of it, and that is the fact that you

607
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 2: know you're doing something that's getting over on somebody else

608
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 2: simply for monetary gain.

609
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 3: Right, what are your intentions monetary gain or influence over people?

610
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 4: Right?

611
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 3: That's when it gets real gnarly. And I think that

612
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 3: is so well put man, And it's important to remember

613
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 3: that people can be perhaps scientifically mistaken, without being jerks

614
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,479
Speaker 3: or without being pills, you know what I mean. They

615
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 3: really are trying to help. And so it's I think

616
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 3: it's something that irritates you and me and hopefully all

617
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 3: of us listening at home when folks who consider themselves

618
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 3: skeptics are incredibly militaristic and over zealously dismissive of people

619
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 3: who are trying their best, you know what I mean,

620
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 3: even if you don't agree, if they're not harming folks,

621
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,439
Speaker 3: just like the government of Japan said, then do as

622
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 3: thou wilt.

623
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I almost want. We're about to talk about

624
00:37:54,719 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: the organization, right, about the religion part that this person,

625
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 2: this individual gets into. And I would just I think

626
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 2: this is a good place to say it. Even in

627
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 2: interviews that were conducted in the late twenty teens in

628
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 2: the early twenty twenties of individual followers who at one

629
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 2: point were a part of this organization. They still maintain

630
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 2: their time in this organization was one of, if not

631
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 2: the best portions of their life from a spiritual perspective,

632
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: from a growth perspective. So before we even get into

633
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 2: any of it, there's positivity to be found in most

634
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 2: things that we would look at and go.

635
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 3: Ooh yeah, yeah. We would go why is your diet

636
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 3: like that? And they would say, oh no, it works

637
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 3: for me, I dig it. And a lot of these

638
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 3: folks that you could be tricky to call them survivors

639
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 3: of this movement, but a lot of them continue those

640
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 3: practices today under different name and are by the way,

641
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 3: I think we should say this now too. We'll reiterate

642
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 3: at the end of the series. They are not criminals,

643
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 3: oh in any way, right, just it's kind of like

644
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 3: the argument with Christianity, Right, you meet someone who is

645
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 3: a Christian, that doesn't mean they're part of the inquisition

646
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 3: that the Spaniards did, you know, can't really put that

647
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 3: on them.

648
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 2: But we're going to talk about the the legal overwatch.

649
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 2: Let's say, of some can you there's a little tease,

650
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 2: But can you imagine if everybody who is a part

651
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 2: of one of the world's major religions or all of

652
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 2: the major religions because of past atrocities had the same

653
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 2: kind of like checkups and surveillance.

654
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 4: At that level.

655
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 3: Oh buddy, yeah, man, that's crazy and okay, So let's

656
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 3: let's set the stage for the providence the origin story

657
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 3: of a man who has not yet come to call

658
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 3: himself Shoko Asahara. He joins around the time he's having

659
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 3: these legal troubles a little bit before. He is a

660
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 3: member of a new spiritual movement called Alanshu, and this

661
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 3: combines elements of Hinduism and Buddhism. Again pretty common, not

662
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 3: particularly unusual for a movement of its sort in Japanese culture.

663
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 3: At this time, people are all in search for those

664
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 3: deeper truths unless you're really out there folks, you know,

665
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 3: in your neighborhood, your coworker's casual friends. If it ever

666
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 3: comes up, they're gonna kind of talk to you about

667
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 3: it in a positive way, like a hobby, even if

668
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 3: they're not into it. It's kind of like if you

669
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 3: met somebody who was super duper into what's an unproblematic.

670
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 2: Hobby, magic the gathering, duper to.

671
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 3: Magic the gathering or collectible card games, and then you think, okay, yeah,

672
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 3: that's just my pal. That's that's what they do on

673
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 3: the weekends, and sometimes they take off work because there's

674
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 3: a magic tournament.

675
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 2: Just because the planes Walkers are really important to them

676
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 2: doesn't mean they're a weirdo.

677
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're just gonna move the meeting because the final

678
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 3: Fantasy iteration came out. We didn't Those cards do look sick.

679
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 3: So this is the issue for this guy, who again

680
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 3: is still going by the name Matsumoto. He doesn't find

681
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 3: the current combinations of belief in agon shoot will be

682
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 3: interesting right or to really get the job done, and

683
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 3: they can't carry him through the pain, the trauma, the

684
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 3: social embarrassment, legal woes, so.

685
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 2: It doesn't push him to that place where he finds

686
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 2: the next set of actions he needs to take right. Yeah,

687
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 2: to me, that's what it. In a lot of ways,

688
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 2: like we rely on society or a loved one, a teacher,

689
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 2: you know, a mentor of sorts to get us where

690
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 2: we're going, and sometimes that can just be a set

691
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: of beliefs that kind of lets you know, Okay, my

692
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 2: in order of operations of what I need to be

693
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 2: doing in life. This this thing lets me know that's

694
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 2: my next step. But he didn't find that there, right,

695
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 2: and and but what what does he decide to do?

696
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, he didn't find the metaphysical signposts, the

697
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 3: guided guardians. So he says, I'll be the change. I'm

698
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 3: going to do it myself. There's a better way to

699
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 3: figure this out, and I am the man for the job.

700
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 3: I'm establishing my own spiritual movement, my own spiritual movement.

701
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,399
Speaker 3: I am going to call it am Shinsen no Kai,

702
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 3: which will later become known to critics and devotees alike

703
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 3: as am Shinrikyo or in English something like Ohm Supreme Truth.

704
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 4: Whoa.

705
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 2: And with that, let's take a quick break here word

706
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,479
Speaker 2: from our sponsors. We'll be back soon.

707
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 4: Here's where it gets crazy.

708
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 3: He doesn't just figure this out right, it is apartment

709
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 3: and stay in his apartment. He doesn't get a job

710
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 3: at the Coombini or anything. He hits the street. He's

711
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 3: out there, you know, putting his h what well, we

712
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 3: used to say, okay, well he's out on the streets,

713
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 3: and I can't remember the cool English phrase for it,

714
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 3: but he's handing out pamphlets. He's proselytized as street corners.

715
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 3: He's like, you know what you need to do? Learn

716
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 3: yoga with me. Also, here's some gen z.

717
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, did you see that picture of him that

718
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 2: got circulated early early on where it's allegedly him meditating

719
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: and then floating off of the ground in his you know,

720
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 2: the cross legged stance that you see in meditation. There's

721
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,720
Speaker 2: this one where there's a he's got a real grimace

722
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: on his face and he's floating. It looks like, which

723
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: you know, to my mind, it's like he did a

724
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 2: really hard jump move and then got into the position

725
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 2: in good photos.

726
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, that also feels like.

727
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,720
Speaker 3: You're entering the land of con artistry at some point,

728
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. This works, though, Whatever he's doing,

729
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 3: whatever spectacles he's creating in his evangelical approaches, it works.

730
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 3: He starts to get more and more followers who say, hey,

731
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 3: I'm disillusioned too by the frantic materialism. I actually don't

732
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 3: want to work all the time. I kind of miss

733
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 3: seeing my spouse, which will be funny later in an

734
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 3: evil way, And so they join up. They start following

735
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 3: this guy. Now, at first, they're not starting a commune. Immediately,

736
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,280
Speaker 3: they're buying his literature, they're listening to him, they're telling

737
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,919
Speaker 3: other people about him. By nineteen eighty four, this guy

738
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 3: has a large enough following and therefore funding to support

739
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 3: the creation of the ALM Spiritual Academy. And it's right

740
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 3: in downtown Tokyo, which sounds impressive until you realize that

741
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 3: Tokyo is so freaking big that it has multiple downtowns.

742
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 3: Oh wow, one of the downtown Tokyos.

743
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 2: You know, I've never again, I've never been there, so

744
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 2: I don't know what that looks like and feels like.

745
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 2: Ben How just for anybody who hasn't been to Tokyo, how

746
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: would you compare it to being somewhere near the center

747
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 2: of Manhattan.

748
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe one way to describe Tokyo would be to say,

749
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 3: imagine several New York cities all just scrunched together and

750
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 3: each being unique, having their own sort of reputation, and

751
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,760
Speaker 3: similar to New York an exception here in the west.

752
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 3: Tokyo has amazing public transit, so you really can get anywhere.

753
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 3: It can be confusing, but yeah, New York City is Checkers.

754
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 3: Tokyo is chess. Wow, Okay, we're in terms of like complexity.

755
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 3: I guess that's not the perfect analogy, but here's the

756
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 3: best way to put it. Imagine if one fourth of

757
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 3: the US population all lived in the New York metro area,

758
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 3: one fourth of the population roughly of Japan lives in

759
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 3: the Tokyo metro area.

760
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 4: Wow. Yeah, yeah, So.

761
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 3: Shout out to anybody who's anxiety just kicked up a notch.

762
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. Seriously, here in Atlanta, I'm imagining, you know, someone

763
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 2: saying downtown but then referring to like Buckhead or something,

764
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 2: but also maybe referring to Litll five points or as

765
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 2: a downtown, or you know, specific areas that are bustling

766
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 2: but aren't necessarily the same thing as the major downtown area.

767
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 4: Right like the Epicenter, etc.

768
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 5: My mom, this is so funny that you're talking about

769
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 5: different downtowns and like what that could mean. And my

770
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 5: mom the other day lives like five minutes away from me.

771
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 5: I'm in like south to cab East Atlanta village. She

772
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 5: lives over in Ormwood Park, which is like very Obviously,

773
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 5: if you're in Atlanta, you probably know the neighborhoods, and

774
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 5: if you're not that's so specific. But she literally was like, yeah,

775
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 5: I was walking over to downtown Glenwood Park the other

776
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 5: day and I said, that's not a thing. What are

777
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 5: you talking about? She goes, but did you know what

778
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 5: I was talking about, like where all the shops and

779
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 5: the Genny's ice cream is over there? And I said so,

780
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 5: like yes, but I'm a little mad that you called

781
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 5: it downtown Glenwood Park. That's not a thing. She goes, Yeah,

782
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 5: there's also a downtown East Atlanta Village And I'm like,

783
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 5: I think that people just call that East Atlanta Village

784
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 5: and like the general area is East Atlanta. But she's like,

785
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 5: every neighborhood can have a downtown. And I'm like, Ormwood Park,

786
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 5: where you lived, not have a downtown. Girl, Grant Park,

787
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 5: I would not say has a downtown, but it's not

788
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 5: a downtown.

789
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 3: It's the Zebra downtown, I guess, or the draft since

790
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 3: we're Richard, that's a great point.

791
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, anyway, that was like I was like, that's so

792
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 5: funny that that's coming up anyway, So I just wanted

793
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 5: to share that you.

794
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you.

795
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 3: We'd love to hear your downtown's as well, folks. And

796
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 3: and you've inspired us here. How far can we take this?

797
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 3: Maybe I can pick a room in my house and

798
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 3: start calling it the downtown.

799
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 2: I'm going to town.

800
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, kitchen room, it's.

801
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:41,760
Speaker 2: Just my basement.

802
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, well your basement was pretty sick man.

803
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 2: Honestly, that's going downtown.

804
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,439
Speaker 3: From what they used to say on that video game

805
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 3: from downtown, that's NBA, NBA jam, NBA jam, He's on fire.

806
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 3: So uh yes, So maybe downtown is a matter of

807
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 3: your own perspective, as a GNOME's mom so beautifully pointed

808
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 3: out there.

809
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 4: Thank you for that.

810
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the idea without getting too far aside into

811
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 3: Japanese geography here or urban centers, typically people who live

812
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:24,439
Speaker 3: in that area are maybe not gonna say downtown. They're

813
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 3: gonna say the specific area they're talking about, like the

814
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 3: notorious Shinjuku or something. Shinjuku is where you see a

815
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 3: lot of tourists who enjoy partying.

816
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know what that means, often in a

817
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 2: legal way, but not always.

818
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 3: Okay, that's like, you know, that's that's where you'll see

819
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 3: a lot of Westerners drinking sketchy bars.

820
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 4: That it's there's a.

821
00:49:55,560 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 3: Big uh, there's big sex trade. There's some organized crime

822
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 3: kind of things, but still very much safer than a

823
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 3: lot of places in the United States.

824
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 2: But cost leon.

825
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 4: Yes, it is.

826
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 3: Safer than the neighborhood of our old office, by a

827
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 3: country mile, by a long, long way. I didn't tell

828
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 3: you the Yams guy is back, oh, a few days ago.

829
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,359
Speaker 3: I guess he must have just gotten released. But there

830
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:31,240
Speaker 3: was a guy who is speaking of specific references, Matt Nomes,

831
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:35,399
Speaker 3: there was a guy who disappeared a few years back

832
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 3: in the neighborhood, and he was locally famous to my

833
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 3: neighbors and myself because for some reason, in the wee

834
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 3: hours of the night, you would just hear him yelling

835
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 3: about Yams. He would just be running around, and it

836
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 3: was always the same guy, and he was just going Yaams,

837
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 3: sometimes as a question, sometimes as a statement.

838
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 2: But he's back, Baby's back, baby Yam.

839
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 3: Time, he's on fire, He's on Yam. Anyway, we've diverged.

840
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 3: Tokyo has, of course, like any other large population, it

841
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 3: has its share of esoterics, eccentrics, characters. This guy who's

842
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 3: not yet calling himself as Sahara, he becomes one of these,

843
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 3: and his system is I don't want to say plagiarized

844
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 3: because I don't think that's fair. But it is an

845
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 3: amalgamation of pre existing belief systems, including some of the

846
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 3: new spiritual movement stuff that he encountered in the past,

847
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 3: notably Hinduism and Buddhism.

848
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it goes heavy on the karma here about you

849
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 2: don't you don't want karma to build up, and there's

850
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 2: specific things you need to do to make sure you

851
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 2: don't have karma. And if you get too much of

852
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 2: the karma, you can you can come back and you

853
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 2: will be reborn. But there are consequences for you know,

854
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 2: certain ways of living, certain actions you take, and all

855
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 2: that stuff. So there is like a it's got built

856
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 2: into it a system of punishment and a way of life.

857
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 3: And as you said, that all important guideline right, the

858
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 3: metaphysical milestones, the instructions for a well lived life that

859
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 3: you should treat as an investment in your spiritual future.

860
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 3: And look just like a lot of other movements of

861
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 3: its type, A is a work in progress, and similar

862
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 3: to the belief systems of David Koresh or Charles Manson,

863
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 3: it evolves over time and it takes a more pessimistic

864
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:46,919
Speaker 3: path as time continues. So later later, the leader will

865
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 3: begin to incorporate aspects of apocalyptic prophecies from Christianity for

866
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 3: just one example. And he's pulling from a lot of

867
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 3: stuff as well as ancient Indian spiritual traditions. But at

868
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 3: this point, it's nineteen eighties, right. He knows he's onto something.

869
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 2: He's positivity. It's the supreme truth stuff, you know.

870
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, let me help you help yourself, you know

871
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 3: what I mean. I'm going to teach you how to fish.

872
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,280
Speaker 3: And so he expands the brand name. It's nineteen eighty seven.

873
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 3: This is where he starts calling it not ULM Spiritual Academy,

874
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 3: not the original name, but um Shinrikyo. And he legally

875
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 3: at this point changes his own name, his personal name,

876
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 3: to Shoko Asahara. And he is so strategic, he's very smart.

877
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 3: He is strategic and targeting followers. He's not going to

878
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 3: turn away you know, some outcasts, someone of low's social importance,

879
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 3: who didn't go to the right school or what have you.

880
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 3: But similar to scientology, he and the AUM members are

881
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 3: targeting and prioritizing highly educated followers. They want computer programmers,

882
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 3: they want the wiz kids, the scientists they love people

883
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 3: who are in the police, the military, or high LFE

884
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 3: levels of government expertise, social pool positions of authority and influence. Matt,

885
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,760
Speaker 3: would you agree that's kind of how Scientology is operated?

886
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 2: What they would? I don't know what you're talking about, man.

887
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 2: We talked about that, you know, pretty extensively with former

888
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 2: leaders of Scientology about their practices there. But we I

889
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 2: would just say there's a strategic aim at those folks

890
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 2: as specialists, as people have influence, but also aiming at

891
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 2: young people who are either headed in that trajectory to become,

892
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 2: you know, members of the society, but then almost plucking

893
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 2: them out or at least being making the organization be

894
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 2: extremely attractive to those younger people in institutions, especially to

895
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 2: get them to come over and begin to believe in

896
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 2: kind of his stuff and specifically in him as a

897
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 2: leader and as a spiritual symbol, almost so that once

898
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 2: those younger folks get to where they're going in their careers,

899
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 2: sometimes leaving their careers to just join up and bring

900
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 2: in what they've learned thus far, other times staying where

901
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 2: they are in that world and still being a follower.

902
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 3: Right again, totally legal in all of these professions. Right,

903
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 3: you can perhaps join the national diet hypothetically right, the

904
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 3: legislative body, and you can still be a member of all.

905
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 3: This is not a bad thing, you know. It would

906
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 3: actually be kind of weird and undemocratic to persecute you

907
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 3: or your harmless spiritual beliefs. But you nailed it there, Matt,

908
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 3: because it's very much what osaharas offering at this point

909
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 3: is a message similar to Timothy Leary back in the

910
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 3: mid nineteen sixties. Turn on, tune in, drop out, right,

911
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 3: follow me to a greater truth. People are digging it.

912
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 3: By nineteen eighty nine, AM is in its halcyon days.

913
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 3: It has grown to the point where the Japanese government

914
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 3: officially co sides it. They recognize the movement as a

915
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 3: religious organization. This is a huge win and still not

916
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 3: particularly unique. It's just now considered legitimate, as are thousands

917
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 3: of other similar movements, and AM system is evolving, Asahara's

918
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 3: understanding of his role is likewise evolving. He always was

919
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 3: kind of a teacher and a mentor, right, and he

920
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 3: was helping people help themselves. But by the time OLM

921
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 3: gains official recognition, he started getting his followers to call

922
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 3: him some nicknames in addition to his newly claimed his

923
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 3: legally changed name. He likes it when they call him

924
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 3: things like Savior of the country, the Holy Pope, or

925
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 3: a personal favorite of ours, Tokyo's Christ.

926
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, Tokyo's christ. I think this is a good

927
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:11,359
Speaker 2: time to insert just the fact that this gentleman took

928
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 2: a little trip pretty far away from where he lives,

929
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 2: a journey to go and see the Dalai Lama and

930
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 2: made a big deal about taking pictures with himself because

931
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 2: he got a meeting with the I think it was

932
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 2: the fourteenth Dalai Lama, and having those images, the pictures

933
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 2: of himself as a spiritual leader with the Dali Lama,

934
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 2: who is often an accepted spiritual leader, especially for if

935
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 2: you've got a group that's basing itself on Buddhism and

936
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 2: Hinduism and some of these other beliefs. It's a really

937
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 2: great picture to have because it's almost as though this

938
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 2: major accepted spiritual leader is accepting him by just being

939
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 2: in his presence and meeting with him. And I'm just

940
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 2: imagining him operating that in some way that we don't

941
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 2: even really fully understand, but with his.

942
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 4: Followers one hundred percent. Yeah, you're right.

943
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 3: For another similar comparison, think of it like, if you're

944
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 3: an up and coming musician or an MC, one of

945
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 3: the biggest things you can do for your own credibility

946
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 3: is to have material that associates you with an established

947
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 3: source or another established force in your pursuit. Right, So

948
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 3: he's by associating himself with the Dalai Lama, he's also

949
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 3: kind of through cognitive osmosis, appearing to be like the

950
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 3: Dalai Lama.

951
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

952
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 3: That being said, don't take any pictures with ya. Just

953
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 3: pass up pictures of Kanye West. I'm glad we skipped

954
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 3: on that one.

955
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 2: But but if you know, if Killer Mike is in

956
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 2: a good mood, definitely get one with him.

957
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, if Mike's if Mike's in town, yeah,

958
00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 3: just if Mike's downtown.

959
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 4: Second.

960
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 3: So this is important because all of this, his followers

961
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 3: are super on board with this. They're very rarely disillusioned.

962
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 3: At this point, more and more people are joining, and

963
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 3: as they join, we see the emergence of an inner hierarchy.

964
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 3: There are senior members, there is an inner circle. There

965
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 3: are therefore more and more strict rules for the rank

966
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:29,479
Speaker 3: and file. You're eschewing most of your material possessions because

967
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 3: they're preventing you from attaining your spiritual goals. You cut

968
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 3: ties with your friends and your family, not violently, you

969
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 3: just ghost them or you give them a letter and

970
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 3: you say, hey, we're on different paths. You know, good hustle,

971
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 3: Thanks mom, set And.

972
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 2: There's a documentary from Endeavor that talks with a specific

973
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 2: follower that describes that exact thing that, again we've described

974
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 2: with almost every breakaway spiritual group that we've ever covered

975
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 2: on this show, that gradual, eventual split from everybody, and

976
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 2: you have to do it in order to live the

977
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 2: way that your leaders want you to live.

978
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 3: And there's nothing wrong with having a chosen family, of course,

979
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 3: and there are people who have to go no contact

980
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 3: with their family members and their loved ones for any

981
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 3: number of reasons. To be clear, that is not what

982
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 3: is happening here. These families are not necessarily evil people,

983
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 3: nor abusive, neglectful, or any of that. They are just

984
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 3: a contradicting source of information for al Sahara and for

985
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 3: alm And so he sets up a new center on

986
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 3: the slopes of Mount Fuji in nineteen ninety and his

987
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 3: followers are practicing living life under his direction strict rules

988
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 3: of that we described a couple of them. These are

989
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 3: all the hits if you're starting a cult. What you

990
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 3: can or cannot read, what you can or cannot eat,

991
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:58,919
Speaker 3: who you can or cannot speak with, and what to believe? Right,

992
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 3: And it's all in pursuit of saving your.

993
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 2: Soul and the souls of everyone else who's there with you.

994
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 2: We're all saving each other together.

995
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 3: You must proselytize this is not a pyramid scheme, right

996
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 3: there just happens to be one guy at the top.

997
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 3: But you know, think of it as a reverse funnel,

998
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 3: as they say on Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Right you.

999
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 4: Remember that one?

1000
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1001
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 4: What was that revigron guy?

1002
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 2: I can't remember remember the image of Think of it

1003
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 2: as a reverse funnel.

1004
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 3: Right Asahara is a global phenomenon.

1005
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 4: Now he is.

1006
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 3: This will be familiar to some of us in the crowd,

1007
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 3: but some of us who are a little bit younger

1008
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:45,840
Speaker 3: may not have clocked this. This guy is Tory, He's

1009
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 3: in lectures. He knows the Dadley Lama say his supporters.

1010
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 3: He also, I know this is mentally fascinating to both

1011
01:01:53,360 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 3: of us. He also creates this amazingly effective publishing and

1012
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 3: propaganda initiative. Think of Jack Chick tracks spelled Jack c

1013
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:11,439
Speaker 3: Chick tracks here in the West. If you haven't read them,

1014
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 3: you're in for a treat. Think of that Times ten,

1015
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 3: sort of like how Tokyo is New York Times in

1016
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 3: order of magnitude, Right, Matt, Can we talk about the

1017
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 3: books the literature. I love the cartoons, honestly.

1018
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, the cartoons are amazing. It be okay. So one

1019
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 2: of the things we do know about this leader is

1020
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 2: that as a kid, he loves comic books in comic

1021
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 2: style like graphic novel writing, manga and all that stuff.

1022
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 2: He just the concept of it. He loved it. He's

1023
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 2: a big fan. And what he did, he and his followers,

1024
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 2: they turned him into a superhero of sorts, like a

1025
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 2: religious superhero. In some of these cartoons and stuff, wearing

1026
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 2: you know, the ones that I've seen, at least in clips,

1027
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 2: are him wearing his it's almost a purplely row like outfit.

1028
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 2: And he's just he's very soft in his movements and

1029
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 2: very smooth, and just very contemplative and quiet in his demeanor,

1030
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 2: but happy, and he just he shines on screen with

1031
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 2: these things as somebody you would be interested in, you know,

1032
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 2: as a character. You might go, oh, what's that character's name,

1033
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 2: or what's that superheroes?

1034
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 4: What are his powers? Yeah? What are his attributes?

1035
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 3: Right? What is the message here? People are captivated and

1036
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 3: it's doing something very clever format wise. It is meeting

1037
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 3: people where they're at right, that is, that is a

1038
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 3: key for all initiatives of this sort, good or bad, right,

1039
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 3: ethical or unethical, evil or noble. He is getting so

1040
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 3: much attention from this, and I love the point about

1041
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 3: how the followers are in intructed to the followers are

1042
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 3: instructed to transmit these messages. So it was not uncommon

1043
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 3: for family members to be trying to contact their loved

1044
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 3: ones and then receive some literature in reply. Like I

1045
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 3: saw this, I thought of you, let's talk again. I

1046
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 3: can't wait to hear what you think about this?

1047
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh yeah, because it's controlling. I was gonna say,

1048
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 2: just thought control. What is the phrasing you use for

1049
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 2: that been shaping the context in which you can have

1050
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 2: conversations like the open to the window, That's what it is.

1051
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 2: That's what it becomes to where if you're going to

1052
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 2: even contact your family, it's going to be about this thing.

1053
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:50,440
Speaker 3: And I hope it's okay to say this on the air.

1054
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 3: I think it's an important note. Our guest producer Gnomes

1055
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 3: just pointed out a second ago that Koresh, who we

1056
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 3: mentioned previously, is a little bit different from Osahara in

1057
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 3: a way that I think means Osahara operationally fumbled. I

1058
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 3: know that sounds evil. I'm not saying either of these

1059
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:14,640
Speaker 3: are good guys. I'm just saying operationally, Gnomes, we think

1060
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 3: you made a good point about how Osahara kind of

1061
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:19,080
Speaker 3: fumbled the back. Can you tell us about it?

1062
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just Koresh was very open. So David Koresh

1063
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:27,160
Speaker 5: obviously not a good guy. I would never say that

1064
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 5: David Koresh is a good guy. He was. In fact,

1065
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:34,959
Speaker 5: I had a file. However, he really like the whole

1066
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 5: thing was like I don't want to separate you from

1067
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:40,360
Speaker 5: your family. I want your family to come and join us,

1068
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 5: and you're going to come and live on this compound

1069
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 5: with us, and we're all going to be a family.

1070
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 5: So he's like inviting people to bring their families. He's

1071
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 5: getting people to bring their families from the UK and Australia,

1072
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 5: like all across the ocean to come live in Waco,

1073
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 5: Texas on a weird compound. The coveat is that he

1074
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:02,760
Speaker 5: will marry your daughter and also maybe your wife, and

1075
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 5: he'll probably have a child with both of them. And

1076
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 5: and you know what, that's a big coveyat.

1077
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 2: Was that in the pitch? Gnomes? Do you think that

1078
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 2: was in the pitch to the husbands?

1079
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 5: And so, like, I just I have to imagine that

1080
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 5: they the pitch was Listen, this is how it has

1081
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 5: to happen. I am, however, the new prophet. So when

1082
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 5: you want me to impregnate your wife, that's going to

1083
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:31,440
Speaker 5: make her even more special. Did I feel like how

1084
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 5: that was pitched?

1085
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,800
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, we'll do the sunk cost fallacy and

1086
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:36,919
Speaker 3: wait till they get there.

1087
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.

1088
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 5: Surprise.

1089
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1090
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 3: By the way, first off, welcome, how is the flight?

1091
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 4: Also? Also, yeah, this happened.

1092
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 3: This reminds me of something we discussed with the Brides

1093
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 3: of Christ cult back in Oregon, way way back in

1094
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 3: the day, wherein their cold leader, a German dude who

1095
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 3: was pulling people from his former colleagues in the Salvation Army,

1096
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 3: he convinced these families temporarily to allow that kind of

1097
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:17,000
Speaker 3: sexual and reproductive control, with the idea being that he,

1098
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 3: as a holy figure, had to sleep with as many

1099
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:24,439
Speaker 3: female cult members as possible because eventually one of those

1100
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 3: children from those interactions would be the return of Christ.

1101
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:32,280
Speaker 3: And then later he said, oh wait, fake out, psych

1102
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 3: I'm Jesus, which happens often similar Corge a little bit.

1103
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 5: I don't know it just like a lot of Jesus

1104
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:46,080
Speaker 5: is floating around. It's really hard to tell which one's

1105
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:48,520
Speaker 5: the real one, you know, easy to get.

1106
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 3: Infused, so think critically. The last note on this one.

1107
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 3: It reminds me of that old anecdote I know we

1108
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 3: mentioned on the show before, but about those three guys

1109
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:02,880
Speaker 3: who all claimed that they were Jesus Christ in an asylum,

1110
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 3: and they got some doctor who must have just been

1111
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 3: having a weird day, put them all at a room

1112
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 3: together and said, you can't come out until you figure

1113
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 3: that until you guys solve this. So they're in like

1114
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:21,879
Speaker 3: a real Jesus escape room, and according to the story,

1115
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 3: they eventually say.

1116
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 4: Okay, it's all copa setic.

1117
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 3: We agreed, so let us out, and then they the

1118
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 3: doctor lets them out and interviews them one on one.

1119
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:37,679
Speaker 3: Oh there it is, Yeah, and they each privately say, well,

1120
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 3: you know, those other two guys are very troubled, and

1121
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 3: as Jesus Christ, I wanted to, you know, do my

1122
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 3: best for the flock. So I just agreed to whatever,

1123
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:51,760
Speaker 3: and we all said yes, I left, and I hope

1124
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 3: this is a good message for you, doctor.

1125
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:59,080
Speaker 2: It's about acceptance, love, oh man, all the good things.

1126
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 4: Ooh, hold the phone.

1127
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 3: The story is taking a turn thanks to the magic

1128
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:11,160
Speaker 3: and poetry of editing and nonlinear time. We're not exactly

1129
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:15,519
Speaker 3: sure where this story is going to break, but we

1130
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:18,720
Speaker 3: all agreed as a team that this needs to be

1131
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 3: a two parter, so stay tuned later in the week

1132
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 3: for part two of the terrifying story of am Shinrikyo.

1133
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 3: In the meantime, we hope this finds well. We hope

1134
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,880
Speaker 3: that you were safe. We're so grateful for our guest

1135
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 3: super producer Gnomes. Shout out to you, Nomes, and we

1136
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 3: want to hear your thoughts at this point, especially if

1137
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 3: you have been involved in something that you did not

1138
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:48,759
Speaker 3: realize until much later was a cultic organization. Find us online,

1139
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:53,080
Speaker 3: Conspiracy Stuff, conspiracy Stuff Show, wherever you tag a little

1140
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:55,719
Speaker 3: at sign on stuff when you're sipping the social meets.

1141
01:09:56,120 --> 01:09:57,960
Speaker 3: You can also give us a good old fashion email

1142
01:09:58,080 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 3: or call us on a telephonic device.

1143
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 2: You can definitely call us and in between before you

1144
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:05,920
Speaker 2: call us. If you want to hear more of gnomes work,

1145
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:10,519
Speaker 2: why not check out Monster BTK. It's freaking fantastic. They

1146
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:13,760
Speaker 2: did a ton of the work. Amazing. Hey, you can

1147
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:16,040
Speaker 2: call her number. It is one eight three three s

1148
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 2: T d W y t K. It's a phone number,

1149
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:21,720
Speaker 2: it's a voicemail. You've got three minutes. Give yourself a

1150
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:23,280
Speaker 2: cool nickname and let us know if we can use

1151
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:25,639
Speaker 2: your name and message on the air. If you want

1152
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 2: to send us an email. We are the.

1153
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 3: Entities the read each piece of correspondence we receive. Be

1154
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:34,719
Speaker 3: well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void writes back.

1155
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:36,759
Speaker 4: Pro tip if.

1156
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 3: You are interested in very specific things, you can right

1157
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:45,560
Speaker 3: now visit Alith dot t O A L E P

1158
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:49,080
Speaker 3: H dot t O. Tell us what you think and

1159
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 3: then tell us about the cults in your name of

1160
01:10:51,160 --> 01:11:12,879
Speaker 3: the Global Woods Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1161
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want you to Know is a production

1162
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:19,760
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app.

1163
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 2: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.