WEBVTT - Part One: John Wayne: A Dude Who Sucked 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:07.800 Uh, it is, once again, behind the Bastards, the only podcast, 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:12.600 which is why you're listening. You have no other choice. Um. 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:16.760 All other podcasts have been banned by the new regime, 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.079 which is why I'm here to talk with my guest today, 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:28.160 Francesca Fiorentini. Francesco, how are we doing? Um, I'm good, 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.760 I'm very very good. There is another podcast, Robert. Oh, 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:35.159 it's the only other one that is allowed by the 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:38.400 new regime, and that is mine. That's right, that's right. 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:40.760 I remember that coming in the bulletin from the State 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.360 Security Service. Yeah, yeah, you want you want to plug 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.720 your podcast even though there's only two. Yeah, but they're yeah. 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:48.680 I mean, you know, once you get tired of b 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.199 t B you go over to t b R the 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:58.000 Bituation Room podcast and uh yeah, Situation Room. What what 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:00.680 blessings that the regime has showered upon us that we 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.240 get a podcast like the Bituation Room to choose to 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:06.920 watch or listen to, because you can watch it too. 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.160 It's not just an audio podcast, No, it is a 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:14.480 great blessing upon YouTube and twitch. Now, Francesco, how are 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:18.480 you doing today? I don't know. I'm scared, already scared 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:20.440 because we got a three partner and you said, oh 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:22.080 my god, is this going to be about like Hitler 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.479 or someone And no, Francesco, we're talking about someone much 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:36.680 worse than Hitler. Much today are bastard is John Wayne. 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:39.959 I was like going to go with Attila the Han. 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:44.440 But hell yeah, Wayne, I think that's fair to say 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.040 John Wayne was responsible for more Vietnamese deaths than Attila 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:51.520 the Hun or Hitler. That that's probably fair to say 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:56.360 less deaths elsewhere. Like, but you know, so what do 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.440 you know? What do you know about Mr J Dubs, 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:05.920 John Lane, Francesca Um Spaghetti Westerns or whatever those are, right, 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:07.760 he was definitely a lot of why I'm not an 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:09.720 expert enough on western because those were the ones that 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:11.800 were like filled in filmed in Italy, right, we keep 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:15.359 coming back to Italy. I think that's why they're spaghetti, yes, 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:19.760 which is racist, by the way, super racist. I mean 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:24.119 now that, yeah, we have other foods exactly, why can't 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:29.600 it be a ravioli Western Western? Why not a one 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:31.799 of those with the fish dishes that they cook on 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:34.720 the coast. You know, we got stuff. To be totally 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:37.400 honest with you, I've never seen a single John Wayne 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:41.280 film However, the thing that I know about him, and 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.239 the thing that I repeat on some sort of snoopes 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:48.839 whatever bs that I'm on or like, is is that 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:53.200 he when he died, had something like fifty pounds of 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:58.120 meat removed from his gut. That there was like an 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:04.480 undigested amount of beef in his bottles, probably because the 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.480 man ate a tremendous quantity of meat. But but I 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.280 think that's that's more of a uh an apocryphal tale. 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:14.240 But like, the thing about John Wayne that's interesting is 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.079 that he's whether or not you've seen any of his movies, 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:20.520 and I think today a lot of most people probably 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.600 haven't or at least haven't seen many. Maybe you've caught, like, um, 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:27.560 True Grit, the Original True Grit, or something like The Shootiest, 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.679 So there's a couple of movies that are still in circulation. 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.360 For the most part, He's just like a meme that 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:38.040 has implanted itself in the background of our cultural consciousness. 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.840 He is this kind of like ideal of hyper masculinity, 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.240 of like white Christian masculinity that's still very pervasive in 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:49.320 US culture. Um, And that's kind of who John Wayne is, 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.760 and that matters more at this point than what he 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.880 actually did in any of his films because and it's 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:57.280 interesting because we have a lot of there's a lot 0:03:57.320 --> 0:03:59.360 of other stars in that era, like Gary Cooper or 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.960 whatever that we're huge in their day, and now a 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:05.400 lot of most people on the street aren't. Couldn't really 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:07.600 think of anything about them. You know, maybe you've heard 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:09.640 the name Gary Cooper, but could you pick him out 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.880 of a lineup? Not unless you're really into old films. 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.360 But if you see John Wayne's face somewhere, most people 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:17.120 are gonna be like, oh, yeah, that's that's sucking John 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:20.080 Wayne right, Like he's just he's just an icon of 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.240 American manhood. You know. He also has like sort of 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:30.000 a he's got a classic asshole face, like just very 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.120 punchable and or you're gonna get punched when you see 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.440 that face. Yeah, he's got this. He was this. He 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.280 was this kind of stereoty, not even stereotypically, because the 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:42.080 stereotype exists because of him. But he will talk about 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.839 this later. He didn't really get famous until he was 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:48.960 like a middle aged, surly looking motherfucker um and a 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:52.000 lot of his fame came from that. You know that 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:54.280 that's part of why he remains so popular with like 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.760 dads and grandpa's for forever is he was this this 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:00.520 kind of ARCon of the old guy who will beat 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:03.800 your ass, which they all want to believe they are. Um, 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.839 you know, he's just like us. Yeah, it's like you know, 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:10.040 nowadays we get our movies like you know, the Equalizer 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.040 from a few years back with Denzel You always want 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:13.640 every couple of years have a movie with like a 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:15.560 sixty year old man who beats the ship out of 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.640 a bunch of twenty year olds. Um. Clinton Eastwood used 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:22.120 to do these. John Wayne was like the motherfucking the 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:27.080 Jesus Christ of that and and all later middle aged 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.560 actors who beat up twenty year olds or his apostles. 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:33.040 But you know, we're getting ahead of ourselves here. Um. 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:36.080 The thing that he had a very long career, and 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.880 it was primarily, as you said, cowboy movies that made 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:41.240 him famous and in fact, as Charles Silver of the 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.560 Museum of Modern Art observed, Wayne made westerns for twice 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:46.680 as long as it took to fight the Indian Wars. 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.280 He made westerns for about as long as it actually 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:52.560 took to settle the continent west of the Missouri so 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.120 for an idea like this period, He's part of why 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.039 this Western period is still so like central to the 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:02.039 American ideals or I like idea, particularly the right wing 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:05.960 idea of how this country was quote unquote founded. And 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.200 it's because he was in movies romanticizing that period for 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:15.560 longer than it was ever real, which is neat yes, um, 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.560 but always showed like the Native American perspective, right, Oh 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:21.240 for sure. No, that was one of the things they 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.680 were famous of. That's why one of his chief co 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:27.359 stars ironized Cody was absolutely a real Indigenous person and 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:31.880 not an Italian pretending to be Native American. Hey, I'll 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.200 have none of that in this three part no anti 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:41.680 Italian slander. M hmm. Whatever roles we want, that's right, 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:46.560 I mean we sure did, We absolutely did. I will 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:49.240 I will say that there's there's gonna be a couple 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:52.159 of cases of white dudes playing whatever the fuck roles 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:55.080 they want in these episodes. So this is the thing 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:59.400 that sort of indoctrinated our parents into the idea that 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:03.920 like you know, manifest destiny and that bullshit idea was 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:08.000 always right, always justified. Because like for us, I feel 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:09.600 like when I grew up it was more just like 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:14.320 you watched Schoolhouse Rocks and there was a song called 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.560 elbow Room, which was basically this explanation of like the 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:19.920 like the settling of the West and the colonization of 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:21.920 the West. That was just like we just needed more 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.640 room albow room, And I was like, what the fuck? 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.800 Still again, very very very rose colored glasses. Yeah, that's 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.960 like the sanitized version of the story that John Wayne 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.480 told UM. And and that like was kind of being 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.640 told through his body, Um, which is a big part 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:41.280 of the role he has here. So this is gonna 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:44.000 be an interesting bastard. Now. That said, when we're talking 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.760 about the things that are terrible that resulted from John Wayne, 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.520 we are talking big picture stuff like how what his 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.920 image has done. But as a person, don't worry. He 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:57.480 was really unpleasant. So we'll get plenty of stories of 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:00.320 a dude being shitty and old timey hall e would 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.920 and I you know, no one was ever quite as 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.840 good at being shitty as dudes in old timey Hollywood. 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:09.720 It was really like it was like the renaissance for 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:13.120 being an asshole in America. Like you you, you just 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:19.000 can't hit those heights anymore. Um, as much as Harvey tried. Ye. 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:20.960 As much as Harvey tried, he was never but a 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:27.880 pale imitation of his of his ancestors. Um. So Yeah, 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:31.680 one of the things that's interesting about John Wayne is that, 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.160 you know, he's he's the image of manhood that he 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.000 crafted in his films has proved to be so durable that, like, 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:40.920 if you go to gun shows and kind of like 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.280 big right wing events today, you'll see his face all 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.800 over ships still, um, because that ideal hasn't really changed 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.480 in any way since his death. Now, the story of 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:51.800 John Wayne is more than anything, the story of American 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:55.040 Christian masculinity, which he embodied. So for the first I'm 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.840 gonna talk a little bit about that history. For the 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.440 first hundred and thirty or so years of the United 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:03.679 States as a nation, Uh, most men in the country 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:05.800 made their living one way or the other through hard 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.600 physical labor. We're talking, of course, about men who were free, 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.959 although men who were enslaved also made their existed through 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.960 hard physical labor. Pretty Much everybody was like working physically, 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.560 like doing something that was difficult. Either they're farming, or 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.080 they're in a factory, or they're shooting people who were 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.440 standing where they wanted to build a farm or a factory, um, 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.560 and so masculinity, like you didn't have to be super 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.800 performative about your masculinity. Then it was pretty simple. You 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.000 worked hard. Ideally you made enough money to start a 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:36.440 small business. That was kind of like the goal for 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.360 every man wanting to take care of his family. Broadly speaking, 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:41.920 if you were white, if you were a white dude, 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:43.520 if you were not a white dude, then you you 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.240 just worked without pay for that guy, and you were 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.360 like in masculine Like the other side of my relatives 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:52.560 were Chinese, so you know, building the railroads, like what 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:57.160 a feminine activity. Well, yeah, that's exactly that's exactly right. 0:09:57.200 --> 0:09:59.719 And again we are talking because John Wayne is the 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:03.000 the avatar of white Christian manhood, right, we're not we're 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:06.120 talking about masculinity in a narrow context, but in the 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.480 one that is sort of societally dominant in the United 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:15.120 States because you know, I've heard of this white Christian masculinity. Yeah, yeah, 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.760 he helped invent it. So by the turn of the 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:21.120 twentieth century, things had started to change rapidly. For one thing, 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:24.240 the frontier didn't exist anymore. You know, white people had 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:26.280 made it all the way across. There was no longer 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:30.040 these kind of open spaces on the map, so to speak. 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:35.280 The economy was increasingly dominated by consumer goods, and now 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.960 most people were working jobs that didn't require them to 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.319 go out and farm in the middle of nowhere or 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.839 cut down trees or you know, get into gunfights. They 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.320 were living in cities, they were working in offices. Uh, 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.880 toughness didn't really matter as much as like being able 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:52.760 to sit in an office for the right amount of 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.960 hours while you slowly went mad from syphilis. So this 0:10:56.120 --> 0:11:00.960 creates kind of like a a psychological uh, what's the word, 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:05.280 I'm looking for emergency for American white men, right, like 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:07.480 the fact that all this change is suddenly they're like, well, 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.720 what am I? How? What am I supposed to be doing? 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:15.040 This doesn't feel right? And I'm man still yeah, And 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.080 and rather than being like, maybe we are in the 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.079 process of building a system that is like an anti 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:23.320 human nightmare that forces people to labor in little boxes 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:26.960 for like pitdling, and like everything everything that we have 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.240 been working towards is horribly wrong, and we need to 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:33.679 go back to a much earlier period in our development 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.559 of what a society should be in your lifestyle an 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:40.880 easier lifestyle, Robert, it is. It's a lot lazier for 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:42.760 for at least, well, I mean in some ways. But 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.960 like also rather than you know, as many people kind 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.160 of living a rural life and working on farms, a 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:51.760 lot of them are like in coal mines choking to death, 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:56.000 which is worse than farming. True. True, A lot of 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.200 these guys are trying to figure out, like what does 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.200 it mean to be a man anymore? Now that you know, 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:05.360 we're in the modern era. Um. And while white men 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.520 are kind of feeling increasingly domesticated by this office workship, 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.240 immigration from Eastern Europe is starting to search. And so 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:16.200 also there's all this racism against like you know, Italians 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.640 and Slabs and and folks who were like not yet 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:23.920 quite white, um in the eyes of the people who 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:27.920 are at the time definitely quite white. So all of 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.000 this stuff is making men feel like edged in. You know, 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.600 we've got these immigrants coming in to take our jobs. 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:36.600 Our jobs aren't that great anyway. Uh. And then suddenly 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.000 women start asking for a lot of wild things, like 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:44.959 the right to vote in bicycles. Bicycles, it's gonna only 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.960 if you ride them. Side saddle. The moral panic over 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.200 bicycles is still one of my favorite little history Jim's 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:56.920 they were so scared of bicycles, we should bring that back, well, 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.760 you know, because it breaks the hymen. Yeah, I mean 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.240 we kind of half that America has never gotten over 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:04.840 its hatred of bicycles. Now we just build trucks big 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.240 enough to crush them. You know, when you I was like, 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:09.680 you know, when you're like twelve, you do you are like, yeah, 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:11.560 but like riding a bike could like break your time. 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:13.920 And there's a lot of weird Like I read it 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.000 in Cosmo or like Why I Am, which was an 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:23.600 old girl's magazine. Um about like the sanctity of anyway. 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.840 We don't have to get into it. I mean I 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.360 don't know because that was not a part of my education. 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:32.200 On the bicycle, well, suffice to say, I still don't 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.320 know how to ride a bicycle, so oh it's I 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.360 don't trust Well, Um, I think people were meant to 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.200 travel on two feet or four wheels and nothing in between, 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:45.520 so you're not missing anything. Devil machines. Yeah, I'm I'm 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.920 on board with white people in the early nineteen hundreds, 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.280 with the hatred of bicycles. Mine's just not a hatred 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:57.720 of bicycles for sexist reasons. I just don't think they're natural. Okay, 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:01.520 So basically the walls are when of the walls not 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:07.160 been closing in on the perception of white Christian masculinity 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:12.360 like basically forever and let me just a quick check 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.160 in with a with a white man um, although not 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.680 in that time. But Robert, are you okay? Are you 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:22.520 guys honestly? Well, actually no, because everything is bad, but 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.800 not for that reason. Everything's bad because of these people 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:31.320 and their continual needs to preserve their power relations relative 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:36.240 to everyone else. Like this idea of like white whiteness, uh, 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:40.880 and this this patriarchal kind of white Christian society. People 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:43.160 come up with it over the course of a century 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.680 or two and then have this kind of brief golden 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.320 era where they feel like it's not at threat for 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.600 like five years, and then up until the present day 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:57.000 are actively trying to kill the entire planet in order 0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:00.200 to maintain it, even though they've been winning for so 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:05.360 for forever. Um. Basically, it's safe to say that this 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.880 is a moment like if you were to actually pinpoint 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.760 when America was quote unquote great in the minds of 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:17.120 a lot of these Trumpers. Is that the John Wayne era. Yeah, 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:18.600 that's I mean, that's a little later than where we 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.600 are right now. But yeah, it's like the nineteen thirties 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:25.640 through the nineteen like sixties, early sixties before like the 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:28.000 Vietnam protest ship really got out of hand, and then 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:31.040 we're in a hippie spitt and rambos face. That's right, 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.880 that's right. Um so, yeah, and again like that that's 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.720 the golden era that are white Christian nationalists look back to. 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:43.120 The white Christian nationalists in like nineteen hundred, the eighteen nineties, 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.600 nineteen hundred, they're looking back at like thirty years earlier too, 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.320 or fifty years earlier too, for a period that barely 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:54.200 ever existed. Um So, white Christian men are feeling emasculated 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.520 by modernity and they start grappling for a new totem 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:00.600 of manhood, like someone to kind of hang their images 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:06.920 of masculinity on. And they find Teddy Roosevelt. Now not 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.040 a bad pick, although kind of a surprising one given 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:13.360 his background. In the book Jesus and John Wayne, Kristen 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.560 Cobbs Dumez writes, as a young man Roosevelt had been 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.920 ridiculed for his high voice, tight pants, and fancy clothing, 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:22.640 and to write it as a weakling and a punkin lily. 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:26.520 But Roosevelt wanted power. Determined to reinvent himself, he went West, 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.800 rechristening himself the Cowboy of the Dakotas it was on 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.360 the frontier that a new masculinity would be forged, a 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.120 place where white men brought order to savagery, where men 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.520 served as armed protectors and providers, where violence achieved a 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.600 greater good. If the Wild West could mold the exquisite Mr. 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:45.080 Roosevelt into a rugged masculine specimen, perhaps it could do 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:47.760 the same for American manhood generally. So the think he 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:51.240 went or just shave your mustache, bro, No, they're never 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.040 gonna do that. That's that mustache is how they keep 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:58.440 you know, the Mexicans away or whatever. Can we just 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:03.720 go back to punk in lily? Right, there's a pumpkin lily. 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.080 It's not just a pup old West insult, Like what 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.160 happens a lily grows on top of a pumpkin? As 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.760 when you gotta cut that pumpkin down before it grows 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:14.440 a lily? Yeah, you don't want to grow. That's why 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:18.720 we don't have pumpkins, because then we have lilies, which 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:20.960 came first a pumpkin of the lily. Think it's just 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.320 because it's fragile and pretty, and he was a fragile, 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:27.160 pretty boy by the standards of the time. So even 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.679 as Roosevelt is kind of like out in the Dakota's 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.560 doing outdoor ship and getting getting big and strong, uh, 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.680 the fact that they're like the idea of a West 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.159 at all is like starting to end um And so again, 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.639 like this is he Roosevelt who kind of comes into 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:47.200 prominence as this modern era is beginning, is a product 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.520 of the era before, and everything that's kind of held 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:52.879 up as an ideal about him as masculine is the 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:54.960 thing that's no longer possible for a lot of men 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.919 to do. So one of the things Roosevelt's trying to 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.080 figure out as he starts to become a prominent figure, 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:02.880 and one of the things a lot of white dudes 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:04.800 are trying to figure out is where are we going 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:10.640 to make more hard white men you know? Next? Yeah, well, yeah, exactly, 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.560 that's exactly what they're talking about. And Teddy decides, you know, 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.360 who would be good to have a war with Spain. Um. 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.000 And in fairness, it's a pretty good time to have 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:22.360 a war with Spain. They don't do good in this war, Uh, 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.160 it doesn't. It does not go well for Spain as 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:27.320 wars go. That the U. S has gotten involved in 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.919 pretty pretty easy fight, not for like a lot of 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.560 people in the Philippines, but for the US as a nation. 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:37.600 It goes a lot better than for example, Vietnam. Um. 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.359 So Teddy when the war happens, and he's like a 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:43.439 huge backer. We're we'll talk about the Spanish American more 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.240 and more and more detail one of these days. But 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:47.760 he's a part of why we get into it. And 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.439 he volunteers to lead a cavalry union when it starts, 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:52.520 and he actually fights in Cuba. He does a bunch 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:54.639 of he has his charge up San Juan Hill. He 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.880 gets in all of the newspapers. He's this big national hero, 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:01.760 Teddy Roosevelt, the brave Imperial war leader, and all of 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:06.040 these kind of soldiers who fight with him and become 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:11.800 construct their own masculinity on the battlefields of Cuba, you know. Um, 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:14.800 and under the guise of like, hey, we want to 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:18.280 pillage that island over there. Well, and they blew up 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.439 our boat. They blew up our boat. We got a 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:24.199 pillage that island and also several others got it. Yeah, 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.440 I forgot about that boat. Yeah, there's that boat that 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.480 blows up. Um. Sometimes it's you know, with the nine 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:35.080 eleven of the late eighteen hundreds, that one boat exploded. 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:39.280 I've I have forgotten as we will nine eleven one day. 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:44.879 So Teddy Roosevelt, Uh, you know we this goes good 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:48.200 for everybody. And uh, it's so popular going to war 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:51.200 with Spain. Teddy Roosevelt's partner that in nineteen o one 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:56.520 he gets selected president. Um, and he's he's an interesting 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.680 guy as president. Obviously a big part of him there's 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.280 an element that's very Trumpian because he has to show 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.320 himself as this ultra potent and tough man and and 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:09.119 he's gotta like kind of he's he's constantly sort of 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:13.520 showing himself as this like outdoorsy, rough writing son of 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:16.000 a bitch. But also a lot of that's true about 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:20.280 Teddy Roosevelt, to his like credit, Unlike Trump, the potency 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:23.840 stuff isn't entirely constructed. He is a dude who spends 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.720 a lot of time outdoors. He famously gets shot once 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.040 while giving a speech and just like keeps right on 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:34.359 doing the thing. Um, So he's not you can see 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:36.919 why people latch onto this dude, um. And some of 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:38.879 the ship he does as president is pretty dope. He 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:43.200 establishes the National park system, um, although that's also tied 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:45.639 into white supremacy, because a big part of the idea 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:47.760 of national parks, in this idea of the wilderness that 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:52.400 Roosevelt establishes, is these very white attitudes towards wildlife recreation, 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.399 which are rooted in somewhat mythic ideas of wild and 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:58.400 untamed lance, which, of course we're not wild or untamed 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:02.240 and had been in most case is heavily heavily influenced 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:05.040 and basically gardened by indigenous people who have to be 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:08.760 excised from the topic because these lands can't have indigenous 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:10.400 people on them, they have to stay empty so white 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:14.080 folks can hike in them, right, right, So there's problematic aspects, 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:17.399 even though there's also positive aspects of the National Park System, 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:20.000 which is that we didn't turn all of those parks 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:24.040 and the factors. Yeah, I mean, I I just love 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:26.720 the images from Yellowstone from like the fifties when it's 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:31.320 just like families feeding entire picnic baskets, like actual picnic 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:36.879 baskets too. They're feeding picnic baskets to bears and they're like, 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.320 I wonder why the bears are getting so up etty 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.760 and crazy. Yeah, because you're feeding them twinkies straight up. 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:45.119 I think that's something we I think one of the 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:48.639 big places we went wrong in this country, Francesca is 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:51.120 we got rid of all the apex predators. I think 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:54.160 we should never have made it legal to hunt them um, 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:57.040 and we should always have fed them random food so 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:59.600 they associated humans with food, and then we'd be getting 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:03.760 cold regularly by wolves and bears in the like. It 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:08.879 would be a better like if every week killed cold 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:11.240 yeah yeah, yeah, if like every week in Santa Monica 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.440 family got eaten by a bobcat, you know. Yeah yeah. 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:16.800 I think about how much lower rent would be. It 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:19.000 would be like I got a great deal on an 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:21.639 apartment because this big cat broke in a native family. 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:25.480 I mean, remember Hank the Tank and exactly I think 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:28.440 it was. It was just a couple of weeks ago, Yeah, 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:32.199