1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Hello friends, 2 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: Today I am almost beside myself because our guest is 3 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: a woman who I admire so much that I'm actually 4 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: nervous about how I'm going to manage to talk to her. 5 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: I perhaps have done more prep and taken more notes. 6 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: My laptop screen looks like a beautiful mind because I 7 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: just have so many things I want to pick her 8 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: brain about, and I'm so inspired by her work. She 9 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: is none other than Ava du Vernet. You likely know 10 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: her as an award winning director and writer. Perhaps you 11 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: know her from being on the Time one hundred list 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: of the most influential people in the world, having one 13 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: Best Director at sun Dance and by the way, being 14 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: the first African American woman to do so, being nominated 15 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: for Best Director for the Golden Globes for Selma directing 16 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: a film nominated for Best Picture for Oscar. Also Selma 17 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: directing a film with a budget of over one hundred 18 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: million dollars A wrinkle in time. Her accolades go on 19 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: and on. Her humanity somehow, despite the size of her star, 20 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: precedes her in every room. I am constantly blown away 21 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: by her and inspired by her because she is not 22 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: only an artist and a storyteller, but a teacher. Ava 23 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: is the kind of person who invites everyone in to 24 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: learn more, do more, and imagine more for all of us, 25 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: just by being herself. And her new film, Origin will 26 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: be in theaters on January nineteenth. Origin is based on 27 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: the best selling book cast by Isabel Wilkerson. The book 28 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: is about the unspoken system that has shaped America and 29 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: also the world, the caste system. It chronicles how lives 30 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: to day and historically have been and are defined by 31 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: a hierarchy of human divisions. It is a book that 32 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: is incredibly intellectual, written by one of the most brilliant 33 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: academic minds of our time, and yet Ava managed to 34 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: pull a narrative story out of this five hundred page 35 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: book that is so human and so personal and somehow 36 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: so universal. I really believe you will see yourselves reflected 37 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 1: in it. I think you will be touched and crushed 38 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: and motivated to be more human, more loving, more active 39 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: in your families and communities. And I just I can't 40 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: wait for you all to see this movie, and I 41 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: cannot wait to ask her questions about how she manages 42 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: to take stories like this and bring us all along 43 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: for the journey. So, with no further ado, let's speak 44 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: with Ava du Verne. 45 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: Hello, how are you, friend? Hi? How are you I am? 46 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 2: I'm good. I'm learning me too. I'm learning things. You know, 47 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 2: a lot journey, so I'm embracing the lessons. How are you. 48 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: I Different journeys, but same energy for sure. 49 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 2: Listen, I hear that. 50 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been a season of learning. I was catching 51 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: up with a friend of mine today who is a 52 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: he's a beautiful artist and he's really been in it. 53 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: And I just said, you know, maybe that's the thing. 54 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: When you sign up to learn and you age, the 55 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: lessons get bigger, so they're more complex and more difficult, 56 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: but more profound. 57 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 2: Listen, amen, Amen to that. 58 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you made the most beautiful piece of 59 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: art about exactly this. 60 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 2: Yes, I think you know it's about uh, you know, 61 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 2: it's about embracing the lessons and really seeing them as 62 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 2: experiences that are happening not to you. Why is this 63 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 2: happening to me but for you? Right? 64 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 1: You just gave me full chills. I have this conversation 65 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: one hour ago. 66 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And so as soon as I ever think 67 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 2: that and I heard that from from from my my, 68 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 2: a good friend of mine who used to have a 69 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 2: talk show many years ago. Yeah, she said that to me, 70 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: and it really changed everything for me. And when I 71 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: forget it and I remind myself of it, it immediately 72 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: calms me. This hard thing, this challenging thing, isn't to you. 73 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: It's happening for you, and it makes me stop and 74 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: just changes my perspective. Okay, wait, what's the lesson here? 75 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 2: What am I supposed to take from this? What am 76 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 2: I supposed to do or how am I supposed to be? 77 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: So I'm having to remind my I solve that about 78 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 2: a lot lately. 79 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: So wow, so full transparency. I just had that conversation. 80 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: Tuesday mornings, I do therapy and then I record the podcast, 81 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: and I was having this conversation with my therapist about 82 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: how so many people I know are in this big 83 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: season of transition and transformation that is coming with lessons. 84 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 1: And then I said, and it's it's not lost on 85 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: me that when you really get into it and you 86 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: pull the thread, you realize everything's connected, right, And then 87 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: I started talking about your movie and I was sobbing 88 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: on zoom with my therapist. I was like and then 89 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 1: she made this movie and she managed to get the 90 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: whole book in the movie, and it's really intense, and 91 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: I was just weeping, and I was like, I haven't 92 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: stopped crying since I watched it. And I think about 93 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 1: the way, since I became aware of your work, I 94 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: have been so moved by your work and by you 95 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: as a person. 96 00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 2: You are. 97 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: You are so such a powerful presence and such a 98 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: kind soul. You will take the time to, you know, 99 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: respond to an Instagram note you advocate in this way 100 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: that is so true. You are an artist and a 101 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 1: writer and a director and a storyteller and a change 102 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: maker and a justice seeker, and you invite other people 103 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: to seek with you. And it's something that I realize 104 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: in these seasons of transition, I really want to take 105 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: the time to stay out loud and just say thank 106 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: you for thank you. 107 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: I received that thank you. I feel your words fla 108 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 2: very much. Thank you. I drink it in and and yeah, 109 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 2: you know, it makes me sad when I hear that, 110 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: because I wonder, and I hear it quite a bit. 111 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: I'm just people saying gosh you thank you for replying 112 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: to me, or thank you to people. Don't reply, do 113 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 2: you like is this not happening? People are not I 114 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 2: think people are experiencing a lack of response, a lack 115 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 2: of kindness, and a lack of connectivity. And so when 116 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 2: you a small gestures sometimes mean so much, and you've 117 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 2: gone through the day thirsty for even someone to look 118 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 2: you in the eye acknowledge it, you know what I mean, 119 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 2: and that that there's that that kind of absence of connection. 120 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 2: And so but for me, it's it's it's harder to 121 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 2: ignore people than it is to just lean in and 122 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 2: you see something. Why would you not say I like it? 123 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 2: If someone comes into your head. My mother always taught me, 124 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 2: if someone comes in your head, called them, that someone 125 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 2: comes into your head, texts them they're there for a reason, 126 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like follow your feelings. And 127 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: I think for me, it's more effort to cut it off. 128 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: And I think our industry, you know, our industry, and 129 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 2: and then and this life in general, work and all 130 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 2: the things that society tells us we should think about. 131 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 2: There's just a way from listening to Hey, if that 132 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 2: person came to your hit or if you thought about that, 133 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 2: that's follow it. Yeah, don't follow the world. Follow what's 134 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 2: in here, and and so I find when I do that, 135 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 2: I'm much I'm much more happy. 136 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: That's beautiful. I think it's also a nice reminder to 137 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: hear you say that because so many people. I've had 138 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: this conversation with a lot of folks on this show 139 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: and in life, and I know I suffer from this 140 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: a little bit. I never want to bother anybody. 141 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 2: I know me too, you know. 142 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: I think we can get really cultured into I don't 143 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: want to be in the way I And what that is, 144 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: I think is the it's the sort of action of 145 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: imposter syndrome a little bit. Well, I'll be a little 146 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 1: annoying if I do this, or maybe I'll be bothering somebody. 147 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: They're probably so busy, And what can happen is when 148 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: everyone assumes you're busy, nobody bothers you. 149 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 2: That's true. 150 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: And so to take the time to do that and 151 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 1: to remind people that you should follow those sort of 152 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: instincts or those moments of you know, energetic motivation, that yeah, 153 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: that's going to help people. 154 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 2: I think I like that that term energetic motivation very much. 155 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 2: And I completely hear what you're saying, and I think 156 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 2: the word The word that comes to me is vulnerability. 157 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: You know, I don't want to show people that we're vulnerable. 158 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 2: And by asking or by reaching out, you basically say 159 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 2: please answer me, and you have to wait, you know, 160 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 2: and you don't know what that's going to be, and 161 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 2: all those what those feelings will be or what they think, 162 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 2: and it's kind of leaning into vulnerability. For example, right 163 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 2: now in this season of my life, I'm in a 164 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 2: very vulnerable place. The most vulnerable place the artists can 165 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: be and is I always thought, is sharing their work. 166 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 2: So when we were first you know, sharing some are 167 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: or thirteenth there are all these things or even origin 168 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 2: back in the summertime at the big film festival at 169 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,599 Speaker 2: Venice Film Festival in Toronto, that's a vulnerable time in 170 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 2: the audience. Will they like my work? But I'm wrong. 171 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: I had not experienced what is even more vulnerable than that, 172 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 2: And that's right now with what's going on with the 173 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 2: film and needing to ask people for help because film 174 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 2: is not reaching. It doesn't have the money, it doesn't 175 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 2: have a big marketing campaign, it doesn't have a big 176 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 2: studio behind it. You're having a problem reaching the people 177 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 2: who I made it for and so I feel very vulnerable. 178 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 2: How do I do this? You know, I've used to 179 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 2: be with big studios and Netflix and Warner Brothers and 180 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: Disney and all of that, Like what do I do? 181 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 2: You have to ask people for help? And I'm telling you, Sophia, 182 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 2: I am struggling with picking up the phone and asking 183 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 2: people who I know can help. Yes, I can't even 184 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 2: bring myself omals gonna cry. I can't even bring myself 185 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 2: to pick up the phone and say I need help. 186 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 2: And so maybe about three days ago, my great brother 187 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 2: and friend, David o'yelowell, he uh, he said, my sister, 188 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:07,719 Speaker 2: I'm going to pray for you, because you need to 189 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 2: lift this up. You know too many people, and you've 190 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 2: got to tell them what's going on, and you need 191 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: to ask for help. And I guess what happened. I 192 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 2: asked one or two people. I sent an email. I say, 193 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 2: I'm feeling very vulnerable right now, this is what's going 194 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 2: on with the movie. I need help. I asked two people, 195 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 2: and within three days, fifteen different people who I did 196 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 2: not even know, very famous people. I started to get 197 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: these crazy emails. Hey, I saw your movie. What can 198 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 2: I do to help? Hey, I've got this, Can I 199 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 2: help well? By opening up right to tell the universe 200 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 2: I need help, and to say that full throated yes, 201 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 2: help started to rush in. I can't even believe it, 202 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 2: and so I just say, I just I don't know 203 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 2: who that hits right now. But in whatever way the 204 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 2: fear was blocking off whatever was supposed to come to me, 205 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 2: I was so afraid. I was holding this so tiny. 206 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 2: As soon as I opened up and just said, please 207 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 2: help me, this is what's going on it, you know, 208 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 2: so many beautiful things have rushed in. And maybe it's 209 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 2: because my eyes are open, maybe because I'm open to 210 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 2: receiving it. Who knows. I don't know, but I do 211 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 2: know that something fundamentally changed when I said the words 212 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 2: out loud and when I and when I asked yes. 213 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 1: And isn't it interesting when you acknowledge what you need, 214 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: when you finally, when you really finally tell that that 215 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: deepest root of the root truth, yes, the world goes, oh, 216 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: that's what you need, that's what you want here it is. 217 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's what happened in a way, But 218 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 2: also you change, you hear differently. Maybe help was always 219 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 2: there and I was maybe things happening on the fact 220 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 2: that I wasn't seeing. So there's like a mindfulness there, 221 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 2: you know. I was reading, reading some spiritual spirit to 222 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 2: work this morning, which is just about you know, every 223 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 2: step you take, your take is a sacred step on 224 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 2: this planet. And when you're rushing around in your head 225 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 2: thinking about your grocery list, you're not observing the bird 226 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 2: that disturbed and the butterfly that flew by, or the 227 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 2: person that tried to smile at you, but you didn't 228 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 2: see them and you didn't smile back. And now it's 229 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: too late because they've passed you. And what that's why 230 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 2: I would have done to them, right, And so it's 231 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 2: just like being present, being mindful and and I think, 232 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 2: you know, declaring where you are and knowing where you 233 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: are for being able to say, I am vulnerable right now. 234 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 2: I am scared. My movie is not reaching people that 235 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: I put my whole heart into. I need I need 236 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 2: some help getting the word out and to quiet and 237 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 2: open my eyes to it. I saw people waving, hey, 238 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 2: I'm over here, I can help. I can help. So 239 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 2: who knows how it works, but it works. 240 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 1: It's beautiful. 241 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 2: I invite people to think about it for the for themselves. 242 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors that I really 243 00:13:55,640 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: enjoy and I think you will too. Well when you 244 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: think about that, you know, pulling on that thread and 245 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: seeing how much everything is connected, which is what Isabelle 246 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: Wilkerson does in her book. You You have such a beauty. 247 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: I mean, the entire movie is so beautiful. I don't 248 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: quite have words for it, and I'm a person who 249 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: has a lot of words. The scene where she's explaining 250 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: to her editors what this book is going to be 251 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: and they admit, we don't get it. But if you 252 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: can do it, that's a book, you know. The That's 253 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: something that also really inspired me when when you have 254 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: to sort of admit I may not see it, but 255 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: I want to. Yeah. And the profundity of her book 256 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: carrying us all on this journey to say, the ways 257 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: we're examining the world around us, the ways we're examining 258 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: prejudice and tribalism. It's bigger than we think it is. 259 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: It's bigger than we say it is. It's more insidious. 260 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: It's a shape shifter. 261 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. 262 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: I think about how you read that book and you 263 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: spoke about it in the you know, you did a 264 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: great article with the rap and not at all the 265 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: point of this interview, but my god, that white dress. 266 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: I was like, girl, come on, like you're out here 267 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: speaking so poetically about the human condition, and also just 268 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: like leaving not a crumb on the plate. I was like, 269 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: this woman, I love her. But you talk in the 270 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: article about how you read the book and it was 271 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: so big you had to go back and read it again, 272 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: and then you started to formulate this movie. And again 273 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: it just speaks to the thing that as a fan 274 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: of yours, I'm so impressed by and always drawn towards 275 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: what it appears, at least from the outside and to 276 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: be is your inquisitiveness and your desire to really follow 277 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: things to the sort of origin of the path the 278 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: road when you think about your story, because everybody who's 279 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: at home listening is like, hey Va du Verne, the director, 280 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: the award winning filmmaker, she's so incredible. I can't wait 281 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: to hear what she has to say. Do you pull 282 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: the thread of your inquisitiveness and your desire to tell 283 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: story all the way back in hindsight when you look 284 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: at yourself, through your life, through your childhood, were you 285 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: were you sure you were destined to be a director 286 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: when you were eight years old? Or was that an 287 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: evolution for you, a calling or an evolution or maybe 288 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: a mix of both. 289 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 2: Yes, no, thank you for the observations. I didn't pick 290 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 2: up a camera until I was thirty two years old. 291 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 2: So at the age of eight, nine, eighteen, twenty twenty one, 292 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 2: you know, twenty seven, I had no idea i'd be 293 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 2: a filmmaker. Isn't that wild? You couldn't have told me 294 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 2: fifteen years ago that I would be working professionally as 295 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: a filmmaker. There was no thought in my mind elementary school, 296 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: in high school, in college, after college that one could 297 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 2: make a living. Me, see a filmmaker? What's that? Oh, 298 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 2: Steven Spielberg, he directs movies. That was it. I didn't 299 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 2: even know anyone else who directed. Steven Spilberg and Spike Lee, 300 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 2: those were two names I knew. If you asked me 301 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 2: who directs movies, I couldn't tell you one woman, certainly 302 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 2: not a black woman. I don't even know what that 303 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 2: looks like at that age, and so you know that 304 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 2: that's not even impossibility. I loved movies. I never thought 305 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 2: I could work in an industry that made them. But 306 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 2: then I became a publicist for movies, and I got sets, 307 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 2: and I got to got to meet people who made movies, 308 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 2: and I got to amplify movies and travel with with 309 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 2: with with filmmakers and directors and hear them talk about 310 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 2: their their films like I'm doing right now, and I 311 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,239 Speaker 2: started to say, Wow, this is this is this is 312 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 2: something that people are making with their hands. It looks 313 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 2: like magic when you watch a movie theater or but 314 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 2: it's really like a handmade craft. Everyone just kind of 315 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 2: coming together to do this thing, and isn't that amazing? 316 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 2: And then one day, on one particular set, I said, well, 317 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 2: can I be a part of it? Can't I want 318 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 2: to make it. I want to make something. I have 319 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 2: something to say, and started to make my short own 320 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 2: short films at the age of thirty two thirty three. 321 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 2: You know, I didn't go to film school. I didn't 322 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 2: know anything about cameras. I didn't know how to direct actors. 323 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 2: I didn't know how to block a scene. I didn't 324 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 2: know how to edit. I don't know any of it. 325 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 2: And I just embraced the joy of teaching myself and 326 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 2: learning along the way, and the fact that you cut 327 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 2: to moments like this where I get to talk to 328 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 2: someone like you on the phone about my on the zoom, 329 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 2: about my movie, and that movie will be in theaters 330 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 2: and people will pay money and sit in seats to 331 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 2: see what's in this head. It is. I won't even 332 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 2: say dream because I didn't dream it. It's like a miracle, 333 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 2: you know, that was made just for me, and it's 334 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 2: an honor and a privilege. And uh, it's like magic 335 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 2: to me because it was it was nothing that I 336 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 2: ever imagined, you know, And it was it was, it was. 337 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 2: It is a gift. It was given to me, and 338 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,959 Speaker 2: so I treasure it and I and I don't take 339 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 2: it for granted, and you know, but certainly it was 340 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 2: it was never anything that was that was planned. Now, 341 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: once the magic presented itself, I'm going to work my 342 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 2: butto like, once the miracles here, okay, how do I 343 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 2: how do I take that gift and run with it? 344 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 2: But gosh, I never saw it coming. 345 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and and when you talk about not only 346 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: what you didn't know, but what you didn't see, you know, 347 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: the the lack of women occupying the director's chair, certainly 348 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: women of color occupying the director's chair, You've broken boundary 349 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: after boundary and barrier after barrier, and the I think 350 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: people can forg get when they meet someone like you 351 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: in the Accolade list is as long as it is 352 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: that that there was no roadmap you You drew the 353 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: map while you walked to the terrain. 354 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 2: You know, I followed steps that have been there before, 355 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 2: but women whose names were not amplified. I'm a good point, 356 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,479 Speaker 2: not the first to do these things. I'm the first 357 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 2: that the establishment has said, oh, well, we'll say her name, 358 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 2: But Julie Dash, Nina Barnett's not alls, Casey Lemon's. You know, 359 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 2: Kathleen Collins, you know, Maya Angelou, Debbie Allen. No women 360 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 2: who had done all this stuff before, but never one, 361 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 2: never was nominated, never was the cover of a magazine, 362 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 2: never walked, never did all the all the things that 363 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 2: have been decided that they're going my direction. That's why 364 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 2: when people say first, this first, that you know it's bittersweet. Yes, 365 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 2: I embrace the sweet part of it. Any artist wants 366 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 2: to be acknowledged for the work. But the fact that 367 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 2: it's the first and the film medium is over one 368 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 2: hundred years old. The fact when I'm the first African 369 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,239 Speaker 2: American woman to ever compete in competition at Venice. It's 370 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 2: the oldest film festival in the world. It's twenty twenty three. 371 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 2: That's not a thing to celebrate. I don't think to 372 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 2: say there's been an absence here, there's been an error here. 373 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 2: And by saying first with cheers and collaps, what you're 374 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 2: really expressing is we have not done this before, And 375 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 2: to say it because the work wasn't worthy is untrue. 376 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 2: To say we didn't open our eyes to its worthiness 377 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 2: before is the fact. So you know, to be in 378 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 2: occupy that position, I always like to really make sure 379 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: I'm being clear and sober. We spoke about, you know, 380 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 2: what it really is, and. 381 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: It speaks I think volumes about you sitting in that 382 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: space with this film, because this film is talking about 383 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: the complexity of these systems that often refuse to see, 384 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: acknowledge or uplift the worth of people, the desire in 385 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: some part of the human brain, or these toxic systems 386 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: we've built to other people, yep, and how deep it 387 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: goes and global it is and historical it is. As 388 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: you were reading this book, how did you begin to 389 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 1: wrap your mind around the calling the tug you felt 390 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: to make it into a film to share this in 391 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: a way that more and more people would see it, 392 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: experience it, and understand it to be true. 393 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a beautiful connection between those two. Thank you. 394 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 2: I you know, there's one thing that I know about myself, 395 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 2: and I think it's important for us to be able 396 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 2: to name the things that we do well. You know, 397 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 2: it's hard to be able to do that, especially as women. 398 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,479 Speaker 2: You know, we we don't say I can do this, 399 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 2: I can do this. Well, I'm good at that I 400 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 2: can really do this. You know, I know how to 401 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 2: do this. And one of the things that I've in 402 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 2: trying to kind of own that for myself, to define 403 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 2: and actually count the things I do know how to 404 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 2: do the things I feel confident in, you know what 405 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 2: I mean. I'm good at translation. You know, I'm good 406 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 2: at being able to tell you a story in a 407 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 2: way that might make a complex idea go down a 408 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 2: little easier. You know. I know that I'm good at 409 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: taking a huge, which unruly thing like criminalization and the 410 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 2: prison industrial complex, and I know a way that works 411 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 2: for me to make you feel what that is in 412 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 2: thirteenth and when they see us, and the way for 413 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 2: me is I'm gonna humanize it. I'm gonna take this 414 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 2: huge thing, so big, so big, I can't even understand 415 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 2: all the nuances. It's overwhelming. I don't even want to 416 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,199 Speaker 2: think about it. And I'm gonna bring it all the 417 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 2: way down to one person, and I'm gonna show you 418 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 2: how that thing works with this one person or these 419 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 2: five boys who used to be known as the Central 420 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 2: Park Five and their families. Let's just focus on them, 421 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 2: and once you get to know them and you understand 422 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 2: how what their hopes and dreams were and how it 423 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 2: worked with them, WHOA, Now I feel like I understand 424 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 2: the whole thing. It's the same with Caste. I can't 425 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 2: write a movie about cast I don't know. It's so 426 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 2: big cast How am I going to write a movie 427 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 2: about that. I'm going to write a movie about a 428 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 2: woman on a journey, a woman on an intellectual and 429 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 2: emotional journey. I'm going to show you what she goes 430 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 2: through as she's writing a book about cast and then 431 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 2: you can go read that book. But I'm going to 432 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 2: bring you into the heart of it through one person. 433 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 2: And so that was really my approach to it, and 434 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 2: that's when my approach on Selma I can't tell you 435 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 2: the whole civil rights movement and all the motivations, but 436 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 2: there was this one time that the black folk got 437 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 2: together and say, we want this, and we're going to 438 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 2: march every day until we get across this bridge and 439 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 2: exert our influence and demand our rights. I can bring 440 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 2: it down to that one that one piece, and so 441 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 2: I think, you know, bite sized pieces, you know, humanizing 442 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 2: the moment, humanizing the big issue. Those are things that 443 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 2: I feel like I know how to do. And that's 444 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 2: how I tackled this idea. After I read this book, 445 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 2: I wanted more people to know about it. It was 446 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 2: so big that when I finally decided, oh, I'll just 447 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 2: focus on her telling us what it is, it became 448 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 2: a viable, possible route. And I just followed that. 449 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: It's incredible for people listening at home who have not 450 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: perhaps read the book yet, but who you hope the 451 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: film inspires to do. So, can you can you explain 452 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: for listeners what cast is the overarching connection that you're 453 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: talking about drawing through Isabelle's story. 454 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 2: Yes, now I always preface this by saying I'm not 455 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 2: isabel Wilkerson Junior. I'm a filmmaker. I'm not a scholar. 456 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 2: I'm not an academic. I'm not an intellectual, and I 457 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 2: might get this wrong. I'll tell you what I interpreted 458 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 2: the book to be and what I understand casts to be, 459 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 2: and what I put into this film, guest. Is the 460 00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 2: foundation that all of the rooms in the house sit on. 461 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 2: The rooms in this house, the householl called our society. 462 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 2: One room is racism, one room is sexism, one room 463 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 2: is homophobia, one room is anti Semitism, one room is Islamophobia, 464 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 2: one room ableism, agism, all the isn't. All the rooms 465 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 2: are there, but the rooms sit on top of the 466 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 2: foundation of this house, right, And the foundation that all 467 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 2: sits on top of is called caste because cast is 468 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 2: the very simple to understand idea one kind of person 469 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 2: is better than another kind of person. Now, in this 470 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 2: room it's skin color, and in this room it's age, 471 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 2: and in this room it's gender, and in this room 472 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 2: it's your sexual preference or your room. But they all 473 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,919 Speaker 2: sit on top of a foundation, right, And until you 474 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 2: know that the foundation of all these isn't is the same, right, 475 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 2: and you can't really make your room through the way 476 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 2: that your way through the house, because the other rooms 477 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 2: are dark. But once you understand that they all sit 478 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 2: on top of this of expectation, all the lights in 479 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 2: the house are on. Well you see that this room 480 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 2: leads to this room and these are all connected. Now 481 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 2: the lights in the house are on, I can make 482 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 2: my way through. I can figure out how all this works, 483 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 2: and I can see how they all touch each other 484 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 2: with common walls. Right, And so you know we're in 485 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 2: these silos. Everyone's in their dark room. And I think 486 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 2: Cass turns the lights on and says, wait a minute, 487 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 2: this is all the same. And whether it's happening in 488 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 2: Nazi Germany or whether it's happening today, right, Nazi Germany, 489 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 2: they're burning books today, they're banning books right, whether or 490 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 2: not you're in you're in India and feudal India, or 491 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 2: you're in the United States and you're Trayvon Martin. Underneath 492 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 2: it all, someone is saying you are at the bottom, 493 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 2: and I am at the top. And because I'm at 494 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 2: the top, I will have power and status because you 495 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 2: are at the bottom, based on random traits. And so 496 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 2: I just think that I thought the idea was like 497 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 2: a whoe idea, and I wanted to know about it, 498 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 2: and it's more about it than the book goes into 499 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 2: great detail. It's almost a five hundred page book. It's 500 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 2: a thesis. I know that everyone's not going to read 501 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 2: a five hundred page book, and I know that there 502 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 2: are ideas in here that I might be able to 503 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 2: express down to one person. And so that's what Origin is. 504 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 2: The book is called cast the Origins of our discontents. 505 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 2: An Origin just tries to boil that down through the 506 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 2: journey of this woman. And I hope that people take 507 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 2: from it a new idea about how to organize our 508 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 2: thoughts about our place in the world and everyone around us. 509 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: That's so beautifully put helping people to understand how getting 510 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: obsessed with the rooms can actually be a distraction to 511 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: the truth of the foundation, and how the insidiousness of 512 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: the foundation wants to create every outlet for it, every 513 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: one of those isms to keep people fighting, to keep 514 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: people figuring out. Well, if you, if we could criticize 515 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,479 Speaker 1: you for this, but someone could criticize me for this, 516 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: maybe I should lean into the critique of the other 517 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: over there, so you stop looking at me. We have 518 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: to get to the root of the root. 519 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely, And you know when you think 520 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 2: about you know, if the foundation was broken through, then 521 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 2: everything in the room would fall apart. The room would 522 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 2: fall through the floor. There's nothing there to hold it, right, 523 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 2: Cass holds it all up. So you get to you know, 524 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 2: and and this is not saying, well, there's no sexism 525 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 2: and there's no racism. It's cast That's not what the 526 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 2: what the material is saying. That's not what origin is saying. Anyway, 527 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 2: you're saying these things exist and they sit on top 528 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 2: of this other thing. And as long as you're only 529 00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 2: dealing with the room, as long as you're only dealing 530 00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 2: with the with the wound, and you're not dealing with 531 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 2: the disease, right, then you're never going to be cured, 532 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 2: you know, with the surface issue the symptoms, yes, right, 533 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 2: you know I can. I can. I can have the 534 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 2: flu and take nikul all day and treat the symptoms. 535 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 2: But until I lay down, rest, you know what I mean, 536 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 2: let my body heal, you know, take the appropriate medicines, 537 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 2: push fluids like stop and and and get over that flu. 538 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 2: I'm just I can go three weeks. I've done it before, 539 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 2: go three weeks. I'm just I'm just keeping it going 540 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 2: because I'm treating my symptoms, so I don't I don't sneeze, 541 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 2: and I don't love as much. But the thing is like, 542 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 2: how do you get to the core of what's wrong? 543 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 2: You don't know what's wrong, you can't. 544 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you get under the symptoms into the sickness? 545 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 2: That's right? 546 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: And now for our sponsors correlation that I find fascinating, 547 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: the exam that you're giving, And the greatest privilege I 548 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: think we have as storytellers is when we get to 549 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: take the specific and mirror across the microcosm of one 550 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: character to the macrocosm of us and say, this specific 551 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: is universal. Yes, you've taken You've taken Isabelle's story, her 552 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: specific story about the most universal and harmful you know, big, 553 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: big foundational sickness in human society, and you've made her 554 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: her unique story so specific for everyone. 555 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm glad. I think it's the power of art, 556 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 2: that's the power of storytelling. You know. I remember seeing 557 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 2: Philadelphia when I was in junior high and being so 558 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 2: afraid of HIV as I had no idea what it was. 559 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 2: I just knew I'd heard about it and then you 560 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 2: could get it, and I didn't know when I was 561 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 2: scared and people were sick and people were dying. And 562 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 2: saw that film, and it was a film with two 563 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 2: stars and Denzel Washington, Tom Hanks and this man had 564 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 2: had at aides and and and and and he was 565 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 2: talking about it and sharing and telling the story and 566 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 2: through the story of one person, I came out of 567 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 2: the film and I understood, Oh, I get it. I 568 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,959 Speaker 2: don't have to be afraid of this. It's it's uh, 569 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 2: it's it is. This is happening to people. This is 570 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 2: happening to people just like me. This is how I 571 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 2: care for and I and I and I interact with 572 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 2: people like this, and there's something, there's something worth seeing 573 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 2: it through the eyes of an individual. And that's a 574 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 2: big thing of what CASS talks about is the way 575 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 2: that CASS function is by functions, is by dehumanizing. You know, 576 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 2: if I put all these people into one bucket and 577 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 2: I call them criminals, then they're criminals. So I could 578 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 2: just move forward. But if I meet one and if 579 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 2: I talk to one, and if I know one of 580 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 2: those persons, those people's individual stories, their dreams, their life, 581 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 2: their mom they're you know what I mean, They're there, 582 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 2: They're feelings, then well he deserves a chance, or let's 583 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 2: give her a chance, you know, not everybody, just the 584 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,839 Speaker 2: one that you know. And and that's what we need 585 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 2: to kind of move out of, is this idea of 586 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 2: dehumanizing people by putting them in a big group because 587 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 2: it's easier to disregard them. And now that that big group, 588 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 2: within that big group are individual hearts and minds, right, 589 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 2: individual people with individual stories. That is how cast happens. 590 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 2: You dehumanize a whole group of people. And it's to 591 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 2: say women are flighty, you know, uh, you know, redheads 592 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 2: are so crouchy. They never want to talk about their 593 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 2: red hair, like they're just they're they're they they're just 594 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 2: they're they're they never want to embrace it. Or you know, 595 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 2: people work in the entertainment industry are this way, or 596 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 2: you know those people who live on that side of town, 597 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 2: they're just so stuck up. I hate to go over there, 598 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,879 Speaker 2: or you know what you know, vegans, Oh my god, 599 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 2: it's just annoying, you know what I mean. It's like, yeah, 600 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 2: whatever the group is, and we group them all together 601 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 2: and there's no nuance, there's no humanity. We do it 602 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,879 Speaker 2: every day, Yes, we do it all the time. These 603 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 2: are the things that the film asks us to think about. 604 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: Yes, And in researching some of the places that you 605 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: take us the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin, to the National 606 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:38,839 Speaker 1: Memorial for Peace Injustice in Montgomery, Alabama, the artistry of 607 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 1: a memorial to people that we lost in America, to 608 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: lynching echoing the architecture of this memorial, to the Jews murdered, 609 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: and the Holocaust, both of them, both of them I 610 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: find breath taking experientially because you sink into them. Before 611 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: you know it. You are, you are inside and underneath 612 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 1: and all around you. You're being confronted with these visceral, 613 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: physical manifestations of people who we've lost because of that 614 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,919 Speaker 1: tribalistic instinct to other to want to be superior too. 615 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: And reading about them in preparation for today led me 616 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: to this piece of writing by a man named Primo 617 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: Levy who said, to sync is the easiest of matters. 618 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: He's talking about surviving in Auschwitz, and he said, then 619 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 1: it is enough to carry out all the orders one receives, 620 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: to only eat the ration, to observe the discipline, and 621 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,280 Speaker 1: work the camp. And it's that thing where if people 622 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,800 Speaker 1: are grouped. Suddenly you can go along with whatever harm 623 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: is being done to the group because you feel like, well, 624 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: I'm the one person kind of against this other thing, 625 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: or I'm the one person trying to avoid the harm 626 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: happening to this big group. I don't know that I 627 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: can do anything about all of that. And to constantly 628 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: remind yourself of the humanity of other people is how 629 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: you pierce the veil, you burst the illusion. It's such 630 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: a big conversation to bring to the forefront. It's a 631 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 1: big reminder to give to people in a time where 632 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 1: we feel perhaps more viciously siloed than ever. And maybe 633 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: we feel it because we see it because we're more 634 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: digitally connected than ever. But as you're bringing this incredible 635 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,399 Speaker 1: piece of work to light, you someone that so many 636 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,399 Speaker 1: people at home I imagine, go, well, she's made it, she's 637 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: done it. She can do anything she wants. You've been 638 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: really vulnerable, to use your earlier term about how hard 639 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 1: it was to get this movie made. How For some reason, 640 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: and maybe it's because we're in an ear of I 641 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: don't know, superheroes and fantasy. People didn't want to make 642 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 1: this movie. Funding this movie was difficult. You had to 643 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: tighten it and shoot it in thirty seven days, you know, 644 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: in multiple countries, no less. But you you didn't give 645 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:15,799 Speaker 1: up on it and you made this movie. What what 646 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 1: is that journey like? Is it? Is it something you 647 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: don't let go of because you know the importance of 648 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 1: the work and it feels like a calling. Is it 649 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 1: something you don't let go of because you're like, by damn, 650 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to get this movie made. And anybody who 651 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: told me I can't watch me? Is it a little 652 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:31,760 Speaker 1: bit of both? 653 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, you are such a smarty pants. 654 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 2: I love it you are you are. Thank you. I 655 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,800 Speaker 2: love the rigor and the robust nature of your questions, 656 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 2: and I can hear the research and the preparation, and 657 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 2: it's a it's a pleasure. It's rare. I've been doing 658 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 2: a lot of interviews, okay, So it's such a such 659 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 2: a delight to be in conversation with you. So thank you, 660 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 661 00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: That's really kind. 662 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 2: Yes. And also, you know you're the first person that's 663 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 2: pointed out the monuments in the film. You know there 664 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 2: are three three I meant to make sure that in 665 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 2: the three interlocking spaces or times that we explore, you know, 666 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 2: the American South and segregation, the Holocaust in Germany, and 667 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 2: then the cast system in India. I went to make 668 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 2: sure that we went to a monument, a museum that 669 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 2: represented each in the modern day. We're at the Holocaust 670 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 2: Memorial in Berlin. We were at the Bedcar Museum in Delhi, 671 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,279 Speaker 2: and we were at the National Lyunching Memorial in Montgomery, Alabama. 672 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,360 Speaker 2: And we went all of these spaces. The author in 673 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 2: the film is visiting these actual spaces in her research. 674 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 2: And now one person since September has asked me a 675 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 2: question about it, except you, so thank you, Mari. I 676 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 2: integrated it, but yes, it was. It was a journey 677 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 2: to get this made. We were shooting this time last year. 678 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 2: You know, this is this is. This has been a 679 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,359 Speaker 2: fast turnaround in terms of the film. I wrote it 680 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:13,240 Speaker 2: for two years. We started raising money for it last summer. 681 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 2: We started making it this time last year in January, 682 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 2: and now we're in January and it's coming out. So 683 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 2: if you take out the writing, it's been a year 684 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 2: long process. Now, while that is it's a long time, 685 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 2: it's certainly a drop in the bucket to what it 686 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 2: takes to make most films. So this has been a 687 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:40,760 Speaker 2: very propulsive, very energetic process. It's been full till every 688 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 2: hour of every every waking hour of the day for 689 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 2: a year, and that's been intense. But really, when I 690 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 2: think about it, it's been a swift journey in the 691 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 2: grand scheme of things. And it has been one where 692 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 2: doors have opened and ways have been made that where 693 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 2: it looks like there is no way and there is 694 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 2: no door, And it has taken holding hands with people 695 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 2: who believe in it and believe in the vision. And 696 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 2: because I've done this a few times before, I have 697 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,399 Speaker 2: some tricks of my sleeve as to how to, you know, 698 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 2: keep moving in a certain direction. But I look back 699 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 2: and I think, wow, we did this in a year 700 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 2: and a half, from raising the money to being in 701 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 2: theaters a year and a half, and that is not done. 702 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,919 Speaker 2: And so what that tells me is with the right 703 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 2: intention and with a focus and a mission to be 704 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:50,400 Speaker 2: deliberate and focusing on the things you have instead of 705 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 2: the things you don't have. Right, I don't have a 706 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,560 Speaker 2: studio giving me all the money I need. I don't 707 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 2: have the seventy days that I should have to do this. 708 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 2: I don't have this I don't have that. Okay, I 709 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 2: raised enough money for thirty seven days. Okay, I know 710 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 2: these people who want to help me, and I'm going 711 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 2: to focus on them, not the people who are saying, 712 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 2: don't do it. By focusing what I had instead of not, 713 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,400 Speaker 2: instead of focusing what I don't have, I shifted my 714 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:26,280 Speaker 2: attention and I green light my greenlit myself. And whether 715 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 2: you are making a film where you're doing whatever, green 716 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 2: light yourself, green light yourself, say I'm going I'm doing it. 717 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 2: Watch me, And you don't have to know all the steps, 718 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 2: but you can take one. I take one step, and 719 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 2: then you can figure out the next and the next, 720 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 2: and one day you're going to turn around and there's 721 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,279 Speaker 2: more behind you that's in front of you, and you're 722 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 2: almost there or you're there. And so for me, the 723 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 2: steps it was about a year and a half. But 724 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,240 Speaker 2: every day I took a step, even if I didn't 725 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 2: know which way, or even with if it was just 726 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 2: a little one said I have to do something today 727 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 2: to move this forward. And that's the way we approached it. 728 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 2: And we didn't approach it from a place of lack. 729 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 2: I didn't let the words come out of my mouth 730 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,400 Speaker 2: every day, I don't have this or what's going on? 731 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,040 Speaker 2: And I moved it, We all moved it forward. When 732 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 2: I stopped was about a month and a half or 733 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 2: so ago where I started to say those words, what's 734 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 2: going on? Why aren't people coming in? Why don't want 735 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,239 Speaker 2: people know about the movie? Why can't I get the 736 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,360 Speaker 2: word out on this movie? What? And I started to 737 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 2: get into this vulnerable dark place because I'm using language 738 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:46,120 Speaker 2: and I'm feeling in the lack and over the holidays, 739 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:51,399 Speaker 2: I just I just was was blessed and fortunate enough 740 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 2: to start to come out of that haze and to 741 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,239 Speaker 2: start to change my language and to look at what 742 00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 2: I had. And I'm just telling you the ways in 743 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 2: which we talk to ourselves, that's the life we're living. 744 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 2: You know what I mean. You're either talking to yourself 745 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,600 Speaker 2: in your head all day from a place of lack 746 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:13,839 Speaker 2: and woe is me? And why isn't this and why 747 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:15,840 Speaker 2: didn't this happen? And why is this happening to me? 748 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:18,840 Speaker 2: Or you're paying this is happening for me? This is 749 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 2: what I do have, This is what I am going 750 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 2: to do, this is what's going to happen today. I'm 751 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,480 Speaker 2: going to take a step. And I'm not saying this 752 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,840 Speaker 2: to be preaching. I'm just saying you asked me a questions. 753 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 2: This is my experience, Like I have experienced the dark 754 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 2: side of it, and I've experienced when I look up 755 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 2: and like whoa, I'm moving. I am moving. And so 756 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 2: this film was all about moving and moving forward and 757 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 2: sitting here with you today and just talking about the time. 758 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,440 Speaker 2: I haven't really thought about the time, but like on 759 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 2: this day last year, I was calling action on set, 760 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 2: and now a year later, I'm here talking about the 761 00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:02,719 Speaker 2: movie comes out on the nineteen. That's that's that's that's beautiful. 762 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,839 Speaker 1: It's a yeah. And for people at home, I mean 763 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 1: you said it's it's a quick turnaround and the energy 764 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,520 Speaker 1: behind it and that propulsion. It's about the movie, but 765 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 1: it's also about you. You're talking about these transformative principles, 766 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,920 Speaker 1: and I'm so grateful you're willing to share them because 767 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,839 Speaker 1: someone at home who's listening to us talk today is going, well, shit, 768 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,240 Speaker 1: if Iva du Verne, can you know, hit a hurdle 769 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 1: and figure out how to navigate around it, maybe I 770 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,760 Speaker 1: can too. Maybe I can go make my short, maybe 771 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,000 Speaker 1: I can start that book I've always wanted to write, 772 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 1: maybe maybe I can have this hard conversation with my 773 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,360 Speaker 1: family about something that I know we need to change, 774 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:52,280 Speaker 1: whatever it is professional, personal. The reminder that at every 775 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: stage of your life, no matter what wrong of the 776 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,040 Speaker 1: ladder you've made it up to, you will be tested, 777 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:03,440 Speaker 1: You will have to read examine your commitments, capabilities, creativities, 778 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:10,360 Speaker 1: and that you can always find a workarounds. 779 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:17,719 Speaker 2: That's profound, I hope, so you know, I think, and 780 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:22,160 Speaker 2: the workaround I just want to remind people is the 781 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,719 Speaker 2: steps are small. You get the rebel and the small steps, 782 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 2: you know. So over the holidays, when I was feeling 783 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:36,120 Speaker 2: down about certain things, certain aspects professionally, and I remember something, 784 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:42,040 Speaker 2: my aunt Denise said, clean up. So I looked around 785 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:46,000 Speaker 2: and my environment reflected what was in my head. Whatoes 786 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,840 Speaker 2: were on the chair that I hadn't hung up, you 787 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,040 Speaker 2: know what I mean. My shoes were all off, the 788 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,560 Speaker 2: shelf rowers were open, you know what I mean. Like 789 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:56,879 Speaker 2: I was getting out of it and not making it, 790 00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,280 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And I just looked around. 791 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,400 Speaker 2: It's like, let me just when I say this, because 792 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,640 Speaker 2: it's the small step. If you want all this to happen, 793 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,839 Speaker 2: get yourself together, So I just start to clean up 794 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,319 Speaker 2: my room and hang up the clothes. I can't do 795 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:13,640 Speaker 2: all the things I want to do out in the 796 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:17,440 Speaker 2: world right now. What can I do right now? I'm 797 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,800 Speaker 2: going to clean that closet. I'm going to hang these clothes. 798 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,680 Speaker 2: I'm going to wash these clothes. This is what I 799 00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,399 Speaker 2: can do right now. And guess what. Tomorrow, I'm gonna 800 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,600 Speaker 2: go take a walk, I'm gonna call a friend. I'm 801 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,160 Speaker 2: gonna pull myself out of this. And then the next 802 00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,799 Speaker 2: day I'm gonna make that phone call. And then the 803 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,799 Speaker 2: next day I'm gonna buy those ads. And the next 804 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,480 Speaker 2: day I'm gonna be less bronable and call a friend 805 00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,080 Speaker 2: and say I need help. And the next day I'm 806 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,759 Speaker 2: gonna be with Sophia Bush on a podcast, and the 807 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,959 Speaker 2: next day my movie's coming out, and like and look 808 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,560 Speaker 2: now I'm up and out. I'm out of my bed. 809 00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,799 Speaker 2: Yeah what I mean. But just to tell people, it's 810 00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 2: so it feels so big when you're down or you 811 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 2: feel like you're stuck. Just start small, start with whatever 812 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,280 Speaker 2: you can. You know, there's something to be said for momentum. 813 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:14,080 Speaker 2: You know, get some success today. What can you succeed 814 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:20,799 Speaker 2: at today I hung up my clothes. There are no 815 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,759 Speaker 2: clothes on the chair. The only one that puts closed 816 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,200 Speaker 2: on the chair. Is it just me? Because I know 817 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:26,160 Speaker 2: it's all of us. 818 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:31,760 Speaker 1: Any any chair or bench or we couch in a bedroom, 819 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:33,880 Speaker 1: if you're lucky enough to have room for it just 820 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:35,319 Speaker 1: becomes the place the clothes go. 821 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,319 Speaker 2: That's right, you know, but you know what I mean, 822 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,319 Speaker 2: It's just it's just I think sometimes we talk about 823 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 2: these big things and how you do it, and it's 824 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 2: just good to hear. Just start where you are with 825 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,160 Speaker 2: a small thing and let that propel you to the next. 826 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,359 Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a minute after a few 827 00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:58,799 Speaker 1: words from our favorite sponsors. Did it feel like that? 828 00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,440 Speaker 1: You know, this is the microcosm of your room and 829 00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,360 Speaker 1: how you talk to yourself and you know the words 830 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,600 Speaker 1: you use. It's like why we talk about spelling. You 831 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,480 Speaker 1: cast spells with your words, Like how are you talking 832 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:14,919 Speaker 1: to yourself? How are you feeling yourself? And as a storyteller, 833 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,680 Speaker 1: as that gets out and gets into the big you 834 00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,720 Speaker 1: know macro of these projects that you make, these big 835 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,880 Speaker 1: stories that are the undertaking at the basis of a 836 00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:30,480 Speaker 1: film like this, how do you do the cleanup? How 837 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,880 Speaker 1: do you figure out what the next right thing is 838 00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,200 Speaker 1: in a movie this big? Because this movie is made 839 00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,120 Speaker 1: up of a lot of hard stories to watch. You know, 840 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:43,960 Speaker 1: when you talk about these these monuments, what we get 841 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,239 Speaker 1: to see as viewers of this film and go to 842 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,560 Speaker 1: Berlin with you, and go to Alabama with you, and 843 00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,360 Speaker 1: go to India with you, and see inside of the 844 00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:56,239 Speaker 1: narrative story of Isabel's life and her family. You know, 845 00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,480 Speaker 1: I heard myself. I realized the sound I was hearing 846 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,920 Speaker 1: was the sound of myself gasping when she was standing 847 00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:08,080 Speaker 1: above that window into the ground, looking at all the 848 00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,120 Speaker 1: empty bookshelves to symbolize all the books that were burned 849 00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,480 Speaker 1: in Nazi Germany, and you had to recreate that. You 850 00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:19,200 Speaker 1: had to burn books. You you recreated and brought the 851 00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:24,239 Speaker 1: audience into the belly of slave ships. These are these 852 00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:28,239 Speaker 1: are the most horrific things that we've done to each 853 00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:33,840 Speaker 1: other through the course of humanity. How do you figure 854 00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:37,920 Speaker 1: out like which which is the next right step to? 855 00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,040 Speaker 1: How do you how do you undertake something like that? 856 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,719 Speaker 1: Where do you where do you begin as a as 857 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,680 Speaker 1: a filmmaker, as a director to to lead us that way? 858 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,839 Speaker 2: Thank you for the question. I think you know, for me, 859 00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,640 Speaker 2: I'm not telling stories of trauma. I'm telling stories of triumph. 860 00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,040 Speaker 2: In order to tell a story of triumph, you have 861 00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:01,360 Speaker 2: to overcome something. So I have to show what's being overcome. 862 00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,279 Speaker 2: And I think about, well, how do I show that 863 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,520 Speaker 2: in a way that humanizes it? How do I make 864 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:13,040 Speaker 2: people empathize with this so that they really feel the triumph? 865 00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:18,799 Speaker 2: You know, how do I portray what's being overcome? And 866 00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,440 Speaker 2: that's really what I where I start. So if I 867 00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:26,960 Speaker 2: want to show this brilliant black woman, author, academic, and 868 00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:30,520 Speaker 2: I want to share with you look at what a 869 00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,120 Speaker 2: dream in a mirrorle school she is, I have to 870 00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:37,600 Speaker 2: show maor right, I have to show you why she's 871 00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:39,960 Speaker 2: such a genius and a wonder and what went into that. 872 00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,920 Speaker 2: And I have to show her personal loss, and I 873 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,240 Speaker 2: have to show where she comes from and the idea 874 00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:52,440 Speaker 2: is about her and people like her that make it 875 00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,080 Speaker 2: a lot less likely that she would occupy the space 876 00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,520 Speaker 2: that she occupies. So I try to build it that way. 877 00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:04,399 Speaker 2: You know, you know, if it's Selma, and you know, 878 00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,279 Speaker 2: doctor King is out and he's leading the margins, he's 879 00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,640 Speaker 2: doing and he's doing all the things, he's just a figurehead, 880 00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:14,120 Speaker 2: unless you know that Corretta and the children are home 881 00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:18,440 Speaker 2: missing him, and what he sacrificed to be out on 882 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,440 Speaker 2: the front lines for all people was time with his family. 883 00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,200 Speaker 2: We don't think about that. He's a symbol and he's 884 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:27,000 Speaker 2: up there and he's doing his thing. He's a human 885 00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,080 Speaker 2: being and what that did to him and what that 886 00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,240 Speaker 2: did to her, and what I did to their family, right, 887 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,160 Speaker 2: And so as I'm building stories, I'm always looking at 888 00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:40,520 Speaker 2: making it deeply personal. You know, in this film, you 889 00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:44,160 Speaker 2: follow Trayvon Martin, who, for those that don't know, was 890 00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:50,760 Speaker 2: a boy, a teenager, who was stalked and killed by 891 00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,920 Speaker 2: I don't know, a random citizen who thought that he 892 00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:57,040 Speaker 2: looked suspicious as he walked through the neighborhood and he 893 00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:02,120 Speaker 2: shot him and killed him. I'm going to give you 894 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,000 Speaker 2: some time in the film to get to know him 895 00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,680 Speaker 2: a little bit before that happened, so that he's not 896 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:12,520 Speaker 2: just a statistic that you hear on the news. You 897 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,799 Speaker 2: knew him, and you knew what he was talking about 898 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:16,520 Speaker 2: on the phone, and you knew what he bought from 899 00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,640 Speaker 2: the store, and you knew what his plans were for 900 00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:23,400 Speaker 2: the next day. So now when he's taken from you 901 00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:28,200 Speaker 2: you care. So that's how I try to build the films. 902 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,680 Speaker 2: When you ask how it is, how do I get 903 00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:34,040 Speaker 2: to the personal place, the human place? How do I 904 00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:39,160 Speaker 2: break cast humanize whatever idea and not let you lump 905 00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,480 Speaker 2: everything in, but get down to a place where you're 906 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,000 Speaker 2: on a feeling level. That's really how I approach you 907 00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,319 Speaker 2: as I'm writing and I'm directing, is you know, not 908 00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,960 Speaker 2: to just go for the spectacle, but to try to 909 00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,040 Speaker 2: get to the singularity of an experience, because when you 910 00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,239 Speaker 2: get singular, you really are universal. 911 00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,520 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah. And what strikes me about what you're saying 912 00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,200 Speaker 1: is that you can't be fully human without being fully honest. 913 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:10,240 Speaker 1: And it's not lost on me that we read about 914 00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,400 Speaker 1: the death of Trayvon Martin at the hands of a 915 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:14,399 Speaker 1: man who I shan't name because I don't think he 916 00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:20,359 Speaker 1: deserves the time. But that young boy was taken from 917 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,280 Speaker 1: his family and from all of us in Florida, where 918 00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,959 Speaker 1: we see a governor who, as you referenced earlier, wants 919 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,040 Speaker 1: to ban books, who doesn't want us to read about 920 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,960 Speaker 1: our history. And you see this across the country, and 921 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:39,160 Speaker 1: it strikes me as a form of real insanity because 922 00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:42,600 Speaker 1: it's a denialism of who we are. You know, how 923 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,839 Speaker 1: can you govern a state where you're going to try 924 00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,920 Speaker 1: to stop the teaching of what happened last week? Do 925 00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,080 Speaker 1: you if you're going to ban the books about history, 926 00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:53,520 Speaker 1: do you also stop the newspapers from writing about what's happening? 927 00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:58,000 Speaker 2: Like? How far does it go? It goes to well 928 00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,520 Speaker 2: want us not to learn history, so we don't know 929 00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:06,200 Speaker 2: how far it goes, but where it leads. These are 930 00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:09,440 Speaker 2: the exact same steps that led to the Holocaust. Yes, 931 00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:12,319 Speaker 2: the same steps. I show it to you in the 932 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:18,000 Speaker 2: movie the book before that the camps opened. The thing 933 00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,440 Speaker 2: did is let's take away knowledge, let's take away ideas. 934 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,799 Speaker 2: Let's make people afraid to talk about it. Let's make 935 00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,279 Speaker 2: people afraid to raise their voices. And once we take 936 00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:30,799 Speaker 2: away the knowledge and we make them afraid, and they 937 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,880 Speaker 2: make sure that they don't talk to each other and 938 00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:36,799 Speaker 2: they're not speaking up. Now we can do anything, Yeah, 939 00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:41,080 Speaker 2: do anything. And why would they do it? It's cast. 940 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,239 Speaker 2: The more that they do it, the more power and 941 00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:48,160 Speaker 2: status tilts their way. The way to break cast is 942 00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:51,120 Speaker 2: to set, is to raise your voice, to assert yourself 943 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,640 Speaker 2: as a human being, as an individual right and to 944 00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:59,040 Speaker 2: collectively raise your hands, and the power then tilts back. 945 00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,960 Speaker 2: And we've seen it country. It teeters and it tilts. 946 00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:06,880 Speaker 2: But now it's tilting so far away from justice. The 947 00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:08,719 Speaker 2: fear is that it's going to get so far that 948 00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:12,239 Speaker 2: it's going to take generations to tilt back. We are 949 00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,759 Speaker 2: coming on the We are at the end of a 950 00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:21,560 Speaker 2: glorious period in which every decade gains were made to 951 00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:26,280 Speaker 2: humanize the lives of more kinds of people. Yes, and 952 00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,840 Speaker 2: status and power shifting to a place where it was 953 00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:35,120 Speaker 2: shared by more kinds of people, never fully but tilting 954 00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:39,440 Speaker 2: more in that direction, bending more towards justice, as doctor 955 00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:46,120 Speaker 2: King would say, the arc of justice, bending towards equity building, 956 00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:50,240 Speaker 2: bending towards dignity building, towards an acknowledgment of different kinds 957 00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:55,000 Speaker 2: of people. It's going the other way now, right, And 958 00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:57,359 Speaker 2: the reason why I wanted this film to be out 959 00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:03,319 Speaker 2: this year, this year, so that we can engage one 960 00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:06,080 Speaker 2: another about this in other countries in an election year, 961 00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:08,880 Speaker 2: in a kind of like this, we would be taking 962 00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:12,080 Speaker 2: to the streets every day. There would be no dinner 963 00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,879 Speaker 2: table of conversation that's not about this. But we are fatigued. 964 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:19,520 Speaker 2: We're exhausted. We are spoiled as Americans. We are privileged 965 00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,600 Speaker 2: enough to think that the lives that we enjoy can 966 00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:25,440 Speaker 2: continue in this way. And we don't even see the 967 00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:28,560 Speaker 2: danger up ahead. Why because we're not looking at history. 968 00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,120 Speaker 2: This is what happened already. I'm just trying to wave 969 00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:37,280 Speaker 2: a flag and say, folks, please, please, let's here and 970 00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:40,760 Speaker 2: wake up to what's going on. And so you know, 971 00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:46,280 Speaker 2: the film is an invitation to interrogate our interior lives, right, 972 00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:51,520 Speaker 2: But also by doing that, you cannot stay sheep. You 973 00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:55,600 Speaker 2: cannot stay following by interrogating your tirior lives and asserting 974 00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:59,080 Speaker 2: yourself as a human being, an individual, you cannot allow 975 00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:03,800 Speaker 2: this happen. The more you allow it, the less you 976 00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,400 Speaker 2: are leaning into your humanity. Because this is an in 977 00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:12,360 Speaker 2: you humane time that we're in accepting of the stripping 978 00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,600 Speaker 2: of rights of all kinds of people. In this moment, 979 00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,080 Speaker 2: you and I cannot even decide what we want to 980 00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:22,120 Speaker 2: do with our own bodies, not make that decision legally. 981 00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:26,280 Speaker 2: Right in this moment, there are people who exist in 982 00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:29,800 Speaker 2: different ways, who their way of life, way of thinking 983 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:34,600 Speaker 2: is considered illegal. Those freedoms that we think we enjoy, 984 00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:36,720 Speaker 2: the illusion of that is just going to slip away, 985 00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,880 Speaker 2: slip away more and more. We have a candidate right 986 00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:45,600 Speaker 2: now who is honest, face bold face said out loud, repeatedly, 987 00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,720 Speaker 2: this is what I'm going to do when I'm back 988 00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:52,800 Speaker 2: in power. If you didn't like it last time, I'm 989 00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,000 Speaker 2: just going to tell you exactly what I'm going to 990 00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:57,880 Speaker 2: do this time. Because I'm mad and I'm back. 991 00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:59,640 Speaker 1: And saying this time it'll be worse. 992 00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:05,600 Speaker 2: He's saying it every day, every day, still not listening, 993 00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:11,760 Speaker 2: and so it's just it is. We're going to look 994 00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:13,960 Speaker 2: up and it's going to be too late. Yeah, And 995 00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,960 Speaker 2: that is why I didn't wait for studios, and that 996 00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:21,360 Speaker 2: is why we got this done in a year. It 997 00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,320 Speaker 2: is to say, even if a small group of people 998 00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,919 Speaker 2: see this film and become activated by it, maybe it's 999 00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:31,120 Speaker 2: a spark. Maybe it's a spark that lights a fire 1000 00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,280 Speaker 2: that we need to have roaring at this point. 1001 00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,120 Speaker 1: What I love and thank you. What I love about 1002 00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:40,200 Speaker 1: what you're saying is that in order to triumph, you 1003 00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,800 Speaker 1: have to be honest about where you come from. Yes, 1004 00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,960 Speaker 1: in order to defeat harm, you have to be honest 1005 00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:50,280 Speaker 1: about what harm has looked like. Yes, and you are 1006 00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:54,640 Speaker 1: reminding people that by being willing to explore things honestly, 1007 00:59:54,760 --> 01:00:00,200 Speaker 1: they can be more human. I wept, I'm I mean 1008 01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,640 Speaker 1: ugly cry for the entire second half of the film. 1009 01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,160 Speaker 1: I was exhausted at the end of it in the 1010 01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:11,800 Speaker 1: best way. I felt more human waking up the day 1011 01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:15,919 Speaker 1: after watching your movie, less less exhausted by the state 1012 01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:21,000 Speaker 1: of the world, more inspired to keep going for us, 1013 01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:26,080 Speaker 1: and that I really believe is the power of honest storytelling. 1014 01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,640 Speaker 1: So I want to thank you not only for sharing 1015 01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,120 Speaker 1: it with us, but for sharing the reasoning behind it 1016 01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:33,200 Speaker 1: with us so that we can be reminded of how 1017 01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:34,080 Speaker 1: powerful we are. 1018 01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,840 Speaker 2: There's no better compliment that you can give me, no 1019 01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,800 Speaker 2: better gift, because that is what I hope people get 1020 01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,840 Speaker 2: from it, that they you know, there's a lot being made. 1021 01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:49,200 Speaker 2: I cried in the movie. It has hard stuff. You 1022 01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:53,520 Speaker 2: showed this and this, but you come out feeling the 1023 01:00:53,520 --> 01:01:00,280 Speaker 2: way that you just talked about, come out feeling awake, activated, curious, 1024 01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:05,560 Speaker 2: curious about yourself, about wanting to read, wanting to know 1025 01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:10,280 Speaker 2: more what, Yes, you know. And so that's the hope, 1026 01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,920 Speaker 2: is that it's a spark and you know, yeah, you 1027 01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,800 Speaker 2: got to watch some tough stuff. But the feeling at 1028 01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:20,240 Speaker 2: the end, you know, those are cleansing tears. You're crying, Yes, 1029 01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,120 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Those are clearing away. And 1030 01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:29,440 Speaker 2: I just hope more people embrace it and allow themselves 1031 01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:29,880 Speaker 2: to feel that. 1032 01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,760 Speaker 1: Oh, I believe it. I will go ahead and say 1033 01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:34,480 Speaker 1: to all of our friends at home, who I know, 1034 01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,680 Speaker 1: your souls are beating a little louder as mine are 1035 01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:42,200 Speaker 1: after spending an hour with Ava, I'm excited to see 1036 01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,320 Speaker 1: I always joke or not joke. I guess I uplift 1037 01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:48,720 Speaker 1: that a lot of the people who I've aggregated online 1038 01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,480 Speaker 1: have come in because they want to help. They believe 1039 01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,040 Speaker 1: in helping helpers. I call them all my first responders, 1040 01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:56,760 Speaker 1: and I just can't wait to see how many people 1041 01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,600 Speaker 1: who listen to this show are like out here publicizing 1042 01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:03,840 Speaker 1: this movie. I want to remind everybody at home that you, 1043 01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:06,040 Speaker 1: no matter how big you think your platform is, you 1044 01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:08,920 Speaker 1: have one. If it's five family members or five hundred 1045 01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:13,960 Speaker 1: people or fifty thousand people online, people gravitate to you 1046 01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:17,560 Speaker 1: because they trust you, and I would love for all 1047 01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:19,840 Speaker 1: of you to share about this movie. I obviously want 1048 01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:22,160 Speaker 1: you all to go see this movie. I believe you 1049 01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:24,920 Speaker 1: all will be transformed by this movie. And I know 1050 01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:27,000 Speaker 1: I speak on behalf of myself and all of you 1051 01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:30,080 Speaker 1: when I think the incredible miss to Vernee for taking 1052 01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:31,360 Speaker 1: time to be with us today. 1053 01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:34,960 Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate you. I appreciate this conversation. I'll appreciate 1054 01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,320 Speaker 2: this call to action that you just made. And I'll say, 1055 01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:41,080 Speaker 2: Seat sixteen is a very simple thing. We made it 1056 01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:44,840 Speaker 2: up and for sixteen books, it ad buys a seat 1057 01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,240 Speaker 2: for a young person and they get a one year 1058 01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:49,200 Speaker 2: subscription to masterclass. 1059 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:53,080 Speaker 1: Oh my god, Dreamboat of a Human is just a 1060 01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,040 Speaker 1: way to you know, share it with you know, kids 1061 01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:57,520 Speaker 1: who won't buy the ticket, but they make us something 1062 01:02:57,560 --> 01:02:58,200 Speaker 1: for free. 1063 01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:00,960 Speaker 2: I will never make a dime from this movie. I 1064 01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,520 Speaker 2: haven't even said that anywhere. I did not get paid 1065 01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:07,080 Speaker 2: to make this movie. I put my salary into the movie, right, 1066 01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:09,520 Speaker 2: no amount of money. We have to pay back the 1067 01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:11,440 Speaker 2: people who gave us the money to make the movie. Right, 1068 01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:14,920 Speaker 2: So I'll make money on this movie. It's not about 1069 01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,240 Speaker 2: money for me. It's about this time that we're in 1070 01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:21,960 Speaker 2: the message that the movie shares mission urgent. It's a mission. 1071 01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:26,200 Speaker 2: This is urgent. It's urgent, and I don't want to 1072 01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:27,880 Speaker 2: be able I don't want to look back and say, 1073 01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:30,640 Speaker 2: what did I do? I didn't I didn't do enough. 1074 01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:33,320 Speaker 2: This is what I can do, you know, and everyone 1075 01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:35,080 Speaker 2: has the thing that they can do. If you can 1076 01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:38,520 Speaker 2: cook and figure out how the cooking serves you know, 1077 01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:40,680 Speaker 2: the moment that we're in. And if you, if you, 1078 01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:44,000 Speaker 2: if you've got five family members, if you have well, 1079 01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:48,920 Speaker 2: if you, if you do, do a walkathon, put a 1080 01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:51,440 Speaker 2: new put a couple of books out on your porch 1081 01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:55,440 Speaker 2: for folks, whatever you can do to move us forward 1082 01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:57,800 Speaker 2: in this time a little bit more towards justice and 1083 01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:01,800 Speaker 2: community for all doing this is what I could do. Yes, 1084 01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:04,959 Speaker 2: So what what Sophia's saying? It's not about any kind 1085 01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:08,360 Speaker 2: of there's no corporation getting this money, there's none. It 1086 01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:11,080 Speaker 2: is about how can you amplify the message, and if 1087 01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:14,280 Speaker 2: it's not for this movie, find a way to wake 1088 01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:17,040 Speaker 2: up the people around you and to wake up yourself, 1089 01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:20,320 Speaker 2: you know, find a way to hang the clothes, find 1090 01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:22,760 Speaker 2: a way to clear a path, find a way to 1091 01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:27,920 Speaker 2: be less fatigue and exhausted, so that we can we 1092 01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:30,800 Speaker 2: can bloom, and we can blossom together, because right now 1093 01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:34,560 Speaker 2: we're wilting, but I believe we can. We can shine 1094 01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:37,160 Speaker 2: a light and turn things around. And now's the time. 1095 01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:42,040 Speaker 1: Well here's to the blooming yeah say man, thank you, 1096 01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:43,400 Speaker 1: thank you, my friend,