WEBVTT - Jay Cooper 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.719 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:17.000 My guest today is Jay Cooper. Jay, you called me 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.720 about your old client, Rod Temperton, right, I was writing 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:23.320 about Quincy Jones. Can you tell me more about Rod? 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:28.480 Yes. Rod was originally a member of heat Wave that 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:33.360 I represented, who had a number of major hits and 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:39.760 most of them were written by Rod Temperton. And I 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:43.560 was representing heat Wave, and then Rod, when he left 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:47.279 heat Wave, retained me to continue his representation of him 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.960 as a songwriter. Well, it was a heat Wave. He 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.080 wrote Boogie Knights and Always in Forever a number of 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:59.320 other hits. And then evidently Quincy Jones had heard of 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:04.959 these records and he was doing an album with Michael Jackson, 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:10.920 and he called. I got a hold of Rod. Rod 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:14.400 told me about it, came over here into Los Angeles, 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.000 and Quincy hired him to come here and to do 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:23.000 an album with Michael Jackson. And that album turned out 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:29.040 to be the songs that Rod wrote for it. 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.600 So like back in the day with heat Wave, how'd 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:36.959 you get clients? Were you actively searching or once you 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:38.480 made your name they came to you. 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:44.280 I never actively searched, exactly but they came to be. 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:51.960 They were recommended to be by producer in London whose 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:53.640 name at the moment I don't remember. 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:57.400 Let's go back to the beginning. Did you always plan 0:01:57.560 --> 0:01:59.600 to be an entertainment attorney. 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:04.640 No, I planned to be a musician from the time 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:08.480 I was a little kid. I wanted to be a musician, 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:10.800 That's all I wanted. I studied music from the time 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.799 I was three years old. My father was a musician, 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.560 and I was ready when I finished high school to 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:20.440 go off and to get on the road with a band. 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:24.520 And my parents said, no, no, you My parents were Jewish. 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.000 Of course, that means you have no choice. You have 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:30.240 to go to law school or medical school. So they 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:35.680 introduced me to a lawyer and they said, okay, I'll 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:37.400 go to law school, but I got to find a 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:40.920 music school too, So I founded DePaul University in Chicago, 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:43.360 where I grew up, and I had a music school 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.560 of law school, and it turned out they were in 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.560 the same building, so it was perfect. I did my 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.800 law classes in the morning and my music classes in 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:56.880 the afternoon, and I worked my way through school playing music, 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:00.000 playing with various bands and things like that. The Chicago 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:05.080 area and I finished law school, took the bar exam. 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:07.720 It was three days and day four I left with 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:11.360 the band and ultimately came to California. And I was 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.760 working here in California as a musician for a number 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:19.200 of years, and eventually that's the story I've told a 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:22.600 long time. How I got into law was through drugs. 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:28.120 What this was My music friends were getting busted for 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.880 possession and I was the only one they knew who 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.840 had a law degree, and so they asked me to 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:35.640 see if I could help them out. So I took 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.040 the bar exam and started doing helping them with their 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:43.360 drug cases. And while I was doing drug cases, they said, 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:45.400 can you read this record contract? Can you read this 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:49.600 television contract? Can you read this movie contract? So I 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.520 opened a little office in Beverly Hills, and that's where 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:53.200 I started. 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.480 Okay, so what were this what were you know, marijuana? 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.760 I won't say it's exactly legal, but close to it 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:04.160 in California. What was it like in the fifties. 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:08.960 Well, it was, it was It was not bad. It 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:15.000 was nothing particularly wrong. Musicians many were on marijuana, some 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:20.960 were on hard drugs. Bands used to have like four 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.839 different kinds of musicians and they would have the hard 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:28.840 drug musicians, the marijuana musicians, the drinker musicians, and the 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.120 straits who did nothing. And so when you lost the 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:35.680 trombone player, you had to find somebody. You had to 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:38.320 find somebody who fit in that category with the tron 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:42.520 buempare also a druggie or was he also a drinker 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:49.280 or was he something else? So musicians were not at 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.440 that time, and I don't and I guess since they 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.200 were not. They didn't carry guns, they didn't carry knives, 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:01.640 they weren't violent. They they were more i would say, 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.840 more mellow and interested in their in their careers and 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.320 their their horns than they were in anything else. 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:10.480 Now, you said your father was a musician. Was he 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.680 a full time musician at one time? Yes, he was, 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:15.640 And tell me more about his career. 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.479 He was. He was a marvelous musician. He was in 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:24.440 a very famous band called the Wayne King Orchestra. They 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:27.280 were from the They used to play the Aragon Ballroom 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.680 in Chicago. They had a weekly broadcast from there, and 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.680 he was the lead saxophone player and the singer in 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.040 that and he did that for many years. 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:40.160 Okay. And you started taking music lessons as young. 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:41.919 Age, Yes, they're three years old. 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:43.120 Three years old? 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:44.640 Three years old? 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:46.760 What the piano at three? 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:51.520 No, My father gave me a little soprano saxophone, a 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.080 very small little sopran which I still have to this day. 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.520 And I played it for a year or two till 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:04.640 my teeth fell out. And while I was waiting for 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:08.360 my teeth to grow in, I went to piano, and 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:12.120 then eventually to clarinet, and then back to saxophone, and 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.640 then added flute over the years. 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:16.239 And what instrument did he play? 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.760 He played saxophone, he played saxophone, and he played trumpet, 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:22.239 and he played clarinet. 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:24.320 And do you have any siblings? 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:28.160 I had a sister, yes, And was she older younger? 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.960 She was younger, seven years or five years younger, But 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:33.320 she never was a performer. 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:39.360 Okay, So in this era, in the thirties and forties, 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.760 you're playing your instrument at home? Are you playing out 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.919 with school bands, bands and halls? What's it like? 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:50.120 Well, of course I was in high school. I was 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.760 in the school band, I was in the school orchestra, 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:55.680 I was in the pep band, I was in the 0:06:55.720 --> 0:07:02.120 marching band. I was doing all of that, doing my studies. Uh, 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:06.760 and then uh, forming bands outside. We would play the 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:11.560 local the local park houses and all that. The parks 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:15.880 all had a building where you could have dances and 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.640 things like that. And that's what I was doing, and 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:22.880 that I was playing weddings and playing dances and playing 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:26.760 various things of that nature. Yeah, enough to make a 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:28.160 living to pay my way through school. 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:30.200 And what kind of music were you playing? 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:36.320 Big band type music or big band a lot or 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:41.600 play small bands and weddings? I played Polish weddings, Jewish weddings, 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:46.320 Greek weddings, Italian weddings, played them all. We played the 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.960 polkas at the at the the Polish weddings, we played 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:57.440 seven eight time music. In Greek weddings, we played all 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:03.679 the Jewish music, the Klasberg type of music. Played anything. 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:08.440 And were you playing in multiple acts multiple bands? 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.640 Was there one multiple multiple? I was a free lance musician. 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:13.360 I'll take any call. 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:16.440 Was the union involved at all at that time? 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.200 Yes? I joined. I would remember the union by fifteen. 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:23.000 Yes, now the union is almost irrelevant. But was the 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.960 union in control? Everybody worked were a member of the union. 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.280 Back then, everybody worked through the union because they paid 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:35.800 you had minimum minimum per minimum salaries per gig that 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:40.160 you played, and that's where you got all your jobs. 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:42.679 You went down to the union like on Saturday afternoon 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:45.880 and you hung around and somebody say, hey, we're looking 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.160 for a saxophone player for Saturday night. I'm looking for 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:50.960 this for Sunday night. I'm looking for this. And that's 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:52.040 how you got your jobs. 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:56.559 So you said you graduated from law school, you took 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:58.400 the bar, and then you immediately went on the road. 0:08:58.440 --> 0:08:59.240 Tell me about that. 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:01.960 Yeah, I got it. The first thing was I got 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:06.360 a call from a band called Larry Fhoteen. He was 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.600 an originally he had his own band. He was an 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:13.360 original arranger, I should say, for the Sammy Kay Orchestra. 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:19.200 And we went to New York, worked around, worked the 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:23.000 East coast. We were drove in cars, three or four 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:27.280 separate cars a group of us, and we were working 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:30.200 the west East coast. And then I got a call 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.560 from the band called Henry Bussey band that was a 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.600 big band in the days. Henry Bussy was originally a 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.160 first trumpet player for the Paul Whitebolt Orchestra, and then 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:46.880 he had an orchestra. He was based out of Los Angeles, 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:49.400 and I got a call they lost their elite outdo 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:55.160 player the Midwest. So I was doing a record date 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:58.720 in Cincinnati at that time with the Larry Foteen band, 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.280 and so I called around to see if I get 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:04.600 a sub for me, and I found a sub, and 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:07.280 I called my parents. They drove the sub down to 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:12.760 Cincinnati where I was, and they drove me to where 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.600 I had to meet the band with Henry Bussey band. 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:19.720 And two weeks later that same year, I was in 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.480 California and I said, this is for me. 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.480 So how did this band know of you? 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:33.880 Well, I was recommended by another saxophone player. I guess 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:36.240 he got the call and he didn't want to go out, 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:40.080 and so he recommended me somebody I hadn't met at 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:41.320 Depault at music school. 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.839 So, okay, you're in Los Angeles, then what goes on? 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:50.160 I'm in Los Angeles and now, of course I'm looking 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.720 for work and I did so many people except the band. 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:59.600 I arrived and I used to go down with my 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:03.800 horn to the Musicians Union, which was at eight seventeen 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:07.720 Vine Street in those days. I go there every day 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:10.040 with mount horns to practice because I was living in 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.480 a little apartment in Hollywood and you couldn't practice your 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:17.760 instruments there, so I would walk a mile to a 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:23.080 local forty seven on Vine Street. I practiced my horns, 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:27.079 and then they also had rehearsal rooms there. And then 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.160 one of the bands heard me playing practicing and they said, hey, 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:35.720 we need an alto player. So I joined that band. 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.520 It was a rehearsal band, and you met a lot 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.040 of musicians, with a lot of great musicians there through 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.199 the rehearsal band. Because we used to we used to 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.720 play charts for all the arrangers used to bring in 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:49.079 their charts try them out, and so we got to 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.520 know all the arrangers. I got to know all these musicians, 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.760 and I started getting calls for work and I would 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:58.360 go out with I'd go out with Nat Cole, I'd 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.439 go out with Bobby Darren. I was out with Frank 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:06.720 Sinatra for quite a while. I was out with I 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:08.880 went out with the Less Brown Band. I went out 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:11.640 with the Charlie Charlie Barnett band. I was part of 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:18.960 Baited Ferguson's band, and I did a lot of Latin bands. 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.160 I was playing Latin bands and used to Sunday night 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:26.040 on I had the Palladium Bowroom in La used to 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:31.400 have five six bands doing Latin Night. On Sunday, you'd 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:36.520 have two thousand of latinos dancing. It was incredible and 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.360 sometimes I'd play with four of the five bands. It 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:41.720 was just a great time. There was lots of opportunity. 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:46.440 There was ballrooms everywhere in La. There was jazz clubs, 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:51.360 there was every studio had full symphony orchestras. So you 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.760 had seven full time symphony orchestras in the studios. You 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:59.280 had three networks, they all had full time orchestras. And 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.319 there was clubs everywhere, so there were opportunities to play. 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:06.280 Was enormous. I was became the I was the benefactor 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:10.160 of that, and so the beneficiary I should say. 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:12.000 Once you were in La, did you go on the 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:13.200 road again or did you stay? 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.120 Yes? Yes, I would go out and go out and 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:16.319 come back. Yeah. 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:18.200 So what was it like being on the road in 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:19.960 the fifties as opposted today? 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:22.720 Well, I can't tell you about the road today, but 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:25.200 I can tell you about it then. It was. It 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:29.080 was fine, It was there was rarely any problems of 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.959 any sort. You would go out for three weeks, four weeks, 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.880 five weeks and then come back. You know, Uh, you 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.760 worked in the big ballrooms. There were ballrooms. Every every 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.200 city had ballrooms right either inside the city or on 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:46.160 the outskirts of the city, or and you had theaters 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.640 where they you would play between the movies. You would 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.720 you would be on the stage and the movie theater 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:55.680 played between that. Or the big dance halls. Every every 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:59.400 city had a big dance hall somewhere. And it was 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:03.480 wonderful to keep running into run into other bands. And 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.640 one of the great things was one time I was 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.280 with the Less Brown Band and we were in I 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:16.560 think it was may have been Salt Lake, I'm not 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.400 positive at the moment, but we were in the hotel. 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.560 And of course, when you're on the bus and all that, 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:28.200 you're dressing your jeans, your shirt, you're kind of ragged 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.800 and all that, particularly when you're driving three miles four 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:34.760 hundred miles a day. And we were a bunch of 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.920 us were standing outside when we're at this hotel, and 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.520 here comes the Count Basie band pulling up the stay 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:44.360 of the same hotel. They all got off the bus 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:49.680 in suits and times they looked like they just they 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.440 just were dressed for the case. It was just wonderful 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.560 to see. It was a great time. It was a 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:56.760 great time, Okay. 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.240 The rock and roll musicians wanted to go on the 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:03.520 road to meet the girls, to do drugs. Was it 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:04.640 the same in your era? 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:09.920 No, No, it was, it was I suppose there will 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:13.080 always be some of those. There were certainly a number 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:16.400 of people on hard drugs and things like that. But no, 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:19.680 we were all there for the music. We were there 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:23.840 for the music, not for the girls. Uh. We were 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.640 there for the music, definitely, okay. 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.000 And what was it like being Jewish on the road. 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:33.280 Nothing, You didn't know you were Jewish or anything else. 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.760 And what about when you had toured with black musicians? 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.520 What was that like? Oh, well, you had to be 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.040 you had to be very careful where you would stay. 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:47.240 But there was no there was no no particular, no 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.480 particular problem. The problem with when black musicians at that 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.680 time was they had to live with what they called 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.600 the Green Book, which I'm sure you know about, which 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:57.800 was the list of places where they could stay, where 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.680 they could eat. Uh. And so that was always difficult. 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:06.880 But uh, that was always difficult, probably still difficult to 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:11.720 this day. Other than that, it was generally generally fine. 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.080 We you know, you knew what hotels to stay at 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:18.200 you knew where they were where. It was acceptable to 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:22.560 have musicians and things like that, but generally that time 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.320 there was not a lot of them. There was a 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:30.280 crazy craziness going on with in the bands. It was 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.440 there was pretty pretty normal. People were pretty serious about 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:34.120 what they were doing. 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.320 So what would you and the other band members do 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:39.360 when you were not on stage, when you were on 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.720 the bus or in the hotel room? How would you 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:42.480 pass the time? 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.520 Uh? Well, I always sat in the back of the bus. 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:49.200 The leader always had in the front of the bush. 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.160 The girl singer always had in the front of the bus. 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.720 Uh So everybody had their place where they use They said, 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.640 I like to sit in the back. You read, you read, 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.360 you're looking to see, you talk to you, talk to 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:06.240 your friends. Nothing dramatic, nothing dramatic. 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:10.800 Okay. So from the time that you came to Los 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:14.480 Angeles till you opened your office, how long a period 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:15.119 of time was that? 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:19.400 About three or four years, I guess. 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:22.760 Okay. So in that three or four years, excuse me, 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.280 you were practicing. 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.879 No law, no, not at all whatsoever. 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.639 Okay. So you have these friends, they get into varying 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:36.000 scraps with drugs. You're a newbie lawyer, So how do 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:38.000 you figure out how to defend them? 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:43.560 You do a lot of quick reading. It was it 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.800 was fairly simple. Let me take an example. There was 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.879 a lot of clubs on Sunset Boulevard, amongst other places. 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.560 So I be playing that. There was the Macambo, there 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:57.400 was Ciro's, there was the Crescendo, there was the Interlude. 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.880 There was a number of clubs there, amongst other places, 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.960 of course, all around the city. So let's say we 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:09.879 were working at the Macombo, all the clubs, everything closed 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:11.800 to two in the morning. At two in the morning, 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:16.000 we will be packing up. The cops would be backstage 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.280 and they say to the to the guy, open up 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:23.280 your case. Okay. They opened the cases, so there'd be 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:28.240 some drugs in it. Musicians didn't. It was easy for 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.639 the cops because musicians didn't carry knives, they didn't carry guns, 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:36.760 they didn't resist the rest. They weren't violent. So they 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:41.479 were giving it a rest document and saying you got 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:43.560 the peer in court at such and such a time. 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.560 It was clearly illegal search and seizure. There was a 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:50.680 motion we used to make at that time called nine 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:52.720 nine to five. I don't know what it's called today, 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.600 and we may go down to the court and make 0:18:56.640 --> 0:19:01.680 a motion of illegal search and season probable cause to 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:06.399 accost them, and we walk out the door. And usually 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.400 I'd walk out the door with a contract or motion 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.560 picture contract or a television contract or some kind of 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:15.680 contract to review. And so I studied a lot. 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:21.720 Okay, how long after you started practicing law did you 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:23.680 stop playing music professionally? 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:30.320 Probably another seven eight years something like that. 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.760 Well, really, so, did you think that you were living 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.800 the dream in your music career or was there a 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:39.760 rung above that you were trying to reach. 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:48.480 Well, my rung was to be a studio musician, to play, 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:52.240 to play record and all that. And I was starting 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:56.159 to get a lot of very good work in town. 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:00.000 I was achieving it. And then I was trying to 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:01.800 to do both. I was trying to do the loan, 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:05.160 I was trying to do music. So one day, when 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:08.719 I was driving home, I fell asleep at the wheel. 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:14.280 Fortunately I was not in a bad accident, and I realized, 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:17.600 I have to make a choice. I can't continue to 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:18.119 do both. 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.520 And how hard was it to give up the music? Emotionally? 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:23.680 Very difficult? 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:27.760 And when you stopped, did you continue to play your 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:30.080 horn or did you put it down because it was 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:31.240 too painful to play? 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:34.520 No. I continued to play my horn. I continued to 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:41.680 do things not quite as much, and I would join 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.800 some local My training was, my training was my teachers 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.359 were in Chicago Siphony, so my training, my training was 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:53.919 classical music. So I started to do with local community 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.960 orchestras and things like that, which I continued to do 0:20:57.040 --> 0:20:57.760 for a long time. 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.320 Okay, so you're in Beverly Hills, you have your office. 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.720 What's the legal landscape like that? Are you a party 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:14.640 of one? Are there ten people like you? The big 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:16.879 law firms predate this. What's it like? 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:19.919 Well, I couldn't get a job because I was not 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:22.679 ready to give up my music. I was looking around 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:30.040 for a place. So I was trying to figure out 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:33.800 what to do. And so I got a little space. 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.159 It was an ad in the trades, and I got 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:39.480 a space for services. So I said, okay, I went 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:42.479 to this place on South Beverly Drive in Beverly Hills, 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:45.439 and I got a little office. I would have to 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:48.760 render certain services, like going to court for the attorney 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:51.320 there that I worked for a name with Lou Most 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.200 and he would pay me twenty five dollars a court appearance, 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:57.600 but I would have a little office I can work 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:00.639 out of. He never paid me the twenty five dollars, 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.600 so I lasted for a couple of years and then 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:07.800 left and got another office on my own. In the meantime, 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:10.240 I was continued to work and I started to work 0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:13.440 with the La Philharmonic and I did that for six years. 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:19.040 Along with this, I was doing there playing their saxophone 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:23.000 work and for instance, like pictures that an exhibition with 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:28.200 the symphony, the balo, revels, bleo and things like that 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:32.080 with a saxophone with them. And then for Pop Knights, 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:34.800 I would play saxophone and clarinet for them with them 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:37.600 with the La Philharmonic, I was doing that and that 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:41.560 was terrific. Alongside while I was while I started by 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:44.359 practice of law, and I was doing some record dates 0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:46.679 here and there and things of that nature. So I 0:22:46.720 --> 0:22:49.040 was doing both until it became impossible. 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:53.080 And was there enough work because you were constantly in 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:54.480 contact with people. 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:57.000 Yeah, there was enough work. That was enough work. 0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:01.080 So now you put down your horn profession and you're 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:03.239 one hundred percent of lawyer. What goes on? 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:11.360 Then? Well, okay, so I I had another, a second 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:16.280 little office on my own while I was going along, 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:22.720 and then I had moved to another one. I practiced, 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:26.080 started to get busy, and then I decided I only 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:29.879 wanted to do entertainment law and I didn't want to 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:34.440 do I was doing what they call door law. The 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:39.320 door law is whatever comes in the door. I did divorces, 0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:44.600 I did adoptions, I did taxes, I did personal injury cases. 0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:48.919 I did a zoning case. I did a murder case. 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:53.240 I did a robbery case, and I did I was 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:58.040 doing contract television contracts, mostly picture contracts. So one day 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:01.920 I said, I'm just want to do the entertainment stuff. 0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:05.400 So I hired my first lawyer and I said, you're 0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:09.560 going to do everything I don't want to do. And 0:24:10.080 --> 0:24:16.320 that was Chuck Hurwitz. Eventually became Cooper and Hurwitz, and 0:24:16.880 --> 0:24:22.240